1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320
Speaker 1: But knowledge to work and grow your business with c

2
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,680
Speaker 1: i T. From transportation to healthcare to manufacturing. C i

3
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,520
Speaker 1: T offers commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management services for

4
00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,480
Speaker 1: small and middle market businesses. Learn more at c i

5
00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:25,840
Speaker 1: T dot com put Knowledge to Work. Hello and welcome

6
00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 1: to another edition of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm Joe Wisenthal,

7
00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,479
Speaker 1: Managing editor at Bloomberg Markets, and I'm Tracy Alloway, Executive

8
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:39,040
Speaker 1: editor at Bloomberg Markets. Tracy, I'm so excited about today's episode.

9
00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,560
Speaker 1: I probably always say that that I'm excited, but this

10
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,800
Speaker 1: episode is kind of on a slightly more offbeach subject,

11
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,599
Speaker 1: not really anything specifically to do with economics or markets,

12
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 1: but about something about which something I'm very passionate about.

13
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,960
Speaker 1: And there is a business angle. And do you know

14
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: what it's about. Uh, it's chess, right, that's right. Finally,

15
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,200
Speaker 1: we were doing an episode of Odd Lots about chess,

16
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 1: and of course chess in the game. I mean, average

17
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,399
Speaker 1: chess player, you wouldn't necessarily think there is a financier

18
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 1: markets angle, but there is in New York City a

19
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,840
Speaker 1: chess business. There's a place that I love. It's in

20
00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 1: the village. It's called the Chess Forum, and they sell

21
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 1: chess books and chess boards, and you can go there

22
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,120
Speaker 1: and for a few dollars an hour play chess on

23
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 1: They have all these boards set up, and so you

24
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,200
Speaker 1: could just go there and find a game and just

25
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,880
Speaker 1: play chess all night. And it's this magical place in

26
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: New York City. So I remember this place. It was

27
00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,119
Speaker 1: actually really close to my old apartment in New York

28
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,759
Speaker 1: and I remember walking past it and uh, I must

29
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 1: confess I never went there because I'm not a big

30
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 1: chess player, but it looked really, really interesting. It's one

31
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 1: of these things that seems like kind of old New

32
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 1: York and it's cool that it still exists. It's just

33
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 1: like it's always two cool to exist because at a

34
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 1: time when more and more things are like high end

35
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,480
Speaker 1: restaurants or banks or other stuff, it's cool that there

36
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,359
Speaker 1: is this piece of real estate devoted to playing chess.

37
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,440
Speaker 1: And today I'm really excited we have the founder of

38
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,040
Speaker 1: the Chess Forum and the owner, Iman hash On. He

39
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 1: founded it in the mid nineties and he is going

40
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:21,960
Speaker 1: to be our guest today and we're going to be

41
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,440
Speaker 1: talking about the business of running a chess store in

42
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,640
Speaker 1: New York City. Fantastic. I'm really curious to see how

43
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 1: an old school place like that manages to survive. Me too,

44
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 1: So let's get started. Iman, thank you very much for

45
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,680
Speaker 1: joining us here in the studio. Thank you so uh Iman,

46
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,120
Speaker 1: tell us how did you tell us? How did the

47
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,919
Speaker 1: Chess Forum begin? How did you found this chess shop?

48
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:54,080
Speaker 1: And what is it? Many things? Whatever you want to

49
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,520
Speaker 1: make of it as a business, as a chess store

50
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,480
Speaker 1: that relies on setting chess a cool meant and other

51
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:06,040
Speaker 1: classic games bat gammon, the Japanese game of goal checkers, domino,

52
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,959
Speaker 1: scribble cribbic, even measuring. At the same time, I see

53
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: it as partially a community service place where I believe

54
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,480
Speaker 1: in that kind of thing where you have to give,

55
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,320
Speaker 1: if not as much as you can back to the

56
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,320
Speaker 1: community that you live or exist in, where the local

57
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,360
Speaker 1: neighborhood or the bigger city itself. And you founded it?

