WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Dorothy Arnold 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:16.079 Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know stories of 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:21.560 things we don't know the answer too. Well. Hi there, 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.959 welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. We're the 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.160 guys who tackle unsolved mysteries and solve the heck out 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:33.840 of them. Guys. Yeah, we're the guys and gang. Sorry. Yeah, 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:38.080 so I am joined as always by Devin and Steve. Yeah, 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.480 and so let's just dive head first into another mystery. Okay, 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.199 for I forget. This is a listener suggested episode, So 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.000 I want to give a big shout out to Ash 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.880 from England. Thanks. Ash. Wait, if we're a gang, do 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.280 we have hand signs? Have hand signs, have colors? We 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:58.160 have goodnape like this and then this one with a finger. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:04.080 Yeah yeah, and there's a bird. Okay, alright, So, so 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.560 our mystery this week Dorothy Arnold. Some of you may 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.480 have heard of Dorothy Arnold. This is actually, um a 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:12.720 hundred years ago kind of a huge thing and it 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.560 got worldwide publicity. Let me talk a little bit about her. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:21.680 Dorothy Harriett Camille Arnold. Was I know grandma and grandma's 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.920 names or something like that. Yeah, her mother had like 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.240 five names. That's kind of a rich people thing, I think. 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.200 But anyway, she was the daughter of Francis and Mary Arnold. 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.040 Francis Arnold was a stinking rich perfume and porter. Uh. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.280 They lived in a very posh Manhattan house just to 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.360 block east of Central Park, very nice part of town. 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.800 They were listed in the Social Register, which is a 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.040 big deal for rich people. You probably, guys have probably 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:51.000 heard of the Social Register, right, yeah, hell, you're on it. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:56.920 I'm not to. Dorothy was a socialite, and definition of 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.000 socialite is quote someone who was well known in fashionable 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.760 society and spends a significant amount of time participating in 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:06.840 social activities such as parties and other fashionable events. That's 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.240 from Wikipedia. Parties, by the way, which none of us 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:16.799 ever get invited to. Well, Steve does, obviously. Social Register. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:18.799 I said, to screw the mystery. I'm gonna spend the 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.680 next hour just ranting about the one percent. Okay, yeah, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:26.600 I'm cool. How about you? No, I think that's done. 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.320 Ok alright, let's solve the mystery. Then back to Dorothy. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:34.800 On Monday December twelfth, nineteen ten, so hundred four years ago, 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.640 Dorothy left the family house in the morning, saying that 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.880 she was going to go shopping for a dress for 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:46.240 her her sister's debutante. Yeah again, more more rich, socialized stuff. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:50.280 She was it wasn't even yeah exactly, so she had 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:52.000 to have she had to obviously go buy a new 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.520 dress for that. Yeah. Anyway, she left the house to 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.799 go shopping and the family never saw her again. And 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.480 this was this was a huge deal. I mean, got 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.760 a lot of publicity and everybody was wanting what happened. 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.400 It was all over the newspapers. Yeah, the family and 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.800 their investigators were able to piece together her trail, at 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.600 least some of her trail where she went before she disappeared. 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:15.600 So first off, she went to a store at seven 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.799 and fifth Avenue. Can we talk about New York and 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.400 the way that they do streets and how confusing that is? 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.360 Please yes, because I still see this and it's still 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:31.600 confuses that it's it's it's it's avenues run one way 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.080 in streets run the other. Is that correct? Kind of 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.160 like Vancouver? You know you guys have been to the 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:41.960 Coup Washington, Washington, Yes, yeah, yeah, it's like I don't 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:43.920 I don't know which one is north south and which 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.520 one is east west? But is it is avenues one 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:48.920 way and streets the other, so I could literally be 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:53.040 on Fifth and Fifth potentially. Yeah, I know, it just 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.480 kind of dumb, but it is what it is. I 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.760 don't think they're gonna just enraged so many New Yorkers 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.880 the Waitland does it is so much better. I know 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.760 names of people that nobody knows. Yeah, I know. Well, 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.600 so anyway, I've taken the liberty of printing up this map, 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:11.960 which I got off a Google so you can see 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.240 the upper right hand corner where she started from and 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.240 the place where she went to buy. She stopped at 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.800 the store and bought half a pound of chocolate, which 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:24.920 is down here, which is five yeah, and that's two 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:26.960 and a half miles away, so she could hook it. 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:29.520 But I didn't mention. By the way, Dorothy was twenty 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.159 five and apparently like to walk, so she headed south 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:33.800 to and a half miles and then headed back north 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.080 to a bookstore. But you know, like that's an hour 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:41.839 walk really, Yeah, you've got a day ye walk. Yeah, 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.800 she's not in a huge harry or anything. She bought 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.560 a half a pound of chocolate, brought half chocolate, and 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.800 then she went to a bookstore. The bookstore is Brentano's, which, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:52.680 by the way, it was in an episode of Seinfeld. 