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Speaker 1: Mexico City. Mexico country is full of delicious food. Each

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Speaker 1: region a different style. This is very important for you

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Speaker 1: to understand. If you go to Wahaka, if you go

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Speaker 1: to Yucatan, if you go to Bracruz, be brave. Come

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Speaker 1: to Mexico.

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Speaker 2: From Fudurro Media, It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria in no Josa.

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Speaker 2: Today chef and author Margharita Carrillo Ronde takes us on

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Speaker 2: a tour of all things Mexican food. Margharita Carrillo Arnte's

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Speaker 2: love of cooking started when she was really young.

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Speaker 1: I have cooked all my life. This is a family tradition.

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Speaker 1: Since I could reach the stove, my mother allowed me

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Speaker 1: to help her, so all my life I've been cooking.

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Speaker 2: For a time, Margharita thought her future lay elsewhere. She

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Speaker 2: even studied education, thinking she might become a teacher someday,

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Speaker 2: but her path looped back to the kitchen.

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Speaker 3: Drawn by her love of food.

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Speaker 2: Margharita has built a celebrated culinary career spanning more than

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Speaker 2: thirty five years, and her area of expertise, of course,

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Speaker 2: is the food of her home country, Mexico. Margherita has

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Speaker 2: been committed to showcasing Mexican cuisine on the world stage.

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Speaker 2: She's traveled extensively, sharing the flavors and foods of Mexico

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Speaker 2: across Europe, Asia, and the Americas. Margharita has also run

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Speaker 2: several successful restaurants and become a popular TV host for

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Speaker 2: cooking and history shows in Latin America.

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Speaker 1: Carrio Loosimbito a chemic companion, Elmoso is Tabo with puevl

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Speaker 1: conosremos la Maqueestsida Susierra Northe.

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Speaker 2: Her love for all things Mexican food doesn't stop there.

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Speaker 2: In twenty ten, Margharita joined efforts to designate traditional Mexican

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Speaker 2: cuisine as an Intangible Cultural Heritage by UNESCO.

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Speaker 3: That's a pretty big deal.

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Speaker 2: It says that this cuisine is a valuable contribution to

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Speaker 2: the entire world and should be conserved for generations to come.

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Speaker 2: Margherita has written some seminole cookbooks on the subject to

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Speaker 2: including twenty fourteen's Mexico the Cookbook. In twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: she released one of her most ambitious projects to date,

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Speaker 2: The Mexican Vegetarian Cookbook, and in it she explores Mexico's

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Speaker 2: indigenous culinary legacy and elevates its rich history of plant cookie.

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Speaker 2: For this episode of Latino USA, Margharita and I hopped

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Speaker 2: on a call for a candid conversation about cooking, eating,

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Speaker 2: and loving Mexican food. Margharita, Carrio Aronte, Welcome to Latino USA.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me. So I just need to know.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell me exactly where you are right now?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm in Mexico City, in the woody area towards Toluca,

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Speaker 1: Las Aguilas.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's in Las Aguiles. See see No, that's where

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Speaker 2: my family used to be. Yeah, they had a house

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Speaker 2: in Las Aguiles. That was like, well, I'm a little

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Speaker 2: bit higher up. We're going to talk a lot about food,

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Speaker 2: but before we get to food, can you tell me

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Speaker 2: what is one of your favorite things about Mexico City

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Speaker 2: About being from Mexico City.

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Speaker 1: I love it because you can get anything here, You

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Speaker 1: can find anything. The only thing you need is time.

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Speaker 1: And although it's such a big city, people are still

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Speaker 1: kind and friendly and I love living here really.

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Speaker 2: And did you grow up in Mexico City. I'm from

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Speaker 2: Sila Quaris. My father brought us to Mexico City. Margharita.

