1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: On this episode of news World. For seventeen years, Chris 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: Fenton served as President of DMG Entertainment Motion Picture Group 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: and General Manager of DMG North America internationally, orchestrating the 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: creative and business activities of DMG, a multi billion dollar 5 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: global media company headquartered in Beijing. He has produced her 6 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: supervised twenty one films grossing two billion dollars in worldwide 7 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: box office and packaged sixty three others. He sat on 8 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: the board of Valiant Comics, directing its eventual acquisition, and 9 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: he worked closely with both Marvel and Hasbro orchestrating various 10 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: projects to monetize their ip. As an author, Fenton chronicled 11 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: much of that work in his new book Feeding the Dragon, 12 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Inside the Trillion Dollar Dilemma Facing Hollywood, NBA an American business. 13 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: Chris also hosts US congressional member delegations on diplomatic missions 14 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: to China and Acon countries focused on trade, media, and investment. 15 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Chris Fenton. Let 16 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: me start with sort of the beginning. How did you 17 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: get into this business? Where'd you go to school? And 18 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: what led you to do what you now do. I'm 19 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: humbled and honored to be on your show. I'm a 20 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: big fan of it, and it's amazing to follow such 21 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: amazing guests that you had on recently, so thank you 22 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: for that. In regards to my backstory, it's one of 23 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: the things that I've tried to pull the reader into 24 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: the book with because it's not like it was some 25 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: sort of premeditated idea of getting involved in the commercial 26 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: and cultural exchange between the US and China. It just 27 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: sort of happened a lot like how life occurs. I 28 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: was born and raised in South Florida. My father was 29 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: an engineer with Pratt and Whitney Aircraft and got transferred 30 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: to Connecticut when I was just entering high school. So 31 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: I went to high school in Glastonbury, Connecticut, and then 32 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: I went to Cornell University in Ithaca, New York and 33 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: got a BS and engineering there. And when I graduated, 34 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: it was nineteen ninety three. The economy was not all 35 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: that good, and I read a couple of books that 36 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: inspired me to travel the back roads of the country 37 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: over the course of about nine months, and eventually stopped 38 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: through Los Angeles for a weekend to visit a friend 39 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: who was living out here. And never left. And that 40 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: started my journey into the entertainment business, and ultimately it 41 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: introduced me to a small Chinese company based in Beijing, 42 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: and that led to the crazy twenty years that I 43 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: had in the interaction between the two superpowers. So in 44 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: that twenty year pred how much of that was spent 45 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,839 Speaker 1: working in China. So I was the conduit to all 46 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: global business for the company, primarily the Hollywood business. So 47 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: I was based in Los Angeles that whole time, but 48 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: I made dozens of trips back and forth between the 49 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: two countries. Initially, our headquarters was in Shanghai. With the 50 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: lead up to the two thousand and eight Olympics, we 51 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: moved our headquarters to Beijing, and we ultimately had five 52 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: cities of operation in China. So I was there quite often, 53 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on planes. Oh bad, since 54 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: you've been in both New York and Los Angeles and 55 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: you've been in Shanghai and Beijing. One of the biggest 56 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: differences in the rhythm and culture of the Chinese media 57 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: business as opposed to the American media business. Well, one 58 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: of the interesting aspects of China was that every global 59 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: company wanted to get into that market. They knew how 60 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: big it was going to be, but no one actually 61 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: really wanted to live in China in the early days, 62 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: so they would try to run operations out of say Taiwan, 63 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: which was really difficult, or out of Japan, or possibly 64 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: out of Hong Kong, and then eventually they started to 65 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: move into Shanghai because Shanghai was a very cosmopolitan, very 66 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: international and field. It had British influence obviously, and it 67 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: was a pretty nice place to live because it had 68 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: freedoms that were relatively similar to one of a democracy. 69 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: Plus it was a city that had lots of Western 70 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: aspects mixed with Chinese. Ultimately, though, all the decisions are 71 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: made in Beijing, So if you look at Shanghai sort 72 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: of akin to say New York City, Beijing is obviously 73 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: their version of Washington, DC, and everything involves what happens 74 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: in Beijing. All the decisions are made. In fact, I 75 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: use a comparison of China is just as wide as 76 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: the United States of America, right, But in the United 77 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: States of America there's three time zones. In China, there's 78 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: only one, and the only time that matters in all 79 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: of China. No matter if you're in the east or 80 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: in the west is whatever time it is in Beijing, 81 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: that's the time that all Chinese citizens live by. That's interesting. 