1 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:04,519 Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 2: I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading The Bengals Booth Podcast. 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 2: The this is what you need, I'll give you what 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: you need. Addition, as I discussed what the Bengals need 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: to do to reclaim the AFC North and ultimately return 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 2: to the Super Bowl with Robert Weintraub, who covers the 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: Bengals for Cincinnati Magazine and one of the best NFL 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: analytics websites ftnfantasy dot com. The Bengals Booth Podcast is 9 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: brought to you by Pai Core, proud to be the 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 2: to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 2: healthcare provider. 15 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: Of the Bengals. 16 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: Now here's a quick reminder that you can have the 17 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: latest edition of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet, 18 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: or computer by subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. It's 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 2: the greatest thing since the Best Photos of twenty twenty three. 20 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: At the top ofthe Bengals dot com home page, one 21 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: of the categories you can click is Photos, which connects 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: you to a wide variety of photo galleries. If you 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 2: haven't done so already, I encourage you to check out 24 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: the one titled best of twenty twenty three season. Team 25 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: photographer Ryan Meyer has selected the top photos he took 26 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: during the past season, and his work is amazing. Some 27 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: of my favorites include Joe Burrow on one knee firing 28 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: an imaginary arrow into the sky, the upper torso of 29 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: Trey Hendrickson emerging from smoke to take the field before 30 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 2: a game, and Cam Taylor Britt dancing in the locker 31 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: room after a Bengals victory. There are more than two 32 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: hundred photos in all, and Ryan's work is spectacular. Be 33 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: sure to check out the best foot Photos of twenty 34 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: twenty three. Now time to get to this week's guest. 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: Robert Weintraub covers the Bengals for Cincinnati Magazine and wrote 36 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: the Bengals season preview chapter for this year's edition of 37 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: the FTN Football Almanac formerly known as The Football Outsiders Almanac. 38 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: Robert writes about the team honestly and critically, but it's 39 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: worth pointing out that he is a diehard Bengals fan. 40 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: Robert you wrote about the roller coaster ride that was 41 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: this past season on a weekly basis for Cincinnati Magazine. 42 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: This is a Bengals podcast. So let's start with the positives. 43 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: What were they in your view this year? 44 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 3: There were any I'm trying to remember off the top 45 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 3: of my head if there were any. Yeah, you know, obviously, 46 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 3: it started on such a funk with Joe's injury in 47 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 3: training camp and then sort of seemed to have all 48 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 3: these hairpin turns of optimism and pepsimism sometimes. 49 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: You know, in this quarter. 50 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 3: It was such a bizarre season, and so much of 51 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: it wrapped around Joe's overall health and then of course 52 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 3: when he went out. I thought that was one of 53 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 3: the main positives, the development of Jake Browning and the 54 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 3: way the team rallied around him in a lot of ways, 55 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 3: the way they showed that they're not just a quarterback, 56 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 3: in an all pro quarterback level quarterback who could you know, 57 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 3: carry the team on his back. They had quite a 58 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 3: bit to offer there, just beyond what Joe could offer. 59 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: So I think that was one of the main developments. 60 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 3: But overall, I think you have to say it was 61 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: mostly a negative season just because of the expectations and 62 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 3: because of what we see going on, not just in 63 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 3: the Greater AFC, but in the AFC North. Anytime the 64 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 3: rest of the division makes the playoffs and you're the 65 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 3: one team excluded, even with a winning record, that that 66 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: feels bad. And you know, it felt good to see 67 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: the Browns lose their game and the Steelers lose their game. 68 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 3: In some ways, that was the old positives of the season. 69 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 3: But I think overall we just assume flush twenty twenty 70 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 3: three down the memory hole and begin a fresh in 71 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four with a healthy Joe Burro playing seventeen 72 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 3: games plus a few more hopefully in the postseason, as 73 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 3: we've gotten used to. It's hard to believe, but we've 74 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 3: gotten so used to playoff, deep, playoff runs in Cincinnati 75 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 3: that when they don't happen for whatever reason, you really 76 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 3: left with a sour taste in your mouth. And you know, 77 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 3: in some ways that's a positive too. It's just the 78 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: bar has been raised on what a successful season is 79 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 3: in Cincinnati, and that can be nothing but good. The 80 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: expectations are higher, and after so many years of really 81 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 3: low expectations in Cincinnati, the idea that a season where 82 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 3: you just missed the playoffs despite a winning record is 83 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: viewed as a really kind of a terrible disappointment overall, 84 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: kind of a good thing if you can look at 85 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 3: it from the glass half full method of looking at things. 86 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: I think that's probably how most Bengals fans would look 87 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: at it. Maybe the one other thing I would throw 88 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 2: in is that they managed to have a winning record 89 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: despite burrows injuries against statistically the most difficult schedule ever 90 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: of all time. 91 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: If you can believe it. 92 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 3: Yes, the numbers that we'd crunch at what used to 93 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 3: be Football Outsiders and is now Ftnfantasy dot Com, So 94 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 3: go to that web address for all your advanced statistical needs. 95 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 3: I'll spare you the way. 96 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: It went down in terms of the name changed, but. 97 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: Indeed it was the most difficult schedule ever played in 98 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 3: since DVOA, which is the efficiency stat that we use, 99 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: has been tabulated going back to the early eighties, So 100 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 3: that should tell you. I mean, obviously, we mentioned just 101 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 3: a minute ago that three teams in the division made 102 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 3: the playoffs, and Baltimore in particular had a historic season. 