1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frying. This week on the show, we 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: talked about Helen Duncan is somebody I had found when 5 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: intentionally trying to find some October e seeming topics, And 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: what I had written in my little list of topics 7 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: was just something like Helen Duncan witchcraft act like in 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: some way that like noted that she was based on 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: what I had seen at that point. The last person 10 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: tried into that, I would have imagined that it was 11 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: a good hundred years earlier than the story we wound 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: up talking about. Nope, not at all. Uh, I went 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: down the weirdest rabbit hole, the best kind um, so 14 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: almost across the board every single thing I read about 15 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: Helen Duncan said with absolute authoritative confidence that Germany didn't 16 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: know that the bar Um had been sunk um just 17 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: one like just so clearly like in Germany didn't know. 18 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, that seems maybe a little unlikely, 19 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: because at this point, when a submarine fired torpedoes at 20 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: a ship that like they might not know whether they 21 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: had hit it. Or not. It's it would like there's 22 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: just a lot of noise associated with the with the torpedoes, 23 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: and so that like they would sort of try to 24 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: be listening for the particular sounds that would come from, 25 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: like a collapsing bulk head on the ship or something 26 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: like that, and it's like it's not always clear, so 27 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: I wouldn't necessarily know for sure. But this explosion of 28 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: this ship was so enormous and so dramatic, and so 29 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: soon after the torpedoes haven't I was just like, it 30 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: seems like they would have at least suspected that probably 31 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: they hit something, And so I just was like, am 32 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: I missing something here? It just seems really likely to 33 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: me that the crew on the submarine would have thought 34 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: they would have number one known they fired at a convoy. 35 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: They would have probably at least thought that they had something, 36 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: and then they would have reported back in. So like 37 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: this absolutely confidence that the Germans didn't know. I was 38 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: like really, And so I went upstairs to where my 39 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: spouse was doing stuff on his computer, and I was like, 40 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: how much do you know about World War two submarine warfare? 41 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: And his face lit up and he was like, what 42 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: are you researching? Is it a battle? I have books 43 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: I can tell you about, And I was like, you 44 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: gotta slow your role. I'm researching a medium, but I 45 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: have a question. And we talked through it, and it's 46 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: like similarly, he was like, yeah, it seems like they 47 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: must have at least suspected, And from what I can 48 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: figure out, yes, Germany did suspect that, like they had 49 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: at least hit and seriously damaged a major vessel in 50 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: this convoy. Maybe they did not know it had actually 51 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: exploded and sunk. Uh. So I just found the confidence 52 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: with which everybody that has written about this that I 53 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: found was like, and the Germans didn't know. I think 54 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: they knew a little bit more than they had an 55 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: inkles some of this may have been just an attempt 56 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: to justify not telling families for so long, and if 57 00:03:54,560 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: there really were efforts to deceive them by sending fake 58 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: holiday letters home, which I like, I found a source 59 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: that said that, but then trying to like confirm that, 60 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: I ran into just brick Well, so I don't actually 61 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: know if that for sure happened, which is why we 62 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: qualified it so much an episode, But like could definitely 63 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: and justify that a lot better if you were conclusively 64 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: presenting it as absolute established fact that Germany had no 65 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: idea this battleship had been sunk by one of its 66 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: you boats. Yeah, it's so tricky because I feel like 67 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: this comes up. I mean, we talked about it in 68 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: the context of most of our episodes, particularly to deal 69 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: with anything supernatural, Like, there are so many instances where 70 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: people consciously or not have a bias that they support 71 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: in historical reporting, and that ends up making very murky water. 72 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: There were two things about her story that reminded me 73 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: very much of other mediums we have talked about. I mean, 74 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: they're obvious like through lines, but the one that jumped 75 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: out at me first was her childhood of being allegedly 76 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: intuitive in some psychic way. And it reminded me of 77 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: Madame Blavatsky, who had like a whole backstory about how 78 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: she saw spirits in her house and communicating with things. 