1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero. I'm Akshatrati. This week characters Climate and Consequences. 2 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: Earlier this year, a new TV show came out that 3 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: caused quite a stir in the climate world. It's called Extrapolations, 4 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: and it starts in the year twenty thirty seven, where 5 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: the chaotic effects of climate change have become embedded into 6 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: everyday lives. Of course, you don't have to go years 7 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: out into the future to see how climate change is 8 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: affecting the world. Climate change is already part of our story. 9 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: As one of the executive producers of the show, Dorothy 10 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: Fortenberry points out. 11 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: You know, people talk about climate fiction as though it's 12 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,639 Speaker 2: this particular genre, and they'll ask us, oh, so you're 13 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: making a science fiction show about climate and I'll always say, well, actually, 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: all of the current shows on TV that are taking 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 2: place right now or in the near future that don't 16 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 2: portray climate change like those are the science fiction shows. 17 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 3: It is currently happening. 18 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 2: We are already living in a one point one to 19 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: Grace elcias res in a. 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: World written by Scott z Burns and featuring almost as 21 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: many A listers as a Wes Anderson movie. Extrapolations plays 22 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: out over forty years. In each episode, the temperature is 23 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 1: a little bit hotter and the planet a little less 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: hospital and even though the world changes, people largely stay 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: the same. 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 3: If God made humans in his image, why do they suck? 27 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: Or did we just evolve into sacking. 28 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: This is from an episode about a girl preparing for 29 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: her bath Mitzua while dealing with two well worn conflicts 30 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: that between a teenager and her parents and the Atlantic 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: Ocean versus the city of Miami. Extrapolations is the first 32 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: TV show to put climate at the center of the drama, 33 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: not as dystopia, but as part of our current reality. 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: Is the backdrop for a heist, a dinner party, a 35 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: love story. If you care about climate, this feels like 36 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: a massive opportunity to get other people on board to 37 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: spur action. But no TV showrunner and no streaming service 38 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: wants to make an eight hour public service announcement. It 39 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: has to be exciting. So for the last episode in 40 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: our series exploring climate storytelling, Dorothy joins me in New 41 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: York City to talk about how the Extrapolations team actually 42 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: went about making the show, the decisions they made while 43 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: telling a story about climate and the growing demand for 44 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: these kinds of stories. It's worth noting that this interview 45 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: was recorded before the writers strike. Dorothy, Welcome to the show. 46 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. 47 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: Now, I've watched the series and I had a lot 48 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: of feelings for many of the characters. But before I 49 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: bring in my opinions, how would you describe Extrapolations? 50 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: I would say that Extrapolations is an eight episode limited 51 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: series with interconnected stories about how climate change affects every 52 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: aspect of our lives. There are stories about parents and children, 53 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 2: there are stories about communities, there are stories about friends. 54 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 2: And it's a way of looking at not the question 55 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: of is climate change real? But what does it feel like? 56 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: What does it feel like to live in a world 57 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: whose climate is changing and has changed? 58 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: And you're a writer, playwright and producer. Before working on Extrapolations, 59 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: you worked on The Handmade Stale. What did you learn 60 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: from making a series like that which is dystopian in 61 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: its nature but is based on some true things and 62 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: then takes it further. 63 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: I think the approach the markt Atwood took and creating 64 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: Handmaid's Tale was very similar to the approach that we 65 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: took in terms of not wanting to jump too far afield, 66 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: not wanting to leap to an extreme, different. 67 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 3: Outlier, odd place. 68 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: I think those stories can be great, no disrespect to 69 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 2: stories that take place in a very different universe. But 70 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: I think in Handmaid's Tale, as you said, she made 71 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: a point of having every single oppressive, repressive, theocratic thing 72 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: that happened to women in that book have already occurred 73 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 2: to some specific group of women previously in history. It 74 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: always had a basis in some previous atrocity, some previous 75 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 2: form of exploitation. And I think when we were coming 76 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: up with the thoughts for extrapolations, that idea of it's 77 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 2: just you know, it's the house next door, right to reality, 78 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: it's just one over, It's not, you know, in a 79 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 2: totally different neighborhood and in a totally different planet, it's 80 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: pretty close was definitely something that we thought about, certainly 81 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 2: with the first couple episodes. Handmaid's Tale takes place in 82 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: a very condensed chunk of time. Episodes unfold, you know, 83 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: the day after or a few weeks after, a few 84 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: months after previous episodes. Often seasons pick up seconds later. 