Speaker 1: Hey, Pitching Ninja. Rob Friedman back with us on FT
Speaker 1: and make sure you check out his book. We'll talk
Speaker 1: more about that coming up in a moment here too.
Speaker 2: Rob.
Speaker 1: It's great to have you back on the show, dude.
Speaker 2: Good to see you.
Speaker 1: Happy Friday. And also, I'm just gonna start with the
Speaker 1: headliner show. Hey, o Tani, do you think he has
Speaker 1: a chance to win the cy Young Award based on
Speaker 1: how many.
Speaker 3: Starts he's going to get?
Speaker 1: Because stuff lies. If he's looking like this, this is
Speaker 1: maybe the best I've ever seen him.
Speaker 2: Do you agree? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean you nailed it. I think it's gonna come
Speaker 3: down to number of starts.
Speaker 4: He gets because it's not only about being nasty, it's
Speaker 4: about how many times you're nasty and how much you've
Speaker 4: carried for your team. So I've you innings pitched is
Speaker 4: probably the gating thing for him. He's gonna need to
Speaker 4: make all his starts and hopefully go deep in them.
Speaker 4: But stuff wise, absolutely like it's best I've seen him.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this.
Speaker 5: I got Paul Skeins on the other line. He's curious
Speaker 5: about that comment. There, so battle between neck and neck man,
Speaker 5: what do you think the big you know, no Wheeler.
Speaker 5: I mean there's an opportunity there for both of them
Speaker 5: to battle down neck and neck. Do you think there's
Speaker 5: a big opportunity and it'd be great for baseball to
Speaker 5: see this happen.
Speaker 3: I think this is the year.
Speaker 4: You know, interesting, Paul Skeen's like looked up to show
Speaker 4: Hey when he was coming up too, So it makes
Speaker 4: it really cool. Yeah, Like Paul Skeen's is the best
Speaker 4: picture you know in the in the n L. Definitely
Speaker 4: command wise, innings wise, but stuff wise, Show Hayes up
Speaker 4: there with him, I mean, show hay throws harder and
Speaker 4: his stuff, you know, his stuff is filthy and they're
Speaker 4: both incredible competitors. So yeah, I mean this might be
Speaker 4: his year if he's going to attack it because it
Speaker 4: looks like a you know, two horse race. Yamamoto could
Speaker 4: get in there too, right, so we have a few
Speaker 4: but yeah, I would say, uh, show Hey's gonna gonna
Speaker 4: have to make some starts.
Speaker 6: Rob, good to see you man, How you doing I
Speaker 6: haven't heard Yeah doing good man doing good?
Speaker 1: Happy to be here.
Speaker 6: Well, I want to get into Mason Miller a little bit.
Speaker 6: I don't know if I'm jumping the gun but I
Speaker 6: just I consider him talk Mason Miller all day. I
Speaker 6: played with him in Oakland now Sacramento. A is obviously
Speaker 6: just a good kid all the way around and not
Speaker 6: such an awesome story. You know what you're talking about
Speaker 6: a two horse race between show Hay and uh and Skens.
Speaker 6: What does Mason got to do to get his his
Speaker 6: name in that loote as well?
Speaker 4: Dude, I love, like talk about the most dominant pitcher
Speaker 4: on earth. We're talking about the other other guys. It's
Speaker 4: nasty whatever nobody wants to hit against Mason Miller. I
Speaker 4: think he needs those two guys to falter. You need
Speaker 4: a non clear starting pitcher as a you know.
Speaker 3: No one, no one can dominate.
Speaker 4: And then he keeps doing around what he's doing, and
Speaker 4: then he can get his name in the conversation and
Speaker 4: again keep making those appearances.
Speaker 3: His stuff is so ridiculous.
Speaker 4: He like incredibly mature dude too, Like I'm you know,
Speaker 4: I met him when he was young, interviewed him when
Speaker 4: he was young, and he still was like really you know,
Speaker 4: had his stuff together. Love watching him ful and absolutely
Speaker 4: a beast.
