1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Applecarplay. 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: And then Roudoto with the Bloomberg Business App. 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 3: Everybody's peeking out of one eye, clearing out the cobwebs, 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 3: trying to start the week, fighting through traffic. 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: To get to work unless you're in Washington. 10 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 3: No traffic today because Whilemaker's just left town, or about 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 3: two week recess. 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 4: But i'll tell you. 13 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 3: What Monday's looking up for Donald Trump. Think of the 14 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 3: anxiety he might have felt going to bed last night 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 3: thinking about the bond. This thing was what four hundred 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 3: and fifty four million dollars. He said he only had 17 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: one hundred million, not to mention the other one, the 18 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 3: Stormy Daniel's case, is going to get a new trial 19 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 3: date today at some point, we're told. But look at 20 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: this headline. Trump bond cut by sixty eight percent. This 21 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 3: just happened, So we're about to likely find out how 22 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 3: much money Donald Trump actually has because he said previously 23 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 3: he could only cover a bond of up to one 24 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 3: hundred million dollars, otherwise he'd need to sell properties. Now 25 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: it's one hundred and seventy five million while he appeals 26 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 3: this verdict this just dropped a short time ago, while 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 3: he awaits a trial date in the Brag case, and 28 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 3: that's been a doozy if you listen to the judge 29 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 3: in that courtroom this morning. Both of these are going 30 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: to bring news today one way or the other. The 31 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 3: moment of truth. As we said on the terminal, he'll 32 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: either post bond or not, and they've already got apparently 33 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 3: Lean's set to hit two properties of Donald Trump's in 34 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 3: Westchester County, and then whether we're going to get an 35 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 3: actual trial date for Brag. Both of these will tell 36 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 3: us an enormous amount as we head into the throes 37 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 3: of this general election campaign. And we start our conversation 38 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 3: today with a new voice, Robert mc worder. We wanted 39 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: to talk with somebody who had experienced, specifically in dealing 40 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 3: with bond issues like this, a constitutional law expert and 41 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 3: practicing criminal defense and civil rights lawyer in Maricopa County. Robert, 42 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: it's great to see you. What's your reaction to this 43 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 3: dollar figure being cut by so much. Why would they 44 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 3: do this the day of if it just made life 45 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 3: a lot easier for Donald Trump? 46 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 4: Or was that the aim? 47 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 5: Well, I think that was Trump's aim and the Trump 48 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 5: defense teams aim. I think it's kind of sad. I've 49 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 5: been practicing for over thirty years, and I have never 50 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 5: seen a criminal defendant receive more consideration, more bend over 51 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 5: backwards from the criminal justice system at all parts than 52 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 5: has Donald Trump. There's an amount of loss here. The 53 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 5: bond is meant to cover the loss so that when 54 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 5: he eventually loses on appeal, that his victim, which is 55 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 5: the people of the state of New York, can be 56 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 5: made whole. And the court has just given him another pass. 57 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 5: I got to tell you, Yeah, I'm really wondering whether 58 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 5: he can even raise one hundred and seventy five million. 59 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 3: Well, that's a great question right now. As I mentioned, 60 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: Donald Trump says he has one hundred million, So we're 61 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 3: about to find out exactly how much money he's got, 62 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: although I suspect it would be a lot easier for 63 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 3: him to loan or to borrow seventy five than it 64 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 3: would have for the whole freight. 65 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 4: Here. 66 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 3: Total damages in this case four hundred and sixty four 67 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 3: million dollars, including ten million in penalties against his sons 68 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 3: and Alan Weiselberg. And it's one hundred and twenty percent 69 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 3: of the verdict. Right, so he owes even more than that. 70 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 4: What would compel the court to do this? 71 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 5: Well, you know, it is an unprecedented case in terms 72 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,839 Speaker 5: of its size and its scope. I also think what's 73 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 5: compelling the court. There may have be some people on 74 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 5: the court who are just pro Trump, but I think 75 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 5: more than that is he keeps making claims that he's 76 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 5: treated unfairly, and the courts have been known over backwards 77 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 5: to make sure that they are treating him more than fairly, 78 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 5: So that could be what's going on. Look, four hundred 79 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 5: and whatever million dollars is a lot of money. You 80 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 5: can accept that somebody maybe doesn't have that cash on hand. 81 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 5: I think the underlying issue here, though, is that he 82 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 5: does not have the value in his properties. He doesn't 83 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 5: have the collateral to su wort. Look, a bond is 84 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 5: nothing more than kind of a loan. It's a fancy loan. 85 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 5: It's designed for. 86 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 4: The criminal justice system. 87 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 5: In this sense, it's kind of like when you post 88 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 5: a bond to get out of jail before trial. Well, 89 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 5: this is posting a bond so you keep going while 90 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 5: your case is pending appeal. So it's kind of the 91 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 5: same thing, right, And a bond is just a loan 92 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 5: made by a bond company that intends to make a 93 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 5: lot of money off of it and so that you 94 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 5: don't have to post the fall amount in cash. But 95 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 5: you got to put up something. You got to put 96 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 5: up your house, you got to put up your valuable property. 