WEBVTT - Billy Porter 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:05.880 Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me, 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:09.480 Tommy di Dario. Today's guest is someone who I am 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.959 so grateful to call a dear friend. He is iconic. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.760 He is a legend. He is the moment of all moments. 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.360 He is Billy Porter. Billy is as incredible of a 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:23.560 human being as he is an artist. He is an Emmy, 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:28.720 Tony and Grammy Award winning actor, singer, director, composer, and playwright. 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.840 And if you were doing your calculations, then yes, he 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.880 is one letter short of being one of the very 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.400 very few artists to reach the elite status of being 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.480 an Egot winner. He just needs that over Oscar Baby, 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:43.400 and I have no doubt that is coming down the 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.559 line now. Billy has an incredible body of work, But 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.320 oh man, my favorite role it's gotta be his portrayal 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:54.160 of Prey Tell in the FX breakthrough series Pose. It's 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.680 a drama spotlighting the legends, the icons, and the ferocious 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.000 house mothers of New York's underground bulk, which is a 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.160 movement that first gain notice in the late nineteen eighties. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:09.680 His performance it will leave you breathless. It is just brilliant. 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:12.479 I also quite often listen to him on the soundtrack 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.800 to the smash hit Broadway musical Kinky Boots, for which 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.880 he won the Tony among many other accolades. For his 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.880 portrayal of I Lola. I love When that comes on 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.000 at the gym, I jam out, Yes I do. In 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:29.560 twenty twenty one, he penned his first literary project called Unprotected. 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.680 It's a very powerful memoir about race and sexuality, art 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.720 and healing. But today today is all about his exploding 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:39.760 pop star career. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:40.800 Yes it is. 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:43.959 His album The Black Mona Lisa is due out this fall, 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.040 and Billy has quite a lot to say. He has 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.680 been achieving some of his wildest dreams right now, at 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.680 this very very moment of his life. And that is 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:55.680 one of the things that I love most about Billy. 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.120 He shows you that it's never too late for you 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.080 to have your own second act in life. So let's 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.840 see if today we can get Billy to say something 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:06.720 that he's never said before. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:12.200 Billy Porter, how are you, my friend? 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:13.880 I'm good? How are you? 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:15.040 I am so good? 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.200 The last time I saw you, I brought you on 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.240 to the Rachel Ray Shiow For everyone listening, I've been 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.360 a correspondent on the show for five years, and we 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.240 drank red wine, and I feel like we both got 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.360 a little tipsy because we don't usually drink red wine. 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.480 Yeah, we got a little bit tipsy. 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.240 Got a little tipsy on National Time. That's right, that's right. Well, 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.840 it's good, that's right. We had a good time. It's 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.400 so good to see you. I feel like I'm meeting 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.560 you again for the first time because I am talking 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:46.440 now to the international pop star known as Billy Porter. 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.960 This is your return to music this year, and here 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:49.400 you are. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.000 Yes, I am. It's been. 0:02:54.440 --> 0:03:02.360 A really wonderful journey. My first R and B album, Mainstream, 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:07.080 came out nineteen ninety seven. It was called untitled on 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:11.160 an A and M record, wonderful album. I'm very proud 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.919 of it, and the business was very homophobic at the time, 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.720 and so they didn't really know what to do with me. 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.840 There wasn't really a place for me, you know. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.639 They were really trying to shove me into the traditional 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:31.280 R and B crooner slot, which I can do, but 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.560 it doesn't really have anything to do with me really 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:39.040 like my real art. So it's been wonderful to go 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:44.040 away from that and expand on so many different creative 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.400 levels and then be able to come back to this 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:48.280 space on. 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:49.120 My own terms. 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.800 Well, and I know this was a very personal tour 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.240 for you. Like you mentioned, it took a long time 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:56.720 for you to be able to arrive to this point 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.800 in your life and be who you are. Is that 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.760 something that you felt throughout the duration of the tour 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:03.280 you were on? 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:05.880 Yeah, you know the Black Mona Lisa Tour Volume one 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:06.400 I went. 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.320 I did twenty five cities in five weeks back in May, 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:15.200 and it was my first time really officially doing that, 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:20.400 like a pop music tour on a tour bus, you know, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.680 like I had a pop music tour book, you know, 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.400 like it was a real thing, and I was able 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:30.120 to show up and sing my own material as myself. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.080 You know, I've been able, I've been blessed to have 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:38.320 amazing success inside of film and television and theater, and 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.800 I'm known for playing other people. You know, what was 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.520 special about this is that I am showing up as myself, 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.320 my true authentic self being on the stage is myself. 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:54.360 The music that I've written, you know, sag absolutely everything 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.280 that I want to say to the world was magical. 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:02.080 It was special. It was is mind blowing. 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.000 Earth shattering. I mean, I don't really have words for it, 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.800 you know. And it felt right, you know. There was 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:14.360 no stress around it, around my part of it, around 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:16.800 the work part of it. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:17.839 It was really special. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.920 And this is going to be your fifth studio album, 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:22.679 is that correct? 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:23.479 Mm hmm. 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.800 So in some ways, does it feel like one of 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.400 your first being that you just said, You know, you 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.240 were trying to be forced into this box that you 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.120 could do, but now you get to be in a 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.080 box of who you really are. So does it feel 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:38.320 like a different experience. 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.680 It is a different experience, you know. My first so, 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:45.280 my first album, the R and B album, I didn't 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.560 have any say. Then. 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.599 The second album was at the Corner of Broadway and Soul, 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.159 my live album from Joe's Pub. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.839 That was me like experimenting finding my voice. 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.800 I wrote some stuff on that album, a lot of 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.200 the things, you know, and it was sort of me 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:08.680 establishing my brand at the time, you know, at the 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.360 corner of Broadway and Soul. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.120 I was bit by the Broadway bug. And I'm a 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.039 gospel singer, a gospel soul singer, you know, so like 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:17.120 those two things together. 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:21.919 Then my third album was Billy's Back on Broadway is 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.159 Billy's Back on Broadway, which is traditional, well, my version 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:30.240 of a classic Broadway album, like you know, the old 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.919 school Brober streisand Broadway albums with like an orchestra and 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:39.719 everything my own arrangements, so like the Broadway and soul flavor, yeah, 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:44.240 in a classic traditional sort of orchestral orchestration kind of way. 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.920 Then my fourth was The Soul of Richard Rogers, which 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:49.600 I called my. 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.640 You know me trying to be my have my Quincy 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.800 Jones moment. I produced all of it. 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.839 I'm on it a little bit, but I also have 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:07.360 guests on it, and it's all the Richard Rogers cannon interpreted, 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.520 interpreted through the black music lens. 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:15.800 So all the arrangements are R and B soul, hip hop, rap, gospel, jazz. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:17.320 Those are the arrangements. 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.200 And my guests are people like and d I Ree 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:24.360 and Lettu See and Deborah Cox and Cynthia Rivo and 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.600 uh Leslieanham Junior and Patina Miller and you know, so 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:30.080 to stepping into a. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.120 Leadership role to try and. 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.920 Show that side of the business that these voices that 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.880 we have, these modern voices that we have in this 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:46.400 musical theater space have existed the whole time. We've been 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:51.560 able to in the theater dip in to these voices 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:56.600 mine gospel singing, R and B singing, pop singing, soul singing. 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:57.360 You know those. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:02.280 The theater has had a very interesting relationship with cose 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:06.680 styles of singing and up until recently, and you know, 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.000 like I said, we've had flashes here and there, whether 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.160 it's The Wiz, whether it's dream Girls. It's like you 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:17.800 can count on one hand how many times that our styles, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:26.000 our voices, our true authentic black musical idioms are connected 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:32.680 to stories, are connected to human beings. Very often in 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:38.040 the Broadway space, our voices are relegated and pigeonholed into 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.640 musical reviews. Right, so there are no there's no human being, 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:47.200 there's no three dimensional human being, there's no story. It's 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.559 just show up black people and send the roof off 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.880 the joint, like you people do. No connection though, to 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.600 a real human being, and that gets exhausting. And so 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:04.640 I did it, and Boots, Cynthia Rivo, Jennifer Hudson, Heather 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:10.000 Headley did it in that revival of the color Purple. 