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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stefan

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Speaker 1: Never told You production of iHeart Radio. And today we're

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Speaker 1: bringing back one of my favorite I had such a good.

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Speaker 2: Time doing this one. It's when we did a tale

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Speaker 2: of two holiday superhero movies.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah movies. That was That was a fun one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because we did kind of quote non traditional holiday

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Speaker 1: movies and I had never seen Batman Returns.

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Speaker 2: I got to watch it. It was great.

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Speaker 1: We talked about Iron Man three and bonus Spider Man

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Speaker 1: into the Spider Verse, which is it does fit. It did,

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Speaker 1: But I had such a I had such a fun

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Speaker 1: time doing this one, so please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff I've

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Speaker 1: Never told you, Protection of iHeartRadio's House.

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Speaker 2: Stuff works.

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Speaker 1: It's time for another feminist movie Friday.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna make this, I think so.

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Speaker 4: Wait. This is because it's coming out on Friday, not

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Speaker 4: that we're watching it on Friday.

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Speaker 1: It's however it fits into the lives of whoever's listening Friday. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it should accomplish on Fridays, but if you don't watch

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Speaker 1: it on a Friday, that's totally cool.

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Speaker 2: If you don't watch it, ever, I totally cool.

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Speaker 3: So you listen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well no, no, I want to move movie.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, see there's a lot of things you could

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Speaker 1: make this work on Friday.

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Speaker 4: However, views about you know, what senses we're supposed to

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Speaker 4: be using right now?

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Speaker 2: That seems to be a general confusion.

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Speaker 4: We have it, it's been general confused.

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Speaker 1: So I got to choose the last movie for feminist

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Speaker 1: movie Friday. Yeah, and so this one it was more

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Speaker 1: of a Samantha choice.

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Speaker 4: I felt it was a team effort because we were

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Speaker 4: both trying to figure out what movie is holiday, but

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Speaker 4: without being to holiday, right.

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Speaker 1: Because, like we talked about in our Emotional Neighbor Holiday

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Speaker 1: as an episode, Samantha's not a big holiday fan. And

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Speaker 1: back when I was sort of semi host less, I

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Speaker 1: did a holiday movie overview with my friend Katie.

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Speaker 2: It was mostly Hallmark movies. Yes, hi Katie, she's.

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Speaker 1: An expert in those, but we thought we'd tackle some

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Speaker 1: lesser discussed holiday movies today, so that this is more

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Speaker 1: than one film, right, But to be fair, yes, the

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Speaker 1: movie that I chose, it's very much like even though

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Speaker 1: they might not be seeing holiday carols.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of holiday decorations the entire movie.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and so we've built it up here we go.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Batman returns. Yeah, with a little bit

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Speaker 1: of Ironman three, a little bit and a little bit

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Speaker 1: of Spider Man into the Spider.

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Speaker 2: Verse a little.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I would like to say, though, we will be coming

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Speaker 4: back to the craft and the mania suggestions you guys had,

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Speaker 4: we decided to go ahead and start our holiday edition

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Speaker 4: with a little bit of feminist turn Again. I don't

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Speaker 4: like holidays, altho.

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Speaker 3: I kind of enjoyed some holiday movies.

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Speaker 4: I already said that I like Love Actually and that

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Speaker 4: is an absolute holiday movie.

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Speaker 3: But that was just too on the nose for us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and a lot of them, as we discussed,

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Speaker 1: I think in the past past episode hard to have

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Speaker 1: much feminist discussion in them unless we're just like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is all a problem here. And surprisingly Batman returns.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot to.

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Speaker 3: Be said, there's a lot to be said.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're surprised, And somehow we wedged a viewing in

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Speaker 4: for both Batman Returns and Spider Man into the Spider

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Speaker 4: Verse on Sunday. Yeah, Oh my goodness, Yeah, my goodness.

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Speaker 3: And then we had like Harry Potter in there, so

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Speaker 3: it was all night.

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Speaker 2: It was a very long time. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Also, I feel like, uh, I missed an opportunity to

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Speaker 4: have the live interaction commentary that you put on any

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Speaker 4: uh it's.

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Speaker 3: Almost as entertaining as the actual movie.

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Speaker 4: And so if you guys ever want to treat, if

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Speaker 4: I could ever live stream you watching Spider Man into

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Speaker 4: the Spider Verse, and.

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Speaker 3: It will never be a clip of the movie.

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Speaker 4: It's just you squealing at the movie the entire time.

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Speaker 1: It's oh man, I had about Carvy dots and the line.

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Speaker 4: And it was so so. My friend Joe was there

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Speaker 4: and the two of you were just having a back

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Speaker 4: of board and I kept looking at both of you, going,

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Speaker 4: you guys are the worst people to watch movies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I really couldn't contain my enthusiasm. I appreciate that

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Speaker 1: you let me have that.

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Speaker 4: Oh oh, one day we're gonna do it again and

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna live stream it for everyone.

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Speaker 2: I was very excited.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know we were going to get to watch that.

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Speaker 1: That was kind of a bonus little treat. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: we will return to that at the very end. And

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Speaker 1: if I want to do spoiled Saturdays where we just

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Speaker 1: have a take on something that's really recent, and if

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Speaker 1: you don't want to be spoiled, then.

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Speaker 4: Feel like we could talk about The Joker and like

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Speaker 4: what we talked about previously, and then Midsummer.

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Speaker 1: I have Yeah, I have so many horror movies, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: please let me talk about this, but okay, today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about Batman Returns, Batmanaturns. Yeah, And for this I

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Speaker 1: did want to do a really quick overview of Catwoman

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Speaker 1: because she's pretty much what we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about in terms of this movie, and she's been.

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Speaker 2: Around a long long time.