Speaker 6: I love seeing the edge like you know, like you said,
Speaker 6: he's a good kid, and he speaks well like I
Speaker 6: think he's married to his high school sweetheart.
Speaker 1: Like he's just an all around good kid.
Speaker 6: I like this, like he's running out to like a
Speaker 6: corn song and he's like got some you know, like
Speaker 6: some kind of some f you to him a little
Speaker 6: bit on some of these saves that he's getting. I'm
Speaker 6: loving that. I think some of that's coming from I
Speaker 6: don't know if he was guaranteed the closer position, you know,
Speaker 6: I think they were going to kind of platoon it
Speaker 6: and he's just gone out and said, no, I'm the closer.
Speaker 6: But anyways, what I want to ask you about him
Speaker 6: is is if you go back in time in some
Speaker 6: of these generations and maybe in like the sixties, and
Speaker 6: someone watched Bob Gibson and you're just like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 6: like is this what baseball is going to become? And
Speaker 6: you fast forward to Nolan Ryan, like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 6: like is this eventually whatever picture's gonna look? Like I
Speaker 6: was gonna ask, is is Mason Miller what the future
Speaker 6: of every picture is? Or is he even like above
Speaker 6: a normal anomaly? Like he's just a unicorn of sorts.
Speaker 4: So the cool thing is when he made his debut,
Speaker 4: I literally said, I've seen the future and his name
Speaker 4: is Bason Miller because his stuff, even in his first outing,
Speaker 4: his first appearance was like mind blowing throwing one zero two,
Speaker 4: which is nasty, nasty stuff. I think it's a little
Speaker 4: bit of both. Like, obviously velo's important in the game.
Speaker 4: There wouldn't be guys standing behind the backstop with guns
Speaker 4: if it wasn't.
Speaker 3: It's not the be all and end all.
Speaker 4: Obviously, pitch abilities important, stuff's important, commands important, makeups important.
Speaker 3: He happens to.
Speaker 4: Have all of that, so he is what every pitcher,
Speaker 4: certainly every closer aspires to be.
Speaker 3: But I think you're also seeing guys go back to.
Speaker 4: What worked back in the day, where they're breaking out
Speaker 4: multiple pitches. And I talk about this this in my
Speaker 4: book Unhittable is like there's a drive for velocity, but
Speaker 4: you can only go so far because redlining bodies means
Speaker 4: that people break. And now we're looking at different ways
Speaker 4: to solve the same problem. VLO works because hitters have
Speaker 4: a short time to make a decision, and if you
Speaker 4: have enough pitches and you can tunnel them, hitters also
Speaker 4: have a short time making a decision. So either one
Speaker 4: works and maybe more pitches is healthier.
Speaker 5: I would agree totally with you there. I want to
Speaker 5: I want to listen. We could talk about Miller whole time,
Speaker 5: because he's absolutely nasty. I would love to see him
Speaker 5: start and throw that beast for nine innings.
Speaker 2: I think that'd be incredible.
Speaker 5: I know back in the day when I was in
Speaker 5: Triple A with the world as Chapman, we tried that
Speaker 5: with him. Took about three hours to get five innings,
Speaker 5: and we said, all right, we'll put him in the bullpen. Ultimately,
Speaker 5: that's part of the game. Jose Soriano absolute phenomenal pitcher.
Speaker 5: You know, a lot of people didn't see it coming.
Speaker 5: A lot of people did point to four e r
Speaker 5: right now through six starts, talk.
Speaker 2: About him in the way he throws.
Speaker 5: Could you see this guy eventually, you know, the Angels
Speaker 5: beering off and not doing well, not only being one
Speaker 5: of the best pitchers, maybe even close to a cy Young,
Speaker 5: but maybe trade bait two as well.
Speaker 4: Absolutely so, he reminds me he's a little bit of
Speaker 4: a horse. He loves pitching innings, he loves staying in games.
Speaker 4: He made a little adjustment where he stands on the rubber.
