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Speaker 2: to hoops tonight. You're at the volume. Happy Monday, everybody.

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Speaker 2: If all of you guys had an incredible weekend, well

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Speaker 2: we last week finished our top twenty five players in

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Speaker 2: the NBA rankings list, like we do every single year,

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Speaker 2: all new criteria, still the same amount of upset people,

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Speaker 2: and I thought it'd be fun to try to pash

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Speaker 2: it all out with Logan and Carson, the guys from Nerd,

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Speaker 2: SESSH guys the area of the list where I faced

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Speaker 2: the most debate. There's obviously a good amount of debate

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Speaker 2: around the tail end of the list, Like I didn't

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Speaker 2: even have Paul Georgie in my top twenty five this year.

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Speaker 2: There's just so many good players, Like I actually had

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Speaker 2: a preliminary list that was like forty six forty seven

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Speaker 2: players long that I all thought had like at least

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Speaker 2: reasonable cases to be considered top twenty five players in

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Speaker 2: the league, but not too much debate. There a little

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Speaker 2: bit of stuff like, oh, where do you put Jaw

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Speaker 2: that's kind of weird. Where do you put Victor wembin

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Speaker 2: Yama because he's got all this potential, Like how do

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Speaker 2: you factor all this kind of stuff in? But to me,

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Speaker 2: that stuff pales in comparison in terms of interest to

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Speaker 2: the top part of the list. And so for me,

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Speaker 2: the eleven guys that I picked for my Superstar Tier

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Speaker 2: my main thought process here is basically, these are guys

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Speaker 2: that if they're the best player on your team, you

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Speaker 2: have a solid chance to build a championship team around them. So,

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Speaker 2: for instance, the guys immediately behind them for me, guys

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Speaker 2: like Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, even at this point in

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Speaker 2: his career, there's such a big injury factor that there's

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Speaker 2: just such a big kind of like there's a blind

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Speaker 2: spot in terms of whether or not you're actually going

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Speaker 2: to get that type of production out of them. So

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Speaker 2: this is to me where the cutoff is at eleven guys,

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Speaker 2: And the eleven guys in the particular order I put

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Speaker 2: him in were Jokic, Luca, Jannis Sga, Anthony Edwards, Anthony Davis,

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Speaker 2: Jason Tatum, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, and Joel Embiid.

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Speaker 2: So what I want to start before we actually kind

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Speaker 2: of work through this list, is there anybody that you

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Speaker 2: guys had that you think deserves to be included in

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Speaker 2: this tier that I left out with you, Carson.

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Speaker 3: No, I think that you have the right group here.

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Speaker 3: But the one dude who I do want to mention,

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Speaker 3: and you already explained why he can't be here. It's

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Speaker 3: because he is never healthy. Unfortunately, when it matters most

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Speaker 3: never available for the playoffs is Kawhi. I still think

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Speaker 3: he's a top seven player when he is healthy. When

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Speaker 3: he is on the court, just completely dominant, brutally efficient

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Speaker 3: score gets where he wants physically in the playoffs, ridiculous

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Speaker 3: pull up shooter. Still a really high impact defender. But

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Speaker 3: when you're talking about four straight seasons that he hasn't finished,

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Speaker 3: like even at the point where you can put him

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Speaker 3: on the court, and he's not one hundred percent, like

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Speaker 3: he can't be out there at all, I just don't

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Speaker 3: think when you're talking about intrusting a full year of

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Speaker 3: your franchise that you can have him as a top

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Speaker 3: ten guy.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Yeah, I tend to agree, and if we had

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Speaker 1: healthy Kawhi, I think he'd crack my top ten. I

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Speaker 1: want you guys to let me know if I'm off

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Speaker 1: my rocker a little bit. I know I'm an excitable

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Speaker 1: young fellow, but I really wonder if Victor win Boniamoa

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Speaker 1: should already make this list. The reason I say this

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Speaker 1: now before you you know, before I'm struck down here

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Speaker 1: by my fellow basketball geniuses, he's in one of the

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Speaker 1: worst basketball situations in the NBA, Like, his roster is

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Speaker 1: just not up to par, and I do think that

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Speaker 1: Wemby is a step down from like being the number

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Speaker 1: one de facto option in comparison to all the other

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Speaker 1: guys that we've mentioned. He's not perfect, He's in no

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Speaker 1: means a finished product right now. But in this hypothetical

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Speaker 1: scenario that we're doing, you know, it's a league wide redraft.

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Speaker 1: The league is restarting, and so the way I see it,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of guys I think that have different

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Speaker 1: and better arguments considering the fact that they're going to

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Speaker 1: have different rosters around them, and I think Wemby would

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Speaker 1: be the beneficiary, a really big beneficiary of having just

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Speaker 1: a more competitive roster where the league is more balanced

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Speaker 1: in the way that we're doing this thought exercise, So

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Speaker 1: just with his defensive tools, how great of a defensive

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Speaker 1: playmaker he already is, how much better he could potentially

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Speaker 1: get next season? Do you guys think it's crazy that

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Speaker 1: I'm considering him for this list that I think he

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Speaker 1: has a legit case to be in the top ten here.

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Speaker 2: He certainly has a case I mean, the hard part

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Speaker 2: is is like it's mostly theoretical at this point in

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Speaker 2: terms of actually seeing him play. Like there's something so

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Speaker 2: unique about the NBA playoffs in terms of like going

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Speaker 2: from matchup to matchup, like, like, to me, Anthony Edwards

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Speaker 2: is such a great example of this, where Anthony Edwards

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Speaker 2: like put up a monster statistical postseason, and even over

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Speaker 2: the final half of the postseason, like the second half

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Speaker 2: of the Denver series through the tail end of the

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Speaker 2: Dallas series, like he still was putting up crazy statistical

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Speaker 2: performance relative to most of his peers around the league,

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Speaker 2: and most people think he sucked like that. That's how

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Speaker 2: crazy the NBA playoffs are. It's so physical, it's so intense,

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Speaker 2: the game planning is so good that like it's just

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Speaker 2: really really hard to play well in that setting. And

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Speaker 2: when I think about Victor, I just think it's if

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Speaker 2: someone told me, like we're gonna all just hands down

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Speaker 2: agree he's top five in the league at the end

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Speaker 2: of the season. Of course I believe you, but it's

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Speaker 2: just so risky and so theoretical. He was just a

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Speaker 2: really tough player for me to rank in general, And

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Speaker 2: for instance, the reason why I put Bam over him,

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Speaker 2: is I still think like for a playoff series or

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Speaker 2: a playoff run this year, BAM's just experience and his

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Speaker 2: ability to play in physicality and like what he can

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Speaker 2: do playing with others is a five out big I

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Speaker 2: just kind of view him as to say, for bet,

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Speaker 2: the Kuhi bit is super interesting because like he's twenty

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Speaker 2: eight eight and five on sixty three percent tru shooting

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Speaker 2: as a playoff player with the Clippers. That's an absurd efficient,

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Speaker 2: amazing production. It's just to Carson's point, like, in addition

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Speaker 2: to not being able to finish a playoff series in

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Speaker 2: the last four years, there has even been examples, particularly

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Speaker 2: last year when they lost to Phoenix, I should say

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Speaker 2: the year before this past year when they lost to Phoenix,

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Speaker 2: and then the year that they made it to the

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Speaker 2: conference finals. In both of those cases, they got to

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Speaker 2: April with healthy Kawhi, like did our job got him there?

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Speaker 2: And he looked fucking awesome to start the playoffs, and

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Speaker 2: in both of those cases he inevitably broke down, and

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Speaker 2: so there just wasn't really a case there. The only

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Speaker 2: other guy there was two other guys that I saw

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Speaker 2: get mentioned as potential dudes. To be included in this list.

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Speaker 2: A lot of guys brought up Jalen Brunson and a

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Speaker 2: lot of guys brought up Devin Booker, And again, I

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Speaker 2: think both of those guys are awesome, and I do

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Speaker 2: think they could be the best player on a championship

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Speaker 2: team if they are surrounded by overwhelming talent, like I think,

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Speaker 2: if you plug those dudes on the Boston Celtics, I

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Speaker 2: think they're still championship legitimate, top tier championship contenders. But

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Speaker 2: I just think in terms of the physical imposition on

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Speaker 2: the game and their half court shot creation ability, they're

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Speaker 2: still just on a tier below the guys that are

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Speaker 2: in that top tier. So it sounds like, for the

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Speaker 2: most part, we agree. Let's move on to the actual list.

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Speaker 2: Can we all agree Jokic's one? Does anybody even want

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Speaker 2: to try to argue otherwise? Logan, you got it in you,

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Speaker 2: you got an adversarial take, No.

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Speaker 1: Sir, I'm not gonna be fighting that uphill battle today.

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Speaker 2: The reasoning for me was pretty simple, Like I think that,

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Speaker 2: and remember, for the people that weren't paying attention during

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Speaker 2: the actual list, the criteria was very simple. If we

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Speaker 2: had to start a season this fall, meaning literally a

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Speaker 2: month from now, and I've got a draft player to

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Speaker 2: carry me all the way through to June, and I'm

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Speaker 2: building from scratch around them. Who gives me the best chance?

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Speaker 2: And the Jokic case to me is, first of all,

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Speaker 2: I think he's the only other guy I even considered

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Speaker 2: for the spot is Luca. I think that those two

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Speaker 2: are clearly a level above the third best guy. But

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Speaker 2: in terms of Luca, I think it's harder to craft

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Speaker 2: defensive role for him than it is for joks. Jokic

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Speaker 2: just has a typical high drop coverage big or low

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Speaker 2: drop coverage big. His ability to defensive rebound, He's gotten

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Speaker 2: so active with his hands, He's a good defensive communicator.

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Speaker 2: Did not have a good defensive playoff run by his standards,

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Speaker 2: but Luca's was somehow way worse. So like I find

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Speaker 2: it a little bit easier to build around him. And

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Speaker 2: then the two things for me with Jokic that were

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Speaker 2: differentiators were one, I think I can run more styles

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Speaker 2: of offense with him. I think his ability to just

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Speaker 2: kind of flow from side to side as a five

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Speaker 2: out big I can plug so many different types of

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Speaker 2: other ball handlers around him. The ability to put a

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Speaker 2: forward next to him that can't shoot is a huge

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Speaker 2: Like I was thinking about this the other day, like

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Speaker 2: could you even imagine plugging Aaron Gordon in on the

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Speaker 2: MAVs and how clunky that would be with their four

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Speaker 2: out spacing and having Lively and Gafford rolling to the

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Speaker 2: rim with the guy that you just don't have to

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Speaker 2: guard in the corner, and the issues that that that

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Speaker 2: that that could present, Like they just they like that

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Speaker 2: that is a unique trait that Jokics brings to the table.

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Speaker 2: I just think I think in general that I just

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Speaker 2: have a much more straightforward but at the same time

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Speaker 2: diverse path to success with Jokic as my folkrim.

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Speaker 3: Do you, I completely agree. I think that there's a

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Speaker 3: gap between him and Luca offensively, and I understand that

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Speaker 3: people get excited when Luca has these monstrous box score performances,

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Speaker 3: and there's something about a player doing it from the

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Speaker 3: perimeter with that sort of isolation shot making that I

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Speaker 3: think people just tend to prefer as like a viewer,

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Speaker 3: people tend to think it's more exciting, and so then

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Speaker 3: people always want to put Luca in that best player

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Speaker 3: in the world thrown. I still think there's a gap.

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Speaker 3: I think that with Jokic you are getting consistently a

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Speaker 3: shot quality that we've arguably never seen in the history

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Speaker 3: of the sport. Right he gets himself a sixty five

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Speaker 3: percent shot at will because that is what he shoots

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Speaker 3: on paint touch shots. He's too big, he's too skilled,

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Speaker 3: his footwork is too good, his fakes are too effective

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Speaker 3: for anybody to actually stop him in single coverage out

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Speaker 3: of the post. And then he's also the best passer alive.

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Speaker 3: And I think you hit on a key point with

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Speaker 3: the multifacet impact in with the stylistic versatility, like Luca

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Speaker 3: has stretches where he is relying heavily on the pull

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Speaker 3: up jumper, the step back threes, and he is really

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Speaker 3: inefficient and he's actually taking your offense out of rhythm.

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Speaker 3: And of course that is way way outweighed by the

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Speaker 3: good in totality. But with Jokic, there is such a

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Speaker 3: floor and he's always going to be extremely impactful as

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Speaker 3: a screener, as an offensive rebounder. He's gonna make quicker decisions,

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Speaker 3: have quicker, more efficient touches, and I do think he's

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Speaker 3: a higher impact defensive player as you say Luca was

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Speaker 3: really catastrophically bad in the finals, and I don't think

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Speaker 3: that he is that bad of a defender. I didn't

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Speaker 3: think he was that bad of a defender in the

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Speaker 3: regular season. And there are some people who will say, well,

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Speaker 3: it's harder to build a good defense around a mediocre

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Speaker 3: defensive center, which you would say Jokich is a pretty

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Speaker 3: average defensive center than it is even a bad perimeter

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Speaker 3: defender like Luca. And while I can kind of understand

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Speaker 3: that perspective because center is the most important position, I

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Speaker 3: don't think it's true. If you look at the twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three Nuggets and the level that they defended at

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Speaker 3: and Jokic was legitimately defending at I would say a

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Speaker 3: slightly above average level in that run because of his hands,

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Speaker 3: as I c his elite, elite.

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Speaker 2: Recas and the Aaron Gordon Park. Yeah, the Aaron Gordon

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Speaker 2: part is the interesting part because, like again, he is

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Speaker 2: one of the best defensive forwards in the league, and

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Speaker 2: you can't play him alongside a certain type like that

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Speaker 2: was a role for him that never worked until he

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Speaker 2: went to Denver.

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Speaker 3: And you'll get you such an effective off ball player too,

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Speaker 3: Right when we go back to the offensive side, Like

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Speaker 3: this is a big who curls around screens and can

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Speaker 3: hit the mid range jumpers. He runs inverted pick and roll.

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Speaker 3: It's just such a remarkably versatile skill set. The efficiency,

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Speaker 3: I think that he's clearly number one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the the the they're relying on, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: pitch it right back to you logan here in just

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Speaker 2: a second. The the relying on the step back jump

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Speaker 2: shot piece is super fascinating to me too, because like again,

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Speaker 2: he shot thirty eight percent on step back threes during

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Speaker 2: the regular season, which is a great number. And so

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Speaker 2: in the large sample, there's a points per possession element

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Speaker 2: with Luca that you get that's super advantageous. And that's

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Speaker 2: the thing, Like he's like basically any half court static action,

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Speaker 2: he's gonna get you one point one points, like he's

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Speaker 2: gonna hit like which is awesome. On the massive volume

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Speaker 2: that he's doing. He did something crazy, like I want

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Speaker 2: to say, over two thousand pick and rolls, ISOs and

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Speaker 2: post ups including passes over, which is just an absurd number.

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Speaker 2: Like his volume and shot creation just doesn't even resemble

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Speaker 2: what you see elsewhere in the league. But for the record,

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Speaker 2: there's just that you get to the postseason and those

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Speaker 2: further shots away from the basket, the field goal percentage

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Speaker 2: starts to dip. Like he shot thirty two percent on

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Speaker 2: step back threes in that playoff run. In the NBA Finals, specifically,

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Speaker 2: he shot twenty four percent on step back three on

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Speaker 2: three point shots in general, So like, again, that's becoming

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Speaker 2: an issue in terms of that small sample when we

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Speaker 2: get there, he can't make it, which is eerily similar

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Speaker 2: to the conversations we used to have about James Harden

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Speaker 2: or like he would just have these crazy step back

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Speaker 2: jump shooting seasons and then he would get to the

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Speaker 2: postseason and they wouldn't go in at the same rate,

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Speaker 2: and it would become an issue. And one of the

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Speaker 2: stats I saw that I thought was super fascinating. There's

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Speaker 2: this stat on Synergy. It's called score percentage. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: you've seen it, Carson, but like the one of the

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Speaker 2: things that score percent and quantifies as just the sheer

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Speaker 2: percentage of your possessions that you end up leading to points, right,

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Speaker 2: And specifically, Jokic's scored percentage on a shot creation is

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Speaker 2: above all of his peers around the league because of

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Speaker 2: the fact that like there's there may not be the

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Speaker 2: because he takes somebody hooks and floaters. There may not

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Speaker 2: be the same you know, massive sample size efficiency that

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Speaker 2: you might get from a guy like Luca because he's

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Speaker 2: taking so many threes, but he's just getting these incredibly

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Speaker 2: like consistent baskets. There's the poor shooting nights are few

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Speaker 2: and far between, and so I think it's it's a

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Speaker 2: pretty clear case logan. I have Luca too. I'm assuming

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Speaker 2: that we're all in the same page there. Do you

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Speaker 2: think that there's any case for Yannis at three to

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Speaker 2: be above Lucas I actually.

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Speaker 4: Do have Yiannis at number two on my list.

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Speaker 1: And the last thing that I want to add real

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Speaker 1: quick about the Jokic Luca dynamic that you guys are

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Speaker 1: talking about the other feathering cap I put in Jokic's

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Speaker 1: cap is that you're talking about the volume that lou

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Speaker 1: has during the regular season and how much of a

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Speaker 1: burden he does playing like that. I think that's a

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Speaker 1: reason that Luca was so banged up last year. It's

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Speaker 1: hard sustaining that kind of you know, load on your

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Speaker 1: shoulders every single night, and Yokic's playstyle leans himself into

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Speaker 1: you know, not taking that kind of beat up.

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Speaker 4: Also, just the way he's built. He's strong as an ox.

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Speaker 1: The guy's built like a tank, like his play style,

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Speaker 1: and I think is the way he plays the game

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Speaker 1: just lends himself to being more healthy, more consistently, and

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Speaker 1: just better when it comes into those late game scenarios.

