WEBVTT - Here Today

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin.

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<v Speaker 2>Had you come home late at night on December eighth,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty and turned on your television, you would have

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<v Speaker 2>had some generation shaking news.

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<v Speaker 3>He was shot late this evening in front of his

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<v Speaker 3>apartment building in New York City. Apparently he was killed

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<v Speaker 3>almost immediately. The man who shot John Lennon walked up

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<v Speaker 3>to the musician as he was leaving his limousine. According

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<v Speaker 3>to eyewitnesses, he said, mister Lennon and then fired at

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<v Speaker 3>him point blank at least five times.

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<v Speaker 4>And if I.

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<v Speaker 5>Said I really knew you, well, what would.

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<v Speaker 4>Your answer me?

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<v Speaker 6>This is basically a memory song that is a love

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<v Speaker 6>song to John.

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<v Speaker 7>Or knowing you, you probably laugh and says that we

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<v Speaker 7>were worlds aboard.

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<v Speaker 6>He's written after he died, and I was remembering things

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<v Speaker 6>about our relationship and things about the million things we've

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<v Speaker 6>done together.

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<v Speaker 4>But as for me, I still remember it was before

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<v Speaker 4>and I am holding back the team.

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<v Speaker 6>From just being in each other's front parlors or bedrooms,

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<v Speaker 6>or walking on the street together or hitchhiking love.

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<v Speaker 2>And I've been fortunate to spend time with one of

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest songwriters of our era.

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<v Speaker 4>And will you look at me?

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<v Speaker 6>I'm going on to I'm actually a performer.

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<v Speaker 2>That is, Sir Paul McCartney. We worked together on a

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<v Speaker 2>book looking at the lyrics of more than one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty of his songs, and we recorded many hours

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<v Speaker 2>of our conversations.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm actually I'm a songwriter. My god, well, that crypta homie.

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<v Speaker 2>This is McCartney, A life in lyrics, a masterclass, a memoir,

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<v Speaker 2>and an improvised journey with one of the most iconic

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<v Speaker 2>figures in popular music in this episode here today. John

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<v Speaker 2>Lennon died on December eighth, nineteen eighty. It was a

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<v Speaker 2>loss grieved by millions of people around the world. As

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<v Speaker 2>Paul McCartney mourned in the following years, he found himself

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<v Speaker 2>remembering all of the time they had spent together as

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<v Speaker 2>childhood friends, bandmates and creative collaborators.

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<v Speaker 6>And I was in what is now my recording studio

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<v Speaker 6>in Sussex. It was just a little house. There was

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<v Speaker 6>little room upstairs that was bare wooden planks and bare walls,

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<v Speaker 6>and I had my guitar with me. So I just

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<v Speaker 6>sat there and wrote this and it started, as also

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<v Speaker 6>does with me. We're finding something nice on the guitar,

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<v Speaker 6>A good chord or something.

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<v Speaker 1>Just this.

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<v Speaker 6>If I said, but that it's just such a lovely chord,

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<v Speaker 6>it's not. I don't know what it is actually, And if.

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<v Speaker 5>I said I really knew you, well, what would you

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<v Speaker 5>answer me?

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<v Speaker 4>If you read day?

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<v Speaker 8>One of the things which I find very interesting is

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<v Speaker 8>that the title is here today, but you never get

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<v Speaker 8>round to letting the others shoe drop as it were

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<v Speaker 8>on that when you don't refer to so far as

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<v Speaker 8>I can see.

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<v Speaker 1>I E. Gone tomorrow. Mmm, no, which I think is

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<v Speaker 1>really quite beautiful. Yeah, I think.

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<v Speaker 6>Do you know when I thought of here today, I

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<v Speaker 6>would have thought of it I was here today, gone tomorrow,

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<v Speaker 6>But I immediately just dropped, yes, gone tomorrow. I knew,

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<v Speaker 6>I knew. I didn't want that, And a bit I

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<v Speaker 6>wanted was this front pit.