85 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 2: With extrapolations we were unfolding from twenty thirty seven to 86 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,119 Speaker 2: twenty seventy, so we had a much longer time frame, 87 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: and we were able to start the early episodes in 88 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 2: a future that felt approachable and relatable and pretty close 89 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: to today, and then kind of turn up the dial 90 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 2: on the futureyness so that by the final episodes it 91 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: is pretty different. The clothes are pretty different, the rooms 92 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: look pretty different, the technology is pretty different. And we 93 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 2: also worked really hard to make sure there were a 94 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: mix of technologies and a mix of costume pieces, like 95 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: we are now in twenty twenty three. I am wearing 96 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: a watch with a canvas band. Right, I'm wearing a 97 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 2: very old fashioned watch. This watch could have existed in 98 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty or nineteen eighty. I'm currently wearing it in 99 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. And we try to bring that spirit 100 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: to all of our decisions, that people don't just get 101 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: handed and outfit when they show up in a year 102 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: and say like, okay, you know your head to toe, 103 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: all your technology, all your clothes are from the future. 104 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: People are always collecting a mix of things. 105 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: There's a different year typically in every episode, and there's 106 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: a different temperature at which the planet has warmed. Scientists 107 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: are able to plan many future scenarios based on the 108 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: agency that humans have today. So Extrapolations is essentially a 109 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: climate science future, but in the episodes, there is one 110 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: future that is being lived. Every episode is in a 111 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: different year, the temperature is different. Why is the show 112 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: called extrapolations and not extrapolation? 113 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: We are coming up with a set of potential possibilities, 114 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: and our guiding question when we were trying to pick 115 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: what future to show would be what if we kept 116 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: ongoing with current trends. So we were writing the show 117 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty twenty twenty one, continued making it in 118 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, it's on the air in twenty twenty three, 119 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: so we were really looking around at what was happening 120 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: right at that moment, and our philosophical conceptual framework was 121 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: what if we just keep going as is? What if 122 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: we don't get drastically worse, but we also don't get 123 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: drastically better, we don't invest in different technologies, we continue 124 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: current rates of deforestation, all those sorts of things. And 125 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: I think keeping it as extrapolations plural is a way 126 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: of saying, if we keep going as is, then one 127 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: thing leads to the next thing. The decisions made in 128 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: episode one in twenty thirty seven play out in twenty seventy. 129 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: We really wanted to show people that choices made in 130 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: one decade have consequences in another decade, that we are 131 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: already coming into the series after a set of choices 132 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 2: has been made between twenty twenty two and twenty thirty seven, 133 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: and then picking up and going, well, if those were made, 134 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: then what about the next thing? What about the next thing? 135 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 2: What about the next thing? If you look at the font, 136 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: this is just something I'm proud of, So I'm going 137 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 2: to talk about it. 138 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 3: Oh, I love the fun Thank you. 139 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 2: I'm very proud of that fought. Our ideal with the 140 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: font was that it starts pretty bold, you know, the 141 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: E of extrapolations is pretty bold, and by the time 142 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: you get to the S, it's pretty thin, because we're 143 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: imagining into a future, and the further away we get, 144 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: the less confident our predictions can be. 145 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: By episode eight, the final episode, it's seventy and the 146 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: earth is two point five eight degrees celsius. Now you 147 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: were thinking about scenarios that would be realistic from the 148 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: world that you were building it in, which was twenty 149 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: twenty twenty twenty one. At the time, you know, we 150 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: were thinking the warmest we could get on business as 151 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: usual would be two point three degrees celsius. Two point 152 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: six is actually pushing it because every point one degree 153 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: celsius makes the planet so much worse. So what went 154 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: into thinking two point six is the kind of realistic 155 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: place where we'll end up. 156 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: I think it was based in the notion that countries 157 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: wouldn't actually meet their targets. I think it is a 158 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: I don't want to say cynical, but it's a sort 159 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 2: of glass half empty view of the commitments. So people 160 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 2: make these commitments. We show a cop in episode one. 161 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 2: You know, we try to talk about how we come 162 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: to these agreements, but I think we were trying to 163 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 2: say that you can make all these agreements, make all 164 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: these pledges, but is that actually something that you're doing 165 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: or is that just something that you pledged to? And 166 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 2: in our world, it is a world where institutions and 167 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: politicians are not successful at meeting the challenge. You know, 168 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: I was gratified when the IRA passed because it was 169 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 2: already something that was better than we had imagined in 170 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 2: our future. 