Speaker 1: That movie has probably been the most effective movie made
Speaker 1: to help people understand if you want to go into
Speaker 1: that world, this is what you're gonna have to understand
Speaker 1: and face. If you don't, if you not you saw it.
Speaker 1: If you don't really want to go into that world,
Speaker 1: get out of here. Welcome to more than a movie
Speaker 1: American Me, a podcast that digs into the history and
Speaker 1: mystery of American Me, a film directed by and starring
Speaker 1: Edward James almost that had a huge impact on Latino
Speaker 1: cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Fometo, and I'll
Speaker 1: be diving into the behind the scenes controversy. And although
Speaker 1: I keep getting warned time and time again to leave
Speaker 1: this alone, I am still on a quest to find
Speaker 1: out what really happened to Anna Lisaraga, Charles Manriquez, Manuel Luna,
Speaker 1: and potentially others, all advisors on the film American Me,
Speaker 1: who wound up dead in the weeks and months after
Speaker 1: the film's release. But more importantly, if they were killed
Speaker 1: because of their participate vision in the film. We want
Speaker 1: to find out why. Every episode, I'm gonna try to
Speaker 1: peel back a layer of the story behind this film.
Speaker 1: Thirty years after its release, by trying to go deeper
Speaker 1: into the intentions and the motives behind the film and
Speaker 1: the backlash. Our last episode was all about Edward James Almost,
Speaker 1: the director, producer, and star of American Me, Almost, has
Speaker 1: never addressed the aftermath of the film and seldom even
Speaker 1: talked about the film itself. He told our last guest,
Speaker 1: Raphael Augustine, that he quote can't talk about it. That
Speaker 1: clip you heard at the top was a rare instance
Speaker 1: of Almost answering a question about American Me from a
Speaker 1: young filmmaker at New York Film Academy during an audience
Speaker 1: Q and A. The young woman asks Almost if he's
Speaker 1: encouraging them to tell stories about great Latinos, why did
Speaker 1: he choose to play Santana? Coming off an Oscar nomination
Speaker 1: for his iconic role and standard deliver, Edward James Almost
Speaker 1: earned the biggest opportunity yet for a Latino filmmaker to
Speaker 1: direct and star in a major Hollywood release, and he
Speaker 1: chose a controversial subject for his rictorial debut, the Mexican Mafia,
Speaker 1: a notorious prison in street gang that at the time
Speaker 1: was at the height of its powers. It was a
Speaker 1: bold move and it didn't end well to this day,
Speaker 1: there's still so much stigma and mystery surrounding this film.
Speaker 1: One of the biggest controversies in the wake of the
Speaker 1: film is whether the film actually served to discourage kids
Speaker 1: from joining gangs, which was almost his intention, or if
Speaker 1: it actually in some ways made gang life seem appealing
Speaker 1: despite all the bad ship that happens to the characters.
Speaker 1: You know that The Chicago Gang Life, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the movie that that disclosest to reality, you know, that
Speaker 1: that that people go and watch and it's one of
Speaker 1: those films that gets kind of passed down from generation
Speaker 1: and generation. Uh, and it's still relevant, you know, and
Speaker 1: and it's still um but you said, it just gets
Speaker 1: kind of you know, passed down and watched and and rediscovered.
Speaker 1: But it's a class it's a classic. It's like to me,
Speaker 1: it's like it's like The Godfather, It's like Good Fellas.
Speaker 1: It's one of these films that captured like a real
Speaker 1: moment in time. That's actor Jacob Vargas. If you watched
Speaker 1: any movies in the or two thousand starring a Latino family,
Speaker 1: you know who he is. He played the tough kid,
Speaker 1: but the good tough kid, the one you were rooting for.
Speaker 1: Just to name a few of his credits, He's been
Speaker 1: in maybe The Loca, My Family, Crimson, Tide Get, Shorty,
Speaker 1: Selena Romeo, Michelle's High School Reunion, Next Friday, Traffic jar Heads,
Speaker 1: Caesar Chavez, and currently you can find him streaming a
Speaker 1: National Treasure, Edge of History on Disney Plus. As a kid,
Speaker 1: I really liked him as an actor, not just because
Speaker 1: he's very good, but because there were so few Latinos
Speaker 1: in film and TV, and I found him inspiring. Like
Speaker 1: a lot of people I talked to for this show,
Speaker 1: he grew up in Los Angeles around a lot of gangs.
Speaker 1: The world of American Me was a little before his
Speaker 1: l but it was familiar. He had friends and relatives
Speaker 1: who were involved in the life, and some who have
Speaker 1: even lost their lives. So we'll talk about his career.
Speaker 1: I want to know how he's thrived as a Latino
Speaker 1: in an industry that throws more oil, slicks and banana
Speaker 1: peals at you than fucking Mario Kart. But we'll also
Speaker 1: talk about being a kid in l A, growing up
Speaker 1: around real gangs, and the impact American Me actually had.