79 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: And I'm always like, I really wish this this is 80 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: a good use for the time machine, right, Yeah, could 81 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: we go back and see what, in fact was like 82 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: a pretty benign, boring, normal ish with none of this 83 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: probably true for either of them. Yeah, And I mean 84 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: one of the things that I it reminds me a 85 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: little bit of the episode that we just had on 86 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: Johann George Trip for We're were like, we don't know 87 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: for sure whether he really thought that he was getting 88 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: some supernatural knowledge. I really don't know whether Helen Duncan 89 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: really thought that she could talk to spirits and that 90 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's clear that she was using puppets and 91 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: and knitted undervests and like whatever too to make these manifestations, 92 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: But like, I don't know if that's something that she 93 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: was doing as part of something that was a scheme 94 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 1: from the beginning, or if it was more like window 95 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: dressing on a sincerely held belief about right right, I 96 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: don't I don't really know. Right that is something that's 97 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: very much in common with the Shrepford story the other thing, 98 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: and it relates to those props and people working to 99 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: disprove her. That reminded me of another episode was the 100 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: I thought about our episode on Charles Colchester, who to 101 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: jog Anyone's memories was the alleged medium that was favored 102 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: by Mary Todd Lincoln, and how at one point someone 103 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: who was worried about the Lincoln's and about Mrs Lincoln 104 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: being involved in this had like reached out and grabbed 105 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: ahold of somebody's hand during a seance that he obviously 106 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: should not have and that causing an uproar. And I 107 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: was like, there's always this moment, right, this moment we're 108 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: just one person goes no, you're not and manages to 109 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: physically touch something that is obvious proof. And as we 110 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: talked about, that doesn't matter to people who really want 111 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: to believe it. Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah, so yeah, 112 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: I uh, I enjoyed reading a lot of old a 113 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: lot of old laws, the text of them. I found 114 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: the idea of being declared rogan vagabond kind of delightful 115 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, just in general. I did not, however, 116 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: read all of the hundreds and hundreds of pages of 117 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: trial transcript because I I thought those were going to 118 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: be fun. They were not fun, uh, because sometimes reading 119 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff can be a little a little 120 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: cookie and fun. And this was just person after person 121 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: talking about uh stuff that was It wound up being 122 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: incredibly dry, more dry than you would maybe think about 123 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: people being questioned about spirit manifestations that a medium had done. Um, 124 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: So I read all the introductory material of the trial 125 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: transcripts and then kind of skimmed the transcripts themselves. They're 126 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: very long. You didn't want to hear somebody fervently recounting 127 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:47,359 Speaker 1: how they talked to their and One of our episodes 128 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: this week was on Edward May and his medical treatise 129 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: that he wrote about when he thought he found a 130 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: serpent or monster inside someone's heart during an autopsy way 131 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: back in the seventeenth century. I'm just to start blaming 132 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: my heart monster for every time I'm less than an 133 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: ideal person. That seems fine. Yeah, Yeah, this was a 134 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: tricky one to get resources for. It was something that 135 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: had been on my list for about a year because 136 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: I had stumbled across the treatise itself and thought, wow, 137 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: what a weird kind of creepy story. I don't know 138 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: if there's a whole episode there, but I'll like put 139 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: it on the October list as something sort of October 140 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: e in subject matter um and then find finding any 141 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: resources beyond the text itself was a little bit of 142 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: a challenge. And so some of the information that's in 143 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: here is like footnotes from other sources that are not 144 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: about this at all, but that like mentioned May in 145 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: some way or mentioned this heart idea in some way 146 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: or make reference to the Museum Minerva. UM. Most of 147 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: the information that I found about that was in footnotes 148 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: about people who were involved with it in some way UM. 149 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: And there