82 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: This continuous homogenization into a Beijing centric model is really remarkable. 83 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: I think one of the most remarkable things about the 84 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: modern Chinese scene. You were there, you were in the 85 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: business meetings, you saw the decision making, and as you know, 86 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: in the last couple of years, it's people become a 87 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: little more skeptical and in some cases even a little 88 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: more hostile. And I think it's partly been by watching 89 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: the way the Chinese dictatorship has dealt with the various 90 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: American companies, including one of my favorite stories, which is 91 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: the decision that in the new version of Top Gun. 92 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I don't quite know why 93 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: somebody would have put a Taiwan patch on a fighter 94 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: pilot jacket, but Beijing apparently intervened very aggressively and said, 95 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: if you want this shown in China, and that's got 96 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: to come off the jacket. Can you describe that decision process. 97 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: It's a fascinating one, and obviously Senator Ted Cruz brought 98 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: that to light. Roughly I think it was January twenty 99 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: twenty and it's obviously been one of the big sort 100 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: of examples of this encroachment of Chinese censorship on Hollywood. 101 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: It's a fascinating situation when you look at what the 102 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party's number one goal is, which is to 103 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: keep one point four billion people just happy enough that 104 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: they don't revolt. And the reason I say just happy 105 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: enough is because there's just simply not enough resources on 106 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: earth to make them all happy. So one of the 107 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: things they need to do is provide this idea that 108 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: their leadership is giving all of what they need and 109 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: some of what they want to their people, and then 110 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: on top of it, give them this aspirational idea that 111 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: they can get more if they work hard. When you 112 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: look at what Taiwan represents, that is something that they 113 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: have instilled inside their people as an area of the 114 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: world that they still control and own and rightfully have back. 115 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: So anytime any other messaging comes out that deflects from 116 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: that ideal and says, hey, Taiwan is its own separate country, 117 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: its own nation, that is a real problem for the 118 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party. And when they look at the way 119 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: they prioritize what they do on the messaging front. Number 120 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: one is they need to stay internal with their people 121 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: and spread the message that they are the best form 122 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: of government in the world. But number two is on 123 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: the world stage, they take a very serious directive in 124 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: making sure that they promote this great form of government 125 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: in their eyes around the world. And part of that 126 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: is done through the soft power of Hollywood. And that 127 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: is what we're seeing with this cross border censorship that 128 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: has been occurring since nineteen ninety seven, and we can 129 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: talk about some of those movies that really woke us 130 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: up to it, but has been slowly getting more more 131 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: aggressive over time, and it's something we need to push 132 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: back on now. Johnson is almost a throwback to the 133 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: Maoist years of public self apology. I was wrong, I 134 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: did everything wrong, you know, please forgive me. I think 135 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: it's impressive that he apologizes in Mandarin, which I assume 136 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: made the Chinese government very happy. I think partly they 137 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: want couch howing to reflect their self defined position. Yeah, well, 138 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: one hundred percent. I mean. Number one is I feel 139 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: for John Cena because actually behind me, I have a 140 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 1: poster called Blockers, which is a movie I produced with John. 141 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: He's a very talented individual. He's actually a huge supporter 142 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: of veterans in the United States of America. He actually 143 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: comes from the athletic background of world wrestling entertainment, so 144 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: he has fans all across the board, and he got 145 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: pulled into a real political hot button issue. And one 146 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: of the things that China does is eventually, through whatever 147 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: source of communications, will make it clear to the people 148 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: that are trying to monetize a product or service that 149 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: something needs to be rectified. That was seen as an 150 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: error in the eyes of the Chinese Communist Party, and 151 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: in this case, it was a movie called Fast and 152 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: Furious nine, the ninth installment of the Fast and Furious Movie, 153 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: where John was out promoting that film, and he obviously 154 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: referred to Taiwan as its own nation, in fact, its 155 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: own market where Fast and Furious was going to open 156 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: prior to China. The Chinese Communist Party caught win too 157 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: that they made sure Universal and the other filmmakers involved 158 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: with that movie were aware that they were upset at it. 159 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: And whoever it was, whether it was the studio, whether 160 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: it was John taking it on his own, somebody influenced 161 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: him to put this apology out. And what's interesting, as 162 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: he did it in Mandarin, which made it all the 163 