Speaker 1: You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2: Was not con god most fancier.
Speaker 3: When I'm asked why I love Mexico and why we
Speaker 3: return every year for nearly thirty years, the answer is
Speaker 3: the culture, cities, food, the seas, the mountains, the history.
Speaker 3: But what I really love most are the people. And
Speaker 3: Frida Escobedo is one of those people. We met in
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. She had just won the international competition to
Speaker 3: design the Serpentine Gallery's annual summer pavilion. Richard was on
Speaker 3: the jury. Her building brought the refined spirit of Mexico
Speaker 3: to Hyde Park. Richard and I gave a fabulous party
Speaker 3: celebrating this bright and beautiful young architect not long after
Speaker 3: living in Mexico for four months. In a difficult time,
Speaker 3: Frieda made the impossible possible with her care and concern
Speaker 3: for us both. In the years since, Frida has become
Speaker 3: one of the world's great architects. Along with other projects,
Speaker 3: she's reimagining the contemporary and modern galleries at New York's
Speaker 3: Metropolitan Museum of Art, the first woman architect to be appointed.
Speaker 3: Today in the River Cafe, we're making deep Fried zucchini flowers.
Speaker 3: Their stunning colors remind me of our beautiful Mexico, and
Speaker 3: when she's not with me, the zucchini flowers remind me
Speaker 3: of frieda.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 4: Really, it's so nice to be with you again.
Speaker 3: Nice to have you here. We have lots to talk
Speaker 3: about it. But the first thing, why don't we read
Speaker 3: the recipe? So people listening to you can learn how
Speaker 3: to make zucchini flowers.
Speaker 5: Okay, deep fried zucchini flowers. So for six people. Recipe
Speaker 5: quantity of batter twenty four zucchini flowers, seven hundred and
Speaker 5: fifty million liters, some flower oil and sea salt, and
Speaker 5: the recipes. Make the batter and let it rest for
Speaker 5: thirty minutes. And to prepare the flowers, remove the stamens
Speaker 5: from the center and the green sepals from.
Speaker 4: The base of each flower. Keep the stalks attached.
Speaker 5: Heat the oil until hot about one hundred and eighty
Speaker 5: centigrees in a deep pan, and dip the flowers, holding
Speaker 5: them by the stalks, into the batter. Top off any
Speaker 5: excess batter on the side of the bowl, and place
Speaker 5: them one at a time into the hot oil. Turn
Speaker 5: the flowers over in the oil as they become golden.
Speaker 5: Remove the flowers when crisp and drain on the kitchen paper,
Speaker 5: Scatter with sea salt, and eat immediately.
Speaker 2: Do you like them? I love them and I had
Speaker 2: Would you if you ever cooked them? Would you ever
Speaker 2: have a recipe? And here they are, there's the zucchini flowers.
Speaker 3: An Archie has just brought them in the chef at
Speaker 3: the River Cafe. Would you like to talk about the
Speaker 3: zucchini flowers that you just made?
Speaker 2: Yes? So these are zucchini flowers.
Speaker 6: They're part of the Fritto Misto dish today, so they're
Speaker 6: being served alongside scallops, cuttlefish, zucchini batons, and sage and lemon.
Speaker 6: These are I think so special because something you can
Speaker 6: only get the summer, and to each one zucchini, it's
Speaker 6: one flower, so you have to take real care when
Speaker 6: you're prepping them to keep the shape when you're cooking
Speaker 6: them as well.
Speaker 2: Ours are quite delicate.
Speaker 3: When you make the batter as light as this, I
Speaker 3: like to always be able to see the zucchini through it.
Speaker 3: We always have them in Tuscany when we're there in
Speaker 3: the summer, and one of the things I really like
Speaker 3: about them is everybody can make them.
Speaker 6: Once they're picked away from the zucchini itself. They don't
Speaker 6: last very long, so they're always going to be really,
Speaker 6: really fresh.
Speaker 2: And is there a Mexican version.
