WEBVTT - Part Two: Joan of Arc Was Even Cooler Than I Thought 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.680 Cool Zone Media. 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:07.000 Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. You're 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:11.360 a weekly reminder that sometimes you can listen to visions 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.080 in your head, put on armor, and change the world. 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.880 I'm your host, Martha Kiljoy, and my guest today is 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.919 Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, also on Cool 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.080 Zone Media, comes out every Thursday. How are you. 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.280 I'm doing great. I can't wait to find out how 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.720 these visions work out. I know, and I think, you know, 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.159 I think it will be much harder to do that today. 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.480 People really frown on it. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.280 It's true. I almost and then there was like, oh no, 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.680 there's enough with Joan of Arc. Eventually I might do 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.240 this whole episode about there's a bunch of these women 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.199 mystics at this time, who like, in order to have 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.720 any kind of influence over their own lives, are like, 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.640 I'm a mystic, I've been sent by God, and they 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.760 I think they believe it right, But like there's all 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.400 of these ways that people learn to I don't know, 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.560 take charge of their own life. Like she's a commoner 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.840 from encircled town in a civil war. Like she's not 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.000 set up for history books. 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:11.880 You know, nobody's gonna listen to Joan, but they might 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:12.440 listen to. 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:17.440 God exactly much like we listen to our producer Sophie Hi. 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:22.360 Sophie Hi, and we all say hi to Rory are 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.480 audio engineer, Hi, Rory Hi, Rory Hi Ri. And our 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.840 theme music was written for Spyon Woman. And this is 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:30.840 part two of a two parter about John of Arc. 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.600 You probably figured that out from the title. Otherwise, Hello, 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.400 and welcome to the very first episode of Cool People 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.520 Did Cool stuff You've ever listened to? And good luck. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.120 This is a solid jumping end point if you don't 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:42.080 care about context. 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:47.360 Yeah, I'm trying so hard. I've been like trying to 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.760 watch movies out of order, the kind of movies that 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.520 people watch out of order, right, like Marvel movies or whatever. 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.040 Oh you mean, like the movies out of sequence like 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.280 in the Sea. I think you meant like like starting 0:01:58.280 --> 0:01:59.279 in the middle of the movie. 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.520 Oh no, no, no, no, but like like movies, like like 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.640 a normal person can sit down and watch Aliens without 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.480 watching Alien right, No, I gotta surf in the beginning. Yeah, 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.040 I absolutely do too, And I'm trying to break myself 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.960 of it, but it keeps not working. I keep being like, oh, 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:15.800 I'm gonna do this, and then I'm like, Nope, I 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:16.480 gotta go back. 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.560 No, I need the context, I need the chronology. When 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.880 I started writing a story, I start with a little timeline. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:23.480 I'm like, okay, well, when the guy was born, it's 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.240 probably the beginning of the time. Like, no, it's not 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.200 I need to go I need to go back. 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.360 Oh, I'm gonna love your podcast, yep, and uh okay. So, 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.160 speaking of movies, there's this movie from the nineties I 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.200 really like. It's called The Anchoris either. Have you ever 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:39.080 seen The Anchoris? 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.480 No? But I know it doesn't end well for an anchorus. 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.040 It depends on their what they want. But you know, 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:49.480 so you've heard of anchorites. That was gonna be my 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:50.280 follow up question. 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.320 There's the they're usually like nuns or friars, right, like 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.320 holy people. People have a holy order, a religious order, 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:01.200 who are walled into their cell and they just live 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.200 out their days in prayer. Yep, in their tiny little 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:04.760 prayer jail. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.400 Yeah. But it's like voluntary, right. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.840 Right, It is a calling that this is a very 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.880 pious act, that you are removing yourself from the world. 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:16.800 Yeah, And so that's why I'm like, I don't want 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:18.239 to say it doesn't end well for them, because it's 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:20.000 like they did what they wanted. 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.320 They do die in there though, Yeah. 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.480 But you know what happens to us, not in a self. 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.600 I'm just wondering how the poop gets out. 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:31.880 I think there's a bucket. There's like a slot where 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:33.280 a food goes in and out and stuff, and like 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.160 people come up and talk to you and things. You know. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.400 Oh, you can receive visitors. That's good. 