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Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the

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Speaker 1: last twenty five years writing about true crime.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's

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Speaker 2: worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them.

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Speaker 1: Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most

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Speaker 1: compelling true crimes.

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Speaker 2: And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring

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Speaker 2: new insights to old mysteries.

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Speaker 1: Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime

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Speaker 1: cases through a twenty first century lens.

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Speaker 2: Some are solved and some are cold, very cold.

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Speaker 1: This is buried Bones.

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Speaker 2: Hey eight, how's it going?

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Speaker 1: It's going well, Paul. What's going on with you? We're

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Speaker 1: back from the winter break. Did you miss me?

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Speaker 2: I've always miss you even when we don't have breaks.

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Speaker 2: You know, it goes way too long in between recordings.

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Speaker 1: Are You're sweet?

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Speaker 2: But yeah? How did the break go for you?

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Speaker 1: It goes well for me. You know. We usually have

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Speaker 1: a quiet Christmas and I have it's not complaining about

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Speaker 1: my birthday, but it's you know, lamenting a little bit

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Speaker 1: that I don't have a birthday. Maybe in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the summer. It's three days after Christmas and then

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Speaker 1: New Year's hits us right away. So I'm pretty exhausted.

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Speaker 1: But I'm lucky that the girls still want to stay

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Speaker 1: home with us on New Year's Eve, which is so sweet.

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Speaker 1: You know. We make fondue and we hang out and

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Speaker 1: watch movies all night. We watched Lord of the Rings,

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole series, and so it's real sweet.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just waiting for the year to come where

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Speaker 1: they want to go hang out at a bar or something,

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Speaker 1: probably ninety days they're fourteen. But what about you you

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Speaker 1: have teenagers, do they still want to hang out or

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Speaker 1: are they out completely on New Year's Eve?

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Speaker 2: You know, we are probably the most boring New Year's

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Speaker 2: family ever. I gave up staying up for New Years

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Speaker 2: many many years ago. I go to bed normal time

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Speaker 2: on New Year's I don't do the celebration, and you know,

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Speaker 2: in part just from my career when I was being

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Speaker 2: called out. You know, I was called out multiple times

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Speaker 2: New Year's Eve for very very bad things, and it's

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Speaker 2: just like, you know what, I just don't want to

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Speaker 2: put myself at risk on New Year's Eve, and so

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Speaker 2: I stay in, you know, so you know, I wake

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Speaker 2: up New Year's morning and it's like, okay, it's a

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Speaker 2: new year. I have to remember that when I, you know,

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Speaker 2: write my dates, that I have to change the year.

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Speaker 2: It's now, you know, twenty twenty four. And that's about

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Speaker 2: as far as I go.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you say bad things, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: get to gruesome on New Year's But is it domestic

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Speaker 1: violence stuff or is it people shooting in a crowd

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Speaker 1: at a New Year's party or something completely different?

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Speaker 2: Now, you know the the cases that I got called

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Speaker 2: out on. I remember there was a homicide, not not

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Speaker 2: a DV homicide, but a bar related homicide that occurred

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Speaker 2: as stabbing. And then actually there was one New Year's

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Speaker 2: It's almost comical, is our property room got broken into.

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Speaker 2: Actually it wasn't the warehouse itself, but they had an

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Speaker 2: outdoor storage container where they kept all the marijuana and

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Speaker 2: they kept it out there because it smells and they

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Speaker 2: didn't want it in the inside. Well, you know, some

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Speaker 2: street urchins figured out that that's where all the marijuana was.

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Speaker 1: Street with me too long street. They figured out where

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Speaker 1: the pot was.

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Speaker 2: Okay, they figured out where the pot was, and so

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Speaker 2: they cut into this container and got chased off, and

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Speaker 2: I forget exactly why they got chased off, but there

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Speaker 2: was all these boxes of marijuana that had been dropped

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Speaker 2: by these guys as they were running away. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: my New Year's plans changed rapidly when the pager went

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Speaker 2: off and I had to go and respond to Basically,

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Speaker 2: it was just a burglary of our property room, but

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Speaker 2: you know, having been out, you know, at night. Of course,

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Speaker 2: it's not just the responses I went out to, but

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Speaker 2: the response is that my coworkers went out to it.

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Speaker 2: Just it seemed consistent, you know. And yes, there is

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Speaker 2: the DV stuff, there's the alcohol, you know, infused aspects,

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Speaker 2: and it's just like, yeah, no, I don't need to

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Speaker 2: be out at a bar and on New Year's Eve,

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Speaker 2: and I'll just go and celebrate the New Year's at

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Speaker 2: some other time when it's maybe not so so risky.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's the way to put it.

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Speaker 1: Or I think you should celebrate London New Year's which

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Speaker 1: would hit you at five pm. I think that would

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Speaker 1: work out really.

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Speaker 2: Well for you.

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Speaker 1: It in London, they usually have some great band playing,

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Speaker 1: That's what I think for sure.

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Speaker 2: That sounds like a good idea.

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Speaker 1: Actually it's a technicality. That's you know, you and I

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Speaker 1: look for technicalities, and these crimes, that's your technicality right there,

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Speaker 1: there you go, So you know, on New Year's I

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Speaker 1: always try to steer my family when we watch stuff

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Speaker 1: towards like an Agatha Christie mystery, and I always lose

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Speaker 1: out to like a Harry Potter or a Lord of

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Speaker 1: the Rings. But I was moving towards a mystery, and

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping to get them to commit for next year,

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Speaker 1: but they said no. So I wanted to bring you

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Speaker 1: a mystery of my own in the story that we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about next This is truly a mystery.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if it's a who done it.

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Speaker 1: This is a woman who was very complicated and a

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Speaker 1: second set of circumstances that's just difficult for me to untangle.

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Speaker 1: I think you're going to have a lot of fun

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Speaker 1: thinking about this case. Anni'son California.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm intrigued.

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Speaker 1: His eyebrows just raised. Okay, that's a good thing. It's

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Speaker 1: better than a grimace. Are you staring at the fish?

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Speaker 1: I'm talking? Yeah, which you should have never told me,

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Speaker 1: because now I have a I keep an eye on Nope,

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Speaker 1: don't do it, Paul. Okay, let's head to California. I'll

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Speaker 1: go ahead and set the scene. Okay, this story to

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Speaker 1: be really a big tease here. This story is about

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Speaker 1: the vast amount of possibilities of what happened. In this case,

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Speaker 1: it involves a pretty complicated woman. So let me tell

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Speaker 1: you where we are in the time period, both of

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Speaker 1: which are intriguing. This is nineteen twenty nine, so we're

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the Great Depression, and this is

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Speaker 1: in a white farmhouse in Fairfield, California, which is near Napa.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever worked in near Fairfield.

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Speaker 2: Before I used to live in Fairfield.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know, Mike. Is that another thing? I was

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Speaker 1: supposed to know that everybody. Everybody's gonna message me and say,

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Speaker 1: you idiot? How did you not know that?

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Speaker 2: Now you know? Well, people probably know that I had

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Speaker 2: lived in Vacaville. But Vacaville and Fairfield are like twin cities,

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Speaker 2: so right next to each other, right outside of Travis

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Speaker 2: Air Force Base. In the summer between my seventh and

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Speaker 2: eighth grades, my dad got stationed at Travis Air Force Base.

