WEBVTT - Jacob Vargas (Paulito) 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.480 That movie has probably been the most effective movie made 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.160 to help people understand if you want to go into 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:09.320 that world, this is what you're gonna have to understand 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.080 and face. If you don't, if you not you saw it. 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:13.680 If you don't really want to go into that world, 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.040 get out of here. Welcome to more than a movie 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.159 American Me, a podcast that digs into the history and 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.680 mystery of American Me, a film directed by and starring 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.360 Edward James almost that had a huge impact on Latino 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.080 cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Fometo, and I'll 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:37.159 be diving into the behind the scenes controversy. And although 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.920 I keep getting warned time and time again to leave 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.840 this alone, I am still on a quest to find 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:47.960 out what really happened to Anna Lisaraga, Charles Manriquez, Manuel Luna, 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.880 and potentially others, all advisors on the film American Me, 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.920 who wound up dead in the weeks and months after 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.840 the film's release. But more importantly, if they were killed 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.279 because of their participate vision in the film. We want 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.959 to find out why. Every episode, I'm gonna try to 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.600 peel back a layer of the story behind this film. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.559 Thirty years after its release, by trying to go deeper 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.760 into the intentions and the motives behind the film and 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:18.400 the backlash. Our last episode was all about Edward James Almost, 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.679 the director, producer, and star of American Me, Almost, has 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.000 never addressed the aftermath of the film and seldom even 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.720 talked about the film itself. He told our last guest, 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:33.160 Raphael Augustine, that he quote can't talk about it. That 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.039 clip you heard at the top was a rare instance 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.120 of Almost answering a question about American Me from a 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.200 young filmmaker at New York Film Academy during an audience 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.640 Q and A. The young woman asks Almost if he's 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.000 encouraging them to tell stories about great Latinos, why did 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.280 he choose to play Santana? Coming off an Oscar nomination 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:55.000 for his iconic role and standard deliver, Edward James Almost 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.480 earned the biggest opportunity yet for a Latino filmmaker to 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.200 direct and star in a major Hollywood release, and he 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:07.280 chose a controversial subject for his rictorial debut, the Mexican Mafia, 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.120 a notorious prison in street gang that at the time 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.520 was at the height of its powers. It was a 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.560 bold move and it didn't end well to this day, 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.880 there's still so much stigma and mystery surrounding this film. 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.320 One of the biggest controversies in the wake of the 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.919 film is whether the film actually served to discourage kids 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:31.200 from joining gangs, which was almost his intention, or if 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.880 it actually in some ways made gang life seem appealing 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.480 despite all the bad ship that happens to the characters. 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.119 You know that The Chicago Gang Life, I mean, that's 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:45.440 the movie that that disclosest to reality, you know, that 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.880 that that people go and watch and it's one of 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.120 those films that gets kind of passed down from generation 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.920 and generation. Uh, and it's still relevant, you know, and 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:58.919 and it's still um but you said, it just gets 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.880 kind of you know, passed down and watched and and rediscovered. 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.800 But it's a class it's a classic. It's like to me, 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.480 it's like it's like The Godfather, It's like Good Fellas. 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.600 It's one of these films that captured like a real 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:16.519 moment in time. That's actor Jacob Vargas. If you watched 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.080 any movies in the or two thousand starring a Latino family, 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.880 you know who he is. He played the tough kid, 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.880 but the good tough kid, the one you were rooting for. 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.000 Just to name a few of his credits, He's been 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.880 in maybe The Loca, My Family, Crimson, Tide Get, Shorty, 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:36.920 Selena Romeo, Michelle's High School Reunion, Next Friday, Traffic jar Heads, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.080 Caesar Chavez, and currently you can find him streaming a 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:44.240 National Treasure, Edge of History on Disney Plus. As a kid, 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.720 I really liked him as an actor, not just because 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.520 he's very good, but because there were so few Latinos 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.560 in film and TV, and I found him inspiring. Like 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:54.200 a lot of people I talked to for this show, 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:56.840 he grew up in Los Angeles around a lot of gangs. 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.680 The world of American Me was a little before his 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.880 l but it was familiar. He had friends and relatives 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:04.800 who were involved in the life, and some who have 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.960 even lost their lives. So we'll talk about his career. 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.840 I want to know how he's thrived as a Latino 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.160 in an industry that throws more oil, slicks and banana 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.159 peals at you than fucking Mario Kart. But we'll also 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.279 talk about being a kid in l A, growing up 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.599 around real gangs, and the impact American Me actually had. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.240 Was it the cautionary tale almost claims it was, or 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.840 did it somehow make kids want to escape into the 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.160 dark and greedy world that presents this episode of more 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.320 than a movie. American Me is all about the road 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:45.400 paved with good intentions and where it really leads. All right, 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.160 so why don't you start by just introducing yourself. This 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:55.920 is Jacob Vargas and um I play Baulito in American 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.760 In American Me, Jacob played Edward James, almost his younger brother. 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.520 Like a lot of Latino actors at the time, Jacob 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.600 grew up idolizing almost the cool guy on Miami Vice, 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.359 the weird guy, and blade Runner. So he gets in 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.320 the casting room for American Me, and e Jail isn't there. Instead, 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:14.880 he watches two white guys argue over whether he should 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.840 get this life changing role in the movie. I mean 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.160 I basically auditioned, you know, and better remember, you know Eddie. 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.320 I remember we're not calling Eddie now because because because 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.080 we're boys. But you know, I remember watching everybody's almost 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.680 in in my Miami Vice, you know, and I remember 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.240 like he was just like a bad dude man, you know, 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:37.000 He's had his vibe and it was so cool, and 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:39.880 I remember, you know, specifically watching an episode where he 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.200 like where he's on the beach, you know, and he 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.240 and he takes his you know, I think he's like 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.920 he's like wearing a speedo and he's like walking in 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.000 the Miami beach and going to the And I was like, 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.400 that's cool, man, because because I haven't seen I never 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.840 saw that before someone that looked or resembled me doing 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.040 that and looking like, you know, like a sex symbol 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.599 was the coolest thing ever. Um. So I'm remember hearing that, 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.800 you know, he was he was directing this movie, and uh, 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:05.760 I went into auditions, but I think it for a 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.680 small role. It was it was like maybe three lines, 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:12.480 like for for one of the Homeboys, and uh. I 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:14.960 remember his assistant at the time was a guy named 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.599 Danny Otto. And uh you know, I have a lot 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.360 of gratitude for for for Danny Otto because he said, hey, um, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.480 I think Jacob should read for this other role, you know. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.839 And I remember the casting director was there and they 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:29.760 kind of got a little argument because the casting director 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.120 was saying, no, no, that's already cast, and you know, 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:33.840 and he's like, no, but I think I think Jacob 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.159 was perfect for this role. And and you know, and 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:38.160 I'm sitting right in front of him, you know, and 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.000 having this argument, and he goes, no, I'm gonna have 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.720 I'm gonna I'm gonna record Jacob in this role. I'm 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.719 gonna send it to Eddie. I think Eddie should see him. 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:47.400 And so they had me, you know, read the role 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:52.479 of Polio Um and then and then it was like okay, thanks, Um, 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.280 we'll be in touch. And actually, you know, they said, hey, 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:59.440 would you mind traveling to uh to Fallsome Prison to 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.360 meet to meet it with James almost And I was like, okay, 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.200 you know, so so I'm gonna plane. It's up in 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.840 the Bay area. So I remember, I remember going um 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.040 outside of Folsom Prison. I had to go inside, you know, 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.200 we had to go through the whole process. And I 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.040 guess they were filming a lot of the stuff. They're 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:22.360 already in production, shooting stuff on the yard. And you know, 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.000 Eddie comes just to see me and he's and he's 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.200 he's dressing his in you know, in prison and the 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.160 prison blue is. I was like, you know this so 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:32.120 but you know, and he just said, hey, man, just 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:36.520 wanna kind of welcome you to the to the project. 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:38.640 And just you know, I was already pressed with with 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.480 your your read and uh, you know, I just want 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.680 to let you know that that that you're the guy. 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:45.840 You know, I was like, well, you know, a phone 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:50.400 call would have sufficed, but hey, thanks, He's great. Um 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:52.600 but but but it was such a cool experience, you 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:54.360 know that that that he told me that in person, 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.880 and and and he also you know, he said, look, 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:01.440 I I I this is a really important film. And uh, 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:03.800 you know, and and and you can tell like just 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.880 how emotionally like invested he was in this because he 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.000 you know, he said, look, we were losing too many, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.360 too many of our of our children too to to 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.160 this violence. And I really want to tell a story, 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.600 you know, that's that's a cautionary tale of what happens 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:24.040 when you choose this life. So you know, um, so 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.560 that's what we're we're you know, what we're making. So 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:29.120 so I already kind of feel like, oh man, this 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:32.160 is this is heavy. I felt. I just felt the 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:33.599 weight of it, you know, and I just felt the 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.360 the responsibility of it. But I've seen it, man, you know, 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.800 I I I saw you know, at by the time 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:42.640 I was I was at age, I saw like a 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:44.720 lot of my my friends you know, I got for instance, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.800 that got killed, that we're in gangs and you know, 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.040 um lost to drug dealing and drugs and all that stuff. 