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Speaker 3: Also, I think if I can add one thing real quick, Logan,

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Speaker 3: just because you were mentioning volume. The other thing that

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Speaker 3: we've seen in one of my takes that makes people

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Speaker 3: more irritated sometimes is that Jokic is the best score

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Speaker 3: on the planet, which I do think is a more

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Speaker 3: vulnerable title because his jumper was quite cold at the

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Speaker 3: end of last year in the playoffs. But when the

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Speaker 3: jumper is falling, I think that he is and the

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Speaker 3: reason is that he's completely unstoppable out of the post,

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Speaker 3: and that is simply the most efficient offense anybody can

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Speaker 3: create for themselves. And in the playoffs he rants his

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Speaker 3: volume up. He's a thirty point per game playoff scorer

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Speaker 3: in the last four years, and he does that with

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Speaker 3: better efficiency than anybody else with remotely comparable volumes. So

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Speaker 3: I do think Jason, you mentioned the volume that Luca

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Speaker 3: has offensively and it's still a little bit greater than Jokic's.

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Speaker 3: But Jokic's volume ratchets up as a scorer in the playoffs,

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Speaker 3: and we know raw volume generally isn't the best way

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Speaker 3: to be a ceiling razor offensively. You probably have to

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Speaker 3: decrease your usage a bit to have more off ball value,

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Speaker 3: to play a more conducive, free flowing style of offense.

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Speaker 3: That's the last thing I wanted to say. Mute my

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Speaker 3: mic on all Yoki matters from now on. I'm done

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Speaker 3: for the.

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Speaker 1: Day, one hundred percent. But I do have you, honest

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Speaker 1: at number two on my list, and his injury history

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Speaker 1: at this point, guys, is very concerning. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: these injury prone players that maybe we omit from this list,

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Speaker 1: the Kawhi Leonards of the world. If he's off your list,

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Speaker 1: if Embiat is off your list, if you're concerned about

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Speaker 1: Kevin Durant getting up in an age honest on tetchakunpo oh,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler as well, Jannis is slowly kind of creeping

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Speaker 1: into that territory, right He's played in three playoff games

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Speaker 1: the past two seasons, and I understand that being a

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Speaker 1: component for him being lower on this list for some people.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to the Luca Yannis dynamic, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to gimmick up your defense around Jannis, you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to Like Luka, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: just put him on the corner and hope that Luca

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Speaker 1: pays attention.

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Speaker 4: You know, he's not a traffic cone.

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Speaker 1: Giannis is still really impactful on that side of the ball,

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Speaker 1: and I just value that two way impact a little

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Speaker 1: bit more than Luca's ability as an offensive engine, because

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Speaker 1: I think he's brilliant, right. I think he's the second

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Speaker 1: best offensive engine in basketball, and he's the second best

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Speaker 1: play maker in basketball compared to Jokic, and he's arguably

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Speaker 1: the best scorer in basketball. You just talk about that.

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Speaker 1: Carson Jokic I think consistently has a higher floor. But

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Speaker 1: because of Luca's volume and that three point shot, he's

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Speaker 1: a little bit more prone to the scoring explosions. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the guy dropped you know what, seventy last year on

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Speaker 1: the Hawks. Like, I just don't think Jokic is ever

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Speaker 1: going to impose himself the way that Luca does in

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Speaker 1: that respect, where he can have those kind of explosions.

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Speaker 4: But on Giannis versus Luca.

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Speaker 1: I know Yiannis is flawed, still is an offensive basketball player,

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Speaker 1: but he's grown as a playmaker. Legitimately, he is still

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Speaker 1: unstoppable in certain matchups. Jason, you're talking about the dynamic

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Speaker 1: of matchups in the playoffs at the start of the episode.

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Speaker 1: You have to have a Yannis stopper on your team,

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Speaker 1: and there are just some teams that don't have that guy.

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Speaker 1: And so I know that Gianni's flawed, is an offensive player,

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Speaker 1: He's never going to be that kind of perimeter initiator.

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Speaker 1: You probably never want to go to him in late

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Speaker 1: game moments, right. He needs that high level guard that

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Speaker 1: can compliment him in crunch time. But I think he's

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Speaker 1: more impactful on the two way side, and I think

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways he's gotten a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: He's gotten a little underrated after these two seasons. But

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Speaker 1: I understand with his flaws and with his injury history,

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Speaker 1: if you're cooling a little bit on Giannis at this

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Speaker 1: point in his career.

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Speaker 2: It's been interesting how these three guys have kind of

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Speaker 2: like jockeyed around for me, but then still kind of

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Speaker 2: landed in the same place. And what I mean by

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Speaker 2: that it's been weird seasons, like, as Carson pointed out,

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Speaker 2: like Jokic. Jokic to me last year was head and

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Speaker 2: shoulders above the rest of the league. Like I didn't

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Speaker 2: think it was particularly close. I do think it's close now.

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Speaker 2: I think that Jokic's decline as a jump shooter was

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Speaker 2: a real problem in last year's postseason. I mean, especially

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Speaker 2: in that Minnesota series, like he kept popping open to

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Speaker 2: the top of the key and he just literally couldn't

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Speaker 2: make a shot. Think about how big of a deal

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Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty three playoff run it was that

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Speaker 2: he could just drive closeouts, Like how often he'd be

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Speaker 2: like beating Bam or beating Ad with just a pump

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Speaker 2: fake from the top of the key because the dude

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Speaker 2: was shooting forty five percent from three. And yet at

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Speaker 2: the same time, after all of that, after he declined

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Speaker 2: as a jump shooter, after he had a worse defensive

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Speaker 2: postseason than he's had in a few years, still had

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Speaker 2: him at number one. And then it's like Luca kind

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Speaker 2: of like in a weird way, And I feel bad

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Speaker 2: saying this because, like I mean, he made it to

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Speaker 2: the finals. He had easily the biggest moment of the

430
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,919
Speaker 2: postseason with that game winner over Rudy Gobert. In general

431
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 2: at a bunch of big moments over the court. He

432
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 2: had a bunch of big moments over the course of

433
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 2: that postseason run. But it's like all I can see

434
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 2: is like there's a couple things that stuck in my head,

435
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 2: Like he consistently kind of struggled at the end of games.

436
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 2: That go Bear shot was a big shot, but he

437
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: shot poorly in clutch time. In that entire postseason run.

438
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: He tailed off at the end of games. He looked

439
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: like he was getting tired. He looked like he was

440
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 2: struggling to get separation. The Celtics series, We've talked a

441
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 2: lot about the defensive end of the ball, but like

442
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 2: his jump shot fell apart at the tail end of

443
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 2: that series when they went to Dallas, he couldn't make

444
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 2: a jump shot, and it like from three point land

445
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: in particular, it was like really really struggling. And then Jannis,

446
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: it's like that I actually thought he deserved more consideration

447
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 2: for MVP last year, and then he goes and misses

448
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 2: the postseason again, and he's played two and a half

449
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 2: postseason games in the last twenty seven months, and so

450
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 2: it's weird because all three of them kind of have

451
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: these different you know, kind of like down marks for

452
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 2: different reasons, but I kind of have them all landing

453
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 2: in that same kind of hierarchy that I had. The

454
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 2: conversation is simple. Luca's benefit to me, he's very similar

455
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 2: to Yokic in the sense that he's very physically imposing,

456
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 2: very difficult to match up with, Like him just ripping

457
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 2: through Jada McDaniel's like tissue paper is actually crazy. It

458
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 2: reminds me of the previous year when Jokic ripped through

459
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 2: ad and then like rip through those guys like like,

460
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense what Luca does to extremely gifted

461
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 2: perimeter defenders because of his size advantages. It's just simply

462
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 2: because he's not quite as as amenable to playing with

463
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: others and because he's just not quite as consistent on

464
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: a possession by possession basis with the variability, I have

465
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 2: to put him a level behind. But that said, like,

466
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,719
Speaker 2: to me, the gap between what I can do with

467
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: Luca on offense and then cover for him on defense

468
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 2: versus if I was building from scratch with Giannis, especially

469
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: within the context of this type of format, it's just

470
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 2: a little bit too wide of a gap for me.

471
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: Like if I draft Luca from there, I theoretically could

472
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: just take extremely high level role players the rest of

473
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,640
Speaker 2: the way and have a good chance to win. If

474
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: I take Yannis, I gotta find a high level ball handler,

475
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 2: like a really high level ball handler. And theoretically, in

476
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: a snake draft, like if I drafted third and I

477
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: took Giannis, I might not get the player until player

478
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: of what fifty six fifty seven, right, So, like I have,

479
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 2: there are some limitations in terms of building around Yannis

480
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 2: from the standpoint of like he's this absolute wrecking ball

481
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 2: of production. I do think he's one of the top

482
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 2: tier defensive players in the league in a high leverage

483
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 2: situation like a postseason series. His ability to be in

484
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: two places at once on defense is like cheating. It's

485
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 2: like crazy. He is such a valuable weapon, but there's

486
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: just like we're he's gonna turn thirty this year and

487
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: he still doesn't have a left shoulder hook, Like, he

488
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: doesn't have a shot that he can go to over

489
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: a defender that goes in more than forty forty two

490
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 2: percent of the time, and and that's an issue, Carson,

491
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: did you have Luca over yon Us.

492
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 3: I'm going to be in a category of my own here.

493
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 3: I do have Luca number two on this list with

494
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 3: your criteria, Jason, But if we were doing the ranking

495
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 3: of these players in a vacuum, then I would have

496
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 3: Yiannis number two. I do think that Jannie is slightly

497
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 3: starts from game if health were guaranteed. That's honestly the

498
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 3: thing that makes me give Luca the edge here. And

499
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: it's not that Jannis is consistently hurt, even it's just

500
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 3: enough of a concern. Luca is very available, and even

501
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 3: though he was dealing with some nagging injuries in this

502
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 3: playoff run, he was still out there. He was able

503
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 3: to play, whereas Jannis we're talking about again two and

504
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,959
Speaker 3: a half playoff game in the last two seasons. I

505
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: do think that they're very close. The reason that I

506
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 3: give Jannis the edge is I think Luca is just

507
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 3: flawed enough as an offensive engine, even though he is great.

508
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: I think he's one of the top fifteen, maybe about

509
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 3: the tenth best offensive players that we've ever seen, But

510
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 3: compared to Jokic, there is a gap in terms of

511
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: how conducive the play style is to scaling with other

512
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 3: really good players. Again, when it comes to ceiling raising

513
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 3: off ball, Luca has improved a bit, but there's still

514
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: lots of room for improvement there, and there is a

515
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 3: volatility that doesn't exist with a Jokic. And I'm only

516
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 3: saying that. I know that I said I wouldn't mention

517
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 3: Yokic again, so I cheated. But the point is the

518
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 3: difference between the two of them, because they are the

519
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 3: two best offensive engines in basketball. But why I do

520
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 3: view Jokic in a bit of his own tier, and

521
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: I think that Jannis in a vacuum is actually slightly

522
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 3: better than Luca. Luca had bad series in these playoffs.

523
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 3: He was pretty bad against the Clippers. He was bad

524
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 3: in the finals, and especially with this older version of Luca,

525
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 3: who in a lot of ways I think is the

526
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 3: best that he's been because he has grown as a

527
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 3: pull up shooter, but also who simply doesn't get to

528
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 3: the rim at nearly the same rate that he did

529
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: when he was younger, Like he is just more prone

530
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 3: to all Right, I'm shooting twenty percent from three in

531
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 3: this series, and I'm gonna take ten pull up step

532
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: back threes in a game, and like that can be

533
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: a tough watch. Again, that is not good for team offense,

534
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: and he doesn't have the same pats out of it.

535
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 3: Of all, Right, well, I'm just gonna be super effective

536
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: as a screener. I'm gonna get a quick touch at

537
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 3: the elbow and spot a cutter, all these things that

538
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 3: like a Jokic could do. Again, I cheated there, But

539
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 3: I also think that Giannis is a little underrated right now.

540
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 3: And Jason, what you say about having to pair him

541
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: with a high level ballhandler if you want to win

542
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 3: the title, Well, I think yes, that's absolutely ideal because

543
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: of his limitations as a half court shot creator in

544
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 3: crunch time, which is something that I've been critical of

545
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 3: for his entire career. It's the reason that, honestly, I

546
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 3: was skeptical when people in wanted to proclaim Giannis as

547
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 3: the best player in the league. Yes, that's ideal, but

548
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 3: also like look at twenty twenty one. He didn't have

549
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 3: that Middleton played well on that run. Drew Holliday was

550
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 3: wildly inconsistent. Middleton, although he did play well, was still inconsistent.

551
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 3: Yiannis was just such an overwhelming force, and he was

552
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 3: so dominant defensively as well, where I do think he's

553
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 3: taken a bit of a step back now with a

554
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 3: few more years of tread on his tires, that he

555
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 3: was able to will you there. And when you talk

556
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 3: about the great regular season forces that we've seen as well,

557
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 3: like when it does come down to just carrying the

558
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: group around you to fifty five sixty wins, like nobody

559
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: has been better at that than Jannis over the last

560
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 3: seven years. I mean, that's what he's done for the

561
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 3: Bucks year in year out. So I think that we

562
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 3: tend to hyper fixate on his one flaw, which is

563
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 3: that he is not a skilled shot maker, that he

564
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 3: is not a skilled half court creator, and I want

565
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 3: to be clear that is a meaningful flaw. I don't

566
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 3: want to dismiss that. At the same time, we've seen

567
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 3: him dominate in spite of that in twenty twenty one

568
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 3: in the playoffs, in twenty twenty two in the playoffs

569
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 3: without Middleton on the floor, when he was incredible, and

570
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: the last time he was there was ugly because even

571
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 3: though he dropped thirty eight and twenty on the heat

572
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 3: in that final game, which I think we can sort

573
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 3: of gloss over, he was playing a dominant basketball game.

574
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 3: Then he melted down in the clutch. He couldn't make

575
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: free throws, he couldn't overpower Bam physically, and it was

576
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: a really, really ugly way to go out. I do

577
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 3: think Bam is like the worst matchup in the league

578
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: for him because he moves so well, because he's so strong,

579
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 3: Like you can use the term Yannis stopper, but like

580
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: Bam is is the one most problematic matchup for him

581
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 3: in basketball. I still think at the end of the day,

582
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 3: you're getting a guy who walks into thirty twelve six

583
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: and a half on sixty five percent through shooting, has

584
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 3: improved as a playmaker, and is a top twenty defender

585
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: in basketball. It's very, very very few teams have an

586
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 3: answer for and because he does have such overwhelming physical

587
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: imposition and the playmaking is so good now and the

588
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: defense is so good now, I think the baseline there

589
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 3: is higher than Luca. So, although it feels like I'm

590
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 3: making a Yanni's case, I do have Luca number two,

591
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 3: but it's really because of health.

592
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, the hell thing has been really bizarre at the

593
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: last few years because like that was literally his calling

594
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: card is like, oh, he damn near inverted his knee

595
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: in the conference finals, and here he is playing and

596
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: dropping fifty right, Like that was kind of the thing

597
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: I don't want to try to because that's the case

598
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: that a lot of people made in the comments out

599
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: when we were doing the Yannis case, was like, what

600
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: about twenty twenty one, And I don't want to undercut

601
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: that because a couple of things. First of all, like

602
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: Chris and Drew, there's more to that identity of that

603
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: team in the sense that like that was very much

604
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: a defensive minded team that mucked things up, and it

605
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: was kind of like, as long as one of Drew

606
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: or Chris has it going tonight, we have a really

607
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: good chance of winning this particular game. But then there's

608
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: also this part and I hate doing this because I

609
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: hate trying to undercut champions, and they are bonavide NBA champions.

610
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: That title. There's no asterisk in my book there. Giannis

611
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: is a legitimate finals MVP. All that stuff that said,

612
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: I thought that was the weakest champion in the last

613
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: five six years. I think that that twenty twenty one

614
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: Bucks team was that, Like it's so funny how there's

615
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: a focus on the bubble as being the weird season.

616
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: But the truth is is like everybody played normal basketball

617
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: till March, and then when they went to the bubble,

618
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: there were zero positive tests, So like everyone that was

619
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: there played like it was like a static basketball environment.

620
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: The twenty twenty one season was weird. It was short.

621
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: We had like remember all those like would be like, oh,

622
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: half the bulls are sick, they're all out this week,

623
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: and it's like we've got this weird roster of a

624
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: bunch of journeymen playing today. Like that was a weird season,

625
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: and like all the teams that made it to the

626
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: conference finals in the previous year all got hurt if

627
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: you remember correctly, Like it was just kind of a

628
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: weird year. So like I'm not trying to undercut that

629
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: or I'm just saying like they haven't been able to

630
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: replicate that since. And like last year it was like, oh,

631
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: let's bring in a high level ball handler in terms

632
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: of Dame instead of Drew, and then they promptly ended

633
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: up having a whole bunch of other issues that were

634
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: opened up by virtue of the fact that Drew was gone.

635
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: And so the point is is, like I do think

636
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: it's just a little bit tougher to build around Yiannis.

637
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 2: You guys, I'll make good cases. I know we could

638
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: talk about this forever, but I'm gonna move on just

639
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 2: for the sake of keeping the show moving right now.

640
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: I have Carson at Jokis, Luka Yannis, and I have

641
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: Logan at Jokis, Jiannis Luca. Do you both have SGA

642
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: at four? Let's start with you, love.

643
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do have SGA at four, and I would

644
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: hear an argument if people wanted to above Luca.

645
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 4: I think that he does have more two way value.

646
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: I think SGA is a damn good defender, but I

647
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: just trust Luca Moore as an offensive engine.

648
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 4: I think SGA brings less playmaking value.

649
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: But when we're talking about like scaling to the playoff stage,

650
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: that was a big criticism of SGA's this regular season

651
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: shade detractors, and I don't know why there's that befuddles me.

652
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: Why there are groups of people who just hate on

653
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: certain basketball players while they actively hope to see their downfall.

654
00:31:58,800 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 4: That's strange to me.