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Speaker 2: I have so many specific food memories. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: tell you. One is we're talking about Mexico City. Miabuelito

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Speaker 2: can pas desconce. My grandfather would take us to El

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Speaker 2: Centro and there were two things that we would eat

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Speaker 2: when we went with my grandfather to Elcentro. One he

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Speaker 2: would take my father, who is from Tampico, to be

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Speaker 2: sure to have concia my seafood, comida mar comida del

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Speaker 2: mar and we would have a My father would eat

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Speaker 2: welba labida.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, m it's delicious.

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Speaker 2: And what goes inside of wellbea labida, which means return

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Speaker 2: to life.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's oysters, shreamed scallops of course, onion, tomato, cilantro

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Speaker 1: and a little bit of tomato, sauce and chile. And

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Speaker 1: Welba labida has everything, even optopus. It's it's really coming

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Speaker 1: back to life.

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Speaker 2: Let's keep on talking about your experience, because actually, even

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Speaker 2: though you love Mexico City, we love Mexico City. The

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Speaker 2: truth is that you've spent your entire career championing the

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Speaker 2: culinary ingenuity of Mexico rit large so through your work,

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Speaker 2: you've really traveled across the country and so Apart from

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Speaker 2: Mexico City, what are your favorite cities in Mexico to

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Speaker 2: eat and to cook in across all of Mexico.

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Speaker 1: I've just come back three days ago from Wahaca. Your

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Speaker 1: favorite dish, Oh, let's say Molenegro. Molenegro, right, Haka has

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Speaker 1: a wealth, culinary wealth. It's something really extraordinary. Waacka Bera Cruz,

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Speaker 1: of course, Puebla. But Bera Cruz has very interesting food

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Speaker 1: because it has the sea, the seafood, you know, the coast,

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Speaker 1: and it has the woods and the lagoisteca. It's really

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Speaker 1: a mixture of ingredients because when the Spaniards arrived, bringing

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Speaker 1: all the ingredients that they brought, we already had a

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Speaker 1: developed cuisine from Veracruz. The Spaniards went all over Mexico,

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Speaker 1: but in Veracruz they left a lot of the things

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Speaker 1: they brought, like capers, olives, olive oil, and things that

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Speaker 1: we didn't have.

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Speaker 2: Now I understand why they call it pescado a laberra cruzanna,

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Speaker 2: and the fact that it is based on the olives,

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Speaker 2: the capers and the olive oil. Yes, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: all right, you also brought up Puebla of course, it

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Speaker 2: isn't Puebla where I tasted something that I think he

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Speaker 2: used to only be able to get in Puebla, which

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Speaker 2: is wasantles. I don't even know how you say that

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Speaker 2: in English because a lot of what we're talking about

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Speaker 2: is actually tinella rei is indigena, right, is indigenous. Completely,

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Speaker 2: It's an everyday food completely. I mean was Angeles is

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Speaker 2: a naw aattle word? I imagine?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, completely?

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Speaker 3: What's your favorite dish from Puebla?

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Speaker 2: Oh, such a Mexic Why do you make such difficult questions?

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Speaker 1: In season? You have to try chilis and nogada.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I think that is one of my top dishes

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Speaker 2: of all time. We can't leave people hanging. People are

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Speaker 2: gonna be like, what is chilis and nogada?

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Speaker 1: Yes, chilis and nogada? Is is this delicious plan or

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Speaker 1: chili stuffed with a mixture of pork and veal, with

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Speaker 1: fruit from the season, certain type of apple, certain type

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Speaker 1: of pear, peaches, and also raisins, almonds, and it has

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Speaker 1: lots of spices like cinnamon, a little bit of clove,

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Speaker 1: a touch of nutmeg. And then the nogada, which is

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Speaker 1: made with a fresh walnuts. They have to be fresh,

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Speaker 1: otherwise it doesn't work. And the whole family is peeling

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Speaker 1: the fresh walnuts that they sell on the streets in

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Speaker 1: Mexico City or in Pueblin, all over the markets. You

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Speaker 1: peel them and then make the nogada, which is with

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Speaker 1: milk a piece of regional poplano goat cheese, and it

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Speaker 1: makes like a sauce, so delicious.