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.360 You know, when it's authentic, like that Hamilton. You know, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.400 Patina Miller and Leslie Odom Junior are my students when 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.000 I was teaching at Carnegie Mellen. I was saying to them, 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.959 be who you are saying, like who you like, how 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.920 you sing, Be authentic to that voice, and. 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.200 Your gift will make room for you. 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.400 You know, this was in the early two thousands when 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:40.680 my gifts hadn't made room for me yet. So well, 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.640 I was speaking life into myself while trying to speak 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.280 life into others with the hope. 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.520 That it would work out in some way. 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:54.079 And Dad Knabbitt if I did not win my Tony 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.959 Award the same year that my student Patina Miller won hers, 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:02.960 I won for Kiki Boots and she won for Pippin, 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:05.640 And I said, I was right. 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:07.880 I was right. 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.480 Well, And fast forward to now with this new album 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.560 coming out in the fall, The Black Mona Lisa, where 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.520 you do get to be yourself and tell your story 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.400 as a black queir man. I mean, what has the 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:24.880 journey been like creating this album for you? 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.839 This journey has been very healing because my first because 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:39.480 it's because it's connected specifically to the mainstream space that 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.440 has rejected me for so long. The mainstream music space 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.840 that has rejected me for so long, and to be 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.720 able to get in the rooms with like people like 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.679 just Entranter and Emin e k Out of London, and 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:57.240 Andrea Martin, the late great Andrew Martin, the songwriter, Andrew Martin, 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:58.040 not the actress. 0:10:58.320 --> 0:10:59.600 You know, they were listening to me. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.200 They wanted to help me get to the best version 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.280 of what my vision is. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:11.120 You know, these are the top people in their spaces. 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:15.000 Justin Tranter is the top pop songwriter in the business 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:16.400 for a number of years now. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.280 Wanting to work with you, yes. 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:24.280 And what's special about us is that are our journeys 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.800 are similar because he was a signed artist, a queer, 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.040 signed artist. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:31.760 Who went through a lot of the same things that 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:32.280 I went through. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:35.160 You know, they sign you and then they want you 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:39.520 to be somebody else, and so you know, he transformed 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.559 his life and became this songwriter. 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.040 He's queer, he's out, he's fam he's fabulous. 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.720 And so the powers that we're bringing together, you know, 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.640 I think for the first time in that space, who else, 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.400 who else is like us? A team together like us 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:06.280 out straight, queer, interracial, you know, like it's it's I 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.800 feel like it's a magical I know it's a magical 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.440 thing because it has been and where I'm just trying 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.360 to figure out now, we're just trying to figure out 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.040 how to blow it up. 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.840 Yeah, it is going to blow up because the singles 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.760 you've already come out with have been incredible. And I 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.240 find it so fascinating that you just said the mainstream 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:31.000 music industry that you were rejected from and felt rejected from, 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:36.080 is now welcoming you. Two questions, One, how did you 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.400 feel rejected? And two, how did you not let that 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.120 put a bitter taste in your mouth and say, F y'all, 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:43.360 I don't want you. 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.600 Well, I did have a bitter taste in my mouth, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.760 and I did say f y'all, and I did walk 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.440 away from it. I was kicked out because I was gay, 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.160 period period, and I was made to believe that I 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:04.480 was such a flaming homosexual that there would be no 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.000 way for anybody. 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.360 To receive me. I go back to my music videos 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:10.160 and I watch them. 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.440 You wouldn't have known. I went to drama school. I 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:15.600 knew how to act butch. I know how to act butch. 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.920 But when you're supposed to be playing yourself, you know 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.400 the music industry. I'm showing up as Billy Porter. I'm 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.599 not showing up as somebody else. I'm showing up as myself. 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:26.760 And I wasn't. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.800 Showing up as myself. I was showing up. 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:33.000 As somebody else. And therefore I failed as somebody else. 