97 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 5: What I think is this is all showing is he 98 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 5: doesn't have the value. He is not worth enough off 99 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 5: for anybody to give him that loan, that bond, And 100 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 5: again the courts are just bending over backwards to make 101 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 5: sure that it looks like he's being traded fairly, when 102 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 5: no other criminal defendant in thirty years of practice if 103 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 5: I've ever seen gotten that kind of consideration. 104 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: Well, there you have it. Your experience speaks for itself. 105 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 3: I can only imagine what Letitia James thinks about all 106 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 3: of this, because if Donald Trump doesn't have the money, 107 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 3: there is potentially another answer, and that is this SPAC deal. 108 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 4: It's about to happen. 109 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: And Bloomberg just now is reporting that Trump media and 110 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 3: the folks he's working with are set to begin trading. 111 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: This is the truth Social Spack March twenty six. That's tomorrow. 112 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 3: DJT and djt WW are going to be the ticker symbols. 113 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 3: We knew this was coming, of course, Robert. The problem 114 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: is Donald Trump can't actually get that money without special 115 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 3: approval until a lock up period ends down the road. 116 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 3: He could, however, borrow against that as collateral. I suppose, 117 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 3: because you pointed out something interesting. If they start seizing 118 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 3: properties here, he's already got a debt against those properties, right, 119 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: So how do you value them? 120 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 5: Well, you have to take a look at how much 121 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 5: leans are on those properties. And so the first thing 122 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 5: is Donald Trump slaps his name on a lot of properties. 123 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 5: That doesn't mean he owns the majority interests in those properties. 124 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 5: In many cases, he might own a little bit more 125 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 5: than the sign that's on the front of the building. 126 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 5: I mean, he doesn't necessarily own the whole building. Right 127 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 5: then what he owns he is also borrowed in order 128 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 5: to make another purchase. So it's this little kind of 129 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 5: domino thing that he's got going. And I've seen many 130 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 5: clients with it. That happens what happens eventually is one 131 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 5: of the properties goes bad and then the dominoes all 132 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 5: start to fall backwards and somebody's charged. 133 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:46,679 Speaker 4: With the crime. 134 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 5: Well, the event here was basically a criminal charge. And 135 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 5: after a very long deliberative process, found that Donald Trump 136 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 5: and his organization as a fraud. And now you got 137 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 5: to go back and see if there's any value in 138 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 5: all these these properties, when in reality did he inflated 139 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 5: all those values when he wanted to get loans, and 140 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 5: then he deflated the values when he had to pay taxes. 141 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 5: So he's defrauded the taxpayers in doing this. And frankly, 142 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 5: if I can just go on here, I think a 143 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 5: point needs to be made about where the injury is 144 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 5: to people. Donald Trump and his team have made this 145 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 5: big claim that hey, all these deals went through the banks, 146 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 5: made money, there's no victims. Well that's not really true. 147 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 5: Donald Trump, by making fraudulent loan applications, has taken money 148 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 5: out of the system that would have otherwise gone to 149 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 5: valid loan applications. So if you own a restaurant and 150 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 5: let's say in Manhattan, and you want to add a 151 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 5: dining room and you need to go get a loan 152 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 5: to do it, you make a valid loan application. You 153 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 5: show your assets and the bank decides whether you're a 154 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 5: good risk to loan money to Right well, right now, 155 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 5: that money isn't there because Donald Trump took it when 156 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 5: he made a false loan application. And that's what's so 157 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 5: important about this Attorney General's case, because you've got to 158 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 5: maintain the validity of the system in order to make 159 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 5: sure people are treated fairly when they go into their 160 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 5: loan applications. That's the damage to people, and that's the 161 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 5: damage to the system. 162 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: We're spending time with Attorney Robert McWherter on balance of power, 163 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 3: and Robert, as I'm listening to you, we are getting 164 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 3: some insight as to what is happening inside the courtroom 165 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 3: in New York. Now, this is of course Alvin Bragg's case, 166 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 3: the hush money case against Donald Trump, that had been delayed. 167 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 3: This was supposed to be the first day of the trial. 168 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 3: In fact, now it's a hearing that will likely establish 169 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 3: a new date. It had been delayed because of a 170 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 3: big dump of evidence that fell on the case a 171 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 3: couple of weeks back. Here we go, Robert, this is 172 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 3: breaking news right now, April fifteen. The judges, speaking as 173 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 3: I talk to you. The US Attorney's office is not 174 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: under the district attorney's control. He says, the Manhattan Attorney's 175 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 3: office did due diligence. This defendant will not suffer any 176 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 3: reasonable prejudice because he has received enough time. The judge says, 177 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 3: jury selection will begin on April fifteenth. Robert, what do 178 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 3: you think. 