1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel Matt and today 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: we're asking the question is early retirement a smart goal? 3 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: We are talking about early retirements or retiring early, depending 4 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: I think we're going to refer I was realizing as 5 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: I was thinking through this episode, you've got the financial 6 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: independence retire early or is it financially independent retired early? 7 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: There's so many different ways of saying and that obviously 8 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: that's the acronym Fire, which I think a lot of 9 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: folks might have been introduced to the idea of early 10 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: retirement via Fire specifically, But there are all sorts of 11 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: different people in the Fire movement and different kind of 12 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: takes on retiring early. But yeah, we have had different 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: conversations about this in the past, but we want to 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: talk about a whole lot of different things when it 15 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: comes to retiring earlier, whether it's a good goal to have, 16 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: and then yeah, yeah, maybe how to skin that cat 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: if that's what you're going for. We like to talk 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: about you and I as we are planning and thinking 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: through the different topics we're going to discuss. We always 20 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: come up with different metaphors and examples, and I feel 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: like fire earlier retirement it's just one of those things 22 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: that folks have heard about. It's kind of like in 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: the background, it's in their subconscious They've seen maybe different 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: articles floating around, but they don't know exactly what it 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: is or how they should be thinking about it right now. 26 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: It kind of makes me think of AI, like that's 27 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: all the rage right now? And is it coming? Is 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: it come from a job or is it just a 29 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: cheap trick exactly? Is it a good thing? Is it 30 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: a bad thing? I don't know. But before you you 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: know one hundred percent and go after something and say 32 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: that this is going to solve all of our problems, 33 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: and in this case we're talking about early retirement, it 34 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: is worth thinking through the different ramifications that it might 35 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: have on your life. Yeah, we're going to talk about 36 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: it today with one hundred percent assurance. Chat chypt is 37 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: not going to solve all the problems avail us. It might, like, 38 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: you know, help on the edges. It might make some differences, 39 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: but like it can't fix the pain in my back 40 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: or anything like that. Yeah, that's true, it won't. But 41 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: before we get to that, man, I've got a question 42 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: for you because I was talking with Kate the other day, 43 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: and she made me aware of these shoes. I'm pretty 44 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: sure they're buying a company called Golden Goose, which is 45 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: incredibly ironic, as listeners will we'll soon hear if they 46 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: already don't know what these shoes are all about. But 47 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: these are some really really expensive sneakers, right, And here's 48 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: a thing. I'm not against spending some money on some sneakers, right, like, 49 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: in particular, if they're really high quality shoes, or if 50 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: they have like a lifetime warranty, like no matter what, 51 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: just send them back in and we'll resol them for 52 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: you for the rest of your life, or if like 53 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: if there are specialty shoes, right. But no, they're just 54 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: for the most part, they're just normal looking white sneakers. 55 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: But here's the kicker. They come pre manufactured with dirt 56 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: on there. I get, like, I think they just print 57 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: it onto the rubber. They just print it onto the 58 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: to the leather, make it look scuffed, to make it 59 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: look scuffed. These are normal looking shoes otherwise, and these 60 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: things cost upwards of four hundred bucks. I saw some 61 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: pairs are like I think six or seven hundred dollars 62 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: for these silly Golden Goose sneakers, But I wanted to 63 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: get your thoughts, like, what are your what are your thoughts? 64 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: I think you know my thoughts. I think you know 65 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: my thoughts. I think it's ridiculous and it just makes 66 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: me think of what is it like Neiman Marcus and 67 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: some of those kind of expensive retailers selling you pre 68 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: ripped jeans right sure that costs or with like paint 69 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: splatter all over them. And if you can do that 70 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: to your jeans yourself, if you want to, and you 71 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: can just buy a pair of that costs less up front, 72 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: and I, like you said, like, I'm willing to pay 73 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: more sometimes for nicer goods, Like my jeans aren't twenty 74 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: dollars jeans. I've found out early on that buying the 75 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: twenty dollars jeans meant I wasn't going to wear them, 76 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: and they became misshaping quickly. Yeah they'll shred. Yeah, So 77 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: I like you know, to buy I don't mind buying 78 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: one hundred dollars pair of jeans because I literally have 79 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: been wearing the same jeans for ten years, right, the 80 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: same pair of jeans, So I don't mind spending more 81 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: of them more or the same pair of jeans for 82 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: when you're straight. You can't wear them like all the 83 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: time if you were for time. I've got like three 84 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: pairs of jeans that I rotate, and one of them 85 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: I have had for a decade. But it's it's one 86 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: of those things where I'm just everyone's picturing like Joel's 87 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: ratty jeans and feeling bad for him. Yeah. No, I'll 88 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: get new jeans if I need him. Okay, I can, 89 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: I can make that happen. But no, I think this 90 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: is just kind of like it's really it's a attempt 91 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: to signal that you get the cool goods. That's that's 92 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: one hundred percent. So that's conspicuous consumption. Yeah right, that 93 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: like there is no additional value that you're paying for. 94 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: It's just proving that you have the funds available in 95 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: order to buy some of these these shoes. It's it's signaling. 96 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: And that's the part that feels wasteful, Like that's the 97 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: part and like I don't and that doesn't mean I 98 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: don't want to go to Walmart and get the ten 99 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: dollar pair of shoes. Okay, like a middle ground somewhere, 100 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: and again, like I don't want to yuck on someone 101 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,679 Speaker 1: else's yum. But I have a hard time getting excited. 102 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: I have a hard time getting behind someone who's gonna say, like, yes, 103 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy these shoes that intentionally come dirtied up, 104 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: And like that's the other silly part, because if you 105 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: buy rip jeans, well that's a real rip. When it 106 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: comes to these sneakers, these shoes, not like rubbing real 107 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: dirt on there. It's just it's like it's it's predecided, 108 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: it's designed dirt and it's printed on there. It's okay, 109 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,119 Speaker 1: what makes me think of Zoolander. It's like the Derelite campaign. Yes, okay. 110 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: So one time my mom bought me some some Converse 111 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: All Stars some Chuck Taylor's Classic for my birthday because 112 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: I like Chucks. They're great, and they're a pretty inexpensive shoe, 113 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: like thirty five five bucks, right, depending on the making 114 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: model you're getting of Chucks. And she said they actually 115 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: came pre scuffed, and she's like, I cleaned them before 116 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: I gave them to you, because I thought that this 117 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: was like a flaw or something that I didn't know 118 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: if they were pre worn or whatever. And I was like, 119 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,799 Speaker 1: I think that's they can't I don't know it was funny. Yeah, 120 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: are you sure that it wasn't just a returned pair? 121 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: It could have been, That's what I'm saying. I don't know. 122 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: It's like getting goods on Amazon. Now you're getting more 123 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: and more things that you can tell somebody has like, yeah, 124 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: oh they tried it on, like they didn't look worn 125 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: on the bottom. So I just like cleaned up the 126 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: white part real quickly. But you're like, oh, Mom, no, 127 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: I don't care. All the cool kids, there's sho's already scuffed, 128 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: like the hull scuff mom myself if I need to anyway, 129 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: all that being said, if you are somebody who really 130 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: lacks those shoes, I'm certainly not going to hate on you. 131 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, not my cup of tea, Yeah, exactly. All right, 132 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: matt Let's move on. Let's mention the beer we're having 133 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: on this episode. This one is called Ferris Coffee Imperial 134 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: Stout by New Park Brewing. This one was donated to 135 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: the show by listener Matthew. We'll get to our thoughts 136 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: on this one at the end of the episode. Yes, 137 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: but let's get into it. Let's ask the question, is 138 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: early retirement a smart goal? And we've all had someone 139 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: tell us to kick the tires before buying a car, 140 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: or to look before we leap, before we make a 141 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: big decision. They're all good advice. Yeah, they're all sorts 142 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: of like slogans that cautioned us to perform our due 143 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: diligence before we make a big decision. And I don't 144 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: know why, Matt, this got me thinking about the movie Cinderella, 145 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: and like the one from the eighties was the eighties, 146 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: the animated nose before that too, it was like nineteen 147 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: fifties maybe even was it. Yeah, it's really old. Yeah, 148 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: I guess that makes sense. Yeah. No, it's like a 149 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: super Bowl. It's like one of the original I remember 150 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: watching it as a kid. It was one of my favorites. 151 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: I want to say fifty seven. All about those mice, Yeah, 152 00:06:58,279 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: I thought they were awesome. Okay, Well, here's the thing. 153 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: It's a weird story when you actually stop and think 154 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: about it, right, the Cinderella and the Prince they danced 155 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: for one night and then he ends up sending his 156 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: goons around town to find the girl whose foot fits 157 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: the glass slippers perfectly normal so they can get married. 