1 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: Yea. Let's begin with a hypothetical scenario. Friends and neighbors. 2 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: Imagine that you are in the eighteen hundreds. You're walking 3 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: down the street, minding your own weather business or pleasure it, 4 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: and you are kidnapped. You are accosted by a gang 5 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: of ruffians. You were taken to a room where there 6 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: are other hapless people like you. But instead of demanding 7 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: a ransom from your loved ones or immediately torturing you 8 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: or something like that, the kidnappers the first move is 9 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: to attempt to get you drunk, booze you up, to 10 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: booze you up. Uh. And we'll continue this story, but 11 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: first let's pause for the introduction. Hello, I'm Ben, I'm 12 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: no one. You know. The second thing they might have done, Ben, 13 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: is maybe put on a false mustache upon your face, 14 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: or perhaps a a straw hat, top hat, any kind 15 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,919 Speaker 1: of hat, a funny nose, maybe because they were trying 16 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: to uh disguise you right against your will for the 17 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: purposes of perpetrating voter fraud. I feel like the badger 18 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: could have stayed the bag for a second. But you 19 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: are spot on, and how ridiculous is this? Oh, we 20 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: have to remember to say hello, won't you join us, 21 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: friends and neighbors, fellow ridiculous historians in tilting your hat 22 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: to our super producer Casey Pegro. You're right, no, it 23 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: seems strange to think of it, because nowadays, when we 24 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: think of kidnapping, we think of you know, nefarious crime, right, yeah, 25 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: we think of you know, uh, wealthy or dare we say, 26 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: even middle class Americans traveling abroad in certain countries. Um, 27 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: Columbia got a pretty bad rap for this in years past, 28 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: um and getting nabbed you know, from tourist destinations and 29 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: held ransom for the wealthy or middle class families back 30 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: in America to send forth money for the release of 31 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: said hapless adult relatives who probably should have had their 32 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: wits more about it. Now I'm victim blaming. What a 33 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: way to start the episode. No, no, no, no, no. 34 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: I think I think this is a good place for 35 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: us to carve out a distinction, because you're absolutely right. Nowadays, 36 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: the first thing you think of when you hear kidnapping 37 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: is likely going to be one of two things. You're 38 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: going to think that someone is after money. Well, you're 39 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: going to think it maybe some creep with seedy or 40 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: sleazy intentions, pervy preoccupations. There we go, and I like 41 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: the alliteration, but let's not forget Ben, that there is 42 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: also political capital right right, And this is apropos in 43 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: this day and age, because regardless of where you find 44 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: yourself falling on either side of the false dichotomy known 45 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: as political parties here in the US, or whether you 46 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: are not in the US and you're afford observer, one 47 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: thing you've probably noticed is that the concept of voter 48 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: fraud has been making the headlines for the past few years. 49 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: It really has. Our current president made quite a to 50 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: do about it when it was looking like he wasn't 51 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: as much of a shoe in for the presidency as 52 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: he might have liked to believe um, and he started 53 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: planting the seeds of widespread voter fraud illegals, unregistered, undocumented immigrants, 54 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: or corruption at the local level going to the polls 55 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: and droves, or like you said, corruption at the local level. 56 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: Now we have largely electronic voter machine that there was 57 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:57,119 Speaker 1: even talk of hackery of of voting machine right right 58 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: through the de bolt connection exactly. So there were a 59 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: lot of red flags at least as far as d J. 60 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: T Right was concerned. That's Donald J. Trump. That's how 61 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to refer to him, the commander in chief. Yeah. 62 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: And what's important to note here is that allegations a 63 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: possible voter fraud came from all directions recently, but primarily 64 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: from President Trump's crew or supporters, and for people who 65 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: were critics of these allegations or accusations, this seemed like 66 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: an unfounded worldview or conclusion. But regardless of what we 67 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: think about the sanctity or the infallibility of the voting 68 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: process today, whether you think it's rigged, whether you think 69 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: it works okay, or whatever, the true and strange fact 70 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: of the matter is that back in the eighteen hundreds, 71 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, voter fraud was a huge thing. 72 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: As I like to say, Actually, my friend Frank likes 73 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: to say wide rife. We stole that from a British 74 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: television program, so that's you know, three degrees of catchphrase thievery. 