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Speaker 1: It is a real pleasure to be joined by somebody

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Speaker 1: I've known for a long time that I have a

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Speaker 1: great deal of admiration for. We live in an era

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Speaker 1: where there has been a profound and I mean profound

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Speaker 1: collapse of trust between the American people and institutions, and

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Speaker 1: that crisis of character is not something that ever caught

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Speaker 1: up to the person I'm real privileged to be able

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Speaker 1: to be with this afternoon. That's Terry Moran, journalist, ABC newsman.

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Speaker 1: When those words meant something and there were inviolate standards,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about some of that today. I've worked

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Speaker 1: with Terry over my political career. I have no idea

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Speaker 1: where Terry's politics ever ever worked. You could hold a

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Speaker 1: gun to my head. Didn't know. He was an objective, fair,

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Speaker 1: straight shooting reporter. It's the work privileged to have him

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Speaker 1: with us. You can find Terry on his sub stack

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Speaker 1: type in Terry Moran. It's growing fast. It's a great, great,

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Speaker 1: great read, and it's good to see Terry out there. Terry,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you today that there will

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Speaker 1: be a large, large cohort of this audience that remembers

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Speaker 1: Peter Jennings. Take us inside the room to the best

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Speaker 1: of your ability, imagining Peter Jennings was still with us today.

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Speaker 1: And you you you watched what unfolded on television with

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Speaker 1: the President of the United States flanked by the Attorney

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Speaker 1: General of the United States, by the by the Defense

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Speaker 1: Secretary of the United States, and you have to get

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Speaker 1: ready for an evening newscast that that's going to try

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Speaker 1: to explicate this to the to the American people. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we're back any day. There are serious people

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Speaker 1: sitting around the table to take their obligations and their

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Speaker 1: duty very very very seriously. And and and I'm just

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Speaker 1: take us into the room imagining Peter Jennings is just

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Speaker 1: walking into the room as the managing director of World

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Speaker 1: News World News tonight. You guys got to get ready

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Speaker 1: for the broadcast after watching that what what what did

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Speaker 1: we see today? Wow?

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Speaker 2: That is such a great invitation because I love Peter Jennings.

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Speaker 2: He was kind of he was a mentor to me

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Speaker 2: in many ways, as he was to many people. An

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Speaker 2: interesting man, a curious man. And the thing that he

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Speaker 2: brought to the coverage Steve day after day and he

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Speaker 2: got in trouble for it, good trouble, as they say

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Speaker 2: was values if he felt something was wrong, he didn't

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Speaker 2: stand up and write an editorial about it, but he

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Speaker 2: wanted to tell the truth about what he saw. And

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Speaker 2: I'll give you a very good So I was white rookie.

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Speaker 2: White House corresponded. When George W. Bush came into office,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we did the nine to eleven happened,

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Speaker 2: the response to the country, and then the administration started

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Speaker 2: planning an invasion of Iraq on the basis of weapons

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Speaker 2: of mass destruction. I talked to people all across the

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Speaker 2: government and outside of our government and other governments, people

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Speaker 2: in the Israeli government, people in the British government and

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Speaker 2: intelligence that people at the UN, former weapons inspectors.

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Speaker 1: All kinds of people on the hill. There were only

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Speaker 1: two people.

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Speaker 2: Who said, not Saddam jose and does not have any

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Speaker 2: weapons of mass destruction. One was that guy Scott Ritter,

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Speaker 2: who is the He was a weapons inspector, kind of compromised.

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Speaker 2: He was cozying up to Saddam and Tarikazi's It was

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Speaker 2: a little of the foreigners.

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Speaker 1: It was a little weird. But the other one was Peter.

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Speaker 2: Jennings, and I remember I got out of having an

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Speaker 2: editorial meeting with them, and I'd gotten out of a

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Speaker 2: briefing that the White House was giving and I and

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Speaker 2: Peter said, you know, tera Ed, I'm looking at these

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Speaker 2: scientists who are coming out. He'd lived in the Middle

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Speaker 2: East eleven years, covered the region extensively and had a

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Speaker 2: feel for it, right. I don't think they have it

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Speaker 2: that he has any webs the best distrection, I said, Peter,

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Speaker 2: I'm in the White House. I just talked to kind

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Speaker 2: of these a rice. I just you know, I know

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Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. I'm the reporter here. It was

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Speaker 2: a lesson and one that I a burden that I carry.

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Speaker 1: In some ways. I could have done a better job.

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Speaker 2: I understood diplomacy in some ways, and I kept challenging

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Speaker 2: Bush on why are you abandon in our allies? Why

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Speaker 2: are you going it alone? You know, this is a

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Speaker 2: major enterprise. But I didn't have an experience in the

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Speaker 2: classified intelligence kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And it was Peter's feel for it.

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Speaker 2: And he wasn't afraid to say it, and he made

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Speaker 2: my pieces better than they would have been by injecting

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Speaker 2: that that understanding he had, being unafraid in front of

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Speaker 2: seventy percent of the country was in favor of that invasions.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying Peter was in favor of it or not.

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Speaker 2: He just had a sense that truth mattered and that

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Speaker 2: you had to bring your own understanding based on your

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Speaker 2: reporting and on your values. That tone, that language is

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Speaker 2: gone today. The network news, you know, corporate news, legacy news,

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Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. They they're afraid of

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Speaker 2: that kind of language today. They don't use it. It's

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Speaker 2: become more simplified. There are hardly any verbs anymore. Everybody's

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Speaker 2: always saying today the president talking about, well, it's nighttime.

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Speaker 2: My favorite example of that is when Elizabeth Taylor died,

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Speaker 2: the headline was tonight Elizabeth Taylor died.

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, she did that already.

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Speaker 2: So the language has been dumbed down, which is for urgency, urgency,

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Speaker 2: the terror of the past tense I call it.

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Speaker 1: But then I think the other thing that happened is that.

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Speaker 2: The retreat from values try to try to try to

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Speaker 2: tell the story one side the other side, and all

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Speaker 2: that without without any sense of the actual truthful value

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Speaker 2: values that are at stake. And I think that's partly

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Speaker 2: the influence of the corporation that doesn't want to rock

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Speaker 2: the boat, and I'm just talking about I'm not talking

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Speaker 2: about anything internal. I'm talking about obviously what we can

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Speaker 2: all witness, and my understanding in general is from my experience,

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Speaker 2: the corporation certainly doesn't want that, and it also is

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Speaker 2: a moment that is too big for that model. My

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Speaker 2: friends and colleagues, whom I respect tremendously, they still do

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Speaker 2: great work.

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Speaker 1: I look at ABC News every day. I got no

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Speaker 1: hard feelings.

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Speaker 2: Genuinely, it's their business, it's their see how they can

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Speaker 2: do what they want.

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Speaker 1: I crossed the line.

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Speaker 2: They didn't like whatever, But they aren't meeting the moment.

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Speaker 2: They're one of our many institutions that are failing to

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Speaker 2: tell the truth to themselves in the first instance, or

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Speaker 2: maybe they are behind closed doors about what is happening,

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Speaker 2: what is clearly happening in our country, and that model,

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Speaker 2: which is imposed to some extent by corporate interests, can't

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Speaker 2: tell the truth as in full as it is to

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Speaker 2: the American people. And I think that's one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons why, one of the many reasons why that's a

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Speaker 2: very difficult business to being. Right now, what's happened today?