179 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 5: Well, here's what's going on here. The Trump team had 180 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 5: made a request of the US attorneys, the federal US attorneys, 181 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 5: the federal prosecutors for their information on this case, and 182 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 5: the federal prosecutors then turned that over to the state 183 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 5: prosecutors Braggs team, and then they turned it over to 184 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 5: the Trump team. Now, this information is pretty much redundant 185 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 5: to what the Trump team already had from the state prosecutors, 186 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 5: but Trump's team used that as an excuse to go 187 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 5: into court and accuse Bragg of withholding evidence when the 188 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 5: evidence wasn't even in his hands, and then arguing that 189 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 5: they should get a continuance in order to deal with 190 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 5: all this evidence, majority of which I would think is 191 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 5: nothing more than redundant to what they already had from 192 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 5: the state case. So once again you have to look 193 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 5: at you know, there's trial tactics, but then there's an 194 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 5: overall strategy here. Donald Trump's overall strategy is to delay, delay, delay. 195 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 5: Every case is a delay, and then he thinks he's 196 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 5: going to become president and he'll get them all dismissed 197 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 5: or he'll be beyond Well, is. 198 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 3: There a way for him to delay this now? Robert, 199 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 3: we have April fifteenth, and if just if, I want 200 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 3: to make sure our listeners and viewers understand if they're 201 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 3: just joining us, this is breaking news now the first 202 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 3: criminal trial of a former president is set now to 203 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 3: begin April fifteenth. Number one, Does he have a chance 204 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: to delay it? And Robert, knowing this would be a 205 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: six week trial that would allow ample room for Jack 206 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 3: Smith to conduct his trial, should the Supreme Court allow him? 207 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 4: Right? 208 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely. I think what's going on is things are 209 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 5: finally coming to a head now. These cases were all 210 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 5: filed before Donald Trump was ever a candidate, So his 211 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 5: claims that this is all motivated, et cetera, are just wrong, 212 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 5: that the facts don't bear that out. It is kind 213 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 5: of coming to a head. People are finally trying to 214 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 5: get these cases to come to resolution despite Trump's work 215 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 5: to delay them all. And that's where we are now. 216 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 5: I do not see anything coming up at this point 217 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 5: that would delay the April fifteenth trial. And so now 218 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 5: it's time for Donald Trump to face the music. You know, 219 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 5: I'll make another quick point here. You know, Donald Trump 220 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 5: keeps talking about everything being a witch hunt, etc. Well, 221 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 5: if that's the case, he should be asking for his 222 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 5: jury as soon as possible. He should be saying, I 223 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 5: want my trial right now because I want to show 224 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 5: how this is a witch hunt and how I'm innocent. 225 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 4: Now he doesn't do that. 226 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 5: What he does is he wants to avoid the jury, 227 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 5: he wants to avoid the court, and meanwhile makes these 228 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 5: political arguments that it's a witch hunt when it's nothing 229 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 5: of the sort. If it's truly as a witch hunt, 230 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 5: then we go and protect that with a jury of 231 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 5: our peers in America. That's how we do it in America. 232 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 3: Well, we've got a redhead on the terminal. People's phones 233 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 3: are buzzing around the country right now, around the world 234 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 3: who subscribe to Bloomberg. Trump's hush money trial date now 235 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: set for April fifteenth. According to the judge, this happening 236 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: just a moment ago. And if Donald Trump speaks, we 237 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 3: will bring you some remarks. I suspect he did speak 238 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 3: on the way in, and there's a fair chance that 239 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 3: he will on the way out. 240 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: Here. 241 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 3: This is a former president of the United States now 242 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: set for criminal trial, and based on what we're hearing 243 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 3: from Robert mcwerder here, it's unlikely that he will have 244 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 3: any further opportunity to delay this case. So that's going 245 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 3: to be one trial, Robert that takes place before the 246 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 3: election of twenty twenty four. 247 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 5: I don't see how that's avoidable. I think that's going 248 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 5: to happen now. 249 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 3: In terms of the Supreme Court, there will be arguments 250 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: heard on April twenty fifth when it comes to the 251 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 3: presidential immunity question. That would likely then mean a ruling 252 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 3: at some point from the Court in June, maybe late June, 253 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 3: maybe the last thing they do before they walk out 254 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 3: the door. Here in that world, that leaves enough time 255 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 3: for a second trial in this case, Jack Smith's trial. 