1 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: We're here, we're live while we're recording this live. Welcome 2 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. My name is Ben. We are, 3 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: of course, joined with our super producer, Casey pegram my 4 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: trustee co host Noel is off on some lovely adventures 5 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: on the other side of the country, but we'll return 6 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: very soon. Speaking of returning, we are incredibly fortunate today 7 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: to have our returning guest host joining us, Christopher Haciotis. 8 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming, man, Thanks for having me, Ben, Thanks 9 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,319 Speaker 1: for having me, Casey. No wherever you are, whenever you are, 10 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: however you are, thank you. Yes, oh man, I can't 11 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: wait until I hope we can reveal some of the 12 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: cool stuff that Nola is working on. But I what 13 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: I really wish were happening right now is that we 14 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: would talk about Noel not being here and then anyone 15 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: listening to this podcast would just slowly turn around and 16 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: he's standing right behind them. Oh that's great. No, that's 17 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: that's my dream. It's my dream. But it was also 18 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: it was Halloween recently, so maybe I'm still in that mindset. 19 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: I'm definitely still in that mindset. Oh man. It's the 20 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: most wonderful time of the year. I love Halloween. What hey, 21 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: what did you do for Halloween? Dressed up as a 22 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: woodland creature? I was kind of Wolfe took the family 23 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: around the neighborhood and did not accept any candy because 24 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: we've got a little baby who's not old enough for 25 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: candy yet. And I would feel like a real bomb 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: taking candy from taking candy for a baby who couldn't 27 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: eat it under the pretenses that it's served really for 28 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: me and I grown man, I can afford my own candy. There, 29 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: there you go. That's that speaks high really. Uh, that 30 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: speaks to your character in a in a very complimentary way. 31 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: Your candy ethics are on point. I think that's something 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: to be proud of. Thank you. I would have done 33 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: the opposite. You would have just a baby around. Yes, yeah, 34 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: I did think like maybe it would be fun to 35 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: push a stroll around the neighborhood, but with no baby 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: in there and just be the person with an empty stroller. 37 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: Oh that's weird. That's weird, Christopher. But uh, it's not 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: Halloween anymore, right, we should divest these spooky thoughts from ourshole. 39 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: I'm always so reluctant to give up the ghost Halloween. 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: But you're right, things move on progress. That's the name 41 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 1: of the game for the human species, hopefully in the theory. 42 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: And today's episode is something that I thought would be 43 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: fascinating for anybody who's a fan of words and one 44 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 1: who's a fan of writing. Today's episode is about the 45 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: strange origin of the Oxford English Dictionary. Now, this is 46 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: something that you and I in particular, have have used 47 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: pretty frequently over the years. I have, Yeah, dictionaries of 48 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: many kinds, I think coming super handy. Um, whether you're 49 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: a professional writer, whether you're an amateur writer, whether you 50 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: don't really care about writing at all, but you want 51 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: to know what a word means, you can look it 52 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: up in the dictionary. It's a great thing. Yeah, And 53 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: it's funny that you mentioned this because Noel and I 54 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: will often have conversations where we one of us is 55 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: on a rant about something and then we decide to 56 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: use a word because it sounds particularly enticing, you know, 57 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: only too later, usually when it's just the two of 58 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: us hanging out, only for us to later go okay, 59 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: one of us needs to look that up and make 60 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: sure it means what we think it means. We're using 61 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: the right meaning where you were saying it properly. I mean, 62 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: that's what the dictionary is for. But also that's what 63 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: Facebook is for, too, right, and social media. I've think 64 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: anyone who is anyone in the podcast world is very 65 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: familiar with mispronounced words. Uh there's a lot of words 66 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: out there, and you might accidentally say something a little incorrectly. 67 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: But we rely on people like Ridiculous Historians the Facebook 68 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: group associated with this fine podcast to point out in 69 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: a constructive and critical manner, any foible, any misstep, any 70 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: misuse of award. Oh man, you really put us on 71 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: the tight rope here. Man. All right, well, let's let's 72 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: give it a go. The Oxford English Dictionary has been 73 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: around for a long time, but perhaps not as long 74 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: as many of us would assume. The work on the 75 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: dictionary began. I guess in a larger historical context is 76 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: fairly recent. It began in eighteen fifty seven. Yeah, well 77 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: that's when there was a call put out for a 78 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: collection of words, a definition of words banning the twelfth 79 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: century to the present day. At the time. Um work 80 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: actually didn't get underway though, until the late eighteen seventies. 