1
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,840
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

2
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,880
Speaker 1: My guest today is Grace Potter, who has a new

3
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:22,159
Speaker 1: album entitled Mother Road. Grace. One of the lyrics on

4
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,560
Speaker 1: the album mentions In and Out Burger. Are you a

5
00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:25,800
Speaker 1: fan of In and Out Burger?

6
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:32,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? Ever since I saw The Big Lebowski and there's

7
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,960
Speaker 2: no In and Out Burgers in Vermont. So I saw

8
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,559
Speaker 2: the movie and was like, my American dream was to

9
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,320
Speaker 2: go to find it In and Out Burger at some

10
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:42,720
Speaker 2: point in my life, and I did.

11
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 1: So does it live up to the legend?

12
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,080
Speaker 2: It does, especially when you breastfeed somebody in an In

13
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 2: and Out Burger, which did happen.

14
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:52,160
Speaker 1: What happened there?

15
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,760
Speaker 2: I had been drinking and I was out with some

16
00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 2: friends I had been I was also a nursing new

17
00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,360
Speaker 2: mother who was given a night out on the town

18
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:08,200
Speaker 2: with the girls, and I had way too much alcohol

19
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,480
Speaker 2: to go home, and just like pump and there was

20
00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 2: a guy there who was like, I'll drink the milk.

21
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,440
Speaker 2: So I was like, awesome. So I got a dude

22
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,440
Speaker 2: drunk off of my booby milk at an In and

23
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 2: Out Burger at two in the morning in Hollywood. That's

24
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 2: a real story.

25
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,440
Speaker 1: That's quite a story. So when you go to in

26
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:28,600
Speaker 1: and Out, what do you order?

27
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,320
Speaker 2: So I don't. I'm I don't do what everybody does.

28
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 2: I like. I have a very specific thing. I like

29
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,240
Speaker 2: the I like a cheeseburger, but I don't if it's

30
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,720
Speaker 2: American cheese, I don't want it. So I was. I

31
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,400
Speaker 2: usually just say I want a cheeseburger, like just clean, simple,

32
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,840
Speaker 2: no toppings, like no ketchup, no mustard, no mayo, no,

33
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,960
Speaker 2: none of that. Just like I want to know on

34
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,200
Speaker 2: a fundamental level what the burger and the bread feel

35
00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,720
Speaker 2: about each other. That's the best way I feel I

36
00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,760
Speaker 2: can deduce whether it's worth going deeper in on an

37
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 2: ex laoratory level. And it was. So I just did

38
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 2: a plane burger. But because they were doing they had

39
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 2: cheddar as an option. I did it with cheddar, which

40
00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:10,399
Speaker 2: was just delicious.

41
00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,520
Speaker 1: Okay, the big thing in and Out is double double.

42
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,560
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, But you didn't do that.

43
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,360
Speaker 2: I didn't, I was. I was really just looking for

44
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 2: and this is I'm talking about first order. Ever that

45
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,840
Speaker 2: that was way after the breastfeeding incident. Was was much later.

46
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,520
Speaker 2: But what I did the first time I got there

47
00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,120
Speaker 2: was just the plain plain Jane with cheddar cheese. And

48
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,079
Speaker 2: then later, uh yeah, I tried the fries. I tried

49
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 2: the I did do this thing they say, if you

50
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,280
Speaker 2: take a bite of the what's the one that has

51
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,919
Speaker 2: the like the relish and the animal style? Animal style?

52
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 2: Thank you? So you do the animal style with a

53
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,080
Speaker 2: doctor pepper and a fry, and there's like this flavor

54
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,640
Speaker 2: that it creates in your mouth that apparently is very

55
00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,960
Speaker 2: similar to like butterscotch. It gives you like a weird

56
00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 2: you know after it's like a flavored you know, somalie

57
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 2: a type thing. Anyways, I tried that. It did not

58
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 2: taste like butter scotch in my mouth, but it was delicious.

59
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,280
Speaker 1: And if I snapped my fingers and you could have

60
00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,800
Speaker 1: any burger, what would that burger be?

61
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 2: Whoppers? Yeah, after all that, it's just because I grew

62
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,080
Speaker 2: up in a place where there was no fast food,

63
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,240
Speaker 2: so the closest one was a Burger King, and it

64
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,760
Speaker 2: was I mean, it's still an hour and a half

65
00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,680
Speaker 2: drive to the Burger King. But it's sad to me

66
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 2: to think that that's the reality of my life. But

67
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,360
Speaker 2: fast food is really rare for me. It's just something

68
00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 2: that comes. It comes with the territory. If I guess

69
00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,080
Speaker 2: touring all the time, but it doesn't change the fact

70
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,040
Speaker 2: that I like meat grown on a farm and fed

71
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 2: to me by the person who slaughtered the cow. So

72
00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 2: it's a little different where I come from and Vermont.

73
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,560
Speaker 1: Okay, you're from Waitsfield.

74
00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

75
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,680
Speaker 1: I went to college in Middlebury over the Hill No way.

76
00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my college roommate lives in Waitsfield.

77
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 2: Ah.

78
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 1: Do you know the Klars?

79
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,560
Speaker 2: I know the name. And when I was I served

80
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 2: at a restaurant and there was a Verklar table that

81
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:16,920
Speaker 2: they would have that they loved. It was like the

82
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,360
Speaker 2: quarter table that they always had whenever they came in.

83
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 2: But I don't think I ever served them myself. I

84
00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 2: just know of the Verklar table.

85
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,599
Speaker 1: Okay, So were your parents Did they grow up in Waysfield?

86
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,320
Speaker 2: My dad is from Connecticut, my mom is from New Jersey.

87
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 2: They had that baby boomer back to the land moment

88
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 2: in the seventies where they had gone to Saint Lawrence University,

89
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 2: and my dad graduated a little bit before my mom.

90
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 2: But he just didn't want to stop skiing, so he

91
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,040
Speaker 2: decided that he wanted to figure out a job, a

92
00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,359
Speaker 2: career path that would provide him the ability to ski

93
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,479
Speaker 2: forever and have a reason. So he became a sign

94
00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,000
Speaker 2: maker and he does all the signs or for instance,

95
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,880
Speaker 2: the American Ski Company, but also many other privately owned

96
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 2: mountains and ski areas. So that's that was his passion.

97
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,760
Speaker 2: He followed it, and my mom was an editor, a

98
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,440
Speaker 2: photographer and artists. It just lived lived the dream artist,

99
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,400
Speaker 2: you know, hippie life here in Vermont and and really

100
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,960
Speaker 2: brought a huge amount of the hippie glory that you

101
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,400
Speaker 2: would imagine like the hill people in Vermont had they

102
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 2: were living that that exact dream.

103
00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,159
Speaker 1: Okay, so are you a skier?

104
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 2: I was, but I have mixed feelings about skiing now.

105
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 2: I just think it's a really really expensive, silly pastime

106
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 2: and very dangerous. And everybody gets hurt all the time

107
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,000
Speaker 2: that I know, And so the more people that I

108
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 2: know that have gotten hurt or just can't play music

109
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,839
Speaker 2: because they broke their wrist or whatever, it is, like, Okay,

110
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 2: it's not worth it. So for purposes of like my

111
00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,400
Speaker 2: greater purpose in the world is music, I'm not gonna

112
00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,320
Speaker 2: I don't want to be that guy that has to

113
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,599
Speaker 2: tell the story about how I crashed skiing and that's

114
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 2: why I can't play guitar anymore. You know, it's not

115
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:07,040
Speaker 2: worth it.

116
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,839
Speaker 1: So one was the last time you got on the hill?

117
00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:15,559
Speaker 2: I was in Jackson, Wyoming after playing Downtown. It was, Yeah,

118
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,640
Speaker 2: it was twenty twenty nineteen. No, twenty twenty, it was

119
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. Yeah, well it's not that long ago. It

120
00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,280
Speaker 2: was because we were in Jackson and I had to

121
00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,680
Speaker 2: show that I knew what I was talking about because

122
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,840
Speaker 2: I was a competitive downhill ski racer and was raised

123
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,960
Speaker 2: on that in that culture, and I thought nothing of

124
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,880
Speaker 2: it until I went out into the world and saw

125
00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,279
Speaker 2: that not everybody gets to grow up like that. And

126
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 2: the second that I realized that my passion and my

127
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,520
Speaker 2: purpose was something else other than winning, Because the only

128
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,719
Speaker 2: reason I really wanted to be a GS skier was

129
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,240
Speaker 2: because the grand slalom suits are really tight and they

130
00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 2: reminded me of Ziggy star Dust and I'm not even

131
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 2: kidding that. I was like, if I get to dress

132
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,000
Speaker 2: like Zaggy start Us and go super fast down a mountain,

133
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,200
Speaker 2: then count me in. But beyond that, beyond the fancy

134
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 2: outfits and the going fast, I think I've managed to

135
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 2: figure out a career where I can do both of

136
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:15,000
Speaker 2: those things.

137
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,160
Speaker 1: Anyways, you know, okay, if your father was a sign painter,

138
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 1: it sounds like your mother was freelance. Doesn't sound like

139
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 1: there was a ton of money growing up. What was

140
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,280
Speaker 1: the economic status?

141
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 2: It was a legit problem. We did end up renting

142
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 2: our house out a few winters and that's where I

143
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,080
Speaker 2: ended up going to Albuquerque to visit my grandparents and

144
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,160
Speaker 2: they lived out there, and we did have to do

145
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 2: the like the cross Country Walk of Shame, you know,

146
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,480
Speaker 2: where my parents were limping along financially and needed to go,

147
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 2: you know, move back in with the parents, and we

148
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 2: homeschooled and had a really amazing cultural experience, which at

149
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,760
Speaker 2: the time I was too young to understand that there

150
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,360
Speaker 2: was financial reasons for that. I thought it was just

151
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 2: because we were going to go on a nice family

152
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,400
Speaker 2: road trip, but actually we genuinely needed to, you know,

153
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,760
Speaker 2: to step away from the expensive ski culture for a

154
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,440
Speaker 2: hot minute there. And I think it was good. It

155
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:13,200
Speaker 2: was character building.

156
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:14,800
Speaker 1: So how many kids in the family.

157
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,720
Speaker 2: There's three. I'm the middle child. I've got an older

158
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 2: sister and a younger brother.

159
00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,800
Speaker 1: And what's the difference in age two.

160
00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,640
Speaker 2: Years between us. It's like that perfect.

161
00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,200
Speaker 1: I have the exact same situation. I'm the middle child too.

162
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,240
Speaker 2: You are. And you know what, here's another interesting thing.

163
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,240
Speaker 2: I happened to have an honorary doctorate of the Arts

164
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:38,199
Speaker 2: from Middlebury Really, doctor Lefsetz, doctor Potter, nice to.

165
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,920
Speaker 1: See, PhD. How did you get How did you get that?

166
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,679
Speaker 2: I think they just wanted me to play the graduation

167
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,200
Speaker 2: and they couldn't figure out how to. They'd been doling

168
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 2: out honorary degrees to me. I got one from Champlain College.

169
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,360
Speaker 2: I got an honorary doctorate of the Arts at Champlain College,

170
00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,720
Speaker 2: an honorary graduate's degree at Saint Lawrence, where I had

171
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,680
Speaker 2: left to college. But you know, I think I just

172
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,760
Speaker 2: put it out there into the world. I manifested it

173
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,280
Speaker 2: into happening. I just said like, hey, listen, I'll play

174
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,840
Speaker 2: your graduation. Just give me a fake degree. I'll hang

175
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 2: them on the wall, and you got to call me

176
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 2: doctor from now on.

177
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,280
Speaker 1: Okay, So what are your older and younger siblings up to?

178
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,720
Speaker 2: So my sister is a glass blower and is now

179
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,040
Speaker 2: this is such a wild story, but in through the

180
00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,960
Speaker 2: world of glass she became the curator of a Doll

181
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,480
Speaker 2: Museum because they needed glass eyeballs to replace these like

182
00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:42,079
Speaker 2: Victorian dolls, and she was just helping them source the eyeballs,

183
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:48,559
Speaker 2: I believe. But ultimately, through some pretty wonderful just happenstance,

184
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 2: ended up in Virginia Beach at curating this museum. And

185
00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,160
Speaker 2: my brother Lee is he has epilepsy and nonverbal learning

186
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 2: disorder and also has gone through the mental health program

187
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,200
Speaker 2: here in Vermont in every capacity he's been through the Ringer,

188
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,719
Speaker 2: but has found that therapeutic expressive arts like poetry and

189
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,480
Speaker 2: drawing has been kind of the main resource in his life.

190
00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 2: Just like all of us artists that grew up in Potterville,

191
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 2: we all kind of got fed the potion at an

192
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,800
Speaker 2: early age. And it's it's super inspiring to be around

193
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,840
Speaker 2: him because the thing that I do that comes so

194
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,640
Speaker 2: naturally doesn't come naturally necessarily to him, but it heals

195
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,880
Speaker 2: him from the inside in such an amazing way. And

196
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,080
Speaker 2: I'm happy because I'm home and I get to actually

197
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,079
Speaker 2: see it because it's been kind of at a distance

198
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 2: for the last ten years. So we have our Hemingway

199
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,960
Speaker 2: and Fitzgerald moments on the porch where we smoke cigarettes

200
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,680
Speaker 2: and he reads me poetry, and it's been a new

201
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,439
Speaker 2: realm of connection with me and him. But my sister

202
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,680
Speaker 2: and I were always thick as thieves, you know, getting

203
00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 2: into all kinds of trouble in the early days.

204
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,479
Speaker 1: So your brother lives with your parents.

205
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,520
Speaker 2: Right now, he's living at home. Uh, he also has

206
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,559
Speaker 2: a community based care program. So we actually just finished

207
00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:15,679
Speaker 2: along delving into what the future holds for him, because ultimately,

208
00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,760
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna it's gonna land on me and

209
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,080
Speaker 2: my sister in a in a very real way pretty soon,

210
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 2: because it's just, you know, it's really challenging to have

211
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,199
Speaker 2: the mental health world and try to work with it

212
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,200
Speaker 2: and also have a crazy family like ours. Like we

213
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,040
Speaker 2: change our minds all the time. We're very spontaneous, lightning

214
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,360
Speaker 2: bolt type people. But when you're working with community based

215
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 2: care where these people need to like know where the

216
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 2: person is at all times and or have a driver

217
00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,280
Speaker 2: for him or take him to work, we are like, yeah,

218
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 2: but there's a bonfire over in the field and we're

219
00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,680
Speaker 2: gonna go jam. You should totally calmly and like, you know,

220
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,840
Speaker 2: it just it's impossible. We are impossible. We are very

221
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:56,719
Speaker 2: difficult people to work with.

222
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,520
Speaker 1: Okay, if you're you're the middle child who's yea tends

223
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,840
Speaker 1: to be overlooked. The hopes and dreams were in the

224
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,920
Speaker 1: first one. They feel a little pressure, more than a little,

225
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,600
Speaker 1: and there's all this attention on your brother. Where does

226
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 1: that leave you? Growing up?

227
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,200
Speaker 2: I was. You know, it's interesting where I grew up.

228
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,080
Speaker 2: Everybody calls me Trudy, and people who don't know me

229
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 2: I don't understand, or who think they know me don't

230
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,000
Speaker 2: get that. But apparently for the first four years of

231
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,480
Speaker 2: my life, I was almost completely mute, and I just

232
00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,880
Speaker 2: sat and sucked my thumb and sort of watched the world,

233
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:38,120
Speaker 2: and they called me Gertrude Stein. I guess I apparently

234
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,200
Speaker 2: just sat and sort of Whether it was judgmental critical

235
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:48,560
Speaker 2: thinking going on or just flatlining, I'm not exactly sure,

236
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 2: but whatever was happening in my brain developmentally, I think

237
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,199
Speaker 2: I felt it was safer to sort of be in

238
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 2: word with myself and just turn inward and hold on

239
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,959
Speaker 2: tight to my own self soothing, And yeah, I was

240
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,559
Speaker 2: a thumbsucker till I was like twelve. It got weird.

241
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,439
Speaker 1: Okay, you know you're in the mountains, although las you're

242
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 1: growing up, I mean I went. I lived in Vermont

243
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 1: in the dark ages. Not only was there no internet,

244
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,040
Speaker 1: there was no cable TV. There were no DVDs. Cable

245
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,920
Speaker 1: TV and DVDs came in certainly while you were growing up.

246
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,680
Speaker 1: But you were going to regular school, right.