158 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: It's like, well, dude, me thinks maybe you're gonna attached 159 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: a little too quickly. You don't even know her yet, 160 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: and she might not be who you think she is because, 161 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, she talks to animals. Okay, so 162 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: she could be a little whackadoodle in the brain. But 163 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: there's like a reason that you go on dates for 164 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 1: at least a few weeks before you propose, and hopefully 165 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: even longer than a few weeks. But sounds like looking 166 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: before you leap right, exactly. And so it's a matter 167 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: of due diligence really, when we're getting to know somebody, 168 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: you know, to ensure that the person isn't a psycho 169 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: before we commit to spending the rest of our lives 170 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: with them. And similarly, early retirement on its face, I 171 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: think can seem like the best pursuit. It can seem 172 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: like a good idea and a worthy goal, and it 173 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: might be for some folks out there, but we would 174 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: say not before thinking it through on a bunch of fronts. 175 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, you might find out that earlier detirement 176 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: is the perfect pursuit for you. More power to you, 177 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: but definitely do your homework before deciding that this is 178 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: the end goal that you want to achieve because it's 179 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: going to come with some significant ramifications. Not quite as 180 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: significant as you know that the person you choose to 181 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: marry if you're the prince, but if you're going after 182 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: your life, let's be honest, she was a catch, She's 183 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: a great girl. Sooner. If you're going all in though 184 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: on early retirement, before performing that due diligence, you might 185 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: be in a world of hurt. So we're going to 186 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: offer our thoughts on how to decide if retiring sooner 187 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: than your peers is going to be a good goal 188 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: for you. We're going to tackle a number of questions, 189 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: both like financial and math related, but also questions kind 190 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: of more on the personal front as well. And we 191 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: think that these factors, Considering all these factors and answering 192 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: these questions are going to help you to decide if 193 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: early retirement is going to be a goal worth pursuing. Yeah, 194 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: and I think some folks might get at the end 195 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: of this episode and they might say, Hey, that sounds 196 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: like my cup of tea, like I want to join 197 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: the early retirement movement, And other might say, yeah, it 198 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like it's really my jam, But they can 199 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: go either way. I think like Internet articles often make 200 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: it sound though Matt like early retirement is the bee's knees, 201 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: and I think that's true. That's part of the problem 202 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: is they're they're selling a bill of goods or making 203 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: it sound like it's just the greatest things in sliced bread. 204 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: And there was a recent headline I saw on market 205 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: Watch and it read this fire couple retired at the 206 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: age of twenty nine. For them, it's always the weekend. 207 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: And boy, that sounds appealing. I read that l twenty nine, 208 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: I'm ten years too late to pursue this goal and 209 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: what a slacker. And weekends are awesome, Like, I'm not 210 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: against weekends. I have a lot of good good times 211 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: on the weekends. We go for family hikes almost every weekend, 212 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: or bike rides, or we get out in nature. We 213 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: do lots of great stuff together, we make awesome memories. 214 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: But do I really want my life to be like 215 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: one long, perpetual weekend. Do most folks want that? Maybe? 216 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: Maybe not? Like maybe the weekend is so great because 217 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: it marks the end of a successful week, not because 218 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: it's never ending. And it just makes me think of 219 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: like the another movie reference here, Groundhog Day, right, and 220 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: another classic from the fifties, right, Yeah, that was actually 221 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: from the eighties. Yeah, and it's just a great film, 222 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: of course. But if you recall the movie Matt Bill Murray, 223 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: he starts to try to kill himself in multiple ways 224 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: because you know, living the same day over and over 225 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: actually starts to get kind of boring and ultimately kind 226 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: of depressing. So I don't know's it makes me think 227 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: of that, Like, these are the kind of things that 228 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: we want our listeners to consider before they say, oh, 229 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: early retirement weekends and never end, sign me up. Like, 230 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: the reality is that most folks who decide to pursue 231 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: this lifestyle, they're you know, they aren't even doing it 232 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: with the goal of perpetual weekends, right. Often, they're they're 233 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: doing it with, like I would say, an even worse goal. 234 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: They're trying to run away from a job than they eat. 235 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: Yeah no, I totally agree, man, Yeah, Like they think 236 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: her job sucks. And it seems that like that, that's 237 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: one of the top reasons that we see folks gravitate 238 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: poards earlier retirement as ultimate goal. They are running away 239 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: from something, not necessarily running towards something. But if that's 240 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: the case, though, you know if that's the main reason. 241 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: We feel like there are other potentially more appropriate solutions 242 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: that folks might want to pursue, which will discuss later 243 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: in the episode. But for others, it can be dreams 244 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: of what retired life could look like, right, And it's 245 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: not a bad idea to have a picture of retirement 246 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: for yourself, but it is important to be grounded in reality, 247 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: because I think the fantasy of retirement can often be 248 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: more delusional than an actionable plan. And you know, Joel 249 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: earlier a few weeks ago in episode six twenty three, 250 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: we talked about ways that you can maximize your income. 251 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: We are all four folks trying to find ways to 252 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: maybe leave an employer that isn't going to be great 253 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: for their career, or maybe that doesn't have a the 254 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: most healthy environment. But simultaneously, I think for a lot 255 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: of folks, just by changing their how it is that 256 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: they view their work, right, Like, I'm just talking about 257 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: more of like a like a mindset shift that might 258 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: take place, or just displaying more ownership. I think these 259 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: are ways that you can demonstrate to yourself that it's 260 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: not that my job sucks. I've just been thinking about 261 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: it wrong. This entire time. I think that could be 262 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: in just a very simple way to help folks to 263 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: realize that, oh wow, my job actually doesn't suck all 264 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: that bad. I've just been thinking about it incorrectly. What 265 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: makes me think of the show Dirty Jobs with micro 266 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: and how he would always he would talk to people 267 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: who had what a lot of us would consider the 268 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: worst job, absolute worst, dirtiest worst job, the chrommiest dirtiest jobs, 269 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: climbing through sewers, and I mean all sorts of nasty stuff. 270 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: I didn't really watch the show myself, but from what 271 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: I could tell, a lot of people that had those 272 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: jobs seem to take great pride in their profession. And 273 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: I think you're right. A lot of it is kind 274 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: of a mindset shift about how we view our work. 275 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean that you can't get out of 276 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: a and shouldn't get out of a toxic work situation 277 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: or look to find something better in the future. I 278 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: think growth is important and that matters too, But you're right. 279 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: I think just running away though from work altogether, is 280 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: like a bad motivation when it comes to pursuing early retirement. 281 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: And let's talk about the origins of retirement and earlier 282 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: retirement for a second map, because like, retirement is a 283 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: pretty new concept overall, and so, yeah, where did it 284 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: come from? And how long has this been like a 285 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: pursuit well, government financial support for the elderly. It's started 286 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds, late eighteen hundreds in a country, 287 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,599 Speaker 1: former country called Prussia, right, And when social Security was 288 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: instituted in the United States, that was like not none 289 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: to like nineteen thirty five, right, Matt, when the Social 290 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: Security Act was passed, and it had a completely different goal, 291 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: not to fund decades of retirement, decades of leisure time, 292 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: but really to aid the most vulnerable folks in our 293 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: society who ended up living longer than the average lifespan. 