256 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 5: Yes, you know what I find interesting about that is 257 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 5: Donald Trump on truth social I think it was just 258 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 5: last night of the night before was saying that Joe 259 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 5: Biden should be prosecuted for his witch hunt and all 260 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 5: that kind of stuff for what he's doing. But if 261 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 5: you take Trump's own arguments in the presidential immunity case, 262 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 5: then Joe Biden shouldn't be prosecuted for anything while he 263 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 5: acts as president. Donald Trump is claiming the president should 264 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 5: have these broad powers to do anything in office. Well, 265 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 5: if that's the case, then Joe Biden should not be 266 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 5: prosecuted for anything. Even though I think Trump's claims are outlandish, 267 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 5: but he's defeating his own arguments quite frankly by making 268 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 5: those kinds of statements. What's going on with the Supreme 269 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 5: Court is interesting. I don't see how they're going to 270 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 5: give Donald Trump this broad immunity that he's asking for. 271 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 5: The case President is the case that's happened in the 272 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 5: United States versus Nixon. And what I think the Court 273 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 5: is going to do is they gave Trump the win 274 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 5: on the Colorado case, but I don't think they're going 275 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 5: to give him the win on that. And the Court 276 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 5: under John Roberts is very concerned, especially Chief Justice Roberts, 277 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 5: about maintaining the Court's legitimacy as an institution, and this 278 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 5: is their way to do it, is to maintain that 279 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 5: legitimacy by finding against the president president, which is really 280 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 5: what the law should dictate anyway, So that would be 281 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 5: my prediction of what's going to go on with that. 282 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: Spoken from a man who literally wrote the book on 283 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 3: the fourteenth Amendment, Robert, I'm glad we could talk today. 284 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 4: How could we have imagined what. 285 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 3: We would experience here together? I'm glad you joined us. 286 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 3: Robert mcwherterer criminal attorney Slayton Roebuck. And he's got his 287 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 3: own office as well, having spent to his point thirty 288 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 3: years doing this. The bond has been reduced by more 289 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 3: than two thirds. We'll find out if he can pay it. 290 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 3: And we have trial date now April fifteenth. That's the 291 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 3: Alvin braggcase. Both of these issues resolved this Monday morning 292 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 3: in New York with the Echo Chamber here in Washington. 293 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew And speaking of which, we'll have a. 294 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: Lot more on this. 295 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 3: Our panel will be here a little later in the 296 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 3: hour to react to what we have learned here together today. 297 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 3: Aren't you glad you tuned in at high noon? That's 298 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 3: why you take this show live on the lunch break. 299 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens 300 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then. 301 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: Royd Otto with the Bloomberg Business App. 302 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 303 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 304 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 4: Should we get back to Jim Ziron? He was interrupted. 305 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: We were interrupted in our conversation when Donald Trump started 306 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: speaking something. 307 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 4: We wanted to make sure you heard. 308 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 3: Former Assistant US Attorney for the Southern Districts of New 309 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 3: York and he's the host of conversations with Jim Ziron 310 00:15:58,440 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 3: on PBS. 311 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 4: It's good to have you back here, Jim. 312 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 3: After what you just heard, I think we can bank 313 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 3: on a trial beginning on April fifteenth. 314 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 4: Did you learn anything else? 315 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 6: Well, it was hard to learn anything because there was 316 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:20,239 Speaker 6: a lie after lie after lie, misstatement after misstatement after misstatement. 317 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 6: What he said was classic Roy Kohane, going after the prosecutors, 318 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 6: going after the judges, going after the justice system. And 319 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 6: there's absolutely nothing he said which could be said in court. 320 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 6: At the time of the trial. He did move to 321 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 6: dismiss the case on grounds of prosecutorial misconduct by the case, 322 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 6: I mean the case in New York, and the judge 323 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 6: dismissed it out of hand. He did move to delay 324 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 6: the case. Although he's complaining now about the delay, He's 325 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 6: constantly moved to delay the case, and that was denied 326 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 6: out of hand. His dates are absolutely cock eyed. Alvin 327 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 6: Bragg did not take office until January one, twenty twenty two. 328 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 6: Pomerantz was in the brag office only a short period 329 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 6: of time. He was in the Vance office before that. 330 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 6: And this is a case that was brought in the 331 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 6: normal course. They had to be investigated by the grand jury. 332 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 6: The witnesses had to be interviewed and had to testify 333 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 6: before the grand jury. And there is no basis whatsoever 334 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 6: to his statements, as he pointed out so much. He 335 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 6: says his speculative. He said October seventh wouldn't have happened 336 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 6: if he'd been president. What's the basis for that? He 337 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 6: said that Ukraine wouldn't have happened had he been president. 338 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 6: What's the basis for that? Because his pal Putin wouldn't 339 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 6: have done it as a favor to him. It's ridiculous. 340 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 6: There was inflation when he was the president. 341 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 7: As well. Jim to talk about how his house was 342 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 7: rated at Moro Lago. In fact, there was a search 343 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 7: warrant when the FBI conducted that search, and he used 344 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 7: though as evidence, even though rated perhaps is not the 345 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 7: proper way to characterize it. It was a warrant, a 346 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 7: warranted search. He said that was evidence of weaponization by 347 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 7: the DOJ and FBI. Just to remind us here, if 348 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 7: you will, of what the actual relationship is between the 349 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 7: Department of Justice as it pertains to these cases with 350 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 7: the former president and what role, if any, President Biden 351 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 7: has in any of this. 352 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 6: Well, first of all, as President Biden has had no 353 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 6: role in our federal system. The president appoints the attorney general, 354 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 6: and here the Attorney General appointed Jack Smith as special counsel. 