1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Hey, this is standing and Samantha, I don't Stephane never 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: told your protection of I heart radio. And today we 3 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: are once again thrilled to be joined by the incomparable, amazing, 4 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: astounding Bridget Todd are too kind. I'm so happy to 5 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: be here with you. Even though I feel like sometimes 6 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: I hang out with y'all in times of rage, it 7 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: definitely feels like today. Yes, well, there's no one we 8 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: would rather hang out with in times of rage. I'll 9 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: kick that as a compliment. Is we want to commiserate 10 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: and being raged together, I feel like we get things done. 11 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not sure that's true, but I'm gonna 12 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: assume that in my head. Yes, And as listeners probably 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: know based on the title and description of this episode, 14 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: they are talking about abortion and the relation of abortion 15 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: to technology and row viewade and the devastating news we've 16 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: gotten recently. And you, Sint had an email, Bridget and 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: you're like, hi, um choosing the topic, and it was 18 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: just curious if you've already done a bunch of stuff 19 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: about this already, And to be honest, and I hope 20 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: that this doesn't like infuriate you, but I was like, 21 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: I hope Bridget's going to talk about this because you 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: have so much experience, and uh, again, I don't want 23 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: to put you in a box that will you ever 24 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: have to feel like you have to talk about these things. 25 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: But I was like, all, Bridget's gonna come on and 26 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: she's gonna have so much great information about this through 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: these dark times that will make it feel less dark. Yes, 28 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: I do not take that as an insult. You know, 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: I have worked most not the entire thing, but most 30 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: of my adult life in and adjacent to abortion access, 31 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: and yeah, so it's something that I really hold very dear, 32 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: and it's something that's been a big part of not 33 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: just my work, but also my my personal life. Um, 34 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: it's something that really permeates a lot of my other 35 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: social and political ideology and values. And so I'm not 36 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: offended at all. I I was like, I was like, 37 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: thank goodness, I've got a sminty book to talk about it. 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: But I know that both of you all are based 39 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: in Georgia, which is a state that is not particularly 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: hospitable to abortion care. So I feel like I have 41 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: to start by asking, you know, how, how are we 42 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: doing the loaded question? Yeah, and we want to circle 43 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: back and hear about how you're doing as well. Bridget 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: We just did a reaction episode hasn't come out yet, 45 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: but it'll come out soon about how we felt about 46 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: it when the day it happens, and it it was 47 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: pretty emotional. Um, I feel like I feel pretty sad 48 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: and angry and heartbroken and scared and like things feel 49 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: very uncertain. Um. And the day it was announced, I 50 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: had a bunch of friends happened to be coming in 51 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: from out of town to stay with me, and they're 52 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: all women, and uh, one of them is a nurse, 53 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: and we just like talked about it and everyone was 54 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: so scared. I think, yeah, scared was the main thing. 55 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: And angry, very angry, uh, but yeah, yeah, I mean, 56 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: it's just it's hard to It's like an emotion inside 57 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: me that's it just whirling around, and it feels like 58 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: almost always on the verge of a panic. Yes, that's 59 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: a good way to say, like it feels like the 60 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: end of the world for a certain extent of what 61 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: we're talking about and how we're seeing things in the future. 62 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: You know. Georgia has been one of those as of late, 63 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: being UM in the Purple State since with two of 64 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: our senators being Democrats, which is the first time in 65 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: history that we've been able to push that, and feeling 66 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: like everything is on the line right now because of 67 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: things like what is happening with the Supreme Court, UM, 68 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: with all of the different rulings that are happening. We're 69 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,799 Speaker 1: seeing how bad it's gotten and we had to push 70 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,559 Speaker 1: so hard to get to this point, but it felt 71 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: it feels almost like we had very little difference UM 72 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,559 Speaker 1: in the overall impact. And I know that's not true. 73 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: This is me being a little bit catastrophic about all 74 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: of this, uh, devastated in the moment and taking a 75 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: moment to be like, Okay, this is what it is 76 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: feeling like We've had to fight so hard. And I 77 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: know actually that's the first time I met you, Bridget, 78 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: you had actually said that to me about how you 79 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: had to work so hard to get to to C 80 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: d C, to get to where it was, and us 81 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: coming in here and being like, yeah, we get it. 82 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: This year has been this last few years has been 83 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: that for us to push so hard and seeing so 84 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: many good things happen and then coming to this moment 85 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: of like, oh god, we're back to square one. It 86 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: feels like and I know it's not true, because it's 87 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: it should be hopeful, but seeing all these things doesn't 88 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: always get you motivated, right, And it's one of those 89 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: things and seeing, Okay, we have Stacy Abrams and we 90 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: really do want to see her come through. And we've 91 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: already had one big disappointment and there's a lot of 92 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: contention in that election and we're coming back to round 93 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: two and we know that they've already kind of stacked 94 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: the cards and um, how this is going to play out, 95 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: But if we can you know, push through, maybe it 96 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: can happen. Um. Of course, the women of color, the 97 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: black women here have been fighting so hard and have 98 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: really pushed us to that victory. Being here and knowing 99 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: that the impact of what's happening in the Supreme Court 100 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: impacts what's happening to us so severely, Like there's so 101 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: many things that just feels overwhelming that the intersectionality of 102 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: all of the issues, it feels heavy. It feels so heavy. 