1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me, 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Tommy di Dario. Today's guest is someone who I am 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: so grateful to call a dear friend. He is iconic. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: He is a legend. He is the moment of all moments. 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: He is Billy Porter. Billy is as incredible of a 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: human being as he is an artist. He is an Emmy, 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: Tony and Grammy Award winning actor, singer, director, composer, and playwright. 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: And if you were doing your calculations, then yes, he 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: is one letter short of being one of the very 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: very few artists to reach the elite status of being 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: an Egot winner. He just needs that over Oscar Baby, 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: and I have no doubt that is coming down the 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: line now. Billy has an incredible body of work, But 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: oh man, my favorite role it's gotta be his portrayal 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: of Prey Tell in the FX breakthrough series Pose. It's 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: a drama spotlighting the legends, the icons, and the ferocious 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: house mothers of New York's underground bulk, which is a 18 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: movement that first gain notice in the late nineteen eighties. 19 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: His performance it will leave you breathless. It is just brilliant. 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: I also quite often listen to him on the soundtrack 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: to the smash hit Broadway musical Kinky Boots, for which 22 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: he won the Tony among many other accolades. For his 23 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: portrayal of I Lola. I love When that comes on 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: at the gym, I jam out, Yes I do. In 25 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, he penned his first literary project called Unprotected. 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: It's a very powerful memoir about race and sexuality, art 27 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: and healing. But today today is all about his exploding 28 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: pop star career. 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: Yes it is. 30 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: His album The Black Mona Lisa is due out this fall, 31 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: and Billy has quite a lot to say. He has 32 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: been achieving some of his wildest dreams right now, at 33 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: this very very moment of his life. And that is 34 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: one of the things that I love most about Billy. 35 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: He shows you that it's never too late for you 36 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: to have your own second act in life. So let's 37 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: see if today we can get Billy to say something 38 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: that he's never said before. 39 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: Billy Porter, how are you, my friend? 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 3: I'm good? How are you? 41 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: I am so good? 42 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: The last time I saw you, I brought you on 43 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: to the Rachel Ray Shiow For everyone listening, I've been 44 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: a correspondent on the show for five years, and we 45 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: drank red wine, and I feel like we both got 46 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: a little tipsy because we don't usually drink red wine. 47 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, we got a little bit tipsy. 48 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: Got a little tipsy on National Time. That's right, that's right. Well, 49 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: it's good, that's right. We had a good time. It's 50 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: so good to see you. I feel like I'm meeting 51 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: you again for the first time because I am talking 52 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: now to the international pop star known as Billy Porter. 53 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: This is your return to music this year, and here 54 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: you are. 55 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 3: Yes, I am. It's been. 56 00:02:54,440 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 4: A really wonderful journey. My first R and B album, Mainstream, 57 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 4: came out nineteen ninety seven. It was called untitled on 58 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 4: an A and M record, wonderful album. I'm very proud 59 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 4: of it, and the business was very homophobic at the time, 60 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 4: and so they didn't really know what to do with me. 61 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 3: There wasn't really a place for me, you know. 62 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 4: They were really trying to shove me into the traditional 63 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 4: R and B crooner slot, which I can do, but 64 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 4: it doesn't really have anything to do with me really 65 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 4: like my real art. So it's been wonderful to go 66 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 4: away from that and expand on so many different creative 67 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 4: levels and then be able to come back to this 68 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 4: space on. 69 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 3: My own terms. 70 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: Well, and I know this was a very personal tour 71 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: for you. Like you mentioned, it took a long time 72 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: for you to be able to arrive to this point 73 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: in your life and be who you are. Is that 74 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: something that you felt throughout the duration of the tour 75 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: you were on? 76 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know the Black Mona Lisa Tour Volume one 77 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: I went. 78 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 4: I did twenty five cities in five weeks back in May, 79 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 4: and it was my first time really officially doing that, 80 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 4: like a pop music tour on a tour bus, you know, 81 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 4: like I had a pop music tour book, you know, 82 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 4: like it was a real thing, and I was able 83 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 4: to show up and sing my own material as myself. 