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Speaker 1: Mmm, hello friends, and welcome again to Behind the Bastards.

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Speaker 1: I'm Robert evans Uh and this is a podcast where

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Speaker 1: we tell you everything you don't know about the very

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Speaker 1: worst people in all of history. Now with me today

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Speaker 1: is a guest who I'll be reading a story to.

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Speaker 1: My guest is coming in cold to this tale and

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Speaker 1: does not know what I'll be talking about today except

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Speaker 1: for in a very broad term. And my guest today

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Speaker 1: is miss Theresa Lee. Hello, are you doing, Theresa? I'm

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Speaker 1: doing okay? Well, I like, I am really cold because

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Speaker 1: I had to ask before what it was about, and

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Speaker 1: then even that change, so I well, you listened to

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Speaker 1: the two parter we did on Leopold I did, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I visualized it so it was like I was

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Speaker 1: watching it fantast same time. Um, well, this is another

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Speaker 1: episode set in the Congo and it's about what happened

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Speaker 1: after leopold Um. And when I started working in this,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do an episode about the dictator who

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Speaker 1: took over the Congo after the Belgian's left, a guy

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Speaker 1: named Bootoo siss Sickle. But as I started researching it,

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Speaker 1: there was just way too much bullshit that Europeans in

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Speaker 1: America got up to in the Congo between Leopold dying

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Speaker 1: and Boobootoo taking over. And so that's what we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about today is all the how the West

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Speaker 1: continued to fuck the Congo even after, like you think

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Speaker 1: it had been fucked enough like that that you couldn't

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Speaker 1: really screw over a group of people more than Leopold had,

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Speaker 1: But then everything I've written about happens. Yeah, you're yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like getting out of an abusive relationship. You're probably

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Speaker 1: going to get into another one. The studies show, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's actually, it's kind of like getting out

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Speaker 1: of an abusive relationship and getting hit by a bus,

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Speaker 1: and then the doctor who helps put you back together,

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Speaker 1: you get into an abusive relationship. It's a that's a

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Speaker 1: solid sitcom. My Doctor's a bus, my doctor husband the bus. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the season to finale me, that's the wedding, my

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Speaker 1: husband bus busbnd A busbends, a busbend. Someone's gonna photoshop

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Speaker 1: a poster for that's. Um, are you ready to well?

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Speaker 1: First off, let's let's love the audience here. A little

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Speaker 1: bit about you and I worked together for years and

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Speaker 1: you are a writer, comedian, actress. Yeah, we did. Uh well,

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Speaker 1: we are most most most famously worked together on a

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Speaker 1: video about ancient drugs based on or to promote the

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Speaker 1: book you wrote. And recently it keeps resurfacing. And I

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Speaker 1: know when a resurfaces because I'll get messages. Um and

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Speaker 1: last week I got a few that were like, so,

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Speaker 1: how was doing so much? And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that video must have popped up again. We we took mushrooms,

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Speaker 1: legal mushrooms, mascara and unexpectedly tripped very hard, to the

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Speaker 1: point where like all of us who were together had

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Speaker 1: to get a hotel room for the night. They just

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Speaker 1: kind of sit it out and wait until we were

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Speaker 1: not actively tripping to go back to our homes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was real crazy. And the craziest part is that

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Speaker 1: video is just like the beginning of the trip, Like

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Speaker 1: it got so much more intense after we wrapped. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and yeah it was it was not intended to be

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Speaker 1: that that intense. But yeah, if you want to, uh, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll post a link in this episode, I guess to

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Speaker 1: us doing tremendous amounts of mushrooms. Uh, it's it's great fun.

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Speaker 1: Now let's get into an episode that I have tentatively

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Speaker 1: titled The Congo after Leopold. So, UM, if you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this podcast for the first time, you may want

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Speaker 1: to go back and download the two episodes we did

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Speaker 1: on King Leopold of Belgium. But I'm gonna give a

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Speaker 1: little sort of run through of of what happened with

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Speaker 1: that guy here, just in case you're joining us for

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Speaker 1: the first time, or maybe you forgot since then, because

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Speaker 1: there's been a lot of bastards in between him and

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Speaker 1: and now. So. King Leopold was a Belgian king, obviously

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Speaker 1: who had a chip on his shoulder. Because Belgian kings

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Speaker 1: did not have much power in the late eighteen hundreds, UH,

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Speaker 1: he concocted an incredibly complex scheme in order to take

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Speaker 1: over a huge chunk of Central Africa up He named

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Speaker 1: it the Congo Free State. On the surface of the

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Speaker 1: free state had a philanthropic mission to civilize the tribes

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Speaker 1: people and fight Arab slavers. In reality, it was all

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Speaker 1: one gigantic rubber mining operation. Leopold's men enslaved armies of

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Speaker 1: child soldiers, three quarters of whom died without being trained UH,

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Speaker 1: and he enforced order through brutal, sometimes fatal whippings and

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Speaker 1: the severing of millions of hands. Between ten and fifteen

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Speaker 1: million people died during Leopold's reign in the Congo. So

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Speaker 1: that's the story. We've a good guy, Yeah, sweet dude,

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Speaker 1: sweet Beard. By the early nineteen hundreds, word had gotten

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Speaker 1: out of what was happening in the Congo, and by

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Speaker 1: nineteen o eight the international community forced Leopold to seed

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Speaker 1: control of his Congo to the Belgian nation. And that's

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Speaker 1: sort of where the last podcast ends, you know, Leopold dies,

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Speaker 1: and I thought long after that, now today we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about what happened in the Congo in the

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Speaker 1: intermediate period. Like, so Belgium is in charge of the Congo,

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Speaker 1: but uh yeah, so you would expect things to it

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Speaker 1: a lot better now that this absolute monster is out

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Speaker 1: of power. But it turned out that Belgium, the nation,

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Speaker 1: was not much better than King Leopold had been for

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Speaker 1: the Congolese people. The chacote, which is that brutal hippo

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Speaker 1: hide whip that Leopold's men used to keep order, wasn't

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Speaker 1: banned until it was hippo hip. How do you even

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Speaker 1: get a hit? Like aren't they very dangerous? Super dangerous?

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Speaker 1: Kill the hell out of you. You got to shoot

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Speaker 1: him with a real big gun. Wow. Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: they head guns. Back then. They had tons of guns

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Speaker 1: for shooting hippos, so they can make more whips. I

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Speaker 1: was thinking, this is so long ago. I'm like they

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Speaker 1: were using spears. No, I mean yeah, they did use

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Speaker 1: spears to kill hippos, but not as efficiently. But there

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Speaker 1: was a weird little side thing. Is Adolf Hitler carried

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Speaker 1: a dog with his entire life. Um oh, I whipped

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Speaker 1: to whip dogs made out of dogs. It was to

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Speaker 1: whipped dogs. It was called a dog whip because you

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Speaker 1: were supposed to use it to whip dogs, and he

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Speaker 1: would whip dogs with it when he wanted to impress girls,

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Speaker 1: but he also mainly used it for fighting. This is

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Speaker 1: confusing because the hippo hide whip is named hippo hyde

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Speaker 1: whip because it's made of hippo hyde, and so if

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Speaker 1: you like follow the logic of that, the dog whip

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Speaker 1: should be made out of dogs. Like, there's no consistency

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Speaker 1: in the naming of whips right now. But you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want to hit would you? Would I do on'tly go

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Speaker 1: a whip? Would doo? Much to a hippo. No, but

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying these naming conventions, somebody needs to organize

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Speaker 1: the naming here. What if they called it what if

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Speaker 1: they called it a whippo? Whippo? We should go back

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Speaker 1: in time. What's Indiana Jones whip out of? Probably leather? Like,

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Speaker 1: that's probably true. So it's a cow whip, No, it's

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Speaker 1: a whip. For it's a Nazi whip. Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: fucking Nazi whip right there. Yeah. So Belgium continued to

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Speaker 1: use forced labor uh pretty much the entire time they

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Speaker 1: were in charge of the Congo. They claimed it was

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Speaker 1: a labor tax uh and they would so they would

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Speaker 1: basically force people to work for like half the year

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Speaker 1: or more to mine minerals and extract rubber from the Congo.

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Speaker 1: All of the uranium used to make the Hiroshima and

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Speaker 1: Nagasaki bombs was mine in the Congo by people who

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Speaker 1: are regularly whipped bloody to guarantee their compliance. So this

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Speaker 1: goes on the early nine hundreds through the forties. Right now,

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Speaker 1: In a tiny bit of fairness to the Belgians, they

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Speaker 1: didn't do nothing in the Congo. They built one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest hospitals in Africa and established a really good infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: so like good power system, good roads, um better than

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Speaker 1: most African colonies got. So if you're just looking at

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Speaker 1: what the Belgians had sort of installed, the buildings they

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Speaker 1: put together, the municipal like stuff, uh, Congo seemed like

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Speaker 1: it was in a good position, like for when it

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Speaker 1: was finally free, because stuff for Western civilization, right, It's

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Speaker 1: like they needed to make it so that Western people

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Speaker 1: could see a familiar life there. Yes, zero of the

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Speaker 1: things they built in the Congo were meant for Africans,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, the society was super segregated, like they

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Speaker 1: were building nice houses for Belgians and then the Africans

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Speaker 1: could the huts. They were building nice houses for white

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Speaker 1: people and they were building they were really building it.

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Speaker 1: The Africans were probably building that and they were being

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Speaker 1: forced to build it through labor taxes. Yeah. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: it's amazing how shitty they continue to be to the

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Speaker 1: Congo even after this monster leaves. And because it's one,

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Speaker 1: it's yet another one of the stories where the world

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Speaker 1: gets angry, Like stories come out about how bad Leopold

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Speaker 1: is and the world gets furious and he demand he

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Speaker 1: not be in charge anymore. And then as soon as

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Speaker 1: he's gone, they're like, well, guess the problems over. We

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Speaker 1: can stop caring about the Congo. They just need a

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Speaker 1: place blame somewhere. Yeah, and once that guy gets out,

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Speaker 1: the story is done and nobody pays any more attention. Yeah. Remarkable.

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Speaker 1: Um So the capital of the Belgian Congo was Leopoldville,

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Speaker 1: and it was divided into African and Western areas. Like Leopoldville.

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Speaker 1: It's Conshosha today, but it was called Leopoldville. Classy right,

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Speaker 1: not creative at all, name it after the guy who

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Speaker 1: did the worst things of anyone in the country. Black

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Speaker 1: people were not allowed in the European parts of town

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Speaker 1: after dark and would not be served in white's only

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Speaker 1: hotels and restaurants. Belgians considered most Congolese people to be macOS,

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Speaker 1: which literally means monkeys. The good ones were called evolu,

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Speaker 1: which means basically the evolved. Yeah wow, you got that

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Speaker 1: French real quick? Is it differently pronounced that? I out? Okay? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, be evolved. So these people would be allowed

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Speaker 1: to be evolved, to be allowed to say, buy wine

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Speaker 1: if they little white inspector coming to their home first

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Speaker 1: and make sure the toilet was clean, specifically their toilet.

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Speaker 1: If you're evolved, you can pay me money. How awful,

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Speaker 1: No wine unless you're toilets clean, which college would be different.

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Speaker 1: If that's how it worked, is all I'll say. Yeah, true,

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Speaker 1: evolved children were allowed to attend school with white kids,

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Speaker 1: but they had to agree to be regularly checked for fleas.

