WEBVTT - Frances Perkins: Influential and Unknown 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.559 Hey, everybody. I don't know if you've heard, but we 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:07.040 have a book coming out finally, finally, after all these years. 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:10.120 It's great, it's fun. You're gonna love it. It's called 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:14.600 Stuff You Should Know Colon, an incomplete compendium of mostly 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:19.960 interesting things, and it's twenty six jam packed chapters that 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.120 we wrote with another guy named Knows Parker, who's amazing 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:28.240 and is illustrated amazingly by our illustrator, Carl Manardo. And 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.000 it's just an all around joy to pick up and read. 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.400 Even though we haven't physically held in our hands yet, 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.800 it's like we have Chuck in our dreams so far. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:38.839 I can't wait to actually see and hold this thing 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.880 and smell it. And so should you, so pre order now. 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:44.440 It means a lot to us. The support is a 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.360 very big deal, So pre order anywhere books are sold. 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.199 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:59.520 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, And welcome to the 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.040 podcast Time Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.280 and this is Stuff you Should Know. The amazing Unsong 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:12.959 Woman Edition volume to at least more than two What 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:15.240 number would you say then? I don't know, but I'll 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.959 tell you what if you want to take a vote 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.200 on maybe one of the most undersung while at the 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:27.160 same time being most influential Americans to ever live, Neil Diamond. 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.759 He was very sung. I know, I'm not a big fan. Anyway, 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:39.200 you would be hard pressed to overlook ms Perkins. Yeah, 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.000 miss Francis Perkins totally agree. Had never heard her name before, 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:45.800 had never even known she existed. But yeah, the more 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.000 you dig into, the more you just like, it was 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.680 almost a crime that this this woman was virtually written 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.680 out of the history books. Yeah. And if you are 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.040 one of those people who was unfortunate to not be 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.760 able to work right now during quarantine and the effects 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:07.480 of COVID nineteen and you are um, not lucky enough, 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:12.280 but uh, you know, deservedly enough receiving unemployment insurance, you 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.720 can thank Francis Perkins for that. That's right. And every 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:20.639 single person who's getting check as easily as they've gotten 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:25.919 lately is getting one because of this system that Francis 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.639 Perkins set up. And what's really I think worth noting too, 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:35.680 is this, this is exactly the kind of situation that 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.760 she got this past four that she helped design this 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.360 for because there's a quote. I can't remember exactly where 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.560 the quote was, but to paraphrase it, it's basically like, 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.760 we need to we need to always keep our eye 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.960 on the long term and playing for the worst case scenario. 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.320 While yes, there's a lot of immediate needs that we need, 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.440 but there's always going to be something that comes down 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.400 the road, and we have planned for it. We're way 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.800 better off. Just imagine how disasters it would be on 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:09.000 top of the current disaster if there wasn't such a 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.800 thing as unemployment insurance and this is how we found 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.799 out that we really kind of needed. Yeah, it would 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.040 be dark ages stuff in this country. Yeah. So if 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.280 you have gotten your unemployment insurance check and it has 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:25.840 helped you, thank Francis Perkins somehow. Yeah, And we want 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.000 to thank how stuff works. That's where part of this 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.120 research come came from. And some other places, but notably 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:33.920 And I don't want to shout this out because this 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:38.000 is a library intern at the FDR Library who wrote 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.960 a paper called Honoring the Achievements of FDR Secretary of 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:45.400 Labor Jessica Brightman. This is really good stuff and and 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.280 she's a library intern, and we want to shout her out. Yeah, 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.360 she did great, or she was at the time. I 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.160 imagined she's moved on from that internship after after she 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.760 turned that essay in you bet your Pippy she did so. 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:04.320 Francis Perkins was born uh Fanny Corala Perkins in Boston 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:10.480 in eight but her relatives in her ancestors came from Maine. 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:13.040 And it's kind of funny here at the beginning of 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.920 this how stuff works thing, it says she's so understung 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.520 the even residence of her hometown of Damera Scotta, Maine, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.560 didn't seem familiar with her legacy. I think that says 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.440 more about Maine, right, They're like, oh, we don't need 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.280 to help her put on airs. Well, then, just like 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.680 you know, I don't ask, I don't tell, I just don't. 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.159 Whatever what she lives here, great good for her, I 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.159 want to say. Also, before the residents of Newcastle bust 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:42.440 a vein in their forehead, she's also cited as um 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:47.560 a native of Newcastle, Maine. They're right across the demarro 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:52.200 Scotta River from one another. I think she's from Newcastle. 