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Speaker 1: Previously on Weedian House.

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Speaker 2: When you're talking about young people and homelessness, I think

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Speaker 2: there's a different approach to take and recognize that it

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Speaker 2: is a thing that is happening.

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Speaker 1: I want more visibility.

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Speaker 2: We can end youth homelessness, and that's preventing people from

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Speaker 2: ending up in the adult system, and those numbers can

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Speaker 2: keep going down.

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Speaker 3: What we as advocates are trying to say is we

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Speaker 3: have been given some resources in the youth system. We

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Speaker 3: have some intentionality, really thought about this and I made

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Speaker 3: some progress, but we need more, Like can you imagine

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Speaker 3: the impact that we would have if the youth system

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Speaker 3: was actually funded the way that it should be funded,

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Speaker 3: because it's been underfunded for a long time.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Whedian House. I'm your host, Theo Henderson. To

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Speaker 4: criminalize and to dehumanize, that is the question of this episode.

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Speaker 4: But first Unhoused News. Our first story takes us to

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Speaker 4: Fort Lauderdale, Florida. On October one, twenty twenty four, a

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Speaker 4: new ordinance against the young house, preventing them from sleeping

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Speaker 4: in parks, on sidewalks, and in other public places, went

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Speaker 4: into effect. It is now against the law to be

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Speaker 4: unhoused in Fort Lauderdale and Miami Dade County, as well

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Speaker 4: as other parts of Florida. Governor Ron Decentis lauded this measure,

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Speaker 4: saying we must think about public safety. Neon housed will

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Speaker 4: be arrested if found sleeping in public. There are currently

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Speaker 4: sixteen hundred unhoused people around Fort Lauderdale, and this was

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Speaker 4: before Hurricane Milton hit Florida. While Fort Lauderdale wasn't directly impacted,

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Speaker 4: they may be indirectly impacted by the number of people

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Speaker 4: leaving impacted areas. This is a developing story and we

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Speaker 4: will keep you updated. Our next story takes us to Tucson, Arizona,

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Speaker 4: where another horror story is unfolding. Dozens of unhoused residents

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Speaker 4: at Santa Rita Park Encampment were swept on September twenty fifth.

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Speaker 4: Many of the unhoused have stated they had no idea

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Speaker 4: where they're going to go. With Grant's paths looming large

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Speaker 4: over the country, this measure seems to be spreading like

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Speaker 4: a virus. The city claims the residents are refusing services,

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Speaker 4: but the residents state the requirements of shelter are unreasonable.

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Speaker 4: Many of the residents have pets and the shelter stay

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Speaker 4: is only three days before you move back onto the street. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 4: in California Beach City, near the Mexican border, sewage is

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Speaker 4: causing major hardship for both houses and unhoused people. The

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Speaker 4: smells alone can knock the most hearty of marine animals.

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Speaker 4: Heavy metals, toxic chemicals, and bacteria including E. Coli, has

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Speaker 4: been detected in the water, according to a San Diego

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Speaker 4: State University report released last month. Researchers call the contamination

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Speaker 4: a public health crisis. Over the last five years, over

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Speaker 4: one hundred billion gallons of untreated sewage has flowed through

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Speaker 4: Mexico's Tijuana River and into the Pacific Ocean, contaminating the air, water,

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Speaker 4: and the soil, imposing environmental and public health risk. Our

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Speaker 4: final story farm worker activists the Loris World, who co

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Speaker 4: founded the movement along with brother in law Caesar Chavez,

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Speaker 4: is officially endorsing Mayor London Brieve, who is aggressively targeting

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Speaker 4: the unhoused. This is a clear example of being invested

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Speaker 4: in one's own oppression and their legacy for creating justice

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Speaker 4: and equal rights for displaced people in her time is

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Speaker 4: called into question, and that's in house news when we

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Speaker 4: come back, we'll explore the topic of criminalizing and demonizing

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Speaker 4: unhouse people.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Weedi in House.

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Speaker 4: Today we're going to listen to a first hand account

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Speaker 4: from a resident from Portland, Oregon who's being criminalized for

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Speaker 4: helping the unhoused community.

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Speaker 1: Please welcome Chatty. I'm so glad we finally connected and

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Speaker 1: finally got on the show.

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Speaker 4: I was worried that we'ld never get a chance to

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Speaker 4: do this. Thank you for taking the time to talk

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Speaker 4: with us. So tell us a little bit about yourself

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Speaker 4: and then we can take the conversation to the next level.

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Speaker 5: So my name is Jay If. I'd moved to Eugene,

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Speaker 5: organ almost three years ago, and I've been doing homeless

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Speaker 5: outreach or mutual aid. I don't know. I don't exactly

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Speaker 5: know what I would call what I do, but it's

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Speaker 5: along those lines. I've been doing it for about a

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Speaker 5: solid year now, like really hard here. I've been criminalized

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Speaker 5: for helping folks and I'm currently fighting seven charges in

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Speaker 5: court right now, all related to helping unhouse folks here.

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Speaker 4: It's against the law to help unhouse people there in

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Speaker 4: organ tell us because I'm new to it. Every place

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Speaker 4: has their own evil kind of way of dealing with

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Speaker 4: people that care or want to do something to help

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Speaker 4: the unhouse.

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Speaker 1: So what's going on here?

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Speaker 5: Well, so the city of Eugene is actually has the

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Speaker 5: highest homeless population per cap but in the United States

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Speaker 5: of America, So that's something really important to remember. We've

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Speaker 5: got lots of house folks here, and they like to

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Speaker 5: charge us with things like disorderly conduct, trust passing, violation

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Speaker 5: of park rules, and that is like how they've gone

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Speaker 5: about criminalizing and house folks here. The particular folks that

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Speaker 5: I work with typically live along the railroad tracks. So

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Speaker 5: anytime we're going and doing outreach where you're taking that

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Speaker 5: risk of getting trespassed tickets. So that's kind of how

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Speaker 5: they've got me in is like, oh, well, you're treuspassing

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Speaker 5: because you're on the railroad. My first ticket i'd actually

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Speaker 5: ever gotten as an adult, really ever, I've never really

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Speaker 5: been in trouble was I was ticketed on January tenth.

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Speaker 5: I was going out to check on this particular camp

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Speaker 5: that I am really close with, right as this icetorm

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Speaker 5: was starting. Last year in the PNW. It was really

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Speaker 5: really bad ice storm. My family was without power for

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Speaker 5: twelve days. Our tree, we have a big, beautiful oak

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Speaker 5: tree in the backyard. It fell, and it was really horrible,

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Speaker 5: was hitting our house, like people died during the ice storm.

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Speaker 5: And so I was going out just to check and

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Speaker 5: make sure everyone understood, like the magnitude of this ice

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Speaker 5: storm and what it was supposed to be, like, make

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Speaker 5: sure they had the things they needed. So I was

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Speaker 5: bringing out real pain and things like that. And I

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Speaker 5: found my friend who is seventy she was seventy three

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Speaker 5: at the time. She's had a stroke and she has

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Speaker 5: like a bunch of cats and she loves them, and

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Speaker 5: she would rather be out on the streets with all

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Speaker 5: of her kiddies than in a home. When I found her,

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Speaker 5: her tent had collapsed and she was laying under a

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Speaker 5: tarp and she had blue lips. And I was like,

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Speaker 5: You're not going to bed like this tonight, girl. I'm

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Speaker 5: going to go home. I'm going to get whatever I

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Speaker 5: can out of my house to bring to you to

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Speaker 5: keep you warm and keep you alive during the ice storm.

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Speaker 5: And went back to check on them the next day

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Speaker 5: and bring propane out. And that's when I got my

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Speaker 5: first dress pass ticket.

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Speaker 1: So they wag too like a natural disaster delay and

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Speaker 1: wait to ticket people. That's horrible.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was horrible, and they did horrible things. They

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Speaker 5: came out, they slashed people's tarps. They tried to drin

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Speaker 5: somebody's generator of their oil.

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Speaker 4: They tried to remove the oil out of someone's generator

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Speaker 4: because I know if someone has have generators to keep

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Speaker 4: things going, and or like they have me have a

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Speaker 4: seapap machine or something like that going, or even just

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Speaker 4: you know, just trying to keep things bearable out on

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Speaker 4: an unbearable situation.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, this particular person lets people plug in

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Speaker 5: and keep things charged and keeps people warm and all

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Speaker 5: of that. So yeah, they tried to drain that generator

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Speaker 5: of its oil. One person did leave the tracks that

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Speaker 5: day and he found a spot underneath some stairs and

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Speaker 5: apparently like there's a little board that slides so we

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Speaker 5: could go in and out that got frozen solid. And

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Speaker 5: he was trapped under these stairs for four days with

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Speaker 5: no food, no water, no heat, and he.

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Speaker 6: Thought that was it.

