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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease Bombshell. In the last hours.

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Speaker 2: According to reports, police find what they believe is blood

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Speaker 2: on multiple items inside Brian Coburger's Pullman apartment. Now here's

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Speaker 2: the kicker. The apartment looks like someone professionally cleaned it out,

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Speaker 2: wiped it down clean before cops could get in there.

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Speaker 2: But blood doesn't lie this as a secret storage locker emerges.

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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us here at Foxination and Serius X one eleven.

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Speaker 2: Brian Coburger, the prime suspect of the murders of four

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Speaker 2: beautiful Idaho University student. Yes, we are learning more and

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Speaker 2: more about evidence police have amassed. Is it the student's

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Speaker 2: blood in his apartment? Even when he cleaned that apartment

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Speaker 2: meticulously wiping it down, tail tale blood.

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Speaker 1: Drops remain behind? What do we learn? Again?

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us. First of all, take

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Speaker 2: a listen to our friends at crime Online.

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Speaker 3: On the night of December thirtieth.

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Speaker 1: Police department search work come to the door.

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Speaker 3: Police searched Brian Coberger's apartment in Pullman, Washington. Only hours earlier.

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Speaker 3: Coburger had been arrested across the country in the Poconos.

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Speaker 3: According to documents, police found sixty reddish brown stains, two

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Speaker 3: of which on a pillow and a mattress, tested positive

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Speaker 3: for blood. Even if the blood does not belong to

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Speaker 3: the four college students killed in Idaho, it could be

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Speaker 3: useful to the prosecution if.

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Speaker 4: It's the defendant's blood. Was it a result of the

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Speaker 4: victims struggling with him?

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Speaker 2: You are hearing Deficitorney John Waldron speaking to our friends

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Speaker 2: at WFMZ and lore Here's Crime Online.

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Speaker 5: Fifty items from Brian Coberger's apartment were tested by police.

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Speaker 5: Two of those items, a mattress cover and a pillow,

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Speaker 5: tested positive for blood in the presumptive chemical tests. There

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Speaker 5: is a dark red spot on the kitchen counter near

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Speaker 5: the sink, which could not be tested, but was collected.

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Speaker 5: According to documents, to whom the blood belongs is not

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Speaker 5: yet known. Not all of the tested items were seized

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Speaker 5: by police. The other forty eight tested items, including stains

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Speaker 5: on towels, swabs of bathroom sinks, and the shower drain,

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Speaker 5: a microwave and pizza cutter, tested negative. More than a

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Speaker 5: dozen items were seized, however, including the two betting items

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Speaker 5: and the discoloration from the countertop.

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Speaker 2: Why couldn't some of the blood be tested? To whom

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Speaker 2: does it belong? And this I guess the backdrop of

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Speaker 2: police believing the apartment was wiped clean.

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Speaker 1: Take listen our friend's WFMZ.

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Speaker 3: Other than the stains, police found barely anything in the apartment.

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Speaker 3: Even the trash cans were empty. Waldron says even the

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Speaker 3: lack of evidence left behind could be incriminated and could.

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Speaker 4: Be argued by a prosecutor that he fled Washington. In essence,

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Speaker 4: he had a consciousness of guilty.

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Speaker 2: With me an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 2: what we know right now. But first I want to

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Speaker 2: go out to Laura Ingeld's senior investigative correspondent for Fox

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Speaker 2: News Channel joining us and you can hear her whenever

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Speaker 2: you want to on a brand new hit series Fox

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Speaker 2: True Crime Minute.

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Speaker 1: It's everywhere you get podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Lauren, thank you for being with us and congratulations on

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Speaker 2: your new hit True Crime Minute. Tell me about the

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Speaker 2: blood that we think it's blood found at Coburger's Pull

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Speaker 2: them an apartment. This is the apartment that's about ten

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Speaker 2: minutes away from where the.

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Speaker 1: Students were murdered. Many people believe in their sleep.

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Speaker 6: Well, and you said it there too, Nancy. That's what

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Speaker 6: we're waiting to find out that these tests will run.

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Speaker 6: We know that some of these items have blood. It's

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Speaker 6: confirmed to be a blood like substance, but we don't

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Speaker 6: know whose blood. That is going to be so important

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Speaker 6: and most likely going to hopefully be revealed at this

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Speaker 6: preliminary hearing if we could get there in late June.

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Speaker 6: But the number of tests that will run on the

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Speaker 6: items found in this apartment, some did come back positive

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Speaker 6: for blood stings. This is according to the court documents

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Speaker 6: that were just released by Washington State University Police. They

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Speaker 6: have not released who they belonged to, though. The stand

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Speaker 6: on the mattress cover, a stand on a pillow inside

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Speaker 6: the apartment testing positive for blood. But those other items

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Speaker 6: that we've been so curious about, the sink, the shower drain,

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Speaker 6: a curtain rod, the entry to a door, and sings

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Speaker 6: under a coffee table and near a computer. They tested

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Speaker 6: all of that, but they did not turn up any

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Speaker 6: traces of blood. I think that there was hope that

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Speaker 6: there was going to be some kind of DNA evidence,

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Speaker 6: some kind of traceable evidence, that there was not.

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Speaker 1: To Cheryl McCollums joining me.

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Speaker 2: Forensics expert, Cold Case Investigative Research Institute founder and director.

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Speaker 2: You can find her at coldcasecrimes dot org and she's

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Speaker 2: the star of a new podcast, Zone seven, which is awesome.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, give me the bottom line on this.

