WEBVTT - Rick Wilson & Christopher Mathias 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly john Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.160 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.920 today's best minds, and five year old Liam Ramos and 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.120 his father have been released from an ice detention center. 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:15.800 We have such a great show for you today. 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:19.400 The Lincoln Project's owner Rick Wilson joins us to discuss. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.160 The fallout of the Epstein. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:25.720 Files and what Democrats winning in deep red Texas means. 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:26.960 For their mid term chances. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.000 Then we'll talk to a reporter, Christopher Matteas about his 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.000 new book, To Catch a Fascist, the fight to expose 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:33.760 the radical right. 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:34.840 But first the. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:39.040 News Smiley Keem Jeffries has told Mike Johnson that he 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.919 should not count on DEM's votes to end the government 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:42.919 partial shutdown. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.159 Yeah, so Democrats in leadership get a lot of static 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.640 and some of it is very much deserved. But I 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.240 do think they are deeply trying to tow the line 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:55.920 on all of this. And let me just talk about 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.480 what's happening right now. The Senate basically set it up 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.120 so that the government would shut down over the weekend 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.920 but reopen starting on Monday. 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:06.959 And they did this. 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.920 They passed all of the minibus bills and then they 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:11.120 just did a two week. 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:12.880 Patch on the homeland security. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.640 Why did they do this because most people are pretty 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.320 horrified by what ICE is doing and they want Democrats 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.160 to get something on these, you know, before they write 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:23.840 a blank. 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.559 Check for billions of dollars. What are the things people want? 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.640 Well, a lot of state houses and a lot of 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.040 state legislators are trying to change the rules so that 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.759 if you are abducted by ICE, you can sue them 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.600 if they do something to you. They're trying to sort 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.560 of change the immunity the way the immunity looks. Look, 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.720 this administration likes to lie and say that these border 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.400 patrol agents or ICE has absolute immunity. 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:47.920 They do not. 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:50.240 They have forms of immunity, but they do not have 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.520 absolute immunity. And so, in fact, there is some way 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:56.640 to be made whole. 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:56.880 By some of this. 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:58.840 But the idea here is to make it so that 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:01.800 there's more civil protect so you can sue these people 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.480 if they bash up your car, so you have some 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.800 you know, when you're marched out of your house in 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.240 your bathrobe, when your ninety year old father is marched 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:12.239 out of the house in his bathrobe, that you can 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.440 in fact sue the government. Part of what people want, though, 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:17.680 really is they want them to stop being masks. They 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.720 want accountability, they want you know, checks and balances. We'll 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.280 see if they can get it. This is a two 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.560 week funding patch. But I think what is important here, 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.480 what he Keem is saying is that Mike Johnson may 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.560 not get those Democratic votes, and if he doesn't get 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.000 those Democratic votes, he can't end the shutdown. 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:33.720 This is good. 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.600 What we need democrats in power to do is hold 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.680 Republicans accountable. Historically you haven't been able to do that 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.240 when you don't control the House. But because the margins 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.480 are so small and because Mike Johnson is so incompetent, 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.200 we've really seen Democrats be able to do a lot 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:49.120 more than you would think. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.680 Yeah, and you don't have a Senator like John Fetterman 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:53.880 there to say that ice are good boys who deserve 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:54.600 a pat of the head. 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:55.800 So it could happen. 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.160 Yeah, I mean you have Democrats who vote for shitty crap, 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.399 I mean shared golden Yeah. 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.120 We saw Congressman Tom Swazi face the wrath of his 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:05.840 constituents with it this week, and. 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:07.120 Man, let's see what happens. 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:11.200 So Mammy, Usually if I heard the saying bye Chic. 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.880 I'd think I was watching Austin Powers or something, but 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.320 instead we're in another nightmare of Trump conflicts of interest, 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.840 where the whole economy is being rigged for him to grift. 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.640 This story for the Wall Street Journal is fucking bananas. 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.040 I think it's important to just take a minute here. 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.800 The Wall Street Journal has done some incredible reporting. 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:30.760 I have to bow down as a hater. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.440 Yeah, I know, and you're a hater, and I am 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.960 very conflicted about their ed page. But the reporting they've 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.600 done has been great, and so kudos to them. Remember, 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.640 reporting is expensive. You need lawyers, you need fact checkers. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.120 It's much harder than just like a substack. That's your opinion, 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.680 which is not to say sebstack isn't great. So here's 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:53.080 the deal. Five hundred million dollar investment for forty nine 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.400 percent of world liberty came before the United Arab Emirates 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:01.760 one access to the tightly guarded American AI chips. So 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.000 here's the deal. There's a lot of controversy about selling 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:09.520 these advanced AI chips to countries like China, just selling 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.720 them internationally. Then this spy chic not chic that he 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:18.359 might be Also she bought half of a tightly a 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:23.200 very trumpy owned company which at least thirty one million 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:27.159 dollars of that was slated to flow into entities affiliated 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.560 with the family of Steve Woodcoff. You'll remember Steve Woodcoff 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.400 as being a random rich guy who's friends with Trump, 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.920 who also is negotiating peace in the Middle East as 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.520 one does. This is just like exactly the kind of 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.640 shit that we see. And it's a catocracy, right. This 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.680 is a president who is unchecked, who is unmoored, and 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:53.960 who has basically treated the presidency like piggy bank, like 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.000 just trying to make as much money as humanly possible. 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:58.160 And that's what we're seeing. 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.120 Yeah, and truly this really as you go through this report, 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.400 it just gets uglier, all the implications speaking of very 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:10.760 ugly firing chemical munitions at peaceful protesters, including children, which 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:12.359 I did in Portland this weekend. 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.840 Yeah, so again, these guys are out of control, and 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:19.880 like they think this is good because Trumpers like it. 