655
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: It's the foul grifting. I think. I think the foul

656
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: grifting is like objectively unlikable, and when they see guys

657
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 2: do the light throwing their body and throwing their arms up.

658
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: I think people just automatically get I also think.

659
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: She's just really good at using his body though, like

660
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: the way he initiates contact and uses that elbow, the

661
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,239
Speaker 1: change in pace. I think Sga has one of the

662
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: most like elegant, beautiful games in basketball. He's one of

663
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: my favorite players to watch, just he's unstoppable. He has

664
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 1: so many counters to everything that the defense throws at him.

665
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: His change of pace is elape the way he explodes

666
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: to the bucket. He's one of the best finishers around

667
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: the rim. Like when we're just talking about inside the

668
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: arc scorers manufacturing shots everywhere on the floor from inside

669
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: the arc, SGA's up there for you might be the best.

670
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: Jokic is definitely up there. Luca's in that conversation. But SDA,

671
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: if you have them above, you know, above those guys,

672
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: he's not lagging far behind and so top tier offensive engine,

673
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: great two way value. But I don't think he's as

674
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: prone to having these scoring explosions. Is like Luca, Like

675
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: I think in I worry about him going across the

676
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: finish line, and you know, when you need those big

677
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: time like scoring explosions. SGA's will give you thirty every night.

678
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: He's damn he's damn good for it, thirty six and six.

679
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: But that's one of his flaws. And then, uh, I

680
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: think in comparison to to Jannis, he just couldn't have

681
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: the pronounced defensive impact. But Sga is one of the

682
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: most consistent guys in basketball. And when you're talking about

683
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: that malleability, Jason right in terms of roster construction. In

684
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: this thought exercise, I think Sga is one of the

685
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: most malleable guys. Like Giannis gives you such a high floor,

686
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: such a high baseline, a great guard gives you that

687
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: great ceiling. To me, SGA is one of those great

688
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: guards that gives you that great ceiling. And I think

689
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: you could put a lot of guys around him that

690
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: compliment him. He's gonna take the scoring load every night,

691
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: he's gonna give you thirty, he's gonna play make it

692
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: a pretty high level, and he's gonna play really great defense.

693
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: So I don't think I could have anybody else in

694
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: this number four spot. I don't think I hear an

695
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: argument for anybody else to crack this top four. I

696
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: think they're solidified for me.

697
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 3: With this criteria. I agree. If we were just talking again,

698
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 3: presuming health pet to peak, then I would probably have

699
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 3: game in the fourth one game.

700
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 4: I'm taking one game. I'm taking Lebron man.

701
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 3: No, okay, well listen, I respect Lebron to.

702
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: Take Lebron Overriannis for one game. Still, it's close.

703
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 3: I do think that, Yeah, the one game makes it interesting.

704
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: But if you were talking even about like just a

705
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: playoff run, I mean, there's just a level of physical

706
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 3: dominance that Jannis can sustain over that run. With SGA,

707
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 3: there's just a scoring floor that is the highest in basketball.

708
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 3: I mean, it's ridiculous. This is a guard who scored

709
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: thirty points per game last year and made almost fifty

710
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 3: four percent of his shots from the field. So I

711
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 3: think he's a very clear for Really. The only limitation

712
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 3: is that he's not an elite playmaker at this stage.

713
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 3: I think he's an above average play but you see

714
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 3: like there are stretches in the series where he's just

715
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 3: not processing things quickly enough. I actually thought that in

716
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 3: the Dallas series he was underrated as a playmaker, and

717
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: I thought that although that offense was a bit stagnant overall,

718
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 3: he was pretty consistently getting the ball to the second side.

719
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: He was making skip passes, and it was just shooting

720
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 3: and a lack of ball moving around him that really

721
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 3: let him down. And in that environment with these congested paints,

722
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 3: right when you are basically constantly seeing a big and

723
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 3: helping position because they're just willing to roam off of

724
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 3: whatever shooter was in the weakside corner, like Shay is

725
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 3: still scoring with great efficiency in that environment, just because

726
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 3: as a one on one shot creator, he's the most

727
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 3: consistent dude that we have in the league isolation pick

728
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 3: and roll. He's the leading restricted area scorer among all guards,

729
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 3: and he is the best mid range shot maker at

730
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: the guard spot that we have in basketball. Threatens the drive,

731
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 3: stops on a dime, as Logan mentions, has ridiculous body

732
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 3: control numerous counters. He's just incredible. I also think there

733
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: was so much weird SGA discourse to come out of

734
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: the Dallas series. On the defensive side of the ball.

735
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 3: There were also people who thought that like it was

736
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 3: his fault that Derek Jones Junior and PJ. Washington were

737
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 3: knocking down wide open corner threes as if when you

738
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 3: blitz a pick and roll ball handler, you don't need

739
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 3: the lowman to slide over and tag the roller, like

740
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: Esgay's doing his job, and he did it reasonably well.

741
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 3: Like those were the shots the thunder wanted to concede,

742
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 3: and dudes who are generally not good at those shots

743
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 3: were good at those shots. So I do think Sga

744
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 3: is an above average defender. That he's not as good

745
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: as the stocks totals would suggest, but I think he's

746
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 3: an above average defender who does have some versatility on

747
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 3: that side. Not the most versatile offensive player in terms

748
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: of like off ball value playing with another real on

749
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 3: ball star, but I don't care. He's so damn good

750
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 3: at what he does that I think he's stamped in

751
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 3: this spot. There's just such consistent offensive brilliance.

752
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm actually like really interested to see how he

753
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 2: plays over the next few years, as Jalen Williams gets

754
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: better and as Chet Holmgren gets better, Because you're right,

755
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 2: like he's a bad catch and shoot player at this point.

756
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 2: He's he's kind of a little bit of a catch

757
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 2: and hold kind of guy, and so I'll be really

758
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: curious to see how he develops in that regard, Like,

759
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: I think he's closer to Luca than he is to

760
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: Jokic in terms of offensive engines that have like real

761
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 2: ball in player movement kind of baked into their game,

762
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: which I think leads to like, I think that I

763
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: think that helio centric style and and ball handlers that

764
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: like can't play off the ball, I think they do

765
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,479
Speaker 2: lead to a little bit of a diminishing return there.

766
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: Like just simple example with Luca, Like one of the

767
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: reasons why you can get away with sticking Porzingis or

768
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 2: Horford on PJ. Washington or Derek Jones Junior and just

769
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 2: having them camp in the paint and ignore those dudes

770
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 2: on above the break jump shots. One of the reasons

771
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: they can get away with that is because PJ. Washington

772
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: and Derek Jones Junior aren't involved in action. They aren't

773
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 2: like they aren't like coming out of a dribble handoff

774
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: in the corner, like because that's the thing that's how

775
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 2: you'd attack. It's like, Okay, PJ. Washington is not hitting

776
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: above the break threes, so that means that our center

777
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: can park his ass into paint and help everywhere. Right, Well,

778
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 2: what if you actually made Porzingis or Orford run through

779
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 2: a few dribble handoffs, Like that's where you could start

780
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 2: to get some real Not to mention PJ. Washington and

781
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 2: Derek Jones, Derek Jones Jr. Are athletes, and there are

782
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: athletes that can get downhill and try to make plays.

783
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: But like that's the thing, is, like, that's just not

784
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 2: the way Dallas plays. It's not the way Dallas plays

785
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 2: like And so what's so interesting is one simple defensive

786
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: adjustment literally crippled Dallas's offense because Luca only can play

787
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 2: one way and and and that to me at this

788
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 2: point in his career, and that to me is and

789
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 2: for the record, it's not just Luca's fault. Part of

790
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 2: it is the way Dallas has empowered him. And there

791
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: hasn't been enough focus organizationally on playing a different style.

792
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 2: And you could tell, I mean even that Mark Cuban

793
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: interview the other day, and it's like, oh, Klay Thompson,

794
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: like he's not gonna have to like run off the

795
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,479
Speaker 2: screens like it did in Golden State. We're gonna spoon

796
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: feed him wide open threes in the corner, which one

797
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: isn't how basketball works, and two that doesn't actually sound

798
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: like something that'll help you the way that you think

799
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: it will. Like it's an organizational philosophy that is very

800
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 2: much set around We're gonna have Luca create everything and

801
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 2: spoon feed everybody everything, and there's a diminishing return there.

802
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: I'll be curious to see. I'll be curious to see

803
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: how Shae develops in that regard, because he's gonna have

804
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 2: no choice because this Thunder roster is so good and

805
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 2: Jalen Williams is that level of player where he's gonna

806
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 2: have games where it's like he's the one who has

807
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 2: it going. That said, I was, I agree with you, Carson.

808
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 2: I thought it was bizarre how as Jay was covered

809
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 2: after that playoff run. I thought for his first playoff

810
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: run as the guy with like real expectations, I thought

811
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: he did pretty damn good. He was this close, this

812
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 2: close to the conference finals, this close. He actually out

813
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: executed Luca down the stretch of that game. He just

814
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: made one defensive mistake. He found PJ. Washington in the corner.

815
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 2: Shaye was insane at the end of that game. Remember

816
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: that step back three he hit right at the top

817
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: of the key that kind of like took the edge

818
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: off He had that driving dish to check Homegrin for

819
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: the dunk. He had a pull up shooting stretch earlier

820
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: in that game where he got crazy hot and hit

821
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: a bunch of fifteen footers in a row. He was

822
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: this close to sending that game two Game seven in

823
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City, where Oklahoma Oklahoma City would have been favored.

824
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 2: I actually thought he played Luca more or less evenly

825
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: in that series. The one thing that is a little

826
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 2: bit tricky there is I thought Luca had a much

827
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 2: tougher defensive matchup, Like Lou dort is the best guy

828
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 2: to guard Luca in the league because he's a fire

829
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 2: hydrant that Luca can't bully, and Lucas spent half the

830
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: series complaining at the refs and limping around because Lou

831
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 2: was kind of playing super physical on him and putting

832
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: that level of like hurt and pain on him. But

833
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 2: like Shay did play extremely well and I am a

834
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 2: big believer in him in the long run. And like

835
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: the other thing, like oh he missed some reeds. Every

836
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 2: damn player in the league missus reeds except for Jokis

837
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 2: Luca Lebron. Like if it's not the top tier passers,

838
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: it's like those guys are up here and then there's

839
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: a chasm and then everyone else. Like it's such a

840
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 2: natural like transcendent of ability that you can't like teach

841
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 2: or train. It's like you either have it or you don't.

842
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: That like, yeah, you get better at making reads, and

843
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: Shay will miss fewer reads as he gets older. But

844
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: like like with exception of those top tier playmakers, he's

845
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 2: never gonna get to that level. Like, Shay's not going

846
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 2: to be an eleven assist the game, guys, it's just

847
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: not in his in his game. So number five is

848
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 2: where I started to get into a bunch of arguments

849
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 2: with people, and the way I see it, everyone below

850
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,959
Speaker 2: this tier, everyone below Shae has like gaping holes that

851
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 2: that are like harder to deal with. And so in

852
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: my opinion, like I had him beat at eleven and

853
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 2: Ant at five, you could swap those and defend it.

854
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: Like if you said, guys, I have an at eleven,

855
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: I'd be like, that makes sense to me. I have

856
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 2: him beat at five. That makes sense to me, even

857
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 2: though I had the opposite. My case for Ant was

858
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: very simple. Essentially, he's the most available star in the

859
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 2: league right now. You can book him for seventy nine

860
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: seventy eight. You know he's gonna play damn near every

861
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: game the entire season. I believe that his production from

862
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,959
Speaker 2: the postseason was a legitimate leap, So I expect ant

863
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: to average twenty eight six and six on sixty percent

864
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: trough shooting this year. I think that that's something that

865
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 2: I would be surprised if he didn't reach. At this point,

866
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: I think the jump shooting is real. I think all

867
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 2: of that is real. And then as far as this

868
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: postseason production goes, I actually think way too much focus

869
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: was put on Ant struggling, which, by the way, he did,

870
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: but not enough was put on the fact that, like

871
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: that Minnesota roster is really limited offensively, Like the roster

872
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 2: is really limited offensively. They were limited offensively all year

873
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 2: because they've got defensive specialists, guys like Rudy Gobert, guys

874
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: like Nikhil Alexander Walker, guys like Kyle Anderson, guys like

875
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 2: Jaden McDaniels. These are defensive specialists that are playing massive

876
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: minutes for them, and the benefit is they're this big, bully,

877
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 2: physical team. But they of course you can put two

878
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 2: on the ball and pick and roll against Ant and

879
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: those guys aren't going to be able to consistently score

880
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 2: off of it. Now, that's not to say Ant doesn't

881
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 2: have a lot of room for improvement. Specifically the first

882
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 2: two games of the Western Conference Finals at that he

883
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 2: was way too passive in just getting rid of the

884
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 2: basketball and not looking to attack in different ways like

885
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 2: in transition or in just straight one on one to

886
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: avoid that second defender. But the reality is is, like

887
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 2: I think, in terms of regular season production, he's in

888
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: the very top tier of guys that I would expect

889
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: to carry a team for an entire season this year.

890
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 2: And as far as postseason production goes, you really can't

891
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: do much better than the postseason he just had for

892
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 2: a guy at twenty two, and I think he learned

893
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 2: a lot of lessons he's coming off the Team USA experience.

894
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 2: So each of you, I want you to start by

895
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: telling me why you think you're I'm wrong for picking Ant,

896
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 2: and then who you would have at number five instead

897
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: will start with you, Carson.

898
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 3: So I have Ant just a couple spots lower than this,

899
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,919
Speaker 3: and I think he's a really tough player to rank.

900
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 3: I do think that his greatest strength is availability and

901
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: the fact that he is trending upwards at this very

902
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 3: moment in a way that really nobody else on this

903
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 3: list is Like, I do think you can do a

904
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 3: little bit of projection with and expect a little bit

905
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 3: of improvement this year, because that's just the natural course

906
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 3: of a player of his age going into his fifth season.

907
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 3: And I still think that there is meaningful room for

908
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 3: improvement with him. I mean, I thought in the first

909
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 3: series and a half of the playoffs, but before he

910
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 3: fell against Denver, really I thought that he was outstanding.

911
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 3: Part of that was that the pull up shooting was

912
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 3: just ludicrously good early, especially against Phoenix. I mean, he

913
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: was barbecuing them with the mid range game. He was

914
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 3: barbecuing them with the pull up threes. And I think

915
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 3: that we do have to acknowledge that, like he's not

916
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: quite that level of pull up shooter like we see

917
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 3: over his first three postseason appearance is like a ten

918
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: percent leap in effective field goal percentage as a pull

919
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 3: up shooter, which even if you think like okay, because

920
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 3: he is such an imposing downhill threat because of his strength,

921
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 3: right his ability to just bounce off of guys and

922
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 3: get to those mid range looks like that makes him

923
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 3: a better postseason shooter. I would agree with that. I

924
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 3: just don't know that it's that sort of like that's

925
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 3: where I am still hesitant with the sample size. Even

926
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 3: though it's a bigger sample size now, it's still just

927
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 3: twenty seven games, and there can be a lot of

928
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: noise in numbers when you don't have a sample much

929
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 3: larger than that with something very specific like your pull

930
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 3: up shooting. But I am really high on it because

931
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 3: of his strength, because of his athleticism, because he has

932
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 3: been a good pull up shooter when it matters, because

933
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 3: he is generally a plus defender. I think he's a

934
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 3: really really good on ball defender who just has some

935
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 3: lapses in focus off ball, and he can clean up

936
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 3: on that. The reason that I couldn't have him all

937
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 3: the way up at five, though, is what we saw

938
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 3: in terms of his decision making and playmaking in the

939
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 3: Dallas series. I'm with you, it's a tough offensive situation, right.

940
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 3: He doesn't trust Rudy Gobert off the roll, he doesn't

941
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 3: want to hit him, and there's a lack of consistent

942
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 3: shot making around him, and he's playing with two bigs

943
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 3: and he's playing against a really good defense with awesome

944
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 3: rim protection. All of that is true, all of that

945
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 3: is fair. At the same time, he was tentative. He

946
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 3: was not willing to at least pressure the rim at

947
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 3: the necessary level. Like, even if you're facing a great

948
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 3: rim protector, right and it's a congested paint, there are

949
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 3: more good outcomes than bad just for getting to the rim.

950
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 3: If you're Anthony Edwards, right, you make a kick out pass,

951
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 3: you find an open teammate, you draw a foul, and yeah,

952
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 3: maybe you get blocked, maybe you don't finish the lay up.

953
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 3: But also he's like one of the best contested finishers

954
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 3: in the paint in basketball. So I want to see

955
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 3: him lean into his greatest strength more, which is that

956
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 3: freakish downhill pressure that he can apply. And again, I

957
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 3: just think when it comes to diagnosing the defense making

958
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 3: those skip passes, there's room for growth. I thought that

959
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 3: he was okay, but compared to somebody who I actually

960
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 3: have higher than him, like a Jason Tatum, I do

961
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: think that Tatum is a more mature playmaker. I do

962
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 3: think that Tatum brings a more consistently elite impact in

963
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 3: the non scoring areas of the game, rebounding, defense, it's

964
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 3: close because Ant is a more reliable number one score

965
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 3: and if you want to favor that, I mean I

966
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 3: have been on that very side of the issue arguing

967
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,959
Speaker 3: that for Ant. Like you say, Jason, it's so close

968
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 3: with a lot of these guys. But I think Tatum's

969
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 3: just reached the point where, like he's so great at everything,

970
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,959
Speaker 3: but the consistent pull up shooting where he was really

971
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 3: bad in these playoffs, that when that shot bounces back,

972
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 3: which is going to to some extent no matter what

973
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: you think, like, that's just a more complete, refined superstar

974
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 3: impacting winning in every way than the very young aunt

975
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 3: who we have at this point.

976
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 4: I really like this take, though, Jason.

977
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: I mean, well hold it, hold up really quick, Logan.

