1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: A femeral as a protection of I heard radio. Part 2 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: of the interviewing great people is that you get more 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: tape than you can use. Things you love inevitably end 4 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: up on the cutting room floor. The following is my 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: mostly uncut interview with our producer Matt Frederick. You might 6 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: know him from Stuff they Don't Want you to know, 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: or as the host of Monster is Aldiac Killer. He 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: and I have worked together behind the scenes on a 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: bunch of different things, including this show, in which Matt 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: has been involved since the very beginning. Fun fact, he 11 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: also married Victoria and I, and though we've had an 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: uncountable number of conversations about all things ephemeral, we never 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: had occasion to record it before. For the last episode 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: of the season, Matt turned up this old family tape, 15 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: a cassette his grandfather recorded in the nineteen nineties. Of 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: older family recordings dating back as far as nineteen fifty one, 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: it is incredibly rare to have home recorded audio from 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: that long ago. Recording was on a dicta belt, one 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 1: of many intermediary technologies between the invention of the wax 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: cylinder and the proliferation of real to real tape. It 21 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: reminds me of a fruit roll up bright red blue 22 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: or purple, translucent final plastic sleeves, like a cover for 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: a cylinder recorder. If they sound strange, perhaps they are. 24 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: I'll post a video on our Facebook page. We and 25 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: Matt's grandfather alternatively refer to these source recordings as Dicta 26 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: belts and as tapes. If you haven't already, go listen 27 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: to the season one finale taped over. We play some 28 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,199 Speaker 1: extended selections from this tape and a lot more. Here's 29 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: my interview with Matt, starting with the sound check. All right, 30 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: this is Mike's check on Alice, roll some tape. That's 31 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: the tape. Check and check Matt's Mike cardboard box ahead 32 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: checking mic some old dick to belt in it. They 33 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: had been increased and badly neglected. And I've tried to 34 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: rig up the machine. I tested everything happen you know, 35 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: you set to your perfect put you on that one. No, no, no, 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: this is perfect. Cross the adjustice slightly. Do whatever you want. Man, Okay, 37 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: this is okay, this is two We can at least 38 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: this sort of see each other. And this is good. 39 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 1: Things in the way good yeah, Mike, check, Mike check, 40 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: Mike check this is Matt talking, Yeah, it feels good. 41 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: Fifty nine. Oh, I gotta plug this in here, Watch out, dude, 42 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: d hight. I can make the sound effects for you. 43 00:02:55,240 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: Here you go. I like that. I'll just open the 44 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: episode like this. Or getting ready to move to sell 45 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: the house and cleaning out a closet, we found the 46 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: cardboard box that had some old dick to belts in it. 47 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,839 Speaker 1: They had been creased, and for the first minute they neglected. 48 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: And I've tried to rig up a machine to the 49 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: cassette recorder to see if we could pick up some 50 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: of it. As near as your mother and I can tell, 51 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: she's usually accurate on as the historian of our family. 52 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: This first bit was probably recorded in nineteen fifty one, 53 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: sometime during the middle or late fifty one, and it 54 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: was I had brought the machine home. I remember to 55 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: try to record joyce first words, and I made a 56 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: considerable effort to get her to do that, And the 57 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: longer I tried, the more she just batted the microphone around, 58 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: and I kept using all kinds of baby talk and 59 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: tricks to get her to do something, and resulted only 60 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: in making her take the following first recorded protest and 61 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: then you know, I think that the next thing is 62 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: comes pretty clear that would you just describe that just 63 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: described that this tape, that tape as set that he's 64 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: making right now? What what is this? This is an 65 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: old tan tape cassette that my mother found and it 66 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: was apparently just a recording that my grandfather, I know 67 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: him as Papa. His name is James Phillips. He uh, 68 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: he was recording this after he found some old tapes. 69 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: Well in this case, it was a real to reel 70 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: that he wanted to find a way to transfer over 71 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: onto cassette tape for posterity, I'm assuming and you can 72 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 1: you can hear him so um, it's almost coldly narrating 73 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: in a way. It has a lot to do with 74 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: the nature of my grandfather. He was very philosophical, analytical man, 75 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: and he's just narrating to anyone else listening. This is 76 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: the process that he's taking. This is what you will 77 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: be listening to. And this is why I performed these tasks. 78 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: You can clean a lot about my grandfather just by 79 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: hearing that one phrase. It I took considerable effort to 80 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: do so. Uh. And when he's just when he's speaking 81 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: about his you know, one year old baby, my mother 82 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: and you know, attempting to get her to to say 83 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 1: her first words. Um. It's so fascinating to me because 84 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: it really does speak to him and his his character. Um, 85 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: the type of person he was, just by listening to 86 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: this tape after all of these years. You know, my 87 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: mother was born on Christmas nineteen fifty Christmas Day nineteen fifty, 88 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: and every year they would call to to the moment, 89 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: to the minute that my mother was born. Every year 90 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: they would call and I wish her a happy birthday. 91 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: My mother was very, very important to them. What minute? 92 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: What time is? It is the time of her birth. 93 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: It's in the evening. I don't know exactly what it is. 94 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: I just know for a fact that was just a 95 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: thing that would occur. Um, guy, I want to say, 96 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: is around six pm. I don't know if that's correct 97 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: or not. No, I'm just just curious. Do you think 98 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: your mom would know? If you asked us, she would 99 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: know exactly. Oh, my mom would definitely know because it 100 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: has been drilled into her head by my grandfather, my grandmother. Um, 101 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: both of whom my grandmother and my grandfather have passed. 