WEBVTT - JPMorgan Chase Chairman & CEO Jamie Dimon Talks Banking

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<v Speaker 1>On the economy, on markets, on the states of banking.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm pleased to say that Blomberg's Francine Laqua so the

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<v Speaker 1>JP Morgan Club Markets conference in Paris with a special guest.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, friend, Yeah, a special guest John. He's called Jamie Diamond.

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<v Speaker 2>He runs JP Morgan and I'm delighted to speak to him.

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<v Speaker 2>Jamie Diamond, thank you for joining us.

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<v Speaker 3>It's happy to be here. Hey.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot going on. It's trade wars, markets up

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<v Speaker 2>and down. What did you learn in the last month?

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<v Speaker 3>Not much other than we have all this uncertainty. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>some preceded the new administration, like we had large deficits,

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<v Speaker 3>intr rates going up, inflation going up, and some are

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<v Speaker 3>you know, tariffs and things. And of course the geopolitical

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<v Speaker 3>situation is very tense, very difficult and hard to resolve.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So if you forget projections numbers, what's your hunch

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<v Speaker 2>is the UYS going to go into a recession or not?

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<v Speaker 3>Look, I'm going to defer to economists who give it

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<v Speaker 3>about a fifty percent chance. I think all these things

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<v Speaker 3>are probably inflationary a little bit more and slowing down

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<v Speaker 3>the economy. If there's a recession. I don't know how

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<v Speaker 3>big it'll be or how long it'll last. Hopefully we'll

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<v Speaker 3>avoid it, but I wouldn't take it off to the

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<v Speaker 3>table at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>If you look at you know, the trade war and

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<v Speaker 2>then the somewhat reconciliation between the US and China, does

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<v Speaker 2>it hold.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's the right thing to do is to

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<v Speaker 3>back off of some of that stuff, you know, to

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<v Speaker 3>have an engage in conversation. I'm grateful they did the

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<v Speaker 3>US UK deal. You know, it's an agreement in principle.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, there's a lot of one sertaty still

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<v Speaker 3>and there's all of one certay still in the China thing.

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<v Speaker 3>But at least we started and obviously calms down the markets.

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<v Speaker 3>That's not the reason to do it, but the markets,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, do voters something like that, and so you'll

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<v Speaker 3>still have uncertainty to resolve the ninety day triggers a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of these things, and hopefully they will be resolved.

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<v Speaker 3>What are you with your complex? I don't expect immediate resolution,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's the satisfactory of everybody in ninety days.

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<v Speaker 2>But do you expect markets to settle from here? Because

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<v Speaker 2>we have a little bit more of a blueprint, or

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<v Speaker 2>it could volatility pick back up at any second.

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<v Speaker 3>No, markets are quite unpredict well, I think there's a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of uncertainty out there that you can't discount, you

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<v Speaker 3>know when I you know, war in Ukraine, territory in

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<v Speaker 3>the Middle East, you know, I ran. You know, huge

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<v Speaker 3>deficits are tax bill, which I would like to see

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<v Speaker 3>a good tax bill at pass. You know, the terrorists,

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<v Speaker 3>the reaction of country to tariffs. The EU and the

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<v Speaker 3>UK are about to negotiate. I think they have a chance

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<v Speaker 3>to actually develop a great relationship, you know, partially making

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<v Speaker 3>up for you know, the disaster the Brexit became. And

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<v Speaker 3>uh so, yeah, those those are unsurgerties. You can't eliminate

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<v Speaker 3>them because you want to.

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<v Speaker 2>But what are your biggest clients saying about this market volatility?

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<v Speaker 2>Have they made money on the back of it?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Some, you know, some doing some don't. And you know,

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<v Speaker 3>volatility volatier would be good or bad depending on you know,

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<v Speaker 3>who's who's facing it. So but I but I would

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<v Speaker 3>expect continued volatility. I think it's a mistake to think

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<v Speaker 3>we can go through all the things we're going through,

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<v Speaker 3>and the volatility itself will come down.

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<v Speaker 2>Has it been good for JP margin, you know, trading.