103 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: Any and I are trying to find a way to 104 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: like focus on like, all right, we have to be active, 105 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: we have to move forward, We have to be advocates. 106 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: We can't sit in turmoil because we don't have that time. Yeah, 107 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: I plus plus plus to all of that, And I 108 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: think it can be hard, because you know, humans are 109 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: only meant to take so much. Right, It just seems 110 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: like I saw a tweet that was something to the 111 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: effect of, like the last few years have been getting 112 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: the worst news imaginable every day for several months, and 113 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: I guess that's how it has felt. And you know, 114 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: the day that we got the news about Row, it 115 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: was I'm not gonna lie like it was a tough day. 116 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: I physically got sick to I got sick like I 117 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: was not expecting it, like I I even though I 118 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: knew it was coming, and like it wasn't a surprise 119 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: to me. I was really surprised by how physically difficult 120 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: I took it. But I think you're exactly right that 121 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: it's it really takes constant reminders that whatever I have 122 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: to do to take care of myself so that I'm 123 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: in this for the long haul, I need to do so, 124 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: whether it's taking an afternoon to be like, you know, 125 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go for a walk, I'm not gonna check 126 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: the news, or I'm gonna do this, or I'm gonna 127 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: do that, do doing it in service of being able 128 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: to be here for the long haul because it's it's 129 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's a marathon, not a sprint, right. You know. 130 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: One of the things that I have a bad habit of, 131 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: and I'm so glad you're here, is that I take 132 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: face value to the worst news because at this point 133 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: I'm just ready and I'm like, yeah, obviously, obviously this 134 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: is gonna be the worst thing ever. And a lot 135 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: of this has been disinformation and me like, one of 136 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: the things that I thought with the trigger band was like, automatically, 137 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: all thirteen of those days are done, and that's not 138 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: actually true. And knowing that I have you as one 139 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: of my list of people with Ultra Violet, like, Okay, 140 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: they're gonna let me know, calm down, Samantha. You're just 141 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: get playing it up where it becomes hopeless. So thank 142 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: you for being here, and please talk me off this ledge. 143 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: I am happy to. And you know, as I said, 144 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: I've I've worked most of my life in or around 145 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: abortion access and protecting it and advocating for it. And 146 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: it's actually one of the reasons why I started my podcast. 147 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: There are no girls on the Internet. It's because I 148 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: started to see how when I was, you know, doing 149 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: that work. I wasn't really thinking about it necessarily as 150 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: a quote tech issue. I thought of it as a 151 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, feminist issue, a women's issue, a health issue, 152 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: adjustice issue, a human rights issue, all of those things. 153 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: But I didn't really have the analysis yet of it 154 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: being a technology issue. And so looking back, I really 155 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: wish I had really done the work in a way 156 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: that honored that reality. And you know, I feel like 157 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm kind of making up for lost time. But you know, 158 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: I started my podcast because I really saw a pervasive 159 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: attitude around conversations involving technology and the Internet that pushed 160 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 1: women and queer folks and non binary folks and transpeople 161 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: really out of a conversation and said that the conversation 162 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: is for white, heterosexual, cis gender men, and that attitude 163 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: really opened up these big gaps for exploitation and harm. 164 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: And in fact, we and by we, I mean like women, 165 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: queer folks, you know, people who are historically marginalized. We 166 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: are the ones who are definitely more likely to be 167 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: harmed by technology than straight white men. And so the 168 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: conversation around abortion, to me, really shows how technology can 169 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: really when we're not included in the conversation. We're not 170 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: thinking about it, we're not checked in with what's going 171 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: on around the internet and technology. It really opens up 172 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: these avenues per harm And I really wanted to talk 173 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: about some of the ways that abortion and technology are 174 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: now intersecting in this post Row world that we're finding 175 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: ourselves in. Yeah, yeah, because I feel like, um, a 176 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:37,599 Speaker 1: lot of the conversations I'm seeing now are about technology. Um, 177 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: they are about uh, the way our data is collected. 178 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: I know we're going to talk about that later, the 179 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: way we can access information or can't access information, and 180 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: if that information has even correct. And I know you've 181 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: been on here before and you've talked about, like, yes, 182 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: the power of misinformation and disinformation, and that has been 183 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: a huge thing when it comes to abortion and continues 184 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: to be. Oh yes. So we're seeing a flood of 185 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: inaccurate and misleading miss and disinformation about abortion, and truly, 186 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: as soon as the draft Scotus opinion leaked back in 187 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: May and Politico instantaneously we saw people using social media 188 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: to spread both miss and disinformation about abortion. Just a reminder, 189 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: misinformation is inaccurate information that's being spread the person doesn't 190 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: necessarily know it's inaccurate. They're not doing it on purpose, 191 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: maybe they think it's true. Disinformation is the purposeful spread 192 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: of inaccurate or