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Speaker 2: A white sauce that then you pour on top of

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Speaker 2: the chilis that are stuffed with all of these things,

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Speaker 2: and then to top it off, you.

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Speaker 3: Put pomegranate seeds on the top.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, the colors of our flag, because these

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Speaker 1: chilis were invented by the nuns and they were celebrating

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Speaker 1: the independence of Mexico and that they were estrinando. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how to say this in English. They were

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Speaker 1: premiering the flag, the new flag with the new colors.

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Speaker 1: So it's petty hill parsley, and the chili is are green, white,

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Speaker 1: which is the cream the nogana, and red with a

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Speaker 1: palm granite. It's so beautiful. It's beautiful to look and

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Speaker 1: it's fantastic to eat.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because you know, Mexican food in the United States.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk for a moment, right about the experience of

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Speaker 2: Mexican food in the United States. I moved to New

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Speaker 2: York Margharita to go to college, and there were no

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Speaker 2: Mexicans in New York. I had to start bringing my

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Speaker 2: tortillas from Chicago. And then when I graduate college is

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Speaker 2: when I ended up working margharita at a restaurant in

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Speaker 2: New York called I'm going to say it the way

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Speaker 2: it was pronounced here in New York. It was called

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Speaker 2: Krumba Karamba. It was tex mechs, it was burritos. It

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Speaker 2: was a lot of cheese, it was a lot of

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Speaker 2: sour cream, it was a lot of you know, overly

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Speaker 2: flavored rice. It was a lot of ground beef. And

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Speaker 2: you know, this was not Mexican food. And I'm wondering

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Speaker 2: how you've dealt with the fact that you've, you know,

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Speaker 2: traveled around the world, and you know, some people have

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Speaker 2: this concept about Mexican food. Komono Manekas, let me tell

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Speaker 2: you that burritos are Mexican from the North, yes, but

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Speaker 2: not the way they serve them in the USA. And

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Speaker 2: I have been to the original original Cristos Tomos.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 2: They're so bad, and they have nothing to do with

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Speaker 2: the burrito that is sold here in the United States.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it's because the American customers want to see

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Speaker 1: their plate full. This is like a phenomenon that has

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Speaker 1: developed because Mexican people who cross the border, they want

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Speaker 1: to be accepted. They want to develop a good business

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Speaker 1: and be accepted. So they changed their food and they

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Speaker 1: adapted to the taste of the Americans. And I have

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Speaker 1: nothing against tex Mex, but you have to make a difference.

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Speaker 1: This is tex Mex and this is Mexican.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk about some of the things that you've

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Speaker 2: had to encounter, Margarita in legitimizing Mexican food in the

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Speaker 2: elite spaces. I mean, what has that been like?

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Speaker 1: You know, I was the executive chef for the G

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Speaker 1: twenty when it was in Mexico, and it was a

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Speaker 1: huge responsibility. The whole thing was in a huge, big resort, beautiful.

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Speaker 1: So I talked to the executive chef about the food

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Speaker 1: that they were selling us Mexican and I said, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: this is not Mexican, this is tex Mex And he

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Speaker 1: told me, well, is that customers want this food, and

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Speaker 1: I said, yes, it's fun. You can give them this food,

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Speaker 1: but you have to have a little space conule trero

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Speaker 1: that says texts Max. And the rest has to be

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Speaker 1: you could take because this resort is in Cancun, but

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Speaker 1: it's owned by a You could take an owner and

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Speaker 1: he has all you could taken employees. And I asked

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Speaker 1: the chefs when we were in a meeting, would you

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Speaker 1: give your grandmother this food as Mexican? And they said no, no,

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Speaker 1: they would kill us. And I said, well, why do

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Speaker 1: you want the customers to eat this food as Mexican

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Speaker 1: and you don't take it to your family And he said, Mia,

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Speaker 1: Wilita Man Matt, Yes, okay, my grandmother would kill me. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So you have to make the real thing and announce

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Speaker 1: it like Mexican food.