247
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:34,600
Speaker 2: I did go to regular school. I also, I'm legally blind,

248
00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,719
Speaker 2: so I did. There was a learning resource program that

249
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 2: Vermont had where it subsidized people with visual impairment and

250
00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,000
Speaker 2: hearing impairment. So I ended up in that room a

251
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:49,440
Speaker 2: lot at face in elementary school. But I did, you know,

252
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:56,079
Speaker 2: pretty early on feel that pull toward culture. And oddly enough,

253
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,920
Speaker 2: in our tiny little town of Waitsfield in nineteen eighty six,

254
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 2: they opened a movie theater at the bottom of my hill.

255
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 2: I mean, what are the chances? And it wasn't just

256
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,000
Speaker 2: any movie theater. This guy had this opulent vision. I

257
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,200
Speaker 2: think he was sort of a Gordon Gecko mountain man

258
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,920
Speaker 2: guy who wanted to bring a little bit of New

259
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,680
Speaker 2: York City to Vermont. And he built this place and

260
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 2: he called it Edison Studios. And it looked like an

261
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,960
Speaker 2: Art Deco kind of Hollywood bowl looking place, A beautiful right, right,

262
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,840
Speaker 2: I fall down the hill and land there so that

263
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 2: was my first job. I also worked at the video store.

264
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 2: If there had been a record store in town, you know,

265
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 2: I would have worked there. But I grew up hoping

266
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,160
Speaker 2: that my parents would let me watch TV and movies

267
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 2: a little more than they did. But once it became

268
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,520
Speaker 2: my job, it was easier to convince them to let

269
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 2: me be absorbed in that world. A bit.

270
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,320
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit more about being legally blind.

271
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 2: So you can kind of see as we get in

272
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,000
Speaker 2: on that. I mean, this is not this is not

273
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,400
Speaker 2: helpful for listeners at home that can't see what Bob

274
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,680
Speaker 2: is looking at here. But I was born leely blind

275
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 2: and it's not degenerative. It's just the way that I see.

276
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,400
Speaker 2: And I kind of made a specific choice to not

277
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,160
Speaker 2: get corrective surgery. I did try wearing contact lenses for

278
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,800
Speaker 2: a while. I also spent a lot of time as

279
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,840
Speaker 2: a child taking my glasses off and making up new

280
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,480
Speaker 2: names for myself and just hoping that people wouldn't know

281
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 2: it was still me. So I think I played around

282
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,080
Speaker 2: with disguise because in my mind, I mean, I saw

283
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 2: something completely different when I took my glasses off, and

284
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,920
Speaker 2: the world was kind of bright and sparkly, and unfamiliar,

285
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,840
Speaker 2: like there was confetti falling, you know, in the color

286
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 2: of the general objects that I was seeing, but that

287
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 2: it wasn't It didn't matter what it was, as long

288
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,480
Speaker 2: as I knew there was something in front of me.

289
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,080
Speaker 2: So I've always had really good depth perception, but I

290
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:07,160
Speaker 2: just cannot cannot really sustain any level of focus on anything.

291
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:12,880
Speaker 2: I cannot read far away or close up words. I

292
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,640
Speaker 2: could probably tell you the color of somebody's eyes if

293
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 2: they got close enough to me, but I am far

294
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 2: sighted in a way that makes it extremely dangerous for

295
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:22,560
Speaker 2: me to drive without my glasses on.

296
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 1: But if you're wearing your glasses, how's your vision perfect?

297
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm able to see. I mean, the legal blindness

298
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,080
Speaker 2: is actually only in the state of Vermont because I

299
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 2: did my vision test in California when I lived out there,

300
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,800
Speaker 2: and I passed. Is that not creepy? Super creepy.

301
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm going to stay off the highway

302
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:41,840
Speaker 1: when you're there.

303
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

304
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,800
Speaker 1: So you mentioned Ziggy Stardust and you mentioned, you know,

305
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,800
Speaker 1: skiing one of the outfits. Ziggy Stardust came out in

306
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, So how did you get exposed did

307
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,160
Speaker 1: your parents play those albums? Had to learn that music.

308
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 2: My parents have a killer record collection because they had

309
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 2: a production company. Again with the skiing, trying to figure

310
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 2: out how to party in all the ski towns. They

311
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 2: started a company called dream On Productions, where they would

312
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 2: take photographs of the day's events, whether it was a

313
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 2: ski race or hockey or if they did the nineteen

314
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 2: eighty one Olympics and cruises and all kinds of crazy stuff,

315
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 2: and they would photograph everything that happened develop it that day.

316
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 2: My mom would make the soundtrack and splice it all

317
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,320
Speaker 2: together and do the edits while my dad was, you know,

318
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,640
Speaker 2: manically trying to get this thing done, and they would

319
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,680
Speaker 2: put it together into a slideshow and project it onto

320
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 2: the streets around these sporting events, almost like the precursor

321
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,879
Speaker 2: to MTV. They would play music along to it and

322
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,760
Speaker 2: create kind of a narrative of the day, and they

323
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 2: would pick sort of stars and local faces and characters

324
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 2: that they thought the townsfolk would enjoy and be like, oh,

325
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,399
Speaker 2: that's crazy Randy again, all the naked ski guy, you did,

326
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,080
Speaker 2: the polar Bear plunge, whatever it was. So they we

327
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,360
Speaker 2: created a culture around the bar, you know, the bar

328
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,680
Speaker 2: and the party and the after party life. The app

329
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 2: pray Ski and brought this kind of multimedia mixed media

330
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,160
Speaker 2: adventure to it. So their record collection, and of course

331
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 2: this is I don't really know whether they were paying.

332
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:17,879
Speaker 2: I don't think they were paying for any of the

333
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,960
Speaker 2: song usages. But there was a lot of really great

334
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 2: music that they were applying to these very specific visuals

335
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,679
Speaker 2: from an early time. I believe seventy They started that

336
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,439
Speaker 2: whole thing in about seventy two, and through from seventy

337
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 2: two to eighty four they were doing dreamount productions. So

338
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,439
Speaker 2: the record collection was thick. It was a sturdy and

339
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 2: interestingly organized and categorized record collection. And then of course

340
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 2: the kids were born and we kind of got our

341
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,879
Speaker 2: grubby myths on it and changed changed our worlds in

342
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 2: a good way. But I think it changed their record

343
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 2: collection in a pretty bad way.

344
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,520
Speaker 1: So what did you listen to everything?

345
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 2: I loved albums because the artwork was like a book.

346
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 2: It was similar size to like a kid's book. So

347
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,879
Speaker 2: for me, as a blind kid, a big piece of

348
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,919
Speaker 2: art in my hand felt amazing. And then there's this

349
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 2: thing inside it that makes music come out that's wild.

350
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 2: So Jethro Tull, the Band I Love Maggie Bell. I

351
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 2: loved the Beatles, but I didn't love them the way

352
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 2: everybody learns about the Beatles. I had a really roundabout

353
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 2: way of discovering them. It was on some weird compilation

354
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 2: that my mom had put together on a tape about

355
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 2: having kids, and it was all the songs that the

356
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 2: Beatles had written about children, but also a bunch of

357
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 2: other people and John Prine and you know, Bruce Coburn

358
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 2: lived in the lived and dated a woman in the

359
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 2: Madver Valley for a brief time. So there was a

360
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 2: lot of that, which I call dad rock. There's a

361
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,520
Speaker 2: lot of dad rock, Rod Stewart, Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits,

362
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 2: The Who. Loved Loved the Who because it felt like

363
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 2: it was very modern to me, and it sounded just

364
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 2: like any cool kid rock that I might hear on

365
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 2: the radio. Then I got really into like the Pointer

366
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 2: sisters and Patti LaBelle and Oh the Staples singers. I mean,

367
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 2: that's the record that changed my life. That song on

368
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 2: My Way to Heaven was the first. It was the

369
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 2: first time I heard music where I knew it wasn't

370
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 2: from where I was from and I needed to go

371
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 2: to where that music was being made because it just

372
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 2: cut me open wide and I was never the same again.

373
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: Okay, so you go to larry Town because your parents

374
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: went there.

375
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'm a sad tale of the American the

376
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 2: American system gone wrong. I'm one of those legacy kids

377
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 2: that got in because my parents went there, you know,

378
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,640
Speaker 2: because I had terrible grades and I didn't get into

379
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 2: any of the colleges I wanted to go to. I

380
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 2: really wanted to go to Wheaton College. I had a

381
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 2: vision of Wesley and didn't even bother for any Vermont

382
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 2: schools because I wanted to get out of town. I

383
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 2: did want to get out into the world. Randice. I

384
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 2: tried the Vanah School of Art and Design. I applied

385
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: to like thirteen schools, and the fact that I got

386
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,360
Speaker 2: into Saint Lawrence is a bit It's not too mythical, actually,

387
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 2: it's just it's just, you know, the appropriation of my parents'

388
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: you know, amazing illustrious careers and lives there. Not to

389
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 2: say that they were giving a huge amount of money,

390
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,640
Speaker 2: but I think they had big personalities and they were

391
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 2: remembered and loved and appreciated up up on campus, and

392
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 2: they had a great love story. My uncles and aunts

393
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 2: all went there, my cousins had gone there, So it

394
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 2: felt like the natural course of the salmon going back upstream.

395
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, let's go back at chapter. You're listening

396
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: to all this music. At what point do you start

397
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: to play and sing?

398
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 2: I must have been four. I mean, I've got pictures

399
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 2: of me at four, tinkering around on the piano with

400
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: this look on my face like I am, I'm gonna

401
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 2: master this thing. I don't remember when I started singing.

402
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: I was just always singing. It was always in me.

403
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 2: And it wasn't just that I was singing. I was harmonizing,

404
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: like right away to music that felt close to my heart.

405
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: It felt like I remembered it from being in my

406
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,919
Speaker 2: mom's belly almost. You know, there's like a familiarity with

407
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 2: music that never made me feel shy. I was never shy.

408
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 2: And then, of course, going through adolescence, I remember, like

409
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: the notebook, the first notebook full of songs, so probably eleven, twelve, thirteen,

410
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 2: somewhere in there where all those big feelings go, they

411
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 2: go into the notebook, and a lot of those notes

412
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: were actually songs. So it must have been really early

413
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 2: on that I was writing do You Take Piano Lessons?

414
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: My mom, among the many, the Jacqueline of all trades

415
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 2: that she is, was also a piano teacher. And so

416
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: I would get off the school of bus, and so

417
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 2: would eleven other kids, and we'd all walk up the

418
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: mile long driveway to our house on the hill, past

419
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: the Crazy Movie Theater and Alan Lumber and the Valley rental,

420
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: and everybody would eat my snacks, eat me out of

421
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: house and home they would. But I would listen to

422
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 2: the kids taking lessons and my mom patiently teaching them

423
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 2: how to read music and try for these more complicated pieces.

424
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 2: She was always encouraging people to try something a little

425
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: bit more complicated than what they think they can handle.

426
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: And then at the end of the day, I'd be like,

427
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: all right, I want to learn that song. So whatever

428
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: the song was that hit me the most, that felt

429
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: the most intriguing, But I never learned how to read music.

430
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 2: She just would sit with me and I'd watch her

431
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 2: fingers and I'd listen, and she just had an elegance

432
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 2: to her and the way that she played that I

433
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: never quite could conjure. I had to sort of create

434
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 2: my own style. So by ear, I would block out

435
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: the chords and try and recreate them as best I could.

436
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: Okay, let's jump all the way forward. Right now, you're

437
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: in Waitesfield.

438
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: I'm in Faston, which is the very school that I

439
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 2: went to elementary school. Yeah, there's no zip.

440
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: Code right face, which was Glenn Allen now sugar Burst.

441
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: North, exactly exactly.

442
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: But you lived into Panga for a.

443
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: While, right, yes, and I still do actually, so we

444
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: split time. I'm by Coastal. I'm polyamorous with my hometown.

445
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: I really can't let go of California. I just I

446
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 2: have this. It's what Mother Road is really about. I mean,

447
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: if we're really going to jump forward, that's what the

448
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: whole album is about, is this feeling of like, wait

449
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 2: a second, I'm really going to go home now, Like

450
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: after all this hard work, going to go home. That's

451
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: not it. That wasn't the plan. Not now anyways, And

452
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 2: to Panga is a place. I mean, it's where I

453
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: gave birth to my son, you know, I had him

454
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: at home in the bathtub and really set up a

455
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 2: life that I believed was my anchor point. It was

456
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 2: going to be the roots I planted for myself in

457
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: the same way that my parents were like, sorry Connecticut,

458
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: Sorry New Jersey, sorry parents, sorry American dream, We're going

459
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 2: to go back to the land and build our life.

460
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: I was. I was sort of in the midst of

461
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 2: that process when COVID hit, and I think fear crept in,

462
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 2: you know, and I've really was worried about my parents

463
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 2: and my brother. I wanted to be where the people

464
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 2: were that I loved the most, and I wanted to

465
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 2: just see them and hold them and know that, like

466
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 2: it wasn't a robot on the computer screen pretending to

467
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: be my mom and dad. I had to touch them

468
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 2: in the flesh. And you know, I'm sure we all

469
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: remember that that was a complicated thing to do in

470
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: the midst of lock down and post lockdown, the uh

471
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: you know, the two weeks of sitting alone wherever you

472
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 2: traveled and just you know, uh, the quarantining and went

473
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 2: through all of that, and it just felt like the

474
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 2: process of revisiting and being a part of my parents'

475
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: life and my childhood. It definitely triggered something very big

476
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: in me on a on a songwriting level, but also

477
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 2: on a personal level. It was just a something akin

478
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 2: to a slow car crash.

479
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, a slow car crash, and what were.

480
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 2: Crashing back into reality after living my like Joni Mitchell,

481
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 2: End of the Rainbow life out in California, which is

482
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: exactly where I pictured myself being for at least another

483
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 2: ten years. I was really just getting into my groove

484
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: of balancing motherhood and work and the flow of life

485
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: out there. Is there's an ease of my I'm not

486
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 2: sure what it is. It's just my demeanor. I've always

487
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 2: wanted to go somewhere where there's a city nearby and

488
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: an ocean nearby, but I always wanted to be sort

489
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: of causeted by the mountains and to Panga is that

490
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: I mean to Panga Canyon. I cannot over express just

491
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: exactly how much it is like the mad River Valley

492
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 2: where I grew up, with the exception of the ocean,

493
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 2: which is beautiful, you know, and I think being in

494
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 2: that world and experiencing that blissed out feeling that I got,

495
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: which I think you can hear on the album Daylight,

496
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: this feeling of just like this is my happily ever

497
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 2: after this is the end of the Rainbow, we're here.

498
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: I really did feel like there was like a rip

499
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 2: in my reality and a transition and a transformation in

500
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: my brain that forced me to get real and be

501
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: honest with myself and with my family, with the love

502
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: of my life and the kid that we made together,

503
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: and come to see why. There were things about coming

504
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: back to Vermont that just made a whole lot of sense.

505
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 2: But once I got here, it was it was a hard,

506
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 2: hard winter. It was a really uncomfortable thing for me

507
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: to come back here, and it was pulling up all

508
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 2: these old feelings where when I was visiting it was

509
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: just like, oh my god, just crazy blowing through town

510
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: and wow, my life is just on this rock and

511
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: roller coaster and here we go again. I love you all,

512
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 2: I'll see you later. And it was always on my terms,

513
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: you know, but coming back this time was a not

514
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: on my terms. It was, you know, based around this

515
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: circumstance of COVID. It was also based out of fear,

516
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: which I never liked. I don't like doing anything out

517
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: of fear. But I also felt like logic was starting

518
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: to take over, and I don't like logic. I'm not spuck,

519
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: I'm Kirk, you know. So it was hard for me

520
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: to wrap my head around the reality of being home.

521
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: But it was also amazing to reconnect and remember the

522
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: life that I had here before before all of the madness.

523
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, if COVID hadn't happened, would you have

524
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: gone back to Waydesfield eventually?

525
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't think we would have bought the farm

526
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: that we're in. I don't think that it would have

527
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: happened as soon. I always planned on coming back when

528
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: when my parents needed me, you know, and really being

529
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: there for them and being able to provide for them

530
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: and have the extremities of my life being tour buses

531
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 2: and crazy all nighters and TV in the morning and

532
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: flying from Japan and you know, borrowing borrowing Bob Weir's

533
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: plane to go fly from one place, you know, like

534
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: all these stories that you hear that are like the

535
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 2: crazy rock star life. I absolutely had that, and I

536
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: knew that that didn't That was not a sustainable way

537
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: to live. But I wanted to ease out of it.

538
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: And this was not easing out of it. This was

539
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: the opposite of that. And in buying a property and

540
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: making that sort of staking that claim, it definitely sealed

541
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: my fate in a way that I think I was

542
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: not at peace with and that's why I went on

543
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 2: all those road trips looking for where I really belong.