Speaker 1: Was it the cautionary tale almost claims it was, or
Speaker 1: did it somehow make kids want to escape into the
Speaker 1: dark and greedy world that presents this episode of more
Speaker 1: than a movie. American Me is all about the road
Speaker 1: paved with good intentions and where it really leads. All right,
Speaker 1: so why don't you start by just introducing yourself. This
Speaker 1: is Jacob Vargas and um I play Baulito in American
Speaker 1: In American Me, Jacob played Edward James, almost his younger brother.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of Latino actors at the time, Jacob
Speaker 1: grew up idolizing almost the cool guy on Miami Vice,
Speaker 1: the weird guy, and blade Runner. So he gets in
Speaker 1: the casting room for American Me, and e Jail isn't there. Instead,
Speaker 1: he watches two white guys argue over whether he should
Speaker 1: get this life changing role in the movie. I mean
Speaker 1: I basically auditioned, you know, and better remember, you know Eddie.
Speaker 1: I remember we're not calling Eddie now because because because
Speaker 1: we're boys. But you know, I remember watching everybody's almost
Speaker 1: in in my Miami Vice, you know, and I remember
Speaker 1: like he was just like a bad dude man, you know,
Speaker 1: He's had his vibe and it was so cool, and
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, specifically watching an episode where he
Speaker 1: like where he's on the beach, you know, and he
Speaker 1: and he takes his you know, I think he's like
Speaker 1: he's like wearing a speedo and he's like walking in
Speaker 1: the Miami beach and going to the And I was like,
Speaker 1: that's cool, man, because because I haven't seen I never
Speaker 1: saw that before someone that looked or resembled me doing
Speaker 1: that and looking like, you know, like a sex symbol
Speaker 1: was the coolest thing ever. Um. So I'm remember hearing that,
Speaker 1: you know, he was he was directing this movie, and uh,
Speaker 1: I went into auditions, but I think it for a
Speaker 1: small role. It was it was like maybe three lines,
Speaker 1: like for for one of the Homeboys, and uh. I
Speaker 1: remember his assistant at the time was a guy named
Speaker 1: Danny Otto. And uh you know, I have a lot
Speaker 1: of gratitude for for for Danny Otto because he said, hey, um,
Speaker 1: I think Jacob should read for this other role, you know.
Speaker 1: And I remember the casting director was there and they
Speaker 1: kind of got a little argument because the casting director
Speaker 1: was saying, no, no, that's already cast, and you know,
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, but I think I think Jacob
Speaker 1: was perfect for this role. And and you know, and
Speaker 1: I'm sitting right in front of him, you know, and
Speaker 1: having this argument, and he goes, no, I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna record Jacob in this role. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna send it to Eddie. I think Eddie should see him.
Speaker 1: And so they had me, you know, read the role
Speaker 1: of Polio Um and then and then it was like okay, thanks, Um,
Speaker 1: we'll be in touch. And actually, you know, they said, hey,
Speaker 1: would you mind traveling to uh to Fallsome Prison to
Speaker 1: meet to meet it with James almost And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, so so I'm gonna plane. It's up in
Speaker 1: the Bay area. So I remember, I remember going um
Speaker 1: outside of Folsom Prison. I had to go inside, you know,
Speaker 1: we had to go through the whole process. And I
Speaker 1: guess they were filming a lot of the stuff. They're
Speaker 1: already in production, shooting stuff on the yard. And you know,
Speaker 1: Eddie comes just to see me and he's and he's
Speaker 1: he's dressing his in you know, in prison and the
Speaker 1: prison blue is. I was like, you know this so
Speaker 1: but you know, and he just said, hey, man, just
Speaker 1: wanna kind of welcome you to the to the project.
Speaker 1: And just you know, I was already pressed with with
Speaker 1: your your read and uh, you know, I just want
Speaker 1: to let you know that that that you're the guy.
Speaker 1: You know, I was like, well, you know, a phone
Speaker 1: call would have sufficed, but hey, thanks, He's great. Um
Speaker 1: but but but it was such a cool experience, you
Speaker 1: know that that that he told me that in person,
Speaker 1: and and and he also you know, he said, look,
Speaker 1: I I I this is a really important film. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and you can tell like just
Speaker 1: how emotionally like invested he was in this because he
Speaker 1: you know, he said, look, we were losing too many,
Speaker 1: too many of our of our children too to to
Speaker 1: this violence. And I really want to tell a story,
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's a cautionary tale of what happens
Speaker 1: when you choose this life. So you know, um, so
Speaker 1: that's what we're we're you know, what we're making. So
Speaker 1: so I already kind of feel like, oh man, this
Speaker 1: is this is heavy. I felt. I just felt the
Speaker 1: weight of it, you know, and I just felt the
Speaker 1: the responsibility of it. But I've seen it, man, you know,
Speaker 1: I I I saw you know, at by the time
Speaker 1: I was I was at age, I saw like a
Speaker 1: lot of my my friends you know, I got for instance,
Speaker 1: that got killed, that we're in gangs and you know,
Speaker 1: um lost to drug dealing and drugs and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I saw the effect you know, that that it
Speaker 1: had so um you know, so I was like right
Speaker 1: there with him, like cool, then let's let's do it,
Speaker 1: you know, and knowing like you know, those people being
Speaker 1: kind of your peers, because you know, one of the
Speaker 1: things I'm so interested in with you is that you
Speaker 1: were so young doing this. So like the kind of
Speaker 1: kids that he's trying to reach are around your age.