58
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,560
Speaker 1: What year was it nine? Actually? And so you found

59
00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,800
Speaker 1: were you doing before that? Before that? I was a

60
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,240
Speaker 1: student in a tunnel. You was doing a pH d

61
00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,840
Speaker 1: in comparative religion. And how did you have the idea

62
00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,440
Speaker 1: to why did you how did you come up with

63
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,600
Speaker 1: the idea of launching a chester it's uh, his own

64
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 1: story actually, and if you remember, maybe you're too young

65
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 1: for that time. There was another store on the same

66
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 1: block and I worked there part time and developed into

67
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,160
Speaker 1: a manager and the partner. And as you want to mention,

68
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 1: in the world of business, not a lot of partnerships

69
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 1: and the happy ending is I think the only ship

70
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,880
Speaker 1: that doesn't float the partnership, right, believe that. So you

71
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 1: had a split with the owner of that other chess

72
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,279
Speaker 1: shop just one day. It was one of those deals

73
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,040
Speaker 1: I was at the time when I entered the partnership

74
00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,919
Speaker 1: in my little wenties and one on trust. Wait wait, wait,

75
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 1: I remember reading a little bit about this at the time.

76
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 1: There were news articles saying that there was this massive

77
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,279
Speaker 1: chess feud basically in the village between the two chess shops. Right,

78
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,920
Speaker 1: that's that's civil war that split Thompson Street, Right, And

79
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,960
Speaker 1: does the other one still exist? It doesn't exist, if

80
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,760
Speaker 1: it's so when I'm not sure? So talk to us

81
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 1: about running the business. Um, you sell books, you sell

82
00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,360
Speaker 1: boards of different games, as you said, and you also

83
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,359
Speaker 1: rent out tables essentially for people to come and play chess.

84
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 1: So how does the business work. It's the same old

85
00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,800
Speaker 1: model of a store that one side of it is

86
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,360
Speaker 1: a business relies on selling equipment, and the other side

87
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,359
Speaker 1: is sort of a cafe if you want, or we

88
00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,839
Speaker 1: offer soft drinks and tables for people to play chess

89
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,840
Speaker 1: or any other game, the old classic games that they

90
00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,400
Speaker 1: might like, especially back come on. And so you've been

91
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 1: doing it for over You've been doing it, I guess

92
00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,480
Speaker 1: over twenty years now, Um, what trends have you seen?

93
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 1: Is chess remain popular? Was there a time when it

94
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,200
Speaker 1: was more popular than now? Do people come in at

95
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,719
Speaker 1: the same levels? That part this game has two aspects

96
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 1: to it. There's a functional practical aspect, and there is

97
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 1: a esthetic aspect. The functional aspect is practically wiped out

98
00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:01,359
Speaker 1: by the Internet. Almost everybody plays online or in the

99
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 1: beginning to a software. Right now it's just directly playing.

100
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,800
Speaker 1: The engines are directly online or they come with your

101
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,280
Speaker 1: own phone or on computer, so that part has weakened drastically.

102
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 1: That trend is that mostly we see senior citizens two

103
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,960
Speaker 1: groups that are too late or too early for technology,

104
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: either senior citizens in their nineties or children four or

105
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,479
Speaker 1: five years old. These are sort of the loyal clientele.

106
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,520
Speaker 1: Anywhere in between is practically going to one. You see

107
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,880
Speaker 1: it online and you see the industries staring at their

108
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 1: phones or tableits at night. It's more popular with couples,

109
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 1: So now we have not like sort of dating scene.

110
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,560
Speaker 1: People go on dating. It sounds like a nice data

111
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 1: that's nice. I like that. That's a good data idea.

112
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,400
Speaker 1: So what's the split in revenue like between sales of

113
00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,560
Speaker 1: actual chest related items and the payments you receive for

114
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,400
Speaker 1: letting people play chess in the store and for selling

115
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,800
Speaker 1: drinks and that sort of thing. It's really I don't

116
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 1: know if there will be a split. As I said

117
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 1: that playing part is more of a service than it's

118
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,760
Speaker 1: a business. So the business is really all the selling stuff. Yeah,

119
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,320
Speaker 1: I mean, which are senior citizens one hour? Children play

120
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 1: free all the time. They whoever plays with them, their family.

121
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 1: They don't pay if there's a child playing. That area

122
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,280
Speaker 1: of Manhattan is really sort of mecca for chess because

123
00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 1: in addition to the old chess shop that you put

124
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,960
Speaker 1: out of business, it's right near Washington Square Park, which

125
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,240
Speaker 1: has a pretty thriving chess community there right. Yes, it's

126
00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,520
Speaker 1: most real taste around the park and Dinion Square as

127
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 1: a four our scene who are have you what kind

128
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 1: of a big name chess players have you had come

129
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 1: in and played chess on the forum. We had that

130
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: I forget his name, but less name Leco Hungarian Grandmaster

131
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,520
Speaker 1: Peter Luck the Teleco. Yeah, at the moment, I don't

132
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 1: know it counts, but oh, Carowana, he's like the hottest

133
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 1: thing right now. He's he's American, right, he's Italian born

134
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,320
Speaker 1: in America, Italian born in America. And he's even playing

135
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,000
Speaker 1: better than Magnus Carlson. I think he's a future of chess. Yeah,

136
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,400
Speaker 1: and he started that chess for him, He started a

137
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,320
Speaker 1: chess for Has he come back since he's become famous?