103 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 3: Playing them twice obviously was something that tipped the scales 104 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: and the difficult schedule apartment for sure. 105 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: And you know, you look back at those games. 106 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 3: Burrow was semi healthy in one and they lost by 107 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 3: three points and were ahead when he went out for 108 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 3: the season, and the other. It's not like you can 109 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: come away with those games and think that the Ravens 110 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 3: were some kind of. 111 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: Way better than the Bengals. 112 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: Obviously, if Burrow had played and been healthy in both 113 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 3: those games, you like their chances. So despite playing that 114 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 3: extremely difficult schedule all the way through, and of course 115 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 3: that included the forty nine Ers who they defeated handily, 116 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 3: and the Steelers and the Browns who had good seasons 117 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 3: dboa wise, four games there. Yeah, Bengals were obviously, you know, 118 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 3: all those games, and that just tells you, like you said, 119 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 3: they came away with a nine to eight record, they 120 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 3: lost their quarterback, they showed development in certain other areas, 121 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 3: and they had. 122 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: To play such a difficult schedule. 123 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: The only issue is, of course, those three teams in 124 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 3: the division aren't going anywhere. We'll see how that plays 125 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: out next year. But nevertheless, you have to like their 126 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,119 Speaker 3: chances going forward, assuming that Burrow was healthy. 127 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: Robert. 128 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 2: It's very interesting because in the FTN Football Almanac prior 129 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 2: to the season you wrote about the Bengals building a 130 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: team that could beat Kansas City, specifically could beat Kansas 131 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: City to get to the Super Bowl. Did that make 132 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: it harder or does that make it harder to beat Baltimore, 133 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: Cleveland and Pittsburgh. 134 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there is a bit of a taking 135 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 3: your eye off the ball that was right in front 136 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 3: of you, so to speak, in sinsais. 137 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: It's hard to blame them when you go. 138 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: To the championship game twice in a row against the 139 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 3: same team and you see that their team is obviously 140 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 3: built in a similar way with the superstar quarterback, trying 141 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 3: to get a young fleet defense that doesn't cost a 142 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 3: lot of money and fill in around that. You know, 143 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 3: from there, it made sense for them to maybe not explicitly, 144 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: but you know, implicitly try and do the same thing 145 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 3: and kind of attack what they saw against Kansas City. 146 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 3: They figured that was going to be the team they'd 147 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 3: run up against. There was obviously healthy respect, I think 148 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 3: for the other three divisional teams, but in a way, 149 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 3: they wound up at least this season, kind of building 150 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 3: a team that was a little light in the loafers, 151 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: shall we say, didn't have enough rear end perhaps for 152 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 3: the division that they're in, and I think if they 153 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 3: had to do it over again, they might have adjusted 154 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 3: the way they built certain aspects of the defense slightly. 155 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: I mean, there's only so much you can do, and 156 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 3: you have guys on the roster that you were expecting 157 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 3: to fill those roles that maybe didn't step up enough 158 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 3: or got hurt. You know, things happened in the NFL. 159 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 3: But I think there'll probably be a bit of a 160 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 3: readjustment this season or this offseason in terms of let's 161 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: go back to doing what you know Marvin Lewis always 162 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 3: did first and foremost, shall we say, which was build 163 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 3: your team to win your division first, compete against those 164 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 3: six games, and then you know, whatever happens after that 165 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 3: will take that as it comes. But I do think 166 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: they'll try and look, you know, at the Ravens and 167 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 3: the Browns a particular, and say they ran over us 168 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 3: this year. 169 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: How do we avoid that? In twenty twenty. 170 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 2: Four, Visiting with Robert Weintrauve writes about the Bengals for 171 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 2: Cincinnati Magazine. You can follow him on Twitter or x 172 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 2: if you have embraced the name change at Rob Wine 173 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 2: w E I n let's talk about the five game 174 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: stretch where Joe Burrow is healthy and the Bengals went 175 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: four and one. We're pretty dominant, and their wins over 176 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 2: San Francisco and Buffalo. I tend to think that those 177 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: were the real Bengals, But in those games where their 178 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 2: weakness is just temporarily hidden. 179 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean to a point, you know, I mean, 180 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 3: I think that's the case. Anytime you have a team 181 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 3: operating at all cylinders so to speak, or tina looks 182 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 3: really good because of what you expect. In this case, 183 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: their offense and Joe Burrow. Yeah, that's what they do. 184 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 3: I mean, that's what a great quarterback does. He masquerades 185 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 3: other elements of your team that might not be as 186 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 3: strong because the other team is so busy trying to 187 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 3: deal with what they The Bengals did so well. I mean, 188 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 3: it sounds like that's a negative. Yeah, masquerades some of 189 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 3: their some of their flaws. But that's kind of the point. 190 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, especially after Joe gets this big money, 191 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 3: there's always going to be an element of the team 192 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: that isn't one hundred percent or where you want it 193 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 3: to be. It's not a game changing at every single 194 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 3: unit on the field. That's just not possible. So you know, 195 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 3: you build to your strengths. In this case, Joe Burrow, 196 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 3: and as you saw, let's say, in the forty nine 197 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 3: ers game, you know, they dominated the game through their 198 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 3: passing attack, and because they were so effective at it, 199 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 3: that opened. 200 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: Up other areas. 