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.560 They think this is good because they are so online 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.080 that a lot of Steven Miller's people, you know, they're 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.800 in the echo chamber, just like Biden people would always 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:30.080 say Biden was in the echo chamber. 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.920 That's the same thing. So you got Steven Miller goes on. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.080 Twitter like, yeah, it's cool the gas kids, I mean, 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.480 to your gas and then we have situations like this. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.640 The problem for Republicans is like Indies hate this crowd. 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.120 Indie voters, the people you need to win elections, don't 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:51.200 like to see their democracy, to see the government gasing children. 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.400 I can't imagine why they don't like it. It's a mystery. 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:58.880 Yeah, and particularly too, no one wants this in their city. Like, 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.360 no one wants to see people who were just staging 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:05.279 as sit in get chemicals. It's strange city budgets because 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.919 we have to treat people for these things, like it's crazy, 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.159 Like our tax dollars going to this is ridiculous. 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:11.040 Oh yeah. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.200 I mean, first of all, it's a couple things. One 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.760 it's bad for them politically. Two it's expensive. Three it's 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.240 dangerous for It's not what we do in this country. 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.960 Like the First Amendment is the first one. Our freedom 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.000 of speech, our freedom of protest. It's the first cause 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.320 of the First Amendment. I mean, this is not even 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:33.599 like we're talking about some amendment that was added, you know, 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.000 I mean, this is number one. This was the first 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:37.839 thing they said was the right to protest. And that's 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.880 because these people came from a mad king. They had 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.880 lived under a mad British king. The founders, you know, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.000 they wanted to have accountability. They wanted a democracy where 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.800 people could protest things they didn't like, like the Tea Party. 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.360 And so the fact that this administration is so obsessed 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.640 with hurting protesters, I think is like one of the many, 0:06:58.680 --> 0:06:59.719 many red flags. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:00.440 Yeah. 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:06.359 So, speaking of horrible implications of Republican policy, the ACDA 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:10.520 subsidies are set to expire, and right as that happens, 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.040 there's an economic survey where voters site health costs as 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:15.600 the top economic worry for them. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.120 Yeah. So look, well, Donald Trump is busy building a 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:23.440 giant arch, redoing the east wing right so that he 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.320 can have a big, beautiful ballroom that can fit nine 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:30.000 nine nine, one hundred people. God knows why he wants 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:30.520 that number. 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.240 It's not first friend Herman kan to remember him? 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.840 Oh the nine nine nine for Herman Kane. He killed 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:37.400 Herman Kin? 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:39.080 Did hermon Caan di have COVID? 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:39.280 Oh? 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.400 Yeah? At a Trump probay, Yeah. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.360 I remember that from season one two out of three 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.560 American survey at sixty six percent, or worry about paying 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:50.680 for healthcare more than other household necessities which have also 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:55.440 grown up utilities, food and groceries, housing and rent, gasoline, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.360 and transportation. But they can also add to their list 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.320 of worry is getting deported to a country they did 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.600 not come from, even if they're United States citizen. Look, 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:11.560 it's thirty billion dollars to pay to keep these subsidies 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.720 from expiring. Donald Trump is suing the Irs for ten 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.000 billion dollars. So if he can just do that three times, 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.800 he could donate the money to paying for ACA subsidies. 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:23.600 Something to do. 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.560 Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project. In 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.120 the host of the Enemy's List, Rick Wilson, Well. 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:34.640 Junk fast, how are you this fine day? 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:35.200 Oh? 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:36.760 I'm just living the dream. 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:38.320 It is a dream, isn't it. 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.599 So Ebstein files they can only ever released them on 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:43.160 a Friday. 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:45.559 Of course, it's the news dump of all news dumps, 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.080 three million pages. And folks, I mean we've already talked through. 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.559 Everybody's already talked through many of the revelations. There will 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:53.240 be many more. 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.680 Let's talk about what's happened now we have Elon Musk 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:58.680 tweeting through it. 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.640 So we emails that said things like are you going 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:03.760 to have a party? We had it. 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:09.040 The most embarrassing email was Galaine trying to tell Elon 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.400 that they weren't at the place anymore, so he shouldn't 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:12.960 bother comes. 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.040 Somebody said, oh, I bet they turned off the lights 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.160 when his helicopter flew by, right. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.760 I mean it did feel like but he and he 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.560 and it was like an absolute Everything he had said 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:24.959 about Epstein was a lie, just like it. 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.120 Looked, just like Howard Nutlck and all these other people, 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.760 all these thirsty bastards who now are like Jeffrey who 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:35.120 what No. Their emails are like Geezer, may I come 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.600 to your party? May I watch the nude women? May 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:38.640 I have another girl? 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:39.480 Yeah? 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.040 I mean I've been thinking about this a lot. I 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.600 wrote about it over the weekend. This guy was evil, 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.480 and this Department of Justice came out a few months 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.040 ago and said there's nothing there no victims in the 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:55.560 Epstein files. Pam Bondi said those words, there are no 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:57.400 victims in the in the Epstein files. 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:58.040 Oh really? 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.920 He said that Epstein had not trapped to anyone, but himself. 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.440 Yes, that is correct, and that was a gigantic lie. 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.719 Todd Blanch said something on Friday that I thought was 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.440 the most disturbing question. These images include death and sexual abuse. 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.720 So there are three million more files. 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.000 Yeah, that this was bad. 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.280 If this was bad, it'll be the weekend he nukes 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.200 Greenland or something that they released the next three million, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.280 because the the recursive irony of this is they release 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.760 Epstein foul material to take away the fact that they're 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.800 murdering Americans in this street and what's next? How bad 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.200 does it get? Well, look, let me talk about consequences 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.199 though for a minute, because I think, yeah, I think 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:39.480 we've we've seen a. 