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Speaker 1: Children are literally not done growing. That's the definition of children. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: how can even white children are not evolved? It's not

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Speaker 1: internally consider the logic of racist colonialists. But no, it's

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Speaker 1: a good Yeah, it's it's frustrating the language they use

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Speaker 1: as always really frustrating because that's also so it's just

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Speaker 1: the dick thing to call people. Sure, yeah, um ad

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Speaker 1: dick thing to call yourself to which, yeah, it's more

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Speaker 1: like a Nazi into things. It's everybody like that's one

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Speaker 1: of the big stories of the twentieth century is like

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Speaker 1: the first half of the twentieth century is just everybody

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Speaker 1: getting Charles Darwin's theory of evolution wrong and using it like, well,

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Speaker 1: I hate people who aren't white, so that means like

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to take this book that's popular right

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Speaker 1: now and use it to like justify my hatred. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're like, I just trust that. I'm like, they assume

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Speaker 1: that they're evolved or whatever, and then they're like, so,

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Speaker 1: then I must be right all the time, because that's

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Speaker 1: how I'm here. Yeah, scientist is like animals that are

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Speaker 1: more fit survived better, and so guys like, oh, I've

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Speaker 1: got a big house. That means I'm more evolved. I

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Speaker 1: stole all my stuff from are people? Yeah people, the

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Speaker 1: deductions we come to, it's remarkable. So, yeah, the few

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Speaker 1: African children who are allowed to attend schools in the

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Speaker 1: Congo had to endure lessons on why King Leopold, the

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Speaker 1: guy who had killed by some counts half the country,

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Speaker 1: was a great hero. Jacques Delpecheen, a historian interviewed for

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Speaker 1: the documentary version of King Leopold's Ghost, grew up in

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Speaker 1: the Congo during this time. He's an African, and he

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Speaker 1: said this quote. What we learned in the textbooks was

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Speaker 1: that Leopold was the greatest benefactor the Congo ever had

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Speaker 1: because he sacrificed his fortune for the Congolese. Is he

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Speaker 1: like a Thanos character? Because he killed half the country

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Speaker 1: and then some people celebrate him, but he's actually evil.

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Speaker 1: Yeah kind of, except for like, wasn't Thanos's goal to like,

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Speaker 1: he wanted to eliminate half the population to create more resources. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but he was killing people to do that. Leopold wanted

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Speaker 1: to build sweet houses and was willing to kill half

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Speaker 1: the population for that. Also, he wanted to tricycle. He

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Speaker 1: bought a really cool tricycle. Um, so that's different than Thanos.

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Speaker 1: But well, there's going to be more monrable movies that

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Speaker 1: tricycle might show up. Tricycle might show up. He might

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Speaker 1: write a tricycle to his teenage prostitute Bride's house. If

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Speaker 1: that's Infinity War two, I will be in the front row.

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Speaker 1: This isn't testing super well for Disney. Are you do

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Speaker 1: we need the teenage Prostitute Bride? Actually? I feel like

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Speaker 1: the Teenage Prostitute Bride is very Disney because most of

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Speaker 1: those princesses are like fourteen years old. Boy. Yep, there's

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Speaker 1: always a king in those stories. Okay, anyways, so h

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Speaker 1: most kids in the Congo were not even lucky enough

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Speaker 1: to benefit from a shitty education. Educating Black Africans was

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Speaker 1: not considered a priority by the Belgians because Congolese independence

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Speaker 1: was assumed to be decades away, so they were just

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Speaker 1: going to be working in mines anyway, why teach them

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Speaker 1: how to read? When the Belgians were said the forced

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Speaker 1: to hand over control of the Congo to the Congolese

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty, only seventeen Congolese people actually had university

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Speaker 1: degrees now. A major source for this episode was a

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Speaker 1: book called In the Footsteps of Colonel Kurtz by Michelle

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Speaker 1: O Wong, a journalist who lived and worked in the

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Speaker 1: Congo in the early nineteen nineties. As part of her

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Speaker 1: research for the book, she talks to a Belgian professor

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Speaker 1: named Stingers. Uh this she was asking this guy if

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Speaker 1: she if he thought that Leopold's legacy of exploitation had

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Speaker 1: had any impact on the continued disastrous mismanagement of the

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Speaker 1: Congo's resources under African rule since in the decades since independence,

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Speaker 1: and Professor Stinger claimed that since Congolese people don't have

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Speaker 1: any memories of that time. Because people don't there's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of like passed down recollections of what happened

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Speaker 1: during the Leopold years, Leopold couldn't be at fault for

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Speaker 1: the modern state of the Congo because people didn't even

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Speaker 1: remember him, which ignores the fact that carry much like

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Speaker 1: a like just the frat boy who like he's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she didn't remember I roofied her, So I can't be

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Speaker 1: at fault because she the memory. That is exactly what's

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Speaker 1: going This is like the national version of that. They

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Speaker 1: don't remember what happened. It's fine, yeah, yeah, he's it's

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Speaker 1: ignoring the fact that this guy killed between a third

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Speaker 1: and more than half of all of the human beings

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Speaker 1: in the congo um, which probably would not leave a

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Speaker 1: lot of strong memories. Like it's like if if you've

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Speaker 1: ever met a Jewish person whose whole family but one

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Speaker 1: person died in the Holocaust, they don't have a lot

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Speaker 1: of stories of that time, but it has an impact,

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Speaker 1: Like surviving that sort of trauma does something to you.

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Speaker 1: And the people with the worst memories are gone because

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Speaker 1: that they're dead, yeah, and there's just an absence in

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Speaker 1: their place. And that is a kind of trauma in

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Speaker 1: and of itself. And that's the kind of trauma that

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Speaker 1: the Congo was going for. So in her book, Michelle

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Speaker 1: Wong sums up what she sees is Leopold's impact on

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Speaker 1: monitored Congolese people. Quote, keep your head down, think small,

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Speaker 1: look after yourself. These constituted the lessons of Leopold. The

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Speaker 1: spirit what's compreh sensibly crushed does not recover easily. For

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Speaker 1: seventy five years, from eighteen eighty five to nineteen sixty,

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Speaker 1: Congo's population had marinated in humiliation. No malevolent witch doctor

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Speaker 1: could have devised a better preparation for the coming of

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Speaker 1: a second great dictator. So that second great dictator would

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Speaker 1: be Mobot Ciccu, who we will talk about on a

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Speaker 1: future episode about the Congo, but before we talk about

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Speaker 1: that guy, and what this episode is about is about

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Speaker 1: the first hopeful attempts at reform and happiness for the

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Speaker 1: Congo and the bastards who ruined it all because there

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Speaker 1: was a chance in nineteen sixty the things we're going

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Speaker 1: to go okay for the Congo, that it was going

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Speaker 1: to become a prosperous democratic nation. And yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: an episode about how that was all shattered. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: look super excited. Can't wait, just really can't wait for

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Speaker 1: the good mood this is going to put me in. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: it all starts with a guy named Elias Elias Okita

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Speaker 1: Sumbo who would grow into a man named Patrice Emery

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Speaker 1: the Mumba. Wait, he changes his name when he becomes

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Speaker 1: a man. Yeah, a cultural thing. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it was a cultural thing, but he did it. So

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Speaker 1: I became a man and now my name is different,

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Speaker 1: and I think there was a little bit of like

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Speaker 1: Patrise Lamomba is kind of a more European eed named

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Speaker 1: than Elias okay to Sombo, and so he was like, yes,

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Speaker 1: it might have been a little bit of that. He

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Speaker 1: was born on July two and a small village in

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Speaker 1: a part of the Congo called the Kasai Oriental. Patrise

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Speaker 1: is something of a hero to very large numbers of people,

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Speaker 1: particularly Africans. Now, Patrise is a big hero to very

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Speaker 1: large numbers of people, particularly in Africa. And we are

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Speaker 1: going to go into some detail on him because he's

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Speaker 1: an interesting dude, but not as much as we'd go

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Speaker 1: into for someone like Saddam Hussein because alas this podcast

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Speaker 1: is behind the bastards and not behind the chill dudes

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Speaker 1: who got sucked over by politics. Um. Now, Patrise received

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Speaker 1: a minimal education from a missionary school, so one of

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Speaker 1: those schools where he's learning about how great Leopold was,

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Speaker 1: and he wound up as a young adult in Stanleyville,

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Speaker 1: named after a frequent Bastard podcast side character, Henry Morton Stanley. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the explorer who discovered the Congo, mainly by shooting his

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Speaker 1: way through it and murdering thousands of people. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So basically every city in the Congo was named after

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Speaker 1: someone who had killed huge numbers of Congolese people. Um.

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Speaker 1: Pretty sweet. Also, what the Stanley cups named after? I

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Speaker 1: hope not that would I'm not aware of him inventing hockey.

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Speaker 1: That would be a very surprising turn for his I

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Speaker 1: think he died poor and filled with syphilis. I hope so. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Patrice grew up conscious of all of this, of

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Speaker 1: the fact that he was living in a city named

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Speaker 1: after a murderer, that his the Congo had been essentially

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Speaker 1: conquered by this terrible king. He was aware of all this,

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Speaker 1: Like the propaganda did not take and he grew up

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Speaker 1: resentful of the cruel and obvious plunder of his people. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He eventually moved to the capital, Leopoldville, and worked as

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Speaker 1: a postal clerk, press correspondent, and then brewery sales director.

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Speaker 1: Uh so that's cool. Yeah, it sounds like very more

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Speaker 1: turn Yeah, just you know, yeah, those were all just

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Speaker 1: ways to pay the rent. Patrese's passion to day it

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Speaker 1: would be a podcast, but back then it was anti

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Speaker 1: colonial activism. Um. He was charismatic and good at giving speeches,

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Speaker 1: so he got pretty popular. And he looked like some

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Speaker 1: guy you went to high school with. Oh is this him? Yeah? Ok, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this picture will be up on our website. He's smirking

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Speaker 1: like he's kind of like to take a picture. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he he does not want to take a picture, but

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Speaker 1: he just looks like it just looks like some guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: nice guy. Now. Patrese was the head of the Congolese

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Speaker 1: National Movement, the largest political party in the country. It

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Speaker 1: was dedicated to achieving independence within a quote reasonable time frame.

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Speaker 1: Their main foe was the center right Alliance of Bakongo,

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Speaker 1: who demanded immediate independence. Both parties applied a lot of

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Speaker 1: pressure to the Belgian administrators of the colony. Things reached

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Speaker 1: a fever pitch in ninety nine with protests that descended

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Speaker 1: into hiding so bloody and violent it convinced Belgium to

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Speaker 1: abandon the Congo asap. So before in like recently the

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Speaker 1: late fifties, they had been sure that it was decades away.

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Speaker 1: Probably the eighties or nineties is when they'd have to

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Speaker 1: give up the Congo. But this unrest convinces them, we

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Speaker 1: just gotta fucking leave now. Um really modern or really

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Speaker 1: um yeah, very recently, like they were in in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen forties, they were whipping people to death for not

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Speaker 1: mining uranium fast enough. And that uranium is what made

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Speaker 1: all of the first nuclear weapons that the US used

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Speaker 1: in the Cold War or had in the Cold War.

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Speaker 1: It's also in Mission Impossible, the new one. Oh cool. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that was a less exploitative use of the Congo.

