WEBVTT - 29: How an Old-School Chess Shop Survives in Modern New York 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.320 But knowledge to work and grow your business with c 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.680 i T. From transportation to healthcare to manufacturing. C i 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:10.520 T offers commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management services for 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:13.480 small and middle market businesses. Learn more at c i 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:25.840 T dot com put Knowledge to Work. Hello and welcome 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.800 to another edition of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm Joe Wisenthal, 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.479 Managing editor at Bloomberg Markets, and I'm Tracy Alloway, Executive 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:39.040 editor at Bloomberg Markets. Tracy, I'm so excited about today's episode. 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:42.560 I probably always say that that I'm excited, but this 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:46.800 episode is kind of on a slightly more offbeach subject, 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.599 not really anything specifically to do with economics or markets, 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.720 but about something about which something I'm very passionate about. 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.960 And there is a business angle. And do you know 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:02.920 what it's about. Uh, it's chess, right, that's right. Finally, 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.200 we were doing an episode of Odd Lots about chess, 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.920 and of course chess in the game. I mean, average 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:12.399 chess player, you wouldn't necessarily think there is a financier 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.640 markets angle, but there is in New York City a 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.840 chess business. There's a place that I love. It's in 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.000 the village. It's called the Chess Forum, and they sell 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:27.000 chess books and chess boards, and you can go there 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.120 and for a few dollars an hour play chess on 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:31.800 They have all these boards set up, and so you 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.200 could just go there and find a game and just 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.880 play chess all night. And it's this magical place in 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.080 New York City. So I remember this place. It was 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.119 actually really close to my old apartment in New York 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.759 and I remember walking past it and uh, I must 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.160 confess I never went there because I'm not a big 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.280 chess player, but it looked really, really interesting. It's one 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.160 of these things that seems like kind of old New 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.160 York and it's cool that it still exists. It's just 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.160 like it's always two cool to exist because at a 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.840 time when more and more things are like high end 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.480 restaurants or banks or other stuff, it's cool that there 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.359 is this piece of real estate devoted to playing chess. 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.440 And today I'm really excited we have the founder of 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:18.040 the Chess Forum and the owner, Iman hash On. He 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:20.320 founded it in the mid nineties and he is going 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:21.960 to be our guest today and we're going to be 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.440 talking about the business of running a chess store in 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.640 New York City. Fantastic. I'm really curious to see how 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:34.600 an old school place like that manages to survive. Me too, 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.320 So let's get started. Iman, thank you very much for 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:41.680 joining us here in the studio. Thank you so uh Iman, 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.120 tell us how did you tell us? How did the 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.919 Chess Forum begin? How did you found this chess shop? 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:54.080 And what is it? Many things? Whatever you want to 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.520 make of it as a business, as a chess store 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.480 that relies on setting chess a cool meant and other 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:06.040 classic games bat gammon, the Japanese game of goal checkers, domino, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:10.959 scribble cribbic, even measuring. At the same time, I see 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:16.560 it as partially a community service place where I believe 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.480 in that kind of thing where you have to give, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.320 if not as much as you can back to the 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.320 community that you live or exist in, where the local 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.360 neighborhood or the bigger city itself. And you founded it? 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.560 What year was it nine? Actually? And so you found 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:35.800 were you doing before that? Before that? I was a 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.240 student in a tunnel. You was doing a pH d 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.840 in comparative religion. And how did you have the idea 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.440 to why did you how did you come up with 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.600 the idea of launching a chester it's uh, his own 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.880 story actually, and if you remember, maybe you're too young 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:54.200 for that time. There was another store on the same 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:59.680 block and I worked there part time and developed into 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.160 a manager and the partner. And as you want to mention, 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.320 in the world of business, not a lot of partnerships 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.360 and the happy ending is I think the only ship 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.880 that doesn't float the partnership, right, believe that. So you 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:14.920 had a split with the owner of that other chess 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.279 shop just one day. It was one of those deals 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.040 I was at the time when I entered the partnership 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:25.919 in my little wenties and one on trust. Wait wait, wait, 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:30.320 I remember reading a little bit about this at the time. 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.440 There were news articles saying that there was this massive 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:38.279 chess feud basically in the village between the two chess shops. Right, 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.920 that's that's civil war that split Thompson Street, Right, And 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.960 does the other one still exist? It doesn't exist, if 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.760 it's so when I'm not sure? So talk to us 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:55.240 about running the business. Um, you sell books, you sell 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.360 boards of different games, as you said, and you also 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:02.359 rent out tables essentially for people to come and play chess. 