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.400 It was actually it was actually a New York Landmark 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.400 bookstore for many, many years before it got absorbed by Borders. 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.440 And I soon Borders is out of business right now 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.360 but almost Yeah, actually, yeah, I can't think of the 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.320 last time I saw brick and mortar Borders. Yeah, Bars 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.200 of Noble somehow still around. Borders. Yeah, I think I've 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.920 seen Borders in malls and that's the only place I've 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.040 seen him, and that was years ago. This episode of 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:17.040 Thinking Sideways podcast brought to you by Borders, brought to 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.919 you by defunct bookstores. I'll be our next mysteries. What 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.440 where did all the bookstores go? Oh? Anyway, so she 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.119 stopped at this bookstore and bought a book by somebody 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.039 you'd never heard of, Jane Calvin something. I did a 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.120 google on her. I couldn't find anything. But anyway, apparently 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.320 she was popular a hundred years ago. But she left 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.560 the paper trail at these stores because she charged her 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:43.599 purchases to the family accounts. Okay, both places, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:45.480 I kind of a sweet dealer family. Of course, as 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.320 I said, it was stinking rich. She got a hundred 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.800 dollars in a monthly allowance, which is the equivalent of 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.719 d and forty dollars today today's dollars. And you know, 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.000 she had to pay did net to paying rent, didn't 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.440 have to pay utilities, didn't net paper food. Plus she 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.320 could go out opping and charge things to the family 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:06.000 accounts on top of her allowance she had. I think 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.239 I saw, I saw I mentioned that she had thirty 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:12.920 or forty in her possession. Yeah, I think the family 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:17.200 estimated she left the house. Yeah, I remember reading this. 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.239 She had a day or two before gone out with friends, 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:24.560 and I think she took her friends to a movie, 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.160 and then they had gotten food afterwards, and she had 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.440 gone to the bank and gotten thirty six dollars out 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.679 of the bank, which seems like such a funny number 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.640 to us today, But then was obviously a large sell 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:36.760 of cats that was probably seven or eight hundred bucks, 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.520 right and then and then they knew how much she 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.600 should have approximately spent at these locations, so they figured 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:47.039 she had about twenty five dollars give currency at that 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.400 for that time period on her, which again is a 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.640 pretty decent some money. It's you know, a couple hundred bucks. Yeah, 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.400 but it's not like, you know, runaway to the hills, 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.920 finance the rest of your life money. You know, it's 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.640 that weird middle ground. Yeah. Anyways, I think that's worth mentioning. Yeah, 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.640 more on that later, but okay, anyway, so after the bookstore, 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.360 she outside the bookstore, she ran into a friend of her, 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.160 his name Gladys King, and they chatted for a bit, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.760 parted ways. And this wasn't about in the afternoon, according 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.520 to Gladys, And that was the last time she was 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.720 seen by anybody who knew her. She literally evaporated from 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:26.880 the streets the last time. The last time wasn't It 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:29.840 wasn't didn't. The story go that Gladys turned around a 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.480 second time to wave goodbye and saw her at and 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:39.200 sall basically a couple of blocks away or something like that. Yeah, 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.160 but yeah, and so that was it. So yeah, she 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.920 just sort of vanished from the earth into the history books. 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.600 Over the following months, many people from across the country 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.520 claimed to a senior because after the news got out, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.200 people were phoning in, phoning in tips from all around 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.200 the country claiming they had senior uh and the family 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:57.880 being rich, she had a lot of money, to actually 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.240 send detectives out to follow up on all these aids, 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.400 and so they were. They were mostly followed up on, 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.520 and none of them panned out unfortunately. So when she 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.200 didn't return home in the evening, her parents started calling 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.360 all of her friends looking for Nobody knew what had 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.760 happened to her. Now, now let me take a break here, 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.360 before we were launching more history and theories. Here's a 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.280 few things about her life just before the disappearance. And 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.240 I'm talking about these things now because they'll have a 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:26.080 little bearing later on the story. Okay, Number one, Dorothy 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.120 was interested in being a writer, and she had actually 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.280 written two short stories and submitted to a magazine called 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.520 The Clures, which I've never heard of, but they're probably 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.640 gone by now, and they were rejected, which left her 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.880 feeling a bit depressed apparently, which I just think I was. 