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Speaker 1: They probably filmed in Canada, right, probably, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: on a green screen screen. Uh So, Independence Day was

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Speaker 1: set for June nineteen sixty. Now, Belgium's King Bowdwin the

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Speaker 1: first flew to the Central African nation to give the

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Speaker 1: colony away to itself. Boudwin was the great great grandson

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Speaker 1: of Leopold. I'm pretty sure I did the math in

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Speaker 1: my head. In pictures he looks no judgment here, but

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Speaker 1: he looks like the biggest nerd ever. In fact, everyone

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Speaker 1: in this story kind of looks like a guy you'd

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Speaker 1: have played D and D with in junior high. Uh,

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Speaker 1: if you were going to cast about to win the

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Speaker 1: first in a movie, you would want to travel back

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Speaker 1: in time to steal Crispin Glover off the set of

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Speaker 1: Back to the Future and stick him in a uniform

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Speaker 1: like that. There's a picture of Leopold like it's a

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Speaker 1: huge nerd, which you know, no judgment, but so you

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Speaker 1: have an accurate but you kind of want. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: a contrast from like villainous, looks like a villain right

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Speaker 1: to like kind of nerdy, Like I'm sorry, you're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't really want to be in charge of the Congo. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to learn about what happened during that

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Speaker 1: independent ceremony, which is a big story, and of course

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Speaker 1: the what happened afterwards next. But first, before we get

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Speaker 1: into more of the Congo history, we're going to sell

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Speaker 1: some products. Who loved drugs maybe, Now that's what when

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00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 1: you say products, it's possible, it's possible that the ad

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00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 1: that comes up will involve a drug. It is and

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00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: actually that might be happening. But before we do that,

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Speaker 1: do you like, do you like Dorritos. I love Derita.

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Speaker 1: Is it let me ask you, is it the Is

394
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: it the crisp crunch of biting into one for the

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00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: first time? Or is it Is it the way that

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00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 1: that the coding of the dorritos, that the way the

397
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: flavor builds upon itself as you eat more. It's like

398
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: an orchestra just builds and then the beat drops and

399
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, cheesy, cheezy, jeezy, yeah, And that's I

400
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 1: love it when that cheesy beat drops. That's what really

401
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: gets me going. And let it get you going to

402
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: buy some derritos today. All right, here's the ads that

403
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 1: paid us, and we're back. We have just been talking

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Speaker 1: about the Congo after Leopold of Belgium gave it up

405
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Speaker 1: and then I and uh, yeah, we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: a guy, Lene Patrice Lamba, who has become something of

407
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 1: a rabble rouser and an advocate for independence and he's

408
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 1: gotten his wish. Protesting and rioting got bad enough that

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Speaker 1: the Belgians decided to abandon the colony. And yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: new king. The great great grand descendant of Leopold, a

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Speaker 1: guy named Badwin the First flew on down to give

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Speaker 1: the colony away to itself. Now, Badwin had visited the

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Speaker 1: Congo once before, in nineteen fifty five, and at that

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Speaker 1: point there had been a big parade for him. Everybody

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Speaker 1: had cheered. They had all been super because Leopold never

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Speaker 1: even visited the Congo. So this guy does get some

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Speaker 1: points in my book, for like, if you country winds

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Speaker 1: up owning a chunk of land that it should never

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Speaker 1: have been in for any reason, at least go go there, like,

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Speaker 1: at least look at what it is to just sit

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Speaker 1: and count their re seats, which is what Leopold did.

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Speaker 1: So Badwin had gone and he had a good reaction.

423
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: People had liked him. But then he'd come back in

424
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine and he'd been pelted with bottles and feces,

425
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: and like, the temperature had changed, and some of that,

426
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 1: a lot of that was due to guys like Patrice Lama,

427
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: who had sort of educated everyone on like how fucked

428
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: they had been by Belgium, because a lot of people

429
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: hadn't really known because the education wasn't there. Everyone who

430
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: had gotten the worst fucked over had died. There weren't

431
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: a lot of oral traditions, and so the temperature was

432
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: high at this point, and there was a lot of

433
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: anti colonial scent within. They should have just been like,

434
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: oh no, this is our tradition to welcome people. It's

435
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 1: the poop. Yeah, you haven't been here. It's change. It's

436
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 1: just our point tradition. We yell at you and you Yeah,

437
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna cut you with this razor blade and

438
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 1: smears and poop in the wounds. That's now poop points

439
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: are a thing. Yeah, it's religious or whatever. We're just

440
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: gonna use a hippohide whip on you. Yeah, everybody who

441
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: comes here has to have that done to them by

442
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: this whole line of people. Yeah. Battle when the first

443
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: goes to the Congo to prepare to release it. You know,

444
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: he clearly had a more positive view of his ancestor,

445
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: Leopold's deeds in the Congo than the facts would support

446
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: uh during the speech that he gave. So, you know,

447
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: they have the big Independent Day thing, and so there's

448
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: all of these uh Congolese Africans that people who are

449
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,479
Speaker 1: going to be taking over the government once a lot

450
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: of the Belgian's leave, and there's also all of the Belgians.

451
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: So it's like a bunch of white people and a

452
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: bunch of black Africans altogether for this ceremony in a

453
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: place where these two groups have been segregated, so like

454
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a big deal that they're all

455
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 1: in the like black people are allowed in the same

456
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: room as the white people in the king because again

457
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: it's a super racist colony. So the King gets up

458
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: in front of this mixed group and praises Leopold's civilizing

459
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: mission in the Congo, calls him a genius for foreseeing

460
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: the Congo uh and basically gives a speech that's one

461
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: giant You're welcome to the whole country. Now. Patrice Lamumba

462
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: was again a big figure at this point. He was

463
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: set to be the prime minister when the Congo got

464
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: its freedom, so he had written up a speech that

465
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: was already kind of peppery to because this was like

466
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: his big chance to get up in front of the

467
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: nation and really tell the Belgians what he thought. And

468
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: while the King is giving this speech about how cool

469
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: Leopold was and how great the Congo colony worked out

470
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: for everyone, Patrese is like writing furiously in the margins

471
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: of his speech, just like red faced and just just

472
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: adding to what he was going to say, so ships

473
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: was already really hot, and the King's speech makes people

474
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: angrier because it's being broadcast through like loudspeakers across the city.

475
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: So there's just crowds of Congolese people in the streets

476
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: hearing this guy talk about how his psycho great great

477
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: granddad had been so good at civilizing them. So they

478
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: get really, really really pissed. And then Patrice Lamomba takes

479
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: the stage and he proceeds to say this to King

480
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: Shittass and every other European in the audience. And I'm

481
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: going to read a decent chunk of this speech because

482
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: it's it's cathartic. Although this independence of the Congo is

483
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: being proclaimed today by the agreement with Belgium, an amiable

484
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: country with which we are on equal terms, no Congolese

485
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: will ever forget that independence was one in struggle, a

486
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: persevering and inspired struggle carried on from day to day,

487
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: a struggle in which we were undaunted by privation or suffering,

488
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: and stinted neither strength nor blood. It was filled with tears,

489
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: fire and blood. We are deeply proud of our struggle

490
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: because it was just and noble and indispensable. In putting

491
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: an into the humiliating bondage forced upon us. This was

492
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: our lot for the eighty years of colonial rule, and

493
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: our wounds are too fresh and much too painful to

494
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: be forgotten. We have experienced forced labor in exchange for

495
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: pay that did not allow us to satisfy our hunger,

496
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: to clothe ourselves, to have decent lodgings, or to bring

497
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: up our children as dearly loved ones, morning, noon and night.

498
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: We were subjected to jeers, insults, and blows because we

499
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: were negroes. Who will ever forget that the black was

500
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: addressed as too, not because he was a friend, but

501
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: because the polite voo was reserved for the white man.

502
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: We have seen our land seized in the name of

503
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: ostensibly just laws which gave recognition only to the right

504
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: of might. We have not forgotten that the law was

505
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: never the same for the black and the white, that

506
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: it was lenient to the ones and cruel and inhumane

507
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: to the others. We've experienced atrocious sufferings, being persecuted for

508
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: political convictions and religio beliefs, and exiled from our native land.

509
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: Our lot was worse than death itself. So this is

510
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: very well well spoken too, and like uh because like

511
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: when you were saying like he was jotting furiously as

512
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: expecting to be really like vengeful and angry, but it's

513
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: actually it's comes off like it's like almost too nice

514
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: for what they did, but like in a very political way,

515
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: like you get the underlying text, but also concee him

516
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: as a leader because he's like very composed. He's it's

517
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: very composed and eloquent range and he's getting up there

518
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: in front of the guys who had done this to

519
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: them and telling them, y'all are fucking assholes, like and

520
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: it's like more of a funk you that he can

521
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: say it so calmly because it's like it's like you're like,

522
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: oh ship, yeah, we're wrong. And the whole speech. I

523
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: recommend reading it. Um it's it's it's much longer, and

524
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: it it continues to just throw shitloads of shade on

525
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 1: the Belgians, and it's kind of intoxicating to read, especially

526
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: if you've listened to the Leopold podcast and so you

527
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: if you've been sort of inundating yourself with how shitty

528
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: the Belgians were to the Congolese, just this guy getting

529
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: up in front of them and really letting them have

530
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: it is. You don't get a lot of moments like

531
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: this in history. It's yeah, it's like if a council

532
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: of rabbis right before Hitler had died, had gotten to

533
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: just roast him for an hour and a half, like

534
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: like that sort of thing, like the kind of thing

535
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: that never happened. Put the face to a lot of

536
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: the injustices they did, because I'm sure so much of

537
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: colonialism is built on like the idea that the colonized

538
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: are less than human, because then people can justify it

539
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: by thinking like, oh, is this abstract idea like we're

540
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: better people and that's why we can do this civilizing them, Right,

541
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: But then you see a guy like that get up

542
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: and speak eloquently and you're like, oh, yeah, they're just

543
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: people that we've sucked over, really fucked over for like

544
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: a century. Yeah. So the image of Patrise, this kid

545
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: from the Congo, standing up in front of his former

546
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: masters and in the most eloquent terms telling them fuck

547
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: you when the horse you rode in on it gets

548
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: around owned this goes viral and it is a huge

549
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: moment in like African liberation um, and it is to

550
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: this day, a really significant moment in the continuing struggle

551
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: to Yeah, unfuncked what the Europeans did in that continent.

552
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 1: So Lamimba just lays into the Belgians while they're all

553
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: standing around looking at him, surrounded by Congolese citizens and

554
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: unable to do anything to stop him. Um And this

555
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: is remember a place where just a few years earlier

556
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: African children were whipped bloody for things like laughing in

557
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: the presence of a white man. That was a real crime. Yeah,

558
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: people died for laughing in the presence of a white man.

559
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: A couple of even the logic behind that, like the

560
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: fact that they want to regulate their joy or is

561
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: it like maybe it's still seen less human. And it's like, well,

562
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: if they don't have emotions, I think it's it's they

563
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: don't want to be mocked. I think in the and

564
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: they're not. They're not sure if they're laughing at them,

565
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: eat them. If you're laughing near a white man, you

566
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: might be laughing at him, and they can't let that

567
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: be happening. Wow, some petty as ship. That's colonial Europeans

568
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: right there. They are the pettiest ass people you'll ever

569
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: read about. Um So It probably won't surprise you to

570
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: hear that Lamomba's speech was Yeah, as I said so.

