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Speaker 1: M h and welcome back to another edition all the

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Speaker 1: Smoke Jack. We got a good one today, Bro Legendary,

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Speaker 1: got a good one today. Someone I've been harassing trying

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Speaker 1: to tell you, but on his asphalt town them we

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Speaker 1: need you, we need you, and we keep passing each other.

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Speaker 1: But he finally came out here for something. I found

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Speaker 1: out he was coming out here for something, and he

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Speaker 1: blessed us with his time, two time NBA Champ, twelve

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Speaker 1: time All Star, one of the greatest point guards slash players,

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Speaker 1: the original Z to ever play this game, the real

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Speaker 1: zke Yes, the one and only, one and only Isaiah Thomas.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for the time, man, Thank you for coming

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Speaker 1: through ways always. Uh. There was a rumor just recently

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Speaker 1: that you were going to sign with the Suns on

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Speaker 1: the management side. It came out and then what's the

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Speaker 1: latest with that situation. So I'm on the board of UWM,

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Speaker 1: which is matt ishpe is little scolding company. And you

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Speaker 1: know it's crazy. You have the two biggest mortgage companies

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Speaker 1: in the US in Detroit, UWM and Rocket Mortgage. So

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Speaker 1: I'm on the board. He and I've been friends for

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Speaker 1: a long time. Advise him on a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: He advised me on a couple of things business wise,

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Speaker 1: and we have been you know, really looking for a

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Speaker 1: team since uh twenty twenty one. NTT wanted to get

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Speaker 1: into the business. Um, his brother wants on the baseball team.

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Speaker 1: Matt wanted to own the basketball team. So you know,

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Speaker 1: when the story came out, it was only natural that

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Speaker 1: they put us together. You know, advising, still talking, still consulting.

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Speaker 1: I don't have any plans of being in a front

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Speaker 1: office position ever. Again in terms of running basketball operations. Now,

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Speaker 1: when you talk about advising, consulting, ownership, those type of things,

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Speaker 1: that's probably where I fit in a you know, not necessarily.

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Speaker 1: I got too much going on. I don't see myself

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Speaker 1: sitting in the office day to day running basketball ops again.

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Speaker 1: But from an advising consulting standpoint, that is on the table,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we'll see what happens. Just obviously basketball

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Speaker 1: is what you're known for, but now you're known for

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Speaker 1: just your entrepreneurialism is that a word, or entrepreneurial ship.

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Speaker 1: I mean doing very well mogul, Yeah, cannabis space, champagne space,

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Speaker 1: real estate, private equity. Business of basketball wasn't very big

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Speaker 1: you played, because it wasn't very big when we played,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Now it's it's the norm.

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Speaker 1: But you've been able to really capitalize off the court

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Speaker 1: with investments and in the business space. Can you walk

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Speaker 1: us through, uh, first and foremost your champagn because you

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Speaker 1: said that's what's keeping you youthful. So um, fortunately enough

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Speaker 1: for me. Uh. You know, basketball in sport has given

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Speaker 1: me the opportunity to really, you know, expand globally. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the name of my firm is Isaiah International, and

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Speaker 1: we do a lot of business outside of the United States.

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Speaker 1: So when you talk about the champagne space, Um, we

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Speaker 1: got two hundred acres over in the Old region of Champagne,

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Speaker 1: which is the oldest region of Champagne, with the largest

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Speaker 1: black owned champagne company in the US, largest first pressure

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Speaker 1: of champagne in the US. And there's three presses of

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Speaker 1: the great first press, second press, third press, and as

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Speaker 1: you know, the first press is the best press. We

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Speaker 1: also are known for of zero and low sugar champaigns.

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Speaker 1: Why did we want zero and low sugar champagne's being

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Speaker 1: former athletes? Right, Most people who drink champagne immediately complain

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Speaker 1: of a headache. So you ask the question why, right,

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Speaker 1: it's the high sugar content in the high soul fites, right,

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Speaker 1: So we wanted to bring something back to the US,

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Speaker 1: not only back to the US, but back to you know,

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Speaker 1: all people who love champagne, drink champagne, promote champagne, but

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Speaker 1: it's not theirs. So what we wanted to do is

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Speaker 1: bring you the best of the best. And my ECON

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Speaker 1: teacher told me a long time ago that you know,

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Speaker 1: if you if you got the highest quality and you

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Speaker 1: can give it to the customer and consumer at the

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Speaker 1: lowest price, then long term you're gonna win the game.

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Speaker 1: So it's not the best marketed, it's the you know,

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Speaker 1: the most, it's the best, highest quality. And we're out

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Speaker 1: here now getting ready on board and a couple of

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Speaker 1: the Hyatt hotels. That's why I'm out here. So Crilon

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Speaker 1: Champagne the number one rated zero low sugar, first person

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Speaker 1: great champagne in the United States, Black owned and also

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Speaker 1: supported by the four hundred and fifty NBA players on

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Speaker 1: the NBPA side. So shout out to the NBPA for

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, helping and sticking with former

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Speaker 1: players and marketing anybody else in marketing. Now we got

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Speaker 1: some black black owns, so it's good to get that

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Speaker 1: in there. They might have the all time most successful

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Speaker 1: backcourt ever Microwave, super successful, Zeke and Joe d them three. Like,

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Speaker 1: if you wanted to model yourself about some basketball players

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Speaker 1: that took after bandage of their career and after basketball,

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Speaker 1: y'all might have the top basketball I mean backcourt in

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Speaker 1: history as far business wise. Thank you that seriously, if

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Speaker 1: you think about it, you ain't lying if you think

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Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, I hadn't thought about it that way.

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Speaker 1: But that's why we own this show. Ye that's y'all.

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Speaker 1: That's why y'all. Can you think about that? Well, thank

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Speaker 1: you for that. And you know, and you know we

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Speaker 1: if you notice when we was describing ourselves when we

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Speaker 1: were playing um, the media always gave us the physically

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Speaker 1: tough label, but we always described ourselves as mentally tough.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's like, you know, you you win with

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Speaker 1: smart people. You know, you win with people who don't

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Speaker 1: make mistakes. Uh, you know who I understand how to

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Speaker 1: you know, operate, work within the system, game plan, you know,

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Speaker 1: make sacrifices and then you you try to go out

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Speaker 1: and win the basketball game with it, and fortunately enough

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Speaker 1: for us, we had a lot of players that that

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Speaker 1: wanted to do that and did it at a very

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Speaker 1: high level. You talk a little bit about the cannabis space.

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Speaker 1: That's something that Jack and I are both in and

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Speaker 1: and and it obviously, you know, this push was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the push for the minority population in that space,

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Speaker 1: and we're still very small percentage of the population that's

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Speaker 1: making that up. But can you talk to us, but

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Speaker 1: what you guys are doing in the cannabis space. So

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Speaker 1: I'm chairman CEO of a publicly traded company called One

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Speaker 1: World Products where we cultivate and grow in Colombia. Now again,

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Speaker 1: my firm is Isaiah International, and we do a lot

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Speaker 1: of business, most of our businesses outside of the United

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Speaker 1: States because outside of the United States, I classify as

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Speaker 1: an American. Inside the United States, classify as black, and

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Speaker 1: you get the minority tax. And we got a lot

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Speaker 1: of white folks in here today who travel, you know,

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Speaker 1: and when you travel outside of the United States your passport,

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Speaker 1: you know, you white folks say they they're American. But

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Speaker 1: the only time they say they're white is when they

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Speaker 1: come back into the United States. The only time we

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Speaker 1: say we black is when we come into the United States.

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Speaker 1: Outside of the United States, there are no minority classifications

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Speaker 1: in terms of business so one world products. Why do

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Speaker 1: we choose to cultivate and grow in Colombia the same

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Speaker 1: reason we chow was France for Champagne, the soil, the sun,

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Speaker 1: and also the farmers and the workers that you work

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Speaker 1: with in terms of the indigenous farmers and growers Columbia.

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Speaker 1: Right now we've partnered with the Afro Columbia community. There

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Speaker 1: been granted one point two million acres of land to

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Speaker 1: grow industrial hymp. So when industrial hemp space and we're

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Speaker 1: also in the THHC in CBD space there also when

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Speaker 1: a process I got a couple of confidentiality agreement signed,

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Speaker 1: so I got to keep my fingers a cross. But

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Speaker 1: when a process of onboarding two of the larger brands

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Speaker 1: here in the UA in the US who sells CBD

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Speaker 1: and THHC products. Now we can't distribute THHC products across

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Speaker 1: the across the border yet, but internationally, as you know,

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Speaker 1: the borders have opened up in other countries, so we

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Speaker 1: can move THHC and CBD products into other countries. The

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Speaker 1: US will open up th HC wise, it has opened

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Speaker 1: up CBD Y, so we're able to move product into

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Speaker 1: the into the US and the CBD and the CBD

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Speaker 1: oils standpoint. The industrial hemp side, we work with the

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Speaker 1: automotive industry. Just signed an agreement with Stilantis and Flexingate

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Speaker 1: to produce a part on the jeep Wrangler that they've

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Speaker 1: given us that we in the automobile space they want

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Speaker 1: to reduce their carbon footprint. Hemp is the natural carbon

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Speaker 1: sync so it takes carbon out of the air. And

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Speaker 1: what we've done in that company one world product is

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Speaker 1: that we position ourselves not only to be the largest

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Speaker 1: supplier of industrial hemp, but if you if you think

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Speaker 1: of how can I put it. Most companies are set

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Speaker 1: up to deal with corporations. We set ourselves up to

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Speaker 1: deal with industry changes. So as as plastics are moved

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Speaker 1: out of the industry, you're looking for the next raw

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Speaker 1: material that will be infused into the industry. And we

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Speaker 1: see industrial hemp being the replacement for plastics and also

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Speaker 1: reducing the carbon footprint. UM you both of you know

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Speaker 1: the discovery of the indocannabinoid system that was discovered in

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Speaker 1: the nineties. Had we known about it when we was playing.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we would have treated ourselves much differently. You

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Speaker 1: know they when you talk about CBD and THHC. The

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Speaker 1: two things that it does for athletes, right, reduces inflammation

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Speaker 1: and help you sleep. That's all we need. No swelling,

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Speaker 1: no pain. I can go to sleep, you know. So,

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Speaker 1: I think you know the plant is going to change

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Speaker 1: the way medicine is prescribed. They're now teaching in medical

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Speaker 1: school now about the indocannabinoid system CB one, CB two receptors,

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Speaker 1: and the more we discover the benefits of the plant,

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Speaker 1: the more it will be used. Now you hit an

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Speaker 1: important topic in terms of you know, classified as black

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Speaker 1: in this country getting business opportunities. We didn't get it

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Speaker 1: on the first blush, to first go around. Now that

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Speaker 1: federal and state still having come together in terms of

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Speaker 1: their laws. In the dispensary model that's set up here

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Speaker 1: in the States, you can only cultivate and grow from

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Speaker 1: You can only buy from the cultivators within the state,

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Speaker 1: but you can cross state lines. So it's a it's

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Speaker 1: an antiquated business model that's been set up here. We

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Speaker 1: do believe that it will have to expand and open

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Speaker 1: up and once it expands like any product, and it's

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Speaker 1: you can globally by it, buy it, and supply it.

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Speaker 1: We see ourselves in Columbia being a unique trade partner

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Speaker 1: with the US, probably the biggest trade partner with the

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Speaker 1: US on this side of the equator. Uh. Most of

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Speaker 1: your flowers that you get come from Columbia here in

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Speaker 1: the US. Your coffee or bananas, a lot of fruit.

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Speaker 1: So as a trade partner, Columbia is one of your

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Speaker 1: biggest trade partners. Columbia is projected to to supply forty

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Speaker 1: four percent of the world's cannabis supply only because of

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Speaker 1: the geography and also because you can turn your land

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Speaker 1: over three times a year. So again that's that's what

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Speaker 1: we do in one world products in terms of So

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Speaker 1: I'm in the champagne space, uh, and I'm in the

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Speaker 1: cannabis space and my kids love it. Hey, that is

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Speaker 1: the plug. That is as though, let's go back man,

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Speaker 1: I'm a west side of you. No, you're a west

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Speaker 1: side absolutely. Uh. Talk about young Zeke growing up on

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Speaker 1: the West side of Chicago. It was it was, it

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Speaker 1: was hard and as a matter of fact, you would

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Speaker 1: you would just uh there. I think about a year

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Speaker 1: ago he was running around and old block. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: got the calls, right, I was like, nah, I call,

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Speaker 1: I said, I'll let him know that I was out there. Row.