81 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: Eighteen seventy nine, I believe. And it took five years 82 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: for the first volume of the O E. D As 83 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: the kids on the street call it to be published 84 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: right right, And here we introduce our first character for 85 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: this story, a fellow named Professor James Murray. It was 86 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: a challenging assignment for Murray, who was the editor of 87 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: this of this dictionary. The way the process worked was 88 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: relatively simple. People would send in entries for words, and 89 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: the Oxford English Dictionary functions as what's called an historical dictionary, 90 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: meaning it will talk about the development of a word 91 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: rather than just its present day usage. So you'll see 92 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: a little bit of etymology in the dictionary, will see 93 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: a lot of etymology. I mean the thing. The thing 94 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: about the Oxford English Dictionary is it's it doesn't us 95 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: give you the definition of the word, right, it goes 96 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: into the history of the word. We said, the first 97 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: volume of the dictionary wasn't published until four I mean, 98 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: this was a lifelong pursuit from Murray and his team. 99 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: The final volume of the dictionary wasn't published until that's crazy, Yeah, 100 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: that's that's insane. And and it took a lot of blood, 101 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: sweat and tears because we have to remember it was 102 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: much more difficult to aggregate information back then, you know 103 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: what I mean. These people had to literally write this 104 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: stuff out, usually by hand, and send it be a post. Yeah, 105 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: a majority of us in the modern world, and I 106 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: would assume most of us listening to this podcast, we 107 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: live in a wealth of information. We have so many 108 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: things available to us, We have so much knowledge available 109 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: to us. But I think it's really, really, really easy 110 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: to take that for granted, right, Like you just look 111 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: something up. But for you to look something up, another 112 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: human being had to have put that thing in a 113 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: place for it to be searchable in the first place. So, 114 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: I mean, imagine the task of speaking a language and thinking, 115 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: you know what, all these words we just said in 116 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: the past twenty seconds, I just used forty of them, 117 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: Let's catalog them, let's itemize them, let's label them. I mean, 118 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: this is it's a it's a crazy undertaking, it's wild. 119 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: You have to define what a language is, what is 120 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: inside the language, what's outside the language. You have to 121 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: talk to linguistics, you have to talk to anthropologists, you 122 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: have to talk to authors and books and what's gobbledegook? Right, 123 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: which is that in the dictionary. I don't know. I 124 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: believe the actually so that I think that's a very 125 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: good way to paint the picture here. Professor James Murray 126 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: knew this was going to be a huge, laborious, herculean effort. However, 127 00:07:54,080 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: he underestimated the enormity of the task. When they first read, 128 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: too edit this new English dictionary, they thought, this is 129 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: going to take a decade, and this will probably be gosh, 130 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, guys, around seven thousand pages long, uh, 131 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: in four volumes. Let's call it four volumes. But they 132 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: ended up with something much much larger. By the time 133 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: the final results are published in it's twelve volumes long. 134 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: It is comprised of four hundred and fourteen thousand, eight 135 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,559 Speaker 1: hundred twenty five words defined, and it has almost two 136 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: million citations employed to illustrate what they mean. As Murray 137 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: is working on this, he builds a corrugated iron shed 138 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: that he decides to call the Scriptorium. And the scriptorium 139 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: houses him and his small team of assistance, as well 140 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: as this deluge of slips of paper that have been 141 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: mailed to them that are each you know, an entry 142 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: in the dictionary. Yeah, and and this is all taking 143 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: place in the UK. So this is just one country, 144 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, right, this is this isn't even trying to 145 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: get the breadth of global knowledge. I do really like 146 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: the name Scriptorium. I imagine Murray having a rough day 147 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: at home, maybe the kids are being kind of a pain, 148 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 1: and he storms out of his house, slams the door, said, 149 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to the Scriptorium. I can't handle this. To 150 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: the scriptorium, to the Scriptorium. I am just gonna start 151 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: saying that I am going to find something in our office. 152 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: I'm gonna label it the scriptorium. It won't be this 153 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: studio that's two on the nose, but I'm looking for 154 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: a scriptorius. Next time you shout I'm off to the scriptorium. 155 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to see all of our co workers 156 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: look around the musedly and confusedly and befuddledly and uh, 157 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: but you and I will share something there we go. 158 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: I'll know what you're doing, and you for listening. In casey, 159 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: are you in on this? I'm totally in Casey on 160 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: the case, ladies and gentlemen. So as as people are 161 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: responding to this call, this this crowdsourcing of dictionary entries. 162 00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: Professor Murray begins to notice that there's one shy meaning 163 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: star out of all of his correspondence, the most prolific, 164 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: the most consistent correspondent, the man who was sent in 165 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: more than ten thousand entries to this developing dictionary, a 166 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: guy named doctor William C. Minor. All that Murray knows 167 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: about Minor is that he is a doctor who was 168 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: a surgeon. He lives in Crowthorne, in the English countryside 169 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: in Berkshire, and Murray reasonably assumes that Minor must be 170 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: quote a practicing medical men of literary taste with a 171 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: good deal of lesio. I like, yeah, sounds like the 172 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: kind of guy who would send in, uh sending entries 173 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: to the dictionary the Dictionary Project. Did they call it 174 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: the Dictionary Project at the time? I think they did. 175 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: I mean, dictionaries existed before the O. E. D. So 176 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: I think the word probably was out there. And here's 177 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: here's where we introduce our second character, doctor William Chester Minor, 178 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: an American. Yeah, so you've got this American guy who's 179 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: uh contributing to one of the pillars of the English language. 