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Speaker 2: So I moved from San Antonio, Texas to Fairfield, California,

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Speaker 2: And of course, you know, went through high school there

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Speaker 2: at Vandon High School, which is sort of a fed

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Speaker 2: primarily by military brats out of the Travis Air Force Base,

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Speaker 2: but also from Fairfield kids and back of Ill kids,

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Speaker 2: so kind of co mingled. But I know Fairfield very

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Speaker 2: very well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, this will be interesting. And I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you've even heard of this house, because it's apparently pretty

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Speaker 1: well known. So this involves a woman named Edith Irene Wolfskill,

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Speaker 1: and she's fifty seven years old and in the middle

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Speaker 1: of July, she goes out for a walk. So she

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Speaker 1: leaves this white farmhouse which is near Napa beautiful area.

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Speaker 1: And just to set the scene for the house, it's

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Speaker 1: got a really cute gingerbread trim and a big wrap

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Speaker 1: around porch, and it's in the vineyards and you know,

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Speaker 1: there's peach orchard everywhere. It sounds just beautiful. She is

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Speaker 1: very wealthy, very very wealthy. She and her family, but

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Speaker 1: it's down to just Edith and her two brothers, and

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about them in a second. She's a huge walker.

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Speaker 1: She loves to hike. She wants to go by herself.

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Speaker 1: She never wants company, so she walks in the countryside

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Speaker 1: often and people never worry about her when she goes out,

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Speaker 1: it seems. But she leaves in the morning and she

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Speaker 1: doesn't come back for lunch, which seems concerning for the

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Speaker 1: staff that is in the house. They get worried because

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Speaker 1: she hasn't been back in a few hours, and they

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Speaker 1: immediately call the sheriff, which to me just at first blush.

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Speaker 1: If you have somebody who says they'll be back for

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Speaker 1: lunch and then they don't show up, there must be

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Speaker 1: something about that person that is alarming, because I think

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Speaker 1: even if somebody I knew now was delayed for an hour,

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Speaker 1: I might just think they were running behind, or maybe

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Speaker 1: they just got lost. But their first instinct of the

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Speaker 1: staff is to call the sheriff immediately.

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Speaker 2: Well, that would suggest to me that Edith has a very,

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Speaker 2: very regimented schedule and if she says I will be

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Speaker 2: back in an hour, she has a history of being

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Speaker 2: back in an hour. And yes, I think for a

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Speaker 2: fifty seven year old woman, if she goes out for

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Speaker 2: a walk and she's not back in an hour, I

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Speaker 2: think the average person would go, oh, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's taken her longer today. Yet oh or she's talking

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Speaker 2: to somebody, or maybe she diverted and is doing something else.

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Speaker 2: So for the staff to call so quickly, that really

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Speaker 2: is surprising to me. It informs me a little bit about.

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Speaker 1: Edith, definitely. So just for background, Edith comes from a

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Speaker 1: very wealthy family. Her grandfather was one of the first

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Speaker 1: white settlers in the Salono Valley, and her father and

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Speaker 1: her uncle controlled this massive swath of land and built

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Speaker 1: a very large family fortune, and I mean large, like

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Speaker 1: about fifty million by the time people, I mean that

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Speaker 1: is big, fifty million hour money. So she is described

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Speaker 1: at one point, of course, as a beautiful young woman

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Speaker 1: with dark hair and gray eyes. She grew up in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, she was educated in Paris. And the money

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Speaker 1: part of this is important because her father died in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirteen, so this is sixteen years earlier. She was

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Speaker 1: about forty, and she's got these two brothers, Matt and

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Speaker 1: a man named Nay wolf Skill, and they end up

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Speaker 1: the three of them splitting his estate evenly. So it

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Speaker 1: was one point six in nineteen thirteen and now it

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Speaker 1: is today money it is almost fifty million dollars. So

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Speaker 1: the three of them split this money. Matt and Nay

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Speaker 1: do not get along. They are feuding over the money

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Speaker 1: starting nineteen thirteen when the parents die. And now you've

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Speaker 1: got these two people who, in theory, are motivated to

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Speaker 1: make Edith go missing. If that's what's even happening in

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Speaker 1: this case. But let's assume something bad has happened to her,

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Speaker 1: she has gone missing into the countryside. That's why I

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Speaker 1: wanted to bring up money now is now you don't

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Speaker 1: have someone who seemingly has enemies. You have someone, though,

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Speaker 1: who has a lot of money and people know it.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knows it, and she is out hiking around by herself.

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Speaker 2: What kind of is drawing my attention at this point?

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Speaker 2: You know, of course the victimology side here. You have

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Speaker 2: Edith with a lot of money, she goes missing. Staff

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Speaker 2: reports are missing right away. Of course, that financial aspect

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Speaker 2: can be a motive within the family for Edith to

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Speaker 2: go missing. But with the staff reporting her so quickly,

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Speaker 2: I'm starting to sense that maybe there was some prior

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Speaker 2: incidents that caused the staffed half concern so quickly. Is

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Speaker 2: there any information along those lines.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you're hitting the nail on the head. So let's

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Speaker 1: leave Matt and Nay behind they haven't spoken in decades,

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Speaker 1: but they have to talk just very briefly every once

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Speaker 1: in a while because they are in charge of Edith's care.

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Speaker 1: So she is fifty seven and she suffers from a

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Speaker 1: severe mental illness and she's under a nurse's care. But

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Speaker 1: their father put these two brothers who can't stand each other,

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Speaker 1: in charge of whatever she needs. And I'm assuming paying

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Speaker 1: for the staff and distributing money. And this is why

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Speaker 1: the staff is alarmed because she shouldn't be going out

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Speaker 1: by herself without checking back in, and she didn't check

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Speaker 1: back in and she's gone so background on mental health

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Speaker 1: in her early adulthood, so you know, this would be

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Speaker 1: probably twenty or thirty years ago, her mental health began

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Speaker 1: to deteriorate. You know, remember she was raised in San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: She went to Paris, so shortly after it sounds like

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Speaker 1: being educated, and in Paris things started to fall apart.

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Speaker 1: She became obsessed with religion and she would roam the

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Speaker 1: streets of Fairfield or San Francisco wherever she was shouting

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Speaker 1: out Bible verses. She had been checked into inpatient facilities

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Speaker 1: in Belmont and San Francisco, and she escaped or wandered

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Speaker 1: away from both multiple times, and each time she was

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Speaker 1: found unharmed. So what is that without us both being psychiatrists,

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Speaker 1: what do you think is the danger here to her

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Speaker 1: being in the countryside and not returning from the point.

