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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Hunting Collected podcast Numero Uno number one,

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Speaker 1: coming to you alive from Mexico. I'm sitting on a ridge,

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Speaker 1: a nice glass and tit as some would call it,

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Speaker 1: in the middle of Sonora, the middle of Cartel Country.

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Speaker 1: I got a little recorder, some binos and pretty cool guests.

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Speaker 1: First guest is Steve Rinella. We've been here hunting for

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Speaker 1: the last six days. Jason Ko's deer or cow's deer

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Speaker 1: some call them, in the middle of arid desert mountainey

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Speaker 1: landscape that can only be described as as beautiful, challenging.

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Speaker 1: Steve and I have been hiking around for for six

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Speaker 1: days and talking about life, talking about hunting, talking about politics,

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Speaker 1: just getting to know each other better as we've been

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Speaker 1: known each other for years and I've been friend and

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Speaker 1: then that way. That makes him the perfect first guest

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Speaker 1: for a Hunty collective. Steve is of course an author,

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Speaker 1: a writer, a great example of a modern hunt and

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Speaker 1: because he is that, because he's a great example of

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Speaker 1: an a bastion for hope for the future of hunting,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to him about how he feels

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Speaker 1: right now, how he felt in the past about hunting.

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Speaker 1: It may be ways to fix some of the problems

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Speaker 1: that we've have. We feel hopeful about some of the positives.

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Speaker 1: They're happening right now and I think we were able

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Speaker 1: to do that and about an hour and a half,

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Speaker 1: So give us a break. This is the first try

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Speaker 1: to podcast, but hopefully the Honey Collective will continue to

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Speaker 1: have interesting guests that can help us examine our own

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Speaker 1: ideas about hunting, our own philosophies why we go outside. So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, Mr Steven Ronella Steve describe You're one

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Speaker 1: of the best ortors I know. So I like how

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Speaker 1: this is going. Yeah, I like to start off with

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Speaker 1: a little I can start off with a little compliment

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Speaker 1: to the gas, you know, really smoothing old that's the

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Speaker 1: old trick man. Describe where we're at. We are in Sonora, Mexico,

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Speaker 1: close enough to the US border that if we look

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Speaker 1: to the north, we can see a very ominous looking

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Speaker 1: surveillance blimp um that seems like that hovers over the

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Speaker 1: landscape like the spaceship in the movie District nine. You've

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Speaker 1: seen that, So who's that there's like? Looking at that

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Speaker 1: which one would imagine has the most sophisticated equipment in

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Speaker 1: the world yet I am sitting literally in rabbit droppings

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Speaker 1: and comedy where um on a hillside cover it in

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Speaker 1: a lot of juniper and ocatillo and oak and mesquite

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Speaker 1: and very dry yellow grass. Good, Yeah, that's pretty good.

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Speaker 1: I like it. A lot of exposed rock, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is expelled. A lot of stuff that looks like it

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Speaker 1: does not get a lot of rainfall, that's true. A

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Speaker 1: lot of dry river beds, dry creek beds, a lot

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Speaker 1: of places for cus here to be hide now today,

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Speaker 1: But I don't believe we've seen anything we wanted to chase.

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Speaker 1: But just for those listening, we're both bindos in hands.

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Speaker 1: So if we have to break a bit from the podcast,

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Speaker 1: you'll know why. Because forever we found in our chasing

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Speaker 1: a big but we found in our chasing a big bucket.

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Speaker 1: We can start this over whenever that ends, hopefully pretty soon,

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Speaker 1: because this is the last day of a six day hunt.

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Speaker 1: He in Sonora country, Cartel country. We haven't seen any cartail,

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Speaker 1: but we have seen and killed some cous Dear Steve,

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Speaker 1: you kinda pretty damn good one. Five days good, didn't you?

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Speaker 1: The first full day of the hunt, I um, which

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Speaker 1: never happened. Well, Okay, I've hunted cus dear five times,

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Speaker 1: you know, each time for a week or so, and

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Speaker 1: I've killed cus deer two times, so you know, and

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Speaker 1: those in those times I've put in a lot of hours.

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Speaker 1: It also looked at a lot of deer. But hunting

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Speaker 1: cuz deer you tend to like it was a couple

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Speaker 1: of things about it. You hunt. I've always hand a

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Speaker 1: cuz deer late in the year, always, but mostly in January, UM.

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Speaker 1: And so at that point I usually have like a

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Speaker 1: pretty full freezer, all right, except be hunting off fall,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not feeling like in a real meat crisis.

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Speaker 1: And it's a place that really just like to hang

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Speaker 1: around and observe and you just spend like today we

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Speaker 1: will spend from dawn till dark. We will spend the

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Speaker 1: entire day on one knob, on one like Punta Alto

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Speaker 1: as they say in Spanish. Um. And so it's just

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Speaker 1: like really just kind of an intense focus on this observation,

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Speaker 1: watching the landscape, observing deer, and you'd like to kind

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Speaker 1: of drag it out. And so I think that because

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Speaker 1: of how enjoyable it is and the weather, like you

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Speaker 1: couldn't imagine better weather than Senora in January. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't go running off after the first buck,

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Speaker 1: you see. So you kind of like like, in my

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Speaker 1: mind like hunting couse deer is almost like a it's

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Speaker 1: like a vacation, you kind of thing in some way,

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Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, you like to wait and try to

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Speaker 1: find a big one's having to be a couple of

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Speaker 1: times in the past though, is I'd let some bucks

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Speaker 1: slide and then on the last day or two be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna change my attention now to get a meat

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Speaker 1: buck and then not be able to find one because

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Speaker 1: there's a big difference out here between finding one and

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Speaker 1: getting it. Yeah, oh of course we found plenty that

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Speaker 1: we haven't. You see him. They step behind the bush

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Speaker 1: and that's it just vanished, man. And the landscape is

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Speaker 1: so it's so corrugated and just full of hell holes.

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Speaker 1: Increases that. Yeah, things just pop up and then you

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Speaker 1: never say again. And it's often to be looking at

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Speaker 1: It's often that they're popping up thousand yards away, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then it was gone. Sometimes before you can even

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Speaker 1: tell what they had going on. You just get this

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Speaker 1: like basic idea that you're looking at a buck and

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Speaker 1: then it vanishes and you spend a day trying to

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Speaker 1: find it again and never find it again. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: the literal version of a topographic map when you're looking

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Speaker 1: at this place and it's cuts and divide and dry

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Speaker 1: creek beds and brush a hillsides and clear grassy hillsides

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Speaker 1: and yeah, and it's like the kind of place where

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Speaker 1: it's not like readily obviously even what way the rivers

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Speaker 1: are flowing like you feel like you get into a

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Speaker 1: river channel and somehow walk a circle. Yes, absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: and for me, you're right, I mean, this is the

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Speaker 1: end of the year. This is we we left the

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Speaker 1: day after New Year's Day, and you know it's quiet here.

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Speaker 1: It's eerily quiet. Hopefully the sound on this first podcast

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a lot of wind, and you can just

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Speaker 1: hear how quiet it is here. And even though we're

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Speaker 1: sitting together, a lot of times we split up and

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Speaker 1: you sit by yourself and you're just focused on nothing

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Speaker 1: but what's in the field of view you're buying. And

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty healthy reset for the whole next year

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Speaker 1: to come. What I've thought of like hunting down here

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Speaker 1: before I've kind of thought is that that the the

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Speaker 1: astancias of the ranches down here really the only place

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Speaker 1: in the West that you would that you can kind

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Speaker 1: of get a sense for it would be some of

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Speaker 1: the wilderness areas or some of the more remote corners

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Speaker 1: of Nevada. You know, it's hard to explain. Um, just

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Speaker 1: like how still I mean these guys still you know people,

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Speaker 1: you see razors. It seems like you see you know,

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Speaker 1: UTVs more and more, but still work cattle on horseback.

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Speaker 1: It's just quiet out here, man, big huge, huge properties. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we can see how many miles can we

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Speaker 1: see right now in this vista to this next mountain bip.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I don't see I'm not actually looking

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Speaker 1: at the blimp right now. But it's it's been it's

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Speaker 1: been a constant landscape this entire time. Now, it's it's

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Speaker 1: that's what strikes me about about this type of honey.

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Speaker 1: And and we're here on a ranch that is a

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Speaker 1: private ranch, but we kind of made the decision just

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Speaker 1: to do it on our own. I mean, we don't

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Speaker 1: have any guys, don't have anybody telling score the deer

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Speaker 1: are where they aren't where the big deer live where

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Speaker 1: they might be, so we're just finding the highest class

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Speaker 1: and tip this glasses and uh, there's some purity in that.

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Speaker 1: I know. I've heard, I don't know if I was

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Speaker 1: you or your brother at some level talk about the

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Speaker 1: purity meter. Matt, my brother Matt has a purity score

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Speaker 1: talk about which has weighted very heavily to to um,

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Speaker 1: which is this demonstrates a lot of bias. What's your

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Speaker 1: purity score? Is this pretty high on the on the list? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's high, man, I mean, like, you know, to steal

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Speaker 1: his idea, which I guess is hardly unique of a

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Speaker 1: start of purity scoring a hunt. I do rate public

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Speaker 1: land higher only because just speaking very generally, like in

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Speaker 1: a very general sense, is much harder to be consistently

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Speaker 1: successful on public land then it is private land. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is a gross generalization, but um, public land has,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jenny has open access, you know, and if

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Speaker 1: you're talking about hunts that are kind of like over

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Speaker 1: the counter taking place on public land, there's open access,

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Speaker 1: and there's no coordination or little to no coordination between

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Speaker 1: people using the landscape, so you're often instead of working

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Speaker 1: in coordination with whoever else might be out there, you're working.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're kind of plotting against each other and

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Speaker 1: like a very like if you're like I got a

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Speaker 1: feeling those guys will go there. I'm gonna get up

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Speaker 1: an extra hour early and get there. You know. There's

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff hunting on private land. Yeah, generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: less people out and sort of coordinating their activities and

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Speaker 1: and it's just different. So if parity winds up being

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Speaker 1: like some kind and a difficulty, then yeah, I rate

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Speaker 1: that pretty high. Um, I rate Like, here's the way

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Speaker 1: of putting it, how excited and surprised it's a hunt

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Speaker 1: has high purity. I guess if you're if you're shocked

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Speaker 1: that you were successful, it tends to have a higher purity.

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Speaker 1: And you say that right, because it's like those hunts

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Speaker 1: for you're like shocked to be successful are great. But

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Speaker 1: then why is it also great to go out and

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Speaker 1: realize that you're in the middle of a huge duck

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Speaker 1: migration and then all you talk about is how great

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Speaker 1: it was because ducks were just piling in no matter

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Speaker 1: what you did. You can be shooting off flares and

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Speaker 1: they're still laying the depots, and that somehow great too.