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<v Speaker 3>Volic Yes, because when this volatility is a very simplistic

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<v Speaker 3>way to look at, bread's gap out and traders make

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<v Speaker 3>more money if there's more volume. So we had both

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<v Speaker 3>this time, more volatility, more volume. But it's very often

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<v Speaker 3>you have a lot of volatility and spreads gap out

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<v Speaker 3>there's much less volume. So you've seen examples where there's

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<v Speaker 3>good volatility and there's bad volatile. This one happened to

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<v Speaker 3>be good, the next go around may not be so good, Jamie.

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<v Speaker 2>When it comes to financials, I mean, you know a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of I guess non bank entrants are making quite

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of way Citadel Jane Street, is that a

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a concern for the banks. Shouldn't be a

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<v Speaker 2>problem for the banks.

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<v Speaker 3>I would call it a problem. You know, they're both clients.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm very capable, you know, but I've always had the

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<v Speaker 3>view there are a lot of competitors out there, and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, all the major banks are back. I think

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<v Speaker 3>that's a good thing for the world, you know, maybe

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<v Speaker 3>not so much for Jamie Morgan. There's you mentioned those two,

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<v Speaker 3>there's Apollo. There's a lot of FinTechs, some very good ones.

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<v Speaker 3>There's Stripe, there's PayPal. Yeah, my view has always been

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<v Speaker 3>the same. I tell the magic Assume competition. Assume they're

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<v Speaker 3>coming at you in every angle. Assume they often have

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<v Speaker 3>their own strengths. Sometimes their own weness is they won't

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<v Speaker 3>all do great, But yeah, I think they're you know,

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<v Speaker 3>some of these people gaining quite a bit of shared

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<v Speaker 3>in parts of the business. We still are too, by

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<v Speaker 3>the way, so you know we're in the fight. We're

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<v Speaker 3>not losing out very much. But that doesn't mean you

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<v Speaker 3>won't lose out tomorrow because you're winning today.

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<v Speaker 2>So what do you have to do today? How do

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<v Speaker 2>you see the people that are doing you know well

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<v Speaker 2>today doing even better tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 3>It's about us are other people both? It's quality to

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<v Speaker 3>people you interviewed Prinav, I mean we have exceptional people

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<v Speaker 3>and investment, banking and sales and training, and say I

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<v Speaker 3>put right next to that technology. But it's related because

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<v Speaker 3>those people deploying technology. So there are thousands of technology

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<v Speaker 3>projects and then there are hundreds of AI projects, all

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<v Speaker 3>of which are meant to do a better job for customers,

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<v Speaker 3>consumer research, how we deliver things to people, and if

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<v Speaker 3>you don't move. You know you're going to be left behind.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I remind you could be a country or

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<v Speaker 3>a company. You do not have a divine right to success.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we mentioned as management learnings as I did.

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<v Speaker 3>You can see it on YouTube and all that. But

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<v Speaker 3>I put out to people, look at the bank, look

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<v Speaker 3>at no Key, BlackBerry, Sears, Kmart Bearster Lehman, I can

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<v Speaker 3>chapter of diverse a failed companies usually because they're complacent, arrogant.

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<v Speaker 3>They think they're on the top of the top of

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<v Speaker 3>the world and they're not. They're competitors coming everywhere, and

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<v Speaker 3>you should assume that's gonna be true.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you see competitors coming for the US?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Where are Europe?

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<v Speaker 3>Are about the countries?

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<v Speaker 2>The countries?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I think Europe. Let me just ask. I

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<v Speaker 3>think Kere Starmer, Mers and Macrone. I think Macrone is

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<v Speaker 3>one of the best political leaders in the planet today. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>I think Kre Starmer is smart, devoted. They're saying the

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<v Speaker 3>right things public and privately, all of them talking about

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<v Speaker 3>growing the economies, thank god, pro business, pro capital, and

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<v Speaker 3>they're doing all of that to improve the lot of

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<v Speaker 3>their citizens. It's not about what they're doing for JP Morgan,

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<v Speaker 3>And if I was europe absolutely I'd want to great

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<v Speaker 3>live in the UK military econom and I would reform

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<v Speaker 3>as best I can in all of European things. What

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<v Speaker 3>they're all talking about now, deregulation, simplification, and yeah, they

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<v Speaker 3>try to compu to America, and that would be good

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<v Speaker 3>for America. That doesn't make me sad. It makes me

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<v Speaker 3>happy that they're strong. And then you know their allies.

