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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly john Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and five year old Liam Ramos and

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Speaker 1: his father have been released from an ice detention center.

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Speaker 2: We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: The Lincoln Project's owner Rick Wilson joins us to discuss.

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Speaker 2: The fallout of the Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Files and what Democrats winning in deep red Texas means.

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Speaker 2: For their mid term chances.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to a reporter, Christopher Matteas about his

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Speaker 1: new book, To Catch a Fascist, the fight to expose

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Speaker 1: the radical right.

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Speaker 2: But first the.

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Speaker 3: News Smiley Keem Jeffries has told Mike Johnson that he

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Speaker 3: should not count on DEM's votes to end the government

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Speaker 3: partial shutdown.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so Democrats in leadership get a lot of static

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Speaker 1: and some of it is very much deserved. But I

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Speaker 1: do think they are deeply trying to tow the line

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Speaker 1: on all of this. And let me just talk about

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Speaker 1: what's happening right now. The Senate basically set it up

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Speaker 1: so that the government would shut down over the weekend

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Speaker 1: but reopen starting on Monday.

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Speaker 2: And they did this.

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Speaker 1: They passed all of the minibus bills and then they

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Speaker 1: just did a two week.

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Speaker 2: Patch on the homeland security.

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Speaker 1: Why did they do this because most people are pretty

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Speaker 1: horrified by what ICE is doing and they want Democrats

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Speaker 1: to get something on these, you know, before they write

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Speaker 1: a blank.

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Speaker 2: Check for billions of dollars. What are the things people want?

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Speaker 1: Well, a lot of state houses and a lot of

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Speaker 1: state legislators are trying to change the rules so that

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Speaker 1: if you are abducted by ICE, you can sue them

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Speaker 1: if they do something to you. They're trying to sort

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Speaker 1: of change the immunity the way the immunity looks. Look,

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Speaker 1: this administration likes to lie and say that these border

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Speaker 1: patrol agents or ICE has absolute immunity.

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Speaker 2: They do not.

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Speaker 1: They have forms of immunity, but they do not have

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Speaker 1: absolute immunity. And so, in fact, there is some way

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Speaker 1: to be made whole.

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Speaker 2: By some of this.

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Speaker 1: But the idea here is to make it so that

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Speaker 1: there's more civil protect so you can sue these people

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Speaker 1: if they bash up your car, so you have some

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Speaker 1: you know, when you're marched out of your house in

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Speaker 1: your bathrobe, when your ninety year old father is marched

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Speaker 1: out of the house in his bathrobe, that you can

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Speaker 1: in fact sue the government. Part of what people want, though,

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Speaker 1: really is they want them to stop being masks. They

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Speaker 1: want accountability, they want you know, checks and balances. We'll

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Speaker 1: see if they can get it. This is a two

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Speaker 1: week funding patch. But I think what is important here,

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Speaker 1: what he Keem is saying is that Mike Johnson may

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Speaker 1: not get those Democratic votes, and if he doesn't get

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Speaker 1: those Democratic votes, he can't end the shutdown.

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Speaker 2: This is good.

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Speaker 1: What we need democrats in power to do is hold

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Speaker 1: Republicans accountable. Historically you haven't been able to do that

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Speaker 1: when you don't control the House. But because the margins

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Speaker 1: are so small and because Mike Johnson is so incompetent,

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Speaker 1: we've really seen Democrats be able to do a lot

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Speaker 1: more than you would think.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you don't have a Senator like John Fetterman

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Speaker 3: there to say that ice are good boys who deserve

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Speaker 3: a pat of the head.

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Speaker 4: So it could happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you have Democrats who vote for shitty crap,

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Speaker 1: I mean shared golden Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We saw Congressman Tom Swazi face the wrath of his

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Speaker 3: constituents with it this week, and.

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Speaker 2: Man, let's see what happens.

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Speaker 3: So Mammy, Usually if I heard the saying bye Chic.

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Speaker 3: I'd think I was watching Austin Powers or something, but

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Speaker 3: instead we're in another nightmare of Trump conflicts of interest,

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Speaker 3: where the whole economy is being rigged for him to grift.

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Speaker 3: This story for the Wall Street Journal is fucking bananas.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to just take a minute here.

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Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal has done some incredible reporting.

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Speaker 4: I have to bow down as a hater.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, and you're a hater, and I am

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Speaker 1: very conflicted about their ed page. But the reporting they've

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Speaker 1: done has been great, and so kudos to them. Remember,

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Speaker 1: reporting is expensive. You need lawyers, you need fact checkers.

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Speaker 1: It's much harder than just like a substack. That's your opinion,

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Speaker 1: which is not to say sebstack isn't great. So here's

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Speaker 1: the deal. Five hundred million dollar investment for forty nine

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Speaker 1: percent of world liberty came before the United Arab Emirates

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Speaker 1: one access to the tightly guarded American AI chips. So

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Speaker 1: here's the deal. There's a lot of controversy about selling

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Speaker 1: these advanced AI chips to countries like China, just selling

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Speaker 1: them internationally. Then this spy chic not chic that he

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Speaker 1: might be Also she bought half of a tightly a

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Speaker 1: very trumpy owned company which at least thirty one million

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Speaker 1: dollars of that was slated to flow into entities affiliated

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Speaker 1: with the family of Steve Woodcoff. You'll remember Steve Woodcoff

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Speaker 1: as being a random rich guy who's friends with Trump,

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Speaker 1: who also is negotiating peace in the Middle East as

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Speaker 1: one does. This is just like exactly the kind of

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Speaker 1: shit that we see. And it's a catocracy, right. This

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Speaker 1: is a president who is unchecked, who is unmoored, and

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Speaker 1: who has basically treated the presidency like piggy bank, like

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Speaker 1: just trying to make as much money as humanly possible.

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Speaker 2: And that's what we're seeing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and truly this really as you go through this report,

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Speaker 3: it just gets uglier, all the implications speaking of very

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Speaker 3: ugly firing chemical munitions at peaceful protesters, including children, which

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Speaker 3: I did in Portland this weekend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so again, these guys are out of control, and

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Speaker 1: like they think this is good because Trumpers like it.

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Speaker 1: They think this is good because they are so online

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Speaker 1: that a lot of Steven Miller's people, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: in the echo chamber, just like Biden people would always

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Speaker 1: say Biden was in the echo chamber.

