WEBVTT - Origin Story 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.520 Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:30.520 Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Hi, and 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.120 welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.159 The interviews in these episodes, you'll hear me talk to 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.479 people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.800 are drawn to the stories of Gin, and draw lessons 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:49.480 from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists, 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.040 and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.840 how and why this series came about in a very 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:00.680 personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy. 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.280 All Right, so I'm pretty excited. I think this is 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.039 the first time I've ever recorded any kind of podcast 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.320 with my husband. Air Faun, isn't that right? Correct? That 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.800 correct rates five years and made it finally you've made it. Well, 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.120 Welcome to the show Air Fun Disease. Thank you very much. Okay, 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:21.800 So for for this episode, what I wanted to do 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:23.360 is I want to talk a little bit about how 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.680 this show came about, and then you and I are 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.360 going to have a conversation about like what it was 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.920 like for us growing up with these stories, any experiences 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:36.920 we've had Okay, So people who know me know that 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.400 I'm a lawyer. I have a criminal justice podcast undisclosed. 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.759 A lot of people know um me, probably just through 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.959 cereal and a non story and stuff. But I am 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.800 a box sunny American Muslim. I fun, are you a 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:54.560 box any American Muslim? Canadian? Close enough? Almost made it 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:56.640 to the Promised Land? Well, I mean I think it's 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.720 a step above America. Right, Well, things are different now, 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.680 things have changed since we got married. But anyway, um so, 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.560 I what happened was this. I was a big fan of, 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:07.520 and I still I'm a big fan of the show 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.320 Lore by Aaron Manki. And a few years ago I 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.080 had the pleasure of meeting Aaron Mankey. I think my daughter, 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.440 my middle daughter was with me at the time at 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.760 like a podcast movement conference and she was fan girling. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:21.600 I was fan girling who took pictures with him. I 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:23.440 talked to him about it, and I told him, you know, 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.720 I just love folklore. I love supernatural stuff. It's been 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.360 stuff I've been like reading about and listening to, like 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.639 well reading about since I was a kid. And then 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.840 I asked him, I said, have you ever considered like 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.200 for flore To branch out of like European and North 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.240 American folklore, like there's a whole world of full floor 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.160 and all kinds of things. Uh And he said no. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:47.480 And he said no because I wouldn't want to like 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.079 dabble into cultures and try to understand like they're out 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:51.880 like they're not mine, like he's you know, and I 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:57.120 get that. I think that was really smart. Yeah, it's 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.280 respectful of him. So what happened was like a year 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.919 or two ago, spy and why anyway? I told him, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.760 I said, there's this entire world of beings called the Gin. 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.080 And he's like, I don't know what that is. I said, well, 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.840 you've heard of the genies, like right, ad um? And 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.000 I explained to him kind of like the background and 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:14.960 how Muslims are obsessed with it. And every time we 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.519 get together we swapped Gin stories. But um, so a 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:19.079 year or two goes by, I can't remember how long, 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.720 and suddenly he reaches out and said, hey, I am 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.280 producing a whole slate of shows um that are like 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.240 similarly themed to lore for I Heeart Media. Would you 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:32.160 like to produce a podcast about the Gin? Your version 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:36.400 of inception? Is it? My version of how you sort 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.720 of planted the seed. Right, I don't remember inception well enough. 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.920 I don't. I don't remember it well enough. All right, 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:48.320 So I remember when I I was immediately excited and 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:50.720 then I told you that about this. What was your 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:52.960 first reaction? Well, I was excited too as well. I 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.680 think it's I mean, it's definitely unique something that I 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.360 feel there's a thirst four within them with some community, 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.080 I think exposing it to the broader community that they 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.080 too would enjoy something like this. Okay, that is not 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:08.200 the reaction I remember. I remember you saying, we're gonna 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.680 get haunted, We're gonna get possessed. You do not talk 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.000 with the gin. You do not, You can't. Yeah, it's 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.479 that's true too. It's like Voldemort. You know, you don't 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.279 mention the name. It's it's it's it's something that you avoid, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.880 especially growing up in these families. I mean, remember this 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.040 was something. I'm sure you remember it too with your 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.640 parents too as well. It's like, don't talk about it, um, 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:31.919 but it's it's kind of the thing. I had a 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:33.640 bit of a different experience with my family. Well, well 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:35.279 here's the Okay, we'll get into that in a second. 