WEBVTT - Is Early Retirement A Smart Goal? #638 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.400 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel Matt and today 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:06.480 we're asking the question is early retirement a smart goal? 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:30.240 We are talking about early retirements or retiring early, depending 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:32.080 I think we're going to refer I was realizing as 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.000 I was thinking through this episode, you've got the financial 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:40.080 independence retire early or is it financially independent retired early? 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.879 There's so many different ways of saying and that obviously 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.040 that's the acronym Fire, which I think a lot of 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.320 folks might have been introduced to the idea of early 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.440 retirement via Fire specifically, But there are all sorts of 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.080 different people in the Fire movement and different kind of 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:58.720 takes on retiring early. But yeah, we have had different 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:00.480 conversations about this in the past, but we want to 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:01.960 talk about a whole lot of different things when it 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.360 comes to retiring earlier, whether it's a good goal to have, 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.040 and then yeah, yeah, maybe how to skin that cat 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:08.760 if that's what you're going for. We like to talk 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:10.920 about you and I as we are planning and thinking 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.080 through the different topics we're going to discuss. We always 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.479 come up with different metaphors and examples, and I feel 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.800 like fire earlier retirement it's just one of those things 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:20.560 that folks have heard about. It's kind of like in 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.280 the background, it's in their subconscious They've seen maybe different 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.920 articles floating around, but they don't know exactly what it 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:28.920 is or how they should be thinking about it right now. 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:30.800 It kind of makes me think of AI, like that's 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.760 all the rage right now? And is it coming? Is 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:33.880 it come from a job or is it just a 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:35.520 cheap trick exactly? Is it a good thing? Is it 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.760 a bad thing? I don't know. But before you you 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:40.880 know one hundred percent and go after something and say 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:42.560 that this is going to solve all of our problems, 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:44.800 and in this case we're talking about early retirement, it 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.360 is worth thinking through the different ramifications that it might 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:50.840 have on your life. Yeah, we're going to talk about 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.320 it today with one hundred percent assurance. Chat chypt is 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:55.480 not going to solve all the problems avail us. It might, like, 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:57.720 you know, help on the edges. It might make some differences, 0:01:57.760 --> 0:01:59.960 but like it can't fix the pain in my back 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.800 or anything like that. Yeah, that's true, it won't. But 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:04.720 before we get to that, man, I've got a question 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.040 for you because I was talking with Kate the other day, 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:12.000 and she made me aware of these shoes. I'm pretty 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.040 sure they're buying a company called Golden Goose, which is 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.799 incredibly ironic, as listeners will we'll soon hear if they 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.200 already don't know what these shoes are all about. But 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:26.840 these are some really really expensive sneakers, right, And here's 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.400 a thing. I'm not against spending some money on some sneakers, right, like, 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.560 in particular, if they're really high quality shoes, or if 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.520 they have like a lifetime warranty, like no matter what, 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.320 just send them back in and we'll resol them for 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.400 you for the rest of your life, or if like 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.520 if there are specialty shoes, right. But no, they're just 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.280 for the most part, they're just normal looking white sneakers. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:51.040 But here's the kicker. They come pre manufactured with dirt 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:52.880 on there. I get, like, I think they just print 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:54.880 it onto the rubber. They just print it onto the 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:56.760 to the leather, make it look scuffed, to make it 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.680 look scuffed. These are normal looking shoes otherwise, and these 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.040 things cost upwards of four hundred bucks. I saw some 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.720 pairs are like I think six or seven hundred dollars 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.080 for these silly Golden Goose sneakers, But I wanted to 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:12.920 get your thoughts, like, what are your what are your thoughts? 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:14.480 I think you know my thoughts. I think you know 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.480 my thoughts. I think it's ridiculous and it just makes 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.680 me think of what is it like Neiman Marcus and 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.720 some of those kind of expensive retailers selling you pre 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.640 ripped jeans right sure that costs or with like paint 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.360 splatter all over them. And if you can do that 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.480 to your jeans yourself, if you want to, and you 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:32.480 can just buy a pair of that costs less up front, 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.040 and I, like you said, like, I'm willing to pay 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.800 more sometimes for nicer goods, Like my jeans aren't twenty 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.240 dollars jeans. I've found out early on that buying the 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.080 twenty dollars jeans meant I wasn't going to wear them, 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.960 and they became misshaping quickly. Yeah they'll shred. Yeah, So 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.320 I like you know, to buy I don't mind buying 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.320 one hundred dollars pair of jeans because I literally have 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.360 been wearing the same jeans for ten years, right, the 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.000 same pair of jeans, So