Speaker 1: And so do you think, like looking at that, where
Speaker 1: you like, these guys aren't gonna listen to this ship?
Speaker 1: Or were you like, no, this can make a difference.
Speaker 1: You know, I thought it could make a difference. I
Speaker 1: really did. I Also, you know, it's Eddie almost telling
Speaker 1: you that, So you know, if I think it had weight,
Speaker 1: and so I I believe, like, dude, if anybody's gonna
Speaker 1: gonna do it, it's it's Eddie. Um. And you know,
Speaker 1: and if you look at my character, yeah, my character
Speaker 1: mirrors you know, those those kids who who idolized their
Speaker 1: older brothers or uncles who went to prison, you know,
Speaker 1: and who who looked at prison as something you know,
Speaker 1: like like like a badge of honor, you know, and
Speaker 1: and right, yeah, exactly, and um and just how easily
Speaker 1: that that cycle continues. And I remember when we were
Speaker 1: shooting some of these scenes where and anyway, he got
Speaker 1: super emotional. I mean he he had tears in his eyes,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's like, this is what I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: this is this is what we need to stop. Coming up,
Speaker 1: we'll go through some of the rumors surrounding the movie,
Speaker 1: including why certain advisers to the film wound up dead.
Speaker 1: But first capitalism. Welcome back to More Than a Movie.
Speaker 1: I'm Alex Romero. We're talking to the actor Jacob Vargas
Speaker 1: about the movie American. If you remember, we started this
Speaker 1: podcast because of the memoir by Danny Trejo. He said
Speaker 1: he turned down American me in part because he felt
Speaker 1: that Edward James almost wasn't taking it seriously, or maybe
Speaker 1: too seriously. We're trying to separate fact from fiction, and
Speaker 1: one of the biggest accusations from Danny Trejo is that
Speaker 1: almost began living his character everywhere, even in places where
Speaker 1: it wasn't appropriate, like a Jewish Delhi in Beverly Hills.
Speaker 1: The first time Jacob met Almost was actually on set
Speaker 1: and Foalsome prison with Almost wearing prison blues. But he
Speaker 1: didn't get the sense that Almost was still in character.
Speaker 1: What he did find was a man possessed in a
Speaker 1: different sort of way. Well, I mean when I saw him,
Speaker 1: he was actually in in wardrobe, so because we were
Speaker 1: working together and he was in the scenes and also directing.
Speaker 1: So um, I mean I guess so he would be
Speaker 1: dressed as s Santana would, you know, with with like
Speaker 1: the dickies and the and the penalties and all that.
Speaker 1: So that's normal. Yeah, He's work in the context and
Speaker 1: in the context, so so that that was not unusual. Um,
Speaker 1: and yeah, and I feel like he I think all
Speaker 1: actors do this in subconscious in a way we even
Speaker 1: though it's not method, we tend to pick up on
Speaker 1: on just some of the way this character would would
Speaker 1: speak and behave in some of the mannerisms. And I
Speaker 1: think sometimes that that bleeds out, you know, you know, subconsciously. Uh.
Speaker 1: I mean I've I've you know, done that before as well,
Speaker 1: you know where where my family my wife said, you know,
Speaker 1: you're kind of act a little different, you know, you're
Speaker 1: best because you kind of you know, you you do
Speaker 1: bring it home a little bit um and you know,
Speaker 1: it takes a while for it to you, for you
Speaker 1: to kind of shake off that that character. If you've
Speaker 1: been doing it for for a long time, that's really
Speaker 1: good to understand that. Do you like But but again,
Speaker 1: but going back to to the falesome thing. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean he was dressed in the blues. But because he was,
Speaker 1: he was shooting, you know, so they were already filming,
Speaker 1: and I don't think he'd say, hey, let let me
Speaker 1: change out of my my wardrobe to go meet with
Speaker 1: with with Jacob. You know, he just just walk over
Speaker 1: from set and say hello. And when he talked to you,
Speaker 1: he didn't talk to you like Santana. He talked to
Speaker 1: you like Edward. I mean, but Edward kind of talks
Speaker 1: like said, I mean you know it it. Ward does
Speaker 1: have he does have that thing, you know, like what
Speaker 1: he does have. He that was kind of his thing.
Speaker 1: I don't look. I mean I come thinking if there
Speaker 1: was anything out of the order, you are different. Um.
Speaker 1: I just thought that was just kind of Eddie. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: fair enough. Um So do you remember, like the first
Speaker 1: what's like the first scene that you got to shoot yourself.
Speaker 1: One of the first scenes was was the the letter
Speaker 1: scene where where where I where I come in and say, hey, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I got the letters that you sent me
Speaker 1: and I would I would read them, tell my friends
Speaker 1: and and you know, and he was kind of like
Speaker 1: brag about about about it. I mean, but but it
Speaker 1: was all he just felt very very natural. Man. You know,
Speaker 1: they Eddie Eddie created this really comfortable, um environment, you
Speaker 1: know where I feel like everybody felt listened to. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody really felt like like they were a part of
Speaker 1: of of of the film, like from even the X dress.