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: harder to watch because it looked extre dreamly cow twing 164 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: and pandering to all his fans around the world, Whereas 165 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: John learned Mandarin, which is a very difficult language to 166 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: learn in order to get access for his brand, for 167 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: his identity, for his marketability in that market. But what 168 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: happened is that that made it look like he was 169 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: even more cow twing to the market around the world, 170 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: and then inside China, it actually didn't work because he 171 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: never actually asked for forgiveness for mentioning that Taiwan was 172 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: its own nation. He actually tried to do it in 173 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: a way that was very vanilla. So the net is 174 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: ins which is what they call the internet trolls over there, 175 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: got very upset that he never really addressed the issue. 176 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: And what happened as a result economically is a movie 177 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: that was supposed to make four hundred million dollars US 178 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: in that market is now only going to make roughly 179 00:10:54,400 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: two hundred million. So the Chinese use economic pressure reinforce 180 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: their political pressure one hundred percent. They know they have 181 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: massive leverage with the business lobby because of that. I'm 182 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: curious how much have the various hero movies that involve 183 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: non human central characters. How much has that penetrated China 184 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: And are those as popular in China as they are 185 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: around the world. Yes, Well, if you're referring to say, 186 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: the Marvel movies. For instance, iron Man three was a 187 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: movie I was directly involved with, and that was the 188 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: first movie that really broke the Marvel intellectual property into 189 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: the mainstream in China. That was a movie where the 190 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: last Marvel movie prior to that deal made roughly twenty 191 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: million in the market. Iron Man three made one hundred 192 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: and twenty five million in that market. And then the 193 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: last Avengers movie that opened in China pre COVID was 194 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: the final Avengers movie, and that movie made almost seven 195 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: hundred million US dollars just in China alone. And I 196 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: mean if those movies succeeded in part because they are 197 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: inherently not identified by nationality, I mean, these are larger 198 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: than life, unique characters, and it strikes me, having looked 199 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: at him a little bit, that they enable you to 200 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: appeal to people everywhere in the world without any kind 201 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,599 Speaker 1: of cultural concern. That's one hundred percent the case. And 202 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: one of the things that we did even pre movie 203 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: business with for instance, working with a company like Nike 204 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: in their marketing and advertising over there was to make 205 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: them a global company rather than an American company, because 206 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: one of the things we always sensed was there was 207 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: always going to be a battle between the US and 208 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: China because they were ultimately the only two superpowers, and 209 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: we didn't want brands caught up in that tension. We 210 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: did the same thing with Marvel, which was really trying 211 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: to put Marvel out on a global stage, make it 212 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: a global ip, and make it recognizable around the world 213 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: and something that isn't American. Now. One of the things 214 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: that was sort of difficult are movies like Captain America, 215 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: where those films obviously don't do quite as well in 216 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: the market because they are seen as truly American characters. Well, 217 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: I think if you have a film entitled Captain America, 218 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: there's a reason to believe it has kind of a 219 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: nationalist overlay. Along the parallel line was the whole blow 220 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: up about the NBA, and I think it's the Houston 221 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: general manager who tweeted something in favor of Hong Kong. 222 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: Within hours, the Beijing regime was on the move and 223 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: applying such enormous pressure to the NBA that they just crumbled. 224 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: It was almost embarrassing how rapidly they backpedaled and apologized. 225 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: Is that what we should expect more of in the future. Well, 226 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: I actually hope we don't, but I think we will. 227 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: And that was actually as crazy as it seems. That 228 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: was the moment that really awoken me to the fact that, Wow, 229 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: what was I doing in the last twenty years? Was 230 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: I engaged in the same kind of behavior and is 231 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: this something we need to change? In fact, at that moment, 232 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: I'd just gotten back from China, co hosting a trip 233 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: through the US Asia Institute for three House members. It 234 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: was an Kirkpatrick representative, An Kirkpatrick from Arizona, Dina Titus 235 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: from Nevada, and Alan Lowenthough from Long Beach. And we 236 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: had met with Carrie Lamb and we had met with 237 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: protesters in Hong Kong, and then we also were up 238 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: in Beijing and heard all the party lines about various 239 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: different policies and issues, and came back and I was 240 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: pitching publishers the idea of this book and lo and behold, 241 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: fight for Freedom, stand with Hong Kong. That tweet comes 242 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: out from a man I had never heard his name 243 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: of before, but he was the GM of the Houston Rockets. 