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Speaker 1: I think definitely future episode because there is a lot

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Speaker 1: to be said about her, but quickly. She first appeared

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Speaker 1: in nineteen forty, meaning that she's been through the first, second, third,

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Speaker 1: and fourth if you want to call that waves of feminism.

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Speaker 1: She was designed by Jerry Robinson and Bob Kine. Only

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Speaker 1: three women have written for her so far, and she's

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Speaker 1: only ever been drawn by men. If you're wondering, she

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Speaker 1: was one of the first ever female comic book superheroes.

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Speaker 1: In quotes, her name is Selena Kyle and she's a

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Speaker 1: cat burglar in a catsuit. She's often painted as an

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Speaker 1: anti hero and sometimes a villain and sometimes a hero,

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Speaker 1: and this allows her to operate in a space where

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Speaker 1: she's tough to pin down. She's more than Batman's sometimes

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Speaker 1: love interest. Over the years, she's been played by a

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Speaker 1: handful of people, from Michelle Pfeiffer to Halle Berry to

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Speaker 1: Anne Hathaway and I think I was telling you, Samath.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure most of the mainstream women who've played

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Speaker 1: her have all been nominated for oscars.

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Speaker 2: Are one oscars?

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Speaker 1: So hey, yeah, and yes. In most depictions, she is

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Speaker 1: highly sexualized. Her outfit is similar to what a dominatrix

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Speaker 1: would wear, down to the whip, which is you ually,

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Speaker 1: her weapon of choice. And then there's this quote Bob

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Speaker 1: Kine once said of catwomen, I felt that women were

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Speaker 1: feline creatures and men were more like dogs. While dogs

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Speaker 1: are faithful and friendly, cats are cool, detached, and unreliable.

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Speaker 1: I felt much warmer with dogs around me. Cats are

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Speaker 1: as hard to understand as women are. Men feel more

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Speaker 1: sure of themselves with a male friend.

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Speaker 2: Than a woman.

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Speaker 1: You always need to keep women at arms length. We

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Speaker 1: don't want anyone taking over our souls, and women have

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Speaker 1: a habit of doing that, So there's a love resentment

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Speaker 1: thing with women. I guess women will feel that I'm

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Speaker 1: being chauvinistic to speak this way, but I do feel

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Speaker 1: that I've had better relationships with male friends than women

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Speaker 1: with women.

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Speaker 2: Once throwmances over, somehow, they never remaine my friends.

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Speaker 4: Of course not.

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Speaker 1: So this is the person who created Catwomen. That might

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Speaker 1: give you some insight into the character. This also might

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Speaker 1: she was created in part to combat talk of homo

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Speaker 1: eroticism between Batman and Robin and to reinforce Batman's heterosexuality.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Catwoman was banned from the comics in the fifties

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Speaker 4: because of the comic code that dictated that crime should

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Speaker 4: never be seen to pay, and Catwoman was not acting

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Speaker 4: like how a woman should behave. Oh no, and she

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Speaker 4: didn't return to the nineteen sixties. She was originally played

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Speaker 4: by Julie Newmar in the nineteen sixties TV series with

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Speaker 4: Adam West, who was also then later on played by

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Speaker 4: Eartha kit in the final season of that series, apparently

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Speaker 4: because Julie Numar was in a movie contract. She has

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Speaker 4: different origin stories, so the first being known as the

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Speaker 4: cat who carries the whip and has high stakes thievery

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Speaker 4: Yeah to Stewardess with amnesia that turned to crime that

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Speaker 4: then later assisted Batman in stopping crime to the now

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Speaker 4: though nothing now to what we're talking about. Ninety two

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Speaker 4: version of the Revenge Seeking recis Exceptionist Assistant an assistant

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Speaker 4: to and Hathaway's original take on the high stage thief right.

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Speaker 1: And throughout these various incarnations, one thing that has remained

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Speaker 1: steady is that she is sexualized and the power her

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Speaker 1: body has over others. However, since she is catering to

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Speaker 1: the male gaze, it's really hard to say what is

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Speaker 1: power and what is objectification.

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Speaker 2: And I have felt this when I've.

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Speaker 1: Dressed as her, because I have had a lot of

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Speaker 1: super gross comments made to me, including one that really

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Speaker 1: stands out where this guy said that I quote knew

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Speaker 1: exactly what I was doing by dressing as her.

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Speaker 3: It's very rapey.

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Speaker 2: It was gross.

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Speaker 3: It's a very rapey comment.

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Speaker 4: Side note here, according to some in the original series

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Speaker 4: and then when we see it again in both Batman

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Speaker 4: returns in Dark Knight, the love story link between Batman

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Speaker 4: and Catwoman existed, however, when Arthur Kit portrayed the role

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Speaker 4: as Catwoman because she was African American, and because Adam

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Speaker 4: West Is was white, writers and creators felt it was

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Speaker 4: too taboo and not suitable for them to be a

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Speaker 4: on screen romance. So they changed that story to being

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Speaker 4: Batgirl and Batman.

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Speaker 2: Yes, which is yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and uhat girl. It was also a bat Woman

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Speaker 1: who was introduced when Catwoman was being shot off the stage,

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Speaker 1: who was like.

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Speaker 2: See heteronormativity family.

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Speaker 1: She was like the mom, the boring mom, and then

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Speaker 1: Batman is the dad Robin.

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Speaker 4: And I remember this because I did watch the series.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I guess I really like that Adam

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Speaker 4: west series growing up, where Batgirl was very the girl

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Speaker 4: next door, yeah, while Catwoman was the bad girl.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So the plot, yeah, how would you describe this?

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Speaker 2: The plot little of.

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Speaker 4: So many things, because you know, this is the beginning

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Speaker 4: where they were having more than one and I hear

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Speaker 4: a villain and two the stories. So Batman returns in

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Speaker 4: the nineteen ninety two Batman's sequel, directed by Tim Burton

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Speaker 4: with a script by Daniel Waters.

