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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody is Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.

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Speaker 1: And we continue now with part two of our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Marshall Ramsey, right after these brief messages from our

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Speaker 1: general sponsors.

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Speaker 2: And it's so weird because you talk about writing when

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Speaker 2: I write, and I've written short story books, I do

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Speaker 2: a lot of writing on social media, like a lot

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Speaker 2: of people. It comes from the same pot. I picture

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Speaker 2: pictures in my head and then I either try to

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Speaker 2: translate it with my hand to draw it, or I

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Speaker 2: try to find words to describe it. So I mean,

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Speaker 2: if I write a short story, it's the same thing

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Speaker 2: as me coming up with a cartoon. It's just I'm

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Speaker 2: producing it in a different way. Did you learn that

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Speaker 2: I had wounds? Yeah, concussions. It had to be end seriously, Yeah, seriously.

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Speaker 2: I think I think some of it is obviously genetic,

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Speaker 2: you know, because I think talent you're gonna have to

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Speaker 2: put in the work, right. I'm a true believer of

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Speaker 2: the ten thousand hour thing, the Malcolm Gladwell deal. But

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Speaker 2: anything you love to do, it's not work, right, And

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Speaker 2: so I mean for years drawing illustrations and drawing pictures,

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Speaker 2: that's not work that's fun. Well, I've put in a

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Speaker 2: lot of time. I mean the year of the pandemic,

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Speaker 2: I did seven hundred drawings. Wow, you know, I mean

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Speaker 2: that was a lot of work, you know, but it

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Speaker 2: was not work. It was something for me to keep

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Speaker 2: my mind. I did free coloring sheets every day for instance,

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Speaker 2: to put out into the world, you know. So you know,

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Speaker 2: it was just different ways to be able to be creative.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that's I think over time, it's a combination.

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Speaker 2: Now if I go on vacation for two weeks and

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Speaker 2: don't draw, and I don't draw as much now as

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Speaker 2: I used to because I'm busy doing the other job.

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Speaker 2: But it's a little bit harder because I'm rusty a

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Speaker 2: little bit. All right.

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Speaker 1: So you graduate from Tennessee, right with the degree in marketing.

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Speaker 3: Hey, before we go there, the other the other professor

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Speaker 3: at Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, Julian, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get to her. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you graduate degree in marketing.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, at the University of Tennessee they have

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Speaker 2: the student newspaper of the Daily Beacon. So I worked

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Speaker 2: there for five years. Don't don't bring up five years

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Speaker 2: to my dad. He's even though he's gone. He still

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Speaker 2: would come back from the grade and strangle me for

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Speaker 2: that one I did. I switched major. Get over it,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's what happened. Get over it. Oh No,

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Speaker 2: I I was over it back then. I was fine

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Speaker 2: with that. So I won another football season, so he

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Speaker 2: was fan.

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Speaker 4: I kind of just fight it extra year in Oxford.

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Speaker 2: You know, after living there, I can see where you're

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Speaker 2: coming from on that one. The velvet ditch ain't Lyons. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's definitely yeah. Anyway, I'm so, I'm drawing and I

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Speaker 2: want to be a cartoonist. And you know, the nice

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Speaker 2: thing about the Daily Beacon was it was daily, so

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Speaker 2: I was doing five a week. I had thirteen editors,

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Speaker 2: I was doing the reps. I was getting better, and

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Speaker 2: I was getting better. I kind of hit a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a roadblock. When I was a senior, I

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Speaker 2: took a speech class and doctor Faye Julian was my professor,

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Speaker 2: Fay Julian Fay Julian. Fay Julian's husband was Jay Julian,

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Speaker 2: who was the band director, very famous at Tennessee for

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Speaker 2: many years, and Faye was a speech teacher. She later

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Speaker 2: became head of the College Communications and she was passing

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Speaker 2: the first test. It was my spring semester, my second

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Speaker 2: senior year, and I always have to make sure I

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Speaker 2: make that, you know, I have to make sure that's clear.

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Speaker 2: And she puts mine down and I'm looking around. Everybody

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Speaker 2: else is getting seventy five, sixty and all that, and

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Speaker 2: I got a ninety five. And Faye looks at me

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Speaker 2: and says, you can do better than that. And I

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Speaker 2: look at her like you are a crazy old bat

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Speaker 2: because I got a ninety five and I can do

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Speaker 2: not need to do better. And she looked at me

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Speaker 2: and she said, no, no, you can do better than that.

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Speaker 2: I said, what do you mean. She said, I've seen

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Speaker 2: your talent. I expect more from you.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And guess what, I felt my spy, and I felt

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Speaker 2: myself set up a little bit. I paid attention a

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Speaker 2: little more, and I worked really hard. And Faye would

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Speaker 2: show up every time I spoke in Knoxville and grade

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Speaker 2: me ye oh yeah, I mean. She would just be

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Speaker 2: in the back of the room with a notepad, just

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Speaker 2: tell me what I need to do better. She cared

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Speaker 2: about me, and she was so proud of me. And

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Speaker 2: the last time I saw her, I did a drawing

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Speaker 2: for the College Communications, even though I was you know,

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Speaker 2: they adopted me, so that was nice of them. And

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Speaker 2: she was there and I looked at her and, as

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Speaker 2: said Fay, I just am so throwed. She was starting

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Speaker 2: to slip a little bit, and it was not long

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Speaker 2: before she passed away, and she said, I just said,

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Speaker 2: I'm so proud that you're here, and thank you for

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Speaker 2: everything you've done for me. I got a chance to

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Speaker 2: say thank you, and that meant the world to me

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Speaker 2: because I'm really big on that. And I said, you

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Speaker 2: were my favorite professor, and I know I was your

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Speaker 2: favorite student, and she said you weren't, you were, and

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Speaker 2: you weren't. And I was like, who who your favorite student?

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Speaker 2: And she said Peyton Manning. So I do cartoons at

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Speaker 2: the Graduate Hotel in Knoxville, right, So I did like

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Speaker 2: fifty drawings for their lobby. Right. So if you go

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Speaker 2: into the Graduate and you see my work and the

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Speaker 2: one of the one of their I guess investors was

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Speaker 2: a fan of my work and wanted me to do

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Speaker 2: it was it turned out to be Peyton, right, So

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Speaker 2: so I I god, no, so I get to meet Peyton.

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Speaker 2: I got a picture of me and Peyton together, which

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Speaker 2: I will give you so you can publish it. But

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Speaker 2: once again I realized that I was much too short

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Speaker 2: of my college football. I was looking up and going, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm tiny and and I said, hey, I'm a big

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Speaker 2: fan of yours. I'm so honored to meet you. But

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Speaker 2: I got a I got a bone to pick with you.

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Speaker 2: And he said, what I said, Faye Julian, He said, oh,

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Speaker 2: do you know I was her favorite student? Really? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Is so CoFe was amazing, And I mean Peyton would

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Speaker 2: agree with me. He thought the world ever too.

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Speaker 1: He really was. For a guy that had the notoriety

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Speaker 1: he had, he really was just a kind of a

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Speaker 1: normal old dude in college.

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Speaker 2: He was so normal, And what I've heard about him

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Speaker 2: was like he would time himself in the shower to

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Speaker 2: see if he could be more efficient. You know. He

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Speaker 2: was always like really, that's what one friend said, you

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Speaker 2: know that he was always so driven everything. But he

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Speaker 2: seemed like he was having a great time when he

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Speaker 2: was in school. Honestly, he did seem that, Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: wish I'd have had that much fun, you know, at

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Speaker 2: the time.

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Speaker 1: But I remember when being an old miss fan, when

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Speaker 1: he announced he was going to Tennessee and all the

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Speaker 1: old miss people were just so angry.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then I remember, like a couple of years later, thinking,

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Speaker 1: Dad guming, I can't hate him. I wanted to hate him,

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Speaker 1: but I couldn't hate him. He just seemed like a

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Speaker 1: really good dude, which is neat. That so he he

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Speaker 1: invested or owns.

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Speaker 2: The I think he was one of the investors in

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Speaker 2: the Graduate down there.

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Speaker 4: And he was a fan of yours.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, well anyway, he told Ben Weepern, who owns

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Speaker 2: the Graduate, that's how that's how he found out about me.

