Speaker 1: Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Hi, and
Speaker 1: welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin.
Speaker 1: The interviews in these episodes, you'll hear me talk to
Speaker 1: people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences,
Speaker 1: are drawn to the stories of Gin, and draw lessons
Speaker 1: from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists,
Speaker 1: and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss
Speaker 1: how and why this series came about in a very
Speaker 1: personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy.
Speaker 1: All Right, so I'm pretty excited. I think this is
Speaker 1: the first time I've ever recorded any kind of podcast
Speaker 1: with my husband. Air Faun, isn't that right? Correct? That
Speaker 1: correct rates five years and made it finally you've made it. Well,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show Air Fun Disease. Thank you very much. Okay,
Speaker 1: So for for this episode, what I wanted to do
Speaker 1: is I want to talk a little bit about how
Speaker 1: this show came about, and then you and I are
Speaker 1: going to have a conversation about like what it was
Speaker 1: like for us growing up with these stories, any experiences
Speaker 1: we've had Okay, So people who know me know that
Speaker 1: I'm a lawyer. I have a criminal justice podcast undisclosed.
Speaker 1: A lot of people know um me, probably just through
Speaker 1: cereal and a non story and stuff. But I am
Speaker 1: a box sunny American Muslim. I fun, are you a
Speaker 1: box any American Muslim? Canadian? Close enough? Almost made it
Speaker 1: to the Promised Land? Well, I mean I think it's
Speaker 1: a step above America. Right, Well, things are different now,
Speaker 1: things have changed since we got married. But anyway, um so,
Speaker 1: I what happened was this. I was a big fan of,
Speaker 1: and I still I'm a big fan of the show
Speaker 1: Lore by Aaron Manki. And a few years ago I
Speaker 1: had the pleasure of meeting Aaron Mankey. I think my daughter,
Speaker 1: my middle daughter was with me at the time at
Speaker 1: like a podcast movement conference and she was fan girling.
Speaker 1: I was fan girling who took pictures with him. I
Speaker 1: talked to him about it, and I told him, you know,
Speaker 1: I just love folklore. I love supernatural stuff. It's been
Speaker 1: stuff I've been like reading about and listening to, like
Speaker 1: well reading about since I was a kid. And then
Speaker 1: I asked him, I said, have you ever considered like
Speaker 1: for flore To branch out of like European and North
Speaker 1: American folklore, like there's a whole world of full floor
Speaker 1: and all kinds of things. Uh And he said no.
Speaker 1: And he said no because I wouldn't want to like
Speaker 1: dabble into cultures and try to understand like they're out
Speaker 1: like they're not mine, like he's you know, and I
Speaker 1: get that. I think that was really smart. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: respectful of him. So what happened was like a year
Speaker 1: or two ago, spy and why anyway? I told him,
Speaker 1: I said, there's this entire world of beings called the Gin.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't know what that is. I said, well,
Speaker 1: you've heard of the genies, like right, ad um? And
Speaker 1: I explained to him kind of like the background and
Speaker 1: how Muslims are obsessed with it. And every time we
Speaker 1: get together we swapped Gin stories. But um, so a
Speaker 1: year or two goes by, I can't remember how long,
Speaker 1: and suddenly he reaches out and said, hey, I am
Speaker 1: producing a whole slate of shows um that are like
Speaker 1: similarly themed to lore for I Heeart Media. Would you
Speaker 1: like to produce a podcast about the Gin? Your version
Speaker 1: of inception? Is it? My version of how you sort
Speaker 1: of planted the seed. Right, I don't remember inception well enough.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't remember it well enough. All right,
Speaker 1: So I remember when I I was immediately excited and
Speaker 1: then I told you that about this. What was your
Speaker 1: first reaction? Well, I was excited too as well. I
Speaker 1: think it's I mean, it's definitely unique something that I
Speaker 1: feel there's a thirst four within them with some community,
Speaker 1: I think exposing it to the broader community that they
Speaker 1: too would enjoy something like this. Okay, that is not
Speaker 1: the reaction I remember. I remember you saying, we're gonna
Speaker 1: get haunted, We're gonna get possessed. You do not talk
Speaker 1: with the gin. You do not, You can't. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: that's true too. It's like Voldemort. You know, you don't
Speaker 1: mention the name. It's it's it's it's something that you avoid,
Speaker 1: especially growing up in these families. I mean, remember this
Speaker 1: was something. I'm sure you remember it too with your
Speaker 1: parents too as well. It's like, don't talk about it, um,
Speaker 1: but it's it's kind of the thing. I had a
Speaker 1: bit of a different experience with my family. Well, well
Speaker 1: here's the Okay, we'll get into that in a second.
Speaker 1: But I, um, said yes, even I said I will
Speaker 1: risk the possession because I figured, like, if on my
Speaker 1: husband he's always like you're always praying and stuff, I'm like,
Speaker 1: we'll be okay, um, also my prayers and let's do
Speaker 1: this um. And the other thing was I had spent
Speaker 1: like four or five years working really really hard on
Speaker 1: like wrongful conviction stuff and ring the other book, and
Speaker 1: was I almost wanted like a creative project that would
Speaker 1: be less stressful, although it was equally stressful. If now
Speaker 1: more it was pretty stressful. Yeah, it's been a it's
Speaker 1: been a long year because I spent this whole year
Speaker 1: pretty much scripting this and researching this podcast. So all right,
Speaker 1: so now let's regress into our childhood. So I grew
Speaker 1: up in like the DC area mostly, and if I
Speaker 1: grew up were Toronto, Canada and parts of parts. Actually
Speaker 1: a few years I lived right outside Montreal in a
Speaker 1: place called Cornwall. So I want to ask you what
Speaker 1: is your earliest kind of memory around You said that
Speaker 1: your parents would say, don't talk with the gin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that I mean, so the prompt was don't talk about it.
Speaker 1: And furthermore than it was like don't go outside and
Speaker 1: late at night don't hang around trees, don't urinate on
Speaker 1: trees if you're if you're a girl, like they would
Speaker 1: tell my sisters, don't go up with wet hair after
Speaker 1: dark by trees because there are so many I guess
Speaker 1: experiences that they heard about um when they were growing
Speaker 1: up where people were possessed in those in those circumstances.