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:56.680 So is this like an Adidas Puma thing? Maybe? Maybe, 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:00.480 except to imagine if neither town knew what us were 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:09.200 that would be for the accurate analogy. Oh boy, so 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.000 she uh yeah, she was. She came from really like 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:16.640 died in the wool Yankee stock. Um. Her family came 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.719 over I think in the sixteen eighties. Her um she 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.359 had like her family had built an outpost during the 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.880 French Indian War. Her grandmother, who had more of an 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.600 influence on her, she said than anybody, had a cousin 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:36.240 who she was close to, UM who founded Howard University 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:41.839 and fought for the rights of newly freed African Americans. Um. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:43.920 She came from like a long line of people who 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.240 like cared about other people. And yet UM. Surprisingly her 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.680 parents were very conservative. They were in favor of, you know, 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.600 helping the poor, but not mingling with them, helping them, 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.040 like helping them by like you know, sending some money 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.280 or something like that. At UM and they produced a child, 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.680 Fanny Francis. She changed her name, I thinking I don't 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:12.680 know her twenties or thirties. Um, she she was the 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.599 opposite way. She was like, no, like, like, people are people, 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:18.400 and they all deserve help, and there's a lot of 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.960 injustice in this world, and I want to change it 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.760 myself and she's one of those people who actually did 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:30.279 enact tremendous change for all the right reasons. Yeah, she said, 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.479 people are people, so why should it be you and 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:38.800 I should get along so awfully? Which one was that? Mode? 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.240 Depeche Mode? I can't, baby, Hey, that's Emily's jam. I 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.320 mean she would. She probably has that tattooed on her 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:49.279 body somewhere. Uh. In fact, we're both that none of 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.000 my business. We're both doing that that silly and I 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.000 never do these things on Facebook. But a time now 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.760 the top ten most influential albums, and I was like, 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.320 which one? Are you gonna pick? A New Order or 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.400 Depeche Mode for her? Because that's a that's a tough one. Well, 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.039 I mean can't. She's got tend to choose from right. Yeah, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.680 but I think for her those two are so inextricably 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:13.040 tied that it was one or the other. I got you, 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:14.920 and she went with Depeche Mode because they were first 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:19.200 and thus probably more influential. Depeche Mode is before New Order. 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.040 Huh yes, I mean technically, if you count New Order 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:27.040 as an out outcropping of Joy Division, then they were first. 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.480 Oh so well, Joy Division was different, though it was 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.600 pretty different, different enough that they might as well be 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.760 two different bands, which they were. You know who we 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.520 need to to give us the judgment call is Francis Perkins, 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.520 who who apparently would not have enjoyed our banter. She 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.960 was very much known as like a dour, serious woman. 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.840 But from what I can tell, that's actually a public 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:56.640 persona that she wore to get men to take her seriously. Yeah, well, 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.400 who can blame her because we'll see later on out her. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.520 It's no accident that she's lost to history in many ways. 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:08.240 But what she was also was highly educated. Um. She 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:12.440 graduated from Mount Holyoke in nineteen o two, where she 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.520 majored in chemistry in physics. Even though she made her 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.760 name in economics, which is means she was a very 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.240 well rounded human and had a very large brain. And 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.640 apparently she had made it all the way through college 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.080 and UM. In her senior year, I think she attended 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.920 an economics lecture by Florence Kelly, who was a huge 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:38.680 um wage justice crusader UM and that just changed her life. 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.360 Yeah big time. Uh. In nineteen this is post college, 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.840 she went to Philly and she became general secretary of 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:50.200 the Philadelphia Research and pro Protective Association. What did she 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:55.200 do there, Well, she was in charge of investigating uh 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.720 employment agencies that were fake and that prayed on women, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.560 immigrant women's specifically, and she had to sort of deal 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.960 with the dregs of society and that job and did 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.080 so very successfully, and then decided she wanted to keep 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.400 her education going. So while she was in Philly, she 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.120 went to the Wharton School of Finance and Commerce at 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:20.160 the University of Pennsylvania because that's super easy in light learning, 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.720 uh And then after that she went to Columbia where 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.680 she earned uh m A and social economics in nineteen ten. 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.040 And we should say, like, she's getting all of this schooling, 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.800 but at the same time, she's also set herself off 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.439 on a m what's that like, learned while you work 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:43.920 program called internship? I guess, so that's not exactly what 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:45.600 I'm looking for, but yeah, I mean it makes sense. 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.360 So she set herself up on a real world internship program. 