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Speaker 1: But the so it's you know, it's it's so it's

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Speaker 1: so full like personal biases. It's hard to really talk

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Speaker 1: about in any kind of real way. But I do

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Speaker 1: like the ones where you're nervous amount whether you'll be

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Speaker 1: able to work it out, and then success comes down

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Speaker 1: to you really working hard and putting in your best

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Speaker 1: effort and having a payoff and being kind of like

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Speaker 1: surprised and pleased that worked out. Is there is there

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Speaker 1: a level of predictability there if it's an unpredictable landscape

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Speaker 1: like in this In this case, it's it's fairly predictable

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Speaker 1: where we can it can't go I mean we can

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Speaker 1: we can go the borders of this ranch, and we

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Speaker 1: kind of can talk to locals and get a bit

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Speaker 1: of a prediction on what's good and what's bad. But

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Speaker 1: we don't have we can't predict a migration, we can't

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Speaker 1: predict the rut we're here just trying to catch. It.

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Speaker 1: Is predictability like a little bit far out. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna like map out like let's say we're

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Speaker 1: map out the purity score, let's do it. Well. The

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Speaker 1: thing that I would bring into is that so our

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Speaker 1: body like we we have a friend, Jay Scott, who

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Speaker 1: facilitates both guided and non guided hunts for Cou's deer

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Speaker 1: in Sonora. Um, so this is a rancher. He's worked,

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Speaker 1: but he doesn't like he hasn't hunted it. So that

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Speaker 1: in my mind, as I'm like doing this very biased,

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Speaker 1: very personal purity score thing, like in my mind, the

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Speaker 1: fact that we're sort of on the van guard of

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Speaker 1: hunting this place, that adds a little purity to me.

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Speaker 1: That we've never hunted it before adds a little purity

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Speaker 1: to me because discovery is important something. So if we

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Speaker 1: can't if we learned, because now we know this summitch

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Speaker 1: pretty well. Yeah, not all the way, but we've learned

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Speaker 1: a lot. Like we've hunted duntled Dusk, a lot of guys,

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Speaker 1: swapping a lot of notes, so we know a lot

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Speaker 1: about it. Coming back next year, yes, absolutely, there will

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Speaker 1: be a teensy bit less purity in my mind because

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Speaker 1: we already knew it, right. So this the fact that

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Speaker 1: we're just kind of like figuring it out and don't

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Speaker 1: even have like super strong guidance, um makes it kind

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Speaker 1: of fun. But then I've done this sort of thing

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Speaker 1: a lot of times, so I kind of like understand

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Speaker 1: how to put it together. There's a lot of hunting

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Speaker 1: rodby clueless, but this, even though we're south of the border,

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Speaker 1: this is a type like arid open country spot and

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Speaker 1: stock hunting is something that I've devoted a great deal of,

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Speaker 1: you know, time to figuring out and I kind of

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Speaker 1: like understand it now you know, and I'm able to

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Speaker 1: apply it to a handful of different kinds of animals wells.

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Speaker 1: As you get going in your life, and I've found this,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you're the same. Your purity score, it's harder

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Speaker 1: and harder to score high. The more you hunt, the

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Speaker 1: more places you go, the more things you see, the

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Speaker 1: more experiences you have, it's harder to score high im purity.

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Speaker 1: Give yourself a bigger um, you know, bigger room for error.

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Speaker 1: Early on, you're like, man, it's cool just to see Mexico.

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Speaker 1: Once you see in Mexico, once you see in this

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Speaker 1: country and you understand what it is and hunting kus

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Speaker 1: do you And maybe you're not so next time. The

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Speaker 1: pretty score is just just a little bit further. So

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Speaker 1: maybe next time, if you're looking to introduce a difficulty

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Speaker 1: you didn't have on this trip, you bring your bow

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Speaker 1: if you'd put me out here twenty years ago, No,

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Speaker 1: I know exactly how I would have hunted it, and

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Speaker 1: I think that I would have been shocked and surprised

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Speaker 1: where I had to get any buck, Yeah, because we

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Speaker 1: would have come out and we'd just walked up and down,

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Speaker 1: up and down, up and down, thinking you're gonna like

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Speaker 1: jump one up or that's just how we would have

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Speaker 1: hunted it back then, and so back then it had

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Speaker 1: I gotten one, I would have been like stunned, right,

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Speaker 1: and we'd be like if like me and my brothers

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Speaker 1: had come down, we all want up getting the buck,

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Speaker 1: even just spikes and for keys, right, we'd be all

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Speaker 1: worked up. But yeah, just through kind of like learning

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Speaker 1: how to do this um over, you know, a long

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Speaker 1: period of time, you do kind of come into situations.

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Speaker 1: You come into a lot of hunting situations feel a

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Speaker 1: little bit more cocky. Like I did a hunt this

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Speaker 1: year with our mutual friend Remy and I. I had

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Speaker 1: been applying for years for an elk tag on the

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Speaker 1: fog Nack Island. Um finally drew one, and just so

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Speaker 1: happens that a body of mine had drawn it and

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Speaker 1: been on the hun a couple of times before, so

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Speaker 1: he came with now because he went before, he just

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Speaker 1: knew like how it goes right, and he just knew

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Speaker 1: how to work it, and so going with him it

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Speaker 1: was an completely different experience what I expected because he knew.

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Speaker 1: He kind of told me like, here's where I think

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Speaker 1: will happen when we go, and that woind up happening.

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Speaker 1: And he was very much in the driver's seat on

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Speaker 1: that hunt because he was coming in with with with

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Speaker 1: the knowledge. Um, and that's the kind of stuff you

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Speaker 1: seek out, right, So you seek out people who know

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Speaker 1: what's going on, and that's like an important part of learning.

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Speaker 1: But it just winds up being a different experience. Not

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Speaker 1: that I didn't have a great time on that hunt,

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Speaker 1: but it was very different than if I just went

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Speaker 1: in cold rolled into it. I think one of the highest,

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Speaker 1: like one of the highest purity score hunts I ever

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Speaker 1: did was I was probably and I was like my

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Speaker 1: I think it was in my first year graduate school

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Speaker 1: and my brother had gone down he was going to

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Speaker 1: graduate school in Auburn, Alabama, and he started messing around

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Speaker 1: out onto Skegee National Forest. So he had just moved

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Speaker 1: there and me, both my brothers and a buddy bars

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Speaker 1: all decided to go do a hunt in Tuskegee National Forest.

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Speaker 1: And we don't know anyone. I didn't have any kind

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Speaker 1: of network. This is like before stuff was widely available

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Speaker 1: on the web, Like you didn't go find information like

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Speaker 1: this on the web. And we just went down and

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Speaker 1: started hunting to Skegee. And we had, you know, a

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Speaker 1: week or so, and everybody got a buck. And I

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Speaker 1: got a buck on the last day that was so

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Speaker 1: small that when I school captin, I could put it

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Speaker 1: in my shirt pocket. That buck rack, that little spike

300
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Speaker 1: rack rode home with me in the shirt pocket of

301
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Speaker 1: my shirt front, the front shirt pocket. Oh my god,

302
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,120
Speaker 1: that's how our school captain. I just left a little

303
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 1: narrow sliver of bone and had two like inch and

304
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,639
Speaker 1: a half spikes. Not a button buck, but a small spike.

305
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Speaker 1: But dude, we'd like done it right. Everyone in the

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Speaker 1: world that goes I went. Everyone in the world, like

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Speaker 1: in the east, everyone once the dreams going the West.

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Speaker 1: We went from Montana to go hunt Alabama in the

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Speaker 1: National Forest. What Alabama? Because my brother gone down for

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Speaker 1: graduate school. I'd go in to Montana for graduate school.

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Speaker 1: He went to Alabama for graduate school, And so we

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Speaker 1: just went hunted Alabama and like figured it out on

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Speaker 1: a national forest. And I still count that as being

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Speaker 1: like one of the coolest sons ever went on. I

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Speaker 1: think that's true. I mean, the coolest sons ever went

316
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Speaker 1: on when I was growing up where those songs where

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Speaker 1: we just we had Green Ridge State Forest in Maryland,

318
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Speaker 1: grew up and you just get a couple of buddies

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Speaker 1: to get your dad and your neighbor. You go up

320
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 1: there and you walk around. You shot a spike. That

321
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 1: was the best if you made it to a spot

322
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Speaker 1: where you could camp and camped out by the creek.

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Speaker 1: And when I was old enough, had a few beers.

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Speaker 1: That was just as well. But we had no that

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Speaker 1: we didn't wrap any kind of trophy measurements other than

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Speaker 1: the fact that we were together with people that we

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Speaker 1: cared about. That's all we ever did. And um, I

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Speaker 1: found that hunting became more complicated once I kind of

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Speaker 1: developed my own sensibilities and um and heard about everyone

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Speaker 1: else's sensibilities and what they wanted to do, and and

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Speaker 1: got into this business and and learned that I had

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Speaker 1: to figure out, you know, what my ideologies were and

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Speaker 1: what my ideas were about hunting because I can't just

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Speaker 1: walk around the woods of my dad and my neighbor anymore.

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Speaker 1: At first, the different perspectives on the outdoor world natural

336
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Speaker 1: world hunting, they come as this like day lose, right,

337
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 1: and it's disorienting, and you might look at it and think,

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00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,719
Speaker 1: like you just see all kinds of things that seems

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00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 1: sort of ugly. But then when you realize that all

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00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 1: of those practices are coming from something that probably developed

341
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 1: very naturally, it was passed on patrilineally, and then lady,

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Speaker 1: you try to dig through it and find out what

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00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: parts of the world at large are worth keeping and

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Speaker 1: what parts of the world at large you'd like to

345
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Speaker 1: see vanish, and uh, you know, it's it's like fun

346
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Speaker 1: to be able to it's fun to be able to

347
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 1: toy with all these ideas. Yeah. Well, with a much

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Speaker 1: more narrow um, a much more narrow understanding of the world. Yeah. Well,

349
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: that that's what I think about when you take new

350
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 1: new hunters that are, you know, twenty years and older

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Speaker 1: in their adult stages of their life, I get a

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Speaker 1: lot of that. I'm sure you get the same a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. No, I think that new hunters you

354
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: struggle when you're you know, say you're twenty five or

355
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: thirty or thirty five or even older, and you seeing

356
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Speaker 1: hunting and social media or you experienced someplace in your

357
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Speaker 1: life and you want to pick it up. I think

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Speaker 1: it's tough. Social media makes it tougher because you see,

359
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,640
Speaker 1: you know, people that you either respect or admire doing

360
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 1: you know, the ultimate maybe it's a private ranch, L

361
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,439
Speaker 1: Cohn or something like that. And you see those things,

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00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: the films that we make in that hunting industry, in

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00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 1: the ways that we portray it, and you see those things,

364
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,959
Speaker 1: you see the pinnacle of hunting represented in our media.

365
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Speaker 1: And I don't know that you get a sense that

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Speaker 1: you can just be like you were in Dusky, You're

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00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: like I might have been in Maryland. You can just

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Speaker 1: be someone who is exploring the natural world, learned about animals,

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Speaker 1: and you just haven't to have a bow or a

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Speaker 1: rifle in your hand. I mean, I think that's something

371
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: you lose if you don't. If you don't pick up

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Speaker 1: hunting early on, and you're you you're introduced to it

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Speaker 1: through the modern media cycle. I think that's a struggle

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00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 1: something that we should think about. Means that it creates unrealistic, absolutely,

375
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: but it and it creates this ideologue that that you

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00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: have to do with a certain way. You have to

377
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: look a certain way and act a certain way, and

378
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 1: you have to the bigger the animal, the more successful

379
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 1: you might be. But when you were in Tuskegee and

380
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: when I was in green Rid State Forest, we never

381
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Speaker 1: thought twice. We never had the ability to think twice

382
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 1: or the perspective of the sensibility to think twice about

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Speaker 1: whether that four point or six point or ten point

384
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Speaker 1: was was success? It was? There was the other thing.

