1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 2: Today, we are going to be talking about terrorism on 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: US soil. It's a tough topic We've got. We've had 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 2: a couple of attacks in the past week. We also 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: saw an attack in New York City, an attempted attack 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 2: in New York City. These things are I think scarier 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 2: today because as we go after the leading sponsor of 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: terror in the entire world, we have concerns about what 9 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: could possibly stir up here at home. And I think 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: it's an interesting conversation because so many people have come 11 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: to me and been like, are you mad that we 12 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: went to war? 13 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: Because this is now. 14 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 2: Causing people to create these terror attacks on US soil. 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 2: And I think to myself, what a naive view of things, 16 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: Like those people weren't going to they were just going 17 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: to sit here and silently hate us unless we provoked something. 18 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 2: Because if they were here planning, I believe that they 19 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: have always been here planning, and that these people exist 20 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: and that we need to be careful about it. So 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: I thought, well, who can I talk to about this? 22 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: And we found Rafael Manguel. He is a fellow at 23 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: the Manhattan Institute and a contributing editor of City Journal 24 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: and a member of the Council on Criminal Justice. 25 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Rafael, thank you so much for joining me today. 26 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. 27 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 2: Absolutely so as we look at this, I know you've 28 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: had a lot to say about what's going on in 29 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: New York. New York is interesting to me because we 30 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: have this mayor who was elected on essentially being like, 31 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: I don't love policing. I don't want these special units 32 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: that are going to look for terror and take care 33 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: of issues like this, And I don't really want anybody 34 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 2: to police protests. I don't want, you know, let them 35 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: get out of hand if they want. That kind of 36 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: all changed over the past week. So what's your opinion 37 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 2: of what is happening in Manhattan and where Mayor mom 38 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 2: Donnie goes from here? 39 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I wrote a piece for City Journal 40 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: about this in the wake of that attack, and my 41 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 3: basic take was that, you know, this needs to be 42 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 3: a wake up call for Mayor mom Donnie. I understand 43 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: that he's young, I understand that he's only been on 44 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: the job for a couple of months, but the reality 45 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 3: is is that New York always has and always will 46 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 3: be a prime target for terror. 47 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: Suspects. 48 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 3: You know, it is very much considered the heart of 49 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 3: the nation, even though it's not the capital, right, it's 50 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 3: where we had not one but two separate attacks on 51 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: the World Trade Center just in my lifetime. Right, So 52 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: this is this is something that is going to be ongoing, 53 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 3: and I think the mayor needs to be sat down 54 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: by the adults in the room and made to understand 55 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 3: that the risk is very real, that it is ever present, 56 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 3: and that it needs to be mitigated. And now that's 57 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 3: where we start to get into, you know, some of 58 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 3: the steps that we can take. And one of the 59 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: questions that I always get when something like this happens 60 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 3: is well, what can we do? Right? I mean, you know, 61 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 3: what is it that we can do about this? And 62 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: when you're talking about a city like New York, you're 63 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 3: talking about an incredibly wealthy city with a lot of 64 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 3: resources at hand. And if those resources are invested properly 65 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 3: in the one institution that is designed and built to 66 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 3: protect the city, that is the NYPD, then we know 67 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 3: that we can do a good amount of work to 68 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: mitigate some of these risks. It doesn't mean that we're 69 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: going to see her out the risk. It doesn't mean 70 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: that there won't be another attack at some point in 71 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 3: the future. But the MIPD has counter terrorism capabilities, They 72 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 3: have people who are trained in intelligence gathering, in counter intelligence. 73 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: They have specially but hasn't he said he specifically wants 74 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 2: to get rid of those units. 75 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 3: Well, he has come out in support of abolishing a 76 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 3: group called the SRG, which stands for a Strategic Response Group. 77 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: It is a special unit within the NYPD's Critical Response 78 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: Command and it's basically meant to respond to large casualty events, 79 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 3: to do large crowd control. But their members are specifically 80 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 3: trained in counter terrorism. And so you know, this is 81 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: why I was so perplexed by the context of the bombing. 