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Speaker 2: That's the same thing. So you got Steven Miller goes on.

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Speaker 1: Twitter like, yeah, it's cool the gas kids, I mean,

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Speaker 1: to your gas and then we have situations like this.

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Speaker 1: The problem for Republicans is like Indies hate this crowd.

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Speaker 1: Indie voters, the people you need to win elections, don't

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Speaker 1: like to see their democracy, to see the government gasing children.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine why they don't like it. It's a mystery.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and particularly too, no one wants this in their city. Like,

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Speaker 3: no one wants to see people who were just staging

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Speaker 3: as sit in get chemicals. It's strange city budgets because

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Speaker 3: we have to treat people for these things, like it's crazy,

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Speaker 3: Like our tax dollars going to this is ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, it's a couple things. One

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Speaker 1: it's bad for them politically. Two it's expensive. Three it's

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Speaker 1: dangerous for It's not what we do in this country.

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Speaker 1: Like the First Amendment is the first one. Our freedom

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Speaker 1: of speech, our freedom of protest. It's the first cause

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Speaker 1: of the First Amendment. I mean, this is not even

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Speaker 1: like we're talking about some amendment that was added, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is number one. This was the first

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Speaker 1: thing they said was the right to protest. And that's

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Speaker 1: because these people came from a mad king. They had

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Speaker 1: lived under a mad British king. The founders, you know,

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Speaker 1: they wanted to have accountability. They wanted a democracy where

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Speaker 1: people could protest things they didn't like, like the Tea Party.

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Speaker 1: And so the fact that this administration is so obsessed

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Speaker 1: with hurting protesters, I think is like one of the many,

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Speaker 1: many red flags.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, speaking of horrible implications of Republican policy, the ACDA

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Speaker 3: subsidies are set to expire, and right as that happens,

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Speaker 3: there's an economic survey where voters site health costs as

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Speaker 3: the top economic worry for them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So look, well, Donald Trump is busy building a

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Speaker 1: giant arch, redoing the east wing right so that he

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Speaker 1: can have a big, beautiful ballroom that can fit nine

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Speaker 1: nine nine, one hundred people. God knows why he wants

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Speaker 1: that number.

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Speaker 4: It's not first friend Herman kan to remember him?

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Speaker 1: Oh the nine nine nine for Herman Kane. He killed

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Speaker 1: Herman Kin?

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Speaker 2: Did hermon Caan di have COVID?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? At a Trump probay, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I remember that from season one two out of three

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Speaker 1: American survey at sixty six percent, or worry about paying

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Speaker 1: for healthcare more than other household necessities which have also

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Speaker 1: grown up utilities, food and groceries, housing and rent, gasoline,

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Speaker 1: and transportation. But they can also add to their list

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Speaker 1: of worry is getting deported to a country they did

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Speaker 1: not come from, even if they're United States citizen. Look,

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Speaker 1: it's thirty billion dollars to pay to keep these subsidies

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Speaker 1: from expiring. Donald Trump is suing the Irs for ten

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Speaker 1: billion dollars. So if he can just do that three times,

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Speaker 1: he could donate the money to paying for ACA subsidies.

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Speaker 2: Something to do.

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Speaker 1: Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project. In

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Speaker 1: the host of the Enemy's List, Rick Wilson, Well.

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Speaker 5: Junk fast, how are you this fine day?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 2: I'm just living the dream.

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Speaker 5: It is a dream, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: So Ebstein files they can only ever released them on

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Speaker 1: a Friday.

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Speaker 6: Of course, it's the news dump of all news dumps,

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Speaker 6: three million pages. And folks, I mean we've already talked through.

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Speaker 6: Everybody's already talked through many of the revelations. There will

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Speaker 6: be many more.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about what's happened now we have Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: tweeting through it.

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Speaker 2: So we emails that said things like are you going

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Speaker 2: to have a party? We had it.

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Speaker 1: The most embarrassing email was Galaine trying to tell Elon

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Speaker 1: that they weren't at the place anymore, so he shouldn't

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Speaker 1: bother comes.

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Speaker 6: Somebody said, oh, I bet they turned off the lights

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Speaker 6: when his helicopter flew by, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean it did feel like but he and he

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Speaker 1: and it was like an absolute Everything he had said

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Speaker 1: about Epstein was a lie, just like it.

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Speaker 6: Looked, just like Howard Nutlck and all these other people,

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Speaker 6: all these thirsty bastards who now are like Jeffrey who

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Speaker 6: what No. Their emails are like Geezer, may I come

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Speaker 6: to your party? May I watch the nude women? May

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Speaker 6: I have another girl?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: I mean I've been thinking about this a lot. I

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Speaker 6: wrote about it over the weekend. This guy was evil,

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Speaker 6: and this Department of Justice came out a few months

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Speaker 6: ago and said there's nothing there no victims in the

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Speaker 6: Epstein files. Pam Bondi said those words, there are no

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Speaker 6: victims in the in the Epstein files.

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Speaker 5: Oh really?

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Speaker 2: He said that Epstein had not trapped to anyone, but himself.

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Speaker 6: Yes, that is correct, and that was a gigantic lie.

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Speaker 6: Todd Blanch said something on Friday that I thought was

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Speaker 6: the most disturbing question. These images include death and sexual abuse.

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Speaker 1: So there are three million more files.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that this was bad.

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Speaker 6: If this was bad, it'll be the weekend he nukes

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Speaker 6: Greenland or something that they released the next three million,

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Speaker 6: because the the recursive irony of this is they release

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Speaker 6: Epstein foul material to take away the fact that they're

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Speaker 6: murdering Americans in this street and what's next? How bad

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Speaker 6: does it get? Well, look, let me talk about consequences

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Speaker 6: though for a minute, because I think, yeah, I think

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Speaker 6: we've we've seen a.

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Speaker 1: Very I just want to pause for one second just

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Speaker 1: to go back to that. So Todd Blanche was on

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Speaker 1: ABC today telling George Stefanoppos the review is over, that

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Speaker 1: they're not releasing anymore because they have death and violence

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Speaker 1: in them.

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Speaker 6: Three million files with death and violence? Are you fucking

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Speaker 6: kidding me? In my mind see a serial killer as

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Speaker 6: well as a fucking child trafficker. I mean, it's it's outrageous.

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Speaker 1: Like in a point a special Master do hearings like

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Speaker 1: explain the emails which they should have done with this

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Speaker 1: stuff too.

