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Speaker 2: welcome to hoops tonight here at the Volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody.
Speaker 2: Hope all of you guys are having an incredible week.
Speaker 2: I have a very special guest coming on the show today,
Speaker 2: someone that, especially early on when I really wanted to
Speaker 2: get into this industry, someone that I looked up to,
Speaker 2: someone that I respected a great deal, and most importantly,
Speaker 2: one of the smartest basketball minds that I know, someone
Speaker 2: that I lean on a lot when I'm picking people's
Speaker 2: brains around the NBA. Mister Sam's Fondiari, co host of
Speaker 2: the Light Years podcast, covers the Warriors. Him and Andy
Speaker 2: do an amazing job covering the Warriors on a daily basis.
Speaker 2: We're gonna have him in today to break down everything
Speaker 2: from this incredibly bizarre first third of the season. So, Sam,
Speaker 2: this is where I want to start today. So last night,
Speaker 2: obviously the story was the young guys. Tray Jackson Davis,
Speaker 2: Jonathanmane got thought, Moses mood he played really well. Pozamski
Speaker 2: before he got hurt, was playing really well as well.
Speaker 2: And we can look in the bigger picture and see
Speaker 2: some clear data that demonstrates that's the direction that the
Speaker 2: Warriors have needed to go for a while. If we
Speaker 2: look at, according to Cleaning the Glass, the best plus
Speaker 2: minus guys on the Warriors Trayce Jackson Davis, the Warriors
Speaker 2: are twenty two points better with him, Pozamski nine points better,
Speaker 2: CP three eight points better, Gary Payton six points better,
Speaker 2: another young athlete, Jonathan Kamen, six points better, and then
Speaker 2: the bottom four guys are Wiggins minus seventeen, Looney minus ten,
Speaker 2: Draymond minus nine, and Clay minus four. So it's been
Speaker 2: one of those things where it's obvious that the young
Speaker 2: guys are the direction that Steve Kerni needs to go
Speaker 2: within the context of the regular season. That said, Sam,
Speaker 2: you've been covering a dynasty. You know firmly what it
Speaker 2: takes to succeed in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Playoffs.
Speaker 2: How much of this do you think is just a
Speaker 2: regular season solution versus guys that you think can hold
Speaker 2: down a spot in a playoff rotation.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably a mix of both. You are
Speaker 1: correct and saying like, if you're looking to count on
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys under the age of twenty three
Speaker 1: in the playoffs, typically that doesn't work. You can usually
Speaker 1: get away with one or two in your rotation. But
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at the Warriors right now,
Speaker 1: they should be starting three guys on rookie deals. They
Speaker 1: should be starting Tray Jackson Davis, they are starting Kuminga,
Speaker 1: and they are starting Pajemski, And just realistically speaking, that's
Speaker 1: that would be unprecedented to make a deep playoff run.
Speaker 1: With that, you kind of nailed it. The most interesting
Speaker 1: part of the Warriors struggles in the early part of
Speaker 1: the season. And I think we have enough sample size,
Speaker 1: like we're a third of the way through the season
Speaker 1: to say it it's not actually the older guys. It's
Speaker 1: not Chris Paul like he's been steady in a backup
Speaker 1: point guard role. He is who he is. But it's
Speaker 1: been generally positive play. It hasn't even been Clay, who's
Speaker 1: kind of come alive the last month. It's been the
Speaker 1: two guys who you would assume would be the most
Speaker 1: consistent contributors, the two guys who are twenty seven to
Speaker 1: twenty eight years old, theoretically in their prime, the guys
Speaker 1: that they were thinking they could lean on, Wiggins and Looney,
Speaker 1: And I don't know what to make of either of them,
Speaker 1: Like why they're struggling so much. It's confounding, Like Steve
Speaker 1: Kurrz given them a lot of rope. There have been
Speaker 1: calls to change the lineup well before the last four games,
Speaker 1: and I get it. You need Wiggins to play well.
Speaker 1: You're not going to just bend him in mid November
Speaker 1: because he can't hit a shot, but you know we're
Speaker 1: approaching Christmas. And even after he had a really good
Speaker 1: game coming off of the bench, just a no show
Speaker 1: against Boston, a team he tormented less than a year
Speaker 1: and a half ago in the finals, and a matchup
Speaker 1: that's generally favorable to him. So like, I don't really
Speaker 1: know what to say. All I know is like he's
Speaker 1: playing really bad, and Looney you can throw in the
Speaker 1: mix there too.
Speaker 2: I have an insane Andrew Wiggins stat for you. So
Speaker 2: in twenty five games this year, and I believe last
Speaker 2: night was one of them, Andrew Wiggins has logged nine
Speaker 2: single digit scoring games in one hundred and ninety three
Speaker 2: Warriors games. Over the previous four years, he had nine
Speaker 2: total single digit scoring games.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean that matches, That matches the eye test.
Speaker 1: It's like it's not one particular thing that he's doing.
Speaker 1: He's obviously not shooting the ball. Well, you just don't
Speaker 1: feel him out there in anyway in like I don't
Speaker 1: know seventy five percent of the game. So I'll have
Speaker 1: a random game where you're like, that's the Wiggins. I remember,
Speaker 1: that's the guy who was so instrumental in the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two playoffs. But most games are more like last
Speaker 1: night against Boston. Can't hit a shot, floats in and
Speaker 1: out of the game, and I honestly think the shot
Speaker 1: probably has a psychological effect on it, Like when he
Speaker 1: doesn't see it going in, then he starts missing layups,
Speaker 1: which is even more bizarre. Then he starts floating on defense,
Speaker 1: and it's just one of those things where it's like
Speaker 1: it's it's not logical. It's like it's not like he's
Speaker 1: a malcontent or he's not trying. It's just bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mentally, I think a big part of it is
Speaker 2: the fact that his shot is not falling is starting
Speaker 2: to manifest in other areas of his game. Like this
Speaker 2: is a guy that during the championship run I thought
Speaker 2: was firmly one of the top four or five best
Speaker 2: perimeter defenders in basketball, like without a doubt, like this
Speaker 2: dude is the first guy I've ever seen in a
Speaker 2: playoff series.
