1
00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:09,240
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.

3
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,480
Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and

4
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 3: controlled by one man. Well, he's a legitimate super genius.

5
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:23,919
Speaker 4: I mean legitimate.

6
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,759
Speaker 3: He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year

7
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 3: it will be different.

8
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 1: He'll vote Republican.

9
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 2: There is a reason the US government is so reliant

10
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:31,680
Speaker 2: on him.

11
00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,920
Speaker 1: Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.

12
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,880
Speaker 5: Anything he does, he's fascinating people.

13
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,240
Speaker 3: Welcome to elan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk.

14
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 3: It's Tuesday, December sixteenth. I'm your host, David Popadopolis. This week,

15
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 3: there's a chill in the air. Well, it's been drafty

16
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 3: for a while actually, but it's absolutely ice cold right

17
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 3: now between Sam Altman and Elon Musk, as their feud

18
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 3: enters that digging up old emails and posting them on

19
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,160
Speaker 3: the internet. Phase we'll examine what AI is put out

20
00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 3: there about Musk, and then take a deeper look at

21
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,080
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's NASA pick Jared Isaacman and what his long

22
00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,120
Speaker 3: standing relationship with Elon could mean for SpaceX. Joining me

23
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 3: are our stalwarts, Dana Hull and Max Chafkin. Dana, Hello,

24
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,559
Speaker 3: Hey Max, David.

25
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,840
Speaker 2: Every time you say the NASA, I think you're gonna

26
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 2: mention the county executive of NASA county rather than days.

27
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,680
Speaker 3: I'm going to get the pronunciation right. Say it for me, Max, NASA, NASA, NASA, NASA,

28
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,320
Speaker 3: NASA next to Suffolk, which is what These are all

29
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,400
Speaker 3: my never change, These are all my favorite counties. And

30
00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 3: then later on Lauren Grush, our Space reporter, will talk

31
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 3: to us about the Jared Isaacman selection. Oh and then wait,

32
00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,920
Speaker 3: Elon's also building a preschool for kids in Texas. A

33
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,079
Speaker 3: little on that at the end from Dana, and maybe

34
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,680
Speaker 3: time permitting a little mail from the mail bag. We

35
00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:20,040
Speaker 3: start with Open AI and the spat that is now

36
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:25,440
Speaker 3: building rapidly with Musk and you know, Max, the other

37
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 3: day I read that Altman said Samueltman, the head of

38
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,880
Speaker 3: Open AI, said that he was quote tremendously sad about

39
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,959
Speaker 3: the feud with Elon, And you know, I'm I'm I'm

40
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,680
Speaker 3: sure he is. It can't be cool to be in

41
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,680
Speaker 3: this bruising battle with an old pal of yours. But

42
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,120
Speaker 3: you know, for us here lovers of feud.

43
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,440
Speaker 2: There are so many good feuds going on right now.

44
00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,400
Speaker 2: There's Elon and Gary Gensler, there's Elon in the post office,

45
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 2: and then there's this one.

46
00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 4: Like you said, this.

47
00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 3: One all of a sudden, out of the blue of sorts,

48
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 3: has become such a fever, has hit such a fevered

49
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,240
Speaker 3: pitch that it not only is appearing on the show,

50
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,679
Speaker 3: but is appearing as our lead segment. So, Max, when

51
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,840
Speaker 3: this trove of messages was revealed the other day by

52
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 3: open ai, what exactly did they show?

53
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,800
Speaker 2: The messages show what open Ai and Sam Altman have

54
00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,639
Speaker 2: contended all along, which is that Elon Musk complaints And

55
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,320
Speaker 2: just to remind people, the complaint is that Elon Musk

56
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,920
Speaker 2: funded this not for profit with the idea that he

57
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,360
Speaker 2: was going to, you know, help the world stave off

58
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,600
Speaker 2: AI apocalypse, and Sam Altman and his colleagues essentially took

59
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 2: the money and turned it into a for profit company,

60
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 2: cutting out one Elon Musk. And what the emails show

61
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 2: is that at various times, according to the emails that

62
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,240
Speaker 2: have been released, And I think you need to be

63
00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 2: a little bit careful when you're talking about this stuff

64
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 2: because we because obviously this can be selective. We're not seeing.

65
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,720
Speaker 3: Either that the emails are bogus, but that you are

66
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,200
Speaker 3: just that you're seeing.

67
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,560
Speaker 2: A selection of emails that they found and they put

68
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 2: up on a website. We are not seeing the product

69
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,840
Speaker 2: of discovery. I'm sure if Elon Musk went.

70
00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 3: Through how do we okay? So we're not seeing these

71
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:16,800
Speaker 3: through court document.

72
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:17,960
Speaker 4: No, this is just open.

73
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 2: AI is responding in public and assumedly they've they've already

74
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,039
Speaker 2: responded in court at various times.

75
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:26,680
Speaker 4: Elon Musk has refiled the suit.

76
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,039
Speaker 3: So you know, can I interupt for a second. How

77
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,720
Speaker 3: common is it when you've got a legal spat in

78
00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,840
Speaker 3: court going on, that you are also doing this publicly

79
00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 3: in this way it.