75 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: But yes, just widespread all over the place, to the 76 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: point where it was like a joke right right. The 77 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: kidnapping that we described for you at the beginning of 78 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: the show, were you to encounter that, you would be 79 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: taken in uh in a practice called cooping, and this 80 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: would be exactly what we described. A group of people 81 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: kidnap you and several other folks attempt to get you 82 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: drunk and then convince you verbally to go cast your 83 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: vote for a certain political candidate. And the thing was 84 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: ben that wasn't even like the full scenario. There were 85 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: there was another group involved in this process, and they 86 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: were the ones who had already had their votes like 87 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: bought and paid for by these different groups and the 88 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: whole like boozing and food situation. They just kind of 89 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: got that as a as a perk. Yeah, like when 90 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: you get the cheese, it's and a little bit of 91 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: juice after you give blood. It's just a sort of 92 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: a spoils a political war. But I'm wondering if these 93 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: were like combined into a single event. Sometimes they were, Yeah, 94 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: sometimes they were. And the weird thing is when we 95 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: describe it immediately without context, to me personally, the idea 96 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: of being kidnapped, given free booze, and then being told 97 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: that I should go out and vote multiple times in 98 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: an assortment of disguises, ridiculous disguises, sounds fantastic. I mean, yeah, dude, 99 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: I'm a master disguise, I look like several different people. 100 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: You left that ofmercial detail. You might have also been beaten. 101 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: That's true. We do have to examine that part because 102 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: this was all this was all drunken, boozy funding games 103 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: and political crime. If the people who were being cooped 104 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: agreed to play along, if they did not play ball, 105 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: they were, as you said, no old beaten and in 106 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: some cases they were killed. Now, man, let's go back 107 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: to the origins of this kind of behavior. Something we 108 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: like to refer to in history as political machines. Yeah, 109 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: political machines. So you've probably heard this term before. You've 110 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: heard it alluded to, at least in some very popular 111 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: works of historical fiction and film and in novels. And 112 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: political machine is an organization that exists, typically on a 113 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: city or state level, to maintain its own power and 114 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: pursue its own interest which are often going to be corrupt. 115 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: For instance, a member of political machine a own stock 116 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: or has invested in a certain construction company. Then under 117 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: this political machine, that construction company is going to get 118 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: every bid, even if they are not as qualified, even 119 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: if they're more expensive, even if they're more expensive on 120 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: purpose that you know, and then that allows the machine 121 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: to skim some graft off and off air. You and 122 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: I have been talking about one of the most famous 123 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: political machines in United States history. Yeah, most famous largely 124 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: because it was one of the most effective and had 125 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: one of the longest reigns, and that was um Tammany Hall, 126 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: which I'm sure many of you have heard of, the 127 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: infamous Tammany Hall Boss pit Boss I guess William M. 128 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: Boss Tweed was his name, um, And they held sway, 129 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: this organization over New York City politics for decades. It 130 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: was formed in seventeen eighty nine and wasn't even fully 131 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: dismantled until nineteen sixty six. That was when John V. Lindsay, 132 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: who was the final mayor that had had enough of this. 133 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: He beat me, essentially rendered them kind of newtered them 134 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: right um. Another famous New York City mayor, Fiarello LaGuardia, 135 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: also put a stop to them between thirty four and 136 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: forty five. But then they kind of had a bit 137 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: of a resurgence until Lindsay came him. And the closest 138 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: thing that I can compare these political machines too, and 139 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: this one in particular, is the way the bad rap 140 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: we see unions getting Whereas obviously a union is a 141 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: functional thing. Obviously a political activist group has the potential 142 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: to be a functional, positive thing, mobilizes support for certain 143 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: candidates or certain causes that are would benefit the community. 144 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: But as we know with unions the history, there was 145 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: a lot of corruption there too that benefited particular stakeholders 146 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: that had a lot to gain. Yeah, And one of 147 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: the big differences that we need to demarcate here is 148 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: that in the case of activist groups, in the case 149 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: of community organization, those voting blocks typically are going to 150 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: be operating consensually with the support of the voters. And 151 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: in comparison, though cooping, this particular type of ridiculous voter fraud. 