544
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: Okay, before we get to the road trips. So you

545
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: own property into paying and your own property.

546
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: In Wadesfield, that's right, yep.

547
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: And how do you decide where you are and when

548
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: you are? Oh?

549
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: God, such a good question, Bob. I don't know. You know,

550
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: there's a lot of it that has to do with

551
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: school and the kiddo, but it's also about what serves

552
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: the moment. And I'm also a bit of a migratory

553
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: beast myself. I'm really I think certain people really are

554
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: in that vagabond lifestyle, which chase the weather where it goes.

555
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: And so in the winter time we tend to go

556
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: back to California. So we've been up until recently and

557
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: this year being the exception because I'm going to be

558
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: on tour. We've been doing primary pieces of winter in California,

559
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: coming back in the spring and spending spring, summer and

560
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: fall in Vermont. Where's your husband from Palo Alto California?

561
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: So how does he like living in Vermont?

562
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: He loves it. It's so annoying, He's like, so, I mean,

563
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: he comes out. He wakes up at six in the

564
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: morning with those rosy cheeks having just been on like

565
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: a snowshoe, you know, and he's got his snow pants on,

566
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: and he doesn't mind having staticky hairs sticking up everywhere.

567
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: But like, the winter is a place. I think it's

568
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: like a wonderland for him. He's like a five year old,

569
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: you know, out in the snow, like catching snowflakes on

570
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: his tongue. I'm not actually kidding that that happened many

571
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 2: a time this last winter and watching him in joy

572
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: Vermont has also been one of those processes of falling

573
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: back in love with Vermont through the eyes of the

574
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: person that I love. And he's definitely been my cheerleader

575
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: and the biggest believer in in this process of moving

576
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 2: back and forth and bouncing back and forth between the

577
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: two places.

578
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so you have fires into Panga and you have

579
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: floods in wade Field.

580
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: I was just thinking about this. I think we can apply.

581
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: I think we are we can apply for FEMA in

582
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: both places, and I'm yeah, that's that's the scariest reality check.

583
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: I'm not going to because luckily both of our properties

584
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 2: have not been affected but we are actually qualified to

585
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: apply for FEMA in both places. And that's that's the

586
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: terrifying reality of where we are now. And I also

587
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: think that the move to Vermont was based a bit

588
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: on that, because we underwent a pretty traumatic fire, the

589
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: Woolsey Fire a few years back, where a huge amount

590
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 2: of our friend's houses were one day there were there,

591
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: next day they were just gone. And some of some

592
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: of those friends actually lived with us through some of that.

593
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:11,479
Speaker 2: So we evacuated to Panga with a group of people

594
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: and all of their dogs and goats and snakes and wolves,

595
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: because that's so to Panga.

596
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: Okay, Vermont is different now. You grew up, and maybe

597
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: during this transition you experienced it. But not only is

598
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 1: there internet everywhere, a cable television everywhere, there's fat acts everywhere.

599
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: On some level, you can live anywhere today. So how's

600
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: it different from when you grew up?

601
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: I'm noticing now that there is a culture and a

602
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: brand to Vermont that probably existed all along, but that

603
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: for me I wasn't aware of because I was in

604
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: the service industry, so I was I was on the

605
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: serving side of the table, you know, as a waitress,

606
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: as a house painter and a contractor and as somebody

607
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: who kind of saw my life moving in that direction.

608
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 2: If I hadn't become a musician, I could have I

609
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 2: could have done any number of odd jobs and been

610
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: a jacqueline of all trades myself. But I see it

611
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 2: differently now because I'm in a different I'm in a

612
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: different financial state than I was. I am now kind

613
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: of one of those hoity toity people that I used

614
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: to make fun of when I was a waitress, you know.

615
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 2: And that might be the weirdest offset for me about

616
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: coming back to Vermont is that there's a perception of

617
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 2: who I am, and I am a real Vermonter, and

618
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 2: I'm native and born and raised and you know, grew

619
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: up in the mud, you know, bail and hay at

620
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: a dairy farm and try in every every single corner

621
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: of the world. And having traveled to every single corner

622
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: of the world, I can tell you that that that

623
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: idyllic life that I had is still totally happening here.

624
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: I mean, there are really kids, my son age still

625
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: doing exactly that. And it does feel like that foothold

626
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: isn't going to go away anytime soon, because it's something

627
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: that is treasured. It's a lifestyle, and it's a an

628
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: ethos of hard work and humility and being aware of

629
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: your surroundings and being conscious of what you're bringing into

630
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: the world and feeling your way through your purpose with

631
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: a very practical outlook on life. And that to me

632
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: is fundamentally still a real thing. But who I am

633
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 2: in that setting is very different. And I mean something

634
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: as simple as the fact that I still have my

635
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: LA phone number and when I call places, they won't

636
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 2: pick up unless it's an eight to two number. So

637
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 2: I'm like the stranger, danger rich lady with an LA

638
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: phone number calling in asking about concrete molds and can

639
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: I get you know, this tint for my concrete floor

640
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: polish for my barn that we're refurbishing. You know, it

641
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 2: just sounds like I want to punch me in the face.

642
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: You know.

643
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 2: That's the me that has a bit of the old

644
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: you know, just hard work in salt of the earth

645
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: girl that just doesn't want to hear it from some

646
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: pony lady. But now I am the pony lady.

647
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: Okay, So how has it worked out financially? Because one

648
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 1: might say you're rich now, I mean everything's relative today.

649
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 1: You have billionaires, you have people who are homeless. So

650
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: the music business has changed. It used to be more

651
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 1: of a threshold either you made or you didn't make it. Yeah,

652
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: so how's it working for you?

653
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 2: It worked out because, and for me, what I think

654
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: of as worked out is I don't have to I'm

655
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: not going paycheck to paycheck anymore. And I was able to.

656
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: I'm able to own, you know, a house. I bought

657
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 2: a house before I was married to Eric. I was

658
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: able to buy a house. And for myself, I'll fund

659
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: the prospects of my dreams and the things that I wanted.

660
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 2: I was able to sort of nurture into being, maybe

661
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: not by having an endless well of money available to me,

662
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: but more by the trust and the I think the

663
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: constitution of who I was becoming, and the potential within

664
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: my musical career and the hard work that I had shown,

665
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 2: and the enduring kind of like I'm not going anywhere people.

666
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm not going anywhere.

667
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: That feeling was a pretty leveling force for me financially.

668
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: I also have a great business manager who's always made

669
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: sure that that I'm not overdrafting, overdrawing, overdrafting. That's the

670
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: way it could be both either way. I don't do

671
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 2: that anymore. I used to do it all the time,

672
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: and paycheck to paycheck has has moved into a place

673
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: of much more security. But it was, you know, it

674
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: was stretching it very thin to buy this farm and

675
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: to make it all come together. It's one hundred and

676
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: twenty acre farm, and that's a lot of land. And

677
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: there's a lot of other costs that you have to

678
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: consider when you're buying a farm, one of which is

679
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: also just the social responsibility of it. You know, do

680
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: you want to be a gentleman farmer general lady farmer

681
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: and have nothing happened here? Or do we want to

682
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: have an ecosystem that we're reintroducing with dairy cows or

683
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: goats or you know, hops or weed or whatever it

684
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: could be. And every single one of those endeavors comes

685
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 2: with a cost, and so there's a reality check to it.

686
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 2: But then there's a paycheck when I play my gigs,

687
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 2: and so I think I've subsidized as best I could

688
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 2: the passion projects that I've had with the reality that

689
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 2: I think music really is if I put the work

690
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: in and if I pound in the pavement, and I'm

691
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 2: out there on tour in a sustainable way with keeping

692
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: my overheads as low as I can, I can do

693
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: pretty well every year, you know, so.

694
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: Tell me about these drives cross country.

695
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 2: So again, everything that a Vermantra does has to be practical,

696
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 2: and the practicality of me starting this whole endeavor was

697
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: that during COVID you couldn't rent a car. I mean,

698
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you experienced that, but for anybody

699
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: who was trying to rent a vehicle at a certain

700
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 2: point in the summer of I think twenty twenty one,

701
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 2: you could like make a reservation and pay a bunch

702
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 2: of money for that reservation, and then you'd get to

703
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 2: the front counter and they'd just be like, yeah, yeah,

704
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 2: I know, thanks for your money, but we're out of cars.

705
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 2: Don't know what to tell you. So after that happened

706
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: literally four times in a row, I started to kind

707
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 2: of panic because I do feel like I need a

708
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: fire escape for my life and for the feelings of

709
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: being trapped and the feelings of sort of strangulation, including

710
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 2: the financial stuff. Was starting to come into a place

711
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: of like, I don't want to have to pay for

712
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 2: a rental car. We have a perfectly good, brand new

713
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 2: car that we bought at twenty twenty Volkswagen Atlas, sitting

714
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 2: there in California, just waiting, just toasting in the sun.

715
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 2: So I got on a plane and masked up and

716
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 2: you know, armed myself with some notepads and went out

717
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: and picked up the car and drove it back. That

718
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 2: was the first trip.

719
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: Okay, A couple of questions, Yes, have you gotten COVID,

720
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: and if so, how many times?

721
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 2: Yes? I have two times, And the first one was

722
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 2: like a yep, this is definitely one million, one hundred

723
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: thousand percent COVID. Oh my god, that that, Oh my god,

724
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 2: sandbag in the head COVID. And I was in Texas

725
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: playing a private gig, which was a bummer because my

726
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 2: kid was with me. I had him. I just happened

727
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 2: to be like, let's do a mother's son adventure because

728
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: I was excited to drive with him and take him

729
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: on a little mother road trip. Oh boy, did it

730
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 2: go a whole ski whiffy, whole kind of ski whiffy.

731
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 2: And then the second time, I actually didn't know that

732
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 2: I had it, except that when I patted my head,

733
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 2: my scalp hurt in the exact same way that I

734
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 2: remembered it hurting when I had COVID the first time.

735
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: That like pain to the touch, almost like you can't

736
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: bear to have the weight of your hair touching your

737
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: head kind of feeling.

738
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: And any long term effects.

739
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: I'm so lucky to say that I have not had

740
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: any long term effects. I know so many people who

741
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: have and it's just devastating. So for me, I think

742
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 2: the fear was that my voice or my hearing, because

743
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 2: a lot of people, I think the hearing was one

744
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 2: of the big scary things that happened to two of

745
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 2: my musician friends who just can't actually function as musicians

746
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 2: the way that they did before because they've lost their hearing.

747
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: How old is your son.

748
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: He's five and a half going on six in January,

749
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: and he was actually here helping me sound check. He

750
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 2: put the microphone right here for me today. So he's

751
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 2: taking after his papa and getting into getting into sound engineering.

752
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: Okay, so you fly out to California to get the car.

753
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: Who's taking care of your son?

754
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 2: That would be my husband, Eric Valentine, that fine young

755
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 2: man himself.

756
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: So he's good alone with the kid.

757
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean that was the agreement from the

758
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: beginning when we had Sagan, it was you're going to

759
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: be mister mom. He declared to the world he was

760
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 2: going to retire from record producing, which I knew wasn't true.

761
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody knew wasn't true, but at least I

762
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: hoped it wasn't true. But he really he's lived a

763
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: life of not needing to prove himself. I think because

764
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 2: he had such success at such a young age, I

765
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 2: think he really was ready to pump the brakes and

766
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 2: just be at home and be the dad that was

767
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 2: always there for his kid. And I think it really

768
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: does show through and shine through in Sagan and his personality,

769
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: because you know, we have a different dynamic than a

770
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: lot of families and homes American or otherwise. Yet that

771
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 2: I am out there on the road continuing my work

772
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 2: and finding ways through that battle between the sort of

773
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 2: mom shame and missing my family, but also knowing that

774
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: there is something worth chasing there that actually will It

775
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: is not an impermeable membrane of inspiration. It is something

776
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,439
Speaker 2: that is ready to be harvested, and then I can

777
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: bring that harvest back to my family and be a

778
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: happier person for it.

779
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: So how'd you meet Eric?

780
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 2: We were making a record together. I was my record

781
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 2: company back in the day when I was at Hollywood Records.

782
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 2: Disney Music Group had been trying to get me collaborating

783
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 2: with this producer forever. But you know, when I heard

784
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: about his records and his track record of like Well

785
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: smash Mouth and Third Eye Blind and and you know,

786
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: Queens of the Stone Age, and I listened to those records.

787
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 2: I loved Queens. I loved Nickel Creek's record that he did.

788
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 2: But I was specifically aware of a type of music

789
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 2: that I knew growing up in Vermont as malrock because

790
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: it was only ever played in the malls in the

791
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: movies with malls in them, because there are no malls

792
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 2: in Vermont, so there's one. It's a very sad story. Anyways,

793
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 2: there's probably nothing less attractive to me than being told

794
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: what producer I should work with, and I hate it.

795
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: I really don't like it. So of course I avoided

796
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 2: Eric and meeting with Eric for a long time, but

797
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: he just kept coming up over and over again for

798
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 2: ten years. His name would come up, and finally we

799
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: met and it was like instant I didn't know it

800
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: was love. I actually just was like, what took me

801
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 2: so long? I'm gonna make music babies with this guy forever.

802
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 2: In fact, I use that exact sentence with my bandmates

803
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 2: after meeting with him, I said, music babies forever. This

804
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 2: is a lifer, this guy is. He's just he ticks

805
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: all the boxes of nerdiness and caring about audio in

806
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: a way that makes it fun for someone like me,

807
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 2: who who kind of I defy anyone to keep me

808
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: in a recording studio for any more minutes than I

809
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,479
Speaker 2: absolutely have to be there. It makes my skin crawl.

810
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: If it's like brain surgery, I have completely changed my

811
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: tune because there's this person who is this well spring

812
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 2: of knowledge, and not just knowledge, but the way he

813
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 2: untethers himself from his ego when explaining it and describing

814
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 2: what he's doing. And never in a condescending way did

815
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: he ever share an opinion. It was always with this

816
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: thread of what can make this better? What are the

817
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: opportunities we've missed? This curiosity within him that just felt

818
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: like the thing that was missing in my music, you know,

819
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: all long, because I feel like that old soul in me,

820
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 2: that precocious songwriter. As a young person coming up in

821
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: the music industry, I always kind of had this like

822
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 2: old hat approach of like it's got to be old school,

823
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 2: it's got to be this, it's got to be that.

824
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 2: I know what's best, I know what music is tasteful.

825
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,479
Speaker 2: I know what tasteful is. I had made all these

826
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: rules and I finally get to be in a studio

827
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 2: with somebody who made it fun to play by the

828
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: rules and also even more delicious when you break them.

829
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: So you met them? How long and how did it

830
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: become a romance?

831
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 2: So after the record Midnight was finished, I think a

832
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: lot of people experience this when they're in like a

833
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 2: deep intense production schedule with big deadline. Is that it's

834
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 2: like a being in a production of any kind of

835
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 2: film production or summer camp or whatever. There's all that

836
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 2: like days and days and days and weeks and months,

837
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: and that ultimately a year making Midnight because the turnals

838
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: were sort of coming unglued at the time as well.

839
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:10,439
Speaker 2: The album was finished, mixed, mastered, and I was working

840
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 2: on the album packaging, and I just felt this emptiness

841
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 2: in my heart that was like throbbing, longing drive by

842
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: the exit for the studio and just feel my whole

843
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: body want to jump out of the car and go

844
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 2: down off the exit ramp. And I didn't understand what

845
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: that was for for a few months after the production

846
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 2: of it was done, and it was when I got

847
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 2: I got tapped to do the theme song for Grace

848
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 2: and Frankie. You know that show of course. Yeah, so

849
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: that show and its creator had a budget and an

850
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 2: idea for what they wanted to do, and they just

851
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 2: they had figured like, it's Grace Potter's voice. We just

852
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 2: we know it's this song, this Steeler's Wheel song and

853
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 2: Grace Potter, and I was like, this is perfect. Oh

854
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: my god, I get to go back to the studio

855
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 2: and lo and behold, the studio wasn't available so yet

856
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: again just just like, oh, I don't have a reason

857
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 2: to be there anymore, and I kept finding myself making

858
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 2: up reasons to want to go back into the studio,

859
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: and it was obviously to see Eric and just be

860
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: around that energy. But ultimately we recorded right down the

861
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: road from it, and because I was the producer, I

862
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 2: knew where I wanted to have it mixed. If I

863
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 2: couldn't record it at Barefoot, we recorded at Vox Studios

864
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 2: in Larchmont and then ultimately went back to Barefoot to

865
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: mix it and do a few overdubs. So I got

866
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 2: to go back in the studio and that's where it

867
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 2: started to click in for me, and this is yeah,

868
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: this is May June twenty fifteen. Realizing like, okay.