201 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 3: It made their areas of quote unquote weakness, you know, 202 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 3: kind of less so because the forty nine ers were 203 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 3: chasing the game in a lot of ways, they had 204 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 3: a much better tackling game and a much better sort 205 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 3: of defensive defense against the pass in that game than 206 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 3: they ordinarily would, especially you know, in the fourth quarter 207 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 3: when they needed it. You know, the forig nine ers 208 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 3: may play those games. They did in that game, they 209 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 3: threw for a lot of yards, brought perty played very well, 210 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 3: but as you say, you didn't really think about that 211 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 3: aspect of the game because he made a couple of mistakes, 212 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 3: and he did so because he was playing in a 213 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 3: way he wasn't accustomed to, playing from behind, chasing the game, 214 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 3: chasing Joe Burrow. That's the way the Bengals want to play. 215 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: So yeah, the answer to the question is yes, but 216 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 3: that's by design. Unfortunately, of course, when your quarterback then 217 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 3: gets hurt or you know, as we saw before, those 218 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 3: truly healthy games plays in unlimited capacity. Obviously, those fulls 219 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: come to the ford not so easy to disguise, and 220 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 3: then you have problems and you have to adjust your 221 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 3: game plan and kind of seek out victories as best 222 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 3: you can. Jake Browning in a couple of those games 223 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 3: masked flaws in the same way that Burrow did, you know, 224 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 3: especially against the Vikings. 225 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: So you know, it's kind of the way. 226 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 3: Of the NFL roster building, Tawe roster building. I guess 227 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 3: he'd say, that's kind of what you have to do. 228 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 3: Play to your strength, maximize it and working around the 229 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 3: portions of your team that are not so good and 230 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 3: hope that the other team is you know, behind and 231 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: can't take advantage of what you don't do as well. 232 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: Let's talk defense. What do the analytics like DVOA tell 233 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 2: us about the Bengals defensive woes and what needs to 234 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 2: be fixed. 235 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, the analytics meet the eye test. I think you'd 236 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 3: say they played pretty poorly, especially against the run, but 237 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 3: also in a lot of areas against the past. One 238 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 3: thing that was curious was that they were actually top 239 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 3: ten against number one wide receivers in the past and 240 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 3: played well against should say they were thirteenth against number 241 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 3: one and top ten against number three receivers, thirty second 242 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 3: in the league against number two wide receivers, which shows 243 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 3: you that the depth was not there. Chido Ouzias, you know, 244 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 3: come back from injury was obviously an issue. Injuries to 245 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: cam Britt, you know, that obviously played a huge role 246 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 3: in that because the depth with effected after that and 247 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 3: just you know, the communications issues of having such a 248 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 3: young secondary played itself out in a way that other 249 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 3: teams took advantage of the matchups where they found it. 250 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 3: They were also poor against defending tight ends, extremely poor. 251 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 3: So tight ends did a number as it's happened in 252 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 3: the past against Cincinnati, and. 253 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: Their run defense was poor. 254 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 3: They'd actually had a fairly strong pass rush, especially in 255 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 3: what we call adjusted sack rate. They actually were top 256 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 3: ten better than Pittsburgh, better than Cleveland. Teams that are, 257 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 3: you know, supposed to have this all dominant pass rush. 258 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 3: I think overall, though, the pressure rates kind of brought 259 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 3: them back toward those teams, which is why you saw, 260 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,359 Speaker 3: you know, when Trey Hendrickson basically wasn't storming the quarterback 261 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 3: and getting to him. They were lacking in that area. 262 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 3: They still require, you know, more consistent pass rush or 263 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 3: at least pressure not necessarily sacks, but pressure from other 264 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 3: elements of that front four in the passing game and. 265 00:13:59,040 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: Then the running game. 266 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 3: Even with DJ Reader at full out out there was 267 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 3: it was a disaster in a lot of ways. It 268 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 3: was bad upfront, and they're the Evan statistics which we 269 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 3: separate into the line play versus open field and second 270 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 3: level yards. 271 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: Bad across the board. 272 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 3: The tackling was poor after being so good really in 273 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 3: the back half of twenty one and all of twenty 274 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 3: twenty two, it took a step backward. Hard to really put, 275 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 3: you know, a pinpoint on why that happened exactly other 276 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 3: than young players, lack of practice time, and just you know, 277 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 3: sort of the way the game's unfolded, and something. 278 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: To do with their opposition. 279 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 3: So I think they'll be a real sort of come 280 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: to Jesus moment in the offseason. Luen Rumo is going 281 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 3: to get back to basics, get these guys tackling again, 282 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 3: and you know, just that aspect that improved so much 283 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 3: from Cincinnati from twenty twenty and twenty twenty one into 284 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 3: the playoff run, and then in twenty twenty two. 285 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: You know, they didn't do. 286 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 3: A lot different in those years schematically at all. What 287 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 3: they did do was tackle more efficiently and much more effectively. 