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.560 So while she wasn't Philly working for that that bureau, 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:56.640 she was investigating those those fake employment rackets. Like she 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.920 was on the ground doing this stuff, like carrying out 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:07.240 these inspections, UM, investigating factories, like taking notes in like yeah, basically, yeah, 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.200 while she's studying this stuff, she's also out doing and 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.480 seeing the stuff firsthand that she's learning about, which from 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.320 what I can tell, she really kind of digested and 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.520 held onto and it just kept driving her for the 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.040 rest of her life. What she saw. I think that's 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.440 called the School of Hard Knocks. It is, but she 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.000 enrolled in the Wharton School and the School of Hard 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.880 Knocks at the same time, which is pretty impressive, that's right. 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:33.760 And after Columbia, after she got that masters, for two 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.920 years she served as executive secretary of the Consumers League 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:41.080 of New York And this is where she really felt 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:46.200 her life calling to improve wages, improved working to conditions 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:52.040 because this was nineteen ten through nineteen twelve and things 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.440 weren't great in factories at the time. We could do 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.640 a podcast on I don't know what the focus would be, 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:04.880 neces sarily because we've done labor unions, but just labor conditions. Yeah, 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.520 maybe so I opening, But there's she did. She This 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:10.880 is one of the things she did. There's very few, 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:16.120 uh more depressing words than these strong together. She improved 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:21.200 working conditions for children. That was one of the things 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.120 she did, and that was at the Consumers League of 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.560 New York. And she got there and was like, yes, 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.280 I've I've achieved my one of my first goals, which 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.240 is working directly with the same Florence Kelly who gave 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:37.319 the economics lecture that changed her life years before Mount Holyoke. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.480 That's right. Yeah, so she was one of those ones 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.120 who said I want to do this, and then would 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.920 do it and then would move on to the next thing. Yeah, 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.000 she wouldn't stand around and wait for the statue to 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.880 be built in her honor. Exactly, yeah, exactly. So we 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.360 take a break. Uh, yes, all right, We're gonna take 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.679 a break and talk about a pretty devastating fire in 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.680 New York City that changed the course of her life 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:25.120 right after this What fire, Chuck, I'm talking about the 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:30.400 Triangle shirtwaist fire. Uh in Manhattan, sort of near Washington 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.079 Square Park in green It's right next to Washington Square 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.040 Park in Greenwich Village. I think it's an n y 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.600 U building now it is, And I tried to pinpoint 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.360 if that was the building where I actually had my 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.760 film classes. Was it? I don't know, I can't quite tell. 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.600 We gotta no, Chuck, I'll see if I can find out. 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.920 But a shirt waist was a woman's blouse, is what 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.160 they called it at the time. And this was a 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:58.040 factory that made women's blouses. If you worked there, you 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:02.079 were probably a young woman. Uh, you might be an immigrant. 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.360 You would work about fifty two hours a week. Oh 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.240 I saw twelve hours a day, seven days a week. 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.839 What does that math turn out to, Let's see seventy 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:19.440 seven hundred and twenty Uh wait, I can't do math. Well, 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.760 let's say between fifty two and eighty hours a week. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.679 You know it was way more than that, twelve times 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:28.560 seven eighty four. Yeah, that's what I said, eighty four 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.800 hours a week. But like, even that doesn't sound that big. 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:35.880 Twelve hour days, seven days a week, just to keep 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:40.240 your job, right, So I saw fifty two either way. Uh, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.959 they made between seven and twelve dollars a week. Uh, 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.280 making these blouses for women, which was not good even 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.720 back then. Yeah, it wasn't good. And because this was 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.679 a factory in New York in nineteen eleven, Uh, they 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.480 had the doors locked, they had the staircases locked. They 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.720 thought it prevented theft if you were umber. What happened 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.880 to locked doors and stairwells. In our Hotel Fire episode, 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.240 the same thing happened here on March nineteen eleven when 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:13.240 the triangle shirt waist fire started because they think of 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.000 a of a matt a cigarette but thrown into a 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:20.000 waist bin and it just, you know, everything in there 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.160 was flammable. Practically that wasn't metal because of all these 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:27.120 fabrics like highly flammable. It went up really quick. It's 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.880 one of the deadliest US workplace disasters of all time 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:34.760 to this day. UH. Four hundred and forty six workers died, 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.200 a hundred and twenty three of which were women, UH 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:42.120 and girls between the ages of UH, generally between fourteen 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:43.920 and twenty three. The oldest was forty three, but that 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.440 was kind of an outlier. And sixty two of those 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.680 people jumped to their death in front of full view 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:56.400 of New York City, including UH Francis Perkins. Right in 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.480 front of Francis Perkins. She didn't jump to her death, 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.640 no, no no, no, so she Yeah, she's literally witnessing one 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.760 of the