84 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 4: You know, I've been able, I've been blessed to have 85 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 4: amazing success inside of film and television and theater, and 86 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 4: I'm known for playing other people. You know, what was 87 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 4: special about this is that I am showing up as myself, 88 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 4: my true authentic self being on the stage is myself. 89 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 4: The music that I've written, you know, sag absolutely everything 90 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 4: that I want to say to the world was magical. 91 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 3: It was special. It was is mind blowing. 92 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 4: Earth shattering. I mean, I don't really have words for it, 93 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 4: you know. And it felt right, you know. There was 94 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 4: no stress around it, around my part of it, around 95 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 4: the work part of it. 96 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 3: It was really special. 97 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: And this is going to be your fifth studio album, 98 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:22,679 Speaker 1: is that correct? 99 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 3: Mm hmm. 100 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: So in some ways, does it feel like one of 101 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: your first being that you just said, You know, you 102 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: were trying to be forced into this box that you 103 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: could do, but now you get to be in a 104 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: box of who you really are. So does it feel 105 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: like a different experience. 106 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 3: It is a different experience, you know. My first so, 107 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 3: my first album, the R and B album, I didn't 108 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: have any say. Then. 109 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 4: The second album was at the Corner of Broadway and Soul, 110 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 4: my live album from Joe's Pub. 111 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 3: That was me like experimenting finding my voice. 112 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 4: I wrote some stuff on that album, a lot of 113 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 4: the things, you know, and it was sort of me 114 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 4: establishing my brand at the time, you know, at the 115 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 4: corner of Broadway and Soul. 116 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 3: I was bit by the Broadway bug. And I'm a 117 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 3: gospel singer, a gospel soul singer, you know, so like 118 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: those two things together. 119 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 4: Then my third album was Billy's Back on Broadway is 120 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 4: Billy's Back on Broadway, which is traditional, well, my version 121 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 4: of a classic Broadway album, like you know, the old 122 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 4: school Brober streisand Broadway albums with like an orchestra and 123 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 4: everything my own arrangements, so like the Broadway and soul flavor, yeah, 124 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 4: in a classic traditional sort of orchestral orchestration kind of way. 125 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 4: Then my fourth was The Soul of Richard Rogers, which 126 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 4: I called my. 127 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: You know me trying to be my have my Quincy 128 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 3: Jones moment. I produced all of it. 129 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 4: I'm on it a little bit, but I also have 130 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 4: guests on it, and it's all the Richard Rogers cannon interpreted, 131 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 4: interpreted through the black music lens. 132 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 3: So all the arrangements are R and B soul, hip hop, rap, gospel, jazz. 133 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 3: Those are the arrangements. 134 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 4: And my guests are people like and d I Ree 135 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 4: and Lettu See and Deborah Cox and Cynthia Rivo and 136 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 4: uh Leslieanham Junior and Patina Miller and you know, so 137 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 4: to stepping into a. 138 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 3: Leadership role to try and. 139 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 4: Show that side of the business that these voices that 140 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 4: we have, these modern voices that we have in this 141 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 4: musical theater space have existed the whole time. We've been 142 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 4: able to in the theater dip in to these voices 143 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 4: mine gospel singing, R and B singing, pop singing, soul singing. 144 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 3: You know those. 145 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 4: The theater has had a very interesting relationship with cose 146 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 4: styles of singing and up until recently, and you know, 147 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 4: like I said, we've had flashes here and there, whether 148 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 4: it's The Wiz, whether it's dream Girls. It's like you 149 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 4: can count on one hand how many times that our styles, 150 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 4: our voices, our true authentic black musical idioms are connected 151 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 4: to stories, are connected to human beings. Very often in 152 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 4: the Broadway space, our voices are relegated and pigeonholed into 153 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 4: musical reviews. Right, so there are no there's no human being, 154 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 4: there's no three dimensional human being, there's no story. It's 155 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 4: just show up black people and send the roof off 156 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 4: the joint, like you people do. No connection though, to 157 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 4: a real human being, and that gets exhausting. And so 158 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 4: I did it, and Boots, Cynthia Rivo, Jennifer Hudson, Heather 159 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 4: Headley did it in that revival of the color Purple. 160 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 4: You know, when it's authentic, like that Hamilton. You know, 161 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 4: Patina Miller and Leslie Odom Junior are my students when 162 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 4: I was teaching at Carnegie Mellen. I was saying to them, 163 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 4: be who you are saying, like who you like, how 164 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 4: you sing, Be authentic to that voice, and. 165 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 3: Your gift will make room for you. 166 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 4: You know, this was in the early two thousands when 167 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 4: my gifts hadn't made room for me yet. So well, 168 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 4: I was speaking life into myself while trying to speak 169 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 4: life into others with the hope. 170 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 3: That it would work out in some way. 171 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 4: And Dad Knabbitt if I did not win my Tony 172 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 4: Award the same year that my student Patina Miller won hers, 173 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 4: I won for Kiki Boots and she won for Pippin, 174 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 4: And I said, I was right. 