Speaker 5: Yes, actually it's one of my favorite foods in Mexico,
Speaker 5: and we have them in casari, yes, that's right, or
Speaker 5: you can have them with eggs or in soups. And
Speaker 5: what I like it is that it's also very fragile,
Speaker 5: so I only have them for a day, so you
Speaker 5: have to be like eating them right away, and the
Speaker 5: calories are pretty yeah.
Speaker 2: Good, thank you, pleasure enjoy.
Speaker 3: So let's talk about your early days. Tell me more
Speaker 3: about your family.
Speaker 5: I have two sisters, and I grew up in Mexico City.
Speaker 5: I was living there for my first five years, and
Speaker 5: then the earthquake happened and my parents got divorced at
Speaker 5: the same time, so there were two earthquakes in my life.
Speaker 5: And then they moved to very close neighborhoods to each
Speaker 5: other so they could still see me all the time,
Speaker 5: both of them.
Speaker 3: And both your parents were your father was my dad
Speaker 3: is a doctor. There is a doctor, yes, and.
Speaker 5: Your mother, my mom is a sociologist.
Speaker 2: So tell me.
Speaker 3: About food in your household, would you sit down to
Speaker 3: dinner altogether? Did you have a cook? Tell me about
Speaker 3: what life was like food wise in their house.
Speaker 5: We did have a cook and someone who was helping
Speaker 5: in the house all of the time. But my dad
Speaker 5: was also very much into cooking, and he makes like
Speaker 5: these simple but really delicious recipes, especially.
Speaker 4: Good with Mexican food.
Speaker 5: He's great with soups and stews.
Speaker 4: So it's a kind of a lighter version of molet.
Speaker 5: It's more like a soup and it has vegetables and
Speaker 5: meat in its.
Speaker 2: Likely describe is to people who don't know.
Speaker 5: Molay is this very intricate, very elaborate paste that is
Speaker 5: made out of chilis, spices, chocolate, banana, and it changes
Speaker 5: with every family and the type of region that you
Speaker 5: have it in Mexico, so it can be a darker chocolate,
Speaker 5: or it can be made out of squash seeds, so
Speaker 5: it can be green or yellow depending on the nuts
Speaker 5: or the spices that you use.
Speaker 4: So it's sort of like a verst and of courie.
Speaker 2: And then you always have mode in the French.
Speaker 5: Yes, I think it's a it's a very typical staple
Speaker 5: in Mexican homehouse and yes, And you can make with chicken,
Speaker 5: and you can have it with rice, you can have
Speaker 5: it with eggs. You can have it with cassadillas or
Speaker 5: infri coladas, which is basically just tortilla with beans inside.
Speaker 3: Would your father cooked during the week it would it
Speaker 3: be something special he would do.
Speaker 5: It would be mostly on the weekends, but he would
Speaker 5: also like to make breakfast.
Speaker 4: Or dinner sometimes. And one of my.
Speaker 5: Favorite dishes from him is to rikas what's which is
Speaker 5: like the leftover bread that you have from.
Speaker 4: The week that is a little bit hard.
Speaker 5: You would put it on an egg butter with vanilla
Speaker 5: and cinnamon, a French.
Speaker 4: Tas French toast.
Speaker 5: I think it's like a Spanish version of that. And
Speaker 5: then instead of using powdered sugar, you would use this
Speaker 5: raw sugar that comes in like this cone.
Speaker 4: We call it biloon cio.
Speaker 5: I don't know the exact translation in English, but you
Speaker 5: will melt the biloonsiu with a little bit of like
Speaker 5: lemon juice and the lemon how do you call the
Speaker 5: zest the lemon sest? Yes, and then you just create
Speaker 5: the syrup.
Speaker 2: So on the weekends.
Speaker 3: If cooking was something your father did love to do,
Speaker 3: would he engage you and your sisters in the cookaine.
Speaker 5: Yes, he would love to have me in the kitchen,
Speaker 5: and he would just tell me these recipes actually very
Speaker 5: simple ones, most of them coming from my grandmother.
Speaker 3: I remember you talked about a pestle and mortar that
Speaker 3: you have. Yes, just someone that was from your grandmother
Speaker 3: to your father to you tell me about that.