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Speaker 6: Go on what has happened here as ironically and bizarrely

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Speaker 6: proven that QAnon was right. The world has a power

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Speaker 6: elite who are who are degenerate. Some of them are pedophiles.

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Speaker 6: They abuse women, they abuse people, they abuse children. But

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Speaker 6: those degenerate elites turned out to a lot of being

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Speaker 6: the Trump administration.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot.

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Speaker 6: We're friends of Trump. You see why that You can

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Speaker 6: now see why. And I think even the MAGA audience

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Speaker 6: and there's a reason they've been kind of muted until

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Speaker 6: late Sunday when they started to get their act together

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Speaker 6: on the pushback, because the indefensible nature of this is

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Speaker 6: something they've been called to defend now for years. They've

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Speaker 6: built a mythology and a legacy around around this idea

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Speaker 6: that we're gonna these files are gonna be chock full

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Speaker 6: of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and George Soros sacrificing.

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Speaker 6: And it turns out it's Jeffrey Epstein and this incredible

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Speaker 6: circle of powerful people who have faced no accountability for this,

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Speaker 6: face no judgment for this, who aren't even shamed, right

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Speaker 6: Musk Elon Musk, Leon Black, all these Howard Luttene. Kevin

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Speaker 6: worsh the new head of the FED. Turns out he's

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Speaker 6: in bed with Jeff Well, he's.

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Speaker 2: At he's at somebody's house in St.

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Speaker 5: Bar's.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and you've gotten the reason.

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Speaker 1: Can I just say one thing about this One of

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Speaker 1: the things that I think is unconscionable about how this

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Speaker 1: stuff was released is that it has totally unproven allegations

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Speaker 1: next to real emails of Elon and Epstein. So it

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Speaker 1: creates a world where you almost question things which you

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Speaker 1: know are legit can take correct.

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Speaker 6: I think some of the most disturbing stuff in here

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Speaker 6: is about Steve Bannon. You we have a multi hour

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Speaker 6: Steve Bannon media training Jeffrey Epstein's so Jeffreys, you can

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Speaker 6: come back into society in some way. We have cozy

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Speaker 6: emails of Bannon and Epstein talking about how they're going

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Speaker 6: to use all these right wing groups that are funded

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Speaker 6: by Russia, which we now know from their contemporaries emails

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Speaker 6: across Europe to impose this nationalist populism. We've got Epstein

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Speaker 6: writing that he's going to help putin establish a new

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Speaker 6: world economic order that is definitionally by the way of

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Speaker 6: folks pro Putin and not pro American. You've got the

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Speaker 6: deep involvement of the Russians in Epstein's operations. You've got

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Speaker 6: Ahood Barak, the Israeli for former Prime Minister Ahod Barock,

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Speaker 6: former Israeli intelligence official. This whole thing shows us that

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Speaker 6: this world that they projected of power elites out there

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Speaker 6: with no accountability for abuse.

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Speaker 5: It's true.

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Speaker 1: What makes me so upset about this whole job is

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Speaker 1: that it was meant to be. The administration felt they

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Speaker 1: had to do it, and they hoped that there was

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Speaker 1: enough part to send stuff to make it a partisan

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Speaker 1: food fight, because the truth is a lot of these

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Speaker 1: people were Democrats originally. I mean, Lutnik invites Epstein to

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Speaker 1: a fundraiser for Hillary. Correct, this is not a partisan exercise,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's.

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Speaker 6: Most of their credit. The Democrats have been like, oh,

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Speaker 6: Bill Clinton's done there, well, he should face the face

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Speaker 6: the music. Plaskin, Kathy, Kathy Rumler. You know, I think

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Speaker 6: some of the most bizarre stuff that we're seeing here

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Speaker 6: is this network of people in this loose ban in orbit.

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Speaker 6: But this nationalist, populist, woke, rejectionist movement, whatever you want

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Speaker 6: to call it. I don't have a name for it.

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Speaker 6: Right now, You've got Nelly Bowles, who is Barry Weiss's

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Speaker 6: wife because Epstein got.

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Speaker 5: I mean she interviewing Barry Weiss just hired.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's worse for you, doctor Peter, who.

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Speaker 6: Has over a thousand emails back and forth with Epstein,

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Speaker 6: including one that was very disturbing that something like like

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Speaker 6: you know, being your friend, but I can't tell a

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Speaker 6: soul about the details.

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Speaker 5: Of your life, right, all right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean that's the kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: should theoretically ruin someone's career. And I think this is

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Speaker 1: going to be the real question of Epstein is does

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Speaker 1: this stuff matter? Do these people get the kind of

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Speaker 1: pass that Donald Trump has gone?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 6: I think legally a lot of this would have to

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Speaker 6: come from the DOJ at this point, and it's not

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Speaker 6: coming from this DOJ.

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Speaker 1: But it's certainly clear that like CBS should not have

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Speaker 1: a person working for them who is a doctor who

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Speaker 1: has a thousand emails with Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 6: Look, the accountability here can come in a couple of forms,

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Speaker 6: and say more legal accountability is one thing that's the

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Speaker 6: most difficult, because this DOJ will not do it. We

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Speaker 6: know why they've been holding this back because these are people.

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Speaker 5: That Trump likes. That is orbit.

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Speaker 6: The second layer is financial and business level accountability. Do

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Speaker 6: not do business with Leon Black. If your company is

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Speaker 6: working with Leon Black, you should not be doing that.

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Speaker 6: And then that goes for a lot of these other

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Speaker 6: people too. Cultural and social accountability is the third, and

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Speaker 6: that's like, you know why Seve Bannon is popular still,

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Speaker 6: It's because he's a great source for a million mainstream reporters.

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Speaker 6: He talks, He talks inside Baseball with a million mainstream

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Speaker 6: reporters every week. Is this the guy you really want

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Speaker 6: to trust? A guy who was who had formed an

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Speaker 6: alliance and was in business with Jeffrey Epstein. As a culture,

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Speaker 6: we try to hold people accountable with shame, but shame

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Speaker 6: doesn't work with everybody. You've got to cost them money.

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Speaker 6: You know, you got to cost them, these people money,

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Speaker 6: You got to cut them off. I mean, I think

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Speaker 6: the war Room is on Serious XM or whatever podcasting

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Speaker 6: network is carrying Steve Bannon.