355 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 6: You're absolutely right about the Fourth Amendment. This was not 356 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 6: a warrantless search. It was a search with a warrant 357 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 6: that issued out of the district court on the showing 358 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 6: of probable cause. And he calls it a raid. The 359 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 6: courts have said it was not a raid, and he 360 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 6: can't characterize it as a raid. This is all meet 361 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 6: for his base, but he persists in telling these lies 362 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 6: on the premise that if he tells them over and 363 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 6: over again, someone may believe it. Now, Trump, it's Trump 364 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 6: who tried to who says he's going to weaponize the 365 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 6: justice system. He wants to execute the former Chairman of 366 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 6: the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Millie. He wants to 367 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 6: be a dictator for a day, and don't believe it's 368 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 6: only going to be for one day. And his rhetoric 369 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 6: and his lies are the classic rhetoric of a dictator, 370 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 6: because the dictators Hitler Perone others, first talk about the 371 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 6: decline in the country. It's called decline. People have written 372 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 6: about it, and you say the country is going to 373 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 6: the dogs. And then you have to blame someone. So 374 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 6: whom is he blaming. He's blaming the immigrants, and he's 375 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 6: blaming the justice system. And it's classic Roy Kohane for 376 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 6: him to blame individuals in the justice system and to 377 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 6: personalize the justice system, which is completely contrary to an 378 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 6: undermines our rule of law. 379 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 3: Well, Jim, I appreciate how listen closely you were listening 380 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 3: to Donald Trump and helping us clear up some of 381 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 3: this stuff in real time. 382 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 4: Here. 383 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 3: If Donald Trump cannot post bond in the civil case today, 384 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 3: do you believe Letitia James will begin seizing properties or 385 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 3: is that a threat? 386 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 2: Oh? 387 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 6: No, she certainly will begin seizing properties. But I believe that, 388 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 6: based on every indication, that he has the wherewithal to 389 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 6: post a cash bond or to post a bond for 390 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 6: the one hundred and seventy five million dollars which he'll 391 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 6: post within the ten day period. The real question is 392 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 6: what's going to happen to the appeal on the merits. 393 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 6: And this is just a little bit of gamesmanship, but 394 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 6: it's very well settled in the law that you don't 395 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 6: get a stay of a judgment because you appeal. You 396 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 6: get a stay of the judgment only if you post 397 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 6: a bond. Lawyers call it a supersedious bond because it 398 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 6: supersedes the judgment. And here Donald Trump had to post 399 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 6: a bond, and he said that he didn't have the 400 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,959 Speaker 6: money to post the bond for a half million dollars, 401 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 6: and he said that in court, and then he publicly 402 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 6: and said he had the money and that there would 403 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 6: be no wordship. So he's all over the lot. 404 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 7: Well and Jim. Of course, in the civil case, it 405 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 7: is a civil case. This was a ruling by a 406 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 7: judge both that the fraud had been committed and then 407 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 7: what he needed to pay in damages as a result. 408 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 7: In the criminal case. Though this will be a trial 409 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 7: by jury, it will be a jury of his peers. 410 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 7: This is how the system works here in the United States. 411 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 7: And just keeping in mind here that this is historic 412 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 7: and that we are talking about a former president, someone 413 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 7: the American people probably know best out of any public 414 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 7: figure out there. How hard will it be come April fifteenth, 415 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 7: when they begin jury selection to actually find a jury 416 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 7: that can be unbiased against Trump. 417 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 6: Well, Trump is of course a national figure. It'll be 418 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 6: very difficult to find jurors who have not heard of 419 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 6: him and have not formed some opinion about him. But 420 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 6: through examination of the jurors, the court can probe whether 421 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,239 Speaker 6: there is any bias against him that would prevent the 422 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 6: juror from deciding the issue based on the evidence presented 423 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 6: to them in court. 424 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: Now, in the E. 425 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 6: Gene Carroll case, which Trump lost, the jurors were asked 426 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 6: questions like have you ever attended a Trump rally? Do 427 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 6: you believe that Biden won the last presidential election? And 428 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 6: answers to questions like that would disclose bias. There might 429 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 6: be other questions that might disclose bias. But the real 430 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 6: question is you'd say to the juror can you serve 431 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 6: as a fair and impartial juror and decide the question 432 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 6: in accordance with the evidence presented to you at the trial. 433 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 6: Most of these arguments that Trump has made, if not all, 434 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 6: would never be admissible in a court of law. 435 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 4: The case is going to be. 436 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 6: Decided the evidence which involves the payments to the porn 437 00:23:53,920 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 6: star and Stormy Daniels and his efforts to conceal it, 438 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 6: and the judge will give instructions to the jury as 439 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 6: to whether that involves a violation of New York law. 440 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 6: It's called falsification of business records, with the underlying crimes 441 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 6: being election fraud and tax fraud. And that's what's in 442 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 6: the indictment, all. 443 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 7: Right, Jim Siron, thank you so much for reacting in 444 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 7: real time, not just to the ruling from the judge 445 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 7: about when this trial will begin today, but of course 446 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 7: the remarks we got the former president as we heard them. 447 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: Jims Iron, you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. 