80
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,919
Speaker 2: Happens, I mean, you know, as as you know, like

81
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,960
Speaker 2: a lot of times when companies sue each other, it

82
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 2: is partly a negotiation, and of course there are different

83
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 2: way you know, you're you're negotiating for money essentially over however,

84
00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 2: whatever was taken from you, and companies will try to

85
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,320
Speaker 2: negotiate in court. There's a strategy where you like, don't

86
00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,120
Speaker 2: talk to the press at all, you let the court

87
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,480
Speaker 2: filings speak for them. But there's also a course of

88
00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,240
Speaker 2: strategy where you brief the press at every turn.

89
00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,320
Speaker 4: I mean, we've all seen sort of TV.

90
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,080
Speaker 2: Lawyers and and open AI and Elon Musk to some extent,

91
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,480
Speaker 2: are following the latter strategy. Elon is filing these lawsuits,

92
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,280
Speaker 2: but he's also tweeting about it. There he's he's giving

93
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:16,679
Speaker 2: Sam Altman a nickname.

94
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,720
Speaker 4: Swindley. Sam is the is the nickname he's supplied Dick.

95
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,800
Speaker 2: I've said it a few times, but I think I

96
00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 2: just mostly find it amusing that Elon Musk has adopted

97
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,320
Speaker 2: the Trump affectation of giving people demeaning nicknames.

98
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,679
Speaker 4: So so I just see it as more of that evolution.

99
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 2: But anyway, the emails show or seem to show that

100
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,479
Speaker 2: Elon Musk first of all, was supportive of the idea

101
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,440
Speaker 2: of making it a for profit company because they were

102
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,920
Speaker 2: all worried that, according to the emails again that they

103
00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,920
Speaker 2: were not gonna have enough money to build these massive

104
00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,880
Speaker 2: computing clusters. And secondly, they show that Elon Musk had

105
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,600
Speaker 2: a very real fixation this will not come as a

106
00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,960
Speaker 2: surprise the listeners of the show, a very real fixation

107
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,320
Speaker 2: on control, on owning a lot of this very eventually

108
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,880
Speaker 2: very valuable company and also being able to control it

109
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 2: and also naming himself CEO, and when he was thwarted there,

110
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,679
Speaker 2: he tried to kind of merge it with Tesla. Now again,

111
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 2: this is the open ai story. I think we have

112
00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 2: to assume that the story could be more complicated than

113
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:19,479
Speaker 2: these emails.

114
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:20,880
Speaker 4: But that's that's what the email show.

115
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,120
Speaker 1: To Max's point, there's there's court and then there's like

116
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 1: the court of public opinion. And I think that open

117
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,600
Speaker 1: ai has taken the tack of as we're like responding

118
00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 1: in court, let's also respond publicly on our blog. And

119
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,680
Speaker 1: they're you know, they're putting out these blogs where they're like,

120
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,840
Speaker 1: here's the latest, here's the latest. And I think that

121
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,120
Speaker 1: that's very tactical by Sam Altman and his supporters because

122
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,000
Speaker 1: they have receipts and they're making them. It really kind

123
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,480
Speaker 1: of shows, you know, that Elon is talking out of

124
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,280
Speaker 1: both sides of his mouth. I mean, he wanted it

125
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,760
Speaker 1: to be a for profit company when he was in control,

126
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: and then as soon as he lost control, he's been

127
00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,000
Speaker 1: digging them for trying to be for profit. And so

128
00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,800
Speaker 1: whoever he's got the servers there at open ai, I mean,

129
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,240
Speaker 1: they've got these emails going back years and they're just

130
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,680
Speaker 1: dribbling them out like bit by bit. This is not

131
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,240
Speaker 1: the only first time that we've seen the emails come out.

132
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 1: And it's just a reminder to all journalists that like,

133
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 1: lawsuits are a gold mind, and like you got to

134
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 1: look at all the you got to look at all

135
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 1: the appendency appendencies, and you've got to read all the emails,

136
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,960
Speaker 1: and old emails are just great. I love them. If

137
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 1: you have any, send them to us Elon Inc.

138
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,560
Speaker 2: At Bloomberg, gott Neet. Just just a reminder. It can

139
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,000
Speaker 2: also go the other way, right. You can sort of

140
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,000
Speaker 2: fight a lawsuit by issuing a press release or calling

141
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 2: a press conference. You can also use a lawsuit to

142
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,000
Speaker 2: generate positive publicity. And I think all along we have

143
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,960
Speaker 2: seen as we've talked about this dispute, we have seen

144
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 2: it as partly a way for Elon Musk to call

145
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 2: attention to all the amazing work he is doing at

146
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 2: x Ai, his ai chatbot competitor, which is very importantly

147
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,160
Speaker 2: a competitor open Ai, to help attract employees. He is

148
00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,840
Speaker 2: making a statement with this lawsuit as much as he

149
00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 2: is asking the court to stop open ai from turning

150
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 2: into a not for profit from turning into a four.