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Speaker 5: Are you kidding me?

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Speaker 6: You're okay with this guy who was a business partner

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Speaker 6: and a buddy and strategizing with a with a known

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Speaker 6: pedophile and sex trafficker after he was already convicted of

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Speaker 6: being a known pedophile and sex trafficker.

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Speaker 5: Come on, yeh yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a really good point.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we need to start talking about, is

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Speaker 1: what does accountability look like and what you know? Trump

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Speaker 1: got away with it, but most Republicans don't. Right, Matt

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Speaker 1: Gates no longer in office, yep.

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Speaker 6: And there's an interesting thing. It's like the transitive nature

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Speaker 6: of Republicans believing, Okay, if you knew, if you knew

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Speaker 6: a pedophile, you therefore are a pedophile. If Hillary Clinton

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Speaker 6: knew George Soros and George Soros knew Jeffrey Epstein, therefore

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Speaker 6: they are all in the same mix. But Trump gets

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Speaker 6: an exception. A lot of these other people don't. A

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Speaker 6: lot of Republicans live a life that is very fake,

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Speaker 6: very closeted. There are a lot of married Republican members

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Speaker 6: of Congress who are gay as the day is long,

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Speaker 6: and a lot of same thing in the influencer space,

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Speaker 6: in the podcasting space. Of these right wing macho manly men,

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Speaker 6: they have never been held to account for lying to

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Speaker 6: their people about who they are. I think this is

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Speaker 6: in a weird way, so pervasive. It's so widespread, it's

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Speaker 6: so disgustingly distributed across our culture of the people. He

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Speaker 6: drew into this terrible orbit, you know. And it's like,

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Speaker 6: not everybody who emailed with Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile,

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Speaker 6: but in these emails that have been released, they all

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Speaker 6: came after the point that Jeffrey Epstein had been convicted

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Speaker 6: in in Palm Beach and been given a sweetheart deal

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Speaker 6: for mysterious reasons, when he's already known to be a

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Speaker 6: sex trafficker and a pedophile. These people knew this. This

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Speaker 6: wasn't a secret.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about something really important, which I

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Speaker 1: think relates to all of this, but is really the

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Speaker 1: fundamental reason why we're probably going to I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about John Burns Murdoch. Did you read this piece

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Speaker 1: today in the Financial Times? No?

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Speaker 5: I have not seen it.

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Speaker 2: So basically talks.

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Speaker 1: About democratic backsliding and the kind of situation we're in

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Speaker 1: right now. But it says the democratic backsliding has moved

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Speaker 1: at such a rapid pace because Trump is unfettered and

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Speaker 1: doesn't care. And it's just what it says is that

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Speaker 1: the one thing that is probably going to save us

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Speaker 1: knock on Wood is the courts, and I want you

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Speaker 1: to talk about the lower level courts that have done

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Speaker 1: some good checks and bout. I mean, also, if Democrats

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Speaker 1: lose the midterms, we're all fucked. But if Democrats win

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Speaker 1: the midterms, they'll be accountability.

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Speaker 6: I'll be looking for I'll be looking for a cave

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Speaker 6: somewhere in a foreign country.

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Speaker 2: Talk to us about accountability.

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Speaker 6: Look the courts right now, And interestingly, the lower you

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Speaker 6: go in the federal court system, the more even Trump

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Speaker 6: nominees in the federal courts, and certainly many Bush and

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Speaker 6: Reagan nominees in the federal courts, have said no, absolutely not.

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Speaker 6: Trump has relied on the DC Circuit and the Supreme

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Speaker 6: Court to bail them out over and over again. But

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Speaker 6: that doesn't work universally. Right now, that is a very

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Speaker 6: thin line between autocracy and the rule of law. The

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Speaker 6: unwillingness of this administration to obey that law. As we've

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Speaker 6: seen in Minnesota with multiple federal court rulings against the

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Speaker 6: ICE and DHS where they have completely ignored them and

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Speaker 6: run rough shot over them. That is a little more

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Speaker 6: problematic because there's yet to have been a sanction or

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Speaker 6: a penalty or a punishment for the administration from these

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Speaker 6: courts that has caused them any actual legitimate level of

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Speaker 6: hesitation or pain.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but there is the political calculus, like they are.

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Speaker 1: They did return the five year old in the blue

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Speaker 1: fluffy hat, so they do see that they.

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Speaker 2: Will have to still have elections. I mean, they're going

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Speaker 2: to try to do that.

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Speaker 5: They're going to.

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Speaker 6: Try to play screw around with it, but they the

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Speaker 6: states still run their elections. And the problem for Trump

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Speaker 6: canceling the elections, which a lot of people kind of

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Speaker 6: breathlessly talk.

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Speaker 2: About, yeah, which is by can you just talk about

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Speaker 2: cancels the elections?

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Speaker 6: It's not just pick and choose. It's all these Republican

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Speaker 6: members of Congress, all these republic and office holders across

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Speaker 6: the board are delegitimized as well. And then special elections

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Speaker 6: are going to have to be held once this thing

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Speaker 6: goes through the courts, and that's going to be at

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Speaker 6: a point where the voters are freaking furious and they're

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Speaker 6: livid about this, and they know they will get blown

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Speaker 6: out even worse than they're going to get blown out

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Speaker 6: in twenty six right now, and I am never a

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Speaker 6: guy who goes one special election.

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Speaker 5: Is the whole pattern.

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Speaker 6: But now we've seen about forty races across the country

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Speaker 6: in twenty five and twenty six, from local stuff down

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Speaker 6: to state wide stuff. Texas fly this weekend, Texas, you

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Speaker 6: saw a state Senate district overperform seventeen points by seventeen points,

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Speaker 6: a twenty one point net swing, which is crazy town.

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Speaker 6: And by the way, the type of Democrat who won,

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Speaker 6: he's like a machinist union official.

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Speaker 5: He's a blue.

444
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 6: Collar kind of guy. He wasn't out there like my

445
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 6: eight hundred page plan on tech reform. No, he was

446
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 6: out there like these people are crazy. I'm not going

447
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 6: to let it keep going. We're going to fix it.

448
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 6: We're going to make your jobs better. We're going to

449
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 6: stop this insanity. If that scales up. If I was

450
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 6: a Republican right now, we've even seen seats like like

451
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 6: cook political moving Florida from from solid Republican to.

