Speaker 1: The best medicine, the cheapest therapy, the shortest distance between
Speaker 1: two people, the most reliable gauge of human nature, a
Speaker 1: force for democracy. What has earned all those labels and
Speaker 1: many more from some of the deepest thinkers in history? Laughter?
Speaker 1: Of course? What else connects as better and faster than
Speaker 1: a good laugh. I love the line from Ricky Gervais,
Speaker 1: if you can laugh in the face of adversity your bulletproof.
Speaker 1: How do we need that now? Laughter is the topic
Speaker 1: for my two guests, both extremely smart, both inspiring for
Speaker 1: different reasons. Both former college football players. Gary Goldman X
Speaker 1: Boston College Eagle, creates laughter for a living. So what's
Speaker 1: what's funny? What's funny to me is that you remember
Speaker 1: your first laugh, because I do too, and I think
Speaker 1: that's I think that's significant because we we everybody talks
Speaker 1: about how they remember when they had their first kiss,
Speaker 1: when they they got their first girlfriend, or or sex,
Speaker 1: of course their wedding, But the first laugh is is
Speaker 1: not something that I mean, it's only a matter of
Speaker 1: time before there's a podcast discussing my first laugh. Dr
Speaker 1: Myron Roll, former f s U Seminole, explains what laughter
Speaker 1: does to our brains and why it feels so good.
Speaker 1: And also facial expression, as you had mentioned earlier, this
Speaker 1: is also controlled from the brains them in that central
Speaker 1: processing area. So a lot of times when people laugh,
Speaker 1: they just have people say they face lights up as
Speaker 1: the muscles of their face just starts to sort of
Speaker 1: open up and eyes wide and and things like that.
Speaker 1: Myron is also going to share how laughter has helped
Speaker 1: him adapt on the football field and the front lines
Speaker 1: of the COVID nineteen fight. I first guest is Gary Goldman. Brilliant, hilarious,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite comedians. He's been on every major
Speaker 1: late night show that a bunch of special. Gary is
Speaker 1: also a symbol of hope for those struggling with depression
Speaker 1: and anxiety. In his latest special, The Great Depression, he
Speaker 1: handles some very dark stuff, including a stay in the
Speaker 1: psych word, with great humanity, vulnerability, and hilarity. And the
Speaker 1: special Gary also delivers a lot of the smartest, funniest
Speaker 1: material on sports that I've ever heard. I fell in
Speaker 1: love with basketball almost immediately because because basketball just fits
Speaker 1: my personality, it's still does. Basketball is the only sport
Speaker 1: you can practice by yourself. I spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time practicing basketball by myself. And basketball also fits me
Speaker 1: because it's the only sport where if somebody so much
Speaker 1: as slaps you on the wrist, they stop the game,
Speaker 1: stop the game, set rate everyone, and let you make
Speaker 1: two easy shots while everyone else is forced to watch quietly,
Speaker 1: as if to say, think about what you did well.
Speaker 1: The topic today is laughter, because I think it's universal.
Speaker 1: It strengthens bonds, it builds relationships, and I think it's
Speaker 1: needed now as much as it's ever been needed. So laughter.
Speaker 1: So for those of us that will never know the
Speaker 1: feeling of being on stage and getting laugh after laugh
Speaker 1: just in waves from strangers, describe what that feels like. Well,
Speaker 1: I I often put it in basketball terms. Now I
Speaker 1: am tall enough and had enough hops in high school
Speaker 1: and college to dunk a basketball, And I mean I
Speaker 1: was only dunking in in high school games and in
Speaker 1: rec league and and intramural games. But it is exhilarating.
Speaker 1: And that's the closest I could say to making a
Speaker 1: room full of strangers laugh. But I will also say
Speaker 1: that everyone has, or almost everyone has had made their
Speaker 1: classroom laugh, or their coworkers laugh, or or more than
Speaker 1: even sometimes one person. It feels so great that to
Speaker 1: have a laugh, and and why it's been called the
Speaker 1: short insistence between two people I know, which is a
Speaker 1: Victor Borg of what that you you use as your motto,
Speaker 1: and I think it's a it's spot on because although
Speaker 1: there are other universal languages like food and perhaps beverage,
Speaker 1: I think laughter is the most fun. I mean, I
Speaker 1: just think it's the most one and it does do
Speaker 1: things to your brain um that they can recall years later.
Speaker 1: You can still get that same high off the one
Speaker 1: laugh you got, which I think is the beauty of
Speaker 1: a laugh. It's it's short lived, but it also has
Speaker 1: lasting power, certainly, And I think that. And I wrote
Speaker 1: down a bunch of notes and so I'll try to
Speaker 1: spread them out over the interview. But one thing I
Speaker 1: regarding regarding language that I was that I was thinking
Speaker 1: was that dogs will will turn over and show you
Speaker 1: their belly when when they don't want you to hurt them,
Speaker 1: and and to show that they're peaceful, and and they
Speaker 1: make themselves vulnerable. And I really think that that laughter
Speaker 1: is it is a similar similar technique to show people
Speaker 1: that you mean them no harm and also trying to
Speaker 1: trying to make somebody laugh, is it is another way
Speaker 1: to to say no, I'm I'm I'm here to to
Speaker 1: make you happy, and I like you. I mean, that's that's,
Speaker 1: that's what it always came down to for for me,
Speaker 1: especially outside of my own house. I recognized early on
Speaker 1: in my life that I could lighten them mood in
Speaker 1: my home, and I would. There was a reward from
Speaker 1: making my family laugh, and I found that I could
Speaker 1: I could use that in school and in my neighborhood.
Speaker 1: That that was my my way of of making friends
Speaker 1: and feeling feeling liked and and appreciated. And unfortunately I
Speaker 1: needed more than than just kids in the neighborhood. And
Speaker 1: I or or I found out how much better it
Speaker 1: feels to get a room full of strangers to laugh,
Speaker 1: very very early in my in my life and and
Speaker 1: and like a person who is is Jones, and I
Speaker 1: needed that. But but most people can can be satisfied
Speaker 1: and content with being this funny person or amongst their
Speaker 1: their friends. And I need to ask you if you
Speaker 1: found yourself at a young age, because I know how
Speaker 1: much you appreciate comedy and humor and you have good
Speaker 1: taste in it, if if only because you you enjoyed
Speaker 1: my work, I wonder if you like me, sort of
Speaker 1: arranged your life to be around funny people, and to
Speaker 1: that you sort of sought out the people who shared
Speaker 1: the same comedians, the same show as. For me, it
Speaker 1: was it was Saturday Night Live and and those those
Speaker 1: those characters on Saturday Night Lives. That that and Steve
Speaker 1: Martin was a big one when I was very young,
Speaker 1: when I was six or seven. He came up with
Speaker 1: those those albums, and the people who got past those
Speaker 1: and got the movies starring Bill Murray goes for the
Speaker 1: people I sought out, right, I surrounded myself with intentionally,
Speaker 1: and I was deliberate about it. Yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: one way to be happier is to just to be
Speaker 1: around funny people. They'll say that. And when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, it was the George Carlton records. My parents
Speaker 1: listen to that I didn't. I didn't really understand. They
Speaker 1: love Carlin. I could see that he was funny, but
Speaker 1: I was way over my head as a young kid.
Speaker 1: So it was the Little Rascals early early on, and
Speaker 1: then things like laughing the Carol Burnett Show. She was
Speaker 1: an acquaintance of my parents and so we would always
Speaker 1: watch her show and the sketch comedy of Harvey Korman
Speaker 1: and Tim Conway would have my brother and I rolling
Speaker 1: on the floor. And that was such an awesome shared
Speaker 1: experience with the family to have those laughs. And later
Speaker 1: on obviously the Steve Martin albums and things like that,
Speaker 1: but but yeah, just the power to share a laugh
Speaker 1: with your family and to make others laugh. I wasn't
Speaker 1: a professionally funny person, never have been, but I do
Speaker 1: remember Gary getting the very first laugh, and I was
Speaker 1: about seven years old. We lived in Illinois. I was
Speaker 1: into tall buildings. Is that funny Illinois? I guess maybe
Speaker 1: it is a funny place. So what's what's funny. What's
Speaker 1: funny to me is that you remember your first laugh,
Speaker 1: because I do too, And I think that's I think
Speaker 1: that's significant because we we everybody talks about how they
Speaker 1: remember when they had their first kiss, when they they
Speaker 1: got their first girlfriend, or or sex, of course their wedding,
Speaker 1: But the first laugh is is not something that. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's only a matter of time before there's a podcast
Speaker 1: discussing my first laugh or the first thing you laughed at,
Speaker 1: and and I think that's significant that you remember it,
Speaker 1: and I remember it. And it's only a sample of two,
Speaker 1: but I bet you a lot of people remember the
Speaker 1: first time they made everybody laugh, And the first time
Speaker 1: you probably laughed was for most people was probably a fart.