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.760 So I saw the effect you know, that that it 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.200 had so um you know, so I was like right 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.000 there with him, like cool, then let's let's do it, 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.439 you know, and knowing like you know, those people being 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.319 kind of your peers, because you know, one of the 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.280 things I'm so interested in with you is that you 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.240 were so young doing this. So like the kind of 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.440 kids that he's trying to reach are around your age. 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.400 And so do you think, like looking at that, where 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.559 you like, these guys aren't gonna listen to this ship? 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.160 Or were you like, no, this can make a difference. 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.800 You know, I thought it could make a difference. I 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.720 really did. I Also, you know, it's Eddie almost telling 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:27.800 you that, So you know, if I think it had weight, 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:30.600 and so I I believe, like, dude, if anybody's gonna 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.520 gonna do it, it's it's Eddie. Um. And you know, 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.160 and if you look at my character, yeah, my character 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:42.360 mirrors you know, those those kids who who idolized their 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.959 older brothers or uncles who went to prison, you know, 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:50.640 and who who looked at prison as something you know, 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.320 like like like a badge of honor, you know, and 0:09:54.320 --> 0:10:00.400 and right, yeah, exactly, and um and just how easily 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.120 that that cycle continues. And I remember when we were 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.360 shooting some of these scenes where and anyway, he got 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.480 super emotional. I mean he he had tears in his eyes, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.520 and you know, he's like, this is what I'm talking about, 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.240 this is this is what we need to stop. Coming up, 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:14.720 we'll go through some of the rumors surrounding the movie, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.640 including why certain advisers to the film wound up dead. 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:28.079 But first capitalism. Welcome back to More Than a Movie. 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.120 I'm Alex Romero. We're talking to the actor Jacob Vargas 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.200 about the movie American. If you remember, we started this 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.320 podcast because of the memoir by Danny Trejo. He said 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.880 he turned down American me in part because he felt 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:43.160 that Edward James almost wasn't taking it seriously, or maybe 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:48.000 too seriously. We're trying to separate fact from fiction, and 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.840 one of the biggest accusations from Danny Trejo is that 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:55.800 almost began living his character everywhere, even in places where 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.200 it wasn't appropriate, like a Jewish Delhi in Beverly Hills. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.839 The first time Jacob met Almost was actually on set 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.680 and Foalsome prison with Almost wearing prison blues. But he 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.400 didn't get the sense that Almost was still in character. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.040 What he did find was a man possessed in a 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.520 different sort of way. Well, I mean when I saw him, 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:20.040 he was actually in in wardrobe, so because we were 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.880 working together and he was in the scenes and also directing. 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.679 So um, I mean I guess so he would be 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.880 dressed as s Santana would, you know, with with like 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.720 the dickies and the and the penalties and all that. 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.520 So that's normal. Yeah, He's work in the context and 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.920 in the context, so so that that was not unusual. Um, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.719 and yeah, and I feel like he I think all 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:47.319 actors do this in subconscious in a way we even 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.840 though it's not method, we tend to pick up on 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.600 on just some of the way this character would would 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.440 speak and behave in some of the mannerisms. And I 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:03.400 think sometimes that that bleeds out, you know, you know, subconsciously. Uh. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.280 I mean I've I've you know, done that before as well, 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:10.000 you know where where my family my wife said, you know, 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:11.840 you're kind of act a little different, you know, you're 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:13.840 best because you kind of you know, you you do 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.280 bring it home a little bit um and you know, 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:18.600 it takes a while for it to you, for you 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.280 to kind of shake off that that character. If you've 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.480 been doing it for for a long time, that's really 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.160 good to understand that. Do you like But but again, 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.600 but going back to to the falesome thing. Yeah, I 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.880 mean he was dressed in the blues. But because he was, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.360 he was shooting, you know, so they were already filming, 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:36.320 and I don't think he'd say, hey, let let me 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:40.200 change out of my my wardrobe to go meet with 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.160 with with Jacob. You know, he just just walk over 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.600 from set and say hello. And when he talked to you, 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.120 he didn't talk to you like Santana. He talked to 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.240 you like Edward. I mean, but Edward kind of talks 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.280 like said, I mean you know it it. Ward does 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:56.880 have he does have that thing, you know, like what 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.160 he does have. He that was kind of his thing. 