978
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: So Carson, you have Datum at five, Okay, go ahead, Logan, Yeah, I.

979
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: Have Ant down at number seven. I have two guys

980
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 1: ahead of him. I heare you, though, because I don't

981
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: think that Minnesota does him many offensive favors because of

982
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: his situation. So when we're talking about doing a redraft

983
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: like this, I actually think that Anthony Edwards is a

984
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 1: guy who would be better if you put different personnel

985
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: around him, more shooting. Right, We're talking about the upper

986
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: echelon offensive engines, Ant doesn't really have a chance to

987
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 1: do that because of the personnel around him.

988
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 4: I do agree with you, Carson.

989
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: I thought Ant had his moments play making and decision

990
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: making in this last run, but it wasn't elite. I

991
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 1: also think again, that has to do with how much

992
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: he trusts this personnel to do their thing. So I

993
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: think in a different situation where you give him a

994
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: role man that he trusts, he could spoon fit feed

995
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: him easy looks right. I think in a different situation

996
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 1: he would look a lot better. But I think there

997
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 1: is volatility with the pull up shooting. I think Ant

998
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: is going inevitably. I think he's going to be in

999
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: this top four one day. I think he's probably going

1000
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: to be in the top three one day. I think

1001
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 1: he's going to be an elite pull up jump shooter.

1002
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: The reason I have him down at number seven, though,

1003
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: is I just don't know if I can trust Ant's

1004
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: shoulder the load of an entire side of the basketball

1005
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: just yet. Because of those limitations. I think he's a

1006
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: good defender and you can build a great defense around him.

1007
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: I think he's a good playmaker at this point.

1008
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 4: To me, it's like.

1009
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: It's hard with the situation again because the Wolves are

1010
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 1: a great defense and and is their number one offensively.

1011
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 1: But I just trust other guys to impact the game,

1012
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: you know, in other different facets more. I do have

1013
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: Tatum above him, and I have one more guy above

1014
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: him that I just trust more to make me elite

1015
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: on one side of the basketball.

1016
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 2: And so did Tatum at five or Tatum at six?

1017
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: I have Tatum at six, and then I have Anthony

1018
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:26,479
Speaker 1: Davis at five.

1019
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis at five. That's interesting. I have Anthony Davis

1020
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 2: at six. So we're going to debate him in just

1021
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 2: a minute. Did you have any other thoughts on it

1022
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 2: before we no, sir, okay, So a couple of stats

1023
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: really quick for you guys. Jason Tatum's playoff run twenty

1024
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: five ten and six on fifty five percent. Ture shooting

1025
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: twenty five, ten and six. Anthony Edwards's Western Conference Finals

1026
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 2: the series everyone thought he sucked twenty five to nine

1027
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 2: and eight on fifty four percent.

1028
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 3: Does that feel refrashedically? I mean, think about all of

1029
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 3: the stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet,

1030
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 3: think about like all the advantages Tatum created putting the

1031
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 3: defense in rotation, maybe not in assist How did you

1032
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 3: change the entire You don't think I think that that

1033
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 3: was more advantage for Tatum than for ant.

1034
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: I think I think that Tatum is a far more impactful,

1035
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 2: far more impactful defensive player. Right now. I think I

1036
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 2: think you were a little bit more high on ants

1037
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 2: on the ball even than I am. I think we're

1038
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 2: not factoring in enough the job here. Like you realize

1039
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 2: what was the advantage that Tatum was creating for the Celtics.

1040
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 2: He was running ball screens, typically with guards, where he

1041
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 2: would draw a second defender and then throw a shovel

1042
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 2: pass over to Derek White standing wide open at the

1043
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 2: top of the key as the defenders closing out at

1044
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 2: his other opposite shoulder, and Derek White would rip through,

1045
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 2: finish the advantage and go from there. Or Tatum would

1046
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: get a weaker defender on a swim to someone like

1047
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 2: Jason Tatum, beat him off the dribble, make that first

1048
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: driving kick pass. You don't think Anthony Edwards could do that.

1049
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: You realize Anthony Edwards was bringing a second defender to

1050
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 2: the screen every single time against Dallas. The problem was

1051
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: as a team they couldn't confront it, and again, like

1052
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: he was, it is being painted as like a choke

1053
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 2: job of a series. He had thirty nine assists and

1054
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 2: seventeen turnovers in five games against a defense that was

1055
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 2: entirely geared to solving him down. Now, for the record,

1056
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 2: I actually agree that if I had to start a

1057
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 2: playoff series two marrow, I would still give a slight

1058
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 2: edge to Jason Tatum. But as I discussed in my list,

1059
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 2: this is a theoretical situation where my playoff run is

1060
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 2: starting in April. I've got another seven months worth of

1061
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: reps that ANT is going to get. I've got another

1062
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: I've got a lot more experience that I'm building around

1063
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 2: ANT over that particular time. The point that I was

1064
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 2: trying to make is that like literally, at this point,

1065
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: like Jason Tatum in a situation that, like, guys, let

1066
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: me just paint it for you very simply, if we

1067
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 2: just took Anthony Edwards and swapped him for Jason Tatum,

1068
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 2: Just think for a minute, what would the offense look

1069
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 2: like in Boston? Like, what would it look like? Do

1070
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: you think ANT would struggle to generate shots for that team?

1071
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 4: Be beautiful?

1072
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 2: Can you imagine guys, this was what was crazy. Like

1073
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 2: Anthony Edwards got more shot attempts at the rim than

1074
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: any guard under six to six in the entire league

1075
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 2: playing alongside Rudy Gobert in a two center system with

1076
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 2: a bunch of defensive specialists on the floor. Like, that's

1077
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 2: the type of rim pressure that he brings to the table.

1078
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: And so a lot of my pick there with ant Is,

1079
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 2: I'm projecting him to have an MVP caliber season. I

1080
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: think he's going to be finished in the top three

1081
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 2: or four in MVP voting. I think he's gonna play

1082
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 2: seventy five plus games. I think he's going to be

1083
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: one of the best playoff players in the league next year,

1084
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:55,959
Speaker 2: even though there are some limitations there. And I agree

1085
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: there are certainly some limitations there. I think ant Is,

1086
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 2: I'm with you, guys. I think he's really scratching the

1087
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: surface of his potential. But I think a lot of

1088
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: the way we discuss Tatum, like he does have he

1089
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: is an incredibly versatile basketball player, I want to be

1090
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 2: clear about that, but like his weakness is top end ability,

1091
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 2: Like he does not have an elite first step. He

1092
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 2: is not an elite shooter. And when you are playing

1093
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 2: in situations where the talent around you is not as

1094
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 2: good as it is elsewhere in the league. That is

1095
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 2: where your top end talent is what allows you to

1096
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 2: transcend the circumstances around you. And like I, let's just

1097
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 2: put it. Let's just let's take this for example, if

1098
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: you ask Jason Tatum to run the Minnesota offense this year.

1099
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: This year, they were what eighteenth in offensive rating or

1100
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 2: were they seventeenth something like that. They I'm pulling it

1101
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 2: up real quick. They the Minnesota Timberwolves this year were

1102
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 2: seventeenth in offense. If Jason Tatum was the primary offensive

1103
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 2: engine for that team, are they a top ten offense suddenly?

1104
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 3: Absolutely not. The gap is not offensive. I want to

1105
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 3: be clear about that. I do think that Tatum is

1106
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 3: I think he is a slightly better playmaker than and

1107
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 3: I think he's clearly a better playmaker than Ant. I

1108
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 3: also think that Ant is clearly a better scorer. So

1109
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 3: that's the thing. That's the only reason that I advocate

1110
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,439
Speaker 3: for Tatum at all, because I think it was a

1111
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 3: brutal postseason for him as a scorer, but I thought

1112
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 3: it was really good in terms of playmaking. The gap,

1113
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 3: to me is defensive, and the gap is if we're

1114
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 3: starting a team from scratch. Jason Tatum is the most

1115
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 3: versatile player in basketball, and that's where I couldn't agree

1116
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 3: with you more. He doesn't have an A plus trait.

1117
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 3: He is B plus at everything, though, and that does

1118
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 3: create a malleability where he can be effectively your point

1119
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 3: guard offensively in the NBA Finals, and he can be

1120
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 3: your center defensively. And I still don't think he gets

1121
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 3: enough credit because everybody looks at Jalen Brown and the

1122
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 3: job that he did on Ball on Luca, which was

1123
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 3: super impressive. But Tatum's ability to be the primary matchup

1124
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 3: for the centers, to hang with them on the glass,

1125
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 3: to not get attacked in terms of post mismatches, and

1126
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 3: then to legitimately switch one through five like that shut

1127
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 3: down so much of the desperation that other defenses had

1128
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 3: to go to right blitzing and creating four on threes

1129
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 3: and getting these easy lobs off the role. Like I

1130
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 3: think Tatum was the most important defensive player in that series,

1131
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,959
Speaker 3: and that's just a weapon and an impact he has

1132
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 3: that Aunt doesn't at this stage. So long term, I

1133
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 3: think Ant's gonna be better than Tatum. Like, I feel weird.

1134
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 3: I feel so weird about how everything's gotten with Tatum

1135
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 3: because I feel like there were so many people last

1136
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 3: year who wanted him to be in the MVP conversation,

1137
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 3: and I was like, he's just not at that level

1138
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 3: as an individual player. But then after the playoffs, I mean,

1139
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 3: there are so many people who take it much too

1140
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 3: far and say he's not top ten and are just

1141
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 3: solely focused on the scoring. And my take on that

1142
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 3: is it's always been an inconsistency of his it's always

1143
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 3: been frustrating. The three of us have harped many many

1144
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 3: times on his reliance on the pull up three and

1145
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 3: the volatility there, Like we can't pretend that that's never

1146
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 3: gonna happen again, that that like was just some miraculous

1147
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 3: misfortune in this postseason, but it was the worst possible

1148
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 3: version of it. And when I think about a Tatum

1149
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 3: who shoots thirty eight percent from over a playoff run,

1150
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 3: which is totally possible, Like that's just the most complete

1151
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 3: player in basketball. Definitely not the best, not top three,

1152
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 3: not even top five, because I don't think Tatum is

1153
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 3: a top five player in basketball in a vacuum when healthy.

1154
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:16,439
Speaker 3: I just think he and Ant are the two most

1155
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 3: available stars and Jokic, so I really like them to

1156
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 3: carry me through a regular season and just consistently be

1157
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 3: out there on the court. But he's very complete, and

1158
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 3: he's extremely versatile, and at this stage, I do think

1159
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 3: that maturity makes a difference. An It's twenty three, so

1160
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 3: I cannot whatsoever discount the possibility that Ant takes a

1161
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 3: slightly bigger lead than I'm expecting, and that could be

1162
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 3: the difference between him being five and seven this year.

1163
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 3: And I do think he has a higher ceiling than Tatum,

1164
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 3: and I think he'll eventually be better than Tatum. It's

1165
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 3: just at this point I do trust Tatum more in

1166
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 3: terms of all around impact.

1167
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 2: I think you made a very good case. I for

1168
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 2: the record, I have Jason Tatum at seven and I

1169
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,959
Speaker 2: do not see a gap. There's not a large gap.

1170
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 2: These guys are all kind of the same tier. For me.

1171
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 2: I just my case has been very simple that like

1172
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 2: I believe, especially by April, that Anthony Edwards's top end skill,

1173
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 2: that ability to just get to a spot. So, like you,

1174
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 2: in this postseason run, all of his struggles were against

1175
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: double teams. It was double teams in passivity. There was

1176
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: no one on one matchup where he struggled. Absolutely, There's

1177
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 2: really no one that can guard him, and that to

1178
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: me is that top end skill. I for the record,

1179
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 2: as I'm building a roster around ant, I would be

1180
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: hyper focused on finding a versatile defensive forward to play

1181
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 2: at the four that can do a lot of the

1182
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 2: stuff Tatum does. And I am such a huge believer

1183
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: in everything that he did. I agree with you, Like,

1184
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 2: even though Jalen Brown won the MVP, so to speak,

1185
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 2: I actually still think Tatum was their most useful and

1186
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 2: most important player over the course of that playoff run.

1187
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 2: He just isn't playing very well right now, which is

1188
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 2: a whole other issue, which I think he's gonna be fine.

1189
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 2: But that was definitely the biggest debate in my list

1190
00:57:53,360 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 2: was where we have Ant So number six I had

1191
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis. The main reasoning there is, like Anthony Davis

1192
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,479
Speaker 2: at the best postseason or post up season of his career,

1193
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 2: He's taken a significant leap as an individual shot creator

1194
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 2: in a way that he had in the past. Like

1195
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 2: you can dump the ball to the post to Anthony

1196
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 2: Davis and it's actually good offense now in a way

1197
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: that it wasn't in earlier phases of his career. I'm

1198
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 2: a huge fan of him as a five out fulcrum,

1199
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 2: like just in general, it's like a guy who screens

1200
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 2: and rolls into space and is in functions as a score.

1201
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 2: I actually think other than Jokic, he can't do much

1202
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 2: better than him. He was another guy who shot over

1203
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 2: fifty percent on floaters and hooks. He didn't shoot over

1204
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 2: sixty percent like Jokic's crazy ass, but he shot extremely

1205
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 2: well on floaters and hooks. That was a big leap

1206
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 2: forward for him this year. I thought he was incredibly

1207
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: impressive in the first round series. I thought he played

1208
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 2: Jokic to his standstill. Though I thought he was incredible

1209
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 2: in that series, I thought he was going right out

1210
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 2: of my account. I logged the possessions earlier. There were

1211
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 2: nine possessions where he like straight up went at Jokic

1212
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 2: one on one, and he scored on him seven of

1213
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 2: the nine times. By the tail end of the series,

1214
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 2: Denver was like straight up double teaming him on the catch,

1215
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 2: switching Aaron Gordon on him, overloading the paint. They were

1216
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 2: doing all kinds of stuff like that. I think Anthony

1217
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 2: Davis is a very useful offensive foundation, and I think

1218
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 2: he's one of the very best defensive foundations in the league.

1219
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: He's been very available over the course of the last

1220
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 2: year and a half. I think he's a player that

1221
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 2: scales up in the postseason. I think he's incredibly versatile

1222
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 2: to build around. I can run four out offense. You

1223
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 2: could plug him with Luca and he'd be the most

1224
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 2: devastating roleman in the league as a like a spamming

1225
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 2: high ball screen kind of guy. But you could also

1226
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: put him in Golden State and he could run five

1227
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 2: out offense. You could put him in Sacramento, you could

1228
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 2: put him in you can put him with any type

1229
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: of guard, any type of wing. Hell, he's playing with

1230
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: Lebron James as a forward where they're switching all these

1231
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 2: actions and he's still having a bunch of success as

1232
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 2: a post player. I just am super high on Anthony Davis.

1233
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 2: I think he's been playing at an incredibly high level

1234
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 2: in the calendar year, going from the tail end of

1235
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 2: the regular season, that first round series against Denver, and

1236
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 2: then he was one of the five most impactful players

1237
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 2: on Team USA this year. I'm really high on Anthony Davis.

1238
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 2: I'm gonna kick it to you first, Logan, because I

1239
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 2: know you're really high on Anthony Davis. So tell us

1240
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: where specifically you had him ranked and why you feel.

1241
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 4: That I have ad at number five.

1242
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: And it's the difference in consistency that I feel like

1243
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: I'm getting with Anthony Davis. Right two years ago, three

1244
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: years ago, every other Davis and it was a reasonable knock. Right,

1245
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 1: that was what everybody said about him, the passivity, the

1246
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: inability to.

1247
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 4: Play hard, like he looks scared out there.

1248
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis to me, looks confident in a way offensively

1249
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: that I've never really seen him before. And it looks

1250
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: very different from his elite jump shooting run during the

1251
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: title run. It looks very different from even New Orleans

1252
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: when he's handling the rock. But I think it's a

1253
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: more reliable and refined offensive game. It's you know, strength

1254
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: where he has a strength advantage over most big men

1255
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: in the league today and he can go through guys

1256
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: and use that physical kind of game. But he's also

1257
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: got a little finesse right shooting turnarounds over his shoulder,

1258
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: the hooks, and the other aspects of the post game

1259
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: that he's added to his bag, and so I think

1260
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: he's a good offensive floor piece, and then defensively, he's

1261
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: the best defender on the planet and he's going to

1262
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: make me an elite defense. The reason the Lakers have

1263
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 1: been a good regular season team is because of Anthony Davis.

1264
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: And when we're talking about it in this sort of context,

1265
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: the malleability of my roster, Anthony Davis compliments anybody that

1266
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: I get him, right, I compare an elite defender and

1267
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: shooter alongside Anthony Davis. I can get a guard and

1268
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: he's going to set screens and be a great compliment

1269
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: for him there on the role. But he gives me

1270
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: the highest defensive baseline of anybody in the league. And

1271
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: you talk about that series against the Nuggets. I was

1272
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: really high on Anthony Davis coming into the postseason, coming

1273
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: into last year, right, he was a top ten guy

1274
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: to me. That series that we saw against Denver, and

1275
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: admittedly Jokic did not play a good defense series, Anthony

1276
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: Davis kind of bullied him offensively, that is, and it

1277
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: was a weaker matchup, but I was really impressed, and

1278
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: that offensive difference is why I'm fine with him being

1279
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: five right two years ago, three years ago. Those offensive

1280
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 1: limitations may have put him lower on this list, but

1281
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: I'm confident in him as an offensive player, and it's

1282
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: that ability to anchor the glass, it's.

1283
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 4: All of it.

1284
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 1: He's super well rounded, and I just think he'd compliment

1285
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: anybody that I could have in the second round. He

1286
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: just gives me such a high baseline. I know we're

1287
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 1: gonna get to the playoffs. I know we're gonna have

1288
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: an elite defense, and he's gonna do enough offensively on

1289
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: a night to night basis to carry me through. I'm

1290
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: really really high on AD and I don't know when

1291
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: the drop is coming right. Ad is getting up there

1292
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: an age, but to me, he's still in his prime

1293
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: a little bit. In this version of Anthony Davis is

1294
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: a little craftier, he's a little smarter. You know, it's

1295
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: a grown man. I know what I'm getting. He's a

1296
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,439
Speaker 1: real sure thing. And so that's why Ad is five

1297
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: for me.