175 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 3: I was right. 176 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: Well, And fast forward to now with this new album 177 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: coming out in the fall, The Black Mona Lisa, where 178 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: you do get to be yourself and tell your story 179 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: as a black queir man. I mean, what has the 180 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: journey been like creating this album for you? 181 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 4: This journey has been very healing because my first because 182 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 4: it's because it's connected specifically to the mainstream space that 183 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 4: has rejected me for so long. The mainstream music space 184 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 4: that has rejected me for so long, and to be 185 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 4: able to get in the rooms with like people like 186 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 4: just Entranter and Emin e k Out of London, and 187 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 4: Andrea Martin, the late great Andrew Martin, the songwriter, Andrew Martin, 188 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 4: not the actress. 189 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 3: You know, they were listening to me. 190 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 4: They wanted to help me get to the best version 191 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 4: of what my vision is. 192 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 3: You know, these are the top people in their spaces. 193 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 4: Justin Tranter is the top pop songwriter in the business 194 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 4: for a number of years now. 195 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: Wanting to work with you, yes. 196 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 4: And what's special about us is that are our journeys 197 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 4: are similar because he was a signed artist, a queer, 198 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 4: signed artist. 199 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 3: Who went through a lot of the same things that 200 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 3: I went through. 201 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 4: You know, they sign you and then they want you 202 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 4: to be somebody else, and so you know, he transformed 203 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 4: his life and became this songwriter. 204 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 3: He's queer, he's out, he's fam he's fabulous. 205 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 4: And so the powers that we're bringing together, you know, 206 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 4: I think for the first time in that space, who else, 207 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 4: who else is like us? A team together like us 208 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 4: out straight, queer, interracial, you know, like it's it's I 209 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 4: feel like it's a magical I know it's a magical 210 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 4: thing because it has been and where I'm just trying 211 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 4: to figure out now, we're just trying to figure out 212 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 4: how to blow it up. 213 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is going to blow up because the singles 214 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: you've already come out with have been incredible. And I 215 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: find it so fascinating that you just said the mainstream 216 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: music industry that you were rejected from and felt rejected from, 217 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: is now welcoming you. Two questions, One, how did you 218 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: feel rejected? And two, how did you not let that 219 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: put a bitter taste in your mouth and say, F y'all, 220 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: I don't want you. 221 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 4: Well, I did have a bitter taste in my mouth, 222 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 4: and I did say f y'all, and I did walk 223 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 4: away from it. I was kicked out because I was gay, 224 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 4: period period, and I was made to believe that I 225 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 4: was such a flaming homosexual that there would be no 226 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 4: way for anybody. 227 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: To receive me. I go back to my music videos 228 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 3: and I watch them. 229 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 4: You wouldn't have known. I went to drama school. I 230 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 4: knew how to act butch. I know how to act butch. 231 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 4: But when you're supposed to be playing yourself, you know 232 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 4: the music industry. I'm showing up as Billy Porter. I'm 233 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,599 Speaker 4: not showing up as somebody else. I'm showing up as myself. 234 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 4: And I wasn't. 235 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: Showing up as myself. I was showing up. 236 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 4: As somebody else. And therefore I failed as somebody else. 237 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 4: And when I was able to look back at it, 238 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 4: I vowed to never do that again. That was the 239 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 4: greatest gift Ah. The compromise, yes, but for me it 240 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 4: was years of compromise, chipping away, chipping away, chipping away, 241 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 4: chipping away, because I thought at that age I was 242 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 4: twenty three, twenty four years old, Oh well, these people 243 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 4: have had these successes, so they know better than me. 244 00:13:55,040 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 4: They don't whoever they are, they don't know better as 245 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 4: to how to be me than me. They don't. And 246 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 4: it took me a while to understand that. You know, 247 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 4: it takes a while a to learn who you are. 248 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 3: To understand who you are right and. 249 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 4: Then have the courage and the confidence to sit in 250 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 4: the fullness of that, to stand in the fullness of that, 251 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,479 Speaker 4: and then move forward. 