151
00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,520
Speaker 3: No help us for a second there and remind us

152
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 3: where exactly at this point we feel like x Ai

153
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,760
Speaker 3: fits in the constellation of the Musk Empire. It was

154
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 3: obviously it is perhaps the very newest of all his companies,

155
00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:26,080
Speaker 3: but it seems like one that potentially has a rapidly

156
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 3: growing valuation.

157
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 2: Of course, all probably the third most valuable company in

158
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:32,280
Speaker 2: the empire.

159
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 3: Boring.

160
00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,680
Speaker 2: You're not going to believe this, but the tunneling industry

161
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,440
Speaker 2: is not the growth industry that.

162
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,959
Speaker 3: I'm offended for. The men and women are boring the

163
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,520
Speaker 3: chat because you have a third just but so Tesla

164
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,360
Speaker 3: SpaceX x Ai.

165
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm not saying that's because they've created more

166
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,200
Speaker 2: values to come, but but it's this is just how

167
00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 2: investors are valuing these things. I don't think it's unreasonable

168
00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,079
Speaker 2: to think that that value is in the tens of

169
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,880
Speaker 2: billions of dollars because look, they've built a credible chat bot.

170
00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,720
Speaker 2: Now I think you can you can quibble with elon

171
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,960
Speaker 2: Musk and I'm sure open Ai would that, just just

172
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,679
Speaker 2: like how much of open AI's business has he replicated,

173
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,160
Speaker 2: how much of open aas customer bases? He replicated but

174
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,080
Speaker 2: he's built this valuable thing. He's also acquired a very

175
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:26,319
Speaker 2: large cluster of these GPUs, the chips that train AI

176
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,200
Speaker 2: algorithm rhythms. He's he's got, you know, one of the

177
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,440
Speaker 2: players in this industry. And open ai is worth a

178
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,280
Speaker 2: lot of money. So even if it's not worth as

179
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 2: much as open ai, it could easily be worth you know,

180
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,120
Speaker 2: something like fifty billion dollars at least as far as

181
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 2: some investors are going to see it. And that is

182
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,680
Speaker 2: interestingly not only like the third would be like the

183
00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,880
Speaker 2: third biggest and most valuable company in the Musk Empire,

184
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,680
Speaker 2: but it would probably make it more valuable than good

185
00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,920
Speaker 2: old x you know, Twitter, which he bought for forty

186
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 2: four billion, but which has seen its valuation fall since then.

187
00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Xai, like they built this massive cluster.

188
00:09:58,440 --> 00:09:59,120
Speaker 4: What are they calling it?

189
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,160
Speaker 1: Colossus? I forget, I forget the naming conventions for but

190
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,960
Speaker 1: like the but the data center that they that they've

191
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,239
Speaker 1: built with all these Nvidia GPUs and Memphis is called Colossus.

192
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 1: And you know, if this is like a gold rush

193
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,560
Speaker 1: where basically whoever has the most chips or the most

194
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 1: GPUs wins, I mean, Elon is in the game and

195
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,640
Speaker 1: Sam Altman is his biggest competitor in this race. If

196
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 1: you look at the constellation of companies SpaceX SO, Tesla,

197
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:32,559
Speaker 1: SpaceX x AI, then you've got you know, Neuralink.

198
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 3: Boring and X You've got X last, and you've got

199
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,760
Speaker 3: Boring second or last. Just for the record, I just

200
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,200
Speaker 3: want to say it. I mean to me, I value

201
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 3: Boring as the most valuable of them all.

202
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,559
Speaker 2: Can I just fly a couple of fun things from

203
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,200
Speaker 2: this emails?

204
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,520
Speaker 3: You have other things from the trophy hit.

205
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,640
Speaker 2: One thing, one thing that comes across. Well, first of all,

206
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,320
Speaker 2: there's a proposal to use crypto to fund open ai

207
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,120
Speaker 2: because they need all this money. And and from the

208
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,560
Speaker 2: emails you can conclude that Elon Musk does not see

209
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,199
Speaker 2: that as a very viable approach, which is kind of

210
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,080
Speaker 2: funny because he in public, you know, is is the

211
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:10,640
Speaker 2: doge father.

212
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:11,600
Speaker 4: He's always talking about her.

213
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,199
Speaker 3: What do you mean by use crypto to fund open as.

214
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,760
Speaker 4: We an I c O initial Remember this created.

215
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,240
Speaker 3: News if you create a news coin, create a new coin.

216
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 2: And Elon Musk, at least in private, very much saw

217
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,319
Speaker 2: it that way as as something that we gimmicky, unserious

218
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 2: or whatever. And and dissuaded or attempted.

219
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 3: To come out that was from the Yeah, it's just.

220
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,560
Speaker 4: Like in the back and forth, you see it, well right.

221
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 3: Now with all the coins worth, the zillion dollars that didn't.

222
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 4: Maybe it would have been the right move.

223
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:41,120
Speaker 1: Well.