385
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 1: I'm allays interested in your relationship with your dad wanted

386
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: then your relationship with your brother as well. But brothers

387
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: dating Matt, I think that lays a strong base about

388
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 1: who you are as a hunter and what you're what

389
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 1: the rules are and and what your expectations are. Um,

390
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: talk about that. Talk about your dad, your first experience

391
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: hunting and just what it what it shaped in you.

392
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: Now that that's important. We uh, I was raising Western Michigan. Um,

393
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: my dad had been you know, my dad was born

394
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: in South side of Chicago. He's raised by his grandparents

395
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: who spoke Italian in the home. Um, he brought that radio,

396
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: so let this go on the podcast. This is I

397
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: believe Yanni be honest to tell us the lobby an eagle. Go, Yanni,

398
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: you're on the podcast. Wow, Um, these boys got the rangers.

399
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: We're sitting here thinking about coming up towards you guys.

400
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: You guys still down with the plan of out in

401
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: the north end. Yeah, we're down with that plan. If

402
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: you just follow that road up to the around the

403
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,959
Speaker 1: tip where where we are, you should be able to

404
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 1: spread out and see into Black territory when you guys

405
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: were walking that road this morning, when you guys go

406
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: to might be a good Yeah, there's plenty of good

407
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: stuff in there to hang the meat. Excellent. We'll ring.

408
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: They're gonna tell them you have to packet for a

409
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: few want you're gonna have to packet for Yeah, you'll

410
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: be close to in your part, but you may have

411
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: to pack in a couple hundred yards. Thanks for joining

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00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: the podcast, Yanni, and I hopefully I can do it again.

413
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: It's been great. You're just a great guest. Thanks. Thanks.

414
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: Johnnie the great lot Peen Eagle, who is Steve's right

415
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: hand right hand man for everything everything meat eater. Um yeah,

416
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,959
Speaker 1: so my ow man, so so like he drew up

417
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: with no idea boon. He was always drawn to it

418
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: and really interested in it, but he didn't start hunt

419
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: until after World War Two. Then he got serious about it.

420
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: But um, so I was born, But I was born

421
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: in the best of Michigan. We grew up hunting a

422
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: mix of of farms, people that my parents knew through

423
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: church and just through the community. Uh, you know, two

424
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: hundred acre three hundred acre farms, and then mixed public land.

425
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: The first deer I ever missed I missed on public

426
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: land with my bow when I was eleven. And the

427
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: first dear I killed I killed on private land with

428
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: a gun when I was thirteen. And you would you know,

429
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: we had long hunting seasons, so we would start kind

430
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: of rule in our household was that you could take

431
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: a half day off school for the opening of squirrel

432
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: season on September. You could take a half day off

433
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: school for the opening of bowl season on October one. Um,

434
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: we could always take November one off because you could.

435
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: That was the opening of trapping season, so we could start.

436
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: We'd start setting muskrat traps at midnight on Halloween and

437
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: then usually got to run, you know, set traps off

438
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: through the first and then you could take the full

439
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: day off school for November fifteen gun opener um, and

440
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: you didn't have to go to school on your birthday.

441
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: So I would always go ice fish and on my

442
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: birthday with my dad. But on November, like, if you

443
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: didn't kill a deer by about you know, like how

444
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: that moment when the morning seems to kind of end

445
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: right post on, you would just if you didn't have

446
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: If you didn't kill a deer by like nine in

447
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: the morning, you just get a sinking family and statistically

448
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: you were backed up. It's like you killed if you

449
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: didn't kill a deer on Open Day, like your chances

450
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,239
Speaker 1: are getting a deer early. Put this away. You had

451
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: a greater chance of killing a deer on Opening Day

452
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: then you would if you hunted all whatever it was

453
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: fourteen days of the season. So more than half the

454
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: deer I killed him over your day. That's crazy. It

455
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: sounds like sounds similar while the step team and yeah,

456
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: do you you would ever pass up any buck? It

457
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: was a laughable notion back then because there weren't big bucks.

458
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: Bucks got like two and a half aridle bucks were rare, rare,

459
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: um in the places we hunted like Bucks just got

460
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: shot and you did your fair share of the shooting.

461
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: And to even and to even begin the idea of

462
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: like getting on board if people are gonna start passing

463
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: up Bucks just what it was just an idea whose

464
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: time had not yet come. Um. And so to be

465
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: a very successful deer season would be did you'd get

466
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: a deer with your bow and get a deer with

467
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: your gun? That was a very successful season. If there

468
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: were guys you knew about, guys who would like could

469
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: kill a deer every year? What they're gone and killing

470
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: you every year at the Bowl? Like those were the

471
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: dudes you would go and ask for advice. But are

472
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: you always one of those guys? Your brothers, Well, we

473
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: would get deer, but I would spend Here's the thing

474
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: is like during those kind of like during those those years,

475
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: I was very devoted to for trapping. So I didn't put, uh,

476
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: I prioritize that I prioritized trapping. I would kind of

477
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: measure the success of my year more by kind of

478
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: like trapping activities. But yeah, there would never be a year.

479
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: I mean from the time I was thirteen nine, there

480
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: would never be a year when I wouldn't get a deer,

481
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: you know, like I would. I would always get a

482
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: deer with somehow usually you know, on him with my

483
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: bow and then and then getting with my gun. Um.

484
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: But no, I wasn't like a two deer year guy.

485
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: I remember later in college up in the up of Michigan.

486
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: I remember the first time I shot two deer today.

487
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: I killed it falling with my bow in the morning,

488
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: and then killed a little Michigan eight point buck in

489
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: the evening, and I felt like I was hunting guy

490
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: that that didn't happen. And then I killed another buck

491
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: that year, like another little Michian ate with my gun

492
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: that year, and that was like yeah, I mean that

493
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: was just like sort of like the kind of like

494
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: quit hunting after them, right. There was no more that

495
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: could be done in the hunting world besides that. And

496
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: I remember that we had eating all of those deer

497
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: by Christmas break. Okay, we just ate deer meat and

498
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: hunted deer. So it was. But here's the thing. I

499
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: wasn't trapping anymore. I had quit trapping. Its trappers. They

500
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: started out trapping, but they were more interesting hunting, um.

501
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 1: And as the fur prices went down, they just got

502
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: less and less interesting in it. It was funny because

503
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: there was one year around when I was twelve or thirteen.

504
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: I kind of like didn't really trapped that much that year,

505
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: and they went out and caught to mink one day

506
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: and mink, we're worth like forty bucks and um, and

507
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: I was so overcome by jealousy that I got backing

508
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: hard to trapping and then trapped until I was twenty two.

509
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: And you're what ages of your brother? What ages worried

510
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: brothers both older than you, They're like staggered out like

511
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: a year and a half in the year half, So

512
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: I was I was the little brother, um, which was

513
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: it was kind of a luxury because you wind up

514
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: getting all the get all the privileges early. You know,

515
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: my parents didn't enforce multiple sets of rules. Was too confusing,

516
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: so as my older brother when it would become like

517
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: okay for him to do something, they were just like, okay,

518
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: it's okay for everyone to do that too. So like

519
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: in high school, I had no al what do you

520
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: call we're supposed to be home at a certain time,

521
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: not alibi. I never had one of those either curfew curfew,

522
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: So like in high school, I was like I didn't

523
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: have a curfew anymore because obviously my older brothers like

524
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: doesn't because he's in college, and so they would just

525
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: be rather than having all these rules, they would just

526
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: get that rule. So what it meant was I could

527
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: do it kind of like more, you know, I was

528
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: able to get in and do more kinds of hunting

529
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: and have more sort of freedom out in the woods

530
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: earlier than he did, even because you know, because he

531
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: was there, he was like the first one coming up.

532
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: Kind of like I know with our own kids that

533
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: you tend to be a little bit slower than when

534
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: the other ones coming. You realize that knowing nothing bad

535
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: has happened to anyone, yet you kind of caught them

536
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: all loose. So I had like a lot of freedom

537
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,239
Speaker 1: be around out in the woods and to do just

538
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: to be gone all day wandering around. You know, what

539
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: are your your memories? I have always I've written about

540
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: this before, and I know you have to just early

541
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: memories that you're I don't know, with your dad, I've

542
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: got little things like what we packed for lunch, and

543
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: how he'd sit and where he how he told the

544
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: shooting sticks, and how I'd miss all the dear good memories. Yeah,

545
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: my mind is packed full of stuff like that about

546
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: like he use just the food thing you brought it,

547
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: like what you have from that prior to hunting season,

548
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: prior to like small game opening, he would fill milk

549
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: crates up with like a collection of food. So that

550
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: would be prunes with the pits in him for what

551
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: he'd like to have those in his tree stand just

552
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: to like keep busy eating something. Jars of jar glass,

553
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: jars of jard Venison, bags of jerky, um, boxes of

554
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: saltine crackers. He had some way he would buy that,

555
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: like those huge blocks of cheese that are given out

556
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: like government che met a guy that would sell my

557
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: dad his government cheese, so some of that and he

558
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: would just like get this. I remember it was like

559
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: a big part of the year be filling these milk

560
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: crates up with food that was going to live in

561
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: the back of his jeep grand charity as we hunted

562
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: that year and um. And he would build these when

563
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: we went camping to hunt up on public lay into

564
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: the north, he would build these like old timey lll

565
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: bean camps where you're lashing yeah sticks and and wash.

566
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: It would make like wash basin platforms that it's like

567
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: crazy ship that would take be so labor intensive that

568
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: just like not how we camp now now you tend

569
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: to camp with like you stead of stoving them, you know,

570
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: in the dirt and sleep in the dirt. And it's

571
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: just really simple, but it's kind of annoyingly elaborate. Old

572
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: timey camps remember it all. And there's just little things

573
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: like that. My dad used to pack toast cheese crackers.

574
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: There's orange. I just remember, like in the morning and

575
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: like the pre dawn morning. I remember opening those and

576
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: him getting pissed at me because they were loud, and

577
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: I'll be crunching them. Because little things like that I

578
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: always remember. And I wonder how when you get to

579
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: this level, when you get to this kind of hunting

580
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: that we're doing now, you miss those little those little details,

581
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: the things aren't special, that aren't a nostalgic just because

582
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: how many you know how many days a year this

583
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: year if you go on, had been down the field,

584
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: Oh man, a lot a lot. I do miss them.

585
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: You know what I'm gonna what I'm nostalgic or is

586
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: not so much that And I'm sure that will come later.

587
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: Um to be nostalgic for that time with my dad. Uh,

588
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: what I think about now in terms of my dad

589
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: was I think about how just kind of like off

590
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: we got were always work. He was a demanding person,

591
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: um very difficult person, a high expectations. Okay, so I

592
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: resented that a lot, and now only see there was

593
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: like a mathod to his madness, right like I see

594
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: now where he was getting. Now that I had kids,

595
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: I understand what he was getting. He didn't care, He

596
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: wasn't interested in being anyone's friend, like I think in

597
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 1: his mind he was like, I need to raise pete

598
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: bowl that are self sufficient in hard working and then

599
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: know how to figure it out. And that's all I'm

600
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: really doing. I don't care about anyone having fond memories

601
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: of this whole thing, of anyone feeling like we're buddies,

602
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: Like that's not my priority. My priority is like I'm

603
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: trying to produce something here. I'll produced it at any cost.

