WEBVTT - Grace Potter 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.840 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:16.880 My guest today is Grace Potter, who has a new 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:22.159 album entitled Mother Road. Grace. One of the lyrics on 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.560 the album mentions In and Out Burger. Are you a 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:25.800 fan of In and Out Burger? 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:32.880 Yeah? Ever since I saw The Big Lebowski and there's 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:34.960 no In and Out Burgers in Vermont. So I saw 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.559 the movie and was like, my American dream was to 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.320 go to find it In and Out Burger at some 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:42.720 point in my life, and I did. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:45.080 So does it live up to the legend? 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.080 It does, especially when you breastfeed somebody in an In 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:50.479 and Out Burger, which did happen. 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:52.160 What happened there? 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:56.760 I had been drinking and I was out with some 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.400 friends I had been I was also a nursing new 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.360 mother who was given a night out on the town 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:08.200 with the girls, and I had way too much alcohol 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.480 to go home, and just like pump and there was 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.520 a guy there who was like, I'll drink the milk. 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.440 So I was like, awesome. So I got a dude 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:19.440 drunk off of my booby milk at an In and 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.520 Out Burger at two in the morning in Hollywood. That's 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:23.160 a real story. 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.440 That's quite a story. So when you go to in 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:28.600 and Out, what do you order? 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.320 So I don't. I'm I don't do what everybody does. 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.800 I like. I have a very specific thing. I like 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:39.240 the I like a cheeseburger, but I don't if it's 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.720 American cheese, I don't want it. So I was. I 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.400 usually just say I want a cheeseburger, like just clean, simple, 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.840 no toppings, like no ketchup, no mustard, no mayo, no, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:50.960 none of that. Just like I want to know on 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.200 a fundamental level what the burger and the bread feel 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.720 about each other. That's the best way I feel I 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.760 can deduce whether it's worth going deeper in on an 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.840 ex laoratory level. And it was. So I just did 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.720 a plane burger. But because they were doing they had 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:08.960 cheddar as an option. I did it with cheddar, which 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:10.399 was just delicious. 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.520 Okay, the big thing in and Out is double double. 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.560 I didn't know that, But you didn't do that. 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.360 I didn't, I was. I was really just looking for 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.440 and this is I'm talking about first order. Ever that 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.840 that was way after the breastfeeding incident. Was was much later. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.520 But what I did the first time I got there 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.120 was just the plain plain Jane with cheddar cheese. And 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:38.079 then later, uh yeah, I tried the fries. I tried 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:41.280 the I did do this thing they say, if you 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:45.280 take a bite of the what's the one that has 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.919 the like the relish and the animal style? Animal style? 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.200 Thank you? So you do the animal style with a 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.080 doctor pepper and a fry, and there's like this flavor 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.640 that it creates in your mouth that apparently is very 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.960 similar to like butterscotch. It gives you like a weird 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.760 you know after it's like a flavored you know, somalie 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.680 a type thing. Anyways, I tried that. It did not 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.560 taste like butter scotch in my mouth, but it was delicious. 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.280 And if I snapped my fingers and you could have 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:14.800 any burger, what would that burger be? 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:20.600 Whoppers? Yeah, after all that, it's just because I grew 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.080 up in a place where there was no fast food, 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.240 so the closest one was a Burger King, and it 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.760 was I mean, it's still an hour and a half 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.680 drive to the Burger King. But it's sad to me 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:33.880 to think that that's the reality of my life. But 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.360 fast food is really rare for me. It's just something 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:41.880 that comes. It comes with the territory. If I guess 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.080 touring all the time, but it doesn't change the fact 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:49.040 that I like meat grown on a farm and fed 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.680 to me by the person who slaughtered the cow. So 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.720 it's a little different where I come from and Vermont. 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:56.560 Okay, you're from Waitsfield. 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:57.800 Yeah. 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.680 I went to college in Middlebury over the Hill No way. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.240 Oh yeah, my college roommate lives in Waitsfield. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:06.760 Ah. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:07.880 Do you know the Klars? 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.560 I know the name. And when I was I served 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.080 at a restaurant and there was a Verklar table that 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:16.920 they would have that they loved. It was like the 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.360 quarter table that they always had whenever they came in. 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.680 But I don't think I ever served them myself. I 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:24.120 just know of the Verklar table. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:28.599 Okay, So were your parents Did they grow up in Waysfield? 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.320 My dad is from Connecticut, my mom is from New Jersey. 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.400 They had that baby boomer back to the land moment 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:40.320 in the seventies where they had gone to Saint Lawrence University, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.400 and my dad graduated a little bit before my mom. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.960 But he just didn't want to stop skiing, so he 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.040 decided that he wanted to figure out a job, a 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:53.359 career path that would provide him the ability to ski 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.479 forever and have a reason. So he became a sign 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:02.000 maker and he does all the signs or for instance, 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.880 the American Ski Company, but also many other privately owned 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.960 mountains and ski areas. So that's that was his passion. 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.760 He followed it, and my mom was an editor, a 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.440 photographer and artists. It just lived lived the dream artist, 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.400 you know, hippie life here in Vermont and and really 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.960 brought a huge amount of the hippie glory that you 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.400 would imagine like the hill people in Vermont had they 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.000 were living that that exact dream. 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.159 Okay, so are you a skier? 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.520 I was, but I have mixed feelings about skiing now. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.200 I just think it's a really really expensive, silly pastime 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.680 and very dangerous. And everybody gets hurt all the time 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.000 that I know, And so the more people that I 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.080 know that have gotten hurt or just can't play music 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.839 because they broke their wrist or whatever, it is, like, Okay, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.240 it's not worth it. So for purposes of like my 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.400 greater purpose in the world is music, I'm not gonna 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.320 I don't want to be that guy that has to 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.599 tell the story about how I crashed skiing and that's 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.640 why I can't play guitar anymore. You know, it's not 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:07.040 worth it. 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:08.839 So one was the last time you got on the hill? 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:15.559 I was in Jackson, Wyoming after playing Downtown. It was, Yeah, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:20.640 it was twenty twenty nineteen. No, twenty twenty, it was 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.680 twenty twenty. Yeah, well it's not that long ago. It 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.280 was because we were in Jackson and I had to 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.680 show that I knew what I was talking about because 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.840 I was a competitive downhill ski racer and was raised 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.960 on that in that culture, and I thought nothing of 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.880 it until I went out into the world and saw 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:43.279 that not everybody gets to grow up like that. And 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.440 the second that I realized that my passion and my 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.520 purpose was something else other than winning, Because the only 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:51.719 reason I really wanted to be a GS skier was 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.240 because the grand slalom suits are really tight and they 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:00.880 reminded me of Ziggy star Dust and I'm not even 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.760 kidding that. I was like, if I get to dress 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.000 like Zaggy start Us and go super fast down a mountain, 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.200 then count me in. But beyond that, beyond the fancy 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.920 outfits and the going fast, I think I've managed to 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:14.480 figure out a career where I can do both of 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:15.000 those things. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:19.160 Anyways, you know, okay, if your father was a sign painter, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.000 it sounds like your mother was freelance. Doesn't sound like 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:24.920 there was a ton of money growing up. What was 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:26.280 the economic status? 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:31.600 It was a legit problem. We did end up renting 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.560 our house out a few winters and that's where I 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:37.080 ended up going to Albuquerque to visit my grandparents and 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.160 they lived out there, and we did have to do 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.560 the like the cross Country Walk of Shame, you know, 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.480 where my parents were limping along financially and needed to go, 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.240 you know, move back in with the parents, and we 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:54.200 homeschooled and had a really amazing cultural experience, which at 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.760 the time I was too young to understand that there 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.360 was financial reasons for that. I thought it was just 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:01.880 because we were going to go on a nice family 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:06.400 road trip, but actually we genuinely needed to, you know, 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.760 to step away from the expensive ski culture for a 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.440 hot minute there. And I think it was good. It 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:13.200 was character building. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:14.800 So how many kids in the family. 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.720 There's three. I'm the middle child. I've got an older 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:19.080 sister and a younger brother. 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.800 And what's the difference in age two. 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:23.640 Years between us. It's like that perfect. 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.200 I have the exact same situation. I'm the middle child too. 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.240 You are. And you know what, here's another interesting thing. 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.240 I happened to have an honorary doctorate of the Arts 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:38.199 from Middlebury Really, doctor Lefsetz, doctor Potter, nice to. 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.920 See, PhD. How did you get How did you get that? 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.679 I think they just wanted me to play the graduation 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.200 and they couldn't figure out how to. They'd been doling 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.640 out honorary degrees to me. I got one from Champlain College. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.360 I got an honorary doctorate of the Arts at Champlain College, 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.720 an honorary graduate's degree at Saint Lawrence, where I had 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.680 left to college. But you know, I think I just 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.760 put it out there into the world. I manifested it 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.280 into happening. I just said like, hey, listen, I'll play 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.840 your graduation. Just give me a fake degree. I'll hang 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:12.480 them on the wall, and you got to call me 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:13.400 doctor from now on. 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.280 Okay, So what are your older and younger siblings up to? 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.720 So my sister is a glass blower and is now 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.040 this is such a wild story, but in through the 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:31.960 world of glass she became the curator of a Doll 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.480 Museum because they needed glass eyeballs to replace these like 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:42.079 Victorian dolls, and she was just helping them source the eyeballs, 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:48.559 I believe. But ultimately, through some pretty wonderful just happenstance, 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:53.720 ended up in Virginia Beach at curating this museum. And 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:58.160 my brother Lee is he has epilepsy and nonverbal learning 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:03.520 disorder and also has gone through the mental health program 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:07.200 here in Vermont in every capacity he's been through the Ringer, 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:11.719 but has found that therapeutic expressive arts like poetry and 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:16.480 drawing has been kind of the main resource in his life. 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.360 Just like all of us artists that grew up in Potterville, 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.400 we all kind of got fed the potion at an 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.800 early age. And it's it's super inspiring to be around 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.840 him because the thing that I do that comes so 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:34.640 naturally doesn't come naturally necessarily to him, but it heals 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.880 him from the inside in such an amazing way. And 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.080 I'm happy because I'm home and I get to actually 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.079 see it because it's been kind of at a distance 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.280 for the last ten years. So we have our Hemingway 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:47.960 and Fitzgerald moments on the porch where we smoke cigarettes 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.680 and he reads me poetry, and it's been a new 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.439 realm of connection with me and him. But my sister 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.680 and I were always thick as thieves, you know, getting 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.000 into all kinds of trouble in the early days. 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.479 So your brother lives with your parents. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.520 Right now, he's living at home. Uh, he also has 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.559 a community based care program. So we actually just finished 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:15.679 along delving into what the future holds for him, because ultimately, 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:17.760 I think it's gonna it's gonna land on me and 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.080 my sister in a in a very real way pretty soon, 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.280 because it's just, you know, it's really challenging to have 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.199 the mental health world and try to work with it 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.200 and also have a crazy family like ours. Like we 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.040 change our minds all the time. We're very spontaneous, lightning 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.360 bolt type people. But when you're working with community based 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.520 care where these people need to like know where the 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.400 person is at all times and or have a driver 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.280 for him or take him to work, we are like, yeah, 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.760 but there's a bonfire over in the field and we're 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.680 gonna go jam. You should totally calmly and like, you know, 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.840 it just it's impossible. We are impossible. We are very 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:56.719 difficult people to work with. 