252 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 3: In that space. It's easy to be who you are 253 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 3: when what you are is what's popular. 254 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 4: M say that again, it's easy to be who you 255 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 4: are when what you are is what's popular. Wow, it 256 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 4: gets really annoying to be told from people in positions 257 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 4: of power, very successful people, that all you have to 258 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 4: do is be yourself, when who they are is what 259 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 4: the world wants. 260 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: Thank God, Billy to sit across from me right now, 261 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: knowing that you're going to be releasing something that is 262 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: so personal and so special and so you after everything 263 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: you've been through in this industry while not being dissuaded 264 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: and saying goodbye to it forever. Yeah, you maybe walked 265 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: away for a bit, but you came back. You came back. 266 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 4: Well, I never I never walked away from it. I 267 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 4: just went deeper inside of. 268 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: Me how creatively. 269 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 4: I didn't have anywhere to go, So I started asking 270 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 4: myself other questions, Well, what is it? 271 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 3: What should I do? Where should I go? You know? 272 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 4: I did a work book called The Artist's Way back 273 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 4: in two thousand. Julia Cameron saved my life. Excavation of 274 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 4: what it is that you really want? 275 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 3: How to get it? Creative? The human spirit? You know, 276 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 3: what do I want to say? 277 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 4: I'm not interested in material that doesn't move the needle 278 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 4: in some way. 279 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 3: Tony Morrison says, this is precisely the time. 280 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 4: When artists go to work. There's no room spare, there's 281 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 4: no time for fear. We spok, we do language. This 282 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 4: is how civilizations heal. I was put on this earth. 283 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 4: I have a calling on my life. 284 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: That's bigger than me and everybody around me. 285 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 4: I know that for certain, and I can finally speak 286 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 4: about it and talk about it. 287 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 3: There's no ego in this. It's just fact, and I need. 288 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 4: To understand what that is so I can consistently be 289 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 4: in order, divine order, and be using my gifts and 290 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 4: art in the way that I should. I'm still learning 291 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 4: how to do that. I'm still learning how to excavate that, 292 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 4: you know, because what I find in these spaces is 293 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 4: that when you can speak about your worth, when you 294 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 4: know your worth, you honor your worth, you stand in 295 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 4: the fullness of it, and you can speak about it 296 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 4: because one must know what those are so that we 297 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 4: can show up properly. 298 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 2: MM. 299 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 4: You can't show up properly unless you know what the 300 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 4: point is, you know, and it's really easy. I've been 301 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 4: in this, in this in this cycle of people calling 302 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 4: me arrogant and and narcissistic, because I've dared recently to 303 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 4: speak on my power, and that makes other people uncomfortable 304 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 4: on the outside of me, sometimes not always. You know, 305 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 4: it's interesting because I remember watching Oprah and I say 306 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 4: that because I remember watching Oprah and she, you know, 307 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 4: she was on the air for like a decade or so, 308 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 4: and then one year she came on and she said, 309 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 4: I'm not going to be doing any of the shock 310 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 4: talk anymore. 311 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 3: My purpose is something different. The curtain dropped. 312 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 4: Live your best life, and that's what she has been 313 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 4: with ever since. There's a lot that I'm destined for 314 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 4: and always have been. And I can speak on this 315 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 4: because I've lived long enough fifty three years old, I've 316 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 4: lived long enough to see the fruits of those facts. 317 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 3: And my labor. 318 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: M Billy. 319 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: It is so rewarding listening to someone speak in their 320 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: truth and believe it one hundred percent, because a lot 321 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: of people say things that they are a certain way 322 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: or believe in a certain something, but they don't act 323 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: on it. And I don't think that makes you arrogant. 324 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: I don't think it makes you difficult. I don't think 325 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: it makes you any of the things. It makes you 326 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,959 Speaker 1: someone who's had life experiences and is sharing your truth, 327 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: which is what artistry is all about. And I love 328 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 1: that in your songs and your music as well, like 329 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: your your bop Baby was a Dancer that comes on 330 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: and we're in the car, I'm in the gym and 331 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, I am jamming out. But behind that, 332 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: behind that are powerful lyrics and that's what you do. 333 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: You weave you we've fun with power. Talk to me 334 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: about that lead single of yours, because it was is brilliant. 