448 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at noon Eastern on. 449 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: Apple car Play and then Roudo with the Bloomberg Business app. 450 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 451 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 452 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 7: Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzy, no Bloomberg Politics contributors, are 453 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 7: both with us. So I'm sure Rick and Jeanie that 454 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 7: you heard the former president speaking just as we did 455 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 7: once again and an opportunity to, I guess, address a 456 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 7: legal issue he is facing, but really use it as 457 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 7: a campaign speech to talk about Russia, the border evs 458 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 7: worked their way in there a few other policy areas 459 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 7: as well. I guess, Rick, at what point does it 460 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 7: have to stop being campaign speeches when he's fighting these 461 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 7: legal battles or is this going to keep working for him? 462 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 8: No, I have no doubt that in Donald Trump's mind, 463 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 8: maybe different than his campaign managers, he sees this as 464 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 8: part of the campaign, that it's a forum that he 465 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 8: otherwise wouldn't get. If he had held an event somewhere today, 466 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 8: we would not be broadcasting live his comments, and so 467 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 8: I think in his mind this is a higher better 468 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,719 Speaker 8: use of his time is sitting in a courtroom. In 469 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 8: most cases, he has not been required to be there. 470 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 4: He's elected to do. 471 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 8: It because he sees the value in getting this kind 472 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 8: of attention, and arguably it's not been a problem for him. 473 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 8: You look at the survey. There's never been a instance 474 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 8: that I recall where the numbers dip because of an 475 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 8: appearance he had at one of these trials. And the 476 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 8: fact that he says that he's willing to testify probably 477 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 8: strikes fear in the hearts of the campaign and the 478 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 8: lawyers that represent him. But he sees it as an 479 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 8: unbelievable opportunity. It's like a debate without the opposition, or 480 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 8: the opposition who you can pummel all day long. And 481 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 8: so the reality is he's he's going to do what 482 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 8: he thinks is in his self interest right now. Using 483 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 8: the legal system to run for president is what he's doing. 484 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 8: There's really very little about the case he talked about today. 485 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,239 Speaker 8: It was really all about running for president. And so 486 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 8: if he can make these things, these cases about him trying, 487 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 8: you know, Biden, trying to deny him the presidency, then 488 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 8: voters will believe these are a campaign stop and then 489 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 8: that's when he gets his victory that he's looking for. 490 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 3: That's a pretty remarkable world to be in here, Genie. 491 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 3: Joe Biden takes a lot of flack for when he's 492 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 3: having a bad day. Maybe he's a little difficult to 493 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,479 Speaker 3: understand maybe he just downright looks tired. 494 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 4: People say he looks old. 495 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 3: Can't always understand what you're saying, depending on the day. 496 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 4: I don't know. 497 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 3: Again who the audience was for that address, but it 498 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 3: strikes me that these stem winders that are just going 499 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 3: with no direction. He's not reading a speech, He's just 500 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 3: kind of following this stream of thought. Naming names would 501 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 3: be very confusing for voters. Does this change anyone's mind? 502 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 3: Does this convince an independent, undecided voter that the government 503 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 3: is targeting Donald Trump? 504 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 5: Joe? 505 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 9: Are you saying that Mark Pomeranz is not on the 506 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 9: lead mind of all voters across the country. I mean, 507 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 9: there was so much of this that was just you know, 508 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 9: non sequiturs winding around, and you guys covered so beautifully 509 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 9: so many of the foods, from the idea that there 510 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 9: is collusion with the Justice Department at the federal level 511 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 9: and the state to the idea that there was no 512 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 9: inflation under Trump and the Ukraine withdrawal and all the rest. 513 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 9: But you know, while I was listening to it, I 514 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 9: was just thinking, you know, a few hours earlier, we 515 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 9: had Senator Marco Rubio on ABC the Sunday Morning Show 516 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,719 Speaker 9: and what was he talking about? And I think this 517 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 9: gives us a sense as to how much what Trump 518 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 9: is saying resonates with people, including mainstreamers. Theoretically, like Marco Rubio, 519 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 9: he was talking about how he would be honored to 520 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 9: be considered a vice presidential nominee for Donald Trump. He 521 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 9: was talking about the fact that the world was safer 522 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 9: under Donald Trump, that there were, you know, challenges in 523 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 9: the twenty twenty election. I mean, the list goes on 524 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 9: and that is a sitting senator from the state of Florida. 525 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 9: So I think if you know as much of these 526 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 9: falsehoods as Donald Trump lays out in these speeches, there 527 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 9: is a big chunk of not only his voters, but 528 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 9: the republic Party and Independence across the country who believe 529 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 9: what he says. And that does bring us to the 530 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 9: fence sitters and the Independence and the moderates. But the 531 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 9: reality is there is an audience for what he is saying. 