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Speaker 1: Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Hi, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin.

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Speaker 1: The interviews in these episodes, you'll hear me talk to

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Speaker 1: people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences,

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Speaker 1: are drawn to the stories of Gin, and draw lessons

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Speaker 1: from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists,

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Speaker 1: and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss

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Speaker 1: how and why this series came about in a very

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Speaker 1: personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy.

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Speaker 1: All Right, so I'm pretty excited. I think this is

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Speaker 1: the first time I've ever recorded any kind of podcast

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Speaker 1: with my husband. Air Faun, isn't that right? Correct? That

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Speaker 1: correct rates five years and made it finally you've made it. Well,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show Air Fun Disease. Thank you very much. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So for for this episode, what I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: is I want to talk a little bit about how

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Speaker 1: this show came about, and then you and I are

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Speaker 1: going to have a conversation about like what it was

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Speaker 1: like for us growing up with these stories, any experiences

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Speaker 1: we've had Okay, So people who know me know that

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Speaker 1: I'm a lawyer. I have a criminal justice podcast undisclosed.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people know um me, probably just through

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Speaker 1: cereal and a non story and stuff. But I am

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Speaker 1: a box sunny American Muslim. I fun, are you a

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Speaker 1: box any American Muslim? Canadian? Close enough? Almost made it

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Speaker 1: to the Promised Land? Well, I mean I think it's

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Speaker 1: a step above America. Right, Well, things are different now,

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Speaker 1: things have changed since we got married. But anyway, um so,

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Speaker 1: I what happened was this. I was a big fan of,

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Speaker 1: and I still I'm a big fan of the show

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Speaker 1: Lore by Aaron Manki. And a few years ago I

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Speaker 1: had the pleasure of meeting Aaron Mankey. I think my daughter,

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Speaker 1: my middle daughter was with me at the time at

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Speaker 1: like a podcast movement conference and she was fan girling.

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Speaker 1: I was fan girling who took pictures with him. I

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Speaker 1: talked to him about it, and I told him, you know,

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Speaker 1: I just love folklore. I love supernatural stuff. It's been

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Speaker 1: stuff I've been like reading about and listening to, like

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Speaker 1: well reading about since I was a kid. And then

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Speaker 1: I asked him, I said, have you ever considered like

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Speaker 1: for flore To branch out of like European and North

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Speaker 1: American folklore, like there's a whole world of full floor

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of things. Uh And he said no.

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Speaker 1: And he said no because I wouldn't want to like

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Speaker 1: dabble into cultures and try to understand like they're out

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Speaker 1: like they're not mine, like he's you know, and I

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Speaker 1: get that. I think that was really smart. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: respectful of him. So what happened was like a year

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Speaker 1: or two ago, spy and why anyway? I told him,

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Speaker 1: I said, there's this entire world of beings called the Gin.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't know what that is. I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you've heard of the genies, like right, ad um? And

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Speaker 1: I explained to him kind of like the background and

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Speaker 1: how Muslims are obsessed with it. And every time we

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Speaker 1: get together we swapped Gin stories. But um, so a

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Speaker 1: year or two goes by, I can't remember how long,

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Speaker 1: and suddenly he reaches out and said, hey, I am

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Speaker 1: producing a whole slate of shows um that are like

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Speaker 1: similarly themed to lore for I Heeart Media. Would you

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Speaker 1: like to produce a podcast about the Gin? Your version

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Speaker 1: of inception? Is it? My version of how you sort

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Speaker 1: of planted the seed. Right, I don't remember inception well enough.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't remember it well enough. All right,

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Speaker 1: So I remember when I I was immediately excited and

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Speaker 1: then I told you that about this. What was your

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Speaker 1: first reaction? Well, I was excited too as well. I

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Speaker 1: think it's I mean, it's definitely unique something that I

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Speaker 1: feel there's a thirst four within them with some community,

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Speaker 1: I think exposing it to the broader community that they

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Speaker 1: too would enjoy something like this. Okay, that is not

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Speaker 1: the reaction I remember. I remember you saying, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get haunted, We're gonna get possessed. You do not talk

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Speaker 1: with the gin. You do not, You can't. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: that's true too. It's like Voldemort. You know, you don't

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Speaker 1: mention the name. It's it's it's it's something that you avoid,

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Speaker 1: especially growing up in these families. I mean, remember this

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Speaker 1: was something. I'm sure you remember it too with your

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Speaker 1: parents too as well. It's like, don't talk about it, um,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's kind of the thing. I had a

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Speaker 1: bit of a different experience with my family. Well, well

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Speaker 1: here's the Okay, we'll get into that in a second.

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Speaker 1: But I, um, said yes, even I said I will

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Speaker 1: risk the possession because I figured, like, if on my

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Speaker 1: husband he's always like you're always praying and stuff, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: we'll be okay, um, also my prayers and let's do

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Speaker 1: this um. And the other thing was I had spent

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Speaker 1: like four or five years working really really hard on

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Speaker 1: like wrongful conviction stuff and ring the other book, and

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Speaker 1: was I almost wanted like a creative project that would

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Speaker 1: be less stressful, although it was equally stressful. If now

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Speaker 1: more it was pretty stressful. Yeah, it's been a it's

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Speaker 1: been a long year because I spent this whole year

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Speaker 1: pretty much scripting this and researching this podcast. So all right,

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Speaker 1: so now let's regress into our childhood. So I grew

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Speaker 1: up in like the DC area mostly, and if I

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Speaker 1: grew up were Toronto, Canada and parts of parts. Actually

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Speaker 1: a few years I lived right outside Montreal in a

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Speaker 1: place called Cornwall. So I want to ask you what

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Speaker 1: is your earliest kind of memory around You said that

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Speaker 1: your parents would say, don't talk with the gin. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that I mean, so the prompt was don't talk about it.

