Speaker 1: Loud and Quiet presents Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: This episode of Midnight Chats is a bit out of
Speaker 2: the ordinary for us. Normally we record these conversations in
Speaker 2: our office in East London. Sometimes Stuart or I Greg
Speaker 2: get out in the fresh air and take them somewhere else.
Speaker 2: But only once before this time last year with Anna Meredith.
Speaker 2: Actually have we recorded an episode in front of an
Speaker 2: audience of other real life people. And what you're about
Speaker 2: to hear took place at this year's End of the
Speaker 2: Road Festival in Dorset at the start of September. Recorded
Speaker 2: at the more sociable time of midday on the Saturday
Speaker 2: on the Piano Stage, which is a stage in the
Speaker 2: woods at the festival, decorated like an old person's living room.
Speaker 2: It's actually very nice and you can hear throughout the
Speaker 2: podcast the birds tweeting in the background, so all very idyllic.
Speaker 2: And thanks to all those people who came to watch,
Speaker 2: listen and take part at the time on the day
Speaker 2: with your hangovers. Like I say, it was something different
Speaker 2: for us. I couldn't have asked for a more charismatic,
Speaker 2: interesting and inspiring guest for the occasion. Nadan Shah, who
Speaker 2: was playing the festival joined me to talk about a
Speaker 2: whole range of things, from watching Lucinda Williams perform the
Speaker 2: night before to her recently released third album, Holiday Destination,
Speaker 2: And to be honest, it's rare for an episode to
Speaker 2: be both so entertaining and so poignant. It was really
Speaker 2: insightful stuff from the Dean, and along with it some
Speaker 2: great stories about the likes of Scott Walker, PJ. Harvey
Speaker 2: and Jomy Corbyn's new curtains. But I'm not going to
Speaker 2: ruin it. That's all I'm going to say. But I
Speaker 2: just hope you enjoy listening to it. If you do,
Speaker 2: please do you subscribe or leave a comment review wherever
Speaker 2: you're listening. And a massive thanks again to Nadan Shah
Speaker 2: and End of the Road. This is episode thirty three
Speaker 2: of Midnight Chats.
Speaker 3: How are you doing, Nadean Chat?
Speaker 1: I'm all right, hanging on by a thread.
Speaker 3: Really not feeling too good.
Speaker 1: A little bit ropie.
Speaker 4: In fact, I played it quite I was quite safe
Speaker 4: last night and that I watched Lucinda play, who was
Speaker 4: one of the I think it's one of the most
Speaker 4: inspiring things I've ever seen. Actually, prior to watching her
Speaker 4: last night, i'd never even heard about it.
Speaker 1: So it was one of those things when you go
Speaker 1: to a festival and you.
Speaker 4: Find a real gem and it's very rare that we
Speaker 4: hear older women's voices in the music industry, and what
Speaker 4: an inspiration she was.
Speaker 1: It was this.
Speaker 4: But then went to bed pretty early after that, but
Speaker 4: there was some party animals next door. I mean I
Speaker 4: felt like this grumpy old keep it down, keep it down,
Speaker 4: but uh yeah, three hours sleep but hanging.
Speaker 2: In Yeah, And is End the Road one of those
Speaker 2: festivals that you would come to to go and check
Speaker 2: out music that you're interesting, because it can't be often
Speaker 2: when you go and perform at these type of things.
Speaker 2: It must be the case that you have to turn up,
Speaker 2: you perform, you leave. But is it sort of end
Speaker 2: of the road Glastonbury style? Do you try and go
Speaker 2: to these type of places and come and hang out
Speaker 2: for the weekend?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I went to Glastonbury this year, but
Speaker 4: it's it's not really a festival that I enjoy. I
Speaker 4: know it's the most famous one, but there's I always
Speaker 4: find out. I have like a list of things that
Speaker 4: I want to see at Glastonbury, and I see one
Speaker 4: out of twenty.
Speaker 1: Fave because it's just too big.
Speaker 4: And actually I came to the end of the road
Speaker 4: two years ago were played, but I was only it
Speaker 4: was like an in and out job, like a bank robbery.
Speaker 4: I think it was like three hours and then out
Speaker 4: to another one. But even those three hours, I was like,
Speaker 4: this is one I want to revisit. So I'm here
Speaker 4: the whole weekend and like, yeah, I discovered Lucinda last night.
Speaker 4: There's loads of bands that I want to see. Unfortunately
Speaker 4: I missed Goat Girl. I really wanted to see them.
Speaker 4: But Lemon Twigs are playing after me this evening and
Speaker 4: I'm really looking forward to seeing them. But I think
Speaker 4: it's a pretty special festival actually, like the size of
Speaker 4: it is ace. Everyone's oh, so we'reccommodating and that you
Speaker 4: get people bringing you with beer.
Speaker 3: Saying nice things. We should just keep saying nice things.
Speaker 5: Ah.
Speaker 4: I want if you can get this sound on the podcast, Oh.
Speaker 3: There you go. That's gonna sound crispus.
Speaker 1: That is my favorite noise.
Speaker 3: It's mine too. I think we might have a Probably.
Speaker 4: I was pretty terrible because initially I thought this actually
Speaker 4: was a midnight chat.
Speaker 1: I thought that would be quite funny for you guys.
Speaker 4: But I mean I told my mother about it before
Speaker 4: I came, and she'ld like ask what the itinerary was
Speaker 4: of what I was doing. It's like, well, I'm going
Speaker 4: to play a gig and then after the show, like
Speaker 4: at midnight, I'm going to have a chat.
Speaker 1: And my mother was like, no, don't, don't, don't do that.
Speaker 3: Pr shus and say it's not a good idea.
Speaker 4: Oh, she says, I've got the mouth of a fish wafe.
Speaker 4: So yeah, she's always pretty terrified. I can see her
Speaker 4: in the audience when I play shows and she's just
Speaker 4: like what she just terrified about what I'm going to say.