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Speaker 2: So it was really good. It was really neat. It

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Speaker 2: was really cool because on the opening I got to

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Speaker 2: meet like the ninety eight national championship team and all

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Speaker 2: the coaches and all that stuff were there, and it

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Speaker 2: was kind of it was really great. But I think

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Speaker 2: the thing that impressed me the most about Peyton, and

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Speaker 2: I guess I can say this on air, is the

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Speaker 2: way that you know, he obviously cares for his family

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Speaker 2: very very much, and I got to meet his wife

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Speaker 2: and his children and everything, and that was really really cool.

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Speaker 2: It's always just nice to see people that you think

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Speaker 2: are heroes, you know, to see what the other side

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Speaker 2: of their life is like Archie was the same way. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, Archie, Archie and Cooper were there and yeah,

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Speaker 2: the Mannings are the whole family's just incrediinals yeah, and

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Speaker 2: he lies okay too.

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Speaker 3: All right, So from college, do you want to say

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Speaker 3: anything about Charlie Daniel?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah. So the other part in college was that

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Speaker 2: when I was, I guess a sophomore, I had another

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Speaker 2: class where I had to go interview somebody who did

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Speaker 2: what I wanted to do. Knoxville had a cartoonist at

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Speaker 2: the time. His name is Charlie Daniel and he he

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Speaker 2: left his job at ninety He did it for sixty

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Speaker 2: years in Knoxville. So not the guy that's saying no

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Speaker 2: went down to Georgia. No, there's no s on the

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Speaker 2: end of that now. He is he has never heard

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Speaker 2: that joke. Charlie. Charlie has a Charlie.

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Speaker 4: He retired at ninety yere.

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Speaker 2: He still draws, he's ninety six, still drives Sharper attack,

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Speaker 2: lives in Knoxville. He lives in Knoxville and his wife,

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Speaker 2: Patsy just incredible human being. He taught me everything I

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Speaker 2: needed to know in my career because Charlie was committed

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Speaker 2: to Knoxville the community. He sat on boards, he was

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Speaker 2: his wife was a big part of the Dogwood Festival

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Speaker 2: that was there. Charlie sat on the hospital board, you know,

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But Charlie literally gave back as

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Speaker 2: much as he took from Knoxville, and so he had

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Speaker 2: a sixty year career there. And it was so funny.

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Speaker 2: I won a nice award from the University of Tennessee

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Speaker 2: and I went for the thing and Phil Folmer was there,

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Speaker 2: the coach, and I was just glad to meet know.

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Speaker 2: I was like, it was nice to meet you, coach

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Speaker 2: Fullmer and everything. And he's like, YO, tell me a

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Speaker 2: little bit about yourself. I said, I'm a cartoonist. And

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Speaker 2: he said, do you know Charlie Daniel. I said, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's right there, Charlie. Charlie. Charlie had come to the

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Speaker 2: to the thing, and Charlie was there. And it was

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Speaker 2: like watching Phil former to turn into a fanboy, because really,

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Speaker 2: because Charlie done that all the time. But yeah, Charlie literally,

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Speaker 2: So when I went up to his office, he was

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Speaker 2: on deadline. He said sit down, and I sat down

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Speaker 2: and we talked and he drew his cartoon and he said,

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Speaker 2: you got anything for going on for dinner tonight? He said,

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Speaker 2: my wife would I would love to have you. So

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Speaker 2: we went to his house. I went to his house.

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Speaker 2: I had to put a brick under my tire because

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Speaker 2: I had a stick shift and he had a steep driveway,

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Speaker 2: and I was afraid. He still makes fun of me

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Speaker 2: about that. And then he said, you know, we got

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Speaker 2: a cartoonist convention later on this year. You want to go,

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Speaker 2: you can ride with me. And so I ended up

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Speaker 2: driving them across to Memphis. It was here in Memphis,

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Speaker 2: and I have a career because Charlie Daniel, because he

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Speaker 2: really believe that. No, no, definitely, because he gave me

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Speaker 2: the blueprint. I won the John Loker Award, which was

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Speaker 2: given to the top editorial cartoonists in the country for

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Speaker 2: in collegiate And you know, so I got to go

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Speaker 2: to that convention and I got to meet the other

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Speaker 2: cartoonists and I got to kind of see how I

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Speaker 2: was going to get this career formed because I got

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Speaker 2: to meet other people who did what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: Only because he just took an interest in you, because

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Speaker 1: he was because he had a big heart. He's that

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Speaker 1: way with everybody. A friend of mine's name Page Braddock,

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Speaker 1: pages ahead of Schultz Enterprises, which does peanuts. He do

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Speaker 1: the same thing with her when she was a cartoonist

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Speaker 1: at Tennessee. Okay, He's like, yeah, come on over the house.

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Speaker 2: We'd love to. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's very legacy of cartoonists from Tennessee. Because

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Speaker 1: you just mentioned three just out of curiosity.

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Speaker 2: There, there have been several that have come out of there. Surprisingly.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying you would think more like New York or

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Speaker 1: La or something like that.

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Speaker 2: I I guess sometimes it helps when you live like Mississippi.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you live in a funny place. You know,

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Speaker 2: I got a lot of material, tons of I've never

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Speaker 2: worked a day in my life. I have a crack

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Speaker 2: team of comedy writers at the state Capitol.

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Speaker 4: You live around them all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Charlie, I I don't know what to do without them.

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Speaker 2: I just think the world him and Patsy both with them.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, when we not as much as I

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Speaker 2: want to, just because I don't live near Knoxville that much.

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Speaker 2: But when I go to Knoxhall, I go see Charlie.

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Speaker 2: It's like I'm going to see my parents. No kidding. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's fantastic. So I proceeded to graduate and to honor

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Speaker 2: his legacy, I couldn't find a job and end up

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Speaker 2: being a changer. What I didn't know that part. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Dad was proud. Yeah, it's like, uh yeah, no, I

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Speaker 2: kind of Well. It was ninety one. The economy was rough,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not using his excuse. It's just newspapers were

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Speaker 2: not hiring and they were going to hire a young,

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Speaker 2: you know, whipper snapper cartoonist guy. So I ended up

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Speaker 2: going to work at Pope High School, Maria to Georgia.

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Speaker 2: I felt sorry for myself for a good six months.

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Speaker 2: Always tell people, and I will use general language on this,

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Speaker 2: or can I say fart? Yes, okay, I was like

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Speaker 2: a fart in the elevator, right. Nobody wanted to be

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Speaker 2: around me, but they couldn't get away from me. You know.

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Speaker 2: So I xerox and my diploma. I put it on

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Speaker 2: my barrel. You know. I threw a pity party that

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Speaker 2: was so great. I gave out snacks and then I

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Speaker 2: went to church. They were doing the parable of the talents,

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Speaker 2: and I realized I was the servant who was burying

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Speaker 2: my talent. And I mean it was like an epiphany.

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Speaker 2: And I came back the next Monday with a great attitude,

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Speaker 2: and the drug tested me because I thought I was

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Speaker 2: on something like, we don't know what's wrong with you, right,

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Speaker 2: So no, it was It was great because the teachers

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Speaker 2: were very supportive there. I started doing T shirts for

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Speaker 2: the cross country team. I started doing drawings for their

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Speaker 2: school paper, well things. I decided I would take an

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Speaker 2: art class, so I took a you know, I learned

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Speaker 2: how to paint. That's my first art class. I was exciting.

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Speaker 2: And then one day there was a lady named Maggie

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Speaker 2: that worked there also. Now Maggie was kind of an

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Speaker 2: inspiration too, because Maggie was forty five years old, which

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Speaker 2: I thought was ancient at the time. I wish I

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Speaker 2: were forty. I still ye, okay, and uh Maggie. Maggie's

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Speaker 2: husband was an I was an Eastern Airline pilot, and

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Speaker 2: as you know, they had the strike and the airline

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Speaker 2: up going out of business, so he lost his job.

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Speaker 2: They were on He was on strike for like a

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Speaker 2: couple of years, and and Maggie went to go work

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Speaker 2: as high school custodian and she never really had to work,

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Speaker 2: but she did it so they could have insurance. And

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Speaker 2: I just really touched my soul. I just that is

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Speaker 2: the kind of person I wanted to be around, because

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Speaker 2: she was not gonna feel sorry for herself. And we did,

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Speaker 2: you know, fuss a lot, but we became really good friends.