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.040 And when I was able to look back at it, 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.240 I vowed to never do that again. That was the 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.760 greatest gift Ah. The compromise, yes, but for me it 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.160 was years of compromise, chipping away, chipping away, chipping away, 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.480 chipping away, because I thought at that age I was 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.280 twenty three, twenty four years old, Oh well, these people 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.920 have had these successes, so they know better than me. 0:13:55.040 --> 0:14:01.880 They don't whoever they are, they don't know better as 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:09.960 to how to be me than me. They don't. And 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.880 it took me a while to understand that. You know, 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.720 it takes a while a to learn who you are. 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.640 To understand who you are right and. 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.400 Then have the courage and the confidence to sit in 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.680 the fullness of that, to stand in the fullness of that, 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.479 and then move forward. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.040 In that space. It's easy to be who you are 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:32.640 when what you are is what's popular. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.120 M say that again, it's easy to be who you 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:41.560 are when what you are is what's popular. Wow, it 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.680 gets really annoying to be told from people in positions 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.240 of power, very successful people, that all you have to 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.520 do is be yourself, when who they are is what 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:52.480 the world wants. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.840 Thank God, Billy to sit across from me right now, 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.560 knowing that you're going to be releasing something that is 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:14.240 so personal and so special and so you after everything 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.000 you've been through in this industry while not being dissuaded 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.880 and saying goodbye to it forever. Yeah, you maybe walked 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.680 away for a bit, but you came back. You came back. 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:28.360 Well, I never I never walked away from it. I 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:30.840 just went deeper inside of. 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.560 Me how creatively. 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.480 I didn't have anywhere to go, So I started asking 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.720 myself other questions, Well, what is it? 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.320 What should I do? Where should I go? You know? 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.120 I did a work book called The Artist's Way back 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:54.240 in two thousand. Julia Cameron saved my life. Excavation of 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:55.520 what it is that you really want? 0:15:55.640 --> 0:16:00.240 How to get it? Creative? The human spirit? You know, 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:01.120 what do I want to say? 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:06.400 I'm not interested in material that doesn't move the needle 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.440 in some way. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.600 Tony Morrison says, this is precisely the time. 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.960 When artists go to work. There's no room spare, there's 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.760 no time for fear. We spok, we do language. This 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.720 is how civilizations heal. I was put on this earth. 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:24.920 I have a calling on my life. 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.080 That's bigger than me and everybody around me. 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.720 I know that for certain, and I can finally speak 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.040 about it and talk about it. 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:39.000 There's no ego in this. It's just fact, and I need. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.280 To understand what that is so I can consistently be 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:49.480 in order, divine order, and be using my gifts and 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.400 art in the way that I should. I'm still learning 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:56.480 how to do that. I'm still learning how to excavate that, 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:03.040 you know, because what I find in these spaces is 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:09.800 that when you can speak about your worth, when you 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.879 know your worth, you honor your worth, you stand in 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.400 the fullness of it, and you can speak about it 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.760 because one must know what those are so that we 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.080 can show up properly. 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:23.760 MM. 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.080 You can't show up properly unless you know what the 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.520 point is, you know, and it's really easy. I've been 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.879 in this, in this in this cycle of people calling 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:43.119 me arrogant and and narcissistic, because I've dared recently to 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:48.520 speak on my power, and that makes other people uncomfortable 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:54.560 on the outside of me, sometimes not always. You know, 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.600 it's interesting because I remember watching Oprah and I say 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.119 that because I remember watching Oprah and she, you know, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:03.680 she was on the air for like a decade or so, 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.359 and then one year she came on and she said, 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.520 I'm not going to be doing any of the shock 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:11.960 talk anymore. 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:16.399 My purpose is something different. The curtain dropped. 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.280 Live your best life, and that's what she has been 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:26.760 with ever since. There's a lot that I'm destined for 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:33.360 and always have been. And I can speak on this 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.120 because I've lived long enough fifty three years old, I've 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:42.359 lived long enough to see the fruits of those facts. 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:43.159 And my labor. 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:47.119 M Billy. 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:54.680 It is so rewarding listening to someone speak in their 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.920 truth and believe it one hundred percent, because a lot 0:18:59.920 --> 0:19:02.560 of people say things that they are a certain way 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.240 or believe in a certain something, but they don't act 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.880 on it. And I don't think that makes you arrogant. 