152 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: Cooping was inherent he associated with obviously political corruption, but 153 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: also with these political machines and they themselves, if we 154 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: returned to the Tammany Hall example, were intimately connected with 155 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: on the street crime. You've seen gangs of New York, 156 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: absolutely and one thing Tammany Hall did, and the reason 157 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: they were able to kind of persevere for so long 158 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: as they reached out to the most impoverished in the community, 159 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: including immigrants, Irish immigrants in particular, and That's how the 160 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: Irish got such a foothold in New York City politics 161 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: over the years is because of this Tammany Hall machine 162 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: that elevated them to positions of prominence through their control 163 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: of the electoral process right, and that also just gave 164 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: them a ground swell of political support because there were 165 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: a lot of immigrants coming into New York City all 166 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: the time. And you get off the boat, Tammany Hall 167 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: reaches out a helping hand, says, hey, we got you. 168 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: If you got us, all of a sudden, you own 169 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: the vote, right because who gave you the job, who 170 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: gave you the place to stay, who set you up 171 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: once you got off Ellis Island. There's a fantastic article 172 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: we'd like to recommend from Atlas Obscura called election fraud 173 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds involved kidnapping and forced the drinking, 174 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: by author Natalie Zarelli. And in this article she includes 175 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: a quote from a New York City gang leader named 176 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: mon Eastman m o n. He said, I make half 177 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: a big politicians, meaning that he was publicly acknowledging that 178 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: he was. He and his gang were working for Tammany Hall, 179 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: taking people by hook or by crook, make them like 180 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm a bookmaker, like that that that I did that right, 181 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: taking them by hook or by crook, and cajoling them 182 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: to vote multiple times. I keep going back to the costumes. 183 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: I wonder if the costumes were any good, because at 184 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: this level of coruption, the people manning the polls, and 185 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: you can see some of these pictures, I think the 186 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: people manning the polls were also in on the game 187 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: to get get a kick out of this. Then Ben 188 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: in a in an article for Mental Flaws, Democracy's Dirty History, 189 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: um one of the coop bosses. I guess this is 190 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: the term that was used here of Tammany hall Um. 191 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: He described the smartest way to get the most bang 192 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: for your buck in terms of, you know, kidnapping these folks. 193 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: He could get four votes out of one human person. 194 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: Um he vote, had him vote one time with a 195 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: full beard, then again with some take off the beard 196 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: mutton chops, you know, maybe keep the beard on, I'm 197 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: not sure, unclear, and then a third time only a mustache, 198 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: and then finally the kudagra the clean shaven vote. And 199 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: I was actually talking with super producer Casey Pegram off air, 200 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: and I wanted to ask this to you, Ben, was 201 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: there no means, or if only rudimentary means of confirming 202 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: someone's identity when they were voting in these days? What 203 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: was that like? It's an interesting question. It's one that 204 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: has echoes and consequences here in the modern day with 205 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: the argument over voter I D Cards, which is a 206 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: big problem with the Trump stuff we woul talking about earlier. 207 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: That was a big beef where a lot of places 208 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: in the United States got rid of those voter I 209 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: D laws because they are considered by many to be 210 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: inherently racist, right, and as horrific and sad as it is, 211 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: we have to we would be remiss if we did 212 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: not point out that one of the most immediate ways 213 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: people at the polls or polling officials decided whether or 214 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: not someone was qualified to vote was by observing the 215 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: color of their skin, which is a huge travesty. But 216 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: in addition to that, we have to wonder if there 217 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: were some sort of proof of residency, like an address, perhaps, 218 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: because in these accounts of voter fraud, one thing that 219 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: we don't see mentioned at all is any mention of 220 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: paperwork involved. We just see disguises, And obviously you could 221 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: vote while you were rip roar and drunk, clearly. And 222 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: the thing too, is like if the fix here, the 223 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: the scam was just to buy a bunch of fake 224 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: mustaches and beard they obviously didn't have a whole you know, 225 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: counterfeiting department, you know, uh, stamping out fake passports or 226 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: birth certificate documentation or anything like that, So it seems 227 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: to me like it was a much more on a 228 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: eyeball recognition and a handshake and a promise kind of 229 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: in these days. Right. Yeah, and here's something else weird. 