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Speaker 1: What did you witness Trump do today?

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Speaker 2: Well, this was the theater of authoritarianism and the reality

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Speaker 2: of it. Right, this is the kind of thing that

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Speaker 2: you'd see in South America in the nineteen fifties, or

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Speaker 2: you know, it's the Orbon playbook, the Polish playbook. This

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Speaker 2: is put troops on the streets, even if they aren't

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Speaker 2: really needed. He did that in La. You know, there

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Speaker 2: ryots out of control of La. In LA they kept

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Speaker 2: showing the same one car burning. The police in La

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Speaker 2: are pretty good, they were on top of it. There

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Speaker 2: were protesters, legit peaceful, some getting out of control. No

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Speaker 2: sign that the local authorities were unable to deal with that.

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Speaker 2: But he wanted the troops on the street. He wanted

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Speaker 2: you to feel that. And I'm talking to friends around

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Speaker 2: here who live in DC. I live out in Frederick, Maryland,

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Speaker 2: and he wants them to feel it. He wants people

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Speaker 2: to feel the exercise of his domination on their streets

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Speaker 2: and on the streets of somebody else's city. So you

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Speaker 2: don't want to, you know, you don't want to get

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Speaker 2: two out of the lane that you're supposed to be

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Speaker 2: in in your own city.

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Speaker 1: And don't think that's not working. It is working.

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Speaker 2: I was in a foreign correspondent for five years. And

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Speaker 2: I was in London one night waiting for the evening

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Speaker 2: news to Peter Jennings News, although he was gone by then,

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Speaker 2: which comes out at twelve thirty in the morning in London.

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Speaker 2: So there with my producer from Poland to mcroski, great guy,

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Speaker 2: and he was in there were in the throes of

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Speaker 2: that government in Poland, the Law and Justice Party, which

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Speaker 2: did something very similar that from what we're enduring now,

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Speaker 2: and they were just stripped the judiciary of authority, that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing. And I said to Toemik, I said,

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Speaker 2: what's it like to live there? Just what's it like

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Speaker 2: for people are in agreement with the government. And he

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Speaker 2: said something that has come back to me a lot

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Speaker 2: these days. He said, your life gets smaller. You try

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Speaker 2: not to look around, you try not to stand up,

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Speaker 2: your life gets smaller. That's what Trump wants. What we

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Speaker 2: saw today was a performance of authority backed up now

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Speaker 2: by presidential powers that nobody's going to stop him from using,

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Speaker 2: not Congress, not the courts, in order to dominate dominate opposition.

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Speaker 2: And it's also on an issue. You know that a

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Speaker 2: lot of ordinary Americans are only glancing at the news,

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Speaker 2: you know a little bit every day. He say, well, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess DC's full of crime.

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Speaker 1: Go get him. He's not stupid. You lost your job

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Speaker 1: at ABC News for offering an assessment about Steven Miller,

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Speaker 1: and you were gone within within forty eight hours. And

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Speaker 1: I have been really looking forward to you talking to

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Speaker 1: you about it, particularly with the with the passage of

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Speaker 1: of some time right out of the out of the

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Speaker 1: moment where I think you can objectively analyze some some

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Speaker 1: of this a little bit better. Do you?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember exactly what you said about them? I

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Speaker 2: mean not word for word, but I remember writing. I

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Speaker 2: mean I was a sound mind and body, so I

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Speaker 2: certainly remember writing it. And I remember that I thought

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Speaker 2: before I said that, I thought this is pretty hot,

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Speaker 2: this is this is tough. But I looked at it

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Speaker 2: before I sent it, and I thought that's a description.

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Speaker 2: I knew people would not like it within and without

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Speaker 2: ABC News, but I thought, I'm describing something, and I

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Speaker 2: believe that was describing it accurately and fairly. I do

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Speaker 2: remember I said I called him a world class hater,

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Speaker 2: which he is. I've been thinking about it all day

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Speaker 2: that day, something about the man in which his public

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Speaker 2: persona was just bludgeoning the body politic every day almost

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Speaker 2: with with lies and kind of spitting venom, and and

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Speaker 2: it was it's.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask, Let me ask this question, right. Would

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Speaker 1: would there have been an objection if you described David

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Speaker 1: Duke as a world class hater? That's a great question.

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Speaker 2: Probably I might have had a minor reprimand I would

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Speaker 2: not love my job, but I might have had a reprimand.

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Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as a world class hater?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that's a fair description, that there

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Speaker 1: are people that, for whatever reason, burn with a deep

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Speaker 1: hatred that just objectively, those those human beings have existed

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Speaker 1: over the over the course of history. Sure. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm as a reporter.

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Speaker 2: I look at the way Stephen Miller addresses the public,

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Speaker 2: the way he fills the airwaves with lies and with

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Speaker 2: this intense almost almost desire to to enrage and to humiliate.

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Speaker 1: He almost spits out his words. I mean, how would

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Speaker 1: you describe that? That's hatred? Hi Trump too, Morgan. I

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Speaker 1: think about your description and the consequence of it through

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Speaker 1: a very singular appraisal. There's only there's only one person

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Speaker 1: I think about, and in the moment that happened, it

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Speaker 1: was a man named abner Less, and abner Less was

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Speaker 1: a German Jew who became an Israeli police captain, and

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Speaker 1: he was the singular person who interrogated at Off Hikman,

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Speaker 1: which he did for two hundred and seventy five hours,

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Speaker 1: and he never talked about it. Who lied to his

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Speaker 1: interrogate him and knew he was up for it and

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Speaker 1: wouldn't get it if his bosses in Israel knew that

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Speaker 1: he was a that he was in fact a survivor,

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Speaker 1: you know, and had lost lost his family. So however, however,

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Speaker 1: he obscured that he did. And he's asked about the

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Speaker 1: experience in nineteen eighty once, so twenty years later, and

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Speaker 1: he said, did you have any takeaways from that? And

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Speaker 1: he says absolutely, he gave me my full faith in

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Speaker 1: democracy because there are Adolf Kamans everywhere. They're all around us.

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Speaker 1: But they're harmless in a democracy, but they but they

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Speaker 1: but they turned deadly in an instant and a dictatorship.

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Speaker 1: And what Stephen or is is a is a little Aikman.

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Speaker 1: And he would have been understood as a little iikeman

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Speaker 1: contemporaneous to when that term was familiarized and popularized in

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Speaker 1: the in the nineteen sixties. And so if you if

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Speaker 1: you eradicate objectively right as a news organization s right,

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Speaker 1: the ability to describe someone accurate, precisely, surgically, then what

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Speaker 1: you do is remove at a foundational level the keys

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Speaker 1: to understanding someone like a Reinhart Heidrich, someone like a

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Speaker 1: Joseph Goebbels. And you really censor historically by removing from

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Speaker 1: consideration the role that this hatred had, any events that

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Speaker 1: transpired when the personality disorder came into contact with the

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Speaker 1: men's political power. And so if you can objectively look at,

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Speaker 1: say Pope Francis, and say that this is a person

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Speaker 1: who advocated for love in the world, and also appreciate

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Speaker 1: that there are doctrinal differences in a two thousand year

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Speaker 1: old church if you're covering it through that praism, But objectively,

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Speaker 1: what did he stand for? He stood for these values?