Speaker 1: But the first time that I gotta laugh, I was seven.
Speaker 1: I loved tall buildings. So we went into the John
Speaker 1: Hancock Building, which was second only to the Series Tower. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know with the win in Chicago, the John Handkick Building,
Speaker 1: and go up to the top view Chicago. Great experience.
Speaker 1: And now we get in the elevator to go down,
Speaker 1: and it's crowded with adults and I'm seven years old
Speaker 1: and I'm on on a high from seeing this view,
Speaker 1: and the elevator starts to go down quickly, and I
Speaker 1: get that feeling and I announced, in a very excitable,
Speaker 1: high pitched seven year old voice, I can feel it.
Speaker 1: I can feel it in my And there is kind
Speaker 1: of a pause, and the adults were looking at each other.
Speaker 1: Is it okay to laugh at this seven year old
Speaker 1: kid making a dick joke? And uh, it turns out
Speaker 1: that it was and they all laughed. And I didn't
Speaker 1: know what was funny about that. I was just expressing
Speaker 1: what I was experiencing, and I looked around and the
Speaker 1: elevator opens, they go out. They had a good story
Speaker 1: to tell, and my family had a story to tell
Speaker 1: to my great embarrassment, like for the next thirty years.
Speaker 1: But that was the first time I got to laugh.
Speaker 1: And it was it was like it was a high
Speaker 1: at seven years old. Wow, it is a high. And
Speaker 1: and I mine mine isn't as funny. But I remember
Speaker 1: my I was in first grade and the teacher asked
Speaker 1: what a chick was, and all the kids said a
Speaker 1: baby chicken. And then and I didn't know anything about timing,
Speaker 1: but I I just I just knew that I had
Speaker 1: to wait a moment. And then I said as loud
Speaker 1: as I could or a girl, and and everybody laughed,
Speaker 1: and and I was like, this is this is the life.
Speaker 1: This is the life. Everybody. I don't I don't know
Speaker 1: that anybody liked me, but it felt like everybody liked
Speaker 1: me after I after I said that, and the teacher
Speaker 1: tried to contain herself. It was, I mean, it's not
Speaker 1: as good as I can feel into my penis, but man,
Speaker 1: it it's uh, I'm I'm I don't know what your
Speaker 1: feeling was better? The one down below, or they're feeling
Speaker 1: at the laughter. But I it was I think it's
Speaker 1: the it's the forbidden laugh, right, It's the one where
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to have. I mean having many cases
Speaker 1: on the job where it's you get the office giggles
Speaker 1: and Herb Street and I will start laughing. Either it's
Speaker 1: on the set you just you cannot make eye contact,
Speaker 1: or it's over in the booth. We've had a few
Speaker 1: tightrope walks where it says we're on the edge of
Speaker 1: just falling off and not being able to continue a
Speaker 1: Most broadcasters who've been around for a while have those experiences.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's those forbidden laughs for you. You you
Speaker 1: know you're not supposed to but you and you better
Speaker 1: pull it back or or you're gonna get in trouble.
Speaker 1: Those somehow feel great. But it was also this approval
Speaker 1: that you got from your family and from strangers and
Speaker 1: and I remember in an interview George Carlin talked about
Speaker 1: how he was sort of addicted or in love with
Speaker 1: the feeling of feeling smart and and clever. Is any
Speaker 1: clever when the grown ups in his life and say,
Speaker 1: isn't he clever? And I think that's a that's a
Speaker 1: great that's a great feeling. And I bet you that
Speaker 1: there has to be some sort of evolutionary aspect of it.
Speaker 1: And that that brings me to another thing that I
Speaker 1: took down as a as a note, that that laughter
Speaker 1: is this incredible um release valve for for tension, and
Speaker 1: and we play on that as comedians and and building
Speaker 1: tension and releasing tension. But I think that's that's also
Speaker 1: why it's it's evolutionary important, evolutionarily important, and and why
Speaker 1: we we are are so drawn to people who who
Speaker 1: make us laugh. I mean, the thing that that that
Speaker 1: keeps coming back about Abraham Lincoln is is one his
Speaker 1: his melancholy but also his incredible world class wit and
Speaker 1: and humor. And and the same with with Mark Twain,
Speaker 1: who was another another dark, sort of melancholy person who's
Speaker 1: whose wit was just legendary. And and I think that
Speaker 1: there there aren't a lot of writers from that period
Speaker 1: who who hold up and who are still widely read
Speaker 1: and are still enjoyed by by people young and old.
Speaker 1: And I think Lincoln and Twain are two people and
Speaker 1: the bottom line was that they made people laugh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the darkness and the humor are probably intertwined
Speaker 1: in the minds of lots of people. We can get
Speaker 1: into more of that later. Why so many comics are
Speaker 1: are so tortured and have these considerable dark side as
Speaker 1: well as having the tremendous gift of lightness as well.
Speaker 1: I wanted to go back to the early lap because
Speaker 1: my wife, Jennifer is a partner in this production, and
Speaker 1: also obviously my my life partner talks about a laugh
Speaker 1: that she had as a third grader. It still makes
Speaker 1: her laugh almost I don't want data. Almost fifty years later,
Speaker 1: and in the neighborhood, they had this this girl named
Speaker 1: Florence who's a friend of hers, who fell down in
Speaker 1: her driveway and broke her leg. Don't ask me how,
Speaker 1: but she got one of those very heavy, you know,
Speaker 1: plaster of Paris casts. This is mid seventies circuits. So
Speaker 1: you go to school with your big cast on, and
Speaker 1: everybody tries to make you feel better by getting a
Speaker 1: pen out and signing the cast, and so you sign
Speaker 1: things like, oh what a bummer, Get better soon. And
Speaker 1: Jennifer took her turn to sign the cast and noticed
Speaker 1: that just before she had signed, her neighbor and friend
Speaker 1: in third grade, had signed the cast and written to
Speaker 1: this girl Florence, oh no, there goes flow on the cast,
Speaker 1: and that's an odd thing for her, great to write
Speaker 1: to make her feel better. And it turns out that
Speaker 1: the neighbor who wrote that it was Judd Apatown, the
Speaker 1: producer of your brilliant HBO special The Great Depression, And
Speaker 1: and Judd and Jennifer shared a backyard. He made her
Speaker 1: laugh a few times. He was funny even as a
Speaker 1: third grader. But she's still, fifty years later, will laugh
Speaker 1: at oh no, there goes flow. And and that's that's
Speaker 1: the power of a laugh that many years later, by
Speaker 1: the way, from a third grader, which is foretold, his
Speaker 1: his comedic talents. But Judge Judd had a great heart
Speaker 1: back then too, By the way, he built a house
Speaker 1: out of a cardboard box for Jennifer's pet turtle, cut
Speaker 1: a hole out and then put some plastic there so
Speaker 1: that the turtle would have a view out the window.
Speaker 1: That's the kind of heart that he had as a kid.
Speaker 1: So I thought i'd share that because you and he
Speaker 1: have a professional relationship. Yeah, well we've become friends and
Speaker 1: and he is really a thoughtful, kind, decent man and
Speaker 1: and my my Rabbi friend put it best when he said,
Speaker 1: Judd at is not in love with show business. He's
Speaker 1: in love with comedy and and that and that shows
Speaker 1: and I think that's what's why you. I respect that
Speaker 1: you are not only super smart and gift to be,
Speaker 1: you're a grinder. And I mean that is the highest compliment.
Speaker 1: You folks need to understand that Gary's choice of words
Speaker 1: meticulous specific, the right word and the right order. Obviously
Speaker 1: with the timing delivery any comics sweats that stuff. But
Speaker 1: your your love of words and your process and these
Speaker 1: bits that are months or years and the making. People
Speaker 1: have no idea what serious business laughter is. When it's
Speaker 1: it's broken down that way, I have just much respect.
Speaker 1: And where I learned about kind of your method and
Speaker 1: the patient approach that you've taken. Well, here's here's another
Speaker 1: thing that I wrote down to share with you, and
Speaker 1: I wanted I wanted to see if you get this
Speaker 1: feeling too. But there's there's the feeling when you get
Speaker 1: a laugh and it's excellency. But there's also this feeling
Speaker 1: now that I've I've gotten over the years and and
Speaker 1: since I first started to write down ideas for Joe.