I don't mind spending more 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:54.520 of them more or the same pair of jeans for 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.240 when you're straight. You can't wear them like all the 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:58.760 time if you were for time. I've got like three 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:00.800 pairs of jeans that I rotate, and one of them 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:02.760 I have had for a decade. But it's it's one 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.520 of those things where I'm just everyone's picturing like Joel's 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:09.400 ratty jeans and feeling bad for him. Yeah. No, I'll 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.240 get new jeans if I need him. Okay, I can, 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.000 I can make that happen. But no, I think this 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.360 is just kind of like it's really it's a attempt 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.600 to signal that you get the cool goods. That's that's 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.400 one hundred percent. So that's conspicuous consumption. Yeah right, that 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.359 like there is no additional value that you're paying for. 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:28.960 It's just proving that you have the funds available in 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.159 order to buy some of these these shoes. It's it's signaling. 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.359 And that's the part that feels wasteful, Like that's the 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:36.840 part and like I don't and that doesn't mean I 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:38.200 don't want to go to Walmart and get the ten 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.560 dollar pair of shoes. Okay, like a middle ground somewhere, 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:42.280 and again, like I don't want to yuck on someone 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.679 else's yum. But I have a hard time getting excited. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.560 I have a hard time getting behind someone who's gonna say, like, yes, 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:51.920 I'm gonna buy these shoes that intentionally come dirtied up, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:53.600 And like that's the other silly part, because if you 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.800 buy rip jeans, well that's a real rip. When it 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.960 comes to these sneakers, these shoes, not like rubbing real 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.120 dirt on there. It's just it's like it's it's predecided, 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.960 it's designed dirt and it's printed on there. It's okay, 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:12.119 what makes me think of Zoolander. It's like the Derelite campaign. Yes, okay. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.560 So one time my mom bought me some some Converse 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.240 All Stars some Chuck Taylor's Classic for my birthday because 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:21.320 I like Chucks. They're great, and they're a pretty inexpensive shoe, 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.600 like thirty five five bucks, right, depending on the making 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.480 model you're getting of Chucks. And she said they actually 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.479 came pre scuffed, and she's like, I cleaned them before 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.240 I gave them to you, because I thought that this 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:32.760 was like a flaw or something that I didn't know 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:34.120 if they were pre worn or whatever. And I was like, 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.799 I think that's they can't I don't know it was funny. Yeah, 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.000 are you sure that it wasn't just a returned pair? 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:41.520 It could have been, That's what I'm saying. I don't know. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:43.600 It's like getting goods on Amazon. Now you're getting more 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.080 and more things that you can tell somebody has like, yeah, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.080 oh they tried it on, like they didn't look worn 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:49.560 on the bottom. So I just like cleaned up the 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.080 white part real quickly. But you're like, oh, Mom, no, 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.520 I don't care. All the cool kids, there's sho's already scuffed, 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.359 like the hull scuff mom myself if I need to anyway, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.200 all that being said, if you are somebody who really 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.520 lacks those shoes, I'm certainly not going to hate on you. 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.880 But yeah, not my cup of tea, Yeah, exactly. All right, 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:07.960 matt Let's move on. Let's mention the beer we're having 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.000 on this episode. This one is called Ferris Coffee Imperial 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:13.440 Stout by New Park Brewing. This one was donated to 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.719 the show by listener Matthew. We'll get to our thoughts 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:17.480 on this one at the end of the episode. Yes, 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:19.279 but let's get into it. Let's ask the question, is 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.240 early retirement a smart goal? And we've all had someone 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.400 tell us to kick the tires before buying a car, 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.279 or to look before we leap, before we make a 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.000 big decision. They're all good advice. Yeah, they're all sorts 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.240 of like slogans that cautioned us to perform our due 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.520 diligence before we make a big decision. And I don't 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.720 know why, Matt, this got me thinking about the movie Cinderella, 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.960 and like the one from the eighties was the eighties, 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.040 the animated nose before that too, it was like nineteen 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.479 fifties maybe even was it. Yeah, it's really old. Yeah, 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:50.680 I guess that makes sense. Yeah. No, it's like a 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:52.599 super Bowl. It's like one of the original I remember 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.720 watching it as a kid. It was one of my favorites. 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.240 I want to say fifty seven. All about those mice, Yeah, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:06:59.920 I thought they were awesome. Okay, Well, here's the thing. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.080 It's a weird story when you actually stop and think 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.599 about it, right, the Cinderella and the Prince they danced 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.839 for one night and then he ends up sending his 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.080 goons around town to find the girl whose foot fits 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.720 the glass slippers perfectly normal so they can get married. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.280 It's like, well, dude, me thinks maybe you're gonna attached 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.200 a little too quickly. You don't even know her yet, 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:19.880 and she might not be who you think she is because, 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.480 like you said, Matt, she talks to animals. Okay, so 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.320 she could be a little whackadoodle in the brain. But 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:27.440 there's like a reason that you go on dates for 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.679 at least a few weeks before you propose, and hopefully 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.200 even longer than a few weeks. But sounds like looking 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.880 before you leap right, exactly. And so it's a matter 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.880 of due diligence really, when we're getting to know somebody, 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.360 you know, to ensure that the person isn't a psycho 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.360 before we commit to spending the rest of our lives 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.920 with them. And similarly, early retirement on its face, I 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.720 think can seem like the best pursuit. It can seem 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.240 like a good idea and a worthy goal, and it 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.520 might be for some folks out there, but we would 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.640 say not before thinking it through on a bunch of fronts. 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.400 That's right. Yeah, you might find out that earlier detirement 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.400 is the perfect pursuit for you. More power to you, 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.520 but definitely do your homework before deciding that this is 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.120 the end goal that you want to achieve because it's 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.640 going to come with some significant ramifications. Not quite as 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:13.680 significant as you know that the person you choose to 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.040 marry if you're the prince, but if you're going after 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:18.880 your life, let's be honest, she was a catch, She's 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.880 a great girl. Sooner. If you're going all in though 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:26.520 on early retirement, before performing that due diligence, you might 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.400 be in a world of hurt. So we're going to 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.160 offer our thoughts on how to decide if retiring sooner 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.520 than your peers is going to be a good goal 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.040 for you. We're going to tackle a number of questions, 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:42.000 both like financial and math related, but also questions kind 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.640 of more on the personal front as well. And we 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.000 think that these factors, Considering all these factors and answering 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.120 these questions are going to help you to decide if 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.200 early retirement is going to be a goal worth pursuing. Yeah, 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:54.600 and I think some folks might get at the end 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.559 of this episode and they might say, Hey, that sounds 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.480 like my cup of tea, like I want to join 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:00.960 the early retirement movement, And other might say, yeah, it 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.320 doesn't sound like it's really my jam, But they can 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.040 go either way. I think like Internet articles often make 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.880 it sound though Matt like early retirement is the bee's knees, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.400 and I think that's true. That's part of the problem 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.120 is they're they're selling a bill of goods or making 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.199 it sound like it's just the greatest things in sliced bread. 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.360 And there was a recent headline I saw on market 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.040 Watch and it read this fire couple retired at the 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.800 age of twenty nine. For them, it's always the weekend. 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.880 And boy, that sounds appealing. I read that l twenty nine, 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.960 I'm ten years too late to pursue this goal and 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.400 what a slacker. And weekends are awesome, Like, I'm not 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.600 against weekends. I have a lot of good good times 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.040 on the weekends. We go for family hikes almost every weekend, 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:43.880 or bike rides, or we get out in nature. We 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.600 do lots of great stuff together, we make awesome memories. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.480 But do I really want my life to be like 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.120 one long, perpetual weekend. Do most folks want that? Maybe? 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.720 Maybe not? Like maybe the weekend is so great because 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.680 it marks the end of a successful week, not because 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.760 it's never ending. And it just makes me think of 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.520 like the another movie reference here, Groundhog Day, right, and 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.079 another classic from the fifties, right, Yeah, that was actually 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.040 from the eighties. Yeah, and it's just a great film, 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.600 of course. But if you recall the movie Matt Bill Murray, 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.360 he starts to try to kill himself in multiple ways 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.480 because you know, living the same day over and over 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.800 actually starts to get kind of boring and ultimately kind 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:29.200 of depressing. So I don't know's it makes me think 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.160 of that, Like, these are the kind of things that 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.920 we want our listeners to consider before they say, oh, 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.880 early retirement weekends and never end, sign me up. Like, 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.960 the reality is that most folks who decide to pursue 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.920 this lifestyle, they're you know, they aren't even doing it 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.320 with the goal of perpetual weekends, right. Often, they're they're 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.240 doing it with, like I would say, an even worse goal. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.360 They're trying to run away from a job than they eat. 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:52.959 Yeah no, I totally agree, man, Yeah, Like they think 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:56.079 her job sucks. And it seems that like that, that's 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.319 one of the top reasons that we see folks gravitate 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.400 poards earlier retirement as ultimate goal. They are running away 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:05.079 from something, not necessarily running towards something. But if that's 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:06.880 the case, though, you know if that's the main reason. 