misleading information to cause confusion or chaos 193 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: or fear. And so immediately people were saying kind of 194 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: like say, I'm kind of like what you were saying that, like, 195 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: this means that abortion is illegal starting now this very 196 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: same day. You know, if you had an appointment, that 197 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: appointment is now canceled because abortion is now illegal. And 198 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: that's that was not true. And I believe that, you know, 199 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: this is maybe being spread by by both anti abortion 200 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: extremists who are purposefully spreading medical disinformation basically to talk 201 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: people out of getting abortions. Um. And then that was 202 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: sort of out in the ether, and so people who 203 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: just like genuinely didn't know what was going on, who were, 204 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: you know, maybe feeling scared or anxious or confused. And 205 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: so obviously when you're in that state, you're just sharing 206 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: a lot of things and you're not necessarily thinking about it. Um, 207 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: we're then sort of seizing audit and sharing it too. 208 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: But it truly goes to show the deep, deep importance 209 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: of our social media platforms being places where folks have 210 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: access to reliable and consistent, consistently accurate, timely information to 211 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: make decisions about their health. Because if you you know, 212 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: if you log onto Twitter, you know, that's a place 213 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: where I get my news, It's where I get local information. 214 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: It's like where I found my local COVID testing places 215 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: when I was getting tested regularly and all of that. 216 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: If I log on to Twitter and it's just a 217 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: flood of information that is just flat out not accurate, 218 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: and I'm using that to bait to make decisions about 219 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: my health, as I've done in the past on Twitter. Uh, 220 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: that's a problem. And so I think it really it 221 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: really demonstrated, uh, the need to have our platforms. If 222 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: you plays were accurate, content is really easily accessible. One 223 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: of the most infuriating things that we saw in the 224 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: wake of this reversal Rovie Wade, his um people who 225 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: were trying to redirect the conversation and who were trying 226 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: to say that it was strange. It was like the 227 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: most strange gas lighting I've ever seen, because they were 228 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: trying to celebrate, but they also were like, but it's 229 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: not banned, though you're reacting and you're being like violent 230 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: and two months. I mean, honestly, one of the big 231 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: conversations in which is why I was bringing up the election, 232 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: is right now we do have our senency and the 233 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: biggest debate on there is about abortion right now. Anytime 234 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: might say anything about uh, any of the elections, and 235 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: the misinformation slash disinformation that is on that feet alone 236 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: is amazing. And I'm trying to figure out, Okay, I've 237 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: heard these narratives for so long and it's come back 238 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: and people are truly pushing this is unreal. Yeah, I 239 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: mean it when when so I know exactly what you're 240 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: talking about. I've definitely seen it, and I think it 241 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: really goes to show when inaccurate or misleading information when 242 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: it taps into something that is like a base dark 243 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: thing inside of us. And I say us as I humans, 244 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: because I'm definitely susceptible to it. I have definitely been, 245 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: definitely have that that that thing in me triggered. It 246 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: really catches on, right, And so I see content all 247 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: the time that is clearly meant. It's like it's like 248 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: it's written for me. I'm like, oh, well, that hit 249 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: that stokes all my you know, deeply personal individualistic fears 250 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: and anxieties. Clearly, this was so for me. Whenever I 251 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: feel that, I know that it's it's my signal to 252 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: like take a beat and like don't just give into it. 253 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, inaccurate or misleading information that that speaks to 254 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: these things inside of us can be so effective. They're 255 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 1: so sticky because bad actors and disinformers and people who 256 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: want to use lies to inflame and divide there they 257 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: know what they're doing. They're so good at it. Yeah, 258 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: and you talked about that when you talked about the 259 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: influence of anti abortion people at the insurrection, uh and 260 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: the influence they had, and then you gave the you know, 261 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: like we have document documentation that it's actually the anti 262 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: abortion people who are the violent ones historically. Yes. Absolutely, 263 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: I am so glad that you brought that up. So 264 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: in the wake of the leaked opinion about Row and 265 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of Row being overturned, so many anti 266 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: I call them anti abortion extremis because are out of 267 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: step with the majority of Americans. And I'll probably say 268 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: that a hundred more times during this episode. But um, 269 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: as soon as that went down, they were saying, like, oh, 270 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, the real conversation is whoever leaked this draft, 271 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: or the real conversation should be about the fact that 272 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: somebody wrote in shock outside of a Supreme Court justice's house, 273 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: like things like that, And the real conversation we should 274 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: be having is, you know, abortion advocates vandalizing buildings or YadA, YadA, YadA, 275 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: And that is just an attempt to shift the conversation 276 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: to distract us, because the reality is anti choice extremists 277 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: are trying to block abortion access, something that eight of 278 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: the country is fine with, supportive of, and so if 279 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: they were to have that conversation about the reality of 280 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: what they're doing, it would make them look terrible because 281 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: it's incredibly unpopular and they know this, and so they 282 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: needed the conversation to be about anything else other than 283 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: the reality of what they're doing. They need the conversation 284 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: to be about who was the leaker? Who could it be? 285 