1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: So dealing with children who get wrongfully convicted for something 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: like I think about all the things that I did 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: as a kid, you know, not knowing believing the adults. 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to be part of the cool crowd, 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: so to speak, right, I think we all want to 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 2: teach our kids, and I know I've tried to teach 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: my kids the best I could to stay out of 8 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 2: those situations and call me and no matter where you are, 9 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 2: what you did to get yourself in that situation or 10 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: what's happening, I come, I get you, no questions, ask 11 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 2: and that. 12 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: But that, actually, you know, is a great point because 13 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: your children, they come from a place of privilege where 14 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: they have a family. I mean, in certain cases, we're 15 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: talking about somebody who didn't have a family and was 16 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: just seeking affection and love from the first person they found. 17 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 3: And I said, no, I'm not going to testify against him. 18 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 4: I love him. He's my boyfriend, he loves me. 19 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 3: And so the DA basically said, well, if you don't 20 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: want to be as victim, you could be as co defended. 21 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 3: And they charged him and meet both with. 22 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 5: Murder from lava for good. This is wrongful conviction with 23 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 5: Maggie Freeling today Alicia Burns. In August of two thousand 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 5: and two, fifteen year old Alicia Burns was swimming at 25 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 5: a lake in Ohio when a man named Stephen Kasmeric 26 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 5: approached her. He told her he was twenty one, and 27 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 5: the duo quickly formed an intimate relationship. They decided to 28 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 5: steal Alicia's foster mother's car and run off together to 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:51,639 Speaker 5: Las Vegas. However, this whirlwind romance was anything but Alicia 30 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 5: didn't know that Kasmeric was actually thirty two and a 31 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 5: convicted sex offender. Very quickly during their trip, Kasmeric began 32 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 5: to force Alicia into selling her body for money, and 33 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 5: he was getting increasingly violent with Alicia if she refused. 34 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 5: This continued once they got to Vegas. One day in 35 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 5: September two thousand and two, Kasmeric made one of these 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 5: deals with a man named Pedro via Real. Alicia expected 37 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 5: this time to be like all the others. She was 38 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 5: to have sexual contact with this man and he would 39 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 5: pay Chasmeric, But unbeknownst to Alicia, Kasmeric had a plan 40 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 5: to forcibly rob the man. When the robbery went horribly wrong, 41 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 5: the man, Pedro vile Real, wound of dead. Kasmeric and 42 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 5: Alicia were eventually charged with his murder, but Alicia says 43 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 5: she did not kill mister Viorel and that she too 44 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 5: was a victim. 45 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: I was a foster child and I was trafficked when 46 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 3: I was fifteen. My trafficker forced me to participate in 47 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: a robbery that resulted in a death, and as a 48 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 3: result of that, they made me his co defendant charge. 49 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 3: My name is Alicia Burns. They gave me tend to 50 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 3: life in prison. I served a total of sixteen years. 51 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 5: Alicia Burns was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, on March sixth, 52 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 5: nineteen eighty seven. From a young age, her life with 53 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 5: her birth family was difficult. 54 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 3: My biological mother was a drug addict in abusive relationships, 55 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: and the state took me and my siblings from my mother, 56 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,839 Speaker 3: and at three, I got adopted by a family who 57 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 3: couldn't have children. 58 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 5: But Alicia struggled in her new family. She wanted to 59 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 5: find her biological mother and ended up running away from home. 60 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 5: Her adoptive parents eventually put her up for adoption again, 61 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 5: and at age eleven, Alicia wound up in the foster 62 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 5: care system. Her experience was not great. 63 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 3: Most people who are preen and teenage in foster care 64 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 3: in Durre abuse in all kinds of forms, whether it's 65 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 3: sexual or physical, or emotional or mental, and that's something 66 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 3: that's very prominent in the foster care system Sadly, I 67 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: spent a lot of time running away. 68 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 4: From foster homes. 69 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 3: I went through thirty six different placements between the ages 70 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 3: of eleven and fifteen, so I was booted around a 71 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 3: lot and just kind of did the foster care system 72 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: thing before I ended up in prison. 