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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. It's another

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Speaker 1: day that ends. And why in the Epstein gate cover up?

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Speaker 1: Milania Trump the first lady, the latest public official in

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration to essentially shift the burden from Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: from the people around Donald Trump and covering up the

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Speaker 1: Epstein files and try to distract the public with a

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Speaker 1: statement that she gave over at the White House yesterday. Now,

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Speaker 1: the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein have put out a statement

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Speaker 1: accusing Milania Trump of shifting the burden onto the survivors

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Speaker 1: when she made that extraordinary statement at the White House yesterday.

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Speaker 2: A lot to talk about. Let's bring in Steve Schmidt.

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Speaker 2: Steve great to see again.

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Speaker 1: We've been calling this, Oh Schmidt, it's Friday, and it's.

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Speaker 2: A hell of a Friday.

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Speaker 3: What a week? What a week?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, you know, to me seeing Milania

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Speaker 1: come out there and make this statement in front of

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Speaker 1: the cameras yesterday, I'm still my Josh is still on

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Speaker 1: the floor, mouth is a gape over that, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty bizarre in a lot of different ways,

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Speaker 1: one in which, you know, at one point she referred

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Speaker 1: to her husband as Donald Trump, which I thought was strange.

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Speaker 2: But what did you make of that?

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Speaker 1: And what do you think about the fact that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they sort of rolled her out there as yet another

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Speaker 1: distraction for this White House and for Epstein Gate.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is one where I'm uncertain about whether there's

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Speaker 3: any coordination about who rolled who out. But yeah, I

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Speaker 3: think Mlania is an enigma and has been for a

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Speaker 3: long time. And we've gotten to see peaks of Milania

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Speaker 3: over time to see fully who she is and what

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Speaker 3: she is is nothing empty, icy, and this preposterous movie

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Speaker 3: her record low approval numbers, and she walks out as

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Speaker 3: if she's the head of state, She passes under the

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Speaker 3: presidential seal, as if she's the Queen of America, stands

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Speaker 3: between two American flags behind another presidential seal at the

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Speaker 3: lectern Yeah, delivers this nonsensical statement that alleges, despite photographic

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Speaker 3: and other documented evidence, that she doesn't know Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 3: and they're.

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Speaker 2: Not friends, and it's not true.

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Speaker 3: And so we saw this extraordinary cover up led by

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Speaker 3: Pam Bondi play out that included in part a further

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Speaker 3: victimization of Epstein survivors where their identities are revealed, where

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Speaker 3: their anonymity is stripped, and in this instance, the hide

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Speaker 3: the ball that she's playing is both obvious and absurd,

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Speaker 3: and I think that universally people appreciate we don't really

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Speaker 3: need to know any more details about the depravity that

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Speaker 3: was imposed on all of these women. What we need

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Speaker 3: to know is who did it. And that's why the

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Speaker 3: American people want to see the other half of the

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Speaker 3: Epstein files fully revealed and see an end to the

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Speaker 3: cover up. And Melania Trump should be calling, if she

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Speaker 3: cared about these survivors, for the resignation of Todd Blanche

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Speaker 3: not hearings that further degrade these women and the choices

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Speaker 3: in control they have over their life.

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Speaker 2: Right yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's stories have been shared with the authorities,

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Speaker 1: many of them have spoken out to the media. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why Milania she tried to hide under the

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Speaker 1: cover of saying, well, you know, the victims and the

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Speaker 1: survivors should speak and have their stories.

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Speaker 2: Entered in the congressional record.

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Speaker 1: And it makes her sound as though she is, you know,

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Speaker 1: looking out for them, when really it seems to me

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Speaker 1: she's looking out for herself. If Bill and Hillary Clinton

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Speaker 1: are being called in to testify in front of the

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Speaker 1: House Oversight Committee, Donald and Malania Trump. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: should have been the very first people to be called

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Speaker 1: in to testify, and Malania Trump appears to be covering

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Speaker 1: up her own relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. We should play

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Speaker 1: I want to get you to go off on this, Steve,

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Speaker 1: but let's play a little bit of what she said

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Speaker 1: and then talk about it, because what she said was

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Speaker 1: very important.

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Speaker 4: If we have the false smears about me from mean

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Speaker 4: spirited and politically motivated individuals and entities looking to cause

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Speaker 4: damage to my good name to gain financially and climb politically. Mustard, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: this was place not Epstein's victim. Epstein did not introduce

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Speaker 4: me to Donald Trump. I met my husband by chance

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Speaker 4: at the New York City party in nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she says, you know, Epstein did not introduce her

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Speaker 1: to Donald Trump. She refers to her husband as Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump there. But I mean, Steve, your thoughts on this.

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Speaker 1: It just seems to me that this was a very lorely.

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Speaker 1: It looked like she was trying to get ahead of

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Speaker 1: a story and it was a bit too cute by half.

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Speaker 1: We know that they had a friendship that we know

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Speaker 1: that they were friends.

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Speaker 3: Let's slow it down, yeah, I mean really slow it down.

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Speaker 3: We're watching Malania Trump talk about mean spirited individuals and

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Speaker 3: her good name. This is Donald Trump's wife. She's married

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Speaker 3: to an adjudicated rapist, an abuser of women. She's married

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Speaker 3: to the man who evidence was gathered against in the

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Speaker 3: released FBI three TOHO two files, the document what happened again,

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Speaker 3: allegedly between him and a thirteen year old He's a

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Speaker 3: man who threatened to exterminate a seven thousand year old

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Speaker 3: civilization this week. It threatened it again this afternoon, apparently,

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Speaker 3: So spare me the crocodile tears. I I find amazing

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Speaker 3: when I watched this I always look at through the

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Speaker 3: eye of my previous career. Is that everything you saw

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Speaker 3: there was staged. It was rehearsed, and it was presented

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Speaker 3: in a meeting, in a plan as a good idea,

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Speaker 3: such as Milania, you'll walk on. Oh yes, it be

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Speaker 3: a good right dare she walks on? All of it

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Speaker 3: is staged. And this is a person who we know

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Speaker 3: is calling herself a few weeks back. She's a visionary.

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Speaker 3: She's alone at the top. This is a delusional person

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Speaker 3: surrounded by delusional people inside a delusional space with other

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Speaker 3: delusional people. It's really incredible to watch, great victim. And

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Speaker 3: by the way, she had a close relationship with these people.

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Speaker 3: So she lies like all the.

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Speaker 1: Trump's right exactly. Lying is what they do. And I

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Speaker 1: mean she was obviously close to Glenne Maxwell. There's this

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Speaker 1: email that we were showing yesterday where that you know,

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Speaker 1: she signs it love Milania. I mean that, you know again, right,

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't spend all our time picking apart this stuff

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Speaker 1: because you know, maybe she doesn't lie as much.

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Speaker 2: As her husband.

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Speaker 1: But that was you know, USDA grade a bullshit what

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Speaker 1: we heard from Malania Trump over at the White House.

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Speaker 1: And when apparently Donald Trump told MS NOW or somebody,

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Speaker 1: some reporter I think it was Jackie Alimany, that they

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Speaker 1: didn't know that Milania Trump went out.

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Speaker 2: Give me a break.

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Speaker 1: You're going to tell me that the First Lady's Office

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Speaker 1: set up a statement to the nation without the knowledge

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Speaker 1: of the West Wing, without the knowledge of the White

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Speaker 1: House Press Office, which would have obviously told Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: had had something been cooking, without their knowledge. I just

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Speaker 1: don't And Susie Wiles wasn't abreasted. Give me a break,

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Speaker 1: you know, they this whole thing. To me, it's almost

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Speaker 1: as though they rolled her out to distract from the

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Speaker 1: Iran war, which is a disaster for Donald Trump right now.

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Speaker 1: And it looks like this peace plan is blowing up,

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Speaker 1: the ceasefire thing is blowing up in his face.

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Speaker 3: Of course. Yeah, this is the week America lost to war,

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Speaker 3: and that defeat will have myriad consequences for many, many

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Speaker 3: many years to come. Absolute strategic catastrophe in the Middle

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Speaker 3: East for the United States.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because the Iranians exposed to the world exactly what

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Speaker 1: you need to do in terms of applying pressure on

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Speaker 1: the US to get Donald Trump to squeal like a pig.