869
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: Okay, you had been married before. Two questions. One had

870
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: Eric been married before? And two was there any reluctance

871
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: to get into another marriage since you'd had a previous marriage? Oh?

872
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean there was not just reluctance. It was

873
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: a it was a nasty overlap, that was a that

874
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 2: was some real deal, like what are we going to

875
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: do about these feelings we're having because he'd been with

876
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 2: he was not married to his former partner, but he'd

877
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 2: been with her for for many years as well as

878
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 2: me and Matt. And Matt was you know, in my

879
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 2: band still and was not going to leave or take

880
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 2: a back seat any any day. I mean, even with

881
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: the Nocturnals uh dissolving. He was he was really supportive

882
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 2: of my choice to to dissolve the Nocturnals and was

883
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: ultimately like, whatever you're doing, I'm sticking on the tour.

884
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: You know you're not going to play radio City Music

885
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: Hall without me, girl. It was. It was definitely a

886
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 2: really difficult time and a really uncomfortable set of reluctant

887
00:49:55,320 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 2: people on all sides, and it got kind of interests.

888
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 2: Actually it was pretty scary and violent, like I had

889
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 2: to get a restraining order and don't get into the

890
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 2: details of it. But I'm fine and they're fine. Everybody's fine.

891
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 2: But we weren't fine. It could have been really bad.

892
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 2: It could people could have died. Love love does crazy

893
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 2: things to people, and it was by far the most

894
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: dramatic experience of my life, and one in which if

895
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 2: I if I had any minuscule doubt about who and

896
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 2: what was going on and who I loved and what

897
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: exactly love felt like, I would have run away and

898
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 2: never looked back. But it was too late. I was

899
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: so in love and there was absolutely nothing I could do.

900
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 2: So sharing that feeling with Eric was also really confusing

901
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 2: for him. In fact, I think he said something like,

902
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 2: this is really confusing. You should go and escorted me

903
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: out of the studio when I first told him what

904
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 2: I was feeling. And it was because you know, these

905
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: these relationships that we were in that had been long unraveling,

906
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 2: where also the thing that defined us. They were the

907
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,240
Speaker 2: stories we had been telling ourselves for a very long time.

908
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: And it's always extremely uncomfortable to tear yourself out of

909
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 2: one reality and imagine a new reality until it's happening

910
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: to you.

911
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the road trip. So you're

912
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: going to go to Topenga to pick up your brand

913
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: new Volkswagon.

914
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 2: Okay, fancy doesn't it.

915
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: You're going to go to the airport. You're going to

916
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: pick up the car. What was your plan after you

917
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: turned the key and the ignition or push the button?

918
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:54,439
Speaker 2: I had met a guy on the Santa Monica peer

919
00:51:54,880 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 2: who runs the kiosk that says Santa Monica Pier end

920
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 2: of the trail Route sixty six. And actually, even though

921
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,280
Speaker 2: I'd seen the movie Forrest Gump, I did not actually

922
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 2: register that that's where Forrest Gump was running when he

923
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,959
Speaker 2: was doing his like back and forth running road trip.

924
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 2: But it really was that it was this like movie moment,

925
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: this aha, because I wasn't sure what I was going

926
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 2: to do, and I love There's a taco place down

927
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 2: there that I love, so I wanted to get one

928
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 2: more taco in California on my way out of town.

929
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: Where do you go for a taco?

930
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 2: Oh, the taco place in town. It's just a taco truck,

931
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 2: that's right, I like parked on the side of it. I

932
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 2: don't even know what the name of it is. It's

933
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 2: just this guy, Hernando. His name is Hernando. He makes

934
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 2: the best tacos ever. He puts habenaro on everything, and

935
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 2: he puts a pink thing on every taco. But it's

936
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 2: not Pink's tacos. It's a different place. He likes to

937
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 2: do like pickled pink everything. It's fucking perfect anyways. So

938
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 2: I wanted one of those, and I wandered down the

939
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: pier just to catch the sunset and be a romantic

940
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 2: fool feeling all that big, confused, welling up feelings of

941
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 2: I don't want to leave California. I don't really know

942
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 2: why I'm driving east now, you know, back to a

943
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 2: place that was creating some conflicting sensations in my soul.

944
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: So I was there and that's where I picked up

945
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 2: this guide. It was easy sixty six. It was a

946
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 2: ringbinder book that was done and edited and re edited,

947
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: and many many renditions of this book exist out in

948
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: the world, but I think his name is Jim McLoughlin,

949
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 2: and he's sort of a proper connoisseur of the road

950
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 2: to flight, the mother roads. So I took that book

951
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 2: with me, and armed with that book, I laid out

952
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 2: a course of action, starting in Panoramic City at the

953
00:53:56,040 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 2: super racist inappropriately titled and inappropriately branded Wigwa Hotel and Motel.

954
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 2: I just I had to see it for myself to

955
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 2: understand what the hell anyone was thinking. And I kind

956
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 2: of got it. It's like being in It's like being

957
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: in the Yogi Bear Jellystone Park cartoon. It's bizarre. But

958
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 2: I stayed there the first night and then just rode

959
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 2: the trail all the way. I highlighted all the pages

960
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: of sort of the maybe I'll go here, maybe I'll

961
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 2: go there, lots of little side roots and notes about

962
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 2: like don't go this way. The bridge is washed out,

963
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 2: there is no road there where there used to be

964
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 2: a road. I just so sexy to me. That is

965
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: like the beckoning, yes, get me down that road with

966
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 2: the bridge that's broken. I want that, and I did.

967
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 2: I went and found it.

968
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: Okay, So how long did it on that initial trip

969
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: how long did it take you to go from California

970
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: to Vermont?

971
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 2: It was only like a week. It wasn't that crazy.

972
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 2: I took my time out. I was obviously kind of

973
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 2: dragging my heels to get east. So it was four

974
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 2: days in Uh, it was to two nights in California,

975
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: two nights in Arizona, one night in New Mexico, and

976
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 2: then a straight shot to Saint Louis. So no, yeah,

977
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 2: I'm wrong. Not two nights in California, one night in California,

978
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 2: two nights in Arizona, one night in New Mexico. Uh,

979
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 2: Inducum Carrie, which was one of my favorites.

980
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 1: To Carrie.

981
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've driven every kind of rig that's up a

982
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 2: bit anyways, So yeah, Will and Yeah. Those songs though

983
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 2: as well, like Winslow Arizona, you know, I mean, take

984
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 2: it easy, all these songs. There was a trail of

985
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 2: music that goes along with the trail you know itself.

986
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 2: And I thought, instead of trying to write any songs,

987
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 2: I was just gonna listen to not just music, but

988
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 2: like nothing listen to. I did listen to some John

989
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 2: Steinbeck audio books, Travels with Charlie and Grapes of wrath obviously,

990
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 2: but I also I really just needed some quiet too.

991
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 2: And I love the sound of the wind. And one

992
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 2: of the things that that Atlas does it has this

993
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 2: lovely moon roof that opens into this sort of amazing

994
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: gauge where you can control how much wind do you

995
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 2: want to hear, how much sunlight you want to have

996
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 2: come in, you can have the shade going with the wind.

997
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 2: Guests just very cool. It's a cool sound. So so yeah,

998
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,959
Speaker 2: that road trip was just maybe a little over a week.

999
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: Do you like to drive?

1000
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 2: Oh, I love to drive. I think I was a

1001
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 2: trucker in another life for sure, or a race car driver.

1002
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 2: I think probably a race car. I did have a bell.

1003
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 2: I hung a cow bell off of my rearview mirror

1004
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 2: that would ring when I would like you could tell

1005
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 2: because the car would start to vibrate in this certain

1006
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 2: way when I hit like one hundred and ten mile

1007
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 2: an hour and it would be like, okay, bitch, you

1008
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 2: better slow down now. So I had my okay, bitch

1009
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 2: cow bell go off way too many times, way too

1010
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 2: many times.

1011
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: So you land back in Vermont, then what's going through

1012
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: your mind?

1013
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 2: I wanted to write a song about the journey I

1014
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 2: wanted to tell a story more than write a song, though,

1015
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 2: and I think that's really what started. The more enticing

1016
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 2: piece of the album became what's the story, not what

1017
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 2: is this album I'm making? It felt kind of high

1018
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 2: time to make a record, but not like urgent. It

1019
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 2: was sort of like, Okay, I'll get to it. You know,

1020
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 2: there's a pandemic on and everybody's gonna have their stupid

1021
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 2: pandemic record likes. Let's wait for a few of them

1022
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: to come out and then I'll do my thing. And

1023
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 2: you know, I wrote, Yeah, I wasn't writing songs as

1024
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 2: much as I was writing a story about regret and

1025
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: redemption and trying to wrap my head around the choices

1026
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: I had made and whether any of it was, whether

1027
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 2: I was ever going to be able to square it

1028
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 2: all with the person I thought I would be and

1029
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 2: the person that I was seeing in the mirror every day.

1030
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: You know, tell me a little bit more about that.

1031
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: The regret and the dichotomy between those.

1032
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 2: Two, well, I think it's mostly to do with the

1033
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 2: choices that you don't know you're making, so choices like

1034
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:37,439
Speaker 2: being a musician as opposed to being a filmmaker or

1035
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 2: a theater mom or a figure skater, or maybe I

1036
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 2: should have stuck to downhill skiing, you know, like really

1037
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 2: fundamental questions about place and belonging and understanding identity also,

1038
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we all kind of got stewed

1039
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 2: up into that identity politics conversation and the doom scrolling

1040
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 2: of I was in. I was in lockdown with a

1041
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 2: couple of gen Z younger younger gen Z people who

1042
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 2: had a very specific propensity toward doom scrolling and deeply

1043
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: political conversations. So I was having a lot of big

1044
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 2: thoughts and big more big questions than conclusions than I've

1045
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 2: ever had before. I think a proper midlife crisis was underfoot,

1046
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 2: and I didn't really know that obviously, but like you know,

1047
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 2: a man will go out and buy a top down

1048
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 2: sexy car or motorcycle, and for me, it was like,

1049
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 2: go get that mom car and open up the moon roof.

1050
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 2: That's all I need, you know. But the transformation and

1051
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 2: the storytelling that can come with transformation needed to be

1052
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 2: outside of my body because my body was also pretty

1053
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: shut down at that point. I had a miscarriage and

1054
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 2: it was really serious. It was it was life threatening

1055
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 2: situation where I hadn't miscarried completely, I guess, and it

1056
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 2: had continued to grow. And there was sort of a

1057
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 2: collection of internal bleeding over the course of a really

1058
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 2: long and dangerous amount of time that I didn't know

1059
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 2: why I was in so much pain, but it was

1060
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 2: just getting worse and worse. And so those hormonal things

1061
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 2: are going on, and things that I just couldn't quantify

1062
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 2: where and how my soul and my purpose and all

1063
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 2: of these things that were happening that felt like they

1064
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: were happening to me, sort of that victim feeling that

1065
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 2: I had never had before where that was coming from.

1066
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 2: So I needed to get out of my own story

1067
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 2: and start telling a story, any story, anything, And I

1068
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 2: took a visit back to my childhood self, like my

1069
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 2: bravest version of me at the age of nine, and

1070
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 2: decided to start there where I had run away from

1071
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 2: home and this is real life now. I ran away

1072
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 2: from home when I was nine to my neighbor's house,

1073
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 2: Caitlin Welter, and her parents answered the door, and of

1074
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 2: course I took off my glasses, you know, and said, Hi,

1075
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 2: my name is Lelana Mata Vesquez and I'm from Ecuador.

1076
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 2: I'm an orphan and the orphanage next door. They're very

1077
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 2: mean there. I hate it. Can you please let me

1078
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 2: stay with you? And can I please have a pop tart?

1079
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 2: And they played along with me? And what was really

1080
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 2: interesting about it was I think I lost track of

1081
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: if I was lying, or if I was using my imagination,

1082
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 2: if I was creating something like a new life for myself,

1083
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 2: or if I was dooming myself to a new life

1084
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 2: with a new name and a very sad backstory. But

1085
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: it didn't matter. It was too late. I had already

1086
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 2: made this choice, and it kind of became the seed

1087
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 2: pod for understanding my own redemption and my own choices

1088
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: and how much I didn't actually choose. I was lying,

1089
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 2: but I wasn't lying. I was nine. I didn't even

1090
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 2: know what lying was. I just kind of wanted to

1091
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 2: be out of myself and into a story. And that

1092
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 2: deep dive at the age of nine led me to

1093
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 2: invent this character, Lady Vagabond, who was sort of my

1094
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 2: superhero chaperone, where I already had a plan where if

1095
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 2: anybody asked me why I was alone on the side

1096
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 2: of the road, I'd say, oh, I'm not. Lady Vagabond

1097
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 2: is making a fire right there in the woods. I'm

1098
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 2: just waiting here by the side of the road because

1099
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 2: we have a man bringing us water soon, so I'm

1100
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 2: going to pick up the water and then bring it

1101
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 2: back down to our camp. You know, I had like

1102
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 2: I never had to use the excuse, of course, but

1103
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 2: I had this vision of who I could be as

1104
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 2: a strong, independent nine year old kid out on the

1105
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 2: road in a bathing suit and Red Sockny's in March.

1106
01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 2: So long story short, I revisited that story and all

1107
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 2: the characters I had sort of created and imagined myself

1108
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 2: meeting in some kind of a Nancy Drew novel version

1109
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 2: of my life. And that's where the songs started coming from.

1110
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: Okay, so do you work on inspiration? Do you write

1111
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: the lyrics before the music? Do you say, okay, I

1112
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: write from ten to one. How do you do it?

1113
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 2: Oh? God, I wish I had that. Nick Cave has

1114
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 2: that kind of order in his I believe he actually

1115
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 2: goes like with a briefcase to a cubicle. I'm so

1116
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 2: jealous of that work ethic. I wait and wait and

1117
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 2: procrastinate and watch a movie and make a dinner and

1118
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 2: paint a wall and then paint a house and then redecorate,

1119
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 2: and then redecorate again, and then have a baby, and

1120
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 2: then do some laundry, and then pick out clothes for

1121
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 2: the baby haven't had yet, And then I start writing

1122
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 2: the song that's been screaming at me in my ear

1123
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 2: the whole time. That's nice, Okay.

1124
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: So when you ultimately do sit down decide it, is

1125
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: it as easy process or is it like eking it out?

1126
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 2: No, it's easy. It's really easy. In fact, this was

1127
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 2: the easiest one yet because I had made a lot

1128
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 2: of room and space in my life for writing. And

1129
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 2: I can't say I've allowed myself that luxury ever before.

1130
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 2: But I mean, we did move to Vermont to build

1131
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 2: a barn and create this, you know, fortress of you know,

1132
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 2: profound creativity. But it wasn't done being built yet. So

1133
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 2: we carved out some time while Eric was doing pre

1134
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:48,439
Speaker 2: production with Nickel Creek for their record that they put

1135
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 2: out this past March, and they were going to be

1136
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 2: doing pre production, so I figured I'll do some pre

1137
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 2: production too. I'll go down to Nashville, check in with

1138
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 2: my songwriter buddies and and and just sit in a room.

1139
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: I'll rent a place with a so my only sort

1140
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 2: of caveat in my searching for a house was that

1141
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 2: it had to have a piano, and it doesn't matter

1142
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 2: if it was tuned. I could get somebody to fix

1143
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 2: it up and make it sound good, or tune it myself.

1144
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 2: So I sat down and it just fucking fell out,

1145
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 2: all of it, and it was fast, like ten days

1146
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 2: of writing. Some of it was collaborative. I had some

1147
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 2: really really wonderful and luscious reconnections with people who I'd

1148
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 2: written with, like Hillary Lindsay, who'd had co writing sessions

1149
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 2: with a decade or more before, which had never amounted

1150
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 2: to any recordings, and so it was amazing to tap

1151
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 2: back into her her valve and the way she opens

1152
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 2: her valve up. But she also had this brilliant idea

1153
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 2: to bring in a young young woman, Meg McCree, and

1154
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 2: that was really interesting because it sort of spanned you know,

1155
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 2: Meg is in her twenties, I'm in my thirties. Hillary

1156
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 2: is at her forties, and it felt like it was

1157
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 2: some kind of a time and dimension hopping space to

1158
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 2: be in. So two of the songs that we wrote

1159
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 2: together are on Mother Road, Rose Colored Rear View, and

1160
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 2: All My Ghosts. But also the mut I didn't need

1161
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 2: to co write. I just kind of wanted to. I

1162
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 2: wanted to. I had a lot there, like there was

1163
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 2: a propensity to overshare and talk and ask questions and

1164
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 2: listen and hear their ideas and then cross hatch things together.