452
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 2: Likely and then that makes you so happy, Florida.

453
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 6: Movie even a notch like that crazy.

454
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 2: I just want to take a minute here, because you

455
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 2: know you and I are friends.

456
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,360
Speaker 1: You're so happy about the David Jolly talk us through

457
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: like Florida, because I mean, look, there is a democratic

458
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: mayor in Miami.

459
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 5: For the first time in a jillion years.

460
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty one years, I think. So talk us through

461
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: how excited you are about Florida because it's cute.

462
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 6: Look, I'm still I'm still a jaded skeptic about my

463
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 6: home state because I helped build a machine that ran

464
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 6: it now for the last five years. Sorry, folks, but

465
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 6: right now Hispanics in Florida, who went overwhelmingly for Trump

466
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 6: have broken back the other way. The Cubans, who have

467
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 6: been the loyal, most loyal Maga voters there are Trump

468
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 6: is in the absolutely at this moment preparing to deport

469
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 6: three hundred and fifty thousand Cubans back to Cuba. These

470
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 6: aren't voters, but they are family members of voters, and

471
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 6: those people are panicking. You got a member of Congress

472
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 6: down there, Alvira Maria Salazar, Republican, who is now one

473
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 6: of the only Republicans like attacking Trump.

474
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 5: You must stop this. This is wrong. You were insane, sir.

475
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: Latinos for Trump, right, isn't she the head.

476
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 5: Of No Yeah?

477
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, but actually, by the way, the Latinos for Trump guy,

478
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 6: the executive director, was just deported this week. What ironies

479
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 6: abound but Florida is starting to slip with in the South,

480
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 6: with Hispanics, middle class. Florida is taking an absolute beat

481
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 6: down economically. The housing market here is collapsing. In North Florida,

482
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 6: You've got farmers, soybeans, cotton, hogs, everything else. They're not

483
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,719
Speaker 6: selling their products overseas anymore, and they're finally figuring out

484
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 6: who's to blame. Does that mean Florida's going to go blue?

485
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 5: No? Does it mean they have to spend money and

486
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 5: do work. Yes.

487
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 6: The Republican primary for governor has now got like five

488
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 6: people in it, and they're all tearing each other limb

489
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 6: from limb. The front runner who is endorsed by Trump

490
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 6: Byron degenerate, Byron Donalds is a degenerate, and that story

491
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 6: will come out will people will go, oh, of course,

492
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 6: And I will tell you something about the Republican base

493
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 6: because I know these people. Even though the guys endorsed

494
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 6: by Trump Byron Donalds is an African American and north

495
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 6: of by four is basically Alabama, and I see how

496
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 6: that works out.

497
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's important also to mention that

498
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: in Florida and in a lot of red states, you

499
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: do see blue governors sometimes make it.

500
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 2: You know, we've seen in Louisiana. We've seen it.

501
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: I mean not right now, but we've seen in Kentucky,

502
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: North Carolina. Red states will elect blue governors.

503
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 6: It does happen, and statewide officials in red states. Florida

504
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 6: is a rare exception in a lot of ways because

505
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 6: we haven't had a Democratic statewide official for twenty years.

506
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 6: But the machine that was built down here, built under

507
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 6: in the Bush era, that was built down here. DeSantis

508
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 6: has been a spectacularly bad governor for Republican morale. He

509
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 6: and Trump are at war still to this day. He

510
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 6: and his wife are being investigated for a forty million

511
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 6: dollar fraud that's going to trickle down to other Republicans

512
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 6: as well. The battle to replace him is turning into,

513
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 6: as I mentioned to a six or seven way food fight.

514
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 6: All these things do not make it inevitable for a

515
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 6: blue candidate to win. But if you're David Jolly or

516
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 6: you're alex Vinman running state wide, you know what, roll

517
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 6: the dice. Roll the damn dice. This is your year

518
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 6: to roll the dice. If you think you're a long

519
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 6: shot and the state is generically R plus eight, which

520
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 6: it is this year, You've got a chance. And that's

521
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 6: what's happening in Texas. I mean, look, tall Rico has

522
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 6: a real chance to win in Texas if they have

523
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 6: named Keim Paxson's the nominee, and I think Maxon will

524
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 6: be the nominee. I don't think Tallarico could beat Corny,

525
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 6: but I think you can sure as hell beat Packson.

526
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 6: If you see a statewide Democra to emerge in any

527
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 6: big red state, any red state for that matter, or

528
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 6: a medium sized North Carolina is gonna elect a Democratic

529
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 6: senator this year. If you see that start to happen,

530
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 6: there is an inevitable process that begins where the money

531
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 6: flow in terms of campaign donations starts to change. Where

532
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 6: suddenly the lobbyist who would have gotten his people together

533
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 6: to write a million dollars worth of checks for somebody goes, hey, listen,

534
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 6: I know I love you, man. Trump's a great guy,

535
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 6: but you know, John Smith is the Democratic senator from

536
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 6: here now, and I got to I gotta make sure

537
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 6: he's good with us so he doesn't do anything to.

538
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 5: Us in the in the what cheated process.

539
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 6: And if Democrats start to win these seats, by the way,

540
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 6: play hardball.

541
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: Say more.

542
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 5: Let's put this way.

543
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 6: When Kevin McCarthy was Speaker, he went to lobbyists all

544
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 6: over d Seed and like, you give the need Democrats money,

545
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 6: I'm gonna fuck you over. I'm gonna take away your appropriations.

546
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 6: That is the kind of hardball that needs to be

547
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 6: played here. That is the kind of like you come

548
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 6: to me with some maga maga. You know, lobbyists, you're

549
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 6: not coming to mind office. Come to me with some

550
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 6: with some I find out you've donated to to you know,

551
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 6: Democratic congressional districts in my Republican congressional competitors in my state.

552
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 6: We're gonna have an issue. Hardball is real. It exists

553
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 6: behind the behind the nice cities of DC, and Democrats

554
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 6: when they take back the House are going to have

555
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 6: to learn to play it quickly. And that is going

556
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 6: to in part be choking off the money that feeds

557
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 6: the maga machine from these corporate interests around the country.

558
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 6: I mean, they need to call Jeff Bezos and Mark

559
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 6: Zuckerberg and Elon and the rest of them are like,

560
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 6: all right, motherfuckers, here's how it's going to go from

561
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 6: now on.

