1
00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,640
Speaker 1: Welcome back to our mini series Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.

2
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,280
Speaker 1: In the time of COVID. You know, COVID nineteen has

3
00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,960
Speaker 1: wrecked havoc across the globe. Countless lives have already been

4
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,400
Speaker 1: lost this unprecedented worldwide economic devastation, and the Internet is

5
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,360
Speaker 1: full of misinformation that has so many people in disagreement

6
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,239
Speaker 1: about what is real and what's the best path back

7
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 1: to normalcy and why does so many plans seem to

8
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,559
Speaker 1: involve callously risking or even losing so many more lives.

9
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,840
Speaker 1: All of this while we're living with the restricted movement, isolation,

10
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,319
Speaker 1: and economic anxiety, to say the least, with so many

11
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 1: ethical and philosophical questions looming in the zeitgeist, I can't

12
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,639
Speaker 1: think of a better member of our wrongfully convicted community

13
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 1: to guide us through this tough time. So this week

14
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 1: we'll talk to a man along with four other young

15
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 1: teenage boys, which vilified and demonized in the media. Donald

16
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,280
Speaker 1: Trump infamously and wrongly took out full page ads in

17
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,840
Speaker 1: the newspaper back then to call for the reinstatement of

18
00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,880
Speaker 1: the death penalty just so these kids could be executed

19
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,960
Speaker 1: for a crime they didn't commit. They were barely teenagers

20
00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 1: when they were lied to by authorities and pitted against

21
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,520
Speaker 1: each other to give false confessions, and ultimately they were

22
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,200
Speaker 1: sentenced to many long years behind bars, only to have

23
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 1: about a decade later, the man who committed the horrific

24
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,320
Speaker 1: crime at the center of the media law enforcements circus,

25
00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 1: Matthias Reyis confess, thereby clearing the names once and for

26
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,319
Speaker 1: all of the Central Park five, now known as the

27
00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:45,440
Speaker 1: Exonerated Five. Now, he tells us about how community living

28
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,440
Speaker 1: in his mind, doing things that add value to his

29
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: life and the life of others, Realizing his purpose through

30
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 1: the pain, and his underlying faith were and are the

31
00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 1: keys to his survival. You can hear his story of

32
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,560
Speaker 1: triumph over tragedy in episode eight of season six, as

33
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,840
Speaker 1: well as in the interview with one of his co defendants,

34
00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,200
Speaker 1: Raymond Santana, in the very first episode of season one

35
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,000
Speaker 1: of this podcast. His story is told in the Netflix

36
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,400
Speaker 1: documentary series When They See Us, and he's the author

37
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 1: of Words of a Man as well as being a

38
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 1: prolific public speaker. I'm very proud to call him my friend.

39
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,800
Speaker 1: Doctor Yusuf Salaam. I'm coping in the time of COVID.

40
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,680
Speaker 1: Today we have a doctor in the house, convicted man

41
00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,720
Speaker 1: named doctor Yusuf Salam, And well, welcome back.

42
00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,080
Speaker 2: Oh, it is absolutely a pleasure. Thank you for having

43
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:44,519
Speaker 2: me again.

44
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,800
Speaker 1: Well, it's been a whirlwind since we last spoke, you know,

45
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,400
Speaker 1: aside from the world going completely haywire and this, you know,

46
00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,760
Speaker 1: coronavirus taking over the news and our consciousness and how

47
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 1: are you and your family doing right now?

48
00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,639
Speaker 2: Everybody's actually okay. So we're in different places in the country,

49
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,680
Speaker 2: of course, some in the south, some in the West coast,

50
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 2: a lot in New York where the epicenter is. Hopefully

51
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,760
Speaker 2: things are beginning to subside a bit. I've definitely lost

52
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,040
Speaker 2: some people that I know. It's a very scary time

53
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,400
Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, but we just got to hold on

54
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 2: to the faith that we have so that we know

55
00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,079
Speaker 2: that we won't leave here until our mission is complete.

56
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:29,720
Speaker 2: And I think that that's the most important thing.

57
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,960
Speaker 1: And speaking of your mission, since you appeared on the show,

58
00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,440
Speaker 1: of course, the incredible documentary about the Central Park five

59
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,840
Speaker 1: When They See Us was released to great critical acclaim

60
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,960
Speaker 1: as well as to I think a wonderful response from

61
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,200
Speaker 1: the audience. So how has that changed your life? If

62
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 1: it has.