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<v Speaker 4>What about the time we met? About the time, well,

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<v Speaker 4>I suppose that you could say that we were playing

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<v Speaker 4>hard again.

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<v Speaker 1>What about the time we met, Well, the first time

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<v Speaker 1>I ever.

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<v Speaker 6>Saw John Lennon, he got on the bus and was

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<v Speaker 6>John always managed to be a little bit older than me.

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<v Speaker 1>I never caught up.

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<v Speaker 6>So he was like this sort of slightly older guy

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<v Speaker 6>with a sort of rocker hardoo lots of grease, black jacket,

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<v Speaker 6>side burns, sideboards as we called them. Burns was American,

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<v Speaker 6>and you know, I just remember thinking, well, he's a

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<v Speaker 6>cool guy, no idea who he is.

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<v Speaker 4>Didn't understand the thing, but we could all say.

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<v Speaker 6>And what would happen is when I would talk to people,

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<v Speaker 6>they'd sort of say, what are your hobbies?

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<v Speaker 1>What do you like to do?

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<v Speaker 6>Inevitably I'd say, and I've written a couple of songs.

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<v Speaker 6>And they got out and we pass that by and

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<v Speaker 6>we carry on a conversation. When I met John, were

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<v Speaker 6>just chapping what I've written a couple of songs. He said,

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<v Speaker 6>I was so vi So that was like a full stop.

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<v Speaker 6>So then it was like, let me hear what you've

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<v Speaker 6>done and I'll tell you. I'll show you right to him.

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<v Speaker 6>So that started us getting together. I think I was

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<v Speaker 6>possibly the first person he'd met who had said that

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<v Speaker 6>to him, and so that was the start of our relationship.

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<v Speaker 6>We decided to get together normally at my house and

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<v Speaker 6>my dad always left his pipe in the draw, so

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<v Speaker 6>we would take tea, fill the pipe with it and

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<v Speaker 6>smoke it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was before tea became tea exactly pre tea.

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<v Speaker 4>If you ya.

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<v Speaker 6>He normally one of the other of us would have

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<v Speaker 6>a fragment, tune up, have a segy cup of tea,

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<v Speaker 6>start playing some stuff, look for an idea. Nearly all

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<v Speaker 6>of its two guitars, and joy of that was that

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<v Speaker 6>I was left handed, he was right handed, So I

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<v Speaker 6>was looking in a mirror and he was looking in

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<v Speaker 6>a mirror.

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<v Speaker 2>Just as their guitars mirrored each other, their personalities seemed

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<v Speaker 2>complimentary yin and yang. Jeff Emeriic, the head studio engineer

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<v Speaker 2>on several Beatles albums, observed that Paul was meticulous and organized.

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<v Speaker 2>John seemed to live in chaos. Paul was a natural communicator.

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<v Speaker 2>John couldn't artake get his idea as well. Paul was

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<v Speaker 2>the diplomat. John was the agitator.

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<v Speaker 6>That was one of the good things about writing with John.

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<v Speaker 6>He would often come in from another angle. So if

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<v Speaker 6>I'm doing a song, it's getting better all the time,

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<v Speaker 6>John might easily say it couldn't get no worse, which

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<v Speaker 6>immediately opens the song right up. Okay, And that was

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<v Speaker 6>one of the things I loved about working with him.

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<v Speaker 6>He could have said it's getting better all the time. Yes,

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<v Speaker 6>indeed it is right. If you read it.

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<v Speaker 2>The lyrics of here Today, imagine what Lennon might say

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<v Speaker 2>to McCartney if he were still alive. It's a practice

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<v Speaker 2>which informed much of Baurn McCartney's songwriting since the two

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<v Speaker 2>ended their musical collaboration. In the song, McCartney reckons with

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that since Lenon's passing, he has had to

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<v Speaker 2>spar with himself internalizing Lenon's creative opposition.