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Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, my conversation with Mexican chef

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Speaker 2: and cookbook author Margarita Carrio Arnde continues, stay with us,

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Speaker 2: not the bias.

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Speaker 3: Hey, we're back.

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Speaker 2: I've been speaking with Mexican chef and cookbook author Margharita

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Speaker 2: Carrio Aronte. We're gonna keep the conversation going. As Margharita

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Speaker 2: tells me about her experiences growing up in the kitchen,

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Speaker 2: and she's gonna give us a crash course on the

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Speaker 2: history of Mexican foods and cooking techniques. You said that

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Speaker 2: you started cooking when you were about seven years old,

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Speaker 2: and I know that I definitely was not cooking when

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Speaker 2: I was seven years old. So can you tell me

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Speaker 2: a little bit about you know why in your home

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Speaker 2: it was this notion of like, come on, let's all

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Speaker 2: cook together. It's a family thing. And sure you're only

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Speaker 2: seven years old, but I'm going to teach you how

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Speaker 2: to cook because it's a lot of people like, how

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Speaker 2: do you maybe a seven year old is cooking?

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Speaker 1: Yes, because you know, my grandmother, my mother's mother turned

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Speaker 1: a widoor a widower at eight years of age with

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Speaker 1: four children. So being from Parrel, Chihuahua, well she was

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Speaker 1: you know, the society ladies. Knew how to play the

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Speaker 1: piano and how to paint, how to embroider, but she

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Speaker 1: didn't make a career, a professional career, so the only

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Speaker 1: thing she could do was cook. And in her house

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Speaker 1: in downtown Parrel, she opened Una Casade Bankett, this a

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Speaker 1: catering business, and Una Casade wast bedies that.

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Speaker 2: Would be like a host overs people can sleep, you know, yes.

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Speaker 1: And she taught all the ladies from Chihuahua because she

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Speaker 1: it was her way of living, you know, teaching cooking,

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Speaker 1: and in summers she organized cooking classes for her granddaughters.

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Speaker 1: We are twelve granddaughters, so she organized and she taught

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Speaker 1: us everything from cooking beans the proper way, to making

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Speaker 1: beautiful cakes with sugar, little leaves and flowers and roses.

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Speaker 1: She taught us everything, and only myself, only me, became professional.

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Speaker 1: But in my family, all women cook, and my mother

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Speaker 1: was an artist. She played the piano beautifully and she

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Speaker 1: cooked like an angel.

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Speaker 2: So that's where it starts for you, cooking for your family,

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Speaker 2: helping your mom. Yes, And then it turns out you

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Speaker 2: spend thirty years immersed in a very elite part of

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Speaker 2: the culinary world. In fact, you end up cooking for

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Speaker 2: pretty high profile people like Barack Obama. Angela Merkle, you've

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Speaker 2: hosted a popular cooking and travel TV show in Mexico.

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Speaker 2: But I kind of want you to take me to

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Speaker 2: that very first time that you realized I want to

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Speaker 2: do this and I'm going to do it professionally. And

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Speaker 2: when did you decide to do that. What was the

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Speaker 2: moment and what was the reaction that you got.

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Speaker 1: My husband encouraged me a lot. And I had a

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Speaker 1: very dear friend and she's a fantastic cook, Alicia Hironeja

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Speaker 1: de Angeli. She had a restaurant, El Tahin, and she

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Speaker 1: organized courses the restaurant. If you joined you learned from

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Speaker 1: serving to cooking. I took this course at the El

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Speaker 1: Tahin and Alicia invited me to go with her to London.

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Speaker 1: We went to cook to this fantastic hotel, the Lanesbro

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Speaker 1: and it was a huge experience. She's a great chef

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Speaker 1: and from that experience, the first one, I enjoyed it

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Speaker 1: so much that I started looking for the opportunity and

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Speaker 1: I had the opportunity of traveling to Japan to cook,

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Speaker 1: to the US, to Canada and agarrifersa professionally.