Speaker 1: So and additionally, it was mentioning it. Don't mention it
Speaker 1: because you then sort of attracted. It's like the law
Speaker 1: of attraction. You mentioned Jin, and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you might be haunted by some so, uh, you know
Speaker 1: for us as as kids growing up. But did your
Speaker 1: parents ever say to you, don't do this because we
Speaker 1: have we have experienced with jin. We know what's like,
Speaker 1: we've been like, have have any of your elders told
Speaker 1: you Jin stories they've experienced? No? No, No, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm sure you know growing up in the
Speaker 1: family family, there wasn't much of that type of conversation.
Speaker 1: It was just like, don't do this, and I don't
Speaker 1: ask questions, right, it was like I know better. So
Speaker 1: we extrapolated from that that maybe they had some experiences,
Speaker 1: and then I think my mother would sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: past questions, I mean past comments about Oh I knew
Speaker 1: this girl growing up and she would go out with
Speaker 1: her hair open and wet after dark, and she just
Speaker 1: went bogg love the hair, I guess, so I guess
Speaker 1: they love the Muslim hair, Muslim wet hair. The question remains, yes,
Speaker 1: that how came all these other people who are not
Speaker 1: Muslim go out at night? Maybe the hair is not wet.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I think I think that the key. I
Speaker 1: think maybe the the motivaane factor is taking a shower
Speaker 1: with wet hair or something like that. UM So, if
Speaker 1: your hair isn't washed, or if it's filthy, then maybe
Speaker 1: this was filthy. It's filthy. Warning out there with filthy
Speaker 1: hair you not washed, don't worry. Now, I was kidding.
Speaker 1: But I think the urine aspect of it is that
Speaker 1: you know, and you speak about this in the podcast.
Speaker 1: UM Gin's are made from fire, right, so dousing them
Speaker 1: with urine or any water is in a way detrimental
Speaker 1: for them. And I've heard from other people where if
Speaker 1: you do do that, there are times gins can be
Speaker 1: killed because that's the exposure to water. So the family
Speaker 1: or the relative of that gener will then attack you.
Speaker 1: Um because of that injuring them. Yeah, so let me
Speaker 1: ask you, do to what extent do you believe? Okay,
Speaker 1: so here's the deal with my family. My parents never
Speaker 1: talked about We just didn't talk about supernatural still, like
Speaker 1: it wasn't a thing, right, We didn't talk about There
Speaker 1: are some families where they really do talk a lot
Speaker 1: about this. We didn't. It was just like, and my
Speaker 1: mother never would say, don't go out because they don't
Speaker 1: go out at night with your hair open because of gin.
Speaker 1: She would just say for me and my sister, she
Speaker 1: would said, don't go out after dark, um without covering
Speaker 1: your head, and you know, And it was like, what,
Speaker 1: why what is that about? Because I mean, as a Muslim,
Speaker 1: I do cover my head now, but I didn't growing up.
Speaker 1: I didn't start that like Beau, I was thirty years old.
Speaker 1: That was totally something I did my own. But growing
Speaker 1: up I didn't do it. My mother didn't do it.
Speaker 1: But I was like, why is this thing like about
Speaker 1: just in the dark? Right? Um? I don't remember if
Speaker 1: there was much said about trees. So my question is,
Speaker 1: do you have to what extent do you think it's
Speaker 1: kind of like just a control mechanism because even even
Speaker 1: the urinating under the trees. I'm not saying that the
Speaker 1: full core doesn't exist. It does exist. Like for there
Speaker 1: are stories that go back hundreds may thousands of years,
Speaker 1: not just in Muslim tradition and other tradition, to like
Speaker 1: in Jewish treation and other tradition. Um would let say
Speaker 1: that they are these demons and entities that occupy certain trees. Um.
Speaker 1: But also, hello, you know, urinating in a tree, like
Speaker 1: in public is just generally kind of gross and disrespectful,
Speaker 1: so maybe it was one way also, well, I mean
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean because if you if you know,
Speaker 1: I mean you know, um, and in the pins or
Speaker 1: in the villages, people go out into the to the
Speaker 1: the the farms or to the open land to urinate.
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure how. Yeah, but you know, here's
Speaker 1: the thing. Though it's not usually open. It'll be like
Speaker 1: in a field, so nobody can really see you, and
Speaker 1: it's not under a tree necessarily, so you're it's kind
Speaker 1: of private in a way even though it's and they
Speaker 1: have designated areas where they that they got to go
Speaker 1: somewhere if they don't have a outhouse writing. But well, okay,
Speaker 1: so let me ask you this, Um, so your parents aside?
Speaker 1: What about like you grew up around a lot of family, right, yeah, so, um,
Speaker 1: that was definitely something we've spoke about, especially when cousins
Speaker 1: would get together. A lot of cousins we did, um
Speaker 1: so ghost stories and jin stories and people would you know,
Speaker 1: hear from somebody else and then it would be passed on. Okay,
Speaker 1: So was there ever a point like you guys um
Speaker 1: tried to like summon a gin? You know there was,
Speaker 1: I mean, we we tried exactly, but we actually went
Speaker 1: through out of a Luiji board instead. So we we
Speaker 1: assumed that it would be summoning spirits or jins or
Speaker 1: something like that. But um, it was definitely who was it?
Speaker 1: Who was there? So was my my sister, my older sister,
Speaker 1: my brother, and then my a few of my cousins
Speaker 1: we had gotten together. I think I was probably I
Speaker 1: want to say it was about six for seven. You
Speaker 1: didn't go run and tell your parents because you know
Speaker 1: they're freaking out though, because I mean, I mean I
Speaker 1: know I didn't of course. I mean there's mom's a word, right,
Speaker 1: and you don't want to be invited back to the party.