63
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,360
Speaker 2: You know, it's been a dramatic upshift in the attention

64
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,600
Speaker 2: that we have and also the platform that we have

65
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,920
Speaker 2: in the world in terms of global recognition, and people

66
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 2: always reach out to us for support. It's been great

67
00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 2: to find purpose through the pain. Since the movie has

68
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,560
Speaker 2: been made. You look at our social media, for one,

69
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,919
Speaker 2: we went from probably under ten thousand followers all of

70
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 2: us to over three hundred thousand followers for most of us.

71
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,320
Speaker 2: And of course you look at Corey Wise's following and

72
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 2: he's over five hundred thousand people. It's tremendous. That reach

73
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,280
Speaker 2: is great and it's a blessing for us, of course,

74
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 2: because we do have something to say. We do have

75
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,080
Speaker 2: something to share, you know, especially when it comes to

76
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,280
Speaker 2: you know, human rights as it relates to prisoners, and

77
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,839
Speaker 2: you know, especially now in the age of COVID nineteen

78
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,160
Speaker 2: as it relates to prisoners as well.

79
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,440
Speaker 1: And have you in touch with the other guys and

80
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,000
Speaker 1: how are they holding up during this crisis.

81
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've been in touch. Everybody's holding up as best

82
00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,400
Speaker 2: they can. I know Raymond's fiance's father have went through

83
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,200
Speaker 2: about of COVID nineteen came out on the other end

84
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,320
Speaker 2: and that's always a great thing to have survived.

85
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:06,159
Speaker 1: You know.

86
00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:11,839
Speaker 2: Just a side note, Raymond's newfound love and life is encouraging.

87
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,200
Speaker 2: You Just look at the peace and happiness in his face.

88
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I see him on Instagram and he looks

89
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,880
Speaker 1: like he's on top of the world. You know, he's

90
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,720
Speaker 1: got that. It looks like he's in love and that

91
00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:22,240
Speaker 1: makes me.

92
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 2: Very happy, you know, yes, indeed.

93
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,040
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about the current situation because

94
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,599
Speaker 1: people are experiencing this crisis in different ways. The people

95
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,080
Speaker 1: who are sheltering at home, who are quarantining, some have

96
00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,520
Speaker 1: a large family, some are all alone. Some are in

97
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,760
Speaker 1: very small apartments or houses. They're not used to this.

98
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 1: It's very frustrating for them. But you've been through hell,

99
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,160
Speaker 1: like you've literally been to hell as a young teenage

100
00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 1: recently child. You were wrongfully convicted and thrust into an

101
00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 1: environment that was cramped, dirty, hostile, noisy, dangerous, violent, But

102
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,600
Speaker 1: somehow or other, you persevered. And I believe that there

103
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,080
Speaker 1: are lessons that you can share with us. I'm hoping

104
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:14,160
Speaker 1: that can help everyone, including me, to you know, work

105
00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 1: through this, you know, indefinite period of time that we're

106
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: all stuck in together. And you know, and come out better.

107
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,920
Speaker 2: I definitely can appreciate that. You Know, what I did

108
00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:31,320
Speaker 2: to maintain my sanity was I began to live in

109
00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,040
Speaker 2: my mind more than in what was going on around me,

110
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,839
Speaker 2: and this allowed my mind to remain free as opposed

111
00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,520
Speaker 2: to me being completely in bondage. There was a lot

112
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,560
Speaker 2: of meditation that I was involved in. There was a

113
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,760
Speaker 2: lot of planning on paper, There was a lot of visualizing.

114
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 2: You know. One of the things that we have to

115
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 2: all come to grips with is that once we come

116
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,440
Speaker 2: out of this, it is going to be a brand

117
00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,600
Speaker 2: new world. It's not that we were the only ones

118
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,720
Speaker 2: that had experience this, right, This is a global phenomenon.