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Speaker 1: The Iranians got him to squeal like a pig. He

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Speaker 1: was that when he said I'm going to wipe out

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Speaker 1: your civilization. That was Donald Trump's squealing like a pig.

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Speaker 1: It seems to me that was him saying, I'm done, uncle,

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Speaker 1: Please get me out of this.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, in addition to it being appalling, he.

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Speaker 3: Started a war with no plan for victory, without any

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Speaker 3: strategy for a departure, with no clear goals. And if

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Speaker 3: there is one thing that every policy maker, when you

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Speaker 3: just turn off all the bullshit should have absorbed over

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Speaker 3: the first twenty five years of the twenty first century.

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Speaker 3: It's that it's a lot easier to start a war

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Speaker 3: than to end a war. And Donald Trump has set

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Speaker 3: it up that Iran now controls the ending of the war.

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Speaker 3: And what he's achieved is not the regime change that

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Speaker 3: he promised. What he's achieved is not the denuclearization of Iran,

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Speaker 3: which he promised and said he achieved when he obliterated

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Speaker 3: it before he had to obliterate again, before he had

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Speaker 3: to obliterate it again, before he had to obliterate it again,

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Speaker 3: didn't achieve. Didn't achieve any of that. And what he

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Speaker 3: did achieve is expand Iranian territory, because before this the

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Speaker 3: Strait of Hormuz was an international waterway, and tonight, by

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Speaker 3: the light of the Persian moon, it is an Iranian

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Speaker 3: toll road run by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, through which

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Speaker 3: they're in a position to pocket some ninety billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: And I'm trying to imagine the response of Lindsay Graham

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Speaker 3: if Barack Obama had somehow been able to manage to

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Speaker 3: engineer the feat of transferring control of the Strait of

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Speaker 3: Hormuz to Iran, where they could charge ninety billion dollars

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Speaker 3: a year for the transport of the world crude oil

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Speaker 3: supply and fertilizer supply.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, the Strait remains closed. That is

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Speaker 3: an acute possibility of fuel shortages in Europe, including Jeff fuel.

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Speaker 3: And everything is interconnected in the world, and this will

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Speaker 3: be felt in the United States.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And you know this is the way

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Speaker 1: the New York Times is pulling it. The US delegation

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Speaker 1: is set to meet with Iranian officials in Pakistan on

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Speaker 1: Saturday for talks as continued strikes in the region test

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Speaker 1: a tenuous ceasefire. Pakistan broker of the two weeks ceasefire

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Speaker 1: between the US and.

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Speaker 2: Iran on Tuesday, JD.

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Speaker 1: Vance is apparently leading the talks along with Jared Kushner

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Speaker 1: and Steve Whitkoff. And I was going to gone through

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Speaker 1: the days of Clinton and Yasser Arafat and Ahud Barack.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 1: We don't have master negotiators here anymore, or we don't

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Speaker 1: have the likes of James Baker. I guess these are

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Speaker 1: the folks that were left with representing the United States

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Speaker 1: in a pretty tense situation. Steve, forgive me if I'm

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Speaker 1: not if I'm not feeling assured here that this is

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Speaker 1: you know, if I'm not feeling comfortable that we're on

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Speaker 1: the path to piece.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I mean this as serious as a heart attack.

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Speaker 3: If you take out the people that just from the

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Speaker 3: sample that are in federal prison, people that are in

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Speaker 3: psychiatric institutions, you just take them out of consideration in

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Speaker 3: a country of three hundred and thirty million people, I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure it's statistically possible, just in any random sample

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Speaker 3: that you could draw a worse hand of three people right,

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Speaker 3: assemble me a team of three right with divine help,

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Speaker 3: right that is incompetent, corrupt, treacherous, strange, out of their depth.

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Speaker 3: M It's inconceivable to me that anybody could come up.

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Speaker 3: Maybe maybe there's a show with that inbred family from Arkansas,

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Speaker 3: maybe that, But aside from them, that's it. I can't

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Speaker 3: I can't even imagine. Yeah, I can't even imagine that's

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Speaker 3: our that's the American negotiating team.

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Speaker 1: No, and and and what's amazing is that the mouthpieces

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Speaker 1: for Donald Trump these days are having a really tough

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Speaker 1: time defending what he's, you know, the master negotiator of

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Speaker 1: the art of the deal. I mean, they've been so

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Speaker 1: brainwashed with this bullshit that they can't get the words out,

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Speaker 1: the talking points outright anywhere. There's this guy on CNBC

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Speaker 1: who presents himself as a serious business journalist, Joe Kernin.

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Speaker 1: He was getting twisted in a pretzel this morning by

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Speaker 1: Pete Judge as Joe Kernan, I guess was trying to

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Speaker 1: peddle these talking points about how this is going swimmingly

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Speaker 1: for Donald Trump. Let's play this because Buddha Judge just

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Speaker 1: gets him all tied up.

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Speaker 5: A No, so hasn't assured us that he ended their

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Speaker 5: nuclear ambitions. If he wants to come clean with the

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Speaker 5: American people, that he failed to do that, and he

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Speaker 5: asked to say that before he launched.

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Speaker 6: Democrats, and Democrats at that time said, no, you haven't,

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Speaker 6: and then you haven't hadn't clearly that he hadn't, So

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Speaker 6: then we needed to go We needed to go back

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Speaker 6: and take care of it. Unless you really think it's

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Speaker 6: okay for Iran to have a nuclear weapon.

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Speaker 5: But again, they don't have a nuclear weapon. They weren't

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Speaker 5: about to get a nuclear weapon. Do you know, why

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Speaker 5: do you keep.

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Speaker 3: Say they weren't about to go with it?

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Speaker 2: Steve wickoffs that they had enough.

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Speaker 6: Vision, physical material for eleven bombs.

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Speaker 7: So are you were acknowledging the president lied when he said.

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Speaker 5: No one knew what happened, whether they didn't know where

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Speaker 5: he was lying?

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Speaker 7: But is that really the point?

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Speaker 5: Whether or not whether he.

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Speaker 6: Was being knew it was obliterated or not, it's not

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Speaker 6: the point. If it wasn't obliterated, then you have to

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Speaker 6: do something. You can't go back and say, will you

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Speaker 6: lined about this so that we can't now we can't

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Speaker 6: actually do what we need to do.

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Speaker 5: Jomparison, America is weaker because the president launched.

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Speaker 3: Well that's that's your opinion. That's not no.

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Speaker 7: But it's clear and I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 6: Because when Secretary of NATO say the world is a

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Speaker 6: safer place, he just said that yesterday.

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Speaker 7: His job is to butter up the president.

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Speaker 5: But why do you think the president checking out all?

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Speaker 7: The President backed off of his demand.

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Speaker 6: The president set off of which demand.

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Speaker 5: Unconditional surrender right now, instead of unconditional surrender, which was

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Speaker 5: the president's.

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Speaker 7: This is not over yet. Number Number one? Is this

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Speaker 7: unconditional I don't know what it's going to end up.

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Speaker 7: I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 5: We've got Straight reopens again and they get so the.

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Speaker 7: Best case scenario is the Straight being opened. The Straight

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Speaker 7: was open.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think Joe Kernin would like an

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Speaker 1: unconditional surrender.

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Speaker 2: He's not getting one. He was waving the white flag there.

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Speaker 1: But Steve, I mean, all the experts say Iran was

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Speaker 1: not close to getting a bomb when this started.

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Speaker 3: Iran did not have a nuclear weapon and it does

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Speaker 3: not have a nuclear weapon. But I'll tell you what,

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Speaker 3: in the real world in Iran, every single member of

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Speaker 3: the Iranian government believes one thing tonight. They need to

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Speaker 3: get one as fast as possible, so this never ever

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Speaker 3: happens again. What this war has exposed is that the

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Speaker 3: United States is not prepared to fight a global war

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Speaker 3: in the twenty first century. Is the pre eminent power.