532 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 9: And my question to this judge is are we going 533 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 9: to have to hear this every day or is there 534 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 9: going to be some kind of gag order when this 535 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 9: trial goes into effect on April fifteenth to shut some 536 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 9: of this down. 537 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 7: Well, Jenny brings up a really good point, Rick, that 538 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 7: there is obviously a sizable chunk of the electorate, the 539 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 7: electorate that is voting for Trump and the Republican primaries 540 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 7: that has made him at this point the presumptive Republican 541 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 7: nominee that does believe a lot of what he says 542 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 7: to be true. This idea that the Department of Justice, 543 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 7: the FBI, the judicial system overall is being weaponized against him. 544 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 7: And at a certain point when you look at the 545 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 7: facts and look at perhaps the fiction isn't perception reality, 546 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 7: And how do you deal with that if you're an 547 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 7: opposing campaign. 548 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 8: Yeah, no, Look, this is the challenge for even news 549 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 8: organizations to cover him, not just the opposing campaign, is 550 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 8: that he does throw out all these statistics. He talked 551 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,719 Speaker 8: about fifteen million illegal immigrants. There's no data to support that. 552 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 8: When you ask his campaign we'd like you to tell 553 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 8: us where you got that number, they give you links 554 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 8: that actually have nothing to do with that. So, yeah, 555 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 8: I mean, do you let him say these things unchallenged 556 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 8: like we did today? Do you stop in the middle 557 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 8: of broadcasts and say this is actually incorrect. We've seen 558 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 8: a lot of news organizations struggle with that. I think 559 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 8: it's easier actually for the campaign because the Biden campaign 560 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 8: can just put commercial after commercials saying you know, Donald 561 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 8: Trump led about this, Donald Trump led about that, and 562 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 8: they can use their money and advertising strength and a 563 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 8: bully pulpit of the presidency to push back on that. 564 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 8: And frankly, part of the complaint that a lot of 565 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 8: Democrats have had about this campaign is they haven't been 566 00:30:59,680 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 8: doing that. 567 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 4: They kind of let. 568 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 8: Trump be Trump all during the early primary stages. Maybe 569 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 8: they were optimistic that some Republican would emerge and give 570 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 8: them a hard time. That didn't happen, And only now 571 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 8: have they become sort of more aggressive and pushing back 572 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 8: on some of these things. But some of that damage 573 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 8: is done. I mean, you've seen how he's consolidated his 574 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 8: strength around the party to the point where senators like 575 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 8: Marco Rubio have completely changed their tune about some of 576 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 8: his policies are now willing to participate in his administration. 577 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 8: Do not underestimate, as our previous guest said, the power 578 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 8: of the Roy Cohen. You know, attack, attack, attack right, 579 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 8: and just attack your opponent, attack the judges, attack anybody 580 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,479 Speaker 8: who disagrees with me what I say is right. And 581 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 8: that's all that matters, and that's the campaign for Donald Trump. 582 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 8: And so you know, the question that the Biden campaign 583 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 8: has to do is what's the most effective way of 584 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 8: tamping that down so that it is not something that 585 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 8: voters start to agree with only because Donald Trump says so. 586 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 3: All right, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzino our signature panel 587 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 3: with us today in the heat of the moment, and 588 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 3: we have had some breaking news today. Thanks to both 589 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 3: of you Bloomberg Politics contributors for the insights on what 590 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 3: we heard from Donald Trump. 591 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ken 592 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then 593 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: Rodoto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen 594 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 595 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: Just say Alexa Play. Bloomberg eleven thirty joining us. 596 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 7: I'm pleased to say is Jonathan Panicoff, Atlantic Council Gocroft 597 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 7: Middle East Security Initiative Director. Jonathan. Great to have you 598 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 7: back here on Bloomberg Television and Radio. I would just 599 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 7: love to get your reaction to the consequence of this 600 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 7: Security Council resolution, what real impact it will have on 601 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 7: the behavior of Israel, considering it did draw an immediate 602 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 7: reaction from the Israeli government in terms of canceling this 603 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 7: delegation's visit. 604 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 10: Well, great to be back with you, Thanks for having me. Look, 605 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 10: I don't think there's actually going to be much changed 606 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 10: one way or the other. At the end of the day, 607 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 10: what's gonna change is really behavior, even in the short term, 608 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 10: is whether or not there's a hash that's negotiation deal 609 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 10: that comes about, and that's a negotiation happening with Egypt, 610 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 10: with cut there and with the US that was recognized 611 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 10: in the UN Security Council resolution. I don't think this 612 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 10: resolution that was actually going to make a huge difference, 613 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 10: at least in the immediate term. 614 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 3: So Israel wanted a veto, they did not get it. 615 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 3: What does that mean now for the chances of a 616 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 3: ceasefire or is it on to Rafa? 617 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't think it really changes the chance of 618 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 10: a ceasefire. Blincoln's been in the region, They've been