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Speaker 1: And furthermore than it was like don't go outside and

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Speaker 1: late at night don't hang around trees, don't urinate on

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Speaker 1: trees if you're if you're a girl, like they would

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Speaker 1: tell my sisters, don't go up with wet hair after

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Speaker 1: dark by trees because there are so many I guess

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Speaker 1: experiences that they heard about um when they were growing

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Speaker 1: up where people were possessed in those in those circumstances.

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Speaker 1: So and additionally, it was mentioning it. Don't mention it

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Speaker 1: because you then sort of attracted. It's like the law

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Speaker 1: of attraction. You mentioned Jin, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: you might be haunted by some so, uh, you know

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Speaker 1: for us as as kids growing up. But did your

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Speaker 1: parents ever say to you, don't do this because we

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Speaker 1: have we have experienced with jin. We know what's like,

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Speaker 1: we've been like, have have any of your elders told

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Speaker 1: you Jin stories they've experienced? No? No, No, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm sure you know growing up in the

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Speaker 1: family family, there wasn't much of that type of conversation.

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Speaker 1: It was just like, don't do this, and I don't

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Speaker 1: ask questions, right, it was like I know better. So

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Speaker 1: we extrapolated from that that maybe they had some experiences,

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Speaker 1: and then I think my mother would sometimes you know,

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Speaker 1: past questions, I mean past comments about Oh I knew

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Speaker 1: this girl growing up and she would go out with

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Speaker 1: her hair open and wet after dark, and she just

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Speaker 1: went bogg love the hair, I guess, so I guess

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Speaker 1: they love the Muslim hair, Muslim wet hair. The question remains, yes,

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Speaker 1: that how came all these other people who are not

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Speaker 1: Muslim go out at night? Maybe the hair is not wet.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I think I think that the key. I

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Speaker 1: think maybe the the motivaane factor is taking a shower

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Speaker 1: with wet hair or something like that. UM So, if

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Speaker 1: your hair isn't washed, or if it's filthy, then maybe

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Speaker 1: this was filthy. It's filthy. Warning out there with filthy

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Speaker 1: hair you not washed, don't worry. Now, I was kidding.

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Speaker 1: But I think the urine aspect of it is that

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Speaker 1: you know, and you speak about this in the podcast.

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Speaker 1: UM Gin's are made from fire, right, so dousing them

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Speaker 1: with urine or any water is in a way detrimental

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Speaker 1: for them. And I've heard from other people where if

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Speaker 1: you do do that, there are times gins can be

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Speaker 1: killed because that's the exposure to water. So the family

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Speaker 1: or the relative of that gener will then attack you.

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Speaker 1: Um because of that injuring them. Yeah, so let me

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Speaker 1: ask you, do to what extent do you believe? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so here's the deal with my family. My parents never

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Speaker 1: talked about We just didn't talk about supernatural still, like

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a thing, right, We didn't talk about There

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Speaker 1: are some families where they really do talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about this. We didn't. It was just like, and my

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Speaker 1: mother never would say, don't go out because they don't

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Speaker 1: go out at night with your hair open because of gin.

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Speaker 1: She would just say for me and my sister, she

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Speaker 1: would said, don't go out after dark, um without covering

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Speaker 1: your head, and you know, And it was like, what,

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Speaker 1: why what is that about? Because I mean, as a Muslim,

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Speaker 1: I do cover my head now, but I didn't growing up.

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Speaker 1: I didn't start that like Beau, I was thirty years old.

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Speaker 1: That was totally something I did my own. But growing

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Speaker 1: up I didn't do it. My mother didn't do it.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, why is this thing like about

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Speaker 1: just in the dark? Right? Um? I don't remember if

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Speaker 1: there was much said about trees. So my question is,

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Speaker 1: do you have to what extent do you think it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like just a control mechanism because even even

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Speaker 1: the urinating under the trees. I'm not saying that the

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Speaker 1: full core doesn't exist. It does exist. Like for there

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Speaker 1: are stories that go back hundreds may thousands of years,

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Speaker 1: not just in Muslim tradition and other tradition, to like

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Speaker 1: in Jewish treation and other tradition. Um would let say

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Speaker 1: that they are these demons and entities that occupy certain trees. Um.

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Speaker 1: But also, hello, you know, urinating in a tree, like

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Speaker 1: in public is just generally kind of gross and disrespectful,

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Speaker 1: so maybe it was one way also, well, I mean

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean because if you if you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean you know, um, and in the pins or

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Speaker 1: in the villages, people go out into the to the

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Speaker 1: the the farms or to the open land to urinate.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not sure how. Yeah, but you know, here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. Though it's not usually open. It'll be like

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Speaker 1: in a field, so nobody can really see you, and

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Speaker 1: it's not under a tree necessarily, so you're it's kind

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Speaker 1: of private in a way even though it's and they

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Speaker 1: have designated areas where they that they got to go

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Speaker 1: somewhere if they don't have a outhouse writing. But well, okay,

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Speaker 1: so let me ask you this, Um, so your parents aside?

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Speaker 1: What about like you grew up around a lot of family, right, yeah, so, um,

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Speaker 1: that was definitely something we've spoke about, especially when cousins

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Speaker 1: would get together. A lot of cousins we did, um

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Speaker 1: so ghost stories and jin stories and people would you know,

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Speaker 1: hear from somebody else and then it would be passed on. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So was there ever a point like you guys um

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Speaker 1: tried to like summon a gin? You know there was,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we we tried exactly, but we actually went

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Speaker 1: through out of a Luiji board instead. So we we

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Speaker 1: assumed that it would be summoning spirits or jins or

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Speaker 1: something like that. But um, it was definitely who was it?

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Speaker 1: Who was there? So was my my sister, my older sister,

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Speaker 1: my brother, and then my a few of my cousins

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Speaker 1: we had gotten together. I think I was probably I

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Speaker 1: want to say it was about six for seven. You

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Speaker 1: didn't go run and tell your parents because you know

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Speaker 1: they're freaking out though, because I mean, I mean I

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Speaker 1: know I didn't of course. I mean there's mom's a word, right,

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Speaker 1: and you don't want to be invited back to the party.