180 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: What do we know about Dr Minor? Well, we know 181 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: that as you said he does reside in the UK. 182 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: He was an American, not only an American, but a surgeon. 183 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: Not only a surgeon, but a veteran, a veteran he 184 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: but he he also had sort of a global background, right, 185 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: so he existed in a world where many languages were 186 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: available to him. His parents were from New England. They 187 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: were missionaries, and Minor was actually born in Ceylon, which 188 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: today is known as Sri Lanka. So he grew up 189 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: in um the son of the son of Americans in 190 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: a former British colony. A lot of languages are kind 191 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: of swirling around him. He's in that milieu. Uh. He 192 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: comes back to the U S and he ends up 193 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: fighting in the Civil War. Mm hmmm. He's fighting, but 194 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: he's working as a surgeon, right, so he's he's a 195 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: medical doctor. He's in the Civil War. He experiences some 196 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: horrific things, as many people did. But um, it seems 197 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: to have really taken a toll on Dr Minor, on 198 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: his mental health, on his well being. Really rough stuff. 199 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: I mean, he was in situations where he saw sort 200 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: of incendiary attacks. He witnessed other soldiers burning to death. Yeah, 201 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: this is terrible, um ben I don't know if you 202 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: know about this, but what Dr Minor was ordered to 203 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: do to a certain deserter, right, yeah, it's it's a 204 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: terrible story. So he served, as you said, in various 205 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: incredibly bloody conflicts, including the Battle of the Wilderness in 206 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty four, which was a blood bath. The particular 207 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: story we're talking about now concerns an Irish soldier in 208 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: the Union Army. Minor was told to punish the soldier 209 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: carry out his punishment by branding him on the face 210 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: with a hot iron with a capital D for deserter. Yeah. 211 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: So this was was an Irish citizen who was fighting 212 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: for the cause of the Union but decided he was 213 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: done with the battle, wanted to leave, wanted to leave 214 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: the army was I assume captured putting the brig and 215 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: uh and Minor was ordered to brand this guy against 216 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: his wishes, against the wishes of both of them, I think, 217 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: and this haunts him, This affects him for the rest 218 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: of his life. At the end of the American Civil War, 219 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: he is still serving. He's in New York City for 220 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: a time. He spends a lot of his time living 221 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: in the c d underbelly of New York. If he's 222 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: not working, he's off in the red light district, cavorting, 223 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: having a having some frolic time, right, I mean, it's 224 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: it's it's not uncommon for soldiers who come home from 225 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: war to have a really rough time, to look for 226 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: solace in places they might not otherwise have in the past, 227 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: to have a hard time keeping things together, too, undertake 228 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: risky activity too, I mean, even to see things that 229 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: aren't there, to imagine a reality that doesn't line up 230 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: with the reality experience by the majority of us. Absolutely, 231 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: and by eighteen sixty seven, the Army is completely done 232 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: with his behavior. They find that it is unethical and 233 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: a moral so they transfer him to a remote post 234 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: in Florida. And we're gonna, let's let's pause right there, 235 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: because Professor Murray doesn't know any of this. He doesn't 236 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: know anything about miners past. He only knows that the 237 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: guy has medical knowledge, seems to be living in either 238 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: retirement or he's relatively well off. And the guy has 239 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: a lot of time on his hands, and he loves words. Yeah, 240 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: so that's a that's a little background about Minor and 241 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: and and Minor is sending in these entries to the 242 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: Oxford English Dictionary Project to Professor Murray, and they seem 243 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: to be really great entries. They're really detailed, they're really varied, 244 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: they are voluminous, they are deeply researched. What Professor Murray 245 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: did not know was that his most faithful correspondent and 246 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: contributor was writing to him from a lunatic asylum where 247 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: he was confined for committing homicide. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's 248 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: the that's the strangest part of it, And it sounds 249 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: like something you could maybe have a weird, nervous laugh about, 250 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: but the story itself is quite tragic. It turns out 251 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: that Dr Minor was not in full possession of his faculties. Yeah, 252 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: and at this point he had moved to London, right right, Okay, 253 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: So he was diagnosed in eighteen sixty eight as delusional 254 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: and he was considered a suicide and homicide risk. So 255 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: with his consent, he was admitted to the Government Hospital 256 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: for the Insane and washing d C and officially retired 257 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: from the U. S. Army. In eighteen seventy one, he 258 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: was released and he visited his family and friends and 259 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: then boardered his ship to London, hoping that a change 260 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: of scenery would quote cure him, but his paranoia followed 261 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,359 Speaker 1: him across the Atlanta And that's that's a not uncommon 262 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: treatment at the time. I mean, we're back in the 263 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: days before modern psychology, certainly before modern psychiatric drugs and 264 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: any sort of treatment talk, therapy, any sort of rehabilitation 265 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: like that. I mean, there's just a lunatic asylum or 266 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: a change of scenery. You know, maybe maybe something different 267 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: will be nice for him. Maybe being in the United 268 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: States is reminding him of the horrors he witnessed. Maybe 269 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: he's too close to the brothels. Let's just let's send 270 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: him to England. Yeah, and his family had the means 271 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: to support this travel because it was an opportunity that 272 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: many people at the time could not have reasonably pursued. 