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<v Speaker 3>I want our allies to be strong and powerful militarily

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<v Speaker 3>and economically.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you worry about US supremacy actually exceptionalism, Yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Look, I never believe her quite that exception. I mean, remember,

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<v Speaker 3>America is an unbelievable country with freedoms and the gifts

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<v Speaker 3>of God and you know, water, food, energy, and then

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<v Speaker 3>the gifts of founding falls called freedom of religion, freedom

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<v Speaker 3>of speech, from enterprise. That was dwarf everything. And so

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<v Speaker 3>we still have the most prosperous economy the world's ever seen.

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<v Speaker 3>But the Americans shouldn't take it as a divine rights

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<v Speaker 3>sace either. We slowed ourselves down with regulation, stupid bureaucracy.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we don't we're not getting we haven't done

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<v Speaker 3>budgets in years. You know. So now we shouldn't assume

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<v Speaker 3>it's forever. I don't think are will still be pre eminent,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, militarily and economically for a long time, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>But if we don't do everything right, we can lose

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<v Speaker 3>that too. You have twenty thirty forty years from now,

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<v Speaker 3>and I think very important that is America. The goal

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<v Speaker 3>of America should be to help the military alliances of

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<v Speaker 3>the Western world and to help the economic alliance of

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<v Speaker 3>the Western world to walk side by side like you

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<v Speaker 3>did in victory in Europe day the other day here

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<v Speaker 3>to strengthen the Western world and hold it together, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>not the cause of the fragments, and so I think

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<v Speaker 3>we have to work hard to make sure that's the case.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you worry about the deficits and do you worry

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<v Speaker 2>actually in the US And do you worry USO about

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<v Speaker 2>the US dollar remaining as a reserve currency. Do you

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<v Speaker 2>think Europe has what it takes to try and put

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<v Speaker 2>the euro in there?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So I think I should have mentioned deficits up

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<v Speaker 3>front as being one of the issues you have to

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<v Speaker 3>deal And I think acid prices quite high too, and

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<v Speaker 3>those create various risks for America. Our deficit is almost

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<v Speaker 3>two trillion dollars six or seven percent of GDP, the

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<v Speaker 3>largest peacetime deficit ever. And we have one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 3>debt to GDP. That one hundred percent debt to GDP

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<v Speaker 3>is kind of universal almost around Europe on average, but

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<v Speaker 3>your deficits is are much smaller. Does that create a risk? Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 3>it creates a risk of inflation. To me, it creates

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<v Speaker 3>a risk of higher long term rates. Well, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>but America will the dollar that week? I don't know that.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a slightly different. I think you could see rates

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<v Speaker 3>go up, the long bond rates go up, and you

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<v Speaker 3>know that might slow down to growth, and that's how

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<v Speaker 3>we you know, kind of a stagflation kind of scenario.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you, I mean you must see President Trump regularly.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you what do you tell? What would you tell?

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<v Speaker 3>I talked to all of us. I talked to all

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<v Speaker 3>of the folks there. I wrote about my Chairman's letter.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean we have first of all, America should worry

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<v Speaker 3>about things we can do better. You know, I call

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<v Speaker 3>it blue tape. I mean our regular we are out

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<v Speaker 3>of control. We're doing the same stuff that they did

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<v Speaker 3>here that you know virtually you know, the American publican

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<v Speaker 3>don't know. The GDP per person in Europe has gone

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<v Speaker 3>from something like ninety percent of Americas to sixty five percent.

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<v Speaker 3>And they did it to themselves. Rules, regulations, over complication.