meeting 619 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 10: quite a bit. These really sent a delegation. There was 620 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 10: a report this morning that they actually have closer numbers 621 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 10: about seven hundred Palestinian prisoners, including one hundred serving life, 622 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 10: sent says in exchange for about forty Israeli hostages. So 623 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 10: I think they're making progress, slow progress. I think this 624 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 10: really is more about the politics Netanya, who's really upset, 625 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 10: because when Natanya who wanted was a direct link between 626 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 10: the hostages and a ceasefire, no ceasefire without the hostages, 627 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 10: which the US tried to do in the resolution last 628 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 10: Friday vetoed by Russia and China. This says a ceasefire 629 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 10: and release of the hostages. The US is saying it's 630 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 10: still connected. Israel is saying it's insufficient. The Arab world 631 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 10: thinks that they're happy that something has just passed finally. 632 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 7: Well, Jonathan, it seems that increasingly there is somewhat of 633 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 7: a disconnect between what the US is saying and what 634 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 7: Israel is saying. Be it in regard to a potential 635 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 7: ceasefire dealer, the attempts to reach one, or just what 636 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 7: will happen in Rafa. We heard from Vice President Kamala 637 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 7: Harris speaking over the weekend, saying that she was ruling 638 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 7: out nothing in terms of consequences if Israel were to 639 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 7: pursue a military salt into Ruffa. What realistically, though, could 640 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 7: those consequences looked like, and how likely is it in 641 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 7: your mind that the US would actually move to. 642 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 10: Enforce any I think it really depends on what an 643 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:17,240 Speaker 10: Operation Rafa looks like. And that's frankly, what Ron Dermer 644 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 10: and Hanegbi's visit to the US was supposed to discuss. 645 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 10: If the US has said now clearly that they're going 646 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 10: to be consequences, I think there will be. But that's 647 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 10: only if Israel goes into Rafa with multiple brigades and 648 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 10: really storms through it in the same way it worked 649 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 10: through Conunis and Gaza City. If what Israel really does 650 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 10: is say, Okay, we recognized there's a challenge. We really 651 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 10: do need to move as many of these people out 652 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 10: of Offa as possible. At the same time, we'll make 653 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,439 Speaker 10: this operation less of a full scale operation and much 654 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 10: more counter terrorism, which is what the US is butching, 655 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 10: then I think the US actually would probably accept that. 656 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 10: And my guess is, especially if there is a hotge deal, 657 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 10: that's going to be much easier to complete because any 658 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 10: hostage deal is going to have within it a temporary 659 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 10: pause in fighting, and Israeli operations can't just resume as 660 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 10: they were. You have already moved the brigades out, they'll 661 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 10: have to come back in. So I think that there 662 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,919 Speaker 10: is still some opportunity to work together between the US 663 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 10: and Israel, but clearly tensions arising. 664 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 3: I thought you might point to conditions as part of 665 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 3: your answer on that, Jonathan, and I wonder what your 666 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 3: thought is. Having heard outrage over the weekend from some 667 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 3: progressive Democrats twenty two of which in the House voted 668 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 3: against the government funding bill because it included almost four 669 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 3: billion dollars for Israel. Alexandria Costio Cortes on Sunday morning, 670 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 3: talking on television and on the House floor on Friday, 671 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 3: she referred to this as an unfolding genocide on the 672 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 3: floor of the House and called on the administration to 673 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 3: stop sending weapons to Israel. Well conditions, or at least 674 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 3: additional conditions have to be attached to any further aid. 675 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 10: I don't know that they'll have to be attached. I mean, 676 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 10: there was already, you know, an executive order issued by 677 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 10: the Biden administration making clear the humanitarian conditions related to 678 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 10: all countries, including Israel, for US weapons. I think the 679 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 10: question is going to really be one of whether you 680 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,479 Speaker 10: have a temporary cease fire and how Israel approaches this. Look, 681 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 10: if they have a full scale operation, then yes, I 682 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 10: would expect many Democrats, and that includes folks like Chris 683 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 10: Murphy and Senator Van Holland, who have been pretty aggressive 684 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 10: in this in the Senate, pushing back and saying, look, 685 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 10: we have to condition to aid. But if it's a 686 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 10: smaller operation, if it's more precise, if it's what the 687 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 10: US has been trying to push Israel toward for a 688 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 10: number of months now, Frankly, then I don't think you'll 689 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 10: get those same conditions. The reality is a lot of 690 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 10: the weapons that we're talking about are things that are 691 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 10: defensive in nature. I don't see the US cutting iron 692 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 10: dome missile resupply, so that's defensive to protect Israel. 693 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,760 Speaker 4: I'm glad we could get you back on Jonathan Panakoff. 694 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 3: It's good to see Jonathan at the Atlantic Council and 695 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 3: more specifically the Atlantic Council Scowcroft Middle East Security Initiative. 696 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 4: Good to have you back on Bloomberg. 697 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make 698 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 3: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify. 699 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 4: Or wherever you get your podcasts. 700 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,720 Speaker 3: And you can find us live every weekday from Washington, 701 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 3: DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.