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Speaker 1: But no. But growing up on the West side of Chicago,

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Speaker 1: and we we emphasized west side. And and here's why because,

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Speaker 1: uh my mom worked for Fred Hampton and I was

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Speaker 1: one of the kids that got the free breakfast, uh

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Speaker 1: you know, learned martial arts and all that. And and

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Speaker 1: the Black Panther headquarter was right there on Madison and Western.

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Speaker 1: The Chicago Bulls the stadium was two blocks from Madison

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Speaker 1: in Western where we you know you go to the

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Speaker 1: United Center now, or what we called the stadium, It

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Speaker 1: was two blocks from there. So as a kid, I

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Speaker 1: was standing outside the stadium begging for shoes, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then they would throw the popcorn out after the game,

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Speaker 1: and they would put it in the trash bend. So

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Speaker 1: we would always you know, wait and get the popcorn

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Speaker 1: and take it home. But growing up on the West side, right,

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Speaker 1: you had Noble Drew our lead teachings Moorish Americans. And

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Speaker 1: at that time it was about nationality, right, and you

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Speaker 1: and I've had some conversations about you know, nationality and citizenship.

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Speaker 1: That's what we were all about on the West Side

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Speaker 1: of Chicago. When Martin Luther King moved into the West

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Speaker 1: Side of Chicago, lived four blocks from my house. There's

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Speaker 1: a street named after my mom in Chicago. My mom

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Speaker 1: was she was a gangster, you know, a real deal. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Homing and Jackson, you will see Mary Thomas Way

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Speaker 1: and you know, named after my mom. You know, we

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Speaker 1: marching all the civil rights movements. Um. You know when

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Speaker 1: Martin Luther King moved in, you know, we didn't have babysitters.

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Speaker 1: It's nine of us, so she you know, she would

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Speaker 1: take us and you know, we had to go where

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Speaker 1: her and my pops went, you know. And so that's

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Speaker 1: kind of the neighborhood that that I'm from. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: the first original game that started in the United States,

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Speaker 1: the Vice Lords. Um, when you talk about the Vice

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Speaker 1: Lords and and and all these games that really started.

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Speaker 1: You know, they if they go back and they read

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Speaker 1: their original charters, right, the original charters were set up.

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Speaker 1: They was supposed to be community base. Yeah, and they

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Speaker 1: was protecting the neighborhood, and it was protecting the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: from the police, right, because there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: police brutality and and and we were fighting not to

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Speaker 1: be colorized. We were fighting not to be putting an apartheid,

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Speaker 1: colorized system. And when you go back and you look

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Speaker 1: and you know those signs that they was running in

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Speaker 1: Memphis that I am a man. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: fighting not to be dehumanized and taken out of all humanity. Right.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to be and remain human. But now we've

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Speaker 1: accepted and we've adopted this colorized system. But but those

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Speaker 1: were the teachings that were taught on the West Side

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Speaker 1: of Chicago. So that's where I come from. That's what's

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Speaker 1: ingrained in me, That's what I carry, that's what I

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Speaker 1: still fight for today. And you know, there's no there's

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Speaker 1: no pure anything. We're all living on a hyphen right,

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Speaker 1: you you you know your Italian American And I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: say this, right, when we were growing up, we grew

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Speaker 1: up with Italians, we grew up with Greeks, we grew

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Speaker 1: up with Polish, we grew up with Irish right, and

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Speaker 1: they were proud to call themselves Greek, Italian, Irish. Right.

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Speaker 1: When did everybody become white? I mean, they don't say

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm Greek anymore. They don't say I'm Italian anymore.

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Speaker 1: They don't say, you know, um Jewish that everybody it's

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Speaker 1: either white, black, green, purple, blue or horne. My mom

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Speaker 1: I used to you know, what, what are You'm black

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Speaker 1: and white? And my Mom's like, no, you're Italian. You're

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Speaker 1: you're Italian. You're not You're not white? Right, right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And and and and by the way, the Italians, you know,

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Speaker 1: come from the Moors, right, you know, so you know,

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Speaker 1: when you when you, all of us are human beings,

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Speaker 1: right and and if we can get back to being

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Speaker 1: human beings and get away from this colorized apartheid system

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Speaker 1: that we're operating in, then we got a chance to

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Speaker 1: make it, you know. And that's what the fight has

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Speaker 1: always been about in this country, right, Those who are

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Speaker 1: who have been classified as black have always been trying

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Speaker 1: to get out of black status. So when immigrants come in,

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Speaker 1: they quickly say what's your status? And they tell you

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Speaker 1: what this status is, right, And you know, so nationality, birthright,

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Speaker 1: citizenship status, those are the things that we need to

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Speaker 1: be talking about. That was the conversation on the West Side,

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Speaker 1: and that's the conversation I still carry today. One quick

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Speaker 1: one question. You said, you and your mom used to

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Speaker 1: take you out to the marches and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: I got a chance to experience that with George Floyd.

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Speaker 1: Did any of that change you experience that? Like, did

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Speaker 1: that have like any type of hold on you to

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Speaker 1: be able to experience that as a youngster, because I

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Speaker 1: experienced as a grown man, and it definitely changed me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and so two things that I noticed dramatically, So

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Speaker 1: when we were marching, you know, in the sixties, my

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Speaker 1: first ten years of life, right, Martin Luther King's assassinated,

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Speaker 1: Fred Hampton's assassinated, the Kennedy's are assassinated, and we're talking

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Speaker 1: sixty three five, then the Cicero riots, Chicago Rights sixty six,

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Speaker 1: sixty seven, So this is my first ten years of

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Speaker 1: lights on the West Side. So I like seven riots,

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Speaker 1: you know, all in all community, right, and it was

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Speaker 1: just the community in the city marching. Right. George Floyd

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Speaker 1: gets killed, and I watched all the pain that you

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Speaker 1: was going through, and we all cried for you and

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Speaker 1: fell for you and saw your heart on display for

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Speaker 1: your brother. Right. But the thing that that was so

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Speaker 1: different about George Floyd and us marching for voting rights

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Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm saying this. In this country, we

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Speaker 1: still marching and trying to get voting rights. Think about

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, right, classified as white in this country,

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Speaker 1: they ain't never had to march for voting rights right,

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Speaker 1: equal rights, keyword, civil rights. I just need you to

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Speaker 1: be civil to me. So I'm and these are these

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Speaker 1: are these are terms, these are labels, right, These are

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Speaker 1: labels civil rights, equal rights, voting rights right. So George

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Speaker 1: Floyd gets you know, gets murdered in watching all the

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Speaker 1: pain that you was going through, but then seeing the

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Speaker 1: whole world. That's different. It's different. Not the whole world

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Speaker 1: stood up and was marching those who were classified as black, white,

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Speaker 1: different countries of the end. And what they were saying is, hey,

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Speaker 1: United States of America, these people that y'all have classified

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Speaker 1: as black, please stop doing this to them. Change these laws,

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Speaker 1: let them be human right, give them their nationality back,

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Speaker 1: let them be a part of the system. Right. And

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Speaker 1: And that was different. You know, where the world stood up,

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Speaker 1: and not only did the world stand up, but you

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Speaker 1: had black folks, white folk, green folks for everybody, I

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Speaker 1: mean everybody, And in the sustained movement of the young folk,

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Speaker 1: the young folks in this country, was like a I

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Speaker 1: don't know what y'all talking about it, but I like snoop,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you know, I you know, it's like

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Speaker 1: you know this my brothers and and so the young folks,

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Speaker 1: what they've done in this country, and I hope they

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Speaker 1: keep it up, is putting the pressure on to to

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Speaker 1: to let us become a part of the United States,

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Speaker 1: American fab brick and and we don't need no no, no.

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Speaker 1: You know, we classified as a minority when you look

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Speaker 1: these terms up in the dictionary, right, hey, these words

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Speaker 1: have meaning, right. So hey, I'm not a minority. I'm

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Speaker 1: a grown man, right right, take care of myself, pay

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Speaker 1: my own bills. You know, I'm not a handicapped individual,

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Speaker 1: and don't classify my business as handicap. You know, treat me,

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Speaker 1: you know, level the playing field. We come from sport

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Speaker 1: and all we ask for is hey, man, just the

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Speaker 1: referees don't cheat like they chalk for the Lakers. No,

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Speaker 1: no call, you know that a chance? So sorry went

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Speaker 1: off on that. That's why I asked, That's why you

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Speaker 1: had me. I was about to let them down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw them tears coming, but you're saying, man, but

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Speaker 1: that's some deep stuff. Man. Y'all did it. I mean

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Speaker 1: y'all and y'all doing it, and we need y'all to

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Speaker 1: keep doing it. Appreciate it. You know. Let's stay on

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Speaker 1: the west side. Let's talk about Lord Henry. How how

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Speaker 1: big was he in your life and how nice was he? Man?

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Speaker 1: So my older brother, Lord Henry, right, um, and so

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Speaker 1: I think he may still hold of the Catholic schools

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Speaker 1: scoring record went to Saint Philip's and um, you know

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Speaker 1: when we talk about George Gervin, right, I didn't know

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00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: George Gervin back then. And back then the NBA one

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Speaker 1: on TV like the NBA's on TV now. So you

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Speaker 1: only admired your your the people in your neighborhood or

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Speaker 1: your older yeah, the locals, and every night and then

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Speaker 1: you may you may hear about doctor J. And then

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Speaker 1: your imagination you this is doctor J. Move but you

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Speaker 1: ain't never really seen him, right, Um. But my brother,

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Speaker 1: Lord Henry was so smooth man. And the name alone,

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Speaker 1: you had to be called the name. Yeah. You know,

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Speaker 1: my mom and my dad they had high hopes and

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Speaker 1: of course of the place that we was living in.

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Speaker 1: That's That's that's how it was. But um, but now

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Speaker 1: and and and he got turned out though you know

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Speaker 1: you got turned out on Heroin. Um ended up dying, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, several years ago. But but man, you're talking

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Speaker 1: about a pretty jump shot. You know, between the leg

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Speaker 1: dribbles behind the bag and the way I was taught

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Speaker 1: to play the game and the way he taught me

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Speaker 1: to play the game, it was all spiritual. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was like and I can't I can't remember him

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Speaker 1: and my older my my second oldest brother, my third

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Speaker 1: oldest brother, Larry. You know, it's like Junior, you know,

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Speaker 1: you you just can't play the game. You gotta feel it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you gotta when you shake, you you gotta

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Speaker 1: feel it. Man, you just can't. You just dribbling. But

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00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: the fun is that you dripping. Yeah, you gotta feel it, man.

385
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Speaker 1: And so you that's how you know you tried to play.

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Speaker 1: You tried to put that spirituality into the game where

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Speaker 1: you tried to make that person who's watching you play

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Speaker 1: feel what you feel. Right. And so brother Lord Henry,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I said, he died a Heroin. But

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Speaker 1: the one thing, you know, he kicked right, and I

391
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Speaker 1: remember when he kicked, you know, and he said, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go back to school. And and while he kicked,

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Speaker 1: he was like, damn, you know it was it was

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Speaker 1: it was easier when I was on drugs, you know,

395
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Speaker 1: because now now you got to get back into the system.

396
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Speaker 1: You've been out of the system for a long time.

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Speaker 1: But he went back graduated from college, and I never forget,

398
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: so you've been on the West side, right, we his

399
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 1: grad The night before graduation, I rented a bus and

400
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: the bus was me know, fifth Avenue in Jackson, right

401
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: and and he was graduating from UH school in Detroit

402
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: Universe with Phoenix University, you know that, yeah, that online thing.

403
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: So um. So I rented a bus and I had

404
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: the bus, you know, show up on Fifth Avenue and

405
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Speaker 1: Jackson at four in the morning, three in the morning.

406
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Speaker 1: Want everybody to be there at three in the morning.

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00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: Bus gonna leave at four going down to Detroit so

408
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Speaker 1: we can watch Lord Henry graduate at four Field. And

409
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Speaker 1: I never forget bus driver calling me up like, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: you you shoot I got the right address. You shoot

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00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: him in the right Okay. I'm like, yeah, man, you're

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00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: in the right location. So anyway, all the Lord Henry's friends.