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Speaker 1: So um, you know, of course they didn't mention anything

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Speaker 1: to my parents, but um, yeah, so that was kind

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Speaker 1: of like the first sort of exposure to it. Um,

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Speaker 1: nothing really happened. And I think, you know, wegi boards,

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Speaker 1: there's so much people say that. Sometimes it's so you

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Speaker 1: tried it one time, but you do like turn off

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Speaker 1: the lights and turn off the lights. We created a

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Speaker 1: makeshift wigi board and oh you don't even get like

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Speaker 1: a real one. Did you just make a paper remember correctly?

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Speaker 1: And then um, I think somewhere along that time we

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Speaker 1: also did. That's why it didn't work, do you think

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Speaker 1: so maybe maybe? Um? And then I think along that

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Speaker 1: time we also had um we were we were into

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Speaker 1: this Bloody Marry. Do you remember Bloody Mary. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Bloody Mary. Did you ever do it? I want to

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Speaker 1: say I did, but I think I was too scared.

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Speaker 1: I was so young, and the stories that you know,

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Speaker 1: my cousins were telling me, or my my sister and

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Speaker 1: my brother were saying it just really freaked me out.

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Speaker 1: They did do it, I want to say they did? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think, um, I did once. And you know what,

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Speaker 1: it is absolutely an optical effect. Look, you're in the dark,

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Speaker 1: you're spinning around, you flip on the light's real quick,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see something like your eyes are not quite focused, right.

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Speaker 1: I remember there being something weird. I didn't do like

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Speaker 1: a bloody looking for a girl standing behind me or

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Speaker 1: anything like that profound, but there was something. And then

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Speaker 1: I ran out of the bathroom and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just not gonna do this again, Like, even if

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Speaker 1: I see her, what am I going to get out

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Speaker 1: of it? What's the point of this? Right? Right? Right?

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Speaker 1: And and and I think it's just the curiosity of

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Speaker 1: you know, children, Just that's really true. I mean, you're here,

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Speaker 1: So whose idea was it? Like? Who want to do it?

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Speaker 1: Your sisters are like, I think it was my cousin's. Um.

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Speaker 1: So my cousins, UM, I think they might have been

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Speaker 1: a little more more braver, more sort of had more

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Speaker 1: experiences with with these types of stories. So whenever we

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Speaker 1: visit them, they would have, you know, a ray of

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Speaker 1: stories that they would be just telling us. And this

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Speaker 1: was one of the experiences that they wanted to share

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Speaker 1: with us. I think they may have tried it with

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Speaker 1: their friends, um, and it just seemed like a good

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Speaker 1: exercise to do with the cousins. When we all got

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Speaker 1: together do you remember and like I remember and one

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Speaker 1: of the episodes, I'll talk about it, so I won't

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Speaker 1: talk about it here. But um there was one story,

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Speaker 1: a gen story that if this family friends they told

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Speaker 1: us that stuck with me, Like growing up, do you

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Speaker 1: remember any of like you said, your cousins tell you

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Speaker 1: a lot of stories, was any story that really particularly

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Speaker 1: stuck with you? Well? Um so, my cousins and Niagara Falls. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They owned a motel. So this was way back in

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Speaker 1: like nineteen eighties or something like that. Um So they

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Speaker 1: would have a lot of experiences um and the supposedly

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Speaker 1: the motel was built upon UM I think um a battlefield,

264
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Speaker 1: like an old battlefield. It was like the British and

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Speaker 1: fighting the the first nations. Um so. Uh. They would

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Speaker 1: have these experiences where a specific room light would turn on,

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Speaker 1: um and then they'd go turn it off, and then

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Speaker 1: then that light would turn on again, or they would

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Speaker 1: hear a television and then those are back in the day.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like the televisions where we had to remote.

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Speaker 1: It was those you know televisions where you'd pulled the

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Speaker 1: nozzle and then change the channel, click click, you have

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Speaker 1: the knob and then you you changed and you clicked

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Speaker 1: with what was a uh F and VHF. I think

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Speaker 1: back in the day UM so so so somebody would

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Speaker 1: actually have to pull the knob for it to turn on.

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Speaker 1: It's not like and so so they would just be

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Speaker 1: like it would be the locked motel room and they

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Speaker 1: would hear the TV turn on. All of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: they hear the TV turn on. And there was this

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Speaker 1: UM experience, I think the one story where they mentioned

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Speaker 1: that behind UM the motel they ended up finding like

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Speaker 1: stairs that were leading down into some sort of um

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Speaker 1: I guess a seller and they had seen it before UM.

285
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Speaker 1: And they mentioned that their father and their uncle ended

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Speaker 1: up going down there. The only thing that they meant,

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Speaker 1: they related back to us was that they saw what

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Speaker 1: it looked like to them was dried blood going down

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Speaker 1: the stairs, UM two kids. It was probably probably could

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Speaker 1: have could have been like maybe somebody dropped in some

291
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Speaker 1: soda or something of that nature. Yeah, right. But what

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Speaker 1: they did say is that after their father and uncle

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Speaker 1: went down there, they still all the kids do not

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Speaker 1: go down there. So that just of course created you

295
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Speaker 1: know that for their curiosity. What what are they telling

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Speaker 1: us not to see down there? Um, so did the

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Speaker 1: kids go down there? No, they really no, No, I

298
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Speaker 1: think that would be like, okay, we absolutely have right.

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Speaker 1: It seemed like a good experience with with all your

300
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Speaker 1: cousins because now you have a pack to go with you.