288 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: If they can get back to that level of tackling 289 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 3: with a little bit more beef inside, and we'll see 290 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 3: what happens with DJ Reader and or his replacement, you 291 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: know that could that'll be a real area they'll shine 292 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 3: a spotlight on, I think, defensively and look to get 293 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: since the night back to where they were at least 294 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 3: approach where they were in twenty to twenty two. 295 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 2: I thought Jordan Battle had a very solid rookie year. 296 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 2: The Bengals certainly are not about to give up on 297 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: Dax's hill. Can we assume that that will be a 298 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: much better safety duo with a year of experience in 299 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: NFL coaching under their belt. 300 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think there's any way it can't be, 301 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 3: you know, I mean, barring injury. You see it all 302 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: over the league. Young players go up and down. That's 303 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 3: just the nature of it. The defense they were asked 304 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 3: to play was very complicated. Part of the reason they 305 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 3: drafted Jordan Battle, which was something of a surprise given 306 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 3: some of their other needs at the time in the 307 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 3: draft last year, was that they thought that he. 308 00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: Could handle it. 309 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 3: He's obviously still that alabamda Alabama under the master Nick Saban, 310 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 3: and he showed that he could. It wasn't that he's 311 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 3: such a you know, more gifted football player than Nick 312 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 3: Scott or other guys out there, but you know, he 313 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 3: can comprehend what's needed on a play to play level, 314 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 3: and he understands where he needs to be, where he 315 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 3: needs to be. Visa VIA's teammates is you know, not 316 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 3: necessarily under his control. And that's the kind of thing 317 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 3: that really has to improve, and I think it only 318 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 3: can improve with more reps under their belt and communication 319 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 3: passing off receivers, knowing where to be and telling the 320 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 3: other guys in the secondary in the back seven who 321 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 3: to guard and where to be on the field during 322 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 3: any given play. 323 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: You know, these are the kind things that are just experience. 324 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: It's just playing and playing and playing. And he kind 325 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 3: of had to be thrown into the fire and take 326 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 3: your lumps. That's just kind of how it works in 327 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 3: the NFL. Very few guys come in and are instant 328 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 3: stars that have no you know, no improvement required, no 329 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 3: seasoning required. 330 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: They're just that great. 331 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 3: Battle was a good, you know, good story and played 332 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 3: very well for a third rounder. 333 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: But you know he made mistakes too. 334 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 3: So it's just a question of getting those guys more 335 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 3: time together. There's no point in pulling the plug on them, 336 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 3: either one of him or Hill or even Nick Scott. Really, 337 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 3: you could upgrade as your third safety if you want, 338 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 3: but you know that that might be not the best 339 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 3: place to put your dollars in free agency. If you're 340 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 3: looking to upgrade the rest of the team, I think 341 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: they'll just need to, you know, to get into the 342 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 3: film room, and no reach guy is meant to be. 343 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 3: And I think that's where we saw, you know, the 344 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 3: lack of Jesse Bates, of course, but Von Bell in particular, 345 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 3: just as a leader and somebody who knew exactly where 346 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: to go and more important, where to tell the other 347 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 3: guys where to go, even at after the snap or 348 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 3: right at the snap. You saw it a lot with 349 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 3: Bell pointing and telling guys, you're coming. 350 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: Here, here's what they're trying to do. 351 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 3: Don't let them do it, you know, with hand signals 352 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 3: and barking at his teammates. They missed Vaughan quite a bit, 353 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 3: and I think, you know, there's no reason to think 354 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 3: that Battle can't develop into a Von Bell like player 355 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 3: now that he's had a year under his belt and 356 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 3: can take on that same role. I think that's why 357 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 3: they drafted him, and I think he had a very 358 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 3: promising step in that direction as a rookie. 359 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: So the Bengals' biggest defensive need is what. 360 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 3: Well, I think the obvious is when you say biggest, 361 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 3: because literally and figuratively, it's that run stepper inside. Assuming 362 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 3: DJ Reader is not available. Not a Bengal who knows 363 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 3: what the status will be given. 364 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: Is unfortunate injury. 365 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 3: He really hates to see an injury and that he's 366 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 3: had already once in his career and so difficult to 367 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 3: come back from, especially as he pushes thirty. 368 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: And you know, it's just that kind of leg. 369 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 3: Injury is difficult for anybody, much less somebody who weighs 370 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 3: three hundred plus pounds. So we shall see what we 371 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 3: shall see in DJ's case, but I think they'll definitely 372 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 3: be looking at somebody else to help, you know, buck 373 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 3: up the interior run defense first and foremost, even with 374 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 3: Reader there, it suffered guy. They really need a three 375 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 3: tech and a sort of nose tackle slash zero tech 376 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 3: guy to be able to handle two blockers at once, 377 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 3: penetrate upfield, get some pressure on the quarterback, make plays 378 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 3: in the backfield. 379 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: The Bengals were. 380 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 3: Terrible in both stuffed what we call it FtM fancy stuffed, 381 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 3: which is basically stopping short yardage and also making the 382 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 3: plays for negative yards against the run. They were terrible 383 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 3: in both of that, and that a lot of times 384 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 3: comes down to not having penetrators up front. I think 385 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 3: they'll definitely look to improve on that, either in the 386 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 3: draft or free agency or both. Perhaps, you know, it 387 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: comes down to how you're gonna approach that. You want 388 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 3: to get somebody in free agencies. Don't put yourself in 389 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: a position where you have to get a guy like 390 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 3: that in the draft, especially picking a eighteenth. 391 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: It's a little dodgy. 392 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 3: Who's going to be left You never know for sure, 393 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 3: and you never want to put yourself in a position 394 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: where you have to go for a certain position in 395 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 3: the draft obviously, so I think they'll look to a 396 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 3: guy like at Grover Stewart, maybe of Indianapolis Tiger Tart 397 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 3: who had some issues in Tennessee before signing out with 398 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 3: the Texans late in the year. Some AFC South guys 399 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 3: there or some of the other possibilities throughout the league, 400 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 3: but guys who they know can occupy space and up 401 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 3: those interior run numbers that they were still porous at 402 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 3: last season. 