Speaker 1: And it's that I get a similar feeling too when
Speaker 1: you solve a puzzle, whether it be a crossword puzzle
Speaker 1: or or one of these thinking puzzles or or riddles,
Speaker 1: there's a feeling in my head that when the right
Speaker 1: word or the right phrasing, or the right idea or
Speaker 1: analogy comes into my head, it feels so good. So
Speaker 1: that I'm sure you have this in sports, because sports
Speaker 1: is so often trying to relate an idea that people
Speaker 1: haven't experienced personally, and and make them understand what is
Speaker 1: what is going on here or the significance of things
Speaker 1: that maybe they hadn't they hadn't noticed in the observations
Speaker 1: and and and also you you have these moments on
Speaker 1: on college game day where you're waiting to weigh in
Speaker 1: and you must think of something and you think, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, this, I can't wait to say this. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to say this, and that feels really good.
Speaker 1: It's it's the the sort of the I wrote down
Speaker 1: what it what it felt like that it was that
Speaker 1: it was something sort of pre high that when you've
Speaker 1: ordered your meal and you you recognize what you ordered
Speaker 1: on your waiters tray and and you're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: that those the heat is they have to be for me,
Speaker 1: and they're about to arrive. And that's the feeling I
Speaker 1: get when I think of something and I can't wait
Speaker 1: to say that. And I wonder if you get that
Speaker 1: on on college game day or you or you have
Speaker 1: the perfect rejoinder to to Lee or or Kirk or
Speaker 1: or one of the other gentlemen on the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the pre high is a perfect way to
Speaker 1: put it. And you have to enjoy the pre highs
Speaker 1: and not just wait for the highs because if the
Speaker 1: process has to be enjoyable and fun. Game day wasn't
Speaker 1: formally scripted, but you obviously think about how you want
Speaker 1: to say things, and you have have little you have
Speaker 1: you have note cards just like what I'm using today.
Speaker 1: Here a little bullet points on there, and yeah, you
Speaker 1: would you would think of addle that do play well
Speaker 1: to those guys. There you go. My My, my penmanship
Speaker 1: is much better than yours, sir. By the way, what
Speaker 1: what you have on the page is smarter, but mine
Speaker 1: is more orderly, so that I have very very good penmanship.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think I would sit in
Speaker 1: my room on a Friday night, late late at night,
Speaker 1: because I'm not turnal, I only get a few hours
Speaker 1: sleep before game day when I when I did that show,
Speaker 1: I get a much better wake up call now just
Speaker 1: doing the games on Saturday night. But yeah, you would
Speaker 1: feel great because you're onto something that you knew would
Speaker 1: play well to them, but also to the eight or
Speaker 1: ten thousand kids behind you that had showed up to
Speaker 1: stare at the back of the heads on a Saturday morning,
Speaker 1: and they were probably hungover and tired or sleepless or whatever,
Speaker 1: and so you wanted to make them feel good. And
Speaker 1: playing to the live crowd and entertaining them was as
Speaker 1: close as you can get in TV to what what
Speaker 1: you go through. And that's why that was so much fun.
Speaker 1: If game they hadn't been a live show and you
Speaker 1: hadn't gotten that feedback where the audience was a character
Speaker 1: in the show, I'm sure I would have given her
Speaker 1: up a long time ago, because in a student just
Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't feel the same way your sports material. By
Speaker 1: the way, I have to say, this is is funny
Speaker 1: as anybody's ever It's I know, I know a lot
Speaker 1: of guys try it and they maybe have a line
Speaker 1: your entire bits, which folks must watch The Great Depression
Speaker 1: if you haven't yet on HBO, because a lot of
Speaker 1: it is devoted to sports. You as this the physically
Speaker 1: gifted but reluctant athlete. What I didn't realize was that
Speaker 1: my high school coach had sent videos of my games
Speaker 1: to a bunch of colleges, and then these college coaches
Speaker 1: came to my high school to recruit me to play
Speaker 1: for them, and I wound up accepting a scholarship to
Speaker 1: Boston College because the head coach of the Boston College
Speaker 1: Eagles football team two years prior, head coached Heisman Trophy
Speaker 1: winner Doug Flutie, and then two years later he was
Speaker 1: recruiting future Participation Trophy advocate Gary Goldman. I mean, I
Speaker 1: I love that you're you're, You're showed that vulnerable side.
Speaker 1: I also love that it's just really funny stuff about sports. Well, thanks.
Speaker 1: I remember when I was in in high school, everybody
Speaker 1: wanted to be like like Bosworth, Brian Bosworth. He was
Speaker 1: so aggressive, and he was so violent, and and he
Speaker 1: was so outspoken, and we all wanted to have that
Speaker 1: type of personality and and and aggressiveness and and I
Speaker 1: saw how people reacted to that, and I felt that
Speaker 1: that isn't me, and I hate myself because that isn't me.
Speaker 1: And it took me into my forties, which whenever it
Speaker 1: happens is great. I wish it didn't happen this this
Speaker 1: late to accept that I was never going to be
Speaker 1: an aggressive person, and I was going to be an
Speaker 1: athletic person, and who was going to let a lot
Speaker 1: of aggressive people down and a lot of really feisty, scrappy,
Speaker 1: smaller men down, and and to actually go out there
Speaker 1: and say this and then the audience not be turned
Speaker 1: off or boo me or I don't I don't know
Speaker 1: why I was so afraid to share this part of me,
Speaker 1: but it was much easier and that this will sound
Speaker 1: like hi perboly arm exaggerating. It was much easier for
Speaker 1: me to admit that I had spent weeks in the
Speaker 1: psych ward from my mental illness. Then it was to
Speaker 1: admit that I really didn't belong on a football field
Speaker 1: and I was overwhelmed by aggressive men, and that I
Speaker 1: still when when Coach Bicknell offered me a scholarship, I
Speaker 1: still had a blankie in my in my room that
Speaker 1: that I treasured and and it just didn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: And I think my drive to be a football star
Speaker 1: was based on being accepted by men's men, by the
Speaker 1: man's man, and there there's no bigger man's man than
Speaker 1: a than a college football coach, and he accepted me.
Speaker 1: And instead I should have been trying to find a
Speaker 1: way to accept myself as as a sensitive, timid young man.
Speaker 1: And and so I think I think the first therapy
Speaker 1: session I had in college and the first therapy session
Speaker 1: I had in my thirties with with my second therapist,
Speaker 1: I've had two excellent therapists in my life. They were
Speaker 1: basically telling me, why can't you accept yourself. I went
Speaker 1: to this this man named Dr Tom Guinness at Boston
Speaker 1: College who was part of the university counseling services, at
Speaker 1: the end of double sessions because I was I was
Speaker 1: breaking down, I wasn't eating, I wasn't sleeping. And I
Speaker 1: went to him and he said, why don't you just
Speaker 1: quit the football team? And I it was basically because
Speaker 1: I don't want to admit that I'm I'm a sensitive, timid,
Speaker 1: soft guy. And and that was what essentially, and it
Speaker 1: took us a year of meeting every every week to
Speaker 1: to finally say, okay, I I'm at least going to
Speaker 1: quit the football team. Whether I accept myself being a soft,
Speaker 1: timid person, I'm not going to torture myself every afternoon
Speaker 1: with this mandate on my on my manhood, this this
Speaker 1: referendum on my Did I say mandate, I meant referendum.
Speaker 1: I always confused it to a referendum on my my masculinity.
Speaker 1: So this got off the top of of laughter. But
Speaker 1: I will bring it back to that by saying this,
Speaker 1: the football team knew, every player knew that I could
Speaker 1: not be counted on to execute the plays we were given,
Speaker 1: but I could be counted on to make them doubled
Speaker 1: over in laughter on the sidelines, um during double sessions
Speaker 1: and during locker rooms and after meetings, and and that
Speaker 1: was how I survived that year of football. I was
Speaker 1: the funniest person on the on the team, and guys
Speaker 1: sought me out for impressions and observations and and good
Speaker 1: lines and and and that was how I That was
Speaker 1: how I showed my belly as a as a as
Speaker 1: a human being, and showed these guys that that please
Speaker 1: please don't point out to everyone that um I can't
Speaker 1: be relied on to to make a effective block on
Speaker 1: on alignment. Every team, every team needs a funny guy.
Speaker 1: So I even though it was torture for you, you
Speaker 1: probably could have had a four year career just playing
Speaker 1: that role if nothing else. But I understand why you.
Speaker 1: By the way, this was just ec in eight nine. Uh,
Speaker 1: just the post Doug Flutie. But but Glenn Foley was
Speaker 1: was your quarterback. There was a bunch of future NFL
Speaker 1: guys in that team. That was a big time program.