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.360 Very I just want to pause for one second just 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.960 to go back to that. So Todd Blanche was on 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:50.160 ABC today telling George Stefanoppos the review is over, that 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:54.640 they're not releasing anymore because they have death and violence 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:54.959 in them. 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.400 Three million files with death and violence? Are you fucking 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.480 kidding me? In my mind see a serial killer as 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.360 well as a fucking child trafficker. I mean, it's it's outrageous. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:08.400 Like in a point a special Master do hearings like 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.760 explain the emails which they should have done with this 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:12.400 stuff too. 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:17.599 Go on what has happened here as ironically and bizarrely 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.440 proven that QAnon was right. The world has a power 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.720 elite who are who are degenerate. Some of them are pedophiles. 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.560 They abuse women, they abuse people, they abuse children. But 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.240 those degenerate elites turned out to a lot of being 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:33.160 the Trump administration. 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:34.600 Yeah, a lot. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.240 We're friends of Trump. You see why that You can 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.880 now see why. And I think even the MAGA audience 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.360 and there's a reason they've been kind of muted until 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.520 late Sunday when they started to get their act together 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:48.439 on the pushback, because the indefensible nature of this is 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.920 something they've been called to defend now for years. They've 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.840 built a mythology and a legacy around around this idea 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:56.959 that we're gonna these files are gonna be chock full 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.760 of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and George Soros sacrificing. 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:05.480 And it turns out it's Jeffrey Epstein and this incredible 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.719 circle of powerful people who have faced no accountability for this, 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.720 face no judgment for this, who aren't even shamed, right 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:19.880 Musk Elon Musk, Leon Black, all these Howard Luttene. Kevin 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.000 worsh the new head of the FED. Turns out he's 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.800 in bed with Jeff Well, he's. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.480 At he's at somebody's house in St. 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:27.800 Bar's. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.000 I mean, and you've gotten the reason. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.480 Can I just say one thing about this One of 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.360 the things that I think is unconscionable about how this 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:41.120 stuff was released is that it has totally unproven allegations 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:46.640 next to real emails of Elon and Epstein. So it 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.640 creates a world where you almost question things which you 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.040 know are legit can take correct. 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:53.960 I think some of the most disturbing stuff in here 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.760 is about Steve Bannon. You we have a multi hour 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.360 Steve Bannon media training Jeffrey Epstein's so Jeffreys, you can 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.120 come back into society in some way. We have cozy 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:07.360 emails of Bannon and Epstein talking about how they're going 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.439 to use all these right wing groups that are funded 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.800 by Russia, which we now know from their contemporaries emails 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.400 across Europe to impose this nationalist populism. We've got Epstein 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:21.280 writing that he's going to help putin establish a new 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.840 world economic order that is definitionally by the way of 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:28.160 folks pro Putin and not pro American. You've got the 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.240 deep involvement of the Russians in Epstein's operations. You've got 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:36.240 Ahood Barak, the Israeli for former Prime Minister Ahod Barock, 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:42.440 former Israeli intelligence official. This whole thing shows us that 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.679 this world that they projected of power elites out there 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.559 with no accountability for abuse. 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:51.160 It's true. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.240 What makes me so upset about this whole job is 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.200 that it was meant to be. The administration felt they 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.360 had to do it, and they hoped that there was 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.840 enough part to send stuff to make it a partisan 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.240 food fight, because the truth is a lot of these 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:10.280 people were Democrats originally. I mean, Lutnik invites Epstein to 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:15.640 a fundraiser for Hillary. Correct, this is not a partisan exercise, 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:16.560 and I think that's. 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.040 Most of their credit. The Democrats have been like, oh, 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.160 Bill Clinton's done there, well, he should face the face 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:27.400 the music. Plaskin, Kathy, Kathy Rumler. You know, I think 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.960 some of the most bizarre stuff that we're seeing here 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.560 is this network of people in this loose ban in orbit. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.440 But this nationalist, populist, woke, rejectionist movement, whatever you want 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:40.720 to call it. I don't have a name for it. 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.680 Right now, You've got Nelly Bowles, who is Barry Weiss's 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.920 wife because Epstein got. 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.840 I mean she interviewing Barry Weiss just hired. 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.960 Right, that's worse for you, doctor Peter, who. 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.400 Has over a thousand emails back and forth with Epstein, 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.040 including one that was very disturbing that something like like 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:02.400 you know, being your friend, but I can't tell a 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.040 soul about the details. 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.480 Of your life, right, all right? 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.080 Yeah, no, I mean that's the kind of thing that 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.920 should theoretically ruin someone's career. And I think this is 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.640 going to be the real question of Epstein is does 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:21.080 this stuff matter? Do these people get the kind of 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:22.840 pass that Donald Trump has gone? 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:23.360 Right? 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.040 I think legally a lot of this would have to 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:27.840 come from the DOJ at this point, and it's not 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:28.800 coming from this DOJ. 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:33.280 But it's certainly clear that like CBS should not have 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.320 a person working for them who is a doctor who 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.800 has a thousand emails with Jeffrey Epstein. 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:40.160 Right. 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.720 Look, the accountability here can come in a couple of forms, 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.240 and say more legal accountability is one thing that's the 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.760 most difficult, because this DOJ will not do it. We 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:53.800 know why they've been holding this back because these are people. 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.280 That Trump likes. That is orbit. 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:00.160 The second layer is financial and business level accountability. Do 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.240 not do business with Leon Black. If your company is 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.640 working with Leon Black, you should not be doing that. 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:07.760 And then that goes for a lot of these other 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.880 people too. Cultural and social accountability is the third, and 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.880 that's like, you know why Seve Bannon is popular still, 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.720 It's because he's a great source for a million mainstream reporters. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.920 He talks, He talks inside Baseball with a million mainstream 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.280 reporters every week. Is this the guy you really want 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.240 to trust? A guy who was who had formed an 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:34.480 alliance and was in business with Jeffrey Epstein. As a culture, 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.600 we try to hold people accountable with shame, but shame 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.280 doesn't work with everybody. You've got to cost them money. 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:42.880 You know, you got to cost them, these people money, 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:44.840 You got to cut them off. I mean, I think 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.960 the war Room is on Serious XM or whatever podcasting 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:49.360 network is carrying Steve Bannon. 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:50.400 Are you kidding me? 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.560 You're okay with this guy who was a business partner 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.920 and a buddy and strategizing with a with a known 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.640 pedophile and sex trafficker after he was already convicted of 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.440 being a known pedophile and sex trafficker. 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:04.800 Come on, yeh yeah. 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.160 I think that's a really good point. 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.000 And that's what we need to start talking about, is 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.280 what does accountability look like and what you know? Trump 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.880 got away with it, but most Republicans don't. Right, Matt 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.680 Gates no longer in office, yep. 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.000 And there's an interesting thing. It's like the transitive nature 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.200 of Republicans believing, Okay, if you knew, if you knew 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.359 a pedophile, you therefore are a pedophile. If Hillary Clinton 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.360 knew George Soros and George Soros knew Jeffrey Epstein, therefore 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.960 they are all in the same mix. But Trump gets 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.199 an exception. A lot of these other people don't. A 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.359 lot of Republicans live a life that is very fake, 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.480 very closeted. There are a lot of married Republican members 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.600 of Congress who are gay as the day is long, 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.240 and a lot of same thing in the influencer space, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.440 in the podcasting space. Of these right wing macho manly men, 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.800 they have never been held to account for lying to 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.119 their people about who they are. I think this is 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.440 in a weird way, so pervasive. It's so widespread, it's 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.960 so disgustingly distributed across our culture of the people. He 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.119 drew into this terrible orbit, you know. And it's like, 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.000 not everybody who emailed with Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile, 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.160 but in these emails that have been released, they all 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.600 came after the point that Jeffrey Epstein had been convicted 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.560 in in Palm Beach and been given a sweetheart deal 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.399 for mysterious reasons, when he's already known to be a 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.040 sex trafficker and a pedophile. These people knew this. This 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:29.000 wasn't a secret. 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.320 I want to talk about something really important, which I 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.359 think relates to all of this, but is really the 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.159 fundamental reason why we're probably going to I want to 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.600 talk about John Burns Murdoch. Did you read this piece 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:43.240 today in the Financial Times? No? 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:44.120 I have not seen it. 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:45.720 So basically talks. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.159 About democratic backsliding and the kind of situation we're in 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.240 right now. But it says the democratic backsliding has moved 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.320 at such a rapid pace because Trump is unfettered and 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.160 doesn't care. And it's just what it says is that 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.879 the one thing that is probably going to save us 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.320 knock on Wood is the courts, and I want you 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.040 to talk about the lower level courts that have done 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.480 some good checks and bout. I mean, also, if Democrats 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.159 lose the midterms, we're all fucked. But if Democrats win 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:16.640 the midterms, they'll be accountability. 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.480 I'll be looking for I'll be looking for a cave 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.800 somewhere in a foreign country. 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:23.720 Talk to us about accountability. 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:27.760 Look the courts right now, And interestingly, the lower you 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:32.800 go in the federal court system, the more even Trump 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:39.240 nominees in the federal courts, and certainly many Bush and 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:44.560 Reagan nominees in the federal courts, have said no, absolutely not. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.480 Trump has relied on the DC Circuit and the Supreme 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.199 Court to bail them out over and over again. But 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.480 that doesn't work universally. Right now, that is a very 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:57.119 thin line between autocracy and the rule of law. The 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.400 unwillingness of this administration to obey that law. As we've 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.480 seen in Minnesota with multiple federal court rulings against the 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.440 ICE and DHS where they have completely ignored them and 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:09.880 run rough shot over them. That is a little more 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.439 problematic because there's yet to have been a sanction or 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:17.480 a penalty or a punishment for the administration from these 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.840 courts that has caused them any actual legitimate level of 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:23.720 hesitation or pain. 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.520 Yeah, but there is the political calculus, like they are. 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.960 They did return the five year old in the blue 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:35.560 fluffy hat, so they do see that they. 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.200 Will have to still have elections. I mean, they're going 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:39.000 to try to do that. 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:39.560 They're going to. 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.520 Try to play screw around with it, but they the 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.800 states still run their elections. And the problem for Trump 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.240 canceling the elections, which a lot of people kind of 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:48.119 breathlessly talk. 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:53.359 About, yeah, which is by can you just talk about 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:54.560 cancels the elections? 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.280 It's not just pick and choose. It's all these Republican 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.679 members of Congress, all these republic and office holders across 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.080 the board are delegitimized as well. And then special elections 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:06.600 are going to have to be held once this thing 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:08.600 goes through the courts, and that's going to be at 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.440 a point where the voters are freaking furious and they're 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.240 livid about this, and they know they will get blown 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.280 out even worse than they're going to get blown out 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.320 in twenty six right now, and I am never a 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:20.679 guy who goes one special election. 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:21.600 Is the whole pattern. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:26.200 But now we've seen about forty races across the country 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.920 in twenty five and twenty six, from local stuff down 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:37.000 to state wide stuff. Texas fly this weekend, Texas, you 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:43.000 saw a state Senate district overperform seventeen points by seventeen points, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:49.200 a twenty one point net swing, which is crazy town. 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.440 And by the way, the type of Democrat who won, 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:54.960 he's like a machinist union official. 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:56.560 He's a blue. 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.280 Collar kind of guy. He wasn't out there like my 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.320 eight hundred page plan on tech reform. No, he was 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.760 out there like these people are crazy. I'm not going 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:05.359 to let it keep going. We're going to fix it. 