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:02.520 Okay, if you're you're the middle child who's yea tends 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.840 to be overlooked. The hopes and dreams were in the 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.920 first one. They feel a little pressure, more than a little, 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.600 and there's all this attention on your brother. Where does 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.040 that leave you? Growing up? 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.200 I was. You know, it's interesting where I grew up. 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:21.080 Everybody calls me Trudy, and people who don't know me 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.600 I don't understand, or who think they know me don't 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.000 get that. But apparently for the first four years of 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.480 my life, I was almost completely mute, and I just 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.880 sat and sucked my thumb and sort of watched the world, 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:38.120 and they called me Gertrude Stein. I guess I apparently 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:42.200 just sat and sort of Whether it was judgmental critical 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:48.560 thinking going on or just flatlining, I'm not exactly sure, 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.800 but whatever was happening in my brain developmentally, I think 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.199 I felt it was safer to sort of be in 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.720 word with myself and just turn inward and hold on 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.959 tight to my own self soothing, And yeah, I was 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.559 a thumbsucker till I was like twelve. It got weird. 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:11.439 Okay, you know you're in the mountains, although las you're 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.520 growing up, I mean I went. I lived in Vermont 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.360 in the dark ages. Not only was there no internet, 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.040 there was no cable TV. There were no DVDs. Cable 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.920 TV and DVDs came in certainly while you were growing up. 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.680 But you were going to regular school, right. 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:34.600 I did go to regular school. I also, I'm legally blind, 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.719 so I did. There was a learning resource program that 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:42.400 Vermont had where it subsidized people with visual impairment and 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.000 hearing impairment. So I ended up in that room a 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:49.440 lot at face in elementary school. But I did, you know, 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:56.079 pretty early on feel that pull toward culture. And oddly enough, 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.920 in our tiny little town of Waitsfield in nineteen eighty six, 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.760 they opened a movie theater at the bottom of my hill. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.520 I mean, what are the chances? And it wasn't just 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.000 any movie theater. This guy had this opulent vision. I 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.200 think he was sort of a Gordon Gecko mountain man 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.920 guy who wanted to bring a little bit of New 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:20.680 York City to Vermont. And he built this place and 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.160 he called it Edison Studios. And it looked like an 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:28.960 Art Deco kind of Hollywood bowl looking place, A beautiful right, right, 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.840 I fall down the hill and land there so that 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.200 was my first job. I also worked at the video store. 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:35.920 If there had been a record store in town, you know, 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:40.080 I would have worked there. But I grew up hoping 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.160 that my parents would let me watch TV and movies 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.720 a little more than they did. But once it became 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:50.520 my job, it was easier to convince them to let 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:52.560 me be absorbed in that world. A bit. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.320 Tell me a little bit more about being legally blind. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:00.320 So you can kind of see as we get in 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.000 on that. I mean, this is not this is not 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.400 helpful for listeners at home that can't see what Bob 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:11.680 is looking at here. But I was born leely blind 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:16.120 and it's not degenerative. It's just the way that I see. 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.400 And I kind of made a specific choice to not 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.160 get corrective surgery. I did try wearing contact lenses for 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.800 a while. I also spent a lot of time as 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.840 a child taking my glasses off and making up new 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.480 names for myself and just hoping that people wouldn't know 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.280 it was still me. So I think I played around 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:40.080 with disguise because in my mind, I mean, I saw 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.600 something completely different when I took my glasses off, and 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:46.920 the world was kind of bright and sparkly, and unfamiliar, 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.840 like there was confetti falling, you know, in the color 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.200 of the general objects that I was seeing, but that 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.840 it wasn't It didn't matter what it was, as long 0:15:57.840 --> 0:15:59.480 as I knew there was something in front of me. 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.080 So I've always had really good depth perception, but I 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:07.160 just cannot cannot really sustain any level of focus on anything. 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:12.880 I cannot read far away or close up words. I 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.640 could probably tell you the color of somebody's eyes if 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:17.680 they got close enough to me, but I am far 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.120 sighted in a way that makes it extremely dangerous for 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:22.560 me to drive without my glasses on. 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:27.760 But if you're wearing your glasses, how's your vision perfect? 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.360 Yeah, I'm able to see. I mean, the legal blindness 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.080 is actually only in the state of Vermont because I 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.600 did my vision test in California when I lived out there, 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.800 and I passed. Is that not creepy? Super creepy. 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.200 I don't know. I'm going to stay off the highway 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:41.840 when you're there. 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:43.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.800 So you mentioned Ziggy Stardust and you mentioned, you know, 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.800 skiing one of the outfits. Ziggy Stardust came out in 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.400 nineteen seventy two, So how did you get exposed did 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.160 your parents play those albums? Had to learn that music. 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.400 My parents have a killer record collection because they had 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.600 a production company. Again with the skiing, trying to figure 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.080 out how to party in all the ski towns. They 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.480 started a company called dream On Productions, where they would 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.840 take photographs of the day's events, whether it was a 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.480 ski race or hockey or if they did the nineteen 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.600 eighty one Olympics and cruises and all kinds of crazy stuff, 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:24.040 and they would photograph everything that happened develop it that day. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.760 My mom would make the soundtrack and splice it all 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.320 together and do the edits while my dad was, you know, 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.640 manically trying to get this thing done, and they would 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:35.680 put it together into a slideshow and project it onto 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:40.320 the streets around these sporting events, almost like the precursor 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.879 to MTV. They would play music along to it and 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.760 create kind of a narrative of the day, and they 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.800 would pick sort of stars and local faces and characters 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:53.560 that they thought the townsfolk would enjoy and be like, oh, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.399 that's crazy Randy again, all the naked ski guy, you did, 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.080 the polar Bear plunge, whatever it was. So they we 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:04.360 created a culture around the bar, you know, the bar 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.680 and the party and the after party life. The app 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.359 pray Ski and brought this kind of multimedia mixed media 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.160 adventure to it. So their record collection, and of course 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.440 this is I don't really know whether they were paying. 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:17.879 I don't think they were paying for any of the 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.960 song usages. But there was a lot of really great 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:26.720 music that they were applying to these very specific visuals 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.679 from an early time. I believe seventy They started that 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.439 whole thing in about seventy two, and through from seventy 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.720 two to eighty four they were doing dreamount productions. So 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.439 the record collection was thick. It was a sturdy and 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:46.840 interestingly organized and categorized record collection. And then of course 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.000 the kids were born and we kind of got our 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.879 grubby myths on it and changed changed our worlds in 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:55.520 a good way. But I think it changed their record 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:56.840 collection in a pretty bad way. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.520 So what did you listen to everything? 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:05.720 I loved albums because the artwork was like a book. 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.960 It was similar size to like a kid's book. So 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.879 for me, as a blind kid, a big piece of 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:13.919 art in my hand felt amazing. And then there's this 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.320 thing inside it that makes music come out that's wild. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:22.520 So Jethro Tull, the Band I Love Maggie Bell. I 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:24.480 loved the Beatles, but I didn't love them the way 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.480 everybody learns about the Beatles. I had a really roundabout 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.800 way of discovering them. It was on some weird compilation 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.280 that my mom had put together on a tape about 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.760 having kids, and it was all the songs that the 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.040 Beatles had written about children, but also a bunch of 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:43.600 other people and John Prine and you know, Bruce Coburn 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.080 lived in the lived and dated a woman in the 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.600 Madver Valley for a brief time. So there was a 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.399 lot of that, which I call dad rock. There's a 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.520 lot of dad rock, Rod Stewart, Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits, 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.399 The Who. Loved Loved the Who because it felt like 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.800 it was very modern to me, and it sounded just 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:05.840 like any cool kid rock that I might hear on 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.200 the radio. Then I got really into like the Pointer 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:13.680 sisters and Patti LaBelle and Oh the Staples singers. I mean, 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.000 that's the record that changed my life. That song on 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:20.399 My Way to Heaven was the first. It was the 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:22.680 first time I heard music where I knew it wasn't 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:24.560 from where I was from and I needed to go 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:28.280 to where that music was being made because it just 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.080 cut me open wide and I was never the same again. 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:45.600 Okay, so you go to larry Town because your parents 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:46.320 went there. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.480 Yeah. Yeah, I'm a sad tale of the American the 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.760 American system gone wrong. I'm one of those legacy kids 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.600 that got in because my parents went there, you know, 0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:59.640 because I had terrible grades and I didn't get into 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.320 any of the colleges I wanted to go to. I 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.840 really wanted to go to Wheaton College. I had a 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.680 vision of Wesley and didn't even bother for any Vermont 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.119 schools because I wanted to get out of town. I 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.879 did want to get out into the world. Randice. I 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.160 tried the Vanah School of Art and Design. I applied 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.000 to like thirteen schools, and the fact that I got 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.360 into Saint Lawrence is a bit It's not too mythical, actually, 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:31.240 it's just it's just, you know, the appropriation of my parents' 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:37.040 you know, amazing illustrious careers and lives there. Not to 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.359 say that they were giving a huge amount of money, 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:41.640 but I think they had big personalities and they were 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.320 remembered and loved and appreciated up up on campus, and 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.560 they had a great love story. My uncles and aunts 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:51.000 all went there, my cousins had gone there, So it 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:55.320 felt like the natural course of the salmon going back upstream. 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:59.800 You know, Okay, let's go back at chapter. You're listening 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:03.000 to all this music. At what point do you start 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:04.320 to play and sing? 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.760 I must have been four. I mean, I've got pictures 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:11.439 of me at four, tinkering around on the piano with 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.879 this look on my face like I am, I'm gonna 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:20.640 master this thing. I don't remember when I started singing. 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.040 I was just always singing. It was always in me. 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:26.200 And it wasn't just that I was singing. I was harmonizing, 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:31.720 like right away to music that felt close to my heart. 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.080 It felt like I remembered it from being in my 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:36.919 mom's belly almost. You know, there's like a familiarity with 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:40.960 music that never made me feel shy. I was never shy. 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.679 And then, of course, going through adolescence, I remember, like 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:49.080 the notebook, the first notebook full of songs, so probably eleven, twelve, thirteen, 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.200 somewhere in there where all those big feelings go, they 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.360 go into the notebook, and a lot of those notes 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.560 were actually songs. So it must have been really early 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:01.360 on that I was writing do You Take Piano Lessons? 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:06.280 My mom, among the many, the Jacqueline of all trades 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:10.600 that she is, was also a piano teacher. And so 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:12.720 I would get off the school of bus, and so 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.439 would eleven other kids, and we'd all walk up the 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:20.000 mile long driveway to our house on the hill, past 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:24.520 the Crazy Movie Theater and Alan Lumber and the Valley rental, 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:27.920 and everybody would eat my snacks, eat me out of 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.320 house and home they would. But I would listen to 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:34.119 the kids taking lessons and my mom patiently teaching them 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:39.240 how to read music and try for these more complicated pieces. 