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Speaker 3: You look at nineteen forty four, which is a year

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Speaker 3: of unrivaled American power in the world. We built eight

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Speaker 3: thousand aircraft. The Ukrainians built eight million drones last year.

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Speaker 3: So the ability to build drones that make your aircraft

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Speaker 3: carrier an antiquated weapons platform. See the gerald Ford Sailing

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Speaker 3: Back to Greece after a fire disables it. The Abraham

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Speaker 3: Lincoln out in the Indian Ocean, out of range of

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Speaker 3: the Iranian armaments. And we're talking about Iran, not a

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Speaker 3: fight in the Western Pacific. So we've seen a lot

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Speaker 3: of valuable lessons learned from the size of our weapons

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Speaker 3: inventory to its indiscriminate use. But astonishingly in this story

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Speaker 3: in the New York Times and the reporting of Jonathan

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Speaker 3: Swan and Maggie Haberman from a book they're working on together,

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Speaker 3: takes you into a room where, incredibly jd Vance is

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Speaker 3: not in the room. Telsey Gabbert is not in the room,

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Speaker 3: but Stephen Chung is in the room, and Carolyn Levitt

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Speaker 3: is in the room. Unreal, and Trump goes around the

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Speaker 3: room and it's comforting to know that that General Kine,

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Speaker 3: he has the same position as Stephen Chung and Carolyn

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Speaker 3: Levitt raising Kane, old General Kane, Right, yeah, right. The

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Speaker 3: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has the same

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Speaker 3: exact position as Carolyn Levitt when it comes to his

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Speaker 3: dear leader, which is, whatever you decide, it's the right

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Speaker 3: thing to do, the right thing to do right. So

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Speaker 3: that's the advice that Donald Trump gets around the table.

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Speaker 3: Whatever you decide, it's brilliant. Right to bomber or not

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Speaker 3: to bomb, you decide. And so what we have achieved

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Speaker 3: not my words. I've been before this began. What I

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Speaker 3: talked about with you was that the Strait of Hormuz

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Speaker 3: was a very narrow waterway between Oman and Iran. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and that you couldn't control it with airpower. That's what

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Speaker 3: we talked about.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 3: But no one talked about that in the situation room

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Speaker 3: where bb Net and Yahoo was right apparently.

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Speaker 1: John Rackliffe, yeah, John Radcliffe said, you know, regime change

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Speaker 1: was farcical.

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Speaker 2: At the very least.

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Speaker 1: John Racleih, who was the head of the CIA, dest

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Speaker 1: not really having any intelligence experience up until Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: put him in charge.

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Speaker 2: Of intelligence at least raise some decent points.

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Speaker 1: And but Trump, you know, giving it about as much

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Speaker 1: thought as he gives a truth. Social Posts said, let's

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Speaker 1: let's do it, despite just about every US president for

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Speaker 1: the last fifty years basically telling the Israeli is the

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Speaker 1: same thing. No, we're not going to go to war

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Speaker 1: with a run the Israelis. Finally, bb Netana, you finally

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Speaker 1: found a president who will go to war with a run,

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Speaker 1: and now we're seeing the consequences of it.

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Speaker 3: And the Iranians have control of the Straight. Yeah, because

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Speaker 3: the insurance markets have ruled that the Strait is contested.

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Speaker 3: So long as the insurance markets hold that the Strait

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Speaker 3: is militarily contested, the Iranians controlled the Strait.

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Speaker 6: Ye.

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Speaker 3: Such, and thus is the interconnected global economy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you know, speaking of truth social posts, you know, Steve,

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Speaker 1: you think you and I give Donald Trump a hard time,

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Speaker 1: not as hard as Megan Kelly, Tucker Carlson and other

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Speaker 1: MAGA figures who used to call the the likes of

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Speaker 1: us victims of Trump arrangement syndrome. Donald Trump published or

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Speaker 1: posted this massive screed on his truth social account, and

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Speaker 1: I found an article that talks about it that mentions

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Speaker 1: the number of words here. I just want to find

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Speaker 1: this because it's absolutely crazy. Apparently it's it's like, it's

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Speaker 1: four hundred and eighty two words, this truth social of

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Speaker 1: Trump going after Tucker Carlson, Meghan Kelly, Candice Owens, and

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones. And I was going to end the show

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Speaker 1: and I'll just I'll say it now, but I'll reiterate

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Speaker 1: it at the end of the At the end of

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Speaker 1: the show, I feel like saying to Megan Kelly and

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Speaker 1: Tucker Crosson, I told you so, We told you so.

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Speaker 1: We told you that Donald Trump was a maniac, and

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Speaker 1: we told you that he would eventually throw you under

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Speaker 1: the bus. And he's now he's throwing them under the

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Speaker 1: bus and attacking them for raising legitimate criticisms of his

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Speaker 1: policy towards irun, which is a hot, stinking mess.

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Speaker 3: I think for sure. You know this is the story

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Speaker 3: of the frog and the scorpion, where the frog carries

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Speaker 3: the scorpion across the river, the scorpion promising not to

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Speaker 3: sting him, and then when the scorpion does, the frog

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Speaker 3: ass why why we'll both drown now, and the scorpion says,

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Speaker 3: it's my nature. There is something fundamentally American about you,

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Speaker 3: Jim Acosta, and something that is deeply ingrained in the

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Speaker 3: American conscience, which is this idea. This this idea of

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Speaker 3: the binary the black hat and the white hat, good

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Speaker 3: and bad. This is this is the this is the

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Speaker 3: Michael Cohen right, that's right, right, that Michael Cohen bad.

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Speaker 3: Michael Cohen good. Now he's against this and he's bad again.

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Speaker 3: The whole, the whole. They're all bad. They're all bad. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I I've said this before, I'm gonna I'm wanna

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Speaker 3: put a stamp on it today, right, make this date

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Speaker 3: the official prediction. Tucker Carlson's running for president. Yes, by

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Speaker 3: the time we get to another year of this, MAGA

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Speaker 3: is going to be discredited. And what's going to be

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Speaker 3: discredited is it the racism? Is it the bigotry, the insanity,

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Speaker 3: the stream is the lust for power? No, what's going

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Speaker 3: to be discredited is none of the animating bigotries of MAGA.

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Speaker 3: In the eyes of the Tucker Carlson's it's Trump. That

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Speaker 3: Trump wasn't ineffective leader. He was, as it turned out,

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Speaker 3: a week elderly, obese and crazy furor with Tankles. We

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Speaker 3: need a younger, smarter guy who really believes this stuff

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Speaker 3: like Tucker Carlson. And you're seeing and this plays out

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Speaker 3: the beginning of the campaign is the mic ho could

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Speaker 3: be interview and that breach is not a reparable one.

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Speaker 3: And so Megan Kelly's in show business. But but Megan

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Speaker 3: Kelly can look at Tucker Carlson and and have the delusion, Well,

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Speaker 3: I can be Secretary of stay, yeah, I could be

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Speaker 3: secretary going for vice president. I think I could be

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Speaker 3: vice president. And and so the old Maga entertainments here

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Speaker 3: you look at Tucker Carlson's reaction to it, which is

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Speaker 3: which is brilliant. I have to get I have to

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Speaker 3: give it to him. And and you know how much

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Speaker 3: better at politics Tucker Carlson is than JD. Vance and

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Speaker 3: Tucker Carlson. Because Trump, after all of that, what's Tucker

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Speaker 3: Carlson's response. It's I love you Trump, I love you,

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Speaker 3: I love you. I'm just worried about you, right like

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Speaker 3: It's truly amazing.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 3: Its true. He is a wonderfully gifted demagogue.

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Speaker 1: He is no And that's that's going to be the

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Speaker 1: issue for the remnants of MAGA is that Trump was

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Speaker 1: not a competent fascist and and Tucker Carlson is would

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Speaker 1: be a more youthful and I suppose were competent fascist

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Speaker 1: for the America First Movement to get behind whatever they

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Speaker 1: decided to call it next. And but you know, Megan

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Speaker 1: Kelly is a little different in that she was, I

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Speaker 1: guess furious over Trump threatening to wipe out the and

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Speaker 1: Ronnie and civilization. And you know, she was losing your

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Speaker 1: shit over that and saying, why can't he sound like

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Speaker 1: a normal president. And I just want to say to

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Speaker 1: Megan Kelly, first of all, I told you so. But

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Speaker 1: second of all, you know we heard this during the

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen campaign when Trump talked about blood coming out

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Speaker 1: of her.