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:40.880 But I, um, said yes, even I said I will 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:45.240 risk the possession because I figured, like, if on my 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.480 husband he's always like you're always praying and stuff, I'm like, 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:52.520 we'll be okay, um, also my prayers and let's do 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:54.839 this um. And the other thing was I had spent 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.000 like four or five years working really really hard on 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.880 like wrongful conviction stuff and ring the other book, and 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.080 was I almost wanted like a creative project that would 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.640 be less stressful, although it was equally stressful. If now 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.600 more it was pretty stressful. Yeah, it's been a it's 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.600 been a long year because I spent this whole year 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.600 pretty much scripting this and researching this podcast. So all right, 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.720 so now let's regress into our childhood. So I grew 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.880 up in like the DC area mostly, and if I 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:26.039 grew up were Toronto, Canada and parts of parts. Actually 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.000 a few years I lived right outside Montreal in a 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:34.440 place called Cornwall. So I want to ask you what 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.719 is your earliest kind of memory around You said that 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.279 your parents would say, don't talk with the gin. Yeah, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.039 that I mean, so the prompt was don't talk about it. 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.480 And furthermore than it was like don't go outside and 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.839 late at night don't hang around trees, don't urinate on 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.640 trees if you're if you're a girl, like they would 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.360 tell my sisters, don't go up with wet hair after 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.800 dark by trees because there are so many I guess 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.200 experiences that they heard about um when they were growing 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.680 up where people were possessed in those in those circumstances. 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.200 So and additionally, it was mentioning it. Don't mention it 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.080 because you then sort of attracted. It's like the law 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.160 of attraction. You mentioned Jin, and all of a sudden 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:23.160 you might be haunted by some so, uh, you know 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.320 for us as as kids growing up. But did your 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.440 parents ever say to you, don't do this because we 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.800 have we have experienced with jin. We know what's like, 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.560 we've been like, have have any of your elders told 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.360 you Jin stories they've experienced? No? No, No, I mean, 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.039 I mean I'm sure you know growing up in the 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.880 family family, there wasn't much of that type of conversation. 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:45.760 It was just like, don't do this, and I don't 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.400 ask questions, right, it was like I know better. So 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:52.599 we extrapolated from that that maybe they had some experiences, 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:54.680 and then I think my mother would sometimes you know, 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.440 past questions, I mean past comments about Oh I knew 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:00.760 this girl growing up and she would go out with 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.680 her hair open and wet after dark, and she just 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.760 went bogg love the hair, I guess, so I guess 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.960 they love the Muslim hair, Muslim wet hair. The question remains, yes, 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.840 that how came all these other people who are not 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.800 Muslim go out at night? Maybe the hair is not wet. 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.120 Maybe maybe I think I think that the key. I 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.720 think maybe the the motivaane factor is taking a shower 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.440 with wet hair or something like that. UM So, if 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.080 your hair isn't washed, or if it's filthy, then maybe 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:34.080 this was filthy. It's filthy. Warning out there with filthy 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.840 hair you not washed, don't worry. Now, I was kidding. 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.520 But I think the urine aspect of it is that 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.360 you know, and you speak about this in the podcast. 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.560 UM Gin's are made from fire, right, so dousing them 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:52.880 with urine or any water is in a way detrimental 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.840 for them. And I've heard from other people where if 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.120 you do do that, there are times gins can be 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:03.840 killed because that's the exposure to water. So the family 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.480 or the relative of that gener will then attack you. 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:11.400 Um because of that injuring them. Yeah, so let me 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.760 ask you, do to what extent do you believe? Okay, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.080 so here's the deal with my family. My parents never 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.080 talked about We just didn't talk about supernatural still, like 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:21.680 it wasn't a thing, right, We didn't talk about There 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:23.280 are some families where they really do talk a lot 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.840 about this. We didn't. It was just like, and my 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.320 mother never would say, don't go out because they don't 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.520 go out at night with your hair open because of gin. 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.839 She would just say for me and my sister, she 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.000 would said, don't go out after dark, um without covering 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.760 your head, and you know, And it was like, what, 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.840 why what is that about? Because I mean, as a Muslim, 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:45.640 I do cover my head now, but I didn't growing up. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:47.720 I didn't start that like Beau, I was thirty years old. 