73 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 5: In two thousand and two, Alicia, now a teenager, was 74 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 5: longing for something more. One day in August, she was 75 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 5: at a lake with one of her foster parents when 76 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 5: a man approached her. 77 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 3: He came up to me and started talking to me, 78 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 3: and I liked the attention. I told him I was eighteen, 79 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 3: and he told me he was twenty one. 80 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 5: They were both lying. Alicia was just fifteen and the man, 81 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 5: Stephen kas Mehrick, was actually thirty two, but Alicia didn't 82 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 5: know or really care. 83 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 3: I think, you know, above and beyond all logic, I 84 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 3: yearned for attention and love so much that nothing else mattered. 85 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 4: I guess. 86 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 5: She quickly started to build a relationship with Kasmeric and 87 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 5: eventually he convinced her to leave Ohio and run away 88 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 5: with him to Las Vegas to get married. 89 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 3: I fully believed this man was my boyfriend and that 90 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 3: he loved me, that he was the only person in 91 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 3: the world that loved me and cared about me, because 92 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 3: that's that's what he convinced me of. That's what he 93 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 3: made me believe. We're gonna spend our lives together and 94 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: now I'm going to take care of you and you 95 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: never have to be in a foster home again. And 96 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: of course that was a fantastical notion to a fifteen 97 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 3: year old foster child with you know, obvious trust issues 98 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 3: and abandonment issues. 99 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 5: It felt like a whirlwind romance to Alicia. But then 100 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 5: things took a turn. 101 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 102 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 4: It started on the way to Vegas. 103 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 3: So we had stolen my foster brother's car and some 104 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 3: money from her, and. 105 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 4: I don't think we even like made it out of 106 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 4: the Midwest. 107 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: We had stopped at a motel and he was like, Hey, 108 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 3: we're kind of getting low on cash. You know, there's 109 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 3: this guy. He's you know, a couple of doors down 110 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: and he just wants to touch you. He's not going 111 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 3: to touch you under your clothes. He just wants to 112 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 3: touch you, like above your clothes, and he's going to 113 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: give us some money for it. And I'm going to 114 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 3: be right there the whole time, and I'm going to 115 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 3: make sure nothing happens. And you know, you can help 116 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 3: us right now, because. 117 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 5: Mark convinced Alicia that she had to do this to 118 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 5: financially contribute to their relationship. 119 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 4: And so I let it happen. 120 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 3: And then the next time we were at another hotel 121 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 3: and it was you know, this person just wants to 122 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 3: touch you under your clothes, but just for a second. 123 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 3: And then the next time it was a blow job, 124 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 3: and then it just it just really progressed from there. 125 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 4: And by the time that. 126 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: I told him no that I didn't want to, he 127 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: hit me hard on the side of my face. He 128 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 3: hit me hard enough that my ear was ringing, and 129 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 3: hard enough that it scared me to not want to 130 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 3: tell him no again. 131 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 5: Wow, what were you thinking when that happened. 132 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: I was thinking how much I had messed up because 133 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: he was yelling at me and he was telling me, 134 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 3: you know, by then, we were in Las Vegas, and 135 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: so he was telling me, like, you know, you're out here, 136 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: you don't know anybody out here, if you know, if 137 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 3: I leave you, you know, these other people are going to 138 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: get you, and they're going to treat you a lot 139 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 3: worse than I do, you know, And I. 140 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 4: Was scared. 141 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 5: Alicia was trapped. 142 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 3: It seemed like a way to receive his praise, to 143 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 3: make him happy, because he was happy that I did 144 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 3: what he wanted me to do, and I was happy 145 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 3: that now I could get a burger from McDonald's or. 146 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 6: A hotel room for the night so that I wasn't 147 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 6: sleeping outside. 