230 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: Until the introduction of what was called the Australian ballot 231 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: in the eighties, when you voted, your voting choice was 232 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: public viva vote. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly what is 233 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: it with the human voice? I believe that's the actual term. Yeah, 234 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: this is kind of where we see the start. Maybe 235 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: not with the coercion and the kidnapping, but in the 236 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: early days of democracy, voting was always a pretty contentious 237 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: situation because if you had to say, in front of 238 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: God and your peers and your township and everyone who 239 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: you voted for, if they and agree with you, they 240 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: might try to kick your ass. Yeah try being the 241 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: hopeful addition to that sentence there. Yeah, there's an article 242 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: on History Extra called A Brief History of Election Rigging 243 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: in the US that covers some of this. And the 244 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: strange thing is that what we're describing is absolutely correct. 245 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: So voters would line up to cast their ballots with 246 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: party operatives on the side telling them to do the vote, 247 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: or trying to bribe them to do the vote, or 248 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: trying to talk them into or out of the vote. 249 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: That's why. Why do you think it's so important that 250 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: we don't allow campaigning at polling places today? Clearly an 251 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: offshoot of this kind of behavior, right, Yeah, and it's 252 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: still it's still in a strange way. Look, the states 253 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: are doing their collective best with the voting process, but 254 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: there's still gang rules. I'm sure there are still people 255 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: who wear a who say, Okay, I can't support a 256 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: political candidate, but let me wear an all blue or 257 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: all red. I don't know a onesie I've never seen 258 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: in anybody in a once. But there's weird rules about 259 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: that stuff too, Like you certainly couldn't, definitely couldn't wear 260 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: like a vote for Hillary t shirt. Heck no, But 261 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: if you wore some kind of dog whistle thing that 262 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: let people know I'm watching you. And that's the thing too. 263 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: Trump actually encouraged he sees He said, Okay, there's gonna 264 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: be this widespread voter fraud, and he encouraged his supporters 265 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: to quote keep an eye on the polls. Yeah, and 266 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: maybe make people a little uncomfortable. I had heard about 267 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: that too, and whether that results in physical activity on 268 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: the ground. What remains in arguable is that this did 269 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: not come straight out of the blue, straight out of 270 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: left field. This has vast historical precedent here in the US. 271 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: Violence in voting in the eighteen hundreds was common enough 272 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: that up to a point, it was just considered part 273 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: of the voting process, was just the thing, It was 274 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: what to be expected, right, yeah, Yeah. In the logic 275 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: was this there's a little misogyny in here, of course, 276 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: but the logic was if a vote was not quote 277 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: unquote manly enough to stand up for his chosen convictions 278 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: and the candidates of his choice, then uh, if they 279 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: if they couldn't, if they couldn't man up as the 280 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: case were against, a little bit of rowdiness is some fisticuffs, 281 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: even some cajoling from supporters of other candidates, then were 282 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: they really even fit to vote? How is the idea? 283 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: And it's interesting too how alcohol plays a role in 284 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: this from the start as well, even before the kidnapping 285 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: and shoving fake mustaches on people's faces. In this mental 286 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: flass article, it references the fact that even George Washington 287 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: himself understood that's maybe you might need a little bit 288 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: of liquid courage at the polls because of this whole 289 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: idea of standing up for what you believed, and if 290 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: you need to have your voice be louder than the opposition, 291 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: you might need to be a little tanked before you 292 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: do this. And he ran for the Virginia House of 293 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: Burgesses in seventy eight and gave voters at the polls 294 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: eight gallons of rum, fifty gallons of rum punch, thirty 295 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: four gallons of wine, forty six gallons of beer, and 296 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: two gallons of hard cider. Uh. No mention on whether 297 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: he distributed his famous eggnog. No, but he did talk 298 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: about he did use the expression swilling the planters with 299 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: bumbo um, which is a I'm pretty tasty sounding yet 300 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: boozy cocktail consisting of rum, water, sugar, nutmeg, and optional cinnamon. 