403 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 2: Still to come with Robert what the Bengals should do 404 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: with t. Higgins and if they need to upgrade the 405 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 2: tight end position. But first, a quick reminder that the 406 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 2: Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by Paid Corps, 407 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 2: proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by 408 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business, 409 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health 410 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 2: the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is 411 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 2: the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Our guest is 412 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 2: Robert Weintraub, who writes about the Bengals for Cincinnati Magazine 413 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 2: and other publications. Let's turn to offense. Joe Mixon had 414 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: more than fourteen hundred combined rushing and receiving yards. He 415 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 2: scored twelve touchdowns. He never fumbles. I can tell you 416 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: from being in the locker room that he is a 417 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 2: leader and that is a significant factor. Should he be 418 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 2: the Bengals number one running back in twenty twenty four, Well. 419 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 3: Let me put it this way. I definitely think he 420 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 3: should be on the Bengals, Yes, and he should be 421 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 3: their starter. 422 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: At least. 423 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 3: You can make a strong argument that he could give 424 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 3: up some of his carries and let it be much 425 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: more of a democratic backfield than it was this year. 426 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 3: Not that Joe was the ones sain't give me it 427 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 3: off to me, I know it's a coach's decision, but 428 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 3: the idea that they're looking to upgrade to Derrick Henry 429 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 3: or Sequon Barkley, I hear all kinds of names out there, 430 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 3: is to me ridiculous. I mean mixing, especially for the 431 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 3: money they paid him. Had an outstanding year if you 432 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 3: match his numbers up our advanced numbers up against say 433 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 3: Derek Henry, mixing his way on top. And a lot 434 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 3: of that is because he had an excellent year catching 435 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 3: passes coming out of the backfield, which is something that's 436 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 3: really always been a strong part of his game and 437 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 3: has been somewhat underutilized in Cincinnati. Part of The reason is, 438 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 3: obviously they have such a plethora of pass catchers that 439 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 3: may change in the near future, and holding on to 440 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 3: a guy like Mixon who's an excellent receiver, still makes 441 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 3: all the sense in the world. So I think you'll 442 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: see I for one, think Joe should definitely stay, and 443 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 3: I definitely think that Chase Brown should get more love. 444 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: Obviously, he had his rookie, he. 445 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 3: Was injured, There's a lot of reasons why he didn't 446 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 3: kind of break through until near the end of the season, 447 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 3: but you could definitely see in our charts where again 448 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 3: the open field and second level yards, which for a 449 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 3: lot of the season were very low, in the bottom 450 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 3: third of the league for Cincinnati, in large part because 451 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 3: mixing for all his good traits is not really a 452 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 3: breakaway threat. 453 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: Once Brown was. 454 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 3: Introduced and got into the game, got into the offense, 455 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 3: those numbers went way up, and they wound up finishing 456 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 3: in the in the mid teens, in the middle of. 457 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: The pack there. So clearly he had an effect. 458 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 3: If they can stay healthy and be a one two 459 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 3: punch from the beginning of the year and even get 460 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 3: a third back in there, I think if this is 461 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 3: what some of the more successful running teams in the league. 462 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 3: Show is that you can never have too many running backs. 463 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 3: And if your line is strong enough and you know 464 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 3: it blocks in the scheme, that is, you know, very favorable. 465 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 3: As I guess you would say, to multiple backs and 466 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 3: multiple kinds of backs, you know, get. 467 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: Somebody else in there. 468 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: You want to upgrade on a Travon Williams, I can. 469 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 3: I can see that happening, and I think they will 470 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 3: draft a running back for sure at some point. 471 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: But to me, the the mix and. 472 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 3: Brown combination was plenty good enough to go back to 473 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four for sure. 474 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: What should they do with T Higgins? What will they 475 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: do with T? Higgins? 476 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: Uh? 477 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 3: Well, I think in near term the answers are one 478 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 3: and the same. He will be franchised, and they should 479 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: franchise him. They have a ear control at a manageable cost. 480 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 3: You don't give that up. You want to sign them 481 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 3: theoretically to a long term deal and keep him happy, 482 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 3: but you know, maybe that's. 483 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: Not in the best interest of the team. 484 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 3: You never really know for sure. Obviously he had some 485 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 3: injuries this year. We go back to the AJ Green situation. 486 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 3: Maybe toward the tail end of his career, when it 487 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 3: was like, well, we should reward him, give him a 488 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 3: long term contract when you know Joe Burrow's rookie year, 489 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 3: and they said, no, let's just franchise and keep him 490 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 3: for the one year. See how it plays out. Turned 491 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 3: out he wasn't really you know, worthy of the long 492 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 3: term deal after that, and you know, it's not exactly 493 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 3: the same T. He's a lot younger, obviously, but things happen. 494 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 3: Maybe T gets, you know, another season where his injury 495 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 3: hit and you decide that we can't spend that kind 496 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 3: of money on a second receiver with Jamar Chase obviously 497 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 3: coming up for a rich extension and you want to 498 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 3: put the money somewhere else. It's difficult to say. It's 499 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 3: not that Tea doesn't deserve it, but I think in 500 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: this case, another year Tea and A managed fixed costs 501 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 3: that you know what's going to have. 502 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: You know, you have him in the. 503 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 3: Fold, and that way you don't have to worry about 504 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 3: finding another number two receiver of his quality, which is 505 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 3: very hard to find despite the fact there's so many 506 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 3: receivers coming into the league every year who who were 507 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: good or you know how the potential for being outstanding. 