148 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 5: She didn't realize what was really happening, that Cosmeric was 149 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 5: trafficking her for sex. 150 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 3: I guess it's like similar to any like abusive or 151 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 3: domestic violence type of situation. It flip flops, you know, 152 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 3: there's those really bad times and then it's like made 153 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 3: up for with this over abundance of I appreciate you, 154 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 3: I adore you, I love you, you know, and so 155 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 3: it's it's really it's a it's a manipulative tactic, you know, 156 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 3: And that's that's what I went through with my trafficker. 157 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 5: But she was also still just a kid, and she 158 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 5: believed Casmeric loved her, and so they eventually reached their destination, 159 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 5: Las Vegas. Let's go to September twenty fifth, two thousand 160 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 5: and two. Okay, so tell me about the day. How 161 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 5: did it start. 162 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 3: We were walking around on Fremont Street, and my trafficker 163 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: had met like some guy out there that was also 164 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 3: from Chicago, where my trafficker was from, and so they 165 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 3: were talking and hanging out and laughing, and Alicia. 166 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 5: Says, she wandered away and a man approached her, asking 167 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 5: if he could buy her a drink. She said, all 168 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 5: she wanted was a soda from McDonald's. 169 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 3: And so we, uh, we walked into the McDonald so 170 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 3: he could buy me a sprite, and he offered me 171 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 3: money for sex. 172 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 5: Alicia told Kasmerik, who saw an opportunity. He and the 173 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 5: man agreed on a price, and they decided to go 174 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 5: back to his apartment. Kas Marek brought along a friend 175 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 5: who to this day is only known as Tommy. 176 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 3: When we got there, they turned on some music and 177 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 3: they were drinking beers and we were sitting there and 178 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 3: the gentleman was sitting next to me on the bed 179 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 3: and he kept like rubbing on my legs and things 180 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 3: like that, and touching my back, and I was getting uncomfortable, 181 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 3: so I, you know, said I had to use the restroom. 182 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 3: So I got up and I went to the restroom 183 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 3: and I came back out and back down, and then 184 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 3: my trafficker said that he had to use the restroom 185 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 3: as well. And when he got to the bathroom door, 186 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 3: he was like, whoa dude, your your mirror is broken 187 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 3: in the bathroom. 188 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,479 Speaker 4: And the gentleman was like, what. 189 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 3: What do you what do you mean my mirror is broken? 190 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 3: And so he got up to go look into the 191 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 3: bathroom and when he peeked his head like around the 192 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 3: corner to the bathroom, my trafficker grabbed him from behind 193 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 3: and started choking him. So I was standing there scared 194 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 3: and shocked, and. 195 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 4: I didn't try to stop it. I didn't. 196 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 3: I didn't, I don't, but I remember just standing there 197 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 3: like what the hell is going on? 198 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 5: Alicia had no idea that Kasmeric planned to hurt anyone, 199 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 5: but a long struggle ensued and then the man lost consciousness. 200 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 5: Kazmik told Alicia and taught me to go grab extension 201 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 5: cords to tie him up. By now, Alicia knew better 202 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 5: than to disobey Kasmeric. 203 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 4: So I did. 204 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 3: I cut the cord off the back of this small 205 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 3: like box fan and I handed it to him and 206 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 3: then he was like, okay, we need to look around 207 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 3: for any valuables. 208 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 5: Kazmerk told them to bag up the valuables so they 209 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 5: could pawn them. And then the man started to wake up, 210 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 5: so kas Merek quickly shifted orders. 211 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 3: And he was like, well, just do what I did, 212 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 3: Just you know, put your arm around his neck like 213 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 3: I did, until he passes out again. 214 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 4: And I weighed eighty. 215 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 3: Nine pounds at the time, so that thing I did 216 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 3: physically was going to make a difference for this this 217 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 3: adult man who's closer, you know, around two hundred pounds. 218 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 3: And that's when my trafficker came over and choked him 219 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 3: unconscious himself, you know, and he was like, just just 220 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 3: forget it, just forget it. Just start wiping things down, 221 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 3: you know, wipe all of our fingerprints, wipe everything. And 222 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 3: he said that the friend had to help him carry 223 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 3: him into the bathroom and put him in the bathtub. 224 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 4: And I remember at one point. 