0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:41.399 She was always encouraging people to try something a little 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:43.560 bit more complicated than what they think they can handle. 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:46.520 And then at the end of the day, I'd be like, 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.320 all right, I want to learn that song. So whatever 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:51.760 the song was that hit me the most, that felt 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:55.080 the most intriguing, But I never learned how to read music. 0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:57.879 She just would sit with me and I'd watch her 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:02.040 fingers and I'd listen, and she just had an elegance 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:04.399 to her and the way that she played that I 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:07.600 never quite could conjure. I had to sort of create 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:10.680 my own style. So by ear, I would block out 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:14.560 the chords and try and recreate them as best I could. 0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:18.400 Okay, let's jump all the way forward. Right now, you're 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:19.200 in Waitesfield. 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:22.320 I'm in Faston, which is the very school that I 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.120 went to elementary school. Yeah, there's no zip. 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:28.679 Code right face, which was Glenn Allen now sugar Burst. 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.800 North, exactly exactly. 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:34.840 But you lived into Panga for a. 0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:38.240 While, right, yes, and I still do actually, so we 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:44.080 split time. I'm by Coastal. I'm polyamorous with my hometown. 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:47.600 I really can't let go of California. I just I 0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:50.400 have this. It's what Mother Road is really about. I mean, 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:52.280 if we're really going to jump forward, that's what the 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:55.080 whole album is about, is this feeling of like, wait 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:58.399 a second, I'm really going to go home now, Like 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.720 after all this hard work, going to go home. That's 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:06.560 not it. That wasn't the plan. Not now anyways, And 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:09.919 to Panga is a place. I mean, it's where I 0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:12.240 gave birth to my son, you know, I had him 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:15.639 at home in the bathtub and really set up a 0:25:15.720 --> 0:25:18.119 life that I believed was my anchor point. It was 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:21.199 going to be the roots I planted for myself in 0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:24.320 the same way that my parents were like, sorry Connecticut, 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:27.320 Sorry New Jersey, sorry parents, sorry American dream, We're going 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:30.640 to go back to the land and build our life. 0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:32.320 I was. I was sort of in the midst of 0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:37.639 that process when COVID hit, and I think fear crept in, 0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:41.159 you know, and I've really was worried about my parents 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:44.159 and my brother. I wanted to be where the people 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:46.480 were that I loved the most, and I wanted to 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:48.439 just see them and hold them and know that, like 0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:52.159 it wasn't a robot on the computer screen pretending to 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:53.879 be my mom and dad. I had to touch them 0:25:53.920 --> 0:25:56.440 in the flesh. And you know, I'm sure we all 0:25:56.480 --> 0:25:58.520 remember that that was a complicated thing to do in 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:02.000 the midst of lock down and post lockdown, the uh 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:04.480 you know, the two weeks of sitting alone wherever you 0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:08.480 traveled and just you know, uh, the quarantining and went 0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:11.439 through all of that, and it just felt like the 0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:15.920 process of revisiting and being a part of my parents' 0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:21.720 life and my childhood. It definitely triggered something very big 0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:24.080 in me on a on a songwriting level, but also 0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:28.440 on a personal level. It was just a something akin 0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:34.640 to a slow car crash. 0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:38.080 Yeah, a slow car crash, and what were. 0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:43.679 Crashing back into reality after living my like Joni Mitchell, 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:47.679 End of the Rainbow life out in California, which is 0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:51.200 exactly where I pictured myself being for at least another 0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:54.639 ten years. I was really just getting into my groove 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:59.200 of balancing motherhood and work and the flow of life 0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:03.399 out there. Is there's an ease of my I'm not 0:27:03.440 --> 0:27:07.159 sure what it is. It's just my demeanor. I've always 0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:11.159 wanted to go somewhere where there's a city nearby and 0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:13.720 an ocean nearby, but I always wanted to be sort 0:27:13.720 --> 0:27:16.040 of causeted by the mountains and to Panga is that 0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:19.040 I mean to Panga Canyon. I cannot over express just 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:22.480 exactly how much it is like the mad River Valley 0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:25.920 where I grew up, with the exception of the ocean, 0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:30.240 which is beautiful, you know, and I think being in 0:27:30.280 --> 0:27:35.920 that world and experiencing that blissed out feeling that I got, 0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:38.000 which I think you can hear on the album Daylight, 0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:41.480 this feeling of just like this is my happily ever 0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:43.640 after this is the end of the Rainbow, we're here. 0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:47.040 I really did feel like there was like a rip 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:51.919 in my reality and a transition and a transformation in 0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:56.960 my brain that forced me to get real and be 0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:00.800 honest with myself and with my family, with the love 0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:03.480 of my life and the kid that we made together, 0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:08.760 and come to see why. There were things about coming 0:28:08.800 --> 0:28:10.760 back to Vermont that just made a whole lot of sense. 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:13.879 But once I got here, it was it was a hard, 0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:17.359 hard winter. It was a really uncomfortable thing for me 0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:19.920 to come back here, and it was pulling up all 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:23.199 these old feelings where when I was visiting it was 0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:25.720 just like, oh my god, just crazy blowing through town 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:28.879 and wow, my life is just on this rock and 0:28:28.960 --> 0:28:32.280 roller coaster and here we go again. I love you all, 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:34.880 I'll see you later. And it was always on my terms, 0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:38.200 you know, but coming back this time was a not 0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:41.160 on my terms. It was, you know, based around this 0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:44.720 circumstance of COVID. It was also based out of fear, 0:28:44.880 --> 0:28:48.200 which I never liked. I don't like doing anything out 0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:52.240 of fear. But I also felt like logic was starting 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:56.560 to take over, and I don't like logic. I'm not spuck, 0:28:56.680 --> 0:29:00.440 I'm Kirk, you know. So it was hard for me 0:29:00.800 --> 0:29:04.680 to wrap my head around the reality of being home. 0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:08.960 But it was also amazing to reconnect and remember the 0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:13.200 life that I had here before before all of the madness. 0:29:13.240 --> 0:29:16.400 You know, Okay, if COVID hadn't happened, would you have 0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:19.440 gone back to Waydesfield eventually? 0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:23.200 Yes, I don't think we would have bought the farm 0:29:23.240 --> 0:29:25.560 that we're in. I don't think that it would have 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:29.600 happened as soon. I always planned on coming back when 0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:31.960 when my parents needed me, you know, and really being 0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:34.640 there for them and being able to provide for them 0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:40.760 and have the extremities of my life being tour buses 0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:43.600 and crazy all nighters and TV in the morning and 0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:49.160 flying from Japan and you know, borrowing borrowing Bob Weir's 0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:51.840 plane to go fly from one place, you know, like 0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:53.800 all these stories that you hear that are like the 0:29:53.840 --> 0:29:57.200 crazy rock star life. I absolutely had that, and I 0:29:57.280 --> 0:29:59.640 knew that that didn't That was not a sustainable way 0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:02.680 to live. But I wanted to ease out of it. 0:30:02.800 --> 0:30:05.360 And this was not easing out of it. This was 0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:09.240 the opposite of that. And in buying a property and 0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:13.040 making that sort of staking that claim, it definitely sealed 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:16.960 my fate in a way that I think I was 0:30:17.040 --> 0:30:20.520 not at peace with and that's why I went on 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:24.000 all those road trips looking for where I really belong. 0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:26.360 Okay, before we get to the road trips. So you 0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:29.760 own property into paying and your own property. 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.160 In Wadesfield, that's right, yep. 0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:33.440 And how do you decide where you are and when 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:34.960 you are? Oh? 0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:39.640 God, such a good question, Bob. I don't know. You know, 0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:41.040 there's a lot of it that has to do with 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:45.760 school and the kiddo, but it's also about what serves 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:49.160 the moment. And I'm also a bit of a migratory 0:30:49.200 --> 0:30:52.960 beast myself. I'm really I think certain people really are 0:30:54.480 --> 0:30:58.200 in that vagabond lifestyle, which chase the weather where it goes. 0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:00.160 And so in the winter time we tend to go 0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:03.600 back to California. So we've been up until recently and 0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:05.720 this year being the exception because I'm going to be 0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:12.320 on tour. We've been doing primary pieces of winter in California, 0:31:12.760 --> 0:31:16.200 coming back in the spring and spending spring, summer and 0:31:16.280 --> 0:31:22.720 fall in Vermont. Where's your husband from Palo Alto California? 0:31:23.440 --> 0:31:25.640 So how does he like living in Vermont? 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:30.000 He loves it. It's so annoying, He's like, so, I mean, 0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:31.720 he comes out. He wakes up at six in the 0:31:31.760 --> 0:31:34.680 morning with those rosy cheeks having just been on like 0:31:34.720 --> 0:31:38.240 a snowshoe, you know, and he's got his snow pants on, 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:42.200 and he doesn't mind having staticky hairs sticking up everywhere. 0:31:42.520 --> 0:31:46.280 But like, the winter is a place. I think it's 0:31:46.320 --> 0:31:49.160 like a wonderland for him. He's like a five year old, 0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:52.160 you know, out in the snow, like catching snowflakes on 0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:56.280 his tongue. I'm not actually kidding that that happened many 0:31:56.320 --> 0:32:00.280 a time this last winter and watching him in joy 0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:04.080 Vermont has also been one of those processes of falling 0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:06.840 back in love with Vermont through the eyes of the 0:32:06.880 --> 0:32:11.800 person that I love. And he's definitely been my cheerleader 0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:15.040 and the biggest believer in in this process of moving 0:32:15.080 --> 0:32:17.160 back and forth and bouncing back and forth between the 0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:18.040 two places. 0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:22.080 Okay, so you have fires into Panga and you have 0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:23.440 floods in wade Field. 0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:26.760 I was just thinking about this. I think we can apply. 0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:29.600 I think we are we can apply for FEMA in 0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:35.520 both places, and I'm yeah, that's that's the scariest reality check. 0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:38.320 I'm not going to because luckily both of our properties 0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:41.040 have not been affected but we are actually qualified to 0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:45.080 apply for FEMA in both places. And that's that's the 0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:48.440 terrifying reality of where we are now. And I also 0:32:48.520 --> 0:32:51.360 think that the move to Vermont was based a bit 0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:54.320 on that, because we underwent a pretty traumatic fire, the 0:32:54.360 --> 0:32:57.680 Woolsey Fire a few years back, where a huge amount 0:32:57.720 --> 0:33:00.280 of our friend's houses were one day there were there, 0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:03.880 next day they were just gone. And some of some 0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:06.080 of those friends actually lived with us through some of that. 0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:11.479 So we evacuated to Panga with a group of people 0:33:11.520 --> 0:33:14.880 and all of their dogs and goats and snakes and wolves, 0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:18.120 because that's so to Panga. 0:33:19.240 --> 0:33:23.240 Okay, Vermont is different now. You grew up, and maybe 0:33:23.320 --> 0:33:26.640 during this transition you experienced it. But not only is 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:31.719 there internet everywhere, a cable television everywhere, there's fat acts everywhere. 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:34.880 On some level, you can live anywhere today. So how's 0:33:34.920 --> 0:33:36.440 it different from when you grew up? 0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:41.560 I'm noticing now that there is a culture and a 0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:47.080 brand to Vermont that probably existed all along, but that 0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:49.480 for me I wasn't aware of because I was in 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:51.840 the service industry, so I was I was on the 0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:55.880 serving side of the table, you know, as a waitress, 0:33:55.880 --> 0:33:58.720 as a house painter and a contractor and as somebody 0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:01.640 who kind of saw my life moving in that direction. 0:34:01.720 --> 0:34:04.240 If I hadn't become a musician, I could have I 0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:07.080 could have done any number of odd jobs and been 0:34:07.280 --> 0:34:12.520 a jacqueline of all trades myself. But I see it 0:34:12.560 --> 0:34:14.920 differently now because I'm in a different I'm in a 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:19.120 different financial state than I was. I am now kind 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:22.200 of one of those hoity toity people that I used 0:34:22.239 --> 0:34:24.640 to make fun of when I was a waitress, you know. 0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:29.720 And that might be the weirdest offset for me about 0:34:29.880 --> 0:34:33.120 coming back to Vermont is that there's a perception of 0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:37.400 who I am, and I am a real Vermonter, and 0:34:37.440 --> 0:34:40.319 I'm native and born and raised and you know, grew 0:34:40.400 --> 0:34:43.080 up in the mud, you know, bail and hay at 0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:46.160 a dairy farm and try in every every single corner 0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:49.560 of the world. And having traveled to every single corner 0:34:49.560 --> 0:34:52.000 of the world, I can tell you that that that 0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:56.719 idyllic life that I had is still totally happening here. 0:34:56.920 --> 0:35:01.360 I mean, there are really kids, my son age still 0:35:01.400 --> 0:35:05.920 doing exactly that. And it does feel like that foothold 0:35:05.960 --> 0:35:09.200 isn't going to go away anytime soon, because it's something 0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:13.080 that is treasured. It's a lifestyle, and it's a an 0:35:13.080 --> 0:35:19.120 ethos of hard work and humility and being aware of 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:22.600 your surroundings and being conscious of what you're bringing into 0:35:22.640 --> 0:35:26.120 the world and feeling your way through your purpose with 0:35:26.680 --> 0:35:31.560 a very practical outlook on life. And that to me 0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:35.560 is fundamentally still a real thing. But who I am 0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:40.360 in that setting is very different. And I mean something 0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:42.160 as simple as the fact that I still have my 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:46.040 LA phone number and when I call places, they won't 0:35:46.239 --> 0:35:48.759 pick up unless it's an eight to two number. So 0:35:49.000 --> 0:35:53.279 I'm like the stranger, danger rich lady with an LA 0:35:53.360 --> 0:35:57.480 phone number calling in asking about concrete molds and can 0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:01.680 I get you know, this tint for my concrete floor 0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:04.759 polish for my barn that we're refurbishing. You know, it 0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:07.000 just sounds like I want to punch me in the face. 0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:07.520 You know. 0:36:07.760 --> 0:36:11.240 That's the me that has a bit of the old 0:36:11.719 --> 0:36:13.600 you know, just hard work in salt of the earth 0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:15.680 girl that just doesn't want to hear it from some 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:18.880 pony lady. But now I am the pony lady. 0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:24.080 Okay, So how has it worked out financially? Because one 0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:29.879 might say you're rich now, I mean everything's relative today. 