571
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: Lamba speech became one of the most positive and iconic

572
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: moments in the whole African struggle for independence. But he

573
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: didn't just throw shade in the speech. He also outlined

574
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: an optimistic and even utopian vision of what Congolese society

575
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: could be after independence. Quote, we shall eradicate all discrimination,

576
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: whatever its origin, and we shall ensure for everyone a

577
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: station in life befitting his human dignity and worthy of

578
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: his labor and his loyalty to the country. He also

579
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: said we shall institute in the country at peace, resting

580
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: not on guns and bayonets, but on conquered and goodwill.

581
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: So he's saying all the right things on conquered concorde

582
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: yeah sorright like well like like people getting along. I

583
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: mean yes, it's the same spot, like the grape as

584
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: opposed to being conquered. Yeah. Yeah, he built on grapes

585
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: and good will. Yeah. English is that my first language? Okay,

586
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: it's not mine either. Screaming is okay? Yeah? Um? So

587
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: that is Patrice Lamamba in a nutshell. Seems like a

588
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: pretty sweet dude, right yeah, nice guy, well spoken, says

589
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: the right things and human dignity. Oh no, there's no

590
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,719
Speaker 1: butts he was. He was a good man by all accounts.

591
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: He was a good man. Uh So, yeah, let me

592
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: tell you why Dwight D. Eisenhower decided he needed to die.

593
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: Oh no, I mean, this is the podcast it is.

594
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: It wasn't gonna end well for the nice guy. So

595
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: under the terms of the independence agreement, the Congo was

596
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: set up to be one of those democracies with both

597
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: the president and a prime minister in a parliament. Right,

598
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: Lamombo was set to be the first prime minister. And

599
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: it is possible that Lamamba's speech angreed up some folks

600
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: because a bunch of Congolese soldiers mutinied and murdered their

601
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: Belgian officers that night. The mutiny turned into a general

602
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: assault on all white people in the area and like

603
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: a thousand people died. Uh. Now, at this point, the

604
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: Belgians hadn't had time to hand everything over, so the

605
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: Congolese army was commanded by a Belgian and the Congolese

606
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: units were commanded by Belgian officers, and that seems to

607
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: be what started the mutiny. Uh. These African soldiers were like, oh,

608
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: we're independent now, and then their officers come by and say,

609
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: but we're still in charge of the army, and they're like,

610
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: the funk you are? I just heard we're independent. I'm

611
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: gonna shoot me an officer or too. So yeah, it

612
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: gets bad, and uh yeah, there's always chaos and changing

613
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: of well not always, I guess, but like an unstable governments,

614
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: there is because it's like everything's up for grabs and

615
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: and it it happened so suddenly, like there's there's less

616
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: than a year where they've known they're going to be

617
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: handing it over. So the Belgians are not doing what

618
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: you would want to do for this to go well,

619
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: because you do have cases like Taiwan was was handed

620
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: over from. I mean also they are now dealing with

621
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: transitional justice and a lot of a lot of stuff

622
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: that wasn't dealt with that I didn't even know growing

623
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: up because my parents generation was fed so much propaganda

624
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: that like about chung Kaishak and everything that now it's like, oh,

625
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that were killed and yeah. Yeah,

626
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: So it's this is never a smooth process, and it's

627
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: especially not spruit smooth when the country in charge just

628
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: immediately cuts ties in the space of a few months. Yeah,

629
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: like so yeah, something that is hard is made impossible

630
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: once the murder spree starts. The soldiers start killing people,

631
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: all of the white people, huge at least a huge

632
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: chunk of the white people in the country run the

633
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: funk away and just start getting on boats and planes

634
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: getting the hell out of there, which leaves the country

635
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: with a distinct lack of people who have experienced actually

636
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: running infrastructure because again the Belgian's number one, the Africans

637
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: usually hadn't benefited for most of the infrastructure, the buildings

638
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 1: had built, and they certainly had been taught how to run.

639
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: It's all white people. They weren't allowed in the same rooms. Yeah,

640
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: and they they weren't let in the same rooms. There

641
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: hadn't been time to train people because they just cut ties.

642
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: So this causes additional instability in addition to the fact

643
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: that handing over control of a huge reason of land.

644
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 1: The Congo is twice the size of Texas, so it's

645
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: just a gigantic miss all the funk around. So Patrice

646
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: Lamumba and the president like are working over time to

647
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: try to calm things down to stabilize ship. Patrese tries

648
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: to calm the mutineers by firing the Belgian guy in

649
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: charge of the army. Um he replaces him with the

650
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: soldier he trusted, a colonel named Mabotu, who again we

651
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: will hear about in a subsequent episode. Mabooto managed to

652
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: get the army back under control, but things continue to

653
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: get messed up during this time, and basically things go

654
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: from f to fucked her um. So, the Congo is

655
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: very very wealthy. If people were robots, right, and the

656
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: sole determining factor of how wealthy your nation was was

657
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: its natural resources, the Congo's probably in the top ten

658
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: on the planet, maybe in the top five, because they

659
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: have they have old they have copper, they have cobalt,

660
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 1: they have uranium, and they have a bunch of stuff,

661
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 1: and they don't just have these minerals. They're usually purer

662
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: in the Congo than they are anywhere else on the planet.

663
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: Their mind. They have the purest copper, they have the

664
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: purest cobal, they have the best uranium. They also have

665
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: this gigantic river in it that in its own with

666
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: technology that has existed for quite a while, you could

667
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 1: if you properly made use of the Congo rivers hydroelectric potential,

668
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: the just the Congo state could provide enough power to

669
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 1: power all of Africa. Like, so that's what. Like they're

670
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: set up in a good position, but all of these minerals,

671
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: all of these valuable minerals, means there's ship that people

672
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: want to steal. And the Belgians, who again hadn't expected

673
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: to give up the Congo for a few decades yet,

674
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: had kind of been counting on having access to all

675
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: of those minerals. So what do they do when they

676
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:57,479
Speaker 1: suddenly lose control of the Congo take it back? Yeah? Yeah,

677
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: So they send some mercenaries and some guns, and they

678
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 1: go to different tribal groups and a couple of provinces

679
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: in the Congo, and they're like, you know, you guys

680
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: should really be your own country. You've got all these

681
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: nice resources in this province. You've got all this gyms

682
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: or whatever the hell you've got. What if we just

683
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: give you some machine guns and helped you secede from

684
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: the Congo and then you let us mind your minerals. Ah,

685
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: what if? What if that happens? So, yeah, two provinces

686
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: secede from the Congo and a civil war begins. Both

687
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: of the provinces are backed by Belgian guns in Belgian money,

688
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: and in many cases the people running these rebel provinces

689
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: are Belgians, like they're appointed leaders and big chunks there

690
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 1: are also Belgian. So it's essentially Belgium gives the Congo

691
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: away and then immediately foments the civil war within. It's

692
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: just changing the name of it's it's all just ceremonious.

693
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: But it's like in the first episode that you're talking about,

694
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: Leopold kept changing the name of his organization but wouldn't

695
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: catch on. Yeah he would. He would start like, this

696
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: is the Society of the African Society and the International

697
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: African Society, and then it's the African Society or whatever.

698
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: Like they came up with all these different names so

699
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: that it seemed like a philanthropic gesture. Yeah, so they're

700
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: doing that again, except that there now they're like, oh,

701
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 1: we gave your independence. Oh we didn't say we couldn't

702
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: start a civil war. Yeah we didn't. See well, and

703
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: if you're not the Congo anymore, then we couldn't take

704
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: it over. We just said we were going to give

705
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: your independence. We didn't say we were going to start

706
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: a three way civil war. Did you want that? On

707
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: the You didn't mention it. So we just thought it

708
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: was fine, this is normal in Europe. Well, actually that

709
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: is normal in Europe, the shipload a civil wars. But

710
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: uh yeah, so two of the Congo's most profitable and

711
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: resource rich provinces, uh Katanga and East Kassai, rebel against

712
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: the government. Um So, now it is important to note that,

713
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: I think still to this day when people talk about, like, um,

714
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: there's this big controversy over Syria with the White Helmet,

715
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: it's because the White Helmets have received funding from the

716
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: United States and NATO forces. And so there's this like

717
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: myth that like there essentially a US supported uh terrorist

718
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: group faking chemical weapons attacks over and and they're definitely

719
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: like the White Helmets have gotten support from Western powers.

720
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: But it's like there's this tendency among a bunch of

721
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: groups to assume that if the West gets involved in

722
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: one of these countries and backing aside and a fight,

723
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: then that's where all of the division started. And no,

724
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: there were pre existing divisions. So the Congo was never

725
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 1: a nation before Leopold came there. It was different tribal groups.

726
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: It's like those Real Housewives shows when the producers like

727
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: or a bachelor or whatever they like, we'll get the

728
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: people contestants of fight, but they don't come out of nowhere.

729
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, we saw that you guys don't like

730
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: each other, so I don't like she I heard she

731
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: said this about you. But but they wouldn't just started

732
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 1: out of nowhere. Yeah, so there's something these already comproving exactly.

733
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: These provinces were mainly consisting of people who were members

734
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: of tribes who had issues with the dominant tribes in

735
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: the Congo, and with the tribes because La Mumba was

736
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: largely supported by members of a specific tribe. Like, that's

737
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: the way politics worked at that point in the Congo.

738
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: And so the Belgians would go to these other tribes

739
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: who controlled or who were dominant in areas they wanted

740
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 1: and would be like, you guys deserve to be independent.

741
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: And these guys already kind of wanted their independence, and

742
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: now this Western power shows up offering them machine guns

743
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: and military aid and stuff. Let's give it a shot.

744
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the way that works. So they're offering

745
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: it to all sides right, but then each side thinks

746
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: like they're being favored. No, they're only offering it to

747
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: both sides. Are two sides, but two provinces that want independent.

748
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: But the two sides are also fighting each other, or

749
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: the two sides fighting against the one just fighting. They're

750
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: not fighting together, but they're fighting against the government. They

751
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: just both want to be independent, and the Belgians want

752
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: those two breakaway provinces independence so that they can keep

753
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: getting those sweet, sweet minerals. Yeah, so the rebellion breaks out.

754
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: Lamimba and Mobow two are overworked trying to deal with it. Uh.

755
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: It becomes clear very quickly that they cannot beat the

756
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: Belgian backed separatists, so they call in the UN. Uh.

757
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: You know, they try to do it legally, you know,

758
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 1: the UN basically the cops. You're somebody's fucking with your ship,

759
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: you call the police. You try to get it done

760
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: with a legal way. So the UN sins and troops.

761
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: But all they'll agree to do is basically help the

762
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: Congolese government maintain control in the areas they already hold.

763
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: They will not help the Congo beat the rebels. They

764
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: won't do anything about the Belgians. So we're gonna find

765
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: out what happens next. The was Belgium not part of

766
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: the u N. Oh, it was, so they're okay. See,

767
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: so everything's kind of sucked up. Everything is super fucked up.