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:07.159 We're going to make your jobs better. We're going to 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.399 stop this insanity. If that scales up. If I was 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:13.919 a Republican right now, we've even seen seats like like 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:18.280 cook political moving Florida from from solid Republican to. 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:21.919 Likely and then that makes you so happy, Florida. 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.520 Movie even a notch like that crazy. 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:26.679 I just want to take a minute here, because you 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:27.800 know you and I are friends. 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:32.360 You're so happy about the David Jolly talk us through 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:36.119 like Florida, because I mean, look, there is a democratic 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.359 mayor in Miami. 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:39.680 For the first time in a jillion years. 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.560 Yeah, twenty one years, I think. So talk us through 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.400 how excited you are about Florida because it's cute. 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:49.639 Look, I'm still I'm still a jaded skeptic about my 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:51.920 home state because I helped build a machine that ran 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:54.679 it now for the last five years. Sorry, folks, but 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:59.800 right now Hispanics in Florida, who went overwhelmingly for Trump 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:02.199 have broken back the other way. The Cubans, who have 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.520 been the loyal, most loyal Maga voters there are Trump 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:09.160 is in the absolutely at this moment preparing to deport 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:12.240 three hundred and fifty thousand Cubans back to Cuba. These 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.119 aren't voters, but they are family members of voters, and 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:17.560 those people are panicking. You got a member of Congress 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:21.240 down there, Alvira Maria Salazar, Republican, who is now one 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:22.840 of the only Republicans like attacking Trump. 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.359 You must stop this. This is wrong. You were insane, sir. 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:28.000 Latinos for Trump, right, isn't she the head. 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:28.800 Of No Yeah? 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:31.760 Yeah, but actually, by the way, the Latinos for Trump guy, 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:35.760 the executive director, was just deported this week. What ironies 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:42.320 abound but Florida is starting to slip with in the South, 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.920 with Hispanics, middle class. Florida is taking an absolute beat 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:50.359 down economically. The housing market here is collapsing. In North Florida, 0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:54.800 You've got farmers, soybeans, cotton, hogs, everything else. They're not 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:57.719 selling their products overseas anymore, and they're finally figuring out 0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:00.359 who's to blame. Does that mean Florida's going to go blue? 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:03.240 No? Does it mean they have to spend money and 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:04.320 do work. Yes. 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:07.160 The Republican primary for governor has now got like five 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:09.120 people in it, and they're all tearing each other limb 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:11.560 from limb. The front runner who is endorsed by Trump 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:16.000 Byron degenerate, Byron Donalds is a degenerate, and that story 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:19.399 will come out will people will go, oh, of course, 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:21.280 And I will tell you something about the Republican base 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:23.879 because I know these people. Even though the guys endorsed 0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:26.320 by Trump Byron Donalds is an African American and north 0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:28.560 of by four is basically Alabama, and I see how 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:29.160 that works out. 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:32.480 Yeah, And I think it's important also to mention that 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:35.080 in Florida and in a lot of red states, you 0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:38.359 do see blue governors sometimes make it. 0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:40.800 You know, we've seen in Louisiana. We've seen it. 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:43.119 I mean not right now, but we've seen in Kentucky, 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:47.399 North Carolina. Red states will elect blue governors. 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:51.200 It does happen, and statewide officials in red states. Florida 0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:54.160 is a rare exception in a lot of ways because 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:57.720 we haven't had a Democratic statewide official for twenty years. 0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:00.800 But the machine that was built down here, built under 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:04.240 in the Bush era, that was built down here. DeSantis 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:08.480 has been a spectacularly bad governor for Republican morale. He 0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:12.359 and Trump are at war still to this day. He 0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:15.000 and his wife are being investigated for a forty million 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:18.800 dollar fraud that's going to trickle down to other Republicans 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:22.280 as well. The battle to replace him is turning into, 0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:24.800 as I mentioned to a six or seven way food fight. 0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:27.760 All these things do not make it inevitable for a 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:30.399 blue candidate to win. But if you're David Jolly or 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:33.560 you're alex Vinman running state wide, you know what, roll 0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:36.440 the dice. Roll the damn dice. This is your year 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:39.200 to roll the dice. If you think you're a long 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:42.520 shot and the state is generically R plus eight, which 0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:45.920 it is this year, You've got a chance. And that's 0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:49.600 what's happening in Texas. I mean, look, tall Rico has 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:51.240 a real chance to win in Texas if they have 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:53.720 named Keim Paxson's the nominee, and I think Maxon will 0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:56.160 be the nominee. I don't think Tallarico could beat Corny, 0:25:56.200 --> 0:25:57.719 but I think you can sure as hell beat Packson. 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:00.960 If you see a statewide Democra to emerge in any 0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:03.639 big red state, any red state for that matter, or 0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:06.400 a medium sized North Carolina is gonna elect a Democratic 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:08.919 senator this year. If you see that start to happen, 0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:13.080 there is an inevitable process that begins where the money 0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:16.719 flow in terms of campaign donations starts to change. Where 0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:20.000 suddenly the lobbyist who would have gotten his people together 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:23.880 to write a million dollars worth of checks for somebody goes, hey, listen, 0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:26.480 I know I love you, man. Trump's a great guy, 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:29.520 but you know, John Smith is the Democratic senator from 0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:30.880 here now, and I got to I gotta make sure 0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:32.480 he's good with us so he doesn't do anything to. 0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:35.240 Us in the in the what cheated process. 0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:38.000 And if Democrats start to win these seats, by the way, 0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:39.320 play hardball. 0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:40.320 Say more. 0:26:40.600 --> 0:26:41.320 Let's put this way. 0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:44.679 When Kevin McCarthy was Speaker, he went to lobbyists all 0:26:44.680 --> 0:26:46.600 over d Seed and like, you give the need Democrats money, 0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:49.480 I'm gonna fuck you over. I'm gonna take away your appropriations. 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:52.600 That is the kind of hardball that needs to be 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:55.840 played here. That is the kind of like you come 0:26:55.840 --> 0:26:59.400 to me with some maga maga. You know, lobbyists, you're 0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:01.959 not coming to mind office. Come to me with some 0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:05.080 with some I find out you've donated to to you know, 0:27:05.359 --> 0:27:09.920 Democratic congressional districts in my Republican congressional competitors in my state. 