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Speaker 2: Of view of a nurse, Well, I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: just from my perspective, and what I'm trying to key

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Speaker 2: in on is here we have Edith who goes out

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Speaker 2: for a walk in an area that she is familiar with,

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Speaker 2: She's been living here for a while. With the mental illness,

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Speaker 2: is there a possibility of her getting lost, you know

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Speaker 2: where now she blanks and then you know, we have

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Speaker 2: these types of situations where we have people who do

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Speaker 2: wander away and ultimately they isolate themselves and die, you know,

249
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Speaker 2: out in the middle of nowhere, and then the remains

250
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Speaker 2: are found at some point later, sometimes decades later. And

251
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Speaker 2: so even though we have this financial aspect with Edith

252
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Speaker 2: and possibly financial motive for harm to happen to Edith

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Speaker 2: because of the brothers, the family situation, with her mental illness,

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering, is there a possibility where literally she disappeared herself,

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Speaker 2: you know, just got lost and now nobody knows where

256
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Speaker 2: she's at because she's out wandering, because this is a

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Speaker 2: very isolated area. This make us corner area where our

258
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Speaker 2: house is at, especially in nineteen twenty nine, but even today,

259
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Speaker 2: you know, this is really an agricultural area. These ranch

260
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Speaker 2: homes are very distant from each other. So I imagine

261
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Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty nine, she's pretty much out there, you know,

262
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Speaker 2: by herself if she's out wandering. And is it possible

263
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Speaker 2: that she just you know, fell into a creek or

264
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Speaker 2: you know, got lost into the you know, the woods

265
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Speaker 2: or in the hills either or a distance away. So

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Speaker 2: that's really where I'm kind of coming from. Is Okay,

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Speaker 2: how does her mental illness impact her ability to find

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Speaker 2: her way back home?

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's keep talking about this. Matt and Nay, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: have to coordinate their schedules. So when I said they

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Speaker 1: didn't talk for you know, a decade or two, they

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Speaker 1: can't talk about anything involving their relationship. They have to

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Speaker 1: coordinate their schedules because they can't stand each other so

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Speaker 1: much that they can't both visit Edith at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So it's a lot of acrimony between these two brothers.

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Speaker 1: But they both seem to care for Edith is what

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Speaker 1: it sounds like to me. A little more information about her,

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Speaker 1: she and kind of the reaction of Fairfield to her.

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Speaker 1: In general, she's known around town as the quote impress

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Speaker 1: of the world. Some people say she gave herself that

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Speaker 1: title and it's a delude usion. Others say people gave

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Speaker 1: her that nickname. But she seems to be accepted, and

283
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Speaker 1: she's known as kind of the town eccentric, very harmless,

284
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Speaker 1: the rich, kind of quirky, eccentric lady. Nobody seems to

285
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Speaker 1: have any problem with her at all. She's not really

286
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 1: interfering with people, but everybody knows. She likes to go

287
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Speaker 1: out for long walks and hikes. She comes back dirty.

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Speaker 1: She's known around town, which is interesting, as a powerful hiker.

289
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Speaker 1: So after she goes missing, people say, this woman knows

290
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Speaker 1: what she's doing, she knows where she's going. She's tall,

291
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Speaker 1: she's wiry, she's strong, and people see her all the

292
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Speaker 1: time on the trails. So when we say delusions or

293
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Speaker 1: anything like that, is it possible that someone who knows

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Speaker 1: these trails and who's been doing this for years can

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Speaker 1: really get lost because of the mental illness. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's so hard to say, but I would

297
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 2: say it's entirely possible, you know, for somebody who's so

298
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Speaker 2: offering in such a way that even though this is

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Speaker 2: an area that she's familiar with, it's possible that she

300
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Speaker 2: has an episode, you know, some sort of mental break

301
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Speaker 2: and now does get lost, even though it's an area

302
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Speaker 2: that she's familiar with. You know, what's a little bit

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Speaker 2: striking to me again knowing this area is you know,

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Speaker 2: people are aware that she's out there hiking. Now where

305
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 2: her house is located at is quite a distance away

306
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Speaker 2: from the Fairfield Town Center, you know, and probably from

307
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Speaker 2: the various neighborhoods that would technically be within the city

308
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Speaker 2: limits of Fairfield, especially in nineteen twenty nine, So for

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Speaker 2: a lot of people to be aware of her hiking

310
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Speaker 2: these trails, Yeah, that's surprising to me. It sounds like

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Speaker 2: this must be an area where the citizens of Fairfield

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Speaker 2: would go out to. It's a beautiful area, so it's

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Speaker 2: probably a typical area where now in nineteen twenty nine,

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Speaker 2: people are flowing out of the city hiking those trails

315
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Speaker 2: running across her. But could you have somebody who has

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Speaker 2: bad intent be aware that she's out there, she's isolated

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Speaker 2: and alone. Yeah, so now I'm kind of throwing in

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Speaker 2: maybe another possibility of what happened to her. You know,

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Speaker 2: you have brothers that maybe if she goes missing, they

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Speaker 2: financially benefit. You have her mental illness, and possibly she

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Speaker 2: got herself lost. Or do you have a bad person

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Speaker 2: that takes advantage of a victim of opportunity who happens

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Speaker 2: to be out in this very remote area.

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Speaker 1: The sheriff immediately responds because of the affluence of the family.

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Speaker 1: The sheriff is concerned she's been kidnapped. That's the first

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Speaker 1: thing he thought. They're waiting for a ransom. Note he

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Speaker 1: thought she was going to get kidnapped because everyone in

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Speaker 1: the town knows she's rich, everyone in the town knows

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Speaker 1: she's vulnerable, and everyone in the town knows that she

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Speaker 1: goes on walks basically every day and hikes, and not

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Speaker 1: just walks, but hikes deep in. So I looked into

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Speaker 1: cars in nineteen twenty nine because I thought, Okay, if

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Speaker 1: she is kidnapped nineteen twenty nine, how many people have cars?

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a lot of people. One in five

335
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Speaker 1: people had cars. Basically there was averaging one car per household,

336
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Speaker 1: So cars would not have been surprising at all in

337
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty nine, which is why people in town know her,

338
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Speaker 1: because they certainly had at least one car and a driver,

339
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Speaker 1: I'm sure. And then I'm sure that whoever interfered with her,

340
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Speaker 1: if that's what happened, probably could have had at least

341
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Speaker 1: access to a car. So that adds another possibility. If

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Speaker 1: someone snatched her on the trail, somehow subdued her and

343
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Speaker 1: put her in a car, that would not have been shocking,

344
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Speaker 1: I think to anybody, let's talk about the kidnapping. The

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Speaker 1: sheriff says, boy, that's what this sounds like to me.

346
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Speaker 1: And they keep watch at the house. They keep watch

347
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Speaker 1: pretty much everywhere Edith would have gone for somebody to

348
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Speaker 1: drop off a ransom note. No ransom note, so within

349
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Speaker 1: a day or two they crossed that off the list.

350
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Speaker 1: They immediately start a search everywhere that Edith has ever

351
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Speaker 1: gone in the countryside. We have searchers fanning out everywhere,

352
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: airplanes searching from the sky. They find nothing. The bank

353
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 1: where Edith kept her money puts up a thousand dollars

354
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 1: reward for information, which is eighteen thousand today. So this

355
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,360
Speaker 1: is not just missing white woman syndrome. This is missing

356
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 1: rich white woman syndrome at this point when people are

357
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: sounding the alarm. And I'm sure there are a gazillion

358
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 1: people of color who have gone missing and not even

359
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 1: remotely like this. But I've never heard of a bank

360
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 1: putting up money before. Does that sound unusual to you?

361
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Speaker 2: That is very unusual. She may have a personal relationship

362
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Speaker 2: with some of the employees of the bank or the

363
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 2: managers of the bank, but then also the financial side,

364
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 2: you know, do they have concerns about the impact on

365
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Speaker 2: the financial status of the bank if this money ends

366
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 2: up being withdrawn? You know, something along those lines.