Speaker 1: You know. I remember he would he would tell the
Speaker 1: extras like, hey, this is this is a very important thing.
Speaker 1: You're not just in the background. You know, what you're
Speaker 1: doing is very important. So other people really felt, you know,
Speaker 1: the community because a lot of a lot of actually
Speaker 1: we're rule people for the neighborho were shooting a hazard
Speaker 1: and in in the projects. And I remember people really
Speaker 1: felt like like they were a part of it, you know.
Speaker 1: And and I remember the time, Um, you know, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of the homeboys that were like that
Speaker 1: were hired to do security, you know, just kind of
Speaker 1: so that everybody really felt like involved and uh and
Speaker 1: a part of it and action lives to us, it
Speaker 1: gives to us, it is us. You posted, uh a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, you posted a video from the
Speaker 1: documentary Lives and Hazard where you're being part of it?
Speaker 1: Is you being directed by Edward James Almost can you
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about what it's like to be
Speaker 1: directed by this guy who's such a legendary actor? Again, man,
Speaker 1: with going listening, you know, from thinking about about our
Speaker 1: conversation when we were filming, it was all he he
Speaker 1: would sit down with you and his and say, you know,
Speaker 1: I say, Jacob, this is this is such an important
Speaker 1: you know scene because you know, we need to to
Speaker 1: to to show the world, you know, the dangers and
Speaker 1: the violence of this life and and you know, and
Speaker 1: really kind of gotta get tell you just how deep
Speaker 1: and important this scene is. Um. And again man, he
Speaker 1: was like just super passionate about it, just you know, um.
Speaker 1: But then he just kind of let you do your thing,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And he didn't get too evolved as
Speaker 1: far as you know, giving you any line readings or anything. Um,
Speaker 1: but he would just kind of you know, and I
Speaker 1: remember one scene specifically, was the you know, the end
Speaker 1: of the movie where where where we where we do
Speaker 1: the drive by. I mean, he was a wreck. He
Speaker 1: was like an emotional like he was like crying. And
Speaker 1: I remember you're saying that this is you know, there's
Speaker 1: there's just too much of this, It's too much of
Speaker 1: this happy happening in our community, Jago. We're losing too
Speaker 1: many kids and we're losing you know, too many family members,
Speaker 1: and you know, like and this is it, you know,
Speaker 1: you you guys are telling the world. You know, this
Speaker 1: the you know, showing the world what you know, what
Speaker 1: this cycle does. The like I said, he he had
Speaker 1: a mission, man, like I I just remember, he just
Speaker 1: really believed that this movie could make a difference, you know,
Speaker 1: in in in you know, in our community. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't just for entertainment, you know, it was it was
Speaker 1: he didn't want to to glorify, you know, the the life.
Speaker 1: You can only control what you put out in the world,
Speaker 1: not how people react to it. And it's pretty clear
Speaker 1: that almost was making a movie with a message. But
Speaker 1: thirty years after its release, American Mean is not known
Speaker 1: for preventing gang violence. If anything, the movie seem to
Speaker 1: have caused more of it. Do you see any irony
Speaker 1: in a film that was intended to stop gang violence
Speaker 1: that may maybe it actually recruited more people too. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess there is some irony in that, but but
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm sure it probably stopped a few kids,
Speaker 1: you know, Like, I'm sure a lot of people will
Speaker 1: see that and say that I don't want any part
Speaker 1: of that as well. It feel like with certain movies,
Speaker 1: you know, it can it can be singled out that
Speaker 1: American mus is the only one like you look at like,
Speaker 1: you know, the Good Fellows and all these other films
Speaker 1: that are that are cautionary tales about the mafia, you know,
Speaker 1: in a way tend to glorify it, you know. And
Speaker 1: then just because you know, these actors did a really
Speaker 1: good job, and all these characters work were cool and
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, Santana was like a cool dude,
Speaker 1: and you know, he was in charge and and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, held a lot of power. So I just
Speaker 1: think there's an intertraction to to that. And some people
Speaker 1: will look at that above above. What the real meaning
Speaker 1: of of you know, the film is that it's a
Speaker 1: vicious cycle, and in the context of like this basically,
Speaker 1: I mean there was Boulevard Nights before it, But in
Speaker 1: a way, American Me like starts a kind of sub
Speaker 1: genre of these types of movies. And Clifton College Junior,
Speaker 1: Who's your Buddies in one of my favorites, which is
Speaker 1: one eight seven, uh. And but so in the kind
Speaker 1: of catalog of these kinds of movies, where do you
Speaker 1: rate American Me in terms of like who in the
Speaker 1: category of this kind of like Chicano Gangster Flick? Is
Speaker 1: it is American Me like the least glorifying? Do you
Speaker 1: think it's the one that's the most kind of cautionary?