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Speaker 5: He thought that was it. And it was because they

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Speaker 5: left when the police told them to. And this is

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Speaker 5: a typical thing here in Eugenius. They will wait till

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Speaker 5: right before some sort of a storm or really really

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Speaker 5: bad weather to sweep people. And it's because they won't

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Speaker 5: have to store their items. If things are dirty, if

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Speaker 5: they're wet, they've got like a whole restriction of things

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Speaker 5: they don't have to store. But if they're dirty and wet,

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Speaker 5: then they don't have store anything. And so they love

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Speaker 5: to sweep people right before really horrible weather.

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Speaker 4: Because there's a high population of unhoused people. Do you

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Speaker 4: have your share of what we call here nimbi'st people

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Speaker 4: that we call nine in my backyard running up on

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Speaker 4: unhouse people, harassing them and things like that.

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Speaker 1: So what are those experiences like there?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, they're horrible.

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Speaker 5: So for me, I've gone out and stayed in camps

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Speaker 5: just so that I can be a better megaphone for

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Speaker 5: the people and so that I know you know how

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Speaker 5: to be that megaphone for them. And so my first

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Speaker 5: experience was nine days on the railroad tracks. And in

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Speaker 5: one of my I do a lot of tiktoks, and

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Speaker 5: so in one of my videos, I talk about how

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Speaker 5: I felt like we were at a zoo, only we

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Speaker 5: were the animals and people were looking in at us.

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Speaker 5: It was really bad. I've also stayed in places where

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Speaker 5: we've had trucks come out in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 5: flash their lights get us, and red their engines at us.

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Speaker 6: And it's really scary.

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Speaker 5: Because I'm looking around like, okay, well if they charge us,

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Speaker 5: where are we gonna go. People will like bring their

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Speaker 5: trucks out and they'll reb their engines, and like one

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Speaker 5: time when I was out there, this truck was doing

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Speaker 5: that and I started freaking out, like where are we

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Speaker 5: going to go if this truck comes at us? And

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Speaker 5: there was nowhere. We were surrounded by tents, and it

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Speaker 5: was really scary. People will bring their dogs out to

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Speaker 5: camps and have their dogs attack unhoused folks. I probably

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Speaker 5: meet a new person every week who's been hit by

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Speaker 5: a car on purpose. They drove away. Those people went

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Speaker 5: to the hospital for a day or two and then

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Speaker 5: were released right back to the streets. People will pee

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Speaker 5: on their tents like it's just really vile. You know,

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Speaker 5: they have all of these, like you know, things coming

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Speaker 5: at them, whether it's the city or the police or

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Speaker 5: the Nimbi's Yeah, it's crazy.

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Speaker 4: You mentioned you've been doing tiktoks about the situation, this

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Speaker 4: activism that you are doing when did it start? Because

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Speaker 4: I know you said you just moved here recently in Oregon.

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Speaker 4: What made you compelled you to do this kind of thing?

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Speaker 5: I think I've always just been really compassionate for folks

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Speaker 5: that I've seen out on the streets. I'm from a

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Speaker 5: little town in Southeastidaho where we don't have many on

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Speaker 5: house folks, but whenever I did see them, I'd be like, Mom,

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Speaker 5: can we get them some food or can we help them?

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Speaker 5: And so it's always been there. And then I would

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Speaker 5: come to Eugene and I would visit my sister here,

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Speaker 5: and I would always try to go out and do

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Speaker 5: some sort of outreach or some sort of distro to

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Speaker 5: unhoused folks. And one night actually spent an evening with

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Speaker 5: a group of people who were like sitting on the

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Speaker 5: streets and they had a guitar and I was like,

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Speaker 5: can I just like hang out with you guys?

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Speaker 6: And they were like yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I spent hours that night just hanging out with them,

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Speaker 5: asking for money, singing songs, and like getting to know them,

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Speaker 5: asking them their stories. I met a man who had

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Speaker 5: been traveling through He got some sort of a ticket,

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Speaker 5: got put on probation and was stuck in Eugene and

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Speaker 5: was homeless because of that. His name was Matt Bowles.

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Speaker 5: He was really cool. I really liked him. But he

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Speaker 5: really started something in me that was just like, there's

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Speaker 5: so much more to what we think we know about

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Speaker 5: being in house and so that was kind of like

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Speaker 5: really where it started for me was like I want

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Speaker 5: to remind these people that they're important, that if they're valuable,

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Speaker 5: that they're worthy of taking up space, and I want

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Speaker 5: to know their stories, and I just I want to

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Speaker 5: fight for them.

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Speaker 4: Let me ask you something, because I have been informed

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Speaker 4: and I want to make sure to get this clear.

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Speaker 1: Grant's pass.

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Speaker 4: Oregon had a ruling and it was by the Oregon

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Speaker 4: Law Center that filed a ruling. But what do you

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Speaker 4: think generated for them to file this ruling? Why did

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Speaker 4: they file it to the Supreme Court? Because it sounds

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Speaker 4: like this has been ongoing and it wasn't. It just

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Speaker 4: didn't happen out of nowhere all of a sudden they

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Speaker 4: decide to file a lawsuit. But what was going on

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Speaker 4: that made them do this in the first place.

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Speaker 5: So I don't actually know a lot about Grant's past.

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Speaker 5: I just I think people are really hateful and really

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Speaker 5: like they don't have the patience to understand or the

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Speaker 5: care to want to sit down and try to figure

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Speaker 5: out a better solution.

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Speaker 1: What is it? Do you believe the city misunderstands about

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Speaker 1: the young house and the criminalization factor? You think there's

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Speaker 1: any resolution, positive resolution that could be coming from all

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Speaker 1: of this heavy handed approach.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think the only positive thing that will

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Speaker 5: come of it is that maybe we can get more intention,

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Speaker 5: get more people mad enough to stand up and say, like,

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Speaker 5: this is so gross and so inhumane that now we're

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Speaker 5: going to stand up and say something too, because it's

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Speaker 5: gross and it's vile, and it's so cruel and inhumane

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Speaker 5: how they're treated. Some of these people are, you know,

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Speaker 5: the kindest people I've ever met and would do anything

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Speaker 5: to help you. You know, Like these people have like

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Speaker 5: fed me, They've kept me warm, They've taken care of me.

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Speaker 5: I have shelves of gifts they give me, they call,

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Speaker 5: they check in on me. Like I truly love so

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Speaker 5: many of the people out there, and I think that

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Speaker 5: if the city were to just chill out and like

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Speaker 5: meet them and listen to their stories and understand, like

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Speaker 5: survival is not fun, It's not pretty. It's it's frustrating

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Speaker 5: because people need things to survive, and so those things

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Speaker 5: are going to be taken. And I think that's a

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Speaker 5: huge issue that the city has, is like all of

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Speaker 5: these businesses are getting upset because they're losing items that

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Speaker 5: people are taking. We have these walking, living, talking, breathing

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Speaker 5: billboards saying obey or this will be you. And so

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Speaker 5: finding an absolute solution would actually not be beneficial because

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Speaker 5: you know, then the city's not going to have those

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Speaker 5: those billboards and those those scare tactics to keep people complacent.

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Speaker 1: Very true.

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Speaker 4: When you were talking last about the sweep that you

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Speaker 4: guys underwent in July, do you think that had a

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Speaker 4: lot to do with Grant's pass ruling, Because I've noticed

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Speaker 4: an uptick not just in Oregon and where I'm at,

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Speaker 4: And like I just did an episode on Elmonte and

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Speaker 4: I mentioned what they were targeting, and then naturally they

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Speaker 4: used to do the sweeps near the holidays here and

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Speaker 4: they just decided during this hottest week that they could

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Speaker 4: possibly find to do the sweep and they were adamant

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Speaker 4: about it, and they were they didn't postpone it like

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Speaker 4: the city postponing, but the County didn't They just so

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Speaker 4: gung hole did make sure that they displaced people and

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Speaker 4: also wrapped it up to saying that they would want

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Speaker 4: to rest on house people if they came back to

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Speaker 4: those places.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that that played a hand into it?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: That was hard to say, because this sweep has been

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Speaker 5: They've been really trying hard to get it going since January,

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Speaker 5: and we found like loopholes to try to like prolong it.

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Speaker 5: And I think that they really disliked that it was

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Speaker 5: almost like this camp of resistance and that really just

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Speaker 5: didn't sit well with them. I can't say whether or

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Speaker 5: not it had to do with Grant's pass versus Johnson,

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Speaker 5: but like I do think like it's gotten worse progressively

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Speaker 5: worse over the summer, probably due to that. Like I

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Speaker 5: think they have a little more like, yeah, we could

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Speaker 5: do whatever we want to you now.

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Speaker 4: Well, the reason I'm saying that is because it's not

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Speaker 4: I don't think it was an accident.

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Speaker 1: Because you're in Oregon.

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Speaker 4: They were hamstrong initially, and then when Grant's passed ruling happened,

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Speaker 4: there's been people here that governor as well as a

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Speaker 4: couple of the mayors we're excited starting these aggressive sweeps

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Speaker 4: and saying that they're going to keep them up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm seeing like a lot of things happening in

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Speaker 5: cities around Eugene, like long lasting camps that were allowed

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Speaker 5: to be in these like certain certain pieces of land.