138
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,760
Speaker 1: Who haven't seen him since? I think he just moved

139
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,880
Speaker 1: back to the US, like a few almost a few

140
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 1: months ago. He started at four. I remember his father

141
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,960
Speaker 1: came and asked for a chess teacher. So it's like

142
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 1: a classic Bobby Fisher style story of us some young

143
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,560
Speaker 1: some young prodigy looking at parents looking for a teacher

144
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,920
Speaker 1: at that time. You don't know that's what any parent

145
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 1: would think. What you offer your kids? So opportunities offer?

146
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,679
Speaker 1: Do you see that? A lot of parents imagining their

147
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,080
Speaker 1: children shows an interested chess and these parents sort of

148
00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 1: fantasized that their kids are going to be the next

149
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 1: Bobby Sure, and they're convinced that their child is a prodigy.

150
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,560
Speaker 1: That's a constant thing, not always happy thing, right, I

151
00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 1: imagine that. Wait, so the reason that children get to

152
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,200
Speaker 1: play for free at the Chess Forum is because you're trying,

153
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 1: presumably to nurture a whole another generation of chess fans

154
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,200
Speaker 1: and future customers. Right Exactly when I started, I realized

155
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,679
Speaker 1: as a business, even in say they it's a very

156
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,480
Speaker 1: small business. It's really negregible. If you want to talk

157
00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 1: about economy and numbers, there's nothing there. There is no product.

158
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,920
Speaker 1: At the same time, there's no clientele. So you had

159
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,960
Speaker 1: to work on both. I had to widen my selection

160
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,040
Speaker 1: just to widen that peel. At the same time, I

161
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 1: had to find to create the customer. Thinking that almost

162
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 1: I would I would say, like an agricultural way of

163
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,040
Speaker 1: thinking that that commercial way of thinking, like you plant

164
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 1: a tree and you eat the fruit maybe two years later.

165
00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,240
Speaker 1: I like. I like that. That's was my reason. Thing

166
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 1: is that we need, almost like they used to do

167
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,800
Speaker 1: in Russia, to spread the game amongst the population, hoping

168
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,960
Speaker 1: for two things. Expand the market, and second, maybe out

169
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,760
Speaker 1: of that population, the issue becomes higher of creating a

170
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,959
Speaker 1: world champion or if not a larger number of grand masters.

171
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 1: Before you got into the chess business, what did you

172
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 1: think you were going to do? What did you study for?

173
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 1: What did you do? All? Right? It was may becoming

174
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,400
Speaker 1: a professor, university teacher of some sort. That was the

175
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 1: plan that took my family a lot of time to

176
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 1: accept the idea of becoming what this was a shopkeeper?

177
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 1: And do you get to play much? But that often?

178
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,960
Speaker 1: I would love to play more, but I've noticed, first

179
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,800
Speaker 1: of I have, like maybe myself, addictive personality. So I

180
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 1: try to meet and just as you know as a player,

181
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,600
Speaker 1: you know yourself that if you sit to play, you

182
00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,560
Speaker 1: don't want to do anything else. And I have a

183
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 1: room full of people like that, very smart, very intelligent,

184
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,600
Speaker 1: very funny, well educated, but they don't want to do

185
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,480
Speaker 1: anything else. Practically, the game takes over your life. Is

186
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,240
Speaker 1: really the closest thing to being about who drinks his

187
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,640
Speaker 1: own alcohol? Right? Have you seen people's lives get ruined

188
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,080
Speaker 1: by chess? I've seen quite a few, sadly, in a

189
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:24,960
Speaker 1: very unfortunate, very sad way, marriages destroyed, feminis broken up,

190
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,560
Speaker 1: drops and careers lost just by the magic or the

191
00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,400
Speaker 1: cares or the power of the chessboard. It has its

192
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 1: own drop. Incredible and that Now let's take a very

193
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:44,640
Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor, but knowledge

194
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,599
Speaker 1: to work and grow your business with c I T.