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: It's so horrible, the unprecedented nature all of that. They 286 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: need the conversation to be about violence on behalf of 287 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: people who are supportive of abortion, when the reality, you know, 288 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: here in in the real world, we know that anti 289 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: abortion extremists, they're the ones who have perpetrated violence against 290 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: abortion providers and always have. I mean, it's one of 291 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: those things where it's like, if you think about it 292 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: for a second, you already know this. You don't need 293 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: me to tell you this, Right, It's why we have 294 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: clinic escorts that wouldn't exist if that wasn't the case. Right, 295 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: And so they really want to flip the narrative, and 296 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: it's just not true. In the wake of the conversations 297 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: around Row, we saw anti abortion extremists really trying to 298 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: own the conversation by repeating this inaccurate, misleading narrative. Um 299 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: when we know that anti choice extremists have used violence, 300 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: including the murder of Dr George Tiller, who was murdered 301 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: while he was in church has place of worship back 302 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine. Right, And so it's actually getting worse. 303 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: According to a new report from National Abortion Freedom, abortion 304 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: providers in the US, Canada, and Colombia have based significant 305 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: increases of violence and disruptions to their work in the 306 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: last year compared to the previous year, including stalking, invasions, 307 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: assault and battery. Uh. And so, yeah, it's this idea 308 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: that we are facing a wave of violence from people 309 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: who are advocates of abortion and their allies, that's just 310 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: not true. If the reality is what we have already known, 311 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: is that it's anti abortion extremists who are using violence 312 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: to express themselves and not the other way around, right. 313 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because I just read a Twitter 314 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: thread where this woman was talking about her experience in 315 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: having to get an abortion, which was medically necessary, even 316 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: though this was a planned pregnancy. She really wanted to 317 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: have a baby and was expecting to carry it the 318 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 1: full term, but everything went wrong she had to get 319 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: an abortion. It was pre like it was during a 320 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: time where it was really a look down upon and 321 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: frowned upon, and she had to travel to actually go 322 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: to Dr Tiller and how she was She was talking 323 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: about the fact that she had to visit him and 324 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: when he came out, he had to have a gun 325 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: on him because he had already been threatened. It was 326 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: an interesting thread her talking so uh deeply about this 327 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: personal experience and why she did it and having to 328 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: go and travel to him to get this done. And 329 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 1: then at the end, you know, she goes into them 330 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: to say that this was the same doctor that got 331 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: killed at the church. The amount of comments from anti 332 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: abortion people completely skipped the entirety of the fact that 333 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: that someone was murdered for doing this service and went 334 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: to yeah, but this story is not true, because why 335 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: would you have to go out of state? This story 336 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: is not like just picking apart her story rather than 337 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: seeing them and and it was just like, wow, this 338 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: is the way they are reaching to take apart the 339 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: violence of that is happening and what has happened and 340 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: the true loss of life to this is such a 341 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: mental gymnastics, but it's working. That's the part that people 342 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: people fed on this. You're absolutely right that story is 343 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: heartbreaking and infuriating, but it is not surprising. And I 344 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: think part of why stories like that are able to 345 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: take off so much and have that stickiness or people 346 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: like feel like it's okay to tear her story apart 347 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: and all of that, I think, you know, I talk 348 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: a lot about how misleading narratives around things like abortion 349 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: fester on social media, but I think that these things 350 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: have been there since way before social media was ever 351 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: a thing. Like think about the ways that mainstream media 352 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: like news outlets and newspapers have done a lot of 353 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: the work of anti choice extremists for them by spending 354 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: decades framing abortion as this quote controversial issue, when the 355 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: reality is eight percent of Americans support abortion access. There 356 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: is not a place in the United States, even in 357 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: the deepest of red states, where the majority of people 358 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: there are against abortion access. And so all these stories 359 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: that we've that we saw, all these news stories that 360 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: framed it as this controversial issue where there's two sides, 361 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: We've gotta like hear both sides and all of that 362 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 1: when leaving out the plain honest truth that Americans are 363 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: not divided on abortion care. It's actually something that we are, 364 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: really the majority are united on. You know. It's like 365 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: there's not many things where I was in America where 366 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: of people like it other than like, I don't know, 367 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: maybe Tom Hanks or like, you know, I'm I'm struggling 368 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: to think of others, right, So, like, there's not that 369 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: many things but abortion care and the importance of protecting 370 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: abortion access as one of them, and yet we still 371 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: see media treating it as it's as this controversial issue. 372 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: Where is the controversy America has its mind made up 373 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: and its anti choice extremists who are pushing through abortion 374 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: bands and making it harder for people to access abortions 375 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: against the wishes of of the of a majority, a 376 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: clear majority of the American public. Yes. Uh, and I'm 377 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up because, as we've discussed 378 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: multiple times, I grew up in a very small conservative town. Uh. 379 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: When I first started on the show, one of the 380 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: very first episodes of two thousand and ten we did 381 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: was like politics Free abortion episode, and it was a 382 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: it made news in our office like, oh, they're talking 383 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: about abortion, Like, oh my god, it's gonna be so controversial. 