335 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 3: Well that's the third single and it went number one. 336 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 2: On BBC two Radio, which is a way. 337 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's number one on BBC two Radio and Baby 338 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 4: was a Broken Swet just cracked the top ten over there. 339 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 4: So it looks like I'm going to be spending some 340 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 4: time over there because they get me in a way. 341 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 4: You know, America sometimes is unwilling to right now. 342 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 3: That doesn't mean it, that doesn't mean it won't happen. 343 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: It can change. But the lyrics of that song talking 344 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: about it's all. 345 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 4: About, like you said, I've been through something and I've 346 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 4: been on a journey to heal my trauma through my art. 347 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 4: You know, people, sometimes it's hard to see, it's hard 348 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 4: to be what you can't see, I am a new thing. 349 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 4: You know. I'm black, and I'm gay, and I'm out, 350 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 4: and I'm unapologetic, and I'm doing things that on paper, 351 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 4: I was never supposed to be able to do. 352 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 3: My queerness. 353 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 4: I was told by haters and allies a like that 354 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 4: my queerness would be my liability. And it was for decades, Tommy, 355 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 4: it was my liability for decades. And now all of 356 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 4: a sudden, it's my superpower. So I'm leaning into that. 357 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 4: And all the lyrics on all of the songs are 358 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 4: very very personal to all of these years that I've 359 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 4: been able to live and what I've learned. You know, 360 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 4: there's a song on the album that you haven't heard 361 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 4: yet called More to Learn. There's always more to learn. 362 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: Your queerness is your superpower. 363 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm sitting here getting emotional hearing you say that as 364 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: a fifty three year old black man, because I know 365 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: that's something. 366 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 2: That you didn't believe for probably way too long. 367 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 3: I wasn't even supposed to be alive at this point. 368 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 4: You don't how many friends of mine died from a plague, 369 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 4: you know, Like it's like I wasn't supposed to be here. 370 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 3: I really wasn't. I'm so grateful that I've lived long enough. 371 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 4: To see the day where this kind of change powers, 372 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 4: mean powers the world. And what's interesting is to me 373 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 4: about all of the trauma that we're going through collectively. 374 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 3: You know, with this sort of resurgence of the. 375 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 4: Conservatism, white nationalism, whatever you want to call it. 376 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 3: You know, the change has already happened. 377 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 4: That's what I keep trying to just say, like a mantra, 378 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 4: the change has already happened. That's why the pushback is 379 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 4: so severe. We all right, you can't put the toothpaste 380 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 4: back in the too. 381 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 3: There is a fight. 382 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 4: We have to show up and fight for what we 383 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 4: know is right. There will be blood, there has always been. 384 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 4: Change doesn't happen without somebody laying down their life. My 385 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 4: ancestors have laid down their lives for me to be 386 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 4: able to be who I am and live in the 387 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 4: spaces and take up the spaces and occupy the world 388 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 4: like I do. 389 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 3: People have already died for this. 390 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 4: So the terrorism, domestic terrorism that's going on right now 391 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 4: to try to stop the progress doesn't scare me. And 392 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 4: we need to have that conversation. This is what it's 393 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 4: always been right, So we show up and we fight back. 394 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 2: So what gives you hope? 395 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: Because, as you said, there's a lot going on, and 396 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: there's a lot of fights that need to be fought. 397 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: But does does anything give you hope for the. 398 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 3: Childing out of future? 399 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 4: Teach them well, then liveingly the way? 400 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean it sounds like. 401 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 4: I just yeah, it's like it's the next generation's turn, yes, 402 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 4: to pick up. 403 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 3: What we fed up. 404 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 4: And you know, I hear the smart ones talking, and 405 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 4: you know, they were born into rights that my generation 406 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 4: and all of the generations behind me fought for. Unfortunately, 407 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 4: on purpose, there's a lack of history. 408 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 3: We don't know our history. That is on purpose. 409 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 4: Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. 410 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 4: The power structure counts on that, right, they count on that. 411 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 4: Why do you think they're bannoned books? Why do you 412 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 4: think they talk about indoctrination? That's you're doing. You're that's 413 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 4: what y'all are doing. 