244 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: In the second I saw that tweet, which was forwarded 245 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: to me by somebody, I said, oh, no, the NBA 246 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: is in a lot of trouble. And the guy who 247 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: sent it to me said, well why is that? And 248 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: I said, well, Houston Rockets are the biggest branded team 249 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: in China. Why is that? Because Yao Ming played for 250 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: them and he was their stellar player coming from the homeland. 251 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: What I didn't see and I predicted it right that 252 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: that was going to be a big issue for the 253 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: NBA in China. In fact, it still is an issue. 254 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: Philadelphia seventy six ers, which is where Darryl More now 255 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: is the president and GM is if they don't exist 256 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: in China, they are not aired, there's no merchandise on 257 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: store shelves over there. And that's all because of what 258 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: he tweeted out that day in October of twenty nineteen. 259 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: But what was interesting to me is that was easy 260 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: to predict all the repercussions for the NBA. What wasn't 261 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: easy to predict was the bumbling and fumbling that the 262 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: NBA had in regards to what their position was with 263 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: Daryl Morey's freedom of speech rights that he exercised outside 264 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: of China. Number one and number two was the reaction 265 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: of journalists, politicians, and American citizens over that bumbling and 266 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: fumbling was super loud and vocal. It was as if 267 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: everybody finally got awoken to the problem that we have 268 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: with the current engagement of US China relationship. And it 269 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: was something that I could feel a ground swell was saying, Hey, 270 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: it's time to change this. And that is the moment 271 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: where I said, oh my god, I want to bring 272 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: to life in a book how we got here and 273 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: engaging in an entertaining way and also lead forward some 274 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: ideas of how we can change this moving forward. Wasn't 275 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: some of it a little bit inevitable just because of 276 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: this your scale of their market, Well, it was all 277 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: about the sheer scale of the market. I mean, if 278 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: you go back to the well, even the Kissinger Nixon days, 279 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: just opening up dialogue with that country. Then in seventy 280 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: nine sort of really starting to engage in trade, and 281 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: then the moment that Tianna Men Square occurred, which, by 282 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: the way, you're not even allowed to talk about in 283 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: any form of content. When it comes to China, and 284 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: they don't want that in any form of content, even 285 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: if it's not even playing in China. But the Tianna 286 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: Men Square June four, nineteen eighty nine moment and the 287 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: reaction of the business lobby shortly thereafter of hey, you 288 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: know what, that's behind us, now let's continue the engagement 289 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: of China was the perfect example of everybody in the 290 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: business side, the capitalistic side of the equation going, you 291 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: know what, we can look past what's happening in China 292 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: because that market is just simply going to be too 293 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: big to pass up. The thing that I think makes 294 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: it different is this isn't a tolitary and dictatorship. It 295 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: seems to me, at least as an outsider, that you 296 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: can't have a purely business relationship because inevitably, in their 297 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: model politics, it dominates business as a measure of achievement. 298 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: That's one hundred percent correct, and what I try to 299 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: position myself as as a nonpartisan patriot. For me, it's 300 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: about the foundation of what makes capitalism possible and what 301 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: makes our nation possible to be a leader around the world, 302 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 1: and that is having and instilling this value of patriotism. 303 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: For the country first and then moving into free market 304 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,959 Speaker 1: capitalistic instincts in order to create business around the world. 305 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: So I think we have lost our way as a 306 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: country and we put capitalism ahead of patriotism, and that's 307 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: where the problem lies. Patriotism should come before capitalism because 308 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: quite frankly, if we ruin what this nation is as 309 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: a foundation to provide that capitalistic ability, we won't have capitalism. 310 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: So we need to think about national security issues, human 311 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: rights issues, freedom of speech issues, things that are values 312 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: and principles we hold dearly as Americans first, and when 313 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 1: we protect those, then it's time to open up that 314 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: market in the smartest way possible. But the reckless form 315 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: of capitalism we've had under this globalist ideal recently is 316 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: something we cannot continue. So from your perspective, do you 317 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: know of any other country that is as rigid in 318 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: imposing its political values on its economic negotiations. Well, the 319 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: problem is for most nations is they don't have the 320 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,959 Speaker 1: leverage to do that. I mean, if Prutent wanted to 321 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: do that, or if MBS and Saudi Arabia wanted to 322 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: do that, there's a certain amount of you know, no, 323 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: we're not going to do it