82 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: A couple of Saturdays ago. You had an individual who 83 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 3: was leading a protest that was touching the subject matter 84 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 3: of Islamic terrorism about a week out from the hostilities 85 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 3: kicking off in Iran. Two red flags right there. That 86 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 3: individual inspired a counter protests. He has a history of, 87 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: you know, being counter protested, sometimes violently, so that's another 88 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 3: red flag. And then all of this is met to 89 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: take place outside a very sensitive location in Gracing mansion, 90 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 3: and yet SRG was not on the scene. They were 91 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: on standby nearby. But you know, you have to start 92 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 3: to suspect that that decision reflected the mayor's distaste for 93 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 3: that group. And so I'm hoping that this will be 94 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 3: the wake up call that he needs. Certainly it's a 95 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 3: wake up call for a lot of people in New 96 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 3: York City, and the question is going to be what 97 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 3: do we do from here? You know, it's not just 98 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 3: the SRG that the mayor has come out against. He 99 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 3: is someone who has been critical of other surveillance tactics, 100 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 3: particularly in and around mosques and the Islamic jihadist threat. 101 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 3: But that's something that we need to reconsider now that 102 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,119 Speaker 3: we know that these attacks are are are going to happen. 103 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 3: I mean we've had a handful and just a matter 104 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 3: of you know, ten days or so. 105 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: Well, let's be honest. I mean, he doesn't really like 106 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: the police in general. 107 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: He made it pretty clear or that he's not a 108 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: fan of policing in the years that he was on 109 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: a state assemblyman man. 110 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: And then he. 111 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: Gets it into it he's campaigning and he's still somewhat 112 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: anti police. I think he kind of was waffling because 113 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: he's trying to get everybody's vote and people went, oh, 114 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: I think what he gets into office, he's actually going 115 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: to be pro police. But then just a couple of 116 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: weeks ago we have that snowball fight and he made 117 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: it pretty clear that he's like, I'm not going to 118 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 2: take care of the cops. 119 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: Then they're still there for him. 120 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 2: I just want to point out that when this happens 121 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 2: at Gracie Mansion, they show up. 122 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, they always show up. And that's 123 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 3: the thing that really is the most inspiring thing about 124 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 3: law enforcement in this country. Right whenever they take action, 125 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 3: they are by definition subordinating their own safety and security 126 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: in service of the communities that they are working in 127 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: at the time. And they do that knowing that it's 128 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 3: a thankless job. They do that knowing sometimes that the 129 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 3: people they're serving are openly hostile to their very existence, 130 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 3: like mayor Mom, Donnie. But I think you're right. I 131 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 3: think his natural disposition is to be oppositional toward law enforcement, 132 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 3: and he has fallen right into that. You know, after 133 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 3: taking office. You know, people say, well, you know, he 134 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 3: made these changes on the campaign trail, at least in 135 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: his rhetoric, and I think, you know, his hand was 136 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,119 Speaker 3: essentially forced. You had a really tragic mass casualty event 137 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 3: happened during the campaign. You had the mass shooting at 138 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 3: three forty five Park Avenue where an NYPD officer did 139 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 3: a le Islam lost his life. And I think that 140 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 3: that really kind of made him understand that if he 141 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 3: was going to have a real shot at getting the 142 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 3: vote of moderates or people who were on the fence 143 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: about him, that he was going to have to at 144 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: least change his tune. I didn't buy it at the time. 145 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 3: I very much don't buy it now, and I suspect 146 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 3: that some New Yorkers are having buyers remorse on that. 147 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: Interesting. 148 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: So let's go to Michigan. Yeah, we had this attack 149 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: in Michigan. It was interesting to see how this went 150 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: down because obviously they went over one of the biggest 151 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: that he went after, one of the biggest synagogues in 152 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: the entire country. It's called Temple Israel. It's in Bloomfield, Michigan. 153 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: The guy had family over in Lebanon, members of Husbillah. 154 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: They were targeted in an attack and killed. They lost 155 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: children in that attack, which I think is a devastating situation. Also, 156 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: this is why parents that become terrorists, put their kids 157 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: in danger. Let's be honest, like, this is not this country, 158 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: this is another country. This is war, this is terror. 159 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: He has obvious ties to this family, that is concerning. 160 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: He is a naturalized citizen here in Michigan. Then he 161 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: decides that he's going to attack a synagogue temple Israel 162 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: in Bloomfield, and he packs his car filled with fireworks. 