Speaker 5: Yes, that was a very special gift I received, and
Speaker 5: I had to fight for it a little bit with
Speaker 5: my dad because it's like in every Mexican house you
Speaker 5: have this volcanic rock mortar. It's called mart and you
Speaker 5: make everything in that from salsas to grindening spices or
Speaker 5: just like grinding garlic for some other recipes, and it's
Speaker 5: passed on from generation to generation. And I think this
Speaker 5: is a very old one. It's very smooth on the inside,
Speaker 5: and my father had it when my grandmother passed away.
Speaker 5: So when I moved into my first apartment, I was
Speaker 5: asking my dad to give it to me, and he
Speaker 5: would say, like, not yet. And by the time I
Speaker 5: returned from my master's degree, I think I was ready
Speaker 5: to receive the mokat if you finally gave it to me.
Speaker 2: Would your parents take you to restaurants.
Speaker 4: Yes, not too often.
Speaker 5: It was not as common as nowadays, not where people
Speaker 5: eat out all the time. I remember it being like
Speaker 5: once a week at most. But what I remember is
Speaker 5: my mother used to enjoy a lot having desserts outside. Yes, yes,
Speaker 5: And she's really good at making desserts. And so one
Speaker 5: of my favorite things was on a rainy day, she
Speaker 5: would just tell me, like, would you like to go
Speaker 5: get some cake and tea, and we would drive to Polanco,
Speaker 5: which was actually very far away from where we lived.
Speaker 5: I think she just enjoyed like the time and the
Speaker 5: car and just talking to me and being able to
Speaker 5: be on one single space.
Speaker 2: What did your mother do?
Speaker 5: She was starting to work at you and women at
Speaker 5: the time. And we would go to this place in Polanco,
Speaker 5: which is in a little passage one of these like
Speaker 5: pedestrian streets inside one of the older buildings, and we
Speaker 5: would have tart or cake or some chocolate and tea.
Speaker 5: And I thought it was such a treat to have
Speaker 5: this in the middle of the week and then just
Speaker 5: go back and you know, like it seemed like a
Speaker 5: little celebration, And it was a very intimate time between
Speaker 5: her and me because it was just like something she
Speaker 5: and I would do, like no one else was in
Speaker 5: that bubble, so it felt really special.
Speaker 3: Sounds like food was important in your home, it was
Speaker 3: important to your parents. And then when you went to university,
Speaker 3: how did you cope with not having those meals?
Speaker 2: Did you go home a lot? Did you eat out
Speaker 2: with other students? Did you cook by yourself?
Speaker 5: I have to say that when I was a small child,
Speaker 5: I ate everything, like everything that was presented to me
Speaker 5: I would eat. But then I had like this short
Speaker 5: period as a teenager where I wasn't even like liking
Speaker 5: food too much, and I think it was more like
Speaker 5: building my personality because it didn't last too long, and
Speaker 5: as soon as I moved out of my parents' house,
Speaker 5: I needed to start cooking by myself. So at the beginning,
Speaker 5: I was like, I don't know how to cook anything,
Speaker 5: and it was almost like an a statement, no, like I'm.
Speaker 4: Against that, yeah, because of course my dad was.
Speaker 5: Good at that, my mom was good at that, and
Speaker 5: I was like, I'm not good to be doing this.
Speaker 5: But then it was really silly because of course I
Speaker 5: enjoyed food so much, so I just started cooking no
Speaker 5: with my boyfriend at a time or with friends. They
Speaker 5: would come over and we started making like small simple dishes,
Speaker 5: and then slowly we became like more elaborate and just
Speaker 5: enjoyed having time spending on the kitchen.
Speaker 3: The River Cafe cafe, steps away from our restaurant, is
Speaker 3: now open. In the morning an Italian breakfast with cornetti,
Speaker 3: ciambella and crostada from our pastry kitchen. In the afternoon,
Speaker 3: ice creamed coups in River Cafe. Classic desserts come in
Speaker 3: the evening for cocktails with our resident pianists in the bar.
Speaker 3: No need to book see you here.
Speaker 2: We went to the University of Mexico. When you decide
Speaker 2: to study.