562
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 5: Your appropriations are going to grind to a hall.

563
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 6: None of the ship you want is going to happen,

564
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 6: and we're going to pass a National Data center ban.

565
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 5: How about that? They got to play.

566
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: Hardball, Rick Wilson.

567
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 5: I'm here to advise as always.

568
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 2: National Data center ban. I like it.

569
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: Christopher Mattatos is a reporter of for outlets like The

570
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: Huffington Post, The Guardian and ms now. He is also

571
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: the author of To Catch a Fascist, The Fight to

572
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: Expose the Radical Right.

573
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics, Christopher.

574
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for having me, Molly.

575
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 5: How you doing.

576
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: You know, I remember the days of you at.

577
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: The huff Post. We're just all getting older and older,

578
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: I know. So talk us through To Catch a Fascist?

579
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: How you got involved in this and sort of what

580
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: this looks like the shadow war waged to defend what's

581
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: left of democracy.

582
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 7: Back in twenty seventeen, like you said, when I was

583
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 7: a reporter at huff Post, I found myself in Charlottesville,

584
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 7: Virginia for the United the Right rally, which obviously was

585
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 7: you know, the largest white supremacist gathering in generation, and

586
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 7: died with the neo Nazi killing a counter protester driving

587
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 7: his car into a crowd, killing heather Higher. When I

588
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 7: got back to New York, my editor at the time,

589
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 7: Woudio Paulgreen, told me that this was my beat now,

590
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 7: that I was going to be covering the far right,

591
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 7: and that kind of started this decade long journey to

592
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 7: figure out who was in this kind of insurgent fascist movement,

593
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 7: this kind of like resurrected invisible Empire, like trying to

594
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 7: recreate the clans invisible Empire. There were so many secretive

595
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 7: white supremacist groups and I was trying to figure out

596
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 7: who was in them. Very quickly I learned that the

597
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,719
Speaker 7: people doing the best research into these groups was Antifa.

598
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 7: It was, you know, this kind of radical underground network

599
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 7: of anarchists and socialists and communists who often deployed spies

600
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 7: into white supremacist groups, into Nazi groups to gather intelligence.

601
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 7: And over the course of the last ten years, these

602
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 7: anti fascists identified thousands of pseudonymous American Nazis, revealing them

603
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 7: to be you know, people in positions of power, politicians, pastors,

604
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 7: police officers, professors, teachers, and in the process, these anti

605
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 7: fascist spies ended up destroying multiple fascist groups that belonged

606
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 7: to the so called al right.

607
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: It's interesting we talk about out antifa because the right

608
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: is obsessed and the Trump administration obsessed with Antifa. They

609
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: believe it's like a huge organization with the headquarters and

610
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: of this and of that.

611
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: So I'd love you to define what is antifa.

612
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 7: Yes, So there's so many misapprehensions about antifa, and no

613
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 7: one can really tell you what it is, and no

614
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 7: one in America really knew what it was before twenty seventeen.

615
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 7: You know, at the end of twenty seventeen, Webster Dictionary

616
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 7: added antifa into his dictionary. Oxford Dictionary shortlisted it for

617
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 7: word of the Year, and the reason for that was

618
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 7: because this like in bold and far right kept showing

619
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 7: up on the streets of America and we're getting punched.

620
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 7: And most people associate antifa with Nazi punching, which is

621
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 7: a part of it. So the way I define antifa

622
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 7: is basically, it is a underground, decentralized subculture or network

623
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 7: of radical leftists dedicated to destroying the far right by

624
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 7: any means necessary. And they subscribe to a few basic tenants,

625
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 7: which is that the far right fascists need to be

626
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 7: confronted in the streets, sometimes violently, that fascists should have

627
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,959
Speaker 7: no platform to speak or organize, so that means, you know,

628
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 7: trying to get their permits revoked, to hold a rally,

629
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 7: trying to get them deplatform from social media for violating

630
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 7: terms of service. And then finally, the like final really

631
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 7: important tenet of kind of militant anti fascism or antifa

632
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 7: is that the state and law enforcement cannot be trusted

633
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 7: in this fight. So they do not believe that cops

634
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 7: can be trusted to fight fascists. They see police kind

635
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 7: of invested, inherently invested in like a white supremacist project.

636
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 7: And you know, I think antifa the word itself is

637
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 7: obviously just a shortening of anti fascists, and obviously I

638
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 7: think we all hopefully listening to this would consider ourselves

639
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 7: anti fascist. But antifa itself, I think refers to this

640
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 7: very specific kind of militant tradition that grew out of

641
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 7: the punk scene essentially in the eighties and nineties in America.

642
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: But there's also a research component, and that is what

643
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: you're talking about here, is the sort of anti fascist research.

644
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: What did you find that was surprising to you when

645
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: you looked into this world?

646
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 7: Basically, you have of this network of activists doing some

647
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 7: of the most remarkable journalism in the country, even though

648
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 7: it's not called journalism, you know, not recognized as journalism

649
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 7: by the mainstream press. These are anonymous activists and they

650
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 7: stay anonymous to prevent reprisals from the far right, to

651
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 7: protect themselves from violence. But they started doing this work

652
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 7: mostly because they had brushes with fascists in their communities.

653
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,479
Speaker 7: There was an anti fascist activist I talked to whose

654
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 7: good friend lost a family member in the massacre at

655
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 7: the l Pass and Walmart, and that's what started her

656
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 7: doing this work. But you know, the MAGA and Trump

657
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 7: have created this hysterical caricature like you mentioned of antifa, right,

658
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 7: this kind of like highly regimented army of black clad

659
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 7: radicals that are going to like bombshit and like you know,

660
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 7: are anti Christian and want to turn your kids tran

661
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 7: and on all this stuff. You know, in reality, they

662
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 7: are everyday Americans. They are soccer moms, they are rednecks.

663
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: They're researchers largely right, They're largely researchers.

664
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 7: And what they do is they do open source intelligence investigations.