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Speaker 2: Wherever, and you know I would.

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Speaker 1: And then by the time we get to the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four campaign, Megan Kelly is out on the campaign

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Speaker 1: trail for Donald Trump like Patty Hurt. Yeah, it's Stockholm syndrome.

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Speaker 1: And it just it ends this way. And I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad you brought up Michael. It ends this way for

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Speaker 1: all of them, Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon. You know, there

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Speaker 1: is no bus that has had as many people thrown

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Speaker 1: under it as the Trump buss. It is it is

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Speaker 1: absolutely always the case, and they and nobody ever learned.

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Speaker 1: And it's I mean, at least I will give Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump some credit. The other day he said I like

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Speaker 1: to surround myself with losers and he doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: be around winners. And and it seems to me that,

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Speaker 1: you know, that is Donald Trump as close as he

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Speaker 1: can to telling the truth. And I just you know

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Speaker 1: it shocks me for the life of and the other

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Speaker 1: thing too. We should show the truth social post again

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Speaker 1: for anybody who has any doubt left. How are how

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Speaker 1: is this the rambling of a sane person at the

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Speaker 1: very end of the United States is now the hottest

436
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: country anywhere? Nobody's nobody says that he's this.

437
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 2: Is all insanity.

438
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: I think, I think with all of this stuff, right,

439
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 3: you know, especially for our kids, right, you know, there's

440
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: a record of everything, Yes that God we said and

441
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 3: thought about in in this era certainly, and you know

442
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 3: our grandkids or great grandkids can all go look at

443
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 3: it all, go look at it. Someday. We write about

444
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 3: this every day, we talk about it every day. I

445
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 3: think the thing in this moment for posterity, uh to

446
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 3: put a nail on that will that will be tough

447
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 3: to convey down the line when we're outside the moment

448
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 3: of intense lived memory is the degree to which this

449
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: is the age of the whack job, the unrestrained whack job?

450
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 3: Is that true across the board in MAGA the rise

451
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 3: of people that universally one hundred percent of everybody would

452
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 3: have looked at that person and identified them not as

453
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: a conservative, not as it this not as a that said,

454
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 3: well what about well he's a whack job. And now

455
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 3: that person a Pete Hagsath, a Janine Piro, whatever whack

456
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: job you may want to point a finger at now,

457
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 3: is trying to lock up political opponents, is trying to

458
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 3: wage war in Jesus' name. And the damage the whack

459
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: jobs have done to institution, some of which, in the

460
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 3: case of the military, the Army of the Navy, the

461
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 3: Marine Corps are older than the country itself. The animating

462
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: issue in the next presidential primary process, like what's the

463
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 3: election going to be about? Right? The the election is

464
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: going to be about cleaning cleaning this up and per

465
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 3: your point with Pete, with Pete Boodaje edge there. I mean,

466
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: it's just you just see it so rarely right where

467
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 3: you even have an opportunity to engage one of these people.

468
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: I mean, I think, you know, I'm jealous, Like I

469
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 3: would love an opportunity to debate, to debate that guy, right,

470
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: to be able to have a conference, like what what's

471
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 3: he talking about?

472
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 8: Right?

473
00:29:54,520 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 3: Trump? Trump declared a war, started a war right to

474
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 3: take to get hold of the uranium, which he already

475
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 3: said he obliterated the Iranians now possessed the straight of

476
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 3: horror moves. He shocked the entire and we're winning. We're winning.

477
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: I mean, what a what a fool?

478
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

479
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 3: And and and then he goes out on television and

480
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: says it, looks at at the camera and says it,

481
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 3: what a what a what a fool?

482
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, no question about it. And and and.

483
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: The uh, the fools are the folks who are still

484
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: clinging to this guy, It seems to me. And you know,

485
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: I suppose he's going to make losers and suckers out

486
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: of more of folks to come, I guess for the

487
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: folks who are still clinging to what's left of MAGA.

488
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: But Steve Schmidt, as always, my man, thank you so much,

489
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for another hol you too, my man,

490
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: thank you.

491
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: We'll do it again soon.

492
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: You got it.

493
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot.

494
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: And you know, for as many folks who worry about

495
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump blowing up the world, and yes, we all

496
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: had that concern earlier this week, there's no question about it.

497
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: When he was threatening to wipe out civilization, you know,

498
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: or US civilization. I was worried about all civilization and

499
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: I think you were too. But the other thing that,

500
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: you know, I think is an existential threat, and it's

501
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: becoming more clear to be an existential threat. Maybe it'll

502
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: be more so in the years to come, but it

503
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: sure is starting to look like one right now. Is

504
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence. I'll say that I'm concerned about it. I

505
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: don't think I'm the only one, but some a very

506
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: respected journalist, an amazing journalist, has just written I think

507
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: what is the signature piece of the moment when it

508
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: comes to artificial intelligence and the concerns about it, and

509
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: that is the wonderful Ronan Pharaoh of the New Yorker.

510
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: Let's bring him in. There's Ronan, right, Hey, Ronan, great

511
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: to see again. It's been too.

512
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 9: Long, Yeah, it has been too long. Congratulations on the show.

513
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 9: You've been doing great work.

514
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: Oh thank you, man. I appreciate it.

515
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm just doing my thing, but you are definitely doing

516
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: your thing, and I'm singing your praises, so I hope

517
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: I'm not embarrassing you too much.

518
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: But this is a terrific piece that you.

519
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: And Andrew Morantz wrote for The New Yorker about Sam Altman.

520
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: And Andrew wrote that great book Anti Social I'm a

521
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: big fan of his two but Ronan walk us through this,

522
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: and I do want to read. And I didn't clip

523
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: this out and send this to my team, but I

524
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: do want to read the first paragraph if I can.

525
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: And I'm going to probably get some words wrong here

526
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: and names wrong, but it says In the fall of

527
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, Ilia Suitskev, open AI's chief scientists send

528
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: secret members to three fellow members of the organization's board

529
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: of directors. For weeks, they've been having few furtive discussions

530
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: about whether Sam Altman, open ai CEO, and Greg Brockman,

531
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: his second and command, were fit to run the company.

532
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: Suitzkev had once counted both men his friends. In twenty nineteen,

533
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: he officiated Brockman's wedding and the ceremony at open AI's

534
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: offices that included a ringber in the form of a

535
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: robotic hand that's kind of amazing. But as he grew

536
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: convinced that the company was nearing its long term goal

537
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: creating and artificial intelligence that could rival or surpass the

538
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: cognitive abilities of human beings, his doubts about Altman increased.

539
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: As Suitskiverer put it to another board member at the time,

540
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: I don't think Sam is right. Guy or is the

541
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: guy who should have his finger on the button? Ronan

542
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: amazing work, and I guess how did you? I can't

543
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: ask for all of your secrets here, but how did

544
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: you go about developing this such a three dimensional, you know,

545
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: multidimensional picture of this very mysterious figure who is at

546
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: the top of a various mysterious technology right now.

547
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 9: Well, first of all, I came at it from a

548
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 9: big picture standpoint. I had just come off of a

549
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 9: long body of reporting about Elon Musk, which came to

550
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 9: a head at a time when people weren't talking explicitly

551
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 9: about some of the warning signs that people now acknowledge

552
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 9: around Musk and where his power was really becoming super governmental.

553
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 9: You know, I broke some news about his through his

554
00:33:54,400 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 9: Starlink business, control of battlefield tactics in Ukraine, and the

555
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 9: kind of powerfulness of defense officials to contend with that

556
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 9: that basically you had an unaccountable private mogul just subjecting

557
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 9: geopolitics to his whims. And so the bigger picture of

558
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 9: Silicon Valley assuming control of the levers of power in

559
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 9: America and the hollowing of political systems that could counterbalance

560
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 9: that was something that felt increasingly important to me, and

561
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 9: it was apparent to me in talking to Elon, and this,

562
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 9: you know, requires no special genius. Obviously that AI was

563
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 9: the next frontier of that challenge of power balance in America.