367
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Speaker 1: I would go with the financial aspect. This is probably

368
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,919
Speaker 1: where the whole family keeps their money, and so this

369
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: is a good faith We're behind you. You know, this

370
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 1: is how much we care about you. I don't want

371
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 1: to be cynical, but that's what my guess would be. Yeah, Okay,

372
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: let's flash forward a week. So now we are in

373
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Speaker 1: July twentieth, So let me ask you, July twentieth, Solano Valley,

374
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Speaker 1: what kind of temperatures are we talking about?

375
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Speaker 2: Do you think when I was living there? We are

376
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Speaker 2: now getting into a very hot period it's now getting

377
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 2: into in the summertime let's say July twentieth, high nineties

378
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 2: to low one hundreds, and could spike up to between

379
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: one ten one point fifteen during this time of year.

380
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is getting dangerous for Edith, which explains

381
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: why she left early in the morning and they expected

382
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Speaker 1: her back by lunch, and when she wasn't back, I'm

383
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: sure they worried that she was suffering from at least

384
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Speaker 1: dehydration if she got hurt on the trail.

385
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: Right, Oh, yeah, no, for sure. Part of the reason

386
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 2: I moved out of California was the summers were just

387
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 2: getting too hot. As I got older, I was just like,

388
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: I can't deal with this heat anymore. That's older than

389
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 2: I am now. So I can imagine that if she's

390
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 2: out there, she's lost, and now she's in temperatures that

391
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 2: are approaching a hundred or exceeding one hundred degrees, she's

392
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: going to be suffering.

393
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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about what they find on the trail

394
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: a week after she is last seen, which just must

395
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 1: be worrying. I don't know about her brothers, but at

396
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 1: least worrying to the staff and the nurse who is

397
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 1: reporting her missing a week after she's last seen. They

398
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: find tracks that were quote definitely made by a woman.

399
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 2: Oh okay, well that's just where for somebody to draw

400
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 2: a conclusion, you know, of gender based on shoe impressions

401
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: or stride length. That's just wrong. You can't do that.

402
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 2: I'm five point ten. I wear a size eight shoe.

403
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: Let's just say that.

404
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: So is that small.

405
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: It's on the smaller side, you know, but it's not

406
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: excessively small for somebody of my height. But there are

407
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: plenty of women that have my size feet, you know,

408
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 2: or larger feet. So you know, there's just nothing within

409
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 2: you know, shoe impressions or gait, you know, anything that

410
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 2: you could measure in which you could narrow down, you know,

411
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: a gender.

412
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: And just the side observation. They have been searching for

413
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: her for a week. Unless they excluded women from helping

414
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: in this search, how do they know it's not a

415
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: Kate Dawson out there searching And that's my shoe impression

416
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: versus Edith's. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

417
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: And then the sheriff really goes on a limb and

418
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: says that these shoeprints are only a day old, and

419
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: that they certainly do exactly match a shoe that Edith

420
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: is known to wear. I mean, this just seems like

421
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: really far out, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is legit.

422
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, well it is far fetched, especially a

423
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 2: week out, you know, And then to try to age

424
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: shoe impressions, I mean, there are indicators to indicate something

425
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: is reasonably fresh because there's still a lot of detail.

426
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: And if there's been you know, whether whether it be wind,

427
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: whether it be rain. You know that of course that

428
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 2: can impact details within a shoe impression. So you kind

429
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 2: of get a sense for Yeah, this impression looks somewhat weathered,

430
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 2: but it seems like the sheriff is stretching.

431
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: So they follow these mysterious female shoe prints and the

432
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: prints cross a road in Gordon Valley. Do you know

433
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: Gordon Valley since you lived in that area? Is it

434
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 1: nearby or what?

435
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 2: Where her house is? This Macus Corner area. This is

436
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 2: in somewhat of a valley, and it appears that there's

437
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: just various depending on where in this valley you're located,

438
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 2: it has different names. But as you go north from

439
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 2: where her house is located at, that's where I'm starting

440
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: to see Gordon Valley Road and Gordon Valley fire Station,

441
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: so it appears that that is a specific valley in

442
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: this series of hills as you go north.

443
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: So they say that the track crosses a road, but

444
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: then the shoe prints are completely lost after that. And

445
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: this is four and a half miles north of Edith's home,

446
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: which I thought four and a half miles did she

447
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: travel that far? But then just yesterday I was at

448
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 1: my dad's farm and walked about six miles just trying

449
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: to walk the land, and it was not I was

450
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: meandering and it didn't take that long, so that's not

451
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: out of the ordinary. I just don't know if this

452
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: is anything to go off of, but I guess it's

453
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 1: something for the sheriff. He's just trying to get this

454
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: family any kind of information.

455
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that may be the pressure he's under, you know,

456
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 2: and he's now going I don't know what happened to her,

457
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: but I need as the sheriff, I need to be

458
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 2: able to give the family, give the public information to

459
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 2: show that I am at least trying to do something thing. Yeah,

460
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: but again I think to try to associate these shoe

461
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: impressions four and a half miles north of her house.

462
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 2: Back to Edith a week later, he's grasping at Straw's.

463
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: I think grasping at Straw's is a great phrase to

464
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 1: use here, But I think we get another step here

465
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: that might have more solid information, but we'll see. So

466
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: the same day that they find the tracks, which is

467
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: a week after she went missing, there's a woman in Saratoga,

468
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: which they say is ninety miles south of her house.

469
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: There's a woman in the town of Saratoga that tells

470
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: her local sheriff that a woman who fit Edith's description

471
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: had spent the night at her house and left the

472
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 1: following morning, five days after she went missing. She introduced

473
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: herself not as Edith Wolf's Skill, but as Edith Kelly.

474
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: Her middle name's not Kelly, but that certainly doesn't mean

475
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: she didn't make up a last name. And this woman

476
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: claimed is that a woman named Edith Kelly who matched

477
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: Edith's description, stays the night at her house and then

478
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: says she's going to La the next day. So what

479
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: do you think about that?

480
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: So Sarah Tooga is basically south west of San Jose.

481
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: This is a distance away from Fairfield, So how much publicity.

482
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 2: Did this case of Edith going missing get in the

483
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: Bay Area? Why is this woman who lives all away

484
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 2: past San Jose saying, hey, somebody matching this missing person.

485
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 2: Edith stayed with me that night. There's a reason this

486
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: woman came forward. And so that's what I'm trying to

487
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 2: figure out, is what is that reason?

488
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: A lot of publicity and one of the wealthiest families

489
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: in this part of California. And think about the reason

490
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: that the media cares now about this kind of story.

491
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: Rich White, I mean, I hate the phrase high risk lifestyle,

492
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: but someone who you would not look at and say,

493
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: this could have happened to this person and a big mystery.

494
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: The media loves that, especially in the twenties where it's

495
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: you've got the heirst newspapers and the yellow journalism. So

496
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: this had spread everywhere. The story was a really big deal.

497
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: So yes, she would have read about this story and

498
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: then gone to her sheriff.

499
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: Okay. And so when we've had these types of cases,

500
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: you know, I've looked at similar cases out of my jurisdiction.

501
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 2: You know, these unsolved cases. We do have people that

502
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: come forward, and sometimes these people are well intentioned, but

503
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: they've misidentified who they think is the missing person. And

504
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: there are people who come forward because they themselves want attention,

505
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: They insert themselves into the investigation and they are lying.