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Speaker 1: You know, some are still addicts. Um, then some you know,

414
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 1: you know, I've kicked and everything. So we load up

415
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Speaker 1: the bus and as the bus gets loaded up, now

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Speaker 1: a drive down to Detroit. I meet him in Detroit

417
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Speaker 1: and we had his graduation and I never forget. Man,

418
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Speaker 1: like my brother walking across the stage, had his cap

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00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: and gown on. He didn't know what he was gonna

420
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: be there, and and all his friends started holly, Lord Henry,

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Speaker 1: Lord Henry. And man, he broke down on the stage

422
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: and just started crying, like crying like a little baby. Man.

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Speaker 1: That was That was one of the most beautiful days

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00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: that I remember. So when you talk about Lord Henry

425
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: as basketball playing, but the fact that that dude went

426
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: back to school and then he just died a couple

427
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: of years ago. You know, oregons just shut down all

428
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: of the heroin and stuff. It just body just collapsed.

429
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, thanks for bringing him up. Thank you. Man.

430
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: I just lost my little brother. I lost my older

431
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: brother when I was young, So I know the feeling. Yeah,

432
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: I know the feeling. Yeah, Chicago Pipeline all especially now

433
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: all the young players that's coming out of Chicago. Man, Um,

434
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: what's in the water though. You got d Wade, Anthony Davis,

435
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: Kevin Gardner, Derek Rose, Tim Hardaway into our walker yourself,

436
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: uh will buying them? Patrick Beverly, you got so many,

437
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: so many hoopers come from there. All dogs, Yeah, all

438
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: dogs talking about what's in the water. Well, it's in

439
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: Detroit water not too so, I claimed Chicago, Yeah yeah,

440
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: and and and but you know for us, right, it's

441
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: so we always say the south Side like them south

442
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: Side guys, you name, they all got haircuts, you know,

443
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: they pretty what I mean, they and they and they

444
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: can shoot right west Side We d n up. Yeah,

445
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: so we Patrick Beverley, We Tony Allen, you know what

446
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: I mean like we, I mean we we were picking

447
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: you up ninety four feet, were getting in your face.

448
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: Tim Hardaway, you know them south Side dude, the Wayne Way.

449
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: They can score, Yeah, I mean they can they can

450
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: score the basketball. So it's it's like we and then

451
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: they got a lot of food over there too. We

452
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: have it food. But but I would say, just what's

453
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: in the water again, it's the spirituality of you know,

454
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: wanting to be the best and wanting to compete. And

455
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: the guy that we probably the most proud of out

456
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: of Chicago is Derek Row. I mean, hey, man, he

457
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: he lived all of our dream all of our dream right,

458
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: and then he plays for the Chicago Bulls, right, and

459
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: then he becomes the youngest MVP he of the league

460
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: at twenty Oh man. I mean, I mean, I mean

461
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: everybody's like, you know, when d Rose walk into the room,

462
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, theme music be playing. I mean,

463
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: so you know, again, it's just a I think it's competition, right,

464
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: we want to compete. A lot of us really like

465
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: to fight. Don't say we went all our fights, right,

466
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: nobody does. Yeah, Like I grew up fighting. I had

467
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: to fight like twice a week. I didn't win all

468
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: my fights. But then you just start like fighting, right,

469
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: and you just be like A you know part of it, yeah,

470
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: And I think it's Chicago. That's that's part of like

471
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 1: the get down now in Detroit. So I you know,

472
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: when you look at what I the way I grew

473
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: up and the way I learned how to play in Chicago,

474
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: what I tried to do is take that to Detroit.

475
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: So when you look at the Chris Webber, as you

476
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: look at the Derek Colemans, you look at the Jaalen Roles.

477
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: You look at the Steve Smith, you look at you

478
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: know them. We all bring that same like okay, we

479
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: we come in with it. And if you don't like it,

480
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You know, Ronnie Fields, man, if he wouldn't

481
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,239
Speaker 1: have gotten an accident, bro, Yeah, people don't remember, like

482
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: so KG, Right, people talk about Kevin Garnett, but in Chicago,

483
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: they say, Kevin Garnett played with that time. It was

484
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: like he played with man and and you talk about

485
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: somebody jumping high. Right, So when KG first got to Chicago, right,

486
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: you know, KG like to talk, and you know he

487
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: really animated, right, and he wanted to play everywhere, like everywhere,

488
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: and and so he growing up in the gym and

489
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: and and so everybody like, man, who is this dude?

490
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: Mane He kind of talk a lot. You know, it's

491
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: like nah, man, he good Man, he good likely Liam

492
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: And so KG like went all over Chicago playing. But

493
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: as you say, he's the guy that played with Ronnie

494
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: run And it's like Dwayne Wade in Chicago, right, Dwayne

495
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: Wade get mad love, but he don't get the the

496
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: the Ronnie Fields kind of loved because in Chicago, it's

497
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: what you did in high school. Yeah, if you if

498
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,959
Speaker 1: you was the man in high school, you're the man

499
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: for life in Chicago. Chicago, Yeah, we don't have a

500
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: more decorated athlete that come out of Chicago than Dwayne Wade.

501
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade is like the gold standard, you know, Olympics,

502
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: gold medal championships, everything. Nope, no one has got more

503
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: you know, decorations than Dwayne Wade. But in Chicago, oh, man, man,

504
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that's how I go. You know,

505
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: it's like what you did you know in high school

506
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: is what matter? That's crazy? Uh, you end up chooting

507
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: Indiana for college? Who else was on your list? No?

508
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: I didn't choose Indiana Indiana. We'll talk to us about

509
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: where you're who was recruiting you, and where you wanted

510
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: to go. So, um, of course I wanted to stay

511
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 1: at home and go to Paul uh. And then my

512
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: second choice was Iowa with Lude Osan And um, you know,

513
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: so coach Rosboro was the assistant coach at Iowa and

514
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: he actually coached my brother Lord Henry and Gregory at

515
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: Our Lady of Sorrows. So if you go back and

516
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: you look at Iowa, Lude Osan always has Chicago guards,

517
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: you know, from Ronnie Lester, Kenny Arnold. I mean, so

518
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: he had that Chicago or pipeline, Kevin Boyle, Jim Stack,

519
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: and he was able to get all him because he

520
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: had Rossborough who had coach on the West Side. So, um,

521
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to De Paul, wanted to stay home.

522
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: And at that time we were we were poured and poor,

523
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, no lights, no gas, no food, you know,

524
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: struggling every day. And you know, at that time people

525
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: was offering you money to come to school. And I

526
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: never forget, you know, had had I stayed home in Chicago,

527
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: things would have been really nice for the family. I

528
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 1: don't know if I would be alive to day though,

529
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: if I would have stayed home in Chicago. And and

530
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: y'all can understand this, and I've never really said this,

531
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: but growing up in the neighborhood that I grew up

532
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: in and growing up the way we grew up, my

533
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: mom made the wise decision and said, you know, you're

534
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: going to go to in Indiana. M had I stayed

535
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: in Chicago, I don't know, if you know, running the

536
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: running around doing the things that we were doing. Yeah,

537
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: So but she chose Indiana for me. You know, legend

538
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 1: has it that when Bob Knight showed up, the whole

539
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: neighborhood showed up, The whole neighborhood showed up, and and

540
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: then there was a fight almost that broke out to

541
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: so my so, my uh so, my two older brothers,

542
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, all my brothers were there. Um and my

543
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: second oldest brother, Gregory. Um, I'm sure you heard about

544
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: my second older brother, Gregory. Uh so. He so, he

545
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: asked Coach Knight the question. You know, it's like, you know,

546
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: you know, Coach, like, if if Junior was to you know,

547
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: go down to Indiana. You know, we we know the

548
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: clan is right there, and if something was to go down,

549
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, who's gonna look out for Junior? And I thought, coach,

550
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: and I gave a you know, a pretty slick and

551
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: so you know what I mean, He's like, you know, well,

552
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: if if we're winning, then they're gonna look out. And

553
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: he said if we lose it, you know, and you know,

554
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: everybody kind of laughed off, but my brother he didn't

555
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: like that answer. Now and so so back up, So

556
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: Coach Night when he come to visit me, he walked

557
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: in with Wayne Embury and Quinn Buckner. Now Quinn Buckner,

558
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: you know, undefeated, you know at thorn Ridge, undefeated at

559
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: Indiana and in Wayne Embury first black general manager, you

560
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: know in Milwaukee. Now he walked in, he flanked with him, right,

561
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: and he coming to recruit me. So Dick respect walking

562
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 1: through the door. So my brother didn't like his answer, right,

563
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: And and so my brother, you know, my brother was

564
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: lit at the time. I mean he was you know,

565
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: that's just how they was, right. And so my brother

566
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: was like, hey, man, I you know, I don't like that.

567
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: You know that, what you mean they gonna take care

568
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: we we take care of junior, you know. And and

569
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: so the conversation quickly got heated, and you know, I

570
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, the voices raised and everything else. And and

571
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: so everybody's like, na, no, y'all calm down. No Eve did.

572
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: And so coach and I stood up. You know, my

573
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: brother's like, well, we can take this outside. So Coach

574
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: Night stood up and took off his jacket and started

575
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: rolling up in sleeves like it's like, yeah, we could

576
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: take this outside. And everybody's like no, no, no, no.

577
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: And so I look over there and my mom, right,

578
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: my Mom just sitting there, real quiet, kind of nodding

579
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: her head, doing like this, And I'm like, oh, she

580
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: liked it. To dude, she liked it all. She's falling

581
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: for it. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, man, I'm glad they

582
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: didn't go outside, as you gonna get jumped. Oh. He

583
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: wouldn't have made it back in, but he thought it's

584
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: just gonna be a one on one thing. Nah, he

585
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't have made it back end, as a matter of fact.

586
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he would have got stuck

587
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: up first. Yeah, stuck. Yeah, but he wouldn't have made

588
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: it back in, you know, for sure. I remember I

589
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: remember Bob Knight called me my senior year. Um, he called.

590
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: He called my house. My mom asks the phone. She

591
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: was talking to him. She's like, I'm gonna put you

592
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: on speaker pall. This was his exact words. Do you

593
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: want to come to Indiana? Not? Right? Straight up? Bro.

594
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, huh, I'm like I'm gonna. Mom like I

595
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: don't know. She like, excuse me, Yeah, do you want

596
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: to come to Indiana? Not? And she was like, well,

597
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: we'll have to give you a call back. She wasn't

598
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: expecting to be so blunt. And that's all he said. Bro, yeah,

599
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: never heard from again, recruiting trip. Do you want to

600
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: come to Indiana? Not yeah, that's it. No, he was

601
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: straight game with it. He walked up in the house

602
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 1: and say, look, I'm off for your son three things.

603
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: Miss Now this me sitting here right, He's like, Miss Thomas,

604
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm asking I'm off for your son three things. He's

605
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: gonna be a gentleman, graduate from college, and I'm gonna

606
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: teach him how everything I knew about basketball. And I'm like,

607
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: well that ain't enough where the money at, you know

608
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: what I mean. He's like, and but you know, that's

609
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: how he recruited. And the thing that the thing that

610
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: that my mom and I would say my sister that

611
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: they really loved that. I didn't understand at that time

612
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: what coach Knight was doing in the seventies and a

613
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: little bit of the eighties, taking young classified as black

614
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: in young boys in the United States of America, taking

615
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: them down to Bloomington, Indiana, booking by a clan. Right,

616
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: everybody graduated from college, everybody's doing well, everybody won championships.

617
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: And he didn't cheat, and he didn't cheat, and he

618
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: didn't cheat, and that was unheard of during that period

619
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: of time because going to college, he was gonna take

620
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: basket weaving. You know, you didn't have to go to class.

621
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: Somebody's gonna be doing your homework. Everybody who graduated from

622
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: Indiana you went to school, You did your homework, and

623
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: you got a real grade. Yeah yeah yeah. How long

624
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: did it take for you to buy in? Though? I

625
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: mean he compromised, he I had, you know, it was like,

626
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: hey man, this Hay's gonna be like, you know, one

627
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: no place to go. You know, I got kicked off

628
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: the team a couple of times, and and I was like,

629
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: I'm leaving, I'm going home. But then I remember one

630
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: of the lights at home, when no food at home,

631
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: when no gas at home. So and you weren't getting

632
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: no sympathy from your mom. Your mom was like, you know,

633
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: you gotta stay there. So But the thing that I

634
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: the thing that I loved about Coach Night now that

635
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm older, is that he had the courage to coach me.