Speaker 4: That's the biggest thing I can see is like what
Speaker 4: he changed this year as well as where he's kind
Speaker 4: of locating his pitches. He's much better at locating his
Speaker 4: pitches this year and working in more for seamers, which
Speaker 4: makes his sinker more effective as well as all of
Speaker 4: his other pitches. Dude is fantastic to watch. I've been
Speaker 4: on him for the last couple of years and I've
Speaker 4: been like on my YouTube show constantly saying this guy
Speaker 4: is an ace, this guy is an ace, and now
Speaker 4: he's finally turned into it. I didn't expect a point
Speaker 4: twenty four eraas, but he's got all. He's the real deal.
Speaker 5: We love our Dogabella, who's really just account's cushion in
Speaker 5: our house, and.
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Speaker 6: Man, I want to get into some vlow talk about
Speaker 6: a stat that I saw that just means I don't
Speaker 6: belong in this game anymore. That average writy starter is
Speaker 6: throwing ninety five point four miles an hour to start
Speaker 6: the season this year. I don't even know if I
Speaker 6: have a question. I just wanted to put that out there,
Speaker 6: like where does it stop? Is that going to keep
Speaker 6: trickling up as it has over the last ten fifteen years,
Speaker 6: or you know, is there's just no more Joe blow writing.
Speaker 6: I mean, that's at ninety five point four average starting
Speaker 6: right handed pitcher velocity.
Speaker 4: It is absolutely amazing, And part of it comes from
Speaker 4: like back in the day, we used to say, oh,
Speaker 4: we can't take teach velo, so we're gonna have to
Speaker 4: draft guys and then other guys we're gonna have to
Speaker 4: teach the pitch. Then we learned through these facilities that
Speaker 4: came up. You know, you can teach filo and you
Speaker 4: can get some of these guys that had been throwing
Speaker 4: all that hard to throw hard. So you will see
Speaker 4: it continue to tick up. But there's got to be
Speaker 4: a natural breaking point. Again, like we put guns on people,
Speaker 4: they're going to try to compete for the highest number.
Speaker 4: It's just a competitive athlete type of thing. If we
Speaker 4: put numbers on spin rate, they're going to try to
Speaker 4: spin it the most. Everybody's gonna want to be Nolan McLain.
Speaker 4: We don't have numbers great numbers on command. If they
Speaker 4: had that, you might see that be valued more. Sometimes
Speaker 4: analytics is a self fulfilling prophecy where we value what
Speaker 4: we can measure, and if we can't measure it, we
Speaker 4: don't value it.
Speaker 3: Like mental game.
Speaker 4: Mental game is very important, but we don't value it
Speaker 4: because we can't measure it. So I think you're going
Speaker 4: to keep seeing the vila go up until the human
Speaker 4: body breaks. And that's just natural competitiveness. And I don't
Speaker 4: know is that good for the game or not.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be a hitter.
Speaker 5: That's why I'm not playing. No, but listen, the movements
Speaker 5: of the baseballs are incredible. And talk about movements a
Speaker 5: guy like Noel McClain, his sweeper frisbee thing, I don't
Speaker 5: even know what you call it.
Speaker 2: It's out of this world.
Speaker 5: I want to talk about his repertoire, his fastball, well,
Speaker 5: he faced Fyron Bucks in the other day. First about
Speaker 5: he threw five or six two seamers that ran up
Speaker 5: and in and he swung half swung at two of
Speaker 5: them to strike out. Talk about the movement on him
Speaker 5: and how hard he is to hit right now, it
Speaker 5: just seems like it's every which way in angle that
Speaker 5: you know, he talks to the baseball.
Speaker 2: I need up, down, inside out. How does he do it? So?
Speaker 4: I talk about a lot of players and a lot
Speaker 4: of pitchers that I like. He is my favorite pitcher
Speaker 4: to watch because when you watch him throw, you may
Speaker 4: never see any ball ever move like that. Again, both
Speaker 4: sides of the plate, he can go armside and glove
Speaker 4: side up and down. Smart pitcher competitive throws hard, but
Speaker 4: that's not really even as you know he throws he
Speaker 4: tops out like ninety nine, and everybody's like whatever.
Speaker 3: His stuff is eye popping.