506
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: And so that's what I'm trying to do, is is

507
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: this woman somebody that you know the information she's providing,

508
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: you know there's good veracity to it, or is she

509
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: just an attention seeker?

510
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: Well, and one other note to make here that I

511
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: was thinking about, I don't read any evidence that Edith

512
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: had any connection to La. And when she's gone sing

513
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: like from these facilities, these mental health facilities, or from

514
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: her house or anywhere, it's not like she's gone far.

515
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: She was located pretty quickly. This I think would require

516
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: her to catch a ride to Saratoga and then would

517
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: require her to catch a ride or take a trainer

518
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: or something to La, because it doesn't sound like she drove.

519
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 1: I'm sure she had a driver. So the name fits

520
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: in the description if you believe this woman fit. But

521
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: that's about it. This doesn't seem to fit in her

522
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: character very much.

523
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this also goes back to what would be

524
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: Edith's motivation to just disappear, And from an investigator standpoint,

525
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: this is where you'd end up having to follow the

526
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 2: money because if she's just deciding, Okay, I'm done with

527
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: my brothers, I just want to get out of here,

528
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: or maybe she is got some sort of paranoia, some

529
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: sort of mental condition, but she likely is going to

530
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: have access to her funds. Even if she goes all

531
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: the way down to LA She's still going to have

532
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: to have some of her money in order to survive.

533
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: And so that's where, Okay, the sheriff is going to

534
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: be needing to get access to what kind of activities

535
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: have occurred in her account and let's say the year prior,

536
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 2: as well as what activities are occurring to her account

537
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: after she's gone missing, if any activities if.

538
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: She's sneaky, and I don't think she is. If she's sneaky,

539
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: she's withdrawing cash every month, small bits of it and

540
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: just hoarding it. But you know, we don't have credit

541
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: cards anymore. I don't know if she used checks, but

542
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: this would have been I think seemingly easier because she

543
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: could have drawn out money and then who knows. Let

544
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: me tell you something else about witnesses. So at the

545
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: same time as this woman says she was in Saratoga,

546
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: someone else reports seeing Edith on July eighteenth, which is

547
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: a few days after she went missing and before the

548
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: tracks are found. He says she was one hundred and

549
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: fifty miles in the other direction in Red Bluff, which

550
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: is just north of Edith's house. It's a gas day owner.

551
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: He says a woman came to him, matching Edith's description

552
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: and said, can I change my clothes here? And he

553
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: said sure, so now so now she's going to So

554
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: what is that two hundred and forty miles she's traveling?

555
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: If you're believing both of these people, it just seems

556
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: really odd. And I guess it is coming back to

557
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: the unreliable witness here, right.

558
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, no's that's exactly what's going on. And you know,

559
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 2: with this high profile type of missing person's case, these

560
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: are the types of witnesses that always come forward, you know.

561
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 2: And now it's really, okay, do we have enough detail

562
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: to have confidence that this is Edith? And right now

563
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: I'd say no, you know, I'd say both of these witnesses,

564
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: that seems like it's sketchy.

565
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's get back to Matt and Nay, who

566
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: I don't know still how I feel about them. I

567
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: don't get a clear picture. It doesn't sound like they

568
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: have acrimony toward her. It's just each other. But I

569
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: also am not getting a clear picture on how much,

570
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: you know, if they're visiting Edith to fulfill something from

571
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: their father after he died, or if they really care

572
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: about her. But they are pissed at each other. They

573
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: both are called into the Sheriff's office and there are

574
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: reporters there, and Matt and Nae start fighting physically and

575
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: yelling at each other. Nay is blaming Matt for hiring

576
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: the silly nurse who Edith ran away from, who sounded

577
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: the alarm too late, and he thinks that she has

578
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: died from exposure. Matt, the other brother says, you're crazy.

579
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: I think she's been kidnapped. It's too much of a

580
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: coincidence that this wealthy woman who's really vulnerable is gone

581
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: and everybody knew that. So the sheriff says, I don't

582
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: know what the hell to think, and he separates both

583
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: of them. I still think these two guys should be

584
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: on the radar, and I don't think they are. With

585
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: the sheriff, they have the most benefit from her death.

586
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, but their relationship is troubling. You know,

587
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 2: they don't like each other, So it doesn't sound like

588
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: these two would coordinate and cooperate in order to get

589
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: rid of Edith. And with what you are saying is

590
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: they individually adored Edith. She's the one that they both like.

591
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: They don't like each other. It almost seems like if

592
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: Matt and they were looking to further their financial gains

593
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: is that they would be knocking each other off and

594
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 2: not Edith. Right that's where their involvement in Edith's disappearance

595
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: right now, I don't know if I'm putting a lot

596
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: of weight on that. At this moment, I want to

597
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: eliminate one of them decided, Well, she's an easy target.

598
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: She goes out by herself, she's got mental illness. It's

599
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: easy to come up with an excuse of why she

600
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: went missing. That doesn't bring suspicion on either Matt Ornay.

601
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: She got lost and yeah she died out there and

602
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: we just haven't found her body. And therefore, now her

603
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 2: inheritance gets divided between these two brothers. I'm assuming based

604
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: on whatever Edith Will said or whatever, you know, the

605
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: family dynamics are, but they're not cooperat at least right now.

606
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: I don't see Matt in Ay cooperating to get rid

607
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 2: of Edith for financial gain. I think one or the

608
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: other would have acted independently.

609
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: And what's interesting is you would think, with the amount

610
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: of hatred these two guys have toward each other, that

611
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: they would blame each other. That's what I would do.

612
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: He did it, he did it, And I mean, then

613
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: you've got the whole fortune to yourself. But obviously they're

614
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: not suspecting each other. You would think that's the first

615
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: place they would go if there was any kind of

616
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: a red flag that anybody saw that one of the

617
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: brothers was involved. So I guess not.

618
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: Well, and they probably are aware that each one of

619
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 2: them has a loving connection to Edith. Yeah, you know,

620
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: so maybe they're not suspecting the other one being capable

621
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 2: of causing Edith any harm just because they know they

622
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: both like Edith.

623
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just know they're capable of being jerks toward

624
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: each other essentially through this whole time. Yes, Okay, now

625
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: we're getting to somebody more credible, because now we're going

626
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: to turn towards a sad part of this story, not

627
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: that a missing woman isn't sad already, but we take

628
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: a bad turn here. Two weeks after Edith disappears two

629
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: weeks so now we're talking about very hot, you know,

630
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: July twenty third getting to be late July, very hot,

631
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: Solano County. Two weeks after she disappears, there's a rancher

632
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: whose property is very close to the Wolf Skills property.

633
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: He says he saw a woman matching Edith's description picking

634
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: blackberries in some bushes. He tries to approach her, and

635
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 1: she took off. They call off the search aroundabouts after that.

636
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 1: They said, we just we can't do it anymore, and

637
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: the sheriff asks all the local hunters just keep an

638
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: eye out, because we know hunters find stuff when they're

639
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: out there. So that's where we are, they say. Two

640
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: weeks later, this guy says she was picking blackberries. I'm

641
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: pretty sure that was her. Two weeks without contacting anybody

642
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: at all or wandering home.