102 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: Since my grandfather Papa worked in the juvenile. I guess 103 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: it's justice system that I don't know exactly the terminology 104 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: for it. But he was a psychologist and he worked 105 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: at UM at a place where children would go that 106 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: was essentially a prison right. And when he's performing these interviews, 107 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: a lot of times he was recording them as technology 108 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: became available, and you know, around this time it must 109 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: have been, gosh, the late forties, very beginning of nineteen fifty, 110 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: he had access to some kind of recording. He says, 111 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: dicked about and he says nifty one according to your grandma, 112 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: because she's the family historian. Well, I mean, my I know, 113 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: so the facts here are the fact my my mother 114 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: was born Christmas nineteen fifty. If she's making those sounds 115 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: like that is a baby sound. As a father, I 116 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: know exactly how old of a child that is. I mean, 117 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: it really is between zero and I want to say 118 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: six seven months like maximum. Um that that's that's that 119 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: is the sound of a baby that you're hearing. So 120 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: it must be in nineteen um. Just the fact that 121 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: he had access to this hardware, to this new technology 122 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: that he was going to bring home, you know, and 123 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: try and get the first words from my mother. I 124 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: can totally understand that we live in an age now. 125 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: I have a three year old son, and I know 126 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: early on when he was beginning to vocalize, my wife 127 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: and I had our phones out all the time, attempting 128 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: to capture this moment, this the first word or the 129 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: first words or phrase or something to where this baby 130 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: is um not just this babbling little being, but this 131 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: thing that's attempting to communicate with us with the words 132 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: that we use. It's a magical moment that you want 133 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: to capture. And that's exactly what my grandfather was attempting 134 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: to do, just with this older technology. So he can't 135 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: just sit there and roll tape for hours and hours 136 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: or days or days the way we can with our 137 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: digital technology now. He had to very purposefully go to 138 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: attempt to get those first words out of her, almost 139 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: like in this weird way, almost this interrogation or this 140 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: uh I I experimentation or something to where Okay, we're 141 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: going to make this occur now, and it doesn't go well, No, 142 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: it does not go well. The best thing about this 143 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: tape is just hearing my grandfather then in the nineteen 144 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: nineties or whenever that was, perhaps when he's recording the 145 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: cassette of him narrating what was occurring in nineteen because 146 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: the frustration that he has and thinking about it, in 147 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: the disbelief that anyone ever would be interested in listening 148 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: to this. There's a part where he's literally he says 149 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: that he's erasing the old tape. It is still going on, 150 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: So we will continue to erase. As a matter of fact, 151 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: I think I'll begin at the beginning and erase all 152 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, now that I don't really get. I 153 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: don't know why he would do that. It feels like 154 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: for me, knowing knowing Jim or Papa, he would want 155 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: to preserve that recording in some way as a standalone 156 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: and then as a secondary thing, makes something that would 157 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: be presentable to someone else, rather than having to sit 158 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: through the entire tape of my mother crying for an hour. 159 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: And so that's the cassette tape, that's the nineties tape. 160 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: I don't know why he says he's erasing the dickt 161 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: about recording on tape. I don't. I don't know why 162 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: he would be doing that, honestly, I don't. But it 163 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: could also be him, you know, he's the kind of 164 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: person that simultaneously wants so badly to hold on to 165 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: the the real world artifacts of his experience and his life, 166 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: but also to to shed himself of a lot of that. UM. 167 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: He was very much I would use the word obsessed, 168 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: but I don't think that's correct. He was UM tremendously 169 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: fascinated with his own mortality and with the mortality of 170 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: um of others around him, and he his bookshelf was 171 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: filled with philosophical musings on whatever afterlife could be or 172 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: reincarnation um on, you know, heaven and hell and all 173 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: of these things. UM. I sometimes wonder if keeping those 174 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: artifacts while he's alive, to have those memories feel real, 175 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: to have something tangible to asp on too, even if 176 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: it is just a cassette tape. But he can hold 177 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: that cassette tape in his hand and remember, oh, this 178 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: is this is my daughter's you know, first recording. Also, 179 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: you do interact with it sensorally, you know, Yeah, fib 180 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: rates your ear drums too, Yeah, And he can really 181 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: experience it again if he wants to. But at the 182 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: same time, he's making a recording where he's essentially criticizing 183 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: his own efforts, is doing an edit on himself. Yeah, 184 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: in time like that, and now we're listening to it again. 