171 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: Right, the inflation reduction Act passed in twenty twenty two, 172 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: right in the middle of making the. 173 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: Show exactly, and we had already filmed it, and we 174 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 2: had created a world with no Ira, so already reality 175 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: had done a superior job to our characters. But in 176 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: twenty and twenty twenty one, when we were imagining it, 177 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 2: we didn't know. And I think it was very plausible 178 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: to believe in those years that there would not be 179 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: you know, climate legislation passed in the US. So I 180 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 2: think our two point six target was a depressing version 181 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 2: of reality. Like it's not an optimistic view. It's not 182 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: a view of what if we do everything right, But 183 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: it's also not a horror show where everything has to 184 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: go horribly wrong. We just have to kind of suck 185 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: a little bit and fail a little bit for it 186 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 2: to be pretty horrible. And I also think that one 187 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: of our real goals is to try to translate numbers 188 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 2: on a graph into experiences and feelings. 189 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 4: You know. 190 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 2: Some of this gets down to like the United States 191 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 2: not adopting the metric system, you know, I think it's 192 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 2: a huge climate problem. Like if I could go back 193 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: and try and change like three things, one of them 194 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: would be to get the us to adopt the metric 195 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 2: system because everyone I know who hears one point five 196 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: or two point five, they think it's degrees fahrenheit because 197 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: we're used to as Americans thinking in degrees fahrenheit, and 198 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 2: it radically underestimates the problem just in this form of math. Right, 199 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: So we in the show actually balance between talking about 200 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: celsius and talking in fahrenheit, and we sometimes have characters 201 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 2: describe things in fahrenheit, which would be a little bit 202 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 2: unusual given who they are, as a way of reaching 203 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: the American audience and setting. I mean, it's so subtle, 204 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: but we're trying to say, like these numbers have a feeling. 205 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: Now in telling a climate story, how do you generate 206 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: a sense that what we are seeing on the screen 207 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: in front of us isn't the only way forward. 208 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 2: That is a huge question and one that we really 209 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: struggled with and that I think climate fiction in general 210 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 2: has to tackle. And I think it's really tricky. There 211 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: haven't been a ton of climate movies, but the ones 212 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: that there have been, things like The Day After Tomorrow, 213 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: have often been natural disaster focused, kind of apocalyptic. Everything 214 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 2: is ending, it's the final collapse, and I think something 215 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: that's tricky about that is if you say climate change 216 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: equals the total collapse of everything, then any moment short 217 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 2: of the total collapse of everything must not be climate change. 218 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 2: And what we were trying to show was things can 219 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: be quite quite bad while you still go to work, 220 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 2: you still watch TV, you still do the cross red puzzle, 221 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 2: you still live your regular life. But we definitely didn't 222 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: want to inspire a sense of fatalism. The last thing 223 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: we wanted to do was say like, this is how 224 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: it is and it can't be any different. I think 225 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: there are two ways that we try to tackle it. 226 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 2: One is showing characters always struggling in their own stories 227 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: and in their own ways to make decisions. So our 228 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: characters are in a certain situation because of the decisions 229 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: made by other people, but they always have agency. It's 230 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: not stories of people who are just kind of buffeted 231 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: by the fates. They're always having to decide what do 232 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: I do now, where do I go now? How do 233 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 2: I act now? And I think our hope is that 234 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 2: in watching that people will ask those same questions of themselves. 235 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: And yet at the end of the series spoiler alert here, 236 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: you conclude after a code case that human flaws are unfixable. 237 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: You know. 238 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 3: The problem that's never been technology. 239 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: The problem is us always has been. What we're trying 240 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: to say is that people are the ingredients of everything. 