273 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: But the problem was that his untreated mental condition began 274 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: to worsen. He was having delusions, he was having crazy 275 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: mood swings, and he was sinking deeper and deeper into paranoia. 276 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: Particularly as his condition escalated, he would become more and 277 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: more fixated on paranoid thoughts about people with Irish nationality 278 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: due to that horrible story you mentioned earlier, when he 279 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: had to brand the guy in the face. He settles 280 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: originally in place called Lambeth. Yeah, and Lambeth Street is 281 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: it's in London. Um, it's kind of a seedy neighborhood. Um. 282 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: And this I think is the point when we should 283 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: introduce the next character in this tale, this tragedy. Um. 284 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: If we want to call it a tragedy, we're not 285 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: the only ones, because this is what ends up being 286 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: called at the time, the Lambeth Tragedy. George Merritt is 287 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: the next entry into this tale. George Merritt is a 288 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: working man. He takes a walk every day to the 289 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: Red Lion Brewery in London. And one day he's taking 290 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: a walk and he encounters Dr Miner, and Dr Miner, 291 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: who is in the grips of a mental episode, feels 292 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: threatened right by George Merritt, believes that Merritt has broken 293 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: into his room at some point and shoots and kills George. Yeah. 294 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: And this is this is where I you know, I 295 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: tried to find some newspaper reports in the time, and 296 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: it's really unclear to me, and I think this is 297 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: just the case in in reporting at the time, But 298 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly whether Merritt was trying to enter 299 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: a door near where Minor was living, or if this 300 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: this happened near the brewery or well, so the records 301 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: show that Merritt was shot in the back as he 302 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: was walking away from Minor. Right, so, Minor perhaps was 303 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: in his home experiencing one of these delusions and just 304 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: burst out onto the street and thought that the first 305 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,239 Speaker 1: person he saw was the imagined culprit m. And of 306 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: course the authority has become involved. There is a trial, 307 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: and during the trial the full extent of miners insanity 308 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: becomes revealed for the first time in public, and that's 309 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: that's part of what propels the Lambeth tragedy to the 310 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: stage of international news. Miner is eventually judged not guilty 311 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: on grounds of insanity, and he is sent to be 312 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: detained in England's newest asylum, but they don't ever say 313 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: how long he's going to be there. I think this 314 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: is the sort of thing where, you know, on on 315 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: the one hand, you can see this as a um 316 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: un enlightened treatment. You know, he's not just put to 317 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: death from murder. You know, it seems like they're doing 318 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: the nice thing. They're sending him off to a place 319 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: where he can be away from people he might harm. 320 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: But there's an understanding that there's something um not chemically 321 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: operating in the mind. It's maybe not entirely his fault, right, 322 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: So he sent to broad Moore, which is a place 323 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: for the criminally insane. That sounds like a nice thing, 324 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: but the conditions weren't amazing. And people at the time, 325 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like they were called patients. They 326 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: weren't treated as um folks with a medical issue. These 327 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: the people at broad Moore were referred to as criminals 328 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: or as lunatics. Basically, you're looking at a situation where 329 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: you're putting a room, the door is locked, and there's 330 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: not a lot of treatment. You're just removed from society. 331 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: Minor did have his own cell, and Minor actually had 332 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: a second cell, right, so he had two adjoining cells, 333 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: the second of which was used for his significant, currently 334 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: voluminous collection of antiquarian books. That's right. He was living 335 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: the high life, well compared to other inmates or other patients. 336 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: But the didn't call the patients. They call him lunatics 337 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: and criminals, right, So he had this extensive collection of books. 338 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: He was a very it's a very well read person, 339 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: and the American Vice Consul General directly intervened to allow 340 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: Dr Minor to have these amenities. Right, although he's in 341 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: England and he had committed his crime there, he's still 342 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: a U. S. Citizen and um a veteran of the 343 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: Union Army, so there's some consideration being given. And he 344 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: has correspondence as well. The the entire time, he has 345 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: relationships with book dealers, booksellers in Oxford in particular, and 346 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: it is through this association that he hears about the 347 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: open call for submissions to what will become the Oxford 348 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: English Dictionary. And so a lot of this has lost 349 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: to history, but we can reasonably imagine what Dr Miner's 350 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: reaction was. It's not like he's gonna go travel anywhere. 