564
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 9: Sam Altman was on the record in that story, and

565
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 9: it's actually a few people have picked up on the

566
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 9: parallel and mostly I'm not having, you know, long form

567
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 9: conversations about the origin of the story like this, so

568
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 9: it hasn't come up in that many interviews. This week,

569
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 9: Sam On instead of Elon, and I'm only lightly paraphrasing here.

570
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 9: You know, Elon Musk wants to save humanity, but only

571
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 9: if he can be the one to save humanity.

572
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 10: And Sam likes.

573
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 9: To say a lot that every accusation is a confession,

574
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 9: and you know, you can read the piece and judge

575
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 9: whether there is also there's obviously two very different individuals

576
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 9: in many consequential ways, but you can judge whether there

577
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 9: is also a whiff of that same dynamic with Sam.

578
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 10: One thing is.

579
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 9: For sure, the very people who are building AI and

580
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 9: now in full acceleration mode with AI just we've got

581
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 9: to win the we being whichever company you're talking to,

582
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 9: right and sidelining safety in the process, in the view

583
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 9: of many critics and many of the actual underlying technical

584
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 9: folks we talked to in this piece. You know, we

585
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 9: carry essentially whistleblower emails in this piece for from open

586
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 9: ai researchers to the board, which we can talk about.

587
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 9: But as they're doing that, as they're accelerating, as they're

588
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 9: allegedly sidelining safety in meaningful ways, the risks that they

589
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 9: warned about, you know, these are in many cases Open

590
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 9: ai included companies that were founded explicitly to focus on safety.

591
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 9: Open ai started as a non profit focused on safety.

592
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 9: Those risks have knock gone away, and so you have

593
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 9: this combination of a kind of runaway train of acceleration,

594
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 9: safety risks that are more real than ever, and we

595
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 9: can talk about some of the specific ones, and a

596
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 9: political and regulatory backdrop that really does not place meaningful

597
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 9: guardrails on these companies and individuals.

598
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean it's almost like the way you

599
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: describe it, it sounds like there's sort of a space race

600
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: going on in AI, and instead of countries competing with

601
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: one another, you have large corporations that aren't accountable to anybody,

602
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: and they work behind the scenes and you know, cloaked

603
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: in secrecy, corporate secrecy, and the public has no you know,

604
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: into what's going on. And Washington, my sense of it

605
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: in DC is that the lawmakers and government they're just

606
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: so far behind and understanding the potential and what the

607
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: risks are that they just have no idea. They kind

608
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: of have no idea what they're doing in terms of

609
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: regulating this. And that's what makes you the picture you

610
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: paint so concerning, because it sounds as though from what

611
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: you've gathered from documents and talking to people confidentially, is

612
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: that people do not have a lot of confidence in

613
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: Sam Altman, and it makes you wonder who else is

614
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: minding the story at these other companies and what they're

615
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: made of. I mean, that's what I'm concerned about.

616
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 9: And you kind of you land on an important broadening

617
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 9: point there. You look at the story of Anthropic, which

618
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 9: we talk about topic was founded that there were senior

619
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 9: Open AI people who did not trust Sam Altman with

620
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 9: that safety mission that the company was founded on. It

621
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 9: felt like he was a danger to the world through

622
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 9: the development of this technology and went out and found

623
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 9: at their own shop that was supposed to address that problem,

624
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 9: right it was supposed they're supposed to be the safety guys,

625
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 9: and they still hold.

626
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 10: Themselves out that way.

627
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 9: And look, they're two different companies with two different sets

628
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 9: of commitment, and we document ways in which Anthropic does

629
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 9: have a substantive safety focus to this day that is distinct.

630
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 9: But you also really see the shrinking space even for

631
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 9: them to stand by those convictions. You know, where there's

632
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 9: a standoff with the Pentagon and they're trying to ensure

633
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 9: that their technology isn't used for autonomous weapons and mass surveillance,

634
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 9: and you know, they really are.

635
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 10: Just not able to achieve that.

636
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 9: They get forced out of the process and open AI

637
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 9: steps in in their stead essentially, and they suffer a

638
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 9: lot of deleterious business consequences as a result. So there's

639
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 9: just and they've watered down by the way on their

640
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 9: own accord some of their core safety commitments at Onthropics.

641
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 9: So that's point number one that the thing to worry

642
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 9: about is there is a wider race to the bottom

643
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 9: being alleged here that I think is worth a serious,

644
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 9: serious look. The fact that Sam Altman is a particularly

645
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 9: acute example of concerns about untrustworthiness in this business makes

646
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 9: him both a useful window through which to view those

647
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 9: wider concerns and also worthy of specific focus. Right because

648
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 9: open ai is still the market leader. They were, in

649
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 9: many meaningful ways a first mover, and in the view

650
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 9: of a lot of people building this technology, open Ai

651
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 9: has and continues to set the standards in what maybe

652
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 9: in some of those critics view a race to the bottom. So, yes,

653
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 9: Sam Altman is an extreme example, and yes, I think

654
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 9: he deserves particular focus, but also he is integraally tied

655
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 9: to the behavior of these other companies, which affects all

656
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 9: of us a lot.

657
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, no question.

658
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just seeing a story this morning c

659
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: NBC saying that the FED Chairman Jerome Powell and the

660
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary of Scott Besson met with major bank CEOs

661
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: this week to discuss the positible cyber risk raised by

662
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: anthropics mythos model. Maybe I'm saying that wrong, and that

663
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: I mean, these these bank CEOs were brought to Washington

664
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: to talk about this, and they were I guess there

665
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: were concerns about, you know, whether or not the banks

666
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: would be somehow at risk because of this technology, and

667
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean that that.

668
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 2: Made me worried.

669
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: This morning, like, Oh my god, could we have a

670
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: financial crisis because of AI?

671
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 2: I mean that that freaked me out. That's scary thought.

672
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: But there are so many scary thoughts to have that

673
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: you can't just focus on one these days.

674
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 9: But but it's worth that, Jim too, with the fact

675
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 9: that Anthropic in recent weeks has had you know, really

676
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 9: meaningful leaks. I mean, they had a recent like a

677
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 9: full source code leak due to human error, supposedly, But

678
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 9: it just reinforces the point, right that this question that

679
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 9: that colleague of Altman's posed about who should have their

680
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 9: finger on the button, the answer is maybe none of

681
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 9: these guys without meaningful more meaningful than we have now oversight.

682
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 9: You know, these are all fallible individuals, fallible companies with

683
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 9: an acute profit motive that at times, as we document

684
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 9: in the piece, really seems to be superseding their professed

685
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 9: safety commitments. And as you point out, it is a

686
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 9: dizzying number of safety concerns. It's not just the kind

687
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 9: of terminator you know Skynet scenario of an AI gets

688
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 9: super advanced and falls out of alignment with human values

689
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 9: and decides it's most efficient to eliminate humans. There are

690
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 9: credible scientists who think we should be worried about that,

691
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 9: to be clear, but you don't have to buy into that.

692
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 9: You know, there's the things that are happening right now.

693
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 9: It's the way this technology is being used on battlefields.

694
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 9: It's the way in which data centers are being built

695
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 9: in you know, the UAE, a Middle Eastern autocracy, where

696
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 9: there are real national security concerns about UAE leaking technology

697
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 9: to China, and where there are concerns about a dictatorship

698
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 9: seizing control of advanced AI and using it in ways

699
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 9: that are also not aligned with, for instance, American interests.