Speaker 3: Architecture, yes, because you didn't go thinking you were going
Speaker 3: to be an architecture No.
Speaker 5: I was very decisive as a teenager, and I knew
Speaker 5: that I wanted to do something with art or design
Speaker 5: something with my hands. But it was just like until
Speaker 5: a few days before they closed the exams that I
Speaker 5: made up my mind.
Speaker 3: You were no longer in a domestic situation with your family,
Speaker 3: and so you lived in an apartment and.
Speaker 5: It was actually until I graduated that I moved to
Speaker 5: my own apartment. When you're studying architecture. That's a blessing
Speaker 5: because it's like very long hours and other ways you
Speaker 5: just don't take care of yourself at all, no, like
Speaker 5: it's just like working.
Speaker 3: But then the big change must have been when you
Speaker 3: went to Harvard, and so what was that like to
Speaker 3: go from Mexico to in food terms, at Cambridge, it.
Speaker 5: Was quite a shock because of course, like there was
Speaker 5: again this culture of spending very very long hours looking
Speaker 5: on your thesis or whatever you were supposed to be
Speaker 5: doing at the time. Because I had a very generous
Speaker 5: scholarship to have a small apartment for myself, I didn't
Speaker 5: have to share, which was a blessing for me because
Speaker 5: I could really.
Speaker 4: Manage my time.
Speaker 5: And I had a small kitchen and a group of
Speaker 5: friends who liked to cook, and we would have the mescal,
Speaker 5: which is a mescale Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Okay, and Tuesday at night or.
Speaker 4: Tuesday at night Tuesday.
Speaker 5: And we were supposed to cook for each other, So
Speaker 5: we would go around each other houses and we would
Speaker 5: bring ingredients sometimes from our trips to Mexico, and we
Speaker 5: would either you know, like small old tortillas or mallet,
Speaker 5: or we would be doing like the small dishes and
Speaker 5: then we wouldn't invite all the friends that were not
Speaker 5: Mexican also, and that kind of started a nice tradition
Speaker 5: of being able to think of yourself and what you needed,
Speaker 5: how to bring people that were close to you as
Speaker 5: a support system, because it's really heavy when you're starting,
Speaker 5: like you spend all of this time and there's a
Speaker 5: lot of pressure. It's very competitive, so it's a good
Speaker 5: reminder that you also have a support system and people
Speaker 5: that are just there to be with you and that
Speaker 5: become friends for a lifetime.
Speaker 2: Did you go to restaurants? So when you were in Boston,
Speaker 2: did you go out?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Sometimes we usually did, like Chinese or the less expensive
Speaker 5: versions of feeding out. It was also nice to try
Speaker 5: new things and that was actually one of the few
Speaker 5: ways which you could start getting to know Boston and
Speaker 5: not just Cambridge. Otherwise you just stay on campus and
Speaker 5: you basically never leave school. So for me, it was
Speaker 5: like a little window to what the city of Boston
Speaker 5: was not like hutting oysters were a lobster.
Speaker 3: That was a treat, very big portions. Did you ever
Speaker 3: go to Mexican restaurant when you were in Boston? I
Speaker 3: tried once and it was so that was such a
Speaker 3: revelation for us when we went to Mexico that you.
Speaker 2: Realized that the food that you had.
Speaker 3: I didn't even go near it in Europe, but even
Speaker 3: in the United States we thought it was heavy. You
Speaker 3: get these big plates of six different different ingredients, different
Speaker 3: ways of cooking them, and it just was so heavy.
Speaker 3: And then we went to Mexico and as I said,
Speaker 3: it was a revelation. It was a piece of beautiful
Speaker 3: fish with as you described as salsa made of tomato
Speaker 3: and onion and garlic and could use quite a lot
Speaker 3: of chilantro. Yeah, and we haven't talked about guacamole, and
Speaker 3: that it was so it was so delicate, and we
Speaker 3: find and I wonder why well Mexican food didn't travel well,
Speaker 3: you know, and whether it became a simple I think
Speaker 3: now it's better. There are more really good restaurants in
Speaker 3: New York, and there's a great restaurant here in London
Speaker 3: doing Mexican food, and again the focus on ingredients, you know,
Speaker 3: but it is it is a very different, different version
Speaker 3: of what you the Mexican do you think it is?