Speaker 4: It's like they're his pitches are teleporting one way or another.
Speaker 4: And I talked to him about his grips are not
Speaker 4: necessarily unique. He grips the ball hard, just he's got it.
Speaker 4: Whatever it is, grip strength, the ability to spin a baseball.
Speaker 4: This dude was born with it. We you know, that's
Speaker 4: one of those things we can't teach all that much.
Speaker 4: We can teach a little bit. You want to get
Speaker 4: guys like Noelan McLain on your team, just so much
Speaker 4: fun to watch and so nasty.
Speaker 6: Rob how about you know they always kind of say
Speaker 6: hitting is is is catching up to pitching, you know
Speaker 6: as far as like the pitchers start throwing fastballs up,
Speaker 6: so the hitters all start to train to hit the
Speaker 6: fast balls up. And then the big twelve six curve
Speaker 6: ball is kind of out of the game and now
Speaker 6: the splitter's making this comeback. What are you seeing? You know,
Speaker 6: you got guys that you know, like like McLean that
Speaker 6: we're just talking about throwing like this unicorn stuff. I
Speaker 6: don't know if there is like one thing that a
Speaker 6: hitter can say, I gotta I gotta focus on the
Speaker 6: heater up or I got to start tracking this splitter
Speaker 6: or sinkers making a comeback. You know, it feels to
Speaker 6: me like pitching is quite a bit ahead of hitting
Speaker 6: at this point. How do you see that playing out
Speaker 6: of the next couple of years as hitters try to
Speaker 6: adjust to where pitching is.
Speaker 4: I think I think pitching will always lead the way
Speaker 4: because pitchers are basically gone offense. You have the baseball,
Speaker 4: you're a control of it, you can put it where
Speaker 4: you want to, and you know how to attack a hitter.
Speaker 4: You have his heat maps and everything, so you're always
Speaker 4: going to be able to be in control. The hitter's
Speaker 4: a counterpuncher. That being said, I think new trends now
Speaker 4: you're seeing multiple types of fastballs. Guys are like, you
Speaker 4: can't just have a good four seamer. You've got to
Speaker 4: be able to throw a two seamer so they can't
Speaker 4: sit on one or the other. And then maybe a
Speaker 4: cutter like Cam Schlitzer, where you have three different types
Speaker 4: of fastballs and just throw them down the middle. I
Speaker 4: hope they go where they want to go. You know,
Speaker 4: splitters are obviously huge. We have kick changes now that
Speaker 4: kind of act like splitters slash circle changes. We're able
Speaker 4: to design so many different pitches. And again, this is
Speaker 4: one thing I go over my book because I wanted
Speaker 4: to show everybody like where pitching was and where it
Speaker 4: is today, and how much harder it is for hitters today.
Speaker 3: It is absolutely absurd.
Speaker 4: We can design pitches just to defeat certain hitters, almost
Speaker 4: in a lab like pitchers are lab.
Speaker 3: Rats and we're just designing them to do what we want.
Speaker 2: Them to do. It's absolutely incredible.
Speaker 5: And I you know, the kids I teach today and
Speaker 5: I'm sitting there, I'm like, you, guys don't have the
Speaker 5: slightest clue you think these kids, you know, they're trying
Speaker 5: to throw curveballs circle change on my first off. Your
Speaker 5: hands aren't begg enough. Just throw fastball and die up
Speaker 5: and you'll be fine.
Speaker 2: I want to go to a new pitcher that just
Speaker 2: came in JR. Ritchie.
Speaker 5: Ultimately, you come up to the big leagues, you either
Speaker 5: get your first abat or your first pitch of the year,
Speaker 5: or ever first pitch home run and then boom, your
Speaker 5: life comes doing that. It seems like I said it before.
Speaker 5: He looks stocky, looked like he was under control. Talk
Speaker 5: a little bit about him and how you know his
Speaker 5: performance can help these Braves ultimately.
Speaker 2: Win the NL East. I mean, another good pitcher coming.
Speaker 4: In absolutely and dude as a hitter, that sound cool, right?
Speaker 4: You got to let him have the free before pitch parent.