700
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 9: That there are the economic exposure risks, the millions of

701
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 9: jobs that essentially every credible economic projection now holds will

702
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 9: be eliminated by this technology or at least exposed to

703
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 9: disruption that significant. There's the concerns about an economic bubble

704
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 9: because you have essentially right now, the entire American economy

705
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 9: propped up on a small number of heavily leveraged tech

706
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 9: companies that are going all in on AI and an

707
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 9: array of what economists and critics in our body of

708
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 9: reporting described as circular deals. Right, It's I grat you

709
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 9: are back. You scratch mine. We're getting your money, you're

710
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 9: borrowing money from another partner, we're promising to buy each

711
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 9: other's products. There are grave, grave concerns, and we're not

712
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 9: even getting to you know, the way in which this

713
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 9: is already being deployed for political disinformation to influence elections.

714
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 9: The way in which there are now an array of

715
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 9: wrongful death suits against open AI, alleging that chat GPT

716
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 9: has catalyzed numerous suicides, maybe even a murder. Onne and

717
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 9: on it goes on and on, And I emerged from

718
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 9: the reporting thinking, you know, the Silicon Valley contingent, the

719
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 9: investors who who now sort of pooh pooh the safetiests. Right,

720
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 9: there was a moment when Sam Altman could be fired,

721
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 9: as he was a couple of years ago in the

722
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 9: started reading, for being untrustworthy with with safeguarding humanity from AI,

723
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 9: for lying too much and therefore not being the guy

724
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 9: who should have his finger on the button. That was

725
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 9: the allegation. That moment seems to have passed. You know,

726
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 9: it seems pretty unthinkable that an executive at one of

727
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 9: these companies could be removed for a lack of trustworthiness

728
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 9: in the context of these elevated needs for integrity because

729
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 9: of the dangers of this tech.

730
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 10: It's from business.

731
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 9: As usual, and you know, the business that pervades Silicon

732
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 9: Valley is a lot of hype and a lot of

733
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 9: making conflicting promises to different people in the name of growth.

734
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: So I guess this is the question that I have.

735
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: Is so Sam Altmant a bad guy?

736
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 9: I truly and maybe you know people this hard to believe,

737
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 9: but do not think in those terms.

738
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 10: Story like this.

739
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 9: I don't even think in those terms when I work

740
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 9: on a story.

741
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 2: Is not a great guy. I think that you could

742
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 2: probably that'll be. That's me saying that.

743
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 9: When I'm reporting on someone, even even if you take

744
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 9: an extreme example, you know, someone who is accused of,

745
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 9: like credibly of really serious serial violent crime, and where

746
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 9: I'm working on a story as I have on some

747
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 9: occasions where there's an extra moral imperative because it seems

748
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 9: like people will get hurt in a like very non

749
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 9: abstract way. If it doesn't the facts don't come out.

750
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 9: Even in those cases, I really don't approach a subject

751
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 9: of that kind of reporting in that reductive frame of

752
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 9: like this is a monster, this is a bad guy.

753
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 9: Actually the contrary, I feel like the tougher the criticism

754
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 9: I'm excavating, the more the burden is on me to

755
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 9: be sincerely humanistic. So the process with Sam Altman was

756
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 9: not me concluding he's a bad guy. I was hearing

757
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 9: all these people in Silicon Valley saying he's a bad guy.

758
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 9: And you know, multiple people, some of whom are in

759
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 9: this piece quoted, saying you know, he's a sociopath, he's

760
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 9: a scammer, he's a pathological liar. You know, it was

761
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 9: my job to fairly interrogate those critiques and to line

762
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 9: up the facts so readers could judge for themselves. But

763
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 9: it was also my job to listen deeply to Sam

764
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 9: and find what empathy I could and understanding I could

765
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 9: as deeply as possible.

766
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: Because he kind of he kind of acknowledges there. He

767
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: has some character flaws, which I thought was interesting.

768
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 9: I think to Sam's credit, you know, he did age

769
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 9: a lot. I think the reader can also be the

770
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 9: judge of how sincere that was, or how self reflective

771
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 9: that was. There are moments where you know, you talk

772
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 9: to Sam Altman about where this trait comes from, or

773
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 9: what formed his personality in general, and there is a

774
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 9: little bit of a sort of glib West Coast pop

775
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 9: therapy set of attitudes about it that seemed to not

776
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 9: indicate the kind of deepbracing self confrontation that I think

777
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 9: I would perhaps be doing if so many people around

778
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 9: me were accusing me of being a pathological liar. But

779
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 9: he did spend a lot of time talking about this,

780
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 9: you know, some of it contentious conversations. As you can

781
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 9: imagine in a piece like this, it's heavily pressurized. There's many,

782
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 9: many hours of contentious calls as well. It's not like

783
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 9: a fun process in the end game. But I do

784
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,959
Speaker 9: always appreciate someone who engages like that, and I did

785
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 9: sincerely shape the piece in ways that were maximally generous,

786
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 9: even to him. You know, a big piece like this,

787
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 9: there's a lot of stuff that doesn't make it into

788
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 9: the final cut, and a lot of discretionary editorial decisions.

789
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 9: And there were times where you know, I was really

790
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 9: listening and even if something was true, if Sam made

791
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 9: an argument, I actually think had some merit that something

792
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 9: could be true, but maybe sensationalist, there were times where

793
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 9: I took those things out.

794
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 10: So yeah, quite the contrary to coming to a clear

795
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 10: bad guy conclusion.

796
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 9: But I do think it's worth how many people close

797
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 9: to him and entwined with his work do come to

798
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 9: that conclusion and.

799
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: Firmat and again not to ask the simpleton question, but

800
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask the simpleton question. Are you concerned

801
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: about AI? And does oppose an existential threat? Are we

802
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: there yet? Is it hysterical to think that way that

803
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: we're there now? Or is it the potential that we'll

804
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: be there in five to ten years from now? I mean,

805
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: can AI at this point? I mean, and this may

806
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: be asking more than what you're reporting uncovered, do we

807
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: have a sky and at capability? At this It seems

808
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 1: to me we're not quite there yet, But I mean

809
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: your thoughts well, So.

810
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 9: The timeline question is is one question. And if you

811
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 9: talk to some of the most credible technologists, which Sam

812
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 9: Altman is not right, He's he's a businessman, he's not

813
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 9: deeply involved in the tech.

814
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: There are I use chat GPT and I'll say, hey,

815
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: chat GPT. I almost use it like Google, which maybe

816
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: the gen xer and me perhaps I could be using

817
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: it a bit more imaginatively, but I you know, occasionally

818
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: it doesn't really spit out very useful information or I

819
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: get to the maximum number of times that I can

820
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: use it, and that says, you give us some money

821
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: and we'll tell you more. I just I wonder is

822
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: this technology really there yet. I'm sorry to cut you off.

823
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 9: A number of the technologists that are most trustworthy I

824
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 9: think in the field do say that on the timeline question.

825
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 9: Both Sam Altman's kind of of utopian promises right, because

826
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 9: this is one dimension of the hype machine around AI

827
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 9: and open AI specifically, Sam Altman is out there saying

828
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 9: we're on the verge of and I'm really barely paraphrasing

829
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 9: his own statements and blog posts here curing all forms

830
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,439
Speaker 9: of cancer going to other planets, you know, uh, while

831
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 9: it's going to be like universal basic income for everyone

832
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 9: and people are not gonna have to work anymore. When

833
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 9: you ask him about serious concerns about labor disruption, often

834
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 9: there there's a bit of a handwave of like, well,

835
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 9: you know, chat gupt is going to empower everyone to

836
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 9: make startups and like that's it's all gonna be fine.

837
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 9: And the again credible actual computer scientists that we spoke

838
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 9: to in many cases said those promises where he's saying

839
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 9: we've already you know, reached the event horizon, and this

840
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 9: is all you know, almost underweight. Right as this this

841
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 9: piece was coming out the day that we published this piece,

842
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 9: and open AI knew that it was coming on this day,

843
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 9: they just they launched an array of announcements that were

844
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 9: like directly on the subjects in the piece, you know,

845
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 9: clearly filling space in the conversation with more sort of

846
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 9: utopian promises to counterbalance. So there's credible people who know

847
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 9: the science who say that is way farther out than

848
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 9: Altman is promising. I mean, this is a guy who

849
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 9: we reported the piece, was telling Biden administration officials at

850
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 9: the beginning of that administration. Well, by twenty twenty six,

851
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 9: you know, the entire country is essentially going to be

852
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 9: powered by nuclear fusion and there's going to be you know,

853
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 9: fusion plants all over the country.