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I feel like it's the the least
Speaker 1: glorifying in its intention, um, but also the more realistic,
Speaker 1: you know, I thought, because it it kind of name names,
Speaker 1: you know, and it way and and really you saw
Speaker 1: the truth. And I think because of that, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a lot it's more of an attractive film. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it definitely named names in the film, name Checkslamy,
Speaker 1: and a lot of the discussion around Anna and some
Speaker 1: of the other deaths where that it was retribution for
Speaker 1: participating in a film that some people felt was you know,
Speaker 1: libelous and disparaging. Um, Joe Morgan being one of them
Speaker 1: of like filed suit as as as an actor in
Speaker 1: the film, how do you feel about that? I mean,
Speaker 1: I obviously I always say at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I was just an actor, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I I wasn't aware, like I didn't know the story.
Speaker 1: I didn't know about any of this, uh, you know
Speaker 1: going into it. Um, you know, he's just just an
Speaker 1: actor playing a role. So and you know, I just know,
Speaker 1: like a corner, you know, Eddie, you know, I know
Speaker 1: he said I had he had permission, you know, to
Speaker 1: do the film the way the way it is so um.
Speaker 1: So I don't know where you know, it got lost
Speaker 1: in translation. But um, but you know, I mean at
Speaker 1: the same time, you you're always little, you know, worried
Speaker 1: about that, you know. Um. And I hope that's all
Speaker 1: in the past. Oh yeah that. Danny Villerel and Danny
Speaker 1: uh both said that they'd had people sort of warned
Speaker 1: them to be careful and in the process and in
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the film. You know, nobody's ever told
Speaker 1: me anything. So so so I don't know, maybe they
Speaker 1: don't like me very much, like David go out there
Speaker 1: and be free, you know, beyond in the open. But
Speaker 1: but I then again, I didn't you know, I wasn't
Speaker 1: portraying any in any of of the actual m M
Speaker 1: members either, you know, I was. I was just the
Speaker 1: little brother on the out side. Very good point, Yeah, totally. Um.
Speaker 1: And then on the street, I'm curious, like, well was
Speaker 1: the vibe right, like, like do you get people going
Speaker 1: to you and being like yo, like what happened? Like
Speaker 1: what what do you think the word on the street
Speaker 1: is is that this was that this was blowback for
Speaker 1: the film? Um. I remember when it first happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of people had questions and I had zero
Speaker 1: answers you know for them. Um. But I haven't gotten
Speaker 1: anything lately, you know, Like I said, like once, you know,
Speaker 1: you guys gotta touch me. I said, wow, American me. Right,
Speaker 1: you know, we've been talking about that film and like,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty five years. So um um, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people may have like forgotten about about it,
Speaker 1: you know, or it's it's not it's not that pressing
Speaker 1: of an issue as it was back then. I heard
Speaker 1: from other actors in American me that Chicano audiences weren't
Speaker 1: too happy with the movie or its depiction of Chicano culture.
Speaker 1: This is our first movie, some of them said, and
Speaker 1: Gang War is what we get. Jake. His parents saw
Speaker 1: the movie and didn't really know what to think. But
Speaker 1: for his own generation, the movie was an instant called classic,
Speaker 1: just not for the reasons almost would have wanted. Funny man,
Speaker 1: my parents, I'm thinking, I remember we watched we went
Speaker 1: to the movie there and we you know, I do
Speaker 1: think my parents, you know, thought it was kind of violent,
Speaker 1: you know. But my parents, you know, all they watched
Speaker 1: was like the novellas and like and like you know,
Speaker 1: like Mexican you know, television. So they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: so I didn't know who anybody was, you know, They're like,
Speaker 1: I don't know who then any actors are? They don't
Speaker 1: even know what I mean they did do now, but no,
Speaker 1: of course then exactly was I remember one time when
Speaker 1: I did something I did like a Spanish uh talk show,
Speaker 1: and my parents were so excited that I did this
Speaker 1: talk show, you know, and I was and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: you guys do understand, and um, you know, but it's
Speaker 1: just I think we're just from from two different Worlds totally. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean it's definitely not a movie that my parents
Speaker 1: would go watch, you mean, to be honest with you. Um,
Speaker 1: but I remember watching it with like a sold out crowd.
Speaker 1: I remember there was like lying out the door. It
Speaker 1: was sold out and people loved it, that's you know.
Speaker 1: And and the funny thing was, I remember walking out,
Speaker 1: you know, and people were like, Oh, that's cool man,
Speaker 1: that's Santana was a badass and and everybody, and I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, man, it's for it'd been a cautionary
Speaker 1: tale almost like it had the reverse effect, you know,
Speaker 1: because because these characters were again maybe because we we
Speaker 1: never saw ourselves up on screen and now now we're
Speaker 1: finally seeing ourselves, you know, in in in a big
Speaker 1: Hollywood film. Um, you know, did it glorify it? I
Speaker 1: don't know. My conversations are usually people people love the film.