643
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: This rancher does he know Edith or is he just

644
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: also somebody that is aware that Edith has gone missing

645
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 2: in this area where he has a ranch and sees

646
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 2: a woman. If he knew Edith, then I would probably

647
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 2: put greater weight on him saying, Hey, I just saw Edith.

648
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 2: But if he's just following this story in the press,

649
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: I don't know. I have a hard time seeing Edith

650
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: living off the land for two weeks, eating blackberries and

651
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 2: drinking creek water. I don't know. That doesn't seem like

652
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 2: that is Edith.

653
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: Okay. Two months later, this is not good news. September nineteenth,

654
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: there is an eighteen year old young man who is

655
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: the son of a neighboring rancher, who's walking along a

656
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: dried up creek bed. He's looking for a stick to

657
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: knock fruit off, so I know you're going to look

658
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: at a map right now. He finds her body badly decomposed.

659
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: And I want first of all before I say, it's

660
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: a mile and a half from her house. Just a

661
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: mile and a half from her house. I'm surprised the

662
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: animals did not take off all the I'm surprised there's

663
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: anything left or do I not know enough about two

664
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: month old bodies in the heat of the summer to

665
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about here?

666
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 2: Well, her body is found, but do you know the

667
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: condition of her body? You know, badly decomposed. Now in

668
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 2: this particular area, we've already talked about the heat. It's

669
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 2: also a dry heat. So a body that is just

670
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 2: laying on the surface, there is going to be animal predation,

671
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: There's going to be insect activity, but there's also going

672
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: to be a desiccation as the body is exposed to

673
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: this eat, almost like a mummification. And so I can

674
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: visualize what she brought. Her body probably looked like. But

675
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 2: right now, do we have animals that have dispersed or

676
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 2: remains or is her body mostly intact?

677
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: Let me explain what they see. She's still wearing clothing,

678
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: and it's very mysterious. She is able to be identified

679
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: by a cousin and his wife because of her clothing,

680
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,959
Speaker 1: but I also have information on the remnants of what's

681
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: left of her. Do you want to hear that? I'm

682
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: assuming you want to hear.

683
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: That first, of course?

684
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: Okay, of course. So the sheriff says, this seems like

685
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 1: foul play, but I can explain that also in a minute.

686
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: So Edith's body is found face down with her legs

687
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: dangling over a small mound of dirt or a little

688
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: small hill. Does that make sense to you? Can you

689
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: picture that? So far?

690
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: I can picture it for sure.

691
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: One article says that one of her feet is missing.

692
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: The investigators say they think that's either because of a

693
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: small amount of water that's flowing through the creek or because,

694
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: of course the animals. There are wolves all over the place.

695
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: There are three surgeons eventually who look at her body,

696
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: and one of them says that her neck had not

697
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: been broken, and he and another pathologists say they found

698
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: a blood clot in Edith's brain. They don't specify whether

699
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: or not this killed her, but they said it was interesting.

700
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: And that's kind of the end of this. She is

701
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: fully intact except for the foot. She is wearing a

702
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 1: lot of clothing, more clothing than I would have thought.

703
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: And she's in this dry creek bed.

704
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 2: And they're not indicating that there's any injuries, like anything

705
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 2: that suggests a blow to the head.

706
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: The skull has to be there if they're looking at

707
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: the brain, but they're not saying any of that, no

708
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: kind of injuries, not a blow, not anything.

709
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: So the blood clot in the brain, I mean, is

710
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 2: it possible while she was out walking she had a stroke?

711
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: Maybe? I mean, it says the other thing they're trying.

712
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 1: They're really going to start trying to rule out murder.

713
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: Here they're saying that there are no broken bones and

714
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,479
Speaker 1: no poison, and those are the things they were able

715
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: to test for. But maybe there's more information both about

716
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: the clothing and kind of where she might have been,

717
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: which I find really interesting also.

718
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, because right now, you know, right now we don't

719
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 2: have any indicators that today a pathologist would be able

720
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: to say homicide. Where I would be turning My attention

721
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: is where is her body located? How is it positioned?

722
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: Is this something that would be consistent with her putting

723
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: herself at this location, or is it more consistent with

724
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: somebody else putting her there? You know, are there some

725
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 2: indicators to indicate that she had been interacting with somebody?

726
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: I mean it was her body disposed at this location

727
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: versus her just dying at this location.

728
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: Well, one of my questions is, so she's found face

729
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: down with her legs dangling over this mound. I thought

730
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 1: I wondered if one of her feet were missing, if

731
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: her legs are on the mound. I don't know if

732
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: somebody put her there or not, but legs on the mound,

733
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,439
Speaker 1: because maybe a wolf grabbed and tried to drag her

734
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: and kind of ran into this mound and then left

735
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: her when he got her foot. But I was just

736
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: shocked that she was totally intact except for this one foot.

737
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: With all the animals out there, that doesn't surprise.

738
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: You, no, when you start dealing with the small animal.

739
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 2: And you said wolves were all over the place, Well,

740
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 2: as far as I know, they're not all over the

741
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 2: place there today. Okay, how these animals, you know why

742
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: they focus in on select body parts? It all just depends.

743
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: When you are dealing with that larger type of predator

744
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: such as a coyote or a wolf, they're going to

745
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: take their time with the body versus if you're dealing

746
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 2: with a smaller animal, let's say a rodent. You know,

747
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: they're more skittish, and so they'll come out, they'll nibble,

748
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 2: and then you know, the shadow of a bird flies overhead,

749
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 2: and then they go back into their hole, you know,

750
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: and so the focus on just the foot, and that's

751
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: where I would need to see photos. You know. Is

752
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: there an explanation why the animal focused just there? Was

753
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: it near a location where a rodent is just kind

754
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,959
Speaker 2: of accessing a readily available body part in a way

755
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 2: that lowers risk to that smaller animal, or is there

756
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,439
Speaker 2: something more going on. Did you have an injury there

757
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 2: and that's why the animal got focused on that particular

758
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: part of the body. Right now, I'm still kind of

759
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 2: in this. Are we dealing with a homicide? Are we

760
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: dealing with a natural death? Are we dealing with an

761
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 2: accidental death? Does she trip and fall you know, and

762
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 2: now has an internal hemorrhage intracranial type of hemorrhage that

763
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: caused her death. So it's still very nebulous as to

764
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:44,959
Speaker 2: what happened to Edith in my mind.

765
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 1: Well, get ready to feel even more nebulous. I've got

766
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: some bombshell information for you. So Edith's cousin, Reid, comes

767
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: with his wife and they are the ones who identify

768
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: the body. The wife looks at her undergarments and shoes

769
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: that can be identified. This is what's odd. So when

770
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: she was leaving the house, according to the nurse, she

771
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: was wearing a shirt and a skirt, which seems strange

772
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: to hike in, but this is Edith, so we you know,

773
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: whatever she's going to hike in, whatever she wants to

774
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: hike in. When she's found, she is wearing men's brown

775
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 1: overalls mostly worn by carpenters. So some of the articles,

776
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: because this is her inconsistent, you know, some of the

777
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 1: articles say that the shirt that she had been wearing

778
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 1: when she left the house was found in the same

779
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: creek bed about one hundred yards away. Others say the

780
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: shoes were found near the body. But it sounds like

781
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: everybody agrees that she is wearing men's overalls and we

782
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,479
Speaker 1: don't know where the skirt is right now.