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Speaker 3: This is the same dude that did the.

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Speaker 4: Script for Heathers Yes, which you acknowledged, Yes, I do,

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Speaker 4: And that's going to be another movie.

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Speaker 3: I think we need to visit.

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Speaker 4: Michael Keaton plays Bruce Wayne Batman, who was doing his

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Speaker 4: best to protect Gotham from a corrupt industrialist named Max

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Speaker 4: Shrek who was played by the wonderful Christopher walkinsh so good,

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Speaker 4: and a crime boss known as the Penguin by the

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Speaker 4: who else could it be? But Danny DeVito, like, I

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Speaker 4: don't know if there's going to be anyone who could

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Speaker 4: replace that. And it takes place at Christmas time a

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Speaker 4: giant tree the opening scene, there's multiple Christmas tree lightings. Yes,

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Speaker 4: that's yes, that's true presence all that, Yes, to bring

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Speaker 4: in all of the crazy clowns. Apparently circuses something to

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Speaker 4: do with it as well as zoos. Okay, so according

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Speaker 4: to the Amazon.

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Speaker 2: Description, yeah, let's see how Amazon.

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Speaker 4: Batman Kate Crusader is pitted against demented, ravenous Penguin, a

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Speaker 4: full orphaned psychopathic freak, and power hungry capitalist villain Max Shrek.

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Speaker 4: So no, of course not, even though that was really

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Speaker 4: really one of the like that honestly, between her and

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Speaker 4: Danny DeVito and Christopher Walken, I remembered Michelle Pfeiffer in

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Speaker 4: the movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what a lot of people seem to

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Speaker 1: say when I tell them, when I would say, we're

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Speaker 1: doing this episode, and then they.

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Speaker 2: Would immediately the iconic cat like right.

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Speaker 1: And also, I just want to mention my favorite part

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Speaker 1: of this Amazon description is that power is in quotes

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Speaker 1: of course, because he's there's a power plant involves I

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Speaker 1: would get.

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Speaker 4: If you've seen it in a Marvel, not a Marvel,

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Speaker 4: a DC movie for sure. Because also the original Batman

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Speaker 4: series had all of the kind of uh puns. Oh oh,

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Speaker 4: so they kind of gave a lineage to that.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they they definitely leaned in in this one.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen, so disclaimer, I've seen all of these

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Speaker 1: era of Batman movies. I've seen all the Christopher Nolan wants,

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Speaker 1: but I saw them all in one very drunken day,

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Speaker 1: so I only remember bits and pieces. But oh, Samantha,

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Speaker 1: and I did rewatch this from for this show, so

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Speaker 1: I have seen that, but I do. I had got

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Speaker 1: a sense that they really leaned hard into those puns, right.

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Speaker 4: I think the second one was a little more because

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Speaker 4: the first one was also by Tim Burton, and I

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Speaker 4: feel like you see the same darkness, but the second

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Speaker 4: one seems a little kitchier. But to be fair, I

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Speaker 4: guess you have that origin story of Batman, so the

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Speaker 4: darkness of you know, seeing his parents die and all

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Speaker 4: of that, and him coming out to the community as

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Speaker 4: you know, this vengeful hero. But you do also have

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Speaker 4: the joker of doing a majority of the puns and

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Speaker 4: being somewhat kitchy. As of the second one, I think

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Speaker 4: it's just kind of all happened. And you did mention

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Speaker 4: about the fight that there wasn't many scenes with Keaton.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of my favorite parts of the movie.

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Speaker 1: Actually, he's in like a fourth of it. He's really

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Speaker 1: not about him in my opinion, especially the first half.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely was all the origin stories for.

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Speaker 2: Catwoman, Yes, and I love that. So let's talk about Catwoman.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 1: So Michelle Pfeiffer played her Selena Kyle slash Catwoman, and

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Speaker 1: when the movie starts, Selena Kyle is the embodiment of

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Speaker 1: the crazy cat Lady. She's sort of frumpy in her outfit.

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Speaker 1: She has these glasses.

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Speaker 2: On which we all know in the eighty that meant well,

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Speaker 2: but it's still I guess means that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, people still use that as a thing of like

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Speaker 4: unless you're doing library esque, yeah, type of thing librarian

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Speaker 4: esque is still like the transformative moment, yeah, which is assdiculous.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, Michelle Pfeiffer frumpy is an oxymoron.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't it doesn't happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she says, I love this. But she gets

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Speaker 1: into her empty apartment, she says, honey, I'm home.

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Speaker 2: Oh I forgot I'm not married, right right, And she.

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Speaker 1: Is the executive assistant slash secretary of Max Shrek, who

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Speaker 1: is the ultimate sexist boss. He regularly demeans her, He

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Speaker 1: dismisses her, he humiliates her like publicly. When she speaks,

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Speaker 1: she does so as though she doesn't want to be heard,

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Speaker 1: and she voices things in questions. After she what does this,

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Speaker 1: Christoph baal Can say, we haven't housebroken her yet, and

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Speaker 1: he leaves. And then she calls herself a corn dot,

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Speaker 1: herself like, so stupid corn dog, which is.

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Speaker 3: A great fight. I'm gonna use that. I'm gonna call

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Speaker 3: everyone a corn dog.

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Speaker 1: I haven't heard that insult in a long time, and

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Speaker 1: I really appreciated it, especially coming from Michelle Fifer.

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Speaker 2: Very funny.

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Speaker 1: And then this is around the time where the Christmas

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Speaker 1: present thing goes wrong and the shell Fifer gets attacked

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Speaker 1: and it's held hostage by a clown. Yes, well, and

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Speaker 1: he has like a taser and Batman saves her and

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Speaker 1: then kind of.

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Speaker 4: Just leaves because she's invisible.

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Speaker 3: At that point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then she has to go back to work late

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Speaker 1: and she discovers that her boss is up to.