Speaker 1: Legit make Luca uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Like like that that's a huge claim to fame in
Speaker 2: that specific case. And like it's not just the athletic
Speaker 2: engagement that fades, it also starts to affect his decision making.
Speaker 2: Like you see last night, it's like he smokes that
Speaker 2: wide open layup on the right side of the rim
Speaker 2: to start, and then it's like a couple possessions later,
Speaker 2: he just early in the clock takes a pull up
Speaker 2: fifteen foot or that's contested and you're like ugh, like
Speaker 2: that's that's not the kind of shot that's going to
Speaker 2: get you out of a slump. And you know that's
Speaker 2: the thing is like a lot of times when it
Speaker 2: comes to to these types of struggles. The best thing
Speaker 2: you can do is be more focused and be more
Speaker 2: deliberate about doing your job. And it almost seems like
Speaker 2: as his offense is fading, he's just going further off
Speaker 2: the reservation in the sense that he's losing his focus.
Speaker 2: And you know that's the concerning part, because you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of Warriors fans are like, oh,
Speaker 2: they need to change the starting line they need to
Speaker 2: change the starting lineup, and we all agree that that's
Speaker 2: the direction they needed to go. But from curse perspective,
Speaker 2: it's always more complicated than that. And you know, coaches
Speaker 2: are supposed to be more measured, They're supposed to be
Speaker 2: able to kind of withstand some of the up and
Speaker 2: down nature of the emotions of an NBA season and
Speaker 2: games as well. And like, I'm kind of okay with
Speaker 2: him being late to that party rather than early to
Speaker 2: that party. And to his credit, he made the shift.
Speaker 2: And Jonathan Kamina I saw you posted this morning the
Speaker 2: numbers the difference between Jonathan Kaminga and how well he
Speaker 2: plays when he's with the starters versus when he comes
Speaker 2: off the bench. So let me ask you this, do
Speaker 2: you think that Andrew Wiggins off the bench. Is going
Speaker 2: to send him further down that path or do you
Speaker 2: think this is going to kind of motivate him to
Speaker 2: be more engaged and to try to work his way
Speaker 2: back into that lineup.
Speaker 1: It's hard to say, because if we record this pod
Speaker 1: before the Boston game, I'd say, oh, see, it worked.
Speaker 1: He was against Portland, probably his best all round game
Speaker 1: of the Sea. You just felt him. He hit his shots,
Speaker 1: you felt him defensively, you felt him rebounding the ball.
Speaker 1: It looked like the best version of Wiggins. And after
Speaker 1: I watched a him, I was like, Oh, it's only
Speaker 1: a matter of time before Steve puts him back in
Speaker 1: the starting lineup. Stroke of genius, blah blah blah. And
Speaker 1: then he just comes out and does this the next game.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, but I don't think they have
Speaker 1: a choice because you read those splits the plus minuses
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the show, Clay has great splits
Speaker 1: and Steph has great splits. Since they took Wiggins out
Speaker 1: of the starting lineup, like it was pretty much all
Speaker 1: Wiggins tearing them down, And if you go into like
Speaker 1: the plus minus data from earlier in the season, this
Speaker 1: was true too. It's too easy to say, like he's
Speaker 1: the you know, the only problem with the team they have.
Speaker 1: They have issues all over the place. But like it's
Speaker 1: hard to argue that, like it's not happening. Every time
Speaker 1: he was inserting the lineup, they were playing playing worse.
Speaker 1: He can't. He wasn't hitting shots, he wasn't really defending.
Speaker 1: There's no impact there.
Speaker 2: Clay's actually a great exam of He's going through the
Speaker 2: same thing Andrew Wiggins is in a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: except for his approach is like he's just more focused.
Speaker 2: You can tell his shot selection is improved over the
Speaker 2: last few games. Just in general, he's approaching it like
Speaker 2: I'm just going to find a way to do as
Speaker 2: much as I can to help winning, and the shots
Speaker 2: will fall, you know what I mean. And that's the
Speaker 2: thing is like he missed a bunch of clean looks
Speaker 2: in ot but over the course of most of the
Speaker 2: second half, I thought he just played a really smart game,
Speaker 2: taking the right shots. He generated a lot of open
Speaker 2: role opportunities for Trace Jackson Davis. I thought it was
Speaker 2: a great Klay Thompson stretch here over the course the
Speaker 2: last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: So Steve Kirk, I was gonna say, to the Clay point,
Speaker 1: they've been playing faster part of their slow start, or
Speaker 1: really just terrible November, if you want to, if you
Speaker 1: want to kind of really hone in on it was
Speaker 1: they were like one of the bottom teams in pace,
Speaker 1: which is just the opposite which you associate the Warriors.