783
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 2: So these overalls are not Ediths. Nope, Now this becomes

784
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 2: very sinister. You know. On one hand, you know, let's

785
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 2: say she's out, has a mental break, gets delusional, and

786
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: steals these overalls from you know, some surrounding ranchers property.

787
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: But offenders, you know, when I start, you know, the

788
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 2: types of cases that I work, which oftentimes are predatory

789
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: in nature. Offenders will redress their victims or allow the

790
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 2: victims to redress before killing them. And so these overalls

791
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: on Edith, is this do we actually have a homicide?

792
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: Is this a sexually motivated homicide? And now this offender

793
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: has redressed her using his own garments, you know, nineteen

794
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: twenty nine. They're not worried about DNA or anything like that.

795
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 2: These overalls, at least the way I'm envisioning them provide

796
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 2: an easy handle in order to manipulate a body. It's

797
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 2: very easy to grab clothing to pick a body up,

798
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: versus having to try to grab let's say, a nude

799
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: body that doesn't have the clothing. So if you need

800
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: to drag the body, instead of having to grab the

801
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 2: arms or anything else, you can just grab these over

802
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 2: these these overalls and just move the body easily. So

803
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 2: there could be a practical aspect why these overalls were

804
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: put on her, if that's what's going on. But now

805
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: that opens up the possibility in my mind. Okay, we

806
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: don't have evidence of violence from the autopsy to indicate homicide,

807
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 2: but we now have something that in my experience is

808
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: suspicious enough to where I have to consider, did somebody

809
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: abduct Edith, kill Edith and dispose her body?

810
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: And I think now we can turn back to our

811
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: last witness, the rancher, who I think all of a

812
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: sudden is given a lot more credibility because this creek

813
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: bed is not very far at all from where he

814
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: spotted a woman who turned tail and ran when she

815
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: was picking blackberries. So that was two weeks after she

816
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 1: went missing. But the thing that we're going to want

817
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: to know, is, of course, where the hell was Edith

818
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: if that was her for two weeks? And where did

819
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: she get these overalls?

820
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: The one thing that I want to point out is,

821
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 2: of course, now with her body, what evidence is with

822
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: her body to indicate when she died? And most certainly

823
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: in this day and age, we would be paying attention

824
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 2: to the insect evidence that would give us the best indicator,

825
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: you know, But that's part of what I would be

826
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: wanting to look at. Is Okay, we have a witness

827
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 2: that sees a woman on his property picking blackberries. Does

828
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: the evidence support that Edith was still alive at the

829
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: time this rancher saw the woman picking blackberries? If the

830
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: evidence does suggest that, then that helps with the veracity

831
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 2: of that witness sighting. And then why is Edith just

832
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,720
Speaker 2: out there? Why is she living off the land?

833
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to some evidence that they find on Edith.

834
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: They look all over who overalls? This feels very much

835
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: like an Oscar Heinrich story where they're examining he does

836
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: this in a train robbery. He examines the overalls and

837
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: finds a tiny note. They do the same thing. Actually,

838
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: six years after I wonder if they heard that story.

839
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: Six years after, Oscar Heinrich finds this clue and a

840
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: pair of overalls in a train robbery. The investigators search

841
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: her overalls and find a tiny piece of paper and

842
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: the first thing that they say is they can't make

843
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: out anything except the word and not in ot. But

844
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: they then use a chemical process that I need to

845
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: ask you about, and in this chemical process they find

846
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: these words. Do not give dot dot dot, do not

847
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: show sympathy, dot dot dot, do not speak to any

848
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: nurse dot dot dot, do not speak magic, walk out,

849
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,720
Speaker 1: sleep only in the daytime, and drink water, bathe before

850
00:47:52,880 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: I dress, use gifts, shun all change. Nay finally says, WHOA,

851
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: Maybe this is a problem. I don't know if she

852
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: just wandered off. Maybe there is foul play. But he's

853
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 1: not on board just yet. The sheriff is trying to

854
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: gather more information. Here's the tricky part. One of the

855
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: things is that this creek bed had been searched over

856
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: and over again for what the sheriff says is up

857
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: to two weeks, and they have never found Edith for

858
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: two weeks. Up there, private investigator actually says, well, really,

859
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: what I saw was. They only did it for about

860
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,919
Speaker 1: a week and it was a few times. So if

861
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: she were a victim of homicide, it sounds like somebody

862
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: kept her. But I know that we're thinking maybe not.

863
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: Let's talk about what happens on this property. There's a

864
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: ranch that borders the wolf Skill property. The owner of

865
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: the property is a guy named William Okill comes to

866
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: the sheriff and says, I have a cabin and it's

867
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: been abandoned for years. I never go in there, And

868
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 1: he went in there and then had the sheriff go

869
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: in there. On the stove, there are eggshells and other

870
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: food scraps. The bed looks like it's been recently slept in.

871
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: On the walls, there are various phrases that have been scrolled,

872
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: and these look like words and phrases that Edith would

873
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 1: have written on rocks. She liked to write on rocks

874
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: and on fences during her walk. So it sounds like

875
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: somebody was staying in this cabin, and it sounds to

876
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: you like it's Edith.

877
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: Is that right at this point in time? I would

878
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 2: have to believe it likely was Edith, you know, especially

879
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: with the writings. If that's something that she would do.

880
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: This is really starting to sound like she at some

881
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 2: point had a mental break and had some forethought in

882
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: terms of I want to just disappear, and she either

883
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: knew of the about this cabin or she stumbled across

884
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: the cabin while she was out there just hiding, if

885
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 2: you will. So you know, this is where, you know,

886
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 2: when we start thinking, well, what ultimately happened to Edith?

887
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: You know right now, at least the finding of her

888
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 2: body and the lack of any violence on her body,

889
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 2: at least with what these doctors you mentioned. One was

890
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: a pathologist, but I don't know how experience these individuals

891
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: you know are right, you know, right now it's like, well,

892
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: in order to be concerned this is a homicide, well

893
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 2: we have to have evidence of a homicide, and right

894
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 2: now we don't have that. We have more evidence of

895
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 2: Edith right trying to just disappear because of her mental state,

896
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 2: and then, in all likelihood, either due to exposure or

897
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 2: due to a natural condition this blood clot in the brain,

898
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 2: she ends up dying while she's out there.

899
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: Okay, but I have two things, one of pondering from me,

900
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: and the other one information I haven't told you yet.

901
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: My pondering is where did she get food? I mean,

902
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: if anybody, if she wanders into town, which I'm not

903
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: sure doesn't even sound like there's a town to wander

904
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: into that's close, where is she getting food? Pulled? This

905
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: is a place that's been abandoned according to the owner.

906
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 1: Where does she get this food?

907
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 2: I would imagine in this area, like like I've mentioned,

908
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a very much an agricultural area,

909
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: and there's probably chicken coops. Yeah, you know, she could

910
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 2: just be going into a chicken coop and grabbing some

911
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 2: some of the hen's eggs. So it depends, you know,

912
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 2: does she have a loaf of bread? Did she you know,

913
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: break into you know, maybe one of these rancher's houses.