225 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 3: I heard noises in the bathroom and my trafficker was saying, 226 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 3: you know, shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up. 227 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 3: And I looked in there and he was punching him 228 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 3: like inside the bathtub and telling him to shut up, 229 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 3: and he looked over and saw me, and he said, Alicia, 230 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 3: don't look. 231 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 4: Don't look, and he pushed the door closed. 232 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 5: Causmeric then ordered Alicia and Tommy to clean up the 233 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 5: apartment and continue to wipe everything down to not leave 234 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 5: any fingerprints. 235 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 3: Because when we leave, I'm going to open the window 236 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 3: here so that people not the window itself, but like 237 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 3: the blinds or curtains or whatever it was. 238 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 4: He says, I'm going to open. 239 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 3: This so in case people walk by, it looks normal 240 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 3: in here. 241 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 5: After they left, Casmeric pawned the items they stole. Alicia 242 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 5: says that when they left, the man in the bathtub 243 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 5: was still alive. About a week later, she says, Kasmeric 244 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 5: was back to trying to solicit Alicia's body for money, 245 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 5: this time at the Stardust Casino. 246 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 3: I got stopped by security because I was very clearly underage, 247 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 3: and he came over while security was talking to me 248 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: to kind of try to, I guess, try to talk 249 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 3: us out of it or something, and security's took his 250 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 3: idea as well, and they took us into the back. 251 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 3: Apparently the security guard got a fishy feeling about the 252 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 3: whole scenario, and the security guard started asking me questions. 253 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 3: He wanted to know how old I was, and he 254 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 3: wanted to know where I was from, and how I 255 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 3: knew the gentleman that I or the man that I 256 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: was with, and you know, I told him, oh, he's 257 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 3: my boyfriend, and we came out here from Ohio and 258 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: we came out here, we're going to get married. And 259 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 3: then the security guard called the police, and the police 260 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 3: came and they were asking me all the same questions, 261 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 3: but they were wanting to know if we had ever 262 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 3: had sex, and how many times and in what fashion, 263 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 3: and you know, things of that sort. So ultimately they 264 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 3: arrested him for kidnapping, fifteen counts of sexual assault of 265 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 3: a minor statue, tory sexual seduction, and I was his victim, 266 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 3: and they took him to jail for. 267 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 5: That, and because police saw that Alicia was listed as 268 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 5: a runaway, she was sent back to Ohio. Meanwhile, they 269 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 5: had discovered that Kasmeric was a convicted sex offender on 270 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 5: parole at the time, so in addition to the new charges, 271 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 5: the police had another reason to hold him in the 272 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 5: county jail while he was there, other incarcerated people learned 273 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 5: what he was in for, and in jails and prisons, 274 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 5: child molestation is considered by other prisoners one of the 275 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 5: most heinous charges someone could have, and often child molesters 276 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 5: are quickly hurt or killed while inside. Kasmeric knew this, and, allegedly, 277 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 5: to avoid being targeted, he was telling people he was 278 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 5: actually there for a robbery. To our knowledge, Kasmeric wasn't 279 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 5: aware that his victim, Pedro Virial, was dead. He was 280 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 5: left tied up but alive, but by now police had 281 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 5: found his body, and so. 282 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 3: I guess he was like kind of trying to save 283 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 3: his ass. Instead of like being known as a child molester, 284 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 3: he'd rather be known as someone who was like robbing 285 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 3: someone and you know, and did. 286 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 4: This and that. 287 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 3: So he had told other inmates about that, and they 288 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: called the homicide detectives. 