turning points in history as it happens seeing women, 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.320 teenage girls jump out of the ninth floor of this 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:13.560 building because it's on fire. And not only is she 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.360 witnessing a fire that will change history. She is one 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:21.120 of the people that will force history to change because 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:26.200 of this fire. The the the fate or the destiny 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.760 that that put her a block away from this fire 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:33.800 when it happened is it's just astounding to me that 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:35.760 she was there, because she went on to be one 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.600 of the people who said this is never going to 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.800 happen again, and under her watch, it basically didn't. It 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.480 was the worst that it ever got and it never 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:49.440 got that bad again because of the um the safeguards 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.360 she forced the state and then later on other states 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.280 and the federal government to adopt. Yeah. I mean she 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.720 was already kind of headed down this road anyway. She 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.280 was already part of the Knee Ork State Factory Investigating Commission, 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.280 and because of this fire, which she I don't think 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.480 we said, she was just having team across the park there, 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.280 ran over and saw this. Uh. One of the things 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.160 she saw that at one point there were twenty people 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.920 that had managed to get out a window onto a 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.760 fire escape, one of those tiny, little flimsy New York 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.600 fire escapes, and that all twenty of those people, uh, 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.000 the thing collapsed and they all felt to their hundred 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.520 feet to their death right in front of her face. Yeah, 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.600 we need to do an entire episode on that, at 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.200 the very least just to to shame the two owners, 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:39.680 who's who were just totally responsible for all those deaths. Yeah. Absolutely, Um, 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:41.200 but this was sort of just the way it was, 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.960 I mean, not absolving them. But she saw this as 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.400 part of the bigger problem, not like these two owners 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.720 are responsible, but she was like, it was an indictment 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.600 of the system. Yeah, it was. But at the same time, 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:58.000 those guys were particularly nasty examst for the system. They weren't. 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.560 They weren't average by any mean from what I understand. No, 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.000 but what was average was the fact that they didn't 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.560 have fire codes. And she's the person that brought that in. 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.199 By the time she was in her early thirties, she 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.760 had called for and successfully called for exit signs, UM 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:20.320 occupancy limits, sprinklers, fire escapes, UM, unlocked doors and stairwells, 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.280 how wide the doorways had to be depending on your 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.760 factory floor, like all these sort of common sense things, 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.080 Like a lot of people saw this stuff happen and 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.960 and and saw this incident that day and were horrified. 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.440 But Francis Perkins said, Nope, I'm gonna change it. I'm 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:40.360 a woman in nineteen eleven and I'm in my early thirties, 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.840 but I'm gonna make this happen. And she did. She 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.720 did um. She was appointed to the New York Committee 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.280 on Safety under the recommendation of Teddy Roosevelt, which says 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.240 a lot because that means she had already made a 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.640 name for herself in her twenties in New York City politics, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.480 to to the point where Teddy Roosevelt would say, like, 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.119 you really kind of need this woman on there. And 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.440 then let's not forget the fact that he the operative 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.760 word here was woman as far as society was concerned 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.880 at the time. And this, this legislation that she got 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.520 passed through in New York, or that she helped get 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.800 passed through New York, like I was saying, it became 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.359 a model for other states and then eventually the federal 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:22.679 fire codes um because of this, because of largely because 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.760 of her efforts, and she she made a name for herself. 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:27.199 She had already made a name for herself, but this 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:29.720 really kind of helps cement her name. And she started 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.240 working closely with a guy named alfredy Smith who was 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:38.240 an assemblyman from New York, right, but um he uh, 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.920 she won his respect um pretty easily. I think they 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:46.720 worked on this um New York Committee on Safety together. Um. 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.600 And so when he became governor, she kind of um 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.280 rose along with him. She was appointed by him to 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.359 New York States Industrial Commission, which made her the first 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.879 woman to be appointed to a state government position in 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.440 the country. And with her eight thousand dollar salary, she 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.439 was the highest paid woman to hold any office in 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.560 the United States at the time. So she became important 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.400 pretty quick. But she became important everybody. This is really 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:17.480 important to remember by hard work and heart, which is 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.359 a just a wonderful combination, Like amazing things happened in 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:26.360 from people who have that combination. Yeah, and she um. 