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.040 Steph and I were chatting about this earlier, and I 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:49.840 was just thinking, how, I guess cute and funny it 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.400 is not to be, you know, the dismissive of this, 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.640 the impact that this can have on someone, But how 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.640 kind of cute and funny it is that she like 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.920 submitted to papers and they got rejected. And she was like, well, shucks, 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.280 my career as a writer is over. I know, it's 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:07.320 like a little bit more persistence, yeah, or you know, 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:12.560 maybe submit to another magazine that might be more interested 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:17.040 in your writing style. She was aiming for the top only. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:19.920 But then again that you know, if you do the 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.200 reading the readings on this. Her family knew that she 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:25.840 was a writer, so there's all this talk about how 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.480 they were mocking her for trying to write. Mclars is 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.240 the only place that I think she submitted two to 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:36.880 them and one to another magazine something like that. Let's 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:41.960 think about nine. There are tons and tons of magazines 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.880 and newspapers and rags around that you can submit to. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.520 And I'm not going to cast any aspersions on her, 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.760 but I think that maybe a bit of her social 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.080 status told her that she had to only go for 0:09:55.679 --> 0:10:01.640 these particular ones. Then I am from the upper class, 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.679 so I must write for the New York You just 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.720 cut my teeth and I'll get my stuff published wherever 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.640 I can get it published, because that's the way. All 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.680 of the good writers in this this world have gone 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.640 about it well and currently got it published by crap people, 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.280 and eventually they got better and clearly her problem was 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.680 that I'm sure she was sending them on in under 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.800 her own name instead of a male pseudonym. That's another 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.600 good point, another point entirely. And I think the actually 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.000 women writers were kind of accepted back in those days. 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:37.680 They were not so much. There were some women writers. 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:44.200 But when did suffrage happen? When did the suffrage movement? Yeah, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:50.200 so this is I'm sorry, the nineteen thirties. No, no, 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.000 it was the early nine hundreds, late eighteen hundreds. Okay, 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.440 so but this is this is when all that's happening, 0:10:55.440 --> 0:11:00.480 and there's still a huge bit of massage is not 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.800 the right word. It's some of that, and it's it's 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.680 the old boys society, it's this and when clean the 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.640 house and that's children. And that's why Dorothy was a socialite, 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.640 because you know, I mean, you know, maybe maybe today 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.800 she'd actually be doing something useful back and back in 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.240 those days. And now you're rich and uh, you're not 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.120 expected to actually do anything like become a dentist or 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.400 a lawyer or anything like that, and that as a woman. 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:31.040 If she had said it in under the name of 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:36.400 Dawn instead of Dorothy, it might have gotten picked up 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.280 they're like, well, Dog's not that great of a writer, 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:42.280 but we'll publishing stuff. It's okay. Well, the thing about 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.280 it is, too, is I forget what the title of 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.240 one of the stores was. It was like there's something 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.000 Phoenix or the like. It was like the point in 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.200 the Flame. Yeah, and you know, I mean, if you 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.160 want exactly what, it should have a title like pork 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.200 Shop Hill. So what we're saying is she should have 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:01.840 been submitting to Harlequin. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, she gave up. Obviously. 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.720 I thought we didn't see the notes. It might have 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.679 been quite brutal and just like you know, dear miss Arnold, 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.840 thanks for submitting your excrescence. Please don't ever do that again. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.360 You don't know, yeah, we I mean, and I don't 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:17.240 know if when they sent rejection letters, if they actually 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:21.400 sent it back all marked up. I mean, that crush somebody. 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.720 If somebody sent back your manuscript and they had taken 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.719 the time to red pen it. I don't think they did. 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:28.520 And I don't think they don't think they were even 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.760 return your manuscript. I think they just sent you a letter. 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.760 And but that's what I'm getting to the point of 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.000 the way that it's portrayed. At how strongly she took 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.440 the rejection. You would think that somebody had taken the 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.680 time to red pen all of her work and send 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.480 it back and say all of these things are wrong, no, 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.640 thank you that, or you know, she was the daughter 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.200 of a very wealthy family and was not used to 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.720 being said no to good point, good, very good point. 