294 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: So that concept of moving to Florida for three decades 295 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: and walking the beach with your significant other, like that 296 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: is you're going to stay with your metal detect that too, 297 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: that might be your significant other some day. That's that's 298 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: that's more of my speed. I could see you fallen 299 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: in love with one of those inanimate objects like scooping 300 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: around for lost rings and watches. But some people like 301 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: I just want to make it clear, like we are 302 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: less than one hundred years or moved even from the 303 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: institution of social security as a concept, and so the 304 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: modern idea that we have of retirement is so new, right, 305 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: and we're living longer now than ever before, and that's 306 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: why I think social security has more of an impact 307 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: on those retirement years. But that's also part of the 308 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: reason that social security is bound to become insolvent. We 309 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: haven't fixed any of the problems. It's pretty hard to 310 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: fund decades worth of leisure for a huge segment of 311 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: the population, So it's becoming untenable in our politicians don't 312 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: don't seem to want to do anything about it. They 313 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: don't seem to want to fix the problem. And we 314 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: talked talked about that back in the episode four thirteen, Matt, 315 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: something's got to give. Nobody wants to address the elephant 316 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: in the room. I think it's possible to find a 317 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: way to make social security sustainable, but it's easier said 318 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: than done, especially when you're talking about elected officials who 319 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: don't really have any desire to do anything. They just 320 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: want to grandstand about it. Sure well, they're not willing 321 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: to do anything about it because, like nobody wants to 322 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: be the grown up in the room. It's it's like 323 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: it makes me think of like when you're a parent 324 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: and you've got kids and all they want to do 325 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: is eat candy, But you have to be the parent 326 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: that says, no, you can't just sit there and watch 327 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: TV and eat candy. You go to your room, clean 328 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: your room, do your homework. And also, you're gonna eat 329 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: real food. You're gonna combat right now. You're gonna eat 330 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: some protein and some vegetables, some fruit. You're gonna have 331 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: a real meal at this point. That's what needs to 332 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: happen with Social Security. But I think that that kind 333 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: of just reframing and making it helping our listeners understand 334 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: that this idea of retirement hasn't been around for hundreds 335 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: of years. It's still pretty brand spanking new to think 336 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: about it. And now it's kind of like expected, well, 337 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: sure I need to say for forty years of retirement, 338 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: and now the early retirement community is saying, no, we 339 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: want to save for like sixty or seventy years of retirement, 340 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: which is even newer. Sure, yeah, it is much like 341 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: it seems like it's almost something that's as old as 342 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: like the United States, but yeah, much much younger, yeah 343 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: than the founding of our country. It's a novel concept. 344 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: And actually nineteen ninety two feels like the first time 345 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: that early retirement became a popular concept. That's when the 346 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: book Your Money or Your Life came out Vicki Robbins 347 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: and Joe I Forget Joe's Lost Joe Dominguez. And actually 348 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't really until twelve twenty thirteen, ten years ago. 349 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: This was not that long ago that different blogs and 350 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: podcasts and different books on the subject of early retirement 351 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: started to be released. And so, yes, traditional retirement is 352 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: pretty young. Early retirement is honestly, it's still in its infancy, 353 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: and it's important to realize that because a lot of 354 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: things are still unsettled within the world of early retirement. 355 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: For instance, can you work at all and still be retired? 356 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: A lot of fire folks still make money doing different 357 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: fun projects or starting their own businesses things on the side, 358 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: But that's not the traditional view of retirement. Mats And 359 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: would say exactly, so it's different, right, like, are you 360 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: wanting to quit work to pursue your own thing or 361 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: are you looking to travel and perpetuity? Does that make 362 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: it a more legitimate retirement? Are you actually retired. If 363 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: you're still making money or at that point are you, 364 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: are you considered to be semi retired. I think that's 365 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: one of the criticisms of early retirements, and a lot 366 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: of folks have voiced that. Actually, somebody who reached out 367 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: to us because we highlighted a friend of the show, 368 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: Rachel Richards, in our newsletter. We talked about how she 369 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: retired early, but simultaneously she's busier than ever, which I 370 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: see the maybe we shouldn't have turned it in that way, 371 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: because honestly, what Rachel has done, she certainly shifted careers, 372 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: but she's still working. It's more I think she's working 373 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: on her third book as we speak, and she's probably 374 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: working harder than ever. But it's more entrepreneurship in her 375 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: case than you know what oftentimes folks considered to be 376 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: early retirement. I think when we talk about earlier retirement, 377 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: oftentimes people are saying, like, I could afford to live 378 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: a meager lifestyle and don't wouldn't have to work if 379 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: I didn't want to. But most people choose to do 380 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: something meaningful with their time because that's kind of what 381 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: humans were made to do in a lot of ways, 382 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that as well on today's episode. 383 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: But there's also just different kinds of early retirement, right, 384 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: So it's the definition is hard to understand, But then 385 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: there's different monikers that have been created for a bunch 386 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: of specific routes that you can take on the path 387 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: to early retirement. And these different routes attempt to acknowledge 388 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: the reality that it's going to look different depending on 389 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: your goals, your age, and your level of financial preparedness. 390 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: For example, coast fire is when you've got a healthy 391 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: chunk set aside in your portfolio and then you can 392 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: take your foot off the gas. So basically, for let's 393 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: say ten to fifteen years, you're saving a ton nose 394 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: to the grindstone mentality. You're frontloading the sacrifice in a 395 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: major way in those early years, which gives you more 396 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: options to increase your spending or just to quit completely 397 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: your job or quit saving for retirement at least after 398 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: that initial phase, that initial stint of frontloading those contributions. 399 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: Or there's like lean fire adherents who mostly just want 400 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: to amass enough to squeak by right there, ultra frugalites, 401 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: and so those are the folks living in a trailer 402 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: in the woods, living on like twenty thousand dollars a year. Yeah, 403 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: they want to save just enough so that they can 404 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: do whatever they want. But whatever they want has to 405 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: be within massive amounts of reason because they have to 406 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: live frugally because they haven't saved enough to do much 407 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: beyond that. And so, yeah, when you're considering whether or 408 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: not early retirement is for you, it's not a one 409 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 1: size fits all proposition either, which makes it a little trickier. 410 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: You got to figure out what kind of early retirement 411 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: lifestyle you want to live first before you even start 412 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: to answer the other parts of that question. That's right. Yeah, 413 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: So not only are there different flavors of fire for 414 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: folks to consider, different types of early retirement that might 415 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: fit their situation the best, but we also have a 416 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: number of different questions that listeners can ask themselves. We've 417 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: got some specific like financial or number related questions, as 418 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: well as some non monetary factors that you need to 419 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: consider as well, and so we will get to all 420 00:19:50,440 --> 00:20:02,239 Speaker 1: of those right after this Alm, Matt, let's keep going. 421 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: We're talking about early retirement and whether it makes sense 422 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: for the average person, and it's definitely not for the 423 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: average person, right, because I think if you both those instances, 424 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: I thought you're going to say the average bear it 425 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: was like a yogi Yeah, well, did you ever watch 426 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: that one back in the day, a little bit hand 427 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: of bar I mean that was talking about old school 428 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: cartoon that was pretty old too. But we're falling into 429 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: this slight nostalgia of the mindset that we need to 430 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: probably stop. Yeah, well, I think it's it's definitely not 431 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: for the average person because you have to be very 432 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: different than average and have a different kind of mindset 433 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: if you're going to achieve early retirement. You can't just 434 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: kind of do what the average person does because like 435 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: when you look at the averages, the average person doesn't 436 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: have enough money to cover a four hundred dollar expense. 437 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: The average person doesn't have very much money in their 438 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: emergency fund, and their savings right, the average person savings 439 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: right is in a three percent range. So you got 440 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: to be way, way, way above average if you want 441 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: to achieve early retirement. I think you said average linerds 442 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 1: in times I probably said yeah, so yeah, don't be average. 443 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, let's talk about the the We're gonna talk 444 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: about the non financial aspect here. In the second of 445 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: what you're going to want to consider before you set 446 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: your course for earlier retirement. But first, let's talk about 447 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: some of the money mechanics for a minute. Matt and like, 448 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: how will people know if they have enough money set 449 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,479 Speaker 1: aside in order to retire early? And the math behind 450 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: early retirement is actually not terribly complicated. Mister money Mustache, 451 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: who's one of the foremost profits of the early retirement movement. 452 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: He has a post called the Shockingly Simple Math behind 453 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: Early Retirement, and he's right up until a point, like, 454 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: I think the math in his post is not terribly complex, 455 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: and at the simplest level, the number that you need 456 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: to have saved up inside your investment accounts is twenty 457 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: five times your annual expenses in order to not run 458 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: out of money, And mister money Mustache he assumes a 459 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: five percent rate of return after inflation and a four 460 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: percent annual withdrawal rate. I think the simplicity of that 461 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: post and of his approach are really great. On one hand, 462 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: they can help you visualize how few trade offs, just 463 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: a few trade offs can help you ratchet up your 464 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: ability to reach financial independence more quickly. But it's also 465 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: far from perfect given a bunch of other factors that 466 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: we need to consider here, that's right, factors that include 467 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: some of the different expenses that we experience in life. 468 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 1: And so a large part of knowing that you have 469 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: enough is to forecast your expenses. And a lot of 470 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: folks in the early retirement community are banking on certain 471 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: things just continually being true that they're just going to 472 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: remain stagnant. But it is hard to predict the future. 