163 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: So obviously this. 164 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: Is kind of an amateur attempt, but still we know 165 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: that this is someone coming from a place of having 166 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: family members who also launch terror attacks. He drives into 167 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: the synagogue, has a gun. We've heard that there were 168 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: shots fired. He ends up dying in the attack. He's 169 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 2: the only one, Thankfully, he is the only person. None 170 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: of the children in the synagogue were hurt, but it 171 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 2: could have been incredibly bad. The reporting after the fact 172 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: is so interesting to me because these headlines are like 173 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: man drives into temple after family members are killed in Lebanon, right. 174 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: And as if it was as if it was someone 175 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: else's fault but the attacker. 176 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: Right, And as if anything that we can even justify 177 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: that any type of grief would be acceptable for you 178 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: to then attempt to kill hundreds of children right. 179 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 3: And this is often coming from the very same people who, 180 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 3: in the wake of an attack like nine to eleven, 181 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 3: for example, cautioned against, you know, blaming entire groups for 182 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 3: what a handful of individuals did. And they were right then, 183 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 3: but they're wrong now. They're not willing to be consistent 184 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 3: in terms of their reasoning, and it is frustrating. 185 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: Let me tell you. 186 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: That's why I think it is frustrating that we can't 187 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: do something when we know because they knew that he 188 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: was connected, and that to me is frustrating. I have 189 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: friends in that area. I have friends over in ham 190 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: Tranmick and Dearborn who have said, you don't know what 191 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: it was like for us after nine to eleven. Well, okay, 192 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: so if we allow unvetted people to come in with 193 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: radicalized ideology, that will happen. Those preconceived notions will come 194 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 2: back if we don't do what the President has been 195 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: talking about making our country safe. 196 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. I think one of the main lessons 197 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: here is that we have to be much more thorough 198 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 3: when it comes to vetting and making decisions about who 199 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: gets to come into our country. The fact that this 200 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 3: individual seemed to have had family members who were members 201 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 3: of a foreign terrorist organization that should have been a 202 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 3: flag red enough to stop that process. And it's true, 203 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 3: and yet he ended up in the United States anyway. 204 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 3: And you know, so that's a wake up call in 205 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 3: a way because it just makes very clear that there 206 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 3: are likely already many many people here who are openly 207 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: sympathetic to foreign terrorist organizations and are willing to die 208 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 3: in order to attack the United States. And you know, look, 209 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,479 Speaker 3: some of these individuals, like the alleged attacker in Bloomfield, 210 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 3: you know, there their ties are going to be clear, right. 211 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 3: There are other individuals who are going to end up 212 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 3: here who are either naturalized as as young children who 213 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 3: are going to be radicalized while on US soil. And 214 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 3: that's a risk that you know, is not as easily mitigatable, 215 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 3: which that. 216 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: Kind of sounds like what happened in New York, right. 217 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, So these are two individuals who are US citizens, 218 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 3: they're teenagers, you know, they they got radicalized at some 219 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 3: point in the last few years and decided to drive 220 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 3: from Pennsylvania to New York to carry out a terrorist attack. 221 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 3: And that's an idea that that really hits home for me. 222 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people don't know this, but 223 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 3: I went to a high school on Long Island called 224 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 3: Clark High School, and one of my classmates was an 225 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 3: individual named Samir Khan. And in the wake of nine 226 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 3: to eleven, this individual started making comments that we're very 227 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 3: disturbing in support of the attack, and you know, kind 228 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 3: of withdrew from mainstream life on campus, and we would 229 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: all kind of whisper to each other. And it turned 230 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 3: out that he would graduate and then go on to 231 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 3: join al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and was eventually 232 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 3: killed in a drone strike with ama Alaalaki. And so 233 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 3: you know, all that to say is like, these individuals 234 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: could be sitting next to you right now. 235 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: We wouldn't know we're sitting next to your child in class, 236 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: and you don't know. 237 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And so the question is what do 238 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 3: you do about that? And you know the answer is, 239 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: unfortunately not very much. We live in a free society, 240 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 3: which means you know that we're going to have to 241 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 3: absorb some risk, but that doesn't mean that there aren't 242 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 3: things that we can do to hard and soft targets, right, So, 243 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 3: you know, I believe it was security at the at 244 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: Temple Israel that that ended up taking down the attacker. Right, 245 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 3: So we have to think about how to use private 246 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 