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.080 I mean just saying yeah. Or maybe she just a 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.320 really bad writer and she just couldn't perceive this. But anyway, 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.040 we're kind of getting off into the weeds too, all right, 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.560 So I mentioned her her abortive writing career. Also, what 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.480 else happened before she disappeared. Dorothy asked her father she 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:16.440 could move out of the house and get an apartment 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:18.959 in Greenwich Village where she could write and be all 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.439 artistic and stuff and some day meet Bob Dylan. Yeah 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:30.080 that that said no. It was twentieth century, so yeah, 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:31.920 he said no, And he said something on the order 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:33.719 of a good writer can write anywhere, so you can 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.440 write in your bedroom, honey. I felt like that's a 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:41.439 great answer, though, I mean, okay, we've already gone on 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.360 the weeds once, but I'm gonna stand up for dad 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.360 here a little bit. I already pay for all of 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.160 this kid's stuff, and I give her an allowance. And 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.520 by the way, living at home is free, and at 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.360 home is relatively free. But now you want to get 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.640 an apartment, which means you want me to pay for 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.480 set apartment and all of your bills. Well, yeah, and yeah, 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.520 and on top of that, you know, I think back 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.440 in those days that a woman moving out of the 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.360 house before she actually found a husband and got married. 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.880 I was going to say, in those days, if you 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.679 were not actively courting someone suitable to your parents liking, 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.880 you were probably not doing super well according to your parents. Yeah, 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.480 she was. She was actually courting somebody. We'll talk about 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.680 that a little bit here. But he was he was 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:33.600 not suitable parents Yeah, yeah, his his. Her dad did 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:35.920 make a remark on on the lines of he wouldn't 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.280 mind her dating more guys at all, just not worthless 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:43.480 guys or something. Let's talk about. Yeah, so, speaking of 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:47.880 that guy. In September nine, about three months before she disappeared, 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.040 Dorothy told her parents she was going to go visit 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:54.040 a former college classmate in Boston. She did go to Boston, 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.240 but she didn't hang much with her classmate, but she 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:00.400 spent the week with a guy named George Griscombe Jr. Yeah, 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:02.840 I think I think it's Griscom, might might be Grissom 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:07.280 or something like that. Let's go for Griscomb. Yeah. Uh. 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.760 He was from a rich family in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. They 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.320 were all proper about it. They stayed in separate hotels, 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.840 not just separate rooms, but separate hotels. Uh. So maybe 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.000 no copulation occurred, We don't know, but a lot of 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.720 the Dorothy Arnold diarists out there think that it did, 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:25.560 and it forms the basis for a lot of their 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.680 ideas about why she disappeared. So a little bit more 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:34.160 about him, George Grissom, Griscomb. She was seeing him, and 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.840 obviously there was something going on there, but Dorothy's father 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:41.200 basically forbade him from forbade her from seeing him because 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.280 even though he was rich, he came from a good family, 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.400 he was considered to be by Dorothy Mr. Arnold, to 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.160 be a worthless Yeah. I mean he was. He was 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:54.400 like forty something to right and living at home and 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:58.560 kind of just like living off of his parents money 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.480 pretty much. I wasn't earning anything for himself. Yeah. I 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.240 had heard that he Um, he went to law school 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.600 and had a law degree and was was working as 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:11.800 a contract lawyer, so doing contract law, but apparently not 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.280 working too terribly hard. And still you know, if you're 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.280 forty two and still living at home, you're really not 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.840 very ambitious, let's face. Yeah, well, sorry, you're not forty two, 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:25.720 that's true. Yeah, yeah, he wasn't not making it. Yeah, 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.760 thanks Joe. Yeah, I'm just kidding. Feel better about my 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.440 life now. I'm not going to go throw myself off 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.720 a bridge like Dorothy did. Oh no, wait, I'm sorry, 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.480 you're getting a ohet of the ending. No, she didn't 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.960 really throw herself up a bridge. So George was not 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:46.160 a suitable suitor, not in the eyes of Dad. Yeah. Anyway, 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.040 But the folks didn't actually find out about this Boston 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.000 thing with with Griscom until after the disappearance, when apparently 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.720 the Boston police discovered that Dorothy had pawned five hundred 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.280 bucks worth of jewelry to pay for her hotel room. 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.880 And this is going to observe that if copulation actually 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.040 had occurred, you would think that Griscombe would have paid 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.800 her hotel bill at least as a gentleman. You think 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.400 the classic well, you know, and and he didn't sound 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.359 like he had a lot of class. Well he might 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.160 have been on a short least. Maybe the folks didn't 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.320 give him a huge allowance. I think I think we 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.560 need to back up here a little bit. Yeah, I 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.800 think we've missed a salient point in this story, which 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:28.280 is so she disappeared and then now we're talking about 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.640 like some of the investigation that found Griscomb. But I 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.240 think what's important for people to understand is the cops 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:40.800 weren't brought in until three weeks later. Two weeks later. 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.000 It was weeks later because they were keeping it under 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.800 the rug. They called their lawyer, and the lawyer looked 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:51.280 for her. Not the lawyer didn't. He hired a private investigation. 