0:27:10.119 --> 0:27:13.280 We're gonna have an issue. Hardball is real. It exists 0:27:13.280 --> 0:27:16.280 behind the behind the nice cities of DC, and Democrats 0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:18.439 when they take back the House are going to have 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:20.800 to learn to play it quickly. And that is going 0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:24.359 to in part be choking off the money that feeds 0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:27.000 the maga machine from these corporate interests around the country. 0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:29.920 I mean, they need to call Jeff Bezos and Mark 0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:32.000 Zuckerberg and Elon and the rest of them are like, 0:27:32.440 --> 0:27:35.600 all right, motherfuckers, here's how it's going to go from 0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:35.960 now on. 0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:38.320 Your appropriations are going to grind to a hall. 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:39.840 None of the ship you want is going to happen, 0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:42.040 and we're going to pass a National Data center ban. 0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:45.800 How about that? They got to play. 0:27:45.560 --> 0:27:47.320 Hardball, Rick Wilson. 0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:49.359 I'm here to advise as always. 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:53.400 National Data center ban. I like it. 0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:57.879 Christopher Mattatos is a reporter of for outlets like The 0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:00.800 Huffington Post, The Guardian and ms now. He is also 0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:03.879 the author of To Catch a Fascist, The Fight to 0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:05.120 Expose the Radical Right. 0:28:05.520 --> 0:28:07.640 Welcome to Fast Politics, Christopher. 0:28:08.280 --> 0:28:09.760 Thank you so much for having me, Molly. 0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:10.280 How you doing. 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:13.320 You know, I remember the days of you at. 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:16.480 The huff Post. We're just all getting older and older, 0:28:16.680 --> 0:28:20.159 I know. So talk us through To Catch a Fascist? 0:28:20.600 --> 0:28:23.960 How you got involved in this and sort of what 0:28:24.119 --> 0:28:27.920 this looks like the shadow war waged to defend what's 0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:29.000 left of democracy. 0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:31.280 Back in twenty seventeen, like you said, when I was 0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:34.600 a reporter at huff Post, I found myself in Charlottesville, 0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:37.960 Virginia for the United the Right rally, which obviously was 0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:41.480 you know, the largest white supremacist gathering in generation, and 0:28:41.560 --> 0:28:44.360 died with the neo Nazi killing a counter protester driving 0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:47.040 his car into a crowd, killing heather Higher. When I 0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:49.000 got back to New York, my editor at the time, 0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:53.040 Woudio Paulgreen, told me that this was my beat now, 0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:54.560 that I was going to be covering the far right, 0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:58.280 and that kind of started this decade long journey to 0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:03.240 figure out who was in this kind of insurgent fascist movement, 0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:07.480 this kind of like resurrected invisible Empire, like trying to 0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:11.440 recreate the clans invisible Empire. There were so many secretive 0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:14.280 white supremacist groups and I was trying to figure out 0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:16.560 who was in them. Very quickly I learned that the 0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:20.719 people doing the best research into these groups was Antifa. 0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:23.800 It was, you know, this kind of radical underground network 0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:29.400 of anarchists and socialists and communists who often deployed spies 0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:34.320 into white supremacist groups, into Nazi groups to gather intelligence. 0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:37.360 And over the course of the last ten years, these 0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:43.640 anti fascists identified thousands of pseudonymous American Nazis, revealing them 0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:47.120 to be you know, people in positions of power, politicians, pastors, 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:51.480 police officers, professors, teachers, and in the process, these anti 0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:56.240 fascist spies ended up destroying multiple fascist groups that belonged 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:57.640 to the so called al right. 0:29:57.960 --> 0:30:03.760 It's interesting we talk about out antifa because the right 0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:07.240 is obsessed and the Trump administration obsessed with Antifa. They 0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:10.200 believe it's like a huge organization with the headquarters and 0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:10.920 of this and of that. 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:14.200 So I'd love you to define what is antifa. 0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:18.280 Yes, So there's so many misapprehensions about antifa, and no 0:30:18.320 --> 0:30:20.200 one can really tell you what it is, and no 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:22.920 one in America really knew what it was before twenty seventeen. 0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:26.040 You know, at the end of twenty seventeen, Webster Dictionary 0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:30.040 added antifa into his dictionary. Oxford Dictionary shortlisted it for 0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:32.200 word of the Year, and the reason for that was 0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:35.080 because this like in bold and far right kept showing 0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:37.920 up on the streets of America and we're getting punched. 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:41.560 And most people associate antifa with Nazi punching, which is 0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:43.640 a part of it. So the way I define antifa 0:30:43.720 --> 0:30:49.400 is basically, it is a underground, decentralized subculture or network 0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:53.440 of radical leftists dedicated to destroying the far right by 0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:58.160 any means necessary. And they subscribe to a few basic tenants, 0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:01.400 which is that the far right fascists need to be 0:31:01.640 --> 0:31:06.000 confronted in the streets, sometimes violently, that fascists should have 0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:08.959 no platform to speak or organize, so that means, you know, 0:31:09.000 --> 0:31:12.000 trying to get their permits revoked, to hold a rally, 0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:15.640 trying to get them deplatform from social media for violating 0:31:15.680 --> 0:31:18.520 terms of service. And then finally, the like final really 0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:22.080 important tenet of kind of militant anti fascism or antifa 0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:25.760 is that the state and law enforcement cannot be trusted 0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:29.520 in this fight. So they do not believe that cops 0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:32.400 can be trusted to fight fascists. They see police kind 0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:36.440 of invested, inherently invested in like a white supremacist project. 0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:39.440 And you know, I think antifa the word itself is 0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:41.840 obviously just a shortening of anti fascists, and obviously I 0:31:41.840 --> 0:31:45.320 think we all hopefully listening to this would consider ourselves 0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.880 anti fascist. But antifa itself, I think refers to this 0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:53.000 very specific kind of militant tradition that grew out of 0:31:53.280 --> 0:31:56.160 the punk scene essentially in the eighties and nineties in America. 0:31:56.600 --> 0:31:59.920 But there's also a research component, and that is what 0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:03.600 you're talking about here, is the sort of anti fascist research. 0:32:03.720 --> 0:32:07.320 What did you find that was surprising to you when 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:09.920 you looked into this world? 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:14.360 Basically, you have of this network of activists doing some 0:32:14.440 --> 0:32:17.280 of the most remarkable journalism in the country, even though 0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:20.200 it's not called journalism, you know, not recognized as journalism 0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:24.120 by the mainstream press. These are anonymous activists and they 0:32:24.200 --> 0:32:27.280 stay anonymous to prevent reprisals from the far right, to 0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:30.840 protect themselves from violence. But they started doing this work 0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:34.880 mostly because they had brushes with fascists in their communities. 0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:38.479 There was an anti fascist activist I talked to whose 0:32:38.680 --> 0:32:41.520 good friend lost a family member in the massacre at 0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:43.800 the l Pass and Walmart, and that's what started her 0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:46.960 doing this work. But you know, the MAGA and Trump 0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:51.800 have created this hysterical caricature like you mentioned of antifa, right, 0:32:51.840 --> 0:32:54.840 this kind of like highly regimented army of black clad 0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:57.480 radicals that are going to like bombshit and like you know, 0:32:57.600 --> 0:32:59.840 are anti Christian and want to turn your kids tran 0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:02.720 and on all this stuff. You know, in reality, they 0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:05.840 are everyday Americans. They are soccer moms, they are rednecks. 0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:09.760 They're researchers largely right, They're largely researchers. 