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Speaker 2: And one day Maggie came out to me and she said,

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Speaker 2: how'd you like to go out my daughter she just

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Speaker 2: broke up with her boyfriend. And I said, you have

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Speaker 2: low standards for your daughter. I am not going to

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Speaker 2: be a doctor, you know. Plus the janitor's daughter. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you could be running into Ruth Buzzy. You got to

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Speaker 2: be careful there. Yeah, that's in all kinds of yeah.

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Speaker 2: But I mean it was just like, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 2: Maggie was like I said, Maggie and I were there,

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Speaker 2: but we didn't want to be there. That kind of thing,

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Speaker 2: you know. It was one of those things. And so

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Speaker 2: her daughter was at the University of Georgia and she said,

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Speaker 2: I'll bring her that she's gonna be home this weekend.

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Speaker 2: I'll bring her to your other job, because I had

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Speaker 2: a second job at the golf course. And so she

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Speaker 2: brought her and she promptly locked her keys in the car. Perfect.

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Speaker 2: So I got two hours with her daughter, who was

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Speaker 2: I will say, very cute. She had beautiful blue eyes,

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Speaker 2: and so I was like, Okay, would you like to

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Speaker 2: go out? And so we set up a date. Bill.

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Speaker 2: I tell you that because number one, I always you know,

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Speaker 2: you would say, oh, I don't want to be being

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Speaker 2: a Jander had to be your worst job. It was

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Speaker 2: the best job I ever had because if I had

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Speaker 2: not met Maggie, I would not have three incredible boys

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Speaker 2: with those same blue eyes. Because I married her daughter

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Speaker 2: and been married to her for thirty two years?

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Speaker 4: Is that that crazy? How life oh unfold?

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Speaker 3: See?

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Speaker 2: The thing is, and it's like as I grew up

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Speaker 2: Presbyterian and I'm not now I'm Episcopalian, but I tend

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Speaker 2: to look if you look backwards, it all makes sense.

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Speaker 2: It was all meant to happen, right, But at the

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Speaker 2: time it's crazy because you think this is nuts. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Amy and I we had no job. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: If you get I got a job right out of college,

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Speaker 4: you'd never.

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Speaker 2: Never met Amy. Yeah. And so you know, for a

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Speaker 2: year I worked Another lady that worked at the school

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Speaker 2: looked at me and she said, oh, you seem like

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Speaker 2: a nice guy and you have a great work ethic.

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Speaker 2: I've got a friend who works at the local newspaper.

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Speaker 2: They need an advertising artist, and that's how I got

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Speaker 2: my newspaper career started. Really yeah, all because I had,

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Speaker 2: you know, because they saw my talent, but they also

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Speaker 2: saw my attitude, right, and because my attitude had changed,

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Speaker 2: I was able to get in that finally get into

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Speaker 2: a newspaper. And that was not my cartooning debut, but

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Speaker 2: that was my debut. And so Amy and I we

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Speaker 2: decided to get married when both of us made about

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Speaker 2: seven bucks an hour. And within like a month of

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Speaker 2: me getting married, I got a job from a headhunter

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Speaker 2: down in Houston, Texas that wanted to me, there's a

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Speaker 2: newspaper down there, and I got hired down there, and

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Speaker 2: we moved down there literally right after we got married.

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Speaker 2: And you know, and it all worked out.

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Speaker 1: Was the Houston thing you liked, your first full time

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Speaker 1: editorial cartoonist, gig no.

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Speaker 2: I worked there as advertising artists also, but they were

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Speaker 2: open to me doing the editorial cartoons. So I did

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Speaker 2: three to five a week for them, and then my

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Speaker 2: editor really thought it was good and we found out

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Speaker 2: he said you know, you need to be syndicated, I said, okay.

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Speaker 2: So he helped me write my cover letter, which he

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Speaker 2: had a line that was something to the tune of

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Speaker 2: paper trained and editor friendly. He was. He was an

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Speaker 2: old misgraduate also that lived down in Texas and named

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Speaker 2: Dan Turner, so probably about the same era as us.

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Speaker 2: And he was always talking about Yeah, I'm gonna be

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Speaker 2: married on this fair ground and Philadelphia, Mississippi and all

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Speaker 2: that stuff. And he's a big fair guy in the

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Speaker 2: Chelba County fair guy and everything. But he signed it

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Speaker 2: in lo and behold, I went from being a high

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Speaker 2: school custodium within three years. So I was in the

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Speaker 2: you know, New York Times in USA. Today I was

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Speaker 2: nationally syndicated. So it was just it was incredible. And

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's all a god thing, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'll be the first admit you know that I have

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Speaker 2: no control of this whole thing. It's it's God, it's

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Speaker 2: other people, it's me. That's how it worked.

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Speaker 1: It is always so interesting, Like when we talked to

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Speaker 1: Micro on his Supporting Greatness episode.

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Speaker 2: Which that was a great episode, by the way. I

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Speaker 2: love that one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you heard it. But it was a

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Speaker 1: band teacher. Yeah, it was a grandfather. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: the scout master. Scout master for the Scouts.

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Speaker 2: And angels come dressed in funny clothes. They really do.

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Speaker 4: Now that would be an interesting cartoon, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But it is interesting how you knew what you

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Speaker 1: wanted to do, but you had no idea how you

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Speaker 1: were going to get there and who was going to

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Speaker 1: impact your life along the way.

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Speaker 2: And luckily I was stupid enough did not give up,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: So do you remember, I'm curious, do you remember the

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Speaker 1: first one that got a national publication.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I had done, I had gotten hired. I was

386
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Speaker 2: out in San Diego working out there. So the syndicate

387
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Speaker 2: that syndicated me thought I did such a good selling

388
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Speaker 2: job selling myself. They hired me, and I moved to

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Speaker 2: San Diego, which I was pretty cool. I love it.

390
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Speaker 2: It was nice. So we lived out there a couple

391
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Speaker 2: of years and then Dan, my editor, called me up

392
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Speaker 2: and said, Hey, the Clarion Ledger and Jacksonmissippi is calling.

393
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Speaker 2: They love Oh, let's give up San Diego. Yeah, I said,

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Speaker 2: the number you have reached has been disconnected. And I

395
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Speaker 2: hung up on them, you know, because I just got

396
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Speaker 2: back from the beach, you know, which you know when

397
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Speaker 2: you're Melonova survivor maybe that was good that I left.

398
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Speaker 2: I don't know. But so when I was at the

399
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Speaker 2: coin Ledger, I remember the first one that I got

400
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Speaker 2: that was in Newsweek, and Newsweek was a big thing

401
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,160
Speaker 2: back then. They had like three cartoons in the weeks.

402
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Speaker 2: Still a big thing, yeah, but it was like then

403
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Speaker 2: it was for a cartoon. It was the thing back

404
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 2: then because that was really before the Internet, so it

405
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is kind of cool. So what

406
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 2: was it? It was one on the mirror. Space station

407
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 2: was falling apart, and it was during the UPS strike

408
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,200
Speaker 2: and the UPS had just finally came back, and and

409
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Speaker 2: I had like a UPS van pulling up the mirror

410
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Speaker 2: saying it's about time you got here. You know that thing?

411
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Speaker 2: It was that combination. And I don't have I have

412
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Speaker 2: very few of my things framed or anything, but I

413
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Speaker 2: think I still have that one framed. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean that I had been a a full

415
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Speaker 1: circle moment for you. I mean from eight years old, right,

416
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Speaker 1: and all of these different stops and places in your

417
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Speaker 1: life to get to where you really wanted to go,

418
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Speaker 1: and then here's something you created in Newsweek that has

419
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Speaker 1: to be I mean, I know all of us want

420
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Speaker 1: to be humble, but you had to be really proud.

421
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Speaker 2: You know. I'll sum it up. I think this way

422
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 2: because right about that time, I'd got an arts and

423
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Speaker 2: lecture speech at Millsaps College, which I had seen it.

424
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Speaker 2: I'd seen Steven Ambrose speak there, so I was always

425
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 2: like on my bucket list to go get to speak there,

426
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Speaker 2: and I felt like I'd made it when I got

427
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Speaker 2: to do it and my parents came, and it was

428
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Speaker 2: really the first time they got to see me successful

429
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Speaker 2: doing what I was doing. And I remember watching them

430
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Speaker 2: and they were laughing at my jokes, like oh, this

431
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Speaker 2: is cool man to make them a and I saw

432
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 2: my dad laughing, which that was really cool too. My

433
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 2: mom was nice, she was my mom. That's her jobs, right,

434
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 2: But but dad, you know you and he came up

435
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 2: to me after your.