604
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: And I resented it, but now I understand it. So

605
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: but I have yet to get to a point where

606
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: I'm like nostalgic for those times. What I am nostalgic

607
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: for is for those times in my twenties early twenties

608
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: when when we were with me and my brothers and

609
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: our buddies from growing up, we're sort of just starting

610
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: to realize there's this big outdoor world beyond the handful

611
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: activities that we participated in. Like that we you know,

612
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: we knew like the spots we hunted, the spots we fish,

613
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: but also we started like would drive a long ways

614
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: to go to a certain river, you know, um, and

615
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: just started like really kind of like stretch our legs

616
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: and check out new stuff and just go hunt stuff

617
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: we've never hunted before, and fish stuff we've never hunted for.

618
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: Drive down to the floor to keys and try to

619
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: catch a bone fish, you're like, you know, go up

620
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: and try to catch a summer run steel heads somewhere.

621
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 1: That's what I'm nostalgic for, is that like early exploration

622
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: where you hadn't seen anything yet and it was just

623
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: all like this kind of moment where you're like, holy shit,

624
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? Like this is all out there? Yeah,

625
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: I thought the only thing was out there was an

626
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: eight mile radius in my house. Could you imagine twenty

627
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: years ago this type of life that you're leading now,

628
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: this this adventuring public speaking writing a leadership position in

629
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: that world and hunting world. No, not really, man and no,

630
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: because I think that if you look at every however,

631
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: you want to chop it up, if you want to

632
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: chop up life. For the point I'm trying to make

633
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 1: a say, chop up life in five years or ten

634
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: year increments, There's never been a point at which I

635
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been if I looked into crystal ball and

636
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: saw the next five or next ten years. There's never

637
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: been a point at which I wouldn't have been like

638
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: shocked by what I saw, and I wondered how that

639
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: would possibly have come to be. I anticipate that that

640
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: feeling might end at some point in time, but so

641
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: far has not. I feel the same way I would

642
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: have like in personal life too, like that I would

643
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: have like three children because no, wait, I was you

644
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: know when we I think when we first podcast at

645
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: a media last year, I was just just a new dad.

646
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: I'd probably had been a month, and even up to

647
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: that point, I didn't believe it my entire life. I thought, well,

648
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: there's no way I'm going to have a kid. I

649
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: see other people that have kids, a lot of other

650
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: people that I have kids, But I don't think that

651
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: I'm well suited enough for that thing. I'm ever be

652
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: prepared for that. I'll never know what that feels like.

653
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: And I kind of just I'd like to point out

654
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: and interrupt that you might not be prepared for I don't,

655
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: and I don't mean that I agree. I can agree

656
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, I mean I still did this day.

657
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: I go home and I see this kid there, and

658
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: I think I'm lucky to have this, But what is this?

659
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: How do I handle this? What five years ago me

660
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: would have just looked on this like some kind of

661
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: fictional fairy tale that I had written. I'm sure is

662
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: that something you feel and you're when you're in Guyana,

663
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: were sitting in a place like this and you just

664
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: try to think about that kid that was squirrel hunting,

665
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: or even the kid that was exploring from from graduate school.

666
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: I mean, is there a comparison. No, I don't think

667
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: about it like that. And I think the reason why

668
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: is because it all had because I was there for

669
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: it all. So it wasn't like that Chris, like like

670
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: that crystal ball feeling is if you, if you a man,

671
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: magine looking ahead. You didn't see all the steps, you know,

672
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: But because you're kind of like there for every moment.

673
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: It all has this sort of logical progression to it. Um,

674
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: there's a there's a I can't remember who the writer was,

675
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: but there was a writer that describe the process of

676
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 1: writing a book as that they equated it to driving

677
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: at night where you can never see any farther than

678
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 1: your headlights, but somehow you just keep moving and eventually

679
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: get there. And I feel that like that their analogy

680
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: about writing a book is kind of truth with your life,

681
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: where you just see like what's ahead of you, but

682
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: at all every little step, how do you kind of

683
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: make sense? And you just keep moving along and the

684
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: things immediately in front of you make sense, and then

685
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you arrive somewhere else. What's interesting now,

686
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: as if I've pushed towards, if I've pushed towards sort

687
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: of these like pinnacles of hunting, and to say that

688
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't want to act like, um, I don't.

689
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: I don't want to seem to be suggesting that there's

690
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: like kinds of hunting that that are great, and I

691
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: do kinds of hunting that are great, and other people

692
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: do kinds of hunting that are just fun. I'm not

693
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: trying to say that, but like like but like sort

694
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: of and these attics not the right word either, but

695
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: really kind of like challenging kind of hunts where you're

696
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: like deeply immersed in the experience for days on end

697
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: and just focused on doing something very difficult in a

698
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: pretty wild place. Okay, like I've been able to do

699
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, but right now, now that my

700
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: kids are getting a little bit older, I'm actually looking

701
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: forward now too, sort of regressing back to like the

702
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: very introductory stuff, like to be totally to be totally

703
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: honest with you, like outside of purse professional things like

704
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: you know, like I sort of my ideas and at

705
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: work are kind of based around hunting is what I do.

706
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: But to be honest with you, to go back to

707
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: the to the to that farm where I killed my

708
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,479
Speaker 1: first dear and take my kids out there squirrel hunting

709
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: on a September, dude, like that that's the hunt I want, Like,

710
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: that's the hon I want to do, and I'm trying

711
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: to really find a way to I'm trying to find

712
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: a way to be able to do that a lot more,

713
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: um even though I have a lot of you know,

714
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: I still have a lot of desires to do the

715
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 1: other kind of stuff. I'm trying to find a way

716
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: to like add that in because I don't really know

717
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: that I want to take my kids and and introduce

718
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: them to I want them to see all layers of it, right,

719
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: and not just have it be that, Oh, you know,

720
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: I know some guys have this big private ranch. We're

721
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: gonna go out to a private ranch and hunt turkeys

722
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: and you can call in ten times a day. Uh.

723
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's like what their first experience

724
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: it should be. Really, I don't know. I feel like

725
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted them to see it sort of

726
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: like how I did it, because everyone feels that that

727
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: there's what most people feel that how that there's some

728
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: value and how you were raised. Right. I think that

729
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: when people, when parents and people in other ways somehow

730
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: get rid of the idea that there was any value

731
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: and how they were raised and try to just do

732
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: everything in this novel fashion or that they try to

733
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: like read about how to do it, and they don't

734
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: think that there was that there's any sense or rhyme

735
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: or reason and what their own experiences were that made

736
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: them a person that they might be proud of. Like,

737
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: if you're the kind of person, if you've become something

738
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 1: that you're proud of, you have to go look at like,

739
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: what are the factors that made me this way? Not

740
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: that all of it was great, but there has to

741
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: be some components to it that were important and um,

742
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: and we're just talking about like like a hunting life

743
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: and life spent outdoors and life spent around Wow, Like

744
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: I just I can't get away from the feeling that

745
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: there's something about want around a little chunk of woods,

746
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: the two looking for squirrels because a lot of the

747
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: people that I enjoy most in life and want to

748
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: spend the most time hunting and fishing with that's how

749
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: they grew up. There has to be something that has

750
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: to do something to you to kind of make you um,

751
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: to kind of prime you for the bigger stuff. Like well,

752
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 1: I think and I know you probably don't talk about

753
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: this much, you know, because when you're a podcasting you're

754
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: learning about people and talking to them. But I think

755
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,439
Speaker 1: in a way those of us, I think you more

756
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: than more than most that have a platform. And honey,

757
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: are you doing that? And the and with here with

758
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: meat either with the podcast with the TV show with

759
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: with social media? Are you leading people down the path

760
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 1: that you've been led without being able to take them there?

761
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: I try to I try to if Yeah, I think

762
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: that I like try to celebrate, um, some of the

763
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: things that are more accessible to people, like like in

764
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 1: I'm gonna handle that question a couple of ways, because one,

765
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: I try to celebrate the kind of outdoor activities that

766
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: are easily accessible to people. Um, I'll go and every

767
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: year we go to fish catfish. You know, we go

768
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: to fish one and two pound channel cats. I take

769
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: my kids to fish with their uncle Mat for one

770
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: and two pound channel cats. Like I try to put

771
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: as much of an emphasis on that, which means a

772
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: lot to me and I love doing it, or with

773
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 1: small game and squirrel, and I try to celebrate those

774
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: experiences so that everyone sees it. There's like try to

775
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: help people see the value in the resources and activities

776
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: that they're able to engage in. The Other thing I

777
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: tried to do, like if I have sort of a

778
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: you know, a mission. Yeah, If if there's a thing

779
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: that I would like try to convince people love, it

780
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: would be that I would try to teach people something

781
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: that I learned very slowly, and I wish I maybe

782
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: would have learned it a little bit quicker. Would be

783
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: that you need to look and find out in this

784
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: world what you love, okay, and identify the feeling you

785
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 1: have as love. I was obsessed with nature as a kid.

786
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with animals as a kid. I wanted

787
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: to be out hunting and fishing all the time. It

788
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: took me a long time to just make the very

789
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: obvious realization that this is something that I loved, That

790
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: these things in these places where things that I loved

791
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: and had a lot of affection for, and that I

792
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: would ultimately be willing to make sacrifices on the behalf

793
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: of those things. Better me we I had no idea

794
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: about um, and grown up, it just wasn't something I

795
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: really thought of thought about that there in my mind. Resources,

796
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: wildlife resources, landscape resources. In my mind, they had just

797
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: kind of fallen from the sky and they were there,

798
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,439
Speaker 1: not because anyone did anything to make them be there

799
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: or not, not that you'd make them be there, not

800
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: that anyone did anything to help ensure that they were there.

801
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: It just it just was right almost as like it's

802
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: almost just like biblical sense that it just always was there,

803
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: always would be there. And it took me a long

804
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: time and to see some loss in fact, to go like,

805
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: oh man, this thing that I loved so dearly is tenuous,

806
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 1: like it's not a given that it will always be around.

807
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: And so I try to like if I could have

808
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: some thing that I could do, it would be helped

809
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: ease people through that transition of being like, yes, admit,

810
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,919
Speaker 1: just admit to yourself and you love it because everyone knows,

811
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: like you love your children and love your wife and

812
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: would take a bullet for him, like literally would take

813
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: a bullet for him, right, you take a bullet for

814
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 1: a lot of your best friends. And so to go

815
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: and work and be like, here's this other thing I

816
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: love too. It's not it's like it's not as like

817
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: sort of immediately tangible like my kids. You know, there's

818
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: just a little contained units that live in my house.

819
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: It's just different. We're talking about landscape wide ship. But

820
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: to recognize that um, that that these things that we

821
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: care about um and that give our lives so much

822
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: meaning like require something of us. Do you feel like

823
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: that that initial feeling when you're a kid and I

824
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: had the same thing we had public land up. It

825
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: was just where we went. There's no philosophy or ideology

826
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: behind the reasons why I loved it. I just love

827
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: being that went trees like the next ship that we enjoyed.