Speaker 4: She's very proud of me. But yeah, I'm glad this
Speaker 4: is at midday. But I had to have like a
Speaker 4: hair of the dog, and I'm glad I've got that
Speaker 4: in man. Now I feel slightly less nervous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what's what's I've been brought upon
Speaker 2: pint of water, so maybe I'm kind of like then,
Speaker 2: you obviously a talent.
Speaker 4: The artist, living up to every type.
Speaker 3: You.
Speaker 2: You often go and see other bands other people play live,
Speaker 2: which I think is interesting because when we speak to
Speaker 2: other artists, when we have other people on the podcast
Speaker 2: that we would call like this, They tend to very
Speaker 2: much kind of concentrate on their own thing, and they
Speaker 2: might catch a bit of other bands playing, or other
Speaker 2: artists performing at festivals or at their own gigs, support bands,
Speaker 2: things like that, but they don't actively go out and
Speaker 2: go and see shows that regularly.
Speaker 3: You do? How often do you go to a gig?
Speaker 2: And why do you still kind of outside of making
Speaker 2: your own music, you're still really inquisitive about going to
Speaker 2: see like live artists.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I treat music as a job, in a
Speaker 4: proper job, in that it's my trade, you know, And
Speaker 4: I don't know about you know, whatever industry you're working
Speaker 4: or whatever it is that you do. You want to
Speaker 4: be the you know, the best you can be at it,
Speaker 4: and I'm constantly learning but always inspired by so many
Speaker 4: other artists. Yeah, I don't go to as many gigs
Speaker 4: as say a Big.
Speaker 3: Jeff You does everybody know Big Jeff Jeff's.
Speaker 4: At the first If he's not at my show, I'll
Speaker 4: be devastated. Like, if Big Jeff's are not at your show,
Speaker 4: it's just not worth playing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I went to see Kelly le Owens yesterday and he
Speaker 2: was down the front and I was pointing him out
Speaker 2: to friends and family that I was with, and I
Speaker 2: was like, it's a good sign if you've got Jeff there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that man.
Speaker 4: He's a real beauty and he's one of the reasons
Speaker 4: we do what we do if you're a musician as well,
Speaker 4: and I just I think he's a really great, great man.
Speaker 1: I love him.
Speaker 4: And but yeah, I'll probably go to about three or
Speaker 4: four gigs a week if I can. I'm just constantly
Speaker 4: learning from other artists, and I'm also trying to rip
Speaker 4: them off.
Speaker 3: It's going to say to go with a notepad, right.
Speaker 4: Not a notepad, But I just I want to see
Speaker 4: what other people are up to and just keep an
Speaker 4: eye an them. Are you know, just making sure that
Speaker 4: no one's like stepping on me toes?
Speaker 1: What what's he doing? I'm having that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm constantly going gigs all the time.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: What was the last mind blowing show that you went
Speaker 2: to see that you still think about now?
Speaker 1: Last?
Speaker 4: Well, the Lucinda one last night was a pretty special
Speaker 4: one actually, especially when it's something that you don't but
Speaker 4: you have no.
Speaker 1: Prior knowledge to it and it's a real surprise.
Speaker 4: Apart from that, what did I see last?
Speaker 1: Can remember? What it's all lost?
Speaker 4: Oh, I've been at a few Rough Trade East in
Speaker 4: Store shows and I saw Richard Dawson play. Richard Dawson's
Speaker 4: from my hometown as well. And I mean, like, I'm
Speaker 4: going to stop going to his gigs because it just
Speaker 4: makes me want to quit.
Speaker 1: I'm never going to achieve that. Never. He's I think.
Speaker 4: He's he's very special, yeah really, and he's he's unique,
Speaker 4: you know. And I used to go and watch him
Speaker 4: back in Newcastle that like before he was like a
Speaker 4: name everyone knew, not even everyone knows him now. But
Speaker 4: I'd go and see him at like at house parties
Speaker 4: and stuff. He just like whip out his guitar. But
Speaker 4: normally if you're a house party and it gets to
Speaker 4: that out when someone rips out a guitar, you want
Speaker 4: to hit him over the head with it. It's just
Speaker 4: it's the most cringe worthy experience. You're like, oh, it's
Speaker 4: time to google, it's time when rich When Richard Dawson
Speaker 4: brings out his guitar, I think it's.
Speaker 1: Probably the closest thing I've ever had to.
Speaker 4: A religious experience watching Richard Dawson play this powerhouse and
Speaker 4: his lyrics are just like they're phenomenal, Like he's a genius.
Speaker 4: He has a song called the Veil Stuff and in
Speaker 4: that song he mentions loads of people that like characters
Speaker 4: from Newcastle that I know and we've grown up with.
Speaker 4: And he's just a very clever, brilliant artist. So probably
Speaker 4: Richard Dawson actually excellent.
Speaker 2: He's just made it to His latest album is called Peasants,
Speaker 2: so if anybody hasn't checked him out, it's a it's
Speaker 2: like a medieval concept folk.
Speaker 3: Record, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't describe what it's about because all of
Speaker 4: his music's a bit too clever for me.
Speaker 1: I don't know. There'll be some article about it somewhere.
Speaker 4: Where and he goes into great depth about it, but
Speaker 4: it's it's a beautiful album.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned the Northeast there, you're from South Shields.
Speaker 2: Tell us a bit about if people. I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: hoping that lots of people here are kind of familiar
Speaker 2: with the Dean and the music that she makes, but
Speaker 2: for those that aren't, like tell us a bit about
Speaker 2: growing up in South Shields and your kind of family
Speaker 2: background and just how you your sort of formative years
Speaker 2: of music discovery kind of took place.
Speaker 4: Is anybody here ever been to Cell Shields? You have
Speaker 4: got I recognize you.
Speaker 1: Uncle Dave. Are you doing yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Rough trade easter?
Speaker 3: You were it?
Speaker 1: Are you love? You weren't lying?
Speaker 4: I remember saying to you like your better come and
Speaker 4: see me, and you did go on all right. Well,
Speaker 4: one person's been to Cell Shields. It's well a seaside town.
Speaker 4: Me mother was born in South Shields. My father's from Pakistan.