384 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: And I always thought it was super controversial because this 385 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: is the story I've been fed. And so when I 386 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: heard like, oh yeah, people are on it, I was shocked, 387 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: Like that shocked me. And that's how effective this has 388 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: been that I was so surprised, and like, I know, 389 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a silver lining at the end, promised listeners. 390 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: But one of the silver linings that's come out of 391 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: this mess for me has been like, oh my gosh, 392 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: look at all these people that agree with me. And 393 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: I thought it was such a controversial thing. Oh but 394 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: I could go into a whole thing about high school 395 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: debate team the abortion argument, but people get so inflamed 396 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: about it. Oh my gosh, speaking of social media, while 397 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: the media has done this great job of already feeding 398 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: as this narrative that abortion is very controversial, social media 399 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: like inflamed it. Right absolutely so, as I said, these 400 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: incorrect narratives and misleading narratives about abortion, how Americans feel 401 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: about them, who has them, how you can access them, 402 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: lies about all of those things did not start with 403 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: social media, but social media really allows them to spread 404 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,239 Speaker 1: quickly and become legitimized, right, And so I believe that 405 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: platforms need to be doing a lot more to fix 406 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: that right now, platforms do not treat lies about abortion 407 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: as a medical misinformation the way that they would are, 408 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, for inactiveate information about COVID or vaccines. And 409 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: I think it's because we have a harder time when 410 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: I mean, this is just my as someone who studies 411 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: disinformation and works on the internet, this is just like 412 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: my opinion. I think that when there is an identity 413 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: issue layered into miss or disinformation, it becomes harder to 414 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: talk about clearly. And so if you're like, oh, uh, 415 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: vaccines are safe or some fact based thing about COVID, 416 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: people are like, yep, that is you know, that's that's fine. 417 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: If you lie about those things. I think most people, 418 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: you know, most reasonable people are like, oh, that's medical misinformation. 419 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: When you layer on on a clear identity issue, like 420 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, everybody should have access to gender affirming healthcare, 421 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: that's Those are the things that I think that it 422 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: is harder to see as the as the medical misinformation 423 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: it really is. And so we treat lies about COVID 424 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: and vaccines and things like that as clearly medical misinformation. 425 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: We treat lies about trans folks, queer folks, women, uh, 426 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: and our care as something else. I would argue that 427 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: both are forms of medical misinformation, and further both our 428 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: threats to our public health. Yes, and so far it 429 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: seems like social media and the people the powers that 430 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: be behind them do not agree with you, or at 431 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: least they're not taking action about that, right right as 432 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: in fact, I've just recently I read an article saying 433 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: that they've found out that Facebook, Meta and Instagram we're 434 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: slowly just taking off actual information anything that mentions like 435 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: Plan B or the abortion pill. Right, yes, yes, yes, 436 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: so right now. Social media platforms are basically, I would argue, 437 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: enabling and profiting from the subread of both organic and 438 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: paid content that promote dangerous medical disinformation and misinformation around 439 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: things like the abortion pill, even though this medication has 440 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: a very long track record of scientific study and safety. UH. 441 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: Quick side note. With my work at ultra Violet, working 442 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: with our coalition called the Women's Disinformation Defense Project, ultra 443 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: Violet and other organizations met with social media platforms to 444 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: flag clear, specific examples of really dangerous lies about abortion 445 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: on their platform. We did this last month right after 446 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: the elite opinion around Row came out, because we knew 447 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: we were gonna need to, you know, bring this to 448 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: their attention, and when we did, they quickly acted to 449 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: take those those lies about abortion down because they agreed 450 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: that it was important for platforms to be a place 451 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 1: where oh wait, no, just kidding, just kidding, they did 452 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: nothing those they didn't do anything, and so they had 453 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: They can't say, oh, we didn't know, because we sat 454 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: there and showed them. They We can't they can't say, oh, 455 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: we didn't have time. We're working on it, because we 456 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: showed them a month ago. And so it just goes 457 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: to show how I don't know. I just want platforms 458 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: to do better. I think that we should be able 459 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: to deserve better. I think that you know these platforms, 460 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: they have so much money, they have so many resources, 461 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: and they still can't get it right. And we've also 462 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: seen really horrible medical misinformation about this process that they 463 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: call quote abortion reversal and putting scare quotes around that, 464 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: which is this idea that pill based abortion can be reversed, 465 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: which is total nonsense, not grounded in science. Platforms have 466 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: allowed both organic and paid promotion of potentially life threatening 467 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: claims about this dangerous and medically unproven procedure, even while 468 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: the American College of Obstrictics and Gynecology, which publishes practice 469 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: guidelines for O B G y N care, including abortion, 470 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: does not recommend the practice, stating that quote claims of 471 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: medication abortion reversal are not supported by the body of 472 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: scientific evidence, and this approach is not recommend it in 473 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,719 Speaker 1: a c o G Clinical Guidance on medication abortion. As 474 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: shown by the failed study, this approach is not safe, 475 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: not non effective, nor is it based in medical evidence. 