were only a couple of papers that had 150 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: been written about it in more modern years, and one 151 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: of them I had access to. In the other one 152 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: I did not. So I did what I do sometimes, 153 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: and I sent a little note some a spouse who's 154 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: a librarian, just to say, hey, is this a paper 155 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: that you have access to? We have a clean show. 156 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: So I can't replicate exactly what he said, but I 157 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: heard the exclamations start upstairs in the room where he works, 158 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: and then he came down the steps and was like 159 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: is this Halloween? What kind of horrifying situation is this? 160 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: But like with a lot of profanities inserted around the 161 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: words that I said, UM, he doesn't necessarily like read 162 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: whatever I asked him if he has as access to, 163 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: but in this particular one he did, and he was like, 164 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: I wish I had not looked at this picture of 165 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: the of the heart with a snake in it, And 166 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: I was like, I didn't. I did not expect you 167 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: to find it as troubling as you clearly have. I 168 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, I want a Museum Minerva T shirt. 169 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, like um as though it's are the school 170 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: we attended, but that seems great. Yeah yeah. Um. As 171 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: a total random coincidence, I made a trip to Philadelphia 172 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: back before COVID ever happened, which is how long ago 173 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: this was, and I went to the Mooder Museum, and 174 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: by total coincidence, they happens to have an exhibition going 175 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: at that time called Imperfecta, which was about this whole 176 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: idea of quote monsters in the medieval and early modern 177 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: period UM and how people were thinking about embryology and 178 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: tara apology that we would think of as fields today, 179 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: and like all of the religious and supernatural and superstitious 180 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: layers of meaning that people put on these kinds of um, 181 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: like disabilities and congenital issues and all of this kind 182 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: of stuff. And I at the time was like, I 183 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: wonder if there is some kind of episode in this, 184 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: and I did not find an episode in it at 185 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: that time, but now now years later, it has circled 186 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: back around through this episode on Edward May's medical treatise 187 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: and whether somebody had a serpent and his heart. I 188 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: love it. I like that the um. The drawing, which 189 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 1: apparently horrified poor Patrick, is one of the closest illustrations 190 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: of a heart where you actually kind of see the 191 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: connection to how the quicken and simple way that we 192 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: would normally draw a heart like on a valid time. 193 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: It looks the closest to that of most I've seen. Yeah. Yeah, 194 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: the heart as it's drawn with the snake, and it 195 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: doesn't really have a suggestion that there are also atria 196 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: in the right. It looks like the heart is just 197 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: made up of ventricles and a snake. Yes, you know, 198 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: it's a cutie pie. I know what's true, Cedric. I 199 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: really like the idea that, um, garlic killed the snake 200 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: and this is good for your heart. Yeah. I mean 201 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: there are lots of suggestions that eating garlic is good 202 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: for your body in a variety of place, but I 203 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: like that it may have started with the concept of 204 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: like it'll kill your heartworms. Yeah. Yeah. Um. My first 205 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: encounter with the doctrine of signatures, which we talked about 206 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: in this episode was I think I'm pretty sure during 207 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: massage school, because we had a one day lesson in 208 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: like herbal medicine, and it kept coming up, and I 209 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: kept thinking, Okay, I see what you're saying. I see 210 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: what you're saying. I don't know if this necessarily holds 211 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: up right, Um, because like the the the most to 212 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: me visually evocative answer is the one that our example 213 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: is the thing that we said in the show about 214 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: like a walnut looks like a brain. I think it's 215 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: jin sing root that looks kind of like a man 216 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: or a person when you pull it out of the 217 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: which sort of feeds into the idea that like jin 218 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: sing root is good for the whole body. So anyway, 219 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: I was another thing that was like not expecting that 220 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: to come up in this particular treatise, but there it 221 00:14:54,400 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: is combined with optics. So yeah, eat garlic is the lesson. 