119
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,720
Speaker 2: And so as a result of that, I think it's

120
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,560
Speaker 2: important that we look at things like how do we

121
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,560
Speaker 2: keep our minds mentally exercised? And I think that that's

122
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,160
Speaker 2: by reading books, of course, I think that's by listening

123
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 2: to audible and things of that nature. Don't just pass

124
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,800
Speaker 2: the time doing nothing. You know, I was thinking about

125
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 2: all of the essential workers and essential places that they

126
00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,120
Speaker 2: kept saying we're open, and of course we had the

127
00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,680
Speaker 2: liquor stores and you know, for those people that partake

128
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,120
Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily down on them or saying anything bad

129
00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,400
Speaker 2: about them, but we can't. Just as I would say,

130
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 2: when I first won my lawsuit, they ran up to

131
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,120
Speaker 2: me and said, hey, what are you going to do now?

132
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:44,640
Speaker 2: And I said, well, I'm not going to be sitting

133
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 2: on a beach sipping my ties. This is now allowing

134
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,360
Speaker 2: me to jump fully into the fight to be a

135
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,680
Speaker 2: full participant in the freedom, justice, and the humanity of

136
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,680
Speaker 2: us as a people. And a lot of that happens

137
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 2: in your mind. It happens as you plan your work.

138
00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 2: You realize that you are born on purpose, and you

139
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,160
Speaker 2: have value, and you have something to give. And we

140
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,800
Speaker 2: just have to take that faith and begin to massage

141
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,920
Speaker 2: it into our every day. Whether that means that we're

142
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 2: going to just start exercising, if that just means one

143
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 2: set up in a day we are better than we

144
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,440
Speaker 2: were yesterday, because that's how it is. That's how we

145
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:21,880
Speaker 2: have to put one front in the front of the other.

146
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,960
Speaker 2: We have to live in our future, because if I

147
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 2: didn't live in my future, I could have never become

148
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 2: the person that I was to become. I could have

149
00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,480
Speaker 2: never had that hope that one day I'll be out

150
00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 2: of here and I'll be a free person, and the

151
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 2: truth is going to come out, and I'll be able

152
00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,120
Speaker 2: to utilize my story to transform the world.

153
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,480
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to understand how you went from a

154
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,600
Speaker 1: kid with hopes and dreams, going to the park, playing ball,

155
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,880
Speaker 1: doing whatever it is that kids do, and one day,

156
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,480
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're one of the most hated people.

157
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,400
Speaker 1: And then moreover, you end up in this prison cell.

158
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 1: Everything overnight changed for you and you had to really

159
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,559
Speaker 1: become a man overnight in a situation no child should

160
00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 1: ever find himself in. And you talk about meditation and

161
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 1: books and things like that, but let's go back to

162
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,000
Speaker 1: the first day you're in this cell. How did you

163
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: find that inner strength, that extra gear that allowed you

164
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 1: to become a meditator that allowed you to read and

165
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,640
Speaker 1: amidst all the chaos and the noise and and things

166
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: like that.

167
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 2: Well, I got to tell you, it wasn't necessarily just me.

168
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,319
Speaker 2: It was definitely a community. It was that that community

169
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 2: that raises the child. Those people that I had in

170
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,199
Speaker 2: my circle that would write me and encourage me. You know,

171
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,439
Speaker 2: it was those letters from my grandmother that would be

172
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 2: addressed to this person named Master use of salaam. My

173
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,120
Speaker 2: grandmother was trying to supercharge me. She was trying to

174
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,360
Speaker 2: get me to think differently. She was telling me, by

175
00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,439
Speaker 2: me reading these words master use of Salam, that I'm

176
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,840
Speaker 2: a master of my fate. You know. People telling me

177
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,960
Speaker 2: to be still and listen. People telling me to utilize

178
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,760
Speaker 2: this time to try to find out the why, because

179
00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,120
Speaker 2: once you find the why, you can live anyhow, as

180
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,559
Speaker 2: Niittsche says. And I think part of that philosophical reality

181
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,600
Speaker 2: began to take shape when I was asked a question

182
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 2: early on in my prison bit six months in. The

183
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,120
Speaker 2: officer walks up to me after he's been observing me

184
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,880
Speaker 2: for all this time, and he had one question for me.

185
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,160
Speaker 2: His question was who are you? And I'm thinking that

186
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,600
Speaker 2: I understand what this question means, and I say, I'm

187
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,560
Speaker 2: used of salam, one of the guys that they accused

188
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,280
Speaker 2: of raping the Central Park jogger. But I didn't do it.