Speaker 4: He came over to the UK. Oh, I'm going to
Speaker 4: get it wrong. I think it was nineteen seventy one
Speaker 4: from Pakistan and South Shields is always actually like what
Speaker 4: really grains my gears. There's a lot of people, especially
Speaker 4: after the referendum, especially after Brexit, people pointing their fingers
Speaker 4: at the northeast and saying, oh, because they voted leave.
Speaker 1: There was this mass assumption that are racists and it's
Speaker 1: just not the case.
Speaker 4: In fact, it's a very diverse community Historically in South Shields,
Speaker 4: because it's a port town. We've had people from all
Speaker 4: over the world in and out of there. There's a
Speaker 4: huge Yemeni community. Muhammad Ali got married in a mosque
Speaker 4: in South Shields.
Speaker 1: I wasn't there.
Speaker 4: I don't know if I was born then, I don't
Speaker 4: know if I'm going to lie about the stage age
Speaker 4: or not. If I'm going back my stage age. I
Speaker 4: definitely wasn't born. But it's a really beautiful place.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 4: I love going back there, but growing up there boring,
Speaker 4: pretty boring. But I think a lot of people find
Speaker 4: that with the places that they grow up, you have
Speaker 4: this this time where you know a lot of people.
Speaker 4: You leave your hometown and you go elsewhere, and when
Speaker 4: you get a bit older, you get a little bit more,
Speaker 4: you get a bit more reflective on things.
Speaker 1: And I love going back there.
Speaker 4: My parents live on the cliff tops overlooking the North Sea,
Speaker 4: and it's just kind of mind blowing.
Speaker 1: When I go back, I forget.
Speaker 4: I mean, I used to hate it because I think
Speaker 4: there was this article in the guard You know something
Speaker 4: I was interviewed for a while back, and it was
Speaker 4: about musicians that are from seaside towns and I was
Speaker 4: asking the journalist is there like have you when you've
Speaker 4: been interviewing people is like a similar thing? They're all saying,
Speaker 4: is there anything which unites us all? And he said, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: everyone's saying how bleak it is living in these seaside.
Speaker 1: Towns, and that's for a few reasons, and that.
Speaker 4: I guess before air travel was so accessible and it
Speaker 4: was so cheap, people would go to seaside towns on
Speaker 4: holidays and so lots of them are kind of almost
Speaker 4: like ghost towns now. And you see a lot of
Speaker 4: on the East Coast, especially a lot of kind of
Speaker 4: faded glory, these grand, grand buildings, kind of a bit
Speaker 4: worn down.
Speaker 1: But I think there's also a lot of beauty to
Speaker 1: that at this time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's quite charming, yah, but it is though,
Speaker 4: there is that, But I think that makes you want
Speaker 4: to leave because there's just not a lot going on there.
Speaker 1: But I love going back. It's amazing.
Speaker 4: It's a place I might want to go back and
Speaker 4: make me home there, which I never ever thought. I'd say,
Speaker 4: I've been in London for fifteen years and I moved
Speaker 4: to London when I was I'm gonna get me maths, right,
Speaker 4: I think I was seventeen when I'm to London. I'm
Speaker 4: thirty one. Now you do the math. So I'll just
Speaker 4: sing the songs. Richard Dawson would know the figures straight away,
Speaker 4: the clever bugger. But yeah, I've been in London for
Speaker 4: a really long time and I love it, but I'm
Speaker 4: frustrated with it.
Speaker 1: But it's where it's where.
Speaker 4: I kind of cut my teeth in the music industry,
Speaker 4: and that's where I did only slogging away at gigs
Speaker 4: was in London, not in the Northeast, because the Northeast
Speaker 4: was kind of dominated by male bands and it was
Speaker 4: really hot to kind of get in that clique. A
Speaker 4: lot of them have embraced me now, which is lush,
Speaker 4: some good friends with like Maximo Parkfield Music and all
Speaker 4: in the Future Heads, all that bunch, and they're great,
Speaker 4: but at the time it was just kind of impossible
Speaker 4: to get in that scene.
Speaker 2: Okay, why do you think that was what? There was
Speaker 2: a certain closed mindedness. This is only like ten years ago,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 1: I don't think there was a closed mindedness at all.
Speaker 4: I think it just it just so happened that there
Speaker 4: were so many of these bands. They were a bunch
Speaker 4: of mates essentially, and I don't know, I get really
Speaker 4: frustrated with the mus industry daily about how I think
Speaker 4: it needs to be a lot more inclusive in so
Speaker 4: many ways.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that the.
Speaker 4: Music industry at present properly represents how diverse this country
Speaker 4: is and who is making music. South Asian artists are
Speaker 4: definitely underrepresented. Female artists are un unrepresented as well in that.
Speaker 1: And also we get there's like loads of issues, like the.
Speaker 4: Term female solo artists just become a genre, which is mad.
Speaker 4: So I'm getting compare to like Laura Marling all the time.
Speaker 4: I'm like, wait, I wish I was like Laura Marling,
Speaker 4: but I'm not. You just kind of get bandied in
Speaker 4: the same and just get kind of put in the
Speaker 4: same category and it's weird.
Speaker 1: Hopefully it's changing. I can't remember the question.
Speaker 2: Do you see any signs of positive progress? Because we
Speaker 2: can talk about this in a bit, but you've been
Speaker 2: very You've been like a passionate campaigner for they're talking
Speaker 2: about mental health issues for example, and also you know
Speaker 2: a quality within the music industry. So do you see
Speaker 2: any signs in the time.
Speaker 3: That you've been involved with the industry.
Speaker 2: I've made three records, been giging for a long time
Speaker 2: decade more So, have you seen a big change or not?
Speaker 2: Do you still think there's an like where are we
Speaker 2: on the scale. Is there still an awful lot of
Speaker 2: progress we made?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's loads that needs to be done. Loads. How
Speaker 1: long we got yeah, right, half an hour?
Speaker 4: Regarding mental health, and that's a really big frustration in mine.