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Speaker 7: They threw luminol over that place, They used a light source,

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Speaker 7: They probably use you know, chemical testing. They were looking

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Speaker 7: for the smallest amount of evidence you can think of.

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Speaker 7: So when you look at this scene and they tested

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Speaker 7: over fifty things, if two came back as human blood,

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Speaker 7: then you're going to concentrate now on those two. When

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Speaker 7: we learn who's DNA those two, you know, small piece

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Speaker 7: of evidence belonged to I think that's again, is what

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Speaker 7: is going to connect him to the original murder scene.

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Speaker 1: You know, as if there's not enough.

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Speaker 2: But that said, you know, Cheryl McCollum, I love when

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Speaker 2: a defendant does this massive cleanup. And I've always noticed

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Speaker 2: how when people go missing or are murdered, suddenly the

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Speaker 2: defendant turns into an eatneck.

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Speaker 1: He's just got to run out to.

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Speaker 2: Walmart or Target or wherever and buy three or four

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars worth of cleaning supplies and they're always caught

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Speaker 2: on camera and then they come home and they just

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Speaker 2: start spring cleaning, you know, in the middle of a snowstorm.

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Speaker 2: Now what's interesting here, Well, so much is interesting, as

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Speaker 2: Laura Ingle lays it out, But the fact that the

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Speaker 2: bagdrop is the whole apartment looks like it's been wiped down.

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Speaker 7: It looks like it's been wiped down, and the shower

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Speaker 7: curtain is missing. So again, if you're trying to take

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Speaker 7: some bloody items out of the house, that would be

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Speaker 7: a good way to do it, because something is not

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Speaker 7: going to see through the shower curt you know.

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Speaker 2: Joining me in addition to Laura England, Cheryl McCollum, Toby

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Speaker 2: Woolson is joining us for as a consultant specializing in erology,

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Speaker 2: DNA and bloodstained patterns. You can find Toby at Noslow

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Speaker 2: Forensic dot com.

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Speaker 1: Toby, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: You know, no matter how hard you try, you just

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Speaker 2: really can't get rid of all the blood evidence.

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Speaker 1: To the naked eye, you can't see it.

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Speaker 2: Now, clearly you've got a criminal procedure major living in

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Speaker 2: the apartment. He knows how to wipe down surfaces, he

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Speaker 2: knows all about scorting four to nine and so forth.

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Speaker 2: But unless you are using luminol, like Cheryl McCollum just suggested,

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Speaker 2: you can't see it all.

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Speaker 8: That's correct.

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Speaker 9: Lumina has a screen sensetivity. Depending on which articles you read,

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Speaker 9: it's one part per million is some of the highest civities.

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Speaker 9: For the thing about cleanups is that you know you

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Speaker 9: leave behind trace amounts, and luminol sensitivity will detect those

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Speaker 9: trace amounts. But a luminol is also hampered by its

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Speaker 9: cross reactivity with a lot of the agents that are

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Speaker 9: in cleaning products. So what happens frequently when you're looking

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Speaker 9: for a cleanup is rather than seeing the blood, you

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Speaker 9: see all the swirls and everything from them cleaning up

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Speaker 9: and the damage that's been done by mixing the blood

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Speaker 9: with the cleaning products. But it is a very good

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Speaker 9: search reagent if you're comfortable with it and have experience.

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Speaker 2: With using it, do you, Cheryl McCollum, again, knowing that

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Speaker 2: the apartment was wiped down seemingly by a pro he

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Speaker 2: just imagined Toeburger. You know he's been studying criminal procedure,

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Speaker 2: criminals themselves, criminal law. He's getting his pH d in

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Speaker 2: the study of crime. Don't you know, he tried to

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Speaker 2: wipe down every or if as he could.

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Speaker 7: Right with that, some other mistakes could be made, for example,

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Speaker 7: a missing shower curtain. That's going to be a red

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Speaker 7: flag to anybody that would walk into that bathroom. If

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Speaker 7: there's not a floormat, if there's towels that look like

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Speaker 7: they're missing, if he bought a set, if there's sheets missing,

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Speaker 7: if there's a pillow case missing. Because one of the

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Speaker 7: stains that said was on a pillar that didn't have

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Speaker 7: a pillow case on it, Well, I want to know

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Speaker 7: where the pillow case is. So again, he might have

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Speaker 7: noticed the pillow case had a stain, but he missed

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Speaker 7: the pillar.

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Speaker 2: Mark Tate joining us a high profile lawyer out of

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Speaker 2: the Savannah jurisdiction who shot to national fame during the

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Speaker 2: Alex Murdog trial. You can find him at the Tate

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Speaker 2: Lawgroup dot com.

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Speaker 1: Markin Tate.

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Speaker 2: Don't you just hate it when your client goes home

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Speaker 2: to his parents' house for Thanksgiving, Christmas break and he

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Speaker 2: just has to take his own shower curtain with him.

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Speaker 10: Well, you know it was always difficult, Charles.

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Speaker 1: It takes his own commote everywhere.

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Speaker 10: Okay, No, I understand it is difficult, and I know

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Speaker 10: it was always difficult for me personally.

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Speaker 1: I call it something else. I call it provative.

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Speaker 2: You want to tell me once yourr is going to

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Speaker 2: identify with taking your own shower, Curt, and I'm tominis.