1298
01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 2: Ad is tough.

1299
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 3: I have number eight. I think he's better than ANT.

1300
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 3: I just think health is more of a concern here,

1301
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 3: and he just had his healthiest season in a long time,

1302
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 3: arguably of his career, which was awesome. I just cannot

1303
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 3: erase the track record, which is that he's one of

1304
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 3: the most injury prone superstars in basketball. Twenty twenty one

1305
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 3: misses half the games, twenty twenty two misses more than

1306
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 3: half the games, twenty three still misses twenty six games.

1307
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 3: And it's great that he was fully healthy this year

1308
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 3: all the way through the postseason even but I still

1309
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 3: think that like that's an advantage that an ant that

1310
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 3: a Tatum have that I just know that I can

1311
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 3: pencil them in for seventy five to eighty games, and

1312
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 3: I cannot possibly do that for Anthony Davis. However, I

1313
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 3: do think he and Lebron are very very close. For me,

1314
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 3: I went back and forth between the two of them. Ultimately,

1315
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 3: I think I would rather take Lebron for that one

1316
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 3: game do or die format because of how he can

1317
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 3: just completely control a game offensively and impose himself physically

1318
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 3: and just create great shot after great shot for himself

1319
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 3: and others. But I do think Ad is the most

1320
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 3: important regular season player because of what he brings as

1321
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 3: a defensive anchor. As you mentioned, Logan, I think he's

1322
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 3: the best defender on the planet. I think that he

1323
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 3: is the most complete defensive big when you consider the

1324
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 3: ability to guard in space, to play multiple different coverages,

1325
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 3: to be an elite rint protector, having great hands right

1326
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 3: when it comes to getting in passing lanes, affecting pocket passes,

1327
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 3: and he's a dominant, dominant rebounder of the basketball at

1328
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 3: this stage of his career. All of that makes him

1329
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 3: like the perfect one. B. The other reason, on top

1330
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 3: of his health, that I couldn't quite have him in

1331
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 3: the top five is I do just think there is

1332
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 3: still a different level of complete offensive dominance from most

1333
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 3: of the dudes in that range, or with Tatum at least,

1334
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 3: there's a different level of offensive versatility. Like eighty at

1335
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 3: this point is a damn good scorer of the basketball,

1336
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 3: but of course he's more limited as a playmaker than

1337
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 3: any somebody else who we're going to talk about in

1338
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 3: the top ten, and he just like can't carry that

1339
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 3: sort of usage, carry that sort of load where he

1340
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 3: is like elevating a team offense in the same way,

1341
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 3: he is very much meant to be the play finisher.

1342
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 3: And you mentioned Jason, He's improved as a self creator.

1343
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 3: He's a really good post player, his touch has been phenomenal,

1344
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 3: But like fundamentally he is built to be the interior

1345
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 3: finisher in my opinion, alongside a great pick and roll

1346
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 3: ball handler, a great perimeter offensive player, and so basically

1347
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 3: to be a number two offensively, just a great number two.

1348
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 3: That's the reason, along with his health, that I have

1349
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 3: him a couple spots lower than you guys. I just

1350
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 3: think there are certain dudes who can carry heavier loads.

1351
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 3: Everybody on the list offensively.

1352
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird because everybody after four I think has

1353
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 2: a glaring hole, Like I have Anthony Davis at five,

1354
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 2: or excuse me, Anthony Edwards at five. For him, it's

1355
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 2: experience and decision making right, Like it's like you can't

1356
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 2: afford to have two really bad games in the Western

1357
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 2: Conference Finals because you can't figure out what's happening to you.

1358
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 2: Like he averaged something crazy like twenty eight, nine and

1359
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 2: ten over the final three games of that series. Like

1360
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 2: he like he woke up. But it's like those two

1361
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 2: games he fell out, fell down two zero, and both

1362
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 2: of those games were winnable. Those are both games that

1363
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 2: were close, and it's like, that's that's catastrophic. Ad. I

1364
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 2: agree with you. He's just doesn't quite have that like

1365
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 2: real offensive engine type of capability. We talked about Tatum

1366
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 2: and now he doesn't have an eight plus skill. They

1367
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 2: all have those issues, and so that to me is

1368
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 2: where like you could really kind of you could like

1369
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 2: Devil's advocate your way into anybody on this list being anywhere,

1370
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 2: like like just by by hyper focusing on that. Like

1371
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 2: Ad should be eleven because he's not as high level

1372
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 2: an offensive player like Joel, and Bid should be number

1373
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,000
Speaker 2: five because he's won an MVP. You know, like you

1374
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 2: could go back and forth on any of these guys,

1375
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 2: and but the case you make, I think makes a

1376
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 2: lot of sense that it's wish there's a certain amount

1377
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 2: of wishful thinking with AD's availability. He's been very available

1378
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 2: for a season and a half. Is that a blip

1379
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 2: or is that a trend? That's what we're gonna find

1380
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 2: out right, Like you can uh definitely poke holes there.

1381
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 2: But for me, yeah, I just the other things too.

1382
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 2: For Ad, why I had him up there. He's one

1383
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 2: of my favorite rock fight players in the NBA, Like

1384
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 2: when you find yourself in like a real just shitthole

1385
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 2: of an ugly playoff game, like he's just a dude

1386
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 2: you want on your team because he's gonna get offensive

1387
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 2: rebound put backs. He's gonna be banging and playing in

1388
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 2: the physicality and doing well. Like he's just the kind

1389
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 2: of guy I like having in those settings. Number seven,

1390
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 2: I had Jason Tatum. We're not gonna spend too much

1391
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 2: time on him here, just because we've talked about him

1392
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 2: quite a bit. But yeah, again, Carson, I thought you

1393
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: did a wonderful job breaking down his defensive versatility. He

1394
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 2: in all likelihood, is the most versatile defensive forward that's

1395
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 2: not a center. I think, I think you'd rather have

1396
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 2: a guy like Bam or Ad playing those kinds of roles,

1397
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 2: but it's just unrealistic because they're centers. But like among

1398
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 2: the non centers, he's our most versatile defensive player in

1399
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 2: the NBA. I even I even include Giannis as like

1400
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 2: a center type of archetype in a lot of ways.

1401
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 2: So like, I agree with you in that sense. I

1402
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 2: thought I thought that, like his offensive role was very

1403
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 2: small and simple, but I also thought he executed it well, Like, yeah,

1404
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: just get that initial advantage and we'll play driving kick.

1405
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 2: That's a very easy role. There are a lot of

1406
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 2: players in the league that would kill to have that role,

1407
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 2: but that's the role Tatum has and he did it

1408
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 2: extremely well. Who did I have? So hold on really quick,

1409
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:19,640
Speaker 2: I have Carson. You had Tatum at five? Who did

1410
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 2: you have at se second?

1411
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 3: Give him my six yet?

1412
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 2: And okay, why don't you why don't you go ahead

1413
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 2: and give us your sex.

1414
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 3: No, this guy is just off your list, Jason. I

1415
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 3: have Joel Embiid in my sixth spot, which is interesting

1416
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 3: because similarly to Tatum, who I think I have higher

1417
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 3: than some people might at this point. Like I've been

1418
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 3: a big, big Embiid critic over the years, and when

1419
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 3: people have elevated him into the best player of the

1420
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 3: world conversation, I just don't think that he's earned that.

1421
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 3: And I do think that there are very very legitimate

1422
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 3: qualms with his postseason performance that doesn't just come down

1423
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,640
Speaker 3: to dumb luck, like there are things that have consistently

1424
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 3: failed him. The reason I have him at the most

1425
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 3: obvious red flag and reason to have him lower than

1426
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 3: this or to have him off your list is health.

1427
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,679
Speaker 3: I mean, he is the most injury prone player on

1428
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:14,679
Speaker 3: this list, more so than ad, more so than anybody

1429
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 3: else who you would have on this list. Here, though,

1430
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 3: I am going with a little bit of optimism when

1431
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 3: I think about the ceiling that is presented by any

1432
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 3: of these players, like the gap between Embiid and everybody

1433
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 3: outside of my top four in this list, Jokic, Jannis, Luke,

1434
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 3: Sga like, it's just massive. I think that when Luke,

1435
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 3: when Embiid is playing at his best, when he's healthy

1436
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:42,639
Speaker 3: and available over the course of a season postseason, which

1437
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 3: to be fair, he's never been healthy over the course

1438
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 3: of an entire season. But if you get that one run,

1439
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 3: if you strike that gold, I just think the gap

1440
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 3: in the ceiling justifies me having him above an ant

1441
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 3: who I don't think is that level of a dominant force. Yet,

1442
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:01,120
Speaker 3: like when Embide is on the floor, he's just a

1443
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 3: one of a kind monster. Like this is a dude

1444
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 3: who legitimately can give you thirty three to thirty five

1445
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,680
Speaker 3: points a night on a lead efficiency, who was unstoppable

1446
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 3: facing up, who's two hundred and eighty plus pounds, and

1447
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 3: yet handles the ball very effectively, obviously going to eat

1448
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 3: up free throws and then defensively, I have my issues

1449
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 3: with him. I think sometimes he gets overrated there because

1450
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,600
Speaker 3: of his limitations in space, because of his lack of

1451
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 3: quickness moving up and down the floor in transition, but

1452
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 3: as a pure improtector, he's one of the best that

1453
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 3: we have in basketball, So there's just a ceiling of

1454
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 3: taking away the rim and being completely unguardable as a

1455
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 3: scorer offensively. That makes him obviously one of the absolute

1456
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 3: best regular season playoff performers. The reasons that it hasn't

1457
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 3: translated in the same way to the playoffs. His jump

1458
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:53,640
Speaker 3: shot has consistently failed him, and this year was improvement

1459
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 3: in that respect. Like we saw him actually have some

1460
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 3: really good jump shooting performances against the Knicks. It was

1461
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 3: still inconsistent, but like the couple years before that, he's

1462
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 3: averaging zero point six points per jump shot in the playoffs,

1463
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 3: which is just awful and way, way, way worse than

1464
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 3: what we've seen from him in the regular season. His playmaking, also,

1465
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 3: where he's going to see way more double teams in

1466
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 3: the playoffs, has consistently been an issue every year. I'm

1467
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 3: pretty sure before this season he had a negative assist

1468
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 3: to turnover ratio, and yeah, he demands a huge amount

1469
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:27,640
Speaker 3: of defensive attention, but he was not able to consistently

1470
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 3: create a high shot quality for his teammates as much

1471
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 3: as he should considering how many double teams he's drawing,

1472
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 3: because he didn't always make the reads turn the ball

1473
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,919
Speaker 3: over too much. I also think him wearing down physically

1474
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:40,680
Speaker 3: is a factor here, because even though he's been on

1475
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 3: the floor in these recent postseasons, rarely has he been

1476
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. And I don't think that's a cop out.

1477
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 3: I mean, this year was the most hurt that he's

1478
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 3: been with the meniscus, and it was the best he's played,

1479
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:54,839
Speaker 3: So I do think that that's a bright spot overall,

1480
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 3: even though it was still a flawed performance. But like

1481
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 3: if you're an NB defender, there's always been something that

1482
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 3: you could point at. Right, he broke his face, he's

1483
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 3: sick his knee this year, and so you have to

1484
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 3: factor that in. But I think that there is a

1485
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 3: level of dominance that he can reach that is just

1486
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 3: different from everybody else who I have below him on

1487
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 3: my list. So I have him at six because of that.

1488
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 3: If I'm just thinking you are my number one, I

1489
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 3: need you to carry me to a title. I need

1490
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 3: you to carry me to fifty five wins in the

1491
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 3: regular season, and be it has a capability to do

1492
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 3: that that the people below him can't. But I also

1493
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 3: understand if because of health, because of playoff stuff, because

1494
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 3: of lack of stylistic versatility, you have him off your

1495
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 3: list because all of those things have come back to

1496
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 3: bite him.

1497
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 2: To your point, there's nobody that could like actually run

1498
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 2: rough shot over everyone else on this list, Like you know,

1499
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 2: like if you were like, hey, Steph Curry's just gonna

1500
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 2: like fuck everyone up next year and just like just

1501
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 2: outplay Luca head to head and then he's gonna outplay

1502
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 2: Yokic had to head, like you would be stunned if

1503
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 2: you saw something like that. But like Joel Embiid has

1504
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 2: that potential that's always in there, Like I've been saying

1505
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 2: this forever, like he might just wrecking ball everybody at

1506
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,599
Speaker 2: some point. Like he has that potential in a way

1507
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 2: that no one else on this list does. I had

1508
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,559
Speaker 2: him down at eleven for the simple fact that he

1509
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 2: is a down mark in all three of my primary criteria.

1510
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 2: Is he a reliable regular season performer in the sense

1511
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 2: like is he gonna play seventy five plus games and

1512
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 2: give you consistent production every single night?

1513
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 1: No?

1514
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 2: Is he the guy that ramps his game up in

1515
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 2: the postseason. No, it's the opposite. Is he a guy

1516
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 2: that plays that has a lot of versatility in different

1517
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 2: types of play style. No, he's a drop coverage big.

1518
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 2: He can't guard in space. He has to play. I

1519
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 2: don't even think he's a good high drop coverage big.

1520
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 2: I think he needs to be in a deep drop

1521
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:42,680
Speaker 2: I think that's pretty much the only way you can play.

1522
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 2: You got to park him out at the rim. And

1523
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 2: we've seen him against the Celtics in particular, really struggle

1524
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 2: to guard in space. And then on the opposite end

1525
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 2: of the floor, guys like we just saw him look

1526
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 2: like a fish out of water playing alongside other players

1527
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,280
Speaker 2: in ball and player movement, like literally look like he

1528
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 2: doesn't know what to do. And so those three reasons

1529
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 2: for me were the main reasons I put him at

1530
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 2: the bottom of this list. But to be clear, I

1531
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 2: don't see much gap between five and eleven. That was

1532
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 2: just my rationale for putting him at eleven. Logan, I have,

1533
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 2: so I have eighty at five for you, who do

1534
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:13,880
Speaker 2: you have at number six?

1535
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,599
Speaker 4: We already talked about him in depth. I have Tatum

1536
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 4: at six.

1537
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 2: You have Tatum at six, Okay, who do you have

1538
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 2: at number seven? Logan?

1539
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 4: At seven.

1540
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 1: We also already talked about him. That is Bruce A

1541
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:25,720
Speaker 1: loted Anthony Edwards.

1542
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 2: In that's where you have Aunt, Okay Carson. Who do

1543
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 2: you have at seven? Yeah? Aunt at seven? Okay Logan,

1544
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 2: Who do you have at number eight?

1545
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 4: At number eight, I have Stephan Curry.

1546
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 1: And Stephan was a hard guy to rank because we're

1547
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, flaws, and I think that Steph

1548
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 1: is probably not probably, I mean he's definitively the least

1549
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 1: impactful defender on this list.

1550
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 4: But again we're talking about situations. The Warriors have not

1551
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 4: done Stephan Curry any favors with their situation for the

1552
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:01,600
Speaker 4: past few years, I mean, no moves. He's carrying an insane.

1553
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:04,599
Speaker 1: Burden of this offense with I mean, who do you guys,

1554
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:06,599
Speaker 1: We'll take a poll over here real quick.

1555
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 4: Who was their second best offensive player last year? Was

1556
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:10,639
Speaker 4: it still Clay?

1557
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:13,480
Speaker 3: I thinks still Clay, which is not good.

1558
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd probably say Clay, but yeah it wouldn't. It

1559
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:19,679
Speaker 2: was close between him and Kmingo, which is not good,

1560
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 2: not at all.

1561
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: And so I think that Steph's issues in Steph's last

1562
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 1: stretch of this season, his last twenty games or what

1563
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 1: everybody wants to point to. I think it gets a

1564
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 1: little bit exacerbated because of how big the anvil is

1565
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 1: on Steph's shoulders, trying to carry this team with you know,

1566
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:39,799
Speaker 1: limited floor spacing, with lineups with Draymond Green, with TJD,

1567
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:43,519
Speaker 1: with Kevon Looney, with your second best with Kamingo, with

1568
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:46,720
Speaker 1: your second best offensive players being Klay Thompson or Kaminga

1569
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 1: or I mean beepods. Like, I think Steph has such

1570
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:55,240
Speaker 1: a hard job, and in this redraft, I can pick

1571
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:57,599
Speaker 1: whoever the hell I want around him. I'm just going

1572
01:15:57,600 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 1: to give him more options offensively. I'm gonna get another

1573
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: secondary superstar alongside him that can help alleviate some of

1574
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 1: this pressure off of him. And I think at certain

1575
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: positions I can pick and choose athletic, defensive minded guys.

1576
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 1: They're gonna make up for his limitations defensively. So I

1577
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:16,800
Speaker 1: do think that Steph has lost a little bit of

1578
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 1: a step in terms of athleticism, in terms of rim pressure, right,

1579
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 1: I think you'd be a fool to not highlight those things.

1580
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 1: But again, Steph can stress the defense the way nobody

1581
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 1: in NBA.

1582
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 4: History has ever been able to.

1583
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:31,719
Speaker 1: I mean, you saw it in the Olympics, Francis throwing

1584
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 1: two dudes at him, and He's still like, yeah, give

1585
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: me the ball back because I'm gonna bang this thing.

1586
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 4: He's just that kind of player.