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:49.640 That was totally something I did my own. But growing 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:51.160 up I didn't do it. My mother didn't do it. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.120 But I was like, why is this thing like about 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.320 just in the dark? Right? Um? I don't remember if 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.080 there was much said about trees. So my question is, 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.160 do you have to what extent do you think it's 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:05.720 kind of like just a control mechanism because even even 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:07.679 the urinating under the trees. I'm not saying that the 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.720 full core doesn't exist. It does exist. Like for there 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.960 are stories that go back hundreds may thousands of years, 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.680 not just in Muslim tradition and other tradition, to like 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.640 in Jewish treation and other tradition. Um would let say 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:23.719 that they are these demons and entities that occupy certain trees. Um. 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:27.080 But also, hello, you know, urinating in a tree, like 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.160 in public is just generally kind of gross and disrespectful, 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.240 so maybe it was one way also, well, I mean 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.280 I don't know, I mean because if you if you know, 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.959 I mean you know, um, and in the pins or 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.200 in the villages, people go out into the to the 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.800 the the farms or to the open land to urinate. 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.240 So I'm not sure how. Yeah, but you know, here's 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:51.800 the thing. Though it's not usually open. It'll be like 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.000 in a field, so nobody can really see you, and 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.640 it's not under a tree necessarily, so you're it's kind 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:58.680 of private in a way even though it's and they 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:00.520 have designated areas where they that they got to go 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.480 somewhere if they don't have a outhouse writing. But well, okay, 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.080 so let me ask you this, Um, so your parents aside? 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:12.720 What about like you grew up around a lot of family, right, yeah, so, um, 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.960 that was definitely something we've spoke about, especially when cousins 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.400 would get together. A lot of cousins we did, um 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.920 so ghost stories and jin stories and people would you know, 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.079 hear from somebody else and then it would be passed on. Okay, 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.160 So was there ever a point like you guys um 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:32.000 tried to like summon a gin? You know there was, 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:37.080 I mean, we we tried exactly, but we actually went 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.760 through out of a Luiji board instead. So we we 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.760 assumed that it would be summoning spirits or jins or 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:48.040 something like that. But um, it was definitely who was it? 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.480 Who was there? So was my my sister, my older sister, 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.840 my brother, and then my a few of my cousins 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.440 we had gotten together. I think I was probably I 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.400 want to say it was about six for seven. You 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:02.960 didn't go run and tell your parents because you know 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.760 they're freaking out though, because I mean, I mean I 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.920 know I didn't of course. I mean there's mom's a word, right, 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:11.760 and you don't want to be invited back to the party. 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.960 So um, you know, of course they didn't mention anything 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.000 to my parents, but um, yeah, so that was kind 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.840 of like the first sort of exposure to it. Um, 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.680 nothing really happened. And I think, you know, wegi boards, 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.400 there's so much people say that. Sometimes it's so you 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.600 tried it one time, but you do like turn off 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.040 the lights and turn off the lights. We created a 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.680 makeshift wigi board and oh you don't even get like 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:42.000 a real one. Did you just make a paper remember correctly? 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.760 And then um, I think somewhere along that time we 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:46.800 also did. That's why it didn't work, do you think 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:51.280 so maybe maybe? Um? And then I think along that 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.680 time we also had um we were we were into 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.760 this Bloody Marry. Do you remember Bloody Mary. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.360 Bloody Mary. Did you ever do it? I want to 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.440 say I did, but I think I was too scared. 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.520 I was so young, and the stories that you know, 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.880 my cousins were telling me, or my my sister and 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.120 my brother were saying it just really freaked me out. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.440 They did do it, I want to say they did? Yeah, 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.800 I think, um, I did once. And you know what, 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.200 it is absolutely an optical effect. Look, you're in the dark, 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:25.079 you're spinning around, you flip on the light's real quick, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.640 you're gonna see something like your eyes are not quite focused, right. 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.640 I remember there being something weird. I didn't do like 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.160 a bloody looking for a girl standing behind me or 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.319 anything like that profound, but there was something. And then 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.000 I ran out of the bathroom and I was like, 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:39.960 I'm just not gonna do this again, Like, even if 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:41.120 I see her, what am I going to get out 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.360 of it? What's the point of this? Right? Right? Right? 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.200 And and and I think it's just the curiosity of 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.720 you know, children, Just that's really true. I mean, you're here, 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:51.520 So whose idea was it? Like? Who want to do it? 