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Speaker 1: And are there antithetical values to that? And I would

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Speaker 1: argue that there are, and are they represented right by vices?

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Speaker 1: And among those vices, are there such things as bigotry?

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Speaker 1: Are there such things as hatred? Are there such things

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Speaker 1: is cruelty, and there are all of those things, and

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Speaker 1: they are really the singular lessons of the twentieth century.

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Speaker 1: And to watch you lose a pristine journalism career for

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Speaker 1: the precise description of such things six months in to

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Speaker 1: an autocratic travesty was quite a jar and moment in

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Speaker 1: all of it. But the one thing that no one

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Speaker 1: will ever be able to say about you is that

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Speaker 1: you lost your integrity with so many others along the

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Speaker 1: road over these many years. So good for you, yeah, Steve,

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Speaker 1: thank you on many counts. There.

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Speaker 2: First, you helped me, help me understand sort of why

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Speaker 2: I did it. I can tell you the feelings, but

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Speaker 2: I think the language was necessary to accurately describe what

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Speaker 2: was in front of me. And the way you just

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Speaker 2: put it is really helpful to understand that we must

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Speaker 2: use the language of values in covering the world, because

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Speaker 2: the world is made up of that of right and wrong,

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Speaker 2: of love and hate. And if you can't, as a

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Speaker 2: journalist describe and perceive those values at work, good and evil,

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Speaker 2: then you can't. You are really doing your job. You're

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Speaker 2: collecting a paycheck, and it was a pretty good one.

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Speaker 2: But you are really doing your job, and then the

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Speaker 2: other I also thank you for the compliment. It's people

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Speaker 2: sometimes come up to me now and say, oh, thanks

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Speaker 2: for your courage. I'm like, well, I just got fired.

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Speaker 2: I mean, but I do understand sort of what they said.

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Speaker 2: My wife, my dear wife, Johanna, we are ten years

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Speaker 2: married now, it's way closer to twenty years together, but

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Speaker 2: ten years married. And she said, the night we told

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Speaker 2: the kids I got three kids, she said, often when

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Speaker 2: people get fired.

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Speaker 1: It's because of something shameful that they did.

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Speaker 2: And Daddy got fired for telling the truth, and which

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Speaker 2: met a great deal to me that she said that,

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Speaker 2: and that the kids heard it, and it's.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons that I am as upbeat.

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Speaker 2: Look, I have a very daunting personal challenge ahead of me,

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Speaker 2: and God love some tips from you as how how

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Speaker 2: you would more experience in these new media spaces which

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Speaker 2: are exciting, which definitely are the media of tomorrow, that

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Speaker 2: news communities rather than news networks corporate networks. But I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm upbeat about it because I don't think I did

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Speaker 2: anything wrong. And as I said, I know I'm not

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Speaker 2: bitter about it's their companies, their policies.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough, I am.

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Speaker 2: Who I am and I remain that way and fair

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Speaker 2: forward that way.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's what I'm gonna do. When when you

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Speaker 1: when you look at what happened today, what would I

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Speaker 1: see is is a I see a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: The first thing I see is you described it perfectly

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Speaker 1: as the is the autocratic fear. And if you're of

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Speaker 1: a certain age and you grew up in in the

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Speaker 1: place that I grew up with, which northern New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: with with Donald Trump in the in the frontal lobe, right,

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Speaker 1: since since I was since I was nine years old,

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Speaker 1: everybody knows that person. I was talking about this on

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Speaker 1: a podcast earlier that if you say, hey, we're going

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Speaker 1: to the beach, they're like, yeah, not made sharks, right,

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Speaker 1: Or like, yeah, I'm going on a vacation in Montana,

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Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, I won't go there. Bears right, that

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Speaker 1: they have some right fear right that's completely unnatural, And

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Speaker 1: you can go back forty years. Donald Trump's fear right,

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Speaker 1: that his boogeyman, right is the Central Park five right,

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Speaker 1: he is afraid of black teenagers. Right to him, this

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Speaker 1: is the lion amidst the savannah grasses. Right, this is

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Speaker 1: the great predator in America. And you can look back

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Speaker 1: forty years to his call for the death penalty of

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Speaker 1: the Central Park five. All the racial animis, all the

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Speaker 1: racial bigotry, never missed an opportunity right to pile on

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Speaker 1: to make a declaration to use force. And so you

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Speaker 1: have this spectacle today like this right, And I don't

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Speaker 1: know how you detach these two things. Is that the

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Speaker 1: executive action right, which is that we must assert these

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Speaker 1: powers now? And these powers and you can tell me

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Speaker 1: if you think I'm overstating it, but I but I

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Speaker 1: think functionally he rescinded home ruled today, right, which he

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Speaker 1: has he has the authority to do.

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Speaker 2: Basically, he's going to have to have the prostrate Congress

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Speaker 2: pass the law.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, right, where that where that path? Right? And

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Speaker 1: so he has taken power from a majority black city,

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Speaker 1: neoner their elected officials, really stripped them as a fundamental

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Speaker 1: right of of citizenship. Has has pointed you're and stigmatized

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Speaker 1: them as as criminals. Right, a city of a city

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Speaker 1: of criminals. He's cleaning up the slums. He's given license

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Speaker 1: to the federal agents to do whatever they want to

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Speaker 1: whomever they want, to beat anyone they want. He made

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Speaker 1: that clear, and all of the homeless people are going

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Speaker 1: to be shipped away somewhere quote far away. And that's

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Speaker 1: the that's the news conference, that's the announcement. He's got

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General who's covering up the Epstein situation and

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Speaker 1: will be a party to the partning of Gislaine Maxwell,

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Speaker 1: standing on his left. He's got the Defense Secretary standing

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Speaker 1: on his right, who's saying he's ready to deploy the

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Speaker 1: armed forces into all the American cities where there's where

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Speaker 1: there's where there's disorder and chaos. And it's some hours later,

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Speaker 1: and I don't see really any type of what I

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Speaker 1: would assess as coherent response right from the from the

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Speaker 1: opposition party, right like at a at a at a

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Speaker 1: national at a national level. And so what what what what? Like?

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Speaker 1: How do you account for the lacks of daisicalness, the

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Speaker 1: lack of urgency, the lack of ability to speak out

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Speaker 1: and denounce this in a way that connects with people

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Speaker 1: across the country. Why, like I saw someone who was

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Speaker 1: incoherent and deranged today, Why why does he have Democrats

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Speaker 1: on their back foot? Yeah, that is that is a

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Speaker 1: great question. Also, I'm glad you went there on the

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Speaker 1: question of race because.

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Speaker 2: Ause, you know, for a long time in my life,

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Speaker 2: my now long life, if you were a racist, you

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Speaker 2: were shamed to say so, right, And now they're all

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Speaker 2: out in public, they found each other online.