Speaker 1: You had a beautiful mullet in the team photo. Your
Speaker 1: shoulder pads like this, Why those those jumbo shoulder pads
Speaker 1: that were like double the size of what they wear now.
Speaker 1: So you looked a part, Gary, You looked the part,
Speaker 1: even though deep inside you you felt inadequate. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I always felt I said, I built this this
Speaker 1: very convancing real man costume through through through diligence. I Mean,
Speaker 1: the great thing about me as a as a as
Speaker 1: a player was that if you told me we need
Speaker 1: you to do these sprints and exercises all summer and
Speaker 1: lift these weights, I would do it, and and then
Speaker 1: I would get on the field, and there's something more
Speaker 1: than just being strong and and agile there which you
Speaker 1: had that rocky moment. I've heard you talk about the
Speaker 1: fact that you you trained your ass off, you built
Speaker 1: your body up, and you were ready to go. You
Speaker 1: ran up the steps and then you you did all
Speaker 1: this and then you got knocked out in the first round.
Speaker 1: But at least you had that rocky moment, man, where
Speaker 1: you knew you had done what you need to do
Speaker 1: to be ready. That's more than most of us have.
Speaker 1: So yes, they never tell the stories of the Rockies
Speaker 1: who get knocked out on the first punch, or or
Speaker 1: decide the night before that they're they're going to They're
Speaker 1: going to fake an intestinal illness Among comics. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you have the finest free throw form, right foot in front, neat,
Speaker 1: crouched eyes on the rim, tremendous follow through, and I
Speaker 1: know you're you're proud of your your free throw percentage,
Speaker 1: if nothing else about your basketball game when you play,
Speaker 1: which is very good. Yes, yes, yes, I I have
Speaker 1: always contended that that free throw percentage is a direct
Speaker 1: isn't direct from Porsche into childhood loneliness. I know what
Speaker 1: you mean is both admirable and terribly sad because it
Speaker 1: needs and you have been a lot of hours when
Speaker 1: nobody else is around doing the the solitary act, which
Speaker 1: would you which the action just stops and you kind
Speaker 1: of just stand there and shoot a ball. But you
Speaker 1: did it well. You did it well at least, thank you. Yes, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was also wondering. I wanted to ask you because
Speaker 1: they're they're they're all these difffferent types of laughs, and
Speaker 1: you've been working with these guys for decades and so
Speaker 1: and I have friends from comedy for decades. I have
Speaker 1: friends from my life literally from the time I was
Speaker 1: five or six years old. So there's the type of
Speaker 1: laugh you get when the set up to the to
Speaker 1: the punch line is and often the punch line is
Speaker 1: just mentioning somebody you've come across who looks like somebody
Speaker 1: from thirty years ago or acts like somebody from thirty
Speaker 1: years ago. You say that name, and the laugh is
Speaker 1: so dense and deep and long and and provokes other
Speaker 1: laughs and commentary and and it's so fulfilling, so that
Speaker 1: there's there that's a that's a difference, beautiful. I yeah,
Speaker 1: and I and I know comedian I know one in
Speaker 1: particular comedian who had been doing it for so long
Speaker 1: that he was relating to me the pitch and timber
Speaker 1: of of laughs and telling me what the predominating or
Speaker 1: or dominant gender of my laughs were on a certain night.
Speaker 1: And and I wonder, but I know the feeling of
Speaker 1: the laughs that I get when a friend of mine
Speaker 1: says something from when we were were five. And it
Speaker 1: can be as simple as saying, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: groceries at this store that closed thirty five years ago.
Speaker 1: And and I'm doubled over because I had forgotten that
Speaker 1: I even knew that he brings that up where she
Speaker 1: brings that up, and and and so I wonder if
Speaker 1: there there are things that that that the guys on
Speaker 1: your broadcast because you've you've been together so long, I mean,
Speaker 1: that must happen all the time. It does. They don't
Speaker 1: even have to be verbal, though, Gary, I mean, you
Speaker 1: know somebody so well, it's the twenty five year that
Speaker 1: I worked with Kirk herbsheet on Saturday, as I go
Speaker 1: back that long with Leek Corps. So but you know, Kirk,
Speaker 1: wo walk into the bus. They don't see them all week,
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's not even it's not even a word.
Speaker 1: It's just a look in the eye or the way
Speaker 1: that you do kind of the handshake, if it's like
Speaker 1: this serious, old white guy hand it could be something
Speaker 1: as simple as that, and we'll know what that means
Speaker 1: and we'll just start laughing and and no words are
Speaker 1: even needed. And that that's what's so cool when you
Speaker 1: have those relationships that are that are that long and
Speaker 1: that deep. I don't know your wife, shard as you say,
Speaker 1: not the shutda, but but a lovely your shut I mean,
Speaker 1: Jennifer and I have had so many laughs. They've been
Speaker 1: so important as a couple, helping you through really challenging
Speaker 1: tough times. And early on, before we were even married,
Speaker 1: she was out selecting venues for the reception. I was working,
Speaker 1: and she had spent that afternoon. And now we converge
Speaker 1: back at her apartment, which was in the Jefferson's building,
Speaker 1: the same building they used for the Jeffersons, and it
Speaker 1: was not a deluxe apartment in the sky. So we
Speaker 1: were back there together. She was telling me what her
Speaker 1: day was like and I was just trying to get
Speaker 1: to sleep, and then she gets up and has a
Speaker 1: violent episode of food poisoning. There was some bad food
Speaker 1: somewhere along the along the line there, and she gets up,
Speaker 1: and you know, the toilet was about five ft from
Speaker 1: where I was sleeping in bed, so it was hard
Speaker 1: to avoid it. And she's just wretching in there, and
Speaker 1: you know, she in the very kind of thin, weak voice,
Speaker 1: says to me, if you loved me, you'd you'd come
Speaker 1: hold my hair back. And I managed to come up
Speaker 1: with isn't that what rubber bands are for? So, which
Speaker 1: I was pretty proud of on the fly. And the
Speaker 1: beautiful thing about it is that even though she felt
Speaker 1: terrible and was pissed at me, she just burst out laughing.
Speaker 1: I mean, it made her feel a little bit better
Speaker 1: that I had been insensitive but come up with something
Speaker 1: funny to say in the moment. And we still laugh
Speaker 1: about that moment, even though she should have known then
Speaker 1: who she was marrying. I'm gonna try to make you laugh,
Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna hold your hair back ever when
Speaker 1: you're throwing up. Yeah, Oh that's great. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think about the laughter, and I was thinking about
Speaker 1: laughter in particular in that she's she's not an easy
Speaker 1: laugh and she also has to like you to laugh
Speaker 1: at what you're saying. So I think from the from
Speaker 1: the very beginning, making her laugh was was very rewarding
Speaker 1: because she she has a high threshold. She's not she's
Speaker 1: a generous laugher, but she's not an easy laugh to
Speaker 1: to get. And but when she does laugh, she she
Speaker 1: enjoys it so much. And I also have found that
Speaker 1: there's never been a case where I have I don't
Speaker 1: try out jokes on her, but sometimes I'll say, what
Speaker 1: do you think of this? So I guess that is
Speaker 1: trying jokes on her, but I tell her that I'm
Speaker 1: trying out the joke on her, what do you think
Speaker 1: of this? And if she laughs, I have never had
Speaker 1: a case where the audience didn't also laugh at that.
Speaker 1: And and so that's really important. And I was, I was.
Speaker 1: There were two things that I that I thought of
Speaker 1: earlier that that because of the popularity of College Game
Speaker 1: Day and just for the fact that it started at
Speaker 1: a half hour now it lasts for for hours. I yeah,
Speaker 1: but part of it is that it's a very funny
Speaker 1: show to watch. And I also think about the NBA
Speaker 1: with with Charles and and Kenny and Shack and and Ernie,
Speaker 1: and that's a very funny show. And it's it's the
Speaker 1: most popular obviously NBA broadcast and one of the more
Speaker 1: popular sports broadcasts. And and and it's not I'm I'm
Speaker 1: a I'm a terrible snob when it comes to comedy.