Speaker 1: So um, you know, of course they didn't mention anything
Speaker 1: to my parents, but um, yeah, so that was kind
Speaker 1: of like the first sort of exposure to it. Um,
Speaker 1: nothing really happened. And I think, you know, wegi boards,
Speaker 1: there's so much people say that. Sometimes it's so you
Speaker 1: tried it one time, but you do like turn off
Speaker 1: the lights and turn off the lights. We created a
Speaker 1: makeshift wigi board and oh you don't even get like
Speaker 1: a real one. Did you just make a paper remember correctly?
Speaker 1: And then um, I think somewhere along that time we
Speaker 1: also did. That's why it didn't work, do you think
Speaker 1: so maybe maybe? Um? And then I think along that
Speaker 1: time we also had um we were we were into
Speaker 1: this Bloody Marry. Do you remember Bloody Mary. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Bloody Mary. Did you ever do it? I want to
Speaker 1: say I did, but I think I was too scared.
Speaker 1: I was so young, and the stories that you know,
Speaker 1: my cousins were telling me, or my my sister and
Speaker 1: my brother were saying it just really freaked me out.
Speaker 1: They did do it, I want to say they did? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, um, I did once. And you know what,
Speaker 1: it is absolutely an optical effect. Look, you're in the dark,
Speaker 1: you're spinning around, you flip on the light's real quick,
Speaker 1: you're gonna see something like your eyes are not quite focused, right.
Speaker 1: I remember there being something weird. I didn't do like
Speaker 1: a bloody looking for a girl standing behind me or
Speaker 1: anything like that profound, but there was something. And then
Speaker 1: I ran out of the bathroom and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm just not gonna do this again, Like, even if
Speaker 1: I see her, what am I going to get out
Speaker 1: of it? What's the point of this? Right? Right? Right?
Speaker 1: And and and I think it's just the curiosity of
Speaker 1: you know, children, Just that's really true. I mean, you're here,
Speaker 1: So whose idea was it? Like? Who want to do it?
Speaker 1: Your sisters are like, I think it was my cousin's. Um.
Speaker 1: So my cousins, UM, I think they might have been
Speaker 1: a little more more braver, more sort of had more
Speaker 1: experiences with with these types of stories. So whenever we
Speaker 1: visit them, they would have, you know, a ray of
Speaker 1: stories that they would be just telling us. And this
Speaker 1: was one of the experiences that they wanted to share
Speaker 1: with us. I think they may have tried it with
Speaker 1: their friends, um, and it just seemed like a good
Speaker 1: exercise to do with the cousins. When we all got
Speaker 1: together do you remember and like I remember and one
Speaker 1: of the episodes, I'll talk about it, so I won't
Speaker 1: talk about it here. But um there was one story,
Speaker 1: a gen story that if this family friends they told
Speaker 1: us that stuck with me, Like growing up, do you
Speaker 1: remember any of like you said, your cousins tell you
Speaker 1: a lot of stories, was any story that really particularly
Speaker 1: stuck with you? Well? Um so, my cousins and Niagara Falls. Uh.
Speaker 1: They owned a motel. So this was way back in
Speaker 1: like nineteen eighties or something like that. Um So they
Speaker 1: would have a lot of experiences um and the supposedly
Speaker 1: the motel was built upon UM I think um a battlefield,
Speaker 1: like an old battlefield. It was like the British and
Speaker 1: fighting the the first nations. Um so. Uh. They would
Speaker 1: have these experiences where a specific room light would turn on,
Speaker 1: um and then they'd go turn it off, and then
Speaker 1: then that light would turn on again, or they would
Speaker 1: hear a television and then those are back in the day.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like the televisions where we had to remote.
Speaker 1: It was those you know televisions where you'd pulled the
Speaker 1: nozzle and then change the channel, click click, you have
Speaker 1: the knob and then you you changed and you clicked
Speaker 1: with what was a uh F and VHF. I think
Speaker 1: back in the day UM so so so somebody would
Speaker 1: actually have to pull the knob for it to turn on.
Speaker 1: It's not like and so so they would just be
Speaker 1: like it would be the locked motel room and they
Speaker 1: would hear the TV turn on. All of a sudden,
Speaker 1: they hear the TV turn on. And there was this
Speaker 1: UM experience, I think the one story where they mentioned
Speaker 1: that behind UM the motel they ended up finding like
Speaker 1: stairs that were leading down into some sort of um
Speaker 1: I guess a seller and they had seen it before UM.
Speaker 1: And they mentioned that their father and their uncle ended
Speaker 1: up going down there. The only thing that they meant,
Speaker 1: they related back to us was that they saw what
Speaker 1: it looked like to them was dried blood going down
Speaker 1: the stairs, UM two kids. It was probably probably could
Speaker 1: have could have been like maybe somebody dropped in some
Speaker 1: soda or something of that nature. Yeah, right. But what
Speaker 1: they did say is that after their father and uncle
Speaker 1: went down there, they still all the kids do not
Speaker 1: go down there. So that just of course created you
Speaker 1: know that for their curiosity. What what are they telling
Speaker 1: us not to see down there? Um, so did the
Speaker 1: kids go down there? No, they really no, No, I
Speaker 1: think that would be like, okay, we absolutely have right.
Speaker 1: It seemed like a good experience with with all your
Speaker 1: cousins because now you have a pack to go with you.