1165
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 2: But I had already kind of formed the vision of

1166
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 2: the Memory Castle and Lola, you know, this little girl

1167
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 2: from the dust Bowl that I claimed to be and

1168
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 2: what her life pans out to be. And that album

1169
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 2: was already cooking in the furnace of my soul. So

1170
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: anybody that was writing with me kind of either had

1171
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 2: to jump on that bandwagon or just those songs that

1172
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 2: we wrote we're going to have to be put to

1173
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 2: the side for now. So yeah, I think I had

1174
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 2: twenty songs in ten days. It was so fast and

1175
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 2: so furious. And then we had eight days in the

1176
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 2: studio at Dave Cobb's place studio. A.

1177
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's hold for the second. Yeah, you only

1178
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: made one road trip or you made multiple road trips.

1179
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: I made four roadwall tell me about the other three.

1180
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the retrieval of the car was one. The

1181
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 2: adventures that I took beyond that were usually again, it

1182
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 2: felt like I needed a purpose, someone to visit, somebody

1183
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,920
Speaker 2: who's sick. Oh, my friend's having a baby. My friend

1184
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 2: lost her baby. You know. I had just had this miscarriage.

1185
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 2: So I was doing a lot of outreach to the

1186
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 2: women in my life that I cared about, but also

1187
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 2: to people who I just felt like I had had

1188
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:52,959
Speaker 2: not had a chance to connect with in a long time.

1189
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 2: So there was two more solo trips across the country,

1190
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 2: one all the way back with myself and our trailer

1191
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 2: which was empty and was there to be packed up

1192
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 2: and loaded and moved. So we were gonna move essentially

1193
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 2: all of Eric's studio gear to Vermont, as well as

1194
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 2: a few of our sort of key pieces of furniture

1195
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 2: and all of Sagan's like his baby.

1196
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 1: You drove across country with a trailer.

1197
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I am a trucker at heart. Okay, I'm

1198
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 2: not scared of shit, man, I am really like I

1199
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 2: love I love the road, I love grease and the wheels,

1200
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 2: and I love checking on the I mean the tire

1201
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 2: pressure turned into a thing, which was interesting because it's

1202
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 2: different than a tour bus or even a transport van

1203
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 2: for example, which as any road warrior knows, you know,

1204
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 2: you start in the van and then and every band

1205
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 2: names their van Vana White. It's like we thought of

1206
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 2: this crazy name that nobody else would ever think of.

1207
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 2: Everybody thinks of it. Everybody's van was called Van of White.

1208
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 2: I had a Van of White myself. But then you go,

1209
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 2: you know, up, and you get maybe a sprinter van,

1210
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 2: and then you get the Tour of Us. And so

1211
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 2: through all that process, I've always been watching and paying

1212
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 2: attention to the engine and the tires and the traction

1213
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 2: and the brakes and what exactly goes into making a

1214
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 2: vehicle operate at its optimum efficiency. And yeah, so I've

1215
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 2: always been obsessed with that shit. And I'm not exactly

1216
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 2: mechanically minded, but I'm also not afraid to like just

1217
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 2: try and learn, just get into it.

1218
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 1: So, Okay, it's one thing that furniture. It's another thing

1219
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 1: to have recording equipment. The stories or legion of people's

1220
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 1: trailers being broken into. So when you were driving back

1221
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: with your trailer full, yeah, how much did you think

1222
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 1: about that? And was there any way to prevent theft?

1223
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, we were camping on top of the damn trailer.

1224
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 2: The trailer is actually called it's called No Boundaries, which

1225
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 2: is perfect name for my trailer. And it's a like

1226
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:14,679
Speaker 2: half toy hauler, half like hipster climbing mountain person tent vehicle.

1227
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 2: It's it's not so much like an RV as it

1228
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 2: is a little bit of everything. It has a fridge

1229
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 2: and a kitchen and a pop out sort of bat

1230
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 2: wing wrap around porch type situation, and a ladder that

1231
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:29,639
Speaker 2: takes you up to the roof so you can camp.

1232
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 2: And then there's this tent that pops up on the

1233
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 2: roof so we could just sleep on our stuff, you know.

1234
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 1: Okay, just so I know you're talking we, But I

1235
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: thought these trips were solow. That.

1236
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one the trip out there with the trailer,

1237
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 2: I was solow, and then the trip back was the

1238
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 2: wei with the family. But I also say we for

1239
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 2: another reason, which is that I'm not gonna sound very

1240
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 2: sane when I tell you that Lady Vagabond was there.

1241
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 2: She was she and the little version of me, and

1242
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 2: like the Alanis Morris Morriset music video, like the you know,

1243
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:12,640
Speaker 2: you know, the Alantis Morriset ironic where she's in the

1244
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 2: car with herself, that was really going on and not

1245
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 2: on a visual level. I wasn't like seeing myself, but

1246
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 2: I was talking to my imaginary friends and probably going

1247
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 2: a little mad. But I was lonely, and I was

1248
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 2: working through things that I think no therapist could have contextualized,

1249
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 2: as well as my my other people, my higher self,

1250
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,600
Speaker 2: my lower self, my evil self, my good self, my

1251
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 2: little self, you know, my elder sage self. And so

1252
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 2: it gave me the privacy to have some pretty potent

1253
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 2: conversations with the Royal.

1254
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:57,719
Speaker 1: We Man and have you been in therapy?

1255
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 2: Yes? I have. You know, it's interesting. It started out

1256
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,799
Speaker 2: during COVID after the miscarriage, because there was a poster

1257
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 2: on the wall of the doctor's office I was in,

1258
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 2: and it was that thing of like what are you feel?

1259
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:12,600
Speaker 2: You know, are you feeling any of these things? And

1260
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 2: there was a list of things and every single one

1261
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 2: of those things had gone through my head, every single one,

1262
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 2: and they said free help, you know, come and quire

1263
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 2: at the desk. And I just tore that poster off

1264
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 2: the wall and I brought it up to the checkout

1265
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 2: desk and was like, who, how, what do I do?

1266
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 2: What do I call? And which is also a really

1267
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 2: difficult thing being Grace Potter in the state of Vermont.

1268
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 2: That was also kind of uncomfortable, and it put me

1269
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 2: in a vulnerable place of asking for help kind of

1270
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 2: not publicly, because doctor's offices are a wonderfully private place,

1271
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 2: but something really terrifying had happened to me, and I

1272
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 2: just was a person. I was just a broken body

1273
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 2: needing help, and my mind was trying to catch up

1274
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 2: with the things that my body had already decided for me.

1275
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 2: So that's really what brought me into the entire process

1276
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 2: of making this record. And you know, my therapist is

1277
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 2: still I talk to her once every two weeks to

1278
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 2: this day.

1279
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:15,799
Speaker 1: And what about medication.

1280
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 2: No medication for me. I can't do that, Unfortunately I have.

1281
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 2: I mean, my brother being somebody who's been through that

1282
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:30,440
Speaker 2: mental health struggle and has been guinea pigged through medications,

1283
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 2: I've seen what I believe are pretty terrifying side effects

1284
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 2: to changing the chemistry within us to a degree that

1285
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 2: felt like if I could go back in time and

1286
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 2: stop some of those tests and some of those trials

1287
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:52,680
Speaker 2: that my brothers so helpfully helped the rest of the

1288
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:57,440
Speaker 2: world figure out were not the thing. I think physiologically,

1289
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 2: he'd be a much different person. But also just mentally,

1290
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 2: I think it did some real damage. So I've always

1291
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 2: been extremely sensitive about pills and powders on the road.

1292
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 2: And you know, medications are wonderful. Some people really do

1293
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 2: benefit from them. But I think the journey for me,

1294
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 2: with the exception of some psychedelics every once in a while,

1295
01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 2: was about trying to be okay, not being okay. You know,

1296
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 2: I've heard so many people say that now it's kind

1297
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 2: of mundane, but there was so much to be worried

1298
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 2: about and be afraid of that I think if I

1299
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:41,599
Speaker 2: had medicated it away, it wouldn't have made the problem

1300
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 2: go way. It would have prolonged the fear. And I'm

1301
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 2: not afraid anymore, you know.

1302
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go. So you decide to make the album.

1303
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 1: You made a number of albums with a group, there's

1304
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 1: a group dynamic. Now you're making the album and you're

1305
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:58,639
Speaker 1: the act. You have to find the musicians and you're

1306
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: the boss.

1307
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 2: It is different, oh man, It's it's day and night.

1308
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 2: It's a really different process. And it started with daylight

1309
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 2: and also I mean a little bit in midnight. Although

1310
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,639
Speaker 2: the Nocturnals were still in that process, they really hated

1311
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 2: it and like I said about how making albums was

1312
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 2: like brain surgery for me, getting into the studio in

1313
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 2: general just always felt like pulling teeth with the band

1314
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 2: because I think we all had a sense of what

1315
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 2: a producer should be doing with us. I think we all,

1316
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,919
Speaker 2: in our own rights, were producers of our own lives,

1317
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 2: and there's sort of I'm leading the way, I'm leading

1318
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 2: the charge that that feeling never went away, and especially

1319
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 2: was magnified and made even more keenly uncomfortable in the

1320
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 2: studio because there was somebody at the end of the

1321
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 2: day who was dropping their foot down and saying, this

1322
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 2: is how it's going to be, which was a lot

1323
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 2: of fun with some producers like Mark who just was

1324
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:04,080
Speaker 2: just delightful, delicious process of making a record with him

1325
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 2: and the Nocturnals, because he was such an unabridged, selfless

1326
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 2: musician who was really truly not there to dominate anyone

1327
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 2: in the same way that I found Eric to be.

1328
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 2: But in making these records, uh Daylight and now Mother

1329
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:28,719
Speaker 2: Road and having the bandwidth to understand that I really

1330
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 2: I am somebody who could just kind of call anybody

1331
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 2: and ask them to play with me. And there's maybe

1332
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 2: a fifty to fifty chance they'll say yes or that

1333
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,479
Speaker 2: they won't be available, but that I can do that.

1334
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 2: I can a people know who I am enough to

1335
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 2: take my call, but be that I could like pay

1336
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:52,720
Speaker 2: somebody to play with me. And it touches on the

1337
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:55,800
Speaker 2: way I write songs, because I always wrote songs for

1338
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 2: the Nocturnals with them in mind. You know, I write

1339
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 2: for the player, just like some people writing a script

1340
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 2: for a film will write for a particular actor that

1341
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 2: they have in mind for that part. And that changed,

1342
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 2: and it broke down in the writing of Daylight, and

1343
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 2: broke down further in the production and writing of Mother Road.

1344
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 2: And it was so fun because I really did just

1345
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 2: get to sort of throw the names of all the

1346
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 2: people I've ever wanted to work with out on the floor,

1347
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,679
Speaker 2: just spread them out and go like, okay, what goes together?

1348
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 2: And my first instinct was to tap people who I

1349
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 2: knew probably wouldn't be able to tour with, but that I've

1350
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 2: been wanting to play with forever so and people who

1351
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:44,719
Speaker 2: I missed, so Matt Musty, my drummer from the Midnight Tour,

1352
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:49,679
Speaker 2: also the godfather to my child. I wanted Tim Doe,

1353
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 2: the bass player from the Midnight Tour, and he had

1354
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 2: gone on to play with the Kings of Leon and

1355
01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 2: is still touring with them to this day. Matt Musty

1356
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:02,720
Speaker 2: took a gig with Train, so he's been out with

1357
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:06,759
Speaker 2: them consistently. And then Nick Bockrath with Cage the Elephant,

1358
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 2: who I had never played with, but he was opening

1359
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 2: with Raylan Baxter who's playing with Rayland just on some

1360
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 2: time when Cage the Elephant was off and just playing

1361
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 2: in the band, and I just liked him as a

1362
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 2: fucking human being. I was like, that's the vibe, that's

1363
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 2: the guy I want. Just I don't even know. I

1364
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 2: know I love Cage the Elephant. I know that the

1365
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 2: guitar is a prominent presence and that there is a

1366
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 2: real craft and some really wonderful voodoo going on in there.

1367
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:41,000
Speaker 2: Wasn't sure if it was gonna be a definitive yes

1368
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 2: or no, but felt like, let's do this, and that's

1369
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:48,080
Speaker 2: really it was. It was that simple. But Ben Mont

1370
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:51,479
Speaker 2: obviously Ben mont Tench had played on Daylight and is

1371
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 2: obviously someone who has always brought me a huge amount

1372
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 2: of joy his organ playing is he's the only organ

1373
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 2: player other than me that I'll let play my records.

1374
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about writing with the the Nocturnals in mind.

1375
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:09,160
Speaker 1: Just one stop. Are you a night person since it's

1376
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:11,520
Speaker 1: Grace Potter and the Noctournals.

1377
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to this day it's a problem because my

1378
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 2: annoyingly fresh and wonderfully youthful husband is a super duper

1379
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 2: morning person with his getting out and going snowshoeing in

1380
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:28,040
Speaker 2: the morning at six. I watched the sunrise today and

1381
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 2: I saw an eagle fly over the field. I'm like,

1382
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 2: shut up, I'm just like sawing off the sawing off

1383
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 2: another tree in my dark vampire room. I am very

1384
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 2: much a night person. I don't know how much of

1385
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 2: that is nature and how much of that is nurture,

1386
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:47,799
Speaker 2: but yes, it's.

1387
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 1: Sot in a perfect world. What time would you go

1388
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 1: to bed? What time would you wake up?

1389
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 2: Bedtime is three am? Wake up time as nine am.

1390
01:19:56,000 --> 01:20:00,040
Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about making the records previously with the

1391
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 1: Nocturnals in mind and not having to do that as

1392
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 1: a solo artist. To what degree when you make these records,

1393
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 1: do you have the audience in mind?

1394
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:15,759
Speaker 2: In this case, not a bit, because I wasn't sure

1395
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 2: if this was a record, yet same with Daylight, those

1396
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 2: two records were private. It wasn't that my Mother Road

1397
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 2: was therapeutic. I knew I was going to make a

1398
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:28,160
Speaker 2: record called Mother Road, but I didn't know if these

1399
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 2: were the songs, because, like I said, I was creating

1400
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:34,680
Speaker 2: a story that was out of body and yet very

1401
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:39,200
Speaker 2: much intrinsic to what my process is with Daylight. I

1402
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 2: just I didn't know that Eric was sort of recording

1403
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:43,720
Speaker 2: half the time, like I was just going through it,

1404
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:47,960
Speaker 2: and I was going through the emotions and the waves

1405
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 2: of feelings, you know, making a baby, having a baby,

1406
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 2: buying a house, building a life, falling in love. All

1407
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 2: those things were happening. But it was hard and it

1408
01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 2: was a danger Like I said, it was some dangerous

1409
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:02,559
Speaker 2: times involved, stressful times involved. Last thing I wanted was

1410
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 2: for the world to hear that record. To this day,

1411
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 2: I'm kind of like, I can't fucking believe I put

1412
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:09,879
Speaker 2: that record out. It's just very it's like showing everybody

1413
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 2: you're dirty undies. But but Mother Road I really did.

1414
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 2: It wasn't that I had the audience out of my mind.

1415
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 2: It was that I was in a cultivating time in

1416
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 2: the studio where I was experimenting, I was like, maybe

1417
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:26,800
Speaker 2: I do country. Maybe Oh my god, what if I

1418
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 2: chicken fry the whole record? Or you know what if

1419
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 2: this is a this is an original motion picture soundtrack

1420
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 2: and so then oh but shit, then I would have

1421
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:37,439
Speaker 2: to make a movie. Oh fuck, Okay, Well what if

1422
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 2: I just do both? And that's really what set me

1423
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 2: in mind. I was thinking about my audience for the film,

1424
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:49,800
Speaker 2: and the film is the album, but the album it's

1425
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:52,680
Speaker 2: I call it the original motion picture soundtrack to an

1426
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 2: invisible movie.

1427
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 1: You talk about, yeah, talk about the miscarriage and being

1428
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:03,360
Speaker 1: depressed generally speaking? Are you an optimist? Pessimists? Half full?

1429
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 1: Glass empty?