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Speaker 1: Do they still have motelity, No, it's not. Actually I

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Speaker 1: don't know if the motel is still there, but they

303
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Speaker 1: saw that. Yeah, it would be nice. You know. There

304
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Speaker 1: was an experience that I think the first actual experience

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Speaker 1: was there Niagara Falls. So, um, um, you know their house,

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Speaker 1: the front portion of it was actually an office, the

307
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Speaker 1: motel office. Um. So we were hanging around in the

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Speaker 1: front portion of that of the house, and what happens

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Speaker 1: is that all of a sudden we see, um, some

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Speaker 1: like a shadow walking up to the door. Um. Now,

311
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Speaker 1: so we're expecting maybe are you in the office. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're in the office. We're just playing with the lights off,

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Speaker 1: just messing around in the office with the lights off.

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden we see the shadow

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Speaker 1: that is approaching the door. So we assume that somebody's

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Speaker 1: gonna come knock on the door, maybe they want to

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Speaker 1: rent a room or something like that. All of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the shadow comes to the door, and it doesn't knock,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't do anything. So we're like, what the hell

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Speaker 1: is going on? You can see a clear outlot, We

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Speaker 1: can see a clear outline of a person of a person. Um,

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Speaker 1: did you could you? Could you see it? Oh? Did

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Speaker 1: you hear like the footsteps too? Um? When I think

324
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Speaker 1: back to it, I think we heard rustling, but not

325
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Speaker 1: actual footsteps walking up. Um. So now we're we're trying

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Speaker 1: to peer out from the window and you know, they're

327
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 1: the sort of stained glasses where you can't really see

328
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Speaker 1: and we don't see anybody there. But there is this,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, the shadow. So when you're looking out

330
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Speaker 1: the window you see nobody there, but from inside the room,

331
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Speaker 1: what the actual about it? So there we all, you know,

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Speaker 1: I excuse my French, but we all pooped our pants

333
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,439
Speaker 1: and ran out there as quickly as we could. So

334
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Speaker 1: you ran to the house, right, Well, we ran out

335
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Speaker 1: of the office and went to the house. We told

336
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,480
Speaker 1: you know, so you opened the front door. No, we

337
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 1: didn't open the front door. We didn't have the courage

338
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,439
Speaker 1: to do that. So the shadow to stay there. Nobody

339
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,640
Speaker 1: opened the door. Nobody opened the door because we assumed

340
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Speaker 1: that if it was somebody that was willing to rent

341
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 1: a room. They would knock, or they would ring the

342
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 1: doorbell or ring the bell to allow allow them to

343
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Speaker 1: come in, and then when we came back, of course

344
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Speaker 1: it was gone. So that was what if it was

345
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,760
Speaker 1: an actual person there, and you I don't even know

346
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 1: because that and it could it could very well have

347
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,120
Speaker 1: been because I think our our view that we were

348
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 1: looking at it obstructive, obstructive to stained glass. But I mean,

349
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Speaker 1: you let your imagination run wild and then you're like, well,

350
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,120
Speaker 1: why isn't this person knocking? Maybe they weren't knocking because

351
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,400
Speaker 1: you're like, what am I hearing? Inside? It's absolutely dark?

352
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 1: But I hear a bunch of like why wouldn't freaked

353
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Speaker 1: out kids? I mean, if you're coming there to rent

354
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 1: a room, why would you come to the moment you

355
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,879
Speaker 1: would knock on the door? I mean, right dark? You

356
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 1: said it's dark inside? Absolutely Okay, I'm just started poke

357
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:29,920
Speaker 1: holes and well, okay, so that freaked you up. But

358
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 1: that might have been a fun experience for the kids,

359
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yeah. And of course, um we went back

360
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 1: and relaid that to their father and he came out,

361
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 1: and of course nobody was there at the door, So

362
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,080
Speaker 1: that just only added to the mystery and the curiosity

363
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,159
Speaker 1: and of course us being further scared. Yeah. I so

364
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:50,919
Speaker 1: I also have my own I think. I guess when

365
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,879
Speaker 1: you're at that age, you kind of like walk this

366
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,199
Speaker 1: line of fear and also like, um, you like fascination

367
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 1: because you want to, like you want to, you want

368
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 1: to experience it, you want to witness it. So I

369
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,359
Speaker 1: also have my own stupid whigi board story, which I'm

370
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 1: going to talk about later in the podcast. I want

371
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 1: to talk about it now. But that was it. But

372
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 1: like I never when I was young, I never had

373
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Speaker 1: any experience like that. Like we were, we had family,

374
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 1: friends would tell the stories, but I had not. I

375
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 1: had none of my own personal stories. It wasn't until

376
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 1: I was an adult that I had some really weird,

377
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 1: inexplicable stories that I am Listen, guys, I know this

378
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 1: is going to complete a story. My credibility, I do

379
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 1: not care. I am convinced it was like something supernatural,

380
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,239
Speaker 1: and I'll talk about that, But first I want to know,

381
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,200
Speaker 1: once you are not a kid anymore and you're grown up,

382
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 1: you know, did you then have any personal experiences? Yeah?

383
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 1: I mean, well, first and foremost I think even as

384
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 1: after that, I think at the age of like eleven

385
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,719
Speaker 1: and twelve, I was living in boarding school. Remember outside

386
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 1: of Montreal, So, um, this was a Muslim boarding school.

387
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 1: So if you remember that, as you mentioned, like listen,

388
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: kids get together exactly. So there was always this discussion

389
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: of like, okay, you know, um, they're probably Jim's among

390
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,880
Speaker 1: us because there was you know, they would always pass

391
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: this theory along that um they too come to study.

392
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 1: So one of the things would always be told is like,

393
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Speaker 1: look at shoes. So if somebody comes in, because you

394
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 1: place your shoes on on the rack or at least

395
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,880
Speaker 1: right in front of the entrance of the mosque, if

396
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,919
Speaker 1: somebody would shoes would be turned around the other way

397
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 1: that person was it gin because they would say, I

398
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: don't know if it's true or not, but they would say,

399
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 1: the feet of the gin are backwards, um, compared to us.