0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:33.399 You have billionaires, you have people who are homeless. So 0:36:33.719 --> 0:36:36.359 the music business has changed. It used to be more 0:36:36.360 --> 0:36:39.479 of a threshold either you made or you didn't make it. Yeah, 0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:40.960 so how's it working for you? 0:36:42.080 --> 0:36:45.359 It worked out because, and for me, what I think 0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:48.000 of as worked out is I don't have to I'm 0:36:48.040 --> 0:36:50.680 not going paycheck to paycheck anymore. And I was able to. 0:36:51.040 --> 0:36:53.640 I'm able to own, you know, a house. I bought 0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:57.360 a house before I was married to Eric. I was 0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:00.640 able to buy a house. And for myself, I'll fund 0:37:01.400 --> 0:37:04.200 the prospects of my dreams and the things that I wanted. 0:37:04.200 --> 0:37:07.760 I was able to sort of nurture into being, maybe 0:37:07.800 --> 0:37:11.640 not by having an endless well of money available to me, 0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:15.880 but more by the trust and the I think the 0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:21.600 constitution of who I was becoming, and the potential within 0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:25.560 my musical career and the hard work that I had shown, 0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:28.360 and the enduring kind of like I'm not going anywhere people. 0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:30.880 I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm not going anywhere. 0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:36.880 That feeling was a pretty leveling force for me financially. 0:37:36.920 --> 0:37:39.040 I also have a great business manager who's always made 0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:43.520 sure that that I'm not overdrafting, overdrawing, overdrafting. That's the 0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:46.400 way it could be both either way. I don't do 0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:48.240 that anymore. I used to do it all the time, 0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:51.440 and paycheck to paycheck has has moved into a place 0:37:51.480 --> 0:37:55.080 of much more security. But it was, you know, it 0:37:55.120 --> 0:37:58.040 was stretching it very thin to buy this farm and 0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:01.000 to make it all come together. It's one hundred and 0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:03.520 twenty acre farm, and that's a lot of land. And 0:38:03.560 --> 0:38:06.120 there's a lot of other costs that you have to 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:09.000 consider when you're buying a farm, one of which is 0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:12.200 also just the social responsibility of it. You know, do 0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:14.960 you want to be a gentleman farmer general lady farmer 0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:17.040 and have nothing happened here? Or do we want to 0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:21.640 have an ecosystem that we're reintroducing with dairy cows or 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:26.120 goats or you know, hops or weed or whatever it 0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:29.080 could be. And every single one of those endeavors comes 0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:32.319 with a cost, and so there's a reality check to it. 0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:36.360 But then there's a paycheck when I play my gigs, 0:38:36.560 --> 0:38:40.680 and so I think I've subsidized as best I could 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:45.799 the passion projects that I've had with the reality that 0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:49.480 I think music really is if I put the work 0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:51.520 in and if I pound in the pavement, and I'm 0:38:51.520 --> 0:38:54.439 out there on tour in a sustainable way with keeping 0:38:54.440 --> 0:38:56.719 my overheads as low as I can, I can do 0:38:56.760 --> 0:38:59.520 pretty well every year, you know, so. 0:38:59.440 --> 0:39:01.520 Tell me about these drives cross country. 0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:07.320 So again, everything that a Vermantra does has to be practical, 0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:11.480 and the practicality of me starting this whole endeavor was 0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:14.600 that during COVID you couldn't rent a car. I mean, 0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:17.520 I'm not sure if you experienced that, but for anybody 0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:20.120 who was trying to rent a vehicle at a certain 0:39:20.160 --> 0:39:22.520 point in the summer of I think twenty twenty one, 0:39:22.680 --> 0:39:25.840 you could like make a reservation and pay a bunch 0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:29.040 of money for that reservation, and then you'd get to 0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:30.879 the front counter and they'd just be like, yeah, yeah, 0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:32.960 I know, thanks for your money, but we're out of cars. 0:39:33.400 --> 0:39:36.560 Don't know what to tell you. So after that happened 0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:41.640 literally four times in a row, I started to kind 0:39:41.640 --> 0:39:44.840 of panic because I do feel like I need a 0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:49.680 fire escape for my life and for the feelings of 0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:53.920 being trapped and the feelings of sort of strangulation, including 0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:56.800 the financial stuff. Was starting to come into a place 0:39:56.840 --> 0:39:58.719 of like, I don't want to have to pay for 0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:01.799 a rental car. We have a perfectly good, brand new 0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:06.800 car that we bought at twenty twenty Volkswagen Atlas, sitting 0:40:06.800 --> 0:40:09.960 there in California, just waiting, just toasting in the sun. 0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:14.839 So I got on a plane and masked up and 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:19.359 you know, armed myself with some notepads and went out 0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:21.080 and picked up the car and drove it back. That 0:40:21.200 --> 0:40:22.040 was the first trip. 0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:33.040 Okay, A couple of questions, Yes, have you gotten COVID, 0:40:33.080 --> 0:40:34.839 and if so, how many times? 0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:39.400 Yes? I have two times, And the first one was 0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:42.360 like a yep, this is definitely one million, one hundred 0:40:42.360 --> 0:40:46.040 thousand percent COVID. Oh my god, that that, Oh my god, 0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:49.360 sandbag in the head COVID. And I was in Texas 0:40:49.400 --> 0:40:52.160 playing a private gig, which was a bummer because my 0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:54.320 kid was with me. I had him. I just happened 0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:57.000 to be like, let's do a mother's son adventure because 0:40:57.040 --> 0:40:59.040 I was excited to drive with him and take him 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:02.120 on a little mother road trip. Oh boy, did it 0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:05.800 go a whole ski whiffy, whole kind of ski whiffy. 0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:08.239 And then the second time, I actually didn't know that 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:10.760 I had it, except that when I patted my head, 0:41:11.560 --> 0:41:14.360 my scalp hurt in the exact same way that I 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:17.120 remembered it hurting when I had COVID the first time. 0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:19.960 That like pain to the touch, almost like you can't 0:41:20.000 --> 0:41:22.480 bear to have the weight of your hair touching your 0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:23.520 head kind of feeling. 0:41:24.560 --> 0:41:26.520 And any long term effects. 0:41:27.320 --> 0:41:29.440 I'm so lucky to say that I have not had 0:41:29.440 --> 0:41:33.680 any long term effects. I know so many people who 0:41:33.719 --> 0:41:38.160 have and it's just devastating. So for me, I think 0:41:38.280 --> 0:41:43.280 the fear was that my voice or my hearing, because 0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:45.440 a lot of people, I think the hearing was one 0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:47.759 of the big scary things that happened to two of 0:41:47.760 --> 0:41:52.320 my musician friends who just can't actually function as musicians 0:41:52.400 --> 0:41:54.760 the way that they did before because they've lost their hearing. 0:41:55.239 --> 0:41:56.200 How old is your son. 0:41:56.960 --> 0:42:00.319 He's five and a half going on six in January, 0:42:01.040 --> 0:42:03.920 and he was actually here helping me sound check. He 0:42:04.280 --> 0:42:08.200 put the microphone right here for me today. So he's 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:12.840 taking after his papa and getting into getting into sound engineering. 0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:18.560 Okay, so you fly out to California to get the car. 0:42:19.120 --> 0:42:20.680 Who's taking care of your son? 0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:25.080 That would be my husband, Eric Valentine, that fine young 0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:25.880 man himself. 0:42:26.320 --> 0:42:28.040 So he's good alone with the kid. 0:42:28.719 --> 0:42:30.920 Oh yeah, I mean that was the agreement from the 0:42:31.040 --> 0:42:33.880 beginning when we had Sagan, it was you're going to 0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:36.120 be mister mom. He declared to the world he was 0:42:36.160 --> 0:42:39.239 going to retire from record producing, which I knew wasn't true. 0:42:39.280 --> 0:42:42.319 I mean, everybody knew wasn't true, but at least I 0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:47.440 hoped it wasn't true. But he really he's lived a 0:42:47.560 --> 0:42:51.000 life of not needing to prove himself. I think because 0:42:51.000 --> 0:42:53.719 he had such success at such a young age, I 0:42:53.760 --> 0:42:55.839 think he really was ready to pump the brakes and 0:42:55.920 --> 0:42:59.360 just be at home and be the dad that was 0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:02.800 always there for his kid. And I think it really 0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:06.480 does show through and shine through in Sagan and his personality, 0:43:06.520 --> 0:43:09.960 because you know, we have a different dynamic than a 0:43:09.960 --> 0:43:14.640 lot of families and homes American or otherwise. Yet that 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:18.800 I am out there on the road continuing my work 0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:24.360 and finding ways through that battle between the sort of 0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:27.879 mom shame and missing my family, but also knowing that 0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:33.680 there is something worth chasing there that actually will It 0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:37.000 is not an impermeable membrane of inspiration. It is something 0:43:37.040 --> 0:43:39.439 that is ready to be harvested, and then I can 0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:41.640 bring that harvest back to my family and be a 0:43:41.640 --> 0:43:42.759 happier person for it. 0:43:43.360 --> 0:43:44.399 So how'd you meet Eric? 0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:48.160 We were making a record together. I was my record 0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:50.640 company back in the day when I was at Hollywood Records. 0:43:51.000 --> 0:43:53.839 Disney Music Group had been trying to get me collaborating 0:43:53.840 --> 0:43:57.600 with this producer forever. But you know, when I heard 0:43:57.640 --> 0:44:01.160 about his records and his track record of like Well 0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:04.200 smash Mouth and Third Eye Blind and and you know, 0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:06.600 Queens of the Stone Age, and I listened to those records. 0:44:06.760 --> 0:44:11.359 I loved Queens. I loved Nickel Creek's record that he did. 0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:15.800 But I was specifically aware of a type of music 0:44:15.960 --> 0:44:21.120 that I knew growing up in Vermont as malrock because 0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:23.799 it was only ever played in the malls in the 0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:26.320 movies with malls in them, because there are no malls 0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:31.719 in Vermont, so there's one. It's a very sad story. Anyways, 0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:38.240 there's probably nothing less attractive to me than being told 0:44:38.280 --> 0:44:40.680 what producer I should work with, and I hate it. 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:43.680 I really don't like it. So of course I avoided 0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:47.000 Eric and meeting with Eric for a long time, but 0:44:47.080 --> 0:44:48.960 he just kept coming up over and over again for 0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:52.759 ten years. His name would come up, and finally we 0:44:52.800 --> 0:44:56.560 met and it was like instant I didn't know it 0:44:56.600 --> 0:44:59.440 was love. I actually just was like, what took me 0:44:59.520 --> 0:45:02.880 so long? I'm gonna make music babies with this guy forever. 0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:05.680 In fact, I use that exact sentence with my bandmates 0:45:05.719 --> 0:45:08.719 after meeting with him, I said, music babies forever. This 0:45:08.760 --> 0:45:12.240 is a lifer, this guy is. He's just he ticks 0:45:12.360 --> 0:45:16.360 all the boxes of nerdiness and caring about audio in 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:18.719 a way that makes it fun for someone like me, 0:45:18.840 --> 0:45:22.920 who who kind of I defy anyone to keep me 0:45:22.960 --> 0:45:25.160 in a recording studio for any more minutes than I 0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:27.479 absolutely have to be there. It makes my skin crawl. 0:45:27.480 --> 0:45:30.960 If it's like brain surgery, I have completely changed my 0:45:31.080 --> 0:45:34.680 tune because there's this person who is this well spring 0:45:34.760 --> 0:45:37.799 of knowledge, and not just knowledge, but the way he 0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:42.320 untethers himself from his ego when explaining it and describing 0:45:42.320 --> 0:45:46.719 what he's doing. And never in a condescending way did 0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:49.560 he ever share an opinion. It was always with this 0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:52.680 thread of what can make this better? What are the 0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:56.120 opportunities we've missed? This curiosity within him that just felt 0:45:56.160 --> 0:45:59.560 like the thing that was missing in my music, you know, 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:03.040 all long, because I feel like that old soul in me, 0:46:03.280 --> 0:46:07.600 that precocious songwriter. As a young person coming up in 0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:10.640 the music industry, I always kind of had this like 0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:15.280 old hat approach of like it's got to be old school, 0:46:15.360 --> 0:46:17.000 it's got to be this, it's got to be that. 0:46:17.200 --> 0:46:19.800 I know what's best, I know what music is tasteful. 0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:22.479 I know what tasteful is. I had made all these 0:46:22.760 --> 0:46:25.920 rules and I finally get to be in a studio 0:46:25.960 --> 0:46:29.440 with somebody who made it fun to play by the 0:46:29.520 --> 0:46:33.520 rules and also even more delicious when you break them. 0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:36.640 So you met them? How long and how did it 0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:37.600 become a romance? 0:46:38.480 --> 0:46:42.239 So after the record Midnight was finished, I think a 0:46:42.239 --> 0:46:44.200 lot of people experience this when they're in like a 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:48.280 deep intense production schedule with big deadline. Is that it's 0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:50.319 like a being in a production of any kind of 0:46:50.320 --> 0:46:53.759 film production or summer camp or whatever. There's all that 0:46:54.040 --> 0:46:56.600 like days and days and days and weeks and months, 0:46:56.600 --> 0:47:00.440 and that ultimately a year making Midnight because the turnals 0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:03.520 were sort of coming unglued at the time as well. 0:47:05.480 --> 0:47:10.439 The album was finished, mixed, mastered, and I was working 0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:14.680 on the album packaging, and I just felt this emptiness 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:19.799 in my heart that was like throbbing, longing drive by 0:47:19.880 --> 0:47:22.680 the exit for the studio and just feel my whole 0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:24.600 body want to jump out of the car and go 0:47:24.719 --> 0:47:29.440 down off the exit ramp. And I didn't understand what 0:47:29.600 --> 0:47:34.000 that was for for a few months after the production 0:47:34.080 --> 0:47:36.360 of it was done, and it was when I got 0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:39.400 I got tapped to do the theme song for Grace 0:47:39.440 --> 0:47:42.920 and Frankie. You know that show of course. Yeah, so 0:47:43.360 --> 0:47:49.839 that show and its creator had a budget and an 0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:52.120 idea for what they wanted to do, and they just 0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:55.920 they had figured like, it's Grace Potter's voice. We just 0:47:55.960 --> 0:47:58.799 we know it's this song, this Steeler's Wheel song and 0:47:58.880 --> 0:48:03.319 Grace Potter, and I was like, this is perfect. Oh 0:48:03.360 --> 0:48:04.920 my god, I get to go back to the studio 0:48:05.640 --> 0:48:08.799 and lo and behold, the studio wasn't available so yet 0:48:08.840 --> 0:48:12.040 again just just like, oh, I don't have a reason 0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:15.359 to be there anymore, and I kept finding myself making 0:48:15.440 --> 0:48:17.560 up reasons to want to go back into the studio, 0:48:18.200 --> 0:48:20.680 and it was obviously to see Eric and just be 0:48:20.920 --> 0:48:27.400 around that energy. But ultimately we recorded right down the 0:48:27.440 --> 0:48:29.440 road from it, and because I was the producer, I 0:48:29.520 --> 0:48:31.360 knew where I wanted to have it mixed. If I 0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:35.120 couldn't record it at Barefoot, we recorded at Vox Studios 0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:37.880 in Larchmont and then ultimately went back to Barefoot to 0:48:38.640 --> 0:48:40.960 mix it and do a few overdubs. So I got 0:48:41.000 --> 0:48:43.160 to go back in the studio and that's where it 0:48:43.239 --> 0:48:45.880 started to click in for me, and this is yeah, 0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:52.120 this is May June twenty fifteen. Realizing like, okay. 0:48:52.200 --> 0:48:56.480 Okay, you had been married before. Two questions. One had 0:48:56.680 --> 0:49:00.960 Eric been married before? And two was there any reluctance 0:49:01.040 --> 0:49:04.799 to get into another marriage since you'd had a previous marriage? Oh? 0:49:04.920 --> 0:49:07.440 Sure, I mean there was not just reluctance. It was 0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:10.000 a it was a nasty overlap, that was a that 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:12.680 was some real deal, like what are we going to 0:49:12.760 --> 0:49:15.600 do about these feelings we're having because he'd been with 0:49:15.840 --> 0:49:18.480 he was not married to his former partner, but he'd 0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:21.800 been with her for for many years as well as 0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:24.920 me and Matt. And Matt was you know, in my 0:49:25.000 --> 0:49:28.440 band still and was not going to leave or take 0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:31.120 a back seat any any day. I mean, even with 0:49:31.120 --> 0:49:35.480 the Nocturnals uh dissolving. He was he was really supportive 0:49:35.600 --> 0:49:38.160 of my choice to to dissolve the Nocturnals and was 0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:42.040 ultimately like, whatever you're doing, I'm sticking on the tour. 0:49:43.040 --> 0:49:45.000 You know you're not going to play radio City Music 0:49:45.000 --> 0:49:49.600 Hall without me, girl. It was. It was definitely a 0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:55.200 really difficult time and a really uncomfortable set of reluctant 0:49:55.320 --> 0:50:00.480 people on all sides, and it got kind of interests. 