Speaker 1: But some of that was the Draymond suspension, trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how to use Chris Paul. He's a naturally
Speaker 1: more methodical player, but Clay was the one who I
Speaker 1: think it affected the most because you know, he's a
Speaker 1: movement shooter. He moves off of screens. He's not a
Speaker 1: half court player. He's not a you know, dribble dribble, dribble,
Speaker 1: get my shot guy. Like, if he does that, he
Speaker 1: tends to be inefficient. And since they made the lineup
Speaker 1: change and everything, they look more like the Warriors, just
Speaker 1: in terms of style of play, pace and everything. And
Speaker 1: if he's open, it's the numbers tend to be favorable
Speaker 1: for him.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you know what's interesting too about the
Speaker 2: starting lineup in particular, is like I do think that
Speaker 2: a big part of what made the loony Draymond front
Speaker 2: court no longer functional in the regular season is the
Speaker 2: decline of Andrew Wiggins and the fact that Clay was
Speaker 2: not playing as well as he had been.
Speaker 1: It became to like.
Speaker 2: Because what was happening is because we again we all
Speaker 2: saw that same lineup just crush everybody the previous year
Speaker 2: and literally win the title the year before. And again
Speaker 2: that that doesn't mean just because it won't work against
Speaker 2: the Lakers doesn't mean it shouldn't work against the vast
Speaker 2: majority of the teams you play over the course of
Speaker 2: the regular season. And I thought a big part of
Speaker 2: it is like once the offensive shot creation kind of
Speaker 2: dipped below that whatever that mandatory minimum was to be
Speaker 2: able to make that work, it just it just stopped functioning.
Speaker 2: And that's where it became a problem.
Speaker 1: And to your point, yeah, I mean they were reliant
Speaker 1: on three guys being forty percent three point shooters, two
Speaker 1: of which being Stephan Clay were like two best of
Speaker 1: all times. So yeah, if Wiggins is not hitting shot
Speaker 1: and is a non shooter, then I mean, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: three guys who are just non offensive threats, and of
Speaker 1: course it doesn't work.
Speaker 2: Right, And the misses have been ugly with Wiggins as
Speaker 2: of late two. It's flat, it's long, it's not it.
Speaker 2: It just looks like he's chucking shots up. At this point,
Speaker 2: it seems a little bit like a lost cause. So
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk a little bit big picture. So
Speaker 2: sixteenth in offense, eighteenth in defense to this point, eighteenth
Speaker 2: in net rating. They are three and one since they
Speaker 2: changed the starting lineup. They've really struggled defensively in those games,
Speaker 2: but obviously Draymond Green being out is going to play
Speaker 2: a role there. They are thirteen and fourteen, one game
Speaker 2: back of the ten.
Speaker 1: See.
Speaker 2: I do think it's important to mention, and this is
Speaker 2: something I've been hammering on the entire year. Sham's reported
Speaker 2: yesterday or two days ago that Draymond's going to be
Speaker 2: out basically the rest of this week and then two
Speaker 2: more weeks after that, and then potentially longer.
Speaker 1: But let's just say through.
Speaker 2: The next two and a half weeks for as a minimum.
Speaker 2: If that was the case, he'd miss nine more games.
Speaker 2: They play Washington and Portland, then they go to Denver,
Speaker 2: Then they play Miami, Dallas, Orlando, Detroit, Toronto. All those
Speaker 2: games are at home except for the Denver game. Again,
Speaker 2: they played one of the toughest early schedules that you
Speaker 2: saw around the league, and I would argue, even without Draymond,
Speaker 2: it's more likely than not that they're above five hundred
Speaker 2: in that stretch with all those games at home and
Speaker 2: again some of these lesser teams. So like a lot
Speaker 2: of this is actually shaped out, considering how horrific it looked,
Speaker 2: and especially on the heels of this recent three game
Speaker 2: winning streak, there's actually like a light at the end
Speaker 2: of the tunnel here. I think Draymond could return to
Speaker 2: the lineup and then be close to five hundred or
Speaker 2: over five hundred. So my question for you is, do
Speaker 2: you believe this team is worth investing in?
Speaker 1: I do. I think if you were to look at
Speaker 1: this team, they're about a five hundred team right now,
Speaker 1: thirteen and fourteen. They could easily be fifteen and twelve.
Speaker 1: But whatever, they're a five hundred team you insert Draymon.
Speaker 1: They're more or less the team they were last year.
Speaker 1: To me, Wiggins has fallen off, but Kuminga has gotten better.
Speaker 1: They're sitting in my mind as next second tier. They're
Speaker 1: not a contender. They're one piece away. It feels like
Speaker 1: in general, and you know what if you have one
Speaker 1: of the handful of players who's capable of being the
Speaker 1: best player in the title team, and Steph very much
Speaker 1: still is capable of doing that, and you're, let's say,
Speaker 1: one player away. I think you have to go for it.
Speaker 1: I really do. Doesn't mean you make a trade just
Speaker 1: for the sake of it, But if the right opportunity
Speaker 1: comes up, like they really do feel one player, uh,
Speaker 1: maybe he's a second or a third option, honestly, maybe
Speaker 1: someone who just replaces the production that Wiggins gave you
Speaker 1: two years ago, then I think they have a puncher's
Speaker 1: chance against against the contenders, against the Denver, against the Lakers,
Speaker 1: against whoever comes out of the East. So I think
Speaker 1: they have to look at it that way. And that's why,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, this stretch is really important, because if
Speaker 1: they come out of it on the other side, you know,
Speaker 1: sitting in that six to eight range in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: really just being kind of in the mix, which is
Speaker 1: even as the ten right now, just looking at the standings,
Speaker 1: they are a whopping two games out of the sixth
Speaker 1: seed or three games, like they're right, they're right, right,
Speaker 1: It's not it's not that big deal, that big a deal.
Speaker 1: As long as they stay in the mix. I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure on management to do something.