400
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: So even when they put them on the shoe rack,

401
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: which they do because that's the appropriate thing to do,

402
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 1: they would take off their shoes and put them on

403
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 1: the shoe right well, they would leave them on like

404
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 1: if so, yeah, if you saw shoes on the floor

405
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 1: and they're pointing the opposite direction then to the entrance.

406
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 1: Then you knew that that person was a gin. And

407
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: of course the other things were like some kids would

408
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know, um, because gyms are shape shifters. UM.

409
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 1: So uh, there was just stories that would always be

410
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: circulated that UM time, there was a student that was

411
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: a gin and he was sitting there and reciting or

412
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: reading his text, and um, one of the principal walked

413
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 1: by and he noticed that the light was on and

414
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 1: he looked in and there was a snake or serpent

415
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 1: sitting there reading his text, you know, rocking back and forth.

416
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,199
Speaker 1: So he knocked on the door. And then you know,

417
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 1: the student who was a gym transferring back to his

418
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: human form. And then you know that this is the

419
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,160
Speaker 1: story that kids told each other. Yeah this is a story,

420
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 1: but nobody actually knew that kid. Nobody actually knew that kid.

421
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was true. I don't even

422
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: if it wasn't. The school it was just you know,

423
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: one of those things that were circulated. But as far

424
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 1: as my own experiences go, I actually have had two

425
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: specific experiences. I've told you about these, but I'll share

426
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 1: it with um. You know, the podcast listeners to as well.

427
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after the short break. I think

428
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 1: I was. I want to say it was seventeen years old.

429
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: Um here I was being in the outskirts of Toronto

430
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: and a in a town called Ajax, and there too,

431
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: of course, UM you know, I lived with a bunch

432
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: of Muslims. So um you know that expects other students, right,

433
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,479
Speaker 1: exactly other students. Um. So one time, I think it

434
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: was after pre dawn, um, pre dawn prayers. I'd come

435
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 1: back to my to my room and I, um, you know,

436
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: laid down, went to sleep, um, and I was awoken

437
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: maybe about an hour later. All of a sudden, I

438
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 1: felt like this pressure on my chest and it was

439
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: an immense amount of pressure. All of a sudden, it

440
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 1: just felt like my chest was constricting, and my breathing

441
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: became ever more challenging. And then slowly that the progressed

442
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,479
Speaker 1: to like it being felt like I was being choked.

443
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 1: Now here. I was, Yeah, I'm my eyes are awake,

444
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 1: I'm I can't, I can't. I'm trying to yell. I

445
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: can't yell. I'm trying to move my body. I can't

446
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: move my body at all, and the pressure is just

447
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: increasing and increasing. Thankfully, I was, I was, you know, sure,

448
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: you know too as well. We're taught little um prayers

449
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 1: to recite Um for protection. So I began to try

450
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 1: to recite. I told Coursie, it's it's Um a verse

451
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: in inside the Koraan, which is recited for protection. And

452
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: I'm trying and I'm struggling. I get to a few

453
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: like in your head you're trying to say, I'm trying

454
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: to yell it. I'm trying to yell it and I can't.

455
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: And what the other people in the room when there's nobody, No,

456
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: this was just my own in my own dorm um.

457
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: So here I am. I'm trying to move, wiggle me

458
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,479
Speaker 1: my way out of this um, trying to just scream

459
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: for help, and nothing's not My body is not moving,

460
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: my mouth is not making or I'm not able to

461
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: make a sound. But I still try to recite this

462
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 1: verse and you know, slowly, slowly I'm trying to And

463
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: as I continue to recite it, the pressure is increasing,

464
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: which is trying to prevent me to recite it. But

465
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: I work my way through it. Could you see anything

466
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: is happening? No, it was it dark in the room. No,

467
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 1: it was actually because it's after I mean after that

468
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: morning morning sunrise. It was daylight. It wasn't it wasn't

469
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 1: dark in the room at all. But I finally am

470
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: able to with a great amount of struggle, I'm able

471
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: to recite um the whole prayer. And just as I

472
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: finished reciting, I see like this disbursement of light, like

473
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: a burst of light, like a burst of light, and

474
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: then my the the it feels like my neck is released,

475
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: the body, the weight is lifted off my shoulder, and

476
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: the the the entity I feel which it was, is

477
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: no longer present in the room. Um. So that was

478
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 1: my first experience that. Could you tell anybody? Yeah? Right away?

479
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: I told that my close friend and he mentioned that

480
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: somebody else had told him that that happened to him

481
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: too as well. And pre you scared? I I was

482
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: a I was. I was a little taken back, but

483
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wasn't freaked out. I was just like,

484
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: what the heck is this? And one of my friends,

485
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm the friend that I told me. I told he

486
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe it might have been a female

487
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: jin who likes you. Man, So um, next time, that's

488
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: so exciting for a teenage boy. I can't get me

489
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: a real girl, I can get a gin noo. Yeah. Um,

490
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: so I think the biggest thing when you're like, well

491
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: bring it out on, can we get a second date? Um?

492
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: But no, I think I was. I mean, I wasn't

493
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: really frightened, but it was definitely alarmed. Um. And so

494
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: from that moment not I would just always make sure

495
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: that I was reciting my prayer, prayers for protection before

496
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: I went to sleep and when I woke up and

497
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But then I had, UM, you know,

498
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: the same incident that happened a second time. I think

499
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: I want to say about it a year or change later.

500
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: What happens is now I'm sleeping. This is that Um,

501
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: this is around four o'clock at night. I'm sleeping in

502
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: the same house, in a in a different dorm room. Um,

503
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: and the same thing happens to me again. And all

504
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: of a sudden, UM, my chest is constricted. There's a

505
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: heavy it feels like a heavyweight on my chest. My

506
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: throat is being choked, it feels that way. Um, I

507
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: can't scream. And there was somebody I think, sleeping in

508
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: the next bed, but I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't

509
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: I couldn't make a sound, um, you know, to try

510
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: to call for help. I couldn't move my body as

511
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: much as I tried to with a lot of the hold.