Speaker 4: I think that there's a lot of responsibility I think
Speaker 4: lies within management companies and record labels. It's a pretty
Speaker 4: destructive industry it can be. I mean, I remember my
Speaker 4: first tour. My best mate Yasmin's here somewhere, oh yeah,
Speaker 4: but we went out. She came out on tour with me.
Speaker 4: I was supporting Shakespeare's sister. Only one of them though,
Speaker 4: Shavn not the good one. And now I love our
Speaker 4: money to king. I'm only joking. What's the other one
Speaker 4: called Marcella? No, what's the one called Marcella? Yeah? At
Speaker 4: the time, I think I was twenty at the time,
Speaker 4: yas was I twenty twenty one, about ten years ago
Speaker 4: in it, and people thought that I was Marcella, and
Speaker 4: I was like, way.
Speaker 1: I'm twenty one years old.
Speaker 4: When I was still kind of flattered though, because it's
Speaker 4: a babe, but that I mean, I was just twenty one,
Speaker 4: first ever tour and it was just me and my
Speaker 4: piano at the time, and my mate yas carrying the
Speaker 4: piano and every night there was like my rider was
Speaker 4: just insane. It was like, you know, a bottler whiskey,
Speaker 4: a bottle of wine and a creative beer. That's not
Speaker 4: you should not be like you're the environment.
Speaker 1: That you're in.
Speaker 4: Alcohol is so present a lot at the time, and
Speaker 4: there's lots of things I've had to learn over the
Speaker 4: past three years of how to make it a much
Speaker 4: more healthier environment to exist in. Otherwise it's just not
Speaker 4: it's not it's not sustainable. And there's so many artists,
Speaker 4: some really sad stories recently of artists that have taken
Speaker 4: their own lives in the past.
Speaker 1: Year, and it's.
Speaker 4: Pretty scary the figures. And I think we need to
Speaker 4: get rid of this ridiculous myth, this romanticism of the
Speaker 4: tortured artist, you know. I mean, look at what happened
Speaker 4: to Amy Winehouse. A lot of this would have been avoidable,
Speaker 4: but we Amy Winehouse. It's one of the most heartbreaking
Speaker 4: stories to date because she was such a talent, and
Speaker 4: in fact I started out in jazz music playing with
Speaker 4: Amy years ago in London and it was one of
Speaker 4: the saddest days when she passed away, but everyone knew
Speaker 4: it was coming, and it didn't feel like anyone was
Speaker 4: doing anything about it. But I've been going on lots
Speaker 4: of panels and talking about mental health in the music
Speaker 4: industry and what can be done to improve it and
Speaker 4: to make it a healthier environment for artists to exist within.
Speaker 4: So at least the conversation starting now, So I think
Speaker 4: there is a bit of progress there, but there's, like
Speaker 4: you're saying, there's still a lot, a lot to be done.
Speaker 3: What do you think what are those kind of things?
Speaker 2: Because you've got to look after yourself, but you also
Speaker 2: need to kind of build a network around you. Presumably
Speaker 2: that's people like your friend Yas or anybody that's close
Speaker 2: that you know, you trust, because you can go out
Speaker 2: on the road for months and months at a time
Speaker 2: and it's it's it's it's fun, no doubt, but also
Speaker 2: quite grueling. So what are the things that you think
Speaker 2: you know? What would you your kind of recommendations be.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's important you mentioned Amy Winehouse there.
Speaker 2: Anybody's seen the kind of Amy Winehouse movie, documentary film
Speaker 2: will know that.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's you can point fingers at certain people that
Speaker 2: maybe it looked like it maybe kind of took advantage
Speaker 2: or didn't do anything the inactivity of those things. So
Speaker 2: what what are your kind of recommendations do you think?
Speaker 2: It's just like, make sure you're working with people who've got,
Speaker 2: you know that don't just purely have a business brain
Speaker 2: on them and thinking about checks that are coming in
Speaker 2: and actually thinking about your well being over that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think the biggest revelation for me, which made a
Speaker 4: lot of change, was when I was just very honest
Speaker 4: about because I also have a mental health illness.
Speaker 1: It was never diagnosed.
Speaker 4: It's been years and years and years of different different things.
Speaker 4: People have been saying, maybe you've got this, maybe you've
Speaker 4: got this, and it now looks like I have. Oh,
Speaker 4: it sounds really funny. What's it called again, borderline personality disorder,
Speaker 4: which I just you know, I find quite funny. But
Speaker 4: I find it actually it's a lot easier for me
Speaker 4: to discuss mental health when I inject a little bit
Speaker 4: of humor about it. I try not to be kind
Speaker 4: of too jovial about the subject because it's very serious,
Speaker 4: but it is a way for me to open the dialogue,
Speaker 4: especially when I'm talking to younger people.
Speaker 1: About mental health.
Speaker 4: As soon as I spoke to my management company about it,
Speaker 4: they implemented little things like maybe after a show, because
Speaker 4: adrenaline is quite a dangerous thing and it is quite destructive.
Speaker 4: After a show, I get this real adrenaline high and
Speaker 4: I'm working on now, You've got to let it kind
Speaker 4: of dispel. And I can't just be straight after a show.
Speaker 4: I can't go straight to a merch table. Got to
Speaker 4: have like about twenty minutes to just kind of come down,
Speaker 4: let it like settle slowly. Little things like that, so
Speaker 4: my management won't book in press straight after a show anymore.
Speaker 1: My touring team are all.
Speaker 4: Very aware of my mental health illness. And your touring
Speaker 4: team become like a little family.
Speaker 1: It's really nice.
Speaker 4: And my tour managers like me ma'am or me Dad,
Speaker 4: and my band are like my brothers or my sisters.
Speaker 1: You've got long tours and small vans. You've got to
Speaker 1: get on with them.