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Speaker 10: In no way. Now, this guy is in really bad trouble,

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Speaker 10: and you know he has a public defender. I think

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Speaker 10: she's got to obviously she's got a duty of fiduciary

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Speaker 10: duty to her clienty the best you can, but this

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Speaker 10: is really difficult. The things that are adding up that

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Speaker 10: the prosecution has, Uh, this is just another arrow in

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Speaker 10: the quiver that makes it so. I think the real

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Speaker 10: question is whether it's this, you know, whether there's a

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Speaker 10: death penalty case that that is going to be brought

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Speaker 10: Because I'm not seeing any light of day. And that's

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Speaker 10: the thing I really like to do, Nancy, that you know,

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Speaker 10: is I like to find some kind of crack, some

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Speaker 10: light of day through something that I can say, you know,

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Speaker 10: maybe we can talk about this and defend what's going

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Speaker 10: on here.

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Speaker 1: When are you talking about that? That's not what I

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Speaker 1: asked to take What are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: I asked you, why would anybody take the shower Curt

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Speaker 2: when they go home for Thanksgiving break.

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Speaker 10: Oh, because they're guilty and they want to get rid

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Speaker 10: of a freaky shower curtain.

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Speaker 1: Exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: You know that leads me too, And I'm sure by

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Speaker 2: the time I come back to you going to come

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Speaker 2: up with a theory, but I guess you're gonna say, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I might as well put it out there. I would

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Speaker 2: have had muld on I had to get rid of it.

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Speaker 2: There's no way to clean that.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with me. It's a grace.

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Speaker 2: To Doctor Jeff Klashevski joining US forensics psychologist, author of

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Speaker 2: Dark Sides. Doctor Jeff Klashevski, you can clean your apartment

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Speaker 2: all you want to, and Laura Ingele, don't be shy

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Speaker 2: for Pete's sake, jump in when you've got some tidbits

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Speaker 2: of facts for me. Doctor Kawski, you can clean your

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Speaker 2: apartment all you want to, but in my mind this

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Speaker 2: guy is so e fact. In a few moments, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to play sound of Coburger getting pulled over for

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Speaker 2: edging into a crosswalk where people are crossing and he

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Speaker 2: actually has the cop and tell me if I got

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Speaker 2: this wrong, Laura engele, go look up the law, and

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Speaker 2: you can hear him saying, well, from where I come from,

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Speaker 2: you know this is not a crime, and I don't

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Speaker 2: believe this is a crime, and actually asking the cop,

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Speaker 2: the lady cop, to go get the law to show

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Speaker 2: him that that was a crime.

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Speaker 6: Listen, And this gives us another fliver of information about

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Speaker 6: Brian Colberger himself, right, what he sounds like in this

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Speaker 6: bodycam footage, how he behaves while under pressure or dealing

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Speaker 6: with somebody of authority. Now, we've been hearing from people

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Speaker 6: who know him in the weeks and months after the

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Speaker 6: quadruple murders. They described him as someone who was constantly

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Speaker 6: always showing people that he thought he was smarter than them.

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Speaker 2: Hear that tape. You hear that tape. People don't like that. Okay,

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Speaker 2: go ahead, I know it all.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So we heard that from everybody. Now, I went

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Speaker 6: to Pennsylvania. I was outside of that jail where he

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Speaker 6: was held the moment that he was arrested. We raced

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Speaker 6: to Pennsylvania. I was there for a good five days

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Speaker 6: and I can tell you from being in it is

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Speaker 6: a rural area. But I'm sorry. There are crosswalks, and

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Speaker 6: there are street lights and there are stop lights, and

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Speaker 6: you know, we spent some time there. I hung out

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Speaker 6: outside of his parents' gated community. While it is far

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Speaker 6: back in the country, there are crosswalks and there are

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Speaker 6: you know, normal things that you would associate. So anyway,

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Speaker 6: his argument as I was listening to him, I listened

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Speaker 6: to it several times, as I'm sure you have too,

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Speaker 6: talking to the officer talking about the law, wanting to

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Speaker 6: explain it. But the other side too, you can you

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Speaker 6: can listen to that bodycam footage of him getting pulled over,

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Speaker 6: and well, on one hand, it sounds like a guy who's,

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Speaker 6: you know, trying to be super smart and trying to

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Speaker 6: talk about the law, and it also sounds like a

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Speaker 6: guy who's trying to get out of a ticket.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like a world class a hole to me, But

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Speaker 2: that's just me. Maybe you guys will interpret this differently.

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Speaker 2: To daughter Jeff Kalischewski, if I'm sure that's not a

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Speaker 2: proper psychological diagnosis of world class a hole. But I'm

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Speaker 2: just really enjoying for the moment. Let me not from

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Speaker 2: one for this moment, think about the four students who

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Speaker 2: were slaughtered. Slaughtered many people believe in their sleep because

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Speaker 2: right now, I want to think about Coburger and.

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Speaker 1: How he is so anal.

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Speaker 2: Remember when he was finally arrested at his parents' house

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Speaker 2: in the Poconos, he was wearing plastic gloves, rubber gloves

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Speaker 2: to take out the trash. Nothing could have made me

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Speaker 2: happier except the fact that I believe he wiped down

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Speaker 2: his entire apartment, took his shower curtain, got rid of it,

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Speaker 2: but still left behind some blood.

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Speaker 11: Well, if I can comment down nanswer, this is doctor Jeff.