Speaker 1: It's not dumb comedy that you guys are doing. It's
Speaker 1: not cheap, and it's it's not easy laughs or cruel
Speaker 1: or anything like that. And and that laughter that people
Speaker 1: are getting is is the reason why it's popular and
Speaker 1: the reason why it's six usful. And it shows you
Speaker 1: how significant laughter is two people, and and how sports
Speaker 1: has evolved over the years, and and and the broadcasting
Speaker 1: is at it's at its best, and that the color
Speaker 1: is more colorful than than ever and and I think
Speaker 1: that's significant as far as the importance of laughter. The
Speaker 1: other thing I was I was thinking of is that
Speaker 1: is that we're also drawn to people who it's they're
Speaker 1: generous with their their laughter, and we're also put off
Speaker 1: by people whose laughter is is too easy. And and
Speaker 1: we see that somebody laughs at something that really isn't
Speaker 1: that great, and we decide in our heads, well, they'll
Speaker 1: laugh at anything, and it's it's it's it's not that
Speaker 1: big of a reward to make them them laugh. And
Speaker 1: I also know from sitting at this this comedy table
Speaker 1: in in the village of the comedy seller, where all
Speaker 1: the comedians sit around, there are some guys who you're
Speaker 1: never going to laugh, and they are asserting their dominance
Speaker 1: by not laughing at anyone and and it's infuriating and
Speaker 1: and I would rather not sit at the table than
Speaker 1: be around these people who are who are being who
Speaker 1: are bullying you by by not laughing, or just making
Speaker 1: you feel so insecure and so unloved by by not laughing.
Speaker 1: And I think, I mean, that's the that's the thing
Speaker 1: that I noticed on on Barkley's broadcast and on your broadcast,
Speaker 1: is that the guys are are are very generous with
Speaker 1: their their laughter. Getting people to laugh though that you
Speaker 1: find funny has just been a high for me. Not
Speaker 1: that I've been at that often, but in speeches and
Speaker 1: in banquets things like that, Um, I want to say,
Speaker 1: Martin short laugh. In an Excella express, it was an
Speaker 1: elderly passenger who was confused about yeah, and he's a
Speaker 1: genius and we're we're on this train, and this elderly
Speaker 1: passenger was confused about which bag is hers, and with
Speaker 1: help of a order, she just starts grabbing everybody's luggage
Speaker 1: and and I and I'm just kind of like stage
Speaker 1: was her. Yeah, sure, lady, take him, take them all
Speaker 1: And Martin Short burst out laughing. Not that funny in line,
Speaker 1: but the fact that Martin Short laughed at that, I've
Speaker 1: never forgotten it. Robin Williams, the guy that I was
Speaker 1: very grateful to know a little bit and spend some
Speaker 1: time with um. When I made him laugh and all
Speaker 1: out belly laugh, I think that I can still feel that,
Speaker 1: I can still feel that high. And it's been I
Speaker 1: don't know, fifteen years or something. Yeah, it feels so good.
Speaker 1: And also he's heard everything and you were able to
Speaker 1: to get something and that made him laugh. It's a
Speaker 1: tremendous accomplishment. And I also think about how you're more
Speaker 1: creative comedically when you're around people who are are laughers,
Speaker 1: who are generous with their laughs. We feel funny around,
Speaker 1: and that that was actually one of my tips, to
Speaker 1: to seek out and spend time and call people you
Speaker 1: feel funny around. Because a lot of the the germs
Speaker 1: of of an act and the germs of your voice
Speaker 1: come from from that encouragement. I mean, that's the other
Speaker 1: thing is that the laughter isn't encouraging when that when
Speaker 1: that teacher laughed when I said chick, and when when
Speaker 1: you got your your penis laugh on the on the elevant,
Speaker 1: they're encouraging you. They're saying you are are clever, we
Speaker 1: we like you, and it and it's it's priceless, really,
Speaker 1: it's it's so intoxicating. And I can't wait to hear
Speaker 1: what your your friend Dr Roll is it yeah, said
Speaker 1: says about the the the chemical and and the the
Speaker 1: the internal mechanisms of laughter and what's going on, because
Speaker 1: because something this fulfilling and energizing, that's the other thing
Speaker 1: that that Remember that this Smiths I was I was
Speaker 1: with I go to S's house for for Christmas, and
Speaker 1: I was with a lot of people that I didn't know,
Speaker 1: and and I was was very quiet and I was
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say anxious, but I was like, oh, this
Speaker 1: this is um. I don't feel very energized right now.
Speaker 1: And then I said something and everybody laughed, and I
Speaker 1: was off to the races. I had that one of
Speaker 1: my favorite Christmas is and we we we They just
Speaker 1: said that at that point, Oh, we accept you, we
Speaker 1: accept you, You're you're one of us now. And and
Speaker 1: so I think it's it's it's this this incredible introduction
Speaker 1: that that you can make for your for yourself by
Speaker 1: being funny or or laughing at somebody who is trying
Speaker 1: to be to be funny. And and it's yeah, that
Speaker 1: that and and also energy, which which we're always searching
Speaker 1: for when we're tired, and and and it almost makes
Speaker 1: you feel bad that this is all I needed was
Speaker 1: to was to have somebody laugh at me for for
Speaker 1: me to sit up straighter and and to be more
Speaker 1: engaged and to to speak with more force. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's really interesting laughter as much needed energy, especially
Speaker 1: important these days. Gary was so generous opening up about
Speaker 1: his struggles that he's going to be part of a
Speaker 1: separate future episode focusing on depression and anxiety. You can
Speaker 1: follow him on Twitter at Gary Gulman, where he once
Speaker 1: offered three six straight days of joke writing tips. Next up,
Speaker 1: one of the true scholar athletes that have ever covered
Speaker 1: Byron Royal was a star defensive back at Florida's State
Speaker 1: earned a Rhodes Scholarship the same day he played in
Speaker 1: a seminal win these days. Dr Myron Roll. It was
Speaker 1: a neurosurgery resident in Massachusetts General, so he's an authority
Speaker 1: on how laughter does wonders for our brains and nervous
Speaker 1: systems and even immune systems. Well, Myrons, to watch your
Speaker 1: path from f s U seminal where I covered some
Speaker 1: of your games, to the Rhodes scholarship, to Oxford to
Speaker 1: the NFL to a career of neurosurgery has just been amazing. UM,
Speaker 1: thanks for making some time in a very busy schedule today.
Speaker 1: Appreciate it, no problem. Thanks for having me. Now, maybe
Speaker 1: laughter and Myron Roll would not be linked in the
Speaker 1: minds of a lot of people. In the same sentence,
Speaker 1: you tell tell me why they could be linked those
Speaker 1: two things. Well, h neurosurgery for one, uh is UM.
Speaker 1: You know obviously the study of the brain and the
Speaker 1: nervous system central and profill nervous system. And there's been
Speaker 1: so many different scientific discoveries and we're still actually working
Speaker 1: through it. UM. Where Laft to Germans from UM and
Speaker 1: you know in our fields there's UM you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of crossover between laughter and what it means the
Speaker 1: evokes emotions how laughter can be associated with seizures, it
Speaker 1: can be pathological. Um. And then obviously just the intensity
Speaker 1: that comes with being a neurosurgeon working on the brain
Speaker 1: and spine some very intense moments. Um. Sometimes laughter is
Speaker 1: probably the best thing that we can do is sort
Speaker 1: of alleviate some of that pressure and even give it
Speaker 1: to our patients to allow them to cope through some
Speaker 1: of the things that they're dealing within their family. So
Speaker 1: it plays an important role. Maybe not the first thing
Speaker 1: that comes to mind, but uh, in my field and
Speaker 1: my work, every single day I experience it, and it's
Speaker 1: been helpful for sure. But I definitely dive into that
Speaker 1: why people call laughter such a good medicine, fast acting medicine.
Speaker 1: But let's back up. What role has has laughter played
Speaker 1: in your life? From being the youngest of a group
Speaker 1: of five brothers, being an athlete in a high pressure situation, UM,
Speaker 1: growing up, remember good laughs to your brothers. Remember trying
Speaker 1: make your brother's laugh so they wouldn't beat you up.
Speaker 1: That's often the younger brother role, trying to if you
Speaker 1: can't be the biggest and strongest, you could be the
Speaker 1: most entertaining. It be funny, that's right, Absolutely, you know,
Speaker 1: our family came from the Bahamas, and I would grow
Speaker 1: up in New Jersey and I'm the last of five boys,
Speaker 1: and I remember, uh, you know, specific moments of my
Speaker 1: childhood adolescent years with my brothers, mostly tied to and
Speaker 1: connected to humorous and and um you know, comedic moments, right. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, when when we're playing with each other, or
Speaker 1: there's something that funny that happened on TV, a moment
Speaker 1: that we always recall. It's a lot of times associated
Speaker 1: with with laughter and the feeling that comes from that experience.
Speaker 1: Even to this day, we have zoom calls on Sunday
Speaker 1: where we just talk about moments of our childhood and
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, there's some sad moments that come up,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, the positive and the eu
Speaker 1: fok feelings that you experience in some of the events
Speaker 1: together are associated, uh and sort of revolve around laughter.