189
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 2: And I realized from his response that I had answered

190
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,400
Speaker 2: him incorrectly, because he said who are you? And he said, no,

191
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,680
Speaker 2: I know that. He said, I've been watching you. You're

192
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,800
Speaker 2: not supposed to be here. Why are you here? Who

193
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 2: are you? And it was like a jump start. It

194
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,120
Speaker 2: was like a matrix, a neo Morpheus moment where I'm like,

195
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 2: hold on, like what I like? I know I'm not

196
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,240
Speaker 2: guilty of this crime? So why am I here? What

197
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 2: is it that I'm supposed to go through? What is

198
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,720
Speaker 2: it that I'm supposed to grow through? So when I

199
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,599
Speaker 2: come out on the other end, I'll come out of

200
00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:20,959
Speaker 2: person better, stronger for all that I had gone through.

201
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,120
Speaker 2: And so first day in prison, of course, was fight.

202
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,079
Speaker 2: How do you fight? And so I'm thinking, man, I'm

203
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 2: hearing the words, I'm hearing people yelling out, I'm hearing

204
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 2: people telling us that they're gonna kill us. And I

205
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,800
Speaker 2: start shadow boxing. And imagine I was growing up and

206
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 2: my mother sent me and my sister and brother to

207
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 2: learn martial arts. There were two top instructors in New

208
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 2: York City at the time. One was a gentleman named

209
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,440
Speaker 2: Master Little John Davis. The other one was doctor Moses Powell.

210
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,600
Speaker 2: I happened to be trained by Massive Little John Davis.

211
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,200
Speaker 2: And the way that they trained us, it was rigorous.

212
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 2: It wasn't you know, Okay, we're gonna cut the board

213
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 2: and you're gonna punch the board and be surprised that

214
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,679
Speaker 2: you broke the board because we pre cut it. Now

215
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,880
Speaker 2: we had to punch boards that had no cuts in it,

216
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,000
Speaker 2: and it hurt our hands. We had to do push

217
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,800
Speaker 2: ups on the ground, We had to spar with people

218
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,360
Speaker 2: who were older than us and bigger than us. And

219
00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,360
Speaker 2: it wasn't something that I realized until I got to

220
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 2: prison that they were training us for real life. They

221
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,440
Speaker 2: were training us to survive. They were training us to

222
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,640
Speaker 2: be our ancestors' wildest dreams, to not succumb to the pressures.

223
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,360
Speaker 2: It's a common known fact in the black and brown communities,

224
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 2: but people say, oh, yeah, we're going to be DEADO

225
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:35,959
Speaker 2: in jail before we reached the age of twenty one,

226
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,640
Speaker 2: and those of us who became known as the Exonerated

227
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,320
Speaker 2: five did not escape that. And the great thing about

228
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,840
Speaker 2: it is that we were able to take these limits

229
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,800
Speaker 2: that life gave us and make some lemonade out of it.

230
00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: Are there any particular books that have held help you,

231
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 1: either while you're in prison or since you've been out,

232
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,319
Speaker 1: or even now that you're experiencing a very different type

233
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,679
Speaker 1: of lockdown that you could share with us that you

234
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,040
Speaker 1: think might be help with other people.

235
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,199
Speaker 2: Man, it's crazy because of course, we are a few

236
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,920
Speaker 2: days into Ramadan, and I'm a Muslim, I'm a practice

237
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:25,480
Speaker 2: in Muslim and I'm fasting. And what gets me all

238
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 2: the time around this time of the year is that

239
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,520
Speaker 2: we have to reorient ourselves to our scripture, which is

240
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:38,560
Speaker 2: the Koran. And I'm saying that because people of faith,

241
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,000
Speaker 2: even if they're not Muslims, can reorient themselves to their scripture,

242
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:49,319
Speaker 2: the Torah of the Bible, any spiritual book that allows

243
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:55,840
Speaker 2: them to reconnect with the Creator. My grounding force has

244
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 2: always been books of scripture. I've read the Bible of

245
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,840
Speaker 2: the Koran, and I found tremendous value in that, and

246
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,240
Speaker 2: I read other things besides that. I've read a lot

247
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 2: of books about the Black experience, and one of one

248
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 2: of the things I've found is that there's a shift

249
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 2: that happens when you understand the black experience but couple

250
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,040
Speaker 2: it with humanity. Then you don't get stuck in a

251
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 2: way that is detrimental because all of us are human beings.