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<v Speaker 3>They started the European Union, which I think is a

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<v Speaker 3>huge accomplishment of mankind. They got to finish it. And

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<v Speaker 3>here they they called the Capital Markets Union, the Banking Union.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, they have to create a big common market

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<v Speaker 3>of four and fifty million people. And so in America

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<v Speaker 3>it's the same thing. It's regulations, it's permitting. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>we've overdone. We've wasted a lot of money in the

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<v Speaker 3>green economy. It's getting jobs back, it's training in schools,

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<v Speaker 3>it's fixing immigration. So we've stopped at the border. But

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<v Speaker 3>now we have to have a more merit based immigration,

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<v Speaker 3>more seasonal immigration, you know, things that can help the

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<v Speaker 3>country grow. And then we have to work in our

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<v Speaker 3>military alliances and economic alliances. And that's for the sake

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<v Speaker 3>of the future free and democratic world.

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<v Speaker 2>So on the economic alliance, is there a concern that

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<v Speaker 2>actually certain countries in Europe or elsewhere will choose non

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<v Speaker 2>US bank from bondishferences, will choose non US asset managers

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<v Speaker 2>to manage their pensions.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there'll be a little of that, you know. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>we irritate a lot of people, so I rout into them.

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<v Speaker 3>They say, you know, like they're not buying our you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Kentucky bourbon or stuff like that. There'll be some of that,

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<v Speaker 3>And I think it's perfectly reasonable for you know, I

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<v Speaker 3>spoke a lot of investors here. They're thinking about the

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<v Speaker 3>ass allocation of the United States, Well, they diminished it.

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<v Speaker 3>Possibly is America a bad investment destination out If you

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<v Speaker 3>could take all of your money and put it in

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<v Speaker 3>one country, it would still be America. I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 3>still the most prosperous nation of the planet. It's got

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<v Speaker 3>the best military in the planet. It's got huge amounts

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<v Speaker 3>of immigrant innovation. People are catching up. That's a good thing.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, China's doing some very good innovation and medical

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<v Speaker 3>and AI, and we should assume they're continue to do that.

0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.679
<v Speaker 3>But America still got the best. Our GDP versus eighty

0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.880
<v Speaker 3>five thousand dollars, you know, China's fifteen thousand dollars. But

0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.600
<v Speaker 3>other than they're ashamed about we should fix our problems

0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.560
<v Speaker 3>because we could grow a lot faster, which help all

0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:41.319
<v Speaker 3>of our citizens.

0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.839
<v Speaker 2>But if you put to too many tariffs and actually

0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.840
<v Speaker 2>too much uncertainty, does that not squander actually a lot

0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:47.960
<v Speaker 2>of the assets that they used.

0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:50.000
<v Speaker 3>I think they're doing the right thing now, which is

0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.440
<v Speaker 3>the back off of it. Let you know, the Secretary

0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.400
<v Speaker 3>of Treasury do the hard work of figuring out what's

0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:57.880
<v Speaker 3>the right thing to do. If they're unfair trade things,

0:10:57.920 --> 0:10:59.959
<v Speaker 3>do something about it, you know. But they have bet

0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.000
<v Speaker 3>off of specific things and specific industries, and I think

0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:05.400
<v Speaker 3>that's the right thing to do. I think the first

0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.079
<v Speaker 3>thing is very large, that everything in everywhere all at once,

0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.960
<v Speaker 3>and now they're kind of backing to where I think

0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.720
<v Speaker 3>they should be in terms. But even at this level,

0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.959
<v Speaker 3>it caused that kind of uncertainty. Even this level, you

0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.760
<v Speaker 3>see people holding back on investment and thinking through what

0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.040
<v Speaker 3>they want to do, you know, thinking about, you know,

0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.000
<v Speaker 3>how much you're gonna put in the United States, and

0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we're gonna be okay. But it is causing

0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:26.960
<v Speaker 3>that uncertainty.

0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.439
<v Speaker 2>We're looking at the president of course, in the Middle East,

0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.200
<v Speaker 2>where there were seals that you know, deals that were

0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:33.840
<v Speaker 2>signed and a lot of wall streets. Some of your

0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.240
<v Speaker 2>competitors say what's your strategy for the Middle East? How

0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:37.200
<v Speaker 2>much do you want to grow there?