224
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 2: The other the other thing is, you know what you

225
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 2: see in this in this back and forth, and I

226
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,440
Speaker 2: think this is going to be like this is a

227
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 2: real problem, I think for both these guys, because first

228
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,440
Speaker 2: of all, they're both making points that seem somewhat damaging

229
00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,600
Speaker 2: to the other, and they both kind of come off

230
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 2: as people who are talking a big game about the

231
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,120
Speaker 2: sort of higher purposes of what they're doing, but then

232
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,880
Speaker 2: behind the scenes are very concerned with money, which kind

233
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 2: of undercuts the sense of a higher purpose.

234
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:12,719
Speaker 3: And I think it.

235
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:17,319
Speaker 2: Really shows a sort of political clumsiness. And it makes

236
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,040
Speaker 2: me wonder what is going to happen when this kind

237
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,000
Speaker 2: of thing happens in the Trump administration, Because you're gonna

238
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:24,400
Speaker 2: have the same thing.

239
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 4: You're gonna have this this like collision of higher goals.

240
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 2: We're going to try to streamline government, we're gonna we're

241
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 2: gonna reach the stars or whatever, and then you're gonna

242
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 2: have the reality that Elon Musk is also very interested

243
00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,840
Speaker 2: in getting paid. He is interested in control. You know,

244
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 2: he's interested in the normal things that business people are

245
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,840
Speaker 2: interested in. And I don't think he has that much

246
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 2: experience kind of navigating this in public, and so I

247
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,920
Speaker 2: feel like this could be a preview of the awkwardness

248
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,240
Speaker 2: to come over the next you know, four years potentially.

249
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, indeed, so you see it as a bit of

250
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,040
Speaker 3: a potentially a lose lose here for both Musk and Altman.

251
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,439
Speaker 3: And anyway, it looks like the next step in this case,

252
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,839
Speaker 3: if I'm not mistaken, is a hearing in January. And

253
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,400
Speaker 3: so it'll just keep keep coming up again and again.

254
00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,280
Speaker 2: They did manage to squash the beef once at the

255
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,280
Speaker 2: earlier this year. You know, who knows, maybe they'll be

256
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,000
Speaker 2: able to work it out. And you saw Sam Altman

257
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,760
Speaker 2: make some kind of positive comments about Elon Musk.

258
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,400
Speaker 4: Elon Muskin acknowledge those comments.

259
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:26,640
Speaker 1: Wasn't there's some kind of hug.

260
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,599
Speaker 3: There was a hug, which is all part of the

261
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 3: reason why Altman is now tremendously sad about it.

262
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,199
Speaker 2: They hugged it out and then Musk refiled the lawsuit.

263
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 2: So who knows maybe they'll be able to find their way,

264
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,319
Speaker 2: you know, on the porty, on the patio at mar

265
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,360
Speaker 2: A Lago or something and make the.

266
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 3: Piece any good feud, any truly truly good feud. To

267
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,200
Speaker 3: be a top feud, it's got to be capable of

268
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,040
Speaker 3: overcoming a brief datime.

269
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 4: For me, it has to have the prospect of physical violence.

270
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,959
Speaker 3: Well, it's true, you're raising good point that we've moved.

271
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,960
Speaker 3: We've drifted pretty far from the initial goal of it all,

272
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 3: which was to get people in a cage match.

273
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,560
Speaker 1: And now talking about speaking okay, speaking of cage match,

274
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,560
Speaker 1: can we talk about how Meta filed something where they're

275
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 1: basically supporting Elon in his fight against Open AI. Did

276
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:13,840
Speaker 1: you see that?

277
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:14,440
Speaker 3: Miss this?

278
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,760
Speaker 2: I did see that, and I think I mean, it's

279
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,000
Speaker 2: sort of interesting because on you have Mark Zuckerberg donating

280
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 2: money to Trump. You have an actual potentially a Dayton

281
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,480
Speaker 2: between Zuckerberg and Elon. You know, the original feud actually

282
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,160
Speaker 2: seems to be cooling a little bit. They're both sort

283
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,400
Speaker 2: of on team Trump. They seem somewhat aligned on a

284
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 2: number of issues, including the need to slow down the

285
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,080
Speaker 2: market leader in AI with Zuckerberg of course, has a

286
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,600
Speaker 2: big AI effort, and also around TikTok. Oh, actually I'm

287
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,800
Speaker 2: wrong about that, not around TikTok because Zuckerberg wol want

288
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,320
Speaker 2: to ban it and Elon has said that.

289
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 3: But the mind is, if we get a cage match

290
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,400
Speaker 3: coming and Zuckerberg's in the ring and Muska is in

291
00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 3: the ring, they are partner tag team partners rather then

292
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 3: grappling against one another.

293
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,040
Speaker 1: The enemy of the enemy is my friend, so Mark,

294
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:06,520
Speaker 1: and we got.

295
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,960
Speaker 3: Zuckerberg and Musk now on one side, we just need

296
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 3: two other people for them to wrestle.

297
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 4: I team partner for Sam Alman.

298
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone preferably a little bit larger than listeners.