241 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: You know, it's like soylent green like it's all made 242 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: of people. People are institutions. People are the people who 243 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 2: come up with the technology. So again, to get a 244 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: little spoilery, there is a technology in episode eight that 245 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: is really revolutionary, and the question is what do we 246 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: do with it? It is deployed in a certain way 247 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: at a certain time by a certain set of people 248 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: in that episode. But I think the question in the 249 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: episode remains if it had been deployed differently, if it 250 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: had been deployed earlier, by a different set of people 251 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 2: with a different agenda, it could have really done a 252 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: lot of good. So to me, one of the most 253 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 2: important things that we talk about is human institutions and 254 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: the tension between very powerful individuals and then institutions. Can 255 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: we build a un can we build a religious community? 256 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: Can we build international criminal court? Can we build a 257 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: United States government? 258 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 3: Can we build. 259 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: Any institution out of regular people that is robust enough 260 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: to resist the influence of one rogue person who has 261 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: a ton of money in power, and I think that's 262 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: a question that we really grapple with in every episode, 263 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: and we're showing one version of that story, but another 264 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,479 Speaker 2: version would be, you know, yes, what if the institutions, 265 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: which are also made of people, also made of flawed 266 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: but wonderful people, can be more robust, can be more dynamic, 267 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: can be more active than one rogue individual's choices matter less. 268 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: Typically in a climate story of fossil fuel executive would 269 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: be the central villain, but you choose to have Nick Bilton, 270 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: who is played by Kid Harrington, who starts off as 271 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: a billionaire with this company called Alpha, providing batteries and 272 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: then eventually social media and services to live forever, essentially 273 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: all the things that humans want, rather than fossil fuels, 274 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: which are the main cause of climate change. Why did 275 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: you choose to make Nick Bilton the central villain of 276 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: the TV series? 277 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: In this case, it was partly about conceptualizing a lot 278 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 2: of different phenomena in one person, because it's a TV 279 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: show and we have to hire an actor, and having 280 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 2: somebody portray the entire fossil fuel industry is harder than 281 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: having one person show up and kind of portray all 282 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: of human desire, as you were saying. But I think 283 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 2: what we most wanted to get across with that character 284 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 2: is that climate can be an economic opportunity for peace people, 285 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: and we have to be prepared for that. It's going 286 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 2: to be an economic devastation for a lot of people, 287 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 2: but someone out there is going to make money off 288 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 2: of it, and we have to sort of prep for 289 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 2: and imagine that. I also think we really wanted to 290 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 2: get the concept of predatory delay, That this is not 291 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: a character who is avoiding the transition to a green 292 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 2: economy entirely, but this is a character who's putting his 293 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: feet on the brakes, and that that's also something that 294 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 2: a lot of corporations and people are thinking about, is 295 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 2: they can say, well, we know we're going to get 296 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: there eventually, but just not today. And we wanted to 297 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: have one person as the avatar of that kind of 298 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: philosophy and that kind of belief. 299 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: After the break, I talked with Dorothy about why so 300 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: many A List actors wanted to be part of Extrapolations 301 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: and how she's working with other writers to make more 302 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: TV shows like it. If you're enjoying Zero and the series, 303 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: please take a moment to write us a review on 304 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or Spotify. 305 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 3: Thank you. 306 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: A portion of our audience are climate nerds, and they'll 307 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: watch the series and they'll connect the science to the reality. 308 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: And you would have, I assume, had to work hard 309 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: to make sure that the science is accurate. Who did 310 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: you tap and what were the conversations you had around 311 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: making sure the possible futures, whether it's a drought, whether 312 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: it's a heat wave, whether it's wet bulb temperature or accurate. 