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Speaker 2: No good, up to no good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's basically she's she's smart enough to be like,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, your power plant is gonna suck.

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Speaker 2: Power from the city. What's going on?

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Speaker 1: And then he's like, oh, you're very good at your job,

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Speaker 1: too good perhaps, and he pushes her out a window

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Speaker 1: and uh he yeah, in his mind, what value did

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Speaker 1: she have? A poor, lonely woman. He just pushed her

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Speaker 1: out the window, right, yeah. And this is when she

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Speaker 1: becomes catwoman, I guess, after a bunch of cats walk

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Speaker 1: all over her and one bites her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we do see it, see it nibbling on her finger.

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Speaker 2: And there's blood involved, and so she I love this.

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Speaker 2: She goes home.

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Speaker 1: She looks like a zombie and she's says, honey, I'm

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Speaker 1: ho again. And then she listens to her answering machine

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Speaker 1: and there are three messages on it.

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Speaker 2: One from her mother, one from her ex.

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Speaker 1: Well basically her boyfriend breaking up with her says his

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Speaker 1: therapist said he doesn't need an appendage anymore. And then

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Speaker 1: a third one, which is from a perfume company that's

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Speaker 1: basically pushing how women's sexuality is their currency, which by

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Speaker 1: the way, as a callback to her comic book roots

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Speaker 1: as a sex worker and how capitalism profits off of that,

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Speaker 1: like the systemic kind of sexualization of gentrification of women.

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Speaker 1: And also it's from her boss's company. It's her boss's

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Speaker 1: department store. So she really transforms.

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Speaker 2: So she gets.

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Speaker 1: A like black spray paint and starts spray painting her apartment,

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Speaker 1: which by the way is like all pink and really

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Speaker 1: kind of gurlly.

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Speaker 4: Well there's stuffed animals discussed. Yeah, it's very much of

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Speaker 4: a young young girl, right, trying to grow up to

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Speaker 4: be a woman.

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Speaker 3: It was a transformation to be a woman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So she gets out of the black spray prit

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Speaker 1: spraying things down. She goes into her or closet and

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Speaker 1: pulls out a black jacket and starts kind of frantically

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Speaker 1: sewing it together.

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Speaker 2: To make this catsuit.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to like reiterate she survived the

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Speaker 1: tempted murder returns home and thinks to herself revenge but

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Speaker 1: first outfit, I love it.

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Speaker 3: Who doesn't do that?

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Speaker 4: I mean, you can't kick someone in a skirt, which.

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Speaker 3: Is what she's been wearing the entire time.

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Speaker 1: As part of this transformation, her voice becomes deeper, kind

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Speaker 1: of catlike and purring. She she has this sign, a

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Speaker 1: neon sign that said hello there, but she breaks it

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Speaker 1: so that instead says hell here.

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Speaker 2: That's one of my favorite things. I want that guy.

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Speaker 4: It's very pink as well. It's a reminder.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the sign is pink, and I feel like this

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Speaker 1: scene is a very screw you to the white picket

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Speaker 1: fence kind of perfect life that we've a lot of

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Speaker 1: us been told this is success, this is the only way.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, she becomes overcome with a self destructive desire

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Speaker 1: for revenge, and in this way, she's a great mirror

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Speaker 1: for Bruce Wayne's character. Where he is all about justice,

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Speaker 1: she is all about vengeance.

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Speaker 2: He is a member of the wealthiest class. She decidedly

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Speaker 2: is not.

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Speaker 1: She is torn between what she should do and what

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Speaker 1: she wants to do, between the tragedy of her past

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Speaker 1: and the potential to make the future into something better,

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Speaker 1: and Batman even says to her at the very end,

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Speaker 1: we're the same split right down the center. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do like that. It's her origin story. We see

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Speaker 1: Batman saves her and then she stabs him, which seems

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Speaker 1: to be a direct criticism of the damsel in distress.

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Speaker 1: He offers her a fare tail the ending women have

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Speaker 1: been taught to want, and.

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Speaker 2: She is like, oh, I couldn't live with myself and

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Speaker 2: this scratches him in the face.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and leaves a hook or a claw, leaves a claw.

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Speaker 4: She is not a sex object, or at least she

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Speaker 4: is that and something else. She is scary, unhinged and

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Speaker 4: a total nightmare.

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Speaker 3: That's a crazy girl, right.

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Speaker 4: Five put a live bird in her mouth for this movie,

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Speaker 4: which you told me about. Yeah, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: oh my gosh, she actually did this. And Penguin, who

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Speaker 4: totally does objectify her, describes her as beauty and the

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Speaker 4: beast in one luscious.

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Speaker 3: Christmas gift back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Also, he's just disgusting in every way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And when she they kind of make a pact to

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Speaker 1: work together to take down Batman, and when she refuses

401
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 1: his advances because in his mind there was going to

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Speaker 1: be this romantic sexual component to them working together. And

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Speaker 1: when she's she refuses his advances, he says, you.

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Speaker 2: Send out all the signals.

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Speaker 1: He minks, I had to have you spade, and then

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Speaker 1: he attacks her and cost her one of her nine

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Speaker 1: And also of notes in this conversation, Penguin, does he

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Speaker 1: die he dies? Yeah, he dies when he picks the

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Speaker 1: cute umbrella at the end, the feminine one, which does

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Speaker 1: nothing against the white, heteronormative masculinity of Batman.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: And also another line we want to showcase is when Catwoman,

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Speaker 1: one of the first things she does is break into

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Speaker 1: the department store by her boss, right, and these two

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Speaker 1: guards see her and she's in this very sexual sexualized outfit,

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Speaker 1: very sexy, and one of them says, oh, I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether to attack or take her home.

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Speaker 2: Or what?