665
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 7: It's basically the digital equivalent of ripping the wide hood

666
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 7: off of a Klansman. They look at all of these

667
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 7: fascists that hide behind user names and avatars online and

668
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 7: figure out who they are. A big part of what

669
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 7: they did was use spies, and this is the main

670
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 7: characters in my book are anti fascist spies that go

671
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 7: undercover into this new generation of fascist groups in the

672
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 7: Trump era and gather all of this intelligence. They you know,

673
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 7: secret they record secret audio, they take covert photos, they

674
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 7: take photos of license plates. But one of the most

675
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 7: important things they do is that they acquire hundreds and

676
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 7: thousands of gigabytes of data of private messages that these

677
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 7: Nazi groups send to each other, and then they post

678
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 7: those messages in an open source database on why on

679
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 7: a website called unicorn Riot, which is doing fantastic job

680
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 7: on the ground in Minneapolis right now, by the way.

681
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 7: And then anti fascist researchers go through these messages to

682
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 7: look for clues and morsels that can be used to

683
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 7: identify these Nazis. And what they end up finding is

684
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 7: that a lot of these Nazis are in positions of power.

685
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 7: A lot of these Nazis are involved with the Republican Party,

686
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 7: you know. Essentially, I think what antifa and anti fascists

687
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 7: find out before anyone, or you know, I think raise

688
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 7: alarm about before anyone, is that America is headed in

689
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 7: a very dark trajectory.

690
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: What are they doing in Minnesota?

691
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 7: So anti fascists activists across the country right now are

692
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 7: monitoring what's happening in Minnesota, and for a long time,

693
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 7: like I said, for the past decade, have been involved

694
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 7: in identifying this new generation of fascists. Right now, they've

695
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 7: repurposed their investigative skills to identify ICE agents. So they

696
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 7: are involved, actively involved in figuring out, you know, taking

697
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 7: the masks off Trump's secret police that are terrorizing places

698
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 7: like Minneapolis. I have a story coming out this week

699
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 7: that identifies an ICE agent seeing Pepper spraying a protester

700
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 7: at point blank range while he's on the ground. That

701
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 7: identity came through anti fascist research. And they're doing this

702
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 7: to create accountability for being an ICE. They want to

703
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 7: create a social cost for being an ICE agent and

704
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 7: basically tell ICE agents that if you don't leave this

705
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 7: secret police force now, you will never be able to

706
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 7: like wash away this shame like you will be name

707
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,439
Speaker 7: and chained for the rest of your life for having been.

708
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 2: A part of this, it doesn't work.

709
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 7: I think it works. Basically. Antifa, you know, destroyed multiple

710
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 7: fascist groups by depriving them of the anonymity, depriving them

711
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 7: of the ability to work in the dark. Of course,

712
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 7: like we are in this mask off moment in fascism

713
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 7: right right now, where what supremacists are in power, so

714
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 7: in a way, like the ability to dock someone to

715
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 7: create a consequence for being a Nazi is diminished. But

716
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 7: you know, it's important to create that social came and

717
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 7: preserve that's social costs, and to warn your neighbors about

718
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 7: who in your community is a fascist and might want

719
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 7: to harm them. So I think the work is still

720
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 7: very important. And I think especially right now with identifying

721
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 7: ICE agents and figuring out who this secret police force

722
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 7: is coming to your cippy's, there's already growing opposition to

723
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 7: ICE and support for the phrase abolish Ice. You know,

724
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 7: that's reaching record highs. So I think anti fascist work

725
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 7: that leverages that growing on popularity is important, and I

726
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:31,919
Speaker 7: think it's good.

727
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's obviously very good, and it's very necessary.

728
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: Am I dumb?

729
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: But wouldn't this be the job of the FBI and

730
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: a normal America?

731
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 5: Yeah?

732
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 2: I mean because isn't this what.

733
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: The FBI is supposed to be doing, like people do

734
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: crimes figuring out, Yeah.

735
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 7: I mean totally. I mean, you know, there's plenty of

736
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 7: examples of the FBI going undercover into white supremacist groups.

737
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 7: You know, I think for from the military anti fascist perspective,

738
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 7: the FBI is you know, never going to do enough,

739
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 7: you know, especially under the second Trump administration. You know,

740
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 7: they are certainly not prioritizing going after white supremacist groups,

741
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 7: and there's been reporting to that effect. What the FBI

742
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 7: is being directed to do with the DOJ is being

743
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 7: directed to do is to go after Antifa, to go

744
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 7: after anti fascists. You know, in September, the Trump administration

745
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 7: claimed to designate Antifa a quote domestic terrorist organization, which

746
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 7: is absurd. There is no federal statute by which to

747
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 7: declare any group of domestic terrorist organization. And moreover, Antifa

748
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 7: isn't even an organization, like you said earlier, there's no headquarters,

749
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 7: there's no leaders, there's no like rich benefactors giving it money.

750
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 7: So yeah, you know, like on a normal timeline, sure, yeah,

751
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 7: maybe the FBI should be in charge of this. The

752
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 7: argument my book makes is that over the last ten years,

753
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 7: even under the Biden administration, I think the work that

754
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 7: Antifa is doing, going under cover into what supremacist groups

755
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,240
Speaker 7: and doxing its members did more to destabilize those groups

756
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 7: than law enforcement.

757
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: Right, No, for sure, for sure.

758
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: And there's like is the government incompetent or is the

759
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: government corrupt?

760
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 6: Right?

761
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 5: Right? Right?

762
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 7: Or in this case, you know, is are these white

763
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 7: supremacist groups do they share the same mission as the

764
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 7: Trump administration?

765
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: Right?

766
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: Which they do for sure?

767
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 7: And this question they do.

768
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: So I don't want you to docs anyone, but I

769
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: want you to give us sort of a character, either

770
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 1: who is out of the game or who.

771
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: You feel comfortable talking about.

772
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 7: One of the main characters of the book is an

773
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 7: anti fascist named Vincent who goes undercover into the Nazi

774
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 7: group Patriot Front, and he spends about six months in

775
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 7: Patriot Front basically doing method acting, you know, pretends to

776
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 7: be a Nazi, and he goes on their pikes. He

777
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 7: goes on their missions, the vandalists omissions, He is their meetings.

778
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 7: He gains enough trust of this group that they name

779
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 7: him the official photographer, so he is taking photos for

780
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 7: their propaganda and kind of you know, stealing away those

781
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 7: photos and photos of their faces, and then you know,

782
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 7: after about five or six months, his infiltration leads to

783
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 7: anti fascists acquiring four hundred and forty gigabytes worth of

784
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 7: messages that Patriot Front members are sending to each other.