512
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: It just seemed like, um, I had no power over it.

513
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: So then again, I do you feel like in that moment,

514
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: because I've read about this, and you know, people know

515
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: this is sleep paralysis, right, it's a very common, very common.

516
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: It's actually quite a common experience. But people to report

517
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: that they literally in those moments feel like they're going

518
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: to die. Yeah, and I felt that way. And that's

519
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: the thing, like, see, I think where what's some of

520
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: these things can't be explained in from a scientific perspective?

521
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: And I'm doing quotes air quotes, yeah, because science needs

522
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: to be an air quotes. No, please do not put

523
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: science and air quotes. Put science and air quotes. But

524
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: I'm saying in this home, yes we do. When it

525
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: relates to gin and supernaturals, I feel there are science

526
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: can explain everything right exactly for for I mean at

527
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: least now I means science always is progressing and involving.

528
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: But um, I feel as it relates to gin, um,

529
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: maybe there might be a gap at this point in time.

530
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: So I know some people say, oh, well, yeah, I've

531
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: had that in c paralysis, but um, maybe that's science

532
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: way of explaining such a supernatural experience at this point

533
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: in time. Yeah, it could be. Okay, So you were

534
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: so in the second instance, again, what happened? Did you

535
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: do the same thing where you try to recite the

536
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: prayer and yeah, so there again, I you know, struggled,

537
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: I mean exerted as much effort as I could to

538
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: recite that, um, the prayer for protection and as the

539
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: same way, just as I completed the last you know word,

540
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I saw burst to light and

541
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: the weight was lifted off my my chest. Was this

542
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 1: also with the sun out like it was the daytime

543
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: this time it was at night and in the night

544
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: you saw a burst of light. It's like a flash

545
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: of light. Are you positive you're awake in both these experiences?

546
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: I'm positive because I can. I mean I got up

547
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: right after it, sat up. Yeah, I sat up, and

548
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: then I was like, what the hell is going on?

549
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: I was freaked out. So I mean I got up,

550
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: and you know, I just started reciting, you know, started

551
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: reciting a litany of prayers just for protection. But yeah,

552
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: it was. I mean my eyes were wide open um

553
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: in both both circumstances, so my eyes weren't closed at all. Um,

554
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: nor was I imagine I think there was something like

555
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: in that in that place, like in dorm. I think

556
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: it's fair to say. I mean, I would hear from

557
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: so many people and and was your system free of

558
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: any psychedelic substances? Yeah? No, I was taking shrooms and

559
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: I was kidding. No, of course, I was seventeen years old,

560
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: sixteen years old, I was. I was free from any

561
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: intoxication or any psychedelic I guess substances. Um. Yeah, I

562
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: mean in both circumstances. And the reason why it's sort

563
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: of um, I felt that way because I then passed,

564
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: I mean my friend reaffirming that had happened to somebody else.

565
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: And then later on in life. Um. You know, many

566
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: people have told me that they've had that same type

567
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: of experience too as well. Lady Jinn, trying to get

568
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: with everybody. You know, it's interesting, Um, I many of

569
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: the in fact, many of the accounts I've heard of

570
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: read happened. It seems to happen more with men. It

571
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: actually does seem to have more with men than women,

572
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: and I wonder what that's about. Um, so was that

573
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: it that those two times, those that happened, those were

574
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: the two times that had actually happened to me where

575
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: I feel they were supernatural Jane experiences. And you after

576
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: I think I remember telling you this in the past,

577
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, you know, it could be c paralysis.

578
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: I was like, no, it's really well, Jane can causely paralysis, right,

579
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: I mean like, I'm not saying that they can't, but right, well, okay,

580
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: so that's interesting. So you were like seventeen or eighteen

581
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: the last time you had one of these experiences, but

582
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: the rest of your adult life even and you're like,

583
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: how do you know forty forty one? Yeah, I think

584
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: I'm turning forty one. Yeah, you'll be turning forty one

585
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: this year. So in all these years you haven't had

586
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: another experience. Why do you think that is? I think

587
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: I met you and you you've sort of warned them off.

588
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I don't know if

589
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: that's good. But so I'll tell you about my experiences.

590
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: I'll tell the listeners about my experiences. And I've told

591
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: you about this again. I didn't grow up in a house.

592
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: I mean even now when I've asked my dad as

593
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: I was producing this podcast, I was like, Woul do

594
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: you have any gin stories. He's like no. I was like,

595
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: you were born before the creation of Pakistan. I mean, like,

596
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, you were raised in on grounds that probably

597
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: like ancient, ancient grounds you've never had. I was like,

598
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: I was like, what about your family, your father? He's

599
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: like no. I was like why not? He was like,

600
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: don't you believe jenn exists? He's like, yeah, they of

601
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: course we're supposed to believe it. Um but he's like,

602
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: you know, I guess I don't really think about that stuff.

603
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: You know, maybe if you are more receptive and open

604
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: and thinking about it, then you're going to have more experiences.

605
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: I guess maybe. But um so, I again, I didn't

606
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: have that, and I always it's not that I didn't

607
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,719
Speaker 1: believe it. I did believe it. I've always believed in

608
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: things that I cannot see. Obviously, we are people of faith,

609
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: so we believe in God. We cannot see God, we

610
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: can't see angels, we can't see other things that we

611
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: still are part of our creed right. Um Now, some

612
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: people obviously will say, well, some things are literal and

613
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: some are figurative. But anyhow, the point is we've been

614
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: taught that to the general this is not figurative. It

615
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: was really But so the first time I had an experience.

616
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: So here's what happened. I went to I visited mankasan Um.

617
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: This happened about about twenty years ago. No, about seventeen

618
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: years ago. I visited bak Son and I visited like

619
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: this area up in the hills called Muddy There's a

620
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: lot of antique shops up there, and I bought this.

621
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: It looked like a silver kind of engraved picture, and

622
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: it was a picture of like a man playing a

623
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: flute and a woman. It's some kind of romantic scene.