508 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,239 Speaker 3: I think in this case, the right thing to do 509 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 3: and what the Bengals do are the same. They will 510 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 3: franchise See and keep them around for twenty twenty four 511 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 3: for sure, and then you know, kind of worry about 512 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 3: the future, push it down the road a little bit, 513 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 3: which is fine for the time being. 514 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 2: You retweeted something last week that caught my eye. The 515 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: last eight playoff teams had something in common stellar tight 516 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 2: end play. Do the Bengal need Stellar tight end play? 517 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? 518 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 3: Is that retweeted or re exed? What is the totology? 519 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: Sure? 520 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 2: Redisseminated, Yes, exactly. 521 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 3: I put it out there after hearing it from someone else. 522 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: I think let's put it that way. 523 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think there's any question they need an upgrade. 524 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 3: Stellar is in the ivy beholder. I suppose you know 525 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 3: they It was just fine in twenty twenty two with 526 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 3: Hayden Hurst. I don't know if i'd call him stellar, 527 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 3: but it was good enough for what they had and 528 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 3: what they needed. You can make the argument with the 529 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 3: offense kind of reframing itself, perhaps away from concentrating on 530 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: such a three wide out attack with the likely departure 531 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 3: of Tyler Boyd, that you want to get a tight 532 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 3: end who is better and you know, puts more stress 533 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 3: on the defense in ways that we haven't seen in 534 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 3: Cincinnati in sometime. 535 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: You know, brock Bauers is not going to last till 536 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: number eighteen. 537 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 3: Sorry for all those people fantasizing about that, but seems 538 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 3: highly unlikely. And the Bengals aren't going to trade up 539 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 3: for him either. I would doubt so in that sense. 540 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: I think they will go after somebody in free agency, 541 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 3: perhaps like adult and Schultz, who was a target last 542 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 3: year and decided to go to Houston. He's still a 543 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 3: free agent. You know, they got him on a one 544 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 3: year deal. If he wants to stay with the Texans. 545 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 3: There's plenty of other guys out there. Hunter Henry in 546 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 3: New England leaps to mind. No a fan perhaps who's 547 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 3: been somewhat you know, underwhelming, but has an extreme amount 548 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 3: of talent. You know, I think that there's no question 549 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 3: that they what they want to do is have a 550 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 3: better pass catching threat. Now, what they did have last 551 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 3: year was, you know, a way to work both Tanner, 552 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 3: Hudson Andrew Sample into the attack and they found ways 553 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 3: to do it. 554 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: I think that spoke highly for Brian Callahan. 555 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 3: Who congratulations to him now the head coach of the 556 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 3: Tennessee Titans, and much deserved. 557 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: And I think that caught the eye of a lot. 558 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 3: Of people around the league, is you know, they managed 559 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 3: to take a couple of guys who you know didn't 560 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 3: have much profile and much experience in doing things positively 561 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 3: for an off let's say, in Hudson and Sample, and 562 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 3: made them both work in ways that helped the offense 563 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 3: down the stretch. With a backup quarterback in there, and 564 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 3: Dan Pitcher obviously taking over for Brian is the natural 565 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 3: choice and nothing's going to change in that respect. So 566 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 3: you know, I don't think they need to necessarily rework 567 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 3: how they run their offense entirely if they get in 568 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 3: somebody who threatens the defense down the seam a little 569 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 3: bit more than the guys they have last year, but 570 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 3: they desperate that sort of downfield element of attack more 571 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 3: so than what they had last year. And with a 572 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 3: quarterback like Joe Burrow, who's so accurate and can really 573 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 3: make a player like that, you know, better than he 574 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 3: actually is, for lack of a better phrase, you know, 575 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 3: you find somebody like a Hunter Henry or Dalton Shaltz, 576 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 3: and then you really got something there where offenses will 577 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 3: be hard pressed to stop all their threats when they're 578 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 3: all on the field. 579 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 2: Let's assume another team throws a bunch of money at 580 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 2: Jonah Williams to be the starting left or right backle 581 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: on that other team. Should the Bengals next right tackle 582 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: be a high draft pick or an affordable free agent? 583 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,239 Speaker 3: Well, that's a great question in terms of you know 584 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 3: who's available and for what costs, and we don't know 585 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 3: that yet. 586 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: For sure. 587 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 3: I go back to the point I made earlier where 588 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 3: you don't want to go into the draft saying oh, 589 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 3: we definitely want to draft a tackle at number eighteen 590 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 3: and we're just going to take the. 591 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: Best one left. 592 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 3: Seldom winds up working out well for your Team's how 593 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 3: you wind up with Billy Price. 594 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: No offense against Billy Price. But that's what happened. 595 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 3: They desperately need a center, and they drafted one who 596 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 3: is not worthy of that draft status. 597 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: And that could happen. 598 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 3: I mean in eighteen you're in sort of a no 599 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 3: man's land there if they were, you know, picking eighth 600 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 3: or something, if Jake Browning couldn't play and they wound 601 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 3: up at a top ten pick, and you can sort 602 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 3: of guarantee yourself one of those elite tackles coming out 603 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 3: this year in the draft. That would be a different conversation. 604 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 3: But because that's not the case, you don't know if 605 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 3: tale Waga, who's you know? You always want the Polynesian 606 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 3: guys on your team, don't get me wrong, But you 607 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 3: don't know if he's going to be there. You don't 608 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 3: know what level of player is going to be there. 