636
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: He had the courage to have confrontation with me. He

637
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: had the courage to make me do right when I

638
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: wanted to be wrong right. He didn't let me slide,

639
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: He didn't let me get by. And it would have

640
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: been easier for him to do that now that I

641
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 1: was looking back, because I was pretty good at the time,

642
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 1: but I didn't know how good I was as a player, right,

643
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: so he let me, you know, he he basically was like, no,

644
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: you you you gotta go to class. Man. If you

645
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: don't go to class, you can't come to practice. You

646
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: can't lay in your bed all day and think you're

647
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: gonna come to practice and didn't go to class. That

648
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: that that ain't happening. Now. Of course, that's what I

649
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: wanted to do. That's what we all wanted to do.

650
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: So and then in terms of freedom, right like we

651
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: had no plays at Indiana, we didn't have out of

652
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: bounds to play. We weren't coming down calling played twenty

653
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: two up, thirty two out, you know one. It was like,

654
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: now you gotta get to know your teammate. And once

655
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: you get to know your teammate, then you'll know if

656
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: he's going left or right. But we played this this

657
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 1: game they call passing games, similar what Golden State does.

658
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: Now that Steve Kirk from the you know, he comes

659
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: from the coaching tree, right lude osan Um. You know,

660
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 1: when you look at Ludosan when you look at pop

661
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, all of them really have you know, similar

662
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 1: coaching trees and thinking philosophies, very similar to the night right.

663
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: So that passing game, that that that that that uh

664
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: that know your teammate, understand what your teammate's gonna do.

665
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: Uh you know how we're going to attack the opponent,

666
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: how we're gonna dissect him. Uh some some teams only

667
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: entered the ball on the left side of the court,

668
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: or tonight you're gonna entered it on the right side,

669
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: you know. Um So that was the way he made

670
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: you think and play. Uh so, Yeah, And he always

671
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 1: says to thinking man's game, mental is the physical as

672
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: for as to one, And you know, if you can't think,

673
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: then you you you got no shot against playing against me.

674
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: Mental is too physical as for as to one. Yes, okay,

675
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,479
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, it's a thinking

676
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: man's game and you you have to think your way

677
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: through the game, and you're gonna have him thinking about

678
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: that analogy the whole. Yeah. Yeah, two year pit stop

679
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: you win a champion National Championship in eighty one dropped

680
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: twenty three verse, Sam Perkins and James Worthy over North Carolina.

681
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: What was your favorite on the court moments in college? Was? It?

682
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: Was it that championship? Two favorites. The first favorite was

683
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: February fourteenth in Iowa Mike Woodson's return because my freshman

684
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 1: year he had back surgery. We were ranked number one.

685
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: Woodson goes down, Whitman goes down, Bushi goes down, and

686
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: we like, you know, we foll turing. Right, Woodson comes

687
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 1: back and that's his first game and it's in Iowa City,

688
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: and it's my freshman year and my whole my whole

689
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: time now, you know, playing for coach Night. I'm waiting

690
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: for this genius moment, right, I'm waiting for him to

691
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 1: grab the clipboard, you know, and draw up some stuff.

692
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: And but I ain't seen no clipboard and like, you know,

693
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: I ain't seen the clipboard like since I got there. Right,

694
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: So we down, we down one in Iowa. It was

695
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: what his first game back in and we called time

696
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: out and now I'm like, okay, this this is the moment.

697
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: Something gotta happen. I know. We get ready to draw

698
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: up a play now, right, this was the play he said, Whitson,

699
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: can you make a shot? What he said, Yeah, I

700
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: knock it down. Coach, he said. He called me Peewee. Say, okay, Peewee,

701
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: I want you to move the ball around October. I

702
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: want you to set the screen for what'son. What'son? I

703
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: want you to get open, Peewee. When he gets open,

704
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: I want you to hit it. Would he knocked the

705
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: shot down. I'm like, on the left side, the right side,

706
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: where where's what's gonna be. I'm scared. I'm like scared.

707
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: I'm like walking down on the floor. I'm like, okay,

708
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: how are we gonna get the ball in right? He

709
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: wants you to put everybody in place. I'm like, hey, man,

710
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: just all I'm doing. So I passed it, didn't I

711
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: run over there getting check and so I'm waiting for

712
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: wood to wood. He come off tober sets of down screen, what'son?

713
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: Comes off on the left side. I hit him boom boom,

714
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: and he banks it right off the glass. And to me,

715
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: that was the most That was one of the most

716
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: beautiful moments I have experienced because what he recruited me.

717
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: That was my senior year. He had back surgery. You know,

718
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: he's coming back, you know, and so I was like, okay,

719
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: second best moment was, you know, be North Carolina in

720
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: that final game. So two things happened in that game.

721
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: In the first half, North Carolina got out to a

722
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: good start, and I knew we didn't had a talent

723
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: to play with them, right talent for talent, they were

724
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: better James Worthy, Sam Perkins, al Would that's the back line.

725
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: Worthy was a number one pick. I think Perkins was like,

726
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: you know, five or six and al Will was like

727
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: ten or something. But North Carolina they played that platoon system.

728
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: So I was just they got up and I was like, okay,

729
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: we just got a hold home, fellas, because five minutes

730
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: they're gonna take Worthy out. They're gonna take Worthy and

731
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: Perkins out. And when they took them out, that's when

732
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: we was able to come back. But one of the

733
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: biggest plays I thought in that game, clock's running down.

734
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: We got the last shot out a half and Whipman's

735
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: in the in the in the right corner and I'm

736
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: standing there were you know, I'm dribbling the ball, trying

737
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 1: to you know, make sure like everybody is set doing

738
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 1: what they're supposed to do, trying to stall time and

739
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: whopmen and I make eye contact and you know, we

740
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: run the clock down, kick it over the whipmen. He

741
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: knocks down the shot the in the in the first half,

742
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: they gave us crazy momentum going in because I think

743
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: we either went up one or was down one. We

744
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: come back out the third, uh to start the second half,

745
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: and then I take over. So you know that, But

746
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: I thought that shot was one of the biggest moments

747
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: in the game. Yeah, nineteen eighty one draft, you go

748
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: number two overall to the Pistons, probably the worst team

749
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: in the league. Before you got there, you knew what

750
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: she was walking into though, Right, No, I didn't. You didn't,

751
00:48:54,360 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: he said, I understanding. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. Now,

752
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: you know, when you hear the worst team, you know

753
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: you you don't. You have no idea what the worst team?

754
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: That's like, you know what they really mean, right you? So?

755
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: Um there, So there was no culture, there was no Now,

756
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: I come from every place I've been, I've won, right

757
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 1: and and so there there's rules, there's there's there's discipline,

758
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: there's a way of acting, there's a way of being,

759
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: there's a way of doing things. Um and and so

760
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: when I get to Detroit, those it was like, what

761
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: are we doing like, how are we going to win?

762
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: That's all I'm trying to figure out, is how are

763
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: we going to win? And so I had to go

764
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 1: to school, right, and where I went to school. I

765
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: went to the Lakers school and I went to the

766
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 1: Celtics school. So I started following them around. And fortunately

767
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: enough for me, Magic Johnson who had just come off

768
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: winning the NBA Championship and being the MVP of the

769
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: championship game. Now he like, he's like, come on, man,

770
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: you with me? And I'm like, really, I'm with you.

771
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, so we So now I'm I'm I'm

772
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: watching the Lakers. I'm watching him, and I'm watching how

773
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: how they train, how they practice, how they come together.

774
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: Kevin McAll and I were friends, uh, you know since

775
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: high school, played on the PanAm team together. So now

776
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 1: I get to you know, I watch how Boston do things.

777
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: mL Car you know, still talk with him today, you

778
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: know Maxwell. I mean so, so the Celtics and the

779
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: Lakers really like, let me like, in their locker room.

780
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: You look at all the championship celebrations in the eighties,

781
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: you will see Isaiah Thomas in them locker rooms watching

782
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: them celebrate. Right, Um, you know, on their exit meetings.

783
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: I'm with Magic at the exit meetings, you know, when

784
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: they lost to Boston in the room, in the fucking room,

785
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm listening to pat Riley, you know, give

786
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: his thing. Jerry West, Who's steal my man the day? Right,

787
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: Jerry West. They let me in to the sanctuary. I

788
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 1: was one of them, right, And and so I learned.

789
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: And so in learning, not only did it make me better,

790
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 1: but it I was able to bring some things back

791
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 1: to the Pistons in terms of, hey, if we want

792
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: to win in this league, this what it looked say

793
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: that again, what it looked like, right, because we had

794
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: no idea. So so it's like, okay, how are you

795
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: going to win in this league? You you you gotta learn,

796
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: you gotta get educated, right, And and they let me in.

797
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: And so so I'm there when Magic Johnson dribble out

798
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: the shot clock and they're calling him Tragic Johnson, right,

799
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: and I'm in his hotel room, me Mark and this

800
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: dude laying on the floor bawling, I mean just hurt ring,

801
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, just you know that kind of cry, right,

802
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: and and and we stayed up with him until you know,

803
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: bus was leaving at five thirty in the morning, and

804
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: he just laying on the floor, just bawling. Right, come

805
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: down to escalator, get on the bus, go back to LA.

806
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: So I get a chance to watch y'all at I

807
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: get a chance to see James Worthy, right, take the

808
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: ball out on the sideline inbounded Gerald Henderson steals it, right,

809
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: he goes lazy. So I get to see all a heartbreak,

810
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: but also get to see that bounce back. I get

811
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: to see that bounce back. Right, and so when Magic loss. Right. Now,

812
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: at summer, we were training, we're working out, and that

813
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: dude shot me with so many bowls, right, And finally

814
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 1: I just had to say, look, man, I'm not Larry Bird.

815
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: You got cut this shit out. But I mean he

816
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: was training so hard and so now Mark and now

817
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: we're going through all all stuff. Right, that's summer. That

818
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: dude shot maybe a thousand free throws a day, and

819
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, right, are you sing so many free throws?

820
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: But come on, man, you know, work on your jump shot.

821
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: You know, we gotta get your j right now, that

822
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: dude went from being an eighty three eighty four percent

823
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: jumped to ninety wow, jumped to ninety percent from the

824
00:53:55,320 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: fire line, then became the MVP of the league, you

825
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So, so watching that and learning that,

826
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: so when you say, now to Detroit Pistons, So we

827
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: didn't have no culture, So what did I do? Right,

828
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, this is who we are. We need

829
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: an identity. This is who we're going to become. This

830
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 1: is how we're gonna dress, This is how we're gonna talk,

831
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: this is how we're gonna look. Right, and and then

832
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: bringing some stuff from the neighborhood. Right, um, you know

833
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: that that that ten point program, right, you know, it's

834
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: like it's like we're gonna we're gonna instill, listen to

835
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: our teams. Right, there's gonna be some rules. This is

836
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: how we're gonna follow. This, how we're gonna act. This's

837
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: how we're gonna march. Is how we're gonna beat. This

838
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: is who we are in this NBA league and still today,

839
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: this is who we are, this is what we do now.

840
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: If we didn't establish that that culture, that language, that

841
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: belief system, those values, you know, we we didn't have

842
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: the type of talent that LA had. We didn't have

843
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,399
Speaker 1: the type of talent that Boston had, But we had

844
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: a belief system that was so strong that it's gonna

845
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: mess you up when I say this deal, Lamb Beier

846
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: believed that he can compete every single night against Kareem

847
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: Abtol a strong beliefship. Come on, work with me. Think,

848
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: Think about what I just said, Think about what I

849
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 1: just said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean it's

850
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: like that that in itself, right, Lamb Beier walking out

851
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: on the floor with the belief and understanding that number

852
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: thirty three in purple or number thirty three in gold,

853
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: if I do what I'm supposed to do, I can

854
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: beat you. M m. Nobody in the world would agree

855
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: with him, and they didn't. They still don't believe it.

856
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 1: I'm just glad the film Don't Lie, Film Don't Lie.