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.680 We feel like there are other potentially more appropriate solutions 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:13.480 that folks might want to pursue, which will discuss later 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.320 in the episode. But for others, it can be dreams 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.520 of what retired life could look like, right, And it's 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:21.640 not a bad idea to have a picture of retirement 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:26.080 for yourself, but it is important to be grounded in reality, 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.360 because I think the fantasy of retirement can often be 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.640 more delusional than an actionable plan. And you know, Joel 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.400 earlier a few weeks ago in episode six twenty three, 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:38.679 we talked about ways that you can maximize your income. 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.080 We are all four folks trying to find ways to 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.000 maybe leave an employer that isn't going to be great 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.760 for their career, or maybe that doesn't have a the 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.800 most healthy environment. But simultaneously, I think for a lot 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.400 of folks, just by changing their how it is that 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.160 they view their work, right, Like, I'm just talking about 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.240 more of like a like a mindset shift that might 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.480 take place, or just displaying more ownership. I think these 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.240 are ways that you can demonstrate to yourself that it's 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.480 not that my job sucks. I've just been thinking about 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.960 it wrong. This entire time. I think that could be 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.240 in just a very simple way to help folks to 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.520 realize that, oh wow, my job actually doesn't suck all 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.840 that bad. I've just been thinking about it incorrectly. What 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.800 makes me think of the show Dirty Jobs with micro 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:20.960 and how he would always he would talk to people 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.040 who had what a lot of us would consider the 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.160 worst job, absolute worst, dirtiest worst job, the chrommiest dirtiest jobs, 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.040 climbing through sewers, and I mean all sorts of nasty stuff. 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.640 I didn't really watch the show myself, but from what 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.840 I could tell, a lot of people that had those 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.600 jobs seem to take great pride in their profession. And 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:39.400 I think you're right. A lot of it is kind 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.000 of a mindset shift about how we view our work. 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:43.400 And it doesn't mean that you can't get out of 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.079 a and shouldn't get out of a toxic work situation 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.120 or look to find something better in the future. I 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:53.200 think growth is important and that matters too, But you're right. 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:57.400 I think just running away though from work altogether, is 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.959 like a bad motivation when it comes to pursuing early retirement. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.480 And let's talk about the origins of retirement and earlier 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.880 retirement for a second map, because like, retirement is a 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:09.120 pretty new concept overall, and so, yeah, where did it 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.240 come from? And how long has this been like a 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.120 pursuit well, government financial support for the elderly. It's started 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:19.280 in the eighteen hundreds, late eighteen hundreds in a country, 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.599 former country called Prussia, right, And when social Security was 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.720 instituted in the United States, that was like not none 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.040 to like nineteen thirty five, right, Matt, when the Social 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.800 Security Act was passed, and it had a completely different goal, 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:35.559 not to fund decades of retirement, decades of leisure time, 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.480 but really to aid the most vulnerable folks in our 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.880 society who ended up living longer than the average lifespan. 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.840 So that concept of moving to Florida for three decades 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.960 and walking the beach with your significant other, like that 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.680 is you're going to stay with your metal detect that too, 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.200 that might be your significant other some day. That's that's 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:56.720 that's more of my speed. I could see you fallen 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.880 in love with one of those inanimate objects like scooping 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:03.160 around for lost rings and watches. But some people like 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.880 I just want to make it clear, like we are 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.720 less than one hundred years or moved even from the 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.640 institution of social security as a concept, and so the 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:16.440 modern idea that we have of retirement is so new, right, 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:20.680 and we're living longer now than ever before, and that's 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.360 why I think social security has more of an impact 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.840 on those retirement years. But that's also part of the 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.600 reason that social security is bound to become insolvent. We 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:32.680 haven't fixed any of the problems. It's pretty hard to 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:37.000 fund decades worth of leisure for a huge segment of 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.280 the population, So it's becoming untenable in our politicians don't 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:41.960 don't seem to want to do anything about it. They 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:43.640 don't seem to want to fix the problem. And we 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.560 talked talked about that back in the episode four thirteen, Matt, 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.160 something's got to give. Nobody wants to address the elephant 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.400 in the room. I think it's possible to find a 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.880 way to make social security sustainable, but it's easier said 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.920 than done, especially when you're talking about elected officials who 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.720 don't really have any desire to do anything. They just 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.760 want to grandstand about it. Sure well, they're not willing 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.920 to do anything about it because, like nobody wants to 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:07.160 be the grown up in the room. It's it's like 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.280 it makes me think of like when you're a parent 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:10.760 and you've got kids and all they want to do 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.000 is eat candy, But you have to be the parent 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:14.840 that says, no, you can't just sit there and watch 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.080 TV and eat candy. You go to your room, clean 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.240 your room, do your homework. And also, you're gonna eat 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.560 real food. You're gonna combat right now. You're gonna eat 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.320 some protein and some vegetables, some fruit. You're gonna have 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.680 a real meal at this point. That's what needs to 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.120 happen with Social Security. But I think that that kind 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.560 of just reframing and making it helping our listeners understand 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.840 that this idea of retirement hasn't been around for hundreds 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.960 of years. It's still pretty brand spanking new to think 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.400 about it. And now it's kind of like expected, well, 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.400 sure I need to say for forty years of retirement, 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.560 and now the early retirement community is saying, no, we 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.160 want to save for like sixty or seventy years of retirement, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.320 which is even newer. Sure, yeah, it is much like 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.480 it seems like it's almost something that's as old as 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.640 like the United States, but yeah, much much younger, yeah 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.600 than the founding of our country. It's a novel concept. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.560 And actually nineteen ninety two feels like the first time 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.240 that early retirement became a popular concept. That's when the 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.120 book Your Money or Your Life came out Vicki Robbins 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.320 and Joe I Forget Joe's Lost Joe Dominguez. And actually 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.800 it wasn't really until twelve twenty thirteen, ten years ago. 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.320 This was not that long ago that different blogs and 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.320 podcasts and different books on the subject of early retirement 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.760 started to be released. And so, yes, traditional retirement is 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.640 pretty young. Early retirement is honestly, it's still in its infancy, 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.000 and it's important to realize that because a lot of 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.000 things are still unsettled within the world of early retirement. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.880 For instance, can you work at all and still be retired? 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.000 A lot of fire folks still make money doing different 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.160 fun projects or starting their own businesses things on the side, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.200 But that's not the traditional view of retirement. Mats And 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.720 would say exactly, so it's different, right, like, are you 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.400 wanting to quit work to pursue your own thing or 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.080 are you looking to travel and perpetuity? Does that make 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.720 it a more legitimate retirement? Are you actually retired. If 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.000 you're still making money or at that point are you, 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.480 are you considered to be semi retired. I think that's 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:09.080 one of the criticisms of early retirements, and a lot 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.159 of folks have voiced that. Actually, somebody who reached out 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.520 to us because we highlighted a friend of the show, 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.399 Rachel Richards, in our newsletter. We talked about how she 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:20.639 retired early, but simultaneously she's busier than ever, which I 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.720 see the maybe we shouldn't have turned it in that way, 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.360 because honestly, what Rachel has done, she certainly shifted careers, 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.920 but she's still working. It's more I think she's working 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.160 on her third book as we speak, and she's probably 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.080 working harder than ever. But it's more entrepreneurship in her 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.399 case than you know what oftentimes folks considered to be 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.679 early retirement. I think when we talk about earlier retirement, 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:45.000 oftentimes people are saying, like, I could afford to live 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.400 a meager lifestyle and don't wouldn't have to work if 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:50.960 I didn't want to. But most people choose to do 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.679 something meaningful with their time because that's kind of what 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:56.040 humans were made to do in a lot of ways, 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.640 and we'll talk about that as well on today's episode. 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.560 But there's also just different kinds of early retirement, right, 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.639 So it's the definition is hard to understand, But then 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.040 there's different monikers that have been created for a bunch 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.080 of specific routes that you can take on the path 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.960 to early retirement. And these different routes attempt to acknowledge 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.840 the reality that it's going to look different depending on 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.439 your goals, your age, and your level of financial preparedness. 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:21.960 For example, coast fire is when you've got a healthy 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.199 chunk set aside in your portfolio and then you can 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.760 take your foot off the gas. So basically, for let's 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.560 say ten to fifteen years, you're saving a ton nose 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.800 to the grindstone mentality. You're frontloading the sacrifice in a 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.240 major way in those early years, which gives you more 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.200 options to increase your spending or just to quit completely 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:44.280 your job or quit saving for retirement at least after 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.840 that initial phase, that initial stint of frontloading those contributions. 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.880 Or there's like lean fire adherents who mostly just want 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.199 to amass enough to squeak by right there, ultra frugalites, 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.920