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:14.720 And what they do is they do open source intelligence investigations. 0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:18.120 It's basically the digital equivalent of ripping the wide hood 0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:20.680 off of a Klansman. They look at all of these 0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:23.840 fascists that hide behind user names and avatars online and 0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:27.160 figure out who they are. A big part of what 0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:31.120 they did was use spies, and this is the main 0:33:31.160 --> 0:33:33.840 characters in my book are anti fascist spies that go 0:33:34.040 --> 0:33:37.280 undercover into this new generation of fascist groups in the 0:33:37.320 --> 0:33:40.600 Trump era and gather all of this intelligence. They you know, 0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:44.600 secret they record secret audio, they take covert photos, they 0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:47.040 take photos of license plates. But one of the most 0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:50.560 important things they do is that they acquire hundreds and 0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:55.080 thousands of gigabytes of data of private messages that these 0:33:55.160 --> 0:33:57.680 Nazi groups send to each other, and then they post 0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:00.360 those messages in an open source database on why on 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:03.320 a website called unicorn Riot, which is doing fantastic job 0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:05.320 on the ground in Minneapolis right now, by the way. 0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:09.319 And then anti fascist researchers go through these messages to 0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:12.400 look for clues and morsels that can be used to 0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:16.560 identify these Nazis. And what they end up finding is 0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:18.840 that a lot of these Nazis are in positions of power. 0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:21.680 A lot of these Nazis are involved with the Republican Party, 0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:25.040 you know. Essentially, I think what antifa and anti fascists 0:34:25.239 --> 0:34:28.200 find out before anyone, or you know, I think raise 0:34:28.239 --> 0:34:31.920 alarm about before anyone, is that America is headed in 0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:34.080 a very dark trajectory. 0:34:34.239 --> 0:34:36.040 What are they doing in Minnesota? 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:39.960 So anti fascists activists across the country right now are 0:34:40.480 --> 0:34:44.400 monitoring what's happening in Minnesota, and for a long time, 0:34:44.840 --> 0:34:46.840 like I said, for the past decade, have been involved 0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:50.040 in identifying this new generation of fascists. Right now, they've 0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:54.799 repurposed their investigative skills to identify ICE agents. So they 0:34:54.880 --> 0:34:59.520 are involved, actively involved in figuring out, you know, taking 0:34:59.520 --> 0:35:03.320 the masks off Trump's secret police that are terrorizing places 0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:05.600 like Minneapolis. I have a story coming out this week 0:35:05.600 --> 0:35:09.400 that identifies an ICE agent seeing Pepper spraying a protester 0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:12.040 at point blank range while he's on the ground. That 0:35:12.160 --> 0:35:15.719 identity came through anti fascist research. And they're doing this 0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:19.080 to create accountability for being an ICE. They want to 0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:21.880 create a social cost for being an ICE agent and 0:35:21.920 --> 0:35:25.480 basically tell ICE agents that if you don't leave this 0:35:25.760 --> 0:35:28.200 secret police force now, you will never be able to 0:35:28.239 --> 0:35:30.319 like wash away this shame like you will be name 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:32.439 and chained for the rest of your life for having been. 0:35:32.360 --> 0:35:33.879 A part of this, it doesn't work. 0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:38.440 I think it works. Basically. Antifa, you know, destroyed multiple 0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:42.600 fascist groups by depriving them of the anonymity, depriving them 0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:45.160 of the ability to work in the dark. Of course, 0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:48.360 like we are in this mask off moment in fascism 0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:51.120 right right now, where what supremacists are in power, so 0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:54.239 in a way, like the ability to dock someone to 0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:56.680 create a consequence for being a Nazi is diminished. But 0:35:57.040 --> 0:36:00.279 you know, it's important to create that social came and 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:03.680 preserve that's social costs, and to warn your neighbors about 0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:06.439 who in your community is a fascist and might want 0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:09.080 to harm them. So I think the work is still 0:36:09.160 --> 0:36:12.680 very important. And I think especially right now with identifying 0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:16.440 ICE agents and figuring out who this secret police force 0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:20.600 is coming to your cippy's, there's already growing opposition to 0:36:20.719 --> 0:36:24.840 ICE and support for the phrase abolish Ice. You know, 0:36:24.880 --> 0:36:27.919 that's reaching record highs. So I think anti fascist work 0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:31.360 that leverages that growing on popularity is important, and I 0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:31.919 think it's good. 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:35.840 Yeah, No, it's obviously very good, and it's very necessary. 0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:36.880 Am I dumb? 0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:39.680 But wouldn't this be the job of the FBI and 0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:41.280 a normal America? 0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:42.680 Yeah? 0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:44.239 I mean because isn't this what. 0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:46.759 The FBI is supposed to be doing, like people do 0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:49.200 crimes figuring out, Yeah. 0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:50.640 I mean totally. I mean, you know, there's plenty of 0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:55.040 examples of the FBI going undercover into white supremacist groups. 0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:58.400 You know, I think for from the military anti fascist perspective, 0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:01.319 the FBI is you know, never going to do enough, 0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:05.040 you know, especially under the second Trump administration. You know, 0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:09.600 they are certainly not prioritizing going after white supremacist groups, 0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:12.320 and there's been reporting to that effect. What the FBI 0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:14.560 is being directed to do with the DOJ is being 0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:17.880 directed to do is to go after Antifa, to go 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:22.120 after anti fascists. You know, in September, the Trump administration 0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:26.200 claimed to designate Antifa a quote domestic terrorist organization, which 0:37:26.239 --> 0:37:29.040 is absurd. There is no federal statute by which to 0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:33.239 declare any group of domestic terrorist organization. And moreover, Antifa 0:37:33.360 --> 0:37:37.080 isn't even an organization, like you said earlier, there's no headquarters, 0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:41.280 there's no leaders, there's no like rich benefactors giving it money. 0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:44.719 So yeah, you know, like on a normal timeline, sure, yeah, 0:37:44.840 --> 0:37:47.600 maybe the FBI should be in charge of this. The 0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:50.320 argument my book makes is that over the last ten years, 0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:53.080 even under the Biden administration, I think the work that 0:37:53.120 --> 0:37:56.520 Antifa is doing, going under cover into what supremacist groups 0:37:56.719 --> 0:38:00.240 and doxing its members did more to destabilize those groups 0:38:00.280 --> 0:38:01.360 than law enforcement. 0:38:01.680 --> 0:38:03.040 Right, No, for sure, for sure. 0:38:03.280 --> 0:38:06.319 And there's like is the government incompetent or is the 0:38:06.360 --> 0:38:07.640 government corrupt? 0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:08.279 Right? 0:38:08.880 --> 0:38:09.759 Right? Right? 0:38:10.239 --> 0:38:12.480 Or in this case, you know, is are these white 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:15.560 supremacist groups do they share the same mission as the 0:38:15.600 --> 0:38:16.400 Trump administration? 0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:16.960 Right? 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:18.040 Which they do for sure? 0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:18.920 And this question they do. 0:38:19.280 --> 0:38:21.719 So I don't want you to docs anyone, but I 0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:24.640 want you to give us sort of a character, either 0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:27.399 who is out of the game or who. 0:38:27.360 --> 0:38:29.560 You feel comfortable talking about. 0:38:29.760 --> 0:38:31.600 One of the main characters of the book is an 0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:35.960 anti fascist named Vincent who goes undercover into the Nazi 0:38:36.040 --> 0:38:38.680 group Patriot Front, and he spends about six months in 0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:42.480 Patriot Front basically doing method acting, you know, pretends to 0:38:42.520 --> 0:38:46.160 be a Nazi, and he goes on their pikes. He 0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:50.280 goes on their missions, the vandalists omissions, He is their meetings. 0:38:50.440 --> 0:38:53.080 He gains enough trust of this group that they name 0:38:53.160 --> 0:38:57.600 him the official photographer, so he is taking photos for 0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:00.000 their propaganda and kind of you know, stealing away those 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:03.480 photos and photos of their faces, and then you know, 0:39:03.560 --> 0:39:06.400 after about five or six months, his infiltration leads to 0:39:06.440 --> 0:39:10.360 anti fascists acquiring four hundred and forty gigabytes worth of 0:39:10.440 --> 0:39:13.799 messages that Patriot Front members are sending to each other. 