609 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 3: I think they'll probably, assuming they do lose Jonah, which 610 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 3: we don't know for sure yet, either, they'll look to 611 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 3: replace him in free agency, at least to a point 612 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 3: where you have somebody you know can come in and play. 613 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 3: I think, you know, they like Cody Ford, but I 614 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 3: think they want to go a little bit better than that. 615 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 3: Maybe Mike on Whenue of the Patriots is a little 616 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 3: too good or will wind up being a little too 617 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 3: pricey for them. 618 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: That remains to be seen. 619 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 3: Somebody in between, like a Germaine Olano. 620 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: I can't even say his name, thank you. 621 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I breezed through the Polynesian name, but I had 622 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 3: trouble with Jermaine and sorry about that, buddy. But somebody 623 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 3: like that who not only is you know quality enough 624 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 3: to play, but it isn't going to break the bank, 625 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 3: but also has position versatility and can play on both 626 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 3: sides of the line. I think somebody like that makes sense. 627 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 3: And then obviously if there's somebody like in the draft, 628 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 3: either in the first round or later, you bring somebody 629 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 3: in there and groom him to become the starter sooner 630 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 3: or later at right tackle, assuming again that Jonah does depart. 631 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 2: One more topic about the Bengals and then one question 632 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 2: about you. The Bengals topic is this. We mentioned Brian 633 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: Callahan moving on to Tennessee and Dan Pitcher getting promoted 634 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 2: from quarterbacks coach to offensive coordinator. There's a chance for 635 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 2: a restart of sorts. Is there anything obvious the Bengals 636 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 2: should be thinking about with this change? 637 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 3: Well, I think what it's less about like just you know, 638 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 3: running the ball more or you know, kind of dedicating 639 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: themselves to the run more. And I think you know 640 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 3: that that all that kind of thing that the fans 641 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 3: like to talk about in terms of run pass ratio 642 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 3: often comes down to the game script, the opponent, who 643 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 3: you know, what's going on at that particular, who's healthy, 644 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 3: who's not. It's very easy to sit here and say, oh, yeah, 645 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 3: Dan Pitcher is going to come in and try. 646 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: And run the ball more. But who really knows what's 647 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: going to happen. 648 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 3: I think what they but I do think there's a 649 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 3: way to make the team. And I don't want to 650 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 3: say this to make it sound like Joe Burrow is 651 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 3: not worthy of doing this, because he certainly can. 652 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: But you want to make it. 653 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 3: So that every game doesn't rely so much on Joe 654 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 3: Burrow's excellence. And you know when twenty twenty two last 655 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 3: year they were so good down the stretch, especially, they 656 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 3: didn't rely on Burrow to do it all all the time. 657 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, it. 658 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 3: Becomes a crutch with teams with great players at quarterback 659 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 3: that it's you know, we got Joe, let's let. 660 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: Him figure it out. 661 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 3: And like you were saying before about masking what you 662 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 3: don't do well, I think what you want to do is, 663 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 3: especially on offense, gave yourself in a situation where you 664 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 3: do so many things well that the teams that the 665 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 3: opposing defense really has no option that works for them, 666 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 3: and you always wind up in a city situation where 667 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 3: you're either you know, in a lead in the second 668 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 3: half or you know right there, you're never playing from behind, 669 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 3: You're never relying so much on Burrow and his talents 670 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 3: to bail you out of things you want to get 671 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 3: in a situation all the time where you know we 672 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 3: can do it if we need to. Joe's obviously good enough. 673 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 3: But let's let some of the other guys, Let's en 674 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: some of the other areas of attack carry the weight here. 675 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 3: Let's let more of a short passing game. Let's let 676 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 3: the running game dictate how defenses play us. And I 677 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 3: think going under center more, which they started to do 678 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 3: before and after, you know, before and around Burrow's injury, 679 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 3: and certainly when you saw Jake Browning come in certain 680 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 3: elements of the attack under center rather than the preferred 681 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 3: shotgun method that Burrow obviously is great at and prefers. 682 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 3: But I think they'll work in a lot more of 683 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 3: the under center, which allows them to kind of run, 684 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 3: run or pass out of similar formations. Puts a lot 685 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 3: more stress on the defense and gives them a lot 686 00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 3: more things to guess at, and it just makes so 687 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 3: much of your offense work better and uh and look better. 688 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 3: And I think that's what you'll probably see, at least, 689 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 3: you know, depending on Dan Pitcher's thoughts about that. I 690 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 3: don't really know for sure, but I think that's what 691 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 3: the Bengals are trending toward before Burrow got hurt, and 692 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 3: you know, kind of used Jake Browning's games as proof 693 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 3: of concept that it really can work with a guy 694 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 3: who's less limited as a passer than Burrow, but you know, 695 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 3: could move unlike Joe in some of those games, and 696 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 3: could you know, put defenses under different kinds of stresses 697 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 3: than Burrow can. I think that's what they want to 698 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 3: work toward going forward. And obviously, if they need to 699 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 3: rely on Joe just to bail us out of a 700 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 3: game late with his magic right arm, they always have 701 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 3: that in the back in their back pocket. 