Speaker 1: If they obviously go into free fall losing at home
Speaker 1: to Detroit and some of these games, well then they've
Speaker 1: given management easy out to reset and not go for it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's one of those things where I think when you
Speaker 2: were looking at the Draymond suspension originally, and you were
Speaker 2: looking at the schedule and you're like, man, Clippers, Nets
Speaker 2: or Celtics are like, man, they could drop three of
Speaker 2: these four and suddenly be three games out of the
Speaker 2: plane and be staring down a you know, a three
Speaker 2: week stretch without Draymond. It's crazy how just those three
Speaker 2: wins kind of changes the perspective of everything, and in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, it kind of reminds me of
Speaker 2: the Lakers last year, where it was like you just
Speaker 2: got to get to February somehow, and like if they can,
Speaker 2: if they can reconfigure, then you can make your run.
Speaker 1: Now that's go ahead. Yeah, that's how that's That's kind
Speaker 1: of how I felt about it the whole year. They
Speaker 1: kind of do feel like last year's Lakers in the
Speaker 1: sense of you have a giant expiring who doesn't really
Speaker 1: fit your roster and Chris Paul. Although Chris Paul, to
Speaker 1: be fair, has he's been I don't think you could
Speaker 1: have asked more for this. You know, he's been a pro,
Speaker 1: he's played that role well. He's just not what they
Speaker 1: in general. And they have some assets. They have young guys.
Speaker 1: All those young guys actually are playing well. And then
Speaker 1: they do have some picks they can move. They don't
Speaker 1: have all their picks, they have some. Yeah, to your point,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the Lakers get you stay in
Speaker 1: the mix and see what's available to deadline. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: it's actually.
Speaker 2: Kind of interesting because I was talking about this on
Speaker 2: my show last night, Like, you know, you look at
Speaker 2: this lineup and they're like closing the game with Trace
Speaker 2: Jackson Davis and Jonathan Kminga and and you look at
Speaker 2: it and you go like, there's no way this is
Speaker 2: what they're gonna roll out there in April. But like
Speaker 2: it kind of reminds me of the Lakers stretch last
Speaker 2: year where it's like there's these it's like when Anthony
Speaker 2: Davis got hurt and it's like this weird Lebron Dennis Schroeder,
Speaker 2: Russell Westbrook just driving kick party that they had for
Speaker 2: like a month, and they just hovered around five hundred
Speaker 2: to just give themselves a chance, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: And like that's kind of the way I look at it.
Speaker 2: Like they're gonna be big underdogs against Denver, big underdogs
Speaker 2: against probably Orlando, don't get me wrong, Like Dallas probably
Speaker 2: will be a favorite as well against them. Like they're
Speaker 2: gonna they're gonna drop some of these games just from
Speaker 2: a simple talent standpoint. But if they can just like
Speaker 2: hang in there and linger around five hundred. Now, the
Speaker 2: question is because one of the things that I've talked
Speaker 2: about is, like I actually view Jonathan Kaminga is one
Speaker 2: of the most enticing young players around the league. And
Speaker 2: so what becomes tricky is you've got this group of
Speaker 2: young players Jonathan Kamingo, Moses Moody, Trace Jackson Davis, and
Speaker 2: Brandon Pitzemski, and essentially, if you are going to try
Speaker 2: you and I have talked about this on other platforms
Speaker 2: in over text as well, this idea of like who
Speaker 2: what archetype should the player should they target? And so
Speaker 2: I want to kind of approach this from two fronts.
Speaker 2: So let's start with the archetype what type of player
Speaker 2: do you think rounds out a core five with Golden State,
Speaker 2: That could be the group you go down with in
Speaker 2: the Western Conference Finals.
Speaker 1: It's got to be a front court player, and it
Speaker 1: needs to be a two way front court player. For
Speaker 1: the most part, there's some leeway there. But like we
Speaker 1: go back to the Draymon and Looney thing, doesn't work anymore. Okay,
Speaker 1: they honestly got more mileage out of it than I
Speaker 1: think anyone thought they could. But the reality is you
Speaker 1: need to stagger those guys, and the way Loony's playing
Speaker 1: like he might not be in the rotation of the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I kind of think I'll come around in some capacity.
Speaker 1: Mainly it's a different conversation they need. You can go
Speaker 1: back and watch the Lakers series. If they had another
Speaker 1: four or five, they beat the Lakers, but the Lakers
Speaker 1: knew they had no one to put at that combo.
Speaker 1: Made it easy for Anthony Davis to just wreak havoc
Speaker 1: on them, and they just couldn't score enough. That's what
Speaker 1: it comes down to. So I'm not saying it's easy
Speaker 1: to find that guy, but like we've seen the names floated,
Speaker 1: Pascal Siakam Lowry markin In potentially available at the deadline.
Speaker 1: They're not perfect fits, but both of those guys would
Speaker 1: significantly raise the ceiling of this team, and those are
Speaker 1: the type of players they should be pursuing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because like last year, that was literally
Speaker 2: what they were doing. It's like, let's try Gary Payton,
Speaker 2: Let's try Jamichael Green.
Speaker 1: They were just trying this movie.
Speaker 2: It was like, who's gonna be this guy we can use? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and there was always one flaw in one of those
Speaker 2: players that made it just just not work. And it's
Speaker 2: like there aren't enough Jamichael Green and pop threes that
Speaker 2: he could make to justify all of the other elements
Speaker 2: of the game, right, And you know, I Siakam is
Speaker 2: the guy that I keep coming back to because that
Speaker 2: one hundred percent agree Like Stephan Clay. I'm going down
Speaker 2: with Stephan Clay. Like I'm sorry, I'm going down with
Speaker 2: Stephan Clay. Whether or not it's Wiggins or Kaminga at
Speaker 2: the three, that's that's a decision for another day, and
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about that here in just a second.