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Speaker 5: I'm seeing those be moved. And for example, there's a

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Speaker 5: little place about thirty minutes from us called the Cottage Grove.

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Speaker 5: There were two spaces where people could camp. They displaced

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Speaker 5: them all and said, you guys can relocate over here

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Speaker 5: into this dog park. They had dog kennels set up,

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Speaker 5: like big chaining dog kennels set up for people to

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Speaker 5: go and move into. We're seeing like Roseberg just did

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Speaker 5: a big, big sweep, Clackamiss just did a big sweep.

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Speaker 5: Then they're giving them these pieces of land, but they're

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Speaker 5: like really ridiculous things like you can only come from

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Speaker 5: seven pm to seven am. You have to move every day,

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Speaker 5: you know, and you have to move between this piece

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Speaker 5: of land and this piece of land. It's really weird

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Speaker 5: and confusing, and it's just you know, trying to like

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Speaker 5: dishuffle people and keep them in this like constant trauma response.

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Speaker 5: But we're not seeing that in your gene. There's no

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Speaker 5: spot for people to legally put up a tent in

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Speaker 5: this city.

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Speaker 1: How are they going to survive? Then? Where did they go?

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Speaker 1: That's the next question I would like to know.

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Speaker 5: That's one of the things I ask every single time

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Speaker 5: I have the opportunities. Where do they go? Where do

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Speaker 5: they go? Where do we go? When I'm out there

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Speaker 5: with them? We don't know, they don't know. The shelters

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Speaker 5: here are ran by mainly Saint Vincent de Paul, and

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Speaker 5: so I've actually never gone and stayed at one. I've

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Speaker 5: talked about it, and I get told by my friends

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Speaker 5: on the streets, do not do that. It's not safe

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Speaker 5: for you. I'm getting phone calls of like, Jenni, these

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Speaker 5: are what's happening to me in this shelter. They're really bad.

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Speaker 5: I don't really want to talk about it out loud

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Speaker 5: because I'm scared, you know, Like these guys are a

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Speaker 5: big entity here and there's a lot of money involved.

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Speaker 5: But I can say I really like to find out

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Speaker 5: how to get them audited.

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Speaker 1: Interesting.

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Speaker 5: Most of the time, they've come up with this little

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Speaker 5: app where you can put in you know, like if

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Speaker 5: you have pets, if you have children, if you use drugs,

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Speaker 5: all of these things, and you can find a shelter

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Speaker 5: and typically there's like nine beds available. Most of them

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Speaker 5: are at the mission. The mission has a lot of

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Speaker 5: requirements to stay in, one that you have to take

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Speaker 5: part in their programs. You can't go in as a

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Speaker 5: couple and stay together, like real dehumanizing situations. And I

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Speaker 5: don't blame people for not staying in.

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Speaker 4: Those sounds like they have some universal things that goes

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Speaker 4: on there that that goes on here as well. And

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Speaker 4: how do you deal with the narrative that unhoused people

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Speaker 4: don't want help because you just explain some of the difficulties.

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Speaker 1: Do you hear people saying that on house people don't

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Speaker 1: want help because.

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Speaker 4: You guys, like you said, I have a very high

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Speaker 4: capital fun house people there. You know, I'm sure there's

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Speaker 4: an explanation where there's some observations going on there.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that they're all people, and

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Speaker 5: so they all have different reasons and different wants. A

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Speaker 5: lot of them would like help, but they don't want

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Speaker 5: to feel like they're going to go to prison, which

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Speaker 5: is what these shelters are kind of referred to. I

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Speaker 5: know a few people recently who've been housed. They get

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Speaker 5: put in like these little janky hotel rooms, and that's

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Speaker 5: housing where we have like Condostoga huts around, but they're cold,

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Speaker 5: they're just they're not housing. You know. There are some

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Speaker 5: people who probably have a little more pride, were actually

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Speaker 5: like living out on the streets. They just wish they'd

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Speaker 5: leave them alone.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: Like there's one man named Todd out here, and he

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Speaker 5: built this beautiful two story home on the tracks. He

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Speaker 5: thought he was allowed to be out there because business

379
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Speaker 5: people were bringing him hardware so we could finish this

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Speaker 5: really house. He's been on the news and stuff. He

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Speaker 5: loves keeping his Sarah tidy. He likes to just be

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Speaker 5: left alone. He had little gardens out there, like and

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Speaker 5: Toadd is one of those people that I don't think

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Speaker 5: he wants really any help. He just wanted to be

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Speaker 5: left alone. So I just think it just depends on

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Speaker 5: who you're talking to.

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Speaker 4: If people are listening in Oregon, now, what would be

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Speaker 4: the message that in order to deal with the unhoused

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Speaker 4: crisis that's going on there, what would that message be?

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Speaker 5: I would just say, like, you're not alone, don't give up,

391
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Speaker 5: remember that you are a human and you are valuable,

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Speaker 5: and you were loved and you were cared about. And

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Speaker 5: there are people out here who are trying to fight.

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Speaker 5: Record the freaking cops, record the city because half the

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Speaker 5: sweeps they are doing is illegal. You know, like reach

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Speaker 5: out to people. Usually they're going to be like leftist

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Speaker 5: leaning organizations that are going to want to help fight

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Speaker 5: for you and fight against this. And I don't know,

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Speaker 5: I just just hang in there. You're not alone.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think I've asked most of the question. Is

401
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Speaker 4: there anything that I missed that you want to point out?

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Speaker 5: I think that it just needs to be more attention

403
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Speaker 5: brought to the City of Eugene because we have the

404
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Speaker 5: highest homeless population for captain in the United States of America,

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Speaker 5: and they have an extremely large budget set aside just

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Speaker 5: for this year alone. It's like nineteen point six million dollars,

407
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Speaker 5: and it's like, where the heck is this money going?

408
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Speaker 5: Like where is this money going? And we need to

409
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Speaker 5: put pressure on the city, and we need to put

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Speaker 5: pressure on Saint Vincent de Paul and the way that

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Speaker 5: they're running these shelters, Like these things are really important

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Speaker 5: to talk about. So also, you know, there's a group

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Speaker 5: of us who are who are fighting a lot of

414
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Speaker 5: charges in court. So if anyone's got some money for

415
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Speaker 5: a lawyer and wants to throw it our way, we

416
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 5: could really use that here because it's just going to

417
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Speaker 5: keep getting worse for us, and some of us will

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Speaker 5: not stop fighting for it.

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Speaker 4: Sounds like the topic of house blessiness is a pernicious

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Speaker 4: thing that needs to be tackled. I was going to say,

421
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Speaker 4: what to off with this conversation is what is it

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Speaker 4: that you would like to be remembered for after all

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Speaker 4: of this? What would you like your audience or the

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Speaker 4: people in Oregon to know who you are.

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Speaker 5: I'm just the person who really cares about human beings

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Speaker 5: and the way that they're treated. I'm not like some

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Speaker 5: criminal that's going to like go out and burn the

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Speaker 5: town down or anything. I'm just I'm just a normal

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Speaker 5: person that wants people to be treated right. If people

430
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Speaker 5: are hearing this and they feel like they they need

431
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 5: defense or whatever, I'm with a group called the Barefoot Defenders.

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Speaker 5: You can find us on Facebook and Instagram. You can

433
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 5: send us a message. There's not a lot of us,

434
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 5: so it's hard to get to everybody, but we are

435
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 5: around and we do try our hardest to respond to

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00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 5: everybody's messages.

437
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that we'll do.

438
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 5: Okay, I have one favor to ask of you. My

439
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 5: darling friend makes is totally like geeking out about this,

440
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 5: So shout out to Mickey for me. That'd be so cool.

441
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 4: Sure, this is a shout out to Mickey Jetty's friend.

442
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 4: I thank you for listening, and I hope we hopefully

443
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 4: meet when I go to Oregon and meet in the.

444
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 1: Light of understanding. Have a good all right, Thank you

445
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: very much, Yick.

446
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 5: Thank you.

447
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 4: Thanks to Jety for sharing her experience and you can

448
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 4: find her work on Instagram at junk Art Lady and

449
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 4: Barefoot Defenders, which you follow at the links in the description.

450
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 4: And when we come back, we're going to explore voting,

451
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 4: how it affects the unhoused, and how to rectify some

452
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 4: obstacles that unhouse people face.

453
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: Welcome back. This is Ceo Henderson with Weedy and House.

454
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 4: If you've been following along, our ongoing theme is tackling

455
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 4: the criminalizing and dm of a vulnerable population in our country.

456
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 4: Vian House with us today is doctor Caitlin Krann, a

457
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 4: professor at NYU.

458
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: Let's welcome her to the show.

459
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 4: I wanted to take the time to thank you for

460
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 4: reaching out to me. I was surprised that, you know,

461
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 4: New York is listening in to Weedian House, so that

462
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,719
Speaker 4: was really awesome as well.

463
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 7: So yes, and I've recommended your podcast in different classes

464
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 7: that I've taught or assistant taught and to different folks

465
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 7: that I've worked with. I highly recommend your podcast all

466
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 7: the time, and so this is a real honor, and

467
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 7: especially as I am trying to really elevate this work

468
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 7: as the election is steadfastly approaching, I am very appreciative

469
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 7: of any opportunity to kind of chat about it a

470
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 7: little bit. So thank you so much for the opportunity

471
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 7: as well, and I'm.