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.400 Your sisters are like, I think it was my cousin's. Um. 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.040 So my cousins, UM, I think they might have been 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.400 a little more more braver, more sort of had more 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.160 experiences with with these types of stories. So whenever we 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.439 visit them, they would have, you know, a ray of 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:10.320 stories that they would be just telling us. And this 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.160 was one of the experiences that they wanted to share 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:13.960 with us. I think they may have tried it with 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.040 their friends, um, and it just seemed like a good 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.000 exercise to do with the cousins. When we all got 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.080 together do you remember and like I remember and one 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.760 of the episodes, I'll talk about it, so I won't 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.320 talk about it here. But um there was one story, 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.200 a gen story that if this family friends they told 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:30.920 us that stuck with me, Like growing up, do you 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:32.559 remember any of like you said, your cousins tell you 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.640 a lot of stories, was any story that really particularly 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:40.000 stuck with you? Well? Um so, my cousins and Niagara Falls. Uh. 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.960 They owned a motel. So this was way back in 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:47.760 like nineteen eighties or something like that. Um So they 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:52.800 would have a lot of experiences um and the supposedly 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:58.040 the motel was built upon UM I think um a battlefield, 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.120 like an old battlefield. It was like the British and 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:05.400 fighting the the first nations. Um so. Uh. They would 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.160 have these experiences where a specific room light would turn on, 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.120 um and then they'd go turn it off, and then 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.080 then that light would turn on again, or they would 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.160 hear a television and then those are back in the day. 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.000 It wasn't like the televisions where we had to remote. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.400 It was those you know televisions where you'd pulled the 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.800 nozzle and then change the channel, click click, you have 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.160 the knob and then you you changed and you clicked 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.040 with what was a uh F and VHF. I think 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.440 back in the day UM so so so somebody would 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.880 actually have to pull the knob for it to turn on. 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.240 It's not like and so so they would just be 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.160 like it would be the locked motel room and they 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:43.680 would hear the TV turn on. All of a sudden, 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.080 they hear the TV turn on. And there was this 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.680 UM experience, I think the one story where they mentioned 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:54.160 that behind UM the motel they ended up finding like 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.800 stairs that were leading down into some sort of um 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.840 I guess a seller and they had seen it before UM. 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.640 And they mentioned that their father and their uncle ended 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.040 up going down there. The only thing that they meant, 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.640 they related back to us was that they saw what 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.640 it looked like to them was dried blood going down 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.200 the stairs, UM two kids. It was probably probably could 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.280 have could have been like maybe somebody dropped in some 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:24.680 soda or something of that nature. Yeah, right. But what 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.720 they did say is that after their father and uncle 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:30.880 went down there, they still all the kids do not 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.120 go down there. So that just of course created you 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.120 know that for their curiosity. What what are they telling 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.640 us not to see down there? Um, so did the 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.400 kids go down there? No, they really no, No, I 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.960 think that would be like, okay, we absolutely have right. 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:47.560 It seemed like a good experience with with all your 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.520 cousins because now you have a pack to go with you. 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.200 Do they still have motelity, No, it's not. Actually I 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:53.800 don't know if the motel is still there, but they 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.600 saw that. Yeah, it would be nice. You know. There 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.960 was an experience that I think the first actual experience 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:05.440 was there Niagara Falls. So, um, um, you know their house, 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.640 the front portion of it was actually an office, the 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:12.240 motel office. Um. So we were hanging around in the 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.240 front portion of that of the house, and what happens 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.360 is that all of a sudden we see, um, some 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:23.320 like a shadow walking up to the door. Um. Now, 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.480 so we're expecting maybe are you in the office. Yeah, 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:27.520 we're in the office. We're just playing with the lights off, 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.720 just messing around in the office with the lights off. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.760 And then all of a sudden we see the shadow 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.440 that is approaching the door. So we assume that somebody's 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:38.160 gonna come knock on the door, maybe they want to 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:39.920 rent a room or something like that. All of a sudden, 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.960 the shadow comes to the door, and it doesn't knock, 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.880 it doesn't do anything. So we're like, what the hell 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.280 is going on? You can see a clear outlot, We 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.000 can see a clear outline of a person of a person. Um, 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:53.920 did you could you? Could you see it? Oh? Did 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:58.240 you hear like the footsteps too? Um? When I think 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.200 back to it, I think we heard rustling, but not 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.160 actual footsteps walking up. Um. So now we're we're trying 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.840 to peer out from the window and you know, they're 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.560 the sort of stained glasses where you can't really see 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.840 and we don't see anybody there. But there is this, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.600 you know, um, the shadow. So when you're looking out 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.320 the window you see nobody there, but from inside the room, 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.639 what the actual about it? So there we all, you know, 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.359 I excuse my French, but we all pooped our pants 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.439 and ran out there as quickly as we could. So 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.280 you ran to the house, right, Well, we ran out 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.160 of the office and went to the house. We told 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.480 you know, so you opened the front door. No, we 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:40.200 didn't open the front door. We didn't have the courage 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.439 to do that. So the shadow to stay there. Nobody 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:45.640 opened the door. Nobody opened the door because we assumed 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.440 that if it was somebody that was willing to rent 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.080 a room. They would knock, or they would ring the 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.760 doorbell or ring the bell to allow allow them to 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:54.840 come in, and then when we came back, of course 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:56.760 it was gone. So that was what if it was 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:58.760 an actual person there, and you I don't even know 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.359 because that and it could it could very well have 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.120 been because I think our our view that we were 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.480 looking at it obstructive, obstructive to stained glass. But I mean, 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.000 you let your imagination run wild and then you're like, well, 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.120 why isn't this person knocking? Maybe they weren't knocking because 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.400 you're like, what am I hearing? Inside? It's absolutely dark? 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:17.680 But I hear a bunch of like why wouldn't freaked 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.760 out kids? I mean, if you're coming there to rent 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:22.359 a room, why would you come to the moment you 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.879 would knock on the door? I mean, right dark? You 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.320 said it's dark inside? Absolutely Okay, I'm just started poke 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:29.920 holes and well, okay, so that freaked you up. But 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.280 that might have been a fun experience for the kids, 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.560 I'm sure. Yeah. And of course, um we went back 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.080 and relaid that to their father and he came out, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.280 and of course nobody was there at the door, So 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:44.080 that just only added to the mystery and the curiosity 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:48.159 and of course us being further scared. Yeah. I so 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:50.919 I also have my own I think. I guess when 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.879 you're at that age, you kind of like walk this 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:58.199 line of fear and also like, um, you like fascination 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.320 because you want to, like you want to, you want 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.240 to experience it, you want to witness it. So I 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.359 also have my own stupid whigi board story, which I'm 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:06.840 going to talk about later in the podcast. I want 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:08.680 to talk about it now. But that was it. But 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:10.960 like I never when I was young, I never had 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.800 any experience like that. Like we were, we had family, 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:15.840 friends would tell the stories, but I had not. I 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:17.840 had none of my own personal stories. It wasn't until 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.680 I was an adult that I had some really weird, 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.399 inexplicable stories that I am Listen, guys, I know this 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.159 is going to complete a story. My credibility, I do 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:30.240 not care. I am convinced it was like something supernatural, 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.239 and I'll talk about that, But first I want to know, 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.200 once you are not a kid anymore and you're grown up, 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:40.440 you know, did you then have any personal experiences? Yeah? 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.440 I mean, well, first and foremost I think even as 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.800 after that, I think at the age of like eleven 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.719 and twelve, I was living in boarding school. Remember outside 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:52.679 of Montreal, So, um, this was a Muslim boarding school. 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.720 So if you remember that, as you mentioned, like listen, 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:01.200 kids get together exactly. So there was always this discussion 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.800 of like, okay, you know, um, they're probably Jim's among 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:06.880 us because there was you know, they would always pass 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.359 this theory along that um they too come to study. 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:12.760 So one of the things would always be told is like, 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.760 look at shoes. So if somebody comes in, because you 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.440 place your shoes on on the rack or at least 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.880 right in front of the entrance of the mosque, if 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.919 somebody would shoes would be turned around the other way 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.119 that person was it gin because they would say, I 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:28.840 don't know if it's true or not, but they would say, 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.560 the feet of the gin are backwards, um, compared to us. 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.000 So even when they put them on the shoe rack, 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.800