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Speaker 1: Maybe says I'm in love anyway, basically should I attack

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Speaker 1: her or try to get with her? And Catwoman says,

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Speaker 1: you men, always confusing your pistols with your privates. Yes,

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Speaker 1: very solitry like too, yes, and then she just blows

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Speaker 1: up the department.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't steal jewelry.

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Speaker 3: She tells him to leave.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, doesn't Killingboddy yet yeah.

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Speaker 1: She that's when she gets the whip, her weapon, and

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Speaker 1: then when Batman attacks her, she says something like.

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Speaker 2: How dare you?

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Speaker 1: I'm a woman, but then immediately strikes back and finishes

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Speaker 1: her thought with as I was saying, I'm a woman

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Speaker 1: and can't be taken for granted. Life's a bitch now,

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Speaker 1: so am I? Hell yeah, yeah, she really leans hard.

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Speaker 1: I felt like into the hysterical label that has so

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Speaker 1: long been used against women. Right, she just went for it.

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Speaker 1: She did you gonna call me that?

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Speaker 4: Okayzy cat lady, I'm crazy cat lady exactly.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And I just want to say, talk about

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Speaker 1: some ust unresolved sexual tension.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 1: I did read a lot of accounts when people who

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Speaker 1: saw this when they were maybe adolescents and were saying

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Speaker 1: that it was a real formative.

444
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 4: It really was her licking his face along was like

445
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 4: uh huh yeah, yeah, yep.

446
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: And then yeah, after your Batman kind of offers her

447
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 1: this fairy tale ending, she refuses and instead she dies

448
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: getting her revenge on Shrek.

449
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 2: But she has one life left. Some maybe she didn't

450
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: die And do you.

451
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 4: See spoiler alert, you do see her at the end,

452
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 4: do you?

453
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 2: I don't remember.

454
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 4: I remember he gets out of the car and looking

455
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 4: at the bat sign. Oh is she Yes, you are

456
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 4: the one that called it out.

457
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 2: I was checked out friend, all right.

458
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 4: So when this movie came out, it was in the

459
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 4: middle of the third wave feminism, and some people have

460
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 4: interpreted Catwoman's storyline as a feminist awaking and finding identity.

461
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 3: I would agree with that.

462
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 4: One of her first acts as Catwoman is rescuing a

463
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 4: woman from rape and then braiding that woman for acting

464
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 4: like a victim.

465
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: And she's not looking to be a hero.

466
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,199
Speaker 4: She's just enraged and knocking and looking to break the

467
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,479
Speaker 4: patriarchal system. She's angry, and everyone who participate in it,

468
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 4: in her mind, allows to continue it. So as she says,

469
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 4: you make it easy, don't you always waiting for some

470
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 4: Batman to save you?

471
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 3: I am Catwoman, hear me roar Yeah.

472
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 2: That was the first thing she did when she got out.

473
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: And she even says to the potential the victim, the

474
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: man attacking her, go easy on me.

475
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: It's my first time.

476
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, because he was like what.

477
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 4: So Also, perhaps she's yelling at her past self who

478
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 4: she is saved by Batman. Early on in the movie,

479
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,719
Speaker 4: when we were talking about with the circus people, and

480
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 4: she takes the taser from that attacker and later weaponizes

481
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 4: it against her enemies, which she did actually use on

482
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 4: that clown as well, but he was already out right, she.

483
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: Uses it at the end, she puts it in her

484
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: tongue to kisses Christopher walk In, so like she's kind

485
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: of death. Yeah, she's weaponizing her sexuality, I guess you

486
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: could read it that way, and then taking this weapon

487
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: from people who would do her harm and using it

488
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: against against them.

489
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 4: Right, because he did try to have the last word

490
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 4: and tell her she's fired, she tries to kill her

491
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 4: and runs out of bullets.

492
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, with two of her lives remaining, right.

493
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: Right, And yes, we do have to talk about her outfit.

494
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: It is perhaps one of the most forfeiting outfits ever

495
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: to grease the big screen pieces of shiny black leather

496
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: stretched over her body and stable together as if to

497
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: represent the fragile nature of her psyche, or that she's

498
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: barely being whole held together. And the whip, of course,

499
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: so the whip being more about punishing and pain than

500
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: about killing.

501
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 2: And.

502
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: There was definitely some misogyny in the way critics wrote

503
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: about about her, the shell Fifer and the outfit. Here's

504
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: an example from the Rolling Stone. Off to the side,

505
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: Michael Keaton aka Bruce Wayne aka Batman was enjoying the

506
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: hell out of the moment.

507
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: Oh it was tasty.

508
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: Here was Missus two time Oscar Nomini, Missus Actors actor

509
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: Missus total get it into takes professional held in check

510
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: by a few pounds of wet second latex in a

511
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: pair of pointy years.

512
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 3: That's a weird comment.

513
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, they had to cover Michelle Pfeiffer and baby Botter

514
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: before she donned the suit, which they then vacuum packed.

515
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, she just recently talked about it during an interview

516
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 4: and about how awful it was and painful it.

517
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: Was for her.

518
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 4: So Catwomen Outfit's ranked. So many thought pieces on the

519
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 4: cat suit. There's different variations. Some see it as embracing

520
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 4: the sexual objectification of women and weaponizing it, or maybe

521
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 4: rejecting males superhero garb and thus the patriarchy and leaning

522
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 4: in hard to the feminine. So Julie Newmar, who I

523
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 4: really I watched growing up and I'm not that old,

524
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 4: so I was watching reruns.

525
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 3: Just want to put that out.

526
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 4: There before they think I'm it's okay.

527
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: To be that old. I'm not that old. I put

528
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: that out there.

529
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 4: Julie Numar, who played catwe in her first on screen

530
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 4: appearance in the nineteen sixties, wrote in a letter to

531
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 4: the Huffing to Post every girl is a catwoman, there

532
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 4: will always be a catwoman.

533
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 3: Catwoman is forever.