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Speaker 1: It's it's pretty ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: The problem now is if you want to call out

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Speaker 2: what is actually factually racism in front of you, you're

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Speaker 2: afraid to do it because you're just you're dragging up

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Speaker 2: the boogeyman of race again. And I think you're absolutely

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Speaker 2: right here the way he talks about slums, this dirty city.

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Speaker 2: Get these guys out of here, get rough, and you

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Speaker 2: can hear the animus in there. As for the Democrats,

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Speaker 2: they lost their working class roots.

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Speaker 1: You know this better than I.

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Speaker 2: Right many how many of those leaders actually seem to

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Speaker 2: have a stake in these things and they're getting funded

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Speaker 2: by people who don't if I mean, that's too much, obviously,

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Speaker 2: I think obviously there's some really great democratic emerging leaders,

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Speaker 2: from Jasmine Crockett to John ass Off. I think AOC

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Speaker 2: remains a compelling figure, but the actual leadership seems still

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Speaker 2: stuck in the nineties almost in terms of their model

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Speaker 2: of rhetoric and how they view the issues and now

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Speaker 2: they're kind of they're kind of trapped by being to

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Speaker 2: tether to the professional classes. You need some kind of

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Speaker 2: brawlers in there. You need people who didn't, you know,

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Speaker 2: go to the right college. They weren't, they weren't in

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Speaker 2: the front row with their hand up getting the A

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Speaker 2: every time.

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Speaker 1: But they're right.

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Speaker 2: But they're right. They're right about things, and they know

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Speaker 2: it and they live it. And you have some people

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Speaker 2: like that. But it is it is dismaying that the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party seems unable to find that voice. You know,

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Speaker 2: Corey Booker speaking for twenty five hours or whatever it was,

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Speaker 2: I don't remember it. You know, it is a nice try,

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Speaker 2: but in order to do what, in order to do

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Speaker 2: what now, they don't have power and the Republicans aren't

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Speaker 2: going to give them power. But I think this is

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Speaker 2: going to be something that I think this is the

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Speaker 2: set piece for a longer display of force in the cities,

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Speaker 2: and I expect that to come around the mid terms.

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to get accustomed to seeing troops

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Speaker 2: on the streets of our cities. He'll cook up some

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Speaker 2: emergency around the election and there will be troops monitoring

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Speaker 2: the election. I think that's the worst case scenario, but

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's out of out of the possibility. Democrats,

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Speaker 2: how are they going to stand up to that? When

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Speaker 2: they march, They'll they'll get marked, They'll they'll be confronted

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Speaker 2: with another emergency order that will bring the authoritarian heal

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Speaker 2: down even harder on them. I think the model for

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Speaker 2: resistance for me right now is what we're seeing that's

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Speaker 2: really changing hearts and minds on the immigration authoritarianism. Right

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Speaker 2: They're the ripping of children from school rooms and women

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Speaker 2: from their from their kids, out of their cars and

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Speaker 2: all the rest of it. And that's citizen journalism. And

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at my phone, So it's people doing that,

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Speaker 2: confronting the authorities and putting it out instantly into the

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Speaker 2: world where it gets picked up. And you hear people

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Speaker 2: like Joe Rogan, You hear neighbors of mine. I live

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Speaker 2: in kind of a purple district who didn't really sign

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Speaker 2: up for that level of brutality.

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Speaker 1: Dairy farmers.

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Speaker 2: I'm open go to out and talk to dairy farmers

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Speaker 2: who certainly voted for Trump in big numbers but now

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Speaker 2: are without without workers. It is it is connecting with

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Speaker 2: people like that and more than anything standing up, not

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Speaker 2: in a protest necessarily.

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Speaker 1: Protests are fine.

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Speaker 2: They raise awareness, they forge solidarity, but at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, they don't do much. You put pictures

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Speaker 2: out you we go to where the where the where

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Speaker 2: the troops are or whatever. We put our bodies out

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Speaker 2: there with our own cameras and record what's happening.

435
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: There's a better chance.

436
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: Of mobilizing the great muddled middle of America, which is

437
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 2: still there. It's important to remember what we saw on

438
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: the Oval Office today is not really what most Americans

439
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 2: voted for. I'm convinced of that. You know, Trump is

440
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 2: underwater still because most Americans want what they've always wanted,

441
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 2: a pragmatic way of making life better, not a theater

442
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: of authoritarianism, not boots on the ground to terrorize black people.

443
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: They want problems fixed, and crime is a problem in

444
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: many places. I don't think democrats should understan under sell that.

445
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: But it's more affordability, and he's making that worse. And

446
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 2: there's openings for democrats I don't see him taking because

447
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel like they're connected to to normal people,

448
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: ordinary people as much as they used to be.

449
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I'm wrong about that, but it feels like.

450
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: They're they're at one remove and like they're reading a

451
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: script as how to connect with you rather than connecting

452
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: with you. I mean, look, Gavin Newsom, who I talk to,

453
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: is you know, is I think on the page?

454
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: Uh?

455
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 2: And is trying really hard to shed some of the

456
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: slick politic politician that he does so well and find

457
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: himself and find solidarity with other people.

458
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: Is that gonna be enough? I don't know.

459
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: I think there's some really good Democrats out there are

460
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: the in Congress, some of them, but not that many.

461
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: That's my own.

462
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: You you're much more astute political minds than I am.

463
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: What is wrong with the Democrats?

464
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. But like the most obvious thing in

465
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: the world to me is something we'd all talk about

466
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,479
Speaker 1: at all, which is Zurhamndami and Trump beat the same guys.

467
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: Huh as well. Yeah, and you know, the American people

468
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: have made made a judgment and they're not You're not

469
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: seeing any elasticity in the numbers right with with the

470
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: Democratic Party, right, So at some level you're witnessing a

471
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 1: game of chicken, right. And I have a I have

472
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: a republic I have a Republican friend in New York

473
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: and you know he's he's like Zorhan, Right, He's like,

474
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm voting for his or He's like, he's like, you

475
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: give me the choice, right Andrew Cmo and Eric Adams,

476
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: and he goes, I got Zorhan. He is into the

477
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: fucking ground. He's like, I'm just sick of it. Right.