Speaker 1: I mean, people love the film, but also to explain
Speaker 1: how how the prison gangs you know work, and and
Speaker 1: uh and h for anybody that wants to understand, like
Speaker 1: you know, the you know that the Chicago gang life.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the movie that that the closest to reality,
Speaker 1: you know, that that that people go and watch and
Speaker 1: it's it's one of those films that it gets kind
Speaker 1: of passed down from generation to generation. Uh, and it's
Speaker 1: still relevant, you know, and it's and it's still um
Speaker 1: but you said, it just gets kind of you know,
Speaker 1: passed down and and watched and and rediscovered. But it's
Speaker 1: like a class it's a classic. It's like to me,
Speaker 1: it's like it's like The Godfather, It's like Good Fellas.
Speaker 1: It's one of these films that captured like a real
Speaker 1: moment in time totally. And and as you said, it
Speaker 1: was a film where people saw themselves on screen for
Speaker 1: the first time. Um. So you you've touched a little
Speaker 1: bit about you've touched a little bit on on the
Speaker 1: on the very similitude, right, the authenticity of the film
Speaker 1: inside and outside of the jail. Um, there were extras
Speaker 1: that were actual gangsters in the in the dudes were
Speaker 1: in gangs. I mean, you see it in the Lives
Speaker 1: of Hazard. Can you talk a little bit about like
Speaker 1: what it was like to kind of interact with those people,
Speaker 1: how how that sort of worked. I grew up in
Speaker 1: the hood, I grew up with with gang members around
Speaker 1: me all the time, So it wasn't anything, you know,
Speaker 1: different from me. It's just they just happened to be
Speaker 1: from hazard, you know. Um, but you know, but it
Speaker 1: was they were cool, man, I mean they were cool.
Speaker 1: If anything, they would like, you know, um kind of
Speaker 1: give um, you know, can I help out live, like say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, cuff cuff at the bottom of your pant
Speaker 1: a little bit here the crease needs to be you know.
Speaker 1: So they're very particular about about how these guys should look.
Speaker 1: And I remember they were very particular about like not
Speaker 1: being wrinkled. You out. They'd be like, no, nothing, nobody
Speaker 1: would be wrinkled, like because you know, we were playing kids,
Speaker 1: I remember, and so I think like they were putting
Speaker 1: the clothes off for us, and they're saying, well, these
Speaker 1: these are like younger kids, so they wouldn't they wouldn't
Speaker 1: be as like well put together. And they guy said,
Speaker 1: oh no, man. Once once you get in, man, you're
Speaker 1: like you're ironing your your ironing your underwear, your socks
Speaker 1: decrease has to be perfect khakis with the cuff, yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, and so so you know, also like
Speaker 1: I remember when you know, I was I was doing
Speaker 1: the and one of the things I was I was
Speaker 1: putting a tattoo on on the you know, so a
Speaker 1: couple of guys say, this is how you would do it.
Speaker 1: You get the needle and you poke, you know so,
Speaker 1: so they were they became consultants. Um, yeah, in a way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but again, man, it was like a big family, like
Speaker 1: everybody was really kind of pulling together to make this
Speaker 1: movie happen. Yes, everyone was pulling together. But in the neighborhood,
Speaker 1: anger was simmering in the background. Some gangs wanted to
Speaker 1: be in the movie but weren't cast. Others were cast
Speaker 1: but didn't like sharing the stage with rival gangs. One
Speaker 1: of the people negotiating between the gangs in the movie
Speaker 1: was Analys Satica, a professional gang interventionist. It was her
Speaker 1: job to make sure the set was safe in a
Speaker 1: rough neighborhood. Every single day and every morning, the film's
Speaker 1: location manager, Antoinette Levine, would give everyone a safety talk.
Speaker 1: What was your impression of these kind of safety talks
Speaker 1: that folks like Antoinette Levine would give to the cast
Speaker 1: and crew. Um, honestly, dude, I don't. I don't even
Speaker 1: know if I paying attention to to the safety honest
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I don't know whether the
Speaker 1: guy is talking about what all right, that's very funny,
Speaker 1: but but I do remember, you know, they would say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess some other gangs were kind of
Speaker 1: coming around, and I remember there was an issue with
Speaker 1: some people feel left out, like why are they including
Speaker 1: this gang and this gang? And I remember there was
Speaker 1: some kind of like behind the scenes truth that was
Speaker 1: that was going on. But again, man, we weren't privy
Speaker 1: to that. I mean, we were young kids, so so
Speaker 1: I think we were we were kind of protected against,
Speaker 1: you know, against all of that, you know, and they
Speaker 1: kind of did a good job of of of separating
Speaker 1: us from that. Yeah, I want to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about, um, some of the consultants that were on
Speaker 1: the set, so UM, I'm sure you're aware that UM,
Speaker 1: about a couple of months after the film came out, UM,
Speaker 1: Anna Lisa was was unfortunately killed. UM, And there's been
Speaker 1: and there were a couple other folks, and there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of rumors about the motivations behind that. I'm
Speaker 1: just wondering, from your perspective as someone who's in the film,
Speaker 1: how did you do you remember hearing that news and
Speaker 1: do you remember how you felt. Yeah, it's funny because
Speaker 1: I you know, I had a lot of contact with Ana.