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Speaker 11: I've talked to a lot of people over the years

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Speaker 11: who've meticulously planned crimes and tried to approach planning and

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Speaker 11: pulling off a crime from sort of an academic perspective,

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Speaker 11: and one of the things that usually trips them up is,

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Speaker 11: for example, if they're going to plan a murder, this

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Speaker 11: is the first murder they've been involved with, first murder,

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Speaker 11: they've planned, first murder. Maybe they've they've they've done, but

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Speaker 11: law enforcement has had lots of experience with murders. So

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Speaker 11: a lot of times when I've seen people who've taken

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Speaker 11: this real academic approach and studied police technique and investigative techniques,

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Speaker 11: they will miss something because you can study this kind

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Speaker 11: of stuff all you want, but experience is what's really important.

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Speaker 11: So it doesn't surprise me that he would make mistakes

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Speaker 11: along the way. Big mistakes like taking the shower curtain.

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Speaker 11: That's beyond just cleaning your apartment. Big mistakes like take

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Speaker 11: the pillowcase off a pillow with blood, but the pillow

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Speaker 11: stays there. So even with all your academic study and

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Speaker 11: your academic approach to planning and trying to pull off

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Speaker 11: a crime, it won't trump the experience of seasoned investigators

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Speaker 11: who are on crime scenes all the time.

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Speaker 2: Dont Jeff Kelischewski, that was incredible what you just said, Hey,

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Speaker 2: Mark Tate, isn't it the truth? Let me jump off

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Speaker 2: what doctor Jeff Kelischewski just said. I remember going through

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Speaker 2: law school thinking, oh, can I try a case?

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Speaker 1: Will I be awful? Can I pull it off? Blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah.

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Speaker 2: I had all my law xeroxten ready and every question

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Speaker 2: written out, which I did till the bitter end, by

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Speaker 2: the way, but when you get in there to try

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Speaker 2: a case, it is like nothing they can tell you

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Speaker 2: in moot court I can tell you that much. Or

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Speaker 2: trial advocacy, it's hand to hand mutual combat. And at

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Speaker 2: the end of every day, by clear out the court

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Speaker 2: and I was just sitting there thinking, what in the

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Speaker 2: h E double all just happened. I'd look at the

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Speaker 2: class like I've been to seven a m. And at

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Speaker 2: seven pm and it's like a big blur.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, it's amazing. You get that weird time compression. And

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Speaker 10: you know, the kind of a joke among lawyers in

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Speaker 10: trial is there's there's three trials. There's the case that

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Speaker 10: you plan to try, the case that you think you tried,

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Speaker 10: and the case that you actually tried. So yeah, you're

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Speaker 10: exactly right, all bets are off once you walk into

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Speaker 10: that courtroom and you got twelve jurors and a potentially

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Speaker 10: mercurial judge. You never know what's going to happen.

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Speaker 2: You're right, same thing with crime saying Cheryl McCollum, how

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Speaker 2: many have we've been on together? You know, you can

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Speaker 2: prep all day long in your classroom Cheryl McCollum at

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Speaker 2: the Cold Case Research Institute, But when you get out there,

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Speaker 2: it's like, seriously, like all h double l breakslops, it's

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Speaker 2: nothing like you can prepare for.

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Speaker 7: You can't prepare because your classroom is not going to

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Speaker 7: give you wind and rain and cold and heat and

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Speaker 7: activity with animals and even family showing up so you

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Speaker 7: can practice all you want yelling.

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Speaker 2: And screaming and contamination. And it's crazy. I think I

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Speaker 2: heard Laura Ingle jumping in. Laura, what were you saying?

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Speaker 6: Well, I was just just back to the shower curtain part.

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Speaker 6: I just you know, as you think about the shower

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Speaker 6: curtain being gone. Now, he had started school there, he

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Speaker 6: had started attending this how that passed fall, so he

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Speaker 6: probably moved in around August or September. But I'm just

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Speaker 6: I just keep going back to the fact that they

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Speaker 6: ran tests on the sink and the shower drain and

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Speaker 6: the curtain rod, and there were no signs of blood

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Speaker 6: on those things. And yes, the shower curtain is missing.

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Speaker 6: I was just making that note that he had just.

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Speaker 2: Moved in, right, Okay, So you're saying he moved in

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Speaker 2: and hadn't bought a shower curtain, or that he just

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Speaker 2: only took bubble bass, didn't eedy shower curtain.

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Speaker 6: You know, I don't know. I'm just saying he just

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Speaker 6: I was just curious. I was just double checking our notes.

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Speaker 2: Laura Engle, you just gave the defense an awesome comeback. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that he hadn't bought a shower curtain yet, or that

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Speaker 2: he only took bubble bass.

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Speaker 1: That was my fault.

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Speaker 9: I think I can address the Japan the shower curtain

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Speaker 9: issue and stuff.

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Speaker 2: First of all, who is this This is Toty Wilson

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Speaker 2: and Toby Great.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, dear.

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Speaker 9: As somebody who's done forensic biology and lots of crime

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Speaker 9: scene work and listening pattern analysis. The assumption is in

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Speaker 9: the crime of this nature that the defendant got himself

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Speaker 9: very bloody at the crime scene. That's not necessarily the case.