0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.240
<v Speaker 3>Well, we grow everywhere. I mean, you know, we go

0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.480
<v Speaker 3>country by country and we look at you know, we

0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.880
<v Speaker 3>bank country, cities, schools, states, hospitals, big companies everywhere. We

0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.719
<v Speaker 3>have a network effect. So when we bank Bloomberg, we're

0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.240
<v Speaker 3>banking the United States. We're banking you in London, in Paris,

0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:52.880
<v Speaker 3>we're banking you in Europe, We're banking you in the

0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.640
<v Speaker 3>Middle East. That's what we do. So almost every one

0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.080
<v Speaker 3>of those countries we're growing. As they grow, we grow,

0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:02.000
<v Speaker 3>we cover more of their institution overseas were institutional in

0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.080
<v Speaker 3>the United States. We also have a consumer and so

0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.280
<v Speaker 3>you know, as you know, we're testing the consumer and

0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:07.839
<v Speaker 3>chase UK to them.

0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you're growing actually that retail business a lot

0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:11.760
<v Speaker 2>in the UK. What's next for that?

0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:14.360
<v Speaker 3>I hope to We hope to grow more in the UK,

0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.280
<v Speaker 3>add some products and eventually we've already anounced we're going

0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:18.959
<v Speaker 3>to go to Germany. But I think we have a

0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.800
<v Speaker 3>chance to build a great digital bank, and we have

0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.680
<v Speaker 3>competitive advantages. We have a brand, we have research, we

0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.079
<v Speaker 3>have a balance sheet, we've got capabilities. We're going to

0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.120
<v Speaker 3>add you know, we're not gonna announce it today. We'd

0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.160
<v Speaker 3>add more capabilities over time, so that and then someone

0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:34.240
<v Speaker 3>like you, if you travel the United States and to

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.280
<v Speaker 3>the UK, you're gonna be able to move your money

0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.880
<v Speaker 3>between Chase US and Chase UK on your phone. So

0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.319
<v Speaker 3>we're add things that make your life better as a

0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.120
<v Speaker 3>consumer of our banking product.

0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.800
<v Speaker 2>You certainly caught some waves in uh, you know, talking

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:49.720
<v Speaker 2>about return to the office. I think there might have

0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.720
<v Speaker 2>been a little bit swearing at bit there or not.

0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.719
<v Speaker 2>People listened, Yeah.

0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.840
<v Speaker 3>Back full time listen. First of all, I tried, I

0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:00.920
<v Speaker 3>did a mote dare I you know, people know me

0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:02.920
<v Speaker 3>and I don't really care about that. I don't worry

0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.199
<v Speaker 3>about it, but I answered, I want to answer. The

0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.480
<v Speaker 3>guy asked a legitimate question and I gave it a

0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.320
<v Speaker 3>very detailed answer about why it doesn't work for young people,

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.240
<v Speaker 3>why it doesn't work for management, why it doesn't work

0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 3>for innovation. I completely applaud your right to not to

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.600
<v Speaker 3>want to go to the office every day, but you're

0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.480
<v Speaker 3>not going to tell JP Moore what to do. And

0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:22.679
<v Speaker 3>I think we already have ten percent of jobs at home.

0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm not against work from home. I'm against work from

0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.040
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't work. And then of course the press made

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.640
<v Speaker 3>a big deal about the petition and all that. It

0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.520
<v Speaker 3>was like not even Mosquito. Most people back some people.

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.360
<v Speaker 3>We've had no additional attrition, you know, we had to

0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.080
<v Speaker 3>make some modificate, you know, we didn't have enough seats

0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.959
<v Speaker 3>in certain areas. And it will be a better company

0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:42.840
<v Speaker 3>and I think our employees will be happier over time,

0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.280
<v Speaker 3>and the younger people learned the right way. You know,

0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.560
<v Speaker 3>it's an apprenticeship system and you can't learn working from

0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:49.160
<v Speaker 3>your basement.

0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.480
<v Speaker 2>Jamie Diamond, thank you so much for joining us today.

0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.920
<v Speaker 2>That was, of course, the chief executive officer of JP Morgan.

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:56.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to send it back to you in New York.

0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:01.160
<v Speaker 1>John front Sine, thank you appreciate the update over in Paris,

0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.920
<v Speaker 1>France with Jamie Dimon, the CEO and chair of JP

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Morgan