478
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: So he's like in a category of voters that the

479
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: Democratic establishment place checking with, right, that they that they say, well,

480
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna abide in Eric Adams, You're gonna tolerate a Clomo. Right,

481
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna let you you know, we're gonna

482
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: tell you that. Right. It's either you know these guys,

483
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: or there's gonna be a crisis. Right, democracy is gonna

484
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: be in trouble or this or whatever whatever. And people

485
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: are just sick of it, right, calling call him bullshit

486
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: out of it. And I and I think the Chuck

487
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: Schumer thing is a is a big deal. Like you know,

488
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: you talked about kind of common sense. Right, you know

489
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: you're in a crisis, You're in trouble. Right, we're in

490
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: a proverbial plane crash in the middle of the Alaskan bush. Right,

491
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: we got a we got to hike out of the wilderness,

492
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: and we had to hike out of the wilderness. Right

493
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: on what planet is the guy at the front of

494
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: the column, Chuck Schumer? Right? And I think that's a

495
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: huge issue for for the Democratic senators. And he's running

496
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: for reelection, you know, he's running for reelection as the

497
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: as the Senate, as the Senate leader, and there has

498
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: to be fresh faces forward who can go out and

499
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: I think talk about some of the some of the uh,

500
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: the federal comments. I mean, I think you know, I

501
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: just saw one of the comments there stop vilifying Democrats. Right,

502
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: there's a there is a culture a fan boy and fangirlism,

503
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: right where you have two reciprocal cults right where you know,

504
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: no half field will dare speak badly about a half

505
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: field to know McCoy about McCoy. And the problem with

506
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: it for Democrats, right is that they're the weaker party,

507
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: right in the weaker party never loses to the stronger party, right,

508
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: And so what what the Democratic Party has to become

509
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: is a strong party. And the way it becomes the

510
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: strong parties by being the American party against an non

511
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: American party. Right, that's the that's the identity that the

512
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: Democratic Party has to espouse is an American identity right,

513
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: and to say that the American identity is open to

514
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: all people. We believe in a quality for all people right,

515
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: and that whether you're a black, brown, white, whatever, is

516
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: an American right. We believe in a creed, and that

517
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: creed is that we're all created equally. And this is

518
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: what we have to be able to put into competition

519
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: against an idea that holds that Donald Trump is the law.

520
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump decides who's above the law, who's below the law,

521
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: who gets to make money, who doesn't get to make money,

522
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: who gets to have an opinion, who doesn't get to

523
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: have an opinion? And I would just say that any

524
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: time you see a person like the nutty pastor of

525
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth go out and start doing CNN interviews, you

526
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: gotta think, like, why is now the time to start

527
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: surfacing right my belief that women should lose their right

528
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: to vote, and that slavery was a good thing and

529
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: the black people enjoyed it, and the white slave master

530
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: was benevolent and kind, and the patriarchy worked and so

531
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: on and so forth, and Churchill was the villain and

532
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: Hitler was mis understood, and and and and so on

533
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: and so forth. And you know, look, you know, all

534
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: of these things are connected, and all of these things

535
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: are worrying, and all of these things demand people to

536
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: be really alert and to wake up, right. And you

537
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: know when when when people kind of reflexibly say, you know,

538
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: they say, this this institution that lost an election to

539
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, Right, that's how fucked up it is. Right,

540
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: it lost two elects to Donald Trump. I lost an election,

541
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: you know for a guy in a Barack Obama, right,

542
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: big difference, right, But but you lose two elections to

543
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump. And we we face a political position

544
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: in the country now where Trump is growing more unpopular

545
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: by the day but more powerful by the hour. And

546
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: and and that has to be arrested. It has to

547
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: be challenged in the and John Kennedy spoke to this.

548
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: He said, you know, what is the purpose of a

549
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: political party if it's not to serve a national purpose?

550
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: The purpose of the Democratic Party can't be the vehicle

551
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 1: for the power of like Amy klobach Or and Chuck Schumer. Right.

552
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,919
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to disparage him in any way

553
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: other than to say the purpose of the Democratic party

554
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: isn't a vehicle for individual and bitching. It must be

555
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: the vehicle for the defense of the country against the

556
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: fascist cause. And and and that is the essential challenge

557
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: for Democrats right now to rise up, put the country

558
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: in an American identity for four square at the center

559
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: of the party's brand. And I think that'll work. But

560
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: they're not there yet.

561
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: They're not there by a long shot. And I think

562
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 2: you're exactly right. This is a this is a moment

563
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: where I kind of in your description of Schumer and Klobashar,

564
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: two things occurred to me. First, the next Democratic Party

565
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: is going to be the people that rebel against this

566
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 2: Democratic Party. They got to take sure. Yeah, they have

567
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: to throw it. They have to like like mum, done

568
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 2: right there. They're gonna have to overthrow the establishment. And

569
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: the second thing is because that establishment, the way you

570
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: describe it, it reminds me of ABC News and of

571
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 2: the other network news media that I was part of

572
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 2: for so long. And in this way, that language, that

573
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: way of doing business doesn't work.

574
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: The times have changed.

575
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: You're not meeting the moment because you you aren't able

576
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: to given the the preconceptions that the idea, given how

577
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: you do business.

578
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: It's not going to work. It's not going to work.

579
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: The world has changed, change with it, and I think

580
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: that's what people want to see from the Democrats. I

581
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 2: do think they have a a great heritage and a

582
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: great message, the patriotic one that you just that you

583
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 2: just outlined. The Democrats have, my entire life stood for

584
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: the people, all of the people, without embarrassment. And second,

585
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: I think the other thing is that they have lying

586
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: on the table there, you know, the populist economic message

587
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 2: that I think people still want seen put into action.

588
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is cutting taxes for the wealthiest people in America,

589
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 2: and he's cutting healthcare for the people who need it most.

590
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 2: If you can't win an election based on it, you

591
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 2: know what the matter is. And there's this incredible concentration

592
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: of wealth at the top, which everybody knows is a

593
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 2: huge problem, and the Democrats have a solution on the table.

594
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 2: In some ways, it is what Elizabeth Warren calls the

595
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 2: ultra millionaire's tax.

596
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: She's got to get with the era of Trump.

597
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: It's the filthy rich people tax, right, I mean, a

598
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: wealth tax might be complicated, might be unconstitutional. Well, one

599
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: hundred and some years ago we rose up as one

600
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 2: people when there was an illegitimate concentration of wealth crushing

601
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: the hopes of so many people, and passed the constitutional

602
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: modment together. And if you put that kind of thing

603
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: before the American people or policies in that direction, Bernie

604
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: Sanders shows it. You know, Trump was more prey to

605
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders exide from the socialist level label, than he

606
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,959
Speaker 2: was of anybody else because he he understands that's where

607
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: the votes are.

608
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: People want change.

609
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 2: They want change to make life better for them, to

610
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 2: make the opportunities real.

611
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: And to bring the high and mighty down a bit.

612
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: This is America.

613
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 2: We don't have some tech oligarchy. We shouldn't at any

614
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: rate who kind of pay to play. Look at the

615
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 2: deal and Vidia just made, you know, the distorting our

616
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: democracy with the United States, and people should be able

617
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: to rise and not be blocked by people who have

618
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 2: illegitimate power that they're basically purchasing now from the federal government.

619
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: And I think that's you know, that's the next Democratic Party.

620
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 2: Whether they like it or not, they're going to find

621
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 2: people who do that and they're going to win.

622
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: I think that a huge part of the future message

623
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: is about confronting power and taking it away from the

624
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: accumulation of some of the most powerful interests in American history.

625
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: And that means very specifically from the office of president.