436
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 1: Dad seems like a guy that would laugh it was funny,

437
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,640
Speaker 1: and if it wasn't, he'd just look at you and say,

438
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's not really funny.

439
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know he would do it. But he

440
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 2: busted your chops. He was he had ya that ability.

441
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the guy that said, yeah, you may be

442
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: the only two time nominated political person and incite him.

443
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 1: I'm the only person who cares. I don't see him

444
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 1: laughing at a bad joke.

445
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 2: Now you feel good? No, no, he's he's but you know,

446
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 2: he could make you feel good. But it was very strategic.

447
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 2: But he came up to me afterwards and we were

448
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 2: kind of in the green room and we were talking

449
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 2: for a second, and he said, you know, you're the

450
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 2: only person I ever knew that knew what they wanted

451
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 2: to do at eight years old and did it. That

452
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 2: was the finest compliment I ever got from my dad. Yeah,

453
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 2: that's pretty great. Well, that and I love you. You know.

454
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 2: It was right because dad grew up old school right,

455
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: you know, and when his dad died, my grandfather was incredible.

456
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: A lot of times you hear stuff Dave talking about

457
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: financial stuff. My grandfather would come in when we were

458
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 2: kids and he would come turned down off the heat

459
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 2: and he'd say, we're not paying TVA any more money

460
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 2: than we have to, you know, because he had survived

461
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 2: the depression, right, so he was. But when he died,

462
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 2: my dad changed, you know, and Dad hugged me for

463
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,479
Speaker 2: the first time after his dad died, and it was

464
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 2: just like, you know, I mean, you know, I knew

465
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 2: he'd loved me, but it was just like he realized

466
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. And it's so funny now that I

467
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 2: watch my boys drive off go into their lives, and

468
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 2: I remember when we would drive back to go home,

469
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 2: Dad would just kind of standing there and he'd look sad.

470
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 4: And I get it, now, boy, do I understand that?

471
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 2: Yeah?

472
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 1: All right, So, like a nutcase, you leave San Diego

473
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: for Jackson, Mississippi.

474
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, he's San Diego is great for weather. Jackson,

475
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 2: Mississippi's great for cartoonists. I get it. Yeah.

476
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 1: And you show up at the Clarion Ledge Or you're

477
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 1: an Atlanta guy, You've lived in Houston, you went to Tennessee,

478
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 1: so the South send you. So Jackson's not a complete

479
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: culture shock. But what is your job at the Claron Ledger?

480
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 2: Are you full time cartoonists? I mean, I made it,

481
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 2: that was it, that was what I wanted to do.

482
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 2: First day I walk in, I get there early. Nobody's

483
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: in the newsroom. Bobby Cleveland, who is our one of

484
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: our sports writers, and the rest is soul. He's no

485
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: longer with us. Funniest man. He could read the phone

486
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 2: book and I would laugh. He was just good. I

487
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 2: walked in and his his computer was on fire. It

488
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: was Belgian black smoke. And I was like, oh, you

489
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: literally mean it was on fire. I thought you was

490
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,120
Speaker 2: typing so hard. No, there was nobody in the newsroom,

491
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 2: but his computer was on fire, and I was just like, okay, God,

492
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: this is a sign you we are. I crawled under

493
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 2: the desk and unplugged it and the smoke went burning computer,

494
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 2: and I mean it was just like, oh, my interview.

495
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: I mean I tell sometimes I tell that interview story.

496
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 2: It was the most crazy, you know, two days of

497
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: my life. And I remember getting back and Amy's like,

498
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: why should we move to Mississippi? And I said, I

499
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 2: think it's the people. What was the interview? What what

500
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 2: made Oh?

501
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: No?

502
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: No.

503
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: I flew in at night and I remember flying in

504
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 2: over they have a reservoir and there was no lights,

505
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: and I thought we were crashing. So I put on

506
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: my life fest and then the slight attendant told me

507
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: to stop. And then they take me around to Jackson

508
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: at ten thirty at night and they say, well, there's

509
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 2: the UMC, the big hospital that's a good place to

510
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: go if you ever shot. I'm like, this is not

511
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: a chamber of commerce moment, you know, And one of

512
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 2: our editor writers gets in an argument, screaming match with

513
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: one of the representatives there, and I'm watching this whole

514
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: thing and I was just stunned, you know, it is.

515
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: The whole thing is just such a surreal interview. And

516
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: then I come back and Amy's like, what'd you think?

517
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 2: And I didn't want to tell her the truth because

518
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 2: I didn't want her to resist moving. But it turned

519
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: out great. Dan, my former editor, said something. He said,

520
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: Misssippi's gonna love you, and You're gonna love Misissippi. And

521
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: it's worked out perfectly. So here's the deal, right I have.

522
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: It's not really an uncle.

523
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: He's my wife's aunt's husband, So I guess that's an

524
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: uncle in law because it's not any blood, to be right,

525
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: it's my wife's aunts husband, so whatever that is to me,

526
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: he's my kid's great uncle, I guess. Anyway, he was

527
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: a pressman and her and when I say a pressman,

528
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if first, but he runs for it

529
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: up in New York and New Jersey and Philadelphia for

530
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: the big newspapers that are I mean, And at one

531
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: of the places, he had like three of these things

532
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: that would run all night and he would make sure

533
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: all the newspapers got out, and he was way up

534
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: in the organization. And I don't remember how many years ago,

535
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call it twelve is when everything in the

536
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: newspaper world started constricting really really, really bad.

537
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, my therapist says, that's when it happened.

538
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: I remember five years before that him saying, I hope

539
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: newspapers last long enough for me to be able to

540
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: get my pension. And it was like he went to

541
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: work with this excitement every day because he loved what

542
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 1: he did, but also this dread knowing that digital media

543
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: was going to put old school, actual news paper.

544
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: In the grave.

545
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: And while we still have the La Times in print

546
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: in the USA today, and the New York Times and

547
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, so many newspapers across our country

548
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: have really dried up, been consolidated. You know, the Commercial

549
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: Appeal in Memphis isn't even printed here anymore, and it

550
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: is a shell of what it once was in terms

551
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: of what the paper actually is. I don't think my

552
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: kids have ever sat down on a table and actually

553
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: read a newspaper, and I feel like we've lost a

554
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: piece of Americana, not having the actual smelly, inky newspaper.

555
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 1: The other thing that I really fear is we had

556
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: all these newsrooms across the country with people whose job

557
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: it was to go out and dig up news, sometimes local,

558
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, who's doing the the garden club thing. One

559
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: of the things I loved the most in high school

560
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: was every Saturday morning you could wake up and in

561
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: the newspaper was the box score of all the team's games.

562
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: And there was a beat writer who covered high school sports, And.

563
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 2: Did you ever get your picture in the paper playing all?

564
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 2: I thought that was the greatest.

565
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 4: Thing in the world.

566
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: And that's gone. But here's my concern about the breakdown

567
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: the newsrooms. It's not that as a high schooler, I

568
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 1: don't get my picture in the paper anymore. It's who's

569
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: out there digging up the real news, that's right. And

570
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: so when new sourcing and reporting and investigative journalism, and

571
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: these numbers of people out there with the freedom of

572
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: the press keeping our society honest start drawing up and consolidating,

573
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: we have fewer and fewer of them. I seriously worry

574
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: about how that plays some role in the division of

575
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: our country and the consolidation of power in our country.

576
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: And I know this isn't about editorial cartoons, but to

577
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: some degree, when you're an editorial cartoonist, you are just

578
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: reflecting what these very people are digging up and putting

579
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: out there for us to read and understand and contemplate

580
00:28:54,560 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: and think about. What are your thoughts on what the

581
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: actual newspaper shrinking in our world over the last fifteen

582
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: ten years means to our culture and how we communicate.

583
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: A few things. Number one, I'm about ready to start preaching,

584
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: so we'll just go ahead, because I mean, this is

585
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: I've lived this one, you know. No, no, no, I've

586
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: been on the fifty yard I've been on the fifty

587
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: yard line on this and up front, I've seen it.

588
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: I was made part time in twenty ten because of

589
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: budget cuts, went through eighteen rounds of layoffs. I saw

590
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: our newsroom shrink from over one hundred people down to

591
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: just a handful. And then with the laws of one

592
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: hundred down many really yeah, I don't know how many

593
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: they have now. They may have five or six. I'm

594
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 2: not sure.