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.240 So how does the business work. It's the same old 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.800 model of a store that one side of it is 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:14.360 a business relies on selling equipment, and the other side 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.359 is sort of a cafe if you want, or we 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:21.839 offer soft drinks and tables for people to play chess 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.840 or any other game, the old classic games that they 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:29.400 might like, especially back come on. And so you've been 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.200 doing it for over You've been doing it, I guess 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:36.480 over twenty years now, Um, what trends have you seen? 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.760 Is chess remain popular? Was there a time when it 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.200 was more popular than now? Do people come in at 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:46.719 the same levels? That part this game has two aspects 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.400 to it. There's a functional practical aspect, and there is 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:56.400 a esthetic aspect. The functional aspect is practically wiped out 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:01.359 by the Internet. Almost everybody plays online or in the 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:07.160 beginning to a software. Right now it's just directly playing. 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.800 The engines are directly online or they come with your 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:14.280 own phone or on computer, so that part has weakened drastically. 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.000 That trend is that mostly we see senior citizens two 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.960 groups that are too late or too early for technology, 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.760 either senior citizens in their nineties or children four or 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.479 five years old. These are sort of the loyal clientele. 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.520 Anywhere in between is practically going to one. You see 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.880 it online and you see the industries staring at their 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:41.560 phones or tableits at night. It's more popular with couples, 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:44.440 So now we have not like sort of dating scene. 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.560 People go on dating. It sounds like a nice data 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.000 that's nice. I like that. That's a good data idea. 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:55.400 So what's the split in revenue like between sales of 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:59.560 actual chest related items and the payments you receive for 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.400 letting people play chess in the store and for selling 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.800 drinks and that sort of thing. It's really I don't 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:08.880 know if there will be a split. As I said 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.920 that playing part is more of a service than it's 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:15.760 a business. So the business is really all the selling stuff. Yeah, 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:20.320 I mean, which are senior citizens one hour? Children play 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:24.560 free all the time. They whoever plays with them, their family. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.640 They don't pay if there's a child playing. That area 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.280 of Manhattan is really sort of mecca for chess because 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.480 in addition to the old chess shop that you put 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.960 out of business, it's right near Washington Square Park, which 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.240 has a pretty thriving chess community there right. Yes, it's 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:44.520 most real taste around the park and Dinion Square as 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.280 a four our scene who are have you what kind 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.640 of a big name chess players have you had come 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.280 in and played chess on the forum. We had that 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.520 I forget his name, but less name Leco Hungarian Grandmaster 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.520 Peter Luck the Teleco. Yeah, at the moment, I don't 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:07.880 know it counts, but oh, Carowana, he's like the hottest 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.360 thing right now. He's he's American, right, he's Italian born 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.320 in America, Italian born in America. And he's even playing 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:18.000 better than Magnus Carlson. I think he's a future of chess. Yeah, 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.400 and he started that chess for him, He started a 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.320 chess for Has he come back since he's become famous? 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.760 Who haven't seen him since? I think he just moved 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.880 back to the US, like a few almost a few 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.240 months ago. He started at four. I remember his father 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.960 came and asked for a chess teacher. So it's like 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.240 a classic Bobby Fisher style story of us some young 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.560 some young prodigy looking at parents looking for a teacher 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.920 at that time. You don't know that's what any parent 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.800 would think. What you offer your kids? So opportunities offer? 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.679 Do you see that? A lot of parents imagining their 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.080 children shows an interested chess and these parents sort of 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.520 fantasized that their kids are going to be the next 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.120 Bobby Sure, and they're convinced that their child is a prodigy. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:07.560 That's a constant thing, not always happy thing, right, I 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.920 imagine that. Wait, so the reason that children get to 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.200 play for free at the Chess Forum is because you're trying, 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.000 presumably to nurture a whole another generation of chess fans 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:23.200 and future customers. Right Exactly when I started, I realized 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.679 as a business, even in say they it's a very 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.480 small business. It's really negregible. If you want to talk 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.880 about economy and numbers, there's nothing there. There is no product. 