252
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,960
Speaker 2: Once you start going into a one sided reality, it

253
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,600
Speaker 2: begins to become problematic and challenging because we live on

254
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,440
Speaker 2: this planet with the rest of us, you know. I

255
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,400
Speaker 2: try to read books that make sense. You know. Of course,

256
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 2: The People's History by Howard Zen is an important book.

257
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 2: The Destructure of the Black Civilization A Chancellor Williams is

258
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 2: another important book. But it all goes back to reading.

259
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 2: We shouldn't consume our time with just doing stuff that

260
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 2: doesn't add value to ourselves.

261
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,680
Speaker 1: You have certainly become a I think, a really incredible

262
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:11,240
Speaker 1: example of what is possible and how to overcome, uh,

263
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, the worst that life can throw at you.

264
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,720
Speaker 1: It was so impactful for me to hear what you're

265
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,640
Speaker 1: talking about, the guard saying who are you? I learned

266
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,320
Speaker 1: from Deepak Choprah to ask myself the same question. And

267
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 1: I learned that, you know, when we normally think of that,

268
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 1: who are you? I'm a record executive, I'm a podcast host,

269
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,960
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a father, I'm ay this, I may

270
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,640
Speaker 1: that all everything can be taken away from you.

271
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 2: Right, So what happens when you're stripped of everything? Right?

272
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,640
Speaker 2: That happened to us very very early in our lives.

273
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,080
Speaker 2: And I think when I when I delve into the

274
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 2: depths of what that means, the horror of it. Right,

275
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 2: if you think about every child who is born is

276
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 2: blessed with the ability to be a child. It's blessed

277
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 2: with the naivety of what life has to offer, the dreaming.

278
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 2: We all have that desire to be something in someone

279
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,280
Speaker 2: and to add value and to be valuable. And it

280
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 2: may not be as deep as that sounds. We want

281
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 2: to have a good life, but what happens when everything

282
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:25,680
Speaker 2: is stripped away from you? There's a prayer that Muslims

283
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,720
Speaker 2: praying in Arabic. It says iyaka na abu du la

284
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 2: iyaka a stadi, and what it means in English is

285
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 2: to God. We're saying, you alone do we worship? And

286
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 2: you alone do we ask for help. Everything that we

287
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 2: have been given is because of the Creator, and it's

288
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 2: a disservice to us when we don't give God or

289
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,600
Speaker 2: the Creator it's due because then we honor God and

290
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 2: then we're blessed with more to Always talk about like

291
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,000
Speaker 2: how do you get more money by giving it away?

292
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 2: You know, it's a concept that is kind of aloof

293
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,960
Speaker 2: from people who don't have money, who need money, But

294
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,359
Speaker 2: this is like how do I give money away? Like

295
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,399
Speaker 2: I need money, like I need money to survive. But

296
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 2: once you find out that charity increases your wealth and

297
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 2: it increases your spiritual wealth as well. You feel better,

298
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,200
Speaker 2: and especially if you give more than what you thought

299
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,919
Speaker 2: you would have given, it begins to feed you and

300
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,760
Speaker 2: nourish you in a way that you could not have

301
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,720
Speaker 2: been fed or nourished any other way. And I think

302
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 2: that that's the part that's important. The secret is being

303
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 2: able to plug back into the source. There's been a challenge,

304
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,200
Speaker 2: I think, all along in our lives where we're trying

305
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 2: to figure out why are we here? What are we

306
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 2: supposed to do with our lives? And there's those of

307
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,000
Speaker 2: us who have kind of come close to it whove

308
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,520
Speaker 2: kind of figured something out. They're using it to push

309
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,800
Speaker 2: forward in life and add value to life and also

310
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 2: add value to others. And I think that that's the

311
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,399
Speaker 2: part that's important, being able to share your life in

312
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 2: such a way where it's no longer about you, but

313
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 2: it's about who else can listen and become enlightened by

314
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,639
Speaker 2: what it is that you've gone through, because if you

315
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 2: were able to survive it, they can survive it too.

316
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 2: If I went to prison, and I don't say this

317
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,159
Speaker 2: to impress anyone, but rather to impress upon people that

318
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,120
Speaker 2: if I went to prison and got a college degree.