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.639 I don't think it makes you difficult. I don't think 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:12.600 it makes you any of the things. It makes you 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.959 someone who's had life experiences and is sharing your truth, 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.960 which is what artistry is all about. And I love 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.399 that in your songs and your music as well, like 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.919 your your bop Baby was a Dancer that comes on 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.000 and we're in the car, I'm in the gym and 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.520 I'm like, yes, I am jamming out. But behind that, 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.000 behind that are powerful lyrics and that's what you do. 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.679 You weave you we've fun with power. Talk to me 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:44.040 about that lead single of yours, because it was is brilliant. 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.120 Well that's the third single and it went number one. 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.840 On BBC two Radio, which is a way. 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.359 Yeah, it's number one on BBC two Radio and Baby 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.560 was a Broken Swet just cracked the top ten over there. 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:58.720 So it looks like I'm going to be spending some 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.200 time over there because they get me in a way. 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:07.600 You know, America sometimes is unwilling to right now. 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.520 That doesn't mean it, that doesn't mean it won't happen. 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.160 It can change. But the lyrics of that song talking 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:14.600 about it's all. 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:23.320 About, like you said, I've been through something and I've 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.240 been on a journey to heal my trauma through my art. 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.080 You know, people, sometimes it's hard to see, it's hard 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:38.280 to be what you can't see, I am a new thing. 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.960 You know. I'm black, and I'm gay, and I'm out, 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.640 and I'm unapologetic, and I'm doing things that on paper, 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:53.280 I was never supposed to be able to do. 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:55.400 My queerness. 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.720 I was told by haters and allies a like that 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:02.560 my queerness would be my liability. And it was for decades, Tommy, 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.440 it was my liability for decades. And now all of 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.960 a sudden, it's my superpower. So I'm leaning into that. 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.639 And all the lyrics on all of the songs are 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:21.400 very very personal to all of these years that I've 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.480 been able to live and what I've learned. You know, 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.040 there's a song on the album that you haven't heard 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.720 yet called More to Learn. There's always more to learn. 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:36.760 Your queerness is your superpower. 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:42.280 I'm sitting here getting emotional hearing you say that as 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.600 a fifty three year old black man, because I know 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:46.600 that's something. 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:51.840 That you didn't believe for probably way too long. 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:54.480 I wasn't even supposed to be alive at this point. 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.840 You don't how many friends of mine died from a plague, 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.280 you know, Like it's like I wasn't supposed to be here. 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:11.399 I really wasn't. I'm so grateful that I've lived long enough. 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:16.600 To see the day where this kind of change powers, 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:23.639 mean powers the world. And what's interesting is to me 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.280 about all of the trauma that we're going through collectively. 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:33.720 You know, with this sort of resurgence of the. 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.760 Conservatism, white nationalism, whatever you want to call it. 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:42.719 You know, the change has already happened. 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:48.240 That's what I keep trying to just say, like a mantra, 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:54.240 the change has already happened. That's why the pushback is 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:59.640 so severe. We all right, you can't put the toothpaste 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:00.199 back in the too. 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:02.400 There is a fight. 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.399 We have to show up and fight for what we 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:12.040 know is right. There will be blood, there has always been. 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:18.680 Change doesn't happen without somebody laying down their life. My 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:23.600 ancestors have laid down their lives for me to be 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.240 able to be who I am and live in the 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:28.600 spaces and take up the spaces and occupy the world 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:29.440 like I do. 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:32.879 People have already died for this. 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:40.440 So the terrorism, domestic terrorism that's going on right now 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:45.960 to try to stop the progress doesn't scare me. And 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:50.160 we need to have that conversation. This is what it's 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:53.840 always been right, So we show up and we fight back. 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:56.480 So what gives you hope? 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:58.879 Because, as you said, there's a lot going on, and 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:01.240 there's a lot of fights that need to be fought. 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:04.480 But does does anything give you hope for the. 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:08.080 Childing out of future? 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:13.920 Teach them well, then liveingly the way? 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:17.439 Yeah, no, I mean it sounds like. 0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:25.400