626
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: It means re establishing the coequality of the congers, means

627
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: re establishing the checks and balances. It means putting a

628
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: check on the tech companies. But the accumulation of power

629
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: through big institutions, all of it starts, I think with

630
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: an embrace of fundamental ethics reform, campaign finance reform, and

631
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 1: some big structural reforms that the Democratic Party should should

632
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: embrace at a at a return to roots level, so

633
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: we can go out and talk about the type of

634
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: serfdom that too many people live under. Forty percent of

635
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: the country is four hundred dollars cash available. And you know,

636
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: these are the people that are dealing with thirty percent

637
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: credit card rates. They like their life and opportunity is

638
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: defined by an invisible algorithm, a credit score. Right. You know,

639
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: every every major bank is bailed out there in debt

640
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: up to their eyeballs. We have loaded the young people

641
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: up with debt. Their degrees are meaningless, so we have

642
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: not created the conditions of opportunity. And I say this

643
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: the candidates all the time, you know, I talk about

644
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: you know that, you know, talk about a race to them.

645
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 1: You know, when people call and I make the point,

646
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: I say, have you ever had have you ever been

647
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: on a ladder? And and they and every every person

648
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: I've ever asked that question says yes. And I said, well,

649
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: when you're climbing the ladder, what what direction are you looking?

650
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: And you know, they they they, you know, everyone pauses

651
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: and they say up. And I go, well, when when

652
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 1: when you stop climbing the ladder right? You know where

653
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: people start looking? They start they start looking down right,

654
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: And and if they're if you're stuck on the middle

655
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: of that ladder and you're no longer looking up and

656
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: you're looking down, will you become concerned about is someone

657
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: trying to pull you down off that ladder right coming

658
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: up from behind you? And that is that is that

659
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: is fundamentally the story of American immigration is that when

660
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: we have declining opportunity, uh you have rising at any

661
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: immigration sentiment and the accumulation of a lot of different

662
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: factors have created the opportunities for the demogragory we've seen.

663
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: But when you look at the fact that ice is

664
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: the fifteenth largest military in the world. Now we got

665
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: mask guys running around the country. That that with the bonuses,

666
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: every whack job deputy sheriff and bad cop is gonna

667
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: is going to wind up being a federal agent. Right,

668
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: They're going to be shed from their police forces. Right,

669
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 1: every loser and every police force is going to get

670
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: the pat on the back. It'd be like you make

671
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: a great ice agent talk, right, you know, that's just

672
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: human nature. Get them, get them off right the force

673
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: and get these eyes. Get these guys over over there,

674
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 1: and the and the if you had a bet on it,

675
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 1: like the American people, right, they're they're going to tolerate it, right,

676
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: the the you know, the mass guys in the militarized cities.

677
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,439
Speaker 1: Where does this? Where's that gut?

678
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 2: I don't think that's that's us? And uh, I don't

679
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 2: think we've changed. Yeah, I think there is a mass

680
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 2: movement like none I've seen in my lifetime. I don't

681
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: think there's been one in the country's history. Tens of

682
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: millions of Americans will follow this authoritarian personality.

683
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: To the ends of the earth. Uh.

684
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: And they get a kick out of it. The trolls

685
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: are delighted This isn't it. This is a government of

686
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 2: trolls with power to impose uh, their their hatreds, and

687
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 2: their inadequacies on the country. But most people are still normal.

688
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 2: I believe this truly the best kept secret in American life.

689
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: Most people are still normal. They are not for cruelty.

690
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 2: They don't get giddy and gleeful at some woman being

691
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: dragged away.

692
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: From her children. Nobody like nobody. We're decent people.

693
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 2: Americans are still a middle of the road, middle class,

694
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 2: middle temperament people. We are not zealous, we are not ideologues.

695
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 2: We like what works. Still, they have been persuaded by

696
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 2: hucksterism and by the lack of an effective democratic response

697
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 2: that Trump is going to make things better pragmatically.

698
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 1: Now his base, which is.

699
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 2: Tens of millions strong, they'll follow him to his program

700
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: of authoritarianism, no question about it.

701
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: But if it results in.

702
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: Wrecking opportunity, in restagflation, in the kind of economic misery

703
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: that that could well come because of what he's doing,

704
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 2: and the weakening of America around the world.

705
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: Then they won't win.

706
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 2: They won't win, and I don't think they win on

707
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: the national character either. We don't like to think of

708
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: ourselves as the bad guys. We don't we yes, we

709
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 2: fail at living up to our ideals, but they're still

710
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 2: our ideals, and I think trashing them.

711
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: He makes a big point of kissing the flag and

712
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: all that. It's all bs.

713
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 2: What is real is that we're decent people and as

714
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 2: his government makes us different in the eyes of the

715
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: world and increasingly in the eyes of Americans.

716
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: I don't think they're going to win.

717
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: That's why I don't think he wants to face true

718
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: in fair elections, because it's not a majority.

719
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: How much how much rope do you think he has?

720
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: How much how much time right that do you that

721
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 1: the did the American people indulge us? Well?

722
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: I saw that the price of some grocer's go to

723
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: go up forty percent under these tariffs because.

724
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: We get so much food for overseas. I think that'll

725
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: that'll do it. I think the inflation, the decline, the

726
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 1: job numbers are terrible.

727
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: I think the economy people people want, they want a

728
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 2: better life, and he's giving them a worse one. They

729
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: aren't quite feeling it yet, and then they're going to

730
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 2: go around with this cartoon dime store fascism that that

731
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: is on display I think that everything will look differently

732
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 2: if he is seen as I believe he is, to

733
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: be incompetent when it comes to the economy.

734
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 1: You know, he's.

735
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 2: He's a businessman really only in a reality TV and

736
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 2: I think that is going to be his downfall. What

737
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: he's doing to the budget, what he's doing to the

738
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 2: to the economy, was doing the world economy, was doing

739
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,439
Speaker 2: the American reputation in the world. I mean, they're buying

740
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 2: a drop of bourbon in Canada, right that is you

741
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 2: see a the world, other nations making other arrangements.

742
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: I was in a lcbo in uh Toronto yesterday and

743
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 1: there there is not a drop of fucking American liquor

744
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: in it, not a drop. They're angry.

745
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 2: They're angry, yes they are, and more than angry, they're

746
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,439
Speaker 2: doing something that will take a toll four years to come.

747
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: They're making different arrangements right now, after forty years, Trump

748
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 2: is drawing down the reservoir of goodwill and good trade

749
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 2: with the world that the world counted on. And so

750
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: countries around the world embedded themselves with the American economy,

751
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,720
Speaker 2: understanding that there might be a little bit of change

752
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 2: of direction this way, and that way, but he's vandalizing

753
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 2: the entire system and it's damaging them to their core,

754
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 2: and they are not going to be so dependent on

755
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: the American condomy again. Brazil is now buying all its

756
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: oil and Chinese currency. Now they're trying to d dollar

757
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: their economy as much as they can. That's going to

758
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: be happening around the world. Canada even is deciding to

759
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: make closer trade arrangements with Europe than with the United States.

760
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 2: He's got a few years of that he made, you know,

761
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 2: not last that long, just given the actuarial tables. But

762
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 2: he's definitely these policies are going to make Americans poor

763
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 2: and unhappier. And I know that because I covered Brexit.