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Speaker 2: So Margharita labrevav I really loved your latest cookbook. It's

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Speaker 2: The Mexican Vegetarian Cookbook. It's a companion to another cookbook

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Speaker 2: of yours called Mexico the Cookbook. But in this one

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Speaker 2: you got four hundred recipes together of authentic traditional Mexican food,

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Speaker 2: and all of them totally sincarne without meat. And you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people think that meat is frankly a

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Speaker 2: central part of the Mexican culinary experience. So did you

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Speaker 2: always understand that Mexican food is, in fact and has

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Speaker 2: always been, very plant based or is this something that

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Speaker 2: you've really developed over your years as a chef.

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Speaker 1: Well, to be very honest, I'm not vegetarian. I'm an omnivore,

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Speaker 1: took respire whatever, I eat, everything, everything. So when the

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Speaker 1: editor of Phidon told me, we want you to write

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Speaker 1: a vegetarian book, equally, wow, what am I going to do?

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Speaker 1: Because meat is, yes, the base meat in general, not

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Speaker 1: red meat necessary, but chicken vescado animal protein. But when

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Speaker 1: I started to research, I found a lot and the

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Speaker 1: further back you go into the history of Mexico, the

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Speaker 1: more vegetarian the food is. Because if you remember, in

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Speaker 1: this part of the world, not only Mexico, all the continent,

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Speaker 1: the American continent, from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, there

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Speaker 1: were no cattle of any kind, no cows, hen goat, lamb, pig, nothing.

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Speaker 1: So everything was hunting, fishing, and recollecting. In Mexico, we

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Speaker 1: had turkey, hairless dog and rabbits, and also venison and

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Speaker 1: wild boar. But we didn't have we didn't even have chicken.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for that culinary I appreciate that fauna history

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Speaker 2: of the Americas. So I'm wondering, mad Garita, Obviously times

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Speaker 2: have changed, but are people surprised that you wrote a

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Speaker 2: vegetarian book.

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Speaker 1: No, no, not anymore. Now there are even vegan restaurants

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Speaker 1: in Mexico City.

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Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit about the ways that Mexicans

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Speaker 2: in fact have embraced plant based food where they have

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Speaker 2: cooked happily without meat throughout history, because I think this

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Speaker 2: comes from the pre Columbian times where.

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Speaker 1: That yes, yes, if you go to our history, our

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Speaker 1: pre Columbia history, well it was only the Latoani who

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Speaker 1: had this animal based protein. He ate fish, and he

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Speaker 1: had all this meat, yes, But the rest of the

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Speaker 1: people ate vegetable based food. A lot of free holeis

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Speaker 1: beans and legumes. We ate a lot of food with

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Speaker 1: pumpkin seeds, a lot of sauces, and then we ate

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Speaker 1: with chaiyotei. Right, And one thing that we ate and

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Speaker 1: we still eat today a lot is skelitis edible, while.

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Speaker 2: Leaf watercress arugola, spinach, these kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: Today we still eat a lot, especially in rainy season.

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Speaker 2: Marghanita, what is the thing? And I can tell that

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Speaker 2: you're a very happy person, and you're a very kind person.

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Speaker 2: But what are some of the things that completely when

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Speaker 2: you hear about the misconception of Mexican cuisine or the

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Speaker 2: history of our food when you're speaking to foreigners, what

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Speaker 2: is some of the things you know?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I know, like, oh, I.

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Speaker 3: Know, Mexicano is too greasy, it's so heavy. What's the

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Speaker 3: thing that you hear?

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Speaker 1: They don't know, they're just ignorant. When the Spaniards came,

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Speaker 1: they also brought the frying technique. They brought the lard

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Speaker 1: and the oil. Da da da da da. But the

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Speaker 1: lard it became a question of status. There was a

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Speaker 1: saying in colonial Mexico, oh have you seen the Gonzales

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Speaker 1: or the petest or how are they doing? Oh no, no,

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Speaker 1: they are doing very well. They now cook with manteka.