313 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 2: Scott and the writer's room met with a bunch of 314 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: different people before I joined the project. So in that 315 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: writer's room, I know that they spoke to Bill mckibbon, 316 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: They spoke to Elizabeth Kolbert, they spoke to Nicole Hernandez 317 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 2: and other people whose names I can't remember right now, 318 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: but a lot of different scientists, activists, journalists. Because we 319 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 2: did want to make the science accurate. We were trying 320 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 2: to strike a balance where if you were a climate 321 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 2: nerd and you think about this all day long, and 322 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 2: you eat and sleep and breathe it, you would not 323 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 2: be so turned off by our inaccuracies as to not 324 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 2: watch the show like you might go like, Eh, that's 325 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 2: not you know, one thousand billion percent perfect, but like 326 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: I get it. You know, you would feel like we 327 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 2: had done our homework. You would feel like we were respectful. 328 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 2: We also had researchers on staff throughout the whole process, 329 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 2: through all of writing and all of production, to provide 330 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 2: research for anybody who needed it. So if someone was 331 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 2: writing an episode and we talk about wet bulb temperature, 332 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 2: they could just email the researcher and be like, send 333 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 2: me everything about what wet bulb is, how it works, 334 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 2: what physic consequences would happen if someone were outside in 335 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: a high degree wet bulb situation, What would happen to 336 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 2: their organs? 337 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 3: What would happen to their bodies? Who's off run him? 338 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: WHOZI you're additional cargo? 339 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 3: What's wrong with them? 340 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: Idiot was out collecting data during goddamn daylight. 341 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 3: When we're bounce back to thirty five, he should be dead. 342 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 2: One thing I learned working on this project is that 343 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: people who work in the climate space, especially scientists and researchers, 344 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 2: were so happy to talk to us. I always felt 345 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: awkward contacting them because I was like, oh my gosh, 346 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: you're so important. And busy, and you're gathering all this 347 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 2: data and you're teaching classes and you're writing books, like 348 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 2: you probably don't have any time for me. But everybody 349 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: always said, you're going to reach so many more people. 350 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 2: You know, you're going to make a TV show. Hopefully 351 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 2: lots of people will watch it. Not everyone's going to 352 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: read this article that I'm preparing for this journal, but 353 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 2: I know that people will watch a TV show. So 354 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 2: of course, of course I want to work with you. 355 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 2: And I was really heartened by how eager people were 356 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 2: to come, you know, join and we were able to 357 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 2: get a glacier scientist from NASA to come and talk 358 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 2: about glaciers, and people just want to share their research. 359 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a generosity within the climate sphere in general, 360 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: not just and academia, but even within rival journalists and 361 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: competitive startups. That is just one that's wonderful to see. 362 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: There's more for collaboration than there's for competition. 363 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, people were so generous, People were so kind, people 364 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 2: were so available to any question that we had to 365 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 2: try to make the show as accurate as possible, And 366 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 2: it really surprised me and warmed my heart. 367 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: Extra Pollutions has a star studded cast Sienna Miller, Kid Harrington, 368 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: Edward Norton, Toby McGuire, and even Merrill Streep doing the 369 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: voice of a vail. 370 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 3: We who are us share the world all that is there. 371 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 4: When it becomes less suity. 372 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: What does it say that so many big names wanted 373 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: to work on a climate TV show? 374 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 2: I think it shows how eager people are. I mean 375 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: it felt sort of like the conversations with the scientists 376 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 2: where you call up and you say, hi, I'm working 377 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 2: on climate change, and people want to hear what you 378 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: have to say next. You know, if the scripts were terrible, 379 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 2: I don't know that they would have come and joined. 380 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: I hope that they also liked the directors, they liked 381 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: the designers, they liked Scott. But I do think there 382 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 2: is a hunger and an eagerness. It felt like something 383 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 2: that was sort of bottled up, really looking for release, 384 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: And when people found out we were doing the show, 385 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 2: they were excited to come on board because they're thinking 386 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 2: about climate change and to think about it and not 387 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: be able to act on it feels bananas. And so 388 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 2: to actually get to do something where you are putting 389 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: your concern into acting is really liberating. 390 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,239 Speaker 1: Since you've finished the show and it's now streaming, you 391 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: have continued to work with writers who are interested in 392 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: telling climate stories. What's that been. 393 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 3: Like, Oh, that's been great. 394 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,959 Speaker 2: So I in a couple of different capacities, am trying 395 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 2: to help all the other people who want to tell 396 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 2: climate stories, sort of like you were saying about the 397 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,719 Speaker 2: generosity between journalists or between entrepreneurs. 