Speaker 1: Do they still have motelity, No, it's not. Actually I
Speaker 1: don't know if the motel is still there, but they
Speaker 1: saw that. Yeah, it would be nice. You know. There
Speaker 1: was an experience that I think the first actual experience
Speaker 1: was there Niagara Falls. So, um, um, you know their house,
Speaker 1: the front portion of it was actually an office, the
Speaker 1: motel office. Um. So we were hanging around in the
Speaker 1: front portion of that of the house, and what happens
Speaker 1: is that all of a sudden we see, um, some
Speaker 1: like a shadow walking up to the door. Um. Now,
Speaker 1: so we're expecting maybe are you in the office. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're in the office. We're just playing with the lights off,
Speaker 1: just messing around in the office with the lights off.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden we see the shadow
Speaker 1: that is approaching the door. So we assume that somebody's
Speaker 1: gonna come knock on the door, maybe they want to
Speaker 1: rent a room or something like that. All of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the shadow comes to the door, and it doesn't knock,
Speaker 1: it doesn't do anything. So we're like, what the hell
Speaker 1: is going on? You can see a clear outlot, We
Speaker 1: can see a clear outline of a person of a person. Um,
Speaker 1: did you could you? Could you see it? Oh? Did
Speaker 1: you hear like the footsteps too? Um? When I think
Speaker 1: back to it, I think we heard rustling, but not
Speaker 1: actual footsteps walking up. Um. So now we're we're trying
Speaker 1: to peer out from the window and you know, they're
Speaker 1: the sort of stained glasses where you can't really see
Speaker 1: and we don't see anybody there. But there is this,
Speaker 1: you know, um, the shadow. So when you're looking out
Speaker 1: the window you see nobody there, but from inside the room,
Speaker 1: what the actual about it? So there we all, you know,
Speaker 1: I excuse my French, but we all pooped our pants
Speaker 1: and ran out there as quickly as we could. So
Speaker 1: you ran to the house, right, Well, we ran out
Speaker 1: of the office and went to the house. We told
Speaker 1: you know, so you opened the front door. No, we
Speaker 1: didn't open the front door. We didn't have the courage
Speaker 1: to do that. So the shadow to stay there. Nobody
Speaker 1: opened the door. Nobody opened the door because we assumed
Speaker 1: that if it was somebody that was willing to rent
Speaker 1: a room. They would knock, or they would ring the
Speaker 1: doorbell or ring the bell to allow allow them to
Speaker 1: come in, and then when we came back, of course
Speaker 1: it was gone. So that was what if it was
Speaker 1: an actual person there, and you I don't even know
Speaker 1: because that and it could it could very well have
Speaker 1: been because I think our our view that we were
Speaker 1: looking at it obstructive, obstructive to stained glass. But I mean,
Speaker 1: you let your imagination run wild and then you're like, well,
Speaker 1: why isn't this person knocking? Maybe they weren't knocking because
Speaker 1: you're like, what am I hearing? Inside? It's absolutely dark?
Speaker 1: But I hear a bunch of like why wouldn't freaked
Speaker 1: out kids? I mean, if you're coming there to rent
Speaker 1: a room, why would you come to the moment you
Speaker 1: would knock on the door? I mean, right dark? You
Speaker 1: said it's dark inside? Absolutely Okay, I'm just started poke
Speaker 1: holes and well, okay, so that freaked you up. But
Speaker 1: that might have been a fun experience for the kids,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yeah. And of course, um we went back
Speaker 1: and relaid that to their father and he came out,
Speaker 1: and of course nobody was there at the door, So
Speaker 1: that just only added to the mystery and the curiosity
Speaker 1: and of course us being further scared. Yeah. I so
Speaker 1: I also have my own I think. I guess when
Speaker 1: you're at that age, you kind of like walk this
Speaker 1: line of fear and also like, um, you like fascination
Speaker 1: because you want to, like you want to, you want
Speaker 1: to experience it, you want to witness it. So I
Speaker 1: also have my own stupid whigi board story, which I'm
Speaker 1: going to talk about later in the podcast. I want
Speaker 1: to talk about it now. But that was it. But
Speaker 1: like I never when I was young, I never had
Speaker 1: any experience like that. Like we were, we had family,
Speaker 1: friends would tell the stories, but I had not. I
Speaker 1: had none of my own personal stories. It wasn't until
Speaker 1: I was an adult that I had some really weird,
Speaker 1: inexplicable stories that I am Listen, guys, I know this
Speaker 1: is going to complete a story. My credibility, I do
Speaker 1: not care. I am convinced it was like something supernatural,
Speaker 1: and I'll talk about that, But first I want to know,
Speaker 1: once you are not a kid anymore and you're grown up,
Speaker 1: you know, did you then have any personal experiences? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, well, first and foremost I think even as
Speaker 1: after that, I think at the age of like eleven
Speaker 1: and twelve, I was living in boarding school. Remember outside
Speaker 1: of Montreal, So, um, this was a Muslim boarding school.
Speaker 1: So if you remember that, as you mentioned, like listen,
Speaker 1: kids get together exactly. So there was always this discussion
Speaker 1: of like, okay, you know, um, they're probably Jim's among
Speaker 1: us because there was you know, they would always pass
Speaker 1: this theory along that um they too come to study.
Speaker 1: So one of the things would always be told is like,
Speaker 1: look at shoes. So if somebody comes in, because you
Speaker 1: place your shoes on on the rack or at least
Speaker 1: right in front of the entrance of the mosque, if
Speaker 1: somebody would shoes would be turned around the other way
Speaker 1: that person was it gin because they would say, I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's true or not, but they would say,
Speaker 1: the feet of the gin are backwards, um, compared to us.
Speaker 1: So even when they put them on the shoe rack,
Speaker 1: which they do because that's the appropriate thing to do,
Speaker 1: they would take off their shoes and put them on
Speaker 1: the shoe right well, they would leave them on like
Speaker 1: if so, yeah, if you saw shoes on the floor
Speaker 1: and they're pointing the opposite direction then to the entrance.
Speaker 1: Then you knew that that person was a gin. And
Speaker 1: of course the other things were like some kids would
Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know, um, because gyms are shape shifters. UM.
Speaker 1: So uh, there was just stories that would always be
Speaker 1: circulated that UM time, there was a student that was
Speaker 1: a gin and he was sitting there and reciting or
Speaker 1: reading his text, and um, one of the principal walked
Speaker 1: by and he noticed that the light was on and
Speaker 1: he looked in and there was a snake or serpent
Speaker 1: sitting there reading his text, you know, rocking back and forth.
Speaker 1: So he knocked on the door. And then you know,
Speaker 1: the student who was a gym transferring back to his
Speaker 1: human form. And then you know that this is the
Speaker 1: story that kids told each other. Yeah this is a story,
Speaker 1: but nobody actually knew that kid. Nobody actually knew that kid.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was true. I don't even
Speaker 1: if it wasn't. The school it was just you know,
Speaker 1: one of those things that were circulated. But as far
Speaker 1: as my own experiences go, I actually have had two
Speaker 1: specific experiences. I've told you about these, but I'll share
Speaker 1: it with um. You know, the podcast listeners to as well.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after the short break. I think
Speaker 1: I was. I want to say it was seventeen years old.