0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:18.280 These messages end up being put online and anti fascist 0:39:18.280 --> 0:39:22.920 researchers across the country use them to ultimately identify about 0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:26.200 eighty members of Patriot Front. Ultimately there is an effort, 0:39:26.719 --> 0:39:29.680 you know, Vincent, I call him Vincent the character. He 0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:33.000 remains anonymous, but Patriot Front ends up figuring out who 0:39:33.000 --> 0:39:36.319 he is and files a lawsuit against him, which was 0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:40.360 just dismissed last week. But I think stories like Vincent, 0:39:40.360 --> 0:39:43.360 there are many stories like Vincent's, many stories of people 0:39:43.480 --> 0:39:47.080 that very bravely were confronting the far right in their communities, 0:39:47.280 --> 0:39:49.839 kind of operating under this axiom of we protect us 0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:52.560 right that like the government ote that law enforcement isn't 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:54.400 going to protect us, it is up to us to 0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:57.480 stop this. And I think that ethos is exactly what 0:39:57.520 --> 0:39:59.720 we're seeing on the streets of Minneapolis right now, where 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:04.240 the community came together and realized that these masked police 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:07.640 being deployed. I would argue for a fascist project, for 0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:10.400 a project of ethnic cleansing. You know, no one's going 0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:12.359 to stop them. The police Department's not going to stop them. 0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:15.600 The Democratic Party is not doing anything to stop them. 0:40:15.680 --> 0:40:18.000 So it's up to the community to stop them. And 0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:21.680 you know, what they did, what Minneapolis was doing, bears 0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:24.440 a striking resemblance to what anti fascists were doing in 0:40:24.480 --> 0:40:27.560 the first Trump administration with fascist groups on the streets. 0:40:27.560 --> 0:40:31.560 They were monitoring them, they were you know, identifying them. 0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:35.040 They were pressuring venues and hotels not to host them, 0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:38.840 they were doing noise demos. They're basically creating it, like 0:40:38.880 --> 0:40:41.040 I said, creating a social cost for being a part 0:40:41.080 --> 0:40:43.799 of this and saying you are not welcome here. You 0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:48.640 are terrorizing this community, and there needs to be shame 0:40:48.880 --> 0:40:49.840 for what you're a part of. 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:52.359 Yeah, and I think that's a really good point, and 0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:56.960 I think like that is ultimately the goal here, especially 0:40:57.000 --> 0:41:01.280 one it comes to what's happened? What are you seeing 0:41:01.320 --> 0:41:03.319 with these groups right now? Because there's been such a 0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:06.719 sea change even from when you started in twenty seventeen. 0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:11.000 They are now the mainstream. So are they more hidden 0:41:11.200 --> 0:41:14.120 less hidden? Interacting with the government like what do you 0:41:14.120 --> 0:41:16.759 think the trajectory is for these sort of people who 0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:18.840 have been under the radar for a long time. 0:41:19.280 --> 0:41:22.200 Yeah, I mean there was like this explosion, you know, 0:41:22.280 --> 0:41:25.000 obviously of fascist groups at the beginning of the first 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:29.400 Trump administration, you know, secretive groups, and you know, in retrospect, 0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:32.440 I think those groups kind of acted like a vanguard, 0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:35.759 like shock troops of the for the Magro project. They 0:41:36.239 --> 0:41:39.520 were they were pushing the Overton window open wider and 0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:43.600 wider for the GOP to accept more and more vile 0:41:43.760 --> 0:41:48.040 ideas and like explicit white nationalists ideas. You know, it's 0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:51.279 interesting when you look back at the stolen chats that 0:41:51.360 --> 0:41:55.920 Antifa obtained from these Nazi groups, you see them using 0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:59.160 all these terms that the Trump administration is using now. 0:41:59.400 --> 0:42:02.200 For example, well you can see the moment the word 0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:07.840 remigration arrives from Europe to America in Nazi chats. Now, 0:42:08.040 --> 0:42:10.919 remigration is a term you hear all the time from 0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:14.799 Stephen Miller and the Trump administration. Remigration is just a 0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:18.760 European euphemism for ethnic cleansing. It's very explicit. You also 0:42:18.760 --> 0:42:22.240 see the arrival of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory in 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:25.080 Nazi chats. In twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen, you know, 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:28.359 chats obtained by Antifa, and then a few years later 0:42:28.480 --> 0:42:32.279 you're seeing the rights talk about the Great Replacement all 0:42:32.320 --> 0:42:34.560 the time. So a lot of these fascist groups that 0:42:34.600 --> 0:42:38.600 were involved in this project in popularizing these terms, you know, 0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:41.520 have since disbanded in a way, you know, they're no 0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:45.040 longer useful. And I draw this comparison to the First 0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:47.680 and Second Clan. You know, the first plan was created 0:42:47.680 --> 0:42:50.960 to destroy Reconstruction, and when Reconstruction was abandoned, they kind 0:42:51.000 --> 0:42:54.279 of disbanded, you know, they exchanged the anonymity of the 0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:56.560 hood for the anonymity of the lynch mob. I think 0:42:56.920 --> 0:42:59.520 there's a similar dynamic at play right now. When fascists 0:42:59.560 --> 0:43:02.279 wear they want to create a world in which they 0:43:02.320 --> 0:43:04.680 won't need to wear masks at all, and we are 0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:07.160 kind of living in that mask off moment, and I 0:43:07.160 --> 0:43:09.640 think it's important for us to consider a world in 0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:13.160 which ICE agents are comfortable not wearing masks. Part of 0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:15.720 the anti fascist project right now is stopping that world 0:43:15.760 --> 0:43:19.080 from being created. So that's a very long winded explanation 0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:21.000 of saying a lot of the fascist groups that I 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:23.760 document in my book aren't as active anymore as because 0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:25.040 they don't need. 0:43:24.920 --> 0:43:28.240 To be Christopher. That was so upset. 0:43:30.280 --> 0:43:34.880 Even Booboo doesn't like it. Thank you, thank you for 0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:35.800 joining us. 0:43:35.920 --> 0:43:37.000 Thanks so much for having me by. 0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:43.080 No moment, Rick Wilson, is it that time? 0:43:43.400 --> 0:43:44.200 It's that time? 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:45.480 I love that time. 0:43:45.600 --> 0:43:47.080 What is your moment of fuckery? 0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:49.920 My moment of fuckery is that Donald Trump's pillaging of 0:43:49.960 --> 0:43:54.000 the American treasury continues unabated this week, with him suing 0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:57.720 the IRS for ten billion dollars because an IRS official 0:43:57.880 --> 0:44:01.080 leaked to tax information at some point. Yeah, look, the 0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:03.800 IRS should not leak tax information. Now, it's a crime. 0:44:04.200 --> 0:44:06.080 The guy that did it has already been punished for it. 0:44:06.120 --> 0:44:08.319 But Trump suing the IRS for ten billion dollars, which 0:44:08.360 --> 0:44:10.919 the IRS will give him. They will settle and say, yes, sir, 0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:14.280 here's your money. Yeah, that is just flat fricking robbing 0:44:14.320 --> 0:44:17.120 the US taxpayer. What harm was done by that leak 0:44:17.160 --> 0:44:17.640 to Trump? 0:44:17.880 --> 0:44:20.800 Nothing? He's in office, then something for being in office. 0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:23.480 They may have actually, he may have missed the statute 0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:24.759 of limitations on it. 0:44:24.960 --> 0:44:27.200 Maybe maybe I'm I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not 0:44:27.280 --> 0:44:29.799 positive on that. But here's the thing. Trump is going 0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:32.080 to threaten to sue a lot of people in the 0:44:32.120 --> 0:44:33.160 coming weeks and months. 0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:34.560 Are you listening, ABC? 0:44:34.920 --> 0:44:37.200 Yeah? Are you listening? And Michael Wolfe again. 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:39.759 You know in ninety nine point nine nine percent of 0:44:39.800 --> 0:44:43.240 all Trump lawsuits are meant these days to make money 0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:43.600 for him. 0:44:43.760 --> 0:44:45.560 This IRS lawsuit is no exception. 0:44:45.600 --> 0:44:49.719 It's a pure corrupt ca robbery of the American taxpayer. 0:44:49.800 --> 0:44:52.040 Correct, Rick Wilson. 0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:54.439 Molly Drug Fast as always, I'll see you next week. 0:44:55.160 --> 0:45:01.960 That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in Monday, Wednesday, 0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:06.680 Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics 0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:07.560 make sense of. 0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:09.160 All this chaos. 0:45:09.520 --> 0:45:12.319 If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a 0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:14.800 friend and keep the conversation going. 0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:16.400 Thanks for listening.