185 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: The first time I ever heard it was when my 186 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: mom found it because you were making ephemeral Yeah, and 187 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: I forgot about that. I'm just kidding, no, no, but 188 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: I think this is worth exploring. And perhaps it doesn't 189 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: even go into the podcast, but because you were making 190 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: this show, I asked my mother to see if there's 191 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: anything in storage somewhere that has an old recording that 192 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: we could find, and in particular of my grandfather, because 193 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: he liked to make recordings like that of just his thoughts. Um, 194 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: I have. I had countless recordings of his thoughts when 195 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: I was in college, just fascinating stuff. Felt like I 196 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: was listening to a guru of sorts or a teacher 197 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: or something, just listening to his his philosophical musings. Uh. 198 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: I very much loved it. I got to bring it 199 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: into a studio here and record it just to see 200 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: if there was anything usable and I got to hear 201 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: it for the first time. And he's been gone since, 202 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: and um, it was very much an emotional experience for 203 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: me two to listen to his voice again because I 204 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: hadn't done it in a long time. And then also 205 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: hearing my mother as a baby, knowing the joy of 206 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:54,119 Speaker 1: being a father, and knowing the feeling that my grandfather 207 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: was having in that moment in nineteen fifty one when 208 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: he's making that initial recording. Um, that really struck home. 209 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: And I mean that pulses through the three layers of recording, 210 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: four if you want to count this one. Yeah, right, 211 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: that whatever that spark is right, Like, I wonder if 212 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: there's something special about getting the first words versus getting 213 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: the second words, and there really isn't. There really isn't. 214 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: It's just I think that's more societal, right, that baby's 215 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: first words or something that benchmark. Yeah, but it's written 216 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: down in places you know, they're they're manufactured books that 217 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: come out where you're supposed to put in things like 218 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: the first words, and there's no section for the second 219 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: or fifth word. Now, I can't speak to exactly what 220 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: was happening or why that my grandfather came upon this 221 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: dickta belt this real essentially of the recording, but I 222 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: do know, and he says it in the tape that 223 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: the family is preparing to move and he just happened 224 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: to stumble upon it, basically, And I can only assume 225 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: you know when you're moving, think about how hectic that 226 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: situation is, trying to get all of your worldly possessions 227 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: into boxes, organizing things, getting it out of the door. 228 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: I guarantee you that while they were planning to move, 229 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: my grandfather stumbled upon this, and then late one night, 230 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: he got out of his cassette player, he got out 231 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: some old hardware that he had laying around somewhere and 232 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: just began listening. And as soon as he stumbled upon it, 233 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: he felt like he needed to to have it to uh, 234 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: to share with, probably probably my mother as well as 235 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: her brother, who was also named Jim. I think I 236 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: think that's probably what happened, and I can't it's so funny. 237 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: I can't tell you where they were moving or or like, 238 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly those facts. I believe it's when 239 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: they were moving to their condo in Florida, but um, 240 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: perhaps that's not true. That's where I remember them moving up. 241 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: The only place, the only place I ever remember them 242 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: living is a condo in Clearwater, Florida. Where were they? 243 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: Where were they before that they were in I think 244 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: I think I know there was some time in Ohio 245 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: for sure. I can't remember if they were actually in 246 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: New York or not. Um, and this is just problems 247 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: with my family not having a very good history. There's 248 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: gray spots and everybody's yeah, there's some there's some punks 249 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: of tawny, I believe time, but I don't know exactly 250 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: when that was. And so then he's he's got the 251 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just I'm picturing it, you know, house 252 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: having boxes in the near the closet late at night. 253 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: He's got rio to real on one side, and it's 254 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: got tape deck on the other, plugged in and a 255 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: microphone plugged in so he can narrate and play a 256 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: little tape narrate basically djayang. Yeah, he is, he is, 257 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: it's it's um. And I I know it was at 258 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: night too, because that's generally when he would be really 259 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: active with his writing, when he was like journaling or 260 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: taking notes with something. Uh. And so yeah, I mean 261 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: the tape plays that we really don't need to narrate 262 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: because he he uh, he does all of them. He 263 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: did all the work for us kind of um. But 264 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: so the rest, so the tape that he's digitizing has 265 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: other stuff on it. It's been taped over and you 266 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: you can hear at one point my mother and my 267 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: uncle a little bit older, and they're singing songs in 268 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: a non exactly sequential order or not exactly. Um, what's 269 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: what I'm looking for? When something goes in and a 270 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: not exactly chrono logical order, they grow up. Yeah it's 271 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: the tape. Yeah, um, it's it's fascinating to your mom, 272 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: like as a let me, let me play a little 273 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: bit of this, ahm Casand she's singing here a good day. 274 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: Did you can hear it? She's a really good singer 275 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: because kids don't sing like you know, perfect even though 276 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: her vocal cords can't I'm start I'm talking over it. 277 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: But even though her vocal cords can't quite do it 278 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: like you can tell it, she's a singer. She sounds 279 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: so much like my sister. When my sister was doing 280 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: no fright mostra al Havend and your wife, I don't 281 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: think I know the tune in dude of my sister 282 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: has a three year old dog her it sounds like 283 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: her too. It's it's so odd. Oh come and then 284 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: you know uh uh they're also I mean your Grandfa's 285 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: like leading them in song all the time. But so 286 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: I mean because of the magic of time travel, which 287 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: is you know, memory, and you know we have physical 288 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: tape that will do that work for us. Uh, you 289 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: know shortly after she's singing is awful talking to teenager? 290 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: Is that hurricane O singing in French been cau regarded institution. 