195
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 1: From transportation to healthcare to manufacturing. C i T offers

196
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,960
Speaker 1: commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management services for small and

197
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,160
Speaker 1: middle market businesses. Learn more at c I T dot com.

198
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 1: Put Knowledge to Work. And we're back with Iman Kashan,

199
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,480
Speaker 1: the founder and owner of the Chess Forum, this wonderful

200
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,360
Speaker 1: chess shop in the village in Manhattan. And right before

201
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 1: the break, you were talking about how you've seen chess

202
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,040
Speaker 1: and the magic and the power of the chessboard. People

203
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,120
Speaker 1: get so engrossed in it that it ruins their lives,

204
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,559
Speaker 1: that ruins their families. What is it about chess? After

205
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,200
Speaker 1: all these years, computers have long surpassed human ability in

206
00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,040
Speaker 1: terms of ability to um you know, or computers are

207
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,440
Speaker 1: clearly better than us. Now that's still gravitate. People are

208
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 1: still gravitated to it. Why do you think this game

209
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,200
Speaker 1: in particular just draws people in. I think the best

210
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 1: way to express it is that story of the man

211
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,800
Speaker 1: or the farmer who did the kana service and the

212
00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:00,079
Speaker 1: king for them any price that he wants. So we

213
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 1: humbly said, I'll just take a coin, or some people

214
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 1: say one piece of wheat and put it on the

215
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,840
Speaker 1: square of a chessboard, and as we move square to square,

216
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,960
Speaker 1: just double that number. So it goes to say, by

217
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,400
Speaker 1: the end the on practically half the kingdom. So this

218
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 1: just the idea is that the possibilities no two games

219
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,080
Speaker 1: are the same. That's why it's difficult to memorize games,

220
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,920
Speaker 1: right because even grand master play, like even with these

221
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,520
Speaker 1: openings that have been studied to death, often by say

222
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 1: move twelve or thirteen, they're in completely uncharted territory that

223
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,240
Speaker 1: I've never been seen before. Right, yes, so again, like

224
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,679
Speaker 1: you start and you don't know where I like in

225
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,079
Speaker 1: it similarity to life, there is no guessing where your

226
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,600
Speaker 1: day will take you, no guessing where your move will lead.

227
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,320
Speaker 1: That's I think sometimes why they like heavy pieces just

228
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,520
Speaker 1: to give a weight. What I like to teach the

229
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,400
Speaker 1: younger players or the kids, is that this game is

230
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,160
Speaker 1: a game of life, and that's sense of consequences. Don't

231
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,720
Speaker 1: make a move lightly when it depends the course of

232
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,120
Speaker 1: a game, a difference between a win, a lose, or

233
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,920
Speaker 1: a draw. So you both are waxing lyrical about the

234
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:18,040
Speaker 1: the allure of chess, especially played against a physical opponent

235
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,920
Speaker 1: who's actually there in the room with you. Why are

236
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 1: people um playing so much chess online? It seems like

237
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 1: it would lose a little bit of the romance and

238
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 1: the fun of actually playing in real life. I mean,

239
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 1: maybe it's an understatement to say a little bit lose

240
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 1: the romance, toy gun. It's as much as over romance

241
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:46,000
Speaker 1: as maybe dating a computer screen. I noticed when people

242
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 1: come to us first of all, why it's because it's convenient.

243
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,280
Speaker 1: There is no more like anything ordering food or going

244
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,840
Speaker 1: to the restaurant to shop or to the supermarket, and

245
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,040
Speaker 1: it's coming to your house. You gain time, you save money,

246
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,520
Speaker 1: and you have whole world. Now, I mean, that's what

247
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: technology did. What used to involve you a trip all

248
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,440
Speaker 1: the way from Jersey or Queen's to chess for him.