768
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: I guess the cops are a good example for this

769
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: that they're great. When the cops are bullying you and

770
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: you're like, m they're gonna take the side of the cops. Yeah,

771
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: Or if guys who are retired cops are bullying you

772
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: and you call the cops, probably not gonna go well

773
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: for you. Uh So, we will talk more about throw

774
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,479
Speaker 1: more shade on the UN and probably throw more shade

775
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: on cops. But first let's do the opposite of throw shade,

776
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: shine some sunlight on these products and or services, and

777
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: we're back. Uh So, when we last left this, the

778
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: Belgians had sort of definitely kind of helped start a

779
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: couple of civil wars within the CONGO so that they

780
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: could get their hands on some more minerals. Uh and

781
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: Patrice Lamumba had called in the u N for help

782
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: dealing with these rebellions in the UN and basically been like,

783
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: I can't really help you with the fact that the Belgians,

784
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: who are also UN members are the ones responsible for

785
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: all this. So Lamimba is like, that's some bullshit, and

786
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: he goes to the Soviet Union and he says, we

787
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: need support and some vehicles and ship and the Soviet

788
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: Unions like, well, totally give you guys whatever if you

789
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: communist a little bit. And Lamamba was like our communist

790
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: a little bit because he was a socialist, but he

791
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: wasn't a communist really and he uh he didn't like

792
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: actually do anything terrible or whatever. He wasn't stalinist purging people.

793
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 1: He was just taking the Soviet Union's offer of aid

794
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: in a time when his country needed it because the

795
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: UN had said no. Uh So, pretty soon Soviet technicians

796
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: and military advisors are flooding into the country and unfortunately

797
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: for Patrice Lamamba and everyone really, the CIA was also

798
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: in the Congo and they start counting every Russian they

799
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: see step out of an airplane. Uh Now, Larry Devlin

800
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: was the big CIA guy in Leopoldville at the time,

801
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: the station chief, and he's still alive and around today.

802
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: I think he's still alive. He was still alive pretty

803
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: recently because you can watch interviews of him talking about

804
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: everything that happens here and giving his opinions on it.

805
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: So if you want to see Larry Devlin, the CIA

806
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: guys opinion of all this, you can find it. So

807
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: Devlin counts like a thousand some odds Soviets who are

808
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: in the country, and he starts sending this information back

809
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: to Washington, and this stuff goes up the food chain

810
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: and it gets to Dwight the ice Shower's ear. Now,

811
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: this is right when the Cold War is ratcheting up,

812
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: and the way it's presented to the president is the

813
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: Communists are gaining influence in the Congo, and thanks to

814
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: this Lamumba guy, the Congo might go red. And the

815
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: Congo it's full of uranium, which you need to make nukes. So,

816
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: like fuck, Eisenhower is going to let that happen. Now,

817
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: for a long time, the exact chain of command for

818
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 1: everything was in doubt. But in two thousand The Guardian

819
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: dug up some information from the National Archives interview with

820
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 1: a guy named Robert Johnson, who had been the minute

821
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: taker in the White House on the Fateful Day when

822
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: they discussed all this quote. Robert Johnson said in the

823
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: interview that he vividly recalled the President turning to Alan Dullis,

824
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: director of the CIA, and the full hearing of all

825
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: those in attendance and saying something to the effect that

826
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: Lamumbo should be eliminated. So Dwight Eisenhower says, killed this

827
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: fucking guy. Essentially, he says he should be eliminated, and

828
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: the CIA reads it as killed this fucking guy. Yeah,

829
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: I see, but he's because it's like the US, they

830
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: don't want to help, but so they just want to

831
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: like kind of like put a little pause on the

832
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: situation because they don't want this civil war. They just

833
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: don't want to be involved in civore right, They're not

834
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: going to try to get involved in help that way.

835
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: But they also don't want to help this guy. So

836
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: even though this guy went to the Soviets for help,

837
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: they're just like, oh, we can't have that, so we're

838
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 1: just going to kill the guy. But then someone else

839
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 1: will just come in. Well, but they can make sure

840
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: it's someone else who wants to do who they're in

841
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 1: charge of. Yeah, they don't like this guy. I think

842
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: it a lot of it comes down to the fact

843
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: that Patrice Lammbo was not somebody they owned or could

844
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: and he had and he and the people who supported him,

845
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: had their own view of what the Congo should be,

846
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: and they didn't really give a shit about being part

847
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: of the US's sphere of influence. And the US was

848
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: definitely most worried about because the Domino theory was big

849
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: at this time, which is the idea that like, if

850
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: one nation falls to communism, it will lead other nations

851
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: around it to fall, and soon all of Africa will

852
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 1: be read. But there's also this very real concern that

853
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 1: they have that like, well, this is full of uranium

854
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: and if the Soviets gained influence here, that's going to

855
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: go to them. So it's a few things going on,

856
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: but it all comes down to the fact that they

857
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: didn't think they could control this guy, and so they

858
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: decided to have him killed. Mr Johnson recalled after Eisenhower

859
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: said that there was a stunned silence for about fifteen

860
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: seconds and then the meeting continued. Um because this is

861
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: one of the first times that anything like this had

862
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: ever happened. Um, the CIA was not super experienced murdering

863
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: people at this point. Now, the New York Times published

864
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: an expose the CIA and Lamomba. It revealed that on

865
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 1: September nineteenth, nineteen sixty, the CIA's Leopoldville station chief received

866
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: a top secret message telling him to prepare for the

867
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: arrival of quote Joe from Paris now Devlin. The CIA

868
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 1: chief guy was warned to keep all this information to himself.

869
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: Joe wound up being a guy named Sidney Gottlieb. He

870
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: was the CIA Special Assistant for scientific matters. That's a

871
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: fancy way of saying he was the agency's top scientist

872
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: and in this case, top poisoner. Yeah. So, Sydney brought

873
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: with him a bizarre bespoke virus that had been engineered

874
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: by the CIA to mimic the deadly effects of a

875
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: local Congolese disease. The scientist told the station chief. The

876
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: chief that this poison was meant for Patrice Lamomba, something

877
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: he put in his beverage or whatever to assassinate and

878
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: be undetected. Yeah, exactly. He just got some terrible Congolese

879
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: disease and died. Um. I'm gonna quote the New York

880
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: Times here. The poison, the scientist said, was somehow to

881
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: be slipped into Lamomba's food or perhaps into his toothpaste.

882
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: Poison was not the only acceptable method any form of

883
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: assassination would do so long as it could not be

884
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: traced back to the United States government. Now, at this

885
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: point in history, the CIA is very new and they

886
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of experience murdering foreign leaders. In fact,

887
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: I think they've only done it one time before this

888
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: that we have any kind of evidence about. Now, considering

889
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 1: Castro's history, you might argue that they never did good

890
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: good at killing world leaders, but this is sort of

891
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: their the proving ground for that, that tactic, you know,

892
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: just murdering people who disagree with America. Um, and they're

893
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: not great at yet. The poison winds up expiring before

894
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: they can give it to Lamamba in a few different expires. Yeah,

895
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: this one did. Wow. Yeah, there's they They suck at

896
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: this so far. They're going to get better. And the

897
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 1: whole isn't poison, Okay, I think it's like a virus.

898
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: So that's like, that's not potent anymore. Yeah. No, like

899
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: the CIA sent a chemical weapon over to assassinate a

900
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 1: world leader, like poppers, Like if you're once it's out

901
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: too long, but the effects are gone, just like poppers.

902
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: We should have an episode of this podcast we do

903
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: will take poppers. So if he can we do a

904
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: line of poppers or will be a very short episode?

905
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: So yeah, all of the different plans they have for

906
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: Lamamba kind of fall through at least for a while now.

907
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: As I had said before, Lamamba is a hero in

908
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: Africa and certainly within the Congo's very popular at this point.

909
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: A philosopher of liberation, he looked different to the mostly

910
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: white American cold warriors of the Eisenhower era. Now they've

911
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: gotten to meet him face to face shortly after Congle's independence.

912
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: Because Lamamba had visited the New York Times to talk

913
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: to or to had visited New York City to talk

914
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: to the UN Secretary General when he was still asking

915
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: for help with the civil war thing. He'd been invited

916
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: down to Washington during that same trip. Um Here's how

917
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: the New York Times described it. For both Lamamba and

918
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: the United States. It was a decisive encounter. The new

919
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: Secretary of State, Christian Herder, received him and spent a

920
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: frustrating half hour trying to persuade him to rely exclusively

921
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: on the United Nations and refrain from calling to outside

922
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: powers for assistance. But obviously the UN wasn't willing to

923
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: help him do what needed to be done, and Lama

924
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 1: didn't take well to this, considering the rebels were being funded, armed,

925
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: in many cases led by Belgian military officers. Quote. His

926
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: arguments fell on deaf ears. Dylan, under Secretary of State,

927
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: who was present at the meeting, testified that Lamamba had

928
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: struck him as quote, an irrational, almost psychotic personality. The

929
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: impression that was left, Dylan said, was very bad, that

930
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: this was an individual whom it was impossible to deal with,

931
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: and the feelings of the government as a result sharpened

932
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: considerably during this time. Now, well they say impossible to deal,

933
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: what they just mean impossible to control. Yeah, and I

934
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: think they also mean black and talking like he's equal

935
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: to a white guy. I really do think that's most

936
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: of why they consider him crazy. Because Devlin, the CIA chief,

937
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: who actually knew Lamambo, I don't think was a racist

938
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: and did not describe him as a crazy person. He said, quote,

939
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: I didn't regard Lamamba as the kind of person who

940
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: is going to bring on World War three. I saw

941
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: him as a danger to the political position of the

942
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 1: United States in Africa, but nothing more than that, which

943
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: is reasonable. Um, and he did not stay out. Yeah, Yeah,

944
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: and devil in the CIA guy tried to help kill

945
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: him but didn't want to, Like it was one of

946
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: those like, well that's the orders. I'm a CIA guy.

947
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: I kill people if I got to kill people. But

948
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: that's part of why I think Dylan, the under Secretary

949
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: of State, is just a racist. Like he sees a

950
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: black man with an opinion and he's he's crazy. We

951
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: got a poison this guy. Yeah, and I'm guessing Eisenhower

952
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: had some racism in them too. Um. Yeah, probably Ike

953
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: doesn't come off well in this story. Um. One thing

954
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: I do think is important to note is kind of

955
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: how the artificial nature of the Congo exacerbated the civil

956
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: war that had just started off, made it easier for

957
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: the Belgians to foment, which we already talked about a

958
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: little bit, and also was responsible for a lot of

959
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: the continuing violence that's there today. Um. There's a U. S.

960
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: Diplomat named Robert McNamara who worked in the Congo for

961
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: a while, and he traced a lot of the political

962
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: problems they had directly to King Leopold. He said that

963
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: the Congo as it was put put together by King

964
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: Leopold was an artificial entity. It had no relationship to

965
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: anything African. It cut across tribal, ethnic and national geographic lines.

966
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 1: A few of the people in Africa had any real

967
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: identity with the Congo as a nation. So it's it's

968
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: it's a big mess that we're we've got into right now,

969
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,959
Speaker 1: right this is like a fake thing that's been cobbled together.