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.920 At the same time, there's no clientele. So you had 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:40.960 to work on both. I had to widen my selection 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.040 just to widen that peel. At the same time, I 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.120 had to find to create the customer. Thinking that almost 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.800 I would I would say, like an agricultural way of 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.040 thinking that that commercial way of thinking, like you plant 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.800 a tree and you eat the fruit maybe two years later. 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.240 I like. I like that. That's was my reason. Thing 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.600 is that we need, almost like they used to do 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:07.800 in Russia, to spread the game amongst the population, hoping 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.960 for two things. Expand the market, and second, maybe out 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.760 of that population, the issue becomes higher of creating a 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.959 world champion or if not a larger number of grand masters. 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.280 Before you got into the chess business, what did you 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:23.360 think you were going to do? What did you study for? 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.800 What did you do? All? Right? It was may becoming 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:30.400 a professor, university teacher of some sort. That was the 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.920 plan that took my family a lot of time to 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:37.360 accept the idea of becoming what this was a shopkeeper? 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.120 And do you get to play much? But that often? 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.960 I would love to play more, but I've noticed, first 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.800 of I have, like maybe myself, addictive personality. So I 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.400 try to meet and just as you know as a player, 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:54.600 you know yourself that if you sit to play, you 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.560 don't want to do anything else. And I have a 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.920 room full of people like that, very smart, very intelligent, 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.600 very funny, well educated, but they don't want to do 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:07.480 anything else. Practically, the game takes over your life. Is 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.240 really the closest thing to being about who drinks his 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.640 own alcohol? Right? Have you seen people's lives get ruined 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.080 by chess? I've seen quite a few, sadly, in a 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:24.960 very unfortunate, very sad way, marriages destroyed, feminis broken up, 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.560 drops and careers lost just by the magic or the 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.400 cares or the power of the chessboard. It has its 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.240 own drop. Incredible and that Now let's take a very 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:44.640 quick break for a word from our sponsor, but knowledge 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.599 to work and grow your business with c I T. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:51.120 From transportation to healthcare to manufacturing. C i T offers 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.960 commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management services for small and 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.160 middle market businesses. Learn more at c I T dot com. 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:07.640 Put Knowledge to Work. And we're back with Iman Kashan, 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:12.480 the founder and owner of the Chess Forum, this wonderful 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.360 chess shop in the village in Manhattan. And right before 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.520 the break, you were talking about how you've seen chess 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.040 and the magic and the power of the chessboard. People 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.120 get so engrossed in it that it ruins their lives, 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.559 that ruins their families. What is it about chess? After 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:35.200 all these years, computers have long surpassed human ability in 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.040 terms of ability to um you know, or computers are 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:41.440 clearly better than us. Now that's still gravitate. People are 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.800 still gravitated to it. Why do you think this game 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.200 in particular just draws people in. I think the best 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.240 way to express it is that story of the man 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.800 or the farmer who did the kana service and the 0:12:54.960 --> 0:13:00.079 king for them any price that he wants. So we 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.760 humbly said, I'll just take a coin, or some people 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.600 say one piece of wheat and put it on the 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.840 square of a chessboard, and as we move square to square, 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.960 just double that number. So it goes to say, by 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.400 the end the on practically half the kingdom. So this 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.360 just the idea is that the possibilities no two games 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.080 are the same. That's why it's difficult to memorize games, 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.920 right because even grand master play, like even with these 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.520 openings that have been studied to death, often by say 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.040 move twelve or thirteen, they're in completely uncharted territory that 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.240 I've never been seen before. Right, yes, so again, like 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.679 you start and you don't know where I like in 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.079 it similarity to life, there is no guessing where your 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.600 day will take you, no guessing where your move will lead. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.320 That's I think sometimes why they like heavy pieces just 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:55.520 to give a weight. What I like to teach the 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.400 younger players or the kids, is that this game is 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.160 a game of life, and that's sense of consequences. Don't 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.720 make a move lightly when it depends the course of 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.120 a game, a difference between a win, a lose, or 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.920 a draw. So you both are waxing lyrical about the 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:18.040 the allure of chess, especially played against a physical opponent 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.920 who's actually there in the room with you. Why are 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:24.720 people um playing so much chess online? It seems like 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.840 it would lose a little bit of the romance and 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:32.560 the fun of actually playing in real life. I mean, 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:36.200 maybe it's an understatement to say a little bit lose 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.520 the romance, toy gun. It's as much as over romance 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:46.000 as maybe dating a computer screen. I noticed when people 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.480 come to us first of all, why it's because it's convenient. 