476 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: Yet platforms allow dangerous, inaccurate content that you know around 477 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: abortion reversal, saying like, oh, if you took an abortion pill, 478 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: there's a process where you can reverse it, even though 479 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: it's not true, and so stuff like that can really 480 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: be life threatening, and yet platforms are allowing it on 481 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: on their on their platforms and making money from it. Wow, 482 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: because that's kind of along the same lines of like 483 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: trying to get activists and we're like, you know, we're 484 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: you're well intended, but stop using hangars as a symbol 485 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: because there is a safe access and then having that 486 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: on top of the reversal, Oh my god, the level 487 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: of misinformation for young people out there trying to figure 488 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: out what is an option. Ah, we're gonna it's gonna 489 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: kill people. Yeah, it's I mean, you really said it. 490 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: I really see this as an issue where so many 491 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: things are layered on. So like there's the misinformation, there's 492 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: also like people who are like I think, genuinely like 493 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: very well meaning, sort of perpetuating I guess, I mean, 494 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: I don't want to It's a hard conversation, Like I 495 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: don't want to shame anybody for like using the wrong language. 496 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: And I think if you're in the fight, that's great. 497 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: Even if you got to the fight late, that's great. 498 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: We need you. And so you know, I don't want 499 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: to shame anybody for like not starting their journey of 500 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: activism around this issue knowing the exact right messaging and 501 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: the exact right framing and the things to say, the 502 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: things to not say, what's helpful, because I certainly didn't 503 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: know those things. Like I was looking at my Facebook 504 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh yeah, back in the day, 505 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: like two thousand ten, code hanger imagery was all over 506 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: my Facebook about was being very helpful. I didn't know 507 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: any better. And so I don't want to shame anybody 508 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: who doesn't necessarily know the right thing. But yeah, I 509 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: think it's one of those things where we have so 510 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,479 Speaker 1: much catching up to do as a movement and there 511 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: are so many intersecting things against us that it can 512 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: sometimes be like, wow, we are really we're really not 513 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: in a great place. I feel sometimes, right, and you know, 514 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: I'm completely with you, but like, honestly, I didn't in 515 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: two thousand ten and shoot until like last year, knowing 516 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: about the abortion pill, I'm like, oh, oh wow, Okay, 517 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: this is a whole different level of understanding of what 518 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: this is and that there is a safe access and 519 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: we need to make sure that we talk about it, 520 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: because yes, there's so many bad things. We don't want 521 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: to go back to the old way. We don't have 522 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: to cross your fingers in our so that we can 523 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: do the new access Like there's so many, um rebellious. 524 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: I love it people out there who are helping get 525 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: access to abortion through these abortion pills and how much 526 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: safer it is, and we need to remind people of that. 527 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: But you know, also on top of all of this, 528 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: what I'm thinking when it comes to anything with social 529 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: media in general, I feel like the conspiracy and I 530 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: don't think it's a conspiracy overall that we've already seen 531 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: and talked about how just regular marginalized content creators are 532 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: being shadow band I feel like it's a prep up 533 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: to this. Am I just being you know, out there, 534 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: you are not being out there in the least Sam. 535 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: And it's one of those things where it feels like, 536 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: when you talk about this, it feels like conspiracy theory, 537 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: but it's not. And so platforms are definitely absolutely limiting 538 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: what people can say about abortion and abortion pills. Um 539 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: they are. People are having statements about abortion pills taken 540 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: off of platforms like Facebook. Vice actually did some really 541 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: interesting reporting into this. So on Friday, Vices Tech vertical motherboard, 542 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: one of their reporters attempted to post a phrase abortion 543 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: pills can be mailed on Facebook using a burner account. 544 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: The post was flagged within seconds as violating the site's 545 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: community standards, specifically the rules around buying, selling, or exchanging 546 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: medical and non medical drugs. The reporter was given the 547 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: option to disagree with the decision or agree with it. 548 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: After they chose disagree, the post was removed. Um they 549 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: were able to post phrases like pain killers can be 550 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: can be mailed, pills and quote abortion without issue. Motherboard 551 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: then posted abortion pills can be mailed a second time 552 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: and it was flagged for removal, and this time the 553 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: reporter agreed with the decision. And so something I know 554 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: about Facebook's uh, content policies. They say, oh, we remove 555 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: anything that's illegal, But the phrase abortion pills can be 556 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: can be mailed that's not. That's just like a fact, 557 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: that's not you know, an admission of illegal behavior. And 558 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: so it really goes to show the complete failure of 559 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: content moderation policies that platforms are using. You know, we've 560 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: been sounding in the alarm way before this decision about 561 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: the fact that that platforms are going to become hotbeds 562 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: of life threatening misinformation and just that their their their 563 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: moderation policies aren't don't work, they're not transparent, they're not consistent. 