857
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 1: We just have Barkley on. And Barkley was talking about

858
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 1: around the time you come in, how Bird and Magic

859
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,879
Speaker 1: saved the league. Do you agree with that? I think

860
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: Bird and Magic saved the league, and I think the

861
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: league took off when the Detroit Pistons showed up on

862
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: the scene. I think Bird and Magic. You know what

863
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 1: the NBA was coming out of in the seventies, um

864
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: and and how the United States was. I mean, we

865
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: have to talk about that now, how the United States

866
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: was for for black men in the seventies and then

867
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: Bird and Magic being on the stage in the in

868
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 1: the early eighties coming out of college and then you know,

869
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 1: playing that you know that game again, Magic come to

870
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: La Burger, going to Boston. You know, they walked into culture,

871
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 1: they walked into a foundation, they walked into a way

872
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: of being, they walked into winning. They didn't have to

873
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: you know, get a piece of paper and go to

874
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: school and get educated. They walked into it. Right now,

875
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: that help. But what the ratings say and what the

876
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: numbers say when the league took off is whenning bad

877
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: boys from the Detroit Pistons showed up. Because we showed

878
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: up with a totally different kind of crowd. We had,

879
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: you know, people from all different walks of life, and

880
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: we started putting fifty sixty thousand people in the Silver Dome.

881
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: And then we had three rivalries. I think we're the

882
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: only team that only had three rivalries, the Lakers, the Celtics,

883
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: in the Bulls, right, so every time we played, every

884
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: everywhere we moved, right, it was it was different. And

885
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: then we didn't understand what we didn't know. So we

886
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: met a gentleman about the name of Mike Orenstein with

887
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: the La Raiders or the Oakland Raiders at that time

888
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: what they called cross marketing. Today, we didn't know there

889
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: was such a term as cross marketing. But all connection

890
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: with the Oakland Raiders. Then let us start changing all colors.

891
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: So we went from the red, white and blue to

892
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 1: the silver and black, and then we had a second jersey,

893
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: we had a second uniform, you know, in the NBA

894
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: really didn't own any of that. So when we walked

895
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: off the stage and the Bulls walked on the stage,

896
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: that's when y'all got the shooting jerseys. That's when they

897
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: started changing, you know, the different color uniforms and everything else.

898
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: But the Pistons started all that. So the highest rated

899
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: games in the eighties Pistons against Celtics, Pistons against Lakers,

900
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: Pistons against Bulls, and they all have one thing in common.

901
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: That's a Detroit Pistons to the attitude of energy, y'all

902
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: brod first NBA game thirty one and eleven, crazy first

903
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: Game thirty one eleven. Geez, you make the All Star

904
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: Amage Rookie year two. Clearly the leader of your team.

905
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: Did that come to you naturally or like when you

906
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: when you showed up they knew you was leader, or

907
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: did you have to fight for that. I never thought

908
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: of myself as the leader. I never thought of myself

909
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: as the captain. It's you know, leadership is given. You

910
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: never walk into a room and be like, I'm the leader.

911
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,919
Speaker 1: You know, it's they vote on it. You know who's

912
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: going to be the captain. Okay, you can be the captain.

913
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: And and I was selected the captain and the leader

914
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: only because they trust me, right and in that type

915
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: of trust is earned, and then you have to honor

916
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: it too. Like that means hold, Yeah, that means you

917
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: can't go out when everybody else is going out, right,

918
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: you can't. I mean, I don't know, meant that much. Yeah, yeah,

919
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: you can't. You can't do the things that everybody else

920
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:18,959
Speaker 1: is doing it because you know that there's a certain

921
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,919
Speaker 1: amount of trust and respect that goes along with that. Yeah.

922
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: So that that first game against Milwaukee, I'm playing against

923
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, not Quinn Buckner. I'm playing against him. It's

924
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: my first time playing against him. You know, that dude

925
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: was just in my house. He went undefeated. He went

926
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: undefeated in high school and undefeated in college. Still the

927
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: last undefeated team right now. I'm playing against him and

928
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 1: he like, hey, junior, how you doing. This'll be a

929
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: bad night, right, And and so I remember, like the

930
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 1: first two or three plays, I get by them and

931
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 1: I go down the lane. I go down the lane

932
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,959
Speaker 1: to make a layup. I come back down the lane again,

933
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: and Bob Lanier literally I'm up in the air like this,

934
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: and he goes, caught you in the air, caught me

935
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: in the air and set me down and said, look,

936
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: don't come down here no more. I was like, Okay,

937
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: my jump shot got real good because when he when

938
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: he called because when he called me, it wasn't you know,

939
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: when them guys hit you, right, It wasn't like a

940
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: gentle womb, you know. It was like yeah, and they

941
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:41,479
Speaker 1: put that force behind him, and yeah, you feel that, right, dude?

942
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: Set me down, man. And you know, but I had

943
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: a good game that night, but I was looking forward

944
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: to the next night. So you talk about that thirty

945
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 1: one in the level. The next night, then we go

946
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: home to play the Chicago Bulls and I dropped thirty

947
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: in that game. Now, that's the game that I really

948
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 1: like because not all my boys, everybody, I mean everybody there.

949
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: You know, Red Magic trip from Chicago to Boston. How

950
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: long is that trip? Bust her car from Chicago to Detroit.

951
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: Oh that's it's four hours and it's three and a half. Yeah,

952
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: Jack can get there three yeah, yeah, so straight down

953
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: ninety four. So now you know, we go to Chicago,

954
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: I can say Red Magic one, all my brothers them there,

955
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 1: you know, all I mean everybody up in the stands,

956
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: you know, and my my mom and my my aunt.

957
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 1: Like back then they didn't have them, the metal detectors.

958
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: So my mom she believed in the Second Amendment. Now yeah,

959
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: Binky and my aunt got a switch blade. She carried

960
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: switch blade and you and and I don't know if

961
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: people remember this, but you know, like she would be

962
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: sitting there talking, right and you remember tricks. They could

963
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 1: do tricks with this play, you know, and she likes,

964
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, be talking to you and like twirling it

965
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: all around and hitting it and them nice with it

966
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: and close it up only when they finished. And so

967
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 1: they would bring food to the game, so they bringing

968
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: their chicken and everything, and you know, and so and

969
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. So we um Ricky Sobers was the

970
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: guard then one number fourteen. Sobers played at UNLV right,

971
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,439
Speaker 1: and and so we you know, I'm I'm going through

972
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: my stuff. I went between my legs and that dude

973
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: like hit me so hard. I damn right. You know,

974
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: I folded up right because back then, you know, they

975
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: didn't like when you try to show them off. Like night.

976
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: You can just go through your legs and everything else

977
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: for a long time. Then they stand up and so um,

978
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: I say, Man, don't hit me like that no more.

979
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: You know what you gonna do a little pump? I said, okay,

980
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 1: And so you see all them people sitting up there,

981
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 1: so you live here, So you hit me like that

982
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 1: one more time, you won't live here no more. Straight up,

983
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: that simple. And you know had a good game. You know,

984
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: win it the year. Jordan's is the league at the time.

985
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: The East has loaded yourself, m J Bird, Dominique, Moses Malone,

986
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: Charles Barkley, doctor j Um. What was the Eastern Conference

987
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: back in the middle of the eighties? Like every night,

988
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 1: you see, I just took a simple war. All names

989
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: you just named off. I was like Chevy, I'm sweating now,

990
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: Like man, Philadelphia was so good back then, Mo Cheeks,

991
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: Andrew Tony, Doctor Ja, Moses Malone, Bobby Jones. They don't

992
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: get enough credit for what they was doing in the eighties.

993
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: Back then. I mean that team was and then they

994
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: got Barkley, right, It just unfair, right, Bird McHale Parish,

995
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 1: you know a Milwaukee That Milwaukee team was loaded with

996
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: Marcus Johnson and all of them. So we you know,

997
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 1: it was it was hell, you know up in there.

998
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 1: But what what we had and what we were developing

999
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: was different than all the other teams, right, all those

1000
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 1: teams you just named. What we was developing was identity, culture,

1001
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: belief systems, you know, understand and you know those those

1002
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 1: those you know, those things that you carry with you

1003
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,919
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. Right, that's what we

1004
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 1: was building as a team. And talent wise, all those

1005
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: people that you just named, we didn't have that kind

1006
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: of talent. But what we could do is we could

1007
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: outscheme you and and we can adhere to a game

1008
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: plan and concentrate and do it for two and a

1009
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: half hours. Most teams, most players, they can't. They can't

1010
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: concentrate for two and a half hours, right, And so

1011
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 1: when when Jordan came in, you know, in eighty four

1012
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 1: eighty five, right, you know, he was mega talented. And

1013
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: not only was he mega talented, but we we had

1014
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: never seen an athlete like that. You got to remember,

1015
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: like in the NBA at that time, you know, doctor

1016
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: j still was the best athlete. And when Jordan came in,

1017
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: younger than doctor Jay, I was like, Okay, he's the

1018
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: next Doctor Jay. And you know when nobody jumping from

1019
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: the fire line and in the air and doing all

1020
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: the stuff around the rim that he was doing. Nobody

1021
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: you didn't have athletes like that, so he was. He

1022
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: was a fascinating watch. So due bars and that, right,

1023
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: you know, we would we would be I'll never forget

1024
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: every time Chicago played, you know, Joe and I would

1025
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: be on the phone and we'd be talking because we

1026
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: gotta we got to play against him, right, And they

1027
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 1: were playing New Jersey in Chicago, and Joe and I,

1028
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: you know, we were talking and and Jordan came down

1029
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: on the left side, caught on the left wing, went

1030
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: through a couple of dribbles and then he took off

1031
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 1: on the left box and dude floated all the way

1032
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: to the right box and then laid it up on

1033
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: the other side. That's where to God joined out on

1034
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 1: the phone and for about five minutes, Man, it was

1035
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 1: just dead, silent, dead silent. Do we just see Yeah?

1036
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: And then and then all of a sudden it was like,

1037
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 1: I man, I see you practice tomorrow to deal with

1038
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 1: I mean that dude jumped from the left box and

1039
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 1: was up in the air and went all the way

1040
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: over to the right box and laid it up. It

1041
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 1: was like we had Magic on the show um at

1042
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 1: the end of December, and your name came up, and

1043
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: Magic was talking about what you and him went through

1044
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 1: and how you guys were able to sit down and

1045
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: and patch it up, which is beautiful, by the way,

1046
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 1: Thank you. Everyone was big fans of that. But he

1047
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: also said he would like to see you, would Mike

1048
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 1: patch it up? You called me after that and we

1049
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 1: had a conversation on the phone about what was going

1050
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 1: You care to share any of that? Hey, man? You know,

1051
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 1: I just I just want some people to be honest.

1052
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,639
Speaker 1: I got I got no problem sitting down talking with anybody,

1053
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: right And as you can see, you know, I'm your

1054
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: open book. You know I live with love, peace, truth,

1055
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: you know, honesty, courage, I'm you know, I stand on

1056
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: my square. I'm upright. You know, I'm independent, and I

1057
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: sit in any chair and I talk to anybody, right.

1058
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 1: But some people don't. They ain't been telling the truth

1059
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: right now, anywhere, anytime publicly, I don't. Don't. Don't don't

1060
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: call me behind the scenes, apologizing or asking your friends

1061
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 1: to apologize. Right, you got on national television and you

1062
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: call me an asshole, and then you said you hated me.

1063
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: You said that on national television. Now, if you didn't

1064
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:06,520
Speaker 1: mean it, get on national television, say that and apologize

1065
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: for it. Now, if you meant it, let it ride

1066
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 1: as it is. But so I called you in that

1067
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:19,719
Speaker 1: same day. You know who I call? I called Magic Johnson.

1068
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 1: Magic was on the plane. There was shooting a commercial

1069
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: in Atlanta. Him, Sam Jackson, everybody else. We were staying

1070
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 1: in the Four Seasons Hotel. We missed each other, right

1071
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: because he said he had to go, so he on

1072
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 1: the plane, right, I called him up. Magic didn't mention

1073
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan. All right, So I'm still waiting. You know,

1074
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 1: everybody say this stuff publicly. Right, I'm gonna do this.

1075
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this. Somebody that all right, Well, I'm

1076
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: I'm the type of guy. I sit here, I talk

1077
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 1: to you, I talk to you. It ain't a person

1078
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 1: in this unit in the States of America that I'm

1079
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 1: not willing to sit down and have a conversation with

1080
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: and break bread with. But if you line and throwing

1081
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 1: stones from behind the scenes, okay, that's you. But if

1082
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: you're honest and you upright on your square, I'm willing

1083
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 1: to deal with. Yeah. You know, so that's all I know.