351 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: It's not like he is living a super stressful life 352 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: full of deadlines. As recounted in a fantastic book called 353 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: The Professor and the Madman, a Tale of Murder, Insanity 354 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: and the Making of the Oxford English Dictionary by Simon Winchester, 355 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: and I came out in Yes, that is correct. As 356 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: recounted in this book, Minor saw this as somewhat of 357 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: an escape, you know what I mean? It's a way, 358 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: it's a way to his body, maybe in these four walls, 359 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: but it's a way for him to send his thoughts 360 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: and his influence beyond his cell. Absolutely, and it's a 361 00:22:54,600 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: necessary escape, right. But he knew regard list of his 362 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: stability at the time. He knew that his submissions might 363 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: run the chance of being rejected. Essentially, he might not 364 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: be able to play the game if you revealed too 365 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: much about himself. So he always signed his letters the 366 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: same way Broadmoor, crowth Or in Berkshire. And that means 367 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: his identity remained enigmatic to everybody who's working on the 368 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: dictionary for years and years and years. Murray and Minor 369 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: never meet no And and at this point he kind 370 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: of builds up his own reputation, not based on who 371 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: he is, not based on the letters after his name. 372 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: If he's a you know, you don't have this weight 373 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: of authority from your job, from your name, from your class. 374 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: This authority that he gains with the O E. ED 375 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: Project is based solely on his work and through these submissions, 376 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: I mean they prove invaluable because he's got this collection 377 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: of antiquarian books, books that are out of print, books 378 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: that are ancient books that are are not widely used. 379 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: So he's coming through these books. He comes up with 380 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: this massive index of thousands of words. He defines them, 381 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: he provides their use in a sentence, which you know, 382 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: it sounds like a spelling be kind of thing, right, 383 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: But that's how you know what a word is. And 384 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: the way you define a word is to see how 385 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: it's used. And if you want to look at a 386 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: word that you don't know or that other people don't know, 387 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: you have to show how it has been used in 388 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: the past. And that's where his collection of books comes 389 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: in super handy. Yeah, and eventually you'll you'll hear a 390 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: couple of different counts of this. But eventually Murray decides 391 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: that he has to meet his most valuable contributor. And 392 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: this this comes to a head in eighteen seven. There's 393 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: an event they're going to hold called the Great Dictionary Dinner, 394 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: and Murray is very much looking forward to meeting his 395 00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: mysterious again, most prolific, most accurate correspondent. But a guy 396 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: doesn't show up. Yeah, So, I mean they've been working 397 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: on this dictionary, they put all this work into it, 398 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: They have all these different contributors, they have people they 399 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: rely on greatly. I mean think of this as the 400 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: you know, on on on Wikipedia, the people who have 401 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: the verified accounts yelp, the super whatever yelper, you know, 402 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: like he's he's one of the insiders. And he's invited, 403 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: we're told, and he doesn't show up right, and so 404 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,959 Speaker 1: Minor says, you know what, I'm gonna be the change. 405 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go visit this guy. So he travels to 406 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: Broadmore and he sees this. We can paint the scene here. 407 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: He sees this huge Victorian mansion and he's justifying those assumptions, right, 408 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: they feel like they're being verified since okay, well yeah, 409 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: I mean he'd never been there. The story goes that 410 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: he thought so he had this address, and so he 411 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: thinks like, okay, like this must be where a professor 412 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: lives or a doctor, a medical man, a nice house. 413 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: So he shows up and he sees this massive institution. 414 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: He says, huh, I thought it was on to someone's house. 415 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: This is an institution. I guess he's mailing me from 416 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: his office. Yeah, he's probably the director or something like that. 417 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: So he so he started to realize things are a 418 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: little wonky, and he's just finding the most plausible explanation 419 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: he can for it. And like you said, Christopher, he thinks, okay, well, 420 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: this guy is a director of this asylum, because you 421 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: can see the side. He knows it's in asylum now 422 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: and and you know it may even have lightning bolts 423 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: in the background. Or that's how I imagine when you 424 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: when you happen upon an asylum that you didn't know 425 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: was an asylum. Thunder and lightning. We've all been there, 426 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: and it's the storm begins and you have to stay 427 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: there for the night, right, and the strings start rising 428 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: and the fog starts rolling in or clear. So not 429 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: done with Halloween, It's in me forever. So he goes 430 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: to this is a true story, folks. He goes into 431 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: the asylum. He meets the director of the asylum and 432 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: he assumes that the director of the asylum is the 433 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: famous and mysterious Doctor Minor. No, says the director, the 434 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: doctor is an inmate. Would you like to see his rooms, 435 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: to which Murray, uh, Murray says yeah, yeah, sure, um 436 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: to paint a picture for the listeners and ridiculous historians 437 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: out there. At this point, what Dr Minor looks like 438 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: is uh a little wise and fully bearded. I would 439 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: describe him as sort of a cross between Dumbledore Dumble. 