970
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 1: Lament was trying to make it into a real country

971
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: because you can force that sort of thing. But it's

972
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: also very easy for the Belgians too, it's unstable. Then

973
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: he come in and exactly so local politics and the

974
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: Congo moved faster than c i A. Lamumbo's initial military

975
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 1: campaign to suppress the rebels did not go well, and

976
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: his decision to seek Soviet aid was controversial within his

977
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: own nation. In September of nineteen sixty, President Cosa Vubu

978
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: dismissed Prime Minister Lamomba, so Lammbo went before Parliament directly

979
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: and gave a big speech and convinced them to reinstate him,

980
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: which seemed to prove to the Americans that this young

981
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: socialist was just so charismatic he could only be stopped

982
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: by death. So the CIA went to a guy who

983
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: happened to be the second in command of the army

984
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: at the time, Colonel Joseph Mobutu uh and they were like,

985
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 1: it would be great if someone could coupe this current

986
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: government out of power, and Someboto did exactly that. He

987
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: kicked the Soviet advisors out of the Congo and deposed

988
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: Lamomba and his supporters. At this point, the Congo had

989
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 1: effectively two different governments, Patrice Lamamba's which was like half legitimate,

990
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: and President Cassa Bubus which was backed by Mobutu and

991
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: was also like half legitimate. And then of course there

992
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: are the two different breakos, so there's four governments. Yeah,

993
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: so now we've gone from three to four governments in

994
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: the Congo at this point in time. So the UN

995
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 1: chose to recognize Cassavubu's government because they didn't like Lamomba

996
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: and Patrice Lamombo fled the capital for the town of Stanleyville,

997
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: where he had all of his supporters because again it's

998
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: the tribal sort of thing, so like the tribes who

999
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: supported him are mainly there. He has his people there,

1000
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: but he gets caught along the way by Colonel Mbutu's

1001
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 1: men and they imprison him in a place called Ticeville,

1002
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 1: near the capital. But after a couple of weeks, like

1003
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: Lamumba is in this prison guarded by soldier and he

1004
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: starts talking to the soldiers and again he can talk

1005
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 1: anybody in any He's He's a charismatic dude. He's charming,

1006
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: and so within a couple of weeks they're mutinying for

1007
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,720
Speaker 1: higher pay because he's essentially convinced them that they deserve

1008
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: more uh and they threatened to put him back in

1009
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: charge of the country. Mbootoo sends in some soldiers and

1010
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: very quickly pulls Lamumba out of there before things can

1011
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: get worse, and puts him on a plane to Tanga,

1012
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 1: the rebel province where he had been prosecuting a war

1013
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: against uh So. The plane that flies him there is

1014
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: piloted by Belgians. The mercenaries who are guarding him on

1015
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: his flight to the rebel thing are Belgian soldiers, and

1016
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: they drop him off in the heart of rebel territory,

1017
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,399
Speaker 1: blindfolded and with his hands tied behind his backs. Back

1018
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: um he was beaten badly by Catangan soldiers and then

1019
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: executed in front of several of their officials, including some

1020
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: Belgians who were officials in the Contagian government. So Lamamba

1021
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: has just been horribly murdered with heavy help from the Belgians, right,

1022
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: But technically the US did it, but they did it

1023
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: through the Belgians, so that in the Congolese and like,

1024
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: it's hard to say how much of this was the

1025
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: c i A, but it was. They seemed to have

1026
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: been guiding all this because they wanted Lamomba out of power,

1027
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: and I think they had something to do with him

1028
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: getting sacked in the first place. And then when he

1029
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: managed to talk his way back into power, you know,

1030
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: the U in which is really the US, backs the

1031
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: government that doesn't want him back in power and forces

1032
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,439
Speaker 1: him to flee and then just so happens that he gets,

1033
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, captured, and yeah, Belgian soldiers fly him to

1034
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: go be murdered. So Cea is not the only person

1035
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: that falled here, but they're definitely I guess nice guys

1036
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: really do finish last. Yeah, nice guys getting murdered in

1037
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: front of their enemies. Uh yeah, So it probably want

1038
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: surprised you to learn that Lamomba's assassination was treated as

1039
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: a wonderful thing by the Belgian people in press. I'm

1040
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: going to read a quote from an important book, The

1041
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: Assassination of Lamumba by Ludo do Witt. At one point

1042
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 1: he reviews Belgian newspaper coverage of the murder, which is

1043
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 1: mostly focused on shifting the blame from Belgium to the Congolese.

1044
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: What has occurred demonstrates alas that in Africa and certain

1045
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: other countries at the same stage of evolution, access to

1046
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: the democratic process remains a murderous affair and was from

1047
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 1: like yeah, a Belgian colonial newspaper. Another newspaper noted, Patrice

1048
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: Lamamba has died the way he always wanted violently. What yeah,

1049
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 1: gas lighting? Yeah, it's super He was asking for it,

1050
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: he wanted it. Belgium's leading financial paper there, equivalent to

1051
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal, considered the assassination to be a

1052
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 1: dangerous but crucial sort of surgery. Quote. The very existence

1053
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: of Lamombo was an abscess which had already infected the

1054
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: Congo and was threatening to infect it further. What yeah,

1055
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: So the West breathed socieh of release as soon as

1056
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: this guy is horribly murdered. But people across Africa were

1057
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: very much piste off by the murder of a liberationist icon.

1058
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: Uh Kwamain Akruma, then the President of Ghana, gave a

1059
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: fiery speech that was heard across the continent once the

1060
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: news of this broke. About their end, many things are uncertain,

1061
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: but one fact is crystal clear. They have been killed

1062
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: because the United Nations, who Patrice Lamombo himself as Prime Minister,

1063
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 1: had invited to the Congo to preserve law and order,

1064
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: not only failed to maintain that law and order, but

1065
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: also denied to the lawful government of the Congo all

1066
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,240
Speaker 1: other means of self protect action. History records many occasions

1067
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: when rulers of states have been assassinated. The murder of

1068
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: Patrice Lamamba and two of his colleagues, however, is unique

1069
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 1: in that it is the first time in history that

1070
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: the legal ruler of a country has been done to

1071
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: death with the open connivance of a world organization in

1072
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 1: whom that ruler put his trust. Oh no, it really

1073
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,439
Speaker 1: is an abusive relationship. Yeah, for sure. The speech goes

1074
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: on and it's it's a really good speech. Do wit

1075
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:29,240
Speaker 1: considers Lamamba's assassination, to be quote, the most important political

1076
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: assassination of the twentieth century. Uh, And it's hard to

1077
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: argue with him. Lamambo was not the first CIA backed overthrow.

1078
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: Alan Dulls had masterminded the end of Jacobo are Beza's

1079
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: democratically elected government in Guatemala in nineteen fifty four and

1080
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: an operation called PBS Success. Yeah weird, they picked weird names.

1081
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: But Lamambo's death was probably the most significant of the

1082
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: CIA backed coups that came mostly after this um. Not

1083
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 1: only was the Congo an enormous nation for the CIA

1084
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: too of directly sort of intervened to change the course

1085
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: of its politics. But this is kind of like popping

1086
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: a hole in the dam. And after this, the CIA

1087
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: just goes fucking nuts for regime change. So they tried

1088
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: it once before in fifty four, but after they successfully

1089
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 1: get Lamomba had a taste for control on there. Yeah. Oh,

1090
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: we could do this more if we just do this everywhere.

1091
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 1: Is how America works now. Yeah. So the CIA targets

1092
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: Raphael Trujillo of the Dominican Republican nineteen sixty one. They

1093
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 1: support the Bothists and our old pal Saddam Hussein and

1094
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: overthrowing a Rax President Kossum in nineteen sixty three. Uh.

1095
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: There are dozens of confirmed and suspected regime changes all

1096
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: over the world carried out by the CIA and the

1097
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties and early seventies. One of the most striking

1098
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: cases was the killing of Salvador Allende. He was the

1099
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: democratically elected socialist leader of Chile. Here's how the Washington

1100
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: Post described as politics quote. He had rejected the Cuban

1101
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: model as too extreme. SHA's revolution is too violent. He

1102
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: was adamantly against armed struggle. Winning the presidency on September four,

1103
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, he vowed to overturn Chile's harsh economic injustices.

1104
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: He put forward a doctrine of geoeconomic sovereignty and self determination,

1105
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: a U S free future in which Chile would make

1106
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 1: its own way alone. The United States must realize that

1107
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: Latin America has now been changed, he said during one

1108
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: of his campaigns. Once in office, he would try to

1109
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 1: prove it. So so probably not going to end well

1110
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: for him, just based on that speech. Yeah, they probably

1111
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: don't like that he wants independence. But yeah, that's it's

1112
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: like weird because hearing all this, I know, we're supposed

1113
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: to talk about villains and other countries, but the US

1114
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: is coming off We're the bastard of this. Yeah, so

1115
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: one of ends first orders of business once he was

1116
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: elected legally to be in charge of Chile was to

1117
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: nationalize the copper and nitrate industries, making them property of

1118
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: all Chileans. The US did not appreciate this since these

1119
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 1: industries at the time were run by amy Kins and Brits.

1120
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: So he nationalizes copper and nitrates because he wants a

1121
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: Latin America free of what he called multinational vampires. He

1122
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 1: thought it was unfair that U S corporations made enormous

1123
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: profits off Chilean resources while playing paying Chilean workers a pittance.

1124
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: Here's the Washington Post again. As Allende's presidential campaign gain traction.

1125
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy, corporations with interest in Chile, PepsiCo, Chase, Manhattan,

1126
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 1: I t T, Anaconda, kennicott Ford made their panic known

1127
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: to the US government. Once Allende was elected, Kissinger advised

1128
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 1: Nixon to mobilize quote quietly and covertly, to oppose Allende

1129
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: as strongly as we can and do all we can

1130
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: to keep him from consolidating power. Kissinger activated the CIA's

1131
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: Food Belt Plan, which involved encouraging a variety of subversive

1132
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: elements in Chilean society. Nixon ordered US Intel agencies to

1133
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: quote make the Chilean economy scream. He said to Kissinger,

1134
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 1: all's fair on Chile. Kick him in the ass. Okay, Oh, no,

1135
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: Nixon is a great guy. I don't know if I

1136
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: like us in this story. Well, you can blame it

1137
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: on Nixon if it makes you feel better, and pretend

1138
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: it wasn't PepsiCo, as I said, a delicious PepsiCo beverage.

1139
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: What was the There was a similar situation with Dole,

1140
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: I think, or Chiquita Bana. Yeah, that's what was happening

1141
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 1: in guadal Because I'm learning about that long time ago.

1142
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: We will go into more information on several of these

1143
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: clups in the future. Um, but it's I'm going over

1144
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: this all now because this is all sort of Lamumbo's

1145
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: assassination is again like that's the door is over right,

1146
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: because they've done it successfully, and they're like, yeah, well,

1147
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: one lie leads to another, one coup leads to another. Yeah,

1148
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: and in this case, one coup leads to fucking shipload

1149
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: of coups all over the world. So yeah, the CIA

1150
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: tried to stop and from being sworn in at all.

1151
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: After his election. This kind of found out was found

1152
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: out in two thousand that the CIA had supported kidnapping

1153
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: Chile's top general when he refused to use the army

1154
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: to stop and from being sworn in as president. It Um.