249
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,200
Speaker 1: Now it's just in the palm of your hand. You

250
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,880
Speaker 1: have the player, you have the pieces, the board and

251
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,880
Speaker 1: the clock and you can't even trash talk now. Uh

252
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 1: so let's talk go back you know, I like playing

253
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,360
Speaker 1: at the chess for him. I also like playing at

254
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:27,280
Speaker 1: Washington Square Park, and people play for money often. Um,

255
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,600
Speaker 1: I don't want you to have to admit if there's

256
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,280
Speaker 1: gambling ever going on in your establishment. But do you

257
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,440
Speaker 1: think that you know that adds to the thrill of it,

258
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,720
Speaker 1: the idea that there might be five or ten dollars

259
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 1: on the line in a game, or do you think

260
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 1: that takes away from the game. It depends how you

261
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 1: look at it. If some people are playing the five

262
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,360
Speaker 1: for the thrill, I think it would be fun. But

263
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,240
Speaker 1: the unfun part that sometimes you have to come across

264
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 1: is those who do that to make a living. Yeah,

265
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,880
Speaker 1: so it's a much more desperate game, right, difference between

266
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 1: as somebody in the park, A player Rocky One from

267
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 1: in thirty Dollars he said this, this is really my

268
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 1: food money. Yeah, so it's a big So that's when

269
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,840
Speaker 1: there's a chance of a clash, even physical, because you're

270
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 1: fighting for your lifelihood. Do you prohibit people playing for

271
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 1: money in the chess forum? Yeah, this is I mean,

272
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,680
Speaker 1: it's really I have to say it's it's been like

273
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 1: everything is good and best size. It's very quiet and

274
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 1: calm and peaceful, but it's much less of a crowd.

275
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 1: If you want, you could fill a whole auditorium with gamblers,

276
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 1: but then basically have to have nine on one on

277
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 1: speed dial. So on the business side, I imagine you've

278
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,640
Speaker 1: seen the rent go up quite a bit. I mean

279
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 1: you're in a very trendy part of Manhattan. Has that

280
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,560
Speaker 1: been difficult? It's been, Like I think what's been a

281
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 1: little bit more difficult than rent is a new thing

282
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 1: that's been introduced a few years ago. Real estate tax.

283
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 1: That's something that's it's almost practically like another rent. Huh

284
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 1: that when I first took the place, there was no

285
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,399
Speaker 1: such thing, something very minimal. Now you practically pay a

286
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 1: large chunk of the real estate text and that's really

287
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 1: a big burden. That makes life for making in Smith

288
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,800
Speaker 1: a little bit or not a little bit, much more difficult.

289
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,679
Speaker 1: Have you been able to increase prices on boards and

290
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,159
Speaker 1: books to match increasing costs to begin? I really like

291
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 1: almost a lot of things are the same price like.

292
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,680
Speaker 1: So you're really under pressure on two fronts, right, because

293
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,159
Speaker 1: not only are you getting digital pressure from the internet

294
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 1: from people playing chess online, but you must also be

295
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,200
Speaker 1: under pressure from sites like Amazon in terms of selling

296
00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 1: chess books and equipment, and that definitely that's in terms

297
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,359
Speaker 1: of play and now I think there are hundreds of

298
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 1: thousands of sites who sell that particular and maybe everything else.

299
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 1: I've seen even a site where the man sells just

300
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 1: boards and the wife sells underwear for women that I saw.

301
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 1: That What a world. It's a natural pairing, obviously exactly

302
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,760
Speaker 1: one after their interest. But yeah, I know it's everyone

303
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 1: in this. In a way, there's an element of democraticization

304
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 1: or equalization that everybody has a chance to do anything

305
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,359
Speaker 1: they want. But I find it too clearly the romans

306
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 1: of life in general. Will the Will the Chess Forum

307
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,919
Speaker 1: be here in ten years? That's the hope. Really, Like

308
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this is would be an amazing achievement if

309
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 1: we're able to do it, just I did. I would

310
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,920
Speaker 1: I say, like I like, if we ever have to leave,

311
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 1: I would like to say for another hundred years, I

312
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,440
Speaker 1: cannot see a city like New York with at a

313
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 1: place like this. I agree to me. It's one of

314
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 1: the quintessential New York establishment. And as I was saying

315
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,199
Speaker 1: in the in the beginning, it's almost too good to

316
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 1: exist because it's so cool, and I think New York

317
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 1: would be worse without it. Before we wrap up, do

318
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,879
Speaker 1: you have any sort of highlight of your time running

319
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 1: the Chess Forum that was sort of to you one

320
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 1: of the You know, it doesn't sound like it's been

321
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 1: extraordinarily financially rewarding, but was there a great story that

322
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 1: you tells you like why it's been so worth it

323
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 1: to keep it going? I mean besides uh Fabiano story,

324
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 1: but every every day by itself for me that as

325
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 1: I said, like, my example of business isn't something you

326
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 1: teach in business school. What I do isn't the fact

327
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 1: that I tried to run a business on goodwill that

328
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: if you give, don't be afraid it will come back somehow.