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.200 He actually did a lot of look in too. But 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.080 but the thing is is that I think people don't 0:17:56.160 --> 0:18:00.480 understand this. This didn't become a full fledged investigation right away. 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.520 She disappeared. They didn't say anything because there's that weird 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:06.520 thing that cops for a while, because you know, they 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.080 probably probably were thinking that there could be something scandalous here, 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.360 like they're gonna search for and then when she turns up, 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:14.639 she's going to be like, you know, shacked up in 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.320 a hotel room with some dude something like that. But 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.520 I want to keep they wanted to keep it quiet. 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:23.000 There was all kinds of rumors of of weird stuff 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.600 that they did. Somebody called the house or one of 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:30.800 her girlfriends called the house tonight she disappeared and her 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:36.399 mother said, yeah, she's here, Oh can I talk to her? Um, No, 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.920 she's asleep in bed with a headache or something. Yeah, 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.560 which is I mean, there's a lot of weird things 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.600 about this story, and I think that it's that natural 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.920 tendency of people with money to try to hide anything 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.159 that's going on. But it's it's an important point for 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.800 people to understand that it wasn't suddenly the police were 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.159 investigating her disappearance. There's a time lag here, whre was 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.600 always a detriment acord investigation. Yeah, well hell yeah, but 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.480 according to some accounts the time leg was most accounts 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.720 actually the time leg was six weeks before they talked 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.240 to the cops. Yeah, but they well, yeah, they supposedly 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.600 hired Pinkerton detect which is fairly famous agency as it 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.160 turns out. Yeah, although actually in a in a newspaper 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:24.200 account that I read of it. The newspaper account kind 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:25.959 of kind of made it clear that the police had 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.160 actually been brought in much earlier, like a week after. Yeah, 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.680 but he didn't. They didn't actually go public until about 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.640 six weeks after. Okay, See, when I was the articles 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:42.320 I came across, insinuated that there it had been multiple weeks, 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.360 but that might be just when it was released. It's 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.040 also hard to tell, you know, again, Stephen, I were 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.000 talking about this earlier, and we were talking about the 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.760 fact that, you know, late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:56.480 all of these articles kind of just read like People magazine, 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.119 do you know. And it may be, you know, slight 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.520 differences in the writing styles things like that, but a 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.960 lot of it is just kind of, well, we heard 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.639 from a source that so and so knows that so 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.600 and so knows that so and so said, blah blah 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.560 blah blah blah. You know, it's it reads like a 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:16.479 gossip column kind of more than virtual I we're used to. 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.440 But I was going to talk about this in a 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.440 little bit, and there's this article from the Pittsburgh Press 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:23.760 that came out in nineteen fourteen that was a big 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:25.680 game changer for the whole thing, and it was like, 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.400 and the article contradicts itself, it's kind of incoming. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.959 it kind of kind of protradicts itself. But anyway, more 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.040 on that later. Alright, So, the Arnold family asked a 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.199 friend who was also a lawyer, whose name is His 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.160 name was John Keith, and they hired him to try 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:47.639 to find Dorothy so Keith. Dorothy Keith was a lawyer 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.880 and not a private eye, so I think I suspect 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.040 that they hired him because of attorney client privilege. That 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.400 would make sense. Yeah, they wanted to keep it low 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:57.600 and plus he was a family friend, so he could 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.480 be expected to keep it on the d L. So yeah, 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.000 and as we said, they didn't want publicity. They reportedly 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.800 didn't tell the police for six weeks, although maybe it 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.000 was less than that. But the police managed to keep 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.040 quiet about the whole thing. Although that's kind of surprising 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:15.760 because police even these days are kind of corrupted New York. Yeah, 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.760 they are not, like, you know, sell information to reporters. 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.120 But that would be a good reason to keep him out. 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:23.639 So anyway, John Keith came over to the house and 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.960 searched her room looking for clues apparently all of her 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.800 stuff was their clothes and everything else for the one 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.000 outfit she was wearing. Right, of course, yeah she had 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:33.840 to go out. She couldn't go out naked for christ sake. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.080 Well yeah, unless she could, but yeah she didn't. That 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.280 would be looked upon with this favor. But he found 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.840 some burned papers in the fireplace, which everybody assumed were 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.160 just the manuscripts that ned had been rejected by the clures. 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.480 You know again, come on, Dorothy, you know, man up. 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.280 Send that to somebody else under a phony name, Send 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:59.280 a cracked man. They'd accept it. H they found brochurest cracked, 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:05.679 they probably would. What else is the one thing that 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.280