0:50:00.480 --> 0:50:07.440 Actually it was pretty scary and violent, like I had 0:50:07.480 --> 0:50:10.440 to get a restraining order and don't get into the 0:50:10.480 --> 0:50:15.400 details of it. But I'm fine and they're fine. Everybody's fine. 0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:18.759 But we weren't fine. It could have been really bad. 0:50:18.880 --> 0:50:22.840 It could people could have died. Love love does crazy 0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:26.080 things to people, and it was by far the most 0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:30.279 dramatic experience of my life, and one in which if 0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:35.960 I if I had any minuscule doubt about who and 0:50:36.040 --> 0:50:38.319 what was going on and who I loved and what 0:50:38.480 --> 0:50:43.239 exactly love felt like, I would have run away and 0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:46.759 never looked back. But it was too late. I was 0:50:46.840 --> 0:50:49.640 so in love and there was absolutely nothing I could do. 0:50:50.320 --> 0:50:55.360 So sharing that feeling with Eric was also really confusing 0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:57.279 for him. In fact, I think he said something like, 0:50:57.480 --> 0:51:01.640 this is really confusing. You should go and escorted me 0:51:01.680 --> 0:51:05.080 out of the studio when I first told him what 0:51:05.200 --> 0:51:09.040 I was feeling. And it was because you know, these 0:51:09.160 --> 0:51:14.680 these relationships that we were in that had been long unraveling, 0:51:15.560 --> 0:51:18.920 where also the thing that defined us. They were the 0:51:18.920 --> 0:51:22.240 stories we had been telling ourselves for a very long time. 0:51:22.280 --> 0:51:26.520 And it's always extremely uncomfortable to tear yourself out of 0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:31.320 one reality and imagine a new reality until it's happening 0:51:31.320 --> 0:51:31.520 to you. 0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:34.359 Okay, let's go back to the road trip. So you're 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:36.520 going to go to Topenga to pick up your brand 0:51:36.560 --> 0:51:37.560 new Volkswagon. 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:40.640 Okay, fancy doesn't it. 0:51:40.719 --> 0:51:42.640 You're going to go to the airport. You're going to 0:51:42.719 --> 0:51:45.239 pick up the car. What was your plan after you 0:51:45.400 --> 0:51:48.480 turned the key and the ignition or push the button? 0:51:49.640 --> 0:51:54.439 I had met a guy on the Santa Monica peer 0:51:54.880 --> 0:52:00.880 who runs the kiosk that says Santa Monica Pier end 0:52:00.880 --> 0:52:04.759 of the trail Route sixty six. And actually, even though 0:52:04.760 --> 0:52:07.280 I'd seen the movie Forrest Gump, I did not actually 0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:10.279 register that that's where Forrest Gump was running when he 0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:12.959 was doing his like back and forth running road trip. 0:52:14.320 --> 0:52:18.080 But it really was that it was this like movie moment, 0:52:18.120 --> 0:52:20.920 this aha, because I wasn't sure what I was going 0:52:21.000 --> 0:52:24.279 to do, and I love There's a taco place down 0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:25.680 there that I love, so I wanted to get one 0:52:25.680 --> 0:52:27.839 more taco in California on my way out of town. 0:52:27.960 --> 0:52:29.960 Where do you go for a taco? 0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:33.560 Oh, the taco place in town. It's just a taco truck, 0:52:33.560 --> 0:52:35.080 that's right, I like parked on the side of it. I 0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:36.239 don't even know what the name of it is. It's 0:52:36.280 --> 0:52:39.080 just this guy, Hernando. His name is Hernando. He makes 0:52:39.080 --> 0:52:41.840 the best tacos ever. He puts habenaro on everything, and 0:52:41.920 --> 0:52:44.000 he puts a pink thing on every taco. But it's 0:52:44.040 --> 0:52:46.880 not Pink's tacos. It's a different place. He likes to 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:53.319 do like pickled pink everything. It's fucking perfect anyways. So 0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:57.799 I wanted one of those, and I wandered down the 0:52:57.840 --> 0:53:00.680 pier just to catch the sunset and be a romantic 0:53:00.760 --> 0:53:06.440 fool feeling all that big, confused, welling up feelings of 0:53:06.600 --> 0:53:08.839 I don't want to leave California. I don't really know 0:53:08.880 --> 0:53:15.759 why I'm driving east now, you know, back to a 0:53:15.800 --> 0:53:20.160 place that was creating some conflicting sensations in my soul. 0:53:20.680 --> 0:53:23.719 So I was there and that's where I picked up 0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:28.000 this guide. It was easy sixty six. It was a 0:53:28.120 --> 0:53:32.800 ringbinder book that was done and edited and re edited, 0:53:32.800 --> 0:53:36.120 and many many renditions of this book exist out in 0:53:36.160 --> 0:53:38.880 the world, but I think his name is Jim McLoughlin, 0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:44.719 and he's sort of a proper connoisseur of the road 0:53:44.719 --> 0:53:47.800 to flight, the mother roads. So I took that book 0:53:47.840 --> 0:53:50.719 with me, and armed with that book, I laid out 0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:55.000 a course of action, starting in Panoramic City at the 0:53:56.040 --> 0:54:01.640 super racist inappropriately titled and inappropriately branded Wigwa Hotel and Motel. 0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:05.560 I just I had to see it for myself to 0:54:05.640 --> 0:54:11.120 understand what the hell anyone was thinking. And I kind 0:54:11.120 --> 0:54:13.759 of got it. It's like being in It's like being 0:54:13.760 --> 0:54:20.440 in the Yogi Bear Jellystone Park cartoon. It's bizarre. But 0:54:20.560 --> 0:54:25.520 I stayed there the first night and then just rode 0:54:25.560 --> 0:54:28.080 the trail all the way. I highlighted all the pages 0:54:28.120 --> 0:54:30.440 of sort of the maybe I'll go here, maybe I'll 0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:33.640 go there, lots of little side roots and notes about 0:54:33.719 --> 0:54:36.160 like don't go this way. The bridge is washed out, 0:54:36.200 --> 0:54:38.120 there is no road there where there used to be 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:41.080 a road. I just so sexy to me. That is 0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:44.680 like the beckoning, yes, get me down that road with 0:54:44.719 --> 0:54:47.200 the bridge that's broken. I want that, and I did. 0:54:47.520 --> 0:54:48.359 I went and found it. 0:54:48.640 --> 0:54:51.440 Okay, So how long did it on that initial trip 0:54:51.440 --> 0:54:53.640 how long did it take you to go from California 0:54:53.680 --> 0:54:54.680 to Vermont? 0:54:54.920 --> 0:54:57.200 It was only like a week. It wasn't that crazy. 0:54:58.400 --> 0:55:01.320 I took my time out. I was obviously kind of 0:55:01.360 --> 0:55:05.520 dragging my heels to get east. So it was four 0:55:05.600 --> 0:55:10.719 days in Uh, it was to two nights in California, 0:55:11.160 --> 0:55:16.719 two nights in Arizona, one night in New Mexico, and 0:55:16.760 --> 0:55:19.920 then a straight shot to Saint Louis. So no, yeah, 0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:22.320 I'm wrong. Not two nights in California, one night in California, 0:55:22.360 --> 0:55:26.000 two nights in Arizona, one night in New Mexico. Uh, 0:55:26.040 --> 0:55:28.920 Inducum Carrie, which was one of my favorites. 0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:30.880 To Carrie. 0:55:32.320 --> 0:55:36.239 Yeah, I've driven every kind of rig that's up a 0:55:36.280 --> 0:55:40.480 bit anyways, So yeah, Will and Yeah. Those songs though 0:55:40.520 --> 0:55:42.399 as well, like Winslow Arizona, you know, I mean, take 0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:45.400 it easy, all these songs. There was a trail of 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:49.120 music that goes along with the trail you know itself. 0:55:49.200 --> 0:55:53.640 And I thought, instead of trying to write any songs, 0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:57.440 I was just gonna listen to not just music, but 0:55:57.560 --> 0:56:01.200 like nothing listen to. I did listen to some John 0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:06.160 Steinbeck audio books, Travels with Charlie and Grapes of wrath obviously, 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:11.760 but I also I really just needed some quiet too. 0:56:11.880 --> 0:56:14.560 And I love the sound of the wind. And one 0:56:14.600 --> 0:56:16.680 of the things that that Atlas does it has this 0:56:16.800 --> 0:56:21.879 lovely moon roof that opens into this sort of amazing 0:56:22.560 --> 0:56:25.160 gauge where you can control how much wind do you 0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:27.400 want to hear, how much sunlight you want to have 0:56:27.440 --> 0:56:29.760 come in, you can have the shade going with the wind. 0:56:29.840 --> 0:56:34.239 Guests just very cool. It's a cool sound. So so yeah, 0:56:34.280 --> 0:56:36.959 that road trip was just maybe a little over a week. 0:56:38.080 --> 0:56:39.120 Do you like to drive? 0:56:39.600 --> 0:56:42.600 Oh, I love to drive. I think I was a 0:56:42.600 --> 0:56:45.759 trucker in another life for sure, or a race car driver. 0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:48.600 I think probably a race car. I did have a bell. 0:56:48.760 --> 0:56:51.280 I hung a cow bell off of my rearview mirror 0:56:51.800 --> 0:56:54.759 that would ring when I would like you could tell 0:56:54.800 --> 0:56:57.200 because the car would start to vibrate in this certain 0:56:57.239 --> 0:56:59.919 way when I hit like one hundred and ten mile 0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:02.680 an hour and it would be like, okay, bitch, you 0:57:02.760 --> 0:57:05.239 better slow down now. So I had my okay, bitch 0:57:05.280 --> 0:57:08.600 cow bell go off way too many times, way too 0:57:08.640 --> 0:57:09.880 many times. 0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:13.719 So you land back in Vermont, then what's going through 0:57:13.719 --> 0:57:14.200 your mind? 0:57:15.680 --> 0:57:21.000 I wanted to write a song about the journey I 0:57:21.120 --> 0:57:25.000 wanted to tell a story more than write a song, though, 0:57:25.280 --> 0:57:30.560 and I think that's really what started. The more enticing 0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:34.360 piece of the album became what's the story, not what 0:57:34.840 --> 0:57:37.160 is this album I'm making? It felt kind of high 0:57:37.160 --> 0:57:39.160 time to make a record, but not like urgent. It 0:57:39.240 --> 0:57:41.960 was sort of like, Okay, I'll get to it. You know, 0:57:42.040 --> 0:57:44.440 there's a pandemic on and everybody's gonna have their stupid 0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:47.320 pandemic record likes. Let's wait for a few of them 0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:49.720 to come out and then I'll do my thing. And 0:57:50.120 --> 0:57:54.960 you know, I wrote, Yeah, I wasn't writing songs as 0:57:55.000 --> 0:58:00.160 much as I was writing a story about regret and 0:58:00.240 --> 0:58:04.280 redemption and trying to wrap my head around the choices 0:58:04.320 --> 0:58:07.160 I had made and whether any of it was, whether 0:58:07.200 --> 0:58:08.640 I was ever going to be able to square it 0:58:08.720 --> 0:58:11.600 all with the person I thought I would be and 0:58:11.680 --> 0:58:15.439 the person that I was seeing in the mirror every day. 0:58:15.560 --> 0:58:17.600 You know, tell me a little bit more about that. 0:58:17.720 --> 0:58:20.920 The regret and the dichotomy between those. 0:58:20.680 --> 0:58:26.480 Two, well, I think it's mostly to do with the 0:58:26.600 --> 0:58:31.160 choices that you don't know you're making, so choices like 0:58:32.760 --> 0:58:37.439 being a musician as opposed to being a filmmaker or 0:58:37.600 --> 0:58:41.520 a theater mom or a figure skater, or maybe I 0:58:41.520 --> 0:58:44.520 should have stuck to downhill skiing, you know, like really 0:58:44.560 --> 0:58:50.840 fundamental questions about place and belonging and understanding identity also, 0:58:50.920 --> 0:58:52.640 I mean, I think we all kind of got stewed 0:58:52.720 --> 0:58:58.280 up into that identity politics conversation and the doom scrolling 0:58:58.480 --> 0:59:01.960 of I was in. I was in lockdown with a 0:59:01.960 --> 0:59:08.640 couple of gen Z younger younger gen Z people who 0:59:09.120 --> 0:59:13.880 had a very specific propensity toward doom scrolling and deeply 0:59:13.920 --> 0:59:17.720 political conversations. So I was having a lot of big 0:59:17.840 --> 0:59:24.560 thoughts and big more big questions than conclusions than I've 0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:28.360 ever had before. I think a proper midlife crisis was underfoot, 0:59:28.640 --> 0:59:33.120 and I didn't really know that obviously, but like you know, 0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:36.560 a man will go out and buy a top down 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:40.160 sexy car or motorcycle, and for me, it was like, 0:59:40.280 --> 0:59:43.200 go get that mom car and open up the moon roof. 0:59:43.360 --> 0:59:48.200 That's all I need, you know. But the transformation and 0:59:48.240 --> 0:59:51.960 the storytelling that can come with transformation needed to be 0:59:52.040 --> 0:59:54.440 outside of my body because my body was also pretty 0:59:54.440 --> 0:59:56.680 shut down at that point. I had a miscarriage and 0:59:56.720 --> 1:00:01.000 it was really serious. It was it was life threatening 1:00:01.080 --> 1:00:06.480 situation where I hadn't miscarried completely, I guess, and it 1:00:06.520 --> 1:00:09.560 had continued to grow. And there was sort of a 1:00:12.040 --> 1:00:15.400 collection of internal bleeding over the course of a really 1:00:15.440 --> 1:00:17.320 long and dangerous amount of time that I didn't know 1:00:17.360 --> 1:00:18.880 why I was in so much pain, but it was 1:00:18.960 --> 1:00:23.200 just getting worse and worse. And so those hormonal things 1:00:23.240 --> 1:00:26.760 are going on, and things that I just couldn't quantify 1:00:27.480 --> 1:00:32.440 where and how my soul and my purpose and all 1:00:32.480 --> 1:00:34.440 of these things that were happening that felt like they 1:00:34.440 --> 1:00:36.760 were happening to me, sort of that victim feeling that 1:00:36.840 --> 1:00:40.560 I had never had before where that was coming from. 1:00:40.840 --> 1:00:43.440 So I needed to get out of my own story 1:00:43.640 --> 1:00:48.880 and start telling a story, any story, anything, And I 1:00:48.920 --> 1:00:52.560 took a visit back to my childhood self, like my 1:00:52.680 --> 1:00:55.120 bravest version of me at the age of nine, and 1:00:55.880 --> 1:00:58.440 decided to start there where I had run away from 1:00:58.480 --> 1:01:01.520 home and this is real life now. I ran away 1:01:01.560 --> 1:01:04.280 from home when I was nine to my neighbor's house, 1:01:05.280 --> 1:01:08.200 Caitlin Welter, and her parents answered the door, and of 1:01:08.200 --> 1:01:11.600 course I took off my glasses, you know, and said, Hi, 1:01:11.760 --> 1:01:14.080 my name is Lelana Mata Vesquez and I'm from Ecuador. 1:01:14.200 --> 1:01:17.120 I'm an orphan and the orphanage next door. They're very 1:01:17.160 --> 1:01:19.480 mean there. I hate it. Can you please let me 1:01:19.480 --> 1:01:22.520 stay with you? And can I please have a pop tart? 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:30.600 And they played along with me? And what was really 1:01:30.600 --> 1:01:34.640 interesting about it was I think I lost track of 1:01:36.200 --> 1:01:38.680 if I was lying, or if I was using my imagination, 1:01:39.000 --> 1:01:41.960 if I was creating something like a new life for myself, 1:01:42.440 --> 1:01:46.280 or if I was dooming myself to a new life 1:01:46.280 --> 1:01:49.920 with a new name and a very sad backstory. But 1:01:49.960 --> 1:01:52.680 it didn't matter. It was too late. I had already 1:01:52.960 --> 1:01:55.880 made this choice, and it kind of became the seed 1:01:55.920 --> 1:02:00.960 pod for understanding my own redemption and my own choices 1:02:01.160 --> 1:02:04.560 and how much I didn't actually choose. I was lying, 1:02:04.920 --> 1:02:06.760 but I wasn't lying. I was nine. I didn't even 1:02:06.840 --> 1:02:10.240 know what lying was. I just kind of wanted to 1:02:10.280 --> 1:02:14.960 be out of myself and into a story. And that 1:02:15.840 --> 1:02:18.560 deep dive at the age of nine led me to 1:02:18.600 --> 1:02:23.120 invent this character, Lady Vagabond, who was sort of my 1:02:24.040 --> 1:02:27.480 superhero chaperone, where I already had a plan where if 1:02:27.480 --> 1:02:29.760 anybody asked me why I was alone on the side 1:02:29.800 --> 1:02:32.240 of the road, I'd say, oh, I'm not. Lady Vagabond 1:02:32.280 --> 1:02:34.000 is making a fire right there in the woods. I'm 1:02:34.000 --> 1:02:35.800 just waiting here by the side of the road because 1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:39.280 we have a man bringing us water soon, so I'm 1:02:39.280 --> 1:02:40.640 going to pick up the water and then bring it 1:02:40.680 --> 1:02:42.800 back down to our camp. You know, I had like 1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:45.640 I never had to use the excuse, of course, but 1:02:45.680 --> 1:02:49.680 I had this vision of who I could be as 1:02:49.720 --> 1:02:52.320 a strong, independent nine year old kid out on the 1:02:52.400 --> 1:02:55.640 road in a bathing suit and Red Sockny's in March. 1:02:56.080 --> 1:03:01.960 So long story short, I revisited that story and all 1:03:02.000 --> 1:03:05.160 the characters I had sort of created and imagined myself 1:03:05.240 --> 1:03:08.400 meeting in some kind of a Nancy Drew novel version 1:03:08.440 --> 1:03:20.440 of my life. And that's where the songs started coming from. 1:03:20.680 --> 1:03:26.200 Okay, so do you work on inspiration? Do you write 1:03:26.240 --> 1:03:29.800 the lyrics before the music? Do you say, okay, I 1:03:29.840 --> 1:03:31.960 write from ten to one. How do you do it? 1:03:32.520 --> 1:03:35.600 Oh? God, I wish I had that. Nick Cave has 1:03:35.640 --> 1:03:38.480 that kind of order in his I believe he actually 1:03:38.560 --> 1:03:42.600 goes like with a briefcase to a cubicle. I'm so 1:03:42.840 --> 1:03:46.760 jealous of that work ethic. I wait and wait and 1:03:46.840 --> 1:03:50.880 procrastinate and watch a movie and make a dinner and 1:03:50.920 --> 1:03:54.240 paint a wall and then paint a house and then redecorate, 1:03:54.640 --> 1:03:57.200 and then redecorate again, and then have a baby, and 1:03:57.240 --> 1:03:59.480 then do some laundry, and then pick out clothes for 1:03:59.520 --> 1:04:02.960 the baby haven't had yet, And then I start writing 1:04:02.960 --> 1:04:05.280 the song that's been screaming at me in my ear 1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:08.240 the whole time. That's nice, Okay. 1:04:08.320 --> 1:04:12.360 So when you ultimately do sit down decide it, is 1:04:12.400 --> 1:04:16.120 it as easy process or is it like eking it out? 1:04:16.400 --> 1:04:18.720 No, it's easy. It's really easy. In fact, this was 1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:21.760 the easiest one yet because I had made a lot 1:04:21.800 --> 1:04:25.280 of room and space in my life for writing. And 1:04:25.640 --> 1:04:28.520 I can't say I've allowed myself that luxury ever before. 1:04:28.560 --> 1:04:32.600 But I mean, we did move to Vermont to build 1:04:32.600 --> 1:04:37.680 a barn and create this, you know, fortress of you know, 1:04:38.200 --> 1:04:41.920 profound creativity. But it wasn't done being built yet. So 1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:45.040 we carved out some time while Eric was doing pre 1:04:45.080 --> 1:04:48.439 production with Nickel Creek for their record that they put 1:04:48.440 --> 1:04:51.360 out this past March, and they were going to be 1:04:51.360 --> 1:04:53.160 doing pre production, so I figured I'll do some pre 1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:55.280 production too. I'll go down to Nashville, check in with 1:04:55.320 --> 1:04:58.800 my songwriter buddies and and and just sit in a room. 1:04:58.880 --> 1:05:01.960 I'll rent a place with a so my only sort 1:05:02.000 --> 1:05:06.640 of caveat in my searching for a house was that 1:05:06.680 --> 1:05:08.160 it had to have a piano, and it doesn't matter 1:05:08.200 --> 1:05:10.360 if it was tuned. I could get somebody to fix 1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:12.440 it up and make it sound good, or tune it myself. 1:05:12.880 --> 1:05:17.240 So I sat down and it just fucking fell out, 1:05:17.600 --> 1:05:20.600 all of it, and it was fast, like ten days 1:05:21.080 --> 1:05:24.600 of writing. Some of it was collaborative. I had some 1:05:24.720 --> 1:05:31.360 really really wonderful and luscious reconnections with people who I'd 1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:34.840 written with, like Hillary Lindsay, who'd had co writing sessions 1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:40.160 with a decade or more before, which had never amounted 1:05:40.200 --> 1:05:43.640 to any recordings, and so it was amazing to tap 1:05:43.720 --> 1:05:48.280 back into her her valve and the way she opens 1:05:48.320 --> 1:05:51.280 her valve up. But she also had this brilliant idea 1:05:51.280 --> 1:05:55.160 to bring in a young young woman, Meg McCree, and 1:05:55.680 --> 1:05:58.280 that was really interesting because it sort of spanned you know, 1:05:58.320 --> 1:06:00.560 Meg is in her twenties, I'm in my thirties. Hillary 1:06:00.680 --> 1:06:03.320 is at her forties, and it felt like it was 1:06:04.360 --> 1:06:08.120 some kind of a time and dimension hopping space to 1:06:08.160 --> 1:06:11.040 be in. So two of the songs that we wrote 1:06:11.040 --> 1:06:14.040 together are on Mother Road, Rose Colored Rear View, and 1:06:14.160 --> 1:06:18.680 All My Ghosts. But also the mut I didn't need 1:06:18.720 --> 1:06:20.760 to co write. I just kind of wanted to. I 1:06:20.800 --> 1:06:23.720 wanted to. I had a lot there, like there was 1:06:23.760 --> 1:06:28.520 a propensity to overshare and talk and ask questions and 1:06:28.640 --> 1:06:33.040 listen and hear their ideas and then cross hatch things together. 