Speaker 1: I mean, she she was the one that was that
Speaker 1: helped a lot with with the extras and uh, and
Speaker 1: she was you know, they're kind of making sure that
Speaker 1: everybody was listening. You guys are gonna understand. It was
Speaker 1: the movie. You guys. You know, if you're gonna be
Speaker 1: in the scene, you gotta stay in the scene. You
Speaker 1: can't just walk off, you know and like leave and
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, because a lot of people don't
Speaker 1: know what it's like to be an extra, Like no,
Speaker 1: you're doing the same thing, the same scene over and
Speaker 1: over and over again. So I just I do remember
Speaker 1: her being being around there and and you know talking
Speaker 1: to some of the kids because you know, some of
Speaker 1: the kids were like we're still you know, uh kind
Speaker 1: of like the little pee wee's and you know, and
Speaker 1: someone wannabes and so she she's always like saying, hey,
Speaker 1: the movies for you guys. Man, you guys, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, and she was like gonna sit
Speaker 1: stay away from from this, to stay away from that
Speaker 1: and stay in school. So I just remember her being
Speaker 1: like very vocal um and yeah, and then I, you know,
Speaker 1: next to know, I heard that that that she was
Speaker 1: killed is really sad. Do you remember Can you tell
Speaker 1: me more about her and her character and how you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, I I didn't know her that well.
Speaker 1: You know, she she just seemed like like, you know,
Speaker 1: like like one of those aunts that's it's always telling
Speaker 1: you a stay school, you know, like, um, you know,
Speaker 1: don't be a pendjo and you know, um, so she's
Speaker 1: always you know, out there with with the with with
Speaker 1: the community, with the you know, with the and be
Speaker 1: be kind of a liaison too what the people needed,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and present that to the production.
Speaker 1: I say, Hey, these people need give him some water,
Speaker 1: or hey they're in the shade too long or something,
Speaker 1: you know. So and so, I mean that's kind of
Speaker 1: what I remember about her. Coming up on More Than
Speaker 1: a Movie, I asked Jacob about growing up in Pacoima
Speaker 1: and how he avoided gang life by basically entertaining the bangers.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to More Than a Movie. We're talking to
Speaker 1: Jacob Vargas about American So we're obviously here to talk
Speaker 1: about American me. But I wanted to ask a little
Speaker 1: bit about how you grew up like how you got
Speaker 1: to be so successful in this industry. I mean, first
Speaker 1: of all, my understanding is that you're from l A.
Speaker 1: You're from you were born on right, Yeah I was.
Speaker 1: I was borning, um, but my parents immigrated to the
Speaker 1: U S. When I was a year old. So I
Speaker 1: pretty much grew up in Pecoima, California. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: it was the hood pretty pretty much. Um, I grew
Speaker 1: up pretty much you know, breakdancing. So that was that.
Speaker 1: That was my thing. I I you know, it was
Speaker 1: like there was some kind of truce there where if
Speaker 1: you were breakdancing, then the gang's kind of left you alone.
Speaker 1: You know, they just kind of kind of give you
Speaker 1: a path, like Okay, he's a dancer. Cool, leave, We're
Speaker 1: not gonna try to recruit him or anything. So that
Speaker 1: was my thing. They would actually make a dance for
Speaker 1: him to be like hey, hey food dance. You're like
Speaker 1: all right? All right? You know that that was a
Speaker 1: trade off. Yeah. Um, you know, grewp group and Patoma
Speaker 1: went to San Frono High School, um, San fron Junior High.
Speaker 1: Jacob was a breakdancer in high school and that's what
Speaker 1: kept him out of trouble. Eventually, somebody suggested he try
Speaker 1: out for the school play at San Fernando High School,
Speaker 1: and that's how he found out what acting is really about.
Speaker 1: People throw food at you when they hate it, and
Speaker 1: then plan on becoming an actor. I got discovered breakdancing
Speaker 1: by my first manager, and so she was a teacher's
Speaker 1: aide at at at elementary school nearby I went to go.
Speaker 1: I got suspended for breakdancing. So you know, part of
Speaker 1: my punishment was when you gotta go pick up your
Speaker 1: sister from from school every day, so I started breakdancing
Speaker 1: in the schoolyard. Well we wouldn't pick her up this uh,
Speaker 1: this teacher's aid named Andrew Jones saw me and she said, hey, um,
Speaker 1: would you want to be an actor? I manage a
Speaker 1: few kids here that they do commercials and you know,
Speaker 1: they do some work, so you know you've got a
Speaker 1: really good look. Um, would you want to be a
Speaker 1: breakdancer and on on TV and commercials? I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I went not, So it's really odd man. So then
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, I how you know, if you
Speaker 1: think of it, now, like we hop in her car,
Speaker 1: you know, and like and she like drives us, you know,
Speaker 1: to my house. So next thing, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: uh ms Jones with what we call her. She said, hey, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to represent your son and as
Speaker 1: an actor and uh, you know, I'll take them to
Speaker 1: auditions and and uh you know, and and I'm going
Speaker 1: to manage him. Yeah. What did your dad say? Because
Speaker 1: I want to know the immigrant parents reaction. He's just
Speaker 1: like what what? Who is this woman? Where are you
Speaker 1: in her car? Why are you know? Why why are
Speaker 1: you putting yourself in in in you know, in danger
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. But you know, for
Speaker 1: some reason, I wanted to do it, like dad, come on,
Speaker 1: just just you know, and uh she said, look, I
Speaker 1: will pay for cool. My parents like, I don't have
Speaker 1: any money, you know, I'm not gonna pay for any
Speaker 1: classes or pictures or anything. And she's like, look, I
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. I'll pay for it. I will,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll front you the money. And you know,
Speaker 1: so she had a lot of belief in me, which
Speaker 1: is really odd because I just met this a lady.