mainly because your market's 324 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: not big enough to be able to justify doing whatever 325 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: you're asking us to do. That's un American. So China 326 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: is one of the real exceptions to the rule where 327 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: the economic upside of whatever that product and service is 328 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: that whatever that industry or particular business is, or even 329 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: a celebrity or an NBA player sees as their potential 330 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: market that outweighs some of the stuff that really they 331 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: hold near and dear as a person that they consider 332 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: their values, their principles, their ethics. It's just that big 333 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: a market and only China can do that to us. 334 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: Are you surprised that the changes in your own view 335 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: of China over the last twenty years. I'm completely shocked. Actually, 336 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: the La Times actually called me Benedict Darnold of our time. 337 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: I was called at Shill for China after panel discussions 338 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: at times where I didn't really pick up what I 339 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: was doing in terms of being an American and how 340 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: it was to the detriment of the health of our nation, 341 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: at least in the long term. I always looked at 342 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: it in the short term globalistic aspect, which was no 343 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: matter what we could do to get our products and 344 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: services into that country in a bigger and better way 345 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: was good for America. It would grow GDP, it would 346 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: create jobs, it would actually spread the soft power influence 347 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: of the products and services coming from the West. Those 348 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: were all the mission statements that I lived by for 349 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 1: almost twenty years. It wasn't until that Daryl Morey tweet 350 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: where I really woke up to the fact that, wow, 351 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: all of that was not good for us in the 352 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: long term. And what's great about it is there are 353 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: lots of others in the exchange of US China relationship 354 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: that have now woken up to that. Two. We just 355 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: need more to build this ground swell of changing and 356 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: on the business lobby side, because we obviously have the 357 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: national security side of the equation now on the opposite 358 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: where we realize, hey, China is a threat. And by 359 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: the way, Donald Trump, kudos to him for bringing up 360 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: and sounding that fire alarm, right, but now we need 361 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: to get the business lobby on the same side as 362 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: the national security interests of this country. And that is 363 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: the battle royale that's happening inside Washington, DC today. Yeah, 364 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: I mean, partly because there's an immense amount of money involved. 365 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: The politicians gonna say things. But if you're Apple, or 366 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: you're Nike or your Coca Cola, the potential of the 367 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: People's Republic to punish you it is really extraordinary. Well, 368 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 1: that's a fantastic point, and it's great to hear it 369 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: from somebody in Washington, DC, because I have taken the 370 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: side of Lebron James and NBA and Nike and John 371 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: Cena in various ways, just simply because it's easy if 372 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: you're Senator Marco Rubio or Senator Josh Holly or various 373 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: other politicians to say, hey, you need to do what's 374 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: right and say what we all want you to say. 375 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: You need to stand up to China. But those politicians, 376 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: as much as I respect them, they don't have as 377 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: much to lose in that market. If you're Lebron James, 378 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: you have fifty million a year coming out of that 379 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: market to you. Now, obviously you could argue does he 380 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: need any more money? But I would say he has 381 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: real skin in the game, so he needs to think 382 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: about how he's going to play that and react, and 383 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: he has to figure out is the sacrifice worth it? 384 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: And I would say if it's just Lebron James standing 385 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: up or it's just John Cena standing up, or it's 386 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: just Nike standing up. They will just be a lone 387 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: wolf that will become a slaughtered lamb and replaced by 388 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: another entity or another celebrity or another athlete. The only 389 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: way to address this has to be through leadership, whether 390 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: it's on the business side of the equation or whether 391 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: it's in the political side of the equation, to say, 392 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: we need to unite, we need to create solidarity between 393 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: different companies in same industries, other industries, and we need 394 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: to say to the Chinese Comtist Party, if you retaliate 395 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: against one of us, you're retaliating against all of us. 396 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: That is the only way we're going to get them 397 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: to retreat. The same to me, you cannot ask a 398 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: company to take on a superpower. The United States is 399 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 1: big enough to take on China, but even our biggest 400 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: corporations are tiny compared to the scale of the Chinese economy, 401 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: and so then the long run, it's just suicidal for 402 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: them to decide to be there on their own. Asking 403 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: for a second, where do you come down on the 404 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: whole question of the Beijing Olympics. In twenty twenty two, 405 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: well I listened to your