3: security to our advantage, how to harden soft targets, and 247 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 3: in cities like New York that are known terror targets, 248 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 3: we have to make sure that we are investing in 249 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 3: counter terrorism assets through our local law enforcement agencies and 250 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 3: having cross agency communications so that everyone is on the 251 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 3: same page about threats and how to approach them. 252 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 253 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 2: the Tutor Dixon podcast. So it's interesting that you brought 254 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: up the protecting a soft target and that there were 255 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 2: security guards in Temple, Israel that obviously when he came through, 256 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,599 Speaker 2: they shot, there was a bit of a firefight, he 257 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 2: ended up dying. I'm not sure that that's how he died. 258 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 2: I don't think that's been reported yet. Yeah, but it 259 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 2: was that. 260 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: He was encountered immediately. 261 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 2: We know that there had also been like some practice 262 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 2: run with the FBI in Temple, Israel. And I think 263 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: that you know, the folks that I've talked to, I 264 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: have friends that are also one of my friends that's 265 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 2: over there was saying my kids were at a country 266 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: Day School just down the street, a Jewish country day 267 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: school just down the street, and this was devastating to 268 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: think that this could have been their school. I think 269 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 2: that that's how all parents feel right now though about 270 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: our schools in general. It's like every school seems like 271 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 2: a soft target right now, whether it is a terror 272 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 2: attack from another country or a terror attack from someone 273 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: who is just going to go in and shoot up 274 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: a school. I think of those two things as the same. 275 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of us across the country 276 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: have said how do we prevent? And people go, oh, 277 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 2: you can't. You can't one hundred percent prevent. But I 278 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: think we were shown at Temple Israel that you can 279 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: be prepared and instead of just keeping our heads in 280 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 2: the sand and saying we don't want to have people, 281 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 2: we don't want to have armed guards in our school, 282 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: well maybe there's a way to do it that you 283 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 2: still are protected. I mean, I feel like there was 284 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 2: a major lesson that we got out of Michigan this 285 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 2: past week. 286 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 3: No, I think that's exactly right, And I understand that 287 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: it makes people uncomfortable, you know, to grapple with the 288 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 3: risk to their own lives into the lives of the 289 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 3: people that they care most about, and a lot of 290 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 3: people they deal with that psychologically by burying their heads 291 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 3: in the sand and pretending that the risk isn't there. 292 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 3: But we can't do that, right, and there are steps 293 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 3: that we can take. And you know, yes, is it 294 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 3: going to you know, cost us some part of ourselves, maybe, 295 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 3: but that alternative is much more preferable, you know, to 296 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 3: the worst possible outcomes. And so, yeah, it's true, we 297 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 3: can't zero out the risk. Yes, it's true, the risk 298 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 3: is still statistically remote. But I think that you know, 299 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: these these events teach us a very important lesson, which 300 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 3: is that there are things that we can do to 301 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 3: harden our soft targets. Taking those steps you know, are worthwhile. 302 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 3: I mean, it's certainly it's certainly proved to be the 303 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 3: case for Temple Israel, but there are other steps that 304 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 3: we can take as well. And some of the other 305 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: terrorist attacks that have happened recently, you know, highlight some 306 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 3: of those lessons. I'm thinking here of the shooting at 307 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: Old Dominion, where you had an individual who was previously 308 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 3: incarcerated after being convicted of offering material support to a 309 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 3: foreign terrorist organization in Isis and yet you have a 310 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 3: judge giving a sentence almost half that of what was requested, 311 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: and then the individuals still being eligible for early release. 312 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 3: It's like, you know, there's just another lesson here, which 313 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 3: is that when we do get lucky and catch these 314 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: individuals before they do harm, we have to do what's 315 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 3: necessary to keep them incapacitated all. 316 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: And that's another one where we don't know how bad 317 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: that attack would have been hadn't been those students, because 318 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: they they rustled him down. I mean, they took care 319 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 2: of him on their own. We still ended up losing 320 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 2: someone and an unnecessary life loss. To your point, I've 321 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: heard experts even say that he got eleven years. I 322 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: think what he served six of those years, So he 323 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 2: was sentenced for essentially colluding on terrorism. Yeah. Yeah, it's 324 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: just like being a trader. You would think that eleven 325 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 2: years is not even an option. 