828
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: We play a game called remember the show named that tune. Yeah,

829
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: of course we had a game Chopped that Tree. And

830
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: you say, like Dan, I believe I can chop that tree,

831
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: and three strikes you taken it, just like Daous. That's

832
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: the kind of guys I didn't have that would like

833
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: to try to give to my children a little bit.

834
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, but I don't think he went from the message.

835
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: I don't think you can get to where you are

836
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: and I am of that appreciation the devotion to it,

837
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: and I think it probably goes back to the headlights

838
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: in the dark road. You can't get to the devotion

839
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: that you currently have or that I currently have, without

840
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: first having the feeling of it being this serendipitous thing

841
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: that you happen to live on the earth with, you

842
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: happen to be created on the same plane as this landscape.

843
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: I don't know that you can have a devotion that

844
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: as pure as what yours seem to be off that

845
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: other steps. Yeah, it's probably true. But I think the

846
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: thing that I tried to do, or I like to

847
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: imagine myself doing, would be that because I have the time, UM,

848
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: because I have the time and sort of a developed ability,

849
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: you know, to articulate some of these things, um, and

850
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: and have the luxury to be able to spend professional

851
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: time on it. And I'm trying to learn how to

852
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: articulate certain viewpoints that you can provide people with a

853
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 1: little bit of short of a short cut in the

854
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: thought process. Where I think that, um, because I know

855
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: that there are things that could have been said to

856
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: me when I was in my late teens. Um, there

857
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: were things that that could have been said to me

858
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: that would have helped me to understand uh, a little

859
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: bit of what I eventually became to understand, and much quicker.

860
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: And it would have helped me make some better choices

861
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: and not have made some of the mistakes I made

862
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: in the woods. And I don't mean mistakes, I mean

863
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: moral transgressions that I would have not done some unethical

864
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: things that I did. Uh, had someone took in a

865
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: taken a minute to talk me through some of the things,

866
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: like if I could talk to myself, then now I

867
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: would probably give myself a swift kick, and then I

868
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: would explain some stuff, you know, like I had, um,

869
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to be a very successful trapper,

870
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: right and and there was like a financial component to trapping,

871
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: and I would take shortcuts. I would at times play

872
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: pretty fast and in loose with the rules, this sort

873
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: of arrogance that I knew better or that just like

874
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: a kind of agreed, but not even like thought out.

875
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: It wasn't like I laid in bed and had this

876
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 1: sort of debate like well, here's the pros of being

877
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, here's the pros of being a bad person,

878
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: here's the car. It's just like impulsive stuff. Did I

879
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: not wonder how I had got there? You know? And

880
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: none of it was like truly I never did anything

881
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: it was like actually damaging but just looking now, um,

882
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: looking now, yeah, I did some things that I'm like

883
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: a little bit a little bit embarrassed. What don't you

884
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: feel like when you start round trapp when you start

885
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: hunting or maybe trapping the same way. I've never done it,

886
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: but it could be when you start hunting, you don't

887
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 1: unless someone has specifically said this to you, you don't

888
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: think about the value of life. There's more to the

889
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 1: activity than the value of life. You're learning how to

890
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: do so many things. You're you're learning about nature, you're

891
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: learning about animals, You're learned about your own abilities to

892
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: do things. Shoot a gun, shoot a bow, walk in

893
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: the woods while quietly sit for a long time. Be

894
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: patient that the value of the life on the other

895
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: end of the gun or the or the archery tackle.

896
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: Doesn't it There's no room for that in the beginning,

897
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: because it's almost too heavy when you start. You know,

898
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: that's a that's such a heavy thing to say, Like

899
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 1: you're nine or ten or eleven or twelve years old,

900
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,919
Speaker 1: let's talk about the value of this life in this

901
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: grandly complicated exercise. I think that I always understood the

902
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: value of what I now think of as the ness,

903
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: meaning I understood the value of dearness. Yeah, I understood

904
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: the value of like muskrat ness, the first animal that

905
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: I've really just became just kind of like fascinated with.

906
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: And one understands the bad where river otters right well,

907
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: because river rotters are really valuable, but I like really

908
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: wanted no river rotters, and in seeing them was so

909
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: exciting that I understood sort of like the otterness and

910
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: how much, but no, it was. It's only much later

911
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: that you untangled all. But I think that the important part, though,

912
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: and I think it's like a thing that hunters understand

913
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: and people that don't hunt don't understand, would be that

914
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: I think hunters put a very high value on elkness, dearness, turkeiness,

915
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: sort of the idea of them or the well being

916
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: of the thing in perpetuity, and not a ton of

917
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: individual value, where I find that animal rights activists put

918
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:50,439
Speaker 1: a tremendous value on the individual nous with no real

919
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say no real would would generally with very

920
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:58,959
Speaker 1: little understanding of the nest. So a hunter might look

921
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: and say, like a certain type of hunter might look

922
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: and say, yeah, I kill a deer every year. Let

923
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: let me take my friend Doug durn All right, Doug

924
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: Durren kills a deer or two every year, but three

925
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: sixty five days out of the year, Doug durn is

926
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: looking at his family's farm and and also his state's

927
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:29,479
Speaker 1: wildlife policies, and thinking about what will make what will

928
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: allow the deer on my farm in my county, in

929
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: my state to continue to thrive and to continue to

930
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: hold cultural value and what will allow us to have great, dear,

931
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: healthy deer herd going into the next generation, next generation,

932
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: next generation. He sees that and he would take a

933
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: bullet for that notion. But does he feel bad shooting

934
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: an individual deer? No, because the nest, like a dear

935
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: ness matters. So I think that that's things an animal

936
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: rights person would look at the picture of a dead

937
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: deer and they don't see the things that created that,

938
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: the situations that created that, the landscape that created that

939
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: and would allow it, and what sort of what what

940
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: parameters need to be met, what what things need to

941
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 1: be satisfied in order to continue the producing that they

942
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: just see, here's this individual thing that died, and um,

943
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 1: it's just two different world views that can't really be reconciled. Well,

944
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: that's what I never wanted to start this talking about

945
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: the idea of what this podcast is going to be,

946
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: But this is a good segue into that. I think

947
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: this the idea that it's called the hunting collective and

948
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: that there is a collective idea of what we are.

949
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: What you just described very well. I think I want

950
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: to try to answer the question, is there a way

951
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: to take those two worldviews, the idea of wildlife in

952
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: its totality as hunters see the value, and the idea

953
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,959
Speaker 1: of the individual having value, having maybe more value than

954
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: than the whole. Taking those two ideas and finding a

955
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: middle road and saying we both value the thing, but

956
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 1: we value at a different end of the spectrum. You

957
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: value it's cuteness, it's it's it's life, it's you know,

958
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: you always see like the it's individuality, the sanctimonious nature

959
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: of the way it lives and dies, like it should

960
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: be able to live and die in a wild way.

961
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: And maybe hunters say it should be able to live

962
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: in perpetuity, maybe maybe a few of them have to die,

963
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: and what some would consider an humane way or an

964
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: unnatural way. That's all probably a whole another deeper level

965
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 1: of the argument, whether it is unnatural or not hunt something,

966
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: but the idea of that value system. I find that

967
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: we're on the same plane and much the same as

968
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,720
Speaker 1: a vegan is on the same plane as a hunter.

969
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: You're both trying to mitigate or or meter in some

970
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: way your consumption, trying to find a way to better

971
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: understand how your consumptive habits affect the world. Around you

972
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do. And so I think in

973
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: the same way that the animal rights actifice and the

974
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: hunter disagree, maybe the vegan and and the hunter disagree

975
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: in the same way, But there's you're living with the

976
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: same reality that this is an important and valuable asset

977
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: to the natural world. How do you feel like there is?

978
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: How do how do you Is there a middle road

979
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: or isn't there not one? Yeah? I don't. I hope,

980
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: I hope that you explore so much that you wind

981
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: up finding it. But I can't really picture it because

982
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: here's what it would take. Like like, here's what would

983
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: take the bridge the gap. If I were to die

984
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: right now, Okay, I would die feeling that I had

985
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: given something to the idea of American wildlife. Okay, I

986
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: would feel that I had contributed to a system it

987
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: allows for the continued existence of American wildlife. I had

988
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: contributed to it financially, I had contributed to it in

989
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: a sort of um in a sort of spiritual sense,

990
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: and that I feel like I had contribute to it

991
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: to maybe help people see how much it means to

992
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: them and how much it helps them, how much it

993
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: represents the world that they believe in and want to

994
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: have around. And I would feel that I had contributed,

995
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: even like even in a much more minor way and

996
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: some kind of like policy sense right about how should

997
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 1: we be doing this? How should we govern ourselves? But

998
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: I think that if you went and asked, you know,

999
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: if you went and asked an animal rights advocate, hey

1000
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: has this person contributed American wildlife? I think that there

1001
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: was nothing but a trail of death. But that too

1002
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: gets into so much more difficult things because that too,

1003
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: another commonality that like brings us together but also tears

1004
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: as a part is the idea of wild animals because

1005
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: if you it's much more upsetting to people too. For

1006
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: let's just reason animal rights, like as though it's just

1007
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: this monolithic thing that all animal rights people are the

1008
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: same way. But like an animal rights person is gonna

1009
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: get more upset about the idea of a wild animal

1010
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: dying because they value wild animals more. And it's like,

1011
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: here's the thing, I value wild animals so much more.

1012
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: So there's another way, like how are we ever going

1013
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: to see eye to eye on at Because if you

1014
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: if you think that, like if deer hunting is upsetting

1015
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: to you, we're we're killing more cows in a day. Yes,

1016
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: So it's like, how could you even live? Like if

1017
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: if an animal rights and this getting little off track here,

1018
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: but if an animal rights person feels that all life

1019
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: is absolutely equal and a cow and a deer and

1020
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: the same thing as a person, then I would have

1021
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: to point out and be like, you are um spineless,

1022
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: because if I thought that we were systematically slaughtering hundreds

1023
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:49,439
Speaker 1: of thousands of Americans right now in factories, I would

1024
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: take up arms. So we've got we've gotten to taken

1025
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: up arms against the cow murners. So but you're the

1026
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: point you're making is that deer hunting is down the

1027
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: list of things to be Yeah, yeah, point, Yeah, I'm

1028
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: I'm being I want to back that up and saying

1029
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: but being ridiculous a demist or something that seems a

1030
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 1: little ridiculous in them. But the point is all these

1031
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: places where we have common out here, Like I like

1032
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: wild animals more than domestic ones. They mean more to me.

1033
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 1: I like to watch them, They're the ones I'd like

1034
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: to eat. So it's like, and I find I find

1035
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: that in common with people who have a real problem

1036
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: with honey is oftentimes they value well the animals more too.

1037
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: So it's like here we are being like, I love animals.

1038
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: I hope they exist into the future. I especially like

1039
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 1: the wild ones. They'll be like yeah, yeah, like and

1040
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: I eat them. They're like, you what, you bastard? Suff

1041
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: a bitch. Yeah. I don't know where the intellectual hurdle lies.

