WEBVTT - Episode 40: The Punisher` 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.440 Well, well, well we are back. We are back from 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.200 our our holiday hiatus. We're ready to hit you with 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:22.959 another set of clips, so get ready. We're not I forgot. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:27.160 It's so funny listening back to those because we were babies. No, 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:31.160 it was just like literally earlier this year. It's crazy 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.159 that it hasn't been a year. It has not been 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.599 here yet, which may be crazy. It's been in your 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.400 for culture kings now, but we still got it. I 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.560 think baptism by fire whatever it is, just thrown to 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.920 the did it we did? Yeah, we're we're here. We're back, 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.280 and we're talking about The Punisher. Wait, no, what is 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:53.360 the show? If he said the show, welcome to Nerdificent 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.320 I am if you and that other delicious voice that 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.000 sounds weird want to say, but I'm gonna stick with 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:05.360 that other delicious voice. You is Danny Fernandez. And uh, 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.080 we are talking about The Punisher because The Punisher has 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.440 a new has season two dropping on Netflix this weekend. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:13.920 This is not an ad for them at all, but please, 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:15.920 if you would like to comp our Netflix, it's like 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.360 five dollars. Look, you know, I'm down with it because 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.360 someone I don't know if you saw that tweet where 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.839 someone was like, Hey, I'm getting ready to go see 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.360 d v Z Browley and I have never seen a 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.920 dragon Ball Z ever. So I got to listen to 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.679 the dragon Ball episode and it got me up to speed, 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.119 and I'm like, great, but what a way to jump 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:38.720 in from just early dragon Ball dragon Ball Z and 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.280 go straight into Browley. You're you're in for a real treat, 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.000 and it's gonna be to go back from that if 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:45.960 I think I've told you. But people get mad because 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:47.560 like my friends will be like, where can I where 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:49.200 should I start? I'm like, well you could, you know, 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.880 you could do Kai or you could dragon Ball Z 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.040 Kai or you could and people like no, they have 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.720 to go from the beginning. Goku was a big you know, 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:58.760 it's like with dragon Ball, and like, well, you're not 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.320 gonna get people. I mean I think you could. Technically 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.360 even just watching you get you caught up. All the 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.520 important parts of dragon Ball are recapped in Z. You 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.400 can start with Z if you want to, and Z 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.800 is pretty much where the thick newest cannon is, where 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:19.359 the adults are, and where vegeta vegeta doesn't exist. Um, 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.040 so we we have a guest who as an expert 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.480 on The Punisher and on many things. He has a show, 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:29.960 UM Collider Heroes over at Collider, Mr Koy, Jon Drow, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.040 How's hey, how's it going? Gita is where dragon Ball 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.639 is hurt? For me, it's over nine thousand as the 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.800 beginning of dragon Ball before that is something, but is 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.000 really This is why I brought you on here, and 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:43.720 because last year when The Punisher came out on Netflix, 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:48.280 we were messaging each other so much. We have a 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:53.920 love of John Burnthal and UM and that show. Yeah, 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.200 we would just send each other memes like I'm so 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.800 glad I had somebody else at like one am when 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.000 I was watching the show to send it to, because 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.359 nobody else in my life cared as much. We always 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.000 responded so quickly, like somehow we were both always watching 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.799 Punisher at the same time, like it's a full show, 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.280 but sometimes always like two in the morning, John burn Tall, Yeah, 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.080 I'll respond to this, and I was always ready with 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.600 new ones. I think I sent you a picture like 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.560 a John burn Thall like Punisher toy in the Christmas 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.960 tree or something. And then it turned into Tom Hardy 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.079 holding puppies because the poppy transition, because two rugged men 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.720 with their dogs. There is an entire Instagram that's just 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.919 Tom Hardy holding puppies. I show as many people that 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:34.840 as I can. I think it's really important for the culture. 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.800 I think that the comic society needs to know. Let 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.480 me tell you that this was my official introduction kind 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.040 of to the I mean the Punisher. I think I 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:47.640 had seen the two thousand and four films that when 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.600 it came Jane Yes with Thomas Jane, which we'll get into, 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:55.440 but I um, I basically was introduced to him really 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.240 in uh In when he showed up in Daredevil on Netflix, 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.560 and and it made me like John Burnthal so much 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:04.920 that I went back and watched The Walking Dead, which 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.360 I had never seen, just because I liked him. That's 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.480 that's start of the opposite of most people. I discovered 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.360 Parks and Wreck because I enjoyed nick A from in 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.080 the author. Yeah. I seen Parks and I was like, 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.040 this guy writes some