Speaker 1: So I think for me as the youngest of five boys, um,
Speaker 1: you know, remembering some of those uh you know games
Speaker 1: that we played in the front yard. Uh and how
Speaker 1: you know my older brother would go up to catch
Speaker 1: a pass one time and and he got sort of undercut.
Speaker 1: He flipped over and he fell and he made this incredible,
Speaker 1: weird noise that we still remember to this day. Who
Speaker 1: were busting out last thing. My parents came out and
Speaker 1: thought something went wrong, but we all were just cackling
Speaker 1: on the ground. Again a moment that we'll never forget.
Speaker 1: That I'll pass on to my children when they come
Speaker 1: in this world one day and again associated around laughter
Speaker 1: and humorous events. It was really great. That's what's amazing.
Speaker 1: You can have a laugh with with siblings and you
Speaker 1: immediately returned to the age that you were when you
Speaker 1: had that. I've talked to families about that, and it's
Speaker 1: a great thing that you guys get on the zoom
Speaker 1: calls and still share those moments. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that when we see little kids laugh, it's they have
Speaker 1: hundreds of laughs today. And as we get older and
Speaker 1: adults get serious and lives get heavier, we have to
Speaker 1: kind of relearn how to laugh the kind of things
Speaker 1: that you and your brothers were having some naturally when
Speaker 1: your kids absolutely, yeah, no question, you know. You know, obviously,
Speaker 1: the the burdens and stress of life do come as
Speaker 1: you get older. You have more responsibilities, more accountability. Uh,
Speaker 1: you start to things start become a little bit more
Speaker 1: real for you. Um, you know, you're not living sort
Speaker 1: of this fantastical, quixotic disneyland of a life, right and
Speaker 1: and uh and so sometimes you lose sight of, um,
Speaker 1: the laughter and the joys and the moments within moments
Speaker 1: and as children is just pure, it's innocent, and it
Speaker 1: just comes. And for my brothers and I, we experienced that,
Speaker 1: we loved it. We try to hold onto that, and
Speaker 1: that's why we try to recall it as much as
Speaker 1: possible because we understand that once we get out of
Speaker 1: those zoom calls and get out of those moments, it's
Speaker 1: back to you know, trying to operate on brains from
Speaker 1: me and my brother being an educator, going back into
Speaker 1: the classroom and working through some of the difficulties with
Speaker 1: his students, and just the normal daily lives and the
Speaker 1: rigamarole that we have to go through. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the memories are service sort of an escape away from
Speaker 1: the realities that you deal with every day. So you
Speaker 1: go from the games with your brothers in the yard
Speaker 1: to a very pressurized situation at Florida State where, like
Speaker 1: a lot of schools, football is a very big business,
Speaker 1: very serious business. People don't always associate that kind of
Speaker 1: sports environment with laughter, But what role as it played
Speaker 1: as an athlete, whether it's in the locker room, in
Speaker 1: the huddle, just to get you through, um, you know,
Speaker 1: the physical and mental stress of playing big time football, Well, Chris.
Speaker 1: For me, I think laughter helped with trying to aggreciate
Speaker 1: myself with my teammates. I came from a prep school
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, the Hunts School at Princeton. You know,
Speaker 1: I learned about Bill Bradley trying to be a road
Speaker 1: scholar there. I was tucking my shirt and my pants,
Speaker 1: I had glasses, I spoke differently on event. And then
Speaker 1: I go down the Florida States Tallahassee, where my teammates
Speaker 1: are listening to Rick Ross and had dread pots of
Speaker 1: gold teeth and saying words like jit and you know,
Speaker 1: drinking sweet tea country fried steak. I mean, the whole
Speaker 1: culture was different. It was a shock to my system.
Speaker 1: And then trying to be familiar with these guys and
Speaker 1: trying to sort of, um, you know, aggreciate my stuff
Speaker 1: with them was difficult, right. I mean, I'm coming from
Speaker 1: a different world prep school down to this rugged Tallahassee.
Speaker 1: You know, they called Florida State the criminals at one point.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were um and we were looked at
Speaker 1: sometimes being thugs and just hard guys. And you know,
Speaker 1: my teammates were coming from these very disenfranchised and poor
Speaker 1: neighborhoods and had a different way of life, from different vernacular.
Speaker 1: So for me to find the common ground between me
Speaker 1: and then it was laughter. It was things that we
Speaker 1: found to be funny, found to be you know, light
Speaker 1: and away from the stress of our home life, for
Speaker 1: our different cultural colloquialisms or things like that, because I
Speaker 1: mean laughter at your own expense. Sometimes because you're looking
Speaker 1: at you, I think, what language is this guy speaking
Speaker 1: and you're trying to you're trying to bridge it with
Speaker 1: the lap but maybe you get you gotta make yourself
Speaker 1: the bottle of the joke sometimes right when you try
Speaker 1: to get in with the group, no question, you have
Speaker 1: to uh. And you know, I remember one time one
Speaker 1: of my teammates, you know, asked me if I had
Speaker 1: if I had a jet or an old lady And
Speaker 1: I said, first I was like bacteria or is that
Speaker 1: a car? Like I don't know what that is? And
Speaker 1: then I was like, okay, I got a mother but no.
Speaker 1: He was asking if I had a son and if
Speaker 1: I had a girlfriend, didn't an old lady, And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my gods, and they started busting out
Speaker 1: laughing at me. So yeah, they were laughing at me.
Speaker 1: But then eventually I realized, Okay, we both liked the
Speaker 1: show Martin right a sitcom. You both like Fresh Prince
Speaker 1: of bel Air. So if I could recite some of
Speaker 1: the jokes from Martin Lawrence, or from Will Smith or
Speaker 1: from Coming to America, some of the funny movies they like, uh,
Speaker 1: and key moments and put it in like ran the
Speaker 1: right time, the guys will start laughing. They oh, this
Speaker 1: guy is kind of cool, you know, he's not like
Speaker 1: a square. He can kind of get along with us.
Speaker 1: So that was helpful for me. And Uh, it kind
Speaker 1: of got us through and I think bridge that gap
Speaker 1: between the cultural difference between me and then for sure
Speaker 1: you have the short assistance between two people. That's what
Speaker 1: that's what laughter has been called at you talk about
Speaker 1: team building bonding. I think there's a way we'll get
Speaker 1: to the brain chemistry of it. But it releases inhibitions,
Speaker 1: immediately breaks things down when when people are sharing a laugh,
Speaker 1: I mean for me, it's been very important and sparking
Speaker 1: a romance a kind of a shared laugh. You have
Speaker 1: the shared laugh in the first date, probably going to
Speaker 1: be a second date or a third date if it's
Speaker 1: a good enough laugh. And I think that just as
Speaker 1: as couple as you evolve, laughter is so important. You know,
Speaker 1: day to day the high pressure stuff that you begin
Speaker 1: to get into when your medical career blossoms, and and
Speaker 1: that is that is very serious business. But give us
Speaker 1: a sense because I think it would surprise people, not
Speaker 1: just on the front lines of the fight against COVID
Speaker 1: night Tune, which you played a part, but just average
Speaker 1: days in hospitals. There's always more humor and more laughter,
Speaker 1: I think than people realize behind the scenes. Definitely, absolutely, uh.
Speaker 1: You know, especially in neurosurgery where the outcomes could be
Speaker 1: fatal and it could be terminal. Right, you know, we
Speaker 1: have a lot of patients who expire and pass on
Speaker 1: our service, and you have to have these conversations with
Speaker 1: family members, you have to have conversations with the medical
Speaker 1: examiners office corner. I mean, it's legit, it's real, uh.
Speaker 1: And these are heavy and can certainly way you down,
Speaker 1: bog you down, and really put a black cloud over you.
Speaker 1: But in order to sort of get through that, my
Speaker 1: colleagues and I are nurse practitioners, are physician assistants. We
Speaker 1: share good moments, we share laughter, we share comedic events,
Speaker 1: and we try to make make light of certain things
Speaker 1: so that we're able to sort of get through. It's
Speaker 1: a way for us to cope with these very difficult situations,
Speaker 1: as a way for us a sort of recenter. You
Speaker 1: sort of shake off the stress and the you know,
Speaker 1: the seriousness of of your day to day life. We
Speaker 1: all know that, right, We've got that down as a
Speaker 1: part of it. We signed up for this, yes, But
Speaker 1: then if there's a moment where we can just sort
Speaker 1: of take a break and have to add some brevity
Speaker 1: um to the whole situation, Uh, that could that could
Speaker 1: be helpful for us, and so um. I remember in
Speaker 1: the operating room when there was a six hour surgery
Speaker 1: we're working on a brain tumor. Took off the bone,
Speaker 1: open up the maninjis got down to the brain tumor.