301 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,959 Speaker 1: And I do want to point out for everyone who 302 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: might have had the question. All those gallons you heard about, 303 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: those were total for the day, because we're not per person. 304 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: It was not that wealthy. But uh, he was onto something. 305 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: This was This was common in the eighteen hundreds, the 306 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: practice of cooping. It had a timeline that we should mention. 307 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: They weren't kidnapping people on the day of voting. They 308 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: were kidnapping the like up to two or three days 309 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: before and keeping them in a windowless base against their will, 310 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: against their or maybe not, I don't know. They probably 311 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: pulled a lot of homeless people too. We're happy to 312 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: have a warm place to stay. What a nightmare. But 313 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: here's the thing. This, this is so off topic, but 314 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: this reminded me of a story a Russian friend of 315 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: mine told me about a really disturbing game and and please, uh, 316 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: fellow Russian ridiculous historians, let us know if this is 317 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: an actual thing, because I have always been captivated about this. No, 318 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: it's a game called submarine, so it doesn't even sound 319 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: like a game to me. I don't entirely understand the point. 320 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: Does it involve sandwiches? Kind of the story? Is this 321 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: that a group of people would get together and then again. 322 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: I heard this from a Russian friend who is telling 323 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: me about Russian games. Group of people get together. They'll 324 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: get an apartment and they'll nail up planks or black 325 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: out all the windows, and they'll get locked in with 326 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: like cold cuts and brad absolute darkness and just a 327 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: ton of booze, like hard liquor, and they'll be in 328 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: there for days in total dark, just drinking and eating 329 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: cold cuts, and one person who was also on the 330 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: game comes by later to unlock the door and let 331 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: them out. That sounds incredibly disturbing to me. Wow, is 332 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: this sort of like a battle royale with like sandwich 333 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: meats and booze kind of situation? I have no idea, 334 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: because you know, I am expecting to find when they 335 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: come let them out. I have no idea. Maybe it's 336 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: a spiritual revelatory thing, but what was happening with cooping 337 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: was uncomfortably close to that, And since there were so 338 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: many people in on it, the law or the legal 339 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: system was really hard pressed to impose some kind of 340 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: consequence for this, because the people who were rigging the 341 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: vote were the people who were in charge of giving 342 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: the y or need to a judge. So for a judge, 343 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: it's political suicide in many cases, especially in New York 344 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: at the time, to stand up against this. Did you 345 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: read the bit about how election poll workers were also 346 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: at risk, ben Um of one thing that I saw 347 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: was having their coffee spiked with laxatives so that they 348 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: quote would be otherwise engaged during the most important phase 349 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: of the count um. This is again from that mental 350 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: flaws article by A. J. Jacobs. So no one was safe. 351 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: None were safe, Ben Yeah. None. And as a matter 352 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: of fact, the public had a bit of hypocrisy about 353 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: this because people were aware of and disgusted by this 354 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: practice specifically cooping, but corruption overall in domestic politics. But 355 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: it was so common, so baked in that we found 356 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: accounts of it happening in multiple states, not just in 357 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: New York. And this practice cantinued through the end of 358 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: the nineteen century. They also had cases in nineteen ten, 359 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: there was one in Adams County, Ohio, where a judge 360 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 1: is a little unusual, actually brought to trial and convicted. 361 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: Get this, one thousand, six hundred and ninety voters twenty 362 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: six of the electorate of the county for selling their votes. 363 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: And you know, again we have to wonder was the 364 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: were the voters in question falling for a more gentle 365 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: Washingtonian bribery scam or was it a more violent nice 366 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: farm be a shame if something happened to happen to 367 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: Boss Tweed kind of yeah, and Ben Um, I was surprised, Yeah, 368 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: not surprised. It makes perfect sense that we inherited this 369 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: from our former rulers in the in the United Kingdom. 