good books. Who's this? I mean, 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.800 what's really funny is I've done because um coy you 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.880 and if you have both competed on screen Junkies and stuff, 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.159 and I have also competed on screen Junkies and um 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.960 one for series that I don't even watch, which I 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:32.840 watched now, but like it's just because it's so in 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.800 the zeitguys and I live online that I wasn't watching 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:37.719 Game of Thrones, and I won my Game of Thrones 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.279 around against people that actually did just because I know 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.080 all the memes and the jokes. And that was the 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.160 same with The Walking Dead, where I never really had 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.600 to watch it to know what was going on. And 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:48.800 there's an art to arguing about pop culture that a 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:50.680 lot of people don't realize. You need to know how 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:52.919 to shape things, like I thought both of you and 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:57.680 both like you did you both, and we're all still 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:01.680 friends here on purpose. See that's what That's what happens 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.560 when you fight good. It's an honor. So I've I 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.839 discovered Punisher in the nineties with the Spiderman animated series, 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.880 so I was like five or seven, I think I started, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.320 so i'd have been like seven years old, and Punisher 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.320 was one of those characters that didn't make sense in 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:19.360 that show at all because you couldn't really shoot guns. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.520 Everything was lasers, so they introduced a Punisher without guns. 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.680 So he's always been a fascinating character to me because 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.400 he's the epitome of it depends on the writer, and 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.640 the character can be the thinnest character on the earth, 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.200 or it can be John Burnhall. And what's really impressive 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:34.760 is this generation only knows Punishers, this really well written 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.560 character because people discovered him like you, whereas he's a 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.680 garbage character about half of his run, like he's a 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:45.520 very poorly written like gun toting. Yeah, there's a reason 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.080 that symbol represents a lot of parts of the country 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.599 we don't need to represent. So it's a really interesting 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:53.880 character because he can be as nuanced as John Burnhall, 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.000 but he can also be a guy who shoots big 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.200 and flexies. He was a product of that and like 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.880 nineties Marvel, you know where where it's or not even 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.360 nineties popular nineties comic book in general, when it's like, 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.880 let's go crazy and just like that's the Punisher, everyone 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.280 outside of the Netflix era is aware of where it's like, 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.960 I'm the guy who's gonna shoot him up, and it's 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.920 in big guns and leather and straps and all the 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.520 belts and all the pockets on the belts and no hands, 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.920 ankle gun, ankle knife, ankle pouch. What's in there? More 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.800 guns and then they were. But that's a fun thing, 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.760 and it's something I want to kind of even kind 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.279 of park on for a hot second, just in comics 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.520 where it's funny how it really is the writer. A 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.000 writer can really take a comic book or franchise you 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.320 really don't care about and really make you super interested, 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.640 Like I think Jeff Lobes Red Hulk run is. You know, 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.960 I could not have cared about Red Hulk until Jeff 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:57.320 Lobes started writing for it, or you know, or anything. 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.800 Bendes has his finger everything. Ben Sachs, I'm like, I'll 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.799 at least try it. Yeah, brew baker Is brings things 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:07.479 a flavor to things that it's just always so fun 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:11.760 to check out. So if you read a comic and 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.840 you're like, oh, I do not like this character, but 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.800 there's a writer who maybe wrote a comic that you 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.840 do like, definitely check out that character written by that 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.000 comic if that is available, because that might change your opinion. 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.720 Like Jerry Dugan, Brian Possana on Deadpool is what I 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.440 send everyone too, because Deadpool is often written poorly as well, 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.800 and if you can find the right like they're both comedians, 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.679 Brian past is literally a stand up, so turning people 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.600 onto that voice. Then sometimes you learn to like characters 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.000 enough you can forgive other things, and I think Punisher 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.120 is a great example of that. The Netflix show is 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.400 so good you can forgive other things. Yeah, sure, like 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.200 War Journal, but when you've watched it, after watching Punish, 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:53.000 you're like John Burnthal, this comic is awesome. Yeah. So 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.240 let's get into who the Punisher is. Francis Oh, I 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.840 love that. That's his real name. Francis Frank guess so 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.080 Um is a fictional character appearing in American comic books 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.680 published by Marvel So. The character was created by Gary 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:11.520 Conway and artist John Room made a senior and Ross Andrew, 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.680 with publisher Stan Lee green lighting the name. The Punisher 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.720 made his first appearance in The Amazing Spider Man number 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:23.240 one nine cover dated February nineteen seventy four. So that 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.800 issue is the iconic cover and it's so expensive. It's 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.840 one of the I have fifty nine Spider Man's left, 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.760 and I have every run of every title in history, 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:32.360 and this is one of the fifty. Need because I 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.400 wanted a good condition. Somebody send it to But it's 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.360 it's amazing how this has stood the test of time 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.040 because it's one of the most recent issues. I need, 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:40.640 I need, like number one and stuff. But then one 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.160 twenty nine is this coveted issue because it's a beautiful 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.760 yellow cover. It's him with the crosshairs on Spider Man, 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:48.559 and he was meant to be a one off villain. 