Speaker 5: And also because Mexican food is so different from bridging
Speaker 5: to region, then it's hard to tell, like what is
Speaker 5: Mexican food.
Speaker 4: No, overall, you have the food from the coast, which is.
Speaker 5: Like these grilled fish and just oysters, but also shrimp,
Speaker 5: and it's very simple, very few ingredients, very simple recipes.
Speaker 5: And then you have the more elaborate we see No
Speaker 5: Puebla and elba Hillo with these moorless and salsa that
Speaker 5: are almost by roque and it's it's making.
Speaker 4: And then Yukata, when you have like the pooled pork.
Speaker 2: Is there a region that you particularly like.
Speaker 4: I love Yukata.
Speaker 5: I think it's just like so tasty and it feels
Speaker 5: like a comfort food. Sopa the lima, which is like
Speaker 5: the chicken broth with lima, which is like these sweet lime.
Speaker 5: I just feel like that is like food for the soul.
Speaker 5: Every time you have like a something bad happened to you,
Speaker 5: you go and have soap by the lima and it
Speaker 5: makes better everything.
Speaker 3: And you started very quickly, didn't you with your own office.
Speaker 3: You didn't work for anyone else. No, I've never worked
Speaker 3: for anyone. I have no idea how a restaurant runs,
Speaker 3: because I've only done it our way.
Speaker 2: Did you ever bring food into your work life?
Speaker 5: Yes, sometimes we would go to my place and we
Speaker 5: would do like these cooking parties and we would cook together.
Speaker 5: But it was when we were like just five or four.
Speaker 5: Now it's a little bit more difficult, but it's a
Speaker 5: nice tradition. I think it brings the team together and
Speaker 5: then you really see the personalities and actually you see
Speaker 5: how they collaborate also in the studio.
Speaker 3: Okay, So as an architect, when you're designing, do you
Speaker 3: think about public space and food where people will eat,
Speaker 3: what they'll look at while they're eating, Will they have
Speaker 3: a view? Will they kitchen be visible? Have you ever
Speaker 3: designed a restaurant?
Speaker 4: Yes, I am, I am right now?
Speaker 2: Are you whereas it?
Speaker 5: It's going to be in the US, and it's going
Speaker 5: to be for a dear friend. I'm very happy working
Speaker 5: with her.
Speaker 2: Tell us about her.
Speaker 5: She has like a very strong personality. She's very charming
Speaker 5: and she just like walks into the room and everyone turns.
Speaker 4: Around because she's there.
Speaker 5: And I think she has a very magnetic personality. In
Speaker 5: her restaurant is Contra March Well one of them. She
Speaker 5: has many, but that's probably the most famous one, and
Speaker 5: I think it has become like.
Speaker 4: This icon in Mexico City.
Speaker 5: Everyone knows Contra Maage and part of the success is
Speaker 5: not just the food, which is amazing, but also how
Speaker 5: it becomes.
Speaker 4: It became.
Speaker 5: Like a gathering space. It's an epicenter for culture and
Speaker 5: people watching, and everyone wants to go there to CMB scene.
Speaker 3: We had this routine in Mexico when Richard was in
Speaker 3: the hospital. I would have kind of breakfast with my
Speaker 3: friend family. They were always late, you know. I'd love
Speaker 3: the Mexican breakfast at about ten maybe in the morning,
Speaker 3: ten thirty and then a really delicious breakfast at Nido
Speaker 3: at Karen, and then I would go to the hospital
Speaker 3: and then we would meet at about four in the afternoon,
Speaker 3: very often at Contramar, because everybody came to visit me
Speaker 3: wanted to go to Contomar, and I loved going. It's
Speaker 3: a very dramatic space, dramatic and democratic as well. You know,
Speaker 3: it just feels like you're all in there's no good table,
Speaker 3: You're all in one big space. You see the kitchen,
Speaker 3: and then you would have a very late lunch and
Speaker 3: then I'd go back to the hospital and then a
Speaker 3: piece of fruit or something very simple for dinner. There
Speaker 3: was no that was it, and I just thought it
Speaker 3: was a great way of eating, you know, to have
Speaker 3: that you know, not big heavy dinner before you go
Speaker 3: to bed.