319
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 2: We can do anything. People who are looking for a job,

320
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,639
Speaker 2: who are trying to figure out a way out of

321
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,120
Speaker 2: no way, they have time now to use their minds

322
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 2: in a way that they've never used their minds before

323
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 2: and create solutions to some of the problems that we have.

324
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 2: And some of those solutions are going to yield enormous,

325
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 2: enormous value. And even if that means that you have

326
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,239
Speaker 2: to go back to a normal nine to five, you

327
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 2: can return to the normal nine name knowing that there's

328
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 2: something more valuable that you can contribute if you haven't

329
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 2: been doing your best, But if you've been doing your best,

330
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,400
Speaker 2: then you know that that's all you can do. Once

331
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 2: I plug in and say I'm going to do my best,

332
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 2: I can go into a space that may say, hey,

333
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,719
Speaker 2: we only have a dollar to give you. I'm going

334
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 2: to give them a two million dollar speech. And it

335
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 2: helps me. It has value and purpose to me. It

336
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,919
Speaker 2: allows me to become better and to show up in

337
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 2: spaces more plugged in, more dynamic, more willing to serve

338
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 2: because it's about the service. That's what it's all about.

339
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 1: No, I'm with you too. It's interesting. I'm not a

340
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 1: religious person, but I feel like there is no greater

341
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,640
Speaker 1: joy than in being able to lift somebody else up.

342
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 1: You've certainly found your gift for doing that, which is

343
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: awesome and great to see, and I know that it's

344
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: going to have an impact on people in our audience

345
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 1: who are feeling frustrated, you know. But I have to ask,

346
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 1: there must have been moments when you felt bitter, anger y,

347
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 1: me type of feeling. Was there a darkest moment that

348
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 1: you can recall from all those many years you spent

349
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: in prison?

350
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 2: You know? I think it all was dark, and I

351
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 2: think that the light that I found in the darkness

352
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 2: was when I remembered. Once I began to get nervous,

353
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,199
Speaker 2: then it got more dark. But once I remembered that

354
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 2: I was going through this, or rather I was growing

355
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,400
Speaker 2: through this, then it all made sense. Then I could

356
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 2: see the light imminating more. But if I let the

357
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 2: darkness consume what I was growing through, I would have

358
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 2: never been able to survive.

359
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: You're a father many times over now, and that's got

360
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 1: to approach particular challenges. I would think with people going

361
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: stir crazy in the house, not being able to go

362
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: out to school and do other things the kids are

363
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: used to doing. So I'm interested in your perspective because

364
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 1: a lot of other people are going through the same thing,

365
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 1: and can you share any Is there a funny story

366
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: or anything else from this experience of being stuck at

367
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 1: home with the kids?

368
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 2: You know? So I think the funniest story of being

369
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 2: stuck at home with the children are finding ways to start,

370
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 2: like to not go still crazy. I mean, children all

371
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 2: times of the day, all times of the night, they're

372
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: doing all kinds of funny, cool things. You know. We

373
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 2: have these amazing moments all the time where either my

374
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 2: eldest daughter in the house now, who's she's developing her

375
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: ability to really become a great artist, and she's drawing

376
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 2: these beautiful pieces of artwork. I mean, it's just it

377
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 2: blows my mind because of course the other children are

378
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: just maturing and I'm here, you know, I'm usually on

379
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 2: the road a lot, and I'm usually sharing with the

380
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: rest of the world, and so now I have this

381
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 2: opportunity to be at home, to be a father, to

382
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 2: be hands on, and to see the growth and development

383
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 2: that happens with the children all the time. And I

384
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,479
Speaker 2: think that that's something that you don't want to miss.

385
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 2: There's a value in that that you really want to

386
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: be able to participate in and be able to witness

387
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 2: and to see. And then of course I have older

388
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: children who are in New York, and to share with

389
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 2: them and to talk with them mentally, they are on

390
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 2: a whole nother level. I'm still seeing them as my babies,

391
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 2: but there are adults. They're on the cusp of being adults,

392
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 2: and of course being able to share with them some

393
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: of my wisdom and insights adds value to what they're

394
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: going through. Yeah.

395
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: I guess that comes back to something that someone reminds

396
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,479
Speaker 1: me of frequently, which is when when I say, oh,

397
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 1: I have to go do something, it's like no, no,

398
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: you get to.