Speaker 1: Um here I was being in the outskirts of Toronto
Speaker 1: and a in a town called Ajax, and there too,
Speaker 1: of course, UM you know, I lived with a bunch
Speaker 1: of Muslims. So um you know that expects other students, right,
Speaker 1: exactly other students. Um. So one time, I think it
Speaker 1: was after pre dawn, um, pre dawn prayers. I'd come
Speaker 1: back to my to my room and I, um, you know,
Speaker 1: laid down, went to sleep, um, and I was awoken
Speaker 1: maybe about an hour later. All of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: felt like this pressure on my chest and it was
Speaker 1: an immense amount of pressure. All of a sudden, it
Speaker 1: just felt like my chest was constricting, and my breathing
Speaker 1: became ever more challenging. And then slowly that the progressed
Speaker 1: to like it being felt like I was being choked.
Speaker 1: Now here. I was, Yeah, I'm my eyes are awake,
Speaker 1: I'm I can't, I can't. I'm trying to yell. I
Speaker 1: can't yell. I'm trying to move my body. I can't
Speaker 1: move my body at all, and the pressure is just
Speaker 1: increasing and increasing. Thankfully, I was, I was, you know, sure,
Speaker 1: you know too as well. We're taught little um prayers
Speaker 1: to recite Um for protection. So I began to try
Speaker 1: to recite. I told Coursie, it's it's Um a verse
Speaker 1: in inside the Koraan, which is recited for protection. And
Speaker 1: I'm trying and I'm struggling. I get to a few
Speaker 1: like in your head you're trying to say, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to yell it. I'm trying to yell it and I can't.
Speaker 1: And what the other people in the room when there's nobody, No,
Speaker 1: this was just my own in my own dorm um.
Speaker 1: So here I am. I'm trying to move, wiggle me
Speaker 1: my way out of this um, trying to just scream
Speaker 1: for help, and nothing's not My body is not moving,
Speaker 1: my mouth is not making or I'm not able to
Speaker 1: make a sound. But I still try to recite this
Speaker 1: verse and you know, slowly, slowly I'm trying to And
Speaker 1: as I continue to recite it, the pressure is increasing,
Speaker 1: which is trying to prevent me to recite it. But
Speaker 1: I work my way through it. Could you see anything
Speaker 1: is happening? No, it was it dark in the room. No,
Speaker 1: it was actually because it's after I mean after that
Speaker 1: morning morning sunrise. It was daylight. It wasn't it wasn't
Speaker 1: dark in the room at all. But I finally am
Speaker 1: able to with a great amount of struggle, I'm able
Speaker 1: to recite um the whole prayer. And just as I
Speaker 1: finished reciting, I see like this disbursement of light, like
Speaker 1: a burst of light, like a burst of light, and
Speaker 1: then my the the it feels like my neck is released,
Speaker 1: the body, the weight is lifted off my shoulder, and
Speaker 1: the the the entity I feel which it was, is
Speaker 1: no longer present in the room. Um. So that was
Speaker 1: my first experience that. Could you tell anybody? Yeah? Right away?
Speaker 1: I told that my close friend and he mentioned that
Speaker 1: somebody else had told him that that happened to him
Speaker 1: too as well. And pre you scared? I I was
Speaker 1: a I was. I was a little taken back, but
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wasn't freaked out. I was just like,
Speaker 1: what the heck is this? And one of my friends,
Speaker 1: I'm the friend that I told me. I told he
Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe it might have been a female
Speaker 1: jin who likes you. Man, So um, next time, that's
Speaker 1: so exciting for a teenage boy. I can't get me
Speaker 1: a real girl, I can get a gin noo. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: so I think the biggest thing when you're like, well
Speaker 1: bring it out on, can we get a second date? Um?
Speaker 1: But no, I think I was. I mean, I wasn't
Speaker 1: really frightened, but it was definitely alarmed. Um. And so
Speaker 1: from that moment not I would just always make sure
Speaker 1: that I was reciting my prayer, prayers for protection before
Speaker 1: I went to sleep and when I woke up and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But then I had, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: the same incident that happened a second time. I think
Speaker 1: I want to say about it a year or change later.
Speaker 1: What happens is now I'm sleeping. This is that Um,
Speaker 1: this is around four o'clock at night. I'm sleeping in
Speaker 1: the same house, in a in a different dorm room. Um,
Speaker 1: and the same thing happens to me again. And all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, UM, my chest is constricted. There's a
Speaker 1: heavy it feels like a heavyweight on my chest. My
Speaker 1: throat is being choked, it feels that way. Um, I
Speaker 1: can't scream. And there was somebody I think, sleeping in
Speaker 1: the next bed, but I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't
Speaker 1: I couldn't make a sound, um, you know, to try
Speaker 1: to call for help. I couldn't move my body as
Speaker 1: much as I tried to with a lot of the hold.
Speaker 1: It just seemed like, um, I had no power over it.
Speaker 1: So then again, I do you feel like in that moment,
Speaker 1: because I've read about this, and you know, people know
Speaker 1: this is sleep paralysis, right, it's a very common, very common.
Speaker 1: It's actually quite a common experience. But people to report
Speaker 1: that they literally in those moments feel like they're going
Speaker 1: to die. Yeah, and I felt that way. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing, like, see, I think where what's some of
Speaker 1: these things can't be explained in from a scientific perspective?
Speaker 1: And I'm doing quotes air quotes, yeah, because science needs
Speaker 1: to be an air quotes. No, please do not put
Speaker 1: science and air quotes. Put science and air quotes. But
Speaker 1: I'm saying in this home, yes we do. When it
Speaker 1: relates to gin and supernaturals, I feel there are science
Speaker 1: can explain everything right exactly for for I mean at
Speaker 1: least now I means science always is progressing and involving.
Speaker 1: But um, I feel as it relates to gin, um,
Speaker 1: maybe there might be a gap at this point in time.