1042
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: Maybe it's an emotional hurdle moreover than than than something

1043
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: that just that people emotional hurdle because it's it's just confusing,

1044
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: it's just confusing. It's like these ideas are talking about

1045
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: are so confusing. People have an easy time understanding them

1046
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: if they're looking at like an indigenous group. We have

1047
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: a thing where we're able to say, I think that

1048
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: there's a thing in the American psyche of people who

1049
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: think about this a lot. We're able to look at

1050
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,919
Speaker 1: an indigenous group and say it's okay, like it's good

1051
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: that they hunt, It's okay that they hunt because they

1052
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: feel a deep connection to the animals and almost spiritual

1053
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: connection to the animals. And I would say, yeah, yeah,

1054
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm right there with them, right there with them. It's

1055
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: something that I have devoted my entire life too. Is

1056
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: something that my father devoted a good amount of his

1057
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 1: life too. Is something that my paternal and maternal grandfathers

1058
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: were interested in. I carry with me like I have

1059
01:02:55,040 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: a sense of of um ownership for in deep concern

1060
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 1: for the well being of the animals that sustained me.

1061
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: What trips people up is there's this idea that, well,

1062
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: you don't need to hunt. And I always wanted like, okay,

1063
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 1: so who who is the cultural force here? Who's going

1064
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: to step in and declare when people need to hunt

1065
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: and don't need to hunt? There are when when the

1066
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 1: Spanish can keus the doors were in the American Southwest,

1067
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: there are letters that were written back to Spain by

1068
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: people on the ground and the American Southwest complaining about

1069
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: how the Native Americans would not stop hunting. And these letters,

1070
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: I honestly say, I can't figure it out. We gave

1071
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 1: him homes, we gave him livestock, we taught him to farm.

1072
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: These people insist on roaming around hunting. So would would

1073
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: some of these people go like, okay, that's the point

1074
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: at which once they had access to another lifestyle, they

1075
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: should have quit. They should have ended their life by

1076
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: that logic. Should we be striving for a time when

1077
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 1: we would ease the wolf off of meat? Is that

1078
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: the ultimate goal? And of course not being like like

1079
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: I entered into a highly theoretical realm. But if, if,

1080
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: if all society is pushing towards this point when you

1081
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 1: graduate into not hunting, who is the arbiter of when

1082
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: people should make the leap? Well, I thank you. I

1083
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: think that comes to the next thing I wanted to

1084
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 1: talk to you about it, and it is. It's an

1085
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: interesting question. There's the arbiter when they're looking at that

1086
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: the point of arbitration, you know, you look at British Columbia.

1087
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: The recent bear said, yeah, that was an arbitration of

1088
01:04:58,160 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: when can you hunt? And what can you hunt? And

1089
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: what are the reasons you can go? Um, And so

1090
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 1: I think as hunters we now have to better work

1091
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 1: as a group to define what hunting is for us

1092
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 1: and what acceptable forms of hunting can can maintain themselves

1093
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: in this conversation, because trophy hunting or the term trophy hunting,

1094
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 1: which is a very difficult and we'll try here, We're

1095
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: gonna try right the trap or we'll find a bug

1096
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: before we get finished talking about it. I think that

1097
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: that idea and we'll talk about it the idea of itself,

1098
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: but that idea has become in the popular sense, not

1099
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: the same type of honey that you're talking about, not

1100
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,479
Speaker 1: the same type of ancestral urge that you're talking about.

1101
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 1: So to define the urge that you have, which in

1102
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: my mind is a legitimate ancestral and just just a

1103
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: lifestyle choice, to define that and then to define the other,

1104
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: like what parts of our honey community are unacceptable and

1105
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: the ideas that we're just not going to change who

1106
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 1: we are, But what what parts of the honey community

1107
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: have already changed? Beyond that incestral word that you have

1108
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: than I have and that folks haven't, and beyond the

1109
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: feeling of I've got to protect this thing, I've got

1110
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: to protect the idea of hunting, the idea of wildlife. Um,

1111
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: how many hunters are thinking more about the size of

1112
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: the animal than those types of things? And does that

1113
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: disqualify them from this conversation? I think that you would

1114
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: have to have a much more sophisticated and nuanced lexicon

1115
01:06:54,200 --> 01:07:00,080
Speaker 1: to begin talking about kinds of hunting and types of honey,

1116
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 1: because it just winds up being it winds up being

1117
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: way too complex. Right now, for instance, UM, we're out

1118
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 1: hunting deer, We're out looking for large mature bucks. Now,

1119
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,919
Speaker 1: I would rather get any bucked in a large mature one,

1120
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: or what am I trying to say? If it came

1121
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: down to it and I needed the meat, I would

1122
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: just shoot any buck. But if I can have, if

1123
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: I have the time to put into it and have

1124
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: the location to do it, I'm also gonna try to

1125
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: find a large mature one because I'm gonna eat the meat,

1126
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: and I like to have the antlers around if I

1127
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 1: didn't eat the meat. Let me approach this different. But

1128
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 1: sees you a big giant buck, and you said to me,

1129
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 1: God comes down, puts a gun to my head, says

1130
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 1: you can take that head. You can take that meat.

1131
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 1: Can't take both. Every single time, I would take the meat,

1132
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 1: not just from the pragmatic standpoint, but morally, I would

1133
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 1: feel like that would be my choice. Okay, So I

1134
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 1: would just do it naturally because I'd be like, well,

1135
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 1: I want to meet me, and that's what our family eats,

1136
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, I would do it sort of.

1137
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,839
Speaker 1: I have a moral obligation of like boild be maximum value.

1138
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: Okay's like the maximum used to like the maximum way

1139
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 1: to pay like the greatest respect to the idea of

1140
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: the thing, and like having a pragmatic approach of like, yeah,

1141
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 1: there's a ton of calories there, there's like a kind

1142
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: of approaching there. I'm gonna utilize that whether utilize something

1143
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 1: small symbolic portion of the animal, which is the antlers.

1144
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:49,719
Speaker 1: So time and time again, I'm gonna make that choice.

1145
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: If you wanted to talk about a good kind like

1146
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 1: in my mind, like a good kind of deer hunting, um,

1147
01:08:55,400 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: just specific to deer, I would have to say that

1148
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: that when someone was faced with that choice, I think

1149
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:07,919
Speaker 1: if they said, screw the meat, I'm gonna take the antlers,

1150
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: I feel that you might need to that you might

1151
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: need to re examine your perspective on it. But but

1152
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 1: it's it's all it's it's all too complicated because there's

1153
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: more factors in it than just that, Like am I

1154
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 1: a worst person or a better person? Because if I

1155
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: shoot a buck I keep the antlers on a bookcase

1156
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: in my house. I feel that probably I feel that

1157
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 1: it's probably because to me, what does it wind up meaning?

1158
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: To me? It's just winds up being this like some

1159
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: this symbol of the antlers, this is token of the

1160
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: animal that I always look at and remember. Now, if

1161
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: I knew that I had wasted the meat, I would

1162
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:46,680
Speaker 1: look at that set of antlers and all would do

1163
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 1: is bring me shame. But as that look at the

1164
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: things that in my home, I look at him like, dude,

1165
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 1: that was like the greatest trip, the coolest thing. Always

1166
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: remember that place, remember the people I'm with, And it

1167
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,760
Speaker 1: winds up being like this emblem of something that I'm

1168
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: very proud of, them feel very good about. So to

1169
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: act like to be like, oh, he you you have

1170
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 1: hunting trophies in your home, therefore you must be a

1171
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: trophy hunter, It's like, I don't really know what that means.

1172
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: This is a trophy of something that I care a

1173
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 1: lot about. It would take a bullet for that's the

1174
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: That's the I think that's the point. Do we are

1175
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:27,639
Speaker 1: we able as a hunting community to say the difference

1176
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 1: trophy hunting is the idea of trophy hunting that there's

1177
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: no value in the life of the animal besides what's

1178
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 1: on top of its head is wrong like that the

1179
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: valuation of the animal is I only want to kill

1180
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 1: it if it's or two. I value that and I

1181
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 1: don't value the other being the meat or the experience

1182
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 1: or whatever. Are we willing to say that that. Let's

1183
01:10:56,720 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: judge whether you're in our boat as hunters, and that

1184
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 1: ancestral boat and that boat of of people that are

1185
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: wildlife stewards and conservations, we're all in a boat. Are

1186
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: we willing to push the people out of the boat

1187
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 1: who do not have or share the same values for

1188
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: the life that you do? Right? I like the boat?

1189
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 1: Now do you use it? I stole it from you? Well, yeah,

1190
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 1: and I had put it one time would be like, um,

1191
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: people say like, we're all on the same boat, and

1192
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, one of the guys in this boat is

1193
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: shooting holes through the hole. Let's push that motherfucker out.

1194
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 1: But that's that that that means all sabotaging. That's been

1195
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: the most interesting thing for me always to think about,

1196
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 1: how do we determine if there was a plank on

1197
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 1: our hunting boat. We're all in the same boat and

1198
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: there's a plank, and we're determining who's gonna walk the plank,

1199
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: And I say to you, do you value the life

1200
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 1: of the animal? And you say yes. So my second

1201
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: question is what parts of that life do you value,

1202
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: and you get that question wrong and you fucking walk

1203
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 1: the plank. Okay, the only way you can the only

1204
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 1: way I can start doing it is I tend to

1205
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: like go towards extremes, so because extremes are helpful, and

1206
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 1: this causes a lot of friction when I'm arguing with

1207
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:17,799
Speaker 1: my wife about things, because I'll tend to um instead

1208
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 1: of dealing in the gray that we're actually focused on.

1209
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:24,600
Speaker 1: I'll be like, well, let's imagine that we each pursued

1210
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: extremes of what we're talking about and see what that

1211
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,639
Speaker 1: would look like. Okay, And to give you a sense,

1212
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: like we're having an issue about the kids, say like

1213
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 1: safety of the kid, my extreme um that I would

1214
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 1: be like, my extreme will be that you're keeping them

1215
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 1: in a bubble, all right, you're keeping them in a

1216
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 1: bubble and in this and her extreme would be that

1217
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 1: you're arming them, you know, with sharp with with a

1218
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 1: bunch of sharp objects that are laced with disease. Okay,

1219
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 1: So we just like to think that. So in order

1220
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 1: to take an extreme of like a kind of hunting

1221
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 1: that I really don't understand and that I think might

1222
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: be getting at what you're talking about, the value and

1223
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: yam or not. It's like, let's say, when you hear

1224
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:13,560
Speaker 1: about a case of high like high fence hunting. Okay,

1225
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:17,759
Speaker 1: in a very small enclosure where a deer is raised

1226
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 1: up in a place and then it's turned loose into

1227
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 1: a small enclosure on the day that a gentleman is

1228
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:26,719
Speaker 1: going to go up and shoot it. Now, he would

1229
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 1: have had ample of opportunities to shoot it when it

1230
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 1: was in the back of a truck. But they're opting

1231
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 1: in order to sort of lend this appearance of hunting.

1232
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,680
Speaker 1: They're gonna turn it loose into some sort of enclosure

1233
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 1: where this person can go pretend to hunt it. They hunted.

1234
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:46,719
Speaker 1: They don't want the meat, They just want the rack.