398 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: Like bussing it on. 399 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope I put myself out of business. I 400 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: hope I can't sell anything because there are other better 401 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 2: climate storytellers out there. So one capacity has been with 402 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: the Writers Guild. The WGA and the PGA have created 403 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 2: a Climate Storytelling Action Group, and we did a series 404 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: of workshops with the NRDC because the NRDC has also 405 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: gotten very interested in climate storytelling. 406 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: Right, there's a National Resources Defense Counsel or US Climate Philanthropy. 407 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's an environmental nonprofit and they've in the 408 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 2: last five years or so gotten very invested in this 409 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 2: question of where's climate on screen? How do we tell 410 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: climate stories? So we did a series of workshops with 411 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: writers just sort of laying the groundwork of here's what 412 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 2: climate change is, you know, here's how it functions. Here 413 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 2: are ways it could be in stories. I'm also a 414 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 2: mentor for the NRDC has a program I think it's 415 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 2: called Rewrite the Future. They pair young screenwriters with not 416 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 2: young screenwriters. And I'm about to meet on Monday with 417 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 2: a woman who's written a climate television pilot to talk 418 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 2: to her about her climate television pilot. You know, my 419 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 2: advice that she can take her leave, but how to 420 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 2: tell climate stories. 421 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: You're collaborator on this. Scott C. Burns said. One of 422 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: the inspirations for doing this was a book written by 423 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: Amitav Ghosh called The Great Derangement. And the case that 424 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: Amitav has made is that fiction writers, I'm not thinking 425 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: about climate change enough. Not that there isn't climate fiction 426 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: where you take a certain future and run with it 427 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: and see what characters do in that future. He's more 428 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: concerned about climate change as it's happening now or in 429 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:21,239 Speaker 1: the believable real world. Would you characterize what extrapolations is 430 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: it's closer to Amitav's call for fiction or is it 431 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: climate fiction? 432 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 2: I think it's much closer to fiction that is based 433 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 2: in reality. You know, people talk about climate fiction as 434 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 2: though it's this particular genre, and they'll ask us, oh, 435 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: so you're making a science fiction show about climate and 436 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 2: I'll always say, well, actually, all of the current shows 437 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 2: on TV that are taking place right now or in 438 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: the near future that don't portray climate change like those 439 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 2: are the science fiction shows. Those are the shows that 440 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: are taking an imaginative leap because it is currently happening. 441 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: We are already living in a one point one degrece 442 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 2: elsius is in a world. I mean the number of 443 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 2: times that I'll see something in the news that looks 444 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 2: like something that we shot is daily. 445 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: It'd probably says something about me that my favorite episode 446 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: was episode four, which is really an exploration of geoengineering. 447 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: It's focused so much on the geopolitics, on the decision making, 448 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: on the science and the uncertainties. 449 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 4: In the past, I was an advocate for something called geoengineering. Okay, 450 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 4: and my very famous ex wife and I put a 451 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 4: lot of resource and focus into not just imagining it, 452 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 4: but contemplating how would you actually do it? 453 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 2: She called it the biggest and the brightest new business 454 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 2: opportunity of the century At Davos. 455 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 3: Here's the thing we were wrong. 456 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: Geoengineering is a subject that just rubs people one way 457 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: or the other and creates all these controversies, and to 458 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: portray it in a way that gets those points across 459 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: while feeling compelling was really well done. 460 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 3: Thank you. 461 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 2: I loved working on episode four. I had a great 462 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: time I was on set. I think every day I think. 463 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 2: Something about Episode four that I also hope people take 464 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 2: away is that climate change contains a ton of controversies. 465 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: The controversy is not is it happening. That's not a controversy. 466 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: It's happening. The world is warmart we did it, But 467 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 2: within that, what do we do about it? Is an 468 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: open and live question, and lots of really smart, thoughtful 469 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 2: people have really different feelings and thoughts about that, and 470 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 2: that makes good television. You know, an argument about do 471 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 2: we do this or do we not do this? I 472 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 2: hope we gave both sides of that argument the best 473 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 2: possible case to make. Like that was our intention is 474 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 2: we didn't want to make anybody mean or bad, or 475 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 2: dumb or inarticulate. We wanted them to be the brightest 476 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 2: and most passionate advocates for their point of view, so 477 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 2: that people could watch that debate play out and come 478 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: to their own conclusions. 