interview with Congressman Michael Waltz recently, 406 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: and actually I worked with him and a couple other 407 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: House members on that China Task Force bill last summer, 408 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,959 Speaker 1: and what was interesting is that he was addressing the 409 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: idea of boycotting the Olympics because of various reasons, and 410 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: they obviously are very valid reasons. I actually am taking 411 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: the side of let's decide what we want from China 412 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: in order to show up. I mean, that is a 413 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: very fancy dinner party that they're trying to pull off 414 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: now that because think about two thousand and eight Summer Olympics, 415 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: was there coming of age party, right? They were adolescents 416 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: coming onto the adult world of economic strength and ability 417 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: and showcasing what their country was becoming. Now they full adult, which, 418 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: by the way, the WTO needs designate them as a 419 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: developed nation, not a developing nation, and we can get 420 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: into all kinds of other issues that we need to 421 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: change there. But this is a fancy dinner party that 422 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: they are throwing in twenty twenty two, and they want 423 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: full attendance. There's a lot of face on the line, 424 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: a lot of respect, a lot of insecurity on the 425 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: Chinese Communist party side, and I would argue, and now 426 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: we're less than three hundred days away. This is one 427 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: of the greatest amounts of soft power leverage the United 428 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: States will ever have, and we need to take advantage 429 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: of it. And we need to say to the Chinese, 430 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: here are the things we are demanding in order for 431 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: us and our allies to show up at this fancy 432 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: dinner party. And they can range from everything of the 433 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: provocation of the PLA flying into Taiwan's airspace has to 434 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: end tomorrow, to what they're doing down in the South 435 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: China Sea and fishing in Philippines fishing grounds, to designating 436 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: themselves as a developed nation rather than developing, to sec 437 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: accounting standards, to full access to Shinjiang Province, to be 438 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: able to see for ourselves what's happening there so that 439 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: either they can make their argument valid that they're reforming 440 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: these people, or actually make our argument valued that there 441 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: truly is genocide there. But we have great leverage, So 442 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: the questions shouldn't be should we boycott or not? It 443 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: should be if we're going to show up, what do 444 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: we want. I'm not quite sure the administration is ready 445 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: to go that far, because it's an interesting dance. I 446 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: remember Carter in nineteen eighty because the Russian invasion of 447 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: Afghanistan did in fact block all the Americans from going 448 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: and certainly embarrassed Moscow and cause them problems in a 449 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: way that was very very real. One other thing about 450 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: this whole relationship, to what extent do you think the 451 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: degree to which this is a sort of Leninist Stellinist 452 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: party that's totalitarian and that has power from the top down. 453 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: And you read the statements of Jijianping, which are really 454 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: pretty clearly aimed at replacing us, to what a stent? 455 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: Would you just say that that's just bluff? And to 456 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: what a stint should we be taking very very seriously 457 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: that they have a focus drive to economically, educationally, militarily, 458 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: in space and elsewhere replace us as the leading power 459 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: in the world. Well, obviously there's tremendous experts in this space. 460 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: So I'll stay in my lane the best I can 461 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: here while also answering that question, I look at it 462 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: in the most simple form, because it's very hard to 463 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: know exactly what the Chinese communist parties full strategy. Is. 464 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: One thing that they do do is they play on 465 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: a very long term horizon. They play, quite frankly, a 466 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: game of chess, while many other nations play a game 467 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: of checkers, and they're in it for the long run. 468 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: They're not on two to four year election cycles. They're 469 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: not on quarterly results of companies. They're definitely not on 470 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: stock fluctuations on a daily basis. They plan on seventy 471 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: five hundred year horizons, so that's a big, big help 472 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: for them in regards to carrying out strategy. I would 473 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: go back to the one principle that I always think 474 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: about when I'm trying to understand what's in their mind, 475 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: which is they want to keep one point four billion 476 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: people just happy enough that they don't revolt, and that 477 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,479 Speaker 1: requires a lot of resources. So if you look at 478 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: the Belt and Road initiative, for instance, I would argue 479 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: that that isn't necessarily their aim to take over the 480 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: world or put everybody in debt and get assets around 481 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: the world so they can slowly put military bases in 482 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: very strategic spots. I think there might be that effect 483 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: that happens anyway, because they are overriding these nations with 484 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: massive debt in order to build this infrastructure. But in 485 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: the most simplistic human form. That is an initiative where 486 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: they are trying to get the valuable re sources they 487 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: need both to power their economy but also provide people 488 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: what they need to survive and feel good about their government. 