1235
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:48,639
Speaker 1: And so they get this thing mounted on their wall

1236
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: and they hang it on their wall. Now, what are

1237
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 1: they doing when they hanging on their wall. They're not

1238
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: telling people, Oh, that buck you're asking about. Why, let

1239
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 1: me tell you about that buck. They raised it in

1240
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: a little farm, and they turned it loose into an

1241
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 1: enclosure and I pretended to hunt. No, they're putting the

1242
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 1: buck on the wall because they want people to look

1243
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:12,680
Speaker 1: at the buck, and they want people to see the

1244
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 1: opposite of what that buck. Is they want people to

1245
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 1: see this sort of emblem of wildlife, this sort of

1246
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 1: or what this emblem of wildness, this thing that represents challenge,

1247
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 1: this thing that represents cultural value, this thing that represents

1248
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 1: sacrifice and dedication, because that is what a lot of

1249
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 1: people look at a big buck and they think, man,

1250
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 1: you must have done your work. You musty've done everything right,

1251
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 1: you must have been lucky, you must have had a

1252
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:48,680
Speaker 1: great day, you must be very proud of all these accomplishments.

1253
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,759
Speaker 1: And they're putting that symbol out. They know it's a lie,

1254
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 1: but they're putting it out because they know that they're

1255
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 1: dealing in those things. The same way you would go

1256
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,519
Speaker 1: and make a fake the pluma and hang it on

1257
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 1: your wall because you want to revel in other people's

1258
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 1: impressions of what that is, even though you know that

1259
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 1: you're living a lie. In that case, I would look

1260
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 1: and be like, that is a bad kind that's a

1261
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 1: guy shooting a hole in the boat. And the most

1262
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,679
Speaker 1: extreme version, it's not only if you saw this years ago,

1263
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 1: it was like, there's a guy actually pretending to drugged. Dear.

1264
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 1: I never saw that, but I can imagine. Okay, it's

1265
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 1: drugged it can barely stand up. Because he wanted to

1266
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 1: be able to go and show these antlers to his

1267
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 1: peers and have his peers seeing them something that he

1268
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:50,800
Speaker 1: knew was a lot. They got another guest apparents from

1269
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:59,360
Speaker 1: Yanni tell us, be honest, come in and want to go,

1270
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 1: but we might be blocked by all normal ridge itself

1271
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 1: to the actual blake bench sattle that we saw him

1272
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 1: on last night. But down here where you guys are at,

1273
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:20,800
Speaker 1: we're looking at that really helped me oriented. Um. Yeah,

1274
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: we're talked away on the shade on the main ridge. Uh,

1275
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 1: you're still still on the podcast by the way. Um,

1276
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna hang up a little signifier so you guys

1277
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 1: see where we are. But you're on the right ridge.

1278
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: You see us now, Steve's waving a red bag for you. Amy, No,

1279
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 1: we don't see you. Double check back in a little bit.

1280
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 1: We'll check back in a little bit. We're finishing up

1281
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:55,519
Speaker 1: our podcast and a really deep ideological conversation about hunting

1282
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,120
Speaker 1: and it's worth in the modern world. So I don't

1283
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 1: interrupt it anymore, Johnny, my apologies, man, trying to find

1284
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:11,759
Speaker 1: you a bucket on the left. Damn. We'll keep smiling

1285
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 1: and keep laughing. You can't touch your baby and you're

1286
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: ready keep smiling. Anyway, I can agree with you on

1287
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 1: the point of that extreme. I think then we have

1288
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: to figure out how to identify that person within the

1289
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:39,479
Speaker 1: grander scheme of hunting and not just going hunting with

1290
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,320
Speaker 1: that person, because in the U Or I would never

1291
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 1: go do that. That's not something we would. Somebody called you, buddy,

1292
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 1: called you up, say I'm going to high fence ranch.

1293
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:48,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna drug a deer and then we're gonna walk

1294
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 1: around and shoot it. Well, you'd say, I'm good, go

1295
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 1: for it. But I'm good. Some people wouldn't. They're not

1296
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:57,680
Speaker 1: even hunters anyway. Yeah, it's a in the in the

1297
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:00,240
Speaker 1: landscape of things. I'm not going to name the things

1298
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 1: that I think are are tending towards your notion of

1299
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 1: of trophy, but there are many organisms, there are many

1300
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 1: organizations and and things out there in the hunting space

1301
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:15,560
Speaker 1: that support the kind of idea that would tolerate and

1302
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 1: support the kind of idea that you just threw out there,

1303
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: maybe tolerates a better term for it, but would would

1304
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 1: provide tacit support to that hunter who is misinterpreting or

1305
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:31,720
Speaker 1: misrepresenting what hunting is essentially lying about it. And I

1306
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 1: wonder how we either talk those those groups and those

1307
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 1: people out of their idea of hunting, or gradually slowly

1308
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 1: change their philosophies and ideologies get them away from that,

1309
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of it's driven by the

1310
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:54,560
Speaker 1: by dollars. I don't think about the groups UM. I

1311
01:18:54,680 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 1: do think about the people, and I tend to I

1312
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 1: tend to think of like how to UM. I tend

1313
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,240
Speaker 1: not to think of how to conduct a sort of

1314
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 1: purge as much as I tend to think about that

1315
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 1: if we continue to have conversations about what is it

1316
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: that we value, how do we maintain the things that

1317
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:28,639
Speaker 1: we value, that people will make better, that that people

1318
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 1: will come to make better, more sustainable choices. UM. Yeah,

1319
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:39,680
Speaker 1: I don't. Usually I don't find myself thinking about UM

1320
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:45,760
Speaker 1: kicking people out of the club as much as I

1321
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 1: imagine making the UM more clearly, identifying the goals of

1322
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: the club and having people come to see value in that.

1323
01:19:57,400 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 1: And I have a conversation around what it should look

1324
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 1: like and and and we all improve our ways the

1325
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 1: same way that I feel that over the course of

1326
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 1: my life I have. UM. I thought a lot about

1327
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 1: the things I care about and figured out better ways

1328
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:16,800
Speaker 1: to try to maintain the things I care about. Like

1329
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 1: you could go back and look and UM, when I

1330
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 1: was like earlier I mentioned when I was in my

1331
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 1: late teens setting snares in a zone where you weren't

1332
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:31,960
Speaker 1: allowed to set snares, you might look and say, like,

1333
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: here's this guy, he's just you know, let's kick him out,

1334
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 1: and I would have UH. Now I would like to

1335
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: think that, UM, I'm thankful that I wasn't like kicking

1336
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:48,040
Speaker 1: kicked out of something like. I came around to see

1337
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 1: the value in having uh. Wildlife commissions and state fishing

1338
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 1: game agencies work with teams of biologists and policymakers to

1339
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 1: craft as that we all agree to live by so

1340
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 1: that we have an even playing field and don't overexploit

1341
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 1: our resources. I didn't see that at the time. I

1342
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: don't think that I needed like a bullet behind my ear.

1343
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:14,559
Speaker 1: I just needed to have, like some experiences, he spent

1344
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: some time thinking about things to see that if someone

1345
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:21,040
Speaker 1: says don't set a snare in this zone, it's not

1346
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 1: like your position to just defye that there's a way

1347
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:26,559
Speaker 1: you can do, but you can go to the commission

1348
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:29,360
Speaker 1: and you can say, hey, it seems kind of like

1349
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:31,560
Speaker 1: arbitrary and weird, like why can't I do it that

1350
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:33,719
Speaker 1: side of the highway but not this side of the highway?

1351
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: Can you please explain to me how would I go

1352
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 1: about changing this rule. I think that it's not a

1353
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 1: fair rule, it is not well thought out. Whatever, it's

1354
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 1: not just my position to be like screw that rule.

1355
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 1: So I'm glad I wasn't like thrown out um, because

1356
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:51,800
Speaker 1: I eventually came to see the value in that, Like

1357
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:54,600
Speaker 1: I can see value in that type of cooperation. So

1358
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:58,519
Speaker 1: in my mind, it's like, you know the guy that

1359
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: let's just say and I don't even know it, you know.

1360
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 1: I hate to take like a single thing, like like

1361
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 1: we got the drug dear right, Like the single thing.

1362
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:07,919
Speaker 1: I don't even know the full story behind it. It's sickening.

1363
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 1: It's just this like probably a very isolated occurrence. I

1364
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:14,280
Speaker 1: don't want to put too much way down it, but

1365
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:17,720
Speaker 1: let's just talk about the drug deeper guy. I don't

1366
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 1: know that that guy could be rehabilitated. It's so weird.

1367
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 1: It's justice. Yeah, it's just too weird to begin to

1368
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:35,040
Speaker 1: think about. But I think that if people if you

1369
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: have a person who looks at an animal and recognizes

1370
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 1: its symbolic value, I feel that that person could come

1371
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: around and through some thinking and reading and kind of

1372
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:56,960
Speaker 1: understanding our conservation history in this country and how we

1373
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 1: came to have the richest the richness of resources that

1374
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:03,640
Speaker 1: we enjoy. I don't know, I feel that they might

1375
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 1: come to it and be like, you know what, UM,

1376
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: I'm changing over time and my value system is changing.

1377
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:15,000
Speaker 1: And I think you're right on because there isn't any way.

1378
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 1: There's no tangible way. There isn't a boat that we

1379
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 1: can we're going to push people off of, and there

1380
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 1: isn't a set of rules beyond the game laws that

1381
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:30,240
Speaker 1: we have that are going to allow us to kick

1382
01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 1: anybody out of anything. As long as it's legal, it

1383
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 1: can be done. So I think, what the reason why

1384
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 1: we're talking on a podcast, and I'm sure the reason

1385
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 1: why you do what you do is to continue I

1386
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 1: think the way to to fight what we see as

1387
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:46,840
Speaker 1: a negative force in hunting is to continue to talk

1388
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:49,959
Speaker 1: about this kind of stuff, is to continue to examine

1389
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:54,599
Speaker 1: the important measures that we've taken, continue to examine important

1390
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:58,920
Speaker 1: ways to adjust our philosophies and ideologists for the future,

1391
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:02,760
Speaker 1: and that the discussion is really the only one of

1392
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:06,439
Speaker 1: the only ways that we can continue to change people's

1393
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 1: value systems. I'd tell you what I think that like

1394
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 1: in in some of them, I'm a professional, you know,

1395
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:19,679
Speaker 1: a professional talker in some ways. Um, it sounds horrible

1396
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:21,879
Speaker 1: when you say it, but just like kind of reality.

1397
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 1: So it makes sense that that would value intercourse like

1398
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:29,720
Speaker 1: I would value like people having interactions and discussing things

1399
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:32,960
Speaker 1: and time with things, because I know that there were

1400
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:39,320
Speaker 1: the thoughts and words of other people wind up having

1401
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 1: a tremendous impact on me. My my older brother, We've

1402
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 1: talked about quite a bit. I have two older bones.

1403
01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:48,920
Speaker 1: But when I've alluded to more than the other, I

1404
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:55,360
Speaker 1: remember he had a conservation epiphany when he read I

1405
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:59,560
Speaker 1: will leave Old Sand County eliminat Okay. Because here's a

1406
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 1: person and sort of framing the natural world and the

1407
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 1: things that he cared, elderly pods, a hundred fishermen, and

1408
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:11,200
Speaker 1: the conservations. And he explained, like in this book he

1409
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:14,719
Speaker 1: lays out in Ethos, and my brother must have saw

1410
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:18,040
Speaker 1: so much of himself in there, and it was such

1411
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 1: a challenging way to view it that it changed him.