Speaker 1: So I know some people say, oh, well, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: had that in c paralysis, but um, maybe that's science
Speaker 1: way of explaining such a supernatural experience at this point
Speaker 1: in time. Yeah, it could be. Okay, So you were
Speaker 1: so in the second instance, again, what happened? Did you
Speaker 1: do the same thing where you try to recite the
Speaker 1: prayer and yeah, so there again, I you know, struggled,
Speaker 1: I mean exerted as much effort as I could to
Speaker 1: recite that, um, the prayer for protection and as the
Speaker 1: same way, just as I completed the last you know word,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I saw burst to light and
Speaker 1: the weight was lifted off my my chest. Was this
Speaker 1: also with the sun out like it was the daytime
Speaker 1: this time it was at night and in the night
Speaker 1: you saw a burst of light. It's like a flash
Speaker 1: of light. Are you positive you're awake in both these experiences?
Speaker 1: I'm positive because I can. I mean I got up
Speaker 1: right after it, sat up. Yeah, I sat up, and
Speaker 1: then I was like, what the hell is going on?
Speaker 1: I was freaked out. So I mean I got up,
Speaker 1: and you know, I just started reciting, you know, started
Speaker 1: reciting a litany of prayers just for protection. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. I mean my eyes were wide open um
Speaker 1: in both both circumstances, so my eyes weren't closed at all. Um,
Speaker 1: nor was I imagine I think there was something like
Speaker 1: in that in that place, like in dorm. I think
Speaker 1: it's fair to say. I mean, I would hear from
Speaker 1: so many people and and was your system free of
Speaker 1: any psychedelic substances? Yeah? No, I was taking shrooms and
Speaker 1: I was kidding. No, of course, I was seventeen years old,
Speaker 1: sixteen years old, I was. I was free from any
Speaker 1: intoxication or any psychedelic I guess substances. Um. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean in both circumstances. And the reason why it's sort
Speaker 1: of um, I felt that way because I then passed,
Speaker 1: I mean my friend reaffirming that had happened to somebody else.
Speaker 1: And then later on in life. Um. You know, many
Speaker 1: people have told me that they've had that same type
Speaker 1: of experience too as well. Lady Jinn, trying to get
Speaker 1: with everybody. You know, it's interesting, Um, I many of
Speaker 1: the in fact, many of the accounts I've heard of
Speaker 1: read happened. It seems to happen more with men. It
Speaker 1: actually does seem to have more with men than women,
Speaker 1: and I wonder what that's about. Um, so was that
Speaker 1: it that those two times, those that happened, those were
Speaker 1: the two times that had actually happened to me where
Speaker 1: I feel they were supernatural Jane experiences. And you after
Speaker 1: I think I remember telling you this in the past,
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, you know, it could be c paralysis.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, it's really well, Jane can causely paralysis, right,
Speaker 1: I mean like, I'm not saying that they can't, but right, well, okay,
Speaker 1: so that's interesting. So you were like seventeen or eighteen
Speaker 1: the last time you had one of these experiences, but
Speaker 1: the rest of your adult life even and you're like,
Speaker 1: how do you know forty forty one? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I'm turning forty one. Yeah, you'll be turning forty one
Speaker 1: this year. So in all these years you haven't had
Speaker 1: another experience. Why do you think that is? I think
Speaker 1: I met you and you you've sort of warned them off.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's good. But so I'll tell you about my experiences.
Speaker 1: I'll tell the listeners about my experiences. And I've told
Speaker 1: you about this again. I didn't grow up in a house.
Speaker 1: I mean even now when I've asked my dad as
Speaker 1: I was producing this podcast, I was like, Woul do
Speaker 1: you have any gin stories. He's like no. I was like,
Speaker 1: you were born before the creation of Pakistan. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: you know, you were raised in on grounds that probably
Speaker 1: like ancient, ancient grounds you've never had. I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, what about your family, your father? He's
Speaker 1: like no. I was like why not? He was like,
Speaker 1: don't you believe jenn exists? He's like, yeah, they of
Speaker 1: course we're supposed to believe it. Um but he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess I don't really think about that stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe if you are more receptive and open
Speaker 1: and thinking about it, then you're going to have more experiences.
Speaker 1: I guess maybe. But um so, I again, I didn't
Speaker 1: have that, and I always it's not that I didn't
Speaker 1: believe it. I did believe it. I've always believed in
Speaker 1: things that I cannot see. Obviously, we are people of faith,
Speaker 1: so we believe in God. We cannot see God, we
Speaker 1: can't see angels, we can't see other things that we
Speaker 1: still are part of our creed right. Um Now, some
Speaker 1: people obviously will say, well, some things are literal and
Speaker 1: some are figurative. But anyhow, the point is we've been
Speaker 1: taught that to the general this is not figurative. It
Speaker 1: was really But so the first time I had an experience.
Speaker 1: So here's what happened. I went to I visited mankasan Um.
Speaker 1: This happened about about twenty years ago. No, about seventeen
Speaker 1: years ago. I visited bak Son and I visited like
Speaker 1: this area up in the hills called Muddy There's a
Speaker 1: lot of antique shops up there, and I bought this.
Speaker 1: It looked like a silver kind of engraved picture, and
Speaker 1: it was a picture of like a man playing a
Speaker 1: flute and a woman. It's some kind of romantic scene.
Speaker 1: It's supposed to illustrate something like a roomy poem or something.
Speaker 1: I don't remember the history behind. It's beautiful engraving. And
Speaker 1: I brought it back and man, this is a time
Speaker 1: at which I had recently become a single parent. I
Speaker 1: was I had gotten divorced, moved into a condo your
Speaker 1: friends my friends condor that I was renting from her.
Speaker 1: It was the first time I was kind of actually
Speaker 1: living on my own um since like for many years.
Speaker 1: And so what happened was I. She had a kitchen counter,
Speaker 1: a counter, you know, one of those counters. I faced
Speaker 1: out of the kitchen SEQ put stools on the other side.