1587
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,840
Speaker 1: And when I'm thinking about the criteria here, Steph is

1588
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: still a playoff riser. I anticipate when he gets to

1589
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 1: that stage, He's one of the best gamers ever. He's

1590
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:47,719
Speaker 1: gonna take and elevate up a notch. He's the guy

1591
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 1: that in a Game seven, in a Game six, when

1592
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: I need to put the nail on the coffin, he

1593
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: can give me forty to fifty points when I need

1594
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,599
Speaker 1: him to. And during the regular season, he's gonna make

1595
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:01,240
Speaker 1: me a great offense if I have the personnel around him,

1596
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 1: and we're gonna be a good enough defense if I

1597
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 1: put the pieces around him. And so the real issue,

1598
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 1: the real tough decision I had to make here, was

1599
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: between Steph and Lebron, And the component for me between

1600
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 1: that matchup was who do I trust more in the

1601
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:17,640
Speaker 1: regular season to give me their all to play up

1602
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 1: to one hundred percent if this is a one game format.

1603
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you, guys, I think I

1604
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: might take Lebron over anybody that includes maybe not Jokic,

1605
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 1: but bronte Down, Settle Down, cow, Lebron. Lebron's one of

1606
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:31,599
Speaker 1: the top three guys that I'm taking in a single

1607
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 1: game format, but when we include the regular season component

1608
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 1: of it, that's where I have a harder time ranking Lebron.

1609
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 1: And so that's why I gave Steph the nod over him.

1610
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 1: But I just think he's got a really tough burden

1611
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,440
Speaker 1: on his shoulders in Golden State, and in a hypothetical

1612
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 1: redraft situation, I think I could be able a really,

1613
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:49,839
Speaker 1: really competitive team and a better team than the Warriors

1614
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 1: to put around him around stuff.

1615
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 2: The Steph Curry thing is is super challenging because, like,

1616
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 2: I am such a huge believer in Steph, but my

1617
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 2: belief hasn't matched up to the actual basketball that he's

1618
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 2: played over the course of this calendar year. Over the

1619
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 2: course of the final twenty three games of the regular season,

1620
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:28,320
Speaker 2: he averaged twenty two point seven points per game, four

1621
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 2: point eight rebounds, five point two assists. He shot forty

1622
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 2: one point nine percent from the field thirty seven point

1623
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:38,160
Speaker 2: five percent from three. That's that's not like a little

1624
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:41,719
Speaker 2: bit of a that's not superstar production anymore. And then

1625
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 2: he was pretty bad in the Winter the Winner Go

1626
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 2: Home game, and then he was pretty bad in the

1627
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 2: Team USA up until the final two games. And even then,

1628
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 2: like I was like frustrated watching the Serbia game because

1629
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 2: like he was hitting all these shots at the start

1630
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:00,639
Speaker 2: of the Serbia game, but like at the same time

1631
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:02,639
Speaker 2: losing shooters on the other end, not doing his job

1632
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 2: and giving up points, and like there's a certain amount

1633
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 2: of like athletic physical decline. But then there's this like

1634
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 2: other side of me that is such a believer in

1635
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:15,240
Speaker 2: all the intangible things that Steph does, like like just

1636
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:17,879
Speaker 2: something simple, like just him running around is an offensive

1637
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 2: engine in a way that it isn't for other teams.

1638
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 2: And like even with Team USA, like even when he

1639
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 2: wasn't shooting well, he was still creating all of these

1640
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 2: openings and these opportunities for people. And like, I think

1641
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 2: he's one of the best leaders in the league. Logan,

1642
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 2: I agree with you. Like I think Lebron, there's like

1643
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,599
Speaker 2: a certain amount of like will he try hard tonight,

1644
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 2: whereas with Steph, like I at least think he's gonna try,

1645
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:41,720
Speaker 2: Like he just has a more consistent nightly effort kind

1646
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:43,559
Speaker 2: of regimen in the regular season. It's kind of like

1647
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 2: part of his identity. He's one of the most well

1648
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 2: conditioned stars in the league. But it's just tough because,

1649
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 2: like there's been a legitimate defensive decline, Like he's gone

1650
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:53,599
Speaker 2: from being a guy who's slightly above average on defense

1651
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 2: to probably more on the below average side. He's just

1652
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 2: isn't as athletic as he used to be. That as

1653
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:01,759
Speaker 2: far as everyone talks about the roster, and I agree,

1654
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 2: like he has easily the worst roster of these eleven guys.

1655
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 2: That goes without saying, But in twenty twenty one, he

1656
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 2: had an even worse roster than this, and he would,

1657
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:13,880
Speaker 2: like know Klay Thompson, that was the Kelly Ubra year,

1658
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 2: that was the Camp Basemore year. Like that was a

1659
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 2: funky ass roster and and he was torching everybody because

1660
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:24,479
Speaker 2: he still had that unbelievable superstar high end. So like,

1661
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:26,719
Speaker 2: I have this part of me, like and I truly

1662
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 2: believe this for the record, I believe that there's a

1663
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 2: good amount of slump going on there that he's going

1664
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:35,080
Speaker 2: to bounce back from. And I actually I actually believe

1665
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 2: that Steph's going to have a big bounce back season.

1666
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:39,800
Speaker 2: I think the Warriors will kind of rejoin the middle

1667
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 2: of the pack in the West, and Steph will kind

1668
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 2: of re enter some of those conversations. But that is

1669
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:47,760
Speaker 2: wishful thinking at this point that is not based on

1670
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 2: actual basketball that is taking place. Like that, we are

1671
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 2: on a large sample now of Steph not looking like

1672
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:58,559
Speaker 2: Steph with exception of really small bursts, and so that

1673
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 2: with that being the case, Like for instance, it's like

1674
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 2: Lebron and KD both of them just simply have better

1675
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:06,280
Speaker 2: cases to be above Steph at this point. They just do.

1676
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:10,760
Speaker 2: They're both substantially better two way players whenever they need

1677
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 2: to leverage their athletic gifts, and they both have been

1678
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 2: playing better offense for a long time now. So my

1679
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 2: wishful thinking isn't enough to justify like kind of taking

1680
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,000
Speaker 2: emotion out of it and trying to look at what's

1681
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,120
Speaker 2: actually taking place. So, Carson, where are you at with Steph?

1682
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:26,840
Speaker 2: Where do you have him? Right?

1683
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 3: I have Steph at ten, So I do have him

1684
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:32,919
Speaker 3: below Lebron, but I do actually have him above Katie.

1685
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 3: And the one thing that I'll push back on with

1686
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 3: him in relation to Katie is that I do still

1687
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:42,799
Speaker 3: think he's a better offensive engine. I understand Katie's scoring

1688
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:45,240
Speaker 3: efficiency is always going to be phenomenal. His scoring production

1689
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:47,760
Speaker 3: is always going to be phenomenal. But when you talk

1690
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 3: about the way that Steph stresses a defense in a

1691
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:53,080
Speaker 3: way that we've never seen before, like that is still

1692
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 3: leading the Warriors offense to produce at a level that

1693
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:59,759
Speaker 3: does not make any human sense. With him on the floor,

1694
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 3: they were an eighty second percentile offense this year, Like,

1695
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 3: how is that possible? With Clay chucking up the worst

1696
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:10,040
Speaker 3: shots you've seen in your lifetime? Wiggins just off again

1697
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:13,719
Speaker 3: for an entire year and often two complete, non shooting,

1698
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 3: unskilled scoring bigs on the floor an eighty second percentile offense,

1699
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 3: Like I do think that's where we have to give

1700
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 3: him at least some grace, some benefit of the doubt

1701
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:26,640
Speaker 3: for the situation, and give him credit for what he

1702
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:29,839
Speaker 3: has managed to salvage for making them a good offense

1703
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 3: in a competitive basketball team when there's just no reason

1704
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 3: that should be the case. Still also one of the

1705
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 3: most efficient scoring guards this year, Like you mentioned his slump, Jason,

1706
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 3: in spite of that, he was still sixty two percent

1707
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 3: true shooting on the season. So for all those reasons,

1708
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:48,800
Speaker 3: I still think he belongs on the list. I think

1709
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 3: people who are talking about the falloff of Steph need

1710
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 3: to settle down, understand the context, understand his one of

1711
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 3: one impact. Like if you want to compare him to Brunson,

1712
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, man, I just don't think that's like a real,

1713
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 3: real conversation yet. And I do think it's worth remembering.

1714
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 3: Last time it felt like Steph had regressed was in

1715
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:11,880
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty two regular season, and then he had

1716
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:14,720
Speaker 3: maybe the best playoff front of his career, and then

1717
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:18,799
Speaker 3: he had another phenomenal regular season and a really impressive

1718
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,439
Speaker 3: postseason overall in twenty twenty three. So although I do

1719
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:23,679
Speaker 3: think he's clearly taking a step back, I mean, Jason,

1720
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:26,720
Speaker 3: you're talking about twenty twenty one Steph. That's not the

1721
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:29,360
Speaker 3: Steph Curry that we're seeing, right, He's very clearly not

1722
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:31,680
Speaker 3: that player. Nor is he twenty twenty two, nor do

1723
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 3: I think he's twenty twenty three. But people who think

1724
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 3: the sky is falling that he's not a top ten player,

1725
01:23:37,439 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 3: I think are taking it too far. But we're talking

1726
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,320
Speaker 3: about a lot of elite, elite players around him who

1727
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 3: do have different levels of two way impact who do

1728
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:49,599
Speaker 3: have just completely different levels of physical imposition, And Steph

1729
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,000
Speaker 3: has taken a bit of a step back defensively. He

1730
01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 3: has taken a step back athletically. I mean he never

1731
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 3: gets to the rim any more. Seven percent of his

1732
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 3: shots were inside of three feet this year, Like you

1733
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 3: compare that to peak Steph even you know, five years ago,

1734
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,800
Speaker 3: like that number was in the low twenties. And so that,

1735
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:10,200
Speaker 3: although he is the best pull up shooter we've ever seen,

1736
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 3: does take away an element of his scoring game, not

1737
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 3: a major one, but a slight one in terms of

1738
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 3: both production and efficiency. And it wasn't his best playmaking season.

1739
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 3: So I have Steph down at ten. I do think

1740
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:25,400
Speaker 3: that when I compare him to an ad like the

1741
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:27,880
Speaker 3: two way impact just surpasses him. When I compare him

1742
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:32,000
Speaker 3: to a Lebron, I do trust Lebron to very consistently

1743
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 3: get what he wants more because he still has such

1744
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:39,000
Speaker 3: athletic advantages and so many ways to score and create

1745
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:42,080
Speaker 3: for others. But Steph is still one hell of an

1746
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:44,320
Speaker 3: offensive engine, and he still deserves a spot here.

1747
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's tough because, like if we were

1748
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:53,360
Speaker 2: using my criteria from last year, which was strictly like

1749
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 2: how good of a season did you have? He has

1750
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 2: no case for top ten. Steph has no case for

1751
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 2: top ten like Jalen Brunt and did have a better

1752
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 2: season than Steph last year like that, Like that, that

1753
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 2: is all stuff that you can get into. We are

1754
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 2: putting him at ten as a sign of respect in

1755
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 2: what we know he's capable of. That slump in twenty

1756
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 2: twenty two is something that I was calling attention to

1757
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 2: at the time, and that's one of the big reasons

1758
01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:21,599
Speaker 2: why I do believe he's going to bounce back this year.

1759
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:24,880
Speaker 2: It just was weird because, like to your point, during

1760
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 2: that twenty three game span from February twenty third on

1761
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 2: when he was in his slump, the Warriors only had

1762
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 2: a one to fourteen offensive rating with Steph on the floor.

1763
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 2: So like during this, like the reality is all the

1764
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 2: running around has a certain amount of value, but you

1765
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:41,080
Speaker 2: need Steph to hit shots. He needs to hit shots,

1766
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:43,599
Speaker 2: He needs to punish teams. There needs to be another

1767
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:46,240
Speaker 2: level of production there that he hasn't been able to

1768
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 2: get to. But like I think part like I would

1769
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 2: love to just see him get another chance because he

1770
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 2: is not set up for success at this point in time,

1771
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 2: and so I'm hopeful that Golden State gives him a

1772
01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:58,920
Speaker 2: little bit more firepower so we could at least maybe

1773
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 2: see whether or not this is something that he still

1774
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:04,680
Speaker 2: has in there. So, Carson, who did you have a

1775
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 2: number eight? You have ad at number eight, Okay, So

1776
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:14,679
Speaker 2: my number eight was Lebron. I think Lebron is playing

1777
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 2: if you strictly look at basketball played in this calendar

1778
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 2: year twenty twenty four, I don't think anybody has played

1779
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 2: better basketball than Lebron other than Luca and Jokic. I

1780
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 2: think that his playoff series was magnificent in a way

1781
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 2: that is like actually kind of overlooked, Like this is

1782
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:38,040
Speaker 2: what like the two games where Jamal Murray hit the

1783
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 2: game winners, Lebron was awesome in both of those games

1784
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 2: in clutch time, like Lebron. If you would have said, hey,

1785
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 2: it's gonna be a crunch time game and Lebron's gonna

1786
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:51,320
Speaker 2: hit these shots, You're like, oh, Lakers are winning this game.

1787
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 2: The problem was is Denver scored on every single possession

1788
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 2: down the stretch, and a big part of that is

1789
01:26:57,200 --> 01:27:01,519
Speaker 2: they are playing three average to be defensive players at

1790
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 2: all times. Because of their roster construct. They have Austin Reeves,

1791
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 2: who has no business guarding the opposing team's best perimeter

1792
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 2: star guarding the other team's best perimeter star, right, like

1793
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:16,000
Speaker 2: Michael Porter Junior was absolutely cutting up Ruey Hatcha Murra

1794
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 2: in screen actions because he just wasn't paying attention and

1795
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 2: getting lost off the ball. Now really had a bunch

1796
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 2: of other tough responsibility to spend a bunch of time

1797
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 2: on Jokich. It was a tough series, but like those

1798
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 2: guys were overmatched, and like, honestly I thought Lebron was

1799
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:33,760
Speaker 2: playing like true top tier superstar basketball in that first

1800
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 2: round series, and a couple of Jamal Murray buckets in

1801
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:40,400
Speaker 2: a Denver offense that was unstoppable at the end of

1802
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:42,719
Speaker 2: the game ended up being something that they couldn't overcome.

1803
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:45,040
Speaker 2: But Lebron was playing at an insanely high level in

1804
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 2: the postseason run. He played at an insanely high level

1805
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:51,840
Speaker 2: to end the regular season, and then in with Tim

1806
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 2: Usa like just another wonderful example of just his overall

1807
01:27:55,640 --> 01:28:01,160
Speaker 2: versatility and like everything that makes Lebron a Swiss army knife.

1808
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 2: And so again, I don't I think he's gonna play

1809
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:06,559
Speaker 2: you know, sixty five to seventy five games this year.

1810
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:09,679
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna play hard and maybe half of them,

1811
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 2: maybe half of them. So I think in terms of

1812
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:15,519
Speaker 2: regular season production, in terms of overall two way impact,

1813
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 2: he's probably close to the bottom of this list of eleven.

1814
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 2: But in any high leverage moment, I still should take

1815
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 2: Lebron over just about anybody in the world other than

1816
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:26,559
Speaker 2: those guys at this at the very top. So I

1817
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:28,559
Speaker 2: have him at number eight, did you guys, Why don't

1818
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 2: you guys, let's start with you. Logan, tell me where

1819
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:32,200
Speaker 2: you guys had Lebron right.

1820
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 1: Lebron in my next spot at number nine, and I

1821
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:35,519
Speaker 1: completely agree with what you just said.

1822
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:36,800
Speaker 4: That's the big component to me.

1823
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 1: A playoff run, a playoff series, a big game, a

1824
01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:45,479
Speaker 1: big moment. There's only one guy I'm taking over Lebron,

1825
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:47,600
Speaker 1: and that's Jokic, And that's just a testament to what

1826
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:49,559
Speaker 1: he is. The rim pressure he can still exert on

1827
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:54,000
Speaker 1: the game, the genius basketball IQ, the fact that I mean,

1828
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:56,600
Speaker 1: I think Lebron I can't remember the stat exactly, but

1829
01:28:56,640 --> 01:28:58,719
Speaker 1: it was like he's the only guy to shoot forty

1830
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:02,000
Speaker 1: percent from behind the arc in like seventy percent at

1831
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 1: the rim or something ridiculous like that, like that's forty

1832
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:08,680
Speaker 1: year old Lebron Man. That doesn't make any sense. Like

1833
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:12,280
Speaker 1: the fact that you're talking about the Denver series. The

1834
01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:14,000
Speaker 1: fact that he can go to basically a post up

1835
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:17,080
Speaker 1: against everybody and it's one of the most efficient play

1836
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:19,000
Speaker 1: types in all the basketball the fact that you have

1837
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 1: to send a second defender or he's getting that shot off.

1838
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 4: The physical tools combined with the skills.

1839
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 2: Quick quick stat for you guys logan, since you shouted

1840
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:30,439
Speaker 2: it out. Among high volume post up players players A

1841
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 2: ran at least two hundred fifty post ups last year,

1842
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 2: Lebron was second in the league behind your.

1843
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:39,840
Speaker 1: Kichredible the physical tools combined with the with the basketball

1844
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:43,160
Speaker 1: skill that he has, combined with the IQ, there's nobody

1845
01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:46,439
Speaker 1: else I would want in a big game playoff run.

1846
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:48,519
Speaker 4: It's only the regular season component.

1847
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:50,920
Speaker 1: Just because I know Lebron physically cannot hold up to

1848
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:53,639
Speaker 1: the physical toll that an eighty two game season would

1849
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 1: take on him. I just know he's not gonna exert

1850
01:29:56,040 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: himself physically the way I need my number one too.

1851
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 1: So that's why he's down at number It has nothing

1852
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:03,360
Speaker 1: to do with ability whatsoever.