Speaker 2: But to me, it's Draymond at the five, Stephan Clay
Speaker 2: at the one, two, and then one of those athletic forwards,
Speaker 2: and then another type of player in that archetype. And
Speaker 2: that's why I keep coming back to Siakam because one
Speaker 2: of the things that the Warriors have always been very
Speaker 2: good at is like even when Steph Curry gets ends
Speaker 2: up on switches, They're able to scram him out of
Speaker 2: it or to or they'll try to hedge and recover
Speaker 2: to keep him out of the switches, or even when
Speaker 2: he gets on the switch, they provide excellent backside help
Speaker 2: and give him a job that he can do pressing
Speaker 2: up and like Clay Thompson holds up excellent on switches,
Speaker 2: whoever that forward is, Wiggins or Kaminga would hold up
Speaker 2: Draymond the pascal Siakam. That to me is where I
Speaker 2: might exactly and I start to look at that group
Speaker 2: of five as like, Okay, this is something where if
Speaker 2: I'm Denver and I'm sitting game planning for the series,
Speaker 2: I'm like, shit, what do we do about this? Like
Speaker 2: this is gonna be somewhat of a problem. So but
Speaker 2: here's where it gets complicated because that Wiggans Kaminga piece
Speaker 2: there is going to be the challenge because if I'm Toronto.
Speaker 2: I'm like, sure, yeah, you can have Pascal, but Jonathan's coming,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, that's what they're gonna say.
Speaker 2: So out of the Jonathan Kaminga, Moses Moody, Trace Jackson, Davis,
Speaker 2: Brandon Pazemski crew, who do you view in that crew
Speaker 2: as like indispensable versus like I would be willing to
Speaker 2: trade for an upgrade for a short window run with Steph.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is gonna be fun. Brandon Pajemski is the
Speaker 1: only one I really struggle to trade, just given the
Speaker 1: fact that he's a twenty year old rookie and clearly
Speaker 1: better than all the other players, even though he doesn't
Speaker 1: play the position you want. He's a he's a combo guard.
Speaker 1: He's got good size for a point guard, litle undersize
Speaker 1: for it two. But you just watch him play, he
Speaker 1: actually represents a potential building block for them in a
Speaker 1: lot of different ways, the passing, the shooting, the defense.
Speaker 1: He's like a weird hybrid of Jalen Brunson and Caruso
Speaker 1: at times, very interesting player. I would it would hurt
Speaker 1: to trade him, is where I'm at with it, And
Speaker 1: would I would be tempted to say no, Kuminga would
Speaker 1: be number two. I would be willing to part with
Speaker 1: him if you got a Pascal Siakam or a lowry
Speaker 1: market in because essentially they'd be taking his spot at
Speaker 1: power forward in general. And the assumption would be if
Speaker 1: you're making that trade, you're keeping said player. You're not
Speaker 1: trading for a you know, when you're a three month
Speaker 1: rental of Siakam and then letting him walk. So it
Speaker 1: would hurt because at some point Kumingo will be a
Speaker 1: better player than Siakam, but if you're thinking about the
Speaker 1: next three years, he won't be. You know, he just
Speaker 1: won't be. And then Moses Moody, he's a good player,
Speaker 1: but he just he's just kind of always the odd
Speaker 1: man out. He's I don't want to say he's a
Speaker 1: placeable three and DP player because every team needs those guys,
Speaker 1: but be willing to give him up if needed to
Speaker 1: entice a team. I just don't know that he's enough
Speaker 1: of a sweetener to pull off a deal. To your point,
Speaker 1: anyone wanting to make a trade with the Warriors is
Speaker 1: going to want future draft picks where they're betting against
Speaker 1: the war You know, they're betting that Steph will eventually
Speaker 1: get old and they don't have anything else, and then
Speaker 1: they want Kuminga because he's the most obvious, Like I
Speaker 1: could see this guy being like Jalen Brown level All
Speaker 1: Star one day. I could see him being a guy
Speaker 1: that you know, we can build around. Like he's not
Speaker 1: going to be your first option. He's not going to
Speaker 1: be Kawhi Leonard, which some people thought like there was
Speaker 1: a chance he could be coming out of the draft,
Speaker 1: But he is an effective two way wing and he
Speaker 1: can never have too many of those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he has the highest potential out of
Speaker 2: that group, but I also think he's very clearly the
Speaker 2: guy that has the more bizarre basketball fit within the
Speaker 2: Warriors system in terms of just like their five outread
Speaker 2: and react stuff Like he, to me, is going to
Speaker 2: be a very good player for a long time in
Speaker 2: the NBA for somebody. And like some of this with
Speaker 2: with fans like you gotta you almost gotta like understand uh,
Speaker 2: because a lot of them will be like, we can't
Speaker 2: afford to give up Kamingo. We can't afford to give
Speaker 2: up Kamingo. That's like I totally get that. You don't
Speaker 2: think the Clippers when they gave away shay Yo just
Speaker 2: Alexander were like that dude's gonna go be amazing for Okay,
Speaker 2: See they knew it, of course they did. They had
Speaker 2: him in building for all those years. They saw his
Speaker 2: work ethic, they saw what he was doing, you know.
Speaker 1: And like like Ingram or or like Ingram for Anthony Damis,
Speaker 1: Ingram was very clearly going to be a good player.
Speaker 1: But you know, you kind of have to do that deal.