764
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 2: Brexit was the same kind of spasm of emotional vengeance

765
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,479
Speaker 2: wreaked upon those front row kids right that had taken

766
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 2: over their government and rendered them, you know, irrelevant to

767
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: their own self governance in Britain, and they are making

768
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: themselves poorer and they are making themselves The food is

769
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 2: going to be worse because only the thing, the only

770
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 2: reason that made British food better was joining the EU

771
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 2: and getting all that Spanish cheese and Italian ingredients without

772
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 2: tariffs without without any impediment. As a result, Britain is

773
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: feeling smaller in the world today and the regret, the

774
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 2: regret in Britain about Brexit is huge, is huge, and

775
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 2: was pretty early on. I think we're going to have

776
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: much more regret when we see that people will not

777
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 2: want to engage in trade with US at the same

778
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: level for the foreseeable future, and that will make our

779
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 2: lives poor.

780
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: How do you process the stories that are accumulating at

781
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: a frightful pace about human rights abuses by US government

782
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: personnel in these private prisons and these detention facilities, where

783
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: through arrogance or stupidity, you have a group of people

784
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: who've decided apparently they can do whatever it is they

785
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: wish to do to other human beings without having to

786
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: worry about accountability, which is definitely not going to be

787
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: the be the case. But when you read about uh

788
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: people drinking out of toilets, children sleeping on on concrete floors,

789
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: why why is there? Why is what? What? How do

790
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: you account for the lack of meaningful what I would

791
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: describe as as as meaningful denunciation in the in the

792
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: in the public square at full volume. Is it that

793
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: the media has an allergy to to covering it vividly.

794
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: Is it that elite institutions are intimidated? Is it that

795
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: there's a collapse of moral authority generally in civil society?

796
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: What's the where where? How do you account for that?

797
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: Or is it is it simply the case that the

798
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: issue isn't severe enough yet. Yeah, that's a good push

799
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,479
Speaker 1: that it's not. It's that it's not it's not hot

800
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: enough yet. Maybe I think it is.

801
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: And what I flashed to once again, Look, I had

802
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 2: a great career at ABC News. The people were there

803
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: doing good work as under difficult conditions as best they can.

804
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,919
Speaker 2: That said, they are failing there and across legacy media,

805
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: which still has such a big influence, it's hard to

806
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: get these stories right. Actually it's not that hard. You're

807
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: seeing people with cell phones getting them every day. So

808
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 2: but getting into Alligator Alcatraz or getting to the site

809
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania that they're building, you know, I kind of

810
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 2: this is when I missed the resources of a major

811
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 2: corporate news network. You should be down there getting arrested

812
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: right or whatever, for at least make a noise like

813
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: this is happening in your name. You might not know

814
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 2: about it, but there are these terrible conditions people coming out,

815
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: talk to the lawyers, all the rest of it. And

816
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 2: I think you also need Congress. The institution is failing us.

817
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 2: Even a little bit of oversight would help on that.

818
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 2: But I do think that there's a reluctance. People have

819
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: seen too much of it. Right, The news is always new,

820
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: and so I was looking for the next bright, shiny thing,

821
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:27,720
Speaker 2: and yet this is a huge story, and I believe

822
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 2: we are failing to cover it, we all of us.

823
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: If I can get down there, I would.

824
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 2: And you know, I think that getting in trouble, getting

825
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 2: in good trouble might be necessary. And I think there's

826
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 2: an allergy to that, right the lawyers. I can't tell

827
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 2: you any specifics, right because it's whatever, But though it

828
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 2: had over the course of my career, and I think

829
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: across the networks, the lawyers, the corporate lawyers, went from

830
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 2: defending journalism to make journalism much more difficult to do that.

831
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 2: The bottom line became, not get this story out as

832
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: best you can, but stop this story from hurting the corporation.

833
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 2: And I absolutely am convinced that that is a general statement.

834
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 2: As these corporations saw the disadvantages of owning news networks,

835
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 2: and I do think at the end of the day,

836
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 2: they won't. Trump has made it very difficult for them.

837
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 2: They don't want to, you know, heuse He's a tiny,

838
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: tiny part at Disney. Did they want to have to

839
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: worry about some schmuck like me giving them a headache

840
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 2: With the president of the United States, they do not

841
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: want to worry about that.

842
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: So, you know, although I think what it might have

843
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: been a.

844
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 2: Better play for them was to stand up and say no,

845
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 2: you can't, and then they'd get a lot of good

846
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: publicity and all the rest of it. But their bottom

847
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 2: line is what matters. So I don't think the lawyers

848
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 2: are going to let you go get that story. I

849
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 2: don't know that as any kind of confidential information. But

850
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: my hunch is that the media is failing us. The

851
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: established media is failing to cover this story in a

852
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 2: way that grabs the attention to the American people and

853
00:52:58,920 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 2: awakens their conscience.

854
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: You know, if I was trying to do anything, maybe

855
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: I was trying to do that too.

856
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 2: And that's uh, that's that values based journalism we were

857
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: talking about that is so difficult to do in this moment,

858
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 2: and that I think that the corporate corporations that run

859
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 2: the legacy news media are reluctant to engage with They

860
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 2: don't want them to language of values to be part

861
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 2: of the journalism.

862
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a astonishing moment. It It truly is.

863
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,399
Speaker 1: UH as we watch all of this, as we watch

864
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: all of this unfold, when you look out at at Democrats,

865
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: who who do you see that you regard as that

866
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: person has presidential temper, that that person is, that that

867
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: person is is rigged for this moment in uh, in

868
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: the next that they that they're going to be able

869
00:53:58,520 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: to play at that level.

870
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: Well, there's no question that Gavin Newsom wants it. And

871
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 2: that's that's a necessary thing to have. You got to

872
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 2: want the job. And as you know, that's you got

873
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 2: to have the hunger in your belly does and I

874
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 2: do see this shift in his you can almost see

875
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: it dawning on him. I need to be with the

876
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 2: people in this way, not the way I have been right.

877
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 2: That kind of slick looks like he was born slick

878
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 2: and he's trying to unslick himself. Can he I don't know,

879
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 2: but he certainly is somebody who is reaching for the moment.

880
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 2: I don't know that that, you know, being governor of California,

881
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: is that Is that something that's going to appeal to

882
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: a lot of people. I don't know aside from him,

883
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 2: you know, on the other end of the spectrum, I'm

884
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 2: not sure he's in fact, I don't think he's presidential timber.

885
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 2: But I'm very intrigued by the tone and the seriousness

886
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 2: and the power and strength of John Ossoff, a very

887
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 2: quiet way that he that he has confronted Trump administration

888
00:54:55,320 --> 00:55:01,879
Speaker 2: officials with surgical cross examination that backs them down. I'd

889
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 2: like that that's not a presidential thing. Look there, the

890
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 2: bench turns out to be deep. There are a lot

891
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 2: of people on it, most of them governors. I'd like

892
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 2: to see what Gretchen Whitmer is made of right out there.

893
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 2: You never know until they start clashing. This is Biden's great,

894
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 2: great sin, right, is that at Thanksgiving in twenty twenty three,

895
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 2: somebody in his family didn't tell him, Hey, you know,

896
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: you've done your best.

897
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: Let's let's spend some time together now.