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<v Speaker 6>Now I'm conscious that I don't have him very much,

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<v Speaker 6>and you know, often we'll sort of refer what John

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<v Speaker 6>has said, this is too soppy, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you would have said no, no, no, So I'll

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<v Speaker 1>change it.

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<v Speaker 6>But my songs have to reflect me, and you don't

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<v Speaker 6>have this opposing element so much.

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<v Speaker 1>I have to do that myself these days, you know.

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<v Speaker 6>And you know, if anyone sort of asked me what

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<v Speaker 6>was he like to work with John, the fact was

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<v Speaker 6>it was easier, much easier, because there were two minds

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<v Speaker 6>at work, and that interplay was nothing short of miraculous.

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<v Speaker 2>While John Lennon's cynicism was often helpful in the songwriting

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<v Speaker 2>process with Baun McCartney, he could be quite harsh. He

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<v Speaker 2>had a very traumatic childhood, a distant father. There was

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<v Speaker 2>the early loss of his mother and his aunt's frequent

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<v Speaker 2>criticism and cruelty.

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<v Speaker 6>John's persona was very guarded. Yeah, hopelessly guarded. You know.

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<v Speaker 6>That was where all his wit came from. It was

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<v Speaker 6>like so many comedians, it's to shield themselves against the world,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, and John having had this very difficult upbringing

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<v Speaker 6>where his father ly Tom lys and then his uncle

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<v Speaker 6>dies and then his mother gets killed.

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<v Speaker 1>By the time I knew him, he could be very sarcastic,

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<v Speaker 1>but we all could.

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<v Speaker 6>I mean, it was my way of dealing with my

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<v Speaker 6>mother's death and his too.

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<v Speaker 1>So he would often they d funny I'll tell you

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<v Speaker 1>about you.

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<v Speaker 6>Know, there would often being a very witty put down.

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<v Speaker 6>Wouldn't always be a put down, but it would. It's

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<v Speaker 6>always a quick answer, and he trained himself to do that.

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<v Speaker 6>It was kind of obvious to and that was one

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<v Speaker 6>of the attractive things about him self.

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<v Speaker 1>Protective attack before we were attacked.

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<v Speaker 7>Well knowing you, he probably laugh and says that we

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<v Speaker 7>were world around.

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<v Speaker 5>Few to day.

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<v Speaker 6>I played to the sort of more cynical side of John.

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<v Speaker 1>It was certainly that. But whenever I sing this, I

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<v Speaker 1>do think.

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<v Speaker 6>It's probably not true. You probably laugh and say we

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<v Speaker 6>were world's apart.

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<v Speaker 2>This cynicism may seem particular to John Lennon, but it

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<v Speaker 2>was drilled into all young men of their generation as

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<v Speaker 2>part of some ideal of stoic masculinity.

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<v Speaker 6>Why can't men say I love you to each other?

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<v Speaker 6>I don't think he's quite as true now, but I

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<v Speaker 6>think certainly when we were growing up, you had to

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<v Speaker 6>be gay for a man to say that to another man.

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<v Speaker 6>So you know, that bred a little bit of cynicism.

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<v Speaker 6>If you ever were talking about anything soppy, then the

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<v Speaker 6>next thing would be someone would have to make a

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<v Speaker 6>joke of it, just to ease the embarrassment in the room.

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<v Speaker 2>And as boys couldn't admit their love for their friends,

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<v Speaker 2>they were also encouraged to hold back their tears.

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<v Speaker 1>Boys don't cry.

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<v Speaker 6>My dad wasn't like that, but that was the attitude

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<v Speaker 6>that you don't cry. Male people do not cry. Whereas

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<v Speaker 6>I think now it's acknowledged that it's a perfectly good

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<v Speaker 6>thing to do, And I say, well, you know, God

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<v Speaker 6>wouldn't have given us tears if he didn't mean us

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<v Speaker 6>to cry.