Speaker 4: So mean, I thought that was awesome, and I thought
Speaker 4: what was even more awesome is how he reacted to that,
Speaker 4: because you up two solo shots.
Speaker 3: Pitch great.
Speaker 4: I thought his change up looked really good, his curveball
Speaker 4: looked great, and his poise look great. Like to be
Speaker 4: tested in that first outing, you're just shoved in there
Speaker 4: and you do that, like really impressive stuff by JR.
Speaker 3: Ritchie and yeah.
Speaker 4: Like so to me, looking at the Braves before the
Speaker 4: season started, I was like, if they can survive until
Speaker 4: they get Strider and Schwellenbach and you know Waldrop and
Speaker 4: you know the Smith Schauvre back, then they're gonna be
Speaker 4: tough to beat. They're not only so viving, they're thriving
Speaker 4: with these guys. So I mean, I'd worry if I
Speaker 4: were in the NL, e's compared, you know, compete against them.
Speaker 5: Let's let's go to the Al East with the with
Speaker 5: the Yankees. Here, they are playing excellent baseball. It seems
Speaker 5: like the Ebbs and Flows are really either really good
Speaker 5: or really bad. They're going on a nice streak here
Speaker 5: six games. They got two dogs that are waiting to
Speaker 5: come back pitching wise, Garrett Cole and oh my god,
Speaker 5: I'm drawing Carlos Rodan. Yea, what is what is gonna
Speaker 5: happen here? When you know, I think Carlos is gonna
Speaker 5: be first? Well, actually I don't know. We'll see how
Speaker 5: that hamstring is whoever it is, Who's who's the odd.
Speaker 2: Man out here? Or what's gonna happen odd men?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I have no idea. All I know is
Speaker 4: you're gonna want those guys in your rotation. Two old
Speaker 4: school dogs that you're gonna want out there, and that
Speaker 4: is absolutely an advantage for them. They also have like,
Speaker 4: you know, tons of arms that they haven't even scratched
Speaker 4: the surface of bringing up or contributing, so so yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean, they could be very dangerous. And the emergence
Speaker 4: of Schlittler I think makes this rotation so tough, like
Speaker 4: he also has just ice water in his veins. And
Speaker 4: you had him learning alongside again Cole and Rodan and
Speaker 4: watching the way they go about their business. It could
Speaker 4: only be good for all these guys.
Speaker 6: How about same division, Rob Garrett Crochet off to a
Speaker 6: little bit of a tough start by his standards. What
Speaker 6: do you seem from him?
Speaker 4: Yeah that you know, I heard you talking about Garrett
Speaker 4: Crochet and I've had the same problem. Like I thought
Speaker 4: he might be tipping pitches. I went and did overlays
Speaker 4: of his mechanics. I couldn't find anything about tipping pitches.
Speaker 4: It looked to me some of his locations were off
Speaker 4: and he was getting you know, slaughtered in those situations,
Speaker 4: and that some like he threw some good pitches that
Speaker 4: got hit and I don't know if that was luck.
Speaker 4: You know, That's what made me think he might be tipping,
Speaker 4: is there were good pitches that usually are getting outs
Speaker 4: that were getting.
Speaker 3: Hits or it's just luck.
Speaker 4: Like you get beat by luck sometimes and people put
Speaker 4: things together and all of a sudden you have a
Speaker 4: bad outing. I'd still wait and see his stuff looks good.
Speaker 4: I mean it was down a tick. Vlo wise but
Speaker 4: nothing like. It didn't make me think he was anything
Speaker 4: other than Garrett Crochet, and we all know what he
Speaker 4: can do when he's on. I'm nervous because i'd like
Speaker 4: to see him have, you know, put together a couple
Speaker 4: of good starts now.