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.800 Yeah, Well, if you want watch a movie about it, 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.200 there's a movie called The Anchors. Anchorites were holy people 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.680 medieval Europe who would have themselves bricked into rooms and 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.960 churches in order to read and write and pray without 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.720 World Aid distractions. The first English language book written by 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.040 a woman that we know about is called Revelations of 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.360 Divine Love and it was written by an Anchorite named 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.600 Julian of No Which and I am not yet enough 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.560 of a weird theology nerd to have any fucking clue 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.320 what that book is about. I've tried. I do not 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.720 know what it is about. But in the nineties movie, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.800 the plot is that there's this woman and she really 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.880 doesn't want to get married, so she becomes an anchorite 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:19.640 one of. 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.560 The best ways to not have to get a husband. 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.160 And so this is kind of one of the core 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.320 of my argument this week. Women denied power other power 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.360 in Patriarchal's medieval society exerted some power over their life 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:35.320 through magic, whether they're the magical underground of poisoners, or 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:39.640 whether through like anchortes or mystics with visions like our 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.279 young Jeanette, and I don't think this makes their belief 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:48.480 in magic less sincere. The obsession with virginity and Christianity 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.120 is like buy and Lord really bad, right. This has 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:55.880 not done us a lot of favors. But God told 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.520 me I can't fuck is a pretty good way to 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.800 exert some control over your marital state. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.040 That's a get out a fuck free car baby. 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:10.720 Yep. Absolutely so. When Jeanette was thirteen, which is the 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.839 legal age of marriage for girls at the time, I say, 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.480 as if it's supposed to be like shocking, but that's 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.000 like roughly what Red State people want at this point anyway. 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:20.599 So it's legal in Tennessee, isn't it. 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.440 Yeah? I think so. Probably her parents start setting her 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.960 up for marriage, but she started having visions and as 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.400 soon as she started having visions, she promised the angels 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.240 that were visiting her that she would keep her virginity 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:39.120 for quote, as long as it should please God, like 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:41.280 until they told her otherwise. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.159 I mean, it's good to keep your options open. Like 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.680 the angel could come back, the message could change. 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.400 I know, you meet the right guyer girl like you know. 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.919 And you can't break a promise to an angel. 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:53.679 No, be a really bad idea. 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:54.960 You're not supposed to do that. 0:05:55.600 --> 0:06:00.560 Yeah, so the wedding's off. She has been saved by 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.799 the ominous voice at the corner of her vision, accompanied 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:08.520 by a brightness. She described it. Soon Saint Michael, the archangel, 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.839 told her that she would lead an army and aid 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:15.160 of the true King of France. It is uncertain. I 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.839 am uncertain as to whether or not she would have 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.320 already have heard this rumor this like, Hey, you know, 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.120 a virgin's gonna come and lead the armies of France 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:24.520 or whatever. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.479 Don't know, right, Like, people are obviously hearing about it 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.440 because some of these other mystics are showing up to 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.320 audition for it. But like when is sort of far 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.400 flung village where people can't read, Like, are they receiving 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:37.080 these rumors. 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:39.360 The rumors are absolutely getting there. I just don't know 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:42.880 the chronology here. She absolutely knows these rumors before she 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:44.200 goes right. 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.160 Right, but are but are the influencing the early days 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:49.640 of the visions? I guess we don't know. 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.760 Right exactly, That's what I don't. I don't know. Someone 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.839 might know soon. Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret, which is 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.920 a perfectly good name for a saint. We're soon talking 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:01.360 to her about all of this as well. 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:06.360 In the visions. Yeah, in visions, Okay, she's not receiving visitors. 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:11.120 No. By the time she was sixteen, England was preparing 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.760 a further assault into what was left of France, and 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.360 the visions became more insistent. They're like, hey, what are 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.360 you doing. You gotta get on this, like you're gonna 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:23.200 lead an army. We gotta guess. So done. They told 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.720 her to go to France, and they told her to 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.200 go to this specific captain named Robert with a whole 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.440 long French last name, at a nearby fort who would 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.360 help her get to the default. So she talked to 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.360 her uncle, well like cousin, one of her parents cousins 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.080 about taking her to this forts and like next town 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.320 over or something. She finds Robert and the voices tell 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.640 her which guy is her guy? Right, She's like, oh no, 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.440 that's Robert, which is a trick she pulls later too. 