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<v Speaker 7>What about the night we cried?

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<v Speaker 9>Because there wasn't any reason. I have to keep it

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<v Speaker 9>on inside. Never still would you.

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<v Speaker 4>With a smile.

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<v Speaker 2>Even before the Beatles, Paul and John spent so much

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<v Speaker 2>time together that if they didn't acknowledge it in words,

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<v Speaker 2>their friendship had deepened. They grew closer and they came

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<v Speaker 2>to really know one another.

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<v Speaker 6>John and I hitchhiked a lot. It was the kind

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<v Speaker 6>of way to get a holiday. You never you didn't

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<v Speaker 6>book holidays. Maybe your parents did that, but we don't

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<v Speaker 6>think we would have known how to.

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<v Speaker 1>So you would do is you just.

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<v Speaker 6>Head out. We would always take our guitars and it

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<v Speaker 6>was always just two of us. And from Liverpool you

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<v Speaker 6>go south. You don't really think of hitchhiking north. The

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<v Speaker 6>beaches are south and John and I got down to

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<v Speaker 6>ride on the Isle of Wight.

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<v Speaker 1>Or why do you.

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<v Speaker 6>Where My cousin Betty Elizabeth and her husband Mike were

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<v Speaker 6>running a pub. They did that, They ran pubs.

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<v Speaker 2>Not only did McCartney's cousins Betty and Mike run a pub,

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<v Speaker 2>Mike was also an entertainment manager at Butland's. Butland's was

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<v Speaker 2>a chain of seaside resorts started by Billy Butlin in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen thirty seven.

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<v Speaker 10>Butlin's the big holiday where everyone enjoys everything at no

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<v Speaker 10>extra cost like the monorail.

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<v Speaker 2>As this ad makes clear, the point was to provide

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<v Speaker 2>affordable holidays for working class families.

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<v Speaker 10>A big holiday for everyone with everything to enjoy at

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<v Speaker 10>Butler's and remember no extra at the Bay.

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<v Speaker 6>They were very showers and their kids all are great

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<v Speaker 6>little family who went down there. And it was great

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<v Speaker 6>really because I was sort of showing John part of

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<v Speaker 6>my world. It was very cute because we were goet

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<v Speaker 6>of young guys then still teen teenagers. H we'd play

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<v Speaker 6>our guitars. They'd love to hear us play.

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<v Speaker 1>He was.

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<v Speaker 6>He was a very funny guy and musical. He'd been

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<v Speaker 6>in a sort of an a cappella singing group with

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<v Speaker 6>zoot suits calling the Jones Boys. And we listened to

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<v Speaker 6>them on the radio once once on the radio, and

0:16:30.784 --> 0:16:34.104
<v Speaker 6>we all whole family tuned in, you know, guy collected

0:16:34.144 --> 0:16:37.384
<v Speaker 6>clippings of them. It was very cute to now think

0:16:37.944 --> 0:16:41.144
<v Speaker 6>of me and John in a bed top and tail,

0:16:41.624 --> 0:16:45.304
<v Speaker 6>a little single bed top and tail, and Betty and

0:16:45.344 --> 0:16:50.064
<v Speaker 6>Mike coming in to talk us in. It was so sweet,

0:16:50.144 --> 0:16:58.824
<v Speaker 6>you know, it's so sort of innocent. Play it again, ring, stop,

0:16:58.984 --> 0:16:59.504
<v Speaker 6>that's not me.

0:17:01.744 --> 0:17:05.144
<v Speaker 4>What do your promise to be and help me.

0:17:08.184 --> 0:17:08.744
<v Speaker 1>I'm tired.

0:17:09.624 --> 0:17:13.904
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

0:17:13.904 --> 0:17:17.824
<v Speaker 2>Even when John would attack Paul, he find ways of

0:17:17.984 --> 0:17:21.904
<v Speaker 2>signaling to his friend, the softer part of himself that

0:17:22.024 --> 0:17:24.184
<v Speaker 2>lay underneath the hard shell.