1430
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:07,559
Speaker 2: I had always been a glass half full person, like

1431
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:12,520
Speaker 2: to a sickening degree where I think my therapist introduced

1432
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 2: me to an amazing term toxic positivity. I just thought

1433
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:25,600
Speaker 2: that was delicious, and I yeah, up until the miscarriage

1434
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 2: and just the midlife journey of being someone who's been

1435
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:32,760
Speaker 2: out on the road. And I know what jaded sounds like,

1436
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 2: and I really hate that, I really do. So I

1437
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:39,639
Speaker 2: really needed this record to both be glass half full

1438
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:43,479
Speaker 2: but also acknowledge the empty cup I was walking around with,

1439
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:50,120
Speaker 2: and that feeling is I think intrinsically part of what

1440
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 2: drove me to make this sounds at RCA instead of

1441
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 2: in my home, which felt way too close. It's like

1442
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 2: I got to be a character, imagine myself as Dolly

1443
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 2: Parton or Waylon Jennings. In fact, the ghost of Waylen

1444
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 2: Jennings is one hundred percent all. He was all up

1445
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 2: on my business at the studio. He was he was

1446
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 2: whisper and lyrics in my ear. I feel like, you

1447
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 2: know that, in the same kind kind of cosmic way

1448
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 2: that I feel my way through the audience and the

1449
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 2: stage experience. This was the first time in the studio

1450
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 2: where I really felt like I was conjuring some some

1451
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 2: energy and some narratives that were actually beyond myself in

1452
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:37,679
Speaker 2: an incredibly comforting way. It wasn't spooky, it wasn't scary.

1453
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 2: It was just surreal and really it was transformative for

1454
01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 2: me in the studio and yeah, okay, kind of crass.

1455
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,639
Speaker 1: The landscape is very different. I'm talking about the business

1456
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:56,599
Speaker 1: career landscape that it was in the last century, which

1457
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: is not when you've had most of any of your career,

1458
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 1: and in the twenty first century, there's been an evolution

1459
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,759
Speaker 1: such that like in the last ten or twelve years,

1460
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 1: the old paradigm of your world, dominant, etc. Is not

1461
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 1: the case. So you finish a record, you're very in

1462
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:18,559
Speaker 1: this intense experience in the studio. Now it comes time

1463
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 1: people can't see my air quotes to sell the record.

1464
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:25,559
Speaker 1: Now to what degree? I'm sure when you make something

1465
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:27,920
Speaker 1: you want everybody to hear it, which is a near

1466
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 1: impossibility in today's world, irrelevant of what the record is.

1467
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: So the question become let me put it a different way.

1468
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: There are all these articles about the Taylor Swift tour,

1469
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:41,760
Speaker 1: and she and Morganwall one of the biggest acts in

1470
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:45,120
Speaker 1: the United States today. If we went and talked to

1471
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 1: people and said name to Taylor Swift records, we went

1472
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:50,840
Speaker 1: through Waitsfield, many people would not even be able to

1473
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 1: do it, never mind seeing them. And that's Taylor Swift.

1474
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:58,960
Speaker 1: So you have less ubiquity than she has. To what

1475
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:02,360
Speaker 1: degree is this challenging? To what degree does this affect

1476
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:03,040
Speaker 1: your outlook?

1477
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 2: Okay, this is just such a good question. And it's

1478
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 2: the thing about me that fundamentally has never changed. I

1479
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 2: always think I'm kicking ass, and it's a really specific

1480
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:21,439
Speaker 2: feeling of It's not that no one else can. It's

1481
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:27,719
Speaker 2: an inclusive, ass kicking sensation that I think is probably

1482
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:30,439
Speaker 2: based on the dopamine that is created when you're out

1483
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 2: on stage and you get this sort of adrenaline and

1484
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 2: this flow that is beyond me. I really believe Tina

1485
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 2: Turner had it, and I believe that I have it.

1486
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:42,920
Speaker 2: Whatever that is, it's a bug. It's something that gets

1487
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 2: in you as a cosmic bug that just like crawls

1488
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:49,160
Speaker 2: up your ass and never goes away. That it's not

1489
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:52,760
Speaker 2: wagging the dog. It's not confidence coming from within necessarily,

1490
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: it's confidence coming through and that I just don't give

1491
01:25:57,320 --> 01:25:59,560
Speaker 2: a damn how many people are in the audience or

1492
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 2: how many reds I sell, and I don't care if

1493
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 2: I'm not killing it. I don't like seeing a sad,

1494
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 2: empty room. But if the three people in there are elated,

1495
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:15,599
Speaker 2: that is the same key. That's the golden ticket. That's it.

1496
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 2: That's all I've ever wanted. And I think on a

1497
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 2: realistic level, obviously, there are things to cultivate within that

1498
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,920
Speaker 2: thought process. For example, it's good to know that your

1499
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:30,240
Speaker 2: ticket sales are either growing or declining, that your record

1500
01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:32,760
Speaker 2: sales are doing well, or that your streams or this

1501
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:37,599
Speaker 2: or that I just take that hat and I hand

1502
01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:40,799
Speaker 2: it to somebody else who's really good at that. Because

1503
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 2: the second that I start thinking about it is where

1504
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:48,719
Speaker 2: I lose my honesty. It's where I lose my connection

1505
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:52,400
Speaker 2: to the purpose that exists inside me, which is specifically

1506
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 2: to make the music as pure as possible. I can't

1507
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 2: be thinking, I can't be watching the hearts and the

1508
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 2: likes coming up through the screen. You know. One of

1509
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:03,639
Speaker 2: my least favorite things to do is those like live

1510
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:05,559
Speaker 2: things where there's a Q and A and I have

1511
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:09,680
Speaker 2: to like watch people's comments go by, because they're just

1512
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:14,160
Speaker 2: feelings and thoughts. They're just exactly like balloons floating through

1513
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 2: the air. Or when if you meditate, it's you know,

1514
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:20,679
Speaker 2: your thoughts are, you know, unhelpful little leaves on the river,

1515
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:22,679
Speaker 2: but if you just sit by the river long enough.

1516
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:26,280
Speaker 2: So my creative process is to tap into the river

1517
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:29,000
Speaker 2: as much as I can, to know that it's flowing

1518
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 2: through me, that it doesn't belong to me, that my

1519
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:34,880
Speaker 2: ego is a complete construct, that the stories that I

1520
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:38,400
Speaker 2: tell myself are both important for the reasons that they

1521
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:43,240
Speaker 2: lead to songwriting, but also completely meaningless, and that the

1522
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 2: sooner I'm able to break those down, the less attached,

1523
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 2: I will get to this white knuckling through life sensation

1524
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 2: that I had had for all that time. And so

1525
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:59,400
Speaker 2: to answer your question, I wanted world domination and I'm

1526
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:00,000
Speaker 2: going for it.

1527
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:03,040
Speaker 1: And I think I can show.

1528
01:28:02,840 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 2: From the design my record cover that that's what I'm

1529
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 2: that's I designed that record cover myself with the very

1530
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:12,000
Speaker 2: specific intention that if it's on a shelf and you're

1531
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 2: at Walmart, or if you're at a gas station, or

1532
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 2: if you're at Target, or if you're I hate that

1533
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 2: I haven't listened a single record store yet, but that's

1534
01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:24,920
Speaker 2: just reality. It is a billboard from the most obnoxious

1535
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 2: commercial time in the nineteen nineties, when everybody was in

1536
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:34,679
Speaker 2: competition with the most shocking, you know images, and I thought, Okay,

1537
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 2: I'll just put my cameltoe on my record cover. That

1538
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:42,320
Speaker 2: can skip all the apologetic bullshit and get right to

1539
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 2: the point so that people really know that they need

1540
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:46,840
Speaker 2: to be strapped in for this one.

1541
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:51,479
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, you have the process, You write, the songs,

1542
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: you record, and they come out. You got to sell

1543
01:28:53,160 --> 01:28:56,280
Speaker 1: them to what degree do you ultimately, you know, once

1544
01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:00,240
Speaker 1: your home off the road, say okay, look at the

1545
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:02,840
Speaker 1: record company, look at the grosses, look at the Is

1546
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:04,679
Speaker 1: this going in the right or wrong direction?

1547
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 2: No? I literally don't check those emails, and sometimes they'll

1548
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:11,639
Speaker 2: get through and it's it's been really good news lately,

1549
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:13,280
Speaker 2: which is really lovely.

1550
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:14,040
Speaker 1: Uh.

1551
01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 2: It's not that I'm afraid of bad news. I'm not

1552
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:20,519
Speaker 2: interested in either news. I really can't. I can't. I'm

1553
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 2: very lucky to say that. I know I sound like

1554
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:29,680
Speaker 2: laissez faire and maybe potentially ignorant and ungrateful for the

1555
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:31,800
Speaker 2: people that work really hard for me, which I'm not.

1556
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:35,280
Speaker 2: I am so so not ignorant of what they do.

1557
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 2: But I cannot. I cannot make space in my in

1558
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:45,280
Speaker 2: my head for the worrying, because if I do, this

1559
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 2: is what happens. I just want to rip the band

1560
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:51,040
Speaker 2: aid off and go pick a new career. If it's

1561
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:54,719
Speaker 2: not fun for me, If this feels like the blister

1562
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:58,120
Speaker 2: on my heel because I picked cowboy boots instead of

1563
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:02,439
Speaker 2: beach sandals, then fuck, I'm going to the beach. You know.

1564
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 2: I really don't think and I was lucky to fall

1565
01:30:06,160 --> 01:30:09,720
Speaker 2: into that moment in the music industry where I have

1566
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 2: this name that is somehow like there it's not there

1567
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:18,639
Speaker 2: like Taylor Swift, and it's not there in the way

1568
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 2: that it used to be, but it's it's there the

1569
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:24,320
Speaker 2: way that the artists that I love were there for

1570
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:28,600
Speaker 2: me when I was growing up, And to be a

1571
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:32,280
Speaker 2: presence in that way already feels like I've accomplished so much.

1572
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:35,120
Speaker 2: You know, after singing Get Me Shelter on stage with

1573
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:37,760
Speaker 2: the Rolling Stones, I could have just dropped the mic

1574
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 2: and said, bye, I'm going to go make a million

1575
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,080
Speaker 2: babies and live in Switzerland and bury my money and bye,

1576
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 2: you know, And there's times where I kind of want to.

1577
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:51,519
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, I think it's so fun that

1578
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 2: we get to do this for a living, and I

1579
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 2: think that it's so hilarious that I'm still getting away

1580
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:59,360
Speaker 2: with it and that people are actually willing to be

1581
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 2: there help me do it, and you.

1582
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:04,439
Speaker 1: Know, okay, for me, let's just say most people have

1583
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 1: not seen both sides of the fence. You talk about

1584
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:10,759
Speaker 1: singing with the Stones, Yeah, and live is more important

1585
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 1: than ever. But talking about recordings, you made a record

1586
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:18,800
Speaker 1: with Kenny Chesney, who's a country superstar, you and Tequila

1587
01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 1: that was a huge hit. Yeah, what was that experience

1588
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:24,840
Speaker 1: like for you it.

1589
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:27,800
Speaker 2: Was awesome, and I think it was. I was blindsided

1590
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:31,000
Speaker 2: by what it would do for my career and also

1591
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:35,760
Speaker 2: what it would change about my fan base, and how

1592
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:40,280
Speaker 2: it propelled me into a limelight that continues to this day.

1593
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:43,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I was just on an email about this

1594
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:49,479
Speaker 2: about him and today and everywhere I go. It is

1595
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 2: one of the great gifts that the music cosmos handed me,

1596
01:31:55,400 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 2: in the same way that they handed me Mayvis Staples

1597
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:02,599
Speaker 2: in the Fair Godmother that she is to me with

1598
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:07,280
Speaker 2: advice and love and respect and joy and inspiration. Kenny

1599
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:12,559
Speaker 2: is such a true gift because it really was this

1600
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:14,720
Speaker 2: like it felt like a joke when I got the

1601
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:17,519
Speaker 2: phone call and was invited to sing on that song.

1602
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:23,760
Speaker 2: It's turned into the catalyst for a lot of the

1603
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:27,920
Speaker 2: other successes I've had, and the reason why probably a

1604
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 2: lot of the things I can do to this day

1605
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:36,439
Speaker 2: are so so possible. But yet I think the hunger

1606
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 2: that I see in him, and the work ethic and

1607
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:44,920
Speaker 2: the drive and the Nashville approach to things that machine

1608
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 2: terrifies me. I think it's something that I wouldn't want

1609
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:53,080
Speaker 2: in my life. I can't believe the strength that is

1610
01:32:53,120 --> 01:33:00,200
Speaker 2: required to maintain that agenda and those expectations, and so

1611
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:02,719
Speaker 2: in a way, I think when I when you mentioned Taylor,

1612
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:06,519
Speaker 2: you know, touring with Tim McGraw and meeting Faith Hill

1613
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:10,759
Speaker 2: and her amazing daughters, and the families that come along

1614
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 2: for this ride, Derek and Susan, you know, Warren Haynes,

1615
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,960
Speaker 2: and these characters that have come into my life over

1616
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:21,200
Speaker 2: and over again, from a Kenny Chesney to a a

1617
01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:25,880
Speaker 2: Wayne Coyn. I have found that it is the not

1618
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:29,960
Speaker 2: belonging that keeps me in the balance and in the

1619
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 2: presence of people's minds, as the like what the fuck character,

1620
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:35,599
Speaker 2: you know, And I love being the what the fuck character?

1621
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:38,880
Speaker 2: You know. I'm like Francis mcdormant. I just show up

1622
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:40,720
Speaker 2: in all the cool movies and you're like, oh man,

1623
01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:43,280
Speaker 2: it's her again. Yeah, I love her, but you're like,

1624
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:45,920
Speaker 2: what the fuck is she? Okay? Now, this is good.

1625
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:46,559
Speaker 2: This is good.

1626
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:47,000
Speaker 1: You know.

1627
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:51,000
Speaker 2: I'll be Francis mcdormandt of rock and roll for the

1628
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:56,960
Speaker 2: rest of my life if you want.

1629
01:33:59,360 --> 01:34:02,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's say you're in Vermont, you go to

1630
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 1: Saint Johnsbury, you go to Londonderry, you're filling up with gas.

1631
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,400
Speaker 1: You go in the convenience store. Are you recognized?

1632
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:12,599
Speaker 2: Not as much as you'd think, But when I am,

1633
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 2: it's like a thing. Yeah, I'm recognized more often in

1634
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:21,599
Speaker 2: Nashville than in New York City than anywhere else, which

1635
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 2: is very interesting. Specifically at airports, yeah, airports Denver, Chicago,

1636
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:34,520
Speaker 2: and then on the street in Nashville, in Philadelphia, and

1637
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:37,720
Speaker 2: an in Florida. Lot of Florida recognition. I don't know how.

1638
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:40,000
Speaker 2: I don't know how. It's very interesting.

1639
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:42,360
Speaker 1: Well, do you ever think twice, maybe you're into panga

1640
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:44,160
Speaker 1: wherever you are, say oh, I just want to go

1641
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:47,360
Speaker 1: to the grocery store and pick some shit up. You say,

1642
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:49,439
Speaker 1: oh god, I got to fix my hairs. I'm going

1643
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:50,560
Speaker 1: to be recognized.

1644
01:34:51,200 --> 01:34:55,040
Speaker 2: It's it's so weird. It's kind of the opposite because

1645
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 2: in California, everybody's famous or thinks they are, and so

1646
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:02,000
Speaker 2: everybody wanders around like, yeah, I know, it's me, you know.

1647
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:06,479
Speaker 2: But being that Vermont is such a small state, it's

1648
01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:09,240
Speaker 2: actually a little more stressful for me. I put way

1649
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:13,000
Speaker 2: more thought into walking out the door and how I'm

1650
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:15,960
Speaker 2: presenting in Vermont. And I think it's because I have

1651
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:21,000
Speaker 2: this slightly political bent to my presence here. There's always

1652
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:23,439
Speaker 2: something to do. There's a fundraiser, or there's you know,

1653
01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:26,599
Speaker 2: just on Saturday, it was with Bernie Sanders all day

1654
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:30,960
Speaker 2: raising awareness for the arts and trying to create culture,

1655
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:33,479
Speaker 2: bring back the bread and circus, so that we have

1656
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 2: something to defend here, something bigger than ourselves. And art

1657
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 2: and music is that bigger thing that conscious humans are

1658
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:45,800
Speaker 2: capable of creating. And it's getting cut. The budgets are

1659
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:48,760
Speaker 2: getting cut. And so I'm sitting here in this situation

1660
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 2: of again being the weird person that's kind of flowing

1661
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:56,600
Speaker 2: through my life with what I believe is my purpose.

1662
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:03,160
Speaker 2: Vanity rarely plays to it as much as optics of

1663
01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:06,679
Speaker 2: like where this might go someday, what my kid might see,

1664
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:09,439
Speaker 2: you know, like me breastfeeding the stranger at the In

1665
01:36:09,479 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 2: and Out Burger that we discussed at the beginning of

1666
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:15,160
Speaker 2: the interview, Like I'm glad there was no video of that.