854
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 10: And this is the Elon.

855
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 9: Story too, right, It's right, every year for a decade,

856
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 9: it's like, we're going to be on Mars in five minutes.

857
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 9: We're going to have self driving cars that are flawless

858
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 9: and perfect. The technology is much slower than the hype,

859
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 9: and this I think goes for the downsides too. You know,

860
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 9: I don't think that we are AI integrated enough to

861
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 9: be fully exposed to a Skynet scenario. Yet I do

862
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 9: think many of the other risks have already arrived, right,

863
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 9: the political disinformation risks, the economic exposure risks, the economic

864
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 9: bubble risks, the ways in which you know chemical weapons

865
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 9: can be identified much more readily, Like this is all

866
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 9: here now. There's already an instance where it appears that

867
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 9: a drone went rogue and fired without human oversight. This

868
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 9: was documented in a UN report several years ago. So

869
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 9: some of the risks are here. Enough of the risks

870
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 9: are here that I think it is a bustable and

871
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 9: worrying situation that we simultaneously have this political backdrop post

872
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 9: Citizens United, where big tech has taken over Washington right

873
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 9: has flooded politics with money, and if you're running for

874
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 9: office now in this country, or you're running for reelection,

875
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 9: you are contending with the major center of gravity being

876
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 9: Silicon Valley and big tech money and AI money specifically,

877
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 9: now we write about how Sam Altman's co founder and

878
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 9: second in command, Greg Altman, I'm sorry, Greg Brockman, is

879
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 9: a major contributor to a couple of packs that are,

880
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 9: you know, anti regulation pro Trump. So that's that's the pattern.

881
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 9: There's not a lot of strength in the legislative branch

882
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 9: right now to keep an eye and I think the

883
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,919
Speaker 9: point is this is technology that gravely needs an eye

884
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 9: on it.

885
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: Well, Ronan, I mean, you've done an amazing job here

886
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: as always, and you know, I think next maybe you

887
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 1: should be assigned to the betting markets.

888
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 2: Maybe you'll sign yourself to the betting markets.

889
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: Because I think that, Yeah, I mean that if you

890
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: like the tech beat, that's not a bad place to

891
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: turn next. But I mean what you've done here, I

892
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 1: think has gotten the conversation started that we need like

893
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: good people at the top of these companies, or at

894
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: least moderately good people at the top of these companies

895
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: who can be relied upon as as all of this

896
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 1: advances over the next decade. I mean, you can't have

897
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, pathological liars running technologies. I mean, I'm not

898
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: saying that he is, but that's how he's been described.

899
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: That could blow up our economy or blow up you know,

900
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 1: something even more severe than that, but really amazing work.

901
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: And the illust I don't know who does the illustrations.

902
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: We were showing this earlier. This has been blowing my

903
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: mind and looking at this, this is like a thing

904
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: I can't stop looking at.

905
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 2: I have to go back and look at it then,

906
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:36,479
Speaker 2: which is doing wonderful, I'm.

907
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: Sure for your your reporting such a animation internally about the.

908
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 2: Art that was okay, it's great.

909
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 10: Where where you know?

910
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 9: I said, hey, do we really want to go all

911
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 9: in on the irony of AI art for this particular piece?

912
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 9: And is an artist named Dave Zatdter who following and

913
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 9: is a real, you know, legit artist. He's he's multi

914
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 9: disciplinary and he doesn't just work with AI. And in

915
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 9: the end, you know, the group consensus was, no, the

916
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 9: irony really works.

917
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:10,760
Speaker 10: That is explicitly AI.

918
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 9: And actually the revision conversations about the art were all

919
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 9: about can we make sure it is absolutely explicit that

920
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:17,479
Speaker 9: it's AI.

921
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 10: So people, this is just.

922
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 9: Like pulling a fast fund out or replacing an artist

923
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 9: through his starting business.

924
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:26,760
Speaker 10: It was still employing an artist for anyone.

925
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to him too, Ronan, thank you so much,

926
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: really amazing work.

927
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 2: And I hope we can. I hope I haven't annoyed

928
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 2: you so much that you won't do this again.

929
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 9: When you do expose the betting markets anytime. Thank you

930
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 9: for you know, spreading the word. It's a challenging time

931
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 9: for investigative reporting too. There's very few places to provide us.

932
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 9: The same dynamics we talked about with politics also hold.

933
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 10: True for media.

934
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 9: More and less firms are consolidated in the hands of

935
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 9: tech moguls and private companies with their own interests, and

936
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,760
Speaker 9: so I think it's incumbent done all of us. Hopefully

937
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 9: everyone listening, Will you care about directing people to actually, like,

938
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 9: go to the New Yorker dot com to look at

939
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 9: this piece. Subscribe if you believe in this kind of reporting,

940
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 9: subscribe not just to the New Yorker, but wherever you

941
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 9: see this kind of careful accountability journalism happening. You know,

942
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 9: maybe that's pro publica. You know, you decide for yourself. Yes,

943
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,479
Speaker 9: support it directly because we all need to join arms

944
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 9: and make sure we still have access to high quality information.

945
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,800
Speaker 9: And that's to high quality information.

946
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: And that's one of my missions here on this show

947
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: is to elevate as many investigative journalists as possible. So

948
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: anytime I can help, please let me know. And just

949
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 1: incredible job. Thank you so much. Runnin Ferro with The

950
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: New Yorker. Check out the issue and go subscribe. I'm

951
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: going to do it as soon as the show is over.

952
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: That's a promise I'm going to You can have your

953
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 1: people check the records. I'm doing it after the.

954
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 2: Show is over.

955
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: So thank you running. Thanks all right, good to see you, Bud,

956
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. And speaking of technology, and I mentioned

957
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: the space Race, I can't let you go with that.

958
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 1: Looking we cobbled together some of the most amazing pictures

959
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: that NASA has been putting out during the Artemis mission.

960
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: Over the last week or so, I've been on a

961
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: total geek fest geeking out over these pictures of the

962
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: Moon that Artemis has been sending back, and they've just

963
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: been absolutely beautiful. The four astronauts who flew around the

964
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 1: Moon on NASA's Artemis two mission are nearly home this

965
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: according to NBC, but one of the most dangerous and

966
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: nerve wracking parts of the mission is still ahead. Astronauts

967
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: Read Wiseman, Christina Coch, Victor Glover, and the Canadian astronaut

968
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: Jeremy Hanson.

969
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 2: They're set to return.

970
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: They may be on the ground by the time you

971
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: watch this podcast, but if you're seeing it live right now.

972
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: They haven't quite made it home just yet, but the

973
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: images have been stunning. The video inside the capsule has

974
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: been stunning, and they've just done amazing work. The images,

975
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: some of the images of the Moon that they've beamed

976
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: back have just been extraordinary. And people have been talking

977
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: about this non stop, and whether you're on the right

978
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: side of things or left side of things, or the

979
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: pro democracy side. I mean, I don't care if you're

980
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: not on the pro democracy side, but this is really

981
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: kind of a rally around.

982
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 2: The human potential kind of moment.

983
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: And so I just want to take my hat off

984
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: to the Artemis folks. And I'm hoping to have Kristin Fisher,

985
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: the Space Correspondent, on next week to talk about how

986
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: important this has been. But NASA has just hit it

987
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: out of the park on this one with everything that

988
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: they've accomplished, and just godspeed and hoping for a safe

989
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: voyage home to those brave astronauts and some of these

990
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: look at these images of the Moon just absolutely breathtaking.

991
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: And images of the Earth from the other side of

992
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: the Moon have been extraordinary, and you know, these are

993
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 1: actual images sent back by Artemis and so it's it's

994
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: just been amazing to watch, and it just reminds you

995
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: that we are capable of doing great harm to ourselves,

996
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: but we're also capable of doing amazing things. And one

997
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: final thing before I go, if you can just indulge

998
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: me for just a moment, I have to go back

999
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: to maybe uh and again we got to a very

1000
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: lofty point. They're talking about the human potential and the

1001
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: moon there, but we have to go back and talk

1002
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: about Donald Trump, Yes, one last time before we go,

1003
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: one last time, and his truth social posts, lashing out

1004
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: at Megan Kelly and Tucker Carlson and Candace what's her name?