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Speaker 9: We know from many cases that the how bloody the

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Speaker 9: defendant gets is a factor of if the assailant or

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Speaker 9: if the victims fight back or not. Is also a

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Speaker 9: factor of what's being used and the directions the blood

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Speaker 9: is being thrown in. So it's not I've had cases

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Speaker 9: involving multiple stab wounds in all where the defendant has

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Speaker 9: little or no blood on them. The focus here really

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Speaker 9: on that shower curtain, I think, is not where you

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Speaker 9: want to look. If he was bloody after leaving that

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Speaker 9: crime scene, with which horror victims, he may have been

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Speaker 9: the more important thing to be looking at is the

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Speaker 9: interior of the Hyundai, because just like in the oj case,

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Speaker 9: where you know they examined the interior of the Bronco

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Speaker 9: even though it was excluded from evidence, they found the

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Speaker 9: victim's blood in that car, and the reason being because

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Speaker 9: you don't have a chance to clean up at the

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Speaker 9: crime scene, you're anxious to get out of there and

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Speaker 9: get away from it. So the interior of the Hyundai,

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Speaker 9: I would think, is a more valuable thing to have

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Speaker 9: examined than the apartment itself. The apartment, you know, being

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Speaker 9: that it's an apartment, meaning multiple people could live there

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Speaker 9: and if it has been furnished when he moved in,

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Speaker 9: any blood you find could be totally irrelevant to the case.

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Speaker 9: So I, as a renting biologist and bloods better expert,

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Speaker 9: would be more interested in what was in that car.

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Speaker 2: You know, Toby Wilson, I can listen to you talk

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Speaker 2: all day long. I started off disagreeing with you about

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Speaker 2: how there are stabbings where there is no blood, because

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Speaker 2: in this case, Laura and Eryl jump in and help

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Speaker 2: me out with the facts. It's my understanding it was

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Speaker 2: an incredibly bloody crime scene, but which tells me the

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Speaker 2: killer would have had blood on him. But you are right,

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Speaker 2: there can be stabbings and the way that they go down,

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Speaker 2: the defendant does not get very bloody. It's amazing, but

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Speaker 2: I've seen it happen. I know that it can happen.

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Speaker 2: So that would not be the alpha and the omega,

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Speaker 2: the be all and the end all of this blood investigation.

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Speaker 2: Whether he himself was bloody, but based on this crime

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Speaker 2: scene isn't true. Laura Engel and Cheryl McCollum, that we've

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Speaker 2: been told it was really bloody.

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Speaker 6: We have certainly heard those. Look, the police didn't come out.

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Speaker 6: They haven't really told us much, right, and they said

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Speaker 6: it was a very traumat crime scene. Obviously that was observed,

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Speaker 6: but they really haven't given us a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of detail, right Cheryl, Cheryl, what do you know?

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Speaker 10: That's right?

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Speaker 7: But here's what I can tell y'all.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, The.

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Speaker 7: Defense might say, well, he didn't have time to get

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Speaker 7: a shower curtain. He had just moved in.

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Speaker 1: He had time to.

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Speaker 7: Buy gloves, a shovel, some goggles, and a black mask.

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Speaker 7: He freaking had time to get a shower curtain. He

404
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Speaker 7: chose what he bought.

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Speaker 1: Also, he moved in in August.

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Speaker 2: Let's don't forget that he moved in in August, so

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Speaker 2: he would have had August, September, October, and part of November,

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Speaker 2: unless again he let kel Gon take him away in

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Speaker 2: a bubble bath.

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Speaker 1: He had a shower curtain.

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Speaker 2: Guys, I've got so many other things to discuss, including

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Speaker 2: the emergence of a secret storage locker, But I really

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Speaker 2: want you to hear Brian Coburger talking back to a cop. Now, I,

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Speaker 2: as a felony prosecutor for many many years, would not

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Speaker 2: talk back to a cop. Absolutely not, even if I disagreed.

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Speaker 2: Forget it. No, you can fight the ticket in court,

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Speaker 2: but not on the street. Reality. I got to hear

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Speaker 2: Coburger now, this is him. Look, I grew up in

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Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere, and I take a lot of

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Speaker 2: pride in that we didn't even.

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Speaker 1: Have a red light or stop slidn But.

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Speaker 2: I even I knew enough as a new driver not

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Speaker 2: to pull into a crosswalk where people would be walking.

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Speaker 2: But when he gets pulled over for that, I want

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Speaker 2: you to hear how he talks to the lady cop.

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Speaker 1: Let's go with our cut four zero five, Jack, Yeah.

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Speaker 12: I was just slightly into the crosswalk, so yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 12: where I'm from Pennsylvania. We actually don't have like crosswalks.

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Speaker 5: Oh so even if you're if you're kind.

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Speaker 12: Of slightly yeah, there's a little bit more leeway as well,

431
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Speaker 12: Like there are a few lines, Like there's one white

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Speaker 12: line up, there's another one.

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Speaker 13: Who think there's like a like a certain margin from

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Speaker 13: which you can actually kind of put your veh company

435
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 13: your vehicle.

436
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I know it.

437
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 14: Law is very state to state, but there is a

438
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 14: law in Washington for blocking an intersection like that proceeding

439
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 14: through and you don't when you're just stalling.

440
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: I forget the actual verbiage.

441
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 14: I can find it for you, but it's like stalling

442
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 14: blocking an intersection.

443
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: I'm just curious about the law, don't Oh no, yeah,

444
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: I can find it for you. Okay.

445
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 2: I love this woman. Am I saying her name correctly?

446
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 2: Laura Engele officer Isabelle Lungas sounds right? And then she

447
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: offers to go get him.

448
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: That's amazing the law. I mean, Tate, Mark Tate.

449
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 6: I love her.

450
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: She's going uh huh mm hmmm mm hmmm.

451
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 2: Thinking, oh, what a jerk. He's actually trying to talk

452
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: me out of this. Did you hear that?