595
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, how do you go from one hundred

596
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: to five and get the job done right.

597
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing number one one of the problems

598
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: that you have, and we'll's just say this. There are

599
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: news deserts. There are local newspapers of like thousands of

600
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: them have gone out. I should know that statistic, and

601
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: I don't know at the second, but it really is thousands.

602
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: But here's the problem. If you have a community that

603
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: does and I have a local newsp you do not

604
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: have a watchdog that's watching your city government. So guess what.

605
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: There are studies that show this that you are paying

606
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: more taxes up to three hundred and fifty dollars more

607
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: a year according to one study from twenty fifteen, So

608
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: that's twenty fifteen dollars. I'm sure it's more. So you

609
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: don't have somebody that's looking over bonds and stuff like

610
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: that and the city budget and so forth. So that's

611
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: a problem. But the other problem is, and we found

612
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 2: this out when I was working with Mississippi today. We

613
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: would go do community listening sessions, and what is people

614
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: are not coming to a common source of knowledge. They

615
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: don't come in with the same set of facts because

616
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: they're not reading the local newspaper. They don't know what

617
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: everybody else's neighborhood's going on. They don't know what's going

618
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: on in their city, So we're losing that because as

619
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,239
Speaker 2: much as I love social media, and I know you

620
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: do too, the algorithm gives you what you want to see,

621
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: not necessarily what you need to see, right, And so yes,

622
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: I do think it does play a big part of

623
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: our division. I'm very weird about my social media content.

624
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,239
Speaker 2: I generally try to put positive content on there, and

625
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: my editorial cartoons usually in one place, I'm really snarky

626
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: because even though the algorithm is not going to be

627
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: my friend because apparently outrage cells, I'm going to try

628
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: to pump out content that's, you know, because I want

629
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: to give somebody the chance that I had, right. I

630
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: want somebody to pick me up when there's a moment

631
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: when they might be feeling a little bit down. So

632
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: I want to do that with my content. One of

633
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: the things that I do with my job now, and

634
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll get into that, is that when I

635
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: was made part time in twenty ten, I suddenly had

636
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: half a day and I needed to make up a

637
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: lot of income so I could keep my house and

638
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: keep my kids fed. So I got a radio show,

639
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: so I did, and I knew nothing about radio. I

640
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: think they thought they were getting Dave Ramsey. They got me,

641
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: so so I suddenly that first two oh gosh, I

642
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: had a twenty five minute segment that I had to

643
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: fill in. Fifteen minutes into it, I ran out of

644
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: gas and my producer just luckily jumped in or it

645
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: would have been dead air. But I learned how to

646
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: do radio, learn how to do interviews. And then I

647
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: came out with a short story book because every morning

648
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: I would get up and write a short story, whether

649
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: I needed to or not, and ended up having over

650
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: one hundred stories. And so I created a book, sold

651
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: seven thousand copies of that. I'd never published a book

652
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 2: for but I learned how to do it. I self

653
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: published it, drove around the state, did signings because I

654
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: had half a day of doing it when they've made

655
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: me part time. As I was sitting there in that office,

656
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: I kept hearing my dad's voice saying, grab the rope.

657
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: Because I knew I didn't think it was the best

658
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: thing it was ever going to happen to me, but

659
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: I knew I was going to make it the best

660
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: thing that ever happened to me. One of the things

661
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: I do now with my new job is I'm I'll

662
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 2: be fifty eight years old here in a couple of weeks.

663
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: I'm feeling about double that right this moment. But that's fine.

664
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: But I want to give the students the same thing

665
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: that my dad gave me. I want to give them

666
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: the understanding that just because they think they failed, all

667
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: they've done is opened up the playing field for more opportunities,

668
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: because you never know where that chance is going. You've

669
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 2: got a list of people who changed my life, and

670
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: I pray to God every night and say thank you

671
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 2: for every one of them and every other person I've

672
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 2: come along because and I also thank him for all

673
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: the conflict and problems that I've had in my life,

674
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: because it's made me grow and become better. I just

675
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: don't think he can become better without that. And yes,

676
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: I do worry, but I want the next generation of

677
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 2: journalists to still live by the standards that make journalism

678
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: what it is and why it's so important. But I

679
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: also want them to understand that how we consume our

680
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: news and how we consume our information is changing by

681
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: the day, and we don't have control of that anymore

682
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: like we did. We had a newsprint and we had television.

683
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 3: One thing on the stats you mentioned it, So thirty

684
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 3: five hundred newspapers have closed, Yeah, along with over two

685
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 3: hundred and seventy thousand newspaper.

686
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: Jobs turn seventy thousand. Yeah.

687
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: See it concerns me because you just said some really

688
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: important Is.

689
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: That God first for everything?

690
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: Well, No, at the Memphis City council meetings, there used

691
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: to always be three or four reporters there and they

692
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't just report what the council member said.

693
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: They would go find out if they were full of

694
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: crap or not.

695
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: And then you would wake up every morning and get

696
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: the newspaper or the evening paper, and you would read

697
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: what was said, and then it would be reported on

698
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: whether or not that was accurate. And so our citizenry,

699
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: as a result of local newspaper was more involved in

700
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: their civics and more informed. And so it was about

701
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: the garden club, it was about the sports, it was

702
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: about you know, I look at old clippings about Lula

703
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: may So and so had her daughter in town from

704
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: Topeka and in attendance for these ten people, and you

705
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: know that's kind of funny and all that, but it

706
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: was that and it did connect community. And I just

707
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 1: can't help but think the breakdown of our local newspaper

708
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: is part and parcel to so much of the breakdown

709
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: of what we see in our civics today.

710
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: You touched on something I thought was really really important.

711
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: And you know why, I think the garden club stuff

712
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: and why high school football stuff and everything else the Mississippi.

713
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 2: I always have a theory about marketing down there. If

714
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: people know who you are, they'll pay attention. Right as

715
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: long as the newspaper was out doing those things, showing

716
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 2: the community they care, giving back and so forth. You know,

717
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 2: then people could handle the tough news and the tough

718
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: stuff that they saw. That's interesting and that makes sense,

719
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 2: you know, because it's like they trusted they trusted you,

720
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 2: they knew you. And I always thought TV did that

721
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 2: better than newspapers. But you know, promoting the people, not

722
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 2: just the product per se. But I feel like in

723
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 2: this world that you know, and that's why we like

724
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: listening to certain podcasts or we like watching certain because

725
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: we feel like we trust them. We feel like they

726
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 2: know them, like they care for us or whatever. But

727
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: you know, when you got that city Hall reporter. You're

728
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: talking about Memphis. That person may have been doing that

729
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: for forty years. So they had institutional knowledge too. It

730
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: wasn't just that they understood the procedures or Roberts rules

731
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: of order. They understood Okay, well, this is why this

732
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: is important because in context to what you know that

733
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 2: the city council did ten years ago, this this really matters,

734
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: you know. And so we lost a lot of that

735
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,479
Speaker 2: institutional history when we lost reports. That makes so much sense,

736
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 2: you know. So it's like, you know Rick Cleveland, who

737
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: I've worked with for many years, the sportswriter down in Mississippi.

738
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 2: He's been I mean, he's he was over the Hall

739
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: of Fame for a couple of years and worked there

740
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: before he joined on the Mississippi Today. But Rick knew

741
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 2: ever had interviewed everybody in the Hall of Fame. So

742
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: if you know, I trust Rick, when Rick has something

743
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: to say something about it, then you know what it's

744
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: probably right. Yeah.

745
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: So the irony of all that is a newspaper costs

746
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: or fifty cents or seventy five cents.

747
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: The advertising was paying for the newspaper, and when the

748
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: advertising went away because they didn't control the channel anymore. Right,

749
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: So when internet happened, that caused disruption, just like it

750
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: hasn't everything, you know, and for good. I mean there's

751
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: a lot of good things on the internet. I like

752
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 2: watching cat videos. They're pretty awesome, so you know. But

753
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: that said, you know, you're seeing now what television news

754
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: is having the same issue issue because well, you can

755
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: watch reels, right, people are sitting there. They're not watching

756
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 2: the Tonight show anymore. They're sitting there on their phone,

757
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: flicking through watching you know, whatever's on TikTok.