299
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,400
Speaker 4: Elon Ink at Bloomberg dot net. Send us your ideas

300
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 4: and we will consider.

301
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 3: To be Sam Altman's tag team partner. Okay, We're now

302
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 3: joined by Lauren Grush, who covers all things space for

303
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,000
Speaker 3: us here at Bloomberg. Hey, Lauren, Hi, guys. Okay, Lauren,

304
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,240
Speaker 3: real simple question to get us started here. Tell us

305
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,440
Speaker 3: who is Jared Isaacman.

306
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, Jared has become something of a really interesting figure

307
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 5: in both the space world and the SpaceX world. So

308
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,920
Speaker 5: prior to twenty twenty one, I had no idea who

309
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 5: he was, and now I know him quite well, or

310
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,440
Speaker 5: at least know of him quite well. He's a billionaire.

311
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 5: He's the founder of Shift for payments, which you might

312
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 5: recognize when you were swiping your credit card at various

313
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:14,280
Speaker 5: restaurants or buying gifts. It's a payment liaison system. And

314
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 5: when he took his company public, he became a billionaire

315
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 5: and decided he wanted to invest in SpaceX, and so

316
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,960
Speaker 5: he called them up and he floated the idea of actually,

317
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,440
Speaker 5: you know, flying on one of their rockets one day,

318
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,560
Speaker 5: and then that kind of snowballed, and all of a sudden,

319
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,960
Speaker 5: he had booked an entire flight for him and three

320
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,880
Speaker 5: other people on a SpaceX Dragon and became the first

321
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,880
Speaker 5: to fly the an all civilian crew to orbit. And

322
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,800
Speaker 5: ever since then he's become something of a central figure

323
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 5: at SpaceX, where he kind of serves as this financial accelerator,

324
00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:00,480
Speaker 5: if you will, because he funded this program called LARIS,

325
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,480
Speaker 5: which is a research and development program where they try

326
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,879
Speaker 5: to advance human spaceflight at SpaceX, and they flew the

327
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,120
Speaker 5: first of those missions this year, called Polaris Dawn. And

328
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,520
Speaker 5: you might have seen that he was the first to

329
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:21,359
Speaker 5: perform a commercial spacewalk in newly designed SpaceX spacesuits. So

330
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 5: Jared's definitely become intric you know, intimately involved with SpaceX

331
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,840
Speaker 5: in some very interesting ways.

332
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,440
Speaker 3: How shocking was it for you when you saw Trump

333
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 3: pick him to lead NASA going forward? I mean from Afar,

334
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 3: I think the way it struck me and perhaps others is, man,

335
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,560
Speaker 3: this really feels like it's got Elon's fingerprints written all

336
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:44,360
Speaker 3: over at this pick.

337
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 5: Oh yeah. I definitely was a little surprised. I had

338
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,240
Speaker 5: heard his name from like an offhand source was like,

339
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,399
Speaker 5: maybe him, and I was like, I don't think so.

340
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 5: Because of that research and development program. I was telling

341
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 5: you about the Polaris program. It actually constitutes three flights.

342
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 5: So the Polaris Dawn flight was just the first and

343
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,200
Speaker 5: the third one is going to culminate with the first

344
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 5: crude flight of Starship. And from my understanding, Jared wants

345
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,720
Speaker 5: to be on those flights. I mean, he hasn't said

346
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:18,760
Speaker 5: I don't think they right.

347
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,600
Speaker 3: So the head of the head of NASA is going

348
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,119
Speaker 3: to be going up into space. That's kind of cool.

349
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,560
Speaker 5: I mean, we can get into that. I'm he recently

350
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 5: said that Polaris might be on a bit of a

351
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,840
Speaker 5: pause at the moment while we figure all this out.

352
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 5: But I did wonder, you know, could the NASA administrator

353
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:35,479
Speaker 5: go into space?

354
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 3: While I likely mac this is going to be a

355
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,680
Speaker 3: new president. If you're going to run NASA, you got

356
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 3: to get up there yourself.

357
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 4: Objectively cool, I think we can all agree.

358
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 5: I don't think it's going to happen.

359
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 2: It would be even cooler if Trump himself would go

360
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 2: up there too, But I think it's like the next

361
00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,679
Speaker 2: best thing. But I feel like, you know, we've been

362
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,959
Speaker 2: talking about these kind of appointments that Elon Musk has

363
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,160
Speaker 2: had a hand in, and this one looks like you

364
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 2: and Lauren are saying out of the box, Elon Musk,

365
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 2: this is this is my guy. I mean I I looked,

366
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,399
Speaker 2: and I do think you can make a pretty an

367
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 2: interesting case for his qualifications. Right, he's not tradition, he's

368
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 2: not conventionally qualified, but he does seem like he's qualified

369
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,960
Speaker 2: in other ways, right as somebody who's who actually has

370
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 2: had experience in business, who has who knows the private industry.