326 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 3: Right, I mean, you know when you consider his age 327 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 3: at the time of sentencing, right, we knew that this 328 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 3: man was going to be released given that sentence as 329 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: a young person who with no indication right that he 330 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: changed his ideology, with no indication that he would no 331 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 3: longer be a threat. And yet he was just released 332 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: into the community for what because he completed some treatment program. 333 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 3: You know, this highlights just a broader problem with the 334 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 3: left with respect to criminal justice, one that I've been 335 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 3: writing about for about a decade now. You know, the 336 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 3: left is consistently pushing this narrative that America has a 337 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 3: quote unquote mass incarceration problem, that you know, we are 338 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: draconian police state, that we're too harsh, that our criminal 339 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 3: justice system is just you know, locking people up and 340 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 3: throwing away the key. And the truth that couldn't be 341 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 3: further from the truth. The reality is that ending up 342 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 3: in prison of the United States is quite difficult to do. 343 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 3: It takes him doing. You have to be either convicted 344 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 3: of a very very very serious, often violent defense, or 345 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 3: you have to have a very very lengthy criminal history. 346 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 3: And you know, this is illustrative of that, because you 347 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 3: have an individual who is convicted of one of the 348 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 3: most serious things that I think it could be convicted of, 349 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 3: which is offering support to a foreign terrorist organization and 350 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 3: you know, plotting against the United States of America, and 351 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 3: yet this guy still gets out before serving even a 352 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 3: full decade. He should never have been allowed out right, 353 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 3: the options should have been either life in prison, the 354 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 3: death penalty, or deportation upon release. And yet you know 355 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 3: that that that wasn't the case. And so I think 356 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 3: this is just another lesson learned here. When we do 357 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 3: get lucky, when we when our when our our systems 358 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 3: work to identify threats before harm comes to pass, we 359 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 3: have to do everything we can to mitigate those threats 360 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 3: for as long as we possibly can. That individuals should 361 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 3: have received the longest possible sentence under the law, and 362 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 3: he should have been made to serve every single day 363 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 3: of it. Had that happened, these individuals would have still 364 00:17:59,359 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 3: been alive. 365 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 2: So is there a way to go back and look 366 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 2: at other people that are in this situation? Because this 367 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 2: was this was a perfect example of someone who was 368 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: given a light sentence got out early, a very light sentence, 369 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 2: the wrong sentence. I can't even like put enough emphasis 370 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 2: on they just gave this guy a break. He was 371 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 2: obviously a bad dude. He came out and did exactly 372 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 2: what he was planning on doing from the beginning. It 373 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 2: was like, did you just give him six years to 374 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: sit there and think about how to do it? You know, 375 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 2: this was obviously a bad guy. How many other guys 376 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 2: are like this that I believe the Left would just 377 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 2: I believe the Left would open the prison doors of 378 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: every prison in this country and just let everybody go 379 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: free without asking what they did. Well. 380 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 3: I think they would certainly like to do that for 381 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 3: a good number of the prisoners. I mean, you know, 382 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 3: just relatively recently you had people like Joe Biden on 383 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 3: the campaign trail promising to cut incarceration by fifty percent. 384 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 3: I mean, do you understand the level of criminal you 385 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 3: would have to release in order to get to that. 386 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 3: I mean, we're so often unfavorably compared to other Western 387 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 3: European democracies on issues like incarceration, And what people don't 388 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 3: get is that for us to match to a chief 389 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 3: parody with those Western European democracies, we would have to 390 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 3: release something like seventy five percent of our incarcerated population. 391 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 3: These are people who are convicted of the most serious 392 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 3: violent of fences, who have somewhere between ten and twelve 393 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 3: prior arrests, five and six prior convictions, and yet are 394 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 3: still going to get out after serving a median amount 395 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 3: of time that you know, hovers around sixteen months in 396 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 3: this country. Despite all of that, and yet you know, 397 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 3: the narrative continues this idea that we have a mass 398 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 3: incarceration problem. It's one that New York City's Mayor's overun 399 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 3: mom done. 400 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: He ran on right. 401 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 3: I mean, this is his rise to office was built 402 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 3: around two things, you know, defunding the police and no 403 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 3: new jails. And you know, again like these lessons are 404 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 3: going to need to be learned over and over again. 