Speaker 1: And then next thing, you know, you know, she I
Speaker 1: have an audition. You have audition, uh for a role
Speaker 1: of a breakdancer on Different Strokes, the TV show and
Speaker 1: I'll take you down to uh Universal Studios. You know
Speaker 1: they and did I auditioned for the role? Uh? They say, hey,
Speaker 1: can you start today? You know I remember audition like
Speaker 1: like like a nine in the morning and they said,
Speaker 1: can you come back at like noon and uh and
Speaker 1: start uh working on this. And the next thing, you know, man,
Speaker 1: you know, I spent a whole week on set. We're rehearsing,
Speaker 1: we do the live performance. You know, it's a small role,
Speaker 1: but it was but you know, it was in front
Speaker 1: of a live audience. I mean, it was just an
Speaker 1: amazing experience. It was great. And then you know, and
Speaker 1: uh so my dad said, Okay, maybe there's something here,
Speaker 1: you know. And the next thing, you know, I get
Speaker 1: my check and they're like, yeah, you stick to this,
Speaker 1: stick to this acting, son, right. And I remember because
Speaker 1: with that money, you know, I bought like school clothes
Speaker 1: for all my of my brothers were like, you know,
Speaker 1: because this was during the summer when this happened. Uh,
Speaker 1: what is your favorite scene in the movie. It doesn't
Speaker 1: have to have you in it. What is your favorite
Speaker 1: scene in the movie? And why my favorite scene of
Speaker 1: the movie and why that's good question. I mean I
Speaker 1: i'd have I'm biased, you know, it has to be
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, it has to be like you know,
Speaker 1: the the end of the film, you know, here where
Speaker 1: do you hear these kids kind of doing a little
Speaker 1: drive by, you know, uh and and they give it
Speaker 1: to the youngest kid, you know, to to to make
Speaker 1: his bones and and uh, you know, and the tragedy
Speaker 1: of it is there's not even a target. It's just
Speaker 1: like which one. It's like it doesn't matter, you know,
Speaker 1: So just the arbitrary you know, it is, and it's
Speaker 1: how callous it is. And that's that's the continuation of
Speaker 1: this cycle. But even that final scene carried its own
Speaker 1: kind of tragedy. An actor who played a young gang
Speaker 1: member in the back seat at the car was actually
Speaker 1: shot in real life before the movie's premiere. The shooting
Speaker 1: left him blind. Yeah he was. He was one of
Speaker 1: the kids. Uh he was. He was one of the
Speaker 1: kids that that there wasn't in the scenes with us.
Speaker 1: He was in the back seat. Yeah, and I remember.
Speaker 1: You know, It's it's funny because you you know, he
Speaker 1: just brought back a memory. Is that his big dream
Speaker 1: was like, dude, I can't wait to see this movie.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see this movie when it comes out,
Speaker 1: and that that was that was his his big um
Speaker 1: you know. I remember he was kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: in and out of trouble and and this was something
Speaker 1: positive that that that he was doing and moving in
Speaker 1: the right direction. And I remember um hearing that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that he you know, never got to see the film.
Speaker 1: That's tragic. Yeah. On our next episode, we talked to
Speaker 1: the actors who played two of your favorite characters from
Speaker 1: the movie, Danny de la Pas, Daniel vierrel A k
Speaker 1: a Puppet and Little Puppet. If that is so, why
Speaker 1: were we allowed to shoot We could never have made
Speaker 1: the film with that. Why we allowed to use like
Speaker 1: three hundred prisoners. You know, they could have killed us
Speaker 1: at any moment. That's on our next episode of More
Speaker 1: Than a Movie American Me. More Than a Movie American
Speaker 1: Me is a production of Exile Content Studios and Trojan
Speaker 1: Horse in partnership with My Heart's Michael Dura podcast network.
Speaker 1: The show is produced by me Alex Fumetto at Anger
Speaker 1: Yuka on the Internet and our senior producers. Nigel Dora,
Speaker 1: Rose Red and Cream Taps are the executive producers. Production
Speaker 1: assistance from Sabine and Jansen and al Thallio and Estella Emmett.
Speaker 1: Mixing and sound designed by the Water Albornos. Our executive
Speaker 1: producers that I Heart are Just Zeal Bonsas and Arlee
Speaker 1: and Santana. For more podcasts, listen to the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows. Five