222 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: I eat garlic. I'm in favor of that, me too. 223 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: I have I have some friends who cannot eat garlic 224 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: anymore because of some like dietary issues and restrictions. Um, 225 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: just the garlic is not good for their bodies, and 226 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: that is very sad. It's very I do not know 227 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: anyone who has had to cut garlic out of their 228 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: diets and is happy about it. No, no, well, I mean, 229 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure, I know there are people out there who 230 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: don't like garlic. I love it. I don't know that. 231 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know what to do with that. 232 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like that person that you know triples 233 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: the recipe at every opportunity. So mm hmm, I don't. 234 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell those people, but it 235 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: will prevent your heartwork. Yeah. I went to have a 236 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: little rabbit hole of trying to figure out exactly when 237 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: people figured out what about her worm, and a very 238 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: longer rabbit hole to try to figure out, like, okay, 239 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: is their heartworm in the UK? And at first I 240 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: found very like some contradictory stuff about that, because there 241 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: were people who were conclusively like there is no heartworm 242 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: in the UK, and animals in the UK that developed 243 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: heartworm contracted it somewhere else, right and then came to 244 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: the UK for whatever reason. But like then, there have 245 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: been in the last few decades reports of actual heartworm 246 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: transmission in the UK. And that does seem to be 247 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: tied to the climate, like how whether the parasites can 248 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: survive long enough in the mosquitoes to infect anything, right, 249 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: you know, that's one of those things that when we 250 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: started having pets, we've suddenly had to think about a lot. 251 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: Although our cats never ever go out right, right, so 252 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: we don't tend to do heartworm preventative with them because, 253 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: like my understanding is that it doesn't transmit to cats 254 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: for hal and to begin with, and normally, like a 255 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: mosquito would have had to have bitten an infected dog 256 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: and then a cat. Our cats aren't around dogs and 257 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: they don't ever go out, So yeah, they just lived 258 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: their spoiled, spoiled lives on our laps. That is what 259 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: our cats do. Also, it's the best um And yeah, 260 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: I remember, I guess it was when I was living 261 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: in North Carolina and I got cats of my own 262 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: that I was responsible for caring for for the first time, 263 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: and I did start out doing heartworm prevention with them, 264 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: but that then got into the same thing of like 265 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: what is the risk of heartworm versus the risk of 266 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: this medication is it actually necessary for the cats? And 267 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: now living in Massachusetts, like the prevalence of heartworm here 268 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: is in general less because of climate differences, but again 269 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: that that's also shifting because of because of climate becoming warmer. Yeah, 270 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: I remember having a long discussion about it with my 271 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: veterinarian uh, and her initial reaction, and this is some 272 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: years ago, was like, well, you know, in case an 273 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: animal gets out. But then as we progress through having 274 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: cats and she realized that I'm essentially the equivalent of 275 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: a helicopter mom to my cat, she was like, Oh, 276 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: that's not going to happen. You don't really need to 277 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: be doing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, kitties and puppies 278 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: but not humans. Yeah, otherwise we would all be on 279 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: heartworm prevention. Yeah. And I will say I'm not I'm 280 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: not offering advice about what to do with your own 281 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: pets about heartworm prevention. Discussed that with your vet because 282 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: I am not one, uh, nor nor am I a 283 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: heart surgeon. What I thought you were doing that as 284 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: like a correspondence. So anyway, I'm glad I got to 285 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: spend a little time we're getting a weird old medical 286 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: treatise for this show, because I do enjoy doing that 287 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: and hearing reading the things that are very confidently wrong, 288 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: in this case cut many confidently wrong things. So again, 289 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: it's Friday. Happy Friday everyone. We hope whatever is happening 290 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: on your weekend is great. If you are not off 291 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: this weekend. If it's not your weekend's I hope your 292 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: work or whatever else is going on in your life, 293 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: it's going okay. We will be back with a classic 294 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: episode tomorrow and then something brand new on Monday. Stuff 295 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: you Missed in History Class is a production of I 296 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 297 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 298 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.