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.040 It's like one of her. She does a couple things 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.040 that are like like most like miracles of saints are 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.680 kind of like magic tricky, right, and this is an 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.160 example of one of them. She's like, oh no, that's Robert, 0:07:59.200 --> 0:07:59.640 that's my guy. 0:07:59.920 --> 0:08:01.040 She is she cold reading? 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.520 Yeah, she's either very good at cold reading or getting 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.840 visions that help her be very good at cold reading whatever. 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:07.080 You know. 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:09.760 Again, that isn't that how magic works? 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.120 Yeah. She walks up and she's like, Hi, God told 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:14.720 me you should take me to the king, who will 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:16.320 give me command of all of his troops and I 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.040 will lead them to victory and he will be crowned 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.280 King of France. And she's like a little girl, she's 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.760 sixteen yem yeah, And Robert's like, go home, kid, and 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.360 then cuffs her, which I think means slaps her across 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.640 the face. So she goes home. Soon she doesn't have 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.319 a home because the war. Her family is evacuated to 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.840 a nearby walled city. The war continues to go badly. 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.760 The city of Orleans was under siege by the winter 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.000 of fourteen twenty eight to fourteen twenty nine, and English 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.000 propaganda is that the Deafont is actually a bastard and 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.319 that is a bo it had him by someone else. 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.200 And by now the defallt is starting to be like, 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.600 oh shit, maybe that's true. Maybe that's why I'm losing 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.480 every battle, because if I was really king, I would 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.199 just win, right, Like. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:03.520 That's why I don't have God's favor. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.800 Yeah, yeah, And so he's thinking about going into exile. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.959 He's I mean, he's a fucking coward, right like that. 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.560 This just comes up again and again he's like, oh, 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.360 I should run away, and Yolanda is like furious that 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.000 he's a piece of shit coward. He's married her daughter, 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.680 and Jeanette our young Joan of Arc is having visions 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:24.760 two to three times a week telling her to get 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.559 the fuck to France and lift the siege of Orleon. 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:29.760 And one of the things that comes up is that 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:31.520 there's like a bunch of times where she kind of 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:36.439 like knows some stuff about battles that she's cold reading, 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.400 but there's no way she would know right, because the 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.640 news couldn't have reached by the time that she was 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:47.600 saying certain things to somebody will have to walk there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.080 So she goes back to Robert. She goes back to 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.679 that town, hangs out for a couple of weeks and 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.240 like builds up friends in the town, and then goes 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.160 to Robert and begs her case and he refuses her again. 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:00.760 But at this point p pople in the town are 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.280 starting to believe her and one of two things, and 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.880 I actually think both things happen at the same time. First, 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:12.480 public opinion in the town is overwhelmingly like, come on, Robert, 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.720 bring the virgin mystic to the king so that she 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:19.160 can save France. Isn't that your fucking job here? Second, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.800 Robert's lord and friend is Yolanda's son, and Yolanda had 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.480 been sending messengers out being like find us the prophesied maid, please, 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.840 we need our prophesies made hello. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.000 So it's not a surprise to him that the fulfillment 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.200 of the prophecy could show up, right. 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:39.520 I just picture them like, hello, are you even trying? 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:45.800 Robert? So Robert on January twenty ninth, fourteen twenty nine, 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.760 decides to test Joan. Johan is going to get tested 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:49.640 so many times. 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:51.440 Oh God doesn't like you when you do that. 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:53.520 Oh really, Okay. 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.520 We're not supposed to doubt the prophecy when it is 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.760 told to you, like there's this is not in the 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:00.840 actual Bible, it's in more of the acker full stories. 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:01.319 Okay. 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.320 But when Mary goes to the midwife and says, you know, 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.520 like I'm about to do virgin birth up in here, right, 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.040 and the midwife is like, yeah, that's bullshit, and so 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.559 she you know, performs in an examination as a midwife 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:15.640 would do on a pregnant woman. And so when she 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.160 reaches her hand in there to check to say, like, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.520 you're not a virgin, I can tell her hand blackens 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.200 and withers away because she doubted. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:24.880 Oh shit, yeah. 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:26.480 They shouldn't let that one in. That's a good one. 