472
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: So glad that you are covering it.

473
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 4: A few years ago, during the height of the pandemic,

474
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 4: I did have kind of a message trying to get

475
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 4: the community of the world or to be understand that

476
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 4: there are unhouse people that are tapped into what's going

477
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 4: on in the political process, and also to encourage unhoused

478
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 4: people to take the range by the hand, if you will,

479
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 4: because there were so many ordinances and so many hostile

480
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 4: things that are against them. It kind of beats the

481
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 4: spirit of people that are on the street because they

482
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 4: feel like things can't change or things that won't change.

483
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 4: And I tell them all the time, which we say

484
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 4: in the black community, if voting was not voluable, it

485
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 4: was not you know, important or vital, they wouldn't be

486
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 4: fighting against you voting. They would not do all of

487
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 4: these suppression tactics. They it's just simply not true so

488
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 4: much it would be it would be that they would

489
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 4: just say, well, it doesn't matter, I don't have to

490
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 4: I don't care if you vote or not.

491
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do what I want to do.

492
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 4: And it's like, and I think so sometimes in our

493
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 4: communities we get beaten down by the hostility and the

494
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 4: ranges tactics of hostility that it could make us lose

495
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 4: sight or make us give up hope. In that respect,

496
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 4: you know, we must utilize every two that we have.

497
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 4: But I'm preaching to the choir, I feel so well.

498
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 7: I mean, you most certainly are, But you make so

499
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 7: many wonderful points in what's coming up for me.

500
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 6: And why this work is so important is.

501
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 7: Because I always say, even though, as we know, the

502
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 7: way that the democratic system is supposed to work is

503
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 7: that an elected official is supposed to represent all of

504
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 7: their constituents. But the way that our political system works

505
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 7: at the end of the day, because it is politics

506
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 7: after all, right, is that really you represent who votes

507
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 7: for you and who has put you in place, who

508
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 7: what our interests are driven? As an elected official, what

509
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 7: interests are driven? And what constituencies do you have to

510
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 7: keep happy? And so if the unhoused population is not

511
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 7: one of those constituencies, if we are not a force

512
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 7: to be reckoned with at the ballot box, then why

513
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 7: what motivates that candidate to not only posture like housing

514
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 7: and homelessness is important to them, but actually to execute

515
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 7: on interventions that are important.

516
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 6: However, I always talk.

517
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 7: About this in the cyclical nature of how, of course

518
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 7: the chicken or the egg situation with all of this,

519
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 7: because so many folks that are un housed, whether that's

520
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 7: sheltered or unsheltered. I always say, if anyone who's taken

521
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 7: us like one oh, one course or something might have

522
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 7: heard of Abraham Maslow and its higher exactly, and when

523
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 7: your basic human needs are unmet, when you don't know

524
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 7: where you're going to sleep that night, or you haven't

525
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 7: eaten in a couple of days, maybe you have your

526
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 7: kids with you, all these kinds of things you're not

527
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 7: thinking about voting and executing on the vote and where

528
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 7: you registered to vote and are you registered to vote?

529
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 7: And so that's what my work is about, really, is

530
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 7: about trying to empower providers and systemic structures to bring

531
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 7: the tools and the information to the community so that

532
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 7: people can execute on their essential rights so we can

533
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 7: get needs met in the big broad scheme.

534
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 4: If you're listening in, we are having a very dynamic

535
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 4: guest today, doctor Caitlin Crinn and she is a professor

536
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 4: at New York. You have your New York University sweatshirt

537
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 4: on right, should represent yes, and we are talking about

538
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 4: the very important issue about voting, the unhoused community, their

539
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 4: issues and how to keep them engaged or get them engaged.

540
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 4: So how did you get involved with this conversation with

541
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 4: the unhouse community.

542
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, So, as you just mentioned, my affiliation with MYU,

543
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 7: I'm a doctoral was a doctoral student I'm getting used

544
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 7: to saying was because I just graduated in May and

545
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 7: have taught throughout that process, have been involved in homelessness

546
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 7: policy courses and other things within the School of Social Work,

547
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 7: and prior to going back to school. I was a

548
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 7: practitioner for almost a decade. I'm a licensed clinical social worker,

549
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 7: and among other sectors of the field, I were in

550
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 7: family homelessness. I was managing family homeless shelters at the

551
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 7: height of the pandemic and during the last presidential election.

552
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 4: And how was that to manage that during the time

553
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: of COVID nineteen. I'm sure you have some interesting stories

554
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 4: to tell on that.

555
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 7: It most certainly was a really interesting and fascinating time when,

556
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 7: as everyone can imagine, there was so much confusion fear,

557
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 7: you know, around the pandemic, which was already so complicated,

558
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 7: and then you add in the layered and complex adversity,

559
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 7: that layers of adversity that so many folks that are

560
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 7: unhoused are dealing with as is, you know, and so

561
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 7: the complicating nature of how challenging that was. It was

562
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 7: quite an experience. But I will say one of the

563
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 7: things that was the biggest, boldest experience to come out

564
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 7: of that that ended up ultimately shifting what I wanted

565
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 7: to focus on for the remainder of my career was

566
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 7: during the twenty twenty election and census taking process, because

567
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 7: of course that was also the census.

568
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 6: Taking time, it.

569
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 7: Became clear to me how much misinformation and disinformation there

570
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 7: was around voting and executing on the vote, registering to

571
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 7: vote while people are experiencing homelessness while they were living

572
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 7: in the shelter, and there was more conversation about it

573
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 7: because of the pandemic, and because the absentee ballots were

574
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 7: being mailed out to residents, all these kinds of things,

575
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 7: and so we were actually explaining to folks in the

576
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 7: shelter at our community meetings and in our individual conversations

577
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 7: and case managerial meetings and things like this that you're

578
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 7: going to receive if you are registered to vote, You're

579
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 7: going to receive your absentee ballot in the mail in

580
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 7: our mailing system, all the mailboxes as you can imagine,

581
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 7: in the shelter. And it became very clear very quickly

582
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 7: that people did not know that they were able to vote,

583
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 7: so much misinformation and disinformation. People saying, well, if I'm

584
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 7: not renting a property, pay a mortgage, paying a property taxes,

585
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 7: or something like that, I'm I'm not eligible to vote,

586
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 7: or if this isn't a permanent address, you know, or

587
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,479
Speaker 7: for folks that were unsheltered, this was a lot of

588
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 7: work that I was doing at the time, it was

589
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 7: within the shelter and so a lot of the work

590
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 7: and the research that came out of it is more

591
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 7: around sheltered homelessness.

592
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 6: I'm sure your listeners are very familiar with this.

593
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 7: But in New York City there's a lot more sheltered

594
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 7: homelessness than there is folks that are unsheltered.

595
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 4: And it partly, perhaps if I may interject this, because

596
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: of the weather considerations we're here in Los Angeles. Even

597
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 4: though the unhoused higher rate of hypothermia here, it's just

598
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 4: not considered the same. There's a little bit more of

599
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 4: a built in program for them to not freeze to

600
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 4: death outside, where conversely, we're here in Los Angeles, we

601
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 4: haven't caught up with the empathy part of keeping unhoused

602
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 4: people in a place that they can be safe and

603
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 4: shelter in.

604
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 7: So yes, well, I mean unfortunately and did not at

605
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 7: all to dismiss that, But the shelter system is very complicated, and.

606
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 4: So I'm glad you said that was my lead in

607
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 4: to see what you was going to say, so right.

608
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 7: Right, and also as it's very much so has its flaws.

609
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 7: So when we're talking about safety and whether that's physical

610
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 7: health and well being, whether that's interpersonal you know, safety

611
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 7: and things like that. I don't want to overstate something,

612
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 7: but I once read and do uh, I'll have to

613
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 7: get back to you on what the source of this

614
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 7: was that statistically speaking, shelters are the next most dangerous

615
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 7: place to reside in an institutionalized setting after prison.

616
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: Well that's not shocking ye at all.

617
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 6: Right for those suit these systems.

618
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 7: But yeah, so New York City has what's called a

619
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 7: right to shelter, so everybody who comes into the intake

620
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 7: system will be given somewhere to sleep, regardless of there

621
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 7: is no explicit capacity. If every single bed in every

622
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 7: single shelter in New York City is full, then what

623
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 7: the city will do is then pay for hotels or

624
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 7: something of that nature to find another solution.

625
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 6: And so this is why right now one of.

626
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 7: The biggest issues with sheltered homelesses in New York City

627
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 7: is the migro crisis because a lot of people come

628
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 7: to New York City. And that's true not just of

629
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 7: the mining crests in this current moment, but people just

630
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 7: might come from all other areas of the country or

631
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 7: what have you because New York City will give you

632
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 7: a bed. And so I would have clients, for example,

633
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 7: residents and folks I worked with who came from Philly,

634
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 7: for example, to New York City, because in Philadelphia you

635
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 7: would have to stand outside online every day, outside the

636
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 7: shelter and possibly not even get in when all done.