371
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 2: But it really does feel like a big point against

372
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,040
Speaker 2: him is he's like hopelessly conflicted. I mean, he this guy,

373
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 2: he is pretty much an investor. Now, maybe not a

374
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,679
Speaker 2: profit motivated investor, but like an investor in SpaceX. I

375
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 2: don't know how other companies there. It's gonna it's gonna

376
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 2: be very easy for them to argue that they're not

377
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 2: going to get a fair.

378
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 3: So Lauren has do we actually know beyond putting up

379
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 3: financing for that Polaris program, is he an equity investor

380
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,439
Speaker 3: in SpaceX? And if so, do we know if he

381
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 3: plans to divest and get out of that position?

382
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 5: I asked and did not get a response. I mean,

383
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 5: he's definitely invested his money into these programs. Whether or

384
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 5: not he holds shares, I think is still an open question.

385
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 5: But presumably if he did. You know, we've had NASA

386
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 5: administrators who've held stock before in contractors that NASA employees

387
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 5: or you know, does business with, and they've had to

388
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 5: divest those shares. So presumably if he did have SpaceX shares,

389
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 5: he would divest them when it comes to the conflict

390
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 5: of interest. You know, that was kind of my biggest

391
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,119
Speaker 5: thought when I first heard it. You know, I talked

392
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 5: with Lori Garver, who was the former deputy administrator for

393
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 5: NASA under Obama and She talked about how they were

394
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 5: very cognizant of trying to maintain a separation between the

395
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 5: political side versus the contracting and the procurement side of things.

396
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 5: She said that they went so far as to not

397
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 5: even be briefed on decisions that were, you know, being

398
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 5: made about contracting, just to make sure that there wasn't

399
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 5: even an, you know, optically a thought that they were

400
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 5: kind of putting their their finger on the scale whether

401
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 5: or not that is, you know, an enforceable thing they

402
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 5: can do, you know.

403
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 2: I don't.

404
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 5: I don't know, but I think I think the question

405
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 5: is fair that the perceived favoritism is what he's going

406
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,880
Speaker 5: to be up against when he takes takes the role.

407
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: But Lari Garbo was kind of excited about him as

408
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 1: the pick, right, aren't people within come Yeah, commercial Space

409
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: super like jazz about about Isaacman being nominated? I mean,

410
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: and is there any real opposition to him on Capitol Hill?

411
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 5: I should I should be clear. I think a lot

412
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 5: of people are excited about him. He comes with a

413
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 5: very commercial space friendly mindset. I don't think it's necessarily

414
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 5: that he's going to be all in on SpaceX. I

415
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 5: think he what he likes is the way SpaceX operates

416
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 5: and the fact that they move so quickly and that

417
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 5: they try to you know, be more efficient and cut

418
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 5: costs and lower the price of getting to space. What

419
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 5: he very much does not like is the slow, unmotivated contractors.

420
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 5: You know, these are you know, his opinions that you know,

421
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 5: rely on cost plus contracts that don't seem to have

422
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 5: much incentive to move quickly, are constantly delayed and late.

423
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 5: And I shall say, you know, SpaceX also is late,

424
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 5: but comparatively, they do move more quickly than their rivals.

425
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 5: And so he's very clear that he doesn't like this

426
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 5: old way of doing business that NASA is very used

427
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,959
Speaker 5: to and very much embraces, you know, the government getting

428
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 5: more bang for its buck when it's working with these

429
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 5: private companies. And I think a lot of people are

430
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 5: really excited about or in the.

431
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 3: Piece you had on him the other day, which was

432
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 3: quite good, you noted how he publicly ISAA mean. Isaacman

433
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 3: doesn't say all that much about Musk, but he has made,

434
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 3: as you're alluding to here, comments about some SpaceX big rivals.

435
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 3: He's had issues with some of the ways you know,

436
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,719
Speaker 3: Boeing's doing things and even Bezos's Blue Origin. But then

437
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 3: he gave a quote the other day that I thought

438
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 3: was really interesting about how he views competition and whether

439
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 3: he will treat SpaceX favorably. And the quote was, I

440
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 3: don't want SpaceX to ever give up the edge, and

441
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 3: the only way they're going to keep that edge sharp

442
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 3: is by feeling like somebody is coming up right behind them.

443
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 3: So he at least is saying here to us like, hey,

444
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: I'm going to try to keep all the biggest players

445
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 3: in the game. Yeah.

446
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that's a noble sentiment that he expressed.

447
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 5: But the problem is, I'm not sure it's really based

448
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 5: in reality in the sense that, yes, I think everybody

449
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 5: wants there to be competition with SpaceX, real competition with SpaceX.

450
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 5: The problem just is there isn't. Really, there's no one

451
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 5: that's on their level right now. There just isn't. And

452
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 5: maybe Blue Origin will catch up, maybe ULA will get

453
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 5: its act together and start launching more frequently, but the

454
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 5: issue just is that there is no one comparable at

455
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 5: the moment, and so if we are going to be

456
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 5: redirecting resources to go with the more efficient company, I

457
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 5: mean it's safe to assume those contracts are going to

458
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 5: go to SpaceX, so, you know, I think it's nice

459
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 5: to say that. And you know, Gwyn Shotwells.