1084
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: Now where do we go from here? I mean, you

1085
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 1: told me something to see me. You have family that

1086
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:36,600
Speaker 1: had stayed with him, and say, at one point, absolutely

1087
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: eight when when Jordan first came to Chicago. First of all,

1088
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 1: we were fans of his and to some extent still

1089
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: fans of his. My family, his family. Not only did

1090
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:04,600
Speaker 1: they socialize, hang out, but as I said, you know,

1091
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 1: I little nephew that lived with him, and and everybody's

1092
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: still cool. Right, Ain't no, ain't no hate for Jordan.

1093
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 1: We just want some realness, right did you just you know,

1094
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 1: like I said, you you got on national television and

1095
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: at nobody ain't nobody nowhere has ever got on national

1096
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: television and called me an asshole and then publicly said

1097
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,680
Speaker 1: you hate me. I ain't heard that from you. I

1098
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 1: ain't heard that from you. I ain't heard that from

1099
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:45,679
Speaker 1: no NBA player. And so I'm and by the way,

1100
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 1: all them years that you supposedly hated me, you voted

1101
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 1: for me to be the president of your union. Yeah,

1102
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 1: you know, I've seen a lot of pictures of All

1103
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:59,599
Speaker 1: Star games and y'all laughing at joke and it didn't

1104
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: look like Yeah, I'm just saying, like, you know, if

1105
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:05,720
Speaker 1: that you know now now maybe you felt like that

1106
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 1: privately and I didn't know, but now that I do know.

1107
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you didn't meet it that way,

1108
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 1: then publicly say it, don't privately say it. You know, magic,

1109
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: we don't need a private conversation. This man did this

1110
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: on national television internationally. I have to answer this question

1111
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 1: right in every interview that I sit down, and do

1112
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 1: you asking me this question right? So now now I'm

1113
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 1: the one who's looking like, oh, why are you talking

1114
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: about Jordan? Why are you saying it? When you to

1115
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 1: put that out there? And now you at home or

1116
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: on your golf course or doing whatever you do, and

1117
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 1: now I got to answer this BS question. So if

1118
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 1: you're mad enough and you and you and you. If

1119
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 1: you meant it, leave it as it is. But if

1120
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 1: you didn't mean it, didn't come out and clean it

1121
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 1: up the same way it came out, the same way

1122
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,839
Speaker 1: it came out with the same intensity. You gotta respect

1123
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 1: that though. That's why I say I mean because if

1124
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,759
Speaker 1: she was on the foot. I know I've been disrespected

1125
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 1: a lot, But if somebody dispected me on TV doing

1126
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 1: the game, but also at the end of the game,

1127
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:21,640
Speaker 1: they sound like, you know what I remember I said that,

1128
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: let me clear this up. What we get off air,

1129
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 1: I gotta respect that. I can't hold it. I can't

1130
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 1: be mad at him no more because he corrected himself.

1131
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 1: Are you you said? Magic and I sat down and

1132
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: squash whatever we had publicly publicly, Magic Johnson apologize. He said,

1133
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I hurt you. When I hurt you,

1134
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:47,440
Speaker 1: I didn't mean that all. I'm good with that. Yeah,

1135
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,640
Speaker 1: I got to accept that and we move on. But

1136
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: if you're gonna let this linger out here in this

1137
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 1: basketball world, and you got everybody else talking, but you

1138
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 1: ain't saying something, Matthew meant it, stand on it, stand

1139
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 1: on it. But if you didn't mean it, clean it up.

1140
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 1: You mentioned, uh, you know, obviously there's no secret that

1141
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:15,559
Speaker 1: you and Magic were we best to friends at one point,

1142
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 1: and what did it mean to you, to you guys

1143
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: to be able to sit down and clear that air

1144
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 1: for you, it meant a lot, not only to me,

1145
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 1: but we didn't know, and I didn't know how much

1146
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:28,599
Speaker 1: it would mean to all of us, to the world.

1147
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 1: I had no idea, you know, because when you when

1148
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: you're going through that, you're just thinking about yourself. You're

1149
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 1: not thinking about really how it's affecting other people. And

1150
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,919
Speaker 1: I just had the same thing happened with Karl Malone

1151
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 1: and I right and by way, thank you, Ken, you

1152
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 1: love you, sacking all strong, um, But you don't realize

1153
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 1: what the other person is carrying, right you you're feeling,

1154
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 1: you know, yourself in your grief and you're hurt. But

1155
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:08,600
Speaker 1: the other person who's carrying that guilt, when you have

1156
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 1: the opportunity and you can relieve them of that, not

1157
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 1: knowing that that's how much they carry in right that

1158
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,560
Speaker 1: that that was a powerful moment not only for he

1159
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 1: and I, but it was a powerful moment for the world,

1160
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 1: which we didn't know. So it's like two moments we've

1161
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 1: had that we didn't realize what we was really doing.

1162
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:33,800
Speaker 1: That ended up changing a lot of stuff like when

1163
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 1: he and I like first hugged and kissed, right, ah,

1164
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: oh you know what they It's like I can't I

1165
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 1: can't meet my brother and give him a hand shake.

1166
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,679
Speaker 1: Whenever I met family, it was always an embrace, right

1167
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:51,839
Speaker 1: when we did when we did that in the eighties,

1168
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: two men, right, black masculinity, you know, and being called

1169
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:00,759
Speaker 1: into question. You're not supposed to you know, you're supposed

1170
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: to have this, you know, this toughness about you and

1171
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: all this stuff. Well, when we broke down that barrier,

1172
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 1: we didn't realize what we had really done. Now when

1173
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 1: we saw each other to day, first thing we did

1174
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: we hug you. I can't wait to hug you when

1175
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 1: I see you. Yeah, let me. And then then then

1176
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,639
Speaker 1: we hugged for a minute because I wanted to feel you, right,

1177
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 1: And but back then that was so controversial. Right now,

1178
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 1: us coming together forgiving compassion, love, friendship, right, it's another

1179
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 1: powerful moment, not knowing that that's what we were doing, right,

1180
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: you know. So, and I'm glad that he and I

1181
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,679
Speaker 1: got to share that. I mean, you mentioned and obviously

1182
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 1: this is going to come up to You mentioned you

1183
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 1: got a chance to sit down with Carl at this

1184
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: last All Star in Utah. What you know, how did

1185
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 1: that go? Man? For years, Man, I wanted to do

1186
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:00,960
Speaker 1: something to call man. I know when you mentioned some

1187
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:03,599
Speaker 1: people might have met, but Kmart told this story about

1188
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 1: how he was watching that game on TV when he

1189
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:08,960
Speaker 1: was a youngster, and and and got him back for you. Yeah,

1190
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 1: and I'm saying thank you. Yeah what I'm saying, so

1191
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:13,720
Speaker 1: you said thank you for people might have but let

1192
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,720
Speaker 1: me but let me say, let me say why I

1193
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 1: said thank you, and then let me let me go

1194
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: further with that because for years, I dude put a

1195
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 1: mark on me, man, And and for years I was like,

1196
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna get my mark back. You know,

1197
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:36,920
Speaker 1: you put a scar on me, and I'm get my

1198
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 1: scar back. And I get my scar back. We even

1199
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:51,559
Speaker 1: but you know, not my though my scar back, believe

1200
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 1: you know, straight up. But and and so fast forward, right,

1201
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'm carrying this around for years, years, for years,

1202
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 1: last dance come out and and you know every you know,

1203
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:14,559
Speaker 1: the narrative was, you know, everybody hated I said, you know,

1204
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 1: nobody wanted him around, Nobody wanted him to be a

1205
01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 1: part of it so far. So so that was what's

1206
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 1: being played. So now on the background, I'm getting calls

1207
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 1: from everybody. I'm getting calls from the Shock Hit, the

1208
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 1: Chicago Bulls team, teammates, people in the Chicago Bulls front office.

1209
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 1: I'm getting calls from people who was on the Dream Team, saying,

1210
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 1: hey man, that ain't me. You know how I feel

1211
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 1: about Okay? Cool? Then I don't get called from call

1212
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:49,880
Speaker 1: and I'm like and he says, hey man, And this

1213
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 1: was years ago, saying hey man, I just want to

1214
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:56,000
Speaker 1: tell you, like, you know, I hear all this stuff

1215
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 1: about the Dream Team. You know, I car talk. I'm

1216
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:00,760
Speaker 1: a man, I'm a real man. I don't you know.

1217
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:04,599
Speaker 1: I ain't handing behind nothing. You know, I I didn't

1218
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with that. You're not making a team.

1219
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, you know, I'm speaking for Stockton.

1220
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 1: Then I we and he said this on camera. He said,

1221
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 1: if there was a secret meeting, me and Stockton weren't

1222
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:18,600
Speaker 1: a part of those secret meeting trying to keep you

1223
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 1: off the team. That wasn't us. So now you know

1224
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 1: my next question is, you know so man, why you

1225
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:28,760
Speaker 1: hit me like that? And this is what I have

1226
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:33,639
Speaker 1: to respect. And and Kenyan, I hope you can respect

1227
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:37,760
Speaker 1: this too, brother, because and and you know, and all

1228
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:40,720
Speaker 1: my people in Chicago and in Detroit everywhere. I hope

1229
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:44,000
Speaker 1: y'all can respect this about Karl Malone because what he

1230
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 1: said was, Hey, look, I I meant to hit you.

1231
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:54,760
Speaker 1: That's how we played. You come down the lane, you're

1232
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna get some physicality. So I meant to

1233
01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 1: do it, he said. But I but I didn't mean

1234
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: to do that. And I apologize because I didn't mean

1235
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 1: to do that. Hey, I have to accept that, you

1236
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Because that now, if he would

1237
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:15,960
Speaker 1: have been like, I'm a tough guy. You know, that's

1238
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 1: how we played, and yeah, I'm a lady blah blah blah.

1239
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:22,320
Speaker 1: But at the same time, now now he gets emotional

1240
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 1: and he started crying. And you know when people started crying,

1241
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:31,160
Speaker 1: Now you crying, yeah, yeah, So you never know what

1242
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,800
Speaker 1: people dealing with. Yeah, And so I I was only

1243
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 1: looking at it from my point of view. I never

1244
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 1: knew the type of guilt that he was walking around carrying.

1245
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:48,000
Speaker 1: And so by me saying, hey man, it's Okay, I

1246
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 1: love you, brother, We're good man. He said, you just

1247
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 1: took the whole weight off my show. Now, I never

1248
01:21:54,479 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 1: knew he was walking around with Wait. I just thought

1249
01:21:57,200 --> 01:21:59,320
Speaker 1: he was walking around like, yeah, I'm a tough dude.

1250
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 1: Look what I did to you and and somebody else.

1251
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:03,599
Speaker 1: I'm a dude. But that ain't the way he was thinking.

1252
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:06,360
Speaker 1: And when he said, yeah, I meant to hit you,

1253
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 1: but I didn't mean to do that. Now, that last

1254
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:13,280
Speaker 1: part I got to accept, right, And that's you know

1255
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 1: that that was real. So I respect that mid eight

1256
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 1: is mid to late eight as you start winning, start

1257
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 1: going on the role. We clicked. We became one, everybody

1258
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: on the same page page, Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I

1259
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:36,240
Speaker 1: don't care who you sit in this chair. If he's

1260
01:22:36,280 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 1: a piston, he's gonna tell the same story. He's gonna

1261
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:43,439
Speaker 1: act the same way. He's gonna care himself the same way.

1262
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:48,800
Speaker 1: We still got a group chat. John said, nah, nah, no,

1263
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:52,840
Speaker 1: this this this is who we are from day one. Right,

1264
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:59,879
Speaker 1: That's what clicked. It wasn't like we became better basketball players.

1265
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 1: We became like this as opposed to being five individuals.

1266
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 1: Right now, punch is more profit than the slap all

1267
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:16,960
Speaker 1: the time, Bruce Lee talking too. And when you and

1268
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:19,200
Speaker 1: when you put some when you put some energy in

1269
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:23,120
Speaker 1: there behind that, and that's what we was walking up

1270
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 1: in there with, right, all force. Right, teams had no

1271
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 1: they had no shot, right because all allur togetherness, all force.