Speaker 4: And you can't hide anything on tour either, So there
Speaker 4: has to be this element of complete honesty. And I'm
Speaker 4: very unashamed and talking about my mental health illness, and
Speaker 4: I speak about it very publicly. I was very embarrassed
Speaker 4: about it. For a long time. But I'm finding now
Speaker 4: that if I speak out about it, that's encouraging other
Speaker 4: people to follow suit, which which is the first step
Speaker 4: to getting better and kind of curating a healthy environment
Speaker 4: to exist within. But just things like that, it has
Speaker 4: there has to be an open dialogue there from the start,
Speaker 4: which is yeah, a lot of it's up to yourself
Speaker 4: to do that. But as soon as anybody else in
Speaker 4: your touring party, or your management company or your record
Speaker 4: label see any of these signs, they need to intervene
Speaker 4: and have a conversation with you and allow you to
Speaker 4: have this conversation and be welcoming and understanding. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I think that's maybe the first step to it.
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, let's talk a bit about music. And
Speaker 2: you mentioned that you grew up listening to a lot
Speaker 2: of jazz.
Speaker 3: Was that what was at home?
Speaker 2: And like when did you was that like dad's record
Speaker 2: collection or where did where did like music ender your life?
Speaker 3: Na?
Speaker 5: Me?
Speaker 4: Dad used to listen to loads of Pakistani music, which
Speaker 4: I hated growing up, like really hated.
Speaker 3: Have you come around to that?
Speaker 1: I love it?
Speaker 4: Like I'm obsessed with my father's music yesterday was we
Speaker 4: call it Pakistani Christmas in my house.
Speaker 1: It was d so ed my Barrick and I did this.
Speaker 4: Radio show yesterday and I played loads of Pakistani music
Speaker 4: that my father played to me growing up that I
Speaker 4: used to hate. An artist called made Hussan. It was
Speaker 4: a guzzle singer and its just like insanely beautiful. It
Speaker 4: doesn't matter if you can't speak the language and you
Speaker 4: don't understand what's being said.
Speaker 1: It's just beautiful music. I urge you to go out
Speaker 1: and listen to some if.
Speaker 4: You let me DJ later on and then play them.
Speaker 4: There was a lot of that growing up in my house,
Speaker 4: but never I never embraced it. My mother, she got
Speaker 4: a pretty cool taste of music. Mom liketually she's pretty cool.
Speaker 4: Lots of like girl bands like the Shangri Las, the
Speaker 4: Charell's and the Crystals. Kind of grew up on that
Speaker 4: and I only really got into jazz music because I
Speaker 4: had this massive voice, and initially I was like me,
Speaker 4: man would put us in like a real stage. Mother
Speaker 4: put me in loads of like competitions, singing competitions, and
Speaker 4: my go to song was always Mariah Carey Hero. Now
Speaker 4: I hear there's a karaoke tent on site. And now
Speaker 4: there's a rule that if you're like a professional singer,
Speaker 4: you're not allowed to do karaoke. But I think you
Speaker 4: can bend that rule in that if you're a professional singer,
Speaker 4: you've got to do impersonations. So if you're there later on,
Speaker 4: am I either gonna day Mariah Carey Hero or Tina
Speaker 4: Dinner a private dancer. I think the latter is the
Speaker 4: is the crowd's choice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then.
Speaker 4: My mum gave me a gospel record and I joined
Speaker 4: a gospel choir and that was a really good place
Speaker 4: to use this massive voice that I had, which was great.
Speaker 4: And then from their jazz is and you know, it's
Speaker 4: only like down the road and around the corner. So
Speaker 4: then started making jazz music, not making, but singing jazz music.
Speaker 4: And that's how I started my kind of forry into music.
Speaker 2: I've heard you talk a lot about your mum and
Speaker 2: your dad over the years, and they sound great. But
Speaker 2: is it true that in a parallel universe somewhere you
Speaker 2: could have been the daughter of Scott Walker or Jimi Hendrix.
Speaker 1: I okay, I'm talked about that alright.
Speaker 4: So I look nothing like my mother. I'm not bigging
Speaker 4: myself up. But she is a total babe, like she's
Speaker 4: she's such everyone's Mammy's beautiful. She's a really beautiful woman,
Speaker 4: like inside out, she's a kind of I think she
Speaker 4: was taller than me when she was younger, like nearing
Speaker 4: on like near six foot when she was younger, because
Speaker 4: with the Scandinavian heritage, tall blonde beauty, and in South Shields,
Speaker 4: believe it or not, there used to be like a
Speaker 4: thrive in music scene and because it Chad's Chandler from
Speaker 4: the Animals, he was managing Jimmy Hendrix, and so loads
Speaker 4: of great bands used to go through South Shields and
Speaker 4: my mom would go to these shows, but you know,
Speaker 4: she didn't put out and loads of these like loads
Speaker 4: of these rock stars would chatter up and she was
Speaker 4: too shy. So my mom I could have been the
Speaker 4: daughter of Jimmy Hendrick. So Scott Walker chatted her up
Speaker 4: once as well, and she declined.
Speaker 1: I would have said, yes, I still I still would.
Speaker 3: Did he get to his show recently?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well I had this.
Speaker 4: I'm obsessed with Scott Walker, like I love Scott Walker.
Speaker 4: And I went to this show at the Royal Albertole
Speaker 4: recently and there was a bunch of different artists doing
Speaker 4: versions of his songs.
Speaker 1: I wasn't that enamored by the show. Actually, that's not
Speaker 1: very nice. No, it wasn't.
Speaker 4: I think one of the problems with that show was
Speaker 4: that Scott Walker wasn't. There was an interview with Scott
Speaker 4: Walker and Jarvis Cocker, and Javis Cocker had said to him,
Speaker 4: pry at the show, do you have any advice for
Speaker 4: us and what we should do at the show, and
Speaker 4: Scott Walker said, yeah, just make it new, because that's
Speaker 4: that's why we're inspired by Scott Walker. I mean, he's
Speaker 4: still putting loads of us, me and Happiers like to
Speaker 4: shame because he's making the most like essentially imagine like,
Speaker 4: what's that band One Direction? It's like that, right, The
Speaker 4: Walker brothers were like one Direction this boy band, and
Speaker 4: then Scott Walker is essentially Harry If Harry Styles went
Speaker 4: off and made the best, like weirdest album, that's Scott Walker.
Speaker 4: That's what he did, essentially, and just kind of I
Speaker 4: remember playing my mom some new Scott Walker.