1:06:33.120 --> 1:06:36.800 But I had already kind of formed the vision of 1:06:37.480 --> 1:06:42.840 the Memory Castle and Lola, you know, this little girl 1:06:42.880 --> 1:06:46.520 from the dust Bowl that I claimed to be and 1:06:46.720 --> 1:06:51.240 what her life pans out to be. And that album 1:06:51.320 --> 1:06:55.560 was already cooking in the furnace of my soul. So 1:06:55.760 --> 1:06:57.960 anybody that was writing with me kind of either had 1:06:57.960 --> 1:07:00.720 to jump on that bandwagon or just those songs that 1:07:00.760 --> 1:07:02.200 we wrote we're going to have to be put to 1:07:02.240 --> 1:07:05.760 the side for now. So yeah, I think I had 1:07:05.760 --> 1:07:08.960 twenty songs in ten days. It was so fast and 1:07:09.040 --> 1:07:12.240 so furious. And then we had eight days in the 1:07:12.280 --> 1:07:14.400 studio at Dave Cobb's place studio. A. 1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:17.960 Okay, well, let's hold for the second. Yeah, you only 1:07:18.000 --> 1:07:20.600 made one road trip or you made multiple road trips. 1:07:20.600 --> 1:07:23.360 I made four roadwall tell me about the other three. 1:07:23.800 --> 1:07:29.120 Yeah, So the retrieval of the car was one. The 1:07:29.200 --> 1:07:33.400 adventures that I took beyond that were usually again, it 1:07:33.520 --> 1:07:36.840 felt like I needed a purpose, someone to visit, somebody 1:07:36.840 --> 1:07:39.920 who's sick. Oh, my friend's having a baby. My friend 1:07:39.960 --> 1:07:42.480 lost her baby. You know. I had just had this miscarriage. 1:07:42.520 --> 1:07:45.800 So I was doing a lot of outreach to the 1:07:45.840 --> 1:07:47.560 women in my life that I cared about, but also 1:07:47.640 --> 1:07:50.120 to people who I just felt like I had had 1:07:50.120 --> 1:07:52.959 not had a chance to connect with in a long time. 1:07:53.040 --> 1:07:57.280 So there was two more solo trips across the country, 1:07:58.600 --> 1:08:03.240 one all the way back with myself and our trailer 1:08:03.920 --> 1:08:07.280 which was empty and was there to be packed up 1:08:07.280 --> 1:08:10.440 and loaded and moved. So we were gonna move essentially 1:08:10.640 --> 1:08:14.680 all of Eric's studio gear to Vermont, as well as 1:08:15.240 --> 1:08:17.760 a few of our sort of key pieces of furniture 1:08:18.520 --> 1:08:22.640 and all of Sagan's like his baby. 1:08:22.960 --> 1:08:25.760 You drove across country with a trailer. 1:08:25.920 --> 1:08:30.559 Yes, sir, I am a trucker at heart. Okay, I'm 1:08:30.560 --> 1:08:33.800 not scared of shit, man, I am really like I 1:08:33.960 --> 1:08:38.240 love I love the road, I love grease and the wheels, 1:08:38.240 --> 1:08:40.840 and I love checking on the I mean the tire 1:08:40.880 --> 1:08:44.280 pressure turned into a thing, which was interesting because it's 1:08:44.280 --> 1:08:47.800 different than a tour bus or even a transport van 1:08:47.960 --> 1:08:51.960 for example, which as any road warrior knows, you know, 1:08:52.000 --> 1:08:54.599 you start in the van and then and every band 1:08:54.640 --> 1:08:56.760 names their van Vana White. It's like we thought of 1:08:56.800 --> 1:08:59.280 this crazy name that nobody else would ever think of. 1:09:00.080 --> 1:09:02.840 Everybody thinks of it. Everybody's van was called Van of White. 1:09:03.600 --> 1:09:05.920 I had a Van of White myself. But then you go, 1:09:06.200 --> 1:09:08.519 you know, up, and you get maybe a sprinter van, 1:09:08.760 --> 1:09:10.840 and then you get the Tour of Us. And so 1:09:11.120 --> 1:09:14.360 through all that process, I've always been watching and paying 1:09:14.360 --> 1:09:17.519 attention to the engine and the tires and the traction 1:09:17.840 --> 1:09:21.479 and the brakes and what exactly goes into making a 1:09:21.680 --> 1:09:27.720 vehicle operate at its optimum efficiency. And yeah, so I've 1:09:27.760 --> 1:09:31.479 always been obsessed with that shit. And I'm not exactly 1:09:31.520 --> 1:09:34.439 mechanically minded, but I'm also not afraid to like just 1:09:34.720 --> 1:09:36.240 try and learn, just get into it. 1:09:36.760 --> 1:09:40.040 So, Okay, it's one thing that furniture. It's another thing 1:09:40.160 --> 1:09:44.519 to have recording equipment. The stories or legion of people's 1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:48.400 trailers being broken into. So when you were driving back 1:09:48.479 --> 1:09:52.080 with your trailer full, yeah, how much did you think 1:09:52.120 --> 1:09:54.320 about that? And was there any way to prevent theft? 1:09:55.280 --> 1:09:58.120 Yes, sir, we were camping on top of the damn trailer. 1:09:58.520 --> 1:10:02.559 The trailer is actually called it's called No Boundaries, which 1:10:02.600 --> 1:10:07.240 is perfect name for my trailer. And it's a like 1:10:07.479 --> 1:10:14.679 half toy hauler, half like hipster climbing mountain person tent vehicle. 1:10:15.880 --> 1:10:18.240 It's it's not so much like an RV as it 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:21.000 is a little bit of everything. It has a fridge 1:10:21.040 --> 1:10:23.559 and a kitchen and a pop out sort of bat 1:10:23.560 --> 1:10:27.479 wing wrap around porch type situation, and a ladder that 1:10:27.479 --> 1:10:29.639 takes you up to the roof so you can camp. 1:10:29.960 --> 1:10:32.000 And then there's this tent that pops up on the 1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:35.120 roof so we could just sleep on our stuff, you know. 1:10:35.400 --> 1:10:38.080 Okay, just so I know you're talking we, But I 1:10:38.160 --> 1:10:40.160 thought these trips were solow. That. 1:10:40.280 --> 1:10:43.040 Yeah, So one the trip out there with the trailer, 1:10:43.080 --> 1:10:45.840 I was solow, and then the trip back was the 1:10:45.880 --> 1:10:48.800 wei with the family. But I also say we for 1:10:48.880 --> 1:10:53.639 another reason, which is that I'm not gonna sound very 1:10:53.720 --> 1:10:58.519 sane when I tell you that Lady Vagabond was there. 1:10:59.479 --> 1:11:03.679 She was she and the little version of me, and 1:11:04.680 --> 1:11:09.680 like the Alanis Morris Morriset music video, like the you know, 1:11:09.800 --> 1:11:12.640 you know, the Alantis Morriset ironic where she's in the 1:11:12.680 --> 1:11:16.479 car with herself, that was really going on and not 1:11:16.600 --> 1:11:19.680 on a visual level. I wasn't like seeing myself, but 1:11:19.800 --> 1:11:25.360 I was talking to my imaginary friends and probably going 1:11:26.080 --> 1:11:29.559 a little mad. But I was lonely, and I was 1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:36.840 working through things that I think no therapist could have contextualized, 1:11:36.880 --> 1:11:41.840 as well as my my other people, my higher self, 1:11:41.920 --> 1:11:44.600 my lower self, my evil self, my good self, my 1:11:44.680 --> 1:11:48.920 little self, you know, my elder sage self. And so 1:11:49.160 --> 1:11:52.280 it gave me the privacy to have some pretty potent 1:11:52.439 --> 1:11:55.280 conversations with the Royal. 1:11:55.040 --> 1:11:57.719 We Man and have you been in therapy? 1:11:58.760 --> 1:12:01.840 Yes? I have. You know, it's interesting. It started out 1:12:01.920 --> 1:12:04.799 during COVID after the miscarriage, because there was a poster 1:12:04.920 --> 1:12:08.160 on the wall of the doctor's office I was in, 1:12:08.439 --> 1:12:10.960 and it was that thing of like what are you feel? 1:12:11.000 --> 1:12:12.600 You know, are you feeling any of these things? And 1:12:12.600 --> 1:12:16.120 there was a list of things and every single one 1:12:16.120 --> 1:12:19.200 of those things had gone through my head, every single one, 1:12:19.640 --> 1:12:22.599 and they said free help, you know, come and quire 1:12:22.640 --> 1:12:25.120 at the desk. And I just tore that poster off 1:12:25.120 --> 1:12:27.200 the wall and I brought it up to the checkout 1:12:27.200 --> 1:12:30.160 desk and was like, who, how, what do I do? 1:12:30.320 --> 1:12:33.040 What do I call? And which is also a really 1:12:33.080 --> 1:12:36.160 difficult thing being Grace Potter in the state of Vermont. 1:12:36.160 --> 1:12:38.479 That was also kind of uncomfortable, and it put me 1:12:38.520 --> 1:12:43.519 in a vulnerable place of asking for help kind of 1:12:43.800 --> 1:12:47.120 not publicly, because doctor's offices are a wonderfully private place, 1:12:47.160 --> 1:12:51.240 but something really terrifying had happened to me, and I 1:12:52.360 --> 1:12:56.559 just was a person. I was just a broken body 1:12:56.960 --> 1:13:00.000 needing help, and my mind was trying to catch up 1:13:00.120 --> 1:13:03.120 with the things that my body had already decided for me. 1:13:03.280 --> 1:13:08.400 So that's really what brought me into the entire process 1:13:08.439 --> 1:13:11.960 of making this record. And you know, my therapist is 1:13:12.000 --> 1:13:13.920 still I talk to her once every two weeks to 1:13:13.920 --> 1:13:14.320 this day. 1:13:14.680 --> 1:13:15.799 And what about medication. 1:13:17.040 --> 1:13:20.960 No medication for me. I can't do that, Unfortunately I have. 1:13:22.920 --> 1:13:26.200 I mean, my brother being somebody who's been through that 1:13:26.320 --> 1:13:30.440 mental health struggle and has been guinea pigged through medications, 1:13:30.479 --> 1:13:35.680 I've seen what I believe are pretty terrifying side effects 1:13:35.720 --> 1:13:39.960 to changing the chemistry within us to a degree that 1:13:40.840 --> 1:13:45.880 felt like if I could go back in time and 1:13:46.320 --> 1:13:49.880 stop some of those tests and some of those trials 1:13:50.520 --> 1:13:52.680 that my brothers so helpfully helped the rest of the 1:13:52.680 --> 1:13:57.440 world figure out were not the thing. I think physiologically, 1:13:57.479 --> 1:14:00.479 he'd be a much different person. But also just mentally, 1:14:00.840 --> 1:14:04.080 I think it did some real damage. So I've always 1:14:04.120 --> 1:14:07.800 been extremely sensitive about pills and powders on the road. 1:14:08.000 --> 1:14:11.720 And you know, medications are wonderful. Some people really do 1:14:11.840 --> 1:14:14.760 benefit from them. But I think the journey for me, 1:14:15.720 --> 1:14:18.040 with the exception of some psychedelics every once in a while, 1:14:20.120 --> 1:14:25.640 was about trying to be okay, not being okay. You know, 1:14:25.800 --> 1:14:27.960 I've heard so many people say that now it's kind 1:14:27.960 --> 1:14:33.960 of mundane, but there was so much to be worried 1:14:33.960 --> 1:14:38.439 about and be afraid of that I think if I 1:14:38.479 --> 1:14:41.599 had medicated it away, it wouldn't have made the problem 1:14:41.600 --> 1:14:45.400 go way. It would have prolonged the fear. And I'm 1:14:45.400 --> 1:14:46.720 not afraid anymore, you know. 1:14:46.880 --> 1:14:49.360 Okay, let's go. So you decide to make the album. 1:14:49.400 --> 1:14:52.120 You made a number of albums with a group, there's 1:14:52.120 --> 1:14:55.840 a group dynamic. Now you're making the album and you're 1:14:55.920 --> 1:14:58.639 the act. You have to find the musicians and you're 1:14:58.720 --> 1:15:00.360 the boss. 1:15:00.000 --> 1:15:03.920 It is different, oh man, It's it's day and night. 1:15:04.080 --> 1:15:08.320 It's a really different process. And it started with daylight 1:15:09.520 --> 1:15:11.519 and also I mean a little bit in midnight. Although 1:15:11.520 --> 1:15:15.639 the Nocturnals were still in that process, they really hated 1:15:15.640 --> 1:15:18.960 it and like I said about how making albums was 1:15:19.000 --> 1:15:22.040 like brain surgery for me, getting into the studio in 1:15:22.040 --> 1:15:24.639 general just always felt like pulling teeth with the band 1:15:25.800 --> 1:15:29.200 because I think we all had a sense of what 1:15:29.320 --> 1:15:31.960 a producer should be doing with us. I think we all, 1:15:32.040 --> 1:15:35.919 in our own rights, were producers of our own lives, 1:15:36.000 --> 1:15:39.479 and there's sort of I'm leading the way, I'm leading 1:15:39.479 --> 1:15:43.840 the charge that that feeling never went away, and especially 1:15:43.920 --> 1:15:48.160 was magnified and made even more keenly uncomfortable in the 1:15:48.200 --> 1:15:52.080 studio because there was somebody at the end of the 1:15:52.160 --> 1:15:54.479 day who was dropping their foot down and saying, this 1:15:54.520 --> 1:15:58.120 is how it's going to be, which was a lot 1:15:58.120 --> 1:16:01.080 of fun with some producers like Mark who just was 1:16:01.120 --> 1:16:04.080 just delightful, delicious process of making a record with him 1:16:04.080 --> 1:16:10.080 and the Nocturnals, because he was such an unabridged, selfless 1:16:10.400 --> 1:16:15.639 musician who was really truly not there to dominate anyone 1:16:16.439 --> 1:16:18.120 in the same way that I found Eric to be. 1:16:18.720 --> 1:16:24.120 But in making these records, uh Daylight and now Mother 1:16:24.240 --> 1:16:28.719 Road and having the bandwidth to understand that I really 1:16:28.760 --> 1:16:31.240 I am somebody who could just kind of call anybody 1:16:31.240 --> 1:16:34.200 and ask them to play with me. And there's maybe 1:16:34.240 --> 1:16:36.800 a fifty to fifty chance they'll say yes or that 1:16:36.840 --> 1:16:39.479 they won't be available, but that I can do that. 1:16:39.600 --> 1:16:43.479 I can a people know who I am enough to 1:16:44.040 --> 1:16:46.000 take my call, but be that I could like pay 1:16:46.080 --> 1:16:52.720 somebody to play with me. And it touches on the 1:16:52.760 --> 1:16:55.800 way I write songs, because I always wrote songs for 1:16:55.840 --> 1:16:59.439 the Nocturnals with them in mind. You know, I write 1:16:59.560 --> 1:17:03.000 for the player, just like some people writing a script 1:17:03.040 --> 1:17:05.320 for a film will write for a particular actor that 1:17:05.360 --> 1:17:10.200 they have in mind for that part. And that changed, 1:17:10.240 --> 1:17:13.200 and it broke down in the writing of Daylight, and 1:17:13.240 --> 1:17:17.559 broke down further in the production and writing of Mother Road. 1:17:18.760 --> 1:17:20.840 And it was so fun because I really did just 1:17:20.880 --> 1:17:23.840 get to sort of throw the names of all the 1:17:23.840 --> 1:17:26.080 people I've ever wanted to work with out on the floor, 1:17:26.200 --> 1:17:28.679 just spread them out and go like, okay, what goes together? 1:17:29.280 --> 1:17:33.160 And my first instinct was to tap people who I 1:17:33.240 --> 1:17:36.479 knew probably wouldn't be able to tour with, but that I've 1:17:36.479 --> 1:17:40.360 been wanting to play with forever so and people who 1:17:40.400 --> 1:17:44.719 I missed, so Matt Musty, my drummer from the Midnight Tour, 1:17:45.080 --> 1:17:49.679 also the godfather to my child. I wanted Tim Doe, 1:17:49.760 --> 1:17:54.479 the bass player from the Midnight Tour, and he had 1:17:54.520 --> 1:17:57.200 gone on to play with the Kings of Leon and 1:17:57.320 --> 1:18:00.880 is still touring with them to this day. Matt Musty 1:18:00.960 --> 1:18:02.720 took a gig with Train, so he's been out with 1:18:02.760 --> 1:18:06.759 them consistently. And then Nick Bockrath with Cage the Elephant, 1:18:06.840 --> 1:18:10.280 who I had never played with, but he was opening 1:18:11.040 --> 1:18:14.200 with Raylan Baxter who's playing with Rayland just on some 1:18:14.280 --> 1:18:17.280 time when Cage the Elephant was off and just playing 1:18:17.320 --> 1:18:18.920 in the band, and I just liked him as a 1:18:18.960 --> 1:18:23.040 fucking human being. I was like, that's the vibe, that's 1:18:23.080 --> 1:18:26.479 the guy I want. Just I don't even know. I 1:18:26.560 --> 1:18:29.120 know I love Cage the Elephant. I know that the 1:18:29.160 --> 1:18:31.880 guitar is a prominent presence and that there is a 1:18:31.920 --> 1:18:36.880 real craft and some really wonderful voodoo going on in there. 1:18:37.640 --> 1:18:41.000 Wasn't sure if it was gonna be a definitive yes 1:18:41.080 --> 1:18:45.120 or no, but felt like, let's do this, and that's 1:18:45.160 --> 1:18:48.080 really it was. It was that simple. But Ben Mont 1:18:48.200 --> 1:18:51.479 obviously Ben mont Tench had played on Daylight and is 1:18:51.520 --> 1:18:55.120 obviously someone who has always brought me a huge amount 1:18:55.160 --> 1:18:58.599 of joy his organ playing is he's the only organ 1:18:58.640 --> 1:19:00.800 player other than me that I'll let play my records. 1:19:01.640 --> 1:19:05.960 Okay, you talked about writing with the the Nocturnals in mind. 1:19:06.040 --> 1:19:09.160 Just one stop. Are you a night person since it's 1:19:09.200 --> 1:19:11.520 Grace Potter and the Noctournals. 1:19:12.200 --> 1:19:15.760 Yeah, And to this day it's a problem because my 1:19:16.040 --> 1:19:20.360 annoyingly fresh and wonderfully youthful husband is a super duper 1:19:20.400 --> 1:19:24.360 morning person with his getting out and going snowshoeing in 1:19:24.400 --> 1:19:28.040 the morning at six. I watched the sunrise today and 1:19:28.080 --> 1:19:30.320 I saw an eagle fly over the field. I'm like, 1:19:30.439 --> 1:19:35.040 shut up, I'm just like sawing off the sawing off 1:19:35.080 --> 1:19:40.920 another tree in my dark vampire room. I am very 1:19:41.000 --> 1:19:43.240 much a night person. I don't know how much of 1:19:43.240 --> 1:19:45.360 that is nature and how much of that is nurture, 1:19:46.439 --> 1:19:47.799 but yes, it's. 1:19:47.760 --> 1:19:49.960 Sot in a perfect world. What time would you go 1:19:50.040 --> 1:19:51.360 to bed? What time would you wake up? 1:19:52.240 --> 1:19:55.000 Bedtime is three am? Wake up time as nine am. 1:19:56.000 --> 1:20:00.040 Okay, you talked about making the records previously with the 1:20:00.120 --> 1:20:03.400 Nocturnals in mind and not having to do that as 1:20:03.439 --> 1:20:07.439 a solo artist. To what degree when you make these records, 1:20:07.439 --> 1:20:09.360 do you have the audience in mind? 1:20:10.880 --> 1:20:15.759 In this case, not a bit, because I wasn't sure 1:20:15.840 --> 1:20:19.040 if this was a record, yet same with Daylight, those 1:20:19.080 --> 1:20:24.280 two records were private. It wasn't that my Mother Road 1:20:24.320 --> 1:20:26.320 was therapeutic. I knew I was going to make a 1:20:26.360 --> 1:20:28.160 record called Mother Road, but I didn't know if these 1:20:28.160 --> 1:20:31.000 were the songs, because, like I said, I was creating 1:20:31.000 --> 1:20:34.680 a story that was out of body and yet very 1:20:34.760 --> 1:20:39.200 much intrinsic to what my process is with Daylight. I 1:20:39.280 --> 1:20:41.559 just I didn't know that Eric was sort of recording 1:20:41.560 --> 1:20:43.720 half the time, like I was just going through it, 1:20:43.800 --> 1:20:47.960 and I was going through the emotions and the waves 1:20:48.000 --> 1:20:52.000 of feelings, you know, making a baby, having a baby, 1:20:52.040 --> 1:20:54.160 buying a house, building a life, falling in love. All 1:20:54.200 --> 1:20:57.120 those things were happening. But it was hard and it 1:20:57.200 --> 1:20:59.280 was a danger Like I said, it was some dangerous 1:20:59.280 --> 1:21:02.559 times involved, stressful times involved. Last thing I wanted was 1:21:02.560 --> 1:21:04.760 for the world to hear that record. To this day, 1:21:04.800 --> 1:21:06.519 I'm kind of like, I can't fucking believe I put 1:21:06.560 --> 1:21:09.879 that record out. It's just very it's like showing everybody 1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:15.400 you're dirty undies. But but Mother Road I really did. 1:21:15.560 --> 1:21:18.120 It wasn't that I had the audience out of my mind. 1:21:18.160 --> 1:21:21.320 It was that I was in a cultivating time in 1:21:21.360 --> 1:21:24.760 the studio where I was experimenting, I was like, maybe 1:21:24.800 --> 1:21:26.800 I do country. Maybe Oh my god, what if I 1:21:26.880 --> 1:21:30.040 chicken fry the whole record? Or you know what if 1:21:30.040 --> 1:21:32.840 this is a this is an original motion picture soundtrack 1:21:33.400 --> 1:21:35.360 and so then oh but shit, then I would have 1:21:35.400 --> 1:21:37.439 to make a movie. Oh fuck, Okay, Well what if 1:21:37.479 --> 1:21:40.880 I just do both? And that's really what set me 1:21:41.000 --> 1:21:45.439 in mind. I was thinking about my audience for the film, 1:21:46.120 --> 1:21:49.800 and the film is the album, but the album it's 1:21:49.880 --> 1:21:52.680 I call it the original motion picture soundtrack to an 1:21:52.680 --> 1:21:53.519 invisible movie. 1:21:53.960 --> 1:21:57.320 You talk about, yeah, talk about the miscarriage and being 1:21:57.360 --> 1:22:03.360 depressed generally speaking? Are you an optimist? Pessimists? Half full? 1:22:03.439 --> 1:22:04.320 Glass empty? 1:22:05.080 --> 1:22:07.559 I had always been a glass half full person, like 1:22:07.600 --> 1:22:12.520 to a sickening degree where I think my therapist introduced 1:22:12.560 --> 1:22:17.920 me to an amazing term toxic positivity. I just thought 1:22:18.000 --> 1:22:25.600 that was delicious, and I yeah, up until the miscarriage 1:22:26.200 --> 1:22:30.040 and just the midlife journey of being someone who's been 1:22:30.080 --> 1:22:32.760 out on the road. And I know what jaded sounds like, 1:22:32.800 --> 1:22:35.320 and I really hate that, I really do. So I 1:22:35.400 --> 1:22:39.639 really needed this record to both be glass half full 1:22:39.720 --> 1:22:43.479 but also acknowledge the empty cup I was walking around with, 1:22:43.840 --> 1:22:50.120 and that feeling is I think intrinsically part of what 1:22:50.400 --> 1:22:55.479 drove me to make this sounds at RCA instead of 1:22:55.520 --> 1:22:58.439 in my home, which felt way too close. It's like 1:22:58.439 --> 1:23:01.200 I got to be a character, imagine myself as Dolly 1:23:01.240 --> 1:23:04.240 Parton or Waylon Jennings. In fact, the ghost of Waylen 1:23:04.280 --> 1:23:07.080 Jennings is one hundred percent all. He was all up 1:23:07.120 --> 1:23:10.840 on my business at the studio. He was he was 1:23:11.120 --> 1:23:13.800 whisper and lyrics in my ear. I feel like, you 1:23:13.840 --> 1:23:16.320 know that, in the same kind kind of cosmic way 1:23:16.320 --> 1:23:18.920 that I feel my way through the audience and the 1:23:18.960 --> 1:23:23.320 stage experience. This was the first time in the studio 1:23:23.360 --> 1:23:28.439 where I really felt like I was conjuring some some 1:23:29.160 --> 1:23:33.920 energy and some narratives that were actually beyond myself in 1:23:33.960 --> 1:23:37.679 an incredibly comforting way. It wasn't spooky, it wasn't scary. 