479 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: And because it's about the future, the future does actually 480 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: get better in many ways. There are technologies like a 481 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: drug that is printed at home. But the other side 482 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: of the coin, I come from India. I grew up there. 483 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: I now live in the UK, but a lot of 484 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: the episodes, apart from the one India episode, are based 485 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: very much in the US, have very much the sort 486 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: of rich people living their lives in comfortable surroundings in 487 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: really nice houses. How did you choose to focus mostly 488 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: on that world? 489 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 2: Some of that was about who we felt our audience 490 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 2: would be. You know, it's a show on Apple TV plus. 491 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 2: Apple tv plus subscribers are mostly people who have a 492 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 2: little bit of extra disposable income, mostly live in the West, 493 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 2: and I think we wanted to say that this is 494 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: a show that shows that their own lives will be disrupted. 495 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 2: I think it's really complicated and tricky when you talk 496 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 2: about a universal problem with disparate impact, as I think 497 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: we saw with COVID. We don't want to say that 498 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: you'll be fine, but you also do want to say 499 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 2: we won't all experience it equally, And that was I 500 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 2: think the conversation we were trying to straddle was to say, hey, 501 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: upper middle class Apple TV Plus watchers, this could come 502 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: for you too. This could impact a child in your 503 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 2: family's health, This could impact you know, houses in Malibu 504 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: catch on fire as well. You know, we didn't want 505 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 2: to say just because you're wealthy, you'll be able to 506 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: insulate yourself completely. But it is tricky. I certainly think 507 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: there are episodes we could have done that focused more 508 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 2: on other countries, that focused more on not rich people 509 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 2: within the US. We're capturing a certain slice of certain lives, 510 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 2: and there's a lot that we left on the table 511 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 2: in terms of other lives and other lifestyles that we 512 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: didn't show. 513 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: Is there a risk that people watch the show, especially 514 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: wealthy people, and go, it's not the complete shit show 515 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: that we thought it will be. Therefore, I don't need 516 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: to worry about it as much as people think I 517 00:29:58,600 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: should worry about it. 518 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 3: I guess there's a risk of that. 519 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 2: I feel like it's pretty bleak by the time you 520 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 2: get to episode seven, like people are in you know, 521 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: oxygen masks and you know, roaming a you know, I 522 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: think it's pretty bleak, and I would hope that even 523 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 2: very rich people can watch it and say I'd rather 524 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 2: not know. 525 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 3: Thank you. 526 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: Will there be a season two? Man? 527 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 3: I hope. 528 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,479 Speaker 2: So that's not my choice, that's Apple's choice. But I 529 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: know that Scott and I have a lot of other stories, 530 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 2: especially the stories that we were talking about that we 531 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 2: weren't able to tell, that we would love to get 532 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: to tell in a season two. 533 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: Which would be a different extra relations where maybe we 534 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: actually keep it under one point five degree celsias. 535 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's the great thing about the conceit 536 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 2: of the show, as we can extrapolate in any direction 537 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 2: we want. 538 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: I could talk about this for a long time. There 539 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: was so much in there in the TV series that 540 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: I think we didn't explore, And I hope viewers get 541 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: to watch extra pay and maybe there's a season two. 542 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the show. 543 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. 544 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: If you watch extrapolations, tweet at me and tell me 545 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: who your favorite character was. Mine is Madam from episode four. 546 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: You heard a clip of her earlier talking about the 547 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: idiot who went out during a wet bulb temperature event. 548 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: This is part three of our mini series talking about 549 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: climate storytelling. I hope you've enjoyed the series. If you've 550 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: not already listened to the other episodes, check out our 551 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: interviews with climate fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson and investigative 552 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: journalist Amy Westerbelt. Thank you for listening to Zero. If 553 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: you liked this episode, please take a moment to rate, review, 554 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Send it to 555 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: a friend or someone who spends longer working out what 556 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: to watch on TV than actually watching TV. Get in 557 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: touch at zero pod at Bloomberg dot Net. Zero's producer 558 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: is Oscar Boyd and senior producer is Christine Driskell. Our 559 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: theme music is composed by Wonderly Special Thanks this week 560 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: to John frar Mesabo and Kira Bindr. I'm Akshatrati back 561 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: next week.