473 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: So inflation, for instance, that could throw a wrench in 474 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: someone's early retirement plans. It's something that we've seen recently, 475 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: especially if they're opting for a more more of the 476 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: lean fire, right, like more of that lean, hyper frugal lifestyle. 477 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: When eggs costs, you know, just double in price in 478 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: the course of a year, that's going to mess up 479 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: if you're lean fire and you're grocery bill just went 480 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: up fifty percent and that tight, Yeah, that's going to 481 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: have an impact. Yeah, a few months of those higher 482 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: costs here and there are going to add up if 483 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: you're trying to live on twenty five thousand dollars a year. 484 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: And so we think that if you really want to 485 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: retire before your peers, that it is important to save 486 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: more than you think you'll need. Don't just purely count 487 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: on that twenty five times your annual expenses. Again, it's 488 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: a great rule of thumb, it's a great place to start. 489 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: But we think it's it's good to have more on 490 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: hand than you need. That'll give you just additional options, 491 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: that will give you some peace of mind. Because hotter 492 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: inflation numbers, you know, they're still going to be tough 493 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: to endure in the moment, but they won't completely wreck 494 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: your personal finances. They won't completely throw you off track. 495 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: And I was kind of joking about egg prices like 496 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: wrecking someone's budget to the point where it completely derails 497 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 1: their early retirement. But that is, you know, people's grocery 498 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: bills have been affected in a major way obviously by 499 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: rising inflation. But something even more important that's going to 500 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: be a bigger line item in your budget is your 501 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: car insurance. And car insurance rates have been skyrocketing too. 502 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: People people in our Facebook group have been saying my 503 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: car insurance went up six hundred dollars this year or 504 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: something like that. It's been like, that's a lot of 505 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: money to absorb. Significant if you're not Yeah, if you're 506 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 1: not bringing in any money and you're trying to live 507 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: that early retirement lifestyle, and so it's important not just 508 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: to bank on a best case scenario. You have to 509 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: have kind of contingency plans right in place in case 510 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: inflation runs hot four years on end, and in case 511 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: you're you have to have that flexibility, right Matt, Like 512 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: you were just talking about additional options, And if you're 513 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: banking on things working out perfectly with that twenty five 514 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: x annual expensive scenario, you might be in for a 515 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: route awakening, a pretty sobering surprise. But let's talk about 516 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: something else that early retirement adherents often run up against, 517 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: and that's that they end up spending more than they 518 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: think they will once they do retire. JP Morgan did 519 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: a study of traditional retirees and they found that those 520 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: folks often experienced what they called a spending surge in 521 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: the two to three years post retirement. They often spent 522 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: on home renovations and fun trips, which makes sense like 523 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: early retirees are likely to experience something similar. What's the 524 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: point of bagging work if you're you aren't going to 525 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: exploit your newfound freedom and go on some cool trips 526 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: and do some excursions and stuff like that. You know, 527 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: of course, I would say people in the early retirement community, 528 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: they're likely to take those trips frugally, right, utilizing credit 529 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: card card points or hostile stays or you know, other 530 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: low cost methods that are going to ensure that these 531 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: trips don't cost them nearly as much as the average person. 532 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: Of course, they're certainly not guaranteed to spend more, but 533 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: it's something to be aware of because again, you know, 534 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: more padding, like you were talking about mat a larger 535 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: cash cushion can allow folks to increase spending for some 536 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: of those post retirement excursions without completely freaking out exactly. 537 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: And it makes it makes sense too from I guess 538 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: the traditional retiree standpoint, because oftentimes when you retire, you're 539 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 1: you're not anchored to a specific location from a geographic standpoint, 540 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: You're you're free, right like you are no longer tied 541 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: to a specific city, which I think oftentimes means that 542 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: you can then maybe move to wherever the kids are. 543 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: You can move to the beach, because you do want 544 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: to be on the beach with the same Scooper metal 545 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: detector or but either way, I think it is. It's 546 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: smart to not necessarily count on the most meager lean 547 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: existence possible, and it's something else to account for is 548 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: the high cost of healthcare. And so I'm specifically talking 549 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: about the premiums that we pay, that folks pay, but 550 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: the same is true if you end up using your coverage, 551 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: right if you actually get sick, or if you have 552 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: to go to the doctor or the hospital. Makes me 553 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: think of a quick, frugal or cheap that we could 554 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: do about me making an appointment Joal for a doctor's 555 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: visit that I resolved myself, But we won't go there. 556 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: Let's not. But there are there are certainly going to 557 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: be ways to reduce these costs, obviously, but they're not 558 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: full proof. So, for instance, there's going to be more 559 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: subsidies out there for folks who are buying policies on 560 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: at the website healthcare dot gov these days, but that 561 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: may not always be the case. Health sharing companies that 562 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: can be another option that can make sense for younger, 563 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: for healthier folks who are willing to self ensure, but 564 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: again it's not they're not for everyone because it's not 565 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: technically insurance. And actually it can be easier to get 566 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: cheaper healthcare if you plan to live overseas instead of 567 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: here in the US. Here in the States. But obviously, 568 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: like what if you don't want to go move to 569 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: Portugal with everyone else who's retiring and going abroad who 570 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: doesn't want to move to Portugal, that it's hard to 571 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: have a full proof plan because there's just no silver 572 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: bullet answer to the question of these ever increasing healthcare 573 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: costs that are going to fall squarely on our shoulders 574 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: once we've decided to quit our jobs. Yeah, that's definitely. 575 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I think if you're pursuing early retirement or 576 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: thinking about it and you haven't thought through the high 577 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: cost of healthcare, then you haven't been thinking about it 578 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: long enough, because that is going to be one of 579 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: those the most burdensome costs that falls squarely on your shoulders. 580 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: Like yeah, said, it's going to be all on you, 581 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: it is, simultaneously, it shouldn't. It's likely not going to 582 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: be prohibitively expensive, right because I think oftentimes in folks minds, 583 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: that is a roadblock and it keeps them from even 584 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: considering early retirement. But God, the encreased the numbers and 585 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: see how much it's going to cost you, because yes, 586 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: it's going to be expensive. It's in particular if you 587 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: haven't been with a company who I mean, there's a 588 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: lot of new companies out there who are covering like 589 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: virtually all of the healthcare costs of their employees. And 590 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: if that's you, you are in for a rude awakening. 591 00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: But for everyone else, you know, I don't know, if 592 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: you've been employed by a normal company where you've had 593 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: to flot some of those bills yourself, you might find 594 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: that it's actually not all that more expensive than it 595 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: was being employed. But I think, like you said, it 596 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: might not be right now because of the great subsidies 597 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: for so many people on the exchange. But those subsidies 598 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: could go away, and so so much depends on whose 599 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: in power and what sort of legislation pass when it 600 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: comes to how much you got to pay for the 601 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: health insurance that you want. Sure, Yeah, all right, Well, 602 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: let's talk about something else that early retires have to 603 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: think about, and that is sequence of returns risk. So 604 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: let's say you've got your expenses all figured out, you've 605 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: got enough invested to be able to retire, and you 606 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: can afford to spend a little extra and you can 607 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: afford now that expensive healthcare policy. Well, it's a bowl 608 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: market and your net worth is growing, But the market 609 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: could just as easily cool and like we saw a 610 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: stock market route in March of twenty twenty, right, and 611 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: last year was pretty rough for investors too, But what 612 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: if the market remained in a bear market holding pattern 613 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: for a few years? Right. Complicates things in particular for 614 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: early retirees who are attempting to live off their investment portfolio. 615 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: And of course, yes, the market has returned an average 616 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: of ten point two percent over the past fifty years, 617 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: but the fact is the market is unpredictable in the 618 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: short term and you might retire at the wrong time 619 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: into an era of low to no growth, which if 620 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: you're looking at predictions, which we don't really do. We 621 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: try to stay away from predictions most of the time, 622 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of predictions for meager growth in 623 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: the coming decade, and that could be a difficult thing 624 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: for regular retirees to endure, right, even if they have 625 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: social Security to provide some income mixed with those investments. 