534
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 4: And her costume was perhaps the most tame and the

535
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 4: most kitten like. It was a black, sparkly suit reminiscent

536
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 4: of a corset around the waist, complete with a gold belt.

537
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: And of course, cattiers Lee Merriweather, who was in the.

538
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 4: Movie, wore pretty much the same thing when she played her.

539
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 4: And then there's Arthur Kit who took over from Newmar.

540
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 4: She wore the same thing but adjusted the placement of

541
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: the necklace, pulling it higher.

542
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

543
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: And then of course there's Hallie Berry, who played the

544
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: titular character in Catwoman. She wore a push up bra,

545
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: leather gloves, whips, tight leather pants and that's pretty much it. Yeah,

546
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: very dominatrid Dominatrixy. I have not seen this film. I've

547
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: seen parts of it, including the infamous catnip scene, but

548
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: I know it's about an addictive beauty cream targeted towards

549
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: women and play on the facts that all these high

550
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: beauty stands we placed on women, so we probably would

551
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: have a lot to say about it. I also know

552
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: Sharon Stone is the one behind the beauty cream. People

553
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: are like, don't be telling me share a Stone is

554
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: not hot, even if she's older.

555
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 4: Okay, right, Yes, she is beautiful and hot. And also

556
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 4: this is the one that won the Razzie. It is

557
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 4: considered it was considered one of the worst films. It's

558
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 4: pretty bad ever created. But I think also there was

559
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 4: all conversation about it being really heavy handed and it

560
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 4: was trying way too hard. I mean, one of the

561
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 4: main characters was named Affiliate Powers. Yeah, Affiliate Powers. That's

562
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 4: come on, y'all, we can do a little better. But

563
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 4: I guess it could be I was gonna say it

564
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 4: could be that we're just looking at a different woodlens,

565
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 4: because all the other ones are fairly heavy handed as well.

566
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 4: Whether it's some kind of pun whether some kind of

567
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 4: like over the top whatever.

568
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: But it just yeah, it was not a great movie.

569
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: Made me sad.

570
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 4: So you've seen it, I've seen parts of it.

571
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: Okay, finish it, Okay, all right.

572
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: Just neither of us have seen it, but from what

573
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: we have seen, yeah, yeah, left somewhere to be bless.

574
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: Some things to be desired.

575
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: And then Anne Hathaway's version, this one, she was meant

576
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: to be the most functional.

577
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: Her outfit was meant to be the most functional.

578
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: It's a black leather stealth suit and the cat ears

579
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: were the points of her night vision fancy crime goggles.

580
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: Her stilettos were weapons.

581
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned on the show before I did

582
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: used to cosplay her, and sometimes I still do. And

583
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: my experience was everybody loved that costume, but they also.

584
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: Love telling me that they didn't like Anne Hathaway.

585
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 3: Oh poor Anne.

586
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've talked about that on this show before, how

587
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: people just don't like Ann Hathaway because they see her

588
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: as prissy. She's vegan, persnickety, but really it seems to

589
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: me she just knows what she wants.

590
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 4: Well, I was gonna say Natalie would would be the same.

591
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 4: She's a vegan, all of those things, but she's not

592
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: as disliked, yeah, seemingly as Anne Hathaway is.

593
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: Maybe that's another episode.

594
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: And then we wanted to end with this for our.

595
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: Discussion of Catwoman, and Glorious Dynam's review of The Dark

596
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: Knight and Ann Hathaway's performance read I saw The Dark

597
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: Knight returns last night, and among other things, Catwoman is

598
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: a feminist superhero with the storylined and transformation of her

599
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: own plus class consciousness, a girl buddy, equal skills with

600
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: the Batman equipment, and an apartment of her own an

601
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: old town, and she gets the guy.

602
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 4: Yes she does.

603
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's that's kind of our look. Kit Batman

604
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: returns Catwoman Extra Merry Christmas.

605
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: We do have a little bit more for you, very

606
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: brief run through.

607
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: But first we have a quick break for word from

608
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: her sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor, And we're

609
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: back a.

610
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 2: Little bit with iron Man three. Yes, I'm going to

611
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 2: blaze through this.

612
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 4: That's in a minute that I've seen this one too,

613
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: and I'm not gonna lie. I have a hard time

614
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 4: remembering all.

615
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: Okay, Well I got you, I got you, all right.

616
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: So we open on Blue by Eifel sixty five.

617
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: The year is nineteen ninety nine.

618
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: Tony Stark is about to bang a scientist named Maya

619
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: Hanson played by Rebecca Hall, who has this plan all

620
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: about regenerating plants or something. He stands up an awkward

621
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: altra just Killian played by Guy Pearce, and then yes,

622
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: we skip to the present MCU timeline post Avengers as symbol,

623
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: and Tony has built a bunch of Iron Man suits

624
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: and it's Christmas time. One of the first scenes is

625
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: him trying on his new Iron Man suit to jingle bells,

626
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: kind of a sassy version of jingle bells, and Tony

627
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: is clearly distant and struggling with maybe PTSD definitely anxiety

628
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: attacks post New York City and the Avengers, which is

629
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: impacting his relationship with his wife, Pepper Potts. I didn't

630
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: think so, but a lot of places his significant.

631
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 4: Other okay said they didn't get made until after the

632
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 4: first Uh.

633
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: That the wedding was in the Avenger Heart one war.

634
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: You're right, so significant other, why I put that? Well,

635
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: I put that originally, but then everywhere I was reading

636
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,959
Speaker 1: said wife, and I was like, oh really, maybe they

637
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: got divorced and then got remarried anyway, whatever, Now not

638
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: so awkward and pretty handsome all Gillian shows up to

639
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: meet Pepper and is very flirtatious with her. Tony's head

640
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: of security suspicious stumbles on mysterious plot gets severely injured.