758
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 4: We'll be right back.

759
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: Do you know what percent of a newspaper's revenue came

760
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: from advertising versus subscribers.

761
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: I don't remember that, but I would say it was

762
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 2: most of it, you know. And the two biggest costs

763
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 2: you have a newspapers were people in paper, right, So then,

764
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 2: so that's where they would cut. So that's why the

765
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: papers got smaller. That's why the staffs got smaller, because

766
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: they were having to pay for those two different things.

767
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 4: So the clearing ledgers still exists.

768
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: I see stuff from them on my newsfeed on my phone.

769
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 2: Yea.

770
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 4: Do they still make a paper paper?

771
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: They still make a paper paper, and it's still printed

772
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: actually in Jackson. They actually do have still have a

773
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: press there and they do several other people's papers. I

774
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: do like the guy who's the editor now. I think

775
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: he's really trying real hard, and they're trying, you know,

776
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: they're trying to hang in there. I mean, it's I

777
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: was in that whirlwind from I was made part time

778
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: in twenty ten and I left in twenty nineteen, and

779
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 2: you know, I mean I was firsthand. I got to

780
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: see the challenges, you know, and of course with the

781
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: Internet you got analytics. You got to figure out what

782
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: how to break through the algorithm, how to be able

783
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: to get people's you know, it's just a different planet now.

784
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 2: But that's okay. I mean, like I said, you don't

785
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 2: complain about it changing. You've got to figure out how

786
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 2: to adapt and how to grow in that environment.

787
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: So as an editorial cartoonist, yes, with all of this

788
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: changing and all of the info changing and where your

789
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: stuff goes, how do you adapt?

790
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: It's funny, I'm sitting here looking right now at my

791
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 2: children's book I drop puppies and kiddies. Actually that's my therapy. No, no,

792
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 2: you you just keep throwing things against the wall and

793
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: see what sticks, try try things, so you can't be

794
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 2: afraid to say no to something if it fails, you know.

795
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: And so luckily, the same pot that makes me a

796
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 2: good editorial cartoonist has made me decent on air. It's

797
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 2: made me a good writer, it's made me a good

798
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: card you know, at a children's book author. It's made

799
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 2: me you know. So it's the same skills I've got.

800
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 2: You know, just because I'm an editorial cartoonist doesn't mean

801
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 2: that that's all I can do. You know. I can

802
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: still be creative. And at the end of the day,

803
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 2: there's people like my dad said that it can out

804
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: draw me and then it can't think me, but I

805
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 2: can outwork them.

806
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 4: So what brought you to Oxford?

807
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 2: It was kind of a combination of things. I had

808
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 2: a great job at Misissippi today. I still do cartoons

809
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 2: for them. I love them. They're fantastic. I think you

810
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: interviewed me Audi for MISSIPI today and I did for

811
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: MPB because I had a radio show on Missippi Public

812
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: Broadcasting as well. Amy's mom, Maggie, my mother in law,

813
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 2: she got breast cancer and she passed away and our

814
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: dog passed away the next day, which that was a

815
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: really tough one for my poor child as I'm telling him,

816
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: you know, because he was not there for Maggie. Amy

817
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 2: had been doing her job for a while. She loved it,

818
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: but she was tired. And we were empty nesters because

819
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: our youngest just went off to college and are two

820
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 2: oldest had just graduated from college. And she just looked

821
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 2: at me and she said, we need a change. And

822
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: I looked at her and I said, you know what,

823
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 2: I agree. And this job just opened up and it

824
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: was a chance for me to reinvent myself again, which

825
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: was fun, looked an opportunity, and we've I've been coming

826
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: to Oxford for thirty years, you know, I mean since

827
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 2: because I did Chancellor's Leadership class for many years and

828
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 2: speak to classes. I never could figure out which exit

829
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 2: of the square would get me where, but I now

830
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 2: I figured that out after living there for six months.

831
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: But we we love doctor, We love going out there

832
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: with our boys. Were up there.

833
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: It is a little bit of a cat ye, it's

834
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: pretty nice. Yeah, it's pretty nice.

835
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 2: You tend to adapt to the craziness of the university,

836
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 2: which has grown like a weed over the last five years.

837
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 2: If there's going to be a football game. You treat

838
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: it like a blizzard and everything you need. You go

839
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 2: shopping on Wednesday and you hole up until Sunday and

840
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: you know you'll know you'll get into restaurants as soon

841
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 2: as the students go offer Christmas break and you know,

842
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 2: it's just little things like that. But I like the rhythm.

843
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: You know, it's I had been going one hundred percent,

844
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: you know, bam bam, bam, bam bam for years, and

845
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: now there's actually a chance to breathe. And with our

846
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 2: boys now two of them living out of state, you know,

847
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: it's a chance for us to be able to go

848
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,959
Speaker 2: visit them. And we're closer to one of them by car,

849
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: so that's a that's a win. So so what is

850
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: it that you do? What is it that I do?

851
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 2: We have the Mississippi Media Lab, we're starting that. So

852
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 2: I work because this is so interesting. I work at

853
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 2: the School of Journalism, and the dean there, Andrea Hickerson,

854
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 2: is is incredible. She's just one hundred percent energy. And

855
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: she had contacted me about this and the Jordan Center,

856
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 2: you know, they needed a director of engagement, and then

857
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: the Media Lab did not exist, right, So this is

858
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 2: literally a clean piece of paper kind of thing, what

859
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 2: we're creating and to begin with. And you were a

860
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 2: writer for the Daily Misissippian, right, I was, you were?

861
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: You were? In fact, I love the fact that you

862
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: and I both managed to nearly get run out on

863
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 2: a rail because of stuff we did in college. What

864
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 2: did you go? Almost could run out? A couple of

865
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: my cartoons really got me in trouble, both of the

866
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: administration and the student boy. I'd done one about. It's

867
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: funny because you can remember everything I did, like eight

868
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: hundred cartoons. This was one I think I did about.

869
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: It was something to do with Israel. It was a

870
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: national cartoon. It wasn't even a local one. But yeah,

871
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: and I forgot the take on it. But it was

872
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: just made everybody mad. It was just hate my guts.

873
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: It was great. Yeah, I loved it.

874
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: People hated me because I spoke out against the Confederate flyer.

875
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 2: You were, you were ahead of the time that one

876
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: on that was so I know, it's funny now I

877
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 2: will say this. The day I was diagnosed with melanoma

878
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 2: was the day of Mississippi flag vote, and I had

879
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: been I proponent for changing the flag too.

880
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 1: I told it a lot of people don't know this. Okay,

881
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: the Mississippi flag thing. How many years ago was that?

882
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 2: That was two thousand and one, Okay, So that was

883
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 2: the Mississippi flag thing.

884
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: The massive deal because of the Confederate flag and the.

885
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: Top eighteen ninety four flag that had the stars and

886
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: bars on it.

887
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and the state flag, and there was a

888
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: vote about whether or not that should be part of

889
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: the state flag anymore.

890
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 4: Correct.

891
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: It's correct, and they offered up an alternative, which it

892
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 2: wasn't the prettiest in the world, but you know, it

893
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: wasn't tied to eighteen ninety four, and so there was

894
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: a big push to change it. The business community got

895
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: behind it and everything else. So I had done several

896
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: supportive cartoons to changing it because it was time. You know.

897
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 2: Obviously everybody was like heritage, not hate, but unfortunately the

898
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: hate really seemed to bubble up on that, and so

899
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 2: I on the day, the day of the flag vote,

900
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: I was getting threats long and we found out they

901
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: were from out of state. From all my life and

902
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: then it's five point thirty. My doctor calls and he

903
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: said you have cancer. And I started laughing, and he's like,

904
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 2: why are you laughing, and I said, this nicest call

905
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 2: of that all day.

906
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 4: Is it an interesting though? You've told me that story before.

907
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was hoping you would say that that

908
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: all the hate about the change the Pacific flag was

909
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: not from Mississippians.

910
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: Oh I know, yeah, I mean this is outside. This

911
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: is coming from Texas, which cracked me out. And I

912
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 2: lived in Texas, you know, so I mean, I'm I love.

913
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 4: What the point is.

914
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it was like it wasn't ye, it wasn't homegrown.

915
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 2: The call is not coming from inside the house. We'll

916
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 2: just put it that way.