0:17:24.824 --> 0:17:27.344
<v Speaker 6>I told you you were the classes all the time.

0:17:27.904 --> 0:17:32.104
<v Speaker 6>And we have we have an argument about something. I said, no, no, no,

0:17:32.104 --> 0:17:34.904
<v Speaker 6>no no, because I would have to stand up to

0:17:34.944 --> 0:17:40.784
<v Speaker 6>him because we're working together. And he'd say something but

0:17:41.104 --> 0:17:47.184
<v Speaker 6>particularly caustic. I'd be so wounded. And then he pulled

0:17:47.224 --> 0:17:50.904
<v Speaker 6>down his classes. He got it's only me, went back

0:17:51.664 --> 0:17:55.304
<v Speaker 6>and that was John. That to me, it was John,

0:17:55.344 --> 0:18:00.464
<v Speaker 6>It's only me. Oh all right, and you've just gone

0:18:00.464 --> 0:18:03.304
<v Speaker 6>and blustered and that was somebody else?

0:18:03.464 --> 0:18:03.704
<v Speaker 4>Was it?

0:18:04.264 --> 0:18:06.864
<v Speaker 1>Okay? And that was your shield talking.

0:18:08.824 --> 0:18:10.144
<v Speaker 4>I'm giving up the business.

0:18:13.744 --> 0:18:18.944
<v Speaker 1>We're doing it wrong. George is tuned up, tuning up.

0:18:19.504 --> 0:18:20.624
<v Speaker 1>I want to thieve.

0:18:24.024 --> 0:18:27.824
<v Speaker 2>As Paul came to recognize when John's shield was up,

0:18:28.304 --> 0:18:31.504
<v Speaker 2>and when it was done, he learned how to comfort him.

0:18:31.664 --> 0:18:34.624
<v Speaker 6>I remember him saying to me, oh, you know, I

0:18:34.784 --> 0:18:37.104
<v Speaker 6>worry about how people are going to remember me when

0:18:37.144 --> 0:18:42.064
<v Speaker 6>I die. And it kind of shocked me. I said, okay,

0:18:42.384 --> 0:18:46.584
<v Speaker 6>hold on, just hold it right there. People are going

0:18:46.624 --> 0:18:50.144
<v Speaker 6>to think you were great, You've already done enough work

0:18:51.304 --> 0:18:56.024
<v Speaker 6>to demonstrate that. So I was like I had to

0:18:56.144 --> 0:18:59.504
<v Speaker 6>I was like his priest often, you know, I'd have

0:18:59.584 --> 0:19:03.144
<v Speaker 6>to say, my son, you're great, don't worry about it,

0:19:03.264 --> 0:19:04.184
<v Speaker 6>you know whatever.

0:19:04.344 --> 0:19:06.824
<v Speaker 1>And he would take it and make him feel better.

0:19:07.264 --> 0:19:08.904
<v Speaker 7>What about the night we cry?

0:19:09.744 --> 0:19:13.344
<v Speaker 4>Because there was any reason to keep it on inside?

0:19:14.944 --> 0:19:17.704
<v Speaker 4>Never would you.

0:19:22.064 --> 0:19:25.624
<v Speaker 2>One stormy night in Key West, while the Beatles were

0:19:25.624 --> 0:19:28.864
<v Speaker 2>on tour shield dropped all together.

0:19:29.064 --> 0:19:31.544
<v Speaker 1>What about the night we cry? That was a specific

0:19:31.704 --> 0:19:33.864
<v Speaker 1>incident in Key West.

0:19:34.224 --> 0:19:37.024
<v Speaker 6>There was a hurricane coming in and we had to

0:19:37.104 --> 0:19:40.744
<v Speaker 6>lay low for a couple of days, and for some

0:19:40.824 --> 0:19:44.064
<v Speaker 6>reason they chose Key West, and so we were in

0:19:44.064 --> 0:19:46.024
<v Speaker 6>a little sort of motel room and stuff. So we

0:19:46.104 --> 0:19:53.824
<v Speaker 6>got very drunk and cried about, you know, I don't

0:19:53.864 --> 0:19:56.344
<v Speaker 6>know about how we loved each other or something.