Speaker 1: She was really surprised that I liked him. She was, well,
Speaker 1: less have a listen then, So I.
Speaker 4: Played an album called Tilt, which is proper experimental. She
Speaker 4: was terrified and she was really angered by it, like
Speaker 4: he doesn't sound very well, and I was like, no, Na,
Speaker 4: he's Mammy's fine. He's actually like one of the most
Speaker 4: innovative musicians in the world. Just like, well, I think
Speaker 4: it sounds like a racket, and I was like, well,
Speaker 4: I suppose so, but I kind of light it and
Speaker 4: uh yeah. So at the show afterwards, there was like
Speaker 4: a little bar down the road. There was like a
Speaker 4: bit of an aftershow type thing. No one knew Scott
Speaker 4: Walker would be there. And he comes in and I'm
Speaker 4: buying myself downstairs and he's in front of me, and
Speaker 4: I'm texting my mates upstairs going and my friend's screenshot
Speaker 4: it and put it on the internet, and I was
Speaker 4: really drunk.
Speaker 1: I can't remember writing.
Speaker 4: This, but I just wrote, Scott Walker is two meters
Speaker 4: away from me, please come downstairs, and then capital let
Speaker 4: us please help me. Because I knew I was gonna
Speaker 4: make a total ass of myself because whenever I meet
Speaker 4: a hero, I always look it up.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just went with the standard like I
Speaker 1: just got a walk, like you changed my life, and.
Speaker 4: He just went like the thanks very much, kid, Thanks
Speaker 4: very much and walked off and I was like, I
Speaker 4: didn't tell us the bugger off, So that so it's
Speaker 4: a plus because PJ Harvey did. Oh no, I once bumping,
Speaker 4: Can I carry on as I once bumping?
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 4: I was recording my second album and we're recording it
Speaker 4: in South London and I was near London Bridge somewhere
Speaker 4: on my way to the studio and I was listening
Speaker 4: to p J Harvey on the way to get RiPP
Speaker 4: her off.
Speaker 1: A bit and uh.
Speaker 4: On the way there, I saw it and I was like, wow,
Speaker 4: I don't know what to do, and so I'll just
Speaker 4: follow her. So she went into like a shop and
Speaker 4: I was like, waiting outside the shop.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna say this is gonna be,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be gonna best mates. And she came out.
Speaker 1: I didn't say anything. I froze.
Speaker 4: She went another shop. I thought, okay, I'm going to
Speaker 4: this time on them. I'm gonna get it. She's gonna
Speaker 4: get it.
Speaker 1: And she came out and I was like, didn't say anything.
Speaker 5: Ah.
Speaker 4: Then she went into a dry cleaners and she came
Speaker 4: out and the first thing I said, too, is just
Speaker 4: PG dry cleaning posh.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so PJ. Harvey thinks I'm really cool. Actually tomorrow,
Speaker 4: no tomorrow. Today we're playing I'm gonna plug the gig
Speaker 4: at the same time we're playing at half four on.
Speaker 1: Some stage, the garden stage.
Speaker 4: And my regular sax saxophonist, saxophonist, saxomophonist, saxophone.
Speaker 3: Ah, what a play?
Speaker 4: Yeah, my regular sax player. He has a prior engagement.
Speaker 4: But we've got Terry Edwards, who's PJ. Harvey's saxophone player.
Speaker 4: He's playing with us. I'm not having told him my
Speaker 4: PJRV story yet. Okay, I'm gonna save it from maybe
Speaker 4: on stage. Yeah no, no, I've done it.
Speaker 2: Now. You might get round too. It's on the stage.
Speaker 2: Hopefully you won't bump into her in like a white
Speaker 2: Trose or something.
Speaker 1: What she got on my train from Waterloo.
Speaker 4: We came here from Waterloo yesterday and my mate Yasmin,
Speaker 4: you getting a lot of shouts out, Oh, you're gonna
Speaker 4: get a shamed If I'm having it, you're having it.
Speaker 4: We were sat on the train waiting to come whereas
Speaker 4: at Salisbury Sallysbury, as Yasmin said, and we were sat
Speaker 4: on the train with our Genet's and that's not relevant.
Speaker 4: And and I sat there, and y'alls just goes, oh
Speaker 4: my god, that lady looks just like Patty Smith. And
Speaker 4: I looked at the window. I was like, you're Dumbo.
Speaker 4: It's PJ Harvy, just like Patty Smith. I was like, no,
Speaker 4: it's pg Rvy. And then I thought, right, she's on
Speaker 4: our train.
Speaker 1: She can't escape me. I'm I get there.
Speaker 2: So you're in the buffet car. She's picked up a
Speaker 2: nice looking sandwich.
Speaker 1: I just I just didn't know. I sat still. Actually
Speaker 1: I just fell asleep. I was naked.
Speaker 4: I think there's some fools and me like like that.
Speaker 1: But no, I haven't gotten any I'll get it.
Speaker 5: I get it.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Holiday Destination.
Speaker 2: This is the new album you just put out, and
Speaker 2: previous records of yours have often kind of you've written
Speaker 2: songs about yourself and your relationships, and this time around
Speaker 2: Holiday Destination, it's a record about the state of things
Speaker 2: the world. It's very you're looking outwards. Did you where
Speaker 2: did that moment come? That sort of transfer from writing
Speaker 2: more about kind of what comes from inside you and
Speaker 2: your kind of like private life to sort of looking
Speaker 2: out and being wanting to sort of comment on the
Speaker 2: world and the state of things.
Speaker 4: Honestly, I think it was a virtually impossible to write
Speaker 4: about anything else.
Speaker 1: My rubbish love life pales in comparison, you know.
Speaker 4: I think it's I also think it's like an artist's
Speaker 4: duty to document the.
Speaker 1: Times that we're living. My elder brother is a documentary maker.
Speaker 4: To check out some of his films, he's called Kareem Shaw,
Speaker 4: and so I'm really grateful to him. He's always opened
Speaker 4: my eyes to so many things happening in the world
Speaker 4: that aren't front page news. And he's he's a really
Speaker 4: brilliant man. I'm very, very very proud of him and
Speaker 4: what he does. And he was making a documentary for
Speaker 4: Al Jazeera and it was on the border of.