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:51.079 He didn't show up again UNTILSS You Won thirty five. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.360 The Punisher's second appearance is one thirty five, which means 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.880 that's six months later because back then you'd have to 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.040 wait to get the letters back from the fans and 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.600 then decided to use the character. Yeah, he was supposed 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.000 to be just the flash in the pan. This is 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.600 the one note villain, and then the fans loved him. 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:07.319 One thirty five came back and it was then like 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:08.800 two or three years he had his own little mini 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.240 So he's been beloved from the beginning because he's so 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.400 different from Marvel usually puts out. There's not a lot 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.680 of gun toting vigilante anti heroes there are now, but 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:19.600 this was a new thing. But this was also the 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.199 time of the mob like coming up, you know, and 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:27.440 he is an Italian American vigilanti. Yeah, so it is 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.520 um interesting. I feel like that that like the same 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:33.240 thing that you guys were talking about with the nineties, 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.160 because the eighties nineties we had like because he's also 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.200 a war veteran, so we had like g I. Joe 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:42.280 was really big back then those toys. And also he 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.920 was just kind of starkly different. You know, you had 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.680 all these heroes who were like super do get dogs, 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.439 and this is a guy who like doesn't mind murdering, kidnapping, 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:56.359 using extortion, coercion, threats of violence, and torture to basically 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.640 fight crime. So there's something a whole new flavor. It 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.160 was like, oh yeah, that's a cool way to fight crime. 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:04.680 And from a visual standpoint, you throw him again Spider Man, 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.000 a red and blue spanbex clad heroes like the most 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:11.040 and then you've got this guy in black and white 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.280 with a pseudo mullet and a broken nose, Like he 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.280 looks like the opposite of Spiderman every way. And I 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.040 think that was a lot of his appeal was this 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:20.640 was an age of leaving the Silver Age going into 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:22.600 Golden Age. I think the Silver Age had just ended 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.000 up like Issue two when Gwen Stacy died, that effectively 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:27.600 into the Silver Age of comics. To the point that 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.720 comics change size, which is fascinating, Like it was less 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.160 than a year earlier that comics had physically changed how 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.719 they were made. And so he's coming up into the 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.320 Golden age of comics, post silver Age, and it is 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:40.480 the crime era of comic books. You've got like the 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.160 gangster books you've got you know, hammer Head was really 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.600 important and big. Then you've got the Tombstone. You've got 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.440 all these mafia so characters, and then you've got a 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.080 guy that takes them out the same way they dish 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.720 it out, and that's fascinating for comic books. Yeah, what 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:54.000 I was gonna say is when he said he has 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.600 a broken nose, that it's funny they picked John Burnhall 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.480 because John Burnhall has said that he's broken his nose 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.600 fourteen times. I remember once I was listening to A 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:03.160 used to get in a lot of fights, which was 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.360 funny because I watched him. He is an amazing actor. 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.520 He actually went to acting school in Russia. He got 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.080 accepted and went over there and said it really changed 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.200 his life. And it's so fascinating listening to him because 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.600 I was like, oh, I would never date you because 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:20.240 when I see him, know when I see him as 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:21.760 an actor, I'm like, oh my gosh, Like I'm in 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:23.880 love with him. Granted he's married and has three kids, 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:25.760 but like, and then when I hear him listening. When 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:27.240 I listened to him and he talked about how many 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.520 fights he would get in, how alpha he was like 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.040 you know all of that, I'm like, oh, yeah, we 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:37.000 never would have made it. That is not my type. 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.480 Just like punch and getting fights all the time over there, 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.080 And I'm gonna show him what's you're staring at your 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.040 but well, he's gonna be steering him a fist. But 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.520 what I find fascinating John Burnthal in particular is he 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.680 looks more like Punisher than anyone should. Like his nose 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.760 is broken in the same spots, his forehead is the 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.480 same ratio, Like he actually looks like John im to 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.960 Senor was like, one day, well you know this boy. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.720 You know what's so funny is that he was killed 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:04.959 off on The Walking Dead, which this isn't a spoiler. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.040 This has been out for like what seven years or something, 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.560 and he's set and that was kind of like, you know, 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.520 that was that was a huge show for him. He 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:13.520 was in it for two seasons and and but then 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.520 he later said if he hadn't been killed off, he 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.400 wouldn't have been the Punisher, Like he wouldn't have gotten that. 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.320 So that is so cool to think of it that 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.480 way when sometimes you think like this is oh my gosh, 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.160 I just lost my job, you know, on the biggest 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.200 show ever, and then it's like, oh no, now you 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.880 have your own series and it's one of the biggest 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.719 shows ever. So that's really cool. And he wasn't on 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.880 my radar. Sorry, he wasn't on my radar for Punisher. 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.840 He wasn't like in my fan cast. He wasn't someone 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:38.560 I was like he could play. And then once they 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:39.720 cast and I was like, wait, how did I not 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.000 see the guy that looks just like Punisher? And that's 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:43.720 what I was gonna say is he was one of 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.040 the very few people that when they cast, everyone was 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:50.280 like yeah. Like usually when someone's cast is like what no, 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.520 and it's like you have to get used to it, 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.840 and there's like debates and some people like it, some 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.520 people don't. But this was the one casting where people 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.920 were like, yep, I would say the same for because 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.280 we were talking earlier before we started recording about hell 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.720 Boy when David Harbor was announced as hell Boy, I 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.120 was like, yep, yep, I see that. And both of 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.680 those are tall orders because their legacy characters. Ron Hellman 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.480 just was the Hellboy three just now didn't exist like 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.720 it was due to shoot and be a movie. So 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.040 it's not like Ron Perlman had a retirement the end 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.160 of hell Boy Too spoiler alert from eight years ago. 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.920 She's pregnant. So Ron Perlman was supposed to be Hellboy again. 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:25.920 So for us to accept David Harbor so quickly, and 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:27.959 then with John Bernthal to go from you know your 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:31.439 Dolph Lounger and uh to Ray Wins don't no note 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.839 Ray the War like the Alexander did oh yes, um, 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.000 and then Tom Jane. We've had so many different Punishers, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.120 so it's really hard for an actor that is, you know, 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.800 Walking Dead TV actor to suddenly be accepted so quickly. 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.120 But he really was. I totally agree. Yeah, it was 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.120 so good. Yeah. The backstory of Punisher is you know, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.200 another one of those uh good old classic uh you 0:13:54.240 --> 0:14:00.160 know body someone's whole family tree type things. So you 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.520 basically his wife and two kids were killed by the 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.720 mob for witnessing a murder in New York City Central 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.640 Park and then The Punisher waged though one man war 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.600 on the mob and all violent criminals in general because 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.080 of this, and he's like, the people who are bad 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.680 have to pay. And his family's killers were obviously the 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.160 first to be murked by the Punisher, and uh, you know, 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.280 he definitely had that Liam Neeson skill set where he's like, 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:27.520 you know, I went to war, so I have a 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.160 specific set of skills. You know, he was a he 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.440 was a veteran of the United States Marine Corps. He 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.720 was a scout sniper, and he you know, he was 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.920 skilled in hand to hand combat, guerrilla warfare and marksmanship. 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.920 You know, I wanted to say whenever I get asked 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.520 on the DC side what I was on a panel, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.040 and they'll ask me who my favorite DC villain is, 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.800 and I always say Batman because he is a villain, 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.880 because he's a vigilante. And no one ever likes that answer, 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.440 but it's true. And um, the Punisher, it's really interesting 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.040 because he is also a vigilan. He that's trying to 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.480 avenge his family's death. They're not as different as people think. Granted, 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.000 the Punisher's run in this comic book series is much 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.160 more violent, I would say, than Batman, but they both 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.640 have killed in comics, so a hero doesn't look up 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.360 the weaknesses of his teammates. Yeah, Batman always is ready 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.000 to take out the entire justice. That's not a heroic 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.280 smart but it's not heroic. But I'm you're taking the 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.920 law into your own hands. That is technically a criminal, 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.320 and that is technically a villain, depending on whose viewpoint 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.440 you're looking at. So anyways, that's just my point. If 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.440 anyone ever asked who your favorite your favorite villain DC 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.360 villain is, you can tell them Batman and I agree 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.240 with Punsure being a parallel because oftentimes Cap and Punish 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.320 her butt heads directly because Cap represents ultimate good and 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.840 Punisher represents not ultimately bad, but bad that has a wiggle. 