Speaker 3: But I think he's got it back in him.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: The consensus question from the crowd to finish up here
Speaker 1: is they wanted to know anyone else. I guess it's
Speaker 1: kind of in the Crochet category that you've been watching
Speaker 1: so far this year, where you're either really concerned with
Speaker 1: the trends or someone you're they're looking for someone who
Speaker 1: I mean, as the crowd put it, talk about someone
Speaker 1: who sucks. That's what they said. So I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: and there's two directions you can go. One is this
Speaker 1: person's not pitching well and I'm worried about his indicators
Speaker 1: and what his performance looks like and his stuff. Or
Speaker 1: I'm watching someone and I'm like, eh, it looks like
Speaker 1: they just had some bad at ball luck or something
Speaker 1: that was off that can be corrected.
Speaker 4: See the bat Crochet was the one who jumped out
Speaker 4: of me like that's the one I would love to
Speaker 4: talk about.
Speaker 3: And I think he's you know, he's fixable.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think if there's anybody else that's jumped
Speaker 4: out of me.
Speaker 3: On that side. I don't know me. Uh, I mean Webby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1: Log, So let me let me ask you about him.
Speaker 1: I know he rebounded a little bit yesterday. I think
Speaker 1: it was seven innings, three runs. Do you think with
Speaker 1: someone like that who is so great at locating that
Speaker 1: abs might hurt him in the long run because you
Speaker 1: can't get away with a little bit of dancing outside
Speaker 1: of the zone and kind of messing with the ump
Speaker 1: I don't want to say messing with the umpire, but
Speaker 1: he knows who the ump is and what he can get,
Speaker 1: and you're not going to get that same advantage. It's
Speaker 1: not like he doesn't have other tricks up his sleeve,
Speaker 1: but that is one that he just did so well
Speaker 1: for so many years, kind of just tiptoe in the
Speaker 1: line getting someone to either chase or to get that
Speaker 1: pitch out of the zone for a strike.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that that's a great point.
Speaker 4: I think the same thing lest so, Chris Basset's another
Speaker 4: guy that comes to mind who I thought would thrive
Speaker 4: with with the abs system because he throws some pitches
Speaker 4: that get some wicked break and could clip the top.
Speaker 3: Of the zone with some slow curves or something.
Speaker 4: It can be like, I think the umpires are definitely
Speaker 4: more disciplined now and not giving anything because they don't
Speaker 4: want to look like a fool in front of a
Speaker 4: stadium when something's challenged, and they you know, they're competitive too.
Speaker 4: They want to look good.
Speaker 3: So I I think it can have something to do
Speaker 3: with it. I don't.
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna need more more of a sample
Speaker 4: set on that because I saw good stuff out of web.
Speaker 4: I thought his pitch movement looked good yesterday, especially great
Speaker 4: location on rushing.
Speaker 3: Too soon.
Speaker 4: No, not at all, mistake, right, he clearly didn't know
Speaker 4: anything about that.
Speaker 1: No, he was completely unaware, right, ross unaware total what
Speaker 1: was going on that everyone else had seen on social media.
Speaker 3: Nobody talked about that in the clubhouse ever.
Speaker 1: Because yeah, and he's not a veteran that could place
Speaker 1: the baseball wherever he wants and send a message, right, Yes, So.
Speaker 4: His location was pretty good on that one, So I
Speaker 4: think he can locate when he wants.
Speaker 2: That's true. I like it well.
Speaker 1: On the way out here, Rob We appreciate you. Yet
Speaker 1: another plug for the book, just to let everyone know.
Speaker 1: Obviously they can get it wherever they want, but just
Speaker 1: to give people a little shout out on what they're
Speaker 1: missing if they don't read it.
Speaker 4: If they don't read it, they're going to keep wondering
Speaker 4: what's going on in today's game and why pitching looks
Speaker 4: so freaking nasty. If they do get it, they're going
Speaker 4: to learn and learn the people behind it that it's
Speaker 4: not just lifers in baseball. A lot of these guys
Speaker 4: came from the outside and kind of changed how we
Speaker 4: view the game or how we teach the game. So
Speaker 4: if you want to learn about pitching by my book.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: That's the best little twenty second pitch that you could
Speaker 1: put together.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: Good stuff, Rob, Great to see you again. Appreciate you.
Speaker 1: We'll catch you soon.
Speaker 4: Okay, absolutely, thanks for having me on fe