626 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: But if you retire at the wrong time, and you're 627 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: early retiring, you might find yourself attempting to draw down 628 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: four percent of your portfolio a year, year after year 629 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: at an inopportune time, draining some of that capital, straining 630 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: your ability to actually retire. Well, yeah, that's right, Yeah, 631 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,239 Speaker 1: that's sequence of returns or risk. Right. Imagine you're going 632 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: to live off of your portfolio over the next thirty years, 633 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: and imagine somewhere within those thirty years you're going to 634 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: have two years in a row of returns a negative 635 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: twenty percent. Well, if you experience those two years right 636 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: after you retire, you're gonna have much much less on 637 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: hand than if those two years were to occur at 638 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: the very tail end of those thirty years. It has 639 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: a massive impact on your lifestyle and your ability of 640 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: the ability of your portfolio to hold up over that 641 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: period of time. And this is also the fear that 642 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: keeps folks handcuffed to their jobs essentially, Right, Like, folks 643 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: say that the market could tink, So I'm just going 644 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: to work a little bit longer. But at some point 645 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,239 Speaker 1: we have to be able to confidently retire, you know, 646 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: even knowing that we can't predict the future, or even 647 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: knowing that our own health what that's going to be, 648 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: or what the market's going to do in our first 649 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: jobless decade or you know, first twenty years, thirty years. 650 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: But again, this is where having just maybe a little 651 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: bit of extra wiggle room and planning for more than 652 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: just that twenty five times your current expenses is going 653 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: to be helpful because you might not always want to 654 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: live as frugally as you're living now. You might think, well, na, 655 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm always going to want to do the van thing 656 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: and drive around the country. May not. You know, you 657 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: might do it for maybe you'll get the seven year itch, like, 658 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: maybe you'll do it for five to six seven years, 659 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: but at that point it might be something that you 660 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: want to move on from, especially the things that you 661 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: are okay within your twenties, Like I'm not I know, 662 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm about to broach forty, and I love being frugal, 663 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: but I'm not frugal in the same ways that I 664 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: wasn't my twenties exactly. I'm just not willing to travel 665 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: or to do some of the things that I would 666 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: have done back then to save a buck now exactly. 667 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: But you know, you may not need to save and 668 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: invest like a fat fire adherent right like where you're 669 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: just living high on the hog and you've got tons 670 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: of nice expenses that you're accounting for, but the lean 671 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: fire approaches, it's kind of scary. It's a little more 672 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: risky from our advantage point. Yeah, let's talk about something 673 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: else too that really inhibits your ability to retire early. Again, 674 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: not that it's not possible, and not that it's not 675 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: a decent goal for some people, but we're kind of 676 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: trying to. I guess we're like steel manning the case 677 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: against retiring early here right now. But a lot of 678 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: people would say, I want to retire early, but I'm 679 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: literally not old enough to withdraw from those retirement accounts yet, 680 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: which is a big deal. We talk a lot about 681 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: investing in those tax advantage retirement accounts of reasonable arguments. Yeah, 682 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: and so, well, how am I going to get my 683 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: money out of these things when the government tells me 684 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: I have to be fifty nine and a half, which 685 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: is still just odd. Why half? I don't get it. 686 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: But that is the age you need to be in 687 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: order to withdraw funds from those accounts in order to 688 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: tap them without having to pay penalties, right, And that 689 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: makes it even tougher to map out a strategy for 690 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: early retirement. While maximizing the most efficient buckets for investing 691 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: for your future. And that's why a whole lot of 692 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: early retirement adherents opt for a strategy that involves ROTH accounts, 693 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: so then you can pull those contributions out tax and 694 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: penalty free in averytime nice real estate, because that gives 695 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: you cash flow, not just seeing your investment grow, but 696 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: you're actually making returns on a month to month basis. 697 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: Taxable brokerage accounts you don't get the tax benefit, but 698 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: they're to the same extent, but they're more flexible HSA's. 699 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: They're somewhat flexible with maximum tax advantages in addition to 700 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: the regular old four oh one K or four or 701 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: three B that we love as well. There are ways 702 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: to take money out of those tax advantaged accounts even 703 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: before you hit retirement age, but they're not ideal, and 704 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: so coming up with a strategy that allows for additional 705 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: flexibility is key to making early retirement possible. It's not 706 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: as easy as just maxing out your four ohn K 707 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: for a decade and then leaving work right. You have 708 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: to think about how you're going to be able to 709 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: get the money out in an efficient manner that doesn't 710 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: come back to bite you and eat away at the 711 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: cash that you've so diligently saved up. So now I 712 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: think we've gone through a lot of money questions here, 713 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the financial aspects of what it looks 714 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: like to retire early and how there's a lot of 715 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: stuff you need to think through before you just all 716 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: of a sudden say yeah, that's my goal. I'm gonna 717 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: shoot for it, and you willy nilly kind of start 718 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: meandering down that path. You really need to kind of 719 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: have your ducks in a row from a money perspective 720 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: in order to do it well. But it's not just that, Right, 721 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the non monetary and personal aspects of 722 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: approaching early retirement. We'll get to some of those right 723 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: after this. All right, we are still asking the question 724 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: is early retirement a smart goal? And joll we just 725 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: covered a bunch of the different financial implications, some of 726 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: the different financial questions that we need to be asking ourselves. 727 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,439 Speaker 1: And we've looked at both sides of the equation. Right, 728 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: We've talked about the income side of the equation, different 729 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: fluctuations in the market and that how that can affect 730 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: our ability to retire early as well. As some of 731 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: the different expenses that we're all going to face. But 732 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: now let's talk about the non monetary side of the 733 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: earlier retirement lifestyle. Let's talk through some of those questions, 734 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: because we think it's worth asking a few of these 735 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: questions before going all in. One of those is to 736 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: think through your time and how it is that you're 737 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: going to be spending that right Like do you have 738 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: enough hobbies and interests to pursue if work is no 739 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: longer going to be a part of your day to 740 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: day And so in this in an effort to make 741 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: sure that you are prepared potentially for early retirement, we 742 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: want you to start thinking through what your idea day 743 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: is going to be like and what you're likely to 744 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: spend your time doing. A friend of the show West Moss, 745 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: he talks about how the happiest retirees out there, how 746 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: they have an average of three point six core pursuits 747 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: and these can be anything from like volunteering at a 748 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: local homeless shelter. It could be playing music, like playing 749 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: the piano. It could be wood working or pickleball. That's 750 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: the newest one, folks writing to the list, and he's 751 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,439 Speaker 1: actually got a core pursuit finder over at a site 752 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: that we'll link to in our show notes. But don't 753 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: expect to easily be able to find and then work 754 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: on these pursuits only once you've left your job. We 755 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: think it is important to prioritize them before you pull 756 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: the early retirement trigger. We want this process to be 757 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: something that feels more seamless, as opposed to a clear 758 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: partition where all right, that was life when I was 759 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: still working, and this was life after work. We want 760 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: it to be something that feels more just like more organic, 761 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: more blended. What you're saying, these people aren't just going 762 00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 1: to turn over a whole new leaf and become a 763 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: new person and find awesome new hobbies once they reach 764 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: retirement age. They got to start working on those things now. Yeah, 765 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,439 Speaker 1: makes me like you have to cultivate those interests. Yeah, 766 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: and so maybe you will like pickleball when you're retired, 767 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: But have you even gone out to try playing once? Now? 768 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: I mean if not, Like, I could see myself playing 769 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: pickaball retirement, but I've not played once yet, and so 770 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: I would want to make sure I gave that a 771 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: thorough go before I all of a sudden assum that 772 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: I was going to beat the pickleball court three days 773 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: a week. Makes me think of my mother in law. 774 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: She's retired and they ended up buying just a giant 775 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: RV to drive around in right afterwards, and they realized 776 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: pretty quickly we thought we were going to spend our 777 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: times r being around the country, but we didn't like 778 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: living out of an RV. And that happens to so 779 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: many people. Well that's why buying a used RV makes 780 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: so much sense, or because that happens to a lot 781 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: of folks, or even as like running one exactly given 782 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,479 Speaker 1: it as who week go and seeing how that works. 