1412
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:26,639
Speaker 1: I remember, and I remember an essay by Tom mcgwaen

1413
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 1: where he said a thing and I'm like, I had

1414
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: never thought about it that way, but that's exactly right.

1415
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 1: I do feel that way, and I'm so glad I

1416
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:41,200
Speaker 1: just heard it because it now makes it seem valid.

1417
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 1: And it's a quote that I've quart a thousand times

1418
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:48,839
Speaker 1: and now quarts of the day I died. Where mcguain,

1419
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 1: who's a novelist, you know, you know, his written screenplays

1420
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:54,360
Speaker 1: and may novels. But years ago, I feel like it

1421
01:25:54,439 --> 01:26:00,439
Speaker 1: was in Maybe or something, he wrote a um essay

1422
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:06,000
Speaker 1: about hunting, and in it, the he's sort of imagining

1423
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 1: this conversation between a hunter and a non hunter, and

1424
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:15,920
Speaker 1: the non hunter says that the hunter like, you know,

1425
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 1: why do you why do you kill a deer? What

1426
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: did you ever do to you? And the hunter says,

1427
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: I can't talk about it this way? And the nounhn

1428
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:25,640
Speaker 1: says no, like, why do deer have to die for you?

1429
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 1: Would you die for deer? And the hunter says, if

1430
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:30,560
Speaker 1: it came to that, And I think that, like, in

1431
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:34,040
Speaker 1: that perspective, there's such like I was like, it just

1432
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: hit me like and like they say in Apocalypse Now,

1433
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 1: it hit me like a diamond bully that thought, which

1434
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 1: is one of the most impossible things to explain to

1435
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 1: other people. But it has to do like like you

1436
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:53,160
Speaker 1: if you have If you take a lifelong hunter who

1437
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:59,880
Speaker 1: spends all of their free time out in the woods,

1438
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing and enjoying nature, I can tell you

1439
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,360
Speaker 1: one thing. They're not doing it because they hate it.

1440
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:15,080
Speaker 1: They are not if you spend your entire life in

1441
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 1: your house in front of your TV fretting about the

1442
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 1: well being of a mountain lion that you would never

1443
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:24,000
Speaker 1: be able to find if you needed to. I think

1444
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 1: that there might be something a little bit disingenuous there

1445
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 1: because you haven't done anything to demonstrate to meet your

1446
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:34,680
Speaker 1: actual love for the natural world, because you're ignoring it

1447
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:39,760
Speaker 1: and living in existence entirely outside of it. So if

1448
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 1: there's a love there, I feel like you might love

1449
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 1: it the same way that guys in high school who

1450
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 1: had pin ups a Pamela Anderson loved Pamela Anderson loved

1451
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 1: the idea of no idea by anything, but there's just

1452
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:57,320
Speaker 1: something about it you love. You like the look of

1453
01:27:57,400 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: it baseless because if you like the guys I know

1454
01:28:02,280 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 1: that live outdoors are living outdoors because they love the

1455
01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 1: stuff that's out there. That's true, And I think that's

1456
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:14,160
Speaker 1: the idea. I mean, this conversation and all the conversations

1457
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 1: and the words you've written, things you've done in your

1458
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:20,559
Speaker 1: life are are leading to those moments where someone else

1459
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:24,720
Speaker 1: has that epiphany, or someone else listens to this or

1460
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 1: listens to one of your media or podcasts or reason

1461
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 1: for one of your books and has relatively small or

1462
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:33,400
Speaker 1: large epiphany in and of itself, it doesn't really matter.

1463
01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:38,240
Speaker 1: I think that's that's when you think about hunting into

1464
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 1: totality and where it is today and the decrease in numbers,

1465
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 1: and I would imagine the decrease in public acceptance of

1466
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:49,720
Speaker 1: some parts of it. It could be pretty daunting. You

1467
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:51,519
Speaker 1: can look at that and think we're never gonna win,

1468
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 1: That this thing might go away on our watch. We

1469
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 1: may be my your kids generation, my kids generation maybe

1470
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:02,120
Speaker 1: looking at it an entirely different landscape when they are

1471
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:06,960
Speaker 1: are age. But I think the way we can push

1472
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 1: back against that is to have these conversations and talk

1473
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:12,600
Speaker 1: about the ways that we need to get better in

1474
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 1: the ways that that we can establish a system of

1475
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:18,479
Speaker 1: values that works into the future, because I don't know

1476
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:21,080
Speaker 1: that we've done that yet as a hunting community, uh,

1477
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 1: as a whole the There's an environmental historian that I'm

1478
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:33,640
Speaker 1: friends with name Randall Williams, and he was telling me

1479
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 1: about another writer who said that hunting is like the

1480
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:52,479
Speaker 1: constellations in the sky, where they're like constituent parts are

1481
01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 1: always fixed, they don't change. The Big Dipper doesn't change shape,

1482
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:03,439
Speaker 1: but it's position relative to the horizon is constantly shifting.

1483
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:08,759
Speaker 1: So every time you look at this thing, it hasn't changed,

1484
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:13,519
Speaker 1: but it appears different depending on where it is. And

1485
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:17,560
Speaker 1: I think that that's it's a very helpful way to

1486
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:22,080
Speaker 1: think about, Honey. We are a couple of guys sitting

1487
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:26,280
Speaker 1: up on a mountainside in a bed of rabbit ship

1488
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:32,520
Speaker 1: trying to find a deer. We're engaged in an activity

1489
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:35,799
Speaker 1: that has been going on, no matter how you define

1490
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 1: it has been going on for millions of years, and

1491
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 1: we're doing it and it at its core, like bare

1492
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:51,320
Speaker 1: bones parts. We're out on the landscape pursuing animals that

1493
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 1: we will eat. That's the constellation. But how what we're

1494
01:30:57,040 --> 01:31:01,559
Speaker 1: doing would look to someone else constantly. Yeah, that's one thing.

1495
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 1: Can I You can't really quote yourself on a thing,

1496
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:09,320
Speaker 1: can you okay say something like I always think? I

1497
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:13,120
Speaker 1: always say. Something I said one time is that the

1498
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:15,799
Speaker 1: landscape of hunting will all will change, but the pursuit

1499
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 1: and the pursuer will remain the same. Those two things

1500
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:23,800
Speaker 1: will always be constant. We will always as long as

1501
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: there is hunting, we will pursue animals, and they will

1502
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:29,720
Speaker 1: run the hell away from us when we scare them. Yeah,

1503
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:32,720
Speaker 1: And I think that's important to realize that you have

1504
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:42,000
Speaker 1: in this country. You have a small percentage of people

1505
01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:47,280
Speaker 1: who hunt. You have an even smaller percentage of people

1506
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:50,920
Speaker 1: who oppose hunting. And what you have in the middle

1507
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 1: is some seventy percent of Americans who are generally kind

1508
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:01,400
Speaker 1: of like ambivalent above the object, don't give it too

1509
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:04,600
Speaker 1: much thought. If you pull them and ask them do

1510
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:10,160
Speaker 1: you support regulated hunting, they buy a wide margin say yes.

1511
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:17,800
Speaker 1: When I talk about hunting and I represent hunting, I

1512
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:21,000
Speaker 1: am not talking about it and representing it in a

1513
01:32:21,160 --> 01:32:25,479
Speaker 1: way that is meant to antagonize or piss off that

1514
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:31,840
Speaker 1: very small percentage on the other extreme. I'm talking about

1515
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:34,599
Speaker 1: it and representing it in a way that I hope

1516
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:39,880
Speaker 1: will wind up making sense to that vast, vast middle

1517
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:43,920
Speaker 1: ground who doesn't think about it too much. But now

1518
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 1: and then is presented with a question at the ballot

1519
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 1: box that basically the question changes, but it basically is

1520
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:57,280
Speaker 1: asking is this activity constructive and positive or is a

1521
01:32:57,400 --> 01:33:02,519
Speaker 1: destructive and negative? And if you're living your hunting life

1522
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:08,800
Speaker 1: in a way that is constructive and positive, I think

1523
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:11,680
Speaker 1: that it will help guide those decisions down the road.

1524
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 1: And I do not have a fatalistic pastimistic view towards

1525
01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:20,840
Speaker 1: the future. Nor do I I don't. I don't have

1526
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:26,200
Speaker 1: that either realistic, I mean, pragmatic. But this is the

1527
01:33:26,240 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 1: last thing I'm gonna say, is you imagine the day going.

1528
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 1: You're like a dimmer switch kind of light where there's

1529
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:39,679
Speaker 1: no clicks, right, it's just a smooth turn. You imagine

1530
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:43,200
Speaker 1: like days would pass sort of as like a smooth turn.

1531
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:46,720
Speaker 1: But out here it's like a clickie it's click. It's

1532
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 1: like this like pre dumb dust. And also it's like

1533
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:52,479
Speaker 1: click and there's this kind of like long morning and

1534
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:55,720
Speaker 1: someone goes click and it's like very definitely all of

1535
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:59,560
Speaker 1: a sudden, like mid day dead. Then also click and

1536
01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:04,400
Speaker 1: it's evening. They're better ready clicking day evening the evening,

1537
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:06,920
Speaker 1: and it won't be grand, it'll just be almost something like,

1538
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 1: holy shit, it's time to look for deer. We've solved

1539
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:14,759
Speaker 1: a few problems. We'll get back to the reel problem,

1540
01:34:14,840 --> 01:34:17,120
Speaker 1: which is a buffe we gotta kill. We're headed back

1541
01:34:17,120 --> 01:34:24,840
Speaker 1: to America tomorrow and uh back to that big Thanks dude,

1542
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:30,240
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Well, Damn, that was a good conversation. I

1543
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:32,519
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. I hope you did too. Thanks for bearing

1544
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:36,800
Speaker 1: with me. I'm a rookie podcaster, so I may suck completely,

1545
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:39,479
Speaker 1: but hopefully we'll get better every week. And we're gonna

1546
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:41,640
Speaker 1: do this every Tuesday morning. We're gona launch a new

1547
01:34:41,680 --> 01:34:45,280
Speaker 1: podcast for the Uncollective with a new guest or a

1548
01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:47,720
Speaker 1: new group of guests, and we'll see how she goes,

1549
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 1: So stay tuned in the weeks to come. We're gonna

1550
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:55,200
Speaker 1: have folks like Adam Greentree, Remmy Warren, hopefully guys from Hushing.

1551
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:58,559
Speaker 1: We'll stop by enjoying us at some point. We're gonna

1552
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:00,759
Speaker 1: do our best to round up some of those interesting

1553
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 1: people in hunting and delve into some of the issues

1554
01:35:03,439 --> 01:35:05,800
Speaker 1: that you guys want to hear about, so make sure

1555
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:10,719
Speaker 1: you check us out The Hunting Collective, dot com, iTunes, Stitcher,

1556
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:14,560
Speaker 1: all that fun stuff. Appreciate you hanging out, See you

1557
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 1: next time.