785
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 7: These messages end up being put online and anti fascist

786
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 7: researchers across the country use them to ultimately identify about

787
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 7: eighty members of Patriot Front. Ultimately there is an effort,

788
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 7: you know, Vincent, I call him Vincent the character. He

789
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 7: remains anonymous, but Patriot Front ends up figuring out who

790
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 7: he is and files a lawsuit against him, which was

791
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 7: just dismissed last week. But I think stories like Vincent,

792
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 7: there are many stories like Vincent's, many stories of people

793
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 7: that very bravely were confronting the far right in their communities,

794
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 7: kind of operating under this axiom of we protect us

795
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 7: right that like the government ote that law enforcement isn't

796
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 7: going to protect us, it is up to us to

797
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 7: stop this. And I think that ethos is exactly what

798
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 7: we're seeing on the streets of Minneapolis right now, where

799
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 7: the community came together and realized that these masked police

800
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 7: being deployed. I would argue for a fascist project, for

801
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 7: a project of ethnic cleansing. You know, no one's going

802
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 7: to stop them. The police Department's not going to stop them.

803
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 7: The Democratic Party is not doing anything to stop them.

804
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 7: So it's up to the community to stop them. And

805
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 7: you know, what they did, what Minneapolis was doing, bears

806
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 7: a striking resemblance to what anti fascists were doing in

807
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 7: the first Trump administration with fascist groups on the streets.

808
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 7: They were monitoring them, they were you know, identifying them.

809
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 7: They were pressuring venues and hotels not to host them,

810
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 7: they were doing noise demos. They're basically creating it, like

811
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 7: I said, creating a social cost for being a part

812
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 7: of this and saying you are not welcome here. You

813
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 7: are terrorizing this community, and there needs to be shame

814
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 7: for what you're a part of.

815
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's a really good point, and

816
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: I think like that is ultimately the goal here, especially

817
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: one it comes to what's happened? What are you seeing

818
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: with these groups right now? Because there's been such a

819
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: sea change even from when you started in twenty seventeen.

820
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: They are now the mainstream. So are they more hidden

821
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: less hidden? Interacting with the government like what do you

822
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: think the trajectory is for these sort of people who

823
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: have been under the radar for a long time.

824
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean there was like this explosion, you know,

825
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 7: obviously of fascist groups at the beginning of the first

826
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 7: Trump administration, you know, secretive groups, and you know, in retrospect,

827
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 7: I think those groups kind of acted like a vanguard,

828
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 7: like shock troops of the for the Magro project. They

829
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 7: were they were pushing the Overton window open wider and

830
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 7: wider for the GOP to accept more and more vile

831
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 7: ideas and like explicit white nationalists ideas. You know, it's

832
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 7: interesting when you look back at the stolen chats that

833
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 7: Antifa obtained from these Nazi groups, you see them using

834
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 7: all these terms that the Trump administration is using now.

835
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 7: For example, well you can see the moment the word

836
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 7: remigration arrives from Europe to America in Nazi chats. Now,

837
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 7: remigration is a term you hear all the time from

838
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 7: Stephen Miller and the Trump administration. Remigration is just a

839
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 7: European euphemism for ethnic cleansing. It's very explicit. You also

840
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 7: see the arrival of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory in

841
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 7: Nazi chats. In twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen, you know,

842
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 7: chats obtained by Antifa, and then a few years later

843
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 7: you're seeing the rights talk about the Great Replacement all

844
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 7: the time. So a lot of these fascist groups that

845
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 7: were involved in this project in popularizing these terms, you know,

846
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 7: have since disbanded in a way, you know, they're no

847
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 7: longer useful. And I draw this comparison to the First

848
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 7: and Second Clan. You know, the first plan was created

849
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 7: to destroy Reconstruction, and when Reconstruction was abandoned, they kind

850
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 7: of disbanded, you know, they exchanged the anonymity of the

851
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 7: hood for the anonymity of the lynch mob. I think

852
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 7: there's a similar dynamic at play right now. When fascists

853
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 7: wear they want to create a world in which they

854
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 7: won't need to wear masks at all, and we are

855
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 7: kind of living in that mask off moment, and I

856
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 7: think it's important for us to consider a world in

857
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 7: which ICE agents are comfortable not wearing masks. Part of

858
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 7: the anti fascist project right now is stopping that world

859
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 7: from being created. So that's a very long winded explanation

860
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 7: of saying a lot of the fascist groups that I

861
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 7: document in my book aren't as active anymore as because

862
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 7: they don't need.

863
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 2: To be Christopher. That was so upset.

864
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: Even Booboo doesn't like it. Thank you, thank you for

865
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 1: joining us.

866
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 7: Thanks so much for having me by.

867
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 5: No moment, Rick Wilson, is it that time?

868
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: It's that time?

869
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 5: I love that time.

870
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: What is your moment of fuckery?

871
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 6: My moment of fuckery is that Donald Trump's pillaging of

872
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 6: the American treasury continues unabated this week, with him suing

873
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 6: the IRS for ten billion dollars because an IRS official

874
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 6: leaked to tax information at some point. Yeah, look, the

875
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 6: IRS should not leak tax information. Now, it's a crime.

876
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 6: The guy that did it has already been punished for it.

877
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 6: But Trump suing the IRS for ten billion dollars, which

878
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 6: the IRS will give him. They will settle and say, yes, sir,

879
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 6: here's your money. Yeah, that is just flat fricking robbing

880
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 6: the US taxpayer. What harm was done by that leak

881
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 6: to Trump?

882
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 5: Nothing? He's in office, then something for being in office.

883
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: They may have actually, he may have missed the statute

884
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: of limitations on it.

885
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 6: Maybe maybe I'm I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not

886
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 6: positive on that. But here's the thing. Trump is going

887
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 6: to threaten to sue a lot of people in the

888
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 6: coming weeks and months.

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Speaker 2: Are you listening, ABC?

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00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 5: Yeah? Are you listening? And Michael Wolfe again.

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00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 6: You know in ninety nine point nine nine percent of

892
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 6: all Trump lawsuits are meant these days to make money

893
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 6: for him.

894
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 5: This IRS lawsuit is no exception.

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00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 6: It's a pure corrupt ca robbery of the American taxpayer.

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00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 2: Correct, Rick Wilson.

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00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 6: Molly Drug Fast as always, I'll see you next week.

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Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in Monday, Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics

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00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: make sense of.

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00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: All this chaos.

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00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a

903
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation going.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.