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:31.320 Yeah, well that's just going to happen to Joan. But 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.080 that's not the first test. Because people treat religion kind 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.760 of like a science at this point. Right, They're like, look, 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.040 we know a lot of people are faking it. We 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.440 need to figure out who's faking it who's not, you know, 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.320 And they've got some ideas about how that's done. There's 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.600 actually this whole thing about how for a little while, 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.880 the Catholics weren't into burning witches and all the Protestants 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.400 were because Catholics didn't believe in witchcraft. That was just 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:54.679 superstitious nonsense. 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:56.719 I mean, it's right in the Bible that if you 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.600 believe in the power of Christ, like witchcraft can't get you. Yeah, okay, 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:05.000 like you're safe, it's fine. And so a priest shows 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.000 up to make sure that she's not possessed. Like the 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:08.440 whole thing that they're trying to do is make sure 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:12.440 that these are not demonic but angelic you know visions. Yeah, 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:13.840 you definitely got to check that first. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.040 Yeah, And so of course they run a very you know, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.719 classic test, which is a priest shows up and she 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:22.640 kneels in front of the priest and doesn't like bursts 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.400 into flames. So clearly not demonic a plus. And so 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.760 she's off and the whole village comes together to help 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.320 her get ready for her journey, and there's all these 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.280 arguments about why she wears men's clothes, and there's all 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.000 these people trying to be like, nah, it's because of this, now, 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:38.760 it's because of that, you know, whether or not she 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.040 had agency and her decision around men's clothes, right, I 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.880 distrust most of the way that most historians talk about 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.600 the choice of crossing gender lines in old timey world. 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.200 But they ask her what clothes she wants, and she 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.080 says she wants men's clothes for the journey, after all, 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.640 men's clothes are more practical, and she sleeping in the 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.280 company of men, and she had to keep up appearances 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.800 as a virgin, so she can't be seen as like, 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.040 she can't be like Red as a slut. 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.400 She can't look enticing, right. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:14.319 Yeah, And that seems to be an overall agreement. It's like, well, 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.120 she wore a dress, she would have gotten raped, but 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.480 so she wore pants and then she wasn't raped. Is 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.320 like not just the subtext, but the regular text of 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:25.199 a lot of her next chunk of her life. It's 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.200 not that she disguised herself as a man. Everyone knew 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.040 who she was, but she's taking on man as a 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:35.200 gender role and not trying to pass this was and 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.040 wasn't socially acceptable. And that's this part is necessarily interesting 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:39.600 to me. It's really messy. 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:44.360 It's because it's more like iconography than gender performance, right, 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.439 Like she is going to battle, and that is I 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.600 don't know, that is a certain kind of performance. But 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.920 she's not pretending to be a man. 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:54.440 Well okay, so she's not pretending to be a man, 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.559 but she is. She's not yet in armor or anything, right, 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.560 she's just in traveling clothes. So she's dressing as a 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.640 boy pretty much. And she cuts her hair into a 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.560 bowl cut, which I'm officially neutral on, and they give 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.320 her a sword, which I'm officially positive about. Everyone should 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.560 have a sword. This podcast is brought to you by 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.880 a big sword or small sword. This isn't even an 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:17.960 ad transition. I just want everyone to have a sword. 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:20.880 You'll know I'm a millionaire when I start a charity 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.720 of swords for trans people. Anyway. Yeah, no, the iconography thing, 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:27.720 it's like it's it's true, right, It's like it is 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:32.680 more of a social role, you know. And later she's 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.240 gonna get burned at the stake for wearing men's clothes, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.080 but all the people in the village are like, well, yeah, 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:38.600 you can be like riding a horse and shit, so 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.120 of course you're gonna fucking dress in men's clothes, you know, 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.040 because it like is and isn't socially acceptable. At the 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.160 same time, there's not a like monolithic view of gender 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.720 ever any time in history, it's my argument. 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.840 And I imagine we know less too about how poor 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.640 people were living and how they were performing gender. Like obviously, 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.560 in court we know a lot about the way people 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.400 performed roles in the way they dressed, and what fashion 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.280 was and what the culture was. But I don't know 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.320 that we know what people were doing in the village. 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.640 We know a lot less, and often sometimes when we 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.120 do know, it's through things like her court transcripts. You know, 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.000 so they had to cross enemy territory in order to 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:20.240 do this, right, because she's like kind of in a 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:22.720 little island, and for eleven days because they had to 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.520 walk everywhere in order to reach the court of the Daufont. 