637
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and you have to get there very early.

638
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 4: You have to you know, go through some hoops and yeah,

639
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 4: when I stayed when I was unsheltered on housed in Texas,

640
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 4: they have that or your meeting in places that are

641
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 4: very draconian and how they deal with the house's crisis,

642
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 4: which naturally makes people want to go where people are

643
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 4: unless draconian, if you will end sheltering on house people right.

644
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 7: And then the other complicated issue as well is that

645
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 7: it's snowballs from there.

646
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 6: Right.

647
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 7: So, if you have to spend your whole afternoon and

648
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 7: evening waiting online to get into the shelter, what are

649
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 7: the things that you're not doing. You're not able to

650
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 7: look for a job, you're not able to if you're

651
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 7: looking to advance your education or what have you, you can

652
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 7: be taking courses in the evening, things of that nature.

653
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 7: If you're a parent, and you're experience. You know, you

654
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 7: can't be going to school events to be involved in

655
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 7: you know, the events or the pta or what have you,

656
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 7: which many many of our on house families in New

657
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 7: York City are very involved in those ways and want

658
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 7: to be doing those things, and I really greatly appreciate

659
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 7: that we are able to offer shelter in that way

660
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 7: to families individuals. It's a little bit different of a system.

661
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 7: There's different tiers of what shelter looks like and what

662
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 7: those requirements are in New York City. But so to

663
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 7: kind of circle back, and I'm so sorry, I go

664
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 7: on a bunch of different tangents and offshoots because there's

665
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 7: just so much material in this experience and in this

666
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 7: work there and everything is so interconnected and layered. So

667
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 7: I apologize, But so to go back, So there was

668
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 7: so much misinformation and disinformation, and as I continue to

669
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 7: do research trying to find out what has the census

670
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 7: looked like in this area historically, you know, what does

671
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 7: that process look like logistically and administratively? Does the system

672
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 7: deal with this? We already have the pit the point

673
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 7: in time count. We take a daily census, and we

674
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 7: have everyone's information logged in our system.

675
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 6: Is that something that's just communicated with the Census.

676
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 7: Bureau to ensure accuracy and to eliminate barriers for our clients,

677
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 7: or we have to go around door knocking during a

678
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 7: pandemic and saying, have you built out the census?

679
00:36:59,239 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: You know.

680
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 4: One of a couple of things that we were mentioning

681
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 4: that I want to ask too, because you mentioned something

682
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 4: earlier and I wanted to, but I kind of got

683
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 4: off track, is that many of the information that unhouse

684
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 4: people that are hearing about the conversation when voting, And

685
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 4: I was wondering, do you think I was influenced by

686
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 4: because I know, as unhoused people, we have run into

687
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 4: the scorn of Nimbi's and that's the acronym of not

688
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 4: in my backyard, particularly here, and a lot of times

689
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 4: that you hear Nimbi's that running around prattling that they

690
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 4: pay taxes, they have homes, they have businesses, they don't

691
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 4: want their children to see these poor people. And a

692
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 4: lot of times unhoused people can internalize that, not understanding

693
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 4: that they do pay taxes even though that they're on

694
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 4: the street. Not only that they also have children that

695
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 4: are in house. We have a high number of children

696
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 4: here in Los Angeles particularly that are on house. To

697
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 4: add to that, when I was doing some of the

698
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 4: outreach and to having the conversation, and again there's so

699
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 4: much that's going on. We mentioned about Abraham Maslow's hierarchy

700
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 4: of needs. The thing of it is that so many

701
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 4: things are bombarding their time or taking over their time.

702
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 4: That is very difficult, and it's easier to sum up

703
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 4: that it's not going to make a difference if you're

704
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 4: looking on the scale of immediacy. Voting is like the

705
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 4: long game kind of conversation. You are looking to evaluate,

706
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 4: looking to weigh in people's platforms. And I'll give you

707
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 4: and hate to give you this example with the conversation

708
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 4: with Trump and common errors. This is so much outside

709
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 4: the realm of political reality. With Trump, every hit that

710
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 4: you is so out preposterous, it's so racist, it's so

711
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 4: hateful that you cannot help but at least hear some

712
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 4: kind of trash talking point he has. Conversely, when you're

713
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 4: hearing any other conversation, you're hearing people talk negatively about

714
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 4: the other opponent, and so it is like it's not

715
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 4: always the easiest way to make a choice. Well, you know,

716
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 4: if you like the orange guy, you'll join Orange guy

717
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 4: because he speaks to what you're saying. But if you

718
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 4: have much more subtle type of candidates or candidacies that

719
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 4: are focusing only on a certain slice of people that

720
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 4: they believe that they're going to get elected by, they're

721
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 4: going to be tailoring to them and excluding unhoused people,

722
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 4: do you just get your insight on that?

723
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:25,479
Speaker 6: Yeah?

724
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 7: Absolutely, Well, you bring up so many really important points.

725
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 7: Something that was coming up for me as you were

726
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 7: speaking is I don't refer to my work largely as

727
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 7: civic engagement. I refer to it as civic empowerment because,

728
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 7: as we keep talking about, a very common theme is

729
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 7: the consideration that we as providers and folks that do

730
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 7: any kind of outreach, even if this is a traditional

731
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 7: voter registration group, something that is a constant consideration or

732
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 7: needs to be is the layered, complex and compound adversity

733
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 7: that so many members of this community are experienced and

734
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 7: saying just by virtue of being unhoused. And then you

735
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 7: think about all of the layered discrimination and disenfranchisement that

736
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 7: people have often faced in order to get there in

737
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 7: the first place, right. So all this to say, this

738
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 7: work isn't just about engaging someone and saying, here are

739
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 7: you're rights, here's your information, go execute on this. But

740
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 7: the work really, my work really targets providers wanting to say,

741
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 7: there's more to the work than that, And that's that

742
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 7: empowerment piece, because there is a rise in this country

743
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 7: in general to the point that you're making about the

744
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 7: different candidates. And I always say my work although I'm

745
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 7: not a five oh one three c which is a

746
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 7: sanctioned nonprofit, although that's not what I do as in

747
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 7: my capacity as a personal consultant and researcher doing this work,

748
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,959
Speaker 7: but there are many of the organizations I work for.

749
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 7: For example, today I was training an organization staff on

750
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 7: how to register folks to vote who are experiencing homelessness.

751
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 7: And they are if I want through see, meaning that

752
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 7: they can't have any kind of a political preference or party

753
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 7: or what have you.

754
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 6: And so what I always talk about is.

755
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,479
Speaker 7: How are we talking about housing in the context of

756
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 7: the election, and how are we utilizing and elevating our voices.

757
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 7: I always talk about candidates in terms of how housing

758
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 7: forward are they, you know, And I always say this

759
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 7: is a priority, of course of this population, but honestly

760
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 7: of broader Americas. We're facing the largest housing affordability crisis

761
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 7: since the Great Depression. And all this to say there's

762
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 7: a rise in general in voter apathy. It's that much

763
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 7: more pronounced when folks are unhoused for all the reasons

764
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 7: that we've talked about, complex and compound trauma and adversity, discrimination, racism,

765
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 7: prejudices that people have experienced for the duration of their

766
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 7: whole lives. Many people, and so folks come to this

767
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 7: conversation like why should I care about a system that

768
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 7: doesn't care about me? And so you're absolutely right when

769
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 7: you said that this is the long game. And that's

770
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 7: why I talk about that chicken or the egg situation,

771
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 7: saying that until the unhoused population are forced to be

772
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 7: reckoned with at the ballot box, I don't necessarily believe

773
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 7: that all of a sudden there's just going to be

774
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 7: this altruistic phenomenon where everybody transitions to wanting to really

775
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 7: meaningfully invest resources and interventions in solving problems that they

776
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 7: largely can ignore if they so choose while holding political office.

777
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 7: And so that is that's a big part of why

778
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 7: that empowerment piece is so important to me, and so

779
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 7: when it comes to housing forward candidates, it's very interesting.

780
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 7: I actually just learned something prior to this conversation, just

781
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 7: moments before, honestly, I was someone had sent to me

782
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 7: that Google and Microsoft are all in on their political

783
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 7: contribution for Kamala Harris. And that's very interesting because thinking

784
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 7: about these large corporations and how people kind of think

785
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 7: about how Because Donald Trump postures as a, you know,

786
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 7: a really successful businessman, and that's how a lot of

787
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 7: America conceptualizes him. People think that it will be better

788
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 7: for the economy and better for them personally. But what

789
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 7: we know by you know, Nobel laureates and Nobel laureate

790
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 7: economists have said that his policies will tank the economy,

791
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 7: and that is something that's true when you bring housing

792
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 7: into the conversation as well, talking about the affordability crisis,

793
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 7: and I think that that's really interesting to see those

794
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 7: those big entities kind of all in for the candidate

795
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 7: that you wouldn't assume big entities, multi billion dollar you know,

796
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 7: corporations would be all in for. And so that's something

797
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 7: that I want to elevate as well because it's worthwhile

798
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 7: to think about to think about that.