917
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: So anyway, Okay, yes, I worked for the Misissippians. So

918
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: what you're doing now is this Yeah.

919
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: Well we just went off into a rabbit holes.

920
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 4: The way it works supposed to be a conversation.

921
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 2: I understand. So we are creating a space for students

922
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 2: to be able to tell stories in non traditional ways.

923
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 2: Because the Daily Misissippian Student Media Center, they do excell work,

924
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 2: newswatch fantastic Daily Misissippian. This semester has had some of

925
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 2: their best papers in the years. They covered everything from

926
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: when the Charlie Kirk you know, when when they came

927
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 2: on to campus rights they have been doing great work, incredible.

928
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 2: The radio station is good stuff too well. We're going

929
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 2: to be able to do everything from podcasting to being

930
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: able to which I'll be teaching, which is kind of funny.

931
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: And then you know, and we're going to create a

932
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:40,240
Speaker 2: structure so that we can go into North Mississippi towns

933
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: with news deserts and be able to do reporting on

934
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 2: what's going on with their local government, what's going on

935
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 2: in the state government, what's going on in the federal government.

936
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 2: Because of the Jerdan Center, and because of our director,

937
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 2: Steve Herman, who is former Voice of America reporter, we

938
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 2: would now have connections in Washington, d C. And we're

939
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 2: going to be able to have a place for students

940
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: to be able to go up to DC and do coverage.

941
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 2: So what we're doing is creating an experimental space that's

942
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 2: housed kind of in between the Student Media Center and

943
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: the School of Journalism that creates a space for students

944
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 2: to experiment and try new things, just like I've had

945
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 2: to do over the last fifteen to twenty years.

946
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 4: I e.

947
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 2: The Lab. That's the lab. That's why it's the lab.

948
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: It's truly laboratory of media.

949
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a lot of these interesting there's a

950
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: lot of these that are bubbling up. I think Vermont

951
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: they've up in Burlington at the University of Vermont. They've

952
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 2: got one of the best ones where they But the

953
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 2: University of Georgia does it. They actually run a newspaper

954
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: in a local community just to make sure those work

955
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: in their school journalism. So there's a lot of great

956
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 2: things going on out there to teach the next generation

957
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 2: of journalists to be able to have the skills. And

958
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 2: my thing is, you know, yeah, I trust the school

959
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: of journalism to teach them how to be good journalists.

960
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: What I want to teach each them has how to

961
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: be able to treat opportunities is what they think is

962
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: failures to be opportunity.

963
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 1: Out of curiosity. Is editorial cartoonists part of this whole thing?

964
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 2: I think so, because, for instance, the University of Tennessee

965
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: contacted page and I and a guy named Danny Wilson

966
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,959
Speaker 2: who does mascots and stuff like that, really great artist

967
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: and does a lot of work for the University of

968
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: Tennessee to tell the Gatlinburg fire story back a few

969
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 2: years ago when the town really burned down, and what

970
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: we did was. We studied two hundred hours of research

971
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 2: of oral histories, and I created narratives. I created twenty

972
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: pieces of visual art that told the story of the

973
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: fire from the second it started on chimney tops all

974
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: the way to the when it started to rain after

975
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 2: the fire. So visual journalism and stories like that, Yeah,

976
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 2: there's a place for that. And there's a place for

977
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 2: the skills that I use as an editorial cartoonist. For

978
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: them to be able to interpret things and be able

979
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 2: to create it visually.

980
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 4: That's so cool. That's got to be rewarding too.

981
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 2: It is. And it's like I've Alex and I were

982
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 2: talking on the way up here. I've got three or

983
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,399
Speaker 2: four friends that that have died, you know, and did

984
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 2: the near death thing, and they were telling me there

985
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: and all, I'm the same same story. And I don't

986
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,919
Speaker 2: think any of them are pulling my leg on this one,

987
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: but they were like, you know, the one thing we

988
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 2: truly brought with us to the other side was all

989
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 2: the moment of love and giving that we ever did

990
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: and and and you know, I mean, and I don't

991
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 2: know if I if it was the spinal surgeries I had,

992
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: or the concussions or what but something along the way

993
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 2: just made me realize maybe it's not for me to

994
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 2: start getting back. I'm on the back nine and he started,

995
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: and I want to have fun, but I want to

996
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 2: be able to get back and be able to give

997
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: what Charlie Daniel gave me, and Wanda Patterson and Faye

998
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: Julian and my dad what they did for me. We

999
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 2: will be right back.

1000
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 4: So there's more coming to your story.

1001
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: You and I are both too old to say we're young,

1002
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: but we're too young to say we're done. Is the

1003
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: way I think about myself in today's world. Eight year

1004
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: old you who wanted to be an editorial cartoonist, who

1005
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: has been that and has hosted radio shows and the

1006
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: PBS thing and is now doing the lab at Oxford

1007
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 1: and has written two children's books, and all of that.

1008
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 4: Feels like you just keep grabbing the rope.

1009
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: That's right, and not without Dad and Wanda Patterson and

1010
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: Charlie Daniel and all of these people, these normal people

1011
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: that we never know. You know, this, this trip that

1012
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 1: you've been on, really doesn't take place in the same

1013
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: vein that it did today. Right, What does what does

1014
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: that say to you about the importance of your role

1015
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: being the next guy to help the next person. I'm

1016
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 1: thinking about these kids at all, Miss, I'm thinking about

1017
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: the people in the lab that you're working with.

1018
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 4: You know, you have a role in paying it forward.

1019
00:51:55,120 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: Now, And to me, that's a I coached football again

1020
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: this year.

1021
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know. Yeah, and you get

1022
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: to coach and get your son.

1023
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: I did and you won beat his Yeah, just like

1024
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: I don't care if I ball or playing my wife

1025
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: and tennis.

1026
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 4: My job is to whoop that.

1027
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 2: I looked at the store all right after I heard

1028
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 2: that episode. I was like, I want to see you

1029
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: on this. It was something.

1030
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: But the point is, you know, I'm finding myself investing

1031
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: in young coaches as much as I'm investing in players.

1032
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 4: And it's you.

1033
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: You get to this interesting place that you end up

1034
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: becoming Charlie, Daniel, you end up becoming Wanda, you end

1035
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: up becoming Dad.

1036
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 2: Do you feel that, Yeah, I'm starting feeling. Let me

1037
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 2: tell you a quick story. When I had melanoma, I've

1038
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 2: got anxiety really bad when your skin tries to kill

1039
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 2: you and both my parents.

1040
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: I think you're allowed to have anxiety when you when

1041
00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: you feel like you may die.

1042
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 2: Of Yeah, at thirty two. It was kind of a

1043
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 2: little roster thirty three whatever, But when you have a

1044
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 2: little one too. A friend of mine lost his dad

1045
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 2: to the disease, Keith Warren, and so we got together

1046
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: and we were talking about it and he said, you know,

1047
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 2: people just don't know about melanoma. They don't understand anything

1048
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 2: about it. I said, you know, the thing about it

1049
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 2: is if you catch it early, it's it's like one

1050
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,439
Speaker 2: hundred percent curable. But you got to catch it early.

1051
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: It's like the crack on your windshield, right. If you

1052
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 2: don't get it fixed, it's going to spread and you're

1053
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 2: going to die. So we created a five k race

1054
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,439
Speaker 2: and we did that for ten years, and I got

1055
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: my plastic surgeon who caught mine and saved my life.

1056
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 2: He volunteered and he screened people. Just incredible Kenneth bas An,

1057
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 2: incredible human being. Literally I embarrass him all the time.

1058
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: I say, you saved my life because he did. One day,

1059
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 2: I was driving down the interstate and a guy got

1060
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,240
Speaker 2: on the radio and he said he was talking about

1061
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 2: something and they were talking about my race coming up.

1062
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 2: And he said, you know, I heard Marshall Ramsey talking

1063
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 2: about that, and I went and got amuld checked and

1064
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 2: it turned out to be a melanoma, and I've got

1065
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 2: a chance of survival. And he said, my wife died

1066
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 2: last year of cancer, and my daughter will now have

1067
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 2: a parent. And I just pulled on the side of

1068
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 2: the road and I just start bawling because everything I

1069
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 2: had held inside of me just released and I realized

1070
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: that really the only way to save yourself, and I

1071
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 2: don't you don't do I never did any of that

1072
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 2: for myself. I did it because I wanted other people

1073
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,439
Speaker 2: to have that. But my anxiety went away really yeah,

1074
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 2: over the melanoma. I've got it over my job and

1075
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 2: everything else, everybody the world, but Melania, because I realized

1076
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: that as long as I help other people on that,

1077
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 2: anytime you can help somebody on the journey you're on,

1078
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 2: you're going to be a lot better off. Now Do

1079
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 2: I live up to that every day? Now? Do I

1080
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 2: have days when I like don't want to getut of bed? Yeah?