Speaker 4: And you're right like the a theist democratic space.
Speaker 5: It's just like a field condition of tables and I
Speaker 5: think I've only seen or like that at Contra Mart,
Speaker 5: but also at the Met Cafe, the staff cafet. It
Speaker 5: was a big surprise, and I love that because it's
Speaker 5: like the canteen for all the employees and everyone goes
Speaker 5: to have lunch there and it's really special.
Speaker 2: And the director, yes, yes, curators.
Speaker 5: The curators, the people from maintenance, we that we we
Speaker 5: spent a year at the Met with our offices there,
Speaker 5: so we would go down and have lunch there and
Speaker 5: you would see these mix of people. Some of them
Speaker 5: would bring their own foods, some people would buy food there,
Speaker 5: and it was just like a place where you can
Speaker 5: encounter everyone and actually like really interesting conversations happened there.
Speaker 5: So it was a working launch, but in a very
Speaker 5: informal setting, which I feel.
Speaker 4: Like it's very unusual for Americans.
Speaker 5: You know, like usually they're very hard working and they're
Speaker 5: like very pragmatic, So having these moments of just like
Speaker 5: casual conversations about work were really special and SPONTANEU.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: If you like listening to Ruthie's Table for would you
Speaker 3: please make sure to rate and review the podcast on
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Speaker 3: your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Thank you. How do you find New York for food?
Speaker 4: It's amazing.
Speaker 5: I like that It's so diverse and you can have
Speaker 5: food from every country really authentic, so you can have
Speaker 5: great Mexican, great Indian food, Chinese, Japanese everything.
Speaker 2: Are you there much? Are you in New York question?
Speaker 4: I'm there every month.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 2: And are you're talking there or do not have time
Speaker 2: to cook?
Speaker 5: No? I also cook like I find like that's my
Speaker 5: way of relaxing. And I come back from work because
Speaker 5: lunch is so short in America. Then I'm able to
Speaker 5: come back home and then just do something simple and
Speaker 5: I feel like I'm taking care of myself again. And
Speaker 5: I live in Chelsea.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nice. So there's good markets there?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, my son used to live in Chelsea
Speaker 3: and we use the Chelsea Market and then the wonderful
Speaker 3: one is the Union Square exactly.
Speaker 4: That's my favorite.
Speaker 2: Isn't a great market? It is love that.
Speaker 3: I thought it was very beautiful what you said about
Speaker 3: a book that I also loved and also a writer
Speaker 3: that I admire, Joe Didion's Blue, Blue, Blue Lights, Blue Nights.
Speaker 3: And you said, there's a quote from you saying that
Speaker 3: about it's a book about loss, but also being a woman,
Speaker 3: being a mother or not being able to be a mother,
Speaker 3: about aging and all things that fascinate and terrify me
Speaker 3: at the moment. And it's a book about utter acceptance.
Speaker 3: And then you talk about your sister's books, and so
Speaker 3: do you think we could just talk for a moment
Speaker 3: about women and writing and women and architecture.
Speaker 5: A few months later, after I finished reading for the
Speaker 5: second time Blue Knights, my sister finished her first book
Speaker 5: and it's a series of poems and it's talking about
Speaker 5: the female body and the female body rhythm, and it
Speaker 5: has to do with all of the things that happen,
Speaker 5: know in cycles, And I think it's really special because
Speaker 5: of course, as women, we know that we're always changing,
Speaker 5: but they're like these constant flows, so we go back
Speaker 5: and forth and we understand each other in such rhythms.
Speaker 5: But some of these rhythms, I think are longer and
Speaker 5: for me to see someone who's younger than me explaining
Speaker 5: all of these processes, not like the idea of becoming
Speaker 5: a woman, of becoming of fertile age, or becoming a
Speaker 5: woman in menopause or aging, and the whole idea of
Speaker 5: how people experience manhood from outside but also from the
Speaker 5: inside became really like an important revelation. No for someone
Speaker 5: that I saw from being a baby to now expressing
Speaker 5: all of these very powerful ideas became almost liberating because
Speaker 5: I couldn't explain them to myself so well as she
Speaker 5: did with her poetry.