1667
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:18,840
Speaker 2: But I looked so good that night, Okay I did.

1668
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:22,439
Speaker 2: I looked fucking hot and my tit's were leaking milk

1669
01:36:22,720 --> 01:36:24,799
Speaker 2: and it was the kind of milk that gets you drunk.

1670
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:29,360
Speaker 2: So anyways, back to what you were asking, the answer

1671
01:36:29,439 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 2: is no, I really don't. I mean I don't get

1672
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 2: noticed that much. I'm not that kind of famous, okay

1673
01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 2: that way.

1674
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:39,320
Speaker 1: And then what about being an attractive woman in a

1675
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:45,040
Speaker 1: music business that is really male dominated. For every ten

1676
01:36:45,240 --> 01:36:49,559
Speaker 1: guys who are reasonable and respectful, there's one or two

1677
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:53,040
Speaker 1: complete assholes. So what's it? What's it like for you?

1678
01:36:53,800 --> 01:37:00,479
Speaker 2: That's that's the eternal question for a lot of women

1679
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 2: who have observed my process. I don't ask that question

1680
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:08,519
Speaker 2: as much as I enjoy the body I got this

1681
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:11,200
Speaker 2: time around, because I was definitely a dude in every

1682
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:13,960
Speaker 2: other life. This is the first time I've ever had tits,

1683
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:17,360
Speaker 2: so it's been fun to be on this particular journey.

1684
01:37:19,479 --> 01:37:22,920
Speaker 2: And I think that the identity politics of is she

1685
01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:25,360
Speaker 2: a hot girl? You know, the sort of rock and

1686
01:37:25,439 --> 01:37:29,240
Speaker 2: roll barbie stuff, has finally settled, like that dust has

1687
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:32,960
Speaker 2: finally settled. I've discussed it to a point where I'm

1688
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:35,880
Speaker 2: also just I've aged out of that being such a

1689
01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:38,920
Speaker 2: hot pressure point for people. And now it's just like

1690
01:37:39,080 --> 01:37:41,479
Speaker 2: it goes without saying that when you signed with Disney,

1691
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 2: your image changed, and now everybody knows that that was

1692
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:49,080
Speaker 2: me doing that, because suddenly somebody wanted to play dress

1693
01:37:49,160 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 2: up with me, like for the first time ever in

1694
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:56,600
Speaker 2: my life, people were paying attention and helping me to play,

1695
01:37:56,680 --> 01:37:59,759
Speaker 2: you know, to play dress up and explore the visual

1696
01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:04,439
Speaker 2: stimulation that is a woman in a male dominated business.

1697
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:10,600
Speaker 2: I think it served me in a few different ways.

1698
01:38:10,680 --> 01:38:14,280
Speaker 2: Where it failed me, it was character building because I

1699
01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:19,200
Speaker 2: don't have victim energy, you know, I don't come into

1700
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 2: a situation with a huge amount of fear that I'm

1701
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:26,640
Speaker 2: going to be dominated. I'm surprisingly shy, but I do

1702
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:30,520
Speaker 2: kind of clock the room, read the room first, and

1703
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:34,880
Speaker 2: figure out what feels on multiple levels, like the right

1704
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:39,040
Speaker 2: approach visually. And so when I'm dressing for a show

1705
01:38:39,080 --> 01:38:41,599
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking about that, when there's a context for everything.

1706
01:38:42,280 --> 01:38:45,480
Speaker 2: And I love fashion, it's just like I love storytelling.

1707
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:47,680
Speaker 2: It's just like I love filmmaking, and it's how I

1708
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:53,080
Speaker 2: love painting. There is a different tone to every situation

1709
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:58,240
Speaker 2: you find yourself in, and I have definitely leaned on

1710
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:03,920
Speaker 2: my legs and my physical appearance because it's a medium,

1711
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:07,519
Speaker 2: just like the guitar or a tambourine or a ham

1712
01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:12,639
Speaker 2: and be three organ or fucking bagpipes. Every single texture

1713
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:16,480
Speaker 2: and tone that is called for in any one room,

1714
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:19,800
Speaker 2: there is a medium for that, and Oftentimes in my

1715
01:39:19,880 --> 01:39:23,200
Speaker 2: life with the music business, or at an award show

1716
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:26,320
Speaker 2: or at a radio convention, people have thrown me those

1717
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:30,320
Speaker 2: curveballs and those unexpectedly inappropriate Just what the fuck are

1718
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:36,920
Speaker 2: you talking about? Questions or just propositions or inappropriate statements.

1719
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:40,719
Speaker 2: But no motherfucker has ever tried to touch me, because

1720
01:39:40,720 --> 01:39:43,599
Speaker 2: I just come at them with I think an energy

1721
01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:48,240
Speaker 2: that already is a little bit creepier than they are.

1722
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:54,240
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, that's really what it is. I

1723
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:55,120
Speaker 2: an aggressor.

1724
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:59,000
Speaker 1: You just mentioned being shy one of the things you

1725
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 1: said earlier. This stuff out my brain. Well, you know,

1726
01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:03,720
Speaker 1: I want to make a record. I have my fantasy

1727
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:07,080
Speaker 1: lists I made contact. Are you the type of person

1728
01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:10,240
Speaker 1: who has no problem, no fear, or you're saying, you know,

1729
01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:13,479
Speaker 1: let me have somebody else call or I'll wait till

1730
01:40:13,479 --> 01:40:16,040
Speaker 1: the phone rings. What do you really like?

1731
01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:23,040
Speaker 2: I like being alone. I like being left alone, and

1732
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:25,360
Speaker 2: I like to feel like I'm being given a chance

1733
01:40:25,400 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 2: to make a choice. When I'm not, I feel extremely

1734
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 2: cloistered and not suffocated, but angry. I get very bitter

1735
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:43,000
Speaker 2: when I feel like choices are being made for me

1736
01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:48,920
Speaker 2: and the outcomes are beyond my knowledge and someone is like,

1737
01:40:49,080 --> 01:40:52,160
Speaker 2: this will be best for you, you know, which is

1738
01:40:52,200 --> 01:40:55,200
Speaker 2: again that's why I avoided Eric Valentine for almost ten

1739
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:58,479
Speaker 2: whole years, because everybody kept telling me to meet with

1740
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:04,439
Speaker 2: Eric Valentine. I think the solitude that I seek is

1741
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:08,760
Speaker 2: usually because I have a roundabout way of getting to

1742
01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:13,120
Speaker 2: my gut feelings. There's always the initial gut of like,

1743
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:18,280
Speaker 2: hey you, you know, there's two offers have come in.

1744
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:20,479
Speaker 2: One is would get you to Red Rocks, So you

1745
01:41:20,479 --> 01:41:22,400
Speaker 2: could do two nights at Red Rocks. Looks like we're

1746
01:41:22,400 --> 01:41:24,880
Speaker 2: probably gonna be able to headline this year, but you'd

1747
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:26,760
Speaker 2: have to have a strong support and it would be

1748
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:29,800
Speaker 2: a double bill versus one night at Red Rocks with

1749
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:35,200
Speaker 2: just you, gut instinct, just me, smart me, two days totally,

1750
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:37,200
Speaker 2: let's do the double bill with a strong support or

1751
01:41:37,240 --> 01:41:41,400
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. Like I know that

1752
01:41:41,400 --> 01:41:46,080
Speaker 2: that time required is really just my own ritual of

1753
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:51,479
Speaker 2: coming to terms with reality because the fantasy that I

1754
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:54,559
Speaker 2: live inside, like I said, it's this lightning bolt way

1755
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:58,920
Speaker 2: of approaching life is and can be extremely chaotic. But

1756
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:02,800
Speaker 2: if there's stillness in the midst of that, if I

1757
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:06,560
Speaker 2: can find those places to center myself and find the

1758
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 2: places where I can understand that the thoughts I'm having

1759
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:13,679
Speaker 2: are just thoughts. Then I don't need to be defined

1760
01:42:13,720 --> 01:42:18,240
Speaker 2: by my former impressions of myself and just make a

1761
01:42:18,320 --> 01:42:20,960
Speaker 2: choice that I think is going to bring as much

1762
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:23,280
Speaker 2: of what I really want to share with the world

1763
01:42:23,320 --> 01:42:26,920
Speaker 2: out into the world in the best way possible. That

1764
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:29,559
Speaker 2: goes for being a mom and a family member. And

1765
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:31,679
Speaker 2: it's why we moved to Vermont. It's all the things

1766
01:42:31,760 --> 01:42:34,920
Speaker 2: that we've been talking about today, but more than anything,

1767
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:38,679
Speaker 2: because we are talking about the music industry. I think

1768
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:43,360
Speaker 2: I need more time sometimes by myself than most people,

1769
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:46,920
Speaker 2: which is why I rent a car a lot, because

1770
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:51,639
Speaker 2: I don't like driving in the car with passengers. I've

1771
01:42:51,680 --> 01:42:52,840
Speaker 2: got enough of them right here.

1772
01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:59,439
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just leave out practicality, childcare, etc. I call

1773
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:02,960
Speaker 1: you up to and say literally today and say come

1774
01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:07,439
Speaker 1: to dinner. You're going to say yes, so, And then

1775
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:09,680
Speaker 1: I say, well, come to dinner tonight. And there's a

1776
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: party tomorrow night, and there's a picnic for families on Sunday.

1777
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:16,439
Speaker 1: You Andry go, Wow, that's way too much stuff.

1778
01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:19,080
Speaker 2: That's too much. Yeah, So the big long plan, and

1779
01:43:19,120 --> 01:43:22,160
Speaker 2: that's what just happened to us actually yesterday in Vermont,

1780
01:43:22,200 --> 01:43:25,320
Speaker 2: I got invited last minute to a dinner which was

1781
01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:29,280
Speaker 2: a really cool fundraiser and brought in all the farms,

1782
01:43:29,360 --> 01:43:33,719
Speaker 2: family farms, and chefs and foodies from all around Vermont

1783
01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:37,720
Speaker 2: and brought them together onto this gorgeous tasting menu. And

1784
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 2: it was sort of a wonderful, elbow rubbing opportunity for

1785
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 2: me to go meet a bunch of local farmers and

1786
01:43:45,080 --> 01:43:49,320
Speaker 2: reintegrate into the world of Vermont in a way that

1787
01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:52,679
Speaker 2: I think is important for the development that I'm trying

1788
01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:56,960
Speaker 2: to do. And it involved a huge amount of logistics

1789
01:43:57,000 --> 01:44:00,160
Speaker 2: after we had already figured out that we did and

1790
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:03,280
Speaker 2: have childcare, and Eric was like, but I already bought

1791
01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:06,080
Speaker 2: the tickets, and then I found out it's not kid friendly,

1792
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:09,960
Speaker 2: So there was that moment of like, oh shit, but

1793
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,920
Speaker 2: the tickets were really expensive and I wanted to, you know, go,

1794
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:17,280
Speaker 2: So we actually called up a friend and orchestrated the

1795
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:20,400
Speaker 2: complicated logistics that you just mentioned. The picnic the next day,

1796
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:23,559
Speaker 2: the childcare, the overnight. Oh in this somebody else's family

1797
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:25,040
Speaker 2: is going to be there, so is there parking for

1798
01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:28,040
Speaker 2: the extra car? And we did all of it and

1799
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:32,360
Speaker 2: it actually worked, but I almost missed a couple of

1800
01:44:32,400 --> 01:44:36,559
Speaker 2: interviews because of it today, because there's not reception between

1801
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:40,960
Speaker 2: Shelburne Farms and our home here in Waitesfield. So I said,

1802
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:43,160
Speaker 2: as long as I get back for Bob's interview, will

1803
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:44,560
Speaker 2: be good. And that was that.

1804
01:44:44,760 --> 01:44:45,200
Speaker 1: You were my.

1805
01:44:45,160 --> 01:44:48,320
Speaker 2: Goalpost for the day. But that's the level of chaos

1806
01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:51,040
Speaker 2: and spontaneity that exists in the Potter family. It's what

1807
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:53,160
Speaker 2: I grew up with, and it's it's my truth. It's

1808
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:55,519
Speaker 2: just who I am. And Eric's got to deal with it.

1809
01:44:56,800 --> 01:45:02,040
Speaker 1: Okay, now you talk about you know, life crisis, etc. Yeah,

1810
01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 1: was turning forty difficult?

1811
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:08,120
Speaker 2: No, it was delicious. This was a new high for

1812
01:45:08,240 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 2: me because I think I needed a bumper sticker number

1813
01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:18,639
Speaker 2: for just I think passing the kidney stone that has

1814
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:21,720
Speaker 2: been this last four years of bullshit. You know, I

1815
01:45:21,720 --> 01:45:24,800
Speaker 2: think we all have had our own versions of it,

1816
01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:30,960
Speaker 2: but for me, forty just feels like an affirmation, a justification,

1817
01:45:31,640 --> 01:45:37,479
Speaker 2: an emancipation from all former promises to self, you know.

1818
01:45:38,479 --> 01:45:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, now you mentioned Bernie Sanders, whose unique character.

1819
01:45:43,000 --> 01:45:45,519
Speaker 1: When I went to college in Vermont, it was red.

1820
01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:51,160
Speaker 1: Now it's more blue than red. Yeah, Okay, we live

1821
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:55,920
Speaker 1: in a very divided country. Is this something you think about?

1822
01:45:56,120 --> 01:45:59,080
Speaker 1: You say, well, I better not say this or do this,

1823
01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 1: because it might have been some of my audience members.

1824
01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:07,479
Speaker 2: I do. Actually, the problem is that I have such

1825
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:11,080
Speaker 2: a diarrhea mouth, and I'm so poorly educated on what

1826
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:15,559
Speaker 2: is blue or or green or red anymore in the

1827
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:18,439
Speaker 2: statements that I'm making, because I don't live in the

1828
01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:24,479
Speaker 2: cadence of linguistic times of now. I'm from elsewhere. So

1829
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:28,559
Speaker 2: when I'm communicating and I say something that's taken out

1830
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:31,400
Speaker 2: of context or that I'm just truly just talking shit

1831
01:46:31,400 --> 01:46:34,320
Speaker 2: and don't know what I'm saying, I usually try to

1832
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:36,599
Speaker 2: stop myself and go I think I'm just talking shit

1833
01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:39,040
Speaker 2: and I don't really know what I'm talking about. But

1834
01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:43,400
Speaker 2: and so I rarely go into politics to the point

1835
01:46:43,400 --> 01:46:46,000
Speaker 2: where like me and Bernie, this is the first time

1836
01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:48,720
Speaker 2: we've done this collaboration, and it's because it's touching on

1837
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:51,960
Speaker 2: a point that is extremely important to me. Separate of

1838
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:57,200
Speaker 2: supporting any one person and siding with or saddling up

1839
01:46:57,240 --> 01:47:02,960
Speaker 2: to anybody. I'm friends with many politicians on both sides

1840
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:06,920
Speaker 2: of the fence, both in Vermont and everywhere in the States.

1841
01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:11,560
Speaker 2: But I also feel like it's more and more dangerous

1842
01:47:11,640 --> 01:47:15,880
Speaker 2: to tread in those waters. The cancel culture has gone

1843
01:47:17,080 --> 01:47:21,120
Speaker 2: in one direction, and the woke culture has also pulled

1844
01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:27,400
Speaker 2: me into many things that I think, Yeah, the spiral

1845
01:47:27,479 --> 01:47:31,320
Speaker 2: goes both ways, and there's been fear, and there's been vindication,

1846
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:34,560
Speaker 2: and there's been sea I'm right, and the justification the

1847
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:37,679
Speaker 2: conversation that goes on within myself because I'm a Gemini

1848
01:47:38,840 --> 01:47:42,280
Speaker 2: battles with all of the same content that we all

1849
01:47:42,280 --> 01:47:45,040
Speaker 2: are battling with, and nobody wants to get canceled. But

1850
01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:49,400
Speaker 2: because that would that would be devastating. I genuinely would

1851
01:47:49,400 --> 01:47:54,120
Speaker 2: hate to have let the world down by not being

1852
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:59,200
Speaker 2: able to have my music be taken with love and

1853
01:47:59,400 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 2: feel like suddenly, not only did I say one thing

1854
01:48:04,320 --> 01:48:07,160
Speaker 2: that changes, or did I side with the wrong side

1855
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:08,759
Speaker 2: or be on the wrong side of history or whatever.