399
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 2: Go do whatever. You don't have to do it, right.

400
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: So it's really just sometimes changing one word and change

401
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: your whole perspective. And I appreciate you reminding me of that.

402
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: So this is the part of the show that our

403
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: listeners are familiar with and that I think they appreciate

404
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: and enjoy, probably as much as any part of the

405
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: show I know I do. So I want to again

406
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: thank our very special guest today, doctor Yusuf Salaam. I'd

407
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,719
Speaker 1: like to turn it over to you for what I

408
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: call words of wisdom. So thanks again. I'm going to

409
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 1: kick back and just listen to what you have to say.

410
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, So I'm just honored to be here, honored

411
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 2: to be alive and to be able to share. And

412
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: one of the things I want to give people is

413
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 2: the idea of never giving up trying to do the

414
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 2: best that you can, especially now, and I think most

415
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 2: important to reinvent yourself. When we show up in this

416
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 2: new world in the next few months, the next few weeks,

417
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: I think we want to show up our best selves.

418
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: And I want to say that kind of like emphatically.

419
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 2: If we can put our best foot forward, become our

420
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: best selves, then that's where we can really gain the

421
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: truth benefit from life. And that's what it's all about,

422
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: being able to be here and say that we mattered.

423
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 2: We don't want to leave this world without a trace.

424
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 2: As my good friend Les Brown says, we want to

425
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 2: be able to at the end of our lives be

426
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 2: able to look back and say every thing that we

427
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: were supposed to do, we were able to do it.

428
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 2: Every idea that came to our minds, we gave birth

429
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: to it. We don't want to be on our deathbeds,

430
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: when all of the hope streams and aspirations are looking

431
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: at us and knowing that they're going to die with

432
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: us because we didn't give it life. The best thing

433
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 2: that we can do is give life to not only

434
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: things that come to us and the value that we

435
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 2: can add, but give life and allow our lives to

436
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: show other people how to participate fully in their lives.

437
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: We don't want to be on the sidelines looking at

438
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: other people's lives anymore. We have to participate.

439
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: Wow, that was awesome. I really hope you got as

440
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 1: much out of it as I did, because every time

441
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: I hear doctor Salam speak the perspective, the grace, the

442
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: optimism of a man who has been to hell and back,

443
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: who was sent to prison, to you know, to some

444
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: of the roughest prisons in the country as a young teenager,

445
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: and who took the opportunity to find himself as opposed

446
00:25:54,080 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 1: to collapsing or acting out and emerged stronger, better, and

447
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: now is really just a beacon of light and otherwise

448
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: very dark in the time that we find ourselves in.

449
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: So yeah, doctor Yusa Salam, the only word I can

450
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 1: think of for you as hero. Now I want to

451
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: end by saying thank you to our first responders, the

452
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: healthcare providers, all the essential workers, cleaning people, everyone who's

453
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,239
Speaker 1: doing their best to help keep our society going. And

454
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: I want to also shout out the people who are

455
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: working in our courts through this difficult time that the

456
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: public defenders, the defense attorneys and others who are you know,

457
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: they're going to work and they're putting on their masks

458
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: and their gloves and they're you know, they're out there

459
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: doing their level best. So many who could be phoning

460
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: it in are out there fighting for their clients. Props

461
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: to you as well. In the meantime, I hope you've

462
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: been listening to Laura and I writer and Steve Drissen

463
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 1: as they enlighten us on their podcast False Confessions. They

464
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: have two more amazing episodes left before the start of

465
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 1: our new season of Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. I

466
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: hope you've taken some of the priceless wisdom from our

467
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: wrongfully convicted community to heart. It all was not easily earned.

468
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: I mean, this was the hardest possible way. They earned

469
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: this wisdom, these unbelievable people sharing their thoughts. This is

470
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: the last episode of our mini series as we focus

471
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: our efforts on the upcoming season. So keep staying safe

472
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: and thank you for joining us for an alternative perspective

473
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: on living in the time of COVID. Don't forget to

474
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get your podcasts.

475
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: It really helps.

476
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: And I'm a proud donor to the NISIS Project, and

477
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very

478
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go

479
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: to innisonsproject dot org to learn how to donate and

480
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor

481
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show is

482
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure

483
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on

484
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm

485
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association

486
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: with Signal Company Number one