440 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: There's a little bit of Dumbledore and a little bit 441 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: of Gandolf. Gandalf the White not the Gray, because he's 442 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: got this like massive white beard. You know, it's like 443 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: very prophetorial but very learned looking um but clearly has 444 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: been kind of locked up for a while. Yeah, and 445 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: has just very e in professor. In The Madman, he 446 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: is described as having very gentle eyes that make him 447 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: somewhat resemble portraits of money, which I thought I thought 448 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: was poetic and very kind. We do want to say 449 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: there is one indication that Murray had some inkling of 450 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: something being wrong with Dr Minor because a visitor from 451 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: America in the late eighteen eighties had thanked Murray for 452 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: his kindness to poor Dr Minor. He didn't really know. 453 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: He knows something was up, and that's something. Yeah, if 454 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: if you if you either Winchester book, you'll find that 455 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: there's there's that story which we've just recounted, which is 456 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: kind of the summarized and popularized version of events. Winchester 457 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: really digs into that and and kind of calls into 458 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: question how true it is um and or how close 459 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: to true it is there Like, as you mentioned, there's 460 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: some question about what Murray knew and when and the 461 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: time of events. And this story did come out at 462 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: the time, and I think was probably kind of summarized 463 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,479 Speaker 1: and popularized by newspaperman at the time. Yeah. Yeah, they 464 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: were right about as it was occurring. We do know, however, 465 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: that when they finally did meet, they became genuine friends 466 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: for a long time, and Murray would continue to visit 467 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: Minor at the asylum. Again, this is the sort of 468 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: it's the sort of relationship built on words and work 469 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: and trust built that way. So you could consider it 470 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: a nineteenth century cat fishing if you want, but I 471 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: don't see it that way. You know, they saw the 472 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: value in one another. Murray value the knowledge of Minor, 473 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: and I think this is also a good lesson. I 474 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: don't know that the lesson was taken at the time, 475 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: but I think for us looking back, it's a really 476 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: valuable way to see that people who are incarcerated, people 477 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: who have mental conditions, people who are struggling with debilitation, 478 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: don't lose their value either to themselves, to their friends, 479 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: or to society. You can have a mental breakdown. You 480 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: can lose an aspect of your personality, of your life. 481 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean you've lost your intelligence. It doesn't mean 482 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: you've lost the knowledge you've accrued over the years. Um. Again, 483 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: we can also, you know, I feel like films like 484 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: a Beautiful Mind or these these sort of other films 485 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: can romanticize mental illness too and say that it's a 486 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: that it's it's a struggle that's got to be overcome. 487 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: Um it's a tricky line. I mean, it's it's a 488 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: it's a messy thing to deal with, absolutely, and sometimes 489 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: there are no clear answers for how best to navigate 490 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: the situation, especially back then, and it's it just speaks. 491 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: It speaks so highly to Professor Murray's character that he 492 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: doesn't reject this guy. He sees, as you said, Christopher, 493 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: the merit of miners work, and he continues to visit him. 494 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: He says, you know what, nobody's perfect, but this guy 495 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: is great at assembling these citations, hunting stuff down for him. 496 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: We need to keep him in the game. And he 497 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: spoke very highly of Minor for the rest of his life. 498 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: Life in he said, we could easily illustrate the last 499 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: four centuries from doctor Minors quotations alone. Yeah, I mean 500 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: his work was invaluable. His work was invaluable, and unfortunately 501 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: his condition continued to worsen. In nineteen o two, he 502 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: began having delusions that he was being abducted from his 503 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: rooms at night and taken around the world where he 504 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: was forced to commit sexual assault. And because of this, 505 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: during during one delusional episode, he castrated himself, which is 506 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: um a very messy thing. Luckily, you know, he's a surgeon, 507 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: so he at least knew enough, uh new enough to 508 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: do it without killing himself, and his health continued to worsen. Yeah, 509 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,239 Speaker 1: that's not the sort of thing that's gonna pushut your 510 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: health into a better true and Murray, his faithful friend, 511 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: now not just a colleague, begins a campaign on Miner's behalf, 512 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: and he says, this guy has been locked up in 513 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: here for decades. He's one of the most important contributors 514 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: to what I feel is one of the most important 515 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: books in the world after the Bible. He's harmless. Can 516 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: we let him out? And so Minor is, by direct 517 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: orders from Home Secretary Winston Churchill, released from the asylum 518 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen ten, he's released. He's instantly deported back to 519 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: the United States, and he lives at St. Elizabeth's Hospital, 520 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: where he is officially diagnosed with what at the time 521 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: they called dementia pray Cocks, which was chronic deteriorating psychotic 522 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: disorder that usually began in the late teens or early adulthood. 523 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: This term was gradually eventually replaced by the term schizophrenia. Yeah, 524 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: so it's the kind of thing that he likely was 525 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: experiencing internally physically, and then was um, I don't know, yeah, 526 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: triggered or or enhanced by his experiences in the war, right, exactly, exactly. 527 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: And in nineteen twenty, Dr Minor passes away in Hartford, Connecticut. 