564 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: People don't know how they work, and they're not able 565 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: to tell us with any kind of transparency how they work. 566 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: And so again I think, really this moment shows how 567 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: badly platforms have failed us and how little they're working 568 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: to to correct the problem. Right, And it feels just 569 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: extremely hypocritical when they're like, oh, we're a platform or technology, 570 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,479 Speaker 1: we don't take size, but you can't post that that 571 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: thing you no. Right. One of the things my friends 572 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: and I've seen a lot of conversation about is, you know, 573 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: people keep saying we're back to before Roe v. Wade, 574 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: but it's different now because we have all of this 575 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: technology and people are worried about oh, social media, can 576 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: they use that? But also um like period tracker apps. 577 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: I know I've been a big part of this conversation 578 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: and fear totally. So I'm so glad that you brought 579 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: that up. As Sam was saying, you know, in two 580 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: the conversation around abortion care is not you know, quote 581 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: back alley abortions and quote hanger imagery and all of that. 582 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: I understand why people are using that, and again like 583 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: I get it, but the conversation because because of the 584 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: availability of things like abortion, pill based abortion and self 585 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: managed abortion is really not around that kind that kind 586 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: of access like finger as you said, fingers crossed, I 587 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: don't think we're gonna go back to a place where 588 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: we have to resort to that. And and pill based 589 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: abortion is very safe. The new frontier, it's definitely surveillance 590 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: and criminalization of people who need abortions, are looking into abortions, 591 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: people who are pregnant and aren't having aren't planning on 592 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: having an abortion but maybe a miscarry, and people who 593 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: are aiding others and getting abortion. And so you know, 594 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: the last time that abortion was illegal in the seventies, 595 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: you know, before Roe v. Wade was the law of 596 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: the land, we did not have this vast digital network 597 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: of surveillance that we have today. We didn't all carry 598 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: GPS devices in our pocket or leave digital paper trails 599 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: of everything we've ever googled ever, you know, for someone 600 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: to look at. We didn't have platforms that would then 601 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: share that information with all manner of third parties, including 602 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: law enforcement. Uh, you know, I want to say, like 603 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: on the on the period tracker thing. The very popular 604 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: period tracking app Flow faced a lawsuit last year app 605 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: for sharing people's personal information, including quote intimate details about 606 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: sexual health and menstrual cycles, with third parties like Facebook 607 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: and Google, despite public assurances that they would not do that, 608 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: and according to this lawsuit, they did that because they 609 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: know that data is quote vital to their business. And 610 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: so I think all of those questions I understand why 611 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: in the wake of this decision, those were the cut 612 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: questions that were like flooding social media. And when you 613 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: add in laws like the one in Texas that deputized 614 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: ordinary citizens to turn anyone that they suspect of having 615 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,959 Speaker 1: an abortion or aiding at a betting and an abortion, uh, 616 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: turn them in for a ten thousand dollar reward slash bounty. 617 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: You can really see the scope of what we're facing 618 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: in terms of surveillance and criminalization and so um a lot. 619 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: You know, if someone's listening and they're like, well, should 620 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: I delete my period tracker, or like, how can I 621 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: stay safe digitally in a post real world. I am 622 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: not a lawyer. I this is not legal advice, so like, 623 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: do not take this as legal advice, but I it 624 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: speak to computer scientists and social media expert Dr Jim Goldbeck, 625 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: who is currently making a series on TikTok to educate 626 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: people who might need abortions on how to access them 627 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 1: more securely. If you want to hear the whole interview 628 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: which just came out, you can listen to the most 629 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: recent episode of my own podcast, There are No Girls 630 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: on the Internet. But here is a good summary which 631 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to play and it's going to work and 632 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,479 Speaker 1: it's going to be fine to give you a sense 633 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: of some of the steps you can take to keep 634 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: yourself secure. So you know, you've mentioned a couple of 635 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: like really great tips for folks if you're if you're 636 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: you know it, looking for abortion pills and you want 637 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: to do it, you know in a way that you're 638 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: going to be less likely to be tracked, you know, 639 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: using a tour browser, using incognito mode, when you search 640 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: um using public WiFi. Are there other tips that you 641 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: want to shout out for folks if you if they 642 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: if they might need this information. So, so that's all 643 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: important stuff, I would say for sure. The most important 644 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: one is that you are not paying with a credit 645 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: card or a debit card connected to your name, So 646 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: figure out how much your medication is going to cost. 647 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: Use cash by like a Visa Vanilla gift card, which 648 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: you can get anywhere for that amount, and then pay 649 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: with the Visa Vanilla gift card. UM. So much of 650 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: how we're tracked is through credit card number. UM, so 651 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: definitely do that. And the other way that we're really 652 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 1: easily tracked is through email address. So set up a 653 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: fresh email address that you are only using to buy 654 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,479 Speaker 1: this abortion medication. UM. Proton mail is the one site 655 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: that I recommended for this. It's free, it's encrypted, it's 656 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: really