799
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 4: Well, let me ask this question, because I know there

800
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 4: are cynicisms that's in the movements that have this belief

801
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 4: system the Master's twos will not dismantle from the Master's

802
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 4: House or it won't be done. What would your position

803
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 4: be when you hear people say that, you know it's

804
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 4: not going to change any saying the system needs to

805
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 4: be torn down, which is true in some respect, but

806
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 4: right now it leads me in sometimes in a conversational

807
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 4: quandary because we just cannot land on that explanation point

808
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 4: in my opinion, because there's a certain cynic system, but

809
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 4: there's also a certain arrogance to that, because I used

810
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 4: to as an other house person get annoyed with that.

811
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 4: So you're saying, I'm just supposed to not vote or

812
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 4: not be clued into my own extermination. I can just

813
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 4: allow them to continue to exterminate me, because we need

814
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 4: the system to broke breaking down, and you just, you know,

815
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 4: we just keep it going. Maybe we don't have the

816
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 4: stronger political systems yet in place, but we're just supposed

817
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 4: to hold on vote, vote for a cause that's going

818
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 4: to lead us down the pit wherever, and I'm just

819
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 4: wll not even vote just because some don't even want

820
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 4: to believe in voting. I'm just being honest and and

821
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 4: that kind of just kind of annoyed meent like, dude,

822
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 4: So I'm just supposed to sit there, allow them to

823
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 4: not take advantage of the programs or the things that

824
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 4: other house people that are don't want my existence to

825
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,959
Speaker 4: be are voting against, are voting to erase me. Again,

826
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 4: That's just something I fear that always there's something in

827
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 4: our community. Anytime when people fight back or stand up

828
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 4: straight in not let someone ride your back, we're always

829
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 4: framed as we're clueless or we are part of the problem.

830
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 4: That's the That's the other thing. You know, it's both

831
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 4: sides kind of argument.

832
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 7: So right, you bring up so many, so many great points,

833
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 7: and that's the complicated thing is you know essentially what

834
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 7: you're what you're talking about, if I can put the

835
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 7: name to it again, even though this is an oversimplification

836
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 7: of what you're talking about.

837
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 6: But it's that apathy.

838
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 7: It's that apathy for the process the voting, because, like

839
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 7: I say, it's not a system that is designed or

840
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 7: currently in practice functioning to benefit this community. Right, and

841
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 7: so why would people want to engage with it? And

842
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 7: as a clinician, my first step in having these conversations

843
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 7: is always just validate, validate, validate, just saying you know,

844
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 7: I hear you thousand percent, why would you want to

845
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 7: do this?

846
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 6: This system has not worked for you.

847
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 7: It is often many hoops that you have to jump through,

848
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 7: and all these kinds of things. And I think that

849
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 7: to your point your voice, at least in the present moment,

850
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 7: and to be clear me speaking from my perspective, I

851
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 7: am a very as of course a social worker working

852
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 7: at homelessness out of New York, as a queer woman,

853
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 7: all these kinds of things. I am somebody who is

854
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 7: very critical. I'm a critical abolitionist social worker. And so

855
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 7: I am somebody who's coming from the perspective of wanting

856
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 7: to tear down the systems and rebuild them from scratch.

857
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 7: So understanding all the complexities of what that means and

858
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 7: the realities of that actually coming to fruition right, And

859
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 7: so thinking about and after validating someone, circling back to

860
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 7: the conversation where I say, at this present moment, these

861
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 7: are the tools that we have, and it sounds like

862
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 7: what you're saying is your voice is missing, and you

863
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 7: are missing from this process. You are not seen, you

864
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 7: are not heard, And so actually we're saying the same thing.

865
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: We'll finish this conversation after the break and we're back.

866
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 7: It seems like such a tremendously daunting task, but I

867
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 7: always say, any kind of really meaningful movements that have

868
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 7: pushed society forward really begin, in my humble anecdotal opinion

869
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 7: of American history, begin with activism, begin with organizing. You know,

870
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 7: I think about the civil rights movement and the late

871
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 7: great John Lewis, where we're still trying to get the

872
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,479
Speaker 7: John Lewis Voting Rights Act through in Congress right now

873
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 7: to expand on voting rights that were struck down years

874
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 7: ago by the Supreme Court.

875
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 6: But all this to say.

876
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 7: It is extremely important that we are able to organize

877
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 7: and mobilize and find motivation and collective motivation within each other,

878
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 7: within ourselves, and then within community. And by not only

879
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 7: allowing people or encouraging people to believe that their voice

880
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 7: and their vote doesn't make a difference anyway, it's also

881
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 7: kind of this notion that community, that collaboration is also,

882
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 7: you know, is something to be dismissed.

883
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 6: And my argument is, in any kind of.

884
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 7: Social progress that's ever happened in a meaningful way, it

885
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 7: started with folks on the ground who were passionate about

886
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 7: it and who built a movement, right, and then people

887
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 7: coming around that movement collectively creating community and driving that forward.

888
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 7: And so I certainly, and to be very direct, I

889
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 7: also don't have a perfect answer for that, because I

890
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 7: don't believe that there is a perfect answer, because it's

891
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 7: an extremely imperfect system and we're all imperfect people, and

892
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 7: there isn't any one way to prescribe any answer to

893
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 7: what a person's human experiences are that have led them

894
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 7: to not be interested in voting, And so I really

895
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 7: take those conversations one at a time.

896
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 4: But yeah, but one of the things I also wanted

897
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 4: to point out too, what you're mentioning too, is when

898
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 4: I hear this and sometimes in the active with some circle,

899
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 4: I think they dismiss the achievements of.

900
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: People that came before VIM.

901
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 4: A lot of people did not benefit from what they

902
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 4: fought for, and they could have given up and just

903
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 4: hung their head and whatever, but they felt that the

904
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 4: long game was much more important for us to be

905
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 4: armed with certain tools. You know, it is true that

906
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 4: we can't use always a hammer to do everything in

907
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,919
Speaker 4: but the hammer could be used to build something else

908
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 4: from that master's tools and that we're using. But most

909
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 4: importantly that we also have to understand that things doesn't

910
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 4: move like that most instantaneous. Like I said, there are

911
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 4: people that have not benefited from the efforts that they

912
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 4: have pushed for the things that we are benefiting for,

913
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 4: and which brings up the conversation again, which I always

914
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 4: point this out because it always is really interesting to

915
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 4: me when I hear people say that. I said, So,

916
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 4: if that's the case, then these people that are wasting

917
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 4: all of his resources are using all of his time

918
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 4: ruing campaigns to exterminate and erase people.

919
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be fruitful.

920
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 4: In essence saying just sit there and allow them to

921
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 4: steamroll over you and make have no say, which is

922
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 4: the antithesis of organizing, the antithesis of activism, which a

923
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 4: lot of people are in these groups, and sometimes when

924
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 4: we're quoting luminaries that are in the field, they're human

925
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 4: beings just like we are. And some things need to

926
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 4: be pressure tested, some things need to be put in

927
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 4: another context, and some things need to be not used

928
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 4: as the justification for things that are necessary. Our human

929
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 4: existence is about activism, and we started out trying to

930
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 4: survive first. And the second thing is we tried to

931
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 4: find out certain things that we should have that should

932
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 4: be a part of our existence. And that has been

933
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 4: from the beginning of time, and it catapults the conversation

934
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 4: to this point where unhoused people should be on the

935
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 4: front of conversating on how to push back against the nimbiism.

936
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,240
Speaker 4: For example, there is a number to call to report

937
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 4: unhouse people here in Los Angeles, but on house people

938
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 4: can't report Nimbia. They can only get the number for

939
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 4: two and one for services. It's that dynamic. To change

940
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 4: the dynamic, we need to have a number to report

941
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 4: when people that are claiming that they are property owners

942
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 4: or taxes and coming and setting a fire to unhoused

943
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 4: temps or extended coming there, harassing unhoused people. We need

944
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 4: to have that kind of apparatus. It might not need

945
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 4: to be with law enforcement, but we need to have

946
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 4: enough of that. We need to also have the diminution

947
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 4: of having nimbies run out to council members targeting people

948
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 4: and using that resource to sweep, like, for example, recently

949
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,240
Speaker 4: a celebration here for someone that was known for sweeping

950
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 4: unhoused people, and they swept the whole area and there

951
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 4: was nothing to be done about it, you know it,

952
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 4: and not part of that should have been like, you know,

953
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 4: the unhoused community or the unhouthed activists should have been

954
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 4: in the face of the city and the council members

955
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 4: and making sure that this is not going to stand,

956
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 4: you know, haveing those conversations and having also a voting

957
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 4: voice that he says, this is what's going to happen

958
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 4: when you do this.

959
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: You can go and hoddle to.

960
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 4: Those house people, but understand you're going to be paying

961
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:13,919
Speaker 4: the piper from us.

962
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: But that's I digress.