1272
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 1: It was intimidating. So when you say what made it

1273
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:45,720
Speaker 1: come together is those sacrifices, those individual sacrifices that we

1274
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 1: all was making, that community, that communication, that crying, that breakdown,

1275
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:54,799
Speaker 1: those heartaches, you know, all that that that that staying

1276
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:58,479
Speaker 1: together and then you you become one. And when we

1277
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: became one, we we're probably we're definitely the most misunderstood

1278
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:11,479
Speaker 1: team that's ever played in the NBA. And we're the

1279
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 1: most misunderstood team that's ever played in the NBA. And

1280
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:21,120
Speaker 1: I say team because we were a team. The NBA,

1281
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:28,520
Speaker 1: you know, wants to promote individuals. You know, my whole team,

1282
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 1: you know my you know, you know our team to

1283
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 1: the ninth tenth man name, yes, our team, right, And

1284
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:39,760
Speaker 1: that's how we promoted ourselves, right. The NBA wanted to

1285
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,560
Speaker 1: give you the individual we like, Nah were coming to

1286
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 1: the captains meant we came to the captains meeting one

1287
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 1: time and our whole team came to them, and so

1288
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:55,960
Speaker 1: that that type of togetherness, that type of chemistry. Now,

1289
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:02,479
Speaker 1: these are the facts our first championship in eighty nine,

1290
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:06,840
Speaker 1: because they didn't understand us, and we got the best

1291
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:10,559
Speaker 1: record in the league. But we don't have one All

1292
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:14,120
Speaker 1: Pro on All Team. I didn't make first team. I

1293
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 1: didn't make second team. I didn't make third team. Joe

1294
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 1: didn't make first team, second team or third Robin didn't

1295
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:24,639
Speaker 1: make first team, second team or third team. Lamb Beard

1296
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:26,680
Speaker 1: didn't make first Now, we got the best record in

1297
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,640
Speaker 1: the league, and we swept the Lakers, right, And they

1298
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 1: say the Lakers was hurt, but they don't never say

1299
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:36,439
Speaker 1: I was hurt when they beat us, Right, you know that,

1300
01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 1: But you know and and and the other point I

1301
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 1: want to make is the sacrifices in terms of team.

1302
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 1: Not only did we not have anybody make All Pro,

1303
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 1: but nobody averaged twenty points a game. I led with nineteen.

1304
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 1: This one had eighteen two, half seventeen from the half fifteen.

1305
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:06,320
Speaker 1: That they're the balance. If we were a team, who

1306
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:08,639
Speaker 1: are you gonna who are you gonna stop? One night?

1307
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 1: I get thirty five, right game five to go to

1308
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:18,880
Speaker 1: the to the to to beat Boston the year before,

1309
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:22,320
Speaker 1: I had thrown the ball away. Come back in eighty eight,

1310
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 1: we back in game five again, Junior, what you're gonna do?

1311
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:30,920
Speaker 1: I got magic in my mind. I got James Worthy

1312
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:32,960
Speaker 1: in my mind because I didn't seen them get up.

1313
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:37,000
Speaker 1: Come back to that game five. At game five in Boston,

1314
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,400
Speaker 1: I dropped thirty five, thirty six, had like a great game,

1315
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 1: come back Game six on the close out game you

1316
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:44,880
Speaker 1: know what I mean, points I scored and close our

1317
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:52,400
Speaker 1: game nine. You know who got hot? Benny Michael Wave

1318
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:55,760
Speaker 1: Benny Benny got hot, and it was like, all right,

1319
01:26:56,200 --> 01:27:00,080
Speaker 1: go go Now if we was playing analytic basketball and

1320
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:03,200
Speaker 1: playing selfish basketball, hey man, I gotta get my twenty,

1321
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:06,640
Speaker 1: get my I gotta keep my average up right. And

1322
01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:10,479
Speaker 1: so that balance that you talk about. We can't beat

1323
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:15,639
Speaker 1: the Lakers in the Celtics individually, but our team can

1324
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:20,360
Speaker 1: we beat the team? Hell yeah? A lot of people

1325
01:27:20,439 --> 01:27:23,479
Speaker 1: say Boston Celtics, the team yeah you played against was

1326
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 1: the probably the most fundamentally sound team ever to play

1327
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 1: in the NBA. Um you was able to battle with them?

1328
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:34,680
Speaker 1: How good were they? They were? That? They were that?

1329
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:38,759
Speaker 1: Not not only were they that, but they were so smart.

1330
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:46,639
Speaker 1: I mean Walton Bird with cal Parish Angel Dennis Johnson.

1331
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 1: One point in time, they had Nate Archiball, Scott Webman.

1332
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:53,799
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean they were just loaded with talent

1333
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:58,720
Speaker 1: but extremely smart. In one year they went forty and

1334
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:04,360
Speaker 1: one at home. How about that, it went forty and

1335
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:11,200
Speaker 1: one at home. That's how good they were. Now, now

1336
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:19,800
Speaker 1: that's how good we were. Okay, arguably they say that's

1337
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 1: one of the best teams to ever play in the NBA,

1338
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 1: if not the best one. That was eighty eighty six

1339
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 1: eighty seven, right, and then the Lakers, right they you know,

1340
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:35,599
Speaker 1: one and two, those are the two best teams they

1341
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:39,759
Speaker 1: say that ever play. Well, that's who we beat Random

1342
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:44,960
Speaker 1: Both down. That's who we beat Random Both down. That's

1343
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,400
Speaker 1: how good we were. Yeah, well, you know right, well,

1344
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:51,200
Speaker 1: you know like like like like you say, y'all, y'all

1345
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:56,120
Speaker 1: the only ones that beat all three of them, Mjo,

1346
01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 1: Magic and Bird name somebody else will beat all three, y'all,

1347
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:02,360
Speaker 1: all three of them. And let me let me put

1348
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:04,559
Speaker 1: enough something to it. Yeah, let me add something to it.

1349
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:11,479
Speaker 1: When we beat them, they were all MVPs of the league.

1350
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 1: Magic was MVP of the league. Jordan was MVP of

1351
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 1: the league. Bird was MVP of the league when we

1352
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 1: beat him. Is right there? Give me give me a

1353
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:31,120
Speaker 1: little bit more about the LB though, lad bird man,

1354
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 1: give me a story man about LB Man. So I

1355
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:39,720
Speaker 1: don't know if people, I don't know how this is

1356
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:46,360
Speaker 1: gonna play with America, right, but let me just tell

1357
01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 1: you what this dude told me one time, right now,

1358
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 1: all back line. At one time it was Kelly Tripuca,

1359
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:02,639
Speaker 1: Bill Lambier, Kim Benson, three white dudes. Two of might

1360
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:09,160
Speaker 1: have heard of all right. So we walked out on

1361
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 1: the court and he said who guarding me? And I said, well, hey,

1362
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:21,080
Speaker 1: you know, we both from Indiana. We're talking stuff. Me

1363
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 1: and his mom had a close relationship in college. His

1364
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:26,960
Speaker 1: mom would write me like notes, was even writing me

1365
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:29,240
Speaker 1: notes like when I was in the pros, like you know,

1366
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:35,000
Speaker 1: good luck everything else. Right, So Larry's always called me cheesy, Right,

1367
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:37,559
Speaker 1: He's like, cheesy, who guard me? And I was like,

1368
01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 1: you know, I got Kelly, got lamb I got I

1369
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:50,360
Speaker 1: got Benson. He's like, you ain't got no brothers like you.

1370
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:54,800
Speaker 1: He's like, you disrespecting me. That's what he said. That's

1371
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 1: exactly what he's saying, he said, hey man, you keep

1372
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 1: putting no white dude ony better straight disrespect right. Don't

1373
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:06,680
Speaker 1: put no white dude though, So check this out. So

1374
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:09,840
Speaker 1: the next year we come back, I got somebody for

1375
01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:19,640
Speaker 1: your ass, right, who you got Rob? He say? Okay,

1376
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 1: he's a little better, he say, but don't never put

1377
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 1: no white dude on me because that is disrespectful. Okay. Now,

1378
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:31,519
Speaker 1: I don't know how America's gonna feel about that, but

1379
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:34,040
Speaker 1: I think he said in his Sports Illustrated too, Yeah,

1380
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:36,840
Speaker 1: you can go get the quote I've heard. I heard

1381
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 1: other people talk about lad Bird and I had conversations

1382
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:42,880
Speaker 1: with people like John Sally and he said the same thing.

1383
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 1: He was black. Yeah, I was like, man, he walked

1384
01:31:46,439 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 1: on the court, he was black straight, hey man. But

1385
01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:50,800
Speaker 1: that's who he played with, you know, that's what I heard.

1386
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: He played with the garbage So the garbage trust workers.

1387
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:59,760
Speaker 1: Um in um story is uh in French lique. You know,

1388
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:02,680
Speaker 1: he he grew up, you know him and Quinn Buckner, right,

1389
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:05,760
Speaker 1: you know, so he grew up. You know even though

1390
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:09,400
Speaker 1: French League. You know that's that's kind of Larry. You know,

1391
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:12,840
Speaker 1: he he ain't in all that, but he like you know,

1392
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 1: did his own thing, but you better put somebody on

1393
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:21,599
Speaker 1: me that. And yeah, he ain't got no melon tonight.

1394
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:23,479
Speaker 1: He can't guard me. He can't guard me that you

1395
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:26,439
Speaker 1: disrespected my game. And even if he got some melon,

1396
01:32:26,479 --> 01:32:28,800
Speaker 1: he go have a long night. But you know what though,

1397
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:30,639
Speaker 1: But you know what though, I know he walked out

1398
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:32,720
Speaker 1: on the court one time somebody said to get this

1399
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:35,760
Speaker 1: white boy, and he can't guard me, and Larry served him,

1400
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:40,960
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty sure he heard that before. And they

1401
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 1: they used to talk so much trash man. So I

1402
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 1: remember we were playing them, uh in the elimination game

1403
01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:56,200
Speaker 1: in Joe Louis Arena, and you know, end of the game,

1404
01:32:57,160 --> 01:32:59,920
Speaker 1: they up like eight to nine. They didn't won the series,

1405
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:02,639
Speaker 1: and you're gonna try to take that last shot, right

1406
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:08,679
Speaker 1: and and mchael said, I hope you make this last

1407
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:12,639
Speaker 1: shot because it's your last one of the scenes. While

1408
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm in the air the damn claim I missed it,

1409
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:23,480
Speaker 1: you know. But they just talked so much trash man.

1410
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 1: And if you go back and you watch that the

1411
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:31,759
Speaker 1: Lakers Celtic Um documentary, you will see how much trash

1412
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:35,200
Speaker 1: they was talking to. I don't know if it was

1413
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:39,479
Speaker 1: worthy or magic was at the fire line and and

1414
01:33:39,560 --> 01:33:43,280
Speaker 1: he missed the free though an mL car walked across

1415
01:33:43,439 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 1: the fire line. Yeah, man, And and I remember, I

1416
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:54,360
Speaker 1: don't know if it was eighty four eighty five. So

1417
01:33:54,400 --> 01:33:58,599
Speaker 1: I'm following this series back and forth. The the Lakers

1418
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 1: win in Boston and they just come up in there

1419
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:04,439
Speaker 1: and they gainst the Boston like, you know, because Boston

1420
01:34:04,439 --> 01:34:06,720
Speaker 1: was supposed to be the physical team. The Lakers was

1421
01:34:06,760 --> 01:34:09,880
Speaker 1: supposed to be showtime. And you know, so Lakers came

1422
01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:12,679
Speaker 1: up in them just you know, boom boom, pounding and

1423
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:16,599
Speaker 1: and you know, so Lair of Bird the next day,

1424
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, he called my team, you know, called him

1425
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: sissies and everything else, you know, all the newspaper. Right. So,

1426
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 1: now they come back. I think it was game five here,

1427
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:35,599
Speaker 1: and I mean it is. I think that's the game

1428
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:40,519
Speaker 1: that McHale Grand Rabbits threw them out of there, right. Yeah.

1429
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:45,800
Speaker 1: So so now I'm watching all this right and I'm

1430
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:50,960
Speaker 1: sitting baseline and they enter it in the Bird on

1431
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 1: the on the right side of the court, Bird on

1432
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:58,680
Speaker 1: the baseline, and he dribbling down and Magic come to

1433
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:03,200
Speaker 1: double team and I'm like, no, no, no, he ain't

1434
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:05,360
Speaker 1: getting ready to shoot because now I'm studying, I'm like,

1435
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 1: you know, now I know when Bird's gonna do a

1436
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:10,600
Speaker 1: step back. I'm I'm like, no, I'm my mind like,

1437
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:14,120
Speaker 1: don't come double, don't come double. And he came in

1438
01:35:14,240 --> 01:35:17,040
Speaker 1: double and he kicked it out to Dennis Johnson and

1439
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,559
Speaker 1: Dennis Johnson knocked it down right from the foul line.