641
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: At the same time, you have a string of terrorist

642
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: attacks orchestrayed by a villain known as the Mandarin, and

643
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: this has the press clamoring after Tony Stark akrd Man,

644
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: asking him if he's going to do something about it,

645
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: and angry about what happened to his head of security,

646
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: Happy Stark challenges the Mandarin on live TV gives away

647
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: his home address, which I feel like is pretty obvious

648
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: where he lives, but whatever, I guess it's the challenge.

649
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. Uh So, when he.

650
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: Arrives home, Pepper is packing and also he has once

651
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: again given her a gift that she clearly doesn't want,

652
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: a huge rabbit custom made. At this point, Maya shows

653
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: up at the door and is like, hey, I think

654
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: my boss works for the Mandarin, And then all these

655
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: missiles start pulling into their house, and Tony is able

656
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: to save Pepper and Maya hadsen Rebecca Hall's character by

657
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: putting them in some of his Ironman suits and blasting

658
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: them out. He manages to escape, but not before his

659
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: suit takes major damage and is pretty much non functional.

660
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: When he lands in the middle of nowhere in Tennessee.

661
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: As he's trying to repair.

662
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: A suit, he meets a young boy who promises to

663
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: help him secure some supplies because everyone thinks Tony is dead.

664
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: And then all right.

665
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: He finds out about this project called Extremists. Extremists that

666
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: Maya was working on with Killian that experimented on injured

667
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: soldiers to regenerate lost limbs or other injuries. But it

668
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: left these soldiers unstable, like I will explode spontaneously on stable.

669
00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: Ironman.

670
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: He's like trying to figure out what he's gonna do,

671
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: how he's gonna save the day. He's on the verge

672
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: of a panic attack when the kid says, build something.

673
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: You build things, right, just go build something, So he

674
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 2: goes back to his roots.

675
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: And as this is happening, Pepper is captured by Maya,

676
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: who is working for Killian and is used in the

677
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: extremist experiment. Killian even tells her that she is a

678
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: trophy when she's strapped into this pod in a sportsbra

679
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: and type pants. Then Tony is captured after he discovers

680
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: that the Mandarin is just an English actor pretending to

681
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: be a terrorist. And this is a big twist in

682
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 1: the movie because he's a huge villain in the comics.

683
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: Tony is He attempts to break out, but then Maya

684
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 1: tries to save him when he fails, and then Killian

685
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: just shoots her instead of listening to her because she's like,

686
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: you won't be able to solve your problems without me,

687
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm your scientist, and he just kills her. The President

688
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: has been captured, and this all culminates in a battle

689
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: between a superhuman Killian and his Crony's Tony, his pal

690
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: Iron Patriot played by Don Cheatle, and a bunch of

691
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 1: automated Iron suits, with the President and Pepper's lives hanging

692
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: literally in balance. The President is saved, but Pepper falls

693
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: into a pit of lava, seemingly to her death.

694
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: Killian is about to kill Tony.

695
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: But then Pepper rises up from the death so hell

696
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: metaphorically and now is all temporarily superpowered. She does some

697
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: ask kicking in like two minutes or less. Then they

698
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: kick ass together. Tony destroys his Iron Man suits and

699
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: removes his arch reactor.

700
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: Day is saved. It's complicated.

701
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 4: Well, I think you just really wanted to do a

702
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 4: plant line.

703
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: I was like, I did this before I rewatched it

704
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh boy, there's so many threads here.

705
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 4: Alright, so let's talk about action figures.

706
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 2: Let Sally if you and I had.

707
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 4: Disgust and you were telling me a lot about this,

708
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 4: So as you talked about in the Female Action Figures episode,

709
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 4: Rebecca Hall's character was originally meant to be the main villain,

710
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 4: but the director was pressured by studio execs that a

711
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 4: female villain action figure wouldn't sell. And I'm sure those

712
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 4: Guy Pierce action figures left off the shell. Yeah, right,

713
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 4: And Marvel Entertainment CEO at the time, Ike Permater said,

714
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 4: there was an early draft of Iron Man three where

715
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 4: we had an inkling of a problem, which is that

716
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 4: we had a female character who was the villain.

717
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 3: In the draft.

718
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 4: We had finished the script and we were given no

719
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 4: holes barred memos saying that cannot stand. And we've changed

720
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 4: our minds because after consulting, we've decided that those toys

721
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: won't sell as well as it is female. So we

722
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 4: had to change the entire scripts because of toy making.

723
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 4: Now that's not Figy, that's Marvel Corporate. But now you

724
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 4: don't have the problem anymore.

725
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it was really frustrating. I think for a

726
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: lot of people involved in the film. I know Art

727
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: down Junior, it was like, no, you got to give

728
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: it more of a role, and I call it accepted

729
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: it on kind of a different which.

730
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 4: Happens a lot unfortunately, and especially two women unfortunately.

731
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can see her action figure episode for more

732
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: on that.

733
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 2: And then I also wanted.

734
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: To say an interesting thing about Pepper Potts is while

735
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: she spends most of her time being damseled in this

736
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 1: movie and every other iron Man although she is painted

737
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: as an extremely business savvy and competent woman. According to

738
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 1: some Internet so she kills the most people. She kills

739
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: more people than iron Man on screen. At least she

740
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: kills Ironmonger and Killian. Iron Man has only killed Ebony

741
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: Mah on screen. And then, yeah, I could come back

742
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: and talk about her character because she's painted as sort

743
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 1: of a nag, like she's never happy with Tony because

744
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: well to the bell draw, Yeah, well that's another thing

745
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: is a lot of people can't separate her from Gwyneth Paltrow.

746
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: She is used to make Tony feel jealous by the villain.

747
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 1: She does spend most of the movie in distress. She's captured, tortured,

748
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: and experimented on as bait for Tony. And then there's

749
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: a lot of talk about fake feminism and how just

750
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: because she got to kick ass for two minutes or

751
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: less that it's like execs are pointing to it. Look

752
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: how feminist, we are, right, but it ignores everything else, which.