414 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 2: And it's really teach it. We're not even going to 415 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: teach it right, right, and our. 416 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 3: Students that that slavery was useful to black people? Yeah no, 417 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 3: m m no. And it's up to us and it's 418 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 3: up to our kids to stop it. 419 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have engaged. 420 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 4: We have to be present, we have to show up, 421 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 4: we have to you know, it's we, the people, get 422 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 4: to make this decision for now. 423 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: Well, and I think to your point, we're seeing the 424 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: younger generations doing that, and I think it's up to 425 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: all of us in any generation we're in to do it. 426 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: But it does get hope seeing that, and like you said, 427 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: seeing the children do that, it's it's it's progress and 428 00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: we need that. 429 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: But we also need you. And that's what you keep 430 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 2: doing as well. 431 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: And you even in your music you get quote unquote 432 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: what people might consider a little political, God forbid, but 433 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: you're putting out the messages that people need to hear 434 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: and be reminded of. And I think that's so important. 435 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 3: I hear what you're saying exactly, and let me speak 436 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 3: to that for a second. 437 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 2: Go ahead. 438 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 3: There are buzzwords in the power structure meant to silence. 439 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 3: The biggest one is politicized. It's all political. 440 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 4: You're trying to take my rights away and I'm not 441 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 4: supposed to talk about it because that's politicizing it. 442 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 3: Yes, God damn it, I am. And what you mean 443 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 3: when you say I'm politicizing it and trying to shut 444 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 3: me down. 445 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 4: You're saying shut up, right, You're trying to tell me 446 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 4: to shut up, and I will never shut up. 447 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's political. 448 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 5: You're trying to take my rights away, and for me 449 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,959 Speaker 5: to speak about that in public, out loud, you're shutting 450 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 5: me down by saying I'm being political. 451 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 3: I know, I know. 452 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 2: It must be frustrated. 453 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:12,479 Speaker 3: I'm not doing that. Another word too preachy. Those two words. 454 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 4: Don't come at me with those two words. Yes political 455 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 4: and yes I'm preaching. Somebody needs to That's right, Cook. 456 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 4: We at the same place we've been for four hundred years. 457 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 4: Somebody needs to do something. 458 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: Well, that's part of your magic is you do it 459 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: and most people respond really well to it, and they 460 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: want to keep educating themselves and learning and hearing perspectives 461 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: that they don't themselves have. And I think that's amazing. 462 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: You actually just reminded me. And this is such a 463 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: random thing to connect us with. But when Taylor Swift 464 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: came out with her video for you need to Calm Down, 465 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: and you were in it, which was incredible, had so 466 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: many LGBT icons and trail blazers in it. She even 467 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: got flack and people were saying, oh, that's political pushing. 468 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes it is, but it was an amazing video 469 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:12,479 Speaker 2: and moment and message. 470 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 3: What we're supposed to do as artists, that's what we're 471 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 3: supposed to do. 472 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, I will. 473 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 5: Not shut up and dribble. No, I will not shut 474 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 5: up and sing. No, I will not shut up and dance. No, 475 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 5: I won't shut up and I won't ever go away. 476 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 5: I don't understand what this is. 477 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 4: It's like, you know, the idea that the you know, 478 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 4: these these these these dictator you know whatever we're calling 479 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 4: these people. It's like, so you it's about silencing. If 480 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 4: you can get the people to be silent, then you 481 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 4: can do whatever you want. 482 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's nice to see more and 483 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: more people not allowing that to happen and going outside. 484 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 4: Everybody, right, I want everybody to strike the words scary 485 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 4: and terrified from the vernacular. 486 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 3: Scratch it. We don't have room for that, We don't 487 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 3: have time for that. Scared of what what I mean? 488 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 3: Our government for. 489 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 4: Four years or more still today, you won't stand up 490 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 4: to Orange in a forty five because he's gonna tweet 491 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 4: about you. What are we? 492 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 3: Sixteen year old cheerleaders. 493 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: Billy, that's your magic is you're showing people to not 494 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: be afraid. And I think that's a really beautiful what's that? 495 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 3: I said it so it is, Patty Willis. 