405 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 3: But this history is so recent that it really makes 406 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 3: you scratch your head. Why on Earth make these choices? 407 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 3: I wish I had a good answer for you, but 408 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 3: I do think that a federal official, state officials need 409 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 3: to go back look at who's incarcerated for these kinds 410 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 3: of charges, reassess how we can keep them behind bars, 411 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 3: whether it's with new charges or just you know, really 412 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 3: upping the intelligence gathering apparatus so that these individuals can 413 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:21,719 Speaker 3: be monitored when they're released. 414 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: Well, and we need people that are in Washington who 415 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: are willing to go through and do that. We have 416 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: a very interesting situation right now with Democrats refusing to 417 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 2: fund DHS. And it's a very strange situation because they've 418 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 2: fully funded ICE, but they're like, we don't want ICE 419 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 2: to actually have money, so we're not going to pay 420 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: for TSA. Nobody can travel anywhere. It's a total nightmare. 421 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 2: We have now three attacks under our belt and still 422 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 2: no Homeland Security funding. 423 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: It is outrageous. 424 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 2: And I'll say here in Michigan, the Senator from Michigan, 425 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 2: Alyssa Slotkin, voted against DHS funding and then went out 426 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 2: the next day and was like, this is why we 427 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 2: need DHS funding. 428 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: Give me a break. And I say this because she 429 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: is very manipulative. 430 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: She is a former CIA analyst or not a analyst, yes, 431 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 2: a former CIA analyst who was out there, and she 432 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 2: knows exactly how to manipulate the words that she uses. 433 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: I think she's incredibly dangerous. I think that she is 434 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: a darling among the Democrat Party. And as we are 435 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: going into the midterms and then the twenty twenty eight election, 436 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 2: I heard people saying, you know who, they don't even 437 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 2: have a candidate. 438 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: There's nobody, there's nobody rising to the ranks. 439 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 2: And I am reminded that Barack Obama came out as 440 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: a freshman senator and ran for office and became President 441 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 2: of the United States, and she is currently a freshman senator. 442 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: And I say that, because I also think a CIA 443 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 2: analyst would have information about exactly how many, how much, 444 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 2: how many terror threats there are, and how exposed we 445 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: are in this country. Even former CIA analyst Sarah Adams 446 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 2: has been reporting on this for quite a while now, 447 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 2: saying that we have thousands of terror threats and she 448 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 2: said she believes there will be an attack. So how 449 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: does one CIA analyst come out and say we're we 450 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 2: are really truly under threat on US soil, and the 451 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: other who has actual power to do something about it, 452 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 2: doesn't do anything. 453 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I think this is the problem with politics, right, 454 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, partisan politics elevates being a team 455 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 3: player above everything else. And this is one of the 456 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 3: things that I think frustrates a lot of the American 457 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 3: people about the individuals that are supposed to represent them. 458 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 3: And it's one of the reasons why Congress as an 459 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 3: institution continues to pull so low in terms of trust 460 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 3: of the American people. I think everyone understands that government's 461 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 3: first and foremost duty is to keep the citizen resafe. 462 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 3: That is what it exists to do. Right. If you know, 463 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,479 Speaker 3: going back to the Federalist papers, if men were angels, 464 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 3: no government would be necessary, right is that is at 465 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 3: the core of the American idea, and so I think 466 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 3: it is mind boggling for people when they see, you know, 467 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 3: a funding for the sort of key institution's task with 468 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 3: keeping the country safe being held hostage as a political football. 469 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 3: No one benefits from that, you know. I think Democrats 470 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: should absolutely get behind a vote to fully fund these agencies, 471 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 3: especially in the wake of these terrorist attacks. And if 472 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 3: you can't do that then then I you know, I 473 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 3: don't know what the future is ultimately going to hold, 474 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 3: but I think it's going to be up to the 475 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 3: American people in these next couple of election cycles to 476 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 3: articulate to their elected representatives just how important these issues 477 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 3: are to them. 478 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 479 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: a Tutor Dixon podcast. Let me ask you something very controversial. Sure, 480 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 2: there has been discussion of denaturalization for people who have 481 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 2: been in some way connected to terror, and I think 482 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: that there are a lot of people that say, if 483 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 2: you can denaturalize someone, where does that stop. And there's 484 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: a lot of fear over that concept. But if you 485 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: know that the person is connected to an outside terror 486 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 2: org that they want to harm, Americans that they have 487 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 2: not assimilated, they do not see this as their country. 