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Speaker 1: Rich people could cook with manteka. Before the cooking methods

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Speaker 1: in Mexico were steaming, grilling, cooking over hot stones, or

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Speaker 1: on a comal, boiling. And that's it. Because we didn't

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Speaker 1: have any oil or fat or lard or anything. So

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Speaker 1: if you go to little towns, they still cook everything

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Speaker 1: on the komali. You know, it's a cultural thing.

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Speaker 2: We're having a critic conversation right, the perception of Mexican

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Speaker 2: food and what that means. Why do you think it

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Speaker 2: matters how we talk about and think about a country's food.

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Speaker 1: It's so important. Mexican food is so Muina finadam. We

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Speaker 1: very elaborate. And you know, I had a restaurant in

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Speaker 1: Los Cabos for eight years, a very successful restaurant, and

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Speaker 1: one day one guy wanted me to make a lunch

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Speaker 1: for one hundred people, and I said, well, okay, I

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Speaker 1: prepare the menu at the time. When I gave him

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Speaker 1: the price, and he said, huh, why so expensive if

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Speaker 1: it's just Mexican food.

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: Then I told him, what, my dear, No, you came

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Speaker 1: to the wrong restaurant because it's the same chicken, the

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Speaker 1: same fish, the same meat, the same salad, the same everything,

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Speaker 1: but just made more elaborate and more refine that what

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Speaker 1: you eat normally. Why would it be cheaper because it's Mexican.

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Speaker 1: It's a misconception.

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Speaker 2: So, Marianita, what is the thing that you want the

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Speaker 2: world to think about when they think about Mexican.

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Speaker 1: Food, that Mexican food is healthy, varied, refined, very elaborate. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it is elaborate, but it's worth eating. It's worth cooking

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Speaker 1: and trying those flavors, those fantastic flavors that combine chilis

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Speaker 1: and spices and flowers, and it's really good, really really good.

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Speaker 1: And next time you come to Mexico, write me an

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Speaker 1: email and I will take you around to the good places.

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Speaker 2: Well, I am going to be the most intelligent consumer

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Speaker 2: of Mexico City food when I hang out with you. Margharita,

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Speaker 2: thank you for the invitation in muchas gracias.

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Speaker 3: What is that in Trevista? It took me back to

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Speaker 3: my childhood.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, Maria, it has been a pleasure.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate everything that you've done for Mexican cuisine.

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Speaker 3: Muchas Graciaz.

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Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.

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Speaker 3: This episode was produced.

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Speaker 2: By Alejandra Sarrasad and edited by Daisy Contreras.

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Speaker 3: It was mixed by Julia Caruso.

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Speaker 2: The Latino USA team includes Andrea Lopez Cruzado, Marta Martinez,

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Speaker 2: Mike Sargez, Victoria Estrada, Rinaldo, Leanos Junior, Patricia Lubran and

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Speaker 2: Julia Rocha, with help from Raoulberees. Our editorial director is

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Speaker 2: Fernanda Santos. Our director of Engineering is Stephanie Lebau. Our

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Speaker 2: associate engineers are gabrie Lebiaz and JJ Carubin.

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Speaker 3: Our marketing manager is Luis Luna.

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Speaker 2: Our New York Women's Foundation Fellow is Elizabeth Lowenthal Torres.

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Speaker 2: Our theme music was composed by singher Robinos. I'm your

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Speaker 2: host and executive producer Mari Ganno Hoosa. I join us

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Speaker 2: again on our next episode, and in the meantime, look

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Speaker 2: for us on all of your social media at Latino

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Speaker 2: USA and remember not tevayes esta proxima cao.

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Speaker 4: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heising

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Speaker 4: Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities More at hsfoundation

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Speaker 4: dot org, the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the

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Speaker 4: front lines of social change worldwide, and the John D.

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Speaker 4: And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation.

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Speaker 3: And did you grow up in Mexico City?

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Tiwawa.

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Speaker 2: Oh so that's a very big change. Yes, if you're

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Speaker 2: from Mexico, you know exactly what that means,