Speaker 2: Right timeline and fit and like that's my thing is,
Speaker 2: like it's really this simple. You mentioned Steph being at
Speaker 2: that level still one hundred percent agree twenty eight points
Speaker 2: per game, sixty five percent through shooting that When you
Speaker 2: have that in house and you have the guy that
Speaker 2: can stare Jason Tatum in the face and out execute
Speaker 2: him down the stretch of a big game, When you
Speaker 2: have a guy at that caliber, it's just such a
Speaker 2: rare thing to have around the league. And every team
Speaker 2: that wins the title, if you hoist the trophy, you
Speaker 2: got one of those guys. It's like an extreme rarity
Speaker 2: if you don't, right and even then it's like we're
Speaker 2: looking at the Spurs with like Duncan, who used to
Speaker 2: be that guy right, So, like you have to have
Speaker 2: that guy that's the foundational piece, you also have the
Speaker 2: means with which to put next to him a legitimate
Speaker 2: number two like Pascal Siakam, which then all of a
Speaker 2: sudden slots all these other guys into very achievable roles.
Speaker 2: And so the way you have to look at it
Speaker 2: is it's like, is Kaminga going to be better than
Speaker 2: Pascal Siakim in two three years?
Speaker 1: Probably?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like probably, Like there's that's that's certainly something that
Speaker 2: he can do. And I wouldn't be the least bit
Speaker 2: surprised if.
Speaker 1: That's some point he will one day Siakam will be
Speaker 1: thirty four and he'll be twenty five. Math just tends
Speaker 1: to work out in his favorite that exactly.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's just a simple question of like,
Speaker 2: like to Toronto, they're in a different timeline. They're thinking
Speaker 2: Scottie Barnes, they're thinking, Okay, what if we add another small,
Speaker 2: another big athletic forward next to Scotty Barnes. We'll see
Speaker 2: what he's got. Let's see what if there's a fit
Speaker 2: there Siakam. We might have to extend on this long
Speaker 2: term deal may not fit the timeline as well, or
Speaker 2: you're the Golden State and it's like Jonathan Comica can
Speaker 2: be really good, but Steph's thirty five, Clay is starting
Speaker 2: to see some signs of slowing down. We gotta do
Speaker 2: something here to try to reconfigure this thing. It's it's
Speaker 2: just a no brainer that, like you might have to
Speaker 2: consider a swap or you get rid of one of
Speaker 2: those guys. To the fit point, Pozemski, I one hundred
Speaker 2: percent agree with you, because, like I look at him
Speaker 2: as a guy that's like such an obvious natural fit
Speaker 2: in the Warriors system. You mentioned his strength, it's an
Speaker 2: important piece, Like he's just if.
Speaker 1: He's gonna actually be that good of a point of
Speaker 1: attack defender, which like he's blowing me away as a rookie.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you want him guarding Jamal Murray or
Speaker 1: someone in a playoff series per se, But like, if
Speaker 1: he's this good, now, imagine what he could be in
Speaker 1: a year's time. That also allows you to slot Clay
Speaker 1: at small forwards significantly easier where he's he's kind of
Speaker 1: better guarding strength and quickness anyway at this stage of
Speaker 1: his career.
Speaker 2: So that slotting piece is the big one there. And
Speaker 2: like that's where if you get a Siakam and like
Speaker 2: let's say, let's say you do one of the other
Speaker 2: things too, is like we have to factor in that
Speaker 2: if you trade Jonathan Kaminga and you bring in Pascal Siakam,
Speaker 2: that may very well end up freeing up rotation minutes
Speaker 2: for Wiggins to have a larger berth for him to
Speaker 2: try to figure things out. Because right now, like I
Speaker 2: look at Siakim as a guy who could also lay
Speaker 2: the same role that Sarich is playing on this team,
Speaker 2: like as essentially an anchor front court player for their
Speaker 2: bench units too. And like in general, when you start
Speaker 2: to build lineups, you can keep a Poziemski in point
Speaker 2: of attack roles that are achievable for him with his
Speaker 2: level of athleticism. I'm one hundred percent with you on
Speaker 2: that one. And again, Moody, Like, Moody's obviously one of
Speaker 2: the more expendable appearing players in that group. It's just
Speaker 2: to your point, he's not a sweetener. There's no team
Speaker 2: around the league that's like, man, I need Moses Moody
Speaker 2: on my roster. They're like, oh, yeah, if we took
Speaker 2: him in a deal, we'd be happy.
Speaker 1: With you men. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. You're be hoping
Speaker 1: maybe if you throw him in you don't have to
Speaker 1: include an extra pick, right, so then you're not as
Speaker 1: worried about when everyone gets old or something to that effect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, the more you talk through it, like it's obvious.
Speaker 1: The other thing Siakam has working do is benefit as
Speaker 1: he's twenty nine. So really, if you feel confident for
Speaker 1: the next three years he can be productive for you,
Speaker 1: that's probably the max amount of time you're going to
Speaker 1: get out of Steph and Clay. I mean, Steph could
Speaker 1: just continue to defy the odds, but you kind of
Speaker 1: have to take these in like two to three year
Speaker 1: increments at this stage, right makes sense. He's younger, he
Speaker 1: can carry more of a load for you and help
Speaker 1: you preserve Steph because end of the day, when you
Speaker 1: get to like serious playoff basketball, you're gonna need like
Speaker 1: the best version of Steph to show off. Well.