460
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 3: Actually asked this of the head of SAX.

461
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, sorry, President and CEO was asked, you know, about competition,

462
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 5: and she even openly admitted she's I think it's going

463
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 5: to be really hard to catch us on launch because

464
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 5: they are just the by by far, the most prolific

465
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 5: launch provider right now, and developing rockets is really tough,

466
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 5: and it's SpaceX kind of leads the charge. I mean,

467
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 5: they could probably you know, undercut other people's prices at

468
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 5: this point, making it you know, more desire to go

469
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 5: at them. So I think it's just going to be

470
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 5: a really tough for someone to be a comparable competitor

471
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 5: that you have others.

472
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: Very good, Lauren, Well listen, assuming mister Isaacman takes over there.

473
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 3: You will be back on soon to let us know

474
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 3: how that's going. And in the meantime, happy holidays to you.

475
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 5: Thank you as well.

476
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 3: Now, Dana, you snuck out on us this morning a

477
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 3: fascinating little piece about a preschool that Elon is building.

478
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 3: Tell us about it.

479
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I guess the big picture is you know,

480
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: Elon Musk is a man of many interests. We focus

481
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: here at Elon Inc. On his companies and his ascendant

482
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: political empire, but he's also quite interested in education. In

483
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: the early days of SpaceX, they had a kind of

484
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: quasi private school running within SpaceX called at Astra that

485
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: his older children went to. When the pandemic happened, that

486
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: that school kind of wound down. But now that SpaceX

487
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: is sort of building out US facilities in Texas and

488
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: Elon has all these companies in Bastrip outside of Austin,

489
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: he is yet again building a Montessori based preschool called

490
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: at Astra, and it's pretty close to completion. I got

491
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: some records from the Texas state agency that regulates childcare facilities.

492
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: There's all this back and forth. They've got the permit,

493
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: and it's not clear to me whether this school is

494
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: open to the general public or whether it's primarily for

495
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: the children of either Elon himself or his employees. It

496
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 1: seems likely that it's in his employees. But this is

497
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 1: just a reminder that this guy has a lot of interests.

498
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: Education is clearly one of them. And the other thing

499
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,719
Speaker 1: that is fascinating to me is that if you look

500
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: at his political Action Committee, the vast majority of the

501
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: money was donated by Elon himself, but it also got

502
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: outside donations, including from Betsy Devas, the former Education secretary,

503
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: and some of her relatives, and so there's some kind

504
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: of Betsy Devas Elon Musk alignment around education.

505
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 3: Danna remind me and the rest of the uninitiated out there,

506
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 3: what makes a Montessori school a Montessori school A and B?

507
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 3: Why the name at astra?

508
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: So I'm personally a big fan of Montessori. My own

509
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: kid went to a Montsauri elementary school, and it's a

510
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: philosophy named after Maria Montessori, the Italian kind of educator

511
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: and innovator. And the big thing is multiage classrooms, the

512
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: ideas that children learn best from their peers and the teachers.

513
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: It's not like the teacher standing in front of the

514
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: room lecturing like the kids. It's very play based. The

515
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: kids learned from each other, the teachers there more as

516
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: a guide and it's all the rage and Maria Montesssori

517
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: kind of developed this philosophy in the era between World

518
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: War One and wor Warshio and Italy. But now there

519
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: are Montessori preschools all over the United States, hugely popular

520
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: in the tech world. Larry Ellison basically has a Montessori

521
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: preschool on the island of Lunai, and Elon has hired

522
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: the same private educational company that helps to run Larry's

523
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: preschool to help run his in Texas. At Astra means

524
00:27:58,600 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: to the stars in Latin.

525
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: I have so many questions here, Okay, so Elon Musk

526
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 2: and Dani correct me if I'm wrong. He has put

527
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: a ton of money into the foundation that is building

528
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: this thing, right, more like more than one hundred million dollars, more.

529
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: Than one hundred million dollars. Yeah, and he wants to

530
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: build a university at some point too.

531
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 2: So okay, I'm just seeing like a very large gap

532
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: between the one hundred million dollars and the like one teacher,

533
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: one assistant teacher.

534
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 3: Maybe this is just step one.

535
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but I get My point is this does

536
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: not feel like the most serious effort, and I think that,

537
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 2: of course, I think part of why this is happening

538
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: is because Elon Musk, as Dana says, actually has real

539
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: ideas here. He's done this once before. He definitely we

540
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: know from following him, you know, has very strong ideas

541
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: about the failings of you know, kind of like the

542
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: modern education system or whatever. But also he has this

543
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: gigantic foundation that has to give away five percent of

544
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: its money every year, and that amount of money has

545
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: gone up quite a lot. So it's like it seems

546
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: like part of what's going on is there's an interest.

547
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: The other part is he needs to do something with

548
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: this money which is just in Tesla stock that keeps appreciating.

549
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: And it just doesn't seem they've thought that hard about this.