963
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 7: That listening to that felt like a gut punch. That's

964
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 7: devastating to hear. Something that comes to mind is just

965
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 7: thinking also about Grant's pass and the ruling that just

966
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 7: came down from the Supreme Court. And this is something

967
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 7: actually that I'm working on one of a few advocates

968
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 7: who are working with the National Alliance and Homelessness to

969
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 7: put out a brief. Although there was an amicus brief

970
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 7: that came out by the lawyers, but we wanted to

971
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 7: do something on the side of practitioners and researchers, social

972
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 7: service professionals, those kinds of things, those of us that

973
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 7: aren't as.

974
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 6: Entrenched in the legalese.

975
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 7: But we are actually thinking about the execution of this

976
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 7: in practice, and how are we going to tack people,

977
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 7: how are we going to minimize harm and reduce harm

978
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 7: as providers and advocates and researchers, et cetera.

979
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: But you made a good point, and I'm so glad

980
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 1: you brought it up.

981
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 4: But I also wanted to point out because I want

982
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 4: to set the stage for people that are getting in

983
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 4: because there's a lot of legallyes, there's a lot of

984
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 4: statements that's been going on about houselessness unless you are

985
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 4: part of it, like for example, grants pass supersedes Martin v. Boise,

986
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 4: and to give people to just leasen in and don't

987
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 4: know Martin versus Boise was the stop gap for the

988
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 4: nimbies and the cities from just running refshod.

989
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: Over the rights of unhoused people.

990
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 4: The Ninth Circuit Court claimed that it's cruel and unusual

991
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 4: punishment to keep sweeping and criminalizing unhoused people where there

992
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 4: are no resources and no places to go. Why Grant's

993
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 4: Pass was so important, because I think there's some of

994
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 4: the details we're missing. Was the Nimbies and the people

995
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 4: in the city were so aggressive in attacking unhoused people

996
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 4: that the community of the Young House after the well,

997
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 4: we give the shout out to the activists. First, the

998
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 4: activists got together getting the concerns. Then they got together

999
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 4: to go to the law office to sue against the city.

1000
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 4: But the city, and I think this is a very

1001
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 4: important distinction to understand, they whined, they cried, they grumbled,

1002
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 4: and they had other activists and other anti unhoused activists

1003
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 4: in other cities form another suit, a lawsuit to counter

1004
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 4: act against what Grants Pass the unhoused community we're doing.

1005
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 4: And as a result, this was the Grand Pass ruling

1006
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 4: saying it is not cruel and unusual. If you don't

1007
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 4: have services or a place for unhoused people to stay,

1008
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 4: you can criminalize them to your heart's content. And basically

1009
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 4: it's just legally is for open extermination for people that

1010
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 4: are trying to survive with no resources. And this is

1011
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 4: the difference in the the tonality of what the Grant's

1012
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 4: past ruling is there is no such thing there as

1013
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 4: a stopgap to stop people from being completely monsters. They

1014
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 4: just go full They just at the full moon, they

1015
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 4: just you know, just come into the full monster suit

1016
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 4: and they just go after the people. And there is

1017
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 4: very i won't say very little, but there is very

1018
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 4: little conversation on how this is going to impact. And

1019
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 4: I'm so encouraged to hear that you guys are standing

1020
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 4: up and saying something about this.

1021
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 7: Yeah, oh my goodness, thank you so much for just

1022
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 7: sharing all of those those thoughts and experiences. And absolutely

1023
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 7: it's heart breaking and frustrating to hear. And the way

1024
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 7: that I also connect it back to this work is that,

1025
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 7: of course, what is the one of if not? And

1026
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,839
Speaker 7: I don't want to see this definitively because I don't

1027
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 7: have the statistic to back it up, but one of

1028
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 7: the greatest things that disenfranchisees voters is having a criminal record,

1029
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 7: right and having any kind of history of convictions time,

1030
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 7: et cetera. And then in different states, depending upon the laws,

1031
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 7: how that disqualifies you from being on the voter role

1032
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 7: or just similar to how the conversation started, misinformation and

1033
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 7: disinformation for example, in New York City, you are eligible.

1034
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 7: As long as you are not serving a felony conviction,

1035
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 7: you are eligible to vote. So if you have been released,

1036
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 7: you are on parole or probation, or you are eligible

1037
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 7: to vote. And if you are currently incarcerated for a misdemeanor,

1038
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 7: you are eligible to vote from prison. And so this

1039
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 7: is something that people largely do not know.

1040
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 6: And so I'm talking.

1041
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 7: With folks in the community and they say, oh, no, sorry,

1042
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 7: I can't register to vote. I have a record, And

1043
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 7: I say, absolutely, you can. And that's a big part

1044
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 7: of this work, is the civic literacy part of it.

1045
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 7: And that's why I call it empowerment and not necessarily

1046
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 7: just engagement. And I don't want to circle back, but

1047
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 7: there was just I made a note to myself of

1048
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 7: something that I wanted to mention when you were talking

1049
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 7: about this phenomena out of what you hear in the

1050
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 7: community and how you combat that in your own conversations

1051
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 7: and advocacy, and I always just point out, I'm like,

1052
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 7: this is how systemic oppression works. This is how folks

1053
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 7: remain perpetually in power, how folks with greater privilege, power, wealth,

1054
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 7: access education, etc. This is how they continue to safeguard right,

1055
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 7: the structures and power as they exists. By you know,

1056
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 7: there's social stratification that exists, right, It's layers and tiers,

1057
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 7: and there becomes this kind of.

1058
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 6: Hierarchy of power, if you will.

1059
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 7: And then people at the bottom just feel so of

1060
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 7: that structure, just feel so defeated and depleted, and that

1061
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 7: they're like, it doesn't even matter whether I participate in

1062
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 7: this at all.

1063
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 6: And what does that do is it.

1064
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 7: Allows for that power to remain concentrated at the top

1065
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:53,919
Speaker 7: and they barely even have to put up a fight.

1066
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 6: Yes, And so that is my dream for this work.

1067
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 7: And having been in the show Shelter during the twenty

1068
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 7: twenty election, when I experienced all of this, it ended

1069
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 7: up completely shifting the trajectory of what I want to

1070
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 7: do for my career and long term. This is now

1071
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 7: my mission for the rest of my working life. Is

1072
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 7: I want to make the unhoused population a force to

1073
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 7: be reckoned with at the ballot box. If you want

1074
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 7: to hold political office, at least in New York City,

1075
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 7: I would love for the work to go beyond that eventually.

1076
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 6: If you want to hold political office.

1077
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 7: In New York City, you better have good answers to

1078
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 7: what are you going to do about homelessness and housing?

1079
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 7: Right and not what are you going to do about

1080
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 7: it from a perspective.

1081
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: Of paratistic approach.

1082
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 7: Kly not how are you going to and not an

1083
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 7: oppressive approach right, not how are you going to cover

1084
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 7: this up? How are we going to eliminate this? Like

1085
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 7: the Grant's past ruling which now allows for people to

1086
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 7: be swept and arrested for there so for listeners who

1087
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 7: might not know. That's why I bring it into the

1088
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 7: criminal record is because what this allows now is that

1089
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 7: people can be arrested for sleeping in a public space.

1090
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 7: And of course that also allows for so much discretionary discrimination, right,

1091
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 7: potentially arresting officers. Right because how is someone camping out,

1092
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 7: you know, with their on a weekend trip camping They're

1093
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 7: not going to be arrested, right, But somebody who has

1094
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 7: literally nowhere else to go and closes their eyes on

1095
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 7: a park bench, they can be arrested.

1096
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 4: Or even I would like to interject too, because we

1097
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 4: have something here in Los Angeles called forty one to

1098
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 4: eighteen and I considered it the new Jim Crow because

1099
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 4: it is against the law for any unhoused person to sit, sleep,

1100
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 4: or lie anywhere where it posted. For example, if this

1101
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 4: person thinks, like, for example, you're going to a public

1102
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 4: place or go into a restaurant or whatever, and you're

1103
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 4: sitting there and they have the sign that you cannot

1104
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 4: be there, that you're on housed, someone can call, which

1105
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 4: I've seen in my own eyes live in the community

1106
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 4: I am where unhoused person was just sitting down, it

1107
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 4: was not interacting with anybody, wasn't doing anyse but minding

1108
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 4: their bitsiness and running them off. They would go and

1109
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 4: get the security, or security would come by and run

1110
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 4: them off. They could be enjoying just like the same

1111
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 4: benefits and privileges of other people, maybe getting their ease

1112
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 4: into the air, and they're eating something, someone giving us food,

1113
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 4: and I've seen them being run off. I've seen them

1114
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 4: being run off, you know. Even if let's just say

1115
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 4: for the example of camping, like for example, I lived

1116
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 4: in a park in downtown for several years, if I

1117
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 4: was seen camping just but sitting there or whatever, or

1118
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 4: staying a sustained amount of time, now they have the

1119
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 4: impetus to be able to pour someone out of it.