Speaker 1: So I had propped this engraving up, which is it
Speaker 1: was maybe like an nine by twelve I don't know,
Speaker 1: something like that, not huge up against um, like on
Speaker 1: one end of the counter, up against the wall or
Speaker 1: one side of it. And every so often it would
Speaker 1: just keep it would just like slam down, right. I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, well, maybe it's like a it's like
Speaker 1: a granite countertop. Maybe it's slippery. So I would like
Speaker 1: put things in front of it, like candles and things
Speaker 1: to hold it up, and it would still go boom,
Speaker 1: and it was slammed down over and over again. It
Speaker 1: wouldn't slip, it would actually fall. It would just fall
Speaker 1: on his face. It would just fall on his face,
Speaker 1: like over and over. Even it was leaning backwards. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I was like, well, that's weird now, but that
Speaker 1: wasn't so, I mean, that didn't freak me out so
Speaker 1: much because I'm like, I don't know, maybe something's happening here. Um.
Speaker 1: At the same time, I had bought from some shop,
Speaker 1: you know the Rodan's the Thinker, that really famous statue
Speaker 1: of a and I had this. I had a little
Speaker 1: replicuff the Thinker. It was all it was made of
Speaker 1: black marble or black something. And my mom was like,
Speaker 1: get that little thing out of this, like that looks
Speaker 1: like it's like some kind of a little demon idol.
Speaker 1: I get it out of your I was like, it's
Speaker 1: like a claw sickle, what else sculpture. She was convinced
Speaker 1: that thing was gonna hot me. But so anyhow, nothing happens.
Speaker 1: And then um, I had a cousin who came from Bakastan.
Speaker 1: She was like sixteen years old, and um, she started
Speaker 1: she was living with me while her parents were like
Speaker 1: trying to find a place and stuff and trying to
Speaker 1: get on their feet. She lived with me maybe like
Speaker 1: four or five months. So it was me, her and
Speaker 1: then my daughter, who was like I think four or five,
Speaker 1: maybe six at the time, I can't remember. Um what
Speaker 1: happened was one night I made meatballs for dinner. I
Speaker 1: remember this, made meatballs for dinner. We're having meatballs, and
Speaker 1: suddenly my cousin bites into a meat ball and an
Speaker 1: entire human tooth that's insane comes out. Of the meat ball. Now, look,
Speaker 1: I had this meat ball. It wasn't like I just
Speaker 1: took the meat I cat from the store shaped it
Speaker 1: into balls like I mixed it. It was not her tooth.
Speaker 1: It was nobody's tooth. Um. I had mixed the meat.
Speaker 1: I had added spices to it and onion to it.
Speaker 1: You know how we make our bokasani meatballs, right, it
Speaker 1: had So I'm like, how did that even get past me? First,
Speaker 1: all while I was making it. But also we're in
Speaker 1: the heck and it was like a human too it
Speaker 1: so again, now this could be the butcher's too, I
Speaker 1: don't know, or a cow. It wasn't that big. It
Speaker 1: was an actual human tool. So that was really weird.
Speaker 1: But here's the part where I was like, I am
Speaker 1: definitely like, something's definitely happening. What happened one morning was
Speaker 1: every morning my daughter, I would drop off my daughter,
Speaker 1: yes she was like six. Every morning I drop off
Speaker 1: my daughter and my cousin. They had enrolled her at
Speaker 1: the same school as my daughter dropped him off at school,
Speaker 1: I come back, I get ready, and then I'd drive
Speaker 1: into d C. I lived in Virginia. I drive into
Speaker 1: DC for work because that would give me a little
Speaker 1: more time, and they had to be at school earlier.
Speaker 1: So one morning, I'm sitting on the sofa and this
Speaker 1: was back in the day when people used calling cards
Speaker 1: to make international phone calls. I had a calling card.
Speaker 1: I was trying to call my uncle in Bukasan, and
Speaker 1: so it's like six thirty or seven am, and I'm
Speaker 1: trying to make it because it's like, that's the timing
Speaker 1: is right, and you got a time the calls right, yeah,
Speaker 1: ten twelve hour different. And I'm like, well, I can't
Speaker 1: get through, and I'm called link to the girls. I'm
Speaker 1: sitting on the sofa that's right by the front door.
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, girls, you know what, let's go.
Speaker 1: We don't have time. And I put the calling card
Speaker 1: on the phone down on the sofa and I thought,
Speaker 1: I'll come back and I will make the call. And
Speaker 1: we left, and in front of me, my daughter left,
Speaker 1: my cousin left. I walked out behind them, I locked
Speaker 1: the door, I went and I dropped him off. I
Speaker 1: was back home in about ten minutes. And when I
Speaker 1: walked in the door, I just I will never I
Speaker 1: opened the door with my right hand. I stepped inside
Speaker 1: the sofas to my left. I looked down to the
Speaker 1: sofa and that calling card had been shredded into tiny
Speaker 1: little bits. Now, first of all, calling cards have like
Speaker 1: this little coating on them. Yeah, it is hard, and
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, human hands could not have shredded that thing.
Speaker 1: It wasn't tiny little like it wasn't like ripped in
Speaker 1: like four pieces. It was like a little pile of
Speaker 1: shredded calling card next to the phone. And I was like,
Speaker 1: what the hell just happened. I was gone for ten minutes,
Speaker 1: and then I just kind of started putting the pieces together.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that thing keeps falling and this is happening
Speaker 1: in human too. Then, um, so my mom, I said.
Speaker 1: I was like, then I was convinced. I told the
Speaker 1: story to um one of my friends and my co
Speaker 1: host from Undisclosed and Susan Simpson, and she's like, Robbie,
Speaker 1: I'm more terrified by the fact that somebody broke into
Speaker 1: your house while you're go and they were probably hiding
Speaker 1: in the closet. I'm like, if somebody broken into my house,
Speaker 1: why would they do that? Of all things, why would
Speaker 1: it be like this is what I'm gonna do? Are
Speaker 1: they running around with a shredder, like what's going on here?