488 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: Should that be an option? 489 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 3: I think it should absolutely be on the table. Look, 490 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 3: denaturalization is already something that sits or it's already an 491 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 3: option that can be exercised. The idea that someone remains 492 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 3: entitled to naturalized citizenship after pledging loyalty to a foreign 493 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 3: terrorist organization and trying to actively undermine and attack the 494 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 3: very country that has given them a home. I think 495 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 3: this is one of those sort of eighty twenty issues 496 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 3: where the vast majority of Americans will understand that, no, 497 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 3: there's actually nothing really all that controversial about denaturalizing those individuals. Now, 498 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 3: you know, you exactly the right question, which is where 499 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 3: does that where does the buck stop? 500 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 2: Right? 501 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 3: You know, where is the line going to be? And 502 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 3: I think that's ultimately a question that has to be 503 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 3: answered through the political process. I think most Americans you know, 504 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 3: understand that, yeah, we should give people, you know, the 505 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 3: the US, the hospitality and all the rights that come 506 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 3: with US citizenship. And you know, so denaturalization probably shouldn't 507 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 3: be on the table for something as you know, uh, 508 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 3: a low level as like uh, you know, a petty 509 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 3: criminal conviction for example, right, or even something more serious. Right. 510 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, and a regular American citizen is 511 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 3: going to be denaturalized for say the UI. But when 512 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 3: you're talking about offering material support to foreign terrorist organizations, 513 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 3: when you're talking about plotting uh to kill Americans uh, 514 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 3: I think that absolutely has to be on the table, 515 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 3: and it would be crazy for it not to be. 516 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: It seems like anything anything now that is not about 517 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 2: keeping someone here not. You know, there's this people have 518 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: called it suicidal empathy. That we are a society that 519 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: believes that everybody needs to be coddled and everybody needs 520 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: to be protected and everybody is the same. And I 521 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: think that is a hard thing for Americans to that 522 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 2: concept of other cultures are very different from ours, and 523 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: there are times when people from a different culture that 524 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 2: want to do as harm do come to the United States. 525 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 2: And I also think it is confusing when you see 526 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: the attack in New York, you have to somewhat say, well, 527 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 2: where were the parents in that case? Because they came 528 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: over and they became naturalized citizens. So then how far 529 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: back do you look and do you connect the child 530 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 2: and the parent to the same thing. And I think 531 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 2: that that's something even we're seeing today in school shootings 532 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 2: when a child goes into a school, we've now seen 533 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 2: parents that have been prosecuted for that crime as well. 534 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 2: So how deep do you think this would go if 535 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 2: you ended up with a situation like we saw in 536 00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: New York. 537 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's hard to say, right, I mean, 538 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 3: because there, at least as of now, there's no indication 539 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 3: that the parents of those two teenagers, you know, shared 540 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 3: their views. I mean, these are people who were very 541 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 3: successful in America, you know, who, by all accounts, seem 542 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 3: to have at least checked a lot of the boxes 543 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 3: that constitute the American dream. 544 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:17,239 Speaker 2: Right. 545 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 3: These two individuals were raised in beautiful, very expensive homes 546 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 3: in a nice, quaint suburb of Pennsylvania, you know, so 547 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 3: there was every reason for them to continue the assimbilation process. 548 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 3: And the same could have been said of Semir Khan, 549 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 3: my former classmate. Right, this was an individual who was 550 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 3: living a very nice and comfortable life and an Idylliclyland suburb. 551 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 3: And so, you know, I think this just highlights the 552 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 3: unpredictable nature of this ideology, and you know, highlights that 553 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 3: a lot of people can be susceptible to it. I 554 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,959 Speaker 3: think Americans have sort of grown accustomed to this idea 555 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 3: that life here is so good because we understand and 556 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 3: share the sort of cultural inheritance of the States, that 557 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 3: it's almost impossible to come away from that hostile to it. 558 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 3: But there are a lot of people who don't share 559 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 3: that ideology, whose brains and hearts are much more fragile 560 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 3: than ours and much more susceptible to being talked into 561 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 3: this sort of toxic, hateful, and ultimately suicidal ideology that 562 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 3: inspires groups like ISIS and al Qaeda and Hesbalah and Hamas. 