753
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 3: Was kind of the complaint for Endgame.

754
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: Uh is it end game or is it? Yeah?

755
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is wrong with you today?

756
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of movies.

757
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 4: So within game where they had that one giant scene,

758
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 4: but they're like, hey, look, women, you did job.

759
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: Earn it? It's just so token? Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure.

760
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: And then Tony the character as well as I mean

761
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: he's a womanizer. He says a lot of things in

762
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: the movie that are not great. There's like a beauty

763
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: pageant that's not explained. There's all these women in bikinis

764
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: running around such as things like that, and then random trivia.

765
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 2: I didn't know this.

766
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: Robert Downey Junior got injured in the middle of filming

767
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: and was down for the count for six weeks, and

768
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: since they couldn't hold up production for that long, the

769
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: creators made up a completely digital version of him for

770
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: shots that didn't require dialogue our close ups, so you

771
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 1: can try to find the fake any Stark in there.

772
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was just a quick look at another

773
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: superhero holiday movie.

774
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 4: Just a minute, you just want to talk about the MCU.

775
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: I did, I did, And we do have a tiny,

776
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: tiny bit more about the MCU, But first, one more

777
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: quickbreak for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.

778
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, and we're back with a special mention

779
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: Spider Verse.

780
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: Spider Man into the Spider Verse.

781
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 4: Oh y'all, I'm gonna I really am gonna live stream

782
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 4: I your reaction.

783
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: The joy I feel watching that movie. It's exhilarating. It

784
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 1: makes my face hurt.

785
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 4: It's like you're watching it for the first time. I know,

786
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 4: the shock that you go through, the emotion through the

787
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:51,959
Speaker 4: whole time.

788
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: And yes, I was.

789
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: This is the movie I chose from movie Crush right,

790
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: the podcast by our friend Chuck. And eventually he had

791
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: to he was like, any we've got to stop talking.

792
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: But I haven't told you about the other things. The

793
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 2: frame rate. Let me talk more about the frame rate.

794
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: But I did want to mention it because it's one

795
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: of my favorite movies of all time and it takes

796
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: place at Christmas. If you remember, Chris Pine's og Spider

797
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 1: Man is featured on a holiday album in the movie,

798
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: and the cast actually recorded several holiday songs that you

799
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: can listen to and by if you want, including Spidey,

800
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: It's cold outside, Swing around the Mistletoe, Silent Night, You're welcome,

801
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: joy to the world that I just saved Spidy the

802
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 1: Snowman is beginning to look a lot like a non

803
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: denominational holiday.

804
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 3: Yeah.

805
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 4: I think the only part that I realized it was

806
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 4: holiday was because that song randomly comes on in the

807
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 4: security guards room.

808
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 3: Yes, and then that's it.

809
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's a holiday.

810
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: There's snow, there's Christmas trees. If you look, it's diverse,

811
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: it's gorgeous. It has fleshed out female, badass, vulnerable characters

812
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: like Spider gwn.

813
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: Penny Parker antme, what a great villain.

814
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 3: It was a good villain.

815
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

816
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 4: So, Phil Lord and Christopher Miller's goal for the film

817
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 4: inspire young people to become heroes, inspire grown ups to

818
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 4: help them do it, and remind us all that you

819
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 4: don't need to be bitten by radio active spiders.

820
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 2: Do your part.

821
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: You are powerful, and we are counting on you.

822
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm pointing to Annie right now.

823
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 2: Yes, so I want does.

824
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: He say not you necessarily probably better phorkly speaking, No, no, no, no, no,

825
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: they are counting on you necessarily. But yeah, that's just

826
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: what we wanted to say about some less traditional holidays.

827
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so there you go.

828
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 4: Are not so christmas y Christmas movies, which is the

829
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 4: way I like it. I will tell you once again,

830
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 4: I do do a lot of like I said, do

831
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 4: do a lot of horror movies. Yeah, during this time

832
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 4: because I do not like I'm not a fan of

833
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 4: the season. I'm not trying to be a grenchsarily, but

834
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 4: you know, you have to cope with things the way

835
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:55,439
Speaker 4: you can.

836
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 3: Cope with it.

837
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 4: So let us know you're not so Christmas thee Christmas

838
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 4: movie recommendation. And I would also consider die Hard, which

839
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 4: I know has been a.

840
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: Debate action movie that takes place at Christmas.

841
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 4: Yes, and all. A lot of the Harry Potters is

842
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 4: Christmas movies as well.

843
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we watched you know, definitely a little bit.

844
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 4: I feel like the first the first two are the

845
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 4: ones that I would consider Christmas.

846
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 3: Happy Christmas. Harry, Yeah, I think he.

847
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: Does it is Christmas at one point and definitely have

848
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: part one though, is it? Yeah, when he goes to

849
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: visit his parents graves, That's.

850
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 3: Right, That's right.

851
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 4: So yeah, let us know your recommendations because I would

852
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 4: love to know more and to watch more movies that

853
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 4: are not Yes, the Netflix movies that I'm seeing don't.

854
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 3: I don't want to.

855
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: Watch those, yes, And let us know what we should

856
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: do for our next feminist movie Friday. And also if

857
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: you have any feminist movie thoughts. I know we moved

858
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: through those pret quickly, but so if you have any

859
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: thoughts about them that we missed it, we would love

860
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: to hear them. You can email us at Stuff Media,

861
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on

862
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You and on Twitter

863
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our super

864
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: producer and Drew Howard. Thanks to you for listening.

865
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: Steph.

866
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: I've Never Told You's a production of iHeart Radios. How

867
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: Stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the

868
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

869
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: favorite shows.

870
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: Jingle Bills, Batman's Bills, We Laid and Eggs No okay,