453
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 10: Yes, he had his eyes looked crazy to me, and

454
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 10: you know, he was doing the thing that you now

455
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 10: just said. Is no reason to speak to the police

456
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 10: on the side of the street like that, But he did,

457
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 10: and he I tried to engage her in some sort

458
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 10: of thing that almost sounded like a prank. Oh, I'm

459
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 10: from a strange place. I don't know how to work crosswalks.

460
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 10: Give me a break.

461
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are no crosswalks in Pennsylvania. I lived in Philly.

462
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: There are plenty of crosswalks in Pennsylvania. The guys, he

463
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 2: actually slits the he he sends the lady cop to

464
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: go get the law.

465
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: Take a listen to four zero six.

466
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 14: I don't see Pennsylvania registration like it all. Okay, let's

467
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 14: see expirers November twenty second or twenty twenty two.

468
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: Okay, and yeah, one of those receptions.

469
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that lost. It'll hand it back to you.

470
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go check your info.

471
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 14: I'll try by that RCW the law for you, and

472
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 14: I'll be rebeck thank you.

473
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 8: All right.

474
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: I guess that's going to be the code of Washington,

475
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: the law.

476
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: And listen.

477
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: I can't believe she's still being so cheerful with this

478
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 2: guy who's sending her off like she's his secretary to

479
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: come back with the law.

480
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: Fetch go get me the law. Okay, listen to the Okay,

481
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: So I found it.

482
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 14: So I don't know what in Pennsylvania to the where

483
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 14: you go to find lawsbon in Washington, it's called the

484
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 14: Revise Code of Washington. So I'll try to turn my

485
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 14: brightness up. But it's basically it's just called an RCW.

486
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 14: So it's RCW forty six sixty one.

487
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: Dot two zero two.

488
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 14: So it's no driver shall enter an intersection unless there

489
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 14: is significant space on the other side of the intersection.

490
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: To accommodate the vehicle. He is operating without obstructing.

491
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 14: The passage of other vehicles despite any traffic control signals,

492
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 14: signal indications proceeds. So you had a green light, so

493
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 14: you're thinking you can go, but you're blocking the intersection.

494
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: Okay, I think I need a shrink on this.

495
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 2: Doctor Jeff Kalashevski, forensics psychologists, author of Dark Side. He

496
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: actually is challenging the traffic. He's in the middle of

497
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 2: the crosswalk. He's trying to tell her I just nedged

498
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: in a little bit. That's what I call an admission.

499
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: He's challenging her on the law and trying to talk

500
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: circles around the traffic officer who's having none of it

501
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: and actually goes and has to recite to him the RCW,

502
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: the Revised Code of Washington.

503
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 11: Yeah, he thinks he's smarter than her and tries to

504
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 11: outsmart her, but she smart at him when she's quoting

505
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 11: the law. And that's what he gave up because he,

506
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 11: I mean, he had to accept that he lost smarted him.

507
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, Cheryl, I'm very surprised that the lady officer didn't.

508
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: He's just enough force to effect an arrest, and you

509
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 2: know what I mean, throw him down a handcuff him.

510
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 2: But listen to four zero nine one more time, four

511
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: o nine.

512
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 13: I'm actually just from a very rural area, so you

513
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 13: just don't have crosswalks unless I visited an area where

514
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 13: there are crashbacks, and then it's not very frequent. Yeah,

515
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 13: I do apologize if I was asking you too many Wesmans.

516
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: About the law. I wasn't trying to like, no, no, no,

517
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: not at all.

518
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 14: Like I understand you're not from here, so if you

519
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 14: don't know a lot of people don't know a bunch

520
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 14: of laws like I only know it because this is

521
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 14: what I do. But yeah, if you're ever curious on

522
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 14: any more laws RCW and they can be hard to

523
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 14: read because it's in like legal language. But hope that helps.

524
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 12: Definitely.

525
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, have a good day. Definitely you too. Thanks. I

526
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: don't know the laws.

527
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: He's getting his PhD and the study of criminal procedure

528
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: and crime.

529
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: Okay, help me out, Cheryl McCollum.

530
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 7: Well, as you will know, ignorance the law is no defense. Plus,

531
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 7: what he's trying to do here, in my opinion, is

532
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 7: play her. So he thinks I'm going to be able

533
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 7: to you know, Jedi mind trick her and not giving

534
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 7: me a ticket. Will that failed? And what happened as

535
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 7: soon as he failed, he started to apologize. So that's

536
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 7: what I think we're going to see in court. He

537
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 7: thinks he's smart, but now that he's stunt like a

538
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 7: rat in a coffee can, you're going to see a

539
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 7: different attitude.

540
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: Has anybody on this panel ever seen leave It to Beaver? Anybody? Yeah,

541
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: even in rerus, because I'm sure you're all so young

542
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: you didn't see it the first time around. Do you

543
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: remember Eddie Haskell suck up. He's always going, oh, missus Cleaver,

544
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: I love your pearls.

545
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: That kind of guy.

546
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: This is so Eddie Haskell. That's what I have to

547
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: say all the time to the twins. Don't suck up.

548
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: It's not working Eddie Haskell. This is Eddie Haskell sucking up?

549
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: What see real?

550
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: This is over a ticket. What is he going to

551
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: do when he gets in trial. I bet he's going

552
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: to give his lawyer. He's making two hundred dollars an hour,

553
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: by the way, I bet he is going to give

554
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: her fits. Laura Ingele, I want you to now, now

555
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: that I've listened to Brian Coberger's voice longer than I

556
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: ever wanted to, I want to talk about this secret

557
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: storage unit. Guys, take a listen to our cut three

558
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: ninety seven. Our friends at k t v B.