624
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: It's supposed to illustrate something like a roomy poem or something.

625
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: I don't remember the history behind. It's beautiful engraving. And

626
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: I brought it back and man, this is a time

627
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: at which I had recently become a single parent. I

628
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: was I had gotten divorced, moved into a condo your

629
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: friends my friends condor that I was renting from her.

630
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: It was the first time I was kind of actually

631
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: living on my own um since like for many years.

632
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: And so what happened was I. She had a kitchen counter,

633
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: a counter, you know, one of those counters. I faced

634
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: out of the kitchen SEQ put stools on the other side.

635
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: So I had propped this engraving up, which is it

636
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: was maybe like an nine by twelve I don't know,

637
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: something like that, not huge up against um, like on

638
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: one end of the counter, up against the wall or

639
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: one side of it. And every so often it would

640
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: just keep it would just like slam down, right. I

641
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: was like, okay, well, maybe it's like a it's like

642
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: a granite countertop. Maybe it's slippery. So I would like

643
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: put things in front of it, like candles and things

644
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: to hold it up, and it would still go boom,

645
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: and it was slammed down over and over again. It

646
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't slip, it would actually fall. It would just fall

647
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: on his face. It would just fall on his face,

648
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: like over and over. Even it was leaning backwards. Yeah,

649
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: So I was like, well, that's weird now, but that

650
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: wasn't so, I mean, that didn't freak me out so

651
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: much because I'm like, I don't know, maybe something's happening here. Um.

652
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: At the same time, I had bought from some shop,

653
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: you know the Rodan's the Thinker, that really famous statue

654
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: of a and I had this. I had a little

655
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: replicuff the Thinker. It was all it was made of

656
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: black marble or black something. And my mom was like,

657
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: get that little thing out of this, like that looks

658
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: like it's like some kind of a little demon idol.

659
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: I get it out of your I was like, it's

660
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: like a claw sickle, what else sculpture. She was convinced

661
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: that thing was gonna hot me. But so anyhow, nothing happens.

662
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: And then um, I had a cousin who came from Bakastan.

663
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: She was like sixteen years old, and um, she started

664
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: she was living with me while her parents were like

665
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: trying to find a place and stuff and trying to

666
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: get on their feet. She lived with me maybe like

667
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: four or five months. So it was me, her and

668
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: then my daughter, who was like I think four or five,

669
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: maybe six at the time, I can't remember. Um what

670
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: happened was one night I made meatballs for dinner. I

671
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: remember this, made meatballs for dinner. We're having meatballs, and

672
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: suddenly my cousin bites into a meat ball and an

673
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: entire human tooth that's insane comes out. Of the meat ball. Now, look,

674
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 1: I had this meat ball. It wasn't like I just

675
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: took the meat I cat from the store shaped it

676
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: into balls like I mixed it. It was not her tooth.

677
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: It was nobody's tooth. Um. I had mixed the meat.

678
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: I had added spices to it and onion to it.

679
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: You know how we make our bokasani meatballs, right, it

680
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: had So I'm like, how did that even get past me? First,

681
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: all while I was making it. But also we're in

682
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: the heck and it was like a human too it

683
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: so again, now this could be the butcher's too, I

684
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: don't know, or a cow. It wasn't that big. It

685
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: was an actual human tool. So that was really weird.

686
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: But here's the part where I was like, I am

687
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: definitely like, something's definitely happening. What happened one morning was

688
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: every morning my daughter, I would drop off my daughter,

689
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: yes she was like six. Every morning I drop off

690
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: my daughter and my cousin. They had enrolled her at

691
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: the same school as my daughter dropped him off at school,

692
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: I come back, I get ready, and then I'd drive

693
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: into d C. I lived in Virginia. I drive into

694
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 1: DC for work because that would give me a little

695
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: more time, and they had to be at school earlier.

696
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: So one morning, I'm sitting on the sofa and this

697
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: was back in the day when people used calling cards

698
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: to make international phone calls. I had a calling card.

699
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: I was trying to call my uncle in Bukasan, and

700
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: so it's like six thirty or seven am, and I'm

701
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: trying to make it because it's like, that's the timing

702
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: is right, and you got a time the calls right, yeah,

703
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: ten twelve hour different. And I'm like, well, I can't

704
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: get through, and I'm called link to the girls. I'm

705
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: sitting on the sofa that's right by the front door.

706
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, girls, you know what, let's go.

707
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: We don't have time. And I put the calling card

708
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: on the phone down on the sofa and I thought,

709
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: I'll come back and I will make the call. And

710
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: we left, and in front of me, my daughter left,

711
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: my cousin left. I walked out behind them, I locked

712
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: the door, I went and I dropped him off. I

713
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: was back home in about ten minutes. And when I

714
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: walked in the door, I just I will never I

715
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: opened the door with my right hand. I stepped inside

716
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: the sofas to my left. I looked down to the

717
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: sofa and that calling card had been shredded into tiny

718
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: little bits. Now, first of all, calling cards have like

719
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: this little coating on them. Yeah, it is hard, and

720
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, human hands could not have shredded that thing.

721
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't tiny little like it wasn't like ripped in

722
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: like four pieces. It was like a little pile of

723
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: shredded calling card next to the phone. And I was like,

724
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: what the hell just happened. I was gone for ten minutes,

725
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: and then I just kind of started putting the pieces together.

726
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, that thing keeps falling and this is happening

727
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: in human too. Then, um, so my mom, I said.

728
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: I was like, then I was convinced. I told the

729
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: story to um one of my friends and my co

730
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: host from Undisclosed and Susan Simpson, and she's like, Robbie,

731
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: I'm more terrified by the fact that somebody broke into

732
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: your house while you're go and they were probably hiding

733
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: in the closet. I'm like, if somebody broken into my house,

734
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: why would they do that? Of all things, why would

735
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: it be like this is what I'm gonna do? Are

736
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: they running around with a shredder, like what's going on here?