Speaker 2: One of the things that Siakam brings to the table too,
Speaker 2: that the Warriors never really had is he brings a
Speaker 2: guy that you can start using for an alternative method
Speaker 2: of offensive attack. So what I mean by that is, like,
Speaker 2: you know, Wiggins was a guy that teams would live
Speaker 2: with attacking matchups and he'd get his eighteen to twenty
Speaker 2: two in that, but it wasn't something that they could
Speaker 2: like really depend on in late game situations. Now, imagine
Speaker 2: a situation where has to be guarded by a bigger
Speaker 2: forward and Steph is guarded by a quicker point of
Speaker 2: attack defender, and you now open up a two man
Speaker 2: game there where you can now you know, throw the
Speaker 2: ball down to the block to Pascal Siakam, and he's
Speaker 2: been one of the most effective post players in the
Speaker 2: league this year. Attacking matchups. It gives you just a
Speaker 2: different look because again you mentioned the Lakers series that
Speaker 2: was a big part of it. It wasn't just the
Speaker 2: fact that they didn't have five man groupings that could
Speaker 2: thrive around Stephan pick and roll. It was also that
Speaker 2: it just had to be Steph pick and roll every time.
Speaker 2: They just they didn't have another action they could run
Speaker 2: that could defend dependably generate quality shots. And so to me,
Speaker 2: like Siakam is that guy to where like I think,
Speaker 2: I think the Warriors might value him a little higher
Speaker 2: than some of the other teams out there who might
Speaker 2: be targeting bigger fish, like a Lori Markinen, like a
Speaker 2: og Ananobe. I think as someone that some teams will
Speaker 2: probably view as a better player than Sakam. So like Siakam,
Speaker 2: I think is an achievable goal as well, and I
Speaker 2: think that goes a long way towards like making it.
Speaker 1: Point what one of the warriors other big issues is
Speaker 1: shot creation. It's kind of the you know, they move
Speaker 1: the ball, they get a lot of mileage out of
Speaker 1: guys who can't create their own shot. Uh and and
Speaker 1: then you know it inevitably turns into Steph save us offense.
Speaker 1: It would be nice to have another player who, to
Speaker 1: your point, you can just you can throw the ball
Speaker 1: to and just you know, let let him score on
Speaker 1: the post, let him go one on one from the
Speaker 1: mid post. The things we see him do with Toronto, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean he addresses a lot of their needs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a bad three point shooter. It'd be nice if
Speaker 1: he could do that too. But if he was a
Speaker 1: if he did all the things he did and shot
Speaker 1: forty percent from three, then you're talking about like Kevin
Speaker 1: Durant White type of stuff, and you can't have it all.
Speaker 1: I think all overall, more positive as than negatives.
Speaker 2: Siakam's also having one of his better defensive seasons in
Speaker 2: recent years, and he's like a legitimate weapon, a guy
Speaker 2: that has tons of big game experience.
Speaker 1: I think that's that's the part we didn't even really
Speaker 1: talk about, Like he's a seem less fit to their defense.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you can just plug him in. You
Speaker 1: put him next to Draymond. Wiggins gets back to himself
Speaker 1: as the small forward Clay that resembles kind of the
Speaker 1: Dynasty Warriors teams with the switching and the versatility defensively
Speaker 1: that they've gotten away from just by virtue of the
Speaker 1: personnel they're playing right.
Speaker 2: And again, I would just put Wiggins back into the
Speaker 2: starting lineup if that happened, and I'd be like, I
Speaker 2: know that with Steph Clay and Draymond, we're still gonna
Speaker 2: win a lot of games. And if even if Wiggins
Speaker 2: isn't playing well and just you're basically taking a bet
Speaker 2: that he's going to get it together. At that point,
Speaker 2: I have one last question exactly and then and then
Speaker 2: trickle down into some other things. So I have one
Speaker 2: last question for you before we get out of here.
Speaker 2: So as you and I both know the just about
Speaker 2: every fan base out there blames the coach anytime anything
Speaker 2: goes wrong, and I think we all agree that Steve
Speaker 2: Kerr has made some mistakes this season. I think I
Speaker 2: think they are mistakes of you know, it's funny. I've
Speaker 2: been watching I've been watching the show on TV called
Speaker 2: for All Mankind, Like there's there's like these older astronauts
Speaker 2: and like it spans over decades and like we're to
Speaker 2: the future now and all the old astronauts are mad
Speaker 2: at all the young people and they're all like kind
Speaker 2: of you know, stuck in their ways, kind of get
Speaker 2: off my lawn type of people. And I kind of
Speaker 2: feel like that happens a little bit where you know,
Speaker 2: you've got Steve Kerr and you've got Klay Thompson going,
Speaker 2: like I believe in these guys to the end, and
Speaker 2: you've got and it's just I do think that a
Speaker 2: big part of this is like they're late to the party,
Speaker 2: but they're getting to the party. And that's the kind
Speaker 2: of thing that happens with some of these older guys
Speaker 2: that have had a lot of success in the past. Now,
Speaker 2: what we have been discussing is effectively a reconfiguration of
Speaker 2: the Warriors, not just in not just in lineup construction,
Speaker 2: but it also could fundamentally change.
Speaker 1: The way they play.
Speaker 2: If Pascal siakam comes in, I could see them doing
Speaker 2: more switching defensively, I could see them I could see
Speaker 2: them offensively running more heliocentric stuff where they do spam
Speaker 2: a specific action like a two man game with Stefan Siakamoor.
Speaker 2: It's a reconfiguration. So my question for you is do
Speaker 2: you still believe in Steve Kerr as the guy to
Speaker 2: lead this configuration of the Warriors or reconfiguration of the Warriors?
Speaker 1: I should say yeah. I mean, look, no coaches without
Speaker 1: their idiosyncrasies that annoy you, right, And part of the
Speaker 1: struggles this season is like this roster really needs a
Speaker 1: coach who's better at development, who's more trusting of young guys,
Speaker 1: Like like the Okac games stick in my mind just
Speaker 1: because they got beat by ched Ocri hitting game, tying
Speaker 1: threes twice, Like what are the odds of that? Right?