783 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: Think for you exactly, like think about how you're going 784 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: to spend your time, but don't just think a bit 785 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: in abstract terms. You use information from how you spend 786 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: your time now in a non retired state to say like, well, 787 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: could I do more of this than I'm doing? But 788 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: if you're just thinking, oh, i'd definitely see myself doing that, 789 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: well you don't really know until you've tried. And you 790 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: can picture an ideal lifestyle, but it might not be 791 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: what you think it is, and so you have to 792 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: kind of, yeah, give those things a go before, like 793 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: you said, pulling the trigger all together and saying I'm 794 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: retired early now I'm going to dive into these That 795 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: is not a great way to pursue it. Another question 796 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: to ask is like, what are my closest friends and 797 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: family going to be doing, because, if you're honest, many 798 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: of them will likely still be working if you opt 799 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,879 Speaker 1: to retire, let's say in your thirties or your early forties, Right, 800 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: are you going to be happy not going to work 801 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: when the folks you want to spend more time with 802 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: don't have the time and flexibility that you have. Maybe 803 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: you're at the bar but they're not, so then now 804 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: you've got a problem because now you're drinking alone, and 805 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: that's not a good thing. I think a lot of 806 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: people envision that they're going to be spending their early 807 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: retirement years with people that they love, but the truth 808 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: is that is harder to come by, right unless you're 809 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,919 Speaker 1: planning to save up enough to pay for their early 810 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: retirement too, which you're probably not. So those are the 811 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,359 Speaker 1: kind of things that need to be considered when we're 812 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: thinking about early retirement, well, like who are we going 813 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: to be spending time with and what are my days 814 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: going to look like? It's not that there aren't all 815 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: sorts of interesting pursuits that you can get into as 816 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: an early retiree. You just have to know what they're 817 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: going to be, and you have to have thought through 818 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: what that's going to look like before you decide to 819 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: quit your job and put in your two weeks notice. Totally. Yeah, 820 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: and I'll say, you kind of mentioned this earlier, but 821 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: it seems like we're kind of we're creating an argument 822 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: against earlier retirement. But to kind of flip that script 823 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: a little bit, I think it can be helpful to 824 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: maybe change how it is that we think about those 825 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: retirement years as well, because I think the vast majority 826 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: of folks they see like their working years, they see 827 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: that as like the main course, like that's the bulk, 828 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: like that's the feature film part of their life, and 829 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: they see retirement years essentially as like the leftovers. But 830 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: I think it can be helpful if we actually consider, 831 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: because what we're talking about here is a long period 832 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,439 Speaker 1: of time, given life expectancy, that we're going to continue living, 833 00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: and if we sort of flip that script a little 834 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: bit and then you those quote unquote retirement years as 835 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: the main course, I think that could essentially change how 836 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: it is not only that we view relationships, but also 837 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: some of the different hobbies that we pursue. Right Like, Basically, 838 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is nobody sees leftovers as 839 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: like a good thing except for me, perhaps I love leftovers. 840 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: But if you change how it is that you view 841 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 1: though you know, the literally we're talking about decades of 842 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: life here, I think that might allow some folks to realize, 843 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: oh well, I think it makes some of the detriment 844 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: years seem less daunting, essentially, because like we are talking 845 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: about a big chunk of time, right Like, although COVID 846 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 1: has impacted life expectancy in recent years, like, there's still 847 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: a good chance that healthy how many listeners are going 848 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: to live a really long time when you look at 849 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: the actuarial tables, Like if we're talking about a healthy 850 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,839 Speaker 1: sixty five year old couple, there is a forty six 851 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: percent chance that one of them is going to live 852 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: to the age of ninety five. So do the math there, 853 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: nine sixty five from ninety five, you're talking about three decades. 854 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: That's thirty years. And you know, like that's just what 855 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,720 Speaker 1: someone who is retiring at the quote unquote normal age 856 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: is going to have to account for. Earlier retirees might 857 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: have to plan for something like double that length of time, right, 858 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: and that only complicates the calculations from a financial standpoint. 859 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: But again, right now we're kind of talking about the 860 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: more the mental and psychological factors to think through. And 861 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: again this doesn't mean that early retirement is not a 862 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: worthwhile goal, but it does add some important context to 863 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,399 Speaker 1: the equation. But I do think that by viewing those 864 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: thirty years, or if you are an earlier retiree and 865 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about sixty years left, I still think that 866 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 1: there's a lot of life to live, right, Like not 867 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: to discount all the friends that we've made up until 868 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: the point that someone retires, and not to discount the 869 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: time that could have been spent pursuing some different hobbies 870 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: before you retire as well. So honestly, it makes me 871 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: think of a gentleman who is sort of like a mentor, 872 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: I guess, but he is a generation ahead of me. 873 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: He had kids that were closer to my age, and 874 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: I remember asking him one time if he felt that 875 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: the period of time that when he had his kids 876 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: at home, if those were like the most important years 877 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: and he was like, honestly, he's like, it's been awesome 878 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: being an empty nester, like having the kids away from home. 879 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: The time that my wife and I have been able 880 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: to spend together has been so incredibly sweet, and he 881 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: was still working a little bit. The work that I'm 882 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: now able to do has been so incredibly fulfilling and gratifying. 883 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: So I don't know, I guess when I'm just putting 884 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 1: an argument out there that the time after we quote 885 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: unquote retire can also be incredibly fulfilling if we don't 886 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: necessarily look at it like this leftover time. Yeah. Well, well, 887 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: and I think if we don't think about it in 888 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: just self indulgent terms, which I think a lot of 889 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: people think of retirement in those those ways, as well 890 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: as opposed to like productive years, it's very like, how 891 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 1: am I going to entertain myself and enjoy the time 892 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: that I have? And I think if we think about 893 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: it in terms of like service to others, I think 894 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 1: early retirement or regular retirement can take on new and 895 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: deeper meaning. Right, So totally, And let's talk about transitioning 896 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: into retirement because I think it's important to mention when 897 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,439 Speaker 1: we talk about earlier retirement. We're often talking about something 898 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: fairly extreme and feels like an all or nothing sort 899 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 1: of proposition. Well, I'm either retiring at thirty five, I'm 900 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: just gonna keep going tell him sixty five. But it 901 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be that, and it doesn't have to 902 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: be just this all or nothing sort of framework. And 903 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: before you decide that you never want to work again 904 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 1: and that there is no alternative you'll even consider, think 905 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,399 Speaker 1: about easing into retirement instead. And I think that could 906 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: look like cutting back on your hours at work now right, 907 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: This is actually a trend that's kind of starting to 908 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: happen in general these days. I think people are working 909 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: on average one to three percent less than they were 910 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, which I think is a great thing. 911 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: Like baby steps speaking exactly, take it back, just a 912 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,319 Speaker 1: little bit, work a couple hours less a week, he said, 913 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: all right, all right, yeah, And so if you're like somewhere, 914 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: if you're like, I'm really interested in this early retirement thing, 915 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to like work fifty hours a week 916 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: and tell I'm sixty five. I get that. I get that, 917 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,720 Speaker 1: but why not test out working twenty thirty hours first 918 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: before you call it quits. You'll still have income, which 919 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: is great, but you'll also have extra hours to fool 920 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: around with and you'll kind of get to see, well, 921 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: what what what are my days is going to look like? 922 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 1: When I have let's say Thursday and Friday. For you, 923 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 1: I'm only working Monday through Wednesday. It's kind of like 924 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: waiting into the waters of early retirement before you just 925 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: quit your job all together. And it makes me think 926 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: of my mom, Matt, That's what she did. She's working 927 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 1: three days a week. She's about to fully retire, but 928 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: she's you know, traditional retirement age. But that kind of 929 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: helps to see, well, how will I spend this day? 930 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: And you're kind of going into it slowly as opposed 931 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: to going from like full on to completely off. Yeah. Yeah, 932 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: it kind of depends if you were like a wait end, 933 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: you know, into the shallow wand kind of person, or 934 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: if you're more like cannonball off the diving board. You 935 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: and