528 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: He had been moved in nineteen nineteen to a retreat 529 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: for the quote elderly insane. James Murray passes away in 530 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen. And if you remember from our earlier mentioned 531 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: the dictionary, the final results of the Oxford English Dictionary 532 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: were not published until nineteen So neither doctor Minor nor 533 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: Professor Murray ever got to witness or direct, you know, 534 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: they never got to hold the book. Yeah. The their 535 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: their life's work. It literally was their life's work and 536 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: they did not live to see a completion. I mean, 537 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: but that's that's the story of so many great accomplishments 538 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: in human culture. And you think about something like the 539 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: Sagratta Familiathedral in Barcelona, that that Gaudy was working on it. 540 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: He died decades ago and it's still underway. You know. 541 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: It's I think it's admirable to think that you might 542 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: contribute something to human knowledge and the human culture, that 543 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: you will put a process in motion. And you know, 544 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: granted Murray, Murray thought it would just take a brief 545 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: period of time to wrap up this dictionary thing, put 546 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: a couple of words on a page, this, that and 547 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: the other, and we're done. Uh No, I mean, we 548 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: we're talking like it goes well into the twenties. But 549 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: to to set something in motion that goes beyond yourself 550 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: is something, you know, not a lot of us get 551 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: to do. And learning the stories of the people behind 552 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: these contributions to society is so valuable because I mean 553 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: you think about like the mathematicians, for instance, the women 554 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: who contributed to the Nazi missions, uh that were written 555 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: about in Hidden Figures, and there was a movie. It's 556 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: super important for us to know that everything we're talking 557 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: about in history was accomplished through human undertaking. You just 558 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: gotta decide to do something, get past any structural road 559 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: box that are in the way, but push forward, and 560 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 1: I mean people can accomplish them really great things. Yeah, 561 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: it calls to mind that old proverb. What is it 562 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,399 Speaker 1: a society grows great when old men plant trees whose 563 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: shade they know they shall never sit in? Have you 564 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: ever heard that one? I haven't? Like. Yeah, it's and 565 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: that's that's the kind of inspiring noble thing. We know 566 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: that the Oxford English Dictionary is, in a very real 567 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: way a guide post for the entirety of the English language. 568 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: And you know, I think we misuse the words sometimes, 569 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: but it's it's noble. It's truly noble to be able 570 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: to participate in something of that, uh, that level of significance. 571 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: And here's hoping that we can all get a chance 572 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 1: to create something like this. You know, that's a that's 573 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 1: a that's at all order. But we can try what 574 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 1: you don't want to, we're kind of dictionary with me 575 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. Uh, do you tell 576 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: me about your benefits? But what are you what are 577 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: you offering, Uh, you know, I've got a I've got 578 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 1: a special on um guest special on Derrito's okay, because 579 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 1: of my relationship with Robert Evans on Behind the Bastards, 580 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: um Ben. Have you ever have you ever actually so, 581 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: have you accessed the O E ED digitally? Have you 582 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: held a copy of the book itself? Yeah? I mean 583 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 1: these things are massive, like the huge books, so dense. 584 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: Um the one now that are like the most current 585 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: one that was kind of setting stone in the nineties, 586 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 1: has like five hundred thousand words. I don't know if 587 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: you've seen this. Some friends of mine and I M 588 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: a while ago, gave a friend this as a wedding present. 589 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: But you can buy the entire Oxford English Dictionary in 590 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 1: a compressed version. So it's kind of like the size 591 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: of a big book, but it it's in it's in 592 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: two volumes, kind of hard bound, comes in a box, 593 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: but it's the whole thing in there, and it comes 594 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: with a magnifying glass. Yes, yes, yes, it's so the 595 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: print is so small you've really got to get in there. 596 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: But it's it's all of it. I mean we're talking 597 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: like more than two million citations. Like it's just it's 598 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: so dense and the look that magnifying glass is not 599 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: some cute marketing thing. You need it? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 600 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: And I don't know how people will react to this story. 601 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by I find it inspiring, you know. And 602 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: I really appreciate what you said about mental illness not 603 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: negating somebody's value or they're worth in the world. And 604 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: Christopher has been an absolute pleasure to have you on 605 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: this show this week. Thanks for coming back after the 606 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: first episode. I thought you might be done. No no, 607 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: I stuck around this week. Um, but yeah, if you'll 608 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: if you'll have me back, I'll happily be back. Um. 609 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: I do want to mention one more thing about dictionaries 610 00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: just in general. I think they're super cool, you know. 611 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: And we we talked about these things that just sort 612 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,399 Speaker 1: of exist. But the very first dictionary that we had 613 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 1: in the English language was put together in the sixteen hundreds, 614 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: and it was a product of cultural mixing. It was 615 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: a product of the Renaissance. It was a product of 616 