Speaker 3: You know, we're so excited that you're doing the Metropolitan Museum.
Speaker 3: It meant a lot, I think, as as both a
Speaker 3: confidence of the established museum to commission this to a
Speaker 3: relatively young woman. First of all, how do you see it?
Speaker 3: And also what are the challenges that you face in
Speaker 3: that Well.
Speaker 5: It's an incredible opportunity, of course, and I think it's
Speaker 5: almost a reminder that everything big that has happened in
Speaker 5: my career felt a little bit like that now. I
Speaker 5: remember the first time that I did a public commission.
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe it. Not like I'm doing this on
Speaker 4: my own.
Speaker 5: I was working almost by myself in my kitchen, and
Speaker 5: then this commission happened, and then that led to the
Speaker 5: Serpentine Pavilion, for example, which I couldn't believe, No, like
Speaker 5: I was the youngest at the time to be doing
Speaker 5: that that commission. And then now we get the commission
Speaker 5: for the Metropolitan Museum, and it feels a little bit
Speaker 5: like that. I No, I felt like, am I up
Speaker 5: to the task? Am I too young? I've never done
Speaker 5: a museum like that before. But this is just a
Speaker 5: series of first times, no like one after the other,
Speaker 5: and fortunately like each one of them has led to
Speaker 5: a new adventure. So I've been thinking that I just
Speaker 5: want to get very good at doing things for the
Speaker 5: first time.
Speaker 2: What is the what is the brief?
Speaker 5: We're commissioned to do the renovation for the Modern and
Speaker 5: Contemporary wing, And of course the challenge is that it's
Speaker 5: an encyclopedic museum and you have like all the history
Speaker 5: of humankind condensed into one single building, you know, with
Speaker 5: many different ways of seeing human culture and approaching it.
Speaker 5: But contemporary culture is growing and extending, and it's something
Speaker 5: that is open ended. But it's also what's so fascinating
Speaker 5: to me because it's not something that has been closed
Speaker 5: as a moment in history. It's something that continues to evolve.
Speaker 5: So that was kind of like the departure point, something
Speaker 5: that would be flexible and open to interpretation, and that
Speaker 5: would allow for new publics to come in. And that
Speaker 5: was in the constant process of becoming. And there's this
Speaker 5: beautiful moment in the Metropolitan Museum facade that Cosue Palma,
Speaker 5: someone who's working in the project, pointed out very early
Speaker 5: on during the competition, to me, and it's this detail
Speaker 5: of an unfinished piece in the facade, and it's right there.
Speaker 4: A few people notice it.
Speaker 3: So you come up the steps and it's not the
Speaker 3: right it's on the cornices, on the top of the
Speaker 3: curs and you can see like the these raw blocks of.
Speaker 5: Stone that are uncarved, and it's strange. And some people say, like, well,
Speaker 5: they ran out of money at the time, they didn't
Speaker 5: finish it. But to me, it's one of the most
Speaker 5: beautiful and interesting moments because it's this idea that this
Speaker 5: is the full potential. This is in the project and
Speaker 5: on the process of being inscripted. It hasn't been yet,
Speaker 5: but someone might tell the story in the future. And
Speaker 5: I think that was the most inspiring thing, and that's
Speaker 5: what we want to do, not like something that becomes
Speaker 5: not just a container, but also a place where people
Speaker 5: can gather and express themselves and to see themselves reflected
Speaker 5: in the art that they're going to see, and therefore
Speaker 5: to continue to tell other stories that have not been
Speaker 5: inscripted yet in that space.
Speaker 3: Where actually is the I'm trying to think where that
Speaker 3: way is? So it's the hot you go straight through,
Speaker 3: don't you.
Speaker 5: Yes, it's on the southwest corner of the museum.
Speaker 2: And where at stage are you in now?