1853
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:09,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I completely agree with Logan. I have Lebron at

1854
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:12,719
Speaker 3: nine as well, and it is because of the regular

1855
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:16,360
Speaker 3: season effort and also regular season availability. This was Lebron's

1856
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:19,040
Speaker 3: healthiest season in a while, but he's consistently been good

1857
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:21,680
Speaker 3: to miss twenty five thirty games a year over his

1858
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,400
Speaker 3: seasons with the Lakers. So yeah, he's not going to

1859
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:27,559
Speaker 3: carry you through a regular season in the same way

1860
01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 3: that some of the consistently available, very high effort younger

1861
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 3: players at the top of this list are. But he

1862
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 3: wouldn't be number two for me in a single game format,

1863
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 3: but I do think that he would probably be in

1864
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:45,000
Speaker 3: my five spot. I still believe very very deeply in

1865
01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 3: the consistent offensive brilliance of Lebron. He's a top three

1866
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:51,080
Speaker 3: transition scorer in basketball. He's an absolute freight train. He's

1867
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:53,639
Speaker 3: a genius playmaker, and he just had the best jump

1868
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 3: shooting season of his career, which I think was huge

1869
01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:59,959
Speaker 3: to him having such a great postseason, such a brilliant

1870
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:03,160
Speaker 3: regular season offensively, like when he's a forty percent three

1871
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:05,679
Speaker 3: point shooter, when he's that effective a spot up player,

1872
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 3: I mean, there's just not anything approaching a hole in

1873
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:13,599
Speaker 3: his game. Offensively, he's probably the most versatile offensive player

1874
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 3: in basketball. And when he wants to be still an

1875
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:19,639
Speaker 3: above average defender, still very good hands, still very smart,

1876
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:24,360
Speaker 3: good defensive rebounder, an above average lowman. I wouldn't call

1877
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:27,719
Speaker 3: him a good defender in totality because there's so many

1878
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 3: instances in which the effort and the focus just isn't there.

1879
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:32,320
Speaker 3: But again, if we're talking about one game.

1880
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:34,400
Speaker 2: Not in the regular season, yeah, not in the regular

1881
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:37,519
Speaker 2: he's he's Lebron is a bad defender in the regular season,

1882
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 2: like he because the problem too is the Lakers constantly

1883
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:44,240
Speaker 2: ask him to play that low man position behind Anthony Davis,

1884
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:46,400
Speaker 2: and that's like a position you have to play hard

1885
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:49,760
Speaker 2: and like, like Lebron just be like, I'll can see

1886
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 2: this layup on the role because I just feel like

1887
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 2: taking this possession off. Like, but he's also one of

1888
01:31:54,120 --> 01:31:56,160
Speaker 2: the best at it when you need him to be,

1889
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So, like that's the how

1890
01:31:57,920 --> 01:31:58,680
Speaker 2: do you qualify that?

1891
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 3: That's very much the story with Lebron. Right, we know

1892
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:04,040
Speaker 3: that he's not going to be the regular season performer

1893
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:06,400
Speaker 3: of these other guys, but we know in a high

1894
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:09,760
Speaker 3: stakes situation, like he is still among the absolute best

1895
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:12,120
Speaker 3: of the best. And the fact that that is still

1896
01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:15,800
Speaker 3: possible at forty years old, that he's going to be

1897
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:18,120
Speaker 3: this season, I mean, it's just unfathomable. We've never seen

1898
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 3: anything like it, you know, Kareem incredible longevity, Karl Malone,

1899
01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:26,519
Speaker 3: incredible longevity. We've never seen somebody playing at the level

1900
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 3: where you say, yeah, in a high stakes scenario, like

1901
01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:32,680
Speaker 3: they would be one of the first five dudes or

1902
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:34,400
Speaker 3: even first ten dudes that I would take off the

1903
01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:36,680
Speaker 3: board at forty years old. It's it's unthinkable.

1904
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:41,120
Speaker 2: So a couple of quick Lebron stats before we move on.

1905
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:44,040
Speaker 2: So his final twenty two games of the regular season,

1906
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 2: that's post All Star Break. So Lebron posts All Star

1907
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,639
Speaker 2: Break twenty eight points, eight rebounds, and ten assists, fifty

1908
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 2: eight percent from the field, forty five percent from three,

1909
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:56,040
Speaker 2: that's sixty seven percent true shooting like that. That is

1910
01:32:56,200 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 2: absolutely outrageous. He shot four for five in clutch situations

1911
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 2: in the Denver series and somehow lost both games. And like,

1912
01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:07,320
Speaker 2: what's crazy too, is like he was doing like he

1913
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 2: was hitting like tough, contested mid range pull up, like

1914
01:33:10,200 --> 01:33:13,160
Speaker 2: he was hitting like superstar shots too, Like he looked

1915
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:16,120
Speaker 2: like playing like at that top tier, superstar level. It

1916
01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:18,160
Speaker 2: just wasn't enough with that particular team. And I think,

1917
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:20,200
Speaker 2: you know so much talk about the Lakers that that's

1918
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:22,599
Speaker 2: one of the most common takes that I get, is like, oh,

1919
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:25,760
Speaker 2: if Lebron's at eight and AD's at six, how did

1920
01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:27,600
Speaker 2: they you know, how are they a playing team? And

1921
01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:29,479
Speaker 2: it's like, well, they've had that three and ten stretch,

1922
01:33:29,479 --> 01:33:31,720
Speaker 2: which obviously kind of nuked their regular season, but also

1923
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:34,639
Speaker 2: the Lakers were I thought the Lakers were good last year.

1924
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:37,519
Speaker 2: I mean they literally had seventeen wins against teams in

1925
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:39,879
Speaker 2: the top ten in point differential that tied the Celtics

1926
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:41,720
Speaker 2: for the most in the league. Like, I thought they

1927
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 2: did as good a job against Denver as you can

1928
01:33:43,439 --> 01:33:45,040
Speaker 2: do in a loss as you can do. Yeah, you know,

1929
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 2: that was a couple of Jamal Murray shots away from

1930
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:50,880
Speaker 2: being a much longer and more of a coin flip

1931
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:51,479
Speaker 2: type of series.

1932
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:53,960
Speaker 3: Ad were both great in that series. I mean Ad

1933
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:57,000
Speaker 3: was the best offensively that we've seen him, easily since

1934
01:33:57,040 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 3: the bubble. Lebron was brilliant, Like it was just an

1935
01:34:00,120 --> 01:34:04,240
Speaker 3: all time disaster class from the role players. And there's

1936
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 3: issues in roster construction, as you mentioned, but I understand

1937
01:34:08,200 --> 01:34:11,559
Speaker 3: how it seems counterintuitive. I also don't understand how you

1938
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:15,320
Speaker 3: can actually watch and disagree that these are two top

1939
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:19,080
Speaker 3: ten players like they just are. Watch how Lebron dominates

1940
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:21,559
Speaker 3: the game offensively and impacts of defensively when it matters.

1941
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:24,400
Speaker 3: Watch eighty as again the best defensive player on the

1942
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 3: planet in a brilliant offensive player. The efficiency, the physical

1943
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:30,120
Speaker 3: imposition from both of them, like they do their job,

1944
01:34:30,200 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 3: they play at an extremely high level. The team around them

1945
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 3: just isn't what it needs to be. And also they've

1946
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:36,840
Speaker 3: played the Denver Nuggets the last two years in the

1947
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:39,439
Speaker 3: playoffs and that's a really tough draw.

1948
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 2: It's like anybody who watched that series and came away

1949
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:47,519
Speaker 2: thinking Lebron and Ad aren't good enough, I just don't

1950
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:49,400
Speaker 2: know how you could think. Like, if you watch that series,

1951
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 2: it was so abundantly clear what was happening. It was like,

1952
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:55,479
Speaker 2: Austin's there, dude. Austin's the one guy they know they

1953
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:58,080
Speaker 2: can count on. He's like a real player. And by

1954
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 2: the way that he's doing what he's doing offensively while

1955
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:04,080
Speaker 2: shouldering the lead point of attack defensive role, which is

1956
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 2: something he has no business fucker're doing and he's doing it,

1957
01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:08,960
Speaker 2: and like, if you watch it, it's like, oh, we

1958
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:11,880
Speaker 2: all have known d Loo is a bad playoff performer forever. Well,

1959
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:14,200
Speaker 2: guess what he bageled in the must Wing game back

1960
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:16,320
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles when they needed it right like that,

1961
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 2: that's to be expected. That's the d Angela Russell experience.

1962
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:21,800
Speaker 2: And then one of the biggest matchup swings of that

1963
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 2: series was Michael Porter Junior outplayed Ruy to such a

1964
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:30,759
Speaker 2: dramatic extent it was impossible to overcome. Like I actually

1965
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:34,400
Speaker 2: thought because Jamal Murray was so bad. I actually other

1966
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:36,639
Speaker 2: than the two shots I actually thought, Lebron and Ad

1967
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:39,960
Speaker 2: outplayed Yokitchen Murray. Now, I would say it was closer

1968
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,240
Speaker 2: to even just because those two Murray shots, Like, say

1969
01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:45,200
Speaker 2: what you want about Jamal, those two shots he hit

1970
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:48,720
Speaker 2: were just unbelievable shots. But Lebron and Ad did their

1971
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:51,519
Speaker 2: part to make that series a real series, and the

1972
01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:53,439
Speaker 2: other guys got their ass kick because guess what, the

1973
01:35:53,479 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 2: other guys are better. If you told me going into

1974
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:57,679
Speaker 2: that series, who do you like? Do you like KCP

1975
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:01,800
Speaker 2: Aaron Gordon and Michael Porter Junior or Austin Reeves, D'Angelo, Russell,

1976
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:04,639
Speaker 2: Ruycha Mura. Who you take it, Nuggets. I mean, it's

1977
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 2: not rocket it's not rockets here, it's it's not rocket science.

1978
01:36:07,400 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 2: But anyway, let's tie this thing off. So I had Uh,

1979
01:36:12,120 --> 01:36:14,639
Speaker 2: I had KD at nine. My reasoning for having Kad

1980
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:18,160
Speaker 2: over Steph is when Steph is actually playing like Steph.

1981
01:36:18,240 --> 01:36:21,479
Speaker 2: I'm a big believer in Steph's overall offensive impact, and

1982
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 2: I would have him over. It's just the theoretical element

1983
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:26,840
Speaker 2: element I was discussing. KD has been playing much better

1984
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 2: basketball as of late, and that to me just kind

1985
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:30,400
Speaker 2: of makes him a little bit of a safer bet

1986
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:33,479
Speaker 2: heading into this particular season. As I talked about I

1987
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:36,479
Speaker 2: had Steph at ten and Joel at eleven, Carson, I'm

1988
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:39,160
Speaker 2: assuming you had who did you have at ten? Step

1989
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:42,920
Speaker 2: That's right, Steph, And then you had at eleven Kevin

1990
01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:47,720
Speaker 2: Durant correct so, and then I want to come back

1991
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,040
Speaker 2: to Kevin rand at eleven really quick before we're done, Logan,

1992
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 2: who did you have a ten?

1993
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:55,559
Speaker 1: That has a lot to do with what Carson was saying,

1994
01:36:55,600 --> 01:37:00,600
Speaker 1: basically about shouldering load of the number one EMBIID is

1995
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 1: one of the most frustrating guys uh to watch. In

1996
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:06,439
Speaker 1: my opinion, the flopping is one part of it, but

1997
01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:09,400
Speaker 1: it's also like the stagnation of the offense is more

1998
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:12,599
Speaker 1: important to me. I just think that if Embiid committed

1999
01:37:12,640 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 1: more to doing little stuff like Jokic and again this

2000
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:19,880
Speaker 1: is a pipe dream, but like like little stuff like

2001
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:24,479
Speaker 1: dribble handoffs, like setting more screens, getting more guys involved.

2002
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:27,080
Speaker 4: So much of the Philadelphia offense devolves.

2003
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:28,799
Speaker 2: Into get in shape and run the floor.

2004
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great idea, you know.

2005
01:37:33,160 --> 01:37:35,720
Speaker 1: So much of it devolves into an embid face up

2006
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:37,640
Speaker 1: touch at the elbow and embid post up touch. And

2007
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:39,479
Speaker 1: these are efficient looks, don't get me wrong, right, and

2008
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:41,320
Speaker 1: Beat's one of the best scores in basketball.

2009
01:37:42,120 --> 01:37:45,519
Speaker 4: But the offense grinds to a standstill. There's no flow.

2010
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:48,200
Speaker 1: Other guys aren't getting involved, like there's That's one of

2011
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:50,799
Speaker 1: those frustrating things to me when I'm just playing basketball,

2012
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:52,600
Speaker 1: and obviously I'm not playing I'm playing at the you know,

2013
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:57,400
Speaker 1: my local gym. When nobody's moving. That's it's not aesthetically pleasing.

2014
01:37:57,439 --> 01:38:01,200
Speaker 1: It's not good basketball. It's not good And a lot

2015
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 1: of that happens with Embiid the regression in the playoffs,

2016
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:08,759
Speaker 1: like we've mentioned, but it ultimately does come down to injuries,

2017
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:11,280
Speaker 1: and Bid has been injured every single season of his career.

2018
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:15,080
Speaker 1: But I can't leave him with my injury concerns. With KD,

2019
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:18,880
Speaker 1: with Kawhi, with Jimmy. I think Embiid can shoulder a

2020
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:22,439
Speaker 1: number one load better than those guys, while I have

2021
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 1: injury concerns about all of them. And so I know

2022
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:29,120
Speaker 1: Embiid would frustrate me if I drafted him, but I

2023
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:33,000
Speaker 1: would be comfortable just crossing my fingers and hoping that

2024
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:36,120
Speaker 1: he can play sixty games for me and we can win,

2025
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, ninety percent of those games.

2026
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:43,439
Speaker 2: I think that that, like fun to play with element

2027
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:46,000
Speaker 2: is kind of under discussed. Carson, you mentioned this earlier

2028
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:48,120
Speaker 2: when we were talking about Luca and how like sometimes

2029
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:49,920
Speaker 2: it can be an ugly watch, and it's true, like

2030
01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 2: I wish, I wish it was possible for us to say, like, hey,

2031
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:56,320
Speaker 2: Luca is the second best player in the world, We're

2032
01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:58,639
Speaker 2: huge fans of Luca and what he does, and blah

2033
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:00,880
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, you know, so on and so forth,

2034
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:04,519
Speaker 2: but also be like it's ugly to watch sometimes. Yeah,

2035
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:07,800
Speaker 2: like the heliocentric go stand in the corner, will set

2036
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:10,920
Speaker 2: a high ball screen and then repeat, rinse, repeat, and

2037
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:16,240
Speaker 2: every single possession involves maybe three passes at tops, sometimes

2038
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:21,320
Speaker 2: even one or two. Like that. It is not necessarily

2039
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:25,880
Speaker 2: esthetically appealing. It is not necessarily the most fun basketball

2040
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:28,000
Speaker 2: to play. No, you know what I mean. I do

2041
01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:29,760
Speaker 2: think that that's worth bringing up. And I think that's

2042
01:39:29,760 --> 01:39:31,680
Speaker 2: part of the story with embeat as well. So our

2043
01:39:31,720 --> 01:39:35,320
Speaker 2: last bit before we get out of move on, Yeah,

2044
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:37,400
Speaker 2: go ahead, because sure, I do think.

2045
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:41,240
Speaker 3: He's really really interesting when we're talking about these conversations

2046
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:43,160
Speaker 3: and we have all these factors like starting a team

2047
01:39:43,160 --> 01:39:44,160
Speaker 3: from scratch, factoring and.

2048
01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:44,840
Speaker 2: Health, all that.

2049
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:46,600
Speaker 3: The one thing I do want to say as an

2050
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:48,559
Speaker 3: Umbead critic over the years, the reason that I do

2051
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:51,000
Speaker 3: have him higher than you guys, I mean, just to

2052
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:53,960
Speaker 3: put into perspective what we saw this year where I

2053
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:56,519
Speaker 3: think we can all agree like it was still a

2054
01:39:56,560 --> 01:39:59,920
Speaker 3: flawed embiad performance. He wasn't as consistent as we would want.

2055
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:03,520
Speaker 3: He wasn't good down the stretch of games. The playmaking

2056
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 3: was better, and that is one reason that I'm encouraged

2057
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:10,080
Speaker 3: with EMBID, but still, I mean, over four turnovers a game,

2058
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:13,479
Speaker 3: some really rough stretches in that respect, and he's hurt.

2059
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:16,360
Speaker 3: We look at all of that, and still he gives

2060
01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:19,360
Speaker 3: you thirty three ten and six on, fifty nine percent

2061
01:40:19,400 --> 01:40:22,760
Speaker 3: for shooting, and is plus fifty eight on off. His

2062
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:25,960
Speaker 3: team was fifty eight points per hunder possessions better with

2063
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:28,599
Speaker 3: him on the floor. Like I do think there is

2064
01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 3: just a level of ability with him that is so

2065
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:35,000
Speaker 3: absurd that even when we can talk about all his

2066
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:37,519
Speaker 3: flaws and his regression and all of those things are real,

2067
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 3: and there are people who try to pretend that they're not,

2068
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:42,320
Speaker 3: and those people are not telling the truth like he

2069
01:40:42,479 --> 01:40:45,920
Speaker 3: is not. He has never been the playoff performer that

2070
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:48,639
Speaker 3: he is regular season he hasn't really been that close.

2071
01:40:49,200 --> 01:40:52,320
Speaker 3: But this year was progress, and again like that production

2072
01:40:52,479 --> 01:40:55,400
Speaker 3: is overwhelming. There are very very few players who could

2073
01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:58,519
Speaker 3: approach that. And we still agree that he can play

2074
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:01,360
Speaker 3: much better, that there's area that he can clean up

2075
01:41:01,400 --> 01:41:03,519
Speaker 3: on that. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him

2076
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:05,880
Speaker 3: to be at least marginally better in and he was

2077
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 3: coming off a tornamentiscus. That's all I'm gonna say.

2078
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:11,879
Speaker 1: I mean, he gave you fifty points on basically seventy

2079
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:16,000
Speaker 1: percent health in a hellish environment in the playoffs. I mean, yeah,

2080
01:41:16,320 --> 01:41:18,559
Speaker 1: when he's out there, like he's one of the most

2081
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:19,759
Speaker 1: effective guys on the planet.