291 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: She has lost in the talk and the ads and 292 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: the features. Thank you ps in Jim's day like kids baseball, 293 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: I was just slash by five before. But is that Jim, Jim, 294 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: this is no those choice told me that she stole 295 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: cars more I think it was, and that she was 296 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: driving it and a police after she had a driving life, 297 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: and of course she said no because she fell into 298 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: her team and when she said she had to go. 299 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: And today my father, Mr. Sell said that from the drawing, 300 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's her or not, but it 301 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: sure seems I could go into the top a lot 302 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: of other steps and maybe they're true. Thank you for 303 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: all courthouse not to stay and I didn't know anything, 304 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: and I'm just losing my dad and we got a staining. Sheman, 305 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: He said, Jim, I think that was going to cut 306 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: in on this last part of this tape to explain 307 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: that somehow, some way in doing these dicta belts, they 308 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: got all messed up. We have Jim at a much 309 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: earlier age finishing off the tape with joy, and he, 310 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: of course, in the first part of the tape is 311 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: ninety three, was singing songs and you can tell the difference. 312 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: How the chronologically they got so screwed up. I don't know, 313 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: but I think it's funny like that he is frustrated 314 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: by it, almost like it's an amazing fun He's like, 315 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: why are they out of order? I mean, I'm curious 316 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: too this little bit right here. I'm gonna just play 317 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: just a couple of seconds on the end there. I 318 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: think that that long tape gets cut in several times. 319 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: It's been fascinating happens here that I don't know what 320 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: ever crack the mystery of it, but maybe you're true. 321 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: Thank you court not to stay so I didn't let 322 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: anything that. I'm just being my dad and Dick Camy machine. 323 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: And that's how many times do you hear? I hear 324 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: like four times that those are four different recordings right there. 325 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right, because I know I heard 326 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: Jim earlier, but then I heard my mom immediately after 327 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: I heard him, and then it came back to jim 328 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: He's saying he's visiting my dad at the courthouse. That 329 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: hits home right for me, because I mean the tape 330 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: that I used in the first episode that my oldest 331 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: tape is is me and my Dad's office. Oh yeah, 332 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: I'm gonna play you just this. This is what I 333 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,239 Speaker 1: think is maybe it's this is one of the most 334 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: amazing tapes I've I've ever gotten to listen to, but this, 335 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: this is probably my favorite part. We've got it going out. 336 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: We've got to see Mommy by Daddy, Bye, Jimmy, by everybody. 337 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: I'm just listening to this take someday with this. It's 338 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: a very hip talk problem and I'm so sorry to 339 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: do well she knew so, I mean, besides that they're 340 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: doing skits, besides the fact that just like all of 341 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: your family is just like brilliant and really talented and 342 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: multi lingual, and and they all like get it that 343 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: this is they're part of this time travel continue. Um, 344 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: I don't know if they get it, but they at 345 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: least knew that somebody later on will listen to it. 346 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: I'd have to assume that my mom in that moment, 347 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: is just thinking about heard her father listening to it later, 348 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: or maybe somebody from the office listening to it. Um. 349 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: I I mean, perhaps perhaps they knew. But it's it's 350 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: really it's crazy how it resonates, like whether they knew 351 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: or not. For For me, it's just saying those words 352 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: into a recording in the nineteen sixties, Uh, saying, whoever 353 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: is going to be listening to this, and now you 354 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: and I in sitting in a room commenting on it. Uh. 355 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 1: And then people on their phones walking around with their 356 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: headphones in listening to that. Um, damn. And who knows 357 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: if it would be the end. I mean, this tape 358 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: or maybe this episode that we're working on gets mixed 359 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: into something later the extraterrestrials use it as some form 360 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: of research. Fire everybody. I haven't even asked any of 361 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: the questions yet. Um, your grandfather calls your grandmother the 362 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: family historian at some point, do you think that he 363 00:24:50,920 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: was the family documentarian? Perhaps? I mean in a a 364 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: in a way, my grandfather was so concerned with what 365 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: comes next, for his life, for his children, for his grandchildren, 366 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 1: for myself and my sister Kim. He was very concerned 367 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: about protecting. He was concerned about um, the the the 368 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: worry that he had for the next thing, whatever comes next, 369 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: And a lot of times, you know, for him, it 370 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: was the worst case scenario. Let's prepare for that. Let's 371 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: make sure if the worst case scenario occurs, we're gonna 372 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna be okay, We'll be able to handle that. 373 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 1: Then anything that happens that's more positive than worst case scenario. 374 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: It's just it's icing on our our life cake whenever 375 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: that is. That's a weird phrase, but um, for him, 376 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: documenting these kinds of moments so that he can look 377 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: back and have almost this almost a legacy, just a 378 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: personal collection of legacy that would get passed down in 379 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: some way. I think it was very important to him. 380 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, I would say my grandmother was more of 381 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: the I can recall what occurred in any given moment. 