559
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 15: We found a padlock round in shape in the living

560
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 15: room closet. Based my training experience, I recognize the padlock

561
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 15: to be the shape of locks typically used on storage units.

562
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 8: You're hearing a phone call between Washington State University Assistant

563
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 8: police Chief Don Daniels and a district judge.

564
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 11: All right, please proceed.

565
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 15: I believe the storage unit or closet was likely used

566
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 15: by Coburger to store the items and likely access between

567
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 15: the time of the murders and has travel to Pennsylvania,

568
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 15: where he was later arrested.

569
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 8: Daniels believes the storage unit could contain DNA evidence, including blood,

570
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 8: skin cells, footprints, fingerprints, or hair. Daniels is asking the

571
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 8: judge for a search warrant to enter coburger storage unit.

572
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So Mark Tate, joining US high profile lawyer out

573
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: of Savannah with the Tate Law Group, explain what is

574
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: happening right there.

575
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 10: Well, it looks like that, you know, they have found

576
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 10: a reason, they've got probable cause to conduct another search.

577
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 10: And you know, I think that obviously he hasn't surreptitiously

578
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 10: enough hidding his evidence. And I think that what we

579
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 10: see as a dogged prosecutor who's going to put a

580
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 10: case up against him that doesn't leave any stones unturned.

581
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 10: That's what I think is going on.

582
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: And guys, take a listen to our cut three nine

583
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: eight again KTVB, there's.

584
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 5: Probable cause in the courtorated by author ricence.

585
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 11: You just signed my name, Jerry G.

586
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 10: Lvey on a search warrant.

587
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 5: To enter the four described storage.

588
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 8: FACI because police conducted a presumptive test. These documents do

589
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 8: not say definitively if the stains are blood.

590
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: It just says that they could be.

591
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 8: It's unclear if any of the items police reported that

592
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 8: day came from the storage entit or if they were

593
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 8: all from his apartment.

594
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

595
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: You know what it sounds like to me tate that

596
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: the judge or the magistrate is giving a is granting

597
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: a search warrant over the phone or by zoom.

598
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: Because he says, I authorize.

599
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: You to sign my name Gary J. Libby, And that

600
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: is not uncommon. Sometimes you need search warrant in the

601
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: middle of the night and you find whatever magistrate is

602
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: on duty and you call them or go there. But

603
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: you can call now, especially with zoom and FaceTime, you

604
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: can easily.

605
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: Get a warrant.

606
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 10: It's made officers a lot, made it a lot easier

607
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 10: for them to get warrants when they need them. And frankly,

608
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 10: judges like being involved in an early stage so that

609
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 10: there are a few errors that keep evidence out later.

610
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 10: And so I think that's you know, if COVID did anything,

611
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 10: I think it made it so law enforcement can reach

612
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 10: magistrates to get warrants. And I think that's at least

613
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 10: one positive thing that we've seen as judges have become

614
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 10: more accessible law enforcements of these kinds of things. I

615
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 10: think head off evidence herey admission problems down the.

616
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: Line, and I'm glad they recorded it because I don't

617
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: want a defense a turney jumping up like you tap

618
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: there at the end, going oh.

619
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: There wasn't a warrant. It was an emergency.

620
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: There were no exigence circumstances, so therefore you can't use

621
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: anything you find in the search fruit of the poisonous tree.

622
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: Bottom line, we learned police search a secret storage locker

623
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: belonging to suspected quadruple killer Brian Koberger that they believe

624
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: cops believe he accessed after the murders. So Laura Ingle

625
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: joining me, senior correspondent, Fox News Channel and Star Fox

626
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: True Crime Minute Podcast.

627
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: Laura, what do we know?

628
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 6: Well this, you're right, and that was a phone call

629
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 6: that was recorded on December thirtieth, and that boys, you

630
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 6: hear as you identified Assistant Chief Don Daniels of the

631
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 6: WSU Pullman Police Department. So they noticed that there is

632
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 6: this round lock. Now I don't know how many people

633
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 6: here on our panel and listening who have had an apartment.

634
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 6: I've had many. And when you get an apartment, if

635
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 6: it's a small one like this, you usually will get

636
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 6: I've always had a little, tiny closet, some kind of

637
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 6: a little storage unit where you could put you know,

638
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 6: your your chairs or whatever. It's it's usually pretty small.

639
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 6: The one thing that's interesting about what Daniels wrote in

640
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 6: her report about what she found or didn't find in

641
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 6: the storage closet. Now, did he store.

642
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: Things in there?

643
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 6: Did he remove them before he took off and went

644
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 6: home for the holidays. She did write in her report

645
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 6: there were cobwebs going into the storage closet and the

646
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 6: floor was dusty, and she wrote it did not appear

647
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 6: the closet had been used recently, and nothing was seized

648
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 6: or collected from the closet because there was nothing in it. Now,

649
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 6: if he had something in there, I'm just noting what's

650
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 6: in the report, We're we just don't. She says that

651
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 6: there was nothing in there.

652
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: I mean that'sower curtain, Laura, where the shower curtain was?

653
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 6: That's it, hey, Nancy.

654
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 7: It literally could be that he put the shower curtain

655
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 7: down and we pulled up that's where he went in,

656
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 7: and he had clothes that he changed into and put

657
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 7: everything else on the shower curtain and discarded it. That

658
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 7: could absolutely be the case.