1120
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 4: And if you don't go, they can arrest you and

1121
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 4: criminalize you. They even have it now here in Los

1122
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 4: Angeles that if you are sleeping in your car or

1123
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 4: have an RV and they tell you to move and

1124
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 4: you don't move, they can utilize that as the jump

1125
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 4: off point. And I'm summarizing usually a jumper off point

1126
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 4: to have your car toad and then now you can

1127
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 4: be fromalize for that because now you're into the weight

1128
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 4: of you know, in this marsh or the quicksand so

1129
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 4: it's very calculated cruelty. They are just ducking people who saying, well,

1130
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 4: this is messed up. You're lying on these kind of

1131
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 4: tactics to target vulnerable people and remove them out of

1132
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 4: people's neighborhood at the behat of house people that don't

1133
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 4: want to see houselessness in their neighborhood.

1134
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 7: Absolutely, and this is why I call this process the

1135
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 7: quote unquote chicken or the egg or And what I

1136
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 7: mean by that is just the nature of what comes

1137
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 7: first in terms of making this social progress. You know,

1138
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 7: do we need representatives who are prioritizing housing or do

1139
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 7: we need to mobilize to put those people in power

1140
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 7: in the first place to strike down some of these

1141
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 7: laws to allocate resources appropriately in specific ways that end

1142
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 7: up resulting in less people experiencing homelessness and becoming unhoused

1143
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 7: in the first place. Right, And then I also think about,

1144
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 7: and this is the clinician in me, I think about

1145
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 7: the ways in which even these aspects of things are

1146
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 7: You used the word calculated, and I appreciated that word.

1147
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 7: I don't think that these effects are necessarily by mistake,

1148
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 7: you know. I think that these areas being under accounted for, underserved,

1149
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 7: and the folks that live in those areas being either

1150
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 7: homeless or housing insecure of some variety, you know, and

1151
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 7: low income housing in those areas and things like that,

1152
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 7: that those areas are underrepresented, under resourced by design. You know,

1153
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 7: this is not viewed as a problem that needs to

1154
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 7: be solved, and that, to me is the core of

1155
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 7: what is problematic about this, And that's why we need

1156
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 7: to make sure that during the census taking process that

1157
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 7: it is accounted for how many people will be living

1158
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 7: in sheltered spaces. And for that matter, I mean, it's

1159
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 7: much more complicated, as I'm sure I don't have to

1160
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 7: preach to you when we're talking about folks that are

1161
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 7: living rough and that are unsheltered homeless, but at least

1162
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 7: a stop gap for systems like New York City is

1163
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 7: at least we can account for the amount of shelter beds.

1164
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 6: That we have capacity for because they will always be full.

1165
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 6: Something drastically changes those beds will be full.

1166
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 4: Here is one of the solutions that I think also

1167
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 4: that needs to happen. And it is wonderful that this

1168
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 4: conversation is being advanced by you, doctor Crinn. And there's

1169
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 4: another excellent person that I would like to interview, Ruth Lesser.

1170
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 4: She is doing something locally about trying to figure out

1171
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 4: how many and how people are insight safe that are

1172
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 4: getting the voters' ballots and having voter literacy, if you will.

1173
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 4: And I think too, this is like one of the

1174
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 4: things that it needs to be a sustaining effort before

1175
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 4: elections go on or even during elections go on for

1176
01:04:54,640 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 4: unhoused people. This is like a continuing conversation where the

1177
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 4: best of the arguments are debunked, like just like to

1178
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 4: know your rights kind of conversations that we have particularly

1179
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 4: indicative of where we are, like in Los Angeles or

1180
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 4: in New York. I think this needs to be and

1181
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 4: hopefully this episode here is one of my contributions in

1182
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 4: order to keeping the conversation going and to look forward

1183
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 4: to having you come back as well, to keep you

1184
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 4: update and talk for about different political candidates or also

1185
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 4: you know, the progress getting more on house people hopefully

1186
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 4: even to run because they can speak to the conversation,

1187
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 4: to seek to houselessness way when they've lived it, and

1188
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 4: to see maybe a shift in the conversation and the

1189
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 4: way we treat houselessness. Is there anything else you like

1190
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 4: to add before I lock out?

1191
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,919
Speaker 6: Just to that point that you just made.

1192
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 7: That's actually what my doctoral work yielded was a four

1193
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 7: pong model of civic empowerment in shelter, not just at

1194
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 7: the time of elections, but in a way that is

1195
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 7: omnipresent regardless of what election is approaching or if there's

1196
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 7: an election approaching, and that is self sustaining.

1197
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 6: And I give you one small example.

1198
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 7: After somebody has resided in a shelter for thirty days

1199
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 7: in New York City, you're eligible to registered vote from

1200
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 7: that address.

1201
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 6: And so why isn't.

1202
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 7: It just a normative part of our case managerial structure

1203
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 7: that at your fourth meeting, your ILP, your independent Living

1204
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 7: Plan meetings, that you have to have with your case

1205
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 7: manager every week at your fourth one. It should be

1206
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 7: a regulatory part of the process where they are informed

1207
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 7: you're eligible to vote from this location. And we should

1208
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 7: have materials around civic literacy available universally at all times.

1209
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 7: Raise your voice and here's why your voice is important,

1210
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 7: and having that narrative woven into the fabric of how

1211
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 7: we do things when we serve the population. Just by

1212
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 7: talking about this, just by elevating this as an issue

1213
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 7: and making sure that it is the constant backdrop of

1214
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 7: what we are doing in social services consistently, is how

1215
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 7: are we thinking about not just civic engagement at the

1216
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 7: time of election, which is very common, right, that we

1217
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 7: have a lot to ask of vulnerable populations right before elections,

1218
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 7: and that that isn't entirely fair, and that populations realize

1219
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 7: this and then they're disinterested in engaging in that. But

1220
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 7: all this to say, there's existing case managerial structure and

1221
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:27,479
Speaker 7: other interventions in whether it's in street outreach programming, whether

1222
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 7: it's in social service programming, whether it's in shelter systems,

1223
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 7: there's existing infrastructure that we can tweak in what ultimately

1224
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 7: amounts to very minor ways, but that could in the

1225
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 7: longer term, and the certain ways in certain metrics, even

1226
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 7: in the immediate you know, have very real, meaningful empowerment impact.

1227
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 7: And that is what I'm trying to raise my voice about.

1228
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 7: And if there are any elected officials or anyone who

1229
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 7: works for electeds or works for government systems that would

1230
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 7: like to learn more about this, that's my mission right

1231
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 7: now is taking that model, and I want to get

1232
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 7: it implemented in New York City shelters and see what

1233
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 7: kind of a difference could it make if there was

1234
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 7: self sustaining civic empowerment infrastructure in these systems. And so

1235
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 7: that's the kind of all that I have to say

1236
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:19,800
Speaker 7: for now. I know we have to wrap up because

1237
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 7: I could talk about this. I'm very passionate about what

1238
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 7: I do, and I consider myself extremely fortunate to do it,

1239
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 7: and so I could. Frankly, I feel like we could

1240
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 7: have this conversation for four hours. So I thank you

1241
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 7: for the invitation to come back, and I would truly

1242
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 7: love to do that whether we're approaching an election cycle

1243
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,799
Speaker 7: or not, because the conversation is always relevant.

1244
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 4: Absolutely, thank you very much to doctor Crinn for their

1245
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 4: time and You can learn more about their work at

1246
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 4: Kaitlincrenn dot com at the link in the description. Before

1247
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 4: we finish, let me take a moment to hype up

1248
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 4: a key mutual a group in our city, Action and Solidarity.

1249
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 4: They have expended major time, unpaid labor and untold funding

1250
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:09,640
Speaker 4: to sustain a close to three year effort to be

1251
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 4: allies to the unhoused community. Many generous donors have been

1252
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,719
Speaker 4: an integral part of this movement. What we need now

1253
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 4: is a more sustained support rather than one time burst

1254
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,759
Speaker 4: of generosity. Jaytown is in need of funding for food

1255
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:28,719
Speaker 4: for hot meals, acanomies that we are breaking down, clean

1256
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 4: clothing for men and women of all sizes, and charging

1257
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 4: devices to help the unhoused charge their devices. They're doing

1258
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 4: this important work in an ever increasing cruel, hostile, criminalizing virus.

1259
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 4: This virus is spreading across LA fictitiously called insight Safe.

1260
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:50,560
Speaker 1: So please click.

1261
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,759
Speaker 4: The link at the top of this episode to become

1262
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 4: part of a great mutual aid effort. And as always,

1263
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 4: please like and subscribe, And if you would like to

1264
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 4: share yours story on Weedian House, please reach out to

1265
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 4: me at weedon House on Instagram or email me at

1266
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:09,879
Speaker 4: Weedonhouse at gmail dot com. Thank you again for listening,

1267
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,600
Speaker 4: and may we again meet in the light of understanding.

1268
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:19,839
Speaker 4: Whedian House is a production of iHeartRadio. It is written, posted,

1269
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 4: and created by me Theo Henderson, our producers Jbie Loftus,

1270
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 4: Hailey Fager, Katieficial, and Lyra Smith. Our editor is Adam

1271
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 4: Wand and our loco art is also by Katieficial.

1272
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:36,559
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.