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:28.080 And when she gets there and so this is like 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.800 already kind of miraculous that she makes it there, frankly, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.920 and the court is divided about how to handle her, 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.360 and it's just divided in general. You have Yolanda and 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.080 her faction and they're trying to sway the Daufall one way, 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.200 and then you have this other faction that's like, no, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:49.160 you're right be a coward and fuck all these women, 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.640 they're meaningless. Why would you talk to them? You know? 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.640 The invitation of Joan of Arc to court was basically 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.480 a power play by Yolanda, but the defont granted her 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.160 an audience in the end, and as another test, he 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.400 like didn't hang out on his throne, but was in 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.840 the crowd and she had to pick him out and 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.800 she does, and there's like people argue about how she 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.120 did this, you know, could have been divine revelation. I 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.600 bet that wasn't that hard. No, yeah, I had a 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:16.280 really big nose. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.880 But also the behaviors in court are so ingrained in 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.440 these people that even if everyone's pretending he's not the king, 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.720 there's there's body language. Yeah you know which guy is 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:27.120 the king? 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.760 Yeah. So she finds the king and it's like holy shit. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.040 And then she supposedly whispered to him a secret that 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.600 only he and God would have known about. Oh and 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.680 historians speculate on what the secret was. The most likely 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.080 thing is that she was like, I know, you're the 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:46.720 true son of your father and the true heir of 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.000 the throne or whatever, like something he wanted to hear, 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:49.560 you know. 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:51.880 Right, like a total big secret that you couldn't just 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:52.320 make up. 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:56.320 Yeah, it also could have been something fantastical, miraculous, but 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:58.560 she's good at reading people. This is a big part 0:16:58.560 --> 0:16:58.800 of it. 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.600 No, they love to reveal the revelations after the secret 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.960 has been proven true, so you could reverse engineer, like 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.920 the Yeah, the third revelation of the of the apparition 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.000 of Our Lady of Fatima was revealed. This is stupid. 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.480 Our Lady of Fatima was a Marian apparition that appeared 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.720 to these children. It was supposedly gave the children three revelations, 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.640 and the first two revelations were revealed, and the third 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.800 one was a secret. It's okay. Drove a lot of 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.840 people insane. It caused a lot of problems. And then 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.080 after the attempted assassination of the pope in the eighties, 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.600 they were like, oh yeah, wow, she predicted that. 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.480 Yeah, totally, Like that's cheating, that's cheating. Yeah, you can't, 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:40.520 you can't backwards it. But this works on the king. 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.760 The King is sold, he turns like one eighty. He's 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:46.440 like down in the dumps. He's like, I'm going to 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.760 die in exile and I'm not the real king and 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.760 I'm a bastard and all I got to do is 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.720 live in a fancy, rich court and be in charge 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.400 for a long time. This sucks. 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.560 He just needed someone to believe in him. 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.399 And here is a virgin sent by God and the 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.280 king turns the fuck around. He goes from despair and 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.040 pondering exile to being like, hell, yeah, I got an army. 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:11.280 Let's fucking go down to visit these advertisers. Just see 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.320 what they have on sale, take advantage of all of 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:19.159 the sweet sweet deals available through advertising from these ads. 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.240 Hopefully it's a horse so we don't have to walk 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:22.080 to the next battle. 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:33.920 Yeah, and her back, and now it's time for more 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.200 trials of Joan of Arc. The next one they put 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.639 her through is they take her to field and they 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:41.959 give her a lance and a horse and are like, hey, 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:43.600 you any good with this? And she was like, yeah, 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:45.720 I'm pretty good at it, and they were like sick great. 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.280 Which is actually kind of interesting because she didn't grow 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.879 up knowing how to ride a horse. She had about 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.320 two or three weeks in that town to learn, like 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:59.680 everything she was learning, like, she's genuinely fucking special. 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.960 You know, I believe you could figure out how to 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.240 ride a horse. It's not like really that complicated, but 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.800 using a lance, that's I imagine that's a more specialized 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.320 skill that you can't just pick up by looking at it. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:17.119 Yeah, like I have, I have complicated feelings about the 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:22.919 nature of divinity, but like she's genuinely something special, you know. 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.960 I mean, or she was incredibly middle she like barely 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:28.600 did it. I mean I don't think she like showed 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:30.440