Speaker 1: Turkey and Siria.
Speaker 4: And this is I think it's five years ago or
Speaker 4: four years ago and up until the and it was
Speaker 4: in a place called Kills and he was in a
Speaker 4: refugee camp there and this documentary was about the effects
Speaker 4: that the civil war was having on children.
Speaker 1: And whenever there's a war or any.
Speaker 4: Any kind of dispute or anything in a country which
Speaker 4: is happening and to see the effect that it has
Speaker 4: on children, that they're completely innocent, and it's the most
Speaker 4: harrowing thing. And he was in a refugee camp making
Speaker 4: a film about the kids there, and I made the
Speaker 4: music for it. And that was the first time I
Speaker 4: knew about this civil war. And I was pretty ashamed
Speaker 4: that I didn't know about it. But actually I guess
Speaker 4: myself and a lot of us we can be forgiven
Speaker 4: because it wasn't front page news. And at that point
Speaker 4: I knew I had to write about it, and that
Speaker 4: was my brother's encouragement. I won't say what he said.
Speaker 4: My brother's encouragement, why don't you write some proper songs
Speaker 4: and cheers? Bro.
Speaker 1: I love him for it.
Speaker 4: Actually, You've always like if I get a bit a
Speaker 4: bit like too big for me, Booty always brings you
Speaker 4: back down to the ground again, and he reminds me
Speaker 4: of why I do what I do. He's my biggest inspiration,
Speaker 4: my brother, and so I kind of banked that I
Speaker 4: had to make something. I had to make something good,
Speaker 4: and and then it was front page news and they
Speaker 4: were just the most harrowing images. Every day they're just
Speaker 4: that they're just staining your mind. And they still haunt
Speaker 4: me every day and that Ah, it's a subject really close.
Speaker 3: To my heart.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3: It's okay, Ah, it's fine.
Speaker 2: I think, like I mean, anybody that hasn't checked out
Speaker 2: the collection of songs.
Speaker 3: Yet it is.
Speaker 2: It's it's a really deep and powerful, very personal piece
Speaker 2: of work. And I think that Nadan's just one of
Speaker 2: a collection of other artists, including other people that you've
Speaker 2: worked quite closely with, that have decided to kind of
Speaker 2: write songs about that kind of subject matter. We're talking
Speaker 2: about the you know, the the crisis in the immigration
Speaker 2: crisis in Southern Europe, and already just talked about there
Speaker 2: the Syrian kind of civil war. People like a borrow
Speaker 2: otherwise known as ghost poet, somebody you've collaborated with before.
Speaker 2: There are other it seems like a theme this year.
Speaker 2: I've kind of discovered so many brilliant artists that are
Speaker 2: that are the thanks.
Speaker 1: Oh, cheers, I've got a kleenex.
Speaker 2: He snuty knows for the record, somebody's just brought us
Speaker 2: another beer.
Speaker 4: Oh good job, it's not jin imagine what I be
Speaker 4: like on that on Mother's ruin.
Speaker 2: Just like this is quite a gen surroundings though, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It's like a Piers Morgan interview now, so we.
Speaker 3: Might go to an ad break. That's all right, he
Speaker 3: broke it, alright.
Speaker 4: I'm backing, I'm backing, I'm back in jees, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: What a softy I'm meant to be this tough goth.
Speaker 4: But yeah, that's why we made the album. You know,
Speaker 4: it's just robbly important and like you're saying you've got
Speaker 4: and actually it's lovely. Like I was pretty scared I
Speaker 4: make a political album originally because for a few reasons,
Speaker 4: like dividing an audience, because if they're ever going to
Speaker 4: have a political rhetoric present, not everyone's going to agree
Speaker 4: with you.
Speaker 1: But it's so nice to have my peers making music
Speaker 1: about the same subjects.
Speaker 4: So Maximo Park made a great album also about the
Speaker 4: current refugee crisis, especially Syria they were focusing on. But
Speaker 4: it's not just when we're talking about the refugee crisis,
Speaker 4: it's not just Siria. There's a trayer, Afghanistan, Sudan, so
Speaker 4: many countries and you know it's really sad to see
Speaker 4: it's awful. But now that it's not front page news
Speaker 4: every day, there was a point when I'd finished the
Speaker 4: record and I thought like, this is an awful like
Speaker 4: a fleeting awful thought to have. But I was like,
Speaker 4: you know what, if it all gets sorted, this album
Speaker 4: isn't going to be relevant. But actually, like, I would
Speaker 4: be the happiest person in the world if my album
Speaker 4: wasn't relevant and I had to go and write an
Speaker 4: album about my crap love life again. I really, honestly,
Speaker 4: hand on heart, I wish I never had I made
Speaker 4: this album, and I wish it wasn't relevant, But like
Speaker 4: the most the saddest thing, it's more relevant than ever
Speaker 4: because it's not front page news anymore, and there's still
Speaker 4: people without homes, there's still people making that treacherous, treacherous
Speaker 4: journey every day and dying in the sea, and so
Speaker 4: we have to keep talking about it, I know. And
Speaker 4: we all still need to show our support, and we
Speaker 4: all still need to keep donating our money or our
Speaker 4: time whatever we can do. So I'm sorry if I
Speaker 4: sound preachy, but I am kind of urging yours to
Speaker 4: go out and keep donating. There's some brilliant, brilliant charities.
Speaker 4: I'm working with one at the minute called Arda, and
Speaker 4: they provide medical care for children who have been injured
Speaker 4: in war and they've just got they've done some amazing work.
Speaker 1: Or help refugees, who are a.
Speaker 4: Huge organization that work in so many different sectors, doing.
Speaker 1: Great work every day. So we've got to keep doing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think now that you've switched modes in
Speaker 2: your songwriting so to speak, can you ever imagine going
Speaker 2: back to that style? Because there are always going to
Speaker 2: be things now, like you know, hopefully you'll be the
Speaker 2: kind of artists that will going to make ten twenty albums,
Speaker 2: like they are always going to be things to talk
Speaker 2: about within the world. Now that you've tried out that
Speaker 2: start a songwriting, do you feel like you're always going.