737
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: Like human hands couldn't do it. So I was then

738
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: convinced that something's happening now. I told my mom and

739
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: my mom was like, oh, yeah, definitely, it's that little

740
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: black thinker guy. You have a little black Yeah. So

741
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: she's like, this is what you do. She's like, you

742
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: tell that you have to assert yourself and you have

743
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: to tell that jin that that is your home and

744
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: that you believe in God and you cannot be scared

745
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: out of there. And I did it. I stood up

746
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: there a couple of times on different nights and I said,

747
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: my name is Roberta. I'm a Muslim. I am not

748
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: scared of you. This is my home. I command you

749
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: to get out, leave me alone. Sounds like what's that

750
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: movie Princess Pride. He's like where he's like, my name

751
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 1: is um. I forget what he says, and he says

752
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: prepared to die. I don't even know then, I don't.

753
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: I really don't. Well, I don't know if it worked

754
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: or not, because the truth is I only had a

755
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: six month lease, and I like, I think that's a

756
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: name or something like that. I had a six month

757
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: lease and I left, and so I don't know what happened,

758
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: But honestly, I know these were not frightening experiences. But

759
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: for the most part, when people talk about like the

760
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: experiences that are inexplicable, it's usually, um, it's not stuff

761
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: that's over terrifying. It's not like these If these beings

762
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 1: are messing with you, they're not trying to terrify. It's

763
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: almost like the kind of showing you when we're here, right.

764
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: And you know, it's interesting that you mentioned that. It

765
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: reminds me of a story of my friends. Uh. They

766
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: moved from Toronto and went to good Draft in India. UM,

767
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: and they did a reverse immigration. Well yeah, I think

768
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: they spent a few years. They're just trying to culture

769
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: their kids, um and the and or at least expose

770
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: your kids to the Indian culture. UM. So what happened

771
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: is that they wanted to find a house. I was

772
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: close to the school that their kids are going to

773
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: be attending, and they found that there was one house

774
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: that was empty and nobody would rent it. And so

775
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: they were like, well why why you know, they asked

776
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: around and people like, oh, no, that's the house with

777
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: Jin's in it. That's why nobody rents it. So the father,

778
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a jeef. And when I knew him,

779
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: he was like, all right, well whatever, He's like, he's close.

780
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: He's like, this is prime real estate, so I'm gonna

781
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: get I'm gonna take this house. So um. What happens

782
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: is that he goes into the house and he grabs

783
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: a big staff and he walks into the house and

784
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: he says, my name is and I'm not going to

785
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: say the name. My name is. I hear x x

786
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: y Z, and I'm a I'm a I'm a believer

787
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: in God, and I'm a follower of the problems. And

788
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: this will be the place that I live. You shall

789
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: not touch my family or bother them, and if you do,

790
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: I will beat you the hell out of this house.

791
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: And um, they say that this family any side one year,

792
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: Lisa got a multi year because it was a good deal. Um.

793
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: But what happened was that his sons would tell me,

794
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, they would hear running on sort

795
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: of the attic um, and every so often they would

796
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: see like, um, maybe a baby gin or something like that.

797
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: Um um. But they never never, never had any any

798
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: problems with it. So that to live together, um, and

799
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: we're able to sort of settle their differences and live

800
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: in the same place. It was that stuff. Yeah, I

801
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: guess so. I mean, but I think that's kind of

802
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: like how your mother said, right, well, look um in

803
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: the time that I because I was also a little

804
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: bit worried about the fact that I'm like, am I

805
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: like literally summoning the gin by or I have all

806
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: these gin books. I've got a whole stack of gin

807
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: books now in our bedroom, all places I'm reading about this.

808
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: I've got like and then you had that what was

809
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: that little book about how to summon Effreet and all

810
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: these other demons? Yes, I do, I have a summing.

811
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: I have all kinds of something burn that we can't

812
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: burn it right, not yet. Um, I still need it.

813
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: But the thing is like, so far, I feel like

814
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: we're okay, nothing's happened. He's looking our God willing. Let's

815
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: let's hope it stays that way. We'll continue to recite

816
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: our prayers in the litany of I'll let you recite

817
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 1: them and blow on me and everything. And I'm okay.

818
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm one of those people who would, like,

819
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: you know, I remember when I was younger, I wanted

820
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: to be hypnotized, and I couldn't. I feel like I'm

821
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: too much of a like a cynic. I'm not like

822
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, my veils not thin enough, like they

823
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: just won't come to me. Yeah maybe maybe maybe, but

824
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: I don't think you want to sort of tempt them

825
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: in that fashion as well, where you're like, I don't

826
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: think they'll come to me. Now I've said it out loud. Well,

827
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: if they do, I will definitely podcast about it. Yeah. Well, hey, great,

828
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: great way to share that story, I guess. All right, Okay,

829
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: well that's it. I think for our first episode, I

830
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: have a really great interview with UM Professor Ali Alumi,

831
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: who is like he knows everything about GIN inside now.

832
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: He is like a scholar and expert. It's a fantastic conversation,

833
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: so definitely to it in for that and UM of course,

834
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: check out the rest of the series. Stay safe, don't

835
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: pee under a tree, dry your hair for you go out,

836
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,919
Speaker 1: cover your hair. All right, guys, thanks, thanks for fun.

837
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Now,

838
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: there are as many people in the world with Jin

839
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: stories as there are GIN, so if you have one

840
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: you'd like to share, make sure to email it to

841
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 1: me at the Hidden Gin at gmail dot com. That's

842
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: the Hidden Gin. Th H E H I D D

843
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: E N d J I n n at gmail dot com.

844
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: And until next time, remember we are not alone. The

845
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: Hidden Gin is a production of I Heart Radio and

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Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written

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Speaker 1: and hosted by Robbiah Chaudrey and produced by Miranda Hawkins

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Speaker 1: and Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams,

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Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. Our theme song was created by Patrick Quartets.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I

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Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.