914
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 2: But you know, in terms of a town, again, the

915
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: town of Fairfield is a distance away. She's not walking

916
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 2: all the way out downtown Fairfield and then all going

917
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 2: all the way back to make his corner. She would

918
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 2: easily be spotted. So I think she's she's living off

919
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: the land. She's living off of the you know, the

920
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 2: the ranchers, you know, whatever she can access. And these blackberries,

921
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 2: you know, these wild blackberries grow in this area. I

922
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 2: had them you know, growing in my yard at one

923
00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: point in the neighboring city of Vaccaville. So at least

924
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 2: right now, I'm not convinced that she's interacting with anybody

925
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 2: as somebody's helping her, you know, or somebody has abducted her.

926
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,919
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking she's hiding and she's just living off

927
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: the land and whatever she can get access to from

928
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 2: the surrounding ranches.

929
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: So one other point that I want to bring up,

930
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: there is another witness, another rancher who does not live

931
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: far from this mysterious cabin, says that three days after

932
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: Edith disappeared, he heard a woman's screams coming from the cabin,

933
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 1: now Edith being Edith. This could have been alone screams,

934
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: you know, delusions. I don't know, but that is the

935
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: only really sinister thing that to me doesn't seem to

936
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: have an explanation except later on, if you believe the

937
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: other rancher. She's out there picking blackberries, and we don't

938
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: have evidence on her body of a stabbing, blunt force trauma, guns,

939
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: I mean, bullets. We don't have evidence of anything. I

940
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: guess it could have been strangulation. If she is murdered,

941
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: we have that blood clot, which you said could have

942
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: been what a stroke.

943
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 2: Essentially, it all depends on where that blood clot is,

944
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 2: the condition of her body, if she has been out there,

945
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 2: and let's say you say she was killed three days

946
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 2: after she went missing, and she's been out there laying

947
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: in this location for two months, the likelihood that those

948
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 2: remains would show evidence of strangulation is very low. Some

949
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,479
Speaker 2: of the structures in the neck could still be there

950
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 2: where a pathologist today would be able to sail, I

951
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 2: see a broken hyoid bone, or I see that the

952
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: trachea has damage to it, or things like that. But

953
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 2: it's very possible she could have been strangled or asphyxiated

954
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,439
Speaker 2: in a manner in which these remains would not show

955
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: the evidence, you know, the petikia that we would see

956
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 2: in the eye, or the congestion in the face or

957
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: in the lungs. So I can't discount homicide. It really

958
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 2: now comes down to the totality of circumstances. And do

959
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: you have Edith wanting to isolate herself due to her

960
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: mental state and she runs across the wrong person who

961
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 2: takes advantage of this victim of opportunity. That is absolutely

962
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 2: a possibility. I would have to consider the totality of

963
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 2: circumstances in order to determine, well, what really happened to Edith.

964
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what the motive would be If she

965
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: is out two weeks later picking blackberries and running away

966
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,439
Speaker 1: from someone. It doesn't seem likely that this is someone

967
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: who's kept in a cabin and, you know, being tortured

968
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,479
Speaker 1: in any way. If you believe that rancher, nobody who's

969
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: reporting going to the bank and demanding money based on her,

970
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 1: it just seems odd, you know. I mean, I know,

971
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: I kind of pitch this as an story murder, but

972
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, most of the way through this I started

973
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: certainly thinking I don't know. This seems like Edith managed

974
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: to survive on her own for at least two weeks,

975
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 1: which is a testament to her survival skills to go undetected.

976
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: They had searched that creek for a couple of weeks

977
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 1: then gave up, So it sounds like some time between

978
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: two weeks of her going missing in the two months

979
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: when she was discovered, she must have wandered out there.

980
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, as of right now, I lean towards

981
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 2: she purposely isolated herself and ended up dying in some manner.

982
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: I'm not getting a sense that this is a homicide

983
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 2: case at this point in time.

984
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: And the Solano County coroner agrees with you. So she

985
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: concluded in the inquest that you know, there's no way

986
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: to determine it was a death from cause unknown is

987
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: the way it was ruled. And she's buried next to

988
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: her parents and and her jerky brothers, who might have

989
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: loved her but certainly did not love each other, are

990
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: in a massive fight. And eventually they put all of

991
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: her money, which is about eighteen million today, into a

992
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: trust and I'm assuming you know, their kids ended up

993
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: getting it. So this woman who it just sounded like

994
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: at some point her brain was telling her I have

995
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: to go, I have to go. She went, and we

996
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: don't know how she died or what happened, but she

997
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: wanted to be out on her own terms. It's such

998
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: a sad ending, but in her head, this seemed to

999
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 1: be the right thing to do.

1000
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that that's really you know, that

1001
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 2: note found in the overalls, you know that really, I

1002
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 2: think is the primary clue as to what happened. And

1003
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: she definitely wanted to just isolate herself. How she died,

1004
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: we don't know. Therefore we can't say, you know, there's

1005
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: somebody involved in her death. You have to have evidence

1006
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 2: of homicide, and there is no evidence of homicide. It's

1007
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 2: just you know, kind of a I could see early on,

1008
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: well what is going on as the sheriff is investigating this,

1009
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 2: But as the clues start to add up, the finding

1010
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,439
Speaker 2: from the coroner's inquest was ultimately the correct decision based

1011
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 2: on the information that you've provided.

1012
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I always say I love a good mystery,

1013
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: and this is not a mystery that was appropriate for

1014
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: my children on New Year's Eve. But I came close

1015
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: to telling it because it is a thing mystery, and

1016
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: poor Edith through this whole thing. You know, I feel awful,

1017
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: And it's just a commentary on you know, how far

1018
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: we've come with mental health treatment and what a sad

1019
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: situation for this woman.

1020
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, but this is again, you know, I think,

1021
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 2: a fundamental message because we talk about cases and how

1022
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 2: cases are investigated with the information that was available during

1023
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 2: the era in which the case occurred, and here in

1024
00:57:55,960 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty nine. You know, part of any case is victimology,

1025
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: and you know the information about Edith, her mental illness,

1026
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 2: her prior wanderings away from institutions. You know, you see

1027
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: how her prior behaviors are predictive of what happened to

1028
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 2: Edith in this situation. You know, I think that really

1029
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: becomes a message. It's not so much the mystery of

1030
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: what truly happened to Edith, it's learning from Edith's case.

1031
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 2: So when we have other cases, like I mentioned the

1032
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: Bodfish case, there is patterns of behaviors that certain people

1033
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 2: will do, and that's where understanding the victim is so

1034
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 2: important to getting clues as to what really did happen.

1035
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: Well, next week we'll have a new mystery that you know,

1036
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 1: hopefully will be as intriguing as this one.

1037
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 2: All right, well, I'm looking forward to it.

1038
00:58:53,640 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: Thanksgate. This has been an exactly write production for our.

1039
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 2: Sources and show notes go to Exactlyrightmedia dot com slash

1040
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 2: Buried Bones sources.

1041
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Alexis Emosi.

1042
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 2: Research by Maren mcclashan, Ali Elkin, and Kate Winkler Dawson.

1043
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: Our mixing engineer is Ben Tolliday.

1044
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Tom Bryfogel.

1045
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 1: Our artwork is by Vanessa.

1046
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 2: Lilac, Executive produced by Karen Kilgaroff, Georgia hard Stark, and

1047
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 2: Daniel Kramer.

1048
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,640
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1049
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1050
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1051
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Speaker 2: Gilded Age story of murder and the race to decode

1052
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Speaker 2: the criminal mind, is available now

1053
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1054
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