1440
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:25,599
Speaker 1: Boom game and Boston beat La here. But those type

1441
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:28,600
Speaker 1: of you know, rivalries going back and forth. I mean

1442
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:32,880
Speaker 1: the way they was fighting, and and I I felt

1443
01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 1: so sorry and bad for Bird because the way Michael

1444
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:43,320
Speaker 1: Cooper was guarding him. Man, I mean, dude, you you

1445
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:48,680
Speaker 1: can see Michael Cooper's fingernails all on Birds, like you know,

1446
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:51,640
Speaker 1: one time he poured his his shirt and all you

1447
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:55,320
Speaker 1: saw was Coops fingernails like and but man, they they

1448
01:35:55,479 --> 01:35:59,760
Speaker 1: was going at it. And so now they go back

1449
01:35:59,800 --> 01:36:06,000
Speaker 1: to Boston and Burr was real clever. So they have

1450
01:36:06,120 --> 01:36:12,600
Speaker 1: an out of bounds play where balls balls here on

1451
01:36:12,640 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 1: the right side, and he's coming up to set an

1452
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:20,559
Speaker 1: upscreen as he comes, you know, instead of it being

1453
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:22,760
Speaker 1: a pin down. Yeah, he said no, he comes up

1454
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:25,479
Speaker 1: to set an upscreen. But when he comes to set

1455
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:29,559
Speaker 1: an upscreen, now you're taking the ball out and that's

1456
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 1: the corner. And as he said in the upscreen, the

1457
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:36,760
Speaker 1: defenders in front of him, and that dude flared to

1458
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:42,439
Speaker 1: the corner money ball and caught it. And when he

1459
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:46,360
Speaker 1: let it go, I was like, he ain't missing. It

1460
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 1: was hit the back of the rim, but it was

1461
01:36:51,479 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 1: it must the ball must have stayed in the air

1462
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 1: for about five seconds, I mean, just spinning perfectly right

1463
01:36:58,720 --> 01:37:01,960
Speaker 1: boom hit the back, bounced off and I was like, Hey,

1464
01:37:02,080 --> 01:37:05,080
Speaker 1: God was with y'all to day late, because I mean

1465
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:08,479
Speaker 1: it was so clever of a play that that he

1466
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 1: was able to up slide ball there. Ball came in

1467
01:37:13,160 --> 01:37:15,400
Speaker 1: and he was able to just right in front of

1468
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 1: the Laker bench. And if you go back and you look,

1469
01:37:17,920 --> 01:37:22,840
Speaker 1: you'll see pat rity like everybody was playing, I mean

1470
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:25,880
Speaker 1: every the whole gym. Man. When he called the ball,

1471
01:37:26,240 --> 01:37:28,960
Speaker 1: you know when some people catch the ball to right

1472
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:33,679
Speaker 1: the whole gym, and when he missed, it was like, yeah,

1473
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:39,160
Speaker 1: give me something quick on Robin. That's athlete I've ever seen,

1474
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:42,280
Speaker 1: probably in the NBA, not the highest jumping athlete, but

1475
01:37:42,400 --> 01:37:45,720
Speaker 1: just the best athlete. Like I've never seen anybody who

1476
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:52,880
Speaker 1: he ran that fast and then quick jump like that.

1477
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:57,400
Speaker 1: So my first time playing with him, literally he gets

1478
01:37:57,439 --> 01:38:02,320
Speaker 1: the rebound kick to me on an outlet pass, right,

1479
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:05,680
Speaker 1: And so when I get on an outlet, now I'm

1480
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:09,080
Speaker 1: dribbling into the middle of the floor to set the break.

1481
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:12,040
Speaker 1: As I'm dribbling into the middle of the floor, Now

1482
01:38:12,160 --> 01:38:14,760
Speaker 1: this dude just threw it to me. He down there

1483
01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:18,600
Speaker 1: underneath the back waving for and I'm like, how the

1484
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:20,559
Speaker 1: hell he gets So of course I kick it up,

1485
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:24,120
Speaker 1: but adjusting to his speed was the first thing I

1486
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:28,440
Speaker 1: had to do. And then I never saw anybody scientifically

1487
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:33,880
Speaker 1: break down rebounding the way Dennis Robin did. So our

1488
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:37,240
Speaker 1: first you know, our first couple of games, you know,

1489
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:41,120
Speaker 1: we be in the layup line, and then he stopped

1490
01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:45,439
Speaker 1: and he just you know, standing under the rim, and

1491
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, used to be you lay it up and

1492
01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:51,760
Speaker 1: then after you do your layups, then you start taking

1493
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:54,920
Speaker 1: a little short pull up shots, right, And so whenever

1494
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:57,479
Speaker 1: we started taking short pull up shots, he was stopped.

1495
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:03,720
Speaker 1: And so finally, you know, like, what you're doing, man,

1496
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:07,360
Speaker 1: get in line, like you know, likes He's like, no,

1497
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:12,679
Speaker 1: I'm I'm counting. So Dennis was a little strange. Anyway,

1498
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm like I ain't gonna even respond to that. Yeah,

1499
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:21,479
Speaker 1: like I'm counting, right, and and and and so my

1500
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:27,120
Speaker 1: mind everywhere right, and so finally, you know, now we

1501
01:39:27,280 --> 01:39:31,000
Speaker 1: break up and he's still standing under basket, right, and

1502
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:33,960
Speaker 1: he's just looking at everybody ball and I'm like, what

1503
01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:36,599
Speaker 1: you counting? Like I didn't, I didn't ask what you counting?

1504
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:39,599
Speaker 1: I said, what you're doing? He say, I'm counting. I'm

1505
01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:42,800
Speaker 1: counting the spins on the ball. He said, when you

1506
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:47,160
Speaker 1: shoot your ball, spend like three times. Joe sometimes spend four.

1507
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:53,000
Speaker 1: This one spent. This dude was counting the rotations on

1508
01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:58,600
Speaker 1: the ball on every player. He knew how long he

1509
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:01,680
Speaker 1: was gonna be in the air, how many times it rotated,

1510
01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:04,560
Speaker 1: where it was gonna hit, where it would bounds. I

1511
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:07,880
Speaker 1: had never seen nobody breakdown rebounding like that. That was

1512
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:10,200
Speaker 1: kind of insane. That was that he was. He was

1513
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:13,559
Speaker 1: a genius man. Dennis Rodman was a flat out genius

1514
01:40:13,880 --> 01:40:17,120
Speaker 1: when it came to basketball. I remember when he went

1515
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 1: to Chicago and they said, well, are you gonna have

1516
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:23,120
Speaker 1: a hard time learning the triangle? He goes, it's a

1517
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 1: triangle game. Five after the after the inbound turnover, yep

1518
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:36,360
Speaker 1: um talk about this series and Louison and you say

1519
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:39,439
Speaker 1: Bird wouldn't be all at if he was black. All

1520
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 1: that little stuff you know that went on. But and

1521
01:40:42,439 --> 01:40:46,280
Speaker 1: after that, y'all went on to win three finals. And

1522
01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:49,640
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that too, because two, I mean,

1523
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 1: excuse me, two it should have been three. Should have

1524
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:55,280
Speaker 1: been three. Yeah, and talk about that too. That'll be

1525
01:40:55,360 --> 01:40:57,640
Speaker 1: the second question about do you believe that Pistons are

1526
01:40:57,640 --> 01:41:04,719
Speaker 1: a dynasty. We're not a dynasty because technically we didn't

1527
01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 1: win three, right, So is that what que because there's

1528
01:41:08,280 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 1: no written rules. So we had a debate with Freddie

1529
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:14,920
Speaker 1: Gibbs who said, you guys were three, that makes you

1530
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:17,479
Speaker 1: with the several runs, that makes you well. To me,

1531
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 1: it's about your your dominance and your banners, right and

1532
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:29,360
Speaker 1: even and even though you even though you there's reasons

1533
01:41:29,479 --> 01:41:32,599
Speaker 1: why you didn't get that third banner, right, we would

1534
01:41:32,600 --> 01:41:37,439
Speaker 1: have been the first team in all era to win three.

1535
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:41,320
Speaker 1: Only two teams. If they say the eighties is the

1536
01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:46,200
Speaker 1: greatest basketball era, right, only two teams went back to back.

1537
01:41:47,000 --> 01:41:49,519
Speaker 1: It was Pistons in the Lakers as great a team

1538
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:51,800
Speaker 1: as the Celtics, where they didn't go back to back.

1539
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:57,200
Speaker 1: Only two teams went back to mack now um our.

1540
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:04,040
Speaker 1: So are we a dynasty? We didn't get the third

1541
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:08,120
Speaker 1: in Chicago was the first team to get three after

1542
01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:11,519
Speaker 1: the step. So Chicago, you can say, okay, what they

1543
01:42:11,640 --> 01:42:15,320
Speaker 1: did those three years and then came back and did

1544
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, So that's when dynasty stopped. Dynasty talk starts.

1545
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:26,080
Speaker 1: Lakers Celtics. You have to give them dynasty talk because

1546
01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:30,120
Speaker 1: of their historical relevance. What Magic and Bird walked into,

1547
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 1: they walked into ready made dynasties. Already they were already dynasties, right.

1548
01:42:35,160 --> 01:42:38,679
Speaker 1: Celtics were already a dynasty. Lakers was already a dynasty.

1549
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:47,120
Speaker 1: What now what I would say, who's been the most

1550
01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:55,400
Speaker 1: impactful team on the NBA, It's a Detroit Pistons. When

1551
01:42:55,479 --> 01:42:59,760
Speaker 1: you look at our style of play, pick and roll basketball,

1552
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:05,400
Speaker 1: stretched five in lamb beer, small guards, you know, shooting

1553
01:43:05,479 --> 01:43:07,800
Speaker 1: from the perimeter. We didn't have a post up player.

1554
01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:14,839
Speaker 1: The way we influenced the game look ays like myself.

1555
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:18,080
Speaker 1: We weren't supposed to win championships. As a matter of fact,

1556
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:20,000
Speaker 1: when I came into the league. All the point guards,

1557
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:25,800
Speaker 1: Magic Johnson, Reggie Thiz, Paul Prescy, you know, everybody was

1558
01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:30,720
Speaker 1: six sixty nine. The dudes won. We weren't supposed to win, right,

1559
01:43:31,040 --> 01:43:33,719
Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, I'm still the only

1560
01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:40,200
Speaker 1: one that's won this way. Now, Steph Right has won

1561
01:43:40,280 --> 01:43:44,799
Speaker 1: in Golden State, established the dynasty, but his playing style

1562
01:43:45,280 --> 01:43:50,400
Speaker 1: is different than mine totally. I scored and assisted, he scores,

1563
01:43:50,920 --> 01:43:55,880
Speaker 1: so two different ways of impacting. But so Golden State

1564
01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 1: what they did dynasty. But the most impactful and the

1565
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:06,640
Speaker 1: most fluential team that's played is a Detroit Pistons. You

1566
01:44:06,760 --> 01:44:12,599
Speaker 1: played D two. I still hold a record on both ends.

1567
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:14,840
Speaker 1: And when you look at the playoff record in terms

1568
01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:20,040
Speaker 1: of steals, I think one year I had sixty six

1569
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:23,840
Speaker 1: steals in a playoff run. Damn, I'm gonna say that again.

1570
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:27,200
Speaker 1: It's a thief. Yeah, I was a real thing. That's

1571
01:44:27,200 --> 01:44:31,280
Speaker 1: a lot of defense right there. But you know, I

1572
01:44:31,400 --> 01:44:35,879
Speaker 1: think we've influenced the game the most from an offensive

1573
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:39,840
Speaker 1: standpoint and also from a defensive standpoint. And then I

1574
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:43,439
Speaker 1: would also say from a guard playing standpoint, the way

1575
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:48,599
Speaker 1: guards played. Now every team they don't have a Magic

1576
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:52,280
Speaker 1: Johnson type guard. They don't have a Michael Jordan type guard.

1577
01:44:54,479 --> 01:44:58,160
Speaker 1: They don't have a Dennis Johnson type guard. Every team

1578
01:44:58,280 --> 01:45:02,080
Speaker 1: right now has an Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Vinnie Johnson

1579
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 1: type com. You may not like it, you may not

1580
01:45:05,479 --> 01:45:08,880
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge it. It is true, but those are

1581
01:45:08,920 --> 01:45:09,320
Speaker 1: the facts.