289 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 5: It's not clear whether police connected the pond items to 290 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 5: Kasmeric before or after he bragged to other prisoners, but 291 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 5: the admission nevertheless peaked their interest in him, and now 292 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 5: the police and prosecution needed Alicia to testify against Kasmeric, 293 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 5: both as a witness of the murder and as a 294 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 5: victim to the child's molestation. But she was still caught 295 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 5: up in their love. 296 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 3: Story, and I said, no, I'm not going to testify 297 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 3: against him. 298 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 4: I love him. He's my boyfriend. He loves me. 299 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 5: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 300 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 5: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making 301 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 5: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 302 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 5: in the communities where we work and live. In light 303 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 5: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and 304 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 5: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 305 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 5: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 306 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 5: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. So, after all 307 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 5: Chasmeric had put her through, why was Alicious still loyal 308 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 5: to him? Well, it's because of something called Stockholm syndrome. 309 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 7: So Stockholm syndrome is a type of a drama bond. 310 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 5: This is Kelly Diane Gallowat. She's the president and founder 311 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 5: of Project Mona's House, an organization that helps women who 312 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 5: come in as victims to be transformed into survivors. 313 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 7: So the reason why we bring that up, and we 314 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 7: bring up trauma bonds in Stockholm syndrome is because a 315 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 7: lot of people say, well, obviously they weren't held against 316 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 7: their will, they weren't chained, they weren't tied, nobody had 317 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 7: a gun to their head. But human trafficking happens through force, fraud, 318 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 7: and coercion. And what ends up happening is you can 319 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 7: have a victim who, for some reason believes the words 320 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 7: that the traffickers are saying. Nobody's going to help you. 321 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 7: If you run, I'll find you. If you run, I'll 322 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 7: kill your family members. There's no place to go. Nobody 323 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 7: else loves you, nobody else will take care of you. 324 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 7: I treat you so good, and then they start to 325 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 7: develop this morphed view of love, this morphed view of companionship, 326 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 7: and this morphed view of support. Which is why even 327 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 7: when you go into the restoration process of a lot 328 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 7: of people who've gone through these forms of trauma, it's 329 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 7: hard to convince them that their abuser is not their lover, 330 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 7: their abuse or is not their friend, their abus or 331 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 7: is not their romantic partner, but in fact that they 332 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 7: are an abuser. 333 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 5: At this point, Alicia didn't realize how manipulated she had been. 334 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: And so when my public defender told the DA that 335 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 3: I was refusing to testify. The DA basically said, well, 336 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,239 Speaker 3: if you don't want to be as victim, you can 337 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 3: be as co defended. They dropped the charges against him 338 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 3: where I was his victim, and they charged him and 339 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 3: me both with murder. And I was held for thirteen 340 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 3: days in the adult jail, and during the course of 341 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 3: that thirteen days, I was in solitary confinement. I wasn't 342 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: allowed to talk to anybody, but I was receiving letters 343 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 3: from my trafficker, and he was basically telling me how 344 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 3: much he loved me and how I had the power 345 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 3: to save both of us, and because I was young, 346 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 3: if I took the blame, they would only give me 347 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 3: a little bit of time, and then they would only 348 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: give him a little bit of time, and then we 349 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 3: would get out around the same time and we could 350 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 3: still get married and be together. So he was still 351 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 3: very much grooming me and manipulating me in these letters. 352 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 5: And for the record, prisoners are not typically allowed to 353 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 5: communicate with one another via letter or phone, let alone 354 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 5: be in consistent communication with each other, but for whatever reason, 355 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 5: this rule was disregarded, and then, as if the letters 356 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 5: were not bad enough, Alicia and Kasmeric were allowed an 357 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 5: in person contact visit. 358 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 3: A week or two after the preliminary hearing, the DA 359 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 3: my trafficker's attorney and my public defender got together and 360 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 3: had the judge sign off on a contact visit between 361 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 3: me and my trafficker inside the county jail. 362 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 5: It makes no sense why this would happen except the 363 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 5: district attorney had offered Alicia a deal tend to life 364 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 5: in exchange for a guilty plea, and Cosmeric wanted her 365 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 5: to take it. 366 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 3: I can only speculate as to the reasons why he 367 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 3: would agree to talk me into taking their deal. We 368 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 3: have presumed that there was a possibility that he was 369 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 3: being promised not receiving the death penalty because he had 370 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 3: already been found guilty. So we think that he was 371 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 3: told if he got me to sign the deal, he 372 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 3: would not receive the death penalty. 