1081
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 2: I mean it's just normal. So I wish I were Superman,

1082
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 2: you know. I try to get up and walk every

1083
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 2: morning since I've had the back surgery. I ran a

1084
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 2: marathon at fifty and had spinal surgery at forty three,

1085
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 2: that was great. I mean, in now though, that's cool,

1086
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 2: and I get free WiFi, so you know it's had

1087
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: its upside on that, but yeah, it's you know, I

1088
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 2: think at this point, you know, I I love my boys.

1089
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 2: I hate that I had to hustle so much when

1090
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 2: they were young. I feel like I was away a

1091
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: lot more than I needed to be. But I'm so

1092
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 2: proud of the men that they've become. All three of

1093
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 2: them are incredible. And I love my wife, who you know,

1094
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 2: we've been married a long time, so she's pretty much

1095
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: sick of me. I bet I have a lot of

1096
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 2: my stuff, but she's amazing. And so if I can

1097
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 2: get back a little bit to my community, to the students,

1098
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 2: and the students are incredible. I mean, you know, the

1099
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 2: selfish thing about it is that they inspire me.

1100
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: I was just about to say the payoff invariably to

1101
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: every guest that sits in that chair will say, I

1102
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: gets so much more out of it than I'll put

1103
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: into it.

1104
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, that's that that'll preach.

1105
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: What uh if you could line them up and just

1106
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: say what you want to say, what would you say

1107
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: to these people who affected you to these people who

1108
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 1: supported your greatness.

1109
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 2: More than things. Yeah. Thanks is just like you know,

1110
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: I don't focus enough. The only thing that I can

1111
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 2: truly say is that I now understand your brilliance, and

1112
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: I hope that I can carry half the water that

1113
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 2: you've carried in your life.

1114
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,439
Speaker 1: I think they'd all be proud, I think so. Yeah,

1115
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean still around.

1116
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: So we did want to said something really nice the

1117
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 2: other day too on my Facebook. So that was nice.

1118
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 2: So she she's still checking out and make sure everything's okay.

1119
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 2: Faye was very proud of me and and I was

1120
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 2: very favorite student, second favor man, I got number two behind.

1121
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's pretty Sweetpting.

1122
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 2: He's a pretty cool guy. So I feel like I did.

1123
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: Okay, there's out there right now listening to us, somebody

1124
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: who has artistic talent is trying to figure out what

1125
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: they can do with it.

1126
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 2: That's right. What's your advice to them? Do the work?

1127
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: Just keep grinding out there because you never know. There

1128
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 2: was a cartoon. I didn't draw it, And I remember

1129
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 2: there's like a guy that's like digging up in a

1130
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 2: diamond mind and he stops and it's like an inch

1131
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 2: away from hitting all the diamonds because he stopped, you know,

1132
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 2: and it's like, don't stop now. It's hard because it's like,

1133
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,479
Speaker 2: I'm sure my dad, and to his credit, he wasn't

1134
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 2: too big too sarcastic about me coming home and being

1135
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: a custodian and living at home, you know, after paying

1136
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 2: for college and then I come home and but I

1137
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 2: think he also understood I was working hard at it.

1138
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: And you know, that's the thing. If you work hard

1139
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 2: at it and your earnest. You know. The nice thing

1140
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 2: is we have this thing called chat GPT that helps

1141
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 2: you with business plans. There are different ways that you

1142
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 2: can make money. I mean, you go out and you

1143
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 2: go I mean I was at a Christmas festival and

1144
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 2: there were people there that were selling their goods and

1145
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: selling their things. Do the work, get really good at

1146
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 2: what you do, and then at the end of the day,

1147
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: if you can serve others while you're doing it, I

1148
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 2: think that's the ultimate.

1149
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 4: Amen Marshall one more time.

1150
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: And I'm sure there's others, but your dad, Wanda, Faye,

1151
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 1: Charlie and others along your way. Yeah, names that deserve recognition.

1152
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: Maybe that book doesn't exist without them, and maybe you

1153
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: don't have that career at the clearing Ledger, and maybe

1154
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: ten thousand cartoons aren't drawn, and maybe so many lives.

1155
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 4: No not, maybe definitely are not impacted without those tracks.

1156
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, everybody. Marshall Ramsey, now you know the name

1157
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: to match with those cool cartoons you have seen all

1158
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: over the place. The guy behind it is a great

1159
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: dude who is paid homage to these folks that have

1160
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: helped him get where he's going. But more importantly, it's

1161
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: now working to give back to the next generation of

1162
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: content creators. And I think that is the coolest part

1163
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: of the story of my friend. Thank you, thanks for

1164
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: being here. Always good to sit down and have a

1165
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: conversation with him.

1166
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 4: I always good to hang out with you.

1167
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: I guess before we sign off, I do have to say,

1168
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: I don't remember how it happened, but there is one

1169
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: of your cartoons hanging on my wall.

1170
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 2: Oh it's the Turkey one.

1171
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 4: It's the Turkey person thing that you drove.

1172
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 2: I don't know why. I don't know if I had

1173
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 2: to interviewed you at that point.

1174
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 4: Or oh you sent it to me in the mail.

1175
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 2: Was really moved by that, I really did. I thought

1176
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: it was great and I just thought it was a

1177
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: funny image, and so I was like, yeah, I want

1178
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 2: to get the no bill. I think you know. And

1179
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 2: so because I was a fan.

1180
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: So I show it to everybody in my office and

1181
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: it's one of the things I'm proud oft of. Is

1182
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: shortly after Undefeated and I started doing speeches, I told

1183
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: the Turkey person's story. Somehow you read it in something

1184
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: and reached out and we became friends. And then this

1185
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: cool cartoon of your vision of what the Turkey Person's

1186
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: story has came up and it is framed it on

1187
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: my wall in my office today.

1188
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 2: My friend, Well, I can put you on a list

1189
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 2: too then, because I'm just getting to know you. Has

1190
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 2: been wonderful, it's been awesome. I don't think it's a

1191
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 2: public yet. I think we need to.

1192
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 3: I tried searching you while over here.

1193
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: I don't think.

1194
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 3: I don't think it's online at all. We should we

1195
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 3: need to fix that. What's up that cartoon? Well, go

1196
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 3: go take a picture of it. Yeah, it's everywhere. It's

1197
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 3: really really cool. I mean it was when I got it.

1198
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 3: I was it's one of my I you know, look.

1199
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: There's awards and all that stuff, but it's stuff like that.

1200
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: That means the most. And so that's proudly displayed on

1201
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: the walnut paneled wall of my office right now. So

1202
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: take a picture and do something with it. So I

1203
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: thank you for that. Oh you're welcome, all right, buddy, godspeed,

1204
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: and I can't wait to hear what you do next.

1205
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 1: And one more time, everybody, saving Sam get it for

1206
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: your kids. It's beautifully illustrated and it's really a cool

1207
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: little book.

1208
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 4: And the first one is.

1209
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 2: It's Banjo's Dream. Yeah, yeah, there it is. There's a

1210
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 2: few of them you can get on Amazon. I think

1211
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 2: still in.

1212
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 4: There there there are Marshall Ramsey.

1213
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: Look it up all right. Good to see you, Save

1214
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: travels home and Merry Christmas.

1215
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: Thank you, Merry Christmashry buddy.

1216
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 4: And thank you for joining us this week.

1217
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: If Marshall Ramsey has inspired you in general, or better yet,

1218
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: make action by supporting someone else in their journey as

1219
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: a mentor a coach, a friend, or even loving your

1220
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 1: family better, please let me know. I really do want

1221
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: to hear about it. You can write me anytime at

1222
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: Bill at Normalfolks dot us. If you enjoyed this episode,

1223
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: please share your friends, share it on social subscribe to

1224
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: our podcast, rate it, review it, Join the army at

1225
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: normalfolks dot us, any and all of these things that

1226
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: will help us grow an army of normal folks.

1227
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 2: I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what you can