496 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: Now you. 497 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: I just I think what you do for the Masters 498 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: is incredible and thank you. I I'm such a fan 499 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: of the work you do in the person that you are. 500 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: It's just it's so cool to see. And I do 501 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: think your influence rubs off on a lot of people, 502 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: even something like I just mentioned, even something like Taylor 503 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: doing that video. I think the more people see people 504 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: like you, the more people like the rest of us 505 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: feel comfortable with that. 506 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 2: Was that a fund that video? By the way, go 507 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: ahead say that again, baby, I was gonna say that video. 508 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 2: I loved you and it was that fun to do. 509 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 4: It was so fun. 510 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 6: And she you know, and she called and she said, 511 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 6: I have to speak, and like I didn't. I don't 512 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 6: quite know how, but I think this is the this 513 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 6: is the way. 514 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 3: That I can speak. This is the way that I 515 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 3: can like you know, get involved and use my my 516 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: powers for good. And she did, you know, It's like 517 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 3: we turned it around. Biden is in the White House. 518 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 3: You know it's you know, it's like it can work 519 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 3: when we show up and participate. 520 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: Showing up is number one, right, Showing up is so important, 521 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: and you show up for so many people. And I 522 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: told you this privately, I maybe told you this on Rachel. 523 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you this again. One of the 524 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: many things I love about you is you show people 525 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: that it's never too late to have a second act. Right, Like, 526 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: you're fifty three now. You said when you were turning 527 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: fifty you were reaching some of your wildest successes. You 528 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: have this amazing new music career. You've always wanted to 529 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: do it in the way that you wanted to do it, 530 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: and here you are actually making that happen. Do you 531 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: believe that it's never too late? 532 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my whole point. And that's why I say 533 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 3: my age. 534 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 2: So often because a lot of people don't say it. 535 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. I say my age so often because I earned it. 536 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 3: I worked hard for this age. I'm still alive, you know. 537 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 3: That's one of the lyrics and more to learn. It 538 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 3: opens with I'm alive. What an accomplishment from my time? 539 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 3: I lost more people at the age of twenty one 540 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 3: to AIDS than. 541 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 4: My eighty five year old grandmother had a Yeah, so 542 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 4: people hear me speak when people receive my energy to 543 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 4: the people that I sometimes make uncomfortable because I'm that's why. 544 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 4: That's why I've lived with life already. Yeah, you have 545 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 4: not suffer fools. I will never suffer fools ever again. 546 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 2: We have four Yeah. 547 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you you make it very clear in your 548 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: work that that's not something that's going away anytime soon. 549 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 2: And it creates a space where. 550 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 3: The people who are in alignment with me show up. Yeah. 551 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 3: If you don't like what I do, don't. I'm not 552 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 3: we don't. It's all good. There are lots of people who. 553 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: Do right and will and that's life, and that's life. 554 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: Not everyone is going to always like you, right, and 555 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: and you just got to move on and keep keep 556 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: doing the work that makes you proud. 557 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 558 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm with you, Billy. I'm with you one hundred percent. Wait, 559 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: before before you went on that tour, I saw you 560 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: a few weeks before and you said you wanted to 561 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: live your wildest Beyonce fantasy. So did you feel like 562 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:06,719 Speaker 1: Beyonce out there? 563 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 4: No? 564 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 3: I felt like Billy. 565 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 2: Oh I love that. 566 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 3: I felt like Billy. I was really I was really 567 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 3: able to just lock into a whole. 568 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 4: I don't want to say a whole new thing, get 569 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 4: reacquainted with what has always been there. 570 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 3: Like I said, I was myself again. 571 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 4: I wasn't playing Praytell, I wasn't playing Lola, I wasn't 572 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 4: playing the fabulous Godmother. 573 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 3: It was not a character. 574 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 2: It was me. 575 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 4: And so. 576 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 3: I was just able to go out there and be me. 577 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 3: And I'm gonna say this. The show started clocking in 578 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 3: at two hours. 579 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 4: By the end we were clocking in and where between 580 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 4: two thirty at three, and it was just me. I 581 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 4: didn't even have background singers because I couldn't afford them. 582 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 4: The background singers were on the were on the track. 