373 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 5: What was the visit like? 374 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 4: I don't remember. 375 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 3: I don't remember, and there are no transcripts, there's no recording, audio, 376 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 3: or video of that visit. 377 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 4: There's nothing. 378 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 5: Was there anyone there with you in there? 379 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 3: I don't remember. I remember him. I remember him sitting 380 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 3: in front of me and telling me how much he 381 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 3: loved me, and how taking their deal was the best 382 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 3: thing for me. Shortly after that visit is when I 383 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 3: signed their deal. 384 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 5: Alicia pleaded guilty to second degree murder on April twenty first, 385 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 5: two thousand and three. She had only just turned sixteen. 386 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 5: Her sentence was handed down in June, and on July first, 387 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 5: she was sent to the women's prison. 388 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,719 Speaker 3: July first, two thousand and three, is the day that 389 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 3: it became real to me. Up to that day, I 390 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 3: kind of thought that it was a scared straight program, 391 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 3: or that they were gonna release me like they did 392 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 3: the first time. I didn't understand the severity. But I 393 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 3: remember that day when we pulled up to the prison 394 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 3: and the van pulls in through one gate. The gate 395 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 3: closes behind the van, and then the gate in front 396 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 3: opens so the van can pull through. When that first 397 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 3: gate was closed behind us, I just. 398 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 6: I broke. I started crying because literally it was so weird. 399 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 3: Because through signing the deal, and through all the court 400 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 3: hearings and through sentencing and. 401 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 4: Through transport to the prison, it didn't seem real to me. 402 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 6: But when when that gate closed, I was like, oh 403 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 6: my god, this is real. 404 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 5: Alicia's first years in prison were rough. 405 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 4: I gave up. I gave up for a long time. 406 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 5: What was giving up? Like, what does that mean? 407 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 4: Giving up? 408 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 8: Was accepting that that was my life and that was 409 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 8: all I was ever going to be. 410 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 3: I was going to be an inmate forever. I had nobody, 411 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 3: and I was by myself, and I had guards and 412 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 3: I had other inmates telling me that I wasn't. 413 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 6: Shit, that I was never going to be anything else 414 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 6: then that that's what my life was forever. 415 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 5: After the initial ten years she was sentenced to Alicia 416 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 5: was released on parole in November of twenty thirteen, but 417 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 5: she says even though she was now twenty five, she 418 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 5: still felt like a fifteen year old trying to navigate 419 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 5: the world. Within eight months, Alicia found herself back in prison. 420 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 3: Simply because I had no life skills. 421 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 4: I didn't know anything about life, you know. 422 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 3: And so of course I found myself in bad situations immediately. 423 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 3: During that eight months, I had gotten pregnant with my daughter. 424 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 3: I ended up having her in prison. I did two 425 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 3: years on that first violation. I got out again, and 426 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 3: I was only out nine months before I was violated 427 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 3: again and sent back. 428 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 4: During that nine months, I got pregnant with my son. 429 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 3: And ended up having him in prison as well. 430 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 5: Because Alicia was in state custody when she gave birth 431 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 5: to her children, they were taken from her, and because 432 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 5: she had no family to take them, the state put 433 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 5: them up for adoption. 434 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 9: When I lost my kids, I was at a fork. 435 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 6: I could either give up on life, on everything, or 436 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 6: I could fight. 437 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 3: And I decided to fight. 438 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 4: So I called an attorney. I called a lawyer. 439 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 9: I called Tony Abatangelo, and I told him my situation. 