382 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: I will tell you exactly what happened when she was 383 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: amazing at that. She can tell you, oh, no, that 384 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: was that was seven. I remember we were, we were 385 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: here and we did this. Does Diana do that? Does 386 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: she remember the things that you forget? She has such 387 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 1: better recall for when things occurred, you know, we were 388 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: discussing our first date. We've we've been together. We're gonna 389 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: be married for ten years this year, and we've been 390 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: together since two thousand two, and I was trying to 391 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: recall our first date and she rattled it, and she 392 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 1: just rattled it right off, and I was like, oh, 393 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: that's not the way I remembered it, honestly, because I 394 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: think maybe we have a tendency to do that. I 395 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: replaced our first official date with one that I found 396 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: either more exciting and more enjoyable or more interesting. I've 397 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: then took that bookmark and then shifted it over a 398 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: little bit in my mind. And I wonder how often 399 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: we do that. They say that as soon as something happens, 400 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: I mean because I mean the moment when when is 401 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: now it's gone. Uh, you have the memory of it, 402 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: but then your next memory of a memory of that memory, 403 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: and it just give and so it's just and so 404 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: if if if bad data gets in there, you know, 405 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: it can be replicated over and over take over like 406 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: a virus. As well intentioned as it maybe it's one 407 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: of the I think it's one of the reasons that 408 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: having scratched the old tape can have such a profound 409 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: impact because it just cuts through that even and maybe 410 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: even especially when it's sort of can be ambiguous, like 411 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: why is there why are the edges of this thing blurry? 412 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: Like I can't tell how many times times that record 413 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: button just got hit? It's sort of it raises all 414 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: those questions. It's sort of calls, yeah, calls to attention. 415 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: How bad are human memory is? Yeah? Yeah? Mine? In particular? Um, 416 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: is I count on you'd remember so many things for me? 417 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: Mad Well, that's why. Why do you think I take 418 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: such copious notes so I can look at it and go, Okay, 419 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: that's what was said. Um, do you think that you 420 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: to some extent had the torch pass? Do you do 421 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: you feel like you've followed in some way in your 422 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: grandfather's footsteps? It was certainly that thought or in motivation 423 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: was was placed on me a lot, and I think 424 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: I took it to heart quite a bit. My I 425 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: was my grandfather. Papa always would call me his one 426 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: and only, so my one and only because I was 427 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: his only grandson, and uh, there was a pressure I 428 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: felt from that, But also at the same time, there 429 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: was a a pride in wanting to to do right 430 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: by him. To always wanting to um. He had this 431 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: virtuous quality to him in in a way that I 432 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: don't experience in a lot of other people. Not that 433 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: not to say other people aren't virtuous, but it it's 434 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: almost so deeply ingrained in him that I looked I 435 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: looked to him on a pillar in a way. And 436 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: I know he wasn't a perfect man, but at the 437 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: same time, something about being so thoughtful and reflective was 438 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: was very appealing to me. And that in combination with 439 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: being called his one and only, like this person who's 440 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to inherit his earth that he's essentially created 441 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: around him, even this small space where he existed in 442 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: his family and all these people he's influenced and affected. 443 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: I was going to be the lineage to that, or 444 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: I was going to be the next essentially um. And 445 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: I took that to heart for certain, and I feel 446 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: I feel that now heavily. But some of that knows 447 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: you well. I think some of the those profound qualities 448 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: that you've found in him, I find in you. Uh. 449 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: But see, I also cannot accept a statement such as that, 450 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: right I feel my dad told me my family we 451 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,959 Speaker 1: do not have tapes. No one really taped my um. 452 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: There's a story my dad tells, I think in this 453 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: interview that I got with him, that my grandma or 454 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: my great grandma I think would point OU eight elementary 455 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: camera out the window on trips and so she filmed 456 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: you know the interstate. Yeah, yeah, I still do that sometimes. Yeah, 457 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: I mean everyone knows that video. There's a little bit 458 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: at odds and ends of silent films and stuff, but 459 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: there's really not like Victorious family has everything on tape. 460 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: We have like I have that old little tape there. 461 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: There's no videos until I got a camera when I 462 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: was thirteen and I started making sort of like skits 463 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: and things. But my dad called me the family history 464 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: or the family documentarian, and I'm like, I don't know, Hey, 465 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's true. And be that feels 466 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: like a burden, like I feel like i've I haven't. 467 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: I haven't like handled that responsibility. Well like I didn't. 468 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: I didn't do a good job documenting the things that happened. 469 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: I just made things. I know what you mean. Do 470 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: you have a video degree? I cannot, So you have 471 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: a video degree. As soon as soon as I got 472 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: my video degree, I felt and I know This is 473 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: much later in life, but I felt this pressure from 474 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: my family is like, well, you're gonna be the one. 475 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: He was like taking movie quality images of everything we're 476 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: going to be doing for the next you know, and 477 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: for as long as we all live. UM and I 478 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: have I have not been doing at because in a way, 479 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: it's this separation of what you do for work, for 480 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: an occupation or something like that, and then the quiet 481 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: um moments you have with your family or you know, 482 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: on vacation or doing something that doesn't require it doesn't 483 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: require it to be observed to be enjoyed, if that 484 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: makes sense. Does it require it to be observed to 485 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: enjoy it? And there's no. He doesn't require someone to 486 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: make a Facebook post. I I don't want anyone to 487 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: instagram it. I don't want to see anyone live tweeting 488 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: UM hanging out of the park with my family or 489 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: going to a family reunion. I don't care about that. 490 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: I want to be there with those people in those moments. 