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: English incorporating so many words from other languages, from French, 617 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: from Latin, from Greek, and from Hebrew. The first dictionary 618 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 1: was really just a guide to what at the time 619 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: were weird words like the difficult ones. So the very 620 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: first dictionaries, back in the sixteenth and seventeenth century CE, 621 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: they weren't comprehensive. It was just like, Okay, everybody knows 622 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: the words we use. Here's a description of the hard ones. Yeah, yeah, 623 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And I want to hear from some of 624 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: the ridiculous historians out there. Maybe you guys can comment 625 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: on the Facebook page. Because when I was growing up, 626 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: when I was using dictionaries, I always had that one 627 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: friend who would use the dictionary too to learn how 628 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: to spell word, which always seemed crazy to me, because 629 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,279 Speaker 1: how do you look up a word if you don't 630 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: know how to spell the word already? But I know, 631 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: I know, I'm not the only one who knows someone 632 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: like that. I think even in like in the in 633 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: the Miracle Worker, right, um, maybe someone in their uses 634 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: the dictionary as a spelling guide. But maybe maybe Keller herself. 635 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: I don't know, But um, I know I'm not the 636 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: only one out there who's experienced this. Does anyone out 637 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: there do that? Or do you just use it to 638 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: define things? I've always used it to define things. I've 639 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: used it to define things. I guess you could. You 640 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: could use it to find the spelling the word. By 641 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 1: attempting to go through stumble through it, you get a 642 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: guess pre autocorrect. So it's a real pain man trying 643 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: to look up words in English demand or and Dictionary, 644 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: just because of the different you know, the idiograms versus 645 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: the it's a whole thing. Yeah, so so I I 646 00:39:54,560 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: also want to add a request to Ridiculous historians. When 647 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: this episode comes out, could you visit us on our 648 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: Facebook page and let us know some of your favorite 649 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: obscure words. We are enamored with strange, unusual and anachronistic words, 650 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: and it's no secret that the English language is chock 651 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: full of them. You know what I mean? Do you 652 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,879 Speaker 1: have an obscure word that you like? Oh gosh, it's 653 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: been stuck in your head recently. You know. One of 654 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: the nice things about working here at house Staff Works 655 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: is you get to dive into all sorts of weird stuff. 656 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: Um and I I did write a piece for the 657 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: website a year or so ago on archaic insults, on 658 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: words that we're insulting a while ago and that today 659 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: have fallen out of fashion. And I think that was 660 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,399 Speaker 1: kind of brought to light by uh. By the time, 661 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,800 Speaker 1: our our president and the leader of a certain nation 662 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: on the Korean peninsula were trading barbs back and forth 663 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: um and uh, and people were like, what's a dotard? 664 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: And so so we decided to investigate not only that, 665 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:06,280 Speaker 1: but a bunch of other words like um, slum, gullion, Uh, 666 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm I'm drawing a blanket head probably one perhaps, perhaps perhaps, 667 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: but anyway, I mean, all of this, it just amounts 668 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 1: to words, words. Words. We can post a link on 669 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 1: the on the Facebook page rights historians. I'll post a 670 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: link to that article. You guys can inform yourselves. And 671 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: that does it for me. I mean, unless you need 672 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: anything else from me. No, come back, hang out, let's go, 673 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: let's go, let's go hit the scene. And as we said, 674 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: our trustee co host Nol is out adventuring. But Christopher, 675 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: you mentioned that you're hoping he's just directly behind somebody. 676 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 1: Wait he should I turn? No, Hey, Nol, how's it going? Well? 677 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: Hey guys, Uh, it's it's me Nolum. I'm in Los Angeles, 678 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: in the in the in my hotel room in the 679 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:58,720 Speaker 1: Hollywood Roosevelt, which apparently is where Marilyn Monroe died. Um, 680 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: I've been watching the Haunting of Hill House alone in 681 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 1: this creepy hotel by myself at night. I think I'm 682 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: still kind of on East Coast brain haven't quite made 683 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: the switch yet, so I've been feeling like I've been 684 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 1: seeing some apparitions hovering around this uh really boogie um 685 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: canopy bed that I'm that I'm in laying in right now, 686 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: in fact, podcasting till you find people. UM. I'm really 687 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: glad that Christopher was able to sit in and talk 688 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 1: about the Oxford English Dictionary. That's pretty cool. Um. Sorry 689 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: if I sound a little out of it, I've been 690 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: I've been working late nights and getting up early, and 691 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, I don't even know what 692 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,319 Speaker 1: time it is right now. But godspeed, ridiculous historians to 693 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,359 Speaker 1: you and yours and Christopher and Ben and I'll see 694 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: you on on the flip side if I return and 695 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: don't get murdered by ghosts in the night. And that's 696 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 1: it for today. Christopher, I hope that you make this 697 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,399 Speaker 1: a habit. I hope you returned to shed some more 698 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 1: light on some of these strange stories of human civilization. 699 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 1: And I let you off easy this time, pal, but 700 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: next time I'd love to hear some more weird cover songs. Ben, 701 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,839 Speaker 1: I can do it for you. Thanks Ben, Thanks Noel, 702 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: thanks Casey, you guys listening out there. Thanks for thanks 703 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,959 Speaker 1: for having me, and we'll see you again next week