440 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 10: And I had the honor of meeting Alicia Burns five 441 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 10: or six years ago, and we've been fighting for her 442 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 10: case ever since then. 443 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 5: This is Tony Abotangelo. He's an attorney in Las Vegas, 444 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 5: and while working on Alicia's case, he's found a few 445 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 5: things that stand out. Starting with the crime scene. Remember 446 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 5: when Alicia, Kasmeric and Tommy left the apartment. Alicia said 447 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 5: they wiped down the room for fingerprints and made it 448 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 5: look as normal as possible. Alicia also says that vi 449 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 5: Real was alive. 450 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 10: Two days later, approximately the maintenance man Thomas Riddle. He 451 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 10: said that there was a call from another unit saying, hey, 452 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 10: there's a flyad here. So Riddle goes to the unit 453 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 10: that the victim was eventually found in and there. 454 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 5: Was a chain on the door, the chain locking the 455 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 5: door from the inside. 456 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 10: This is an agreed upon fact. There's a chain on 457 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 10: the door, and we all know you can't put a 458 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 10: chain on the door from the outside. You got to 459 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 10: be inside, right. 460 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 5: So without a way to get in, Riddle left. When 461 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 5: he came back less than an hour later to try again, 462 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 5: he found the chain off. So Riddle went in the room. 463 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 10: And that's when he finds victim Bill, a real and 464 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 10: like about two inches of battob Ward. So once again, 465 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 10: these are not facts. The defense is just making up. 466 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,959 Speaker 10: These are facts that I've been given and we're fighting 467 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 10: and arguing about. 468 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 5: Tony says, this shows that someone else went into the 469 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 5: room after Alicia, Kasmerk and Tommy left. According to Riddle, 470 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 5: the room was also in disarray. 471 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 10: Also, when the police did come to the scene of 472 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 10: a crime, they does it for fingerprints. 473 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 5: They found fingerprints, but remember Alicia says that they left 474 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 5: without a trace. So who's prince were these Well, they 475 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 5: ran them and couldn't find a match, not to Alicia, Kazmeric, 476 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 5: Tommy or anyone else. 477 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 10: Our position is run them. Maybe those people's names will 478 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 10: pop up, or a somebody will be identified, or a 479 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 10: hit is what it's called, will be associated with the fingerprint, 480 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 10: and that will reflect who was in there, and that 481 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 10: could help Alicia's claim that he was still alive. 482 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 5: It was at this time that Alicia started to realize 483 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 5: the truth about her time with Cosmeric. 484 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 6: You know, there were. 485 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 3: Lots of things on TV about human trafficking and sex 486 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 3: trafficking and what it looks like, and there was more 487 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 3: awareness about it, and I thought, oh my gosh. 488 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 6: That's what happens to me. 489 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 3: I should have been treated as a victim, because victims 490 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 3: should be treated as victims. They should not be criminalized 491 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 3: for being victims. 492 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 7: I believe that Alicia is a textbook definition of what 493 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 7: a child's sex trafficking victim is. 494 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 5: This is Kelly Dane Galloway. Again. Kelly has been helping 495 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 5: Alicia understand exactly what happened to her. 496 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 7: One of the initiatives of Project Wanna's House is to 497 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 7: help raise awareness about victims of human trafficking who are 498 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,479 Speaker 7: who have experienced what we call double victimization, victimized by 499 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 7: both a a trafficker or Jane or John, and then 500 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 7: by the criminal justice systems, And it's so incredibly hard 501 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 7: for me to understand, believe, and even conceive the mindset 502 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 7: of the prosecutors who brought charges against her, knowing her situation. 503 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 7: It is incredibly difficult for me to understand why she's 504 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 7: on lifetime parole when she literally was bought and sold 505 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 7: for sex at fifteen years old. 506 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,479 Speaker 5: Do you think back sometimes and like are like, I 507 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 5: can't believe this happened to me, and how did this happen? 508 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 3: I don't wonder how, because I know how I was. 509 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 3: I was neglected. I was I felt unloved, and I 510 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 3: felt forgotten about. And to have somebody even pretend. 511 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 6: To notice me and love me. 512 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 4: Meant the world, and it meant. 513 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 3: That I would have done anything for him, and clearly 514 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 3: I did. 515 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 5: Do you feel loved today? 