1:23:37.760 --> 1:23:45.200 It was just surreal and really it was transformative for 1:23:45.320 --> 1:23:49.240 me in the studio and yeah, okay, kind of crass. 1:23:49.280 --> 1:23:52.639 The landscape is very different. I'm talking about the business 1:23:53.120 --> 1:23:56.599 career landscape that it was in the last century, which 1:23:56.640 --> 1:23:59.200 is not when you've had most of any of your career, 1:23:59.760 --> 1:24:02.600 and in the twenty first century, there's been an evolution 1:24:03.360 --> 1:24:05.759 such that like in the last ten or twelve years, 1:24:07.160 --> 1:24:11.160 the old paradigm of your world, dominant, etc. Is not 1:24:11.320 --> 1:24:14.479 the case. So you finish a record, you're very in 1:24:14.520 --> 1:24:18.559 this intense experience in the studio. Now it comes time 1:24:18.640 --> 1:24:21.439 people can't see my air quotes to sell the record. 1:24:22.479 --> 1:24:25.559 Now to what degree? I'm sure when you make something 1:24:25.600 --> 1:24:27.920 you want everybody to hear it, which is a near 1:24:28.000 --> 1:24:31.320 impossibility in today's world, irrelevant of what the record is. 1:24:31.960 --> 1:24:34.960 So the question become let me put it a different way. 1:24:35.880 --> 1:24:38.840 There are all these articles about the Taylor Swift tour, 1:24:39.439 --> 1:24:41.760 and she and Morganwall one of the biggest acts in 1:24:41.760 --> 1:24:45.120 the United States today. If we went and talked to 1:24:45.160 --> 1:24:48.160 people and said name to Taylor Swift records, we went 1:24:48.200 --> 1:24:50.840 through Waitsfield, many people would not even be able to 1:24:50.880 --> 1:24:54.120 do it, never mind seeing them. And that's Taylor Swift. 1:24:54.920 --> 1:24:58.960 So you have less ubiquity than she has. To what 1:24:59.040 --> 1:25:02.360 degree is this challenging? To what degree does this affect 1:25:02.360 --> 1:25:03.040 your outlook? 1:25:04.280 --> 1:25:08.240 Okay, this is just such a good question. And it's 1:25:08.360 --> 1:25:12.400 the thing about me that fundamentally has never changed. I 1:25:12.439 --> 1:25:16.920 always think I'm kicking ass, and it's a really specific 1:25:17.000 --> 1:25:21.439 feeling of It's not that no one else can. It's 1:25:21.600 --> 1:25:27.719 an inclusive, ass kicking sensation that I think is probably 1:25:27.960 --> 1:25:30.439 based on the dopamine that is created when you're out 1:25:30.479 --> 1:25:32.840 on stage and you get this sort of adrenaline and 1:25:32.880 --> 1:25:37.519 this flow that is beyond me. I really believe Tina 1:25:37.600 --> 1:25:40.439 Turner had it, and I believe that I have it. 1:25:40.600 --> 1:25:42.920 Whatever that is, it's a bug. It's something that gets 1:25:42.920 --> 1:25:44.920 in you as a cosmic bug that just like crawls 1:25:44.960 --> 1:25:49.160 up your ass and never goes away. That it's not 1:25:49.240 --> 1:25:52.760 wagging the dog. It's not confidence coming from within necessarily, 1:25:52.840 --> 1:25:57.320 it's confidence coming through and that I just don't give 1:25:57.320 --> 1:25:59.560 a damn how many people are in the audience or 1:25:59.560 --> 1:26:02.200 how many reds I sell, and I don't care if 1:26:02.200 --> 1:26:05.439 I'm not killing it. I don't like seeing a sad, 1:26:05.720 --> 1:26:10.240 empty room. But if the three people in there are elated, 1:26:10.680 --> 1:26:15.599 that is the same key. That's the golden ticket. That's it. 1:26:15.840 --> 1:26:19.280 That's all I've ever wanted. And I think on a 1:26:19.280 --> 1:26:24.400 realistic level, obviously, there are things to cultivate within that 1:26:24.479 --> 1:26:27.920 thought process. For example, it's good to know that your 1:26:27.920 --> 1:26:30.240 ticket sales are either growing or declining, that your record 1:26:30.320 --> 1:26:32.760 sales are doing well, or that your streams or this 1:26:32.880 --> 1:26:37.599 or that I just take that hat and I hand 1:26:37.640 --> 1:26:40.799 it to somebody else who's really good at that. Because 1:26:41.240 --> 1:26:45.120 the second that I start thinking about it is where 1:26:45.160 --> 1:26:48.719 I lose my honesty. It's where I lose my connection 1:26:48.880 --> 1:26:52.400 to the purpose that exists inside me, which is specifically 1:26:53.160 --> 1:26:56.240 to make the music as pure as possible. I can't 1:26:56.280 --> 1:26:58.840 be thinking, I can't be watching the hearts and the 1:26:59.040 --> 1:27:01.120 likes coming up through the screen. You know. One of 1:27:01.200 --> 1:27:03.639 my least favorite things to do is those like live 1:27:04.040 --> 1:27:05.559 things where there's a Q and A and I have 1:27:05.600 --> 1:27:09.680 to like watch people's comments go by, because they're just 1:27:09.760 --> 1:27:14.160 feelings and thoughts. They're just exactly like balloons floating through 1:27:14.240 --> 1:27:17.040 the air. Or when if you meditate, it's you know, 1:27:17.200 --> 1:27:20.679 your thoughts are, you know, unhelpful little leaves on the river, 1:27:20.760 --> 1:27:22.679 but if you just sit by the river long enough. 1:27:23.000 --> 1:27:26.280 So my creative process is to tap into the river 1:27:26.360 --> 1:27:29.000 as much as I can, to know that it's flowing 1:27:29.040 --> 1:27:31.400 through me, that it doesn't belong to me, that my 1:27:31.479 --> 1:27:34.880 ego is a complete construct, that the stories that I 1:27:34.880 --> 1:27:38.400 tell myself are both important for the reasons that they 1:27:38.520 --> 1:27:43.240 lead to songwriting, but also completely meaningless, and that the 1:27:43.320 --> 1:27:46.280 sooner I'm able to break those down, the less attached, 1:27:46.320 --> 1:27:50.080 I will get to this white knuckling through life sensation 1:27:50.200 --> 1:27:52.760 that I had had for all that time. And so 1:27:53.360 --> 1:27:59.400 to answer your question, I wanted world domination and I'm 1:27:59.400 --> 1:28:00.000 going for it. 1:28:01.160 --> 1:28:03.040 And I think I can show. 1:28:02.840 --> 1:28:05.000 From the design my record cover that that's what I'm 1:28:05.160 --> 1:28:08.519 that's I designed that record cover myself with the very 1:28:08.560 --> 1:28:12.000 specific intention that if it's on a shelf and you're 1:28:12.040 --> 1:28:14.280 at Walmart, or if you're at a gas station, or 1:28:14.320 --> 1:28:16.439 if you're at Target, or if you're I hate that 1:28:16.479 --> 1:28:19.120 I haven't listened a single record store yet, but that's 1:28:19.200 --> 1:28:24.920 just reality. It is a billboard from the most obnoxious 1:28:25.040 --> 1:28:28.960 commercial time in the nineteen nineties, when everybody was in 1:28:28.960 --> 1:28:34.679 competition with the most shocking, you know images, and I thought, Okay, 1:28:34.880 --> 1:28:39.040 I'll just put my cameltoe on my record cover. That 1:28:39.120 --> 1:28:42.320 can skip all the apologetic bullshit and get right to 1:28:42.400 --> 1:28:45.160 the point so that people really know that they need 1:28:45.200 --> 1:28:46.840 to be strapped in for this one. 1:28:48.240 --> 1:28:51.479 Okay, you know, you have the process, You write, the songs, 1:28:51.520 --> 1:28:53.160 you record, and they come out. You got to sell 1:28:53.160 --> 1:28:56.280 them to what degree do you ultimately, you know, once 1:28:56.640 --> 1:29:00.240 your home off the road, say okay, look at the 1:29:00.280 --> 1:29:02.840 record company, look at the grosses, look at the Is 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:04.679 this going in the right or wrong direction? 1:29:05.080 --> 1:29:08.160 No? I literally don't check those emails, and sometimes they'll 1:29:08.200 --> 1:29:11.639 get through and it's it's been really good news lately, 1:29:12.200 --> 1:29:13.280 which is really lovely. 1:29:13.880 --> 1:29:14.040 Uh. 1:29:14.479 --> 1:29:16.320 It's not that I'm afraid of bad news. I'm not 1:29:16.439 --> 1:29:20.519 interested in either news. I really can't. I can't. I'm 1:29:20.680 --> 1:29:23.280 very lucky to say that. I know I sound like 1:29:25.520 --> 1:29:29.680 laissez faire and maybe potentially ignorant and ungrateful for the 1:29:29.720 --> 1:29:31.800 people that work really hard for me, which I'm not. 1:29:32.720 --> 1:29:35.280 I am so so not ignorant of what they do. 1:29:35.360 --> 1:29:40.280 But I cannot. I cannot make space in my in 1:29:40.360 --> 1:29:45.280 my head for the worrying, because if I do, this 1:29:45.360 --> 1:29:47.960 is what happens. I just want to rip the band 1:29:47.960 --> 1:29:51.040 aid off and go pick a new career. If it's 1:29:51.080 --> 1:29:54.719 not fun for me, If this feels like the blister 1:29:54.920 --> 1:29:58.120 on my heel because I picked cowboy boots instead of 1:29:58.200 --> 1:30:02.439 beach sandals, then fuck, I'm going to the beach. You know. 1:30:03.600 --> 1:30:06.120 I really don't think and I was lucky to fall 1:30:06.160 --> 1:30:09.720 into that moment in the music industry where I have 1:30:09.800 --> 1:30:15.080 this name that is somehow like there it's not there 1:30:15.120 --> 1:30:18.639 like Taylor Swift, and it's not there in the way 1:30:18.640 --> 1:30:21.360 that it used to be, but it's it's there the 1:30:21.400 --> 1:30:24.320 way that the artists that I love were there for 1:30:24.400 --> 1:30:28.600 me when I was growing up, And to be a 1:30:28.680 --> 1:30:32.280 presence in that way already feels like I've accomplished so much. 1:30:32.560 --> 1:30:35.120 You know, after singing Get Me Shelter on stage with 1:30:35.160 --> 1:30:37.760 the Rolling Stones, I could have just dropped the mic 1:30:37.840 --> 1:30:39.960 and said, bye, I'm going to go make a million 1:30:40.000 --> 1:30:43.080 babies and live in Switzerland and bury my money and bye, 1:30:43.120 --> 1:30:46.160 you know, And there's times where I kind of want to. 1:30:46.640 --> 1:30:51.519 But in the meantime, I think it's so fun that 1:30:51.560 --> 1:30:53.200 we get to do this for a living, and I 1:30:53.240 --> 1:30:56.479 think that it's so hilarious that I'm still getting away 1:30:56.520 --> 1:30:59.360 with it and that people are actually willing to be 1:30:59.360 --> 1:31:01.880 there help me do it, and you. 1:31:01.840 --> 1:31:04.439 Know, okay, for me, let's just say most people have 1:31:04.560 --> 1:31:07.360 not seen both sides of the fence. You talk about 1:31:07.400 --> 1:31:10.759 singing with the Stones, Yeah, and live is more important 1:31:10.800 --> 1:31:15.000 than ever. But talking about recordings, you made a record 1:31:15.040 --> 1:31:18.800 with Kenny Chesney, who's a country superstar, you and Tequila 1:31:19.120 --> 1:31:23.040 that was a huge hit. Yeah, what was that experience 1:31:23.200 --> 1:31:24.840 like for you it. 1:31:24.880 --> 1:31:27.800 Was awesome, and I think it was. I was blindsided 1:31:27.840 --> 1:31:31.000 by what it would do for my career and also 1:31:31.280 --> 1:31:35.760 what it would change about my fan base, and how 1:31:35.800 --> 1:31:40.280 it propelled me into a limelight that continues to this day. 1:31:40.680 --> 1:31:43.720 I mean, I was just on an email about this 1:31:44.120 --> 1:31:49.479 about him and today and everywhere I go. It is 1:31:50.280 --> 1:31:54.040 one of the great gifts that the music cosmos handed me, 1:31:55.400 --> 1:31:57.880 in the same way that they handed me Mayvis Staples 1:31:57.920 --> 1:32:02.599 in the Fair Godmother that she is to me with 1:32:02.720 --> 1:32:07.280 advice and love and respect and joy and inspiration. Kenny 1:32:07.439 --> 1:32:12.559 is such a true gift because it really was this 1:32:12.840 --> 1:32:14.720 like it felt like a joke when I got the 1:32:14.720 --> 1:32:17.519 phone call and was invited to sing on that song. 1:32:19.920 --> 1:32:23.760 It's turned into the catalyst for a lot of the 1:32:23.760 --> 1:32:27.920 other successes I've had, and the reason why probably a 1:32:27.960 --> 1:32:30.000 lot of the things I can do to this day 1:32:30.520 --> 1:32:36.439 are so so possible. But yet I think the hunger 1:32:36.640 --> 1:32:39.240 that I see in him, and the work ethic and 1:32:39.280 --> 1:32:44.920 the drive and the Nashville approach to things that machine 1:32:45.280 --> 1:32:48.400 terrifies me. I think it's something that I wouldn't want 1:32:48.560 --> 1:32:53.080 in my life. I can't believe the strength that is 1:32:53.120 --> 1:33:00.200 required to maintain that agenda and those expectations, and so 1:33:00.240 --> 1:33:02.719 in a way, I think when I when you mentioned Taylor, 1:33:04.000 --> 1:33:06.519 you know, touring with Tim McGraw and meeting Faith Hill 1:33:06.640 --> 1:33:10.759 and her amazing daughters, and the families that come along 1:33:10.840 --> 1:33:15.519 for this ride, Derek and Susan, you know, Warren Haynes, 1:33:15.640 --> 1:33:18.960 and these characters that have come into my life over 1:33:19.000 --> 1:33:21.200 and over again, from a Kenny Chesney to a a 1:33:21.280 --> 1:33:25.880 Wayne Coyn. I have found that it is the not 1:33:26.080 --> 1:33:29.960 belonging that keeps me in the balance and in the 1:33:29.960 --> 1:33:32.960 presence of people's minds, as the like what the fuck character, 1:33:33.360 --> 1:33:35.599 you know, And I love being the what the fuck character? 1:33:36.320 --> 1:33:38.880 You know. I'm like Francis mcdormant. I just show up 1:33:38.880 --> 1:33:40.720 in all the cool movies and you're like, oh man, 1:33:40.760 --> 1:33:43.280 it's her again. Yeah, I love her, but you're like, 1:33:43.400 --> 1:33:45.920 what the fuck is she? Okay? Now, this is good. 1:33:45.960 --> 1:33:46.559 This is good. 1:33:46.800 --> 1:33:47.000 You know. 1:33:48.360 --> 1:33:51.000 I'll be Francis mcdormandt of rock and roll for the 1:33:51.000 --> 1:33:56.960 rest of my life if you want. 1:33:59.360 --> 1:34:02.120 Okay, So let's say you're in Vermont, you go to 1:34:02.160 --> 1:34:05.519 Saint Johnsbury, you go to Londonderry, you're filling up with gas. 1:34:05.560 --> 1:34:08.400 You go in the convenience store. Are you recognized? 1:34:09.439 --> 1:34:12.599 Not as much as you'd think, But when I am, 1:34:12.680 --> 1:34:18.200 it's like a thing. Yeah, I'm recognized more often in 1:34:18.320 --> 1:34:21.599 Nashville than in New York City than anywhere else, which 1:34:21.640 --> 1:34:27.160 is very interesting. Specifically at airports, yeah, airports Denver, Chicago, 1:34:27.240 --> 1:34:34.520 and then on the street in Nashville, in Philadelphia, and 1:34:34.520 --> 1:34:37.720 an in Florida. Lot of Florida recognition. I don't know how. 1:34:37.840 --> 1:34:40.000 I don't know how. It's very interesting. 1:34:40.040 --> 1:34:42.360 Well, do you ever think twice, maybe you're into panga 1:34:42.400 --> 1:34:44.160 wherever you are, say oh, I just want to go 1:34:44.240 --> 1:34:47.360 to the grocery store and pick some shit up. You say, 1:34:47.400 --> 1:34:49.439 oh god, I got to fix my hairs. I'm going 1:34:49.520 --> 1:34:50.560 to be recognized. 1:34:51.200 --> 1:34:55.040 It's it's so weird. It's kind of the opposite because 1:34:55.040 --> 1:34:57.920 in California, everybody's famous or thinks they are, and so 1:34:58.200 --> 1:35:02.000 everybody wanders around like, yeah, I know, it's me, you know. 1:35:02.439 --> 1:35:06.479 But being that Vermont is such a small state, it's 1:35:06.479 --> 1:35:09.240 actually a little more stressful for me. I put way 1:35:09.280 --> 1:35:13.000 more thought into walking out the door and how I'm 1:35:13.040 --> 1:35:15.960 presenting in Vermont. And I think it's because I have 1:35:16.040 --> 1:35:21.000 this slightly political bent to my presence here. There's always 1:35:21.040 --> 1:35:23.439 something to do. There's a fundraiser, or there's you know, 1:35:23.720 --> 1:35:26.599 just on Saturday, it was with Bernie Sanders all day 1:35:27.520 --> 1:35:30.960 raising awareness for the arts and trying to create culture, 1:35:31.040 --> 1:35:33.479 bring back the bread and circus, so that we have 1:35:33.640 --> 1:35:38.160 something to defend here, something bigger than ourselves. And art 1:35:38.320 --> 1:35:42.360 and music is that bigger thing that conscious humans are 1:35:42.439 --> 1:35:45.800 capable of creating. And it's getting cut. The budgets are 1:35:45.800 --> 1:35:48.760 getting cut. And so I'm sitting here in this situation 1:35:48.880 --> 1:35:52.160 of again being the weird person that's kind of flowing 1:35:52.200 --> 1:35:56.600 through my life with what I believe is my purpose. 1:35:58.640 --> 1:36:03.160 Vanity rarely plays to it as much as optics of 1:36:03.240 --> 1:36:06.679 like where this might go someday, what my kid might see, 1:36:06.800 --> 1:36:09.439 you know, like me breastfeeding the stranger at the In 1:36:09.479 --> 1:36:11.439 and Out Burger that we discussed at the beginning of 1:36:11.479 --> 1:36:15.160 the interview, Like I'm glad there was no video of that. 1:36:15.320 --> 1:36:18.840 But I looked so good that night, Okay I did. 1:36:19.000 --> 1:36:22.439 I looked fucking hot and my tit's were leaking milk 1:36:22.720 --> 1:36:24.799 and it was the kind of milk that gets you drunk. 1:36:25.160 --> 1:36:29.360 So anyways, back to what you were asking, the answer 1:36:29.439 --> 1:36:31.479 is no, I really don't. I mean I don't get 1:36:31.520 --> 1:36:34.280 noticed that much. I'm not that kind of famous, okay 1:36:34.320 --> 1:36:35.120 that way. 1:36:35.120 --> 1:36:39.320 And then what about being an attractive woman in a 1:36:39.400 --> 1:36:45.040 music business that is really male dominated. For every ten 1:36:45.240 --> 1:36:49.559 guys who are reasonable and respectful, there's one or two 1:36:49.640 --> 1:36:53.040 complete assholes. So what's it? What's it like for you? 1:36:53.800 --> 1:37:00.479 That's that's the eternal question for a lot of women 1:37:00.520 --> 1:37:05.200 who have observed my process. I don't ask that question 1:37:05.280 --> 1:37:08.519 as much as I enjoy the body I got this 1:37:08.640 --> 1:37:11.200 time around, because I was definitely a dude in every 1:37:11.200 --> 1:37:13.960 other life. This is the first time I've ever had tits, 1:37:14.400 --> 1:37:17.360 so it's been fun to be on this particular journey. 1:37:19.479 --> 1:37:22.920 And I think that the identity politics of is she 1:37:23.040 --> 1:37:25.360 a hot girl? You know, the sort of rock and 1:37:25.439 --> 1:37:29.240 roll barbie stuff, has finally settled, like that dust has 1:37:29.280 --> 1:37:32.960 finally settled. I've discussed it to a point where I'm 1:37:32.960 --> 1:37:35.880 also just I've aged out of that being such a 1:37:35.920 --> 1:37:38.920 hot pressure point for people. And now it's just like 1:37:39.080 --> 1:37:41.479 it goes without saying that when you signed with Disney, 1:37:41.560 --> 1:37:45.840 your image changed, and now everybody knows that that was 1:37:45.880 --> 1:37:49.080 me doing that, because suddenly somebody wanted to play dress 1:37:49.160 --> 1:37:50.920 up with me, like for the first time ever in 1:37:50.920 --> 1:37:56.600 my life, people were paying attention and helping me to play, 1:37:56.680 --> 1:37:59.759 you know, to play dress up and explore the visual 1:38:00.200 --> 1:38:04.439 stimulation that is a woman in a male dominated business. 1:38:05.400 --> 1:38:10.600 I think it served me in a few different ways. 1:38:10.680 --> 1:38:14.280 Where it failed me, it was character building because I 1:38:14.320 --> 1:38:19.200 don't have victim energy, you know, I don't come into 1:38:19.200 --> 1:38:22.040 a situation with a huge amount of fear that I'm 1:38:22.040 --> 1:38:26.640 going to be dominated. I'm surprisingly shy, but I do 1:38:26.800 --> 1:38:30.520 kind of clock the room, read the room first, and 1:38:30.960 --> 1:38:34.880 figure out what feels on multiple levels, like the right 1:38:35.520 --> 1:38:39.040 approach visually. And so when I'm dressing for a show 1:38:39.080 --> 1:38:41.599 and I'm thinking about that, when there's a context for everything. 1:38:42.280 --> 1:38:45.480 And I love fashion, it's just like I love storytelling. 1:38:45.520 --> 1:38:47.680 It's just like I love filmmaking, and it's how I 1:38:47.680 --> 1:38:53.080 love painting. There is a different tone to every situation 1:38:53.360 --> 1:38:58.240 you find yourself in, and I have definitely leaned on 1:38:59.160 --> 1:39:03.920 my legs and my physical appearance because it's a medium, 1:39:04.040 --> 1:39:07.519 just like the guitar or a tambourine or a ham 1:39:07.520 --> 1:39:12.639 and be three organ or fucking bagpipes. Every single texture 1:39:12.680 --> 1:39:16.480 and tone that is called for in any one room, 1:39:16.800 --> 1:39:19.800 there is a medium for that, and Oftentimes in my 1:39:19.880 --> 1:39:23.200 life with the music business, or at an award show 1:39:23.280 --> 1:39:26.320 or at a radio convention, people have thrown me those 1:39:26.360 --> 1:39:30.320 curveballs and those unexpectedly inappropriate Just what the fuck are 1:39:30.360 --> 1:39:36.920 you talking about? Questions or just propositions or inappropriate statements. 1:39:38.160 --> 1:39:40.719 But no motherfucker has ever tried to touch me, because 1:39:40.720 --> 1:39:43.599 I just come at them with I think an energy 1:39:43.880 --> 1:39:48.240 that already is a little bit creepier than they are. 1:39:49.960 --> 1:39:54.240 You know, I mean, that's really what it is. I 1:39:54.400 --> 1:39:55.120 an aggressor. 