0:19:56.384 --> 0:19:56.744
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:19:57.224 --> 0:20:04.064
<v Speaker 2>Writing here today, processing his friend's death, McCartney experienced a

0:20:04.224 --> 0:20:09.504
<v Speaker 2>similar emotional release. Once again, it was music the broke

0:20:09.584 --> 0:20:14.864
<v Speaker 2>down the barriers of masculinity, of violence, of the tragedy

0:20:15.144 --> 0:20:16.344
<v Speaker 2>of John's absence.

0:20:17.584 --> 0:20:23.984
<v Speaker 4>But as for me, I still remember it was before.

0:20:26.384 --> 0:20:28.584
<v Speaker 6>But as for me, I still remember how it was

0:20:28.624 --> 0:20:33.944
<v Speaker 6>before and I'm holding back the tears no more because

0:20:33.944 --> 0:20:37.664
<v Speaker 6>it was very moving, a very emotional writing this song,

0:20:38.024 --> 0:20:43.224
<v Speaker 6>because I was just sitting there saying this bare room,

0:20:43.264 --> 0:20:51.064
<v Speaker 6>thinking of John and realizing I'd lost him, and.

0:20:50.984 --> 0:20:55.344
<v Speaker 1>It was a powerful loss. So to have a.

0:20:55.264 --> 0:21:01.584
<v Speaker 6>Conversation with him in a song was some form of solace.

0:21:02.624 --> 0:21:06.184
<v Speaker 1>Somehow I was with him again. What about the night

0:21:06.264 --> 0:21:06.864
<v Speaker 1>we cried?

0:21:07.584 --> 0:21:10.544
<v Speaker 4>Because it was a learis do have to keep it on? This?

0:21:11.464 --> 0:21:13.544
<v Speaker 6>And people come to my shows and this is I

0:21:13.584 --> 0:21:16.344
<v Speaker 6>do this, just me and a guitar, and I'm all

0:21:16.384 --> 0:21:18.344
<v Speaker 6>stuck in the middle of a great, big arena with

0:21:18.464 --> 0:21:23.664
<v Speaker 6>all these people, and people tell me they look around,

0:21:23.704 --> 0:21:26.664
<v Speaker 6>there's a lot of people crying. And I think you

0:21:26.704 --> 0:21:33.504
<v Speaker 6>know because it is a very sentimental, nostalgic, emotional song.

0:21:38.624 --> 0:21:40.864
<v Speaker 4>For you were in my song.

0:21:49.784 --> 0:22:02.704
<v Speaker 2>Dude here Today from Tug of War, released in nineteen

0:22:02.744 --> 0:22:04.944
<v Speaker 2>eighty two.

0:22:05.184 --> 0:22:08.224
<v Speaker 4>When you Are in your Heart.

0:22:09.464 --> 0:22:10.784
<v Speaker 1>Was an open book.

0:22:11.064 --> 0:22:13.904
<v Speaker 2>In the next episode, you.

0:22:13.824 --> 0:22:17.424
<v Speaker 4>Used to say lilently.

0:22:17.344 --> 0:22:22.104
<v Speaker 2>McCartney's secret aspiration to write a Bond song.

0:22:22.344 --> 0:22:28.264
<v Speaker 9>The ever changing world in which we live in makes

0:22:28.344 --> 0:22:30.824
<v Speaker 9>you giving and crawn.

0:22:36.504 --> 0:22:40.544
<v Speaker 2>McCartney. A Life in Lyrics is a co production between

0:22:40.664 --> 0:22:44.784
<v Speaker 2>iHeartMedia NPL and Pushkin Industries