489 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: They have food scarcity in that country. They cannot provide 490 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: all the food that they need for one point four 491 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: billion people, so they need to find that elsewhere outside 492 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: of the world. And number two is they don't have 493 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: energy independence, and in order to power this economy that 494 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: gives all those aspirational values and ideas to the people 495 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: that are counting on their government to come through for them, 496 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: they need to find that energy source from elsewhere. So 497 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: long as they are taking care of their one point 498 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: four billion people and they don't have a Tienamen square 499 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: incident occur that threatens their power as leadership, that is 500 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: their number one goal. So all this other stuff might 501 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: just be ways to feed that insecurity and feed that 502 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: one strategy and whatever the resulting things that spread out 503 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: from that or the way it looks might look like 504 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: they're trying to replace as a world power, But I 505 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: would argue that just might be a side effect of 506 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: all of this. Do you think the future of movies 507 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: is going to be more and more designing them back 508 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: from a global market. Well, I'm pushing hard that the principle, 509 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,479 Speaker 1: if you build it, they will come, which is the idea. 510 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: I mean, my community is still the Hollywood community, and 511 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: I think this cow telling, this premeditated censorship, this post 512 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: production censorship, this try to do everything possible to please 513 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party because their market is the biggest 514 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: in the world, is ridiculous. Not only is it not 515 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: working anymore, but it also makes us look terrible as 516 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: this pillar of freedom of speech, freedom of creativity, freedom 517 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: of individual expression. That's what Hollywood supposed to be and 518 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: we are the opposite of that. So I would like 519 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: us to have the ability as an industry to unify 520 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: against this encroachment of the Chinese Counties Party and just 521 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: go back to making great movies. Now, obviously we make 522 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: a lot of bad movies too, but I'd like those 523 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: bad movies just to be simply bad because they were 524 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,239 Speaker 1: bad movies, rather than China made them bad movies. But 525 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: if we do that and we make great films that 526 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: resonate around the world, they will make money outside of 527 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: China and be able to overcome whatever market we're losing 528 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: inside China, and if we make them really good, they'll 529 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: also work in China too, And that is what we 530 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: need to go back to. We need to stop thinking 531 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: about Oh, the first number one rule of making this film, 532 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: of creating this screenplay, of working with actors is what 533 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: do we do for the China market Because that's the 534 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: biggest in the world that is eventually going to turn 535 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: off the rest of the world to our content, and 536 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: the loss of the rest of the world's market compared 537 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: to China will be the big tipping point that creates 538 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: the I guess the money side of this to flip 539 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: the equation. Listen, I want to thank you. This has 540 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: been a tour divorce. You've done a lot of things 541 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: very few people have done, and you've been a lot 542 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: of places very few people have gotten to. And I 543 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: really appreciate the way you're trying to balance rationally the 544 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: legitimate economic interests and the legitimate political interests, because it's 545 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: easy to grab one or the other, but that has 546 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: enormous negative consequences, and I commend you for the way 547 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,959 Speaker 1: you've tried to methodically weave the two of them together 548 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: and find a strategy that allows us to both have 549 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: a relationship with China and have a stable commitment to 550 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: our own core values. And I hope you'll keep up 551 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: the work, and I hope that you'll come back and 552 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: join us in the future and give us a progress report. Well, 553 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: I'm both honored and humbled to be on the show. 554 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: Thank you again, Nude. I really appreciate being on the show, 555 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: and I'm happy to come back anytime. Thank you to 556 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: my guest Chris Fenton. You can get a to order 557 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: his book Feeding the Dragon Inside the Trillion Dollar Dilemma 558 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: facing Hollywood, the NBA, and American Business on our show 559 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingwich 560 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Debbie Myers, 561 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: our producer is Garnsey Sloan, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 562 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show who's created by Steve Penley. 563 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Gingwich three sixty. If 564 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 565 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give 566 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 567 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my 568 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: three free weekly columns at Gingwich three sixty dot com 569 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.