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:31.359 She ingratiated herself to these male politicians a couple of 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.840 different important times in her life. And the first one 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.760 was alfredy Smith, like you were saying, so she rose 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.439 along with him because he knew he was like, man, 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.040 i don't care if she's a woman or not. She 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.440 works harder than anyone I know, and she gets the 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.240 job done. So I'm just gonna bring her along with 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.760 me and not just not just works harder. She was 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.679 known as a policy expert about workers safety and um 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.720 wage justice by this time too. Well, yeah, I mean 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:03.280 I talked about her very large brain. In her higher education, 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.600 she was super super smart, like it said, she majored 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.520 in chemistry and physics, even though her real love was econ. 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.240 So it's like, are you kidding me? No, we're not 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:17.000 kidding at all. So um So, like you were saying, 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.040 she first kind of rose to prominence with Alfred E. Smith, who, 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.600 from what I could tell, I didn't get to research 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.240 him very much, but the stuff that I ran across, 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.679 the references to him, he seemed like a genuine, like 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:33.200 true believer crusader in justice social justice as well. Um 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.600 So they were like a good a good pair. Um. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.359 And he made it as far as New York governor. 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:42.040 He ran for president uh and didn't win. Uh. And 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.360 when he didn't win, he, I guess lost the governorship 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:50.720 and was succeeded by Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And so Roosevelt 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.000 came in came into power in New York as the 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.919 governor of New York uh. And Francis Perkins was already 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.880 there and had already built up a reputation, and Roosevelt 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:04.359 recognized the kind of person she was pretty quickly, because 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.120 a lot of people are you know, you can give 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.399 a lot of credit or a lot of vilification to 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.720 Roosevelt for his New Deal policies, depending on your political stripes. 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.959 But if you, you know, if you admire him for it, 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:21.439 and I think most people should. He Um, it wasn't 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:26.120 just him. One of his great talents was to recognize 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.000 talent in others and to bring those people together and 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:34.080 then enact policies based on their expertise and their recommendations. 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.120 And one of those people was Francis Perkins, starting when 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.439 he was Governor of New York and then also when 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:43.280 he became president too. Yeah. So when he came into 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.520 his governorship, she had already been named and was the 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:50.800 chairperson called it a chairman back then in six of 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.120 the State Industrial Board. Um. She was doing a great 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.680 job there. And then in nine FDR appointed her as 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:01.399 the Industrial Commissioner of the State of New York. And 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.680 what happens. The stock market crashes, the Great Depression hits 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:10.959 America like a punch in the face, and she was 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.760 the one who stepped in and got in his ear 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.639 and said, you know what, like I know that we 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:18.800 have to to feed people right now, we have really 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.760 immediate needs. But like you mentioned earlier in the episode, 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.160 she thought about the the big picture and long term goals. 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:29.000 She said, we need to really take swift action here. 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.960 So with her help, they created a committee unemployment. He 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.879 appointed her the head of that, and then when he 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.840 was elected president in nine he said, you know what, 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:42.159 I'm gonna point you to be my Secretary of Labor 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:45.719 that I've been working with you for twenty years, I 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.080 trust you, and you're gonna do a great job. And 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:52.160 the public roundly said, what a woman in the cabinet, 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.000 they really did, I mean, like she she was the 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:59.440 first cabinet, first woman to serve as a cabinet member. 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:02.000 I mean women had just gotten the right to vote 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:06.040 about thirteen twelve or thirteen years before, so you just 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:10.040 didn't vote until she was forty, I know. And yet 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:14.040 she held public public appointed offices and still couldn't vote, 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:17.919 but wasn't allowed to vote for her boss, right exactly. Yeah, 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:22.080 So it was a really big deal that FDR appointed 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.879 a woman as a to a cabinet position, and an 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:28.879 important cabinet position too. I mean, like, it's not like 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:33.320 there's any necessarily unimportant cabinet positions, but Secretary of Labor 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:39.080 is pretty big, especially yeah, especially then, right, and especially um. 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:42.120 You know, at a time when this this emerging superpower 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:44.600 too took a huge punch in the face and got 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:46.240 knocked on its But like the rest of the world 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:48.920 by the Great Depression, this was important stuff that they 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:51.639 were trying to figure out on the fly. But he 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.480 he chose a really, really great person, Um who wasn't 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:57.960 really accepted at first, not just by the public but 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:01.320 by virtually anybody of the labor unions weren't happy she 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:03.720 was there because she had a background in social work 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:09.399 and policy, yes, but she eventually won him over just 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:12.400