491 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: But at the same time, if we don't record it 492 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: in any way, then it is gone. And those those 493 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: two ideas exists always together at the same time. I 494 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: mean the question, I think that's at the heart of 495 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: it that I've been considering and have no answer to, 496 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: is how how do you choose when to hit record? 497 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,239 Speaker 1: Because like, I get this feeling that, oh, that thing 498 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: just passed me by. I wish I had that, And 499 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: then I get this other feeling like I've got my 500 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: phone out and I'm recording my cat. Well that's never 501 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: a bad idea, But I've got my phone out and 502 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: I'm recording something, and I'm like, I wish I was 503 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: just interacting with this moment and living in it, but 504 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: I turned my phone off and I'm worried that I'm 505 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: missing it. Yeah, and I don't think, you know, the 506 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: phone makes the phone adds an element to that, But 507 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: I don't think that it's it's new to that. I 508 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: do think technology has made that has amplified that problem 509 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: or that dilemma, I should say, certainly when it's also 510 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: a I think there's a factor there with the sharing, 511 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: the social media sharing kind of thing. So it's it's 512 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: no longer to document it, it's to share that this 513 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: is an experience you've had or are having in this moment. 514 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: And in in a way I'm uncomfortable with that for 515 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: some reason, it does sort of pack it, but you 516 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: know it feels more you factored too. I think like 517 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: your grandfather's trying to manufacture an encounter with your mother 518 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: and it goes totally wrong because you can't you know, 519 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: you can't tell the baby to say it's first words. 520 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: It's just like now. I also, I find it uncanny 521 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: how similar that tape is, that section of the tape 522 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,919 Speaker 1: to the first tape that's in the show that show 523 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: Uncle Jack your Shoes tape that the whole thing started from. 524 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: Can you say something, Hi, Ryan, Say Hi, Hi, you 525 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: want a coke shoose shooth shooth dude. I remember listening 526 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: to that. I'd never heard that clip before, that, that 527 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: piece of archival tape um until you made the demo 528 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: and then you shared the demo out with me and 529 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: I listened to it. I can remember the exact moment. 530 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: I was in my kitchen and my wife wanted me 531 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: to come and watch TV show with her in our 532 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: live room. We have this tiny little house. It's like 533 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: right around the corner. But I started listening to it 534 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: just with my phone speaker, and he was you know, 535 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: it opens with that piece of tape, and I could 536 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: not turn I told him I'm sorry, I can't. I 537 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: told my wife, I'm sorry, I can't come and watch 538 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: whatever this thing is right now. I need to listen 539 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: to this because it was so intriguing to me hearing 540 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: the moment, that fourth dimensional moment with those people in 541 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 1: that in that I'm assuming living room. I've always thought kitchen, 542 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 1: perhaps kitchen again, when I think about my house, it's 543 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: literally kitchen, living room. It's all just one tiny little thing, 544 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: and then like a couple of bedrooms over here. So 545 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: I just imagined the living space right in like a 546 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties home or maybe maybe well I'm just imagining 547 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: the home was probably m so just in my mind, 548 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: I've created this picture of that moment and mhm. And 549 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: a lot of it is manufacturing memories of my current 550 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: you know, living space, like I'm how I'm describing it, 551 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,359 Speaker 1: memories of being a kid in the small house where 552 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: I grew up with my family, um, the little condo 553 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: that my grandparents owned. It's all these kind of things 554 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: amalgamated into one. And I'm imagining that moment with the 555 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: windows from my parents house and the couch from my 556 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: grandparents condo. I don't know, it's just strange how our 557 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: our minds do that. Um And at the same time, 558 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: that was a real moment, however brief it was for 559 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: those people and we we get to experience it now. Yeah, 560 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: we all know who Gail is now. It's so, you know, 561 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: because shoes Victoria will walk around saying things that Gail said. 562 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: What's the one that she likes to say? I mean, 563 00:36:51,719 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: my favorite is and it's beautiful. I was the one 564 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 1: of Victoria likes to say, and Lynn Fichet doesn't. It's 565 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: nothing should just say. I'll just try to put like 566 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: to find a point on it, because this is an 567 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: unanswerable question. But like when you so when you're thinking 568 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 1: about do I hit record or do I not? You know, 569 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: you're at the beach with your son or whatever, you're 570 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: on this vacation, this amazing thing is happening that he's 571 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: just you know, existing, and this moment is just passing. 572 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: How do you It doesn't have to be that instance, 573 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: But is there any sort of rubric you can use 574 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: for when to record and when not to record? For me, 575 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 1: it's good to I think about it this way. My 576 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: wife and I are a team, and in my family, 577 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: it's my wife, myself, and my son. And if I 578 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: know my wife is they're enjoying a moment with my 579 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: son that she's she's so present with him that the 580 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: thought of getting her camera out or any kind of 581 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: recording device and hitting record is nowhere near where her 582 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: mind is. But I'm, you know, a bit of a 583 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: third party to what's occurring. That's when I will record, 584 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: and my wife will do that too. My wife is 585 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: much more thoughtful about it because she knows the rest 586 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: of our family wants to also see these moments, so 587 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 1: she will much more often record and remove herself from 588 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: the situation a little bit to do that. Um. Quite frankly, 589 