good and secure. UM. You can just set up 657 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: email address, use it to buyer medicine, don't use it 658 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: for anything else. If you do that, gift card, fresh 659 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: email address on something like proton mail. You know, I 660 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: love Gmail, I use it right, but they track the 661 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: hell out of you on Gmail. So protion mail, email address, 662 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: Vanilla gift card. UM, you get eight of the protection 663 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: from tracking just from those two measures. So UM, you 664 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: know that's easy and accessible to anybody. Definitely do that. Yes, 665 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: that is such great and helpful information, and I know 666 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people are looking for it right now, 667 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: so definitely, listeners go check out that episode if you 668 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: have in our ready and you know not to we're 669 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: gonna We're about to wrap up here. But it's kind 670 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: of frustrated to me because I was talking to my 671 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: friends about this and they're like, do you know anybody 672 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: who has a regular period? No? No, I don't, okay, uh, 673 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: But we did promise the silver lining. Yes, yes. So 674 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: as dark as all of that was, it is not 675 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: all terrible news, and I know this is a lot, 676 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: but the good news is that abortion advocates and providers 677 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: have been in this fight for such a long time, 678 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: and I've been spending the better part of a decade 679 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: preparing for this very moment, and so they knew what 680 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: was coming. They are prepared. They have abortion networks, abortion funds, 681 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: legal experts, bail funds, protesters, actions, rallies, all at the already, 682 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: and so I know that there was a moment, at 683 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: least for me, where it can feel very like overwhelming, 684 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: like what's to be done? There are so many different 685 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: things and resources that have been being strengthened for the 686 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: last ten years that you could tap into, listeners at 687 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: home could tap into. And I think that's one of 688 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: the things that gives me so much faith and makes 689 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: me feel a little bit better is that this space 690 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: is full of dynamic, brilliant people who care. And it's 691 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: like the smartest chick from your college, right, the coolest 692 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: person in your dorm. People like that, people who you 693 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: can look to, the person in your life or in 694 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: your community who is the loudest, proudest, most bold advocate. 695 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: They're on our side, not the other way around. And 696 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 1: guess what, it's of us. There are more of us 697 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: and there are of them, and we will outlast them. 698 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: And so as sed up as all of this is, 699 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: don't lose hope. Because there are more of us and 700 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: there are of them. We are and we're not going anywhere. 701 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: I'm a clap. Yeah that deserves plaus Yeah. I mean 702 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: I literally right before we got on this call was 703 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: at a like I just ran it in from a 704 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: action outside of the Spreme Court where people were being 705 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: like I think a hundred and fifty people were arrested 706 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: outside of the Supreme Court because they refused to move, 707 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: and so it was folks like I just look into 708 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:01,919 Speaker 1: the crowd and I was like, oh yeah, her, she's 709 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: a tech expert. Oh yeah, that's busy. Phillips she's a celebrity. 710 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah her. Like it was like I was going 711 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: down the line and it was just like damn, Like, 712 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: we are strong and mighty and we're not going anywhere. 713 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: We will not be moved. We're not going back, we 714 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: will not back down. We'll see you mother on the street. Right. 715 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. That was indeed the 716 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: silver lining we needed. And yeah, I think it's important 717 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: to remember the work people have been doing and to 718 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: respect that and then to continue that. Yes, do you 719 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 1: have any resources you would like to shout out? Absolutely? 720 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,879 Speaker 1: The one that I always shout out is abortion Funds 721 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: dot org. You can find a local abortion fund in 722 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,439 Speaker 1: your community. If you've got money, you can give the money. 723 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 1: There other ways to can donate your time, but that's 724 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: the one. I really I think that in this in 725 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: this time right now, giving money to local organizations is 726 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: really the key. I love Planned Parenthood. I used to 727 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: work there. They have plenty of money. If if your 728 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: your daughter will go like, no shade to them. I 729 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: love their work, but your dough will go so much further. 730 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: It's smaller local abortion funds, So definitely check out abortion 731 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 1: Funds dot org and find out if you've got. If 732 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: you've got a little coin to spend, I would spend 733 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: it there. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us, 734 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: for talking about this, for all the work that you've 735 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: done because we were like I hope Bridget will help 736 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: us through this, remind us with a great information um 737 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: and you did so. Thank you, thank you, thank you, 738 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: and yes, listeners, check out where Bridget. You can find 739 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: Bridget other places, including her podcast. You want to tell 740 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: the listeners everywhere they can find you. Yeah, you check 741 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 1: out my podcast. There are no girls on the internet. 742 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at Bridget Marie or 743 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Bridget Marie in d C. Yes, and 744 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: and please go do that listeners if you have not already, 745 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: and you can email us if you would like our 746 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: email Stephanie Mom Stuff that I Hurt Me dot com. 747 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at Stuff podcast or 748 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: on Instagram and Stuff I never told you. Thanks it's 749 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, and 750 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I never told you. 751 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: Stection of Heart Radio for more podcast in my Heart Radio, 752 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: but idia heard you app Apple podcast or wherever you 753 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H.