1005
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: Candice Owens and Alex Jones. You know, Trump is going

1006
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: after them because they've been critical of him and the

1007
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: war in Iran and so on, and he calls them

1008
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: low iq and and compares them to you know, the

1009
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: failing New York Times and bake News CNN, and oh my.

1010
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 2: Goodness, they're so bad.

1011
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: They're so you know, he says Megan Kelly, who nastily

1012
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: asked me that now famous only Rosi O'Donnell question or

1013
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: crazy came and Owens, who accuses the highly respected First

1014
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: Lady of France and being a man. I mean, he

1015
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: just goes into the gutter. It's over four hundred words.

1016
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: I mean, this to me is the picture of insanity.

1017
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: This is an image of insanity.

1018
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 2: But my.

1019
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: Question to Tucker Carlson and Megan Kelly and Candae Owens

1020
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: and not Alex Jones, because you know, I mean Alex

1021
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: does what's going on in that head?

1022
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 2: I have no idea.

1023
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: But to the other three, what did you expect? What

1024
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: did you think was going to happen? And I just

1025
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: want to say, I just want to take a moment

1026
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 1: to say I told you so. Tucker Carlson used to

1027
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: come after me when he was over at Fox and

1028
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: accused me of Trump derangement syndrome.

1029
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 2: And Megan Kelly would say, Jim.

1030
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 1: Acosta has TDS, he has Trump derangement syndrome.

1031
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 2: Well, who has the Trump derangement syndrome?

1032
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: Now, Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Candas Owens, Alex Jons.

1033
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 2: Who is suffering from the TDS? Now? All I can

1034
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: say is welcome to the fucking show. Welcome to the party, pals.

1035
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: And you know, when I was talking with Steve Schmid

1036
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: early and he was, you know, telling the story of

1037
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: the frog and the scorpion and the frog is crossing

1038
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: the river and why, you know, asking the scorpion why

1039
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: stung him? And they both drowned, and the scorpion says,

1040
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: it's in my nature. Don't forget Please, don't forget that.

1041
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, from time to time out on the campaign trail,

1042
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: likes to tell the story of the snake.

1043
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 2: He tells the story of the snake.

1044
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 1: It's a xenophobic, racist parable that is that Donald Trump

1045
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: tells to his audience is because he likes to go

1046
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 1: off on immigrants and you know people.

1047
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 2: My family and others.

1048
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: But he likes to talk about how the poor woman

1049
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: who brings the snake home takes care of the snake.

1050
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: The snake is sick and she nurses him back to health.

1051
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: And then the snake.

1052
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: Bites the woman and she dies.

1053
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: And but before she dies, she says, snake, I took

1054
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: care of you, I took you in, I nursed you

1055
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: back to health.

1056
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 2: Why did you bite me?

1057
01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: And as Donald Trump tells, I know the story so

1058
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: well as I've heard it a thousand times, and so

1059
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 1: is my producer Matt who's helming the show. And the

1060
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: snake says to the lady. You knew I was a

1061
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: snake the day you took me in. And I just

1062
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: have to say to Tucker Carlson and Megan Kelly and

1063
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: Candas what is his name? Cannis Owens and Alex Jones,

1064
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: you knew he was a snake the day you took

1065
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: him in.

1066
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 2: You knew he was a snake the day you took

1067
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 2: him in. And maybe they don't care anymore.

1068
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: Maybe they're laughing all the way to the bank, and

1069
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: maybe this is all performative. And next week Megan Kelly

1070
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,439
Speaker 1: will be kissing his ass again, and she probably will,

1071
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 1: She probably will be kissing his ass, and Tucker Carlson

1072
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: will run for president and he'll have Donald Trump out

1073
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: on the campaign trail and they'll all laugh behind the

1074
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 1: scenes as to how they manipulate their audiences and make

1075
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: a lot of money. But if for just a brief moment,

1076
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: right now, any of these goofballs who have been peddling

1077
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's bullshit all these years, if for a moment,

1078
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 1: they they are now looking at themselves in the mirror

1079
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: and saying, why oh why, why oh why did I

1080
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 1: did I take after Donald Trump? Why oh why did

1081
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: I carry his water?

1082
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 2: Why oh, why.

1083
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: Did I become such a Maga Trump supporter that, you know,

1084
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: Serve me up another glass of kool aid. Welcome to

1085
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 1: Jonestown kind of cultist, uh leader deacon in the in the.

1086
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 2: Church of Donald Trump. Why oh why did I do that?

1087
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: And all I have to say is, you knew he

1088
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: was a snake the day you let him in. You

1089
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: knew he was a snake the day you took him in.

1090
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: It's it's amazing how that story of the snake is

1091
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: just coming right back around again and biting Tucker and

1092
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: Megan and Candace and Alex and everybody else in Maga

1093
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 1: right in the ass, right in the old butt cheeks.

1094
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 2: And you know, to me, it's it's it's a.

1095
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: Tale that I've witnessed and watched and reported on time

1096
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 1: and again.

1097
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 2: Michael Cohen, Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, you.

1098
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: Know, Mike Pence, Mike Pence, poor old Mike Pence, carry

1099
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 1: Trump's water for all those years, you know, would go round,

1100
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 1: they'd have those cabinet meetings at the first term, and

1101
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: they'd go around and Mike Pence would just puck her

1102
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,439
Speaker 1: up and smooch Donald Trump's butt and then on January sixth,

1103
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: they're talking about hanging, hanging Mike Pence. And it just

1104
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: goes to show you that Donald Trump has been telling

1105
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 1: you exactly who he is his entire life. He's been

1106
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: telling you exactly who he is since the moment he

1107
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: ran for president. When he tells that story of the steak,

1108
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 1: he's talking about himself. When he tells that story of

1109
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: the steak. Everybody in Maga, every podcaster, everybody in the

1110
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: manisphere who supports Donald Trump. You need to understand Donald

1111
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 1: Trump is telling you exactly who he is. He's telling

1112
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: you the story of the Steak to warn you, to

1113
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: arm you with the information so you understand that he

1114
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: is a snake when you take him in, that he

1115
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: is a snake when you join his cult, that you

1116
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: are taking in a snake. You are letting a snake

1117
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: into your lives, and he will bite you in the end.

1118
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: My thanks to Steve Schmid, My thanks to Ronan Pharaoh.

1119
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: Great story in The New Yorker. Check it out on

1120
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: Sam Altman and the Dangers of Artificial Intelligence. Terrific reporting

1121
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 1: peace in The New Yorker. If you have a chance

1122
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: to subscribe, do that please because it's terrific reporting that

1123
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: they do there. And please, if I may, if I may,

1124
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: ask you to subscribe to this program here at the

1125
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: end of this great week. Anytime you support this program

1126
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: by not just joining the conversation but liking, subscribing, sharing

1127
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: this content, you're helping this program. You're helping guys like me,

1128
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 1: You're helping my team Matt and Sam and Ali can

1129
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,439
Speaker 1: continued to bring this kind of journalism to you each

1130
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: and every day, each and every week, whether you're watching

1131
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: on substack and contributing to the cause, thank you, or

1132
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: on YouTube and contributing to the cause, thank you.

1133
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 2: On Apple podcasts. Some of you have been wondering.

1134
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: Lately, how come the shows haven't been showing up on

1135
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: Apple podcast I think we've figured that out and you

1136
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: can listen to it there as well. But anytime you

1137
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: support this program, it means the world to me, and

1138
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 1: it means the world to our entire team.

1139
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 2: So thank you for those of you who are doing it.

1140
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:28,439
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1141
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, still reporting, this time from the

1142
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: lovely town of Charlotte, Svill, Virginia.

1143
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 2: I'm Jim Accoste Elsie. Next time.

1144
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 8: Book Boo boo boom to people book book,