1155
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: The kidnapping failed, but he this general was shot and

1156
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: killed two days later, probably by the CIA. But I

1157
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: end a wound up in power, so like they had

1158
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: tried to stop him from even taking office, and then

1159
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: once he took office, they escalated their plans. So on

1160
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: September eleven, nineteen seventy three, a military coup seized power

1161
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: in Chile. End was surrounded in his home and wound

1162
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: up either killing himself or being shot to death through

1163
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: other means. The CIA has been very heavily rumored to

1164
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: have been involved, and they've always denied it. In the

1165
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: modern interviews you'll find with these guys like because the

1166
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: CIA agents again, like with Devlin, these guys are all

1167
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: giving interviews now for documentaries because some of has been

1168
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: declassified UM, and they will admit the CIA knew a

1169
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: coup was brewing within the military and claimed they just

1170
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: kind of decided not to stop it and maybe helped

1171
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: it along once they knew it was happening. But they

1172
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 1: didn't spark anything. They didn't start. It didn't happen because

1173
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: then we only found out about it two days beforehand.

1174
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: That's the CIA's line about this guy who we know

1175
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: they tried. They killed the guy because he wouldn't stop

1176
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: this dude from taking office. Yeah, they're like someone was

1177
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: not somebody getting robbed and they screamed for help. We

1178
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 1: weren't the one robbing. Then. Also we to guy we'd

1179
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: give him crack if he robbed. Also blocked the police.

1180
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 1: We told the police it was a different alley just

1181
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: but we didn't do it. It was awful and we

1182
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: shot him after he got robbed. But you can't really

1183
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: blame any of this on us. Yeah, and then we

1184
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: also robbed him. We robbed him to stow his organs.

1185
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:23,959
Speaker 1: It's fine with the CIA, with the good guys. There's

1186
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: a new movie coming out about you know, Jack Ryan

1187
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 1: CI agent. Yeah, good guys. Jim from the Office is

1188
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: playing one of the good guys. Yeah. Yeah, our propaganda

1189
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,919
Speaker 1: because other country is a propaganda so blatant, but it's

1190
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: like Hollywood is our propaganda yea, and that is whoa

1191
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: My mind is blood there, I don't know. So, Yeah,

1192
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 1: the guy who took power from my end and Chile

1193
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: was a general named Augusto Pinochet. He was the dictator

1194
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: of the of Chile from nineteen seventy three to nineteen

1195
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 1: ninety and remained in charge of the army until nine.

1196
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: During that time, he killed at least three thousand people

1197
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 1: and tortured thousands more. But at least at least Teresa

1198
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: Chile remains safe for PepsiCo. Yeah. That should They should

1199
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: put that on the cans of coke, like instead of

1200
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: the names like share coke with Diane, it should be

1201
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: like like steal a government from Chile. That no, that

1202
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 1: that I think you've nailed. That's a great marketing campaign.

1203
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: Open a can of coup. That's the CIA's internal soda.

1204
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: It just tastes like the tears of colonized peoples. Yeah,

1205
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: so fun. Fact, there are also allegations that the CIA

1206
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,919
Speaker 1: tried to overthrow or kill Charles de Gaul several times. Yeah,

1207
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have called France so not even a colonial

1208
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: nation like like one of our staunchest allies. Now with Lamombo,

1209
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: we do know for sure that the CIA wanted him

1210
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: gone and that Eisenhower asked for him to be eliminated.

1211
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: That ship is documented. The Degala sassination is murkier. The

1212
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: CIA has not admitted ship, and in fact, this is

1213
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: officially a conspire your c theory, right, because that'd be

1214
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 1: crazy if they admitted that. But then I feel like,

1215
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 1: also the US and France have always been kind of

1216
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: weird and friend the front of me because whenever ship

1217
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: hits the fan, like like technically because the two big

1218
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 1: world powers are always like, okay, yeah, we sport each other,

1219
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 1: but then when something happens, like people are like, I

1220
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: don't know, We're gonna wait this one out and see

1221
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: how everyone else feels, like after September eleven, like of course, right,

1222
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 1: but it's like that's but they liked it when they

1223
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: were right. But also the US has done ship like

1224
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:35,439
Speaker 1: that too, and every time it's always like I want

1225
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: to jump in right away. I mean, yeah, we're friends,

1226
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: but like she also owes me like twenty dollars and

1227
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know I really are her. I

1228
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: don't really like talking to him. I mean, he's he's

1229
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: I guess we're friends, but like it's fine if you know,

1230
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: we're all hanging out in a group, but if it's

1231
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 1: just like a pregame with her, but I don't want

1232
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: to hang out with the one on one it's going

1233
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,439
Speaker 1: to be awkward. That's France in America. Yeah. So yeah,

1234
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 1: here's how we tried to have Charles de Gaull killed

1235
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: um So Basically, in nineteen sixty two, four retired French

1236
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 1: generals attempted to overthrew throw the government to France. They

1237
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: captured Algiers in the French colony of Algeria, but they

1238
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: failed to capture Paris. Their coup was put down four

1239
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 1: days later. Now, the goal of this coup was to

1240
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: stop Charles de gaul from freeing Algeria. He wanted to

1241
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: colonize at least that French colony. This angered the French

1242
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 1: far right and it also freaked out the CIA. According

1243
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 1: to this theory, Alan Dulis, the same CIA director who

1244
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: backed the coups of Lamomba and Allende, was scared Algeria

1245
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: would go communist if it was let go, which was

1246
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: exactly the reasoning we had for killing Lamamba. So, according

1247
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: to this theory, we backed the coup and probably had

1248
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 1: a hand and several of the thirty attempts on Degall's

1249
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: life between nineteen fifty eight and nineteen sixty six because

1250
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 1: people kept trying to kill him. Well, the other thing

1251
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 1: that everyone being afraid of communism. It's like they're showing them.

1252
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: You're like, we're capitalism, here's a free democracy. And then

1253
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: you're all the side they see as like colonialism and

1254
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: dying and not having resources. So when you leave them,

1255
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: of course they're like, Okay, let's try something else. Yeah,

1256
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: something how about doing good version of the democracy. Let

1257
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: them see how good Like I don't know anyways, just

1258
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: don't just walk with them. You don't walk with them.

1259
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: But also if you're going to show them a terrible time, like,

1260
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: they're probably gonna try something different. Now. The CIA denies

1261
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 1: all this. Alan Dullas, while he was alive, denied all this.

1262
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 1: The French generals in charge of the coup denied this.

1263
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: Much of the evidence you'll find for this comes from

1264
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: a book called The Devil's Chessboard by Salon dot com

1265
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,919
Speaker 1: co founder David Talbot. The CIA says he's full of ship.

1266
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read one quote from the book. Um Degall

1267
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 1: was convinced that the coup was supported by the Alan

1268
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 1: Dullas led CIA and the French press. Was filled with

1269
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 1: leaks alleging this secret involvement, but Kennedy took pains to

1270
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: assure De gall that he did not back the coup,

1271
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: and in fact, he offered to defend the embattled French

1272
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: government with US military firepower. De Gall acknowledge that JFK

1273
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: himself was not behind the French officers rebellion, but the

1274
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 1: incident made it clear to both leaders something equally ominous.

1275
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 1: Kennedy was not in control of his own government. So

1276
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 1: this is a book by the guy who found at

1277
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: Salon dot com, which is not the most credible journalistic

1278
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 1: institution dot com. I'm not It's hard to tell what

1279
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 1: happened here. Um. We do know for a fact that

1280
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 1: in two thousand fifteen, the CIA admitted that back in

1281
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: sixty five, several French dissidents had asked the CIA for

1282
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: help killing degall Um. They claimed they did not do anything.

1283
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read a quote from the Guardian here about

1284
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: this plan that the CIA was supposed to be warned of,

1285
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: not warned of. These guys came to the CIA and

1286
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 1: told them basically they wanted to kill the gall and

1287
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: they said quote the killer was to be an old soldier.

1288
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 1: He was to wear a poisoned ring on one of

1289
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 1: his fingers, and he was to shake the general's hand. Yeah,

1290
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: what would have been ship my ring? This poison They

1291
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: just made a virus to kill a guy a ring

1292
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: and gill a poison ring and poison. Anybody with a

1293
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: ring can just really die from a if the poison

1294
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: is deadly enough. The Soviet Union killed a guy once

1295
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: with a might have been Putin's I forget which, but

1296
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 1: they had like a rice and tipped dart inside an umbrella.

1297
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: They shot into a dissident's leg when he was in

1298
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: a dart. Makes sense. The ring is like, that would

1299
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: be the ultimate revenge, as if you like, you know,

1300
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 1: get someone to propose to you that you hate and

1301
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 1: then like when they put the ring on the Yeah,

1302
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: that's a long, long com Well, it's hard to say

1303
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: what happened. The CIA has been willing to admit they

1304
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 1: knew about attempts on Degaul's life, but has denied having

1305
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 1: any part in it. It's hard to think that the

1306
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: CIA wouldn't have tried to kill someone for this back then,

1307
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: because they were trying to kill a shipload of people

1308
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 1: for out of worry that their colonies would go communists.

1309
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: So I don't know. Um, it's worth noting that like

1310
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:54,679
Speaker 1: this usually gets wrapped into the JFK killing conspiracy theory

1311
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: and stuff, So there's there's a lot of messy conspiracy

1312
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:00,560
Speaker 1: theories in here. We can't get too much more into it.

1313
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 1: I will say that all of the CIA facori we've

1314
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 1: talked about today, which descended from the assassination of Lamumba,

1315
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: led eventually to the Church Committee in nineteen seventy five,

1316
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: which was a congressional committee that revealed that basically looked

1317
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 1: over what the funk the CIA had been doing because

1318
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: you keep cooing governments without because a lot of time

1319
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 1: the president wouldn't even say I want this done. The

1320
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:24,759
Speaker 1: CIA was moving on its own for a significant amount

1321
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 1: of it, or would be something like the president would

1322
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 1: be like, boy, I don't like these guys, and Alan

1323
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: Dulas would be like, I think that means the president

1324
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 1: once these people killed, let's go get our murdering on.

1325
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 1: So in seventy five, Congress is like, we should we

1326
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: should do something about all the murders because they don't

1327
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: want the president to be implicated. Is that so he

1328
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: has to speaking code or did did. They literally just

1329
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: were like, do you want to ask him? What do

1330
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 1: you meant by that? Now, let's just do it. I

1331
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:51,719
Speaker 1: think it was sort of understood, like because Eisenhower didn't

1332
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: say kill amm, but he said he should be eliminated.

1333
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 1: Alan Dulas went back to the CIA and said, all right,

1334
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 1: presidents on board. But is it because oh I see,

1335
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 1: but I'm wondering why the president was something so big.

1336
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 1: Why they wouldn't make it more explicit, like as out

1337
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 1: of protection so they can't get in trouble on an

1338
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: international Yeah, you don't. You don't want the president to

1339
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 1: be able to or anyone to be able to say, yes,

1340
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 1: the president ordered for this person to be killed, right,

1341
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: so they can say, oh, he didn't say it, but

1342
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 1: he imployed it. Yeah. Yeah. The CIA sort of ran

1343
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: with it. So yeah. This all leads to the Church

1344
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: Committee in ninteen seventy five, which revealed to the nation

1345
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of shady ship about the CIA, like that

1346
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: they had been assassinating people across four presidencies to Republican

1347
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,600
Speaker 1: and too democratics. So it's by murdering people for the

1348
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 1: sake of American economics is bipartisan? I will say that,

1349
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 1: which is nice that we can all agree on something.

1350
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 1: Mass murder is very American. Yeah. Uh. This led to

1351
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 1: the Church Committee, led to the establishment of the U. S.