370 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah. This uh, this, this cooping 371 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: was was part of their electoral process as well. And 372 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: I found a delightful passage from a book called Knowing 373 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: Right from Wrong The Insanity Defense of Daniel McNaughton that 374 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: describes cooping in English elections UM in eighteen thirty four. 375 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: And here goes this story UM from this book by 376 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: Richard Moran. Quote. If bribery and improper influence failed to 377 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: persuade reluctant voters, they wanted them to vote Tory. Uh, 378 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: there was always violence and intimidation. The practice of cooping 379 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: or abducting an opponent's supporters until after the election was 380 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: nearly universal. Consequently, cooping one's own supporters and keeping them 381 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: locked up in a public house a pub until it 382 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: was time to vote developed as a defensive response. Here's 383 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: here's the best part. Where you have these factions warring 384 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: with each other. It was not uncommon for large groups 385 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: of drunken voters to be escorted under guard to the 386 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: polling place in Ireland where wholesale cooping took place. Refusal 387 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: to surrender to what one historian has called aremonious abduction 388 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: carried with it the full wrath of the landlords. The 389 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: bar keeps. He goes on to say, Um, how people 390 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: who manage the campaign's actually hired these gangs of what 391 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: are deemed bullies to intimidate and physically abuse voters. Um. 392 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: And then he goes on to say election day and 393 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: many towns and boroughs was characterized by riots and mob violence. 394 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: At Hertford, the Tory candidate Lord Industr and Lord Mohan 395 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: employed a band of gypsies to harass Radical voters. The 396 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: radical candidate Thomas Duncombe retaliated by hiring a hundred and 397 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: fifty where Bargeman, So you know, fight fire with fire 398 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: or gypsies with Bargeman. There was also an intensely close, 399 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: and I would think much more publicly acknowledged link between 400 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: politics and entertainment, which to a degree helps us contextualize 401 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: this practice. So public politics had, uh, you know, had 402 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: a ton of drinking involved at the time. There were 403 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: a lot of torchlit rallies, and there were things called 404 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: jollification barbecues. Right, I want to be jollified. And in 405 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: an article rilling Up the Shrewd Wild Boys by John 406 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: grinspon uh, we explore some of the differences between then 407 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: and today. So during the peak of American campaign excitement, 408 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: he writes, our democracy was louder, meaner, and merrier than 409 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: it had ever been before. Populist campaigners perfected the art 410 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: of political show business, a genre. And he gets his 411 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: licks in here that seems to be making a comeback. 412 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: He's writing in prescient right and right. Uh. And so 413 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: from eighteen forty through nineteen hundred, he says, uh, these 414 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: types of campaigns did select people who would lead the 415 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: government at this stage unanimously all men. And but they 416 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: also were the best show in town. These were gaudy, 417 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: gonzo rituals, and people would go a political people would 418 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: go just because it was great food, tons of cheaper 419 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: free booze. And then there were shows that were singing. 420 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: There was partying. There were the pretty much distracts of 421 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: the time, which were these fiery invectives against those monsters 422 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 1: and traders or or they would sometimes say, perhaps not 423 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: entirely American opponents. Oh yeah, you know what, it makes 424 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: me think of that scene in um Oh brother ware 425 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: art thou where it's you know, is he is or 426 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: is you ain't my constituency and he has like dwarves 427 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: and it's all like this crazy smoke and mirrors, kind 428 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: of like P. T. Barnum esque atmosphere with banners and 429 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: parades and all this stuff, you know, some of which 430 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: we still see today, but much more cartoonish. To to 431 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: borrow your your word of choice there, thank you, it's 432 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: a it's a go to. Well. Here's the thing, though, 433 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: because we're talking about this practice which was wild, which 434 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: was common, which was real, But we have ignored up 435 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: to this point the fact that several great and acclaimed 436 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: US politicians were alive and active during this time, and 437 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: they were also doing the same sort of thing. Maybe 438 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: not cooping, but politicians themselves encouraged that. We even have 439 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: a record of Abraham Lincoln in the eighteen forties planning 440 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: what he thought would be a great party. That headline 441 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: wild Shrewd Boys comes from his letter that he wrote 442 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: that sounds like a really cool party crew, the Wild 443 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: Shrewd Boys. It does. I would I would love to 444 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: see them at a house party, so long as it 445 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: was not my house. And as you mentioned earlier, been 446 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: there was a time where you know, you poll workers 447 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: would know whether it was okay for someone to vote 448 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: or not simply by looking at the color of their skin, 449 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: you know, seeing if they were in fact or not white. 