563 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: And we have to be worry about that. 564 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 3: We have to understand that those threats are real, they're here, 565 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 3: and we have to take steps in the face of 566 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 3: them to mitigate our risks. 567 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: You make such a good point about the fact that 568 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: these people oftentimes don't know that their own family member 569 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: is being radicalized, and this is happening in weird spaces 570 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: and dark places on the internet. I imagine. 571 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: I think we watched so many movies and we were like, 572 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 2: my mom will always be like, you know, if this 573 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 2: were my afternoon show. 574 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: They would confess at the end, and they would be 575 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: put in jail. 576 00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 2: And I'm like, yes, I know, if life were only 577 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 2: like you know whatever Tucker and Rex or touch Rex 578 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 2: and Hutch or whatever it is that she watches every day. 579 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 2: But honestly, I think we do think that the government 580 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 2: has our back, you know, like they're listening to everything, 581 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 2: they know exactly what's going on there in all these 582 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 2: dark places. How much do you think the government really knows? 583 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: How often are these people? I mean, for example, the 584 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: guy obviously, the old Dominion GUYE they knew a lot 585 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 2: and he wasn't being monitored. So we have this distrust 586 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 2: for they do know or they don't know, and they're 587 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: not doing enough. Is what do you think is really happening? 588 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean here again we have another example of 589 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 3: how the sort of left and libertarian left critique of 590 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: you know, these institutions is so off base. Right, you 591 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 3: have this entire narrative built around the idea that America 592 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 3: is a surveillance state, that every single phone call, text, 593 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 3: an email is being monitored and read, and the NSA 594 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 3: is in every single room, and there's no such thing 595 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 3: as privacy anymore. And yet you can have an individual 596 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 3: who is convicted of a terrorist attack or trying to 597 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 3: plot one, you know, leaves a prison and then no 598 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 3: one's watching him to the point where he's able to 599 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 3: acquire firearms, plan and then carry out an attack on 600 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 3: a major American university. And so again I hope that 601 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 3: this is a wake up call for people. America is 602 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 3: a very large country. We're talking about three hundred and 603 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 3: fifty some odd million people. You can't watch three hundred 604 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 3: and fifty million people all day every day. There are 605 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 3: our threats that are going to go and fly under 606 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 3: the radar. We have to be attuned to that, and 607 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 3: we have to invest more in all of the things 608 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 3: that people say we've been doing too much of but 609 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 3: clearly haven't been doing enough of. 610 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very interesting when we have situations like this 611 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 2: that people are saying dismantled DHS altogether, and here we're 612 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 2: talking about this like there's there's never enough ability to 613 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 2: make sure that the bad guys are being weeded out 614 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: and that we actually see them. And to think that 615 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 2: we would get rid of an entire organization or entire 616 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 2: agency that we found it after nine to eleven to 617 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: make sure we were safe. I mean, is there is 618 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: quite a bit of controversy going on right now in 619 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 2: the country and certainly in the political space, especially as 620 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: we come up to these midterms and we have people 621 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 2: going why are we not protecting this country? Why are 622 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: we not concerned with protecting this country? And that the 623 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 2: Democrats are very convincing in why you shouldn't. And I 624 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: just never thought we would get here, especially after you 625 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 2: see attack after attack, the spin that they can put 626 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 2: on it, Like I said, having people coming out and saying, well, 627 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: these attacks wouldn't have happened if we had an attack 628 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 2: Deron and I'm like, these people were here, then it 629 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 2: moved here yesterday. What are you talking about? You know? 630 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 2: So I think it's fascinating. I think what you do 631 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 2: is fascinating. Thank you so much for being on the 632 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,479 Speaker 2: podcast today, and thank you for all of the research 633 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 2: that you do. 634 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: Raphael. 635 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. 636 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: I appreciate it absolutely, and thank you all for joining 637 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 2: us on the podcast. 638 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: I thought this episode was fascinating. 639 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 2: I'm like, really interested in how we are protected and 640 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: how we know these things are happening. So I asked 641 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 2: you to make sure you listen and you share it 642 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: with your friends. You can get it wherever you get 643 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 2: your podcasts. The iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, Rumble or YouTube 644 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 2: at Tutor Dixon, just make sure you join us and 645 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 2: share and have a blessed day.