702 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,919 Speaker 1: But you don't want to rely on that so much. 703 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 2: He continues to ooze awesomeness out of every pore. Certainly, 704 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 2: you have famously said, all right, we've got a few 705 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: minutes left, and I want to talk about your labor 706 00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 2: of love, the NYC one thousand. Now, I grew up 707 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 2: in New York State, in Lakewood, New York. And when 708 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: some people hear that, they assume that I grew up 709 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 2: close to New York City, that's not the case. Lakewood 710 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 2: is closer to Cincinnati than it is to Manhattan. My 711 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 2: family had three acres and two barns, so I grew 712 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 2: up in a very rural environment. And yet I love 713 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 2: the NYC one thousand because it's great sports writing. Explain 714 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 2: for people that have no idea what I'm talking about 715 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 2: your project, the NYC one. 716 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 3: Thousand, A labor of love might undersell it. It's a 717 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 3: herculean labor of love. Perhaps a labor of insanity, we 718 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 3: shall see. But yes, I have a sub stack, and 719 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 3: it's dedicated to counting down the top one thousand games, matches, races, 720 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 3: of all sporting events of every stripe in the history 721 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 3: of New York City. Now the conceit has had to 722 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 3: have actually happened in New York City or the greater 723 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 3: New York City area. So you know, Super Bowl three 724 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 3: involving the Jets playing the Colts in Miami, a famous game, 725 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 3: but that doesn't count. It has to happen in New York, 726 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 3: where I am from. I grew I was born in 727 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 3: the city and grew up just outside it, so that's 728 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 3: that's my hometown. You and I of course share the 729 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 3: Syracuse connection, so we have that Central New York, but 730 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 3: Syracuse doesn't count either. It has to be in New 731 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 3: York City. And yeah, I just got into it because 732 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 3: I just, I don't know, I've always been enamored of 733 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 3: obviously sports and sports history. 734 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: A big fan of the New York. 735 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 3: Teams, Bengals being the wille exception, and you know, I 736 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 3: just I'd like to start reading about things that happened 737 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,839 Speaker 3: not just before I was born, but way before I 738 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 3: was born. And a lot of what we think of 739 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 3: is just pure sports history actually conflates with actual history, 740 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 3: for lack of a better word, and certainly municipal history. 741 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 3: And if you're interested at all in what New York 742 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 3: has gone through as a city in developing, you know, 743 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 3: low these many years from you from an almost pastoral 744 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 3: background to where they were in the late eighteen hundreds 745 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 3: post Civil War, when sports began in New York. All 746 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 3: the way through, it's you know, rise and rise to 747 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,439 Speaker 3: the number one city in the world. Sports has really 748 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 3: mirrored that and you see that in the in the 749 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 3: in the action that's taken place there, and so many 750 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 3: not just great games with great athletes, great figures of 751 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 3: all stripes who have come through and have performed in 752 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 3: these you know, magical palaces that they that they have 753 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 3: in New York Yankee Stadium, in Madison Square Garden and 754 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 3: various others. So I took it upon myself. I started 755 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 3: with I thought I would just do one hundred perhaps, 756 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,439 Speaker 3: and then it realized, you know. 757 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: If you're going to do this, do it right. 758 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 3: And it seemed me that a thousand was exactly the 759 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 3: round number I needed. So I have a six point 760 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 3: scoring method, you know, kind of determining the importance of 761 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 3: the game, the drama involved, the historical figures involved, whether 762 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 3: or not it you know, registered outside of New York, 763 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 3: these kind of things, and then I write a short 764 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 3: you know, essay about each game. Does don't go into 765 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 3: super detail necessarily, but it gives me a chance not 766 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 3: only to go back in time with the reader and 767 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 3: and you know, kind of talk about some of the 768 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 3: interesting tidbits, but also you know, bring forth some of 769 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 3: the great writers in particular who covered these games in 770 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 3: the golden era of newspapers and magazines, you know, as 771 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 3: we've seen with the recent death of Sports Illustrated and 772 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 3: the written media, print media in general, physical print media anyway, 773 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 3: it's really a lost art and something that I particularly am, 774 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 3: having been a long time obviously fan of Sports Illustrated 775 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 3: in particular, feel terrible about. So the more I can, 776 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 3: you know, kind of do my part to remind people 777 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 3: of what great stuff that not just Sports Illustrated, but 778 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 3: all the New York newspaper writers brought to the enjoyment 779 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 3: of the events by their coverage. That's a big part 780 00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 3: of it too, So I try and get that in 781 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 3: there well and bring to light some long forgotten and 782 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 3: maybe some you know, not so recently forgotten games and 783 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 3: events that took place in New York. It's just a 784 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 3: lot of fun and hopefully a lot of fun for 785 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 3: people who read it. 786 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 2: It is a lot of fun to read. I'm having 787 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 2: a great time, and we're only in the eight hundreds, 788 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 2: so there's a long way to go and a lot 789 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,240 Speaker 2: left to enjoy. We're about to run out of time 790 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 2: on this zoom call, so I will make sure that 791 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 2: folks know how they can get the NYC one thousand. Robert. 792 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 2: I always appreciate your time, Thanks for the insight, and 793 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 2: look forward to talking Bangles again sometime soon. 794 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: Anytime for you. 795 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 3: Dan. 796 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: You know that, buddy, Thanks so much. 797 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 2: If you would like to check out the NYC one 798 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 2: thousand and you really should do a search for NYC 799 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,280 Speaker 2: one thousand substack. That will take you to a page 800 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 2: where you can sign up for a free subscription and 801 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 2: have the latest stories sent directly to your inbox. 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That helps more Bengals fans 819 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 2: find us. I'm Dan Hord and thanks for listening to 820 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 2: the Bengals Booth podcast