Speaker 1: Like human hands couldn't do it. So I was then
Speaker 1: convinced that something's happening now. I told my mom and
Speaker 1: my mom was like, oh, yeah, definitely, it's that little
Speaker 1: black thinker guy. You have a little black Yeah. So
Speaker 1: she's like, this is what you do. She's like, you
Speaker 1: tell that you have to assert yourself and you have
Speaker 1: to tell that jin that that is your home and
Speaker 1: that you believe in God and you cannot be scared
Speaker 1: out of there. And I did it. I stood up
Speaker 1: there a couple of times on different nights and I said,
Speaker 1: my name is Roberta. I'm a Muslim. I am not
Speaker 1: scared of you. This is my home. I command you
Speaker 1: to get out, leave me alone. Sounds like what's that
Speaker 1: movie Princess Pride. He's like where he's like, my name
Speaker 1: is um. I forget what he says, and he says
Speaker 1: prepared to die. I don't even know then, I don't.
Speaker 1: I really don't. Well, I don't know if it worked
Speaker 1: or not, because the truth is I only had a
Speaker 1: six month lease, and I like, I think that's a
Speaker 1: name or something like that. I had a six month
Speaker 1: lease and I left, and so I don't know what happened,
Speaker 1: But honestly, I know these were not frightening experiences. But
Speaker 1: for the most part, when people talk about like the
Speaker 1: experiences that are inexplicable, it's usually, um, it's not stuff
Speaker 1: that's over terrifying. It's not like these If these beings
Speaker 1: are messing with you, they're not trying to terrify. It's
Speaker 1: almost like the kind of showing you when we're here, right.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's interesting that you mentioned that. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of a story of my friends. Uh. They
Speaker 1: moved from Toronto and went to good Draft in India. UM,
Speaker 1: and they did a reverse immigration. Well yeah, I think
Speaker 1: they spent a few years. They're just trying to culture
Speaker 1: their kids, um and the and or at least expose
Speaker 1: your kids to the Indian culture. UM. So what happened
Speaker 1: is that they wanted to find a house. I was
Speaker 1: close to the school that their kids are going to
Speaker 1: be attending, and they found that there was one house
Speaker 1: that was empty and nobody would rent it. And so
Speaker 1: they were like, well why why you know, they asked
Speaker 1: around and people like, oh, no, that's the house with
Speaker 1: Jin's in it. That's why nobody rents it. So the father,
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a jeef. And when I knew him,
Speaker 1: he was like, all right, well whatever, He's like, he's close.
Speaker 1: He's like, this is prime real estate, so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get I'm gonna take this house. So um. What happens
Speaker 1: is that he goes into the house and he grabs
Speaker 1: a big staff and he walks into the house and
Speaker 1: he says, my name is and I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say the name. My name is. I hear x x
Speaker 1: y Z, and I'm a I'm a I'm a believer
Speaker 1: in God, and I'm a follower of the problems. And
Speaker 1: this will be the place that I live. You shall
Speaker 1: not touch my family or bother them, and if you do,
Speaker 1: I will beat you the hell out of this house.
Speaker 1: And um, they say that this family any side one year,
Speaker 1: Lisa got a multi year because it was a good deal. Um.
Speaker 1: But what happened was that his sons would tell me,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, they would hear running on sort
Speaker 1: of the attic um, and every so often they would
Speaker 1: see like, um, maybe a baby gin or something like that.
Speaker 1: Um um. But they never never, never had any any
Speaker 1: problems with it. So that to live together, um, and
Speaker 1: we're able to sort of settle their differences and live
Speaker 1: in the same place. It was that stuff. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess so. I mean, but I think that's kind of
Speaker 1: like how your mother said, right, well, look um in
Speaker 1: the time that I because I was also a little
Speaker 1: bit worried about the fact that I'm like, am I
Speaker 1: like literally summoning the gin by or I have all
Speaker 1: these gin books. I've got a whole stack of gin
Speaker 1: books now in our bedroom, all places I'm reading about this.
Speaker 1: I've got like and then you had that what was
Speaker 1: that little book about how to summon Effreet and all
Speaker 1: these other demons? Yes, I do, I have a summing.
Speaker 1: I have all kinds of something burn that we can't
Speaker 1: burn it right, not yet. Um, I still need it.
Speaker 1: But the thing is like, so far, I feel like
Speaker 1: we're okay, nothing's happened. He's looking our God willing. Let's
Speaker 1: let's hope it stays that way. We'll continue to recite
Speaker 1: our prayers in the litany of I'll let you recite
Speaker 1: them and blow on me and everything. And I'm okay.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm one of those people who would, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I remember when I was younger, I wanted
Speaker 1: to be hypnotized, and I couldn't. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: too much of a like a cynic. I'm not like
Speaker 1: I don't know, my veils not thin enough, like they
Speaker 1: just won't come to me. Yeah maybe maybe maybe, but
Speaker 1: I don't think you want to sort of tempt them
Speaker 1: in that fashion as well, where you're like, I don't
Speaker 1: think they'll come to me. Now I've said it out loud. Well,
Speaker 1: if they do, I will definitely podcast about it. Yeah. Well, hey, great,
Speaker 1: great way to share that story, I guess. All right, Okay,
Speaker 1: well that's it. I think for our first episode, I
Speaker 1: have a really great interview with UM Professor Ali Alumi,
Speaker 1: who is like he knows everything about GIN inside now.
Speaker 1: He is like a scholar and expert. It's a fantastic conversation,
Speaker 1: so definitely to it in for that and UM of course,
Speaker 1: check out the rest of the series. Stay safe, don't
Speaker 1: pee under a tree, dry your hair for you go out,
Speaker 1: cover your hair. All right, guys, thanks, thanks for fun.
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Now,
Speaker 1: there are as many people in the world with Jin
Speaker 1: stories as there are GIN, so if you have one
Speaker 1: you'd like to share, make sure to email it to
Speaker 1: me at the Hidden Gin at gmail dot com. That's
Speaker 1: the Hidden Gin. Th H E H I D D
Speaker 1: E N d J I n n at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: And until next time, remember we are not alone. The
Speaker 1: Hidden Gin is a production of I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written
Speaker 1: and hosted by Robbiah Chaudrey and produced by Miranda Hawkins
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams,
Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. Our theme song was created by Patrick Quartets.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.