898
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 2: And instead he robbed the Democrats of having a primary

899
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 2: where you would have had Newsome, Whitmer, Pritzker, Basher you know,

900
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 2: right across the board, slugging it out. And that's when

901
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 2: you really when you really see what people are made

902
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 2: of who at the beginning of the Republican primaries, obviously

903
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,879
Speaker 2: Trump quickly dominated, But of the other mooks up there,

904
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: who would have said at the beginning the class of

905
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 2: that field was turned out to be Nicki Haley. She

906
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 2: she was the one who actually had you have to

907
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 2: see them kind of an action. The last thing I'll

908
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: say is I covered the collapse of the Baltimore Bridge

909
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: and and the and the recovery of the bodies and

910
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 2: the rebuilding of it for weeks, and I got to

911
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 2: know Wes Moore, the Governor of Maryland, pretty well. I

912
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 2: was I was there four in the morning the morning

913
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 2: after it collapsed, and stayed there for a while. He

914
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 2: is a very impressive man. He is a he is

915
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 2: a getter things doner. And I think one thing that

916
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 2: you can never forget is the American people understand the presidency.

917
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 2: It is an executive office. They want people who can

918
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 2: have a vision, can set an agenda, can marshal the

919
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 2: resources of the country to execute on it.

920
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: And he's that guy. Saw him do it with compassion

921
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: and smarts and firmness.

922
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 2: To to get that thing cleared out and get the

923
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 2: channel open to poor to Baltimore open, to do so

924
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 2: with heart and and to start uh at work on

925
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: a on a new bridge. I did see presidential timber

926
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 2: in that way. He's a very impressive guy.

927
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: What about uh, what about a what do you see

928
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: in a Pritzker?

929
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: What do you see in uh? In a bashir Well?

930
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 2: I kind of love Pritzker's game. He's game for a

931
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,919
Speaker 2: for a rhetorical fight, and he's good at it. He's

932
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 2: really good at it. There was a I first kind

933
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 2: of tweaked out how good he was at that graduation

934
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: speech he gave which kind of went viral where he says,

935
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 2: if you don't don't follow idiots, right, that's that That's

936
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 2: one rule of life that he was giving the graduates.

937
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: And he says, how do you know an idiot? Look

938
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 2: for the cruel person in the room. That's the idiot.

939
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: And I kind of loved that whole kind of brawling.

940
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 2: Ham fisted Illinois politician I grew up in outside of Chicago,

941
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: you know, and uh, and kind of I like him

942
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 2: and I think he's you know, he's ready for a

943
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 2: fight now. He's also a billionaire. He's very liberal on

944
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 2: social issues in some ways, to the left of Americans.

945
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 2: But he's a skilled order and can self fund, I guess,

946
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 2: which is also important. But I kind of like the

947
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 2: fact that he's a happy warrior in the fight, you know,

948
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 2: and I think people appreciate that that happy warrior. I

949
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 2: describe myself as a Hubert Humphrey Democrat. I'm quite sure

950
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 2: what that means except that I'm old. But he was

951
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 2: a hero in my family. My mom remembered the nineteen

952
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 2: forty eight Democratic Convention and the young mayor of Minneapolis,

953
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 2: Hubert Humphrey, calling for civil rights plank in the platform,

954
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 2: and she loved him. And he was a happy warrior.

955
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 2: He hit the campaign trail with the same upbeat energy

956
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 2: without backing Dawn down. Could fight for his people, could

957
00:58:56,120 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 2: fight for his positions with with cheer, good cheer, and bravery,

958
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: and I think people respond to that. Pritzker has a

959
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 2: little bit of that.

960
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: What about Bashir another another young governor, young governor? Obviously

961
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: he leads with his heart.

962
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 2: It seems to me moderate, maybe too moderate for where

963
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 2: the country is, Like we're in a fight.

964
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't like it.

965
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 2: I'm a mod' I'm a I like to I am

966
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 2: a member of the most despised tribe in American politics.

967
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 2: I'm a proud centrist. But right now this administration is

968
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 2: giving you the opportunity to be moderate. You have got

969
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 2: to stand up and say what is there factually in

970
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 2: front of us, which is an attempt at authoritarian takeover

971
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 2: of our system of government and a degrading of democratic

972
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 2: opportunity within it. And if you can't say that, then

973
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: I don't think you're going to win a democratic primary.

974
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 2: And Basher, I think while appeals to a lot of

975
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 2: those people in the great muddled middle that that still

976
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 2: runs the country.

977
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: I believe the people that will go back and forth.

978
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 2: And I'm not talking about the people are it self

979
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: declared independence. I'm talking about the people who steer the

980
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 2: ship of state ultimately with their instincts. I think they

981
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 2: want to see They will want to see someone stand

982
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 2: up to trump Ism with a stronger alternative than I

983
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 2: feel from Bashir. Right now, people want to fight their

984
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 2: right to want to fight. This needs to be fought against.

985
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 2: We're a perfect place to leave it there. Veteran ABC

986
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 2: news man Terry Moran and I use that designation, uh,

987
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 2: with with a lot of with a lot of intent. Yeah,

988
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 2: that was you know, whether it's Frank Reynolds, whether it's

989
01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 2: a Peter Channing's, you know, the intiger of that institution,

990
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 2: World News, World News Tonight, and you honored and met

991
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 2: it all the days.

992
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: That you work there. And I know that is a

993
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: long time watcher. And I mean fifty four, I was

994
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: watching ABC World News Tonight from age six, right all

995
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: the way all the way through, and you met the

996
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: you met the moment. You filled the highest ethical standards

997
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: of a worthy and noble profession and necessary one in

998
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: a democracy. And you're doing great stuff in an independent

999
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 1: media role, particularly when you're out there, you know, traveling

1000
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: around the country meeting people. And I hope you'll keep

1001
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: doing more of that. And what i'd say to everybody,

1002
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: you know, the almost three thousand people you know, we're

1003
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: with us this afternoon. You know, again, this is a

1004
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: very serious moment in this country's history. This is a

1005
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: very real crisis. What what Donald Trump was talking about

1006
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: today is without precedent in the modern history of the country.

1007
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: And it's right to be alarmed about it. Uh, it

1008
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: is right to be disturbed about it. It's right to

1009
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: be talking about it tonight at the at the kitchen table.

1010
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: And it's also right, uh to say to your neighbor

1011
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: and to your friend, that I'm an American and I'm

1012
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: not going to stand for it, and I'm going to

1013
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: do something about it, and to get engaged, get involved.

1014
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: Your rights do not come from MAGA, they do not

1015
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: come from Trump. They come from a higher place and

1016
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: a higher power. And uh, never forget that. But with that,

1017
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 1: you would find Terry Moran on substack. I urge you

1018
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: to do so. Subscribe to him there, follow him there.

1019
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: I'm Steve Schmid at the Warning. Thanks for joining this

1020
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 1: afternoon for another conversation. I appreciate it very much. Thanks.

1021
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: Take care. I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the Warning.

1022
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 3: I invite you to join this community where I promise

1023
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 3: to be honest, blunt and direct about what is happening

1024
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 3: in this country. America is in crisis. Follow and subscribe

1025
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 3: to this channel and on substack.

1026
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 1: Thank you,