1856
01:48:09,320 --> 01:48:12,439
Speaker 2: It would be so sad to lose an opportunity to

1857
01:48:12,479 --> 01:48:16,680
Speaker 2: continue creating in a way that I feel is intrinsically

1858
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:19,639
Speaker 2: there for people just showing up and being there. So

1859
01:48:20,040 --> 01:48:24,639
Speaker 2: I do try to tread really lightly in the way

1860
01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:28,160
Speaker 2: that many Nashville folks do. I think I was trained

1861
01:48:28,439 --> 01:48:34,280
Speaker 2: under the feet of many brilliant performers who have sided

1862
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:36,960
Speaker 2: with the things they're really really passionate about and spoken

1863
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:39,760
Speaker 2: out when it's time to and paid the price for it.

1864
01:48:41,200 --> 01:48:44,840
Speaker 2: And also I've seen that respect and that flow. I've

1865
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:47,760
Speaker 2: been around long enough to see where maybe it was

1866
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:50,000
Speaker 2: a scary thing to talk about ten years ago, but

1867
01:48:50,120 --> 01:48:54,560
Speaker 2: now it's a little bit more in the collective consciousness.

1868
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:58,080
Speaker 2: So when I don't know what I'm talking about, I

1869
01:48:58,120 --> 01:49:02,000
Speaker 2: think is the place where I need the I need

1870
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:04,759
Speaker 2: the bottleneck. I need that like handle or that person

1871
01:49:04,760 --> 01:49:07,719
Speaker 2: who wears that hat we were talking about before, somebody

1872
01:49:07,720 --> 01:49:10,720
Speaker 2: else with the hat to come and uh and and

1873
01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:13,800
Speaker 2: put a lid on me. Because if I don't feel

1874
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:18,240
Speaker 2: passionate about it, I'm probably just pontificating and maybe even

1875
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:21,880
Speaker 2: forming a song in my head something that starts to

1876
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:24,360
Speaker 2: feel like I can make sense of it. You know,

1877
01:49:24,439 --> 01:49:29,720
Speaker 2: Metaphors are a very dangerous tool, and language is powerful,

1878
01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:34,960
Speaker 2: and it's a it's a process to follow down the

1879
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:37,240
Speaker 2: yellow brick road of exactly where we're going with all

1880
01:49:37,320 --> 01:49:40,280
Speaker 2: this stuff. I'm very uncomfortable with it, to be totally honest.

1881
01:49:40,880 --> 01:49:44,559
Speaker 1: Jason Alden has a song about a small town saying

1882
01:49:44,720 --> 01:49:48,800
Speaker 1: essentially what you do in the city wouldn't work in

1883
01:49:48,840 --> 01:49:51,599
Speaker 1: a small town. He grew up in Macon, Georgia, which

1884
01:49:51,640 --> 01:49:54,320
Speaker 1: is not a small town. R you grew up in

1885
01:49:54,360 --> 01:49:58,320
Speaker 1: a small town. What's it really like in a small town.

1886
01:49:59,000 --> 01:50:02,559
Speaker 2: Well, it really is. I think the most important thing

1887
01:50:02,600 --> 01:50:06,040
Speaker 2: is accountability. Like everybody knows everybody, and if my kid

1888
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:09,000
Speaker 2: spit in the eye of another kid at school, it

1889
01:50:09,040 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 2: would be a big problem, and it would it would

1890
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:15,519
Speaker 2: be something that was discussed by everybody, whether they were

1891
01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:18,080
Speaker 2: involved or not, and whether they're they were in the

1892
01:50:18,160 --> 01:50:21,160
Speaker 2: room and saw what happened or not. And it's not

1893
01:50:21,200 --> 01:50:25,439
Speaker 2: just a gossip mill. It's about the accountability being the

1894
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:28,400
Speaker 2: positive side of it as well, not just the sad, bad,

1895
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:32,479
Speaker 2: puritanical judgment that you get from people, but also the

1896
01:50:32,920 --> 01:50:35,840
Speaker 2: like do they need help? Does this family? Is this

1897
01:50:35,880 --> 01:50:38,120
Speaker 2: family struggling because usually a kid is acting out in

1898
01:50:38,120 --> 01:50:41,040
Speaker 2: school because X, Y or Z must be going wrong

1899
01:50:41,120 --> 01:50:45,240
Speaker 2: and they're trying to convey their their problems in school

1900
01:50:45,360 --> 01:50:48,479
Speaker 2: or whatever it is that's never happened. I really hope

1901
01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:51,800
Speaker 2: my kid doesn't ever spit in someone's eye. But but

1902
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:55,680
Speaker 2: there have been so many moments back home where that

1903
01:50:55,800 --> 01:51:01,360
Speaker 2: accountability is both a relief and like a very nurturing,

1904
01:51:02,360 --> 01:51:06,360
Speaker 2: like almost a hug from a mother feeling, but also

1905
01:51:06,439 --> 01:51:10,519
Speaker 2: can be kind of crushing and isolating if you feel

1906
01:51:10,560 --> 01:51:14,280
Speaker 2: like your belief system or the things that you want

1907
01:51:14,360 --> 01:51:17,639
Speaker 2: for your family, or the culture that you're hungry for

1908
01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:22,160
Speaker 2: that doesn't exist in a small town is not only

1909
01:51:22,280 --> 01:51:27,000
Speaker 2: inappropriate but actually just kind of rude and uppity and crass.

1910
01:51:27,040 --> 01:51:30,160
Speaker 2: And you know. So it's been hard for me talking

1911
01:51:30,160 --> 01:51:34,520
Speaker 2: about this record in Vermont because I have this duality

1912
01:51:34,680 --> 01:51:37,360
Speaker 2: of the feeling of coming home being such a beautiful

1913
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:41,479
Speaker 2: place and somewhere that I want to foster good things

1914
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:44,920
Speaker 2: for and help elevate and escalate into a place of

1915
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:48,920
Speaker 2: exactly what I remember about loving it, but also even

1916
01:51:48,960 --> 01:51:53,639
Speaker 2: more but also pining for that society and that culture

1917
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:57,600
Speaker 2: and that sunshine and that you know, California dream and

1918
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:01,080
Speaker 2: Joni Mitchell happy ending that I that I always thought

1919
01:52:01,200 --> 01:52:04,240
Speaker 2: I was going to live out. So it's been a

1920
01:52:04,280 --> 01:52:07,720
Speaker 2: really interesting thing, the small town conversation, and that you

1921
01:52:07,760 --> 01:52:11,320
Speaker 2: bring it up exactly now, because I, you know, I'm

1922
01:52:11,400 --> 01:52:13,920
Speaker 2: proud to be from a small town. I'm proud to

1923
01:52:14,040 --> 01:52:16,360
Speaker 2: know all the ins and outs. I kind of like

1924
01:52:16,479 --> 01:52:20,599
Speaker 2: the gossip by dirt and just the other day Kevin Streeter,

1925
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:24,600
Speaker 2: who poured the foundation for our concrete here at the

1926
01:52:24,600 --> 01:52:28,920
Speaker 2: barn one at thunder Road, and he's like kicking ass

1927
01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:32,200
Speaker 2: race car driving guide. I'm like, whoa see now, that's

1928
01:52:32,280 --> 01:52:35,839
Speaker 2: like some magical small town stuff that made me proud

1929
01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:39,639
Speaker 2: to be from my town, Little Kevin Streeter from Waitsfield, Vermont.

1930
01:52:39,680 --> 01:52:42,160
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, you know, it's just it's cool

1931
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:45,160
Speaker 2: when when you can exist in both worlds and have

1932
01:52:45,280 --> 01:52:48,479
Speaker 2: seen things from both sides, it does change the way

1933
01:52:48,520 --> 01:52:49,640
Speaker 2: that you look at things.

1934
01:52:49,640 --> 01:52:51,920
Speaker 1: That's for sure. I Mean I spend a lot of

1935
01:52:51,960 --> 01:52:55,760
Speaker 1: time in small towns, which most people who pontificate have not,

1936
01:52:56,720 --> 01:53:01,799
Speaker 1: and I find, you know, you're branded very early window

1937
01:53:02,400 --> 01:53:05,120
Speaker 1: and then you're that person, you know. I was watching

1938
01:53:05,160 --> 01:53:08,600
Speaker 1: this show English show on streaming the other day on

1939
01:53:08,640 --> 01:53:13,080
Speaker 1: Amazon called Pure and the woman comes from Scotland and

1940
01:53:13,240 --> 01:53:15,519
Speaker 1: she's all uptight about who she is, and the person says,

1941
01:53:15,560 --> 01:53:17,320
Speaker 1: you're in London now, no one gives a shit. That's

1942
01:53:17,320 --> 01:53:20,400
Speaker 1: what I love about Lay. Everybody's so into their own trip.

1943
01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:22,559
Speaker 1: You could be whoever you want to be because they

1944
01:53:22,600 --> 01:53:24,240
Speaker 1: don't care. Yeah.

1945
01:53:24,320 --> 01:53:27,759
Speaker 2: I think that's the part about it that I think

1946
01:53:27,880 --> 01:53:31,479
Speaker 2: maybe it's the Benjamin Button approach to life, where I'm

1947
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,639
Speaker 2: getting younger and more inappropriate in my old age. But

1948
01:53:34,680 --> 01:53:37,519
Speaker 2: there's not as much room for that here as there

1949
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:40,479
Speaker 2: is in La But and I don't know the show

1950
01:53:40,479 --> 01:53:42,120
Speaker 2: pure but thank you for telling me about that, because

1951
01:53:42,120 --> 01:53:44,000
Speaker 2: I'm looking for a new show to watch right now

1952
01:53:44,040 --> 01:53:45,880
Speaker 2: for the tour bus. So I'm excited to get it.

1953
01:53:46,000 --> 01:53:47,559
Speaker 1: Well, well, just I was going to end it, but

1954
01:53:47,640 --> 01:53:50,080
Speaker 1: just before there. I wouldn't put that at the top

1955
01:53:50,120 --> 01:53:52,439
Speaker 1: of your list, but it's very interesting. Okay, all right,

1956
01:53:53,360 --> 01:53:55,559
Speaker 1: what have you watched that was good?

1957
01:53:56,439 --> 01:53:59,559
Speaker 2: Oh my god? I mean Nine Perfect Strangers was one

1958
01:53:59,600 --> 01:54:03,920
Speaker 2: that kind of blew my fucking head off last year. Obviously,

1959
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:08,760
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of anything that's based in the seventies.

1960
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:10,960
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's obvious to people who don't

1961
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:13,719
Speaker 2: know my music or what I'm into, but I really, really,

1962
01:54:13,760 --> 01:54:19,840
Speaker 2: really love seventies rock, funk, soul, gospel, disco. Just take

1963
01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:22,400
Speaker 2: me there, Just take me the fuck there. So The

1964
01:54:22,479 --> 01:54:26,840
Speaker 2: Serpent was the show that I really enjoyed. I love

1965
01:54:27,200 --> 01:54:30,120
Speaker 2: the comedic series. I think you should leave. I think

1966
01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:32,800
Speaker 2: it's some of the most soulful comedy in the world.

1967
01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:41,440
Speaker 2: And the performances, they're wonderful, Umbrella Academy, love God, there's

1968
01:54:41,480 --> 01:54:44,680
Speaker 2: so many I've really dived deep. I just finished The

1969
01:54:44,760 --> 01:54:48,480
Speaker 2: Righteous Gemstones. And of course Danny McBride is someone I

1970
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 2: got the lovely chance to bump into many many times,

1971
01:54:52,600 --> 01:54:56,720
Speaker 2: but most prominently when I was opening for the Rolling Stones.

1972
01:54:56,840 --> 01:54:59,560
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm a cool guy.

1973
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:02,200
Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly what I said to him, but

1974
01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:05,040
Speaker 2: it could have been dorky. It didn't matter. I was

1975
01:55:05,200 --> 01:55:09,040
Speaker 2: in like a silver flapper dress and I was singing

1976
01:55:09,080 --> 01:55:11,600
Speaker 2: on stage with mc jagger, so it really didn't matter.

1977
01:55:11,720 --> 01:55:14,720
Speaker 1: Okay, let's take that off. Let's take big Jagger off

1978
01:55:14,840 --> 01:55:18,120
Speaker 1: the table. It's a thing after itself. What's your number

1979
01:55:18,240 --> 01:55:20,680
Speaker 1: two or other than mc jagger, your number one?

1980
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:25,000
Speaker 2: Pinch me moment singing I mean singing with Robert Plant,

1981
01:55:25,160 --> 01:55:28,720
Speaker 2: Patty Griffin, Emmy Lou Harris and Bonnie Rait on stage

1982
01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:30,840
Speaker 2: at the Love Rocks event. And New York goes right

1983
01:55:30,920 --> 01:55:34,240
Speaker 2: up there singing with Roger Waters and Mavis Staples and

1984
01:55:34,320 --> 01:55:37,480
Speaker 2: Lucinda Williams and John Mayer and Jim James at the

1985
01:55:37,600 --> 01:55:42,960
Speaker 2: levon Helm event. And you know there's I mean, I

1986
01:55:43,040 --> 01:55:45,680
Speaker 2: think that I do believe the strength and numbers pinch

1987
01:55:45,800 --> 01:55:50,080
Speaker 2: me thing is kind of harder to quantify because there's

1988
01:55:50,160 --> 01:55:52,560
Speaker 2: so many names and each one will tick a box

1989
01:55:52,640 --> 01:55:55,840
Speaker 2: for other people, so they have this associative thing. But

1990
01:55:55,960 --> 01:55:58,720
Speaker 2: the pinch me moment that I think means the most

1991
01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:04,120
Speaker 2: to me is my music festival. You know, like being

1992
01:56:04,200 --> 01:56:07,360
Speaker 2: up on stage watching other bands and knowing that I

1993
01:56:07,560 --> 01:56:14,240
Speaker 2: created something that not only has an enduring spirit beyond

1994
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:18,680
Speaker 2: just that day, but that these bands that are here

1995
01:56:18,800 --> 01:56:21,919
Speaker 2: playing wouldn't have come to Vermont or come to the waterfront.

1996
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:25,120
Speaker 2: Grandpoint North is the festival I'm talking about the festival

1997
01:56:25,160 --> 01:56:29,760
Speaker 2: that I developed with Matt Burr, my partner in Crime

1998
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:33,520
Speaker 2: on the Road and Beyond, and my first husband and

1999
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:37,400
Speaker 2: Alex Cruthers from Higher Ground. That whole experience of really

2000
01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:40,040
Speaker 2: dreaming up and envisioning what it could be and then

2001
01:56:40,120 --> 01:56:47,000
Speaker 2: watching it come to life was Yeah, the best feeling

2002
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:50,360
Speaker 2: I've ever had, other than giving birth to my son,

2003
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:54,200
Speaker 2: you know, just knowing that I was able to force

2004
01:56:54,920 --> 01:56:59,600
Speaker 2: something that seemed completely impossible into being and that it

2005
01:56:59,800 --> 01:57:03,360
Speaker 2: was going to be celebrating its tenth anniversary this year.

2006
01:57:03,920 --> 01:57:05,440
Speaker 1: Well, well was it coming back?

2007
01:57:06,400 --> 01:57:10,080
Speaker 2: I hope so, babe, I mean, listen, this is this

2008
01:57:10,280 --> 01:57:13,360
Speaker 2: is the long journey of the music festival business, which

2009
01:57:13,400 --> 01:57:16,200
Speaker 2: is I think a whole other that might take a

2010
01:57:16,240 --> 01:57:16,680
Speaker 2: whole other.

2011
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:20,360
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll leave it at that grace. You've been very

2012
01:57:20,560 --> 01:57:22,880
Speaker 1: open and honest. I want to thank you so much

2013
01:57:22,960 --> 01:57:24,720
Speaker 1: for taking the time with my audience.

2014
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:27,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I love the show. I listened to it all

2015
01:57:27,960 --> 01:57:30,080
Speaker 2: the time. I tried so hard not to geek out

2016
01:57:30,120 --> 01:57:33,200
Speaker 2: and reference a bunch of episodes because you're asking me

2017
01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:35,120
Speaker 2: what shows I watch? I'm like, well, what about what

2018
01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:38,320
Speaker 2: shows I listened to? Thank you for having me on.

2019
01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:41,040
Speaker 2: I was so delighted to be able to be here

2020
01:57:41,080 --> 01:57:42,200
Speaker 2: and have this conversation with you.

2021
01:57:42,360 --> 01:57:44,840
Speaker 1: As I say, you were great, no holds barred. It

2022
01:57:45,000 --> 01:57:46,840
Speaker 1: was the real you. I really want to thank you

2023
01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:50,560
Speaker 1: untill next time. This is Bob left set

2024
01:58:12,680 --> 01:58:12,720
Speaker 2: S