Speaker 3: To do that?
Speaker 4: No? Because I cry and interviews all the time. So
Speaker 4: the next one is a dance record. It's just pure gabba,
Speaker 4: and yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess, like, yeah, probably you can't put yourself in
Speaker 2: choosing two years time.
Speaker 4: I've nearly finished right in the next album, okay, And
Speaker 4: yeah there's subjects and that I'm talking a lot about
Speaker 4: gender politics and that a lot. But yeah, I don't
Speaker 4: know really, but I guess I'm because of what my
Speaker 4: brother said it's kind of really stuck with me, and
Speaker 4: I think I'm never really proud of work, but I've
Speaker 4: never felt so happy with them, or like satisfied is
Speaker 4: the right word with the piece of work that I've
Speaker 4: made other than this album actually, because I feel like
Speaker 4: it's I feel like it's kind of important.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've probably got about five minutes left. What we're
Speaker 3: gonna do.
Speaker 2: I've got maybe one more two more questions left in
Speaker 2: the Dean and then I'm going to ask if anybody
Speaker 2: else wants to ask a question. Super delighted that so
Speaker 2: many people have come, by the way, This is really great.
Speaker 2: We talked earlier about your taste in music and like
Speaker 2: music discovery. In this autumn, you're going on tour and
Speaker 2: you're going to take a punk band on tour with you,
Speaker 2: which I think is great because they're a band called
Speaker 2: Life from Hull. They're kind of there's a lot of
Speaker 2: fantastic politicized punk bands in the UK at the moment,
Speaker 2: artists that we've enjoyed this year, people like Idols from Bristol,
Speaker 2: Life from Hull Shame. They're playing either later today or tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Hear at end of the road you're going off on
Speaker 2: a UK tour, but you've decided to frighten your audience
Speaker 2: with a band that play heavy punk rock.
Speaker 1: Sorry. Well, I was talking to the lads in Life.
Speaker 1: They're becoming like me little brothers.
Speaker 4: I love them and I had said to them come
Speaker 4: and support me on tour and they were like, and
Speaker 4: I was like, no, no, you know what, the most
Speaker 4: punk rock thing you can do is not by playing
Speaker 4: with other punk bands. You know, don't play your regular audience.
Speaker 4: The most punk rock thing you can do is come
Speaker 4: and play with me. In fact, the most punk rock
Speaker 4: thing that could do was support. I don't want to
Speaker 4: slag off any artists.
Speaker 3: It's late for that.
Speaker 1: You haven't got me out the world ja yet.
Speaker 3: The regular listeners to the podcast.
Speaker 4: I won't say what I've been saying. I've been told
Speaker 4: off when them off. I'm only joke and actually like them.
Speaker 4: We just find it funny. They're really lovely people. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's what I was saying to Life. I was support
Speaker 4: support people that you never normally would if you want to,
Speaker 4: because otherwise you exist within an echo chamber and they
Speaker 4: have a political message and they have something to say,
Speaker 4: say it to everyone. Yeah, I find it funny. Saying
Speaker 4: we've got life support. They're really hard to google as well.
Speaker 4: The first time I heard them, I was like reviewing
Speaker 4: them on the round Table. That's Steve la Mackshaw and
Speaker 4: the song was called in Your Hands. So I just
Speaker 4: googled like life in your Hands and got loads of
Speaker 4: self help articles, which actually they were pretty pretty, very useful.
Speaker 3: I Ye, has anybody got anything they want to ask?
Speaker 3: The dean is it?
Speaker 1: Did I meet Jeremy Corbyn? I've got a story about that.
Speaker 4: No, I didn't meet him on that occasion, but I've
Speaker 4: met him in the past. I'm a member of the
Speaker 4: Labor Party. So if you hate them, but yeah, and
Speaker 4: I need you quit music. Yeah, there was a after
Speaker 4: was it during the last album or just after the
Speaker 4: last album? I kind of for a few weeks decided
Speaker 4: I was quitting music and I wanted to become an
Speaker 4: MP for sou Shields back home and U So I
Speaker 4: started in Turning in Westminster.
Speaker 1: So I went to a few different like.
Speaker 4: Labor Party parties and big drinkers and.
Speaker 1: I'm only joking, but the but they all are the old.
Speaker 4: But I met Jeremy Cobyn a few times and his
Speaker 4: wife as well, who's super inspiring. The work that she's
Speaker 4: doing in her home country is amazing. And I was
Speaker 4: at this one. It was like a charity, like a
Speaker 4: fundraiser for the Labor Party.
Speaker 1: I went to that.
Speaker 4: My dad has a curtain shop in the Northeast and
Speaker 4: it was in the Northeast, this kind of Labor Party party,
Speaker 4: and my dad had donated a pair of curtains or
Speaker 4: like whatever you want, like to have some curtains made
Speaker 4: was one of the prizes in the raffle. And Jeremy
Speaker 4: Corbyn's wife puts her hand up and bids on it,
Speaker 4: and Jeremy's like no no to her, like no, no, no,
Speaker 4: and she bids and she wins. So I think it's
Speaker 4: we still haven't given them. I've got to go to
Speaker 4: Jeremy's house next week and measure his windows. Oh, I'm
Speaker 4: going to embarrass myself.
Speaker 1: I get it with PJ. Are we with him now?
Speaker 4: Jeremy swags and tails bosh.
Speaker 2: I just want to kind of wrap things up by
Speaker 2: saying a massive thank you to Na Dean. She's going
Speaker 2: to be performing later on today on the Garden stage
Speaker 2: at half past four, so definitely go and check that out.
Speaker 2: That's all that's left for me to say a massive
Speaker 2: thank you to Na Dean and we hope you've enjoyed
Speaker 2: this episode, Thanks very much.
Speaker 5: Choice Ready.
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Speaker 2: For more information, visit Loud and Quiet dot com