Speaker 1: Very difficult, very trying. You know, it was hard to
Speaker 1: get the vessels off of the brain, sorry out for
Speaker 1: the tumor. Because if you just yanked on the tumor,
Speaker 1: then the vessel will come everything will be terrenually bleeding.
Speaker 1: And so we took a break and took a pause,
Speaker 1: and I remember our attending telling us a joke that
Speaker 1: he heard from like a weird tape that he was
Speaker 1: listening to a couple of days ago, and it just
Speaker 1: like shocked us. It was such a pressure moment, and
Speaker 1: we're like, really, this is what they're gonna say right now,
Speaker 1: and we all just started laughing and like, you know,
Speaker 1: put our head down, and man, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1: But that was the moment of re centering and sort
Speaker 1: of getting us all back on the same page that
Speaker 1: we needed. We finished the case and everything went well.
Speaker 1: The patient will woke up and went home two days
Speaker 1: later and we had no complications, So you know, it
Speaker 1: definitely works in our field. Yeah, there's wisdom and that
Speaker 1: an understanding that having a laugh, pausing for humor doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily destroy the focus of working on a very detailed,
Speaker 1: difficult job and then ruined the performance. That can actually
Speaker 1: have the opposite effect. And I think that it's sometimes
Speaker 1: hard for football coaches to back up to Florida State.
Speaker 1: I don't know that Bobby Bowden is considered the funniest guy.
Speaker 1: I mean, people would have laughs uninten what he didn't know.
Speaker 1: But did did coaches understand that? Cause you talked about
Speaker 1: the teammates getting together, But the authority figures in football,
Speaker 1: whether it was there or the NFL, sort of understand
Speaker 1: that when players are joking around, it's not the worst
Speaker 1: thing in the world. Wow, that's a great point, Chris.
Speaker 1: I honestly, I think sometimes it's generational, man, I really do.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, like you said, coach Bowt and
Speaker 1: then Cook Mickey Andrews also from Alabama. These guys are
Speaker 1: old school Paul Bear Bryant guys, and you know, you're
Speaker 1: laughing all the time. They're like, well, why aren't you
Speaker 1: taking this seriously? But for us, you know, it was
Speaker 1: our way of getting through. And so when coaches were
Speaker 1: able to sort of put their their mindset into the
Speaker 1: life of a millennial, right into the life of a
Speaker 1: younger their player, I think they were more effective. I
Speaker 1: think that's what you're seeing in Clemson. I feel like
Speaker 1: you have a coach there and their head coach Sweeney,
Speaker 1: who was able to laugh and joke and maybe do
Speaker 1: the crazy dances with the players. That it's me if
Speaker 1: I'm a recruit seeing a coach sort of get down
Speaker 1: and like be light like that and laugh, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's amazing to me. That's like, Okay, he's on our
Speaker 1: level and he understands us. He or sheet right. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I think coach Andrews and coach Batten they were
Speaker 1: a little bit disconnected from that, just based on age
Speaker 1: and how they grew up and where they're coaching philosophy
Speaker 1: came from. But some of our younger coaches, Jimbo Fisher,
Speaker 1: when he was our offensive point there, he was able
Speaker 1: to sort of come down and laugh with us and
Speaker 1: be there with us, and that was helpful. I think
Speaker 1: you're seeing coaches picking in college at the at the
Speaker 1: younger generations understand that innately trying to connect with the players,
Speaker 1: trying to break the tension. And if you're not dancing
Speaker 1: around in the locker room, if you're not cracking a joke,
Speaker 1: if you're trying to be serious all the time, then
Speaker 1: you're not connecting. I don't think with the with the
Speaker 1: current athletes, I think they're they're even if they're not
Speaker 1: funny themselves. You're trying to find a way to sort
Speaker 1: of inject some laughter in all that. As I'll add
Speaker 1: to that to Chris, I think that, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I've been watching this the documentary on Michael Jordan's The
Speaker 1: Last Dance and seeing you know, his leadership style and
Speaker 1: sort of thinking through like how I lead or how
Speaker 1: I would potentially lead versus how he leads and how
Speaker 1: their leaders lead, you know, and you think to some
Speaker 1: of those comments that were made in his documentary that
Speaker 1: you know he was a mean guy, or maybe he
Speaker 1: was just so focused, so driven. We never saw Michael
Speaker 1: let up. He was so intense all the time. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I guess that lets me leads me to
Speaker 1: believe that, you know, if you have amazing, immaculate talent
Speaker 1: and you have a certain leadership style and people buy
Speaker 1: into that, that it could work. But for me personally,
Speaker 1: I just I couldn't see myself leading a group of
Speaker 1: you know, grown men who all were talented enough to
Speaker 1: get to this level, um in a way where it
Speaker 1: was sort of fearful and you so you had to
Speaker 1: drive a stake into him. I think I would share
Speaker 1: laughter with those guys. I think I would have those
Speaker 1: moments because I wanted them to see me as a human,
Speaker 1: as someone like them, uh not, so not disconnect. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying Mike didn't have those experiences, but I
Speaker 1: think the what I got from it, the portrayal that
Speaker 1: I got from you know, his documentary was that he
Speaker 1: was he was tough. He drove a hard line and
Speaker 1: if you didn't fall in line, then you have to
Speaker 1: move away and move off of that line because he
Speaker 1: was getting some where and obviously works because he was
Speaker 1: you know, one six championships was grants of all time.
Speaker 1: So there was some good behind the scenes stuff in
Speaker 1: the documentary, and there was some laughter, but usually was
Speaker 1: laughter by Michael at other guy's expense. It didn't go
Speaker 1: the other way too often. You notice that. And there
Speaker 1: were very few people, i think in that circle I've
Speaker 1: spent a little time with him, very few people who
Speaker 1: would be gutsy enough to try to dig at him
Speaker 1: and get it and give it back to him and
Speaker 1: make him laugh. There's a few guys in his inner
Speaker 1: circle that can do that, and I think he respected
Speaker 1: guys who could. But you're right, the teammates are not
Speaker 1: really in a position to try to cross him in
Speaker 1: that way. So so you go to Oxford. And again
Speaker 1: you're trying to bridge differences coming from Tallahassee, coming from
Speaker 1: the States, but your background quite different than those uh
Speaker 1: many other students who come from all over the place
Speaker 1: and are studying there. How do humor help bridge that
Speaker 1: situation or maybe ease whatever tension you had stepping into
Speaker 1: the uh story campus of Oxford. Yeah. So I was
Speaker 1: uh intentionally trying to be careful, uh, not to be um,
Speaker 1: you know, to humorous when I went there, because I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, they don't they don't think of me
Speaker 1: as a serious um Oxford students, right, Uh, coming from
Speaker 1: the States, being a big open city, you're trying to
Speaker 1: be mr serious like exactly exactly. These people are leading
Speaker 1: with their intellectual capital, and they're leading with their scientific
Speaker 1: discoveries and their research. And here is this big, hulking
Speaker 1: football player from America leading with some humor. So I
Speaker 1: was very conscientious of it at first, but eventually I said,
Speaker 1: you know, I had to be myself. You know, I
Speaker 1: have to be who I am, or else is gonna
Speaker 1: feel inorganic and you know, unnatural and feel uncomfortable. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so it wasn't until this friend of mine, her
Speaker 1: name is Aisha sad she's a Muslim woman. Where's a
Speaker 1: hej from Carry, North Carolina, went to USC Chapel Hill
Speaker 1: and was a rood scholar with me who sat down
Speaker 1: with me at breakfast one time. It was like mine,
Speaker 1: you know, I know you're trying to fit in here.
Speaker 1: I know assimilation is difficult for you here for me
Speaker 1: to write, I'm a Muslim woman coming here, you're a
Speaker 1: black man coming here. But we have to be who
Speaker 1: we are. Uh. They chose us for a reason. And
Speaker 1: and so from that point forward, you know, I wasn't
Speaker 1: trying to bend towards anyone else. I was told, hey,
Speaker 1: you want to if if you accept me in this culture,
Speaker 1: in the society, uh, then you should come to where
Speaker 1: I am because I'm gonna be exactly who I am
Speaker 1: and who they wanted through this road scholarshar process. And
Speaker 1: at that point I'm not sure if anything changed on
Speaker 1: their end, but I know for me, my my opening,
Speaker 1: my perspective, uh really just it just took off because
Speaker 1: I was able to enjoy my time there. I was
Speaker 1: able to laugh my friends, I was able to be
Speaker 1: who I was with Aisha and other Rhodes scholars and
Speaker 1: other people I met at Oxford and it made the
Speaker 1: whole experience enjoyable for sure, and that allowed me to
Speaker 1: build friendships with people from all over the world Lusaka, Zambia,
Speaker 1: from Perth, Australia, Cairo, Egypt. Just have so many connections
Speaker 1: because I was who I was, I shared my personality
Speaker 1: and through my personality came laughter and humorous events and
Speaker 1: it was great without being overly clinical. Why does a good,
Speaker 1: long deep laugh feel so damn good to the brain
Speaker 1: and the nervous system. Well, uh so, okay, let me
Speaker 1: let me try to be not overly clinical, because I
Speaker 1: do love the brain as you know, for a long time,
Speaker 1: you know, as pendicol as you want. But maybe don't
Speaker 1: don't leave us more confused. And we were before you
Speaker 1: started talking, all right. So let's so, there's there's a
Speaker 1: part of the brain UM that is responsible for involuntary
Speaker 1: laughter that somehow connected to emotion UM. And when you
Speaker 1: experience emotion, so it doesn't have to be just hearing.