Speaker 5: We just finished concept and we're starting schematic design, so
Speaker 5: we still have a few more years ago and the
Speaker 5: completion is expected to happen in twenty thirty.
Speaker 3: And I look at your work and I see the
Speaker 3: way you've progressed. Have seen your work and your office.
Speaker 3: You have office in Mexico, and you're working in New York,
Speaker 3: and you're working now hopefully in Paris, and I hope
Speaker 3: in London. I'm jealous. Now I want to do a
Speaker 3: restaurant with you. Well, then, but that would be the
Speaker 3: incentive to do another restaurant.
Speaker 2: But do you feel that you're growing slowly?
Speaker 3: Or in that way, or do you I think so
Speaker 3: to conquer the world in a big way too.
Speaker 4: Not in a big way.
Speaker 5: I think we're similar in that I never worked for anyone.
Speaker 5: So it's this combination between being in my case being
Speaker 5: a little bit stubborn, you know, like saying like I
Speaker 5: can do this, and of course the easier path would
Speaker 5: be to follow someone's steps, and it's non arrogant to
Speaker 5: say like, I don't want to follow someone, because you're
Speaker 5: at the same time admiring so many people no and
Speaker 5: just looking.
Speaker 4: Up to them.
Speaker 5: But it's just like trying to do it yourself, and
Speaker 5: it's more painful sometimes and it's slower, and you need
Speaker 5: to rely a lot on the people that are working
Speaker 5: with you. But I enjoy that very much because it's
Speaker 5: almost a way of building an extended family because you
Speaker 5: work so much time with them, you share your hopes
Speaker 5: and dreams with them, and you have to really trust
Speaker 5: them because that's all you've got, you know, like you
Speaker 5: can lose everything, and then you lose everything and you
Speaker 5: start over again. So it starts very very small. I
Speaker 5: still consider my office to be very small.
Speaker 4: We're eleven in.
Speaker 5: New York and nineteen in Mexico City, something like that.
Speaker 5: The numbers fluctuate a little bit, but I still consider
Speaker 5: it to be a small studio and I know all
Speaker 5: of them. I try to spend time as much as
Speaker 5: I can with them, and it has been a matter
Speaker 5: of also explaining to them, like how we want to grow.
Speaker 5: Sometimes they will come to me and say like, how.
Speaker 4: Do you want to grow? Where are you heading?
Speaker 5: Like these things that are happening so fast, like the
Speaker 5: met or these new competitions.
Speaker 4: How do you want to handle them?
Speaker 5: And to me, it's the idea of growing is maturing, no,
Speaker 5: rather than being bigger and getting bigger projects, is like
Speaker 5: better projects, better clients. And then finally, the ultimate goal
Speaker 5: would be to have more time on each project and
Speaker 5: then you can really spend some time thinking about something.
Speaker 5: And I know that architecture is really slow, but I
Speaker 5: want to have even more time, and so I want
Speaker 5: to go even slower. That would be the ultimate goal.
Speaker 3: I always ask if food is something that connects you
Speaker 3: to your family, is something you do with your parents,
Speaker 3: that you explore with friends or with lovers, or travel
Speaker 3: or work the people you work. It's also comfort and
Speaker 3: I think in times of my own experience with certain
Speaker 3: foods that I when I needed comfort, that I would
Speaker 3: associate with comfort.
Speaker 2: What would be your comfort food?
Speaker 5: My comfort food would be my father Striquez, And that
Speaker 5: dish from my dad is to me like the thing
Speaker 5: that brings me back to my feet and makes me remind.
Speaker 4: Myself that everything will be all right.
Speaker 5: And the other one is my mom's start at I
Speaker 5: and associate that with a more celebratory aspect of life.
Speaker 5: So one is about comfort and the other one is
Speaker 5: about like the joys of life.
Speaker 4: And we usually have.
Speaker 5: It for birthdays or for special occasions or I feel
Speaker 5: also when she's feeling a little bit down, she would
Speaker 5: cook at tatatan and then everything is just like sweet
Speaker 5: and crisp.
Speaker 2: Again. Yeah, I love Inflida.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you so much, really
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
Speaker 1: with montclaird