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.280 There is no more like anything ordering food or going 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.840 to the restaurant to shop or to the supermarket, and 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.040 it's coming to your house. You gain time, you save money, 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.520 and you have whole world. Now, I mean, that's what 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.760 technology did. What used to involve you a trip all 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.440 the way from Jersey or Queen's to chess for him. 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.200 Now it's just in the palm of your hand. You 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.880 have the player, you have the pieces, the board and 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.880 the clock and you can't even trash talk now. Uh 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.520 so let's talk go back you know, I like playing 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:22.360 at the chess for him. I also like playing at 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:27.280 Washington Square Park, and people play for money often. Um, 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.600 I don't want you to have to admit if there's 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.280 gambling ever going on in your establishment. But do you 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.440 think that you know that adds to the thrill of it, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.720 the idea that there might be five or ten dollars 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.440 on the line in a game, or do you think 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:42.880 that takes away from the game. It depends how you 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.040 look at it. If some people are playing the five 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.360 for the thrill, I think it would be fun. But 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.240 the unfun part that sometimes you have to come across 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.840 is those who do that to make a living. Yeah, 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.880 so it's a much more desperate game, right, difference between 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.800 as somebody in the park, A player Rocky One from 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.240 in thirty Dollars he said this, this is really my 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.520 food money. Yeah, so it's a big So that's when 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.840 there's a chance of a clash, even physical, because you're 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:18.880 fighting for your lifelihood. Do you prohibit people playing for 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.560 money in the chess forum? Yeah, this is I mean, 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.680 it's really I have to say it's it's been like 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.800 everything is good and best size. It's very quiet and 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.080 calm and peaceful, but it's much less of a crowd. 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.600 If you want, you could fill a whole auditorium with gamblers, 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.920 but then basically have to have nine on one on 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:43.520 speed dial. So on the business side, I imagine you've 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:45.640 seen the rent go up quite a bit. I mean 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.800 you're in a very trendy part of Manhattan. Has that 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.560 been difficult? It's been, Like I think what's been a 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.840 little bit more difficult than rent is a new thing 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.120 that's been introduced a few years ago. Real estate tax. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.840 That's something that's it's almost practically like another rent. Huh 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.080 that when I first took the place, there was no 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.399 such thing, something very minimal. Now you practically pay a 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.960 large chunk of the real estate text and that's really 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.520 a big burden. That makes life for making in Smith 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.800 a little bit or not a little bit, much more difficult. 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.679 Have you been able to increase prices on boards and 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.159 books to match increasing costs to begin? I really like 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.520 almost a lot of things are the same price like. 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.680 So you're really under pressure on two fronts, right, because 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:42.159 not only are you getting digital pressure from the internet 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.720 from people playing chess online, but you must also be 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.200 under pressure from sites like Amazon in terms of selling 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.600 chess books and equipment, and that definitely that's in terms 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.359 of play and now I think there are hundreds of 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:01.320 thousands of sites who sell that particular and maybe everything else. 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.320 I've seen even a site where the man sells just 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:12.280 boards and the wife sells underwear for women that I saw. 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:17.359 That What a world. It's a natural pairing, obviously exactly 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.760 one after their interest. But yeah, I know it's everyone 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:26.680 in this. In a way, there's an element of democraticization 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:32.480 or equalization that everybody has a chance to do anything 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.359 they want. But I find it too clearly the romans 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.040 of life in general. Will the Will the Chess Forum 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.919 be here in ten years? That's the hope. Really, Like 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.080 I mean, this is would be an amazing achievement if 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:47.680 we're able to do it, just I did. I would 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.920 I say, like I like, if we ever have to leave, 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.520 I would like to say for another hundred years, I 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.440 cannot see a city like New York with at a 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.960 place like this. I agree to me. It's one of 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.000 the quintessential New York establishment. And as I was saying 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.199 in the in the beginning, it's almost too good to 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.240 exist because it's so cool, and I think New York 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.960 would be worse without it. Before we wrap up, do 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.879 you have any sort of highlight of your time running 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:14.920 the Chess Forum that was sort of to you one 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.520 of the You know, it doesn't sound like it's been 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.399 extraordinarily financially rewarding, but was there a great story that 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.280 you tells you like why it's been so worth it 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:29.520 to keep it going? I mean besides uh Fabiano story, 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.680 but every every day by itself for me that as 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.280 I said, like, my example of business isn't something you 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.359 teach in business school. What I do isn't the fact 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.560 that I tried to run a business on goodwill that 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.600 if you give, don't be afraid it will come back somehow. 