659
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 2: Like a hobo, you know how they have seen the

660
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 2: pictures of them putting everything in a big piece of material,

661
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: putting it on their back. That gathering everything he wanted

662
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: to get rid of in the shower curtain and getting

663
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 2: rid of it all. We also are getting somewhat of

664
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 2: an idea where the defense is heading in this case.

665
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut four to ten from

666
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: our friends at crimeonline dot com.

667
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 5: Brian Coberger's public defender claims evidence that could prove Coburger's

668
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 5: innocence has not been turned over to the defense. An

669
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 5: Taylor has filed a motion to compel discovery. Among the

670
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 5: evidence requested footage from Coburger's arrest, notes from his interrogations,

671
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 5: and details about how police tested DNA found at the

672
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 5: scene of the University of Eye to Home murders. The

673
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 5: defense team is asking the judge to compel prosecutors to comply.

674
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 5: Many of these items were included in the first request

675
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 5: for discovery filed back in February. A second request was

676
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 5: filed on March twenty fourth. There is a total of

677
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 5: seven items requested again, the body in dashcam footage from

678
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 5: Coburger's arrest, Copies of lab reports detailing the forensic evidence,

679
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 5: collection and analysis of items recovered at Coburger's home as

680
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 5: well as his parents' home, trash cans and other receptacles,

681
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 5: Coburger's Hyundai Elantra, all lab testing, all recordings and notes

682
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 5: from Coburger's interrogation and training records for multiple officers. Their

683
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 5: names have been redacted from the filing. A redacted event

684
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 5: is listed, requesting all reports, notes, recordings, and photos from

685
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 5: that event. Attorneys say this contains exculpatory evidence. The judge

686
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 5: has yet to respond to the motion. The defense team

687
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 5: is requesting a ten minute hearing on the issue before

688
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 5: the late June preliminary time.

689
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds overwhelming, but this is what they did.

690
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: There are forms that you pull up online and their

691
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: discovery forms, and they list everything but the kitchen sink,

692
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: well plus the kitchen sink that could possibly be requested

693
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: on any discovery motion by the defense. So that's what

694
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 2: you've got right here. And then they threw in some

695
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: specific things. Lauren Ingele joining us from Fox News. The

696
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 2: reality is that defense is claiming the state is hiding evidence.

697
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: That's what they're that's what they're claiming.

698
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, they want to get their hands on everything.

699
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 6: And the other part of this, when we're talking about

700
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 6: that search of the storagelocker and of the apartment of

701
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 6: Brian Coberger's office at WSU where he had just completed

702
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 6: his first semester, they found that everything was empty. And

703
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 6: did you also read about this letter that had happened

704
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 6: in September? He was he was kind of in trouble

705
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 6: leading up to everything that occurred in October November. In September,

706
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 6: there was there's a letter here that said that you

707
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 6: had This is a letter directed to Brian Coberger that

708
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 6: he had an altercation with a faculty, with a professor

709
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 6: John Snyder, and saying that they had some kind of

710
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 6: back and forth, that he had failed to meet his

711
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 6: expectations as a TA and as a result, on November second,

712
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 6: the graduate director met with him to discuss an improvement

713
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 6: plan of his behavior and performance. And then there were

714
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 6: there were further conflicts.

715
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: There were a lot of conflicts Cheryl McCollum. Many of

716
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 2: the conflicts Coburger had as a TA teaching assistant, which

717
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: was his duties as he was getting his pH d

718
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: at WSU Washington State University, were centered around women. He

719
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 2: would grade the more harshly, talk down to them. This

720
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: is these are their allegations. I'm not guessing or hypothesizing.

721
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 2: This is what they say. That they were single out

722
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 2: and criticized, over criticized compared to their male counterparts.

723
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 7: Sure, even in his social circle, they say that he

724
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 7: would have, you know, these bursts of anger, and he

725
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 7: would sometimes be extremely rude. That should, you know, shock

726
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 7: no one on this panel, much less your audience.

727
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: He is I think so.

728
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 7: Just you can pinpoint exactly what his behaviors were like,

729
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 7: exactly what his thought processes were. He was not good

730
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 7: at hidding anything, not his attitude and not murder.

731
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 2: And don't you know he was ill when that lady

732
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: traffic officer pulled him over and then almost immediately produced

733
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 2: the relevant law.

734
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: She pulled it up for him our cell phone. We

735
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: say this to you, my friends.

736
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 7: I read where the correations officers say he didn't do

737
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 7: anything but watch TV and watches every single thing about him.

738
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 7: I know he can't stand you because again, you're smart,

739
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 7: you're capable, and you are calling his number out every day.

740
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: Every day.

741
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: Hey, Toby Wilson, join me friends a consultant at No

742
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: Slow Forensic dot Com.

743
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: Toby, can you ever.

744
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: Really and truly clean a bloody crime scene?

745
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 9: My experience over the years has been now that I've

746
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 9: been called into a lot of situations to search for

747
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 9: blood after they suspect or can demonstrate that there was

748
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 9: to clean up. And there's always stuff missed. You Either

749
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 9: it's either under carpeting or it's peached through the cracks

750
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 9: and the tile, or it's under refrigerators. Cleaning up the

751
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 9: crime chain and getting rid of blood. Even for professional services,

752
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,919
Speaker 9: they miss stuff. There's always something behind.

753
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: An FYI, everybody wind X don't cut it when it

754
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 2: comes to cleaning a cry and saying you know, Toby Wilson,

755
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: I only pray that you are correct.

756
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,479
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfalls. Goodbye, friend,