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.679 I don't look. I mean I come thinking if there 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.280 was anything out of the order, you are different. Um. 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:12.040 I just thought that was just kind of Eddie. You know. Yeah, 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.600 fair enough. Um So do you remember, like the first 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.920 what's like the first scene that you got to shoot yourself. 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:25.160 One of the first scenes was was the the letter 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.920 scene where where where I where I come in and say, hey, um, 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.319 you know, I got the letters that you sent me 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.360 and I would I would read them, tell my friends 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.440 and and you know, and he was kind of like 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.480 brag about about about it. I mean, but but it 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.560 was all he just felt very very natural. Man. You know, 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:49.360 they Eddie Eddie created this really comfortable, um environment, you 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.840 know where I feel like everybody felt listened to. You know, 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.680 everybody really felt like like they were a part of 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.280 of of of the film, like from even the X dress. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:01.880 You know. I remember he would he would tell the 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:03.920 extras like, hey, this is this is a very important thing. 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.600 You're not just in the background. You know, what you're 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.240 doing is very important. So other people really felt, you know, 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:10.959 the community because a lot of a lot of actually 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.040 we're rule people for the neighborho were shooting a hazard 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.120 and in in the projects. And I remember people really 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.480 felt like like they were a part of it, you know. 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.840 And and I remember the time, Um, you know, there 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:23.840 are a lot of the homeboys that were like that 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.880 were hired to do security, you know, just kind of 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.200 so that everybody really felt like involved and uh and 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:40.440 a part of it and action lives to us, it 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:47.160 gives to us, it is us. You posted, uh a 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.200 couple of years ago, you posted a video from the 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.200 documentary Lives and Hazard where you're being part of it? 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.680 Is you being directed by Edward James Almost can you 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:58.960 talk a little bit about what it's like to be 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.720 directed by this guy who's such a legendary actor? Again, man, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:07.080 with going listening, you know, from thinking about about our 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:11.200 conversation when we were filming, it was all he he 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.680 would sit down with you and his and say, you know, 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.360 I say, Jacob, this is this is such an important 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.360 you know scene because you know, we need to to 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.480 to to show the world, you know, the dangers and 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.240 the violence of this life and and you know, and 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.640 really kind of gotta get tell you just how deep 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:34.320 and important this scene is. Um. And again man, he 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.800 was like just super passionate about it, just you know, um. 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.600 But then he just kind of let you do your thing, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.440 you know. Uh. And he didn't get too evolved as 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:47.280 far as you know, giving you any line readings or anything. Um, 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.400 but he would just kind of you know, and I 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.920 remember one scene specifically, was the you know, the end 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.240 of the movie where where where we where we do 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.720 the drive by. I mean, he was a wreck. He 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.600 was like an emotional like he was like crying. And 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.600 I remember you're saying that this is you know, there's 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.120 there's just too much of this, It's too much of 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.000 this happy happening in our community, Jago. We're losing too 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.720 many kids and we're losing you know, too many family members, 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:13.840 and you know, like and this is it, you know, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.200 you you guys are telling the world. You know, this 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:21.360 the you know, showing the world what you know, what 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.120 this cycle does. The like I said, he he had 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.360 a mission, man, like I I just remember, he just 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:36.160 really believed that this movie could make a difference, you know, 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.040 in in in you know, in our community. And it 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.640 wasn't just for entertainment, you know, it was it was 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:47.760 he didn't want to to glorify, you know, the the life. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.520 You can only control what you put out in the world, 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.400 not how people react to it. And it's pretty clear 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.520 that almost was making a movie with a message. But 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:00.320 thirty years after its release, American Mean is not known 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.760 for preventing gang violence. If anything, the movie seem to 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.440 have caused more of it. Do you see any irony 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.760 in a film that was intended to stop gang violence 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.520 that may maybe it actually recruited more people too. I mean, 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.479 I guess there is some irony in that, but but 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:22.960 I feel like I'm sure it probably stopped a few kids, 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.560 you know, Like, I'm sure a lot of people will 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.160 see that and say that I don't want any part 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.440 of that as well. It feel like with certain movies, 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:31.639 you know, it can it can be singled out that 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.760 American mus is the only one like you look at like, 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.080 you know, the Good Fellows and all these other films 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.600 that are that are cautionary tales about the mafia, you know, 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.119 in a way tend to glorify it, you know. And 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.480 then just because you know, these actors did a really 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.840 good job, and all these characters work were cool and 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.760 and uh, you know, Santana was like a cool dude, 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.480 and you know, he was in charge and and uh, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.959 you know, held a lot of power. So I just 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.600 think there's an intertraction to to that. And some people 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.800 will look at that above above. What the real meaning 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.600 of of you know, the film is that it's a 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.679 vicious cycle, and in the context of like this basically, 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.679 I mean there was Boulevard Nights before it, But in 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.760 a way, American Me like starts a kind of sub 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.560 genre of these types of movies. And Clifton College Junior, 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:21.879 Who's your Buddies in one of my favorites, which is 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:26.560 one eight seven, uh. And but so in the kind 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.479 of catalog of these kinds of movies, where do you 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:34.280 rate American Me in terms of like who in the 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:38.399 category of this kind of like Chicano Gangster Flick? Is 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.159 it is American Me like the least glorifying? Do you 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.920 think it's the one that's the most kind of cautionary? 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:50.119 In my opinion, I feel like it's the the least 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:55.880 glorifying in its intention, um, but also the more realistic, 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.119 you know, I thought, because it it kind of name names, 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.160 you know, and it way and and really you saw 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.760 the truth. And I think because of that, it's it's 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.680 it's a lot it's more of an attractive film. Yeah, 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:15.320 I mean, it definitely named names in the film, name Checkslamy, 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.560 and a lot of the discussion around Anna and some 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.919 of the other deaths where that it was retribution for 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.800 participating in a film that some people felt was you know, 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:31.120 libelous and disparaging. Um, Joe Morgan being one of them 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:35.040 of like filed suit as as as an actor in 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.479 the film, how do you feel about that? I mean, 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.080 I obviously I always say at the end of the day, 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.040 I was just an actor, you know what I mean. 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.959 I I wasn't aware, like I didn't know the story. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.399 I didn't know about any of this, uh, you know 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.679 going into it. Um, you know, he's just just an 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:56.159 actor playing a role. So and you know, I just know, 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.560 like a corner, you know, Eddie, you know, I know 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.800 he said I had he had permission, you know, to 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.560 do the film the way the way it is so um. 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.240 So I don't know where you know, it got lost 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.919 in translation. But um, but you know, I mean at 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.320 the same time, you you're always little, you know, worried 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.479 about that, you know. Um. And I hope that's all 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.960 in the past. Oh yeah that. Danny Villerel and Danny 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:29.199 uh both said that they'd had people sort of warned 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.359 them to be careful and in the process and in 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.200 the aftermath of the film. You know, nobody's ever told 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.600 me anything. So so so I don't know, maybe they 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:39.800 don't like me very much, like David go out there 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.359 and be free, you know, beyond in the open. But 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.040 but I then again, I didn't you know, I wasn't 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.240 portraying any in any of of the actual m M 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:51.679 members either, you know, I was. I was just the 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:56.359 little brother on the out side. Very good point, Yeah, totally. Um. 0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:00.240 And then on the street, I'm curious, like, well was 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.480 the vibe right, like, like do you get people going 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.200 to you and being like yo, like what happened? Like 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:08.280 what what do you think the word on the street 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.199 is is that this was that this was blowback for 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.200 the film? Um. I remember when it first happened. Yeah, 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.160 a lot of people had questions and I had zero 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.680 answers you know for them. Um. But I haven't gotten 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.399 anything lately, you know, Like I said, like once, you know, 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:29.479 you guys gotta touch me. I said, wow, American me. Right, 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:31.840 you know, we've been talking about that film and like, 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:36.560 you know, twenty five years. So um um, I think 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:40.159 a lot of people may have like forgotten about about it, 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.399 you know, or it's it's not it's not that pressing 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:47.840 of an issue as it was back then. I heard 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.520