1352
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: Senates Select Committee on Intelligence, which is a congressional committee

1353
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 1: that's supposed to be some oversight for the CIA rather

1354
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 1: than just letting them do whatever they want. It also

1355
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: prompted the issue of an Exect of Order by President

1356
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:04,879
Speaker 1: Gerald Ford. The EO basically restricted the CIA from gathering

1357
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 1: intel in a lot of different ways inside the US.

1358
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 1: So Ford's response to hearing about all this assassinations was

1359
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: to try to protect Americans rather than the stop the

1360
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 1: CIA from doing more foreign murders. But at least it

1361
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: was something, you know. Another result of the Church Committee

1362
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,759
Speaker 1: was the Foreign Intelligent Surveillance Act or FISA in nineteen

1363
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 1: Most of the restrictions on the CIA placed after their

1364
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 1: wild years have of course been repealed, gutted, or otherwise

1365
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 1: removed post nine eleven. One of the sources I said

1366
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: it earlier that New York Times article The CIA and

1367
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 1: Lamombo was actually published in the mid nineteen eighties, during

1368
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 1: a time when the Reagan administration was starting to push

1369
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 1: back on the limitations placed on the CIA after the

1370
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: Church Committee. They basically said, the Soviet Union is funding

1371
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 1: terrorism all over the world, and the CIA doesn't have

1372
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 1: the freedom to track down these terrorists and murder them

1373
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 1: wherever they happen to be, even if they're Americans or whatever.

1374
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: We should loo the strings in the SIA so they

1375
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 1: can keep us safe. It's hard to have oversight over

1376
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: secret intelligence because it does rely on a certain amount

1377
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 1: of there it has to be a little trust if

1378
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: it's a secret intelligence committee. But then, of course people

1379
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:18,560
Speaker 1: in power are never good. I don't know, Yeah, you

1380
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: just shouldn't it. It has never worked out. There's all

1381
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 1: these different cases you can look into where we backed

1382
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 1: the overthrow of a democratically elected leader through assassination or not.

1383
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 1: It never ends well. You never wind up with a

1384
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 1: good dude like Patrice Lamimba, who was at least seemed

1385
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:36,600
Speaker 1: to be a reasonable guy who was very popular with

1386
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 1: the people, gets replaced by Mobotu se Seko, who knew

1387
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: how to play ball with the UN in the United

1388
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 1: States and then robbed the country blind. Like he wasn't

1389
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: even a killing guy. Like he killed plenty of people,

1390
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 1: but his whole thing was just stealing. He just wanted

1391
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 1: to be Well, well, I think that's what happens is

1392
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 1: like they know how to pick people who are we

1393
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: because they're hungry for power, and so most of the

1394
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: time it's just like a selfish need for private wealth

1395
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 1: and private power. I mean in a way that's kind

1396
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 1: of like what I mean, well, all Rushia stuff, but

1397
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,639
Speaker 1: like Trump is very much the kind of guy who

1398
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: is selfish. It's not even that he wants anything specific

1399
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 1: for the country, it's that he wants personal gain. So

1400
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: those are the best types of figures for other countries

1401
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: to put in power because because they're easy to manipuy.

1402
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, um. Well, the United States was the

1403
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: first nation to recognize Leopold's Congo Free State. To bring

1404
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:29,839
Speaker 1: this back to the Congo. You know, back when Leopold

1405
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 1: was trying to make it a thing, he sent a

1406
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 1: rich guy out to Cohn, our president at the time,

1407
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 1: into recognizing the Congo, and we did. We were also

1408
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 1: one of the nations that pushed Leopold to give up

1409
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: his colony to Belgium, which is good, but then we

1410
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 1: kind of ignored everything that happened in the Congo for

1411
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 1: decades because we needed the uranium. Now Patrise. Yeah, as

1412
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 1: I said, Momombo was or Patrice Lamombo was seceeded by

1413
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 1: Mobotu SCO. And as soon as Moboto took power, the

1414
01:13:56,320 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: UN past Resolution one which authorized you enforce is to

1415
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 1: go on the offensive against the Catangan breakaway state, just

1416
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 1: like Lamomba had asked in the first place before he

1417
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:09,600
Speaker 1: was murdered. UN and US forces ended the rebellions in

1418
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 1: the Congo by nineteen sixty three. Maboo two wound up

1419
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:16,639
Speaker 1: his dictator and yeah, stole everything that wasn't nailed down

1420
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 1: in the Congo. We will talk about him later, but

1421
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: it's important to know that as a result of Maboto's reign,

1422
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 1: which was a result of the CIA's factory, living standards

1423
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 1: in the Congo actually fell over the course of the

1424
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 1: twentieth century, so much so that by nineteen ninety the

1425
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 1: population had tripled, but their GDP remained unchanged since like

1426
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 1: the late nineteen fifties. Um So it is worth noting

1427
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 1: that very recently the Belgian state at least has taken

1428
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 1: some responsibility for their share of the Congo's horror. Two

1429
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 1: thousand one, Belgium took quote moral responsibility for the assassination

1430
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:57,560
Speaker 1: of Patrice Lamomba. This June two eighteen, they dedicated to

1431
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 1: Square in Brussels to Patrice Lamomba. So Belgium has apologized

1432
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: in a couple of tiny ways. The CIA still won't

1433
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: admit they really had all that much to do with

1434
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 1: the assassination of Almamba and still won't take any credit

1435
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: for the continuing in the current fucked up state of

1436
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: the Congo. Yeah, I mean, it's they're probably a cognitive dissonance.

1437
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 1: It's hard for them to face it. And like even

1438
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: the apologies are never really enough because it's like change

1439
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:25,640
Speaker 1: the course of history, right, you can't go back and

1440
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 1: change it. I mean unless they're going to be like

1441
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,760
Speaker 1: all right, let's trade, like you guys take Belgium, will

1442
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 1: take Congo. Like they're not gonna do that. So it's like, well, well,

1443
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 1: and the effects of this, like all, like the Congo

1444
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:39,680
Speaker 1: is still really messed up today, and Belgium is more

1445
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 1: responsible for the Congo state in the United States, but

1446
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 1: we've got a hand in there. And if you look

1447
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: at like right now, where all of these the families

1448
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: of people who are fleeing for asylum in the United States,

1449
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: one of the countries that they come from the most

1450
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 1: is Guatemala, which in nineteen fifty four we backed and

1451
01:15:56,280 --> 01:16:00,080
Speaker 1: overthrow their democratically elected government, and then decades later we

1452
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,400
Speaker 1: backed essentially another civil war that led to a genocide,

1453
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:05,560
Speaker 1: which the violence of which is still continuing in the

1454
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 1: kind of like all of the CIA factory, um is

1455
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 1: still very much with us in the world. And that's

1456
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,680
Speaker 1: kind of why I I initially planned to just do

1457
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 1: this episode about Mobutu, but the more I learned about

1458
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 1: Lamomba and what had been done to overthrew him, I

1459
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:24,720
Speaker 1: felt like this is a necessary interstillal story. UM. It's

1460
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 1: like we looked in the mirror and we're like, oh,

1461
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 1: it's awesome. Yeah, we we were the slasher the whole time.

1462
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:34,639
Speaker 1: It's kind of a messy story because again, with the CIA,

1463
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 1: it's not as easy as like, oh, this battle was here,

1464
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: this guy was in charge then and he ordered this.

1465
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:43,439
Speaker 1: Like it's like the forty different journalists have made these

1466
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: allegations based on all this stuff, but the CIA denies

1467
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 1: it and says they're all liars, and you know, how

1468
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 1: do you Yeah, well, I'm also sure what things like

1469
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 1: national security, there's all I mean, it doesn't justify anything,

1470
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: but there's probably also a lot of facts we don't

1471
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,559
Speaker 1: know at the time, Like it's like a spider web, right,

1472
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:00,040
Speaker 1: It's not as simple as like should we kill this

1473
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 1: guy is probably like, oh, there's also this person who

1474
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: might die if this happens, or if we don't kill him,

1475
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 1: then we're fucked here or whatever. I mean. That's a

1476
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 1: problem with these secret agencies too, is that like deals

1477
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,720
Speaker 1: and things happening that we can't know about. Yeah, which

1478
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: is like, I guess that's to some extent how it's

1479
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: going to be in geopolitics. But also it makes it

1480
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 1: really easy to just ignore people criticizing you for fucking

1481
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 1: up the world when you're like, oh, but it would

1482
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 1: have been so much more fucked up if well, I

1483
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: can't tell you just trust me, right and you're good. Yeah,

1484
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:37,600
Speaker 1: And it's hard to trust the government if they do

1485
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: and if they continue to show that they can't be trusted. Yeah,

1486
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if they do stuff like that. Well, yeah,

1487
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:46,600
Speaker 1: I guess values are important because if you share the

1488
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:48,599
Speaker 1: same values and you see that they're following that, then

1489
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: it's easier to trust that they'll do the right thing.

1490
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 1: But if you start to see there's like corrupt people,

1491
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 1: then they're going to be taking advantage and like manipulating you.

1492
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 1: And we pretty much just back the corrupt people because

1493
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,840
Speaker 1: the people who aren't corrupt or like, why do American

1494
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: companies own all of my nation's mineral rights? I don't

1495
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 1: think this is okay. The corrupt people are able to

1496
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: they're like we always want to think of villains and

1497
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 1: manipulators and liars. We think they must be evil. But

1498
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:17,760
Speaker 1: they got there because they're good at line. So when

1499
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 1: you meet them, they're probably Okay, this is boring to you,

1500
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 1: all right, because you're yawning. No our second podcast, It's okay,

1501
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 1: it's cool. I just went on a rant three Wow, no, no,

1502
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 1: you're right, like these people are good at and then

1503
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:37,680
Speaker 1: so and it's it's possible maybe PATRICEA. Mumbo would have

1504
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:43,559
Speaker 1: wound up being really really widely now the bastard today

1505
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 1: for yawning. No anyone, I'm taking a lot of flak

1506
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: in this room right now. Is that I'm just kidding. Well,

1507
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 1: so that's the Congo in between its first dictator and

1508
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 1: its second dictator. And also a little bit about the

1509
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: CIA murdering people all around the world. Yeah, you're gonna

1510
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:09,880
Speaker 1: join the CIA now, Theresa, Well, I can't tell you that.

1511
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:16,760
Speaker 1: Oh fair, that's fair, solid solid. Okay. Well I'm just

1512
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:22,799
Speaker 1: going to hope you don't shake my hand with Okay,

1513
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 1: you've got a plug plug sure. Yeah, I have a podcast.

1514
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of related to line. It's called you

1515
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 1: Can Tell Me Anything. This feels like the weirdest transition,

1516
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 1: but people confess secrets to me. Come on, yeah, I've

1517
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 1: got so many secrets. Well anyways, yeah, Well my name

1518
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,640
Speaker 1: is Robert Evans. I am the host of this podcast.

1519
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 1: As always, I will be back next Tuesday with another

1520
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 1: tale of someone terrible. Until then, you can find me

1521
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 1: on Twitter at I Write Okay to letters. You can

1522
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: find this podcast at Bastard's Pod on Twitter, and you

1523
01:19:57,080 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 1: can find us on the world wide Web at behind

1524
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 1: the Bastard It's dot com. So until next week, I

1525
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:10,240
Speaker 1: have a great time and remember I love like you.

1526
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:19,559
Speaker 1: M h m hm