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.200 The fact that we are open to me is American 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.720 and has it come back. It's the fact that we're 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.440 open is the proof that it comes back. I mean, 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.440 you look at numbers, they don't make sense, but how 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:57.719 is it open if anybody believes that? That's why I say, 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.800 you kind of teach it in business school, but faith 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.879 or hope that do that. I think look out for 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.120 people and people will look out for you somehow. I mean, 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.160 it would be nice if there's a system that this 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:11.680 is more of a cultural institution at the stage, not 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.440 a business. Well, and that's such a refreshing thing to 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.520 hear because obviously we talked about finance all day and 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:22.040 nobody says anything like that. So it was an absolute 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.360 pleasure talking to you and learning about your business. I mean, 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.040 that's the final thing we're seeing sitting behind in the 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.600 store and seeing people, business people, children, all kinds of 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.160 tourists who are amazed that from Europe, who play mayor chess, 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.600 but are amazed that exists in New York. I feel 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:42.040 that New York has the hype and delivers. Yeah, that's 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.760 one thing special by the people looking slowly through the 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.640 windows at the sets with that innocent, pure smile. There's 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.880 no money in it, there's no interest, there's no anything gained. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.080 Back and forth, just for a second or two, you 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.440 put a smile on somebody's face before they go back 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:00.880 to their real life. At think this is my best 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.159 word every day. Well, thank you very much for joining us, 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.560 and obviously to anyone who's listening to the Odd podcast, 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.560 if you're in New York or visiting New York, I 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.320 highly endorsed checking out the Chess Forum it's on Thompson Street. 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:22.879 Thank you so much. Well, Tracy, I love chess obviously, 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:25.320 but what did you think about it? Because I thought 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.520 that was great, But I'm curious to get your perspective. 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:32.000 So all right, I admit I'm frustrated with chess, mostly 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:34.400 because whenever I try to play it with my husband, 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:38.600 he tries fools mate on me, and like I fall 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:45.000 for I'm a terrible, terrible chess player. But after listening 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.600 to that, I feel kind of bad. I feel like 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:49.680 when I was in New York, I probably should have 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:51.879 gone to the Chess Forum at least a couple of 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.800 times and tried to hone my game a little bit more. 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:59.879 You really have no excuse for getting by fools made now. 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:02.200 I hate to say that. Well. I was going to 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.760 say we should play online sometime, but after that discussion, 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.679 I don't think we should. I love that discussion. I 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:13.000 thought that he captured the appeal of chess and the 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.159 appeal of running a place like the Chess Forum perfectly. 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:18.680 And while I still live in New York and I'm 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.640 not planning on moving anytime soon, I'm now going to 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.760 make it a commitment to go there more often. You know, 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.960 what I found really interesting was just the discussion about 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.080 all the pressures brought to bear by the Internet and 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:37.679 everything kind of moving online. Because obviously in business and 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.760 markets we talk a lot about big companies like Amazon, 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.360 new up starts like Airbnb, and all the pressures they 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:50.720 brought to bear on traditional players, and I think sometimes 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:54.680 we forget that traditional brick and mortar stores like the 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:59.640 Chess Forum are providing a service for these big guys, right, 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:05.800 that's talking about nurturing a new generation of chess players. 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:08.600 Like what he said, Like the ability, to say, for 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.280 a tourist or a family to be able to walk 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.720 down the street and have their children look into a 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:17.920 shop window and see a chess set is a legit 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:21.280 positive public good. I mean, even if you don't buy anything, 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:24.480 it's cool to like window shop, and so to think 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:27.880 about all the places that offer that, to think about 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.760 them all potentially going away strikes me as a genuine 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.880 loss of a good good, even if from a strictly 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:36.960 commercial stance you can get a better or more efficient 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:40.360 deal online. Yeah, I think that's right, all right, Tracy, Well, 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.680 it was great chatting with you, and thank you to 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:46.919 everyone for listening to Odd lots. I'm Joe Wisn't All. 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.280 You can follow me on Twitter at the Stalwarts, and 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:52.480