450 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: But then we have them answered patient in the late 451 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: eighteen sixties, so we have that fantastic article from history 452 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: extra dot com that talks about the plight of African 453 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: Americans after this period in time, and especially in the South, 454 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: there was a sense that um, even though black men 455 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: did receive the franchise, their very presence at these elections 456 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: was seen as an affront to the election process and 457 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: that they were somehow plants from you know, Northern Yankee 458 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: carpet bagger scum, trying to rig the election in their 459 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: union love and favor. Gross gross stuff again, Yeah, that 460 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: is he is or is you ain't? My constituency stuff 461 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: comes to mind. So a long, hard fought battle to 462 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: where we are now with elections, which clearly people still 463 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: have some issues with. I don't think we're ever going 464 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: to be fully comfortable with something as important as the 465 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: election process, cause I've always wondered, why don't they just 466 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: put it all online? There's an answer to that from purists, right, well, yeah, 467 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: but then again it's it's something that's two answers, one 468 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: from the realm of idealism and one from the realm 469 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: of well, how low can people go? Morally speaking? The 470 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: thing is there is always someone who can go lower 471 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: than you in the game of morality limbo. I'm actually 472 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,959 Speaker 1: happy with that. A lot of these comparisons don't work 473 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: because you are shooting from the hip. But that wouldn't 474 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: that wasn't that bad? No, man, well done? Should we 475 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: put it on a T shirt? Hey? What what do 476 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: you say? Historians? We do have a new T shirt 477 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: shop coming up at T Public if you haven't heard 478 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: of it, where they do this thing where we can 479 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: we can drum up a catchphrase design and ah and 480 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: two shakes of a Lamb's Tale. So if you guys 481 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: want some unique short run, ridiculous history catchphrase, tease or 482 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: hoodies or you know, throw pillows. Sure, let us know, 483 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,719 Speaker 1: park Is, I don't know, we're just making stuff up. 484 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: Or let us know what what you think? Bunny hugs? Yeah, yeah, 485 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: while it's um Jenko jeans, I don't think they make 486 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: those anymore, Dude, I think it's over for Jenjens. Somebody 487 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: still has a pair. I'm sure we would like to 488 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: hear your ideas for that. I think we're already both 489 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: pretty much sold on Son of a Fish and Ship 490 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: Show shirts, respectively, but we want to hear your designs 491 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: and ideas. What would be a cool T shirt? This 492 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: is so new and strange to us, I think we're 493 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: gonna get very weird with it. Yeah. And the best 494 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: place to do that, um, if you don't want to 495 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: just email us directly at Ridiculous at how stuff works 496 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: dot com, is to hit us up on our Facebook group, 497 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: the Ridiculous Historians, which you can join via your mobile 498 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: or desktop Facebook app. And we've got a cool little 499 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: community there and we hop in there and hang and 500 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: chatowy now and then, so, um, maybe we could do 501 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: a pole ben I want to. So this is the 502 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: idea I proposed. No, no, you have you can confirm 503 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: that you have not heard about this until we're on air, 504 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: But I'd to do maybe one pole a week on 505 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, just about stuff. We could do a poll, 506 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: for instance, on vote for a favorite T shirt concept. 507 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: We could also do a poll on questions about where 508 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: you and your fellow listeners stand on a particular topic 509 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: brought up in an episode, because if we've learned one 510 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: thing from today's show, it's that, Uh, no matter how 511 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: much we knocked the voting process today, it's way cooler now. Yeah, 512 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: he should do it. It's important, especially you know on 513 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: our Facebook page. Yeah, I be the change start on 514 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Let us know. You can also find us 515 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: on Twitter. You can find us on Instagram where we 516 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: are some variety of Ridiculous History or Ridiculous History show. 517 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: And if you want to see us live in the 518 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,239 Speaker 1: flesh and person in human form, we will be at 519 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: the Trocadero Theater in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on July the first, 520 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: four o'clock PM alongside our buddies Will and Mango from 521 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius and we're gonna do our first ever 522 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: LIVET show and we're super stoked about it. Yeah, wish 523 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: us luck, Come, come, cheer us on or laugh at 524 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: us in person, because one thing we can promise you 525 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: is that there are several surprises in store, But what 526 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: are they. No spoilers, you'll have to tune in. None spoilers, 527 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: but hey, we'll see you there or next time on 528 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: another episode of ridiculous History. Take care, everyone,