1:39:55.520 --> 1:39:59.000 You just mentioned being shy one of the things you 1:39:59.040 --> 1:40:01.120 said earlier. This stuff out my brain. Well, you know, 1:40:01.120 --> 1:40:03.720 I want to make a record. I have my fantasy 1:40:03.760 --> 1:40:07.080 lists I made contact. Are you the type of person 1:40:07.160 --> 1:40:10.240 who has no problem, no fear, or you're saying, you know, 1:40:10.479 --> 1:40:13.479 let me have somebody else call or I'll wait till 1:40:13.479 --> 1:40:16.040 the phone rings. What do you really like? 1:40:19.439 --> 1:40:23.040 I like being alone. I like being left alone, and 1:40:23.080 --> 1:40:25.360 I like to feel like I'm being given a chance 1:40:25.400 --> 1:40:31.760 to make a choice. When I'm not, I feel extremely 1:40:31.800 --> 1:40:38.000 cloistered and not suffocated, but angry. I get very bitter 1:40:38.439 --> 1:40:43.000 when I feel like choices are being made for me 1:40:43.120 --> 1:40:48.920 and the outcomes are beyond my knowledge and someone is like, 1:40:49.080 --> 1:40:52.160 this will be best for you, you know, which is 1:40:52.200 --> 1:40:55.200 again that's why I avoided Eric Valentine for almost ten 1:40:55.320 --> 1:40:58.479 whole years, because everybody kept telling me to meet with 1:40:58.640 --> 1:41:04.439 Eric Valentine. I think the solitude that I seek is 1:41:04.560 --> 1:41:08.760 usually because I have a roundabout way of getting to 1:41:09.240 --> 1:41:13.120 my gut feelings. There's always the initial gut of like, 1:41:13.600 --> 1:41:18.280 hey you, you know, there's two offers have come in. 1:41:18.400 --> 1:41:20.479 One is would get you to Red Rocks, So you 1:41:20.479 --> 1:41:22.400 could do two nights at Red Rocks. Looks like we're 1:41:22.400 --> 1:41:24.880 probably gonna be able to headline this year, but you'd 1:41:24.920 --> 1:41:26.760 have to have a strong support and it would be 1:41:26.800 --> 1:41:29.800 a double bill versus one night at Red Rocks with 1:41:29.960 --> 1:41:35.200 just you, gut instinct, just me, smart me, two days totally, 1:41:35.240 --> 1:41:37.200 let's do the double bill with a strong support or 1:41:37.240 --> 1:41:41.400 whatever you want to call it. Like I know that 1:41:41.400 --> 1:41:46.080 that time required is really just my own ritual of 1:41:46.400 --> 1:41:51.479 coming to terms with reality because the fantasy that I 1:41:51.520 --> 1:41:54.559 live inside, like I said, it's this lightning bolt way 1:41:54.600 --> 1:41:58.920 of approaching life is and can be extremely chaotic. But 1:41:59.560 --> 1:42:02.800 if there's stillness in the midst of that, if I 1:42:02.840 --> 1:42:06.560 can find those places to center myself and find the 1:42:06.920 --> 1:42:10.360 places where I can understand that the thoughts I'm having 1:42:10.400 --> 1:42:13.679 are just thoughts. Then I don't need to be defined 1:42:13.720 --> 1:42:18.240 by my former impressions of myself and just make a 1:42:18.320 --> 1:42:20.960 choice that I think is going to bring as much 1:42:21.000 --> 1:42:23.280 of what I really want to share with the world 1:42:23.320 --> 1:42:26.920 out into the world in the best way possible. That 1:42:26.960 --> 1:42:29.559 goes for being a mom and a family member. And 1:42:29.640 --> 1:42:31.679 it's why we moved to Vermont. It's all the things 1:42:31.760 --> 1:42:34.920 that we've been talking about today, but more than anything, 1:42:35.200 --> 1:42:38.679 because we are talking about the music industry. I think 1:42:38.760 --> 1:42:43.360 I need more time sometimes by myself than most people, 1:42:43.360 --> 1:42:46.920 which is why I rent a car a lot, because 1:42:47.080 --> 1:42:51.639 I don't like driving in the car with passengers. I've 1:42:51.680 --> 1:42:52.840 got enough of them right here. 1:42:53.120 --> 1:42:59.439 Okay, let's just leave out practicality, childcare, etc. I call 1:42:59.520 --> 1:43:02.960 you up to and say literally today and say come 1:43:02.960 --> 1:43:07.439 to dinner. You're going to say yes, so, And then 1:43:07.520 --> 1:43:09.680 I say, well, come to dinner tonight. And there's a 1:43:09.720 --> 1:43:14.080 party tomorrow night, and there's a picnic for families on Sunday. 1:43:14.320 --> 1:43:16.439 You Andry go, Wow, that's way too much stuff. 1:43:16.520 --> 1:43:19.080 That's too much. Yeah, So the big long plan, and 1:43:19.120 --> 1:43:22.160 that's what just happened to us actually yesterday in Vermont, 1:43:22.200 --> 1:43:25.320 I got invited last minute to a dinner which was 1:43:25.920 --> 1:43:29.280 a really cool fundraiser and brought in all the farms, 1:43:29.360 --> 1:43:33.719 family farms, and chefs and foodies from all around Vermont 1:43:33.960 --> 1:43:37.720 and brought them together onto this gorgeous tasting menu. And 1:43:37.840 --> 1:43:42.120 it was sort of a wonderful, elbow rubbing opportunity for 1:43:42.160 --> 1:43:44.200 me to go meet a bunch of local farmers and 1:43:45.080 --> 1:43:49.320 reintegrate into the world of Vermont in a way that 1:43:49.360 --> 1:43:52.679 I think is important for the development that I'm trying 1:43:52.680 --> 1:43:56.960 to do. And it involved a huge amount of logistics 1:43:57.000 --> 1:44:00.160 after we had already figured out that we did and 1:44:00.200 --> 1:44:03.280 have childcare, and Eric was like, but I already bought 1:44:03.320 --> 1:44:06.080 the tickets, and then I found out it's not kid friendly, 1:44:06.600 --> 1:44:09.960 So there was that moment of like, oh shit, but 1:44:10.000 --> 1:44:12.920 the tickets were really expensive and I wanted to, you know, go, 1:44:13.280 --> 1:44:17.280 So we actually called up a friend and orchestrated the 1:44:17.280 --> 1:44:20.400 complicated logistics that you just mentioned. The picnic the next day, 1:44:20.439 --> 1:44:23.559 the childcare, the overnight. Oh in this somebody else's family 1:44:23.680 --> 1:44:25.040 is going to be there, so is there parking for 1:44:25.080 --> 1:44:28.040 the extra car? And we did all of it and 1:44:28.120 --> 1:44:32.360 it actually worked, but I almost missed a couple of 1:44:32.400 --> 1:44:36.559 interviews because of it today, because there's not reception between 1:44:36.600 --> 1:44:40.960 Shelburne Farms and our home here in Waitesfield. So I said, 1:44:41.000 --> 1:44:43.160 as long as I get back for Bob's interview, will 1:44:43.200 --> 1:44:44.560 be good. And that was that. 1:44:44.760 --> 1:44:45.200 You were my. 1:44:45.160 --> 1:44:48.320 Goalpost for the day. But that's the level of chaos 1:44:48.320 --> 1:44:51.040 and spontaneity that exists in the Potter family. It's what 1:44:51.120 --> 1:44:53.160 I grew up with, and it's it's my truth. It's 1:44:53.200 --> 1:44:55.519 just who I am. And Eric's got to deal with it. 1:44:56.800 --> 1:45:02.040 Okay, now you talk about you know, life crisis, etc. Yeah, 1:45:02.360 --> 1:45:04.599 was turning forty difficult? 1:45:05.040 --> 1:45:08.120 No, it was delicious. This was a new high for 1:45:08.240 --> 1:45:13.320 me because I think I needed a bumper sticker number 1:45:13.760 --> 1:45:18.639 for just I think passing the kidney stone that has 1:45:18.680 --> 1:45:21.720 been this last four years of bullshit. You know, I 1:45:21.720 --> 1:45:24.800 think we all have had our own versions of it, 1:45:24.880 --> 1:45:30.960 but for me, forty just feels like an affirmation, a justification, 1:45:31.640 --> 1:45:37.479 an emancipation from all former promises to self, you know. 1:45:38.479 --> 1:45:42.400 Yeah, Okay, now you mentioned Bernie Sanders, whose unique character. 1:45:43.000 --> 1:45:45.519 When I went to college in Vermont, it was red. 1:45:46.200 --> 1:45:51.160 Now it's more blue than red. Yeah, Okay, we live 1:45:51.200 --> 1:45:55.920 in a very divided country. Is this something you think about? 1:45:56.120 --> 1:45:59.080 You say, well, I better not say this or do this, 1:45:59.200 --> 1:46:02.240 because it might have been some of my audience members. 1:46:03.360 --> 1:46:07.479 I do. Actually, the problem is that I have such 1:46:07.680 --> 1:46:11.080 a diarrhea mouth, and I'm so poorly educated on what 1:46:11.200 --> 1:46:15.559 is blue or or green or red anymore in the 1:46:15.600 --> 1:46:18.439 statements that I'm making, because I don't live in the 1:46:18.479 --> 1:46:24.479 cadence of linguistic times of now. I'm from elsewhere. So 1:46:24.840 --> 1:46:28.559 when I'm communicating and I say something that's taken out 1:46:28.560 --> 1:46:31.400 of context or that I'm just truly just talking shit 1:46:31.400 --> 1:46:34.320 and don't know what I'm saying, I usually try to 1:46:34.360 --> 1:46:36.599 stop myself and go I think I'm just talking shit 1:46:36.640 --> 1:46:39.040 and I don't really know what I'm talking about. But 1:46:40.080 --> 1:46:43.400 and so I rarely go into politics to the point 1:46:43.400 --> 1:46:46.000 where like me and Bernie, this is the first time 1:46:46.040 --> 1:46:48.720 we've done this collaboration, and it's because it's touching on 1:46:48.800 --> 1:46:51.960 a point that is extremely important to me. Separate of 1:46:52.000 --> 1:46:57.200 supporting any one person and siding with or saddling up 1:46:57.240 --> 1:47:02.960 to anybody. I'm friends with many politicians on both sides 1:47:02.960 --> 1:47:06.920 of the fence, both in Vermont and everywhere in the States. 1:47:07.360 --> 1:47:11.560 But I also feel like it's more and more dangerous 1:47:11.640 --> 1:47:15.880 to tread in those waters. The cancel culture has gone 1:47:17.080 --> 1:47:21.120 in one direction, and the woke culture has also pulled 1:47:21.120 --> 1:47:27.400 me into many things that I think, Yeah, the spiral 1:47:27.479 --> 1:47:31.320 goes both ways, and there's been fear, and there's been vindication, 1:47:31.520 --> 1:47:34.560 and there's been sea I'm right, and the justification the 1:47:34.960 --> 1:47:37.679 conversation that goes on within myself because I'm a Gemini 1:47:38.840 --> 1:47:42.280 battles with all of the same content that we all 1:47:42.280 --> 1:47:45.040 are battling with, and nobody wants to get canceled. But 1:47:46.800 --> 1:47:49.400 because that would that would be devastating. I genuinely would 1:47:49.400 --> 1:47:54.120 hate to have let the world down by not being 1:47:54.160 --> 1:47:59.200 able to have my music be taken with love and 1:47:59.400 --> 1:48:04.200 feel like suddenly, not only did I say one thing 1:48:04.320 --> 1:48:07.160 that changes, or did I side with the wrong side 1:48:07.200 --> 1:48:08.759 or be on the wrong side of history or whatever. 1:48:09.320 --> 1:48:12.439 It would be so sad to lose an opportunity to 1:48:12.479 --> 1:48:16.680 continue creating in a way that I feel is intrinsically 1:48:16.720 --> 1:48:19.639 there for people just showing up and being there. So 1:48:20.040 --> 1:48:24.639 I do try to tread really lightly in the way 1:48:24.680 --> 1:48:28.160 that many Nashville folks do. I think I was trained 1:48:28.439 --> 1:48:34.280 under the feet of many brilliant performers who have sided 1:48:34.320 --> 1:48:36.960 with the things they're really really passionate about and spoken 1:48:37.000 --> 1:48:39.760 out when it's time to and paid the price for it. 1:48:41.200 --> 1:48:44.840 And also I've seen that respect and that flow. I've 1:48:44.840 --> 1:48:47.760 been around long enough to see where maybe it was 1:48:47.840 --> 1:48:50.000 a scary thing to talk about ten years ago, but 1:48:50.120 --> 1:48:54.560 now it's a little bit more in the collective consciousness. 1:48:55.040 --> 1:48:58.080 So when I don't know what I'm talking about, I 1:48:58.120 --> 1:49:02.000 think is the place where I need the I need 1:49:02.000 --> 1:49:04.759 the bottleneck. I need that like handle or that person 1:49:04.760 --> 1:49:07.719 who wears that hat we were talking about before, somebody 1:49:07.720 --> 1:49:10.720 else with the hat to come and uh and and 1:49:10.800 --> 1:49:13.800 put a lid on me. Because if I don't feel 1:49:13.800 --> 1:49:18.240 passionate about it, I'm probably just pontificating and maybe even 1:49:18.320 --> 1:49:21.880 forming a song in my head something that starts to 1:49:21.920 --> 1:49:24.360 feel like I can make sense of it. You know, 1:49:24.439 --> 1:49:29.720 Metaphors are a very dangerous tool, and language is powerful, 1:49:30.240 --> 1:49:34.960 and it's a it's a process to follow down the 1:49:35.040 --> 1:49:37.240 yellow brick road of exactly where we're going with all 1:49:37.320 --> 1:49:40.280 this stuff. I'm very uncomfortable with it, to be totally honest. 1:49:40.880 --> 1:49:44.559 Jason Alden has a song about a small town saying 1:49:44.720 --> 1:49:48.800 essentially what you do in the city wouldn't work in 1:49:48.840 --> 1:49:51.599 a small town. He grew up in Macon, Georgia, which 1:49:51.640 --> 1:49:54.320 is not a small town. R you grew up in 1:49:54.360 --> 1:49:58.320 a small town. What's it really like in a small town. 1:49:59.000 --> 1:50:02.559 Well, it really is. I think the most important thing 1:50:02.600 --> 1:50:06.040 is accountability. Like everybody knows everybody, and if my kid 1:50:06.600 --> 1:50:09.000 spit in the eye of another kid at school, it 1:50:09.040 --> 1:50:12.000 would be a big problem, and it would it would 1:50:12.000 --> 1:50:15.519 be something that was discussed by everybody, whether they were 1:50:15.520 --> 1:50:18.080 involved or not, and whether they're they were in the 1:50:18.160 --> 1:50:21.160 room and saw what happened or not. And it's not 1:50:21.200 --> 1:50:25.439 just a gossip mill. It's about the accountability being the 1:50:25.479 --> 1:50:28.400 positive side of it as well, not just the sad, bad, 1:50:28.920 --> 1:50:32.479 puritanical judgment that you get from people, but also the 1:50:32.920 --> 1:50:35.840 like do they need help? Does this family? Is this 1:50:35.880 --> 1:50:38.120 family struggling because usually a kid is acting out in 1:50:38.120 --> 1:50:41.040 school because X, Y or Z must be going wrong 1:50:41.120 --> 1:50:45.240 and they're trying to convey their their problems in school 1:50:45.360 --> 1:50:48.479 or whatever it is that's never happened. I really hope 1:50:48.479 --> 1:50:51.800 my kid doesn't ever spit in someone's eye. But but 1:50:51.880 --> 1:50:55.680 there have been so many moments back home where that 1:50:55.800 --> 1:51:01.360 accountability is both a relief and like a very nurturing, 1:51:02.360 --> 1:51:06.360 like almost a hug from a mother feeling, but also 1:51:06.439 --> 1:51:10.519 can be kind of crushing and isolating if you feel 1:51:10.560 --> 1:51:14.280 like your belief system or the things that you want 1:51:14.360 --> 1:51:17.639 for your family, or the culture that you're hungry for 1:51:18.280 --> 1:51:22.160 that doesn't exist in a small town is not only 1:51:22.280 --> 1:51:27.000 inappropriate but actually just kind of rude and uppity and crass. 1:51:27.040 --> 1:51:30.160 And you know. So it's been hard for me talking 1:51:30.160 --> 1:51:34.520 about this record in Vermont because I have this duality 1:51:34.680 --> 1:51:37.360 of the feeling of coming home being such a beautiful 1:51:37.439 --> 1:51:41.479 place and somewhere that I want to foster good things 1:51:41.520 --> 1:51:44.920 for and help elevate and escalate into a place of 1:51:45.720 --> 1:51:48.920 exactly what I remember about loving it, but also even 1:51:48.960 --> 1:51:53.639 more but also pining for that society and that culture 1:51:53.720 --> 1:51:57.600 and that sunshine and that you know, California dream and 1:51:58.080 --> 1:52:01.080 Joni Mitchell happy ending that I that I always thought 1:52:01.200 --> 1:52:04.240 I was going to live out. So it's been a 1:52:04.280 --> 1:52:07.720 really interesting thing, the small town conversation, and that you 1:52:07.760 --> 1:52:11.320 bring it up exactly now, because I, you know, I'm 1:52:11.400 --> 1:52:13.920 proud to be from a small town. I'm proud to 1:52:14.040 --> 1:52:16.360 know all the ins and outs. I kind of like 1:52:16.479 --> 1:52:20.599 the gossip by dirt and just the other day Kevin Streeter, 1:52:20.760 --> 1:52:24.600 who poured the foundation for our concrete here at the 1:52:24.600 --> 1:52:28.920 barn one at thunder Road, and he's like kicking ass 1:52:29.040 --> 1:52:32.200 race car driving guide. I'm like, whoa see now, that's 1:52:32.280 --> 1:52:35.839 like some magical small town stuff that made me proud 1:52:36.160 --> 1:52:39.639 to be from my town, Little Kevin Streeter from Waitsfield, Vermont. 1:52:39.680 --> 1:52:42.160 I was like, yeah, you know, it's just it's cool 1:52:42.240 --> 1:52:45.160 when when you can exist in both worlds and have 1:52:45.280 --> 1:52:48.479 seen things from both sides, it does change the way 1:52:48.520 --> 1:52:49.640 that you look at things. 1:52:49.640 --> 1:52:51.920 That's for sure. I Mean I spend a lot of 1:52:51.960 --> 1:52:55.760 time in small towns, which most people who pontificate have not, 1:52:56.720 --> 1:53:01.799 and I find, you know, you're branded very early window 1:53:02.400 --> 1:53:05.120 and then you're that person, you know. I was watching 1:53:05.160 --> 1:53:08.600 this show English show on streaming the other day on 1:53:08.640 --> 1:53:13.080 Amazon called Pure and the woman comes from Scotland and 1:53:13.240 --> 1:53:15.519 she's all uptight about who she is, and the person says, 1:53:15.560 --> 1:53:17.320 you're in London now, no one gives a shit. That's 1:53:17.320 --> 1:53:20.400 what I love about Lay. Everybody's so into their own trip. 1:53:20.800 --> 1:53:22.559 You could be whoever you want to be because they 1:53:22.600 --> 1:53:24.240 don't care. Yeah. 1:53:24.320 --> 1:53:27.759 I think that's the part about it that I think 1:53:27.880 --> 1:53:31.479 maybe it's the Benjamin Button approach to life, where I'm 1:53:31.520 --> 1:53:34.639 getting younger and more inappropriate in my old age. But 1:53:34.680 --> 1:53:37.519 there's not as much room for that here as there 1:53:37.560 --> 1:53:40.479 is in La But and I don't know the show 1:53:40.479 --> 1:53:42.120 pure but thank you for telling me about that, because 1:53:42.120 --> 1:53:44.000 I'm looking for a new show to watch right now 1:53:44.040 --> 1:53:45.880 for the tour bus. So I'm excited to get it. 1:53:46.000 --> 1:53:47.559 Well, well, just I was going to end it, but 1:53:47.640 --> 1:53:50.080 just before there. I wouldn't put that at the top 1:53:50.120 --> 1:53:52.439 of your list, but it's very interesting. Okay, all right, 1:53:53.360 --> 1:53:55.559 what have you watched that was good? 1:53:56.439 --> 1:53:59.559 Oh my god? I mean Nine Perfect Strangers was one 1:53:59.600 --> 1:54:03.920 that kind of blew my fucking head off last year. Obviously, 1:54:04.960 --> 1:54:08.760 I'm a big fan of anything that's based in the seventies. 1:54:08.800 --> 1:54:10.960 I don't know if that's obvious to people who don't 1:54:11.000 --> 1:54:13.719 know my music or what I'm into, but I really, really, 1:54:13.760 --> 1:54:19.840 really love seventies rock, funk, soul, gospel, disco. Just take 1:54:19.880 --> 1:54:22.400 me there, Just take me the fuck there. So The 1:54:22.479 --> 1:54:26.840 Serpent was the show that I really enjoyed. I love 1:54:27.200 --> 1:54:30.120 the comedic series. I think you should leave. I think 1:54:30.120 --> 1:54:32.800 it's some of the most soulful comedy in the world. 1:54:33.880 --> 1:54:41.440 And the performances, they're wonderful, Umbrella Academy, love God, there's 1:54:41.480 --> 1:54:44.680 so many I've really dived deep. I just finished The 1:54:44.760 --> 1:54:48.480 Righteous Gemstones. And of course Danny McBride is someone I 1:54:48.560 --> 1:54:52.520 got the lovely chance to bump into many many times, 1:54:52.600 --> 1:54:56.720 but most prominently when I was opening for the Rolling Stones. 1:54:56.840 --> 1:54:59.560 So I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm a cool guy. 1:55:00.200 --> 1:55:02.200 I can't remember exactly what I said to him, but 1:55:02.840 --> 1:55:05.040 it could have been dorky. It didn't matter. I was 1:55:05.200 --> 1:55:09.040 in like a silver flapper dress and I was singing 1:55:09.080 --> 1:55:11.600 on stage with mc jagger, so it really didn't matter. 1:55:11.720 --> 1:55:14.720 Okay, let's take that off. Let's take big Jagger off 1:55:14.840 --> 1:55:18.120 the table. It's a thing after itself. What's your number 1:55:18.240 --> 1:55:20.680 two or other than mc jagger, your number one? 1:55:20.840 --> 1:55:25.000 Pinch me moment singing I mean singing with Robert Plant, 1:55:25.160 --> 1:55:28.720 Patty Griffin, Emmy Lou Harris and Bonnie Rait on stage 1:55:28.760 --> 1:55:30.840 at the Love Rocks event. And New York goes right 1:55:30.920 --> 1:55:34.240 up there singing with Roger Waters and Mavis Staples and 1:55:34.320 --> 1:55:37.480 Lucinda Williams and John Mayer and Jim James at the 1:55:37.600 --> 1:55:42.960 levon Helm event. And you know there's I mean, I 1:55:43.040 --> 1:55:45.680 think that I do believe the strength and numbers pinch 1:55:45.800 --> 1:55:50.080 me thing is kind of harder to quantify because there's 1:55:50.160 --> 1:55:52.560 so many names and each one will tick a box 1:55:52.640 --> 1:55:55.840 for other people, so they have this associative thing. But 1:55:55.960 --> 1:55:58.720 the pinch me moment that I think means the most 1:55:59.240 --> 1:56:04.120 to me is my music festival. You know, like being 1:56:04.200 --> 1:56:07.360 up on stage watching other bands and knowing that I 1:56:07.560 --> 1:56:14.240 created something that not only has an enduring spirit beyond 1:56:14.760 --> 1:56:18.680 just that day, but that these bands that are here 1:56:18.800 --> 1:56:21.919 playing wouldn't have come to Vermont or come to the waterfront. 1:56:21.960 --> 1:56:25.120 Grandpoint North is the festival I'm talking about the festival 1:56:25.160 --> 1:56:29.760 that I developed with Matt Burr, my partner in Crime 1:56:29.880 --> 1:56:33.520 on the Road and Beyond, and my first husband and 1:56:33.720 --> 1:56:37.400 Alex Cruthers from Higher Ground. That whole experience of really 1:56:37.520 --> 1:56:40.040 dreaming up and envisioning what it could be and then 1:56:40.120 --> 1:56:47.000 watching it come to life was Yeah, the best feeling 1:56:47.040 --> 1:56:50.360 I've ever had, other than giving birth to my son, 1:56:50.800 --> 1:56:54.200 you know, just knowing that I was able to force 1:56:54.920 --> 1:56:59.600 something that seemed completely impossible into being and that it 1:56:59.800 --> 1:57:03.360 was going to be celebrating its tenth anniversary this year. 1:57:03.920 --> 1:57:05.440 Well, well was it coming back? 1:57:06.400 --> 1:57:10.080 I hope so, babe, I mean, listen, this is this 1:57:10.280 --> 1:57:13.360 is the long journey of the music festival business, which 1:57:13.400 --> 1:57:16.200 is I think a whole other that might take a 1:57:16.240 --> 1:57:16.680 whole other. 1:57:17.840 --> 1:57:20.360 Okay, we'll leave it at that grace. You've been very 1:57:20.560 --> 1:57:22.880 open and honest. I want to thank you so much 1:57:22.960 --> 1:57:24.720 for taking the time with my audience. 1:57:25.360 --> 1:57:27.920 Absolutely, I love the show. I listened to it all 1:57:27.960 --> 1:57:30.080 the time. I tried so hard not to geek out 1:57:30.120 --> 1:57:33.200 and reference a bunch of episodes because you're asking me 1:57:33.280 --> 1:57:35.120 what shows I watch? I'm like, well, what about what 1:57:35.200 --> 1:57:38.320 shows I listened to? Thank you for having me on. 1:57:38.400 --> 1:57:41.040 I was so delighted to be able to be here 1:57:41.080 --> 1:57:42.200 and have this conversation with you. 1:57:42.360 --> 1:57:44.840 As I say, you were great, no holds barred. It 1:57:45.000 --> 1:57:46.840 was the real you. I really want to thank you 1:57:48.080 --> 1:57:50.560 untill next time. This is Bob left set 1:58:12.680 --> 1:58:12.720 S