583 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 4: I had video components and. 584 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 3: A rocking band, and it was just me. And what 585 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,800 Speaker 3: I said was, you know, my whole goal was to 586 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 3: give the world a big bear hut. 587 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 4: You know, it's celebration of life and love and hope 588 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 4: and peace and joy. And that's exactly what I was 589 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 4: able to do. 590 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 3: You know, fear not. 591 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 4: Because the change has already happened, and together we fixed this. 592 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 4: Love always wins, It always does. Can take some time 593 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 4: to get there, and we win. Remember that we win. 594 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 4: We win, Baby, we win every time we went. I 595 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 4: am so bummed I didn't get to see the first 596 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 4: leg of the tour. Please tell me there's more coming, yes, 597 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 4: of course, Okay, yeah, I'm still on Black Mona lise 598 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 4: I'm still on Black Mona Lisea Volume one. Everybody's like, 599 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 4: when's Volume two. I'm like, no, I got to get 600 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 4: the rest of the world with Volume one. Album wants 601 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 4: to come out in September. 602 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 3: But because of the. 603 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 4: The attention that we've been getting and the love that 604 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 4: we've been getting from the UK, I'm signed to Republic 605 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 4: Records here, I'm signed to Island Records in the UK. 606 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 3: So the Island people were like, don't put the album 607 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 3: out because we're getting so much We're getting so much. 608 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 4: Bluh and so much buzz that if the album comes out, 609 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 4: we run the risk of cannibalizing the entire project. Because 610 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 4: the music industry is a singles market right now, so 611 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 4: it's whenever the album comes out, we'll be fine, but 612 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 4: let's like try to market these singles a little bit 613 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,720 Speaker 4: more and like even get more buzz around the singles 614 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 4: and blow them up, you know. 615 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 3: So we're pushing the album where I'm I'm I'm. 616 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 4: We're focusing on the UK a bit through the end 617 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 4: of this year, and and uh and America too, but 618 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 4: but like you know, it's more about the singles right now. 619 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 4: Broke a sweat, So like, go download it, listen to it, 620 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 4: call it into your radio station. 621 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 3: I don't know what they do. 622 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 4: I don't know what it is. 623 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 2: Keep supporting is all we need to do. Keep supporting 624 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 2: more music. Yeah, I love it all. 625 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: And Billy's final question, and I know this is going 626 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: to be a tough one for you because you lay 627 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: it all out on the table, so I'm not sure 628 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 1: what's left. But the name of the show is I've 629 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: never said this before. Can you think of something that 630 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: you've never said before? No, you've said it all. 631 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 3: I say it all. 632 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 2: That's a first on this show. 633 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 3: I can't think of something that I've never said. 634 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 2: And I actually believe that prior to May. 635 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 4: Nineteenth, twenty twenty one, it would have been I'm HIV positive, right, 636 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 4: said it all. 637 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 3: I lay everything out there, so there are no secrets. 638 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 2: How freeing must that be? 639 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 3: It is freeing because there's never a gotcha, gotcha? 640 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's what and that's what the cynical press 641 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 4: and the gossip stuff they five on that. Yeah, gotcha, gotcha. 642 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 4: It's the hiding of something. So when you don't hide it, 643 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 4: then there's nothing to. 644 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 2: Say, right you put it all out. 645 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 3: I put it all I always put it all the 646 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 3: way up. 647 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: Well, you put out not only not only things that 648 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: maybe other people would hide, You just put out everything. 649 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: It's whether it's feel good, whether it's inspirational, whether it's 650 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 1: something silly that you don't like in pop culture, whether 651 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 1: it's something you love. I mean, you just have such 652 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: an open dialogue with the world, and I think that's 653 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: truly beautiful. And like I said, that's the first time 654 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: someone honestly doesn't have something to say in response to 655 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:18,439 Speaker 1: that question. 656 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 2: But with you, you're You're the one person that I 657 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 2: believe that with so I I love it. I love it. Billy, 658 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 2: You're a gem. You know that I love you. You 659 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 2: know my husband loves you. 660 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: We're Billy fans of you artistically and personally. And I'm 661 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: really excited for all that's to come with you. You know, 662 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: you know you always have my support. 663 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 3: Thank you. 664 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: I've never said this before. Is hosted by me Tommy Diderio. 665 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: This podcast is produced and edited by Mike Coscarelli, and 666 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: executive producers are Andrew Paglici and Katrina Norvel At iHeartRadio, 667 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: I've Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis 668 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 1: Durant podcast work on iHeart Podcasts for more, rate, review 669 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: and subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode, 670 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy di Dario.