2082
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:23,439
Speaker 2: It's just the one other thing I'll throw in there.

2083
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:25,639
Speaker 2: And there's obviously context to this. And by the way,

2084
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:27,200
Speaker 2: I agree with you guys, as I said, em Beat

2085
01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:29,559
Speaker 2: is the one guy that has that like ass kicker potential,

2086
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:33,439
Speaker 2: like he could just go on a crazy run. But like, uh,

2087
01:41:33,760 --> 01:41:37,040
Speaker 2: I feel like any of those top dudes like Jokich, Luca,

2088
01:41:37,120 --> 01:41:38,800
Speaker 2: the guys that we want to compare and be to,

2089
01:41:39,080 --> 01:41:40,479
Speaker 2: they find a way to beat the Knicks. They find

2090
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:41,320
Speaker 2: a way to be Here's what.

2091
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:44,640
Speaker 3: I'm saying, they're injured. None of us haven't beat. With

2092
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:46,640
Speaker 3: those guys, I have n't beat at six, that's the

2093
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:48,880
Speaker 3: highest Logan has him ten you have him a leg Yeah,

2094
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:51,519
Speaker 3: I think we're having a different conversation, Like there are

2095
01:41:51,560 --> 01:41:55,080
Speaker 3: people having the conversation of him versus Luca, Jannis, jokicch

2096
01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:57,720
Speaker 3: who I think all clearly have done more in the postseason,

2097
01:41:57,920 --> 01:42:00,439
Speaker 3: don't have nearly the comparable red flags like they're all

2098
01:42:00,479 --> 01:42:02,439
Speaker 3: clear of him. My point is when it comes to

2099
01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:05,680
Speaker 3: him versus the seven through ten tier. That's where I

2100
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:08,439
Speaker 3: would just bank on his ability that puts him in

2101
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 3: the conversation with the top four for other people and

2102
01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 3: in the regular season.

2103
01:42:14,320 --> 01:42:15,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good case. I think all

2104
01:42:15,880 --> 01:42:17,320
Speaker 2: of you guys would makee good cases. And that's the

2105
01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:21,400
Speaker 2: point is, like all this stuff is so subjective. I

2106
01:42:21,400 --> 01:42:23,720
Speaker 2: think five through eleven is such a toss up on

2107
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:27,479
Speaker 2: this list, And like, what I really wanted to just

2108
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:29,360
Speaker 2: hear is your guys' basketball cases for it. You've done

2109
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:31,760
Speaker 2: a really nice job. We're gonna do one last quick

2110
01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:33,559
Speaker 2: round robin here and then we're gonna get out of here.

2111
01:42:34,760 --> 01:42:37,200
Speaker 2: Stay about a minute each. We'll start with you, Carson.

2112
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:39,519
Speaker 2: Why do you have Katie at eleven? You both have

2113
01:42:39,600 --> 01:42:40,920
Speaker 2: Katie at eleven, so give you a reason.

2114
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:43,360
Speaker 3: So I touched on it a little earlier in direct

2115
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:46,200
Speaker 3: comparison to Steph. I do think that Steph is just

2116
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:49,679
Speaker 3: a more transformative offensive engine because of the playmaking, because

2117
01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:52,240
Speaker 3: of the constant off ball stress and the shooting. Katie

2118
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:54,840
Speaker 3: is a really good offensive player. I do think we've

2119
01:42:54,880 --> 01:42:58,120
Speaker 3: seen him just a bit over the last couple of postseasons,

2120
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:01,400
Speaker 3: impacted by the lack of pressure. I thought that twenty

2121
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:04,240
Speaker 3: twenty three was an up and down playoff run from

2122
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:07,160
Speaker 3: him this past year. I get it, the scoring efficiency

2123
01:43:07,200 --> 01:43:11,160
Speaker 3: looks really good. I thought that he was really guarded

2124
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:13,760
Speaker 3: pretty effectively. I mean, he just had some incredible over

2125
01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:15,920
Speaker 3: the top shot making the light you can't take away.

2126
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:18,680
Speaker 3: But I mean Gobert was switching on to him really effectively.

2127
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:21,800
Speaker 3: He wasn't creating for others and he is in a

2128
01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:25,120
Speaker 3: much much better offensive situation than Steph and I don't

2129
01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:27,400
Speaker 3: think his two way impact is enough to offset that,

2130
01:43:27,479 --> 01:43:30,640
Speaker 3: even though I do think that he's an above average defenders,

2131
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:34,080
Speaker 3: So it's just the playmaking impact not being quite comparable.

2132
01:43:34,240 --> 01:43:37,320
Speaker 3: And he's obviously still an amazing scorer. But when people

2133
01:43:37,320 --> 01:43:38,960
Speaker 3: want to say he's the best score on the planet,

2134
01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 3: I can't quite agree with that because he's not the

2135
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:44,120
Speaker 3: same athlete that he was even a few years ago.

2136
01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:45,760
Speaker 3: And I think we have seen that. I mean, I

2137
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:48,439
Speaker 3: think to the Nugget series, right, Aaron Gordon guarded him

2138
01:43:48,479 --> 01:43:50,960
Speaker 3: really well. Of course, the Celtics series in Brooklyn was

2139
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:54,479
Speaker 3: his low point. I think he's clearly bounced back. He's

2140
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 3: played much better since then. But like those really big

2141
01:43:57,080 --> 01:43:59,120
Speaker 3: athletic wings who can stay in front of him, be

2142
01:43:59,160 --> 01:44:02,160
Speaker 3: physical with him, just give him more trouble than anybody

2143
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:03,160
Speaker 3: could for prime KD.

2144
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:06,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't have a ton to add on that.

2145
01:44:06,280 --> 01:44:07,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think he has a two way

2146
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:11,320
Speaker 1: advantage over Steph. He's improved as a playmaker as he's

2147
01:44:11,320 --> 01:44:13,519
Speaker 1: gotten older, He's still not an elite playmaker, and that

2148
01:44:13,640 --> 01:44:16,760
Speaker 1: lack of rim pressure and well also athleticism really does

2149
01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:19,840
Speaker 1: matter to me With KD. He's really really good, but

2150
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:22,600
Speaker 1: when I also have injury concerns when with him and

2151
01:44:22,600 --> 01:44:24,200
Speaker 1: some other guys that are off my list, I just

2152
01:44:24,280 --> 01:44:28,080
Speaker 1: think Embiid has the higher ceiling to propel me through

2153
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:30,519
Speaker 1: if I needed a top dog, so to speak.

2154
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:31,599
Speaker 4: But again, not to.

2155
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:34,320
Speaker 1: Beat a dead horse here, Helmt, I'd hear an argument

2156
01:44:34,360 --> 01:44:36,880
Speaker 1: if somebody wanted to argue KD up at five. I mean,

2157
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:40,679
Speaker 1: the margins are so so slim outside of the top four.

2158
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:43,240
Speaker 3: Health is also a very good point though, Logan, because

2159
01:44:43,240 --> 01:44:46,080
Speaker 3: this is the only year that he's been healthy since

2160
01:44:46,120 --> 01:44:48,400
Speaker 3: he tore his achilles, like with any sort of consistency.

2161
01:44:48,479 --> 01:44:52,519
Speaker 2: One thing I'll give him some grace there is the

2162
01:44:53,360 --> 01:44:56,479
Speaker 2: injuries that he suffered have been so fluky, like there

2163
01:44:56,479 --> 01:44:59,639
Speaker 2: were two separate instances where someone fell into his knee,

2164
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:02,519
Speaker 2: and then there was that bizarre one where he sprained

2165
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:06,439
Speaker 2: his ankle and warm ups, remember, like his foot slipped

2166
01:45:06,520 --> 01:45:09,400
Speaker 2: or whatever. It's not like he's like having wear and

2167
01:45:09,439 --> 01:45:12,160
Speaker 2: tear injuries that have been issues. Like it's been kind

2168
01:45:12,160 --> 01:45:14,439
Speaker 2: of like like it's been a little bit fluky, and

2169
01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:17,760
Speaker 2: then last year he avoided those like flukey injuries and

2170
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:20,360
Speaker 2: suddenly he plays seventy when he plays seventy five games

2171
01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:23,080
Speaker 2: or something like that. The one thing that's been weird

2172
01:45:23,120 --> 01:45:25,160
Speaker 2: with KD for me is like he's always been kind

2173
01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:26,519
Speaker 2: of known as one of the best one on one

2174
01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:28,360
Speaker 2: players in the league, and I still think he is.

2175
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:32,280
Speaker 2: I thought that the Stephan Lebron both deferring to him

2176
01:45:32,280 --> 01:45:34,680
Speaker 2: in that big possession against Serbia just as like, and

2177
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:37,000
Speaker 2: then him just hitting that nasty left or right crossover

2178
01:45:37,040 --> 01:45:38,920
Speaker 2: into the jumper. Like he still can't do much better,

2179
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:42,080
Speaker 2: but in the large sample, he did not have a

2180
01:45:42,080 --> 01:45:45,519
Speaker 2: good one on one season last year. When he was

2181
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:48,519
Speaker 2: coming off of screens, he was so deadly, And a

2182
01:45:48,520 --> 01:45:51,400
Speaker 2: big part of that is because such a gifted passer

2183
01:45:51,479 --> 01:45:53,920
Speaker 2: can see over the top in a way that a

2184
01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:57,040
Speaker 2: lot of playmakers can't, Like what that's been one of

2185
01:45:57,040 --> 01:45:59,479
Speaker 2: the coolest things to see develop about Kd's game since

2186
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:03,080
Speaker 2: his achilles ruptured has been like pretty much starting in Brooklyn,

2187
01:46:03,160 --> 01:46:05,439
Speaker 2: like him identifying like, Oh, all I have to do

2188
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:07,280
Speaker 2: is call for a ball screen, They're probably gonna show

2189
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:08,960
Speaker 2: high and I'm gonna get a four on three on

2190
01:46:09,040 --> 01:46:11,640
Speaker 2: most of these possessions. And he's consistently been one of

2191
01:46:11,640 --> 01:46:13,240
Speaker 2: the best pick and role players in the league as

2192
01:46:13,280 --> 01:46:15,599
Speaker 2: a result of that kind of development in his game.

2193
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:18,880
Speaker 2: But ironically, like his post up and ISO game has

2194
01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:21,200
Speaker 2: been on the decline in large part because he's just

2195
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:24,040
Speaker 2: like you said, Carson, Like he teams can put a

2196
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:26,719
Speaker 2: really big forward on him now and at least force

2197
01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:29,720
Speaker 2: him to take contested jump shots. Does not get to

2198
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:32,360
Speaker 2: the rim at this point in his career at all whatsoever,

2199
01:46:32,439 --> 01:46:35,719
Speaker 2: really so, But at the same time, he's really picky,

2200
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:37,960
Speaker 2: so he's very efficient when he does get there, it's

2201
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:39,840
Speaker 2: just as rare for him to go, So all that

2202
01:46:39,840 --> 01:46:43,040
Speaker 2: stuff is legitimate. The reason why I had him over

2203
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:45,800
Speaker 2: Embiid is like, I still think he's a pretty damn

2204
01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 2: safe foundational piece for a franchise in the sense that,

2205
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:53,240
Speaker 2: like he's super easy to plug and play into any

2206
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:56,080
Speaker 2: offensive system. He can use him in a bunch of

2207
01:46:56,080 --> 01:46:59,000
Speaker 2: different ways defensively, Like he's an excellent switch defender, he's

2208
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:02,360
Speaker 2: an excellent lowman, he's an excellent defensive rebounder. Like he's

2209
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:04,200
Speaker 2: got all of these different traits that he brings to

2210
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:07,280
Speaker 2: the table there. So like, if I'm building a basketball

2211
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:10,519
Speaker 2: team from scratch, I still can't do a whole lot

2212
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:13,120
Speaker 2: better than Kevin Durant. But I but I had him

2213
01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:16,080
Speaker 2: at I had him at ten, or excuse me at nine,

2214
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:20,679
Speaker 2: with Steph at ten, and then Embiid at number eleven.

2215
01:47:20,720 --> 01:47:23,160
Speaker 2: But I appreciate you guys taking the time to come

2216
01:47:23,240 --> 01:47:25,920
Speaker 2: humor me with this, with this format. I know, it's

2217
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 2: like it's so funny, these player rankings lists. There's no

2218
01:47:28,120 --> 01:47:31,640
Speaker 2: way to do them without causing loopholes and everything is

2219
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:35,200
Speaker 2: kind of unrealistic. Like I talk about this all the

2220
01:47:35,240 --> 01:47:38,120
Speaker 2: time on the show, like, oh, in a vacuum, Like

2221
01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:40,760
Speaker 2: game starts tomorrow, that's great. That's never how you win

2222
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:42,720
Speaker 2: the trophy though, Like that's not like you don't get

2223
01:47:42,720 --> 01:47:44,280
Speaker 2: to you don't get to play one game tomorrow win

2224
01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:46,840
Speaker 2: the trophy. Okay, playoff series that starts tomorrow, Well that's

2225
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:49,439
Speaker 2: not how you do it either. Playoff run that starts tomorrow, Well,

2226
01:47:49,439 --> 01:47:51,960
Speaker 2: that's not how you do it either. Like you the

2227
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:54,240
Speaker 2: way you get the Larry O. B starts in October

2228
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:57,000
Speaker 2: and it and it's a grind and and you've got

2229
01:47:57,000 --> 01:47:58,960
Speaker 2: to be playing the best basketball at the right time.

2230
01:47:59,360 --> 01:48:01,760
Speaker 2: You've got to there's a leadership element keeping your team

2231
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:04,519
Speaker 2: engaged throughout the regular season. And like, there's so many

2232
01:48:04,560 --> 01:48:07,160
Speaker 2: different elements to it, and it's complicated, and I tried

2233
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:09,840
Speaker 2: to kind of set that up as the criteria this year,

2234
01:48:09,880 --> 01:48:12,720
Speaker 2: and you guys brought a lot of solid points and

2235
01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:15,040
Speaker 2: arguments really quickly. Before we get out of here, why

2236
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:16,400
Speaker 2: don't you guys tell us what you're working on over

2237
01:48:16,400 --> 01:48:16,960
Speaker 2: at nerd Set.

2238
01:48:16,960 --> 01:48:18,400
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, thank you for having us. This

2239
01:48:18,520 --> 01:48:21,240
Speaker 3: was a ton of fun and it's excellent to scratch

2240
01:48:21,320 --> 01:48:24,240
Speaker 3: the basketball. It's because we have been a little NFL

2241
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:26,639
Speaker 3: focused as of late, because we cover that as well.

2242
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:28,680
Speaker 3: So if you guys want to see all of our

2243
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:30,800
Speaker 3: NBA stuff, all of our NFL stuff, We do a

2244
01:48:30,800 --> 01:48:33,519
Speaker 3: bunch of trivia as well. We did trivia with Jason

2245
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:35,559
Speaker 3: just the other week and Yovan Buja we did some

2246
01:48:35,640 --> 01:48:39,479
Speaker 3: Lakers trivia, so that's all on our YouTube channel. Just

2247
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:41,439
Speaker 3: look up nerd Session. We've got all that, and we've

2248
01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:45,760
Speaker 3: also got some historical NBA content, some video essays that

2249
01:48:46,240 --> 01:48:48,439
Speaker 3: we put out with film as well on YouTube.

2250
01:48:50,040 --> 01:48:53,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've been doing amazing work on the film side

2251
01:48:53,360 --> 01:48:55,880
Speaker 2: of things too, and I think there's a I think

2252
01:48:55,920 --> 01:48:59,200
Speaker 2: there's a a kind of an area of opportunity for

2253
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:02,120
Speaker 2: that on YouTube, truly educational video content, and you guys

2254
01:49:02,160 --> 01:49:03,880
Speaker 2: do a really nice job with that. Make sure you

2255
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:06,280
Speaker 2: guys head over to nerd Sash check it out. Schedule

2256
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:08,480
Speaker 2: for the rest of this week really quickly. On Wednesday,

2257
01:49:08,600 --> 01:49:11,800
Speaker 2: we'll be going doing the Bragging Rights list. So I'm

2258
01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:13,320
Speaker 2: just gonna hit like the top like four or five

2259
01:49:13,360 --> 01:49:16,240
Speaker 2: guys in the league truly based on what they accomplished

2260
01:49:16,280 --> 01:49:20,120
Speaker 2: last year. Kind of just an opportunity to pay some

2261
01:49:20,160 --> 01:49:23,519
Speaker 2: respects to those guys for what they accomplished. Then we

2262
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:26,160
Speaker 2: have something on a Friday, I believe surrounding the GM survey.

2263
01:49:26,200 --> 01:49:29,320
Speaker 2: And then starting next week we are getting into season previews.

2264
01:49:29,320 --> 01:49:32,479
Speaker 2: We're gonna start breaking down teams little by little. We'll

2265
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:34,639
Speaker 2: do that power ranking style like we did last year.

2266
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:37,679
Speaker 2: As always, we appreciate you guys for supporting the show.

2267
01:49:37,720 --> 01:49:39,439
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming to hang out, don't forget to support

2268
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:41,439
Speaker 2: the Nerd Sash guys, and we'll see you guys on

2269
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:47,559
Speaker 2: Wednesday the volume What's Up guys. As always, I appreciate

2270
01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:50,400
Speaker 2: you for listening to and supporting OOPS tonight. It would

2271
01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:52,519
Speaker 2: actually be really helpful for us if you guys would

2272
01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:55,400
Speaker 2: take a second and leave a rating and a review.

2273
01:49:55,400 --> 01:49:57,240
Speaker 2: As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us, but if

2274
01:49:57,280 --> 01:49:59,280
Speaker 2: you could take a minute to do that, I'd really

2275
01:49:59,320 --> 01:50:00,000
Speaker 2: appreciate it.