550
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: If you're telling me he wants to remake the education

551
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: system and then also he's going for the number one

552
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: fad in childhood education, doesn't it seem I don't know, Like,

553
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: isn't he supposed to be like dewokeifying the schools? Like

554
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: reading dan As story, I'm seeing a lot of play

555
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: you know, play base.

556
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 3: I don't know.

557
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: It sounds a little sounds a little uh progressive to me.

558
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: So to David's point, I think that the preschool's step

559
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: the preschool is step one. Step two is he's going

560
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: to build a university also in Texas, and we just

561
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: haven't seen, we haven't seen like exactly how that's going

562
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: to take take shape. But he's got to two projects.

563
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: There's the Musk Foundation, and the Musk Foundation has given

564
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: money to the other project, which is called the Foundation,

565
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: and the the Foundation is all about schooling. He was

566
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: gonna do preschool through college, and I think this preschool

567
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: and batch strip is step one. There's also another at

568
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: Astra that's being built near Brownsville that also seems to

569
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: be a daycare facility, maybe for SpaceX workers down there.

570
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: And then yeah, I think at some point we'll see

571
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: a K twelve school take shape and then eventually a university.

572
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: And all this is happening in parallel with Musk's own

573
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: children as they start to age. And then you know

574
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: a lot of people in Musk's orbit also have young

575
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: kids and so and there are.

576
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 3: A lot of Musk children. Yeah, the man alone, the

577
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: Musk family alone, You could fill up at Astra easy,

578
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 3: just with the Musk kids. Yeah.

579
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 4: No, no, you need a pretty big building at this point.

580
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: Okay, well, very good. It's one to walk for us there, Dana.

581
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: So Max, we're gonna we're gonna wrap every so briefly here.

582
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 3: We're going to dig into the mail bag because we

583
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 3: got another bumper sticker idea that we kind of thought

584
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: was at least I did. I don't know about you.

585
00:30:58,560 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 4: I think we haven't seen this.

586
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: That's going to be a reparation surprise. Okay. So Melicia,

587
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: a listener in Pennsylvania, wrote in to say that she

588
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 3: has apparently created and put on her modeless a couple

589
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 3: of stickers, and these are These are the two stickers.

590
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: The first one is I thought Nicola made it. She's

591
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: pretty good. And then the second one, I don't know where.

592
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: I don't know by the way I'm the bumper. I'm

593
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 3: not exactly sure where each is going. It's not entirely

594
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: clear to me. But the second one says, make this

595
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 3: car not embarrassing again.

596
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 4: So wow, I love.

597
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: It could be confusing to people who are aware that

598
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: there's a company called Nikola that has had something of

599
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 2: a bumpy road but very very clever Nikola Tesla. Of course,

600
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: that the person who Tesla is named after, but not folks, Melissa,

601
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Nikola Tesla did not design the Tesla.

602
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 3: She's going to be disappointed, Well, she apparently is disappointed.

603
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: It has been for a while.

604
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: But that's a great bumper sticker. Little what I got

605
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: to say, make this car not embarrassing again. That is

606
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: that's that's pretty clever. I haven't seen that before. You know,

607
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: we've seen iterations on that, but the the kind of

608
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: use of the Trump slogan, you know, that's Melissa, I

609
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: think you might be honest with you just onto something.

610
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: I think that one could potentially take off. We are

611
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: still waiting, by the way, for Elon Inc. Bumper sticker ideas.

612
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,719
Speaker 3: I mean, in the meantime as we wait for them.

613
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 3: The placeholder one I've come up with max for now,

614
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 3: and this isn't quite it, but I think some iteration

615
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: of this might be. Okay, we got we have to

616
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: ruminate on. This is in support of the pod.

617
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: I feel like we need to get those printed and

618
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: then anyone who sends in a bumper.

619
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 4: Sticker idea, we will.

620
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: We will send you a bumper sticker with our name

621
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: on it to promote our podcast.

622
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: Right, but we gotta we gotta keep working on that.

623
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 3: That's gonna come. Oh and by the way, the other

624
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 3: thing to send in, if you might be so kind

625
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: to Elon incoplenberg dot net is just more feud ideas.

626
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: Is I'm open to all feuds they can be having

627
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: to do with Doge, they can have to do with companies.

628
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: They can even have to do with Elon Musk and

629
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 2: other fictional characters or in fictional characters.

630
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: I'll take it off and bumper stickers.

631
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Max, Elon inink at Bloomberg Dotet.

632
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: I got it excellent, Max, Dana, thanks as always, thanks

633
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 3: for having us.

634
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 4: Thank you.

635
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Anna Musa Rakus

636
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,719
Speaker 3: is our editor and Rayhan Harmanci is our senior editor.

637
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: The idea for this very show also came from Rayhan

638
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: Blake Maple's Handles Engineering and Emma Sanchez fact checks. Our

639
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon Inc. Theme is

640
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugi Eira.

641
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 3: Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman

642
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as

643
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: always to our supporters Joel Webb and Bradstone. I'm David Pappadopolis.

644
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: If you have a minute, rate and review our show,

645
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 3: it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.