Speaker 1: But in both those games I would point to someone
Speaker 1: like Mark Dagen. I was just making so many subtle
Speaker 1: adjustments down the stretch, whereas Steve's very much I trust
Speaker 1: my guys type of guy, and he doesn't have that
Speaker 1: type of roster. So yeah, it's been frustrated watching. But
Speaker 1: that said, if they make a move to add more veterans,
Speaker 1: he is a veterans coach, He's got it done in
Speaker 1: the playoffs a handful of times, can't say he hasn't,
Speaker 1: and he has the buying of his superstar like unquestioned trust.
Speaker 1: I think this is always left out of the conversation here,
Speaker 1: and people are like, why does he run more pick
Speaker 1: and roll? It's like you think you think Steph's asking
Speaker 1: him for pick and roll and he's like no, it's
Speaker 1: like he's it's Steph can do whatever he wants. Steph
Speaker 1: can launch it from his own free throw line, and
Speaker 1: Steve won't do anything about it. You know. It's like
Speaker 1: he's got his unquestioned trust, and I think that's an
Speaker 1: underrated quality. So yeah, I mean, look, he's a four
Speaker 1: time coach. You're not gonna fire him midseason.
Speaker 2: Well, not to mention this, the simple fact that like,
Speaker 2: don't underestimate too just as a competitor, what a trade,
Speaker 2: like a trade for Siakam could do to re engage
Speaker 2: him from that standpoint, and I think I still think
Speaker 2: Steve Kerr is one of the top tier coaches in
Speaker 2: the league overall. And I think that like to me,
Speaker 2: you put it perfectly like he's a veteran's coach. So,
Speaker 2: you know, we mentioned that nine game stretch. Let's say
Speaker 2: it goes south. Like let's say they just have a
Speaker 2: really Portland's playing pretty well. Let's say they lose to
Speaker 2: Portland somehow, and then they go to Denver and they lose.
Speaker 2: Miami beats the Dallas beats them, Orlando beats them, and
Speaker 2: suddenly we come back to like a three and six
Speaker 2: stretch and they're, you know, four games out of the
Speaker 2: ten seed, and it just looks really really bleak, and
Speaker 2: and it just like and they decide to go another direction,
Speaker 2: meaning like instead of you know, they start to keep
Speaker 2: young guys and acquire more young talent, get rid of
Speaker 2: some of the veterans.
Speaker 1: They go that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be worth because one hundred percent agree
Speaker 2: with you. Like Steve Kurr is a doghouse coach. He's
Speaker 2: he's a guy that he's so obsessed with winning that
Speaker 2: particular game that like he means so quick to go
Speaker 2: away from the young guys.
Speaker 1: And he's so he's so veteran heavy Like the game
Speaker 1: that will stick into my mind is the in season
Speaker 1: tournament game where Sack came back twenty eight on. That
Speaker 1: was eighty twenty plus and the only player who was
Speaker 1: feeling it was Moses Moody And what does he do
Speaker 1: subs him out to allow Sacramento come all. Those are
Speaker 1: like the type of things where I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it's time for a new voice. Those are the
Speaker 1: type of little things. But to your point, if they're
Speaker 1: going to lean more into the veterans and just say,
Speaker 1: you know, we like the kids, but we don't love them.
Speaker 1: We don't need all of them here. We need to
Speaker 1: be consumed with this season, next season and what happens
Speaker 1: after that happens after that. Like you're not going to
Speaker 1: do better than Steve Kerr, but that adds that type
Speaker 1: of coach.
Speaker 2: Yep, No, I one hundred percent agree. And again like
Speaker 2: I just think I think you lean on you lean
Speaker 2: into what your specific strength is, Like your strength in
Speaker 2: that case would be experience and continuity mixed with a
Speaker 2: new influx of talent with Siakam, I don't think you
Speaker 2: mess with that by changing the coach. Well, Sam, I
Speaker 2: sincerely appreciate you taking the time to come hang out today.
Speaker 2: Is there anything you want to plug before we get
Speaker 2: out of here?
Speaker 1: Just if you want Warriors content, check out light Years pod.
Speaker 1: We go live after basically every Warriors game feed stays
Speaker 1: updated and I appreciate it. I was thinking about it.
Speaker 1: We picked the perfect time to do it. Were kind
Speaker 1: of texting like when should we do this? And we'd
Speaker 1: have got a completely different show if we did this
Speaker 1: a week ago after the Clipper game when Draymond's like,
Speaker 1: who knows what's going on? It's just it's funny how
Speaker 1: that works. But it's a long season, right, Well.
Speaker 2: Dude, what it was when it was bad shot, run out,
Speaker 2: Celtics lay up, bad shot, run out Celtics layup, Like
Speaker 2: there was there's a version of today's show that could
Speaker 2: have swung just based on what happened.
Speaker 1: The game stopped in the third quarter. Literally, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, babe did the Celtics a favor? Not
Speaker 1: talking about that? Oh god, oh god?
Speaker 2: But yeah, Andy and Sam do an incredible job covering
Speaker 2: the Warriors on a daily basis. I highly encourage you
Speaker 2: guys to check it out. Sam, again, thanks for coming
Speaker 2: to hang out as always. I appreciate all of you
Speaker 2: guys for supporting the show. We'll be back with a
Speaker 2: couple of film sessions on Thursday and Friday before we
Speaker 2: head into the weekend. I'll see you guys tomorrow.
Speaker 1: The volume