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.560 There's a gray area of that that Cap hates because 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.880 I think Cap sees himself and Punisher a lot and 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.440 like it's what he wants to do, yes, yeah, that 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.360 he can't he can not do. Yeah yeah. And then 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.760 of course Punish respects Cap because Cap is the ultimate 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.880 soldier and he's trying to be a soldier, except he 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.400 kills people. So it's a really cool parallel. I really 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.640 love the interactions between Punisher and Cap and it's really interesting. 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:11.280 I will probably get into this little later on. But 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.440 in Ultimate Comics, which is the basis of the movies 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.560 you love, the Ultimate Comics is the blueprint for the 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.080 m c U. If you read anything, start with Ultimate Spiderman. 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.080 It will change your life, and then ten years later 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:23.840 you'll meet Miles Morales in your life will change again. 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.920 You're welcome. But Ultimate Punisher kills Spider Man. Ultimate Punisher 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.240 shoots at Cap, Spider Man gets in the way, and 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.760 then Spiderman's just fought the Green Goblin. The death of 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:35.680 Peter Parker and the comics is insane. But if you 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.520 look at it, the killing blow is Punisher. He's a 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:40.720 bad guy, and people don't talk about that when we're 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.120 talk about the Punishy. He killed Spider Man. Yeah, but 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.360 you know as much as you're saying that, the police 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.640 try to kill Spider Man. So in the police I 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.520 don't think would be seen. I mean, we would see 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.200 it as audiences if we watched the police officer kill 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.600 Spider Man. But like the police don't see they see 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.880 another vigilante who is essentially breaking the law. So I 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.200 just that's what I find really fascinating about all of 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.960 this is that it's told the Punisher to Spider Man 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.679 is a villain, but when we see him in his 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.000 own comic, and we see him now in the Netflix series, 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:13.320 we're rooting for him to survive. So, like we started 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:14.920 with it, it depends on who's writing it whether or 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.720 not they play that nuance well. So, um, Gary Conway 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.160 was inspired by The Executioner, which is a popular book 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.480 series created by author Don Pendleton, in which a Vietnam 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:29.000 veteran Mack Boland becomes a serial killer of criminals after 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.879 the mafia related death of death of his family. So 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.560 that is essentially the Punisher's origin story. Uh. Conway described 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.879 the inspiration in an interview from nineteen seven, quote, I 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.960 was fascinated by the Don Pendleton Executioner character, which was 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.320 fairly popular at the time, and I wanted to do 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.439 something that was inspired by that, although not to my 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.960 mind a copy of it. And while I was doing 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.119 the Jackal storyline, the opportunity came for a character who 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.639 would be used by the Jackal to make Spider Man's 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:01.200 life miserable, and the Punisher seemed to fit. Yeah. Um, 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:05.680 and then Conway. He also helped design the character's distinctive costume. UH. 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.720 In two thousand two, he said, in the seventies, when 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.320 I was writing comics at d C and Marvel, I 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.399 made a practice to sketch my own ideas for the 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.440 costumes of new characters, heroes and villains, which I offered 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.960 to the artists as crude suggestions for representing the image 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.359 I had in mine. I had done it that would 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.640 punish her at Marvel, And it's it's interesting to hear 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.280 that because I imagine if I because you know, um, 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.800 there's there there seemed to be making a lot of 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:35.640 room for comics to write UH comics, and I've already 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.639 spoken to a few people to try and get in 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.720 that lane, and I imagine that that's how I would 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.439 kind of do for certain things that I'm like, I 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.600 want this to look. So it's cool to see that, 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.719 like someone's been doing that, and I imagine that you know, 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.239 that would have happened, but it's cool to see like 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:57.399 that it is not that frowned upon. Hopefully you know, 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.960 who knows what's happening now. Yeah, So then that ran 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.760 through the seventies and eighties, and then in nineteen nine five, 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.080 Marvel canceled all three ongoing Punisher series due to poor sales. 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:11.640 That was was that that was also just a hard 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.800 time in comics, in general comics, So in nineteen nine 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.399 five Marvel had to sell their characters. So the reason 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.200 that X Men is owned by Fox, the reason we 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.080 can't get Silver Surfer, Fantastic four, the reason we don't 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.359 know who owns nay More half the time is back 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.000 then they were trying to keep their lights on and 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.119 no one wanted to buy Iron Man because he was 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:30.879