Speaker 1: It could be seeing, it could be feeling, it could
Speaker 1: be touched. Um. You know, any sense that you have
Speaker 1: where you're outside world is perceived as emotionally driven. This
Speaker 1: part of the brain is sort of in the middle
Speaker 1: part towards the temporal lobes sort of on the side here,
Speaker 1: this sort of gets activated and it transmit a pathway
Speaker 1: down to the brain stem, which is basically the center
Speaker 1: of who we are, our existence in the central nervous system. Uh.
Speaker 1: That gets processed there and then it the response from
Speaker 1: the brain stem is changes, uh in our autonomic functions.
Speaker 1: So what does that mean? That means your heart rate
Speaker 1: starts raising a little bit faster, means you may start sweating,
Speaker 1: means the lack of one ducks may start going, you
Speaker 1: start crying, you know, and you have those belly laughters
Speaker 1: and like all the tears come out because and you
Speaker 1: can't control You're like, why why are tears coming out? Well,
Speaker 1: it's all sort of driven from the same area. Your
Speaker 1: respiratory um status starts increasing a little bit obviously, start
Speaker 1: breathing more, breathing differently in between laughs. Uh. And then
Speaker 1: also facial expression because you had mentioned earlier. Uh, this
Speaker 1: is also controlled from the brain stem in that central
Speaker 1: processing area. So a lot of times when people laugh,
Speaker 1: they just have people say they face lights up as
Speaker 1: the muscles of their face just starts to sort of
Speaker 1: open up and eyes wide and and things like that.
Speaker 1: So you know, the brain is is amazing where it
Speaker 1: connects all these different parts of our bodies to show
Speaker 1: the response that um, you've proceived from this humorous memory events,
Speaker 1: this feeling, this emotion. And that's one pathway of laughter.
Speaker 1: Then there's other pathways of laughter that you know, our
Speaker 1: aren't really associated with emotion. Another one is laughing gas
Speaker 1: for instance, right, you don't you know, experiencing laughing gas,
Speaker 1: but you just get that and then well, boom, off
Speaker 1: a sudden you start laughing. We've had a patience who
Speaker 1: we stimulated their brain because we're trying to operate around
Speaker 1: a certain tumor. We want to make sure we're not
Speaker 1: hitting the language functions and they start laughing in the
Speaker 1: operating room because they are awakes still. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: and as I mentioned, sometimes seizures are classified as being
Speaker 1: gelastic seizures when you know, associated with laughing being pathological.
Speaker 1: So uh, those are a different category. But the one
Speaker 1: we're talking about and the one evoked by emotion, uh
Speaker 1: starts their process to the top of the brain in
Speaker 1: the central part, down to the brain stem and it
Speaker 1: comes out that way and it's a it's amazing, beautiful
Speaker 1: network when it's all done. For sure, Yeah, it is beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's amazing how fast it happens, and amazing if you
Speaker 1: believe studies, how long lasting the effects are. We know
Speaker 1: it improves mood and can release stress and all that,
Speaker 1: but the ability to reduce pain, to boost your immune system.
Speaker 1: You live longer if you laugh a little bit more
Speaker 1: often than than the average person, which I think is
Speaker 1: that's what proof right there that the value of laughter.
Speaker 1: Is there a particular moment in this this you know,
Speaker 1: grizzly heroic fight against COVID nineteen, when the shifts are
Speaker 1: just amazing, folks yourself included working marathon shifts where a
Speaker 1: long laugh has gotten you through one of those shifts
Speaker 1: or or giving you the energy to come back and
Speaker 1: and you know, rejoined the battle. Yes, there has. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, seeing some of my colleagues, um talking with them. Uh,
Speaker 1: we talked about how taking the stress of COVID nineteen
Speaker 1: home with us is hard. You know, we talked to
Speaker 1: our families. They want to know all the stories about
Speaker 1: the patients, what's going on, because they're hearing about it
Speaker 1: on TV. And then they see you come home and well,
Speaker 1: what's really happening on the front lines. It's really happening
Speaker 1: in the hospital. I'm remember speaking to my wife and
Speaker 1: talking to her on FaceTime actually, and you know, explaining
Speaker 1: to her about some of the uh, the patients that
Speaker 1: I was dealing with and some of the things I've
Speaker 1: seeing emergency departments, and you know, she just reminded me
Speaker 1: of a time that we had together, um where I
Speaker 1: was trying on sort of the gowns and the gloves,
Speaker 1: just sort of by myself to make sure I did
Speaker 1: it right, because it's a proper way to gown and
Speaker 1: glove sterile and then take off those gowns and gloves.
Speaker 1: I was doing it, and you know I was wasn't
Speaker 1: doing it correctly, and you know, you know, big bad
Speaker 1: road scout, you know, can can think about all these
Speaker 1: things that people saying you're the smartest athlete of all
Speaker 1: time and you can't even put on a gown. I'm glad.
Speaker 1: I mean just things like that. I'm like, man, okay,
Speaker 1: humble me, bring me down to where I need to be. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it was funny, it was great. It's sort of said, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you're not as hot as you think you
Speaker 1: are and you can laugh at yourself and she can
Speaker 1: laugh at you and put it all things into perspective.
Speaker 1: So I think that was a moment for me where
Speaker 1: I realized, Okay, get off your high horse, get down
Speaker 1: to where you need to get to, because you're not
Speaker 1: the most important person. It's equation as these patients who
Speaker 1: are going through this stuff. And if you're was the
Speaker 1: sort of if laughter is able to break that tension, uh,
Speaker 1: then um, that that's a good thing that happened for me.
Speaker 1: It's going to continue to be important because yourself and
Speaker 1: others who have spent the time on the front lines
Speaker 1: will carry forward some of the scars of of what
Speaker 1: you've seen and what you've felt there. I think laughters
Speaker 1: can continue to play a role. I know it's being
Speaker 1: used right now to help treat patients who have dementia
Speaker 1: at Alzheimer's. My mom suffered from that. And and to
Speaker 1: be able to bring in a comedian. Um, there's you
Speaker 1: know laughter on call in l A which brings in
Speaker 1: comedians and in a way that very few things can.
Speaker 1: Laughter can connect with these people whose brains are struggling
Speaker 1: to find clarity in the fog. And it's it's that's
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. You try to have a good laugh
Speaker 1: every day, Myron, is is that part of your daily ritual? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely have a good daily laugh. Talk to my brother
Speaker 1: and my family, my friends. Social media is full of it,
Speaker 1: and the people I follow on social media are hilarious.
Speaker 1: My favorite comedians I tried, you know, checking with them
Speaker 1: a lot. So certainly having a good laugh is important
Speaker 1: daily part of life. Well, it's gonna be amazing to
Speaker 1: watch your journey. You've got a book in the works.
Speaker 1: I know you've got some travels to Africa and a
Speaker 1: lot of other chapters in your life to write. It's
Speaker 1: been awesome to watch so far. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: see how the rest of it unfolds. Maron, Thank you, Chris,
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Man so grateful to Dr Myron Roll,
Speaker 1: and to Gary Gallman and co executive producer Jennifer Dempster
Speaker 1: and producer Jason Whiteout. I hope you'll subscribe to via
Speaker 1: an Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts,
Speaker 1: And I hope you have enough laughter in your daily life.
Speaker 1: It really helps to surround yourself with funny people. If
Speaker 1: you can help you and your significant other can make
Speaker 1: each other laugh a lot. It really is precious and crucial.
Speaker 1: And if you can, then you can tell each other.
Speaker 1: All I'm after is a life full of laughter. As
Speaker 1: long as I'm laughing with you, we'll let Doctry have
Speaker 1: the last word. Un laughtered here. Thanks for listening, and
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon