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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast. George nor

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Speaker 1: with you, Denise Bowdan with us, and Jen Bray you

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Speaker 1: with us. She's the executive director and co founder of

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Speaker 1: Redemption Role. Let's bring her Jen in now if we can.

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Speaker 1: Jen tell us about Redemption Role. Hi, George H So, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Redemption Row. That was a passion project that began during

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Speaker 1: COVID when I was locked out of going inside the

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Speaker 1: facilities during the pandemic, and I had spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time with a lot of individuals inside a maximum

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Speaker 1: security prison training them in conflict resolution. And they decided

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Speaker 1: that even during the lockdown, they still needed to have

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Speaker 1: some positive prison programming because even though people like myself

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Speaker 1: were unable to come in and provide self help workshops,

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Speaker 1: the parole board was still holding hearings via video conference,

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Speaker 1: and that created kind of a catch twenty two. How

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Speaker 1: can you be prepared for the parole board and not

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Speaker 1: be able to have the benefits of self help groups

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Speaker 1: because the volunteers are locked out of the prison. And

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Speaker 1: so what ultimately had to happen was I had to

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Speaker 1: rely on these very amazing human beings that I had

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Speaker 1: trained for several years in nonviolence and communication skills. And

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Speaker 1: we banded together and I said, I'm going to send

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Speaker 1: you information and curriculum and on reading material and you

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Speaker 1: guys are going to do this on your own without

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Speaker 1: me physically being there. And they did, and so Redemption

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Speaker 1: Row was created. And my my lead teammate, mister Joel Baptiste,

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Speaker 1: came to me and said, um, I have I have

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Speaker 1: a guy we need to work on, and he is

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Speaker 1: getting ready to go to parole board. And I said, okay, great,

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Speaker 1: let's like what what can we do? And he said, well,

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Speaker 1: he's kind of a special individual. I said, all right, well,

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Speaker 1: everybody in there a special, So tell me what makes

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Speaker 1: this person super special. And he said, well, he's been

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Speaker 1: denied parole fifteen times. And I thought, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah. And and so he's not telling me

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Speaker 1: who he is. He just keeps hyping him up. And

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Speaker 1: he said, he's you know, he's this you know older

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's an elderly prisoner. He said,

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Speaker 1: he's just absolutely adored by the prison population and we've

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Speaker 1: all just you know, see him as you know this

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Speaker 1: wise sage, and he said, he's a very good friend

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Speaker 1: of mine, and I really believe if given the chance,

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Speaker 1: we can work with him over time. His prolole board

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Speaker 1: is not going to be for another year. However, I

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Speaker 1: think if we spend some time, um, we can we

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Speaker 1: can work with him and we can get him, um

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Speaker 1: to be able to articulate, um, a strong demonstration of

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Speaker 1: self awareness, because that's really where his hang up is,

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Speaker 1: is just articulating his strong points. And I said, cool,

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Speaker 1: like we can do that, and he said, it's your

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Speaker 1: hands to hand. Wow. I went, oh, like, like is it?

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Speaker 1: Are you? Are you punking me? Like is this real?

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Speaker 1: And I said, no, this is my friend. And I said,

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Speaker 1: well then your friend is my friend, and um, let's

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Speaker 1: do this. I'm sorry, go ahead, no, no, no, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So um so UM we put together an entire like

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Speaker 1: one year plan um and that was, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: consisted of a lot of academic material that was based evidence,

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Speaker 1: based on shame, guilt violence, a lot of intersectional curriculum

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Speaker 1: as well. And I would copy things and send them

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Speaker 1: into to mister Baptiste and you know, in the meantime,

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Speaker 1: mister Babtiste is putting together a team of individuals that

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Speaker 1: can also help him, and so he put together a

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Speaker 1: very very diverse team and they worked very well together,

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Speaker 1: the three of them, Cameron and Artie and Joel, and

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Speaker 1: they spent numerous hours with with Sir, hand walking the

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Speaker 1: track with him, visiting with him, talking about childhood trauma,

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Speaker 1: how to process, you know, situational violence, and how to

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Speaker 1: articulate certain macro issues into your own personal life and

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Speaker 1: what do certain terms, what they mean. And we were

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Speaker 1: able to, over an entire year, get him to a

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Speaker 1: point where he really did understand the core of his rehabilitation.

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Speaker 1: Although he has set a benchmark in correction rehabilitation and

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Speaker 1: he needed to articulate that. And it was it's much like,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of like what a resume coach, a

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Speaker 1: prereer coach does for people on the outside. And what

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Speaker 1: we did was just help him understand the amazing things

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Speaker 1: that he's done and get him to that point where

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Speaker 1: he can feel confident in himself and demonstrating who he

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Speaker 1: is as an individual. And we were met with great

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Speaker 1: success with that. As you know, Jen, I've had on

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Speaker 1: the program Robert F. Kennedy Junior. We've had Paul Schrade,

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Speaker 1: who was a wounded victim in that horrible situation. They

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Speaker 1: all believe that there was another gunman involved in Another

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Speaker 1: member of the Kennedy family believes that as well. Was

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Speaker 1: any of that considered by the Parole Board which agreed

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Speaker 1: to parole sor answer hand, But the governor said no, right,

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Speaker 1: So here's this here when we're when we're dealing with

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Speaker 1: parole um. What parole is is not a forum to

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Speaker 1: relitigate case and this is the forum to demonstrate self awareness.

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Speaker 1: That's what it is. And so in as we present

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Speaker 1: an individual to parole, we are not wanting to um

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Speaker 1: dive into the mechanations of their case. What we want

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Speaker 1: to do is stick to the criteria that the parole

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Speaker 1: Board sets forward, which is a rubric that they literally

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Speaker 1: have to check the boxes to make sure that this

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Speaker 1: person is not a danger to society regard. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine, Sir Hann, Sir Hann appeared on the Inside

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Speaker 1: Edition program with David Frost, and I watched clips of

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Speaker 1: that the jen and he didn't deny the shooting. I

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Speaker 1: mean he didn't say he did, but he explained reasons

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Speaker 1: why he was upset and things like that that you know,

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Speaker 1: he feels as if Kennedy basically betrayed the Palestinian people

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Speaker 1: at a time when he should have been supporting them.

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Speaker 1: But it was a strange interview where he just sounded

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Speaker 1: like he was guilty. Did you have you seen that clip?

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Speaker 1: I have, I've I've watched it several times. Is my

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Speaker 1: perception right about that? I mean, he doesn't deny its

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Speaker 1: short answer yes, long answer no. And I will tell

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Speaker 1: you from a rehabilitated standpoint, what I see is a

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Speaker 1: young man who you know, you have to understand that

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Speaker 1: Sir Hann at the time of his trial, you know

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Speaker 1: what his what his lawyers were ultimately trying to do

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Speaker 1: was spare him from the death penalty, right, and so

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Speaker 1: they were trying to get him to UM be seen

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Speaker 1: as somebody who was mentally incompetent. And what we have

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Speaker 1: with in the case of Sir hand and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: many many men, UM is an ego and a shame factor.

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Speaker 1: And he did not, and this is well documented, Um

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Speaker 1: did not want to be seen as someone that was crazy,

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Speaker 1: that was out of his mind. It was greater for

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Speaker 1: him to accept guilt and say, of course I did this,

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Speaker 1: you know, rather than UM be seen as mentally incapacitated,

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Speaker 1: didn't he? And he did, right, And this was kind

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Speaker 1: of like a last stance, although you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's one of those situations where you have like, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to I don't want people to think that

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Speaker 1: I'm mentally incapacitated, so I'm going to do a crazy thing. Right.

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Speaker 1: So we on the outside looking in to see that

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Speaker 1: as being like, why would you do that? But when?

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Speaker 1: But none of us have been in that position, and

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Speaker 1: when you're in that, inside that microcosm, in inside that

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Speaker 1: fish bowl, that seems like a rational decision is to

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Speaker 1: do that. And yeah, the David Frost interview isn't great.

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Speaker 1: It isn't great, but it explains a lot of things

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Speaker 1: and it's easily debunked. Right. Well, what I found, what

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Speaker 1: I found fascinating about that interview is that Sir hann

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Speaker 1: was had the gun on him because he went to

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Speaker 1: a gun range, had heard about a special rally that

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Speaker 1: was going to be in the area, and then heard

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Speaker 1: about this other one and decided to go. And he

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Speaker 1: was in an area that Robert Kennedy was not even

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Speaker 1: supposed to be walking through. That they changed the route

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Speaker 1: and it took him right by where Sir Han, Sir

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Speaker 1: Hann was. Had they not changed the round, he never

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Speaker 1: would have seen him in the first place. That I

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Speaker 1: found that to be interesting. Well, it's also very worthy

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Speaker 1: that Sir Hann himself has said that, you know, he

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Speaker 1: after he left the gun range, he wanted to go

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Speaker 1: play pool, or he went to Bob's Big Boy, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I now that I think about it,

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Speaker 1: Bob's Big Boy was the last free meal on the

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Speaker 1: streets that Sir Hann ever had, And that sort of

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Speaker 1: breaks my heart. But that Sir Hann had left the

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Speaker 1: gun range and went to Bob's Big Boy and had

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Speaker 1: food and socialized with his friends, and he wanted to

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Speaker 1: one of his friends wanted to go shoot pool, and

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Speaker 1: Sir Hann declined, and he wanted to go down to

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Speaker 1: where these parties were downtown. And I mean, in a

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Speaker 1: you know, array of events. This is this is where

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Speaker 1: we end up. Let's get some of these clips in here,

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Speaker 1: Jen before the break. Let's let's start with our first one.

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Speaker 1: We've got four short clips that were done for the

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Speaker 1: Redemption Role, the not for profit organization. Let's listen to

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Speaker 1: our first clip. It again, I want to say thank

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Speaker 1: you to everyone who has voted me and believe in

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Speaker 1: me through the many, many years of my incarceration. The

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Speaker 1: letters and cards have received from all ages, all walks

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Speaker 1: of life, from all over the world, bringing me happiness

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Speaker 1: and hope that I would be granted my freedom and

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Speaker 1: be able to be a positive member of society. And

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Speaker 1: legal workers, researchers, authors, documentarians and activists who have worked

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Speaker 1: my case over the years have sacrificed, oftentimes more than

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Speaker 1: their time and money. I am forever grateful and get

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Speaker 1: it to you. Thank you. I also wanted to thank

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Speaker 1: Jen and the entire Redemption Row California team for working

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Speaker 1: with me closely leading up to my successful POLE hearing

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Speaker 1: on August twenty seven, twenty twenty one, for their continued

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Speaker 1: support in my rehabilitated programming even after I was found

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Speaker 1: suitable for POLE, and by providing me with this opportunity

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Speaker 1: to be heard and to express myself to everyone listening.

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Speaker 1: His English is very very good, Jen, of course it is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's been in the US for almost what

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Speaker 1: seventy decades now, so of course his language is English

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Speaker 1: is very good. He's an extremely articulate and thoughtful individual.

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Speaker 1: He chooses his words very precisely, and he from what

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Speaker 1: I've I've never physically walked the track in prison with

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Speaker 1: their hand that those that have have said that when

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Speaker 1: he's engaged in conversation with people, sometimes he will say

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Speaker 1: a word and um, he will want to make sure

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Speaker 1: that the other person that's receiving his conversation understands the

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Speaker 1: contexts beside behind the words that he that he says.

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Speaker 1: So he's very thoughtful. Let's listen to another one of

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Speaker 1: the clips. When I began working the redemption role, jen

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Speaker 1: inside team of facilitators took me on a deep journey

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Speaker 1: of self awareness inside and took the time with me

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Speaker 1: a day to discuss the consort of the factors in

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Speaker 1: my life, which led me to make us decisions, helping

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Speaker 1: me understand myself on your level. I had not been

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Speaker 1: able to process articulate in the past. Working with them

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Speaker 1: for over a years a refining factor in my success

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Speaker 1: doing my ball dealing. When you just hear him talking

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Speaker 1: like that, you really wonder, this isn't the same kind

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Speaker 1: of guy. This guy is different. He is and that's

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Speaker 1: what that is what rehabilitation sounds and looks like. And

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Speaker 1: this man your listeners need to understand this man is

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Speaker 1: seventy eight years old. Okay, he has been parserrated over

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Speaker 1: fifty three years. That is over happening. Now He's on

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Speaker 1: the home stretch now, isn't he. He really and he

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Speaker 1: has put in the most work when it comes to

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Speaker 1: his rehabilitation. And I cannot emphasize this enough that Sir

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Speaker 1: Han truly embodies the entire CDCR population. And what I

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Speaker 1: mean by that is this Sir Haan was a youthful offender,

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Speaker 1: which means he was under the age of twenty six

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Speaker 1: at the age of his life crime, which means that,

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Speaker 1: you know, medical professionals have said that the brain is

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Speaker 1: not fully developed right prior to the age of twenty six,

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Speaker 1: which allows people to make irrational and impulsive decision. So

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Speaker 1: Sir Han was under the age of twenty six at

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Speaker 1: his life crimes. Not only that, but Sirhan was sent

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Speaker 1: to death row. Then his sentence was commutated to life

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Speaker 1: in prison. He's also an immigrant, He's also an elderly prisoner.

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Speaker 1: Sir Hann really checks all the boxes of everybody that

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Speaker 1: is in prison. So if Sir Hann is found suitable

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Speaker 1: for parole, guess what That means George, everybody sees the light.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knows if Sir Hank can get found suitable for parole,

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Speaker 1: I can too. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: every weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more