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: I should be doing that more often so that she 590 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: can have more of those moments. But I know she 591 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: gets those, uh in her daily life because she's a 592 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: she stays at home with him. So I just want 593 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: to say that that's the burden of being the family 594 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: documentary and that you're feeling right. Yes, you're absolutely right, 595 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: because if you're the person recording it, then you are 596 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: somewhat absent, or at least there's a percentage of you 597 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: that it has to be absent. And the guilt that 598 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: you feel when you're not doing at yeah, because other 599 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: people want to know and see. It's It's tough, man. 600 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,439 Speaker 1: I think we just have to wait for the old 601 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: black mirror technology where our eyes are the cameras and uh, 602 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,320 Speaker 1: everything gets recorded in our hard drive up there. I 603 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: haven't written down here. Have you ever wished that everything 604 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: would be recorded? If even if it was just an 605 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: ephemeral wish, you just we're like, ah, I wish that 606 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: you know, you you're playing the drums and you just 607 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: played it perfect, and then you try to record it 608 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: in the second time, just didn't have the thing. Oh 609 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: so many times that has occurred. Um, I'd have to 610 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: say no, because I think if we if that technology 611 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:43,919 Speaker 1: existed where every moment got recorded in perpetuity, you would 612 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: lose the magic of it, of the moment. We'd never 613 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: be able to watch at all. Well, you'd never be 614 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: able to watch it all. But if you wanted to, 615 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: you could go back and relive, relive anything, however many 616 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: times you wanted always. And then if you if you 617 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: imagine some one doing that a point of consciousness, a human, 618 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: a single person living in a world where they're just 619 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: reliving all of the memories, then where are they existing 620 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: in the actual timeline, you know, the cusp of time? 621 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: Where where where are they there? I'll tell you what. 622 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: Being at an editor, you can feel like that sometimes 623 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: because you get lost, because editing is screws time up 624 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: and screws your brain up. Like I'm sitting here having 625 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: a conversation with you, and I'm trying not to think 626 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: about how I'm going to edit this later. I know 627 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,879 Speaker 1: I can't see I can then see it, and I'm 628 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm trying very hard to help you have these moments 629 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: where you can cut in yeah, no, and I can 630 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: see you doing that too. Um, So what the heck 631 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: do we do with that? I don't know. I don't know. 632 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: Oh Lord, I just I think maybe I just have 633 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: one more question here. Um, it's kind of specific to you. 634 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: You have been recorded lot? Yes, Yes, I have been 635 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: recorded a lot. Um. Do you have any idea how 636 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:13,439 Speaker 1: many times have you been recorded? Oh? Let's let's see 637 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: if I can guestimate. So there have been about three 638 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy episodes of stuff they don't want you 639 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: to know. And that's anywhere between half an hour or 640 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: two an hour. Um, I've recorded drums. I don't even 641 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: know how many times, only only professionally, maybe a hundred 642 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: or so times, or something like at a live gig 643 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: or in a recording studio or something. Um, oh, why 644 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: all the videos that we used to make on the 645 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: other podcasts and stuff, hundreds of times. And then if 646 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: you can imagine just all the family videos and everything acting. 647 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: I used to act all the time, and that would 648 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: get recorded. Oh god, yeah, I exist out there. Nobody 649 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: knows my name though, so that's the good thing. Say 650 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: a number, I think I number at this guy. It 651 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: would be let's just say around a thousand, probably true 652 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: moments where I knew I was being recorded and I 653 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: was actively participating. Okay, how about times that the record 654 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,879 Speaker 1: button the record button was depressed, that's a weird way. 655 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: How about times that the recorded button was hit. Yeah, 656 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 1: and any time for anything in any medium, Yeah, you recorded. 657 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: That's tens of thousands, easily, it could be more. Yeah. 658 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. I have no I my brain 659 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: can't really figure that out. And it simply is because 660 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: of the recording that we're focusing on today. My grandfather 661 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: made recordings like that all the time with with If 662 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: he was hanging out with my sister or I, we 663 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,000 Speaker 1: would just sit with him, and he would just want 664 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 1: us to talk so that he could because we would 665 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: be in Georgia most likely where he's coming up to 666 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,919 Speaker 1: visit us. Then he would retreat with his wife back 667 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,839 Speaker 1: down to Clearwater, Florida, and wouldn't see us until maybe 668 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: next year or you know, eight months from then. And 669 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: we were very important to him. He he and my grandmother, 670 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 1: Grannian Papa, they let us know how important we were 671 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: to them every in every interaction. And I know for 672 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: a fact from talking to my my grandmother that he 673 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: would sit in his office and listen to those tapes 674 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: of my sister and I just talking about nothing, just talking, 675 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, playing we're playing with my grandfather and he 676 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: would just sit and listen and he would experience just 677 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: to be with us. Do you think that there's something 678 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 1: about the actual physical like the fact that it's on 679 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: tape versus versus you know, at digital recording. Do you 680 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: think there's something about the physical media inherently or do 681 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,919 Speaker 1: you think that it's just because we kind of grew 682 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:10,279 Speaker 1: up on the cusp of when analog was we're what 683 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: five years apart, you're like maybe five years older than 684 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: name yet and I'm nine yeah's six years. When we 685 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,280 Speaker 1: were kids, ever, you know, it was still VHS