516 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 3: I do. 517 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 5: Today. 518 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 3: I have friends and family who love me and care 519 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 3: about me. 520 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 10: Our position is, hey, two thousand and two, sex trafficking 521 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 10: really wasn't much of a thing at that time. Since then, 522 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 10: we have laws, whether it's in the federal court system 523 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 10: or in the state court system, that view this type 524 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 10: of behavior completely different. 525 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 5: Tony and Alicia are currently appealing a decision by the 526 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 5: Nevada Supreme Court denying Alicia in evidentiary hearing. 527 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 10: I wish, of course, that we can get the conviction 528 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 10: overturned or at least at minimum get her off of 529 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 10: lifetime supervision for parole. But I'm so proud of her 530 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 10: in a wait, the progress she's made in her life. 531 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 10: She is a very intelligent young woman who you know, 532 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 10: she's doing great. I mean, I'm very proud of her. 533 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 5: While she was in prison, Alicia started training in cosmetology. 534 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 5: Her most recent parole in July of twenty twenty cut 535 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 5: that training short, so she never got to complete it, 536 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 5: but that didn't deter her goals. Even though she hadn't 537 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 5: completed her training, Alicia was able to start a successful 538 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 5: beauty business Intocoma, Washington. Within six months, she sold it 539 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 5: to a medical spa and moved back to Las Vegas. 540 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 4: The plan was to open up the business down here. 541 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 3: I was just about to do that when I found 542 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 3: out I was growing a human. 543 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 5: Alicia is thrilled to be expecting her third child. While 544 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 5: her son's adoptive parents do allow her to have a 545 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,479 Speaker 5: relationship with him, her daughter's adoption was closed, so she 546 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 5: can't get in touch with her, But with this child 547 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 5: on the way, Alicia plans to fully enjoy being a 548 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 5: mother at last. 549 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 3: This baby is coming and I have to create a world, 550 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 3: you know, for it to come into. 551 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 5: What do you hope for your child? You know you 552 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 5: have two others, but it was not an ideal less 553 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 5: than ideal parenting situation. You know, now you have a 554 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 5: chance to do it over. 555 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 3: I want my child happy and healthy and safe and secure. 556 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 3: And I want my child to know that he or 557 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 3: she is loved. It has people that love them. 558 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 5: Alicia is currently looking for work. If you want to 559 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 5: help her with basic living expenses while she builds her 560 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 5: new life, go to GoFundMe dot com slash support Alicia Burns. 561 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 5: Hey y'all. Next week, the Wrongful Conviction Team is taking 562 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 5: a break, but don't worry, we have something very special 563 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 5: planned for you in our regular slot. Next Monday, we 564 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 5: are featuring episode one of the Pulitzer Prize winning podcast Suave, 565 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 5: which I hosted and produced along with the Futuro Media Group. 566 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 5: Suave goes inside the juvenile justice system to tell a 567 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 5: story of incarceration, redemption, and the unusual relationship between a 568 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 5: journalist and source. I know you'll want to hear it. 569 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 5: I have spent years on this project and we'll be 570 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 5: back just the week after with another episode of Wrongful 571 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 5: Conviction with Maggie Freeling. But in the meantime, please enjoy suave. 572 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. 573 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 5: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the 574 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 5: links in our bio to see how you can help. 575 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 5: I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm and 576 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 5: Kevin Wortis, as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea, 577 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 5: researcher Lila Robinson, story editor Sonia Paul, with additional production 578 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 5: by Jeff Cleiburn and Connor Hall. The music in this 579 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 5: production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 580 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 5: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, 581 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 5: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at 582 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 5: Wrongful Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On 583 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 5: all three platforms, you can also follow me on both 584 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 5: Instagram and Twitter at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie 585 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 5: Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in 586 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 5: association with Signal Company Number one