329
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,200
Speaker 1: The fact that we are open to me is American

330
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 1: and has it come back. It's the fact that we're

331
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 1: open is the proof that it comes back. I mean,

332
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 1: you look at numbers, they don't make sense, but how

333
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,719
Speaker 1: is it open if anybody believes that? That's why I say,

334
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 1: you kind of teach it in business school, but faith

335
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 1: or hope that do that. I think look out for

336
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,120
Speaker 1: people and people will look out for you somehow. I mean,

337
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 1: it would be nice if there's a system that this

338
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 1: is more of a cultural institution at the stage, not

339
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: a business. Well, and that's such a refreshing thing to

340
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 1: hear because obviously we talked about finance all day and

341
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: nobody says anything like that. So it was an absolute

342
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,360
Speaker 1: pleasure talking to you and learning about your business. I mean,

343
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 1: that's the final thing we're seeing sitting behind in the

344
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: store and seeing people, business people, children, all kinds of

345
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 1: tourists who are amazed that from Europe, who play mayor chess,

346
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: but are amazed that exists in New York. I feel

347
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: that New York has the hype and delivers. Yeah, that's

348
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: one thing special by the people looking slowly through the

349
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,640
Speaker 1: windows at the sets with that innocent, pure smile. There's

350
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 1: no money in it, there's no interest, there's no anything gained.

351
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: Back and forth, just for a second or two, you

352
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 1: put a smile on somebody's face before they go back

353
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 1: to their real life. At think this is my best

354
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: word every day. Well, thank you very much for joining us,

355
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: and obviously to anyone who's listening to the Odd podcast,

356
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 1: if you're in New York or visiting New York, I

357
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 1: highly endorsed checking out the Chess Forum it's on Thompson Street.

358
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Well, Tracy, I love chess obviously,

359
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 1: but what did you think about it? Because I thought

360
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: that was great, But I'm curious to get your perspective.

361
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: So all right, I admit I'm frustrated with chess, mostly

362
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 1: because whenever I try to play it with my husband,

363
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: he tries fools mate on me, and like I fall

364
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: for I'm a terrible, terrible chess player. But after listening

365
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: to that, I feel kind of bad. I feel like

366
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 1: when I was in New York, I probably should have

367
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 1: gone to the Chess Forum at least a couple of

368
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: times and tried to hone my game a little bit more.

369
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 1: You really have no excuse for getting by fools made now.

370
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 1: I hate to say that. Well. I was going to

371
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: say we should play online sometime, but after that discussion,

372
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 1: I don't think we should. I love that discussion. I

373
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: thought that he captured the appeal of chess and the

374
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 1: appeal of running a place like the Chess Forum perfectly.

375
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: And while I still live in New York and I'm

376
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 1: not planning on moving anytime soon, I'm now going to

377
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: make it a commitment to go there more often. You know,

378
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: what I found really interesting was just the discussion about

379
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: all the pressures brought to bear by the Internet and

380
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 1: everything kind of moving online. Because obviously in business and

381
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: markets we talk a lot about big companies like Amazon,

382
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 1: new up starts like Airbnb, and all the pressures they

383
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: brought to bear on traditional players, and I think sometimes

384
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 1: we forget that traditional brick and mortar stores like the

385
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: Chess Forum are providing a service for these big guys, right,

386
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: that's talking about nurturing a new generation of chess players.

387
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: Like what he said, Like the ability, to say, for

388
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: a tourist or a family to be able to walk

389
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: down the street and have their children look into a

390
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 1: shop window and see a chess set is a legit

391
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: positive public good. I mean, even if you don't buy anything,

392
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: it's cool to like window shop, and so to think

393
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 1: about all the places that offer that, to think about

394
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: them all potentially going away strikes me as a genuine

395
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: loss of a good good, even if from a strictly

396
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: commercial stance you can get a better or more efficient

397
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 1: deal online. Yeah, I think that's right, all right, Tracy, Well,

398
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: it was great chatting with you, and thank you to

399
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: everyone for listening to Odd lots. I'm Joe Wisn't All.

400
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at the Stalwarts, and

401
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Halloway. I'm on Twitter at Tracy Halloway. Thanks

402
00:23:52,480 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: for listening. Put knowledge to work and grow your business

403
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: with c i T. From transportation to healthcare to manufacturing.

404
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: C i T offers commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management

405
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: services for small and middle market businesses. Learn more at

406
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: c i T dot com. Put Knowledge to Work