and stuff, 686 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: but digital was coming digital. And then by the time 687 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: you and I were in film school, it was digital, yes, exactly, 688 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: and now it's all very digital. I think it all 689 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 1: has to do with having a physical interaction. There is 690 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,320 Speaker 1: if you imagine that moment where you're going to the 691 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: closet like my grandfather did, and you you open, you 692 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 1: physically opened the closet. You smell, you know, maybe the 693 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: clothes that have been there for a while, the boxes 694 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: that are maybe a little bit dusty. You reach up 695 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,839 Speaker 1: and you pull out an old shoe box or something 696 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,840 Speaker 1: that has cassettes lined up in it, and you open 697 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 1: that box and you pull out a cassette tape. In 698 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 1: their sensory input with all of this, then you take 699 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: it over you you hear the you hit the eject 700 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: button on your cassette player and you hear it open. 701 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: You slide that cassette and you make sure it's you know, 702 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: perfectly in there and adjusted the correct way. You close it. 703 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,879 Speaker 1: You hear that you hit that play button, and it's 704 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: a physical it's a mechanism that you hit and then 705 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: this voice comes through of someone that you love. I mean, 706 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: that's a magical thing. Um and I I don't know 707 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,759 Speaker 1: if it's just because of when we grew up and 708 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: what we experienced and living through that. But it's not 709 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 1: the same as moving your mouths over your track pad 710 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,879 Speaker 1: over and clicking on a file or just hitting space bar. 711 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,279 Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what, it makes it a whole 712 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: lot easier. It certainly when you get a show that's, 713 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 1: you know, a hundred and fifty or two ques An episode. 714 00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,239 Speaker 1: If I had to pull those all from down the 715 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 1: off the shell off and get forty fives and tapes 716 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: and reel to reels and line it up recording in 717 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 1: real time. I have wire recording in there. I got 718 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: wax cylinders. If that stuff hadn't all then digitized, this 719 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't be possible at all. You're absolutely correct. You're absolutely correct. 720 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: But I think what I'm speaking to is the reason 721 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 1: that cassettes. You'll you can find cassette tapes again. Now 722 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 1: bands are putting out their music on cassette tapes. Final records. 723 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 1: We have a new person who's working at our office 724 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: named Seth. He runs a record company where he specifically 725 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,399 Speaker 1: will take your music and make a vinyl record out 726 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 1: of it. That's what he does, right. Yeah, and it's 727 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,320 Speaker 1: there's a resurgence of it because you get to have, 728 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,760 Speaker 1: in my opinion, because you get to have that interaction. 729 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,880 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I mean, it's endlessly fascinating. It's 730 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,360 Speaker 1: one of the tenants of this show. It's one of 731 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,480 Speaker 1: the things that Sarah Wasserman, like, her whole sort of 732 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: careers built on it. Yeah, and she can talk to 733 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: it brilliantly. Yeah. I started just you know, blink my 734 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: eyes and stare into the into the distance. But you 735 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 1: made a show about it. And honestly, how often do 736 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,080 Speaker 1: we think about this stuff when we're when we're living 737 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,399 Speaker 1: our busy lives. You know, even I probably don't think 738 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: about it near as much as I could, as much 739 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,239 Speaker 1: as I interact with that. It's like you're busy and 740 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: you're doing things. You know. I'll tell you this how 741 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: it's the reason why this show resonates with me so 742 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: much is because of the philosophical nature of it. It's 743 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: it's pondering ourselves and our experience and why it's important 744 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,839 Speaker 1: and how we record things and why things matter. That's 745 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: really what this big for me. That's what the show is. 746 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 1: And the tape that we're using just as an example 747 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: in this episode is it's the same thing for me 748 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,640 Speaker 1: because it's what my grandfather was, It's who he was. 749 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:58,280 Speaker 1: He he embodied that spirit of uh, pondering, questioning, wondering, 750 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: and he wanted to know what was going to happen 751 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,320 Speaker 1: to him. His biggest question was what happens to me 752 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: when I'm gone? But you know, we still have him 753 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: and he's still here. Isn't that spine shilling? It's cool, 754 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: It's amazing. I think it's a great place to wrap 755 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,120 Speaker 1: unless you feel like we didn't anything. I think we went. 756 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: I think we moved, you know, briskly, I'll break the 757 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:29,080 Speaker 1: corporate cords and cleaning on a closet, we found some 758 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 1: old dick to belt. Just in case you haven't heard 759 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,399 Speaker 1: it yet, This interview, as well as interviews with my wife, father, 760 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: and best friend, were used in the Ephemeral season finale, 761 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,400 Speaker 1: taped over. The full first season of Ephemeral is available 762 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,240 Speaker 1: now wherever you listen to podcasts. Learn more at Ephemeral 763 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,880 Speaker 1: dot show. I've tried to rig up a machine to 764 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,759 Speaker 1: see if we could pick up This is an odd 765 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 1: tape for the problem is thirty one years of magnetic decoration. 766 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,480 Speaker 1: I have no idea what it's gonna look like. These 767 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,880 Speaker 1: your role. These are about five different tapes. You are 768 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,240 Speaker 1: s twice together. Here they're a kid. The images were jumping, 769 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,359 Speaker 1: the sound got worked. I don't know whether it gets her. 770 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: It sure seems I could. She was afraid she would 771 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: forget what it sounded like forty years shorty one years later. 772 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: I can't understand why I recorded so much of it. 773 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: Disbelief that anyone ever would be interested in listening to this. 774 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: How nice it is for us to be in the 775 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,400 Speaker 1: here playing with this machine, like years of recording over 776 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:50,600 Speaker 1: the same tape. Yeah, I don't think there's any audio really, 777 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,439 Speaker 1: so I don't think there's much