I think it's important to mention this, Like, we 936 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: work half days on Fridays, so almost forgot it's it's 937 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: kind of gotten normal for us. Yeah, and we've talked 938 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: about how maybe at some point we would consider doing 939 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: like no, no, Fridays at all, or maybe half taste 940 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,320 Speaker 1: Thursday saying half taste Fridays, and so like, there's ways 941 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: in which well, especially it's easier when you're self employed, 942 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,320 Speaker 1: I guess, but it's there are a lot of traditional 943 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: employers who would say, no, we still want to keep 944 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: you around, but you don't want to work on Fridays. Sure, 945 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 1: it's gonna involve involve a cut to your pay. Yeah, 946 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 1: but if they don't want to lose you, they'll often 947 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: say they'll sign on the dotted line and say, sure, 948 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: that's fine, that's fine with us. But those are the 949 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: kind of things I think that cutting back on those 950 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,319 Speaker 1: hours can help. You see, well would I do with 951 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,799 Speaker 1: that freedom? Am I completely lost here? Or am I 952 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: jones in for more time? You know, six months into 953 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: that experiment? Totally? Yeah. I think this is why we're 954 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: such huge proponents of Coast Fire, because by having done 955 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: that heavy lifting early on that Coast Fire gives us 956 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: options to then start something like a podcast about money 957 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,239 Speaker 1: that may or may not make any money, you know, 958 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 1: like five years ago were it felt kind of risky, 959 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 1: but we also would have been totally fine because we 960 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: had set ourselves up in a decent position. Obviously, we've 961 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: continued to invest since then, and we are in an 962 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 1: even better position over the past five years. But essentially, 963 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: what I'm pointing out here is the fact that we've 964 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,959 Speaker 1: got options, and that is absolutely one hundred percent something 965 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: that we want everybody to be able to experience. So 966 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: you're talking about cutting back the number of hours we 967 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,440 Speaker 1: work kind of like on a regular basis, but I 968 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: think looking at essentially taking our vacation days, I think 969 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: that is really important as well. Honestly, this might be 970 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: like the very first up because fewer workers are actually 971 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: taking time off, and the number of folks who are 972 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 1: taking significant chunks of time off for personal enjoyment has 973 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,319 Speaker 1: been in decline for decades. Um. You know, even with 974 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: the quote unquote unlimited PTO, like that is becoming a 975 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: more frequent benefit than I guess just a dirty trick. 976 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: Employers are offering up there playing it's not cutting it 977 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: because they know how we react and they know that 978 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,319 Speaker 1: unlimited PTO means we're not going to take We're going 979 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,239 Speaker 1: to do it unless there is guilted into not taking it, 980 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: unless there's a culture set of that being the path 981 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 1: that you should be following. And so if you say 982 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: that you want to retire early but you're not willing 983 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: to even take your vacation days off, then it might 984 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: not be a great fit for you. You You know, at 985 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,640 Speaker 1: least make it a point to take the time off 986 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: that you're given at first. And again, not to point 987 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: to you and me Jill as like these shining perfect examples, 988 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: but this is something that I'm proud of us for 989 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,839 Speaker 1: improving on because I think, you know, a few years in, 990 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: like maybe let's say three years ago, we're like, oh, 991 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,520 Speaker 1: the podcast is doing pretty good. We don't. It's it's 992 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: hard to break away from it. It's hard to step 993 00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,239 Speaker 1: away and say, all right, we're gonna let's take a 994 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,280 Speaker 1: week off. Let's take a couple of weeks off for Christmas. 995 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: Let's take a week off for you know, like a 996 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,480 Speaker 1: summer beach trip something like that. But I think was 997 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: it earlier this year we kind of looked at the 998 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: calendar and we might be taking something close to two 999 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,240 Speaker 1: months off by the end of this year, not all 1000 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 1: at once, but kind of scattered around here and there. 1001 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 1: I guess I'm tooting our own horn here, But I 1002 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 1: think that's admirable, and I think it's something that's worth 1003 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: working towards, not just from us. You're not going to 1004 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: get there overnight. It's technic no long time to get there. 1005 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 1: But I think it's a good goal. I'm a little 1006 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,799 Speaker 1: nervous about this year and how much time we're trying 1007 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,439 Speaker 1: to get off, but I'm also excited about it too. Yeah, 1008 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,239 Speaker 1: but I think it's good though, because we are working 1009 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 1: on Obviously, we've worked on it from a financial standpoint, right, 1010 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 1: we have prepared and we are hopefully in a financial 1011 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 1: position to be able to handle that. But it also 1012 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,919 Speaker 1: takes practice on an internal mental level as well, even 1013 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,280 Speaker 1: aside from the finances of it. From a mental personal standpoint, 1014 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,840 Speaker 1: do we have the guts? Do we have what it 1015 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,840 Speaker 1: takes to step away from work? And I know that 1016 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 1: sounds silly to say, but I think it takes more 1017 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 1: courage than people realize, because oftentimes, when you enjoy your work, 1018 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: it can be so easy for us to find ourselves 1019 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 1: like gravitating back towards it, essentially as opposed to pursuing 1020 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 1: some of those other things that we have identified as 1021 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 1: being so important, especially when we didn't grow up in 1022 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,839 Speaker 1: a culture like Australia where they take like two month 1023 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: holidays like every single year, which which is awesome, mates, 1024 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: but that's just not the culture that we live in here, 1025 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: and so we feel I think, guilty when we take 1026 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: our vacation time, or we feel guilty by saying, hey, listen, 1027 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:23,239 Speaker 1: I want to work thirty or so a week and 1028 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,719 Speaker 1: not forty. Those are the kind of things that in 1029 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: the US culture, those are not normal, but I think 1030 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: they're worth pursuing instead of saying it has to be 1031 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,279 Speaker 1: all or none. These are like in between steps that 1032 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,359 Speaker 1: people can and should consider and take before they get 1033 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: to that point totally for that mental reason, but also 1034 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: for financial purposes too, And I think many retirements are 1035 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,759 Speaker 1: just another option, like consider taking a full month off 1036 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,520 Speaker 1: or longer, maybe a few months. And especially with the 1037 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,080 Speaker 1: fact that people are working remotely now in such large numbers, 1038 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,319 Speaker 1: this is something people can do. They can work from 1039 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,239 Speaker 1: abroad and take weeks off while they're abroad and get 1040 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,759 Speaker 1: a taste of what it would look like to live 1041 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: somewhere else if that's what they're A friend of the 1042 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,080 Speaker 1: show coach Carson, he describes many retirement like this, and 1043 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,160 Speaker 1: I really like this what he says. He says any 1044 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: extended break that alters the rhythm and ingrain patterns of 1045 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,240 Speaker 1: your work and home life. Which is a great approach, 1046 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: like throw a wrench in things and like it and 1047 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,920 Speaker 1: give a many retirement a shot, you know, and more 1048 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,279 Speaker 1: companies are offering things like sabbaticals for employees who have 1049 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,840 Speaker 1: been there at number eighty years. You might not be 1050 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 1: able to get paid for it, but who cares. Like, 1051 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: if you're getting to that financial position where you think 1052 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 1: you're ready for earlier retirement, take the sabbatical first, and 1053 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,240 Speaker 1: kind of even if it's unpaid, give it a shot, 1054 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,240 Speaker 1: because early retirements even more complicated than a two month 1055 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,799 Speaker 1: stint off right and a shorter endeavor makes sense to me. 1056 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: I think before you go all in and you say 1057 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: early retirement lifestyles for me, well, how do you know? 1058 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 1: And have you have you taken the approach? Have you 1059 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: tried it out yet? And we'll link to one of 1060 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: a blog actually that Coach Carson wrote about many retirements. 1061 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 1: I think is really helpful for people who are considering 1062 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,680 Speaker 1: one totally. Yeah, so what is it? Ever since you 1063 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 1: mentioned the Australian and you said mates, so after high school, 1064 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,319 Speaker 1: what is it called when they take essentially take a 1065 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 1: year off when they'd like travel the world. Rum Springer, No, 1066 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,720 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I don't know, like there's there's something different, 1067 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: there's a term for it. But but yeah, I mean 1068 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 1: I agree. I think there's a lot of different life 1069 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,760 Speaker 1: experiences that we should be opening ourselves up to. Whether 1070 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,280 Speaker 1: it's after a career of having worked for multiple decades 1071 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,279 Speaker 1: and it's just time for us to start testing the 1072 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 1: waters a little bit and saying, oh, is this something 1073 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,840 Speaker 1: that I want to pursue or achieve sooner or even 1074 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, like right after high school. I don't think 1075 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:29,719 Speaker 1: it would be a bad idea to travel the world 1076 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,879 Speaker 1: and see all that is out there before you sign 1077 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 1: yourself up for four years of indebtedness with a high 1078 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,640 Speaker 1: cost of college. Or yeah, I take a little gap here, 1079 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,480 Speaker 1: gap year, that's that's the word. Yeah. I thought you 1080 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: were talking about what Australians do and I was like, 1081 00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,799 Speaker 1: I don't know what they do. No, you're talking about 1082 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: it's just yeah, generally speaking, take years, you take a 1083 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 1: gap year. Yeah, Well, I mean, well I took three 1084 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,600 Speaker 1: months off. I quick I took I got my first 1085 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,600 Speaker 1: job in radio. I did it for six months and 1086 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 1: then I was like, you're not really working out for him, 1087 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,439 Speaker 1: and so I cry, you know, you're probably you're you're 1088 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 1: getting to the end of your bank account basically right. Well, well, 1089 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,600 Speaker 1: the pay was not very high, but I'd saved up 1090 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,120 Speaker 1: like five grand and I went on a three month 1091 00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,279 Speaker 1: trip around the United States. I mean you're three months. Oh, 1092 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,279 Speaker 1: I thought you said the three months didn't work out. No, 1093 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 1: the three months was great, Okay, it was the job 1094 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 1: that wasn't working. I was like, this is I don't 1095 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,360 Speaker 1: really want to be here a bunch longer. And so 1096 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,640 Speaker 1: but I'm young enough. I can find something else when 1097 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 1: I'm done with this, and I can live so cheaply 1098 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 1: in the meantime that it doesn't matter, and that three 1099 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,360 Speaker 1: months well worth it. I've got the best memories from that. 1100 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,080 Speaker 1: So I don't want people to think that this is 1101 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,880 Speaker 1: like some sort of like pro work until you die episode. 1102 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 1: And I hope that we've come across pretty clearly in 1103 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,439 Speaker 1: that in that regard that you and I like, I'm 1104 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 1: planning to retire at some point, probably I'm about to 1105 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,400 Speaker 1: turn forty. I'm not going to retire like in my duels, 1106 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: like not gonna live forever, not gonna retire anytime soon, though, 1107 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 1: But taking these interim approach at least, I think for 1108 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 1: you and me, Matt, that makes more sense. For us. 1109 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, let's take a significant amount of time 1110 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,600 Speaker 1: off during the year. Yeah, let's do half day Fridays, 1111 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 1: and but let's also still have meaningful work that we 1112 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,880 Speaker 1: enjoy to do with part of our lives. So I 1113 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,680 Speaker 1: don't know, it's all about kind of finding balance, and 1114 00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: ye's going to look different for everybody else totally, yeah, 1115 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,320 Speaker 1: Because I mean so early retirement is going to attract 1116 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,759 Speaker 1: a certain crowd. I think for some that goal is 1117 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,960 Speaker 1: going to be incredibly enticing. We're all for increasing your 1118 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,280 Speaker 1: savings rate, We're all for ramping up your financial margins 1119 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,360 Speaker 1: so that you are going to have more flexibility and 1120 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,480 Speaker 1: more choice in your life. But quitting work all together 1121 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,839 Speaker 1: like cold turkey right about now, even though we likely could, 1122 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,200 Speaker 1: that doesn't sound all that great, you know, like we've 1123 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,400 Speaker 1: chosen instead to pursue something that we love instead of 1124 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,320 Speaker 1: opting out of work altogether. And so we wanted to 1125 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: talk about this today because we are trying to encourage 1126 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: everyone out there to choose your financial goals wisely. Because 1127 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 1: I think they're going to impact how it is that 1128 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,319 Speaker 1: you live life now, because like early retirement, it might 1129 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,480 Speaker 1: make the most sense for you, we want you to 1130 00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: think about some of the alternatives that will make your 1131 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,520 Speaker 1: life awesome potentially in the here and now, before you've 1132 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,320 Speaker 1: dedicated your life to a goal that might not actually 1133 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: make you happy. And you know the other thing too, 1134 00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:00,360 Speaker 1: If you pursue early retirement while you neglect your health 1135 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,040 Speaker 1: and relationships, it's not going to be worth it. That's 1136 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,040 Speaker 1: something as we have friends who are in the fire space, 1137 00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,040 Speaker 1: that is something that they have continued to come back to. 1138 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,560 Speaker 1: They've said that if they could do it all over again, 1139 00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,319 Speaker 1: they would possibly continue holding the job that they had 1140 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,279 Speaker 1: with all the great benefits, but that they would have 1141 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,880 Speaker 1: prioritized different things like taking care of their body, meaningfully 1142 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,040 Speaker 1: investing in some different relationships along the way, as opposed 1143 00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,880 Speaker 1: to that nose to the grindstone mentality when a lot 1144 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,080 Speaker 1: of them were working fifty sixty plus hours to achieve 1145 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,319 Speaker 1: this goal in a shorter time frame, which led to 1146 00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,560 Speaker 1: unhealth for a lot of those working years. And so 1147 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:36,920 Speaker 1: I think that is one of the trade offs that 1148 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,839 Speaker 1: a lot of people trying to pursue earlier retirement end 1149 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,839 Speaker 1: up making and so those interim years until you reach 1150 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,120 Speaker 1: that point, they become kind of a slog. They become 1151 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:47,880 Speaker 1: kind of hard to remember. Maybe you didn't get to 1152 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,520 Speaker 1: enjoy yourself. Maybe you missed out on a fun trip 1153 00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: with friends, because no, no, no, all my extra money's 1154 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,279 Speaker 1: got to go into my four one K and I 1155 00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,759 Speaker 1: RA and HSA right, because my goals retiring early. But 1156 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,319 Speaker 1: I think if you take that hard nosed approach to 1157 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,000 Speaker 1: early retirement, I think you're gonna retire early and do 1158 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:05,600 Speaker 1: it well. But I think if you take that hard 1159 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,719 Speaker 1: nosed approach to retirement to early retirement, you're likely going 1160 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,200 Speaker 1: to have missed out on a lot of great stuff 1161 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,960 Speaker 1: along the way, exactly. And those are years that you 1162 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,680 Speaker 1: may never be able to get back, you know, like 1163 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,880 Speaker 1: youth and flexibility and other and you and me the 1164 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,239 Speaker 1: ability to go without a whole lot of sleeve. Yeah. 1165 00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: As saying this as somewhere who had their kid wake up, 1166 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: we're already to the four times in the middle of 1167 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:26,880 Speaker 1: the night last night, you and me, We're already to 1168 00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:28,120 Speaker 1: the point in our lives where we can look back 1169 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:29,640 Speaker 1: on some of those years with fondness and it's like 1170 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,160 Speaker 1: we're removed enough from youth that I look back and 1171 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, those were good times, and I'm glad 1172 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,640 Speaker 1: that I wasn't like hold up in an office working 1173 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,600 Speaker 1: too much, trying to pursue this goal, like too dedicated 1174 00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,120 Speaker 1: to the cause of financial independence. And it's not that, like, 1175 00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:48,640 Speaker 1: like you said, frugality and investing and developing more margin 1176 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,800 Speaker 1: your life aren't important. But man, if it means that 1177 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,400 Speaker 1: you're missing out on the rest of the good stuff, 1178 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: then that to me, I think that's a mistake. Exactly 1179 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,600 Speaker 1: totally agreement. Let's get to the beer. You and I 1180 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: we enjoyed a Ferris, which is a coffee Imperial stout. 1181 00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,040 Speaker 1: This is a beer by New Park Brewing. Another one 1182 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,799 Speaker 1: sent to us by Matthew. Thank you so much for 1183 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,040 Speaker 1: sending this one our way, Joel. What are your thoughts 1184 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: on this one? So this one was roasty and a 1185 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: little bit bitter. Oh yeah, which I kind of like 1186 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,880 Speaker 1: because it was made with coffee from Jay Renee. Okay, 1187 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,480 Speaker 1: I guess that's the coffee roaster that's probably they're in 1188 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,239 Speaker 1: West Hartford. Okay, Yeah, So I would say this was 1189 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,600 Speaker 1: a really good a really good stout and I some 1190 00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,000 Speaker 1: people really like the sweeter milk style stouts. I prefer 1191 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,479 Speaker 1: kind of a more bitter coffee stout. So this one's 1192 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,800 Speaker 1: up my alley with a little more pep in the step. 1193 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,239 Speaker 1: It's almost like an espresso. Yeah, kind of like an 1194 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,400 Speaker 1: espresso style coffee coffee stout. So I dug it, what 1195 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,759 Speaker 1: about you? Yeah? It was pretty so not espresso from 1196 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,560 Speaker 1: like an acid d bite kind of way, because I 1197 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,000 Speaker 1: would say that this drink really smooth, like it almost 1198 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,399 Speaker 1: was like a milk stout, had a nice creamy mouth 1199 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,280 Speaker 1: feel too, like there was some lactose in there or something. Yeah, 1200 00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, really well balanced. Definitely enjoyed this one. And 1201 00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:58,560 Speaker 1: did you pick up on the label? By the way, 1202 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,040 Speaker 1: this was called Ferris. Do you understand the graphic? Nope? 1203 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,480 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen like magnets when they interact with 1204 00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,600 Speaker 1: like metal shavings? So Ferris is like fee, the symbol 1205 00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,160 Speaker 1: for iron. Right. Oh yeah, So I think it's supposed 1206 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,240 Speaker 1: to be like the way that metal or iron reacts 1207 00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,080 Speaker 1: to magnetic fields, right, science nerd, you get it, you 1208 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,879 Speaker 1: get it. You're the bill ny how the money Matthew exact? First, 1209 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,480 Speaker 1: I was like, what is on this label? And then 1210 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,319 Speaker 1: when we read the name of the beer, I was like, oh, 1211 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:29,279 Speaker 1: Ferris like iron, not like Tim Ferris spelled differently. Anyway, 1212 00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,759 Speaker 1: we hope that you've enjoyed this episode, if you got 1213 00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,319 Speaker 1: a lot of value at this one and you haven't 1214 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,960 Speaker 1: yet left us a review over at Apple Podcasts or 1215 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,239 Speaker 1: honestly even over at Spotify. They make it so easy, 1216 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,480 Speaker 1: just match. They got the five stars right there, you know, 1217 00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,440 Speaker 1: go all the way to the right. Include all five 1218 00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,560 Speaker 1: stars if you don't mind, But it really does help 1219 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,640 Speaker 1: us to get the word out, helps others to learn 1220 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,719 Speaker 1